Author Interview: Dot Slash Magic by Liz Shipton

WEBVTT
00:00:04.020 --> 00:00:08.545
Hello and welcome to Fiction Fans, a podcast where we read books and other words too.
00:00:08.846 --> 00:00:09.465
I'm Lily.
00:00:09.721 --> 00:00:17.170
And I'm Sarah and I am so pleased to welcome author Liz Shipton onto the podcast to talk about her new book slash magic.
00:00:18.131 --> 00:00:18.580
Hi.
00:00:18.640 --> 00:00:19.960
Thanks so much for having me.
00:00:20.021 --> 00:00:20.710
I'm really excited to be here.
00:00:21.400 --> 00:00:21.821
Yeah, we're
00:00:22.015 --> 00:00:22.615
much for joining us.
00:00:23.175 --> 00:00:24.400
we're excited to have you.
00:00:24.400 --> 00:00:24.431
I.
00:00:25.431 --> 00:00:32.780
Before we get into book talk though, we do have a, a little five minute introduction starting with what's something great that happened recently.
00:00:32.930 --> 00:00:35.121
Liz, do you have an answer or should I pick on Sarah?
00:00:35.746 --> 00:00:36.646
Yeah, I do.
00:00:36.716 --> 00:00:40.085
So this week we it's called splashing.
00:00:40.085 --> 00:00:42.216
We splashed our boat back into the water.
00:00:42.225 --> 00:00:49.165
we live on a boat and it's been hauled out in a boat yard for the last like month while we do like projects on it.
00:00:49.165 --> 00:00:53.305
So we've been like painting the bottom and fixing a bunch of stuff and working on the motor.
00:00:53.615 --> 00:01:01.026
And yesterday the boat went back into the water and we are like moved back onto it and yeah, it feels really good to be.
00:01:01.390 --> 00:01:02.201
To be back.
00:01:02.901 --> 00:01:03.860
That's wonderful.
00:01:03.920 --> 00:01:04.760
Congratulations.
00:01:05.081 --> 00:01:05.230
Thanks.
00:01:06.215 --> 00:01:08.465
it's really cool that you live on a boat, I think.
00:01:08.465 --> 00:01:09.365
I think that's just neat.
00:01:10.115 --> 00:01:12.096
It's it's an interesting life for sure.
00:01:12.141 --> 00:01:12.430
Yeah.
00:01:13.430 --> 00:01:19.251
Well, we definitely have more questions about that, but we're gonna save that for the, the more relevant book conversation.
00:01:19.790 --> 00:01:20.570
Sarah, how about you?
00:01:20.570 --> 00:01:21.680
What's something great that happened
00:01:21.766 --> 00:01:29.281
Something great that happened recently is, so back in May, I adopted a third pug who is very traumatized by her first family.
00:01:30.021 --> 00:01:37.680
And, I have been working on getting her used to me touching her front paws so that I can like wipe them off and do things like that.
00:01:37.680 --> 00:01:40.260
And she now lets me, and I'm very pleased.
00:01:40.441 --> 00:01:40.980
Oh, good for
00:01:41.221 --> 00:01:42.180
Yay.
00:01:42.540 --> 00:01:43.921
That's a, that's a big step.
00:01:44.311 --> 00:01:45.421
Yes, yes.
00:01:45.421 --> 00:01:51.540
It, you know, when I first got her, she would try to bite me if I touched her front paws, so it lots of,
00:01:51.816 --> 00:01:52.156
sometimes.
00:01:52.771 --> 00:01:56.671
wouldn't, she didn't succeed in bit me when I was touching her paws.
00:01:57.421 --> 00:01:59.635
She just bites me at other times.
00:01:59.986 --> 00:02:00.926
That's a big caveat.
00:02:02.132 --> 00:02:09.032
tempted to say that my good thing is that we've managed to get this recording set up because listeners, there has been some technical difficulties.
00:02:10.032 --> 00:02:22.602
But other than that it's kind of silly, but our local kind of farmer's market thing has something that they call a dreamsicle melon, and it is the best melon I have ever had.
00:02:23.651 --> 00:02:24.912
It's a summer melon.
00:02:24.912 --> 00:02:26.111
The skin is really thin.
00:02:26.262 --> 00:02:31.032
I think it's technically a type of honeydew, but like so sweet and so tender.
00:02:31.342 --> 00:02:33.081
And I'm obsessed with these melons now.
00:02:34.081 --> 00:02:35.042
sounds delicious.
00:02:35.192 --> 00:02:36.451
It is like really good.
00:02:36.632 --> 00:02:38.731
I'm such a sucker for being upsold there.
00:02:39.211 --> 00:02:40.382
Whenever they're like, you wanna try this?
00:02:40.382 --> 00:02:41.192
I'm like, yes.
00:02:42.192 --> 00:02:43.391
It's never proven me wrong.
00:02:44.442 --> 00:02:46.451
So what is everyone drinking for this recording?
00:02:46.602 --> 00:02:48.222
I have coffee.
00:02:49.016 --> 00:02:50.667
It is kind of morning still.
00:02:51.667 --> 00:02:59.356
I actually don't have a drink in hand currently, however, if I was, it probably would be soda water with lime and bitters.
00:02:59.687 --> 00:03:04.097
That's kind of like my, my go-to drink, unless it's morning time and then it's coffee.
00:03:04.262 --> 00:03:04.592
Yeah.
00:03:05.592 --> 00:03:07.667
I am gonna have to try adding bitters to soda water.
00:03:07.667 --> 00:03:08.912
That's, that sounds really interesting.
00:03:09.331 --> 00:03:13.562
It is really good if you can get the ratio of bitters to lime Right.
00:03:13.622 --> 00:03:15.301
It's, it's so refreshing.
00:03:15.301 --> 00:03:17.611
And like if you drink it just so, so cold.
00:03:18.122 --> 00:03:18.662
Oh yeah.
00:03:18.692 --> 00:03:19.352
It's the best.
00:03:19.576 --> 00:03:21.437
Sounds perfect for a hot day.
00:03:21.662 --> 00:03:21.961
Yeah.
00:03:22.472 --> 00:03:24.901
I am currently drinking some green tea.
00:03:25.801 --> 00:03:26.252
Lovely.
00:03:27.252 --> 00:03:29.292
And this is actually a book podcast.
00:03:29.292 --> 00:03:36.132
So other than slash Magic, which we're about to discuss at quite a bit of length has anyone read anything good lately?
00:03:37.132 --> 00:03:47.331
I just finished Yellowface by RF Kwang, which I know is so old and I should have already read it a long time ago, but I didn't, and I just read it and it, I loved it.
00:03:47.741 --> 00:04:04.336
I, I probably shouldn't have read it the month before my first trad publishing launch It's like so in depth into like the publishing industry and like everything that can go wrong, and I'm just like now filled with anxiety about my book launch.
00:04:05.336 --> 00:04:05.776
it was great.
00:04:05.796 --> 00:04:06.227
It was a good book.
00:04:06.822 --> 00:04:08.921
Yeah, I've heard good things.
00:04:08.921 --> 00:04:13.961
I also haven't read it, so there's so many books and so many new ones come out every year.
00:04:13.961 --> 00:04:14.981
How can I keep up,
00:04:15.236 --> 00:04:18.807
it's, it's really rude of authors to keep writing books that I want to read.
00:04:19.151 --> 00:04:22.137
I, I just, it's, it's an personal attack.
00:04:23.137 --> 00:04:28.987
I really have just been like nose to the grindstone in DOT slash magic for the last week or so.
00:04:29.016 --> 00:04:31.447
So that's basically all I have going on in my head.
00:04:32.447 --> 00:04:32.747
Nice.
00:04:33.422 --> 00:04:46.622
I have gone back to the revised edition of Tolkien's Letters, but because of the nature of that, like I'll read a letter and then not read anything for like, you know, a week.
00:04:46.711 --> 00:04:48.211
So I read, I read one letter.
00:04:49.211 --> 00:04:49.841
And that counts.
00:04:50.351 --> 00:04:51.041
It does count.
00:04:52.041 --> 00:05:07.076
Well, we teased this a little bit at the beginning, but Liz, you live on a boat and our main character seven also well, does quite a bit of sailing and lives on a boat while she goes to community college near the beginning of this book.
00:05:07.887 --> 00:05:13.706
Can you tell us a little more about how, like your personal experience informed that aspect of her character?
00:05:14.706 --> 00:05:15.697
Yeah, definitely.
00:05:15.747 --> 00:05:22.857
I mean, all my main characters are, I sort of have this like running joke with my readers that all my main characters are just thinly veiled versions of me.
00:05:23.336 --> 00:05:26.247
And sometimes the veiling is very, very thin.
00:05:26.482 --> 00:05:36.052
So, yeah, seven moves on to her uncle's old sailboat that's kind of like rotting away in a harbor in San Diego that her parents have sort of been maintaining for him.
00:05:36.331 --> 00:05:42.812
And the mainly the reason she does this is that like San Diego and California in general, the housing market is very expensive.
00:05:42.812 --> 00:05:43.442
Like she
00:05:43.576 --> 00:05:44.867
It just sucks.
00:05:45.406 --> 00:05:47.747
I mean, I live in, I live in California, so.
00:05:48.747 --> 00:05:49.076
Right.
00:05:49.076 --> 00:05:52.346
And like, so that was sort of drawn a little bit from our life.
00:05:52.346 --> 00:05:54.372
'cause like, so my partner Trev and I.
00:05:55.372 --> 00:05:58.971
Both grew up primarily in California and in Santa Cruz, California.
00:05:59.002 --> 00:06:10.482
And part of what motivated us to buy the boat and pursue this life was the housing market in California was looking at, at, at the situation in Santa Cruz.
00:06:10.482 --> 00:06:14.081
Whereas this, I think it's literally the most expensive place in the United States.
00:06:14.081 --> 00:06:15.641
I just saw something recently.
00:06:15.692 --> 00:06:17.012
It's, it's just crazy.
00:06:17.012 --> 00:06:18.271
And it was like, yeah.
00:06:18.497 --> 00:06:26.357
You know, yes, maybe we could probably afford to buy a house there, you know, but to what end?
00:06:26.456 --> 00:06:33.536
And we felt like we would just be working for our mortgage and always struggling and always underwater, no pun intended.
00:06:33.927 --> 00:06:41.456
And so, you know, there were many, many factors that went into us deciding to move onto the boat and pursue this life, but that was one of them.
00:06:41.456 --> 00:06:41.576
Um.
00:06:42.043 --> 00:06:48.178
So, yeah, when it came time to write the book you know, that was, that was just like something I wanted to slip in there, I guess.
00:06:48.269 --> 00:06:48.408
Yeah.
00:06:49.439 --> 00:06:56.639
So does that mean that you also have some kind of coding background if, if seven has a lot of you in her?
00:06:57.389 --> 00:06:57.678
Yeah.
00:06:57.778 --> 00:07:03.863
So I, I also have a lot of theater and music background, so I grew up playing music and doing theater.
00:07:03.863 --> 00:07:06.673
I actually got my degree in theater from uc, San Diego.
00:07:06.954 --> 00:07:10.764
I also went to community college in Santa Cruz in my hometown.
00:07:10.764 --> 00:07:15.713
I went through the music program there and basically like throughout my.
00:07:16.298 --> 00:07:18.879
You know, twenties, I was a musician.
00:07:18.879 --> 00:07:23.048
I was teaching music privately to little kids mostly.
00:07:23.329 --> 00:07:26.119
And then I was gigging with a couple of like, cover bands.
00:07:26.119 --> 00:07:27.619
This was all in San Diego.
00:07:27.649 --> 00:07:31.899
And and I had a couple of my own bands, like a jazz funk, soul band, and a ska band.
00:07:31.899 --> 00:07:38.048
And I was doing that whole thing for, for a long time, probably like 10 years out of high school through college and through sort of the end of my twenties.
00:07:38.048 --> 00:07:41.108
And then I basically got to the end of my twenties and.
00:07:41.408 --> 00:07:51.548
Trav, my partner and I had decided we wanted to do this boat thing, at which point I was like, well, we're gonna need some money probably, and there isn't really any in music.
00:07:52.028 --> 00:08:00.468
So I taught, I started teaching myself to code and this was like around 2016, 2015, 2016.
00:08:00.829 --> 00:08:01.819
When like.
00:08:02.254 --> 00:08:10.024
There was a big push in the United States particularly to like, everyone's gonna code, like, you know, we can all code and that's the future.
00:08:10.024 --> 00:08:14.764
And, and they were really hiring engineers and they were pushing these like coding bootcamps.
00:08:15.423 --> 00:08:18.334
And so I kind of saw that and I was like, well, that's money.
00:08:18.423 --> 00:08:19.233
There's money there.
00:08:19.504 --> 00:08:20.254
I'll try that.
00:08:20.444 --> 00:08:24.793
So I taught myself to code enough to the point that I could get into a coding bootcamp.
00:08:24.793 --> 00:08:29.473
And then I went into a coding bootcamp in San Francisco called Hack Reactor, which was like.
00:08:30.059 --> 00:08:32.908
One of the most intense, gnarly experiences of my life.
00:08:32.908 --> 00:08:40.739
It was like three months of, I mean, like 16 hours a day, six days a week of just coding and like, your brain is on fire.
00:08:41.058 --> 00:08:44.658
And I think the first two weeks I was there, I don't think I really slept like at all.
00:08:45.099 --> 00:08:49.958
And I was crashing on my friend's couch in Oakland at the time, who's also a, a musician.
00:08:49.958 --> 00:08:50.979
He's like a punk guy.
00:08:51.389 --> 00:08:54.239
And yeah, just, I mean, it's a, it's a blur, you know.
00:08:55.239 --> 00:08:55.869
But it worked.
00:08:55.869 --> 00:09:00.999
I, I came through that program and I got out on the other side and I was hired by a startup at Silicon Valley.
00:09:00.999 --> 00:09:07.969
I worked there for a few years, and then I ended up working a friend of mine quit that company to start her own company, a startup in Silicon Valley.
00:09:07.969 --> 00:09:10.068
And I was actually the first engineer that she hired.
00:09:10.408 --> 00:09:13.078
For better or worse I was not an amazing engineer.
00:09:13.078 --> 00:09:15.688
Like that's, I wanna make that very clear.
00:09:15.999 --> 00:09:16.568
I was fine.
00:09:16.778 --> 00:09:21.969
You know, I, I feel like I spent five years tricking Silicon Valley into paying me, you know.
00:09:22.384 --> 00:09:24.033
Or is that just imposter syndrome?
00:09:24.124 --> 00:09:24.663
I don't know.
00:09:25.254 --> 00:09:28.073
But yeah, so that's, that's kind of my, my coding background.
00:09:28.793 --> 00:09:32.048
And that's where a lot of that stuff in the book was, was pulled from.
00:09:33.048 --> 00:09:34.764
And so I actually.
00:09:35.186 --> 00:09:41.035
Have a couple of follow up questions for both you and Sarah, because my coding background is zero.
00:09:41.436 --> 00:09:43.265
Like absolutely nothing.
00:09:44.265 --> 00:09:46.696
However, this book was still really accessible.
00:09:46.701 --> 00:09:59.535
The, the coding that we see in the story that our main character is doing is all, like, pretty well explained or, or telegraphed in a way that I didn't need to know what was going on in order to follow it.
00:10:00.056 --> 00:10:00.326
To hear.
00:10:01.150 --> 00:10:05.770
Sarah on the other hand, has much more experience than I do, and I'm so curious how that changes
00:10:05.850 --> 00:10:06.270
Oh, no.
00:10:06.270 --> 00:10:07.671
Now you're gonna tell me all the ways in which
00:10:07.780 --> 00:10:08.171
No,
00:10:08.216 --> 00:10:09.206
no, no, no, no, no, no.
00:10:09.806 --> 00:10:10.466
Not at all.
00:10:10.525 --> 00:10:17.155
But, but I'm currently working as a software engineer, so it was fun to, to like see these little bits of, of code.
00:10:17.155 --> 00:10:22.076
I was like, oh, this is an intersection of my interests that don't necessarily intersect all that often.
00:10:22.466 --> 00:10:22.586
Great.
00:10:22.655 --> 00:10:23.466
Yeah, I, I.
00:10:24.291 --> 00:10:33.291
I definitely, I wanted to put in some, well, you're, you're a pro, you are a coder, you know, that like, we really love to like, hide Easter eggs in things.
00:10:33.380 --> 00:10:35.331
I feel like that's like a coding thing
00:10:35.510 --> 00:10:36.051
Yes.
00:10:36.441 --> 00:10:36.711
do.
00:10:36.711 --> 00:10:44.390
And so I wanted there to be a few little, like, bits like that for coders where if you're a coder, you go, ha, I, I, I know that.
00:10:44.390 --> 00:10:45.110
Or, you know, like,
00:10:45.140 --> 00:10:45.201
Yeah.
00:10:45.380 --> 00:10:46.520
like I see that.
00:10:47.301 --> 00:10:50.301
And like you, I don't, I, I think I'm middle of the road.
00:10:50.630 --> 00:10:53.421
My company seems to be happy and they, they pay me well.
00:10:53.421 --> 00:10:54.980
So that's all that matters.
00:10:54.980 --> 00:10:57.301
But but yeah, I was like, oh, I know this thing.
00:10:58.301 --> 00:10:58.900
oh, that's awesome.
00:10:58.990 --> 00:10:59.500
That's great.
00:11:00.490 --> 00:11:03.750
And then I'm over here going, Ooh, a dragon in asci,
00:11:03.770 --> 00:11:04.221
Yes.
00:11:04.730 --> 00:11:07.910
Which a reader asked me, actually, they were like, did you make that?
00:11:08.061 --> 00:11:09.110
And I was like, yeah.
00:11:09.350 --> 00:11:12.711
Meaning yes, I used it online like thing to create it for me.
00:11:12.711 --> 00:11:15.140
But she was like, wow, you, how long did that take?
00:11:15.140 --> 00:11:16.230
I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no.
00:11:16.230 --> 00:11:16.821
I did not.
00:11:17.270 --> 00:11:22.015
Spend hours placing every little.to create that picture.
00:11:23.015 --> 00:11:31.625
It was really cool though because, well, as the title of the book might suggest, dear listener, there is magic not just coding in this story.
00:11:31.721 --> 00:11:40.181
And it was really fun seeing that combination in a way that, I don't know, I, I really love that sort of two, what feels like very desperate things.
00:11:40.681 --> 00:11:42.870
Disparate things being combined.
00:11:42.900 --> 00:11:43.775
It was, it was neat.
00:11:44.775 --> 00:11:47.072
Yeah, I, I like that blending as well.
00:11:47.621 --> 00:11:55.211
In the last series I wrote, which was like a dystopian water world series, there's tech, there's a lot of tech stuff in that as well.
00:11:55.211 --> 00:12:02.802
It's not, there's no like coding or anything, and it doesn't really get into the tech, but it's more like the world is governed by this like evil tech corporation.
00:12:03.072 --> 00:12:05.148
And in water world you are from California.
00:12:06.673 --> 00:12:06.822
Yeah.
00:12:07.822 --> 00:12:24.173
There's no magic in that series, but like I sort of made the tech feel a little bit like magic and so I think I kind of just like, I mean like I come, you know, somewhat from the tech world, so I think it's sort of like inevitably going to end up being a part of whatever I do.
00:12:24.217 --> 00:12:24.508
Yeah.
00:12:25.312 --> 00:12:25.552
Yeah.
00:12:26.153 --> 00:12:32.227
Well, so then in your personal opinion, do you consider this book fantasy sci-fi?
00:12:32.528 --> 00:12:37.597
Like what I, I know genre is very personal for everybody, so like, no wrong answer, but
00:12:38.597 --> 00:12:40.697
What I've been saying is urban fantasy.
00:12:41.097 --> 00:12:44.128
I think that's probably the closest you know that it is.
00:12:44.437 --> 00:12:50.817
Everything I write ends up being dystopian at least a little bit because probably just'cause I'm a pessimist at heart.
00:12:51.317 --> 00:12:52.758
And I live on a boat, like, what are you gonna do?
00:12:53.967 --> 00:12:55.227
out here, off grid.
00:12:55.467 --> 00:12:58.918
So there's definitely dystopian elements in the book.
00:12:59.268 --> 00:13:04.067
I like to say cyberpunk because it sounds cool, but I don't actually know if the book is cyberpunk.
00:13:04.138 --> 00:13:06.148
It's probably more fantasy than cyberpunk.
00:13:06.552 --> 00:13:09.163
I would personally put it more fantasy than cyberpunk.
00:13:09.462 --> 00:13:12.493
Yeah, I, I think urban fantasy for me feels right.
00:13:12.658 --> 00:13:13.077
Mm-hmm.
00:13:14.077 --> 00:13:19.187
I was, all up on my, you know how every reader has their own like weird personal shit they bring to a book?
00:13:19.488 --> 00:13:21.437
I can't stand overbearing parents.
00:13:21.827 --> 00:13:28.337
And so we, we start this book and seven is having a phone conversation with her mother who is kind of.
00:13:28.952 --> 00:13:31.533
Giving her what for about her life choices.
00:13:31.893 --> 00:13:38.263
And I was so ready to be so mad until it's revealed that all of this was about a boy.
00:13:38.293 --> 00:13:39.852
And then I was like, oh, okay, mom.
00:13:39.913 --> 00:13:40.182
Yeah.
00:13:40.212 --> 00:13:40.962
Kick her in the ass.
00:13:40.962 --> 00:13:41.413
She needs it.
00:13:42.413 --> 00:13:42.743
Yeah.
00:13:43.013 --> 00:13:43.283
Yeah.
00:13:43.783 --> 00:13:46.722
So I mean, again, Finley veiled versions of me.
00:13:46.952 --> 00:13:50.673
My mom is an absolutely wonderful, amazing, incredible human being.
00:13:50.783 --> 00:13:58.822
So I wouldn't say that the character of Mom is, you know, I think every mother and daughter relationship is going to have a little bit of that.
00:13:59.342 --> 00:14:07.263
I think, and I will say I'm like so nervous for my mom to read the book because like the character of Mom doesn't come across.
00:14:07.283 --> 00:14:16.523
Super great in chapter one, but later I feel like she really comes back strong and like mom and seven have a really great moment.
00:14:16.523 --> 00:14:26.403
And like, then we also peel back a little bit of like mom's layers and so not that my mom would ever DNF my book, but like, I wanna be like, mom, keep reading.
00:14:26.403 --> 00:14:27.783
Just get past chapter one.
00:14:27.783 --> 00:14:28.773
It's not you, I swear.
00:14:28.773 --> 00:14:29.043
Like,
00:14:31.312 --> 00:14:35.423
Oh, actually, it's definitely a spoiler conversation, but.
00:14:36.423 --> 00:14:42.543
There are, there are some things introduced at the beginning of this book that you flip quite dramatically, and I'm so curious.
00:14:42.663 --> 00:14:43.773
I shouldn't have even brought it up.
00:14:43.773 --> 00:14:43.832
I
00:14:43.847 --> 00:14:44.717
you sh nope.
00:14:44.778 --> 00:14:44.898
you
00:14:45.003 --> 00:14:45.962
I cannot ask yet.
00:14:46.962 --> 00:14:49.513
We have to save that conversation for the spoiler section.
00:14:50.493 --> 00:14:53.702
So this book does have some spicy sex scenes in, in it.
00:14:54.092 --> 00:15:02.888
And you mentioned in the beginning that if someone who has purchased the book wants to read it without the sex scenes, you have a, like a sanitized version, has anyone ever taken you up on that offer?
00:15:03.888 --> 00:15:16.967
So for as far as this book as it hasn't been launched, I don't know how popular that will be, but so for my previous series, the Scholastic series, the Dystopian Water World one, I offer two versions of the series.
00:15:16.967 --> 00:15:18.048
So there's two complete.
00:15:18.378 --> 00:15:19.217
Separate versions.
00:15:19.217 --> 00:15:23.868
There's a YA edition and then there's an NA edition and the ya is No Spice.
00:15:23.868 --> 00:15:25.187
The characters are like 17.
00:15:25.488 --> 00:15:30.437
And then the NA edition is, they're aged up by a few years and there's spicy scenes in it.
00:15:30.668 --> 00:15:34.038
And the, the spicy version is a thousand times more popular like.
00:15:35.038 --> 00:15:39.207
cause mostly I market on book talk and that's like most people on book talk want that.
00:15:39.307 --> 00:15:40.717
Which is why I wrote it.
00:15:41.107 --> 00:15:53.528
But people do, I have for, for a long time I was running two versions of my mailing list where I had like a, a spicy mailing list and a ya mailing list and I would send out two slightly altered versions of the same email every month.
00:15:53.908 --> 00:15:56.248
At this point that's gotten a little bit hard to manage.
00:15:56.248 --> 00:16:01.153
I don't recommend writing two completely separate versions of your series because like it wasn't.
00:16:01.873 --> 00:16:10.432
It wasn't the writing that was hard because really all I did was added the spicy scenes into the to the new adult version of the series.
00:16:10.883 --> 00:16:12.682
But all the covers.
00:16:13.013 --> 00:16:30.863
And anytime you wanna make a change in any of the books, especially because the series is nine books long, so it's actually 18 books that if I ever wanna like change the front matter or upload a different version to Amazon, it just becomes a nightmare of like, I gotta upload 18 versions of this thing now.
00:16:31.472 --> 00:16:33.177
So yeah, don't do what, don't do what I do.
00:16:33.432 --> 00:16:38.743
I do like having the two versions though because, so for me, I actually pref, I'm actually kind of a no spice reader.
00:16:39.023 --> 00:16:39.258
When I first.
00:16:39.613 --> 00:16:53.232
Started writing, I intended for the Philas series to be a YA series and it wasn't until I got corrupted by book talk that I decided to write the, the spicy versions.
00:16:53.413 --> 00:17:00.673
So for me, like having that other version is important and I don't think the book is like lacking for it.
00:17:00.883 --> 00:17:01.423
Do you know what I mean?
00:17:01.423 --> 00:17:05.472
Like you can read the book without that and you can like fade to black or whatever.
00:17:05.472 --> 00:17:06.103
And I think there's.
00:17:06.472 --> 00:17:07.313
In DOT slash magic.
00:17:07.313 --> 00:17:20.032
There's one thing, one small detail that you won't get in if you read the, the no spice version, but it's, it doesn't, it's not crucially, crucially important to like any of the plot twists or anything.
00:17:21.032 --> 00:17:23.073
But yeah, I, I like having those versions.
00:17:23.073 --> 00:17:24.063
We'll, we'll see.
00:17:24.153 --> 00:17:26.893
Time will tell how popular the, the no spice version is.
00:17:27.708 --> 00:17:28.597
That's interesting.
00:17:28.837 --> 00:17:32.917
I, I feel like reading a book is so easy to self-censor.
00:17:33.008 --> 00:17:36.307
'cause you can kind of just skim if you get to a part that you're not into.
00:17:36.458 --> 00:17:40.417
And I guess even skimming a spicy scene is interacting with it more.
00:17:40.688 --> 00:17:44.077
But like, if there's, it's different with a movie, right?
00:17:44.077 --> 00:17:51.968
Like you can't skip forward or it's much more difficult to but books like you can kind of go, oh, a torture scene, not feeling it right now.
00:17:51.998 --> 00:17:53.363
You know, like, let's just get to the end of that.
00:17:53.913 --> 00:17:58.863
Which is like one of the really, I would say great things about reading over other media.
00:17:59.313 --> 00:18:00.002
Yeah, that's true.
00:18:00.002 --> 00:18:00.573
I dunno.
00:18:00.573 --> 00:18:06.093
See, I think I'm maybe a kind of person that just the, the thought of skipping something.
00:18:06.647 --> 00:18:07.728
Just wouldn't occur to me.
00:18:07.847 --> 00:18:11.298
I think I would just read, even if I was like, oh God, this is so brutal.
00:18:11.298 --> 00:18:14.627
I can't, but like, that's the point of the book, right?
00:18:14.627 --> 00:18:16.008
Like, I don't know.
00:18:16.008 --> 00:18:21.377
I, for me, I just don't think it would even enter my mind that like, oh, you could skip this part for me.
00:18:21.377 --> 00:18:23.627
It would be like, Nope, you gotta, this is what it's about.
00:18:24.377 --> 00:18:25.218
You gotta, you gotta do it.
00:18:25.278 --> 00:18:26.117
Like get through it.
00:18:27.117 --> 00:18:37.978
I, I think going back to what you said about there being one scene in one of the sex scenes, that's, and I'm gonna kind of talk around it a little bit because it is a bit of a spoiler.
00:18:37.978 --> 00:18:56.175
But it does, it's interesting to me how not having that does kind of change or I, I would imagine it would kind of change the reveal of that aspect that that happens later on.
00:18:56.546 --> 00:18:57.715
So it's, it's interesting.
00:18:57.776 --> 00:19:01.976
I feel like it's, it would be interesting navigating those two different versions.
00:19:02.695 --> 00:19:03.895
Yeah, I think so.
00:19:03.895 --> 00:19:09.326
It's definitely like, I actually think I was talking about something slightly different than you were talking about.
00:19:09.415 --> 00:19:11.006
There's so many reveals that happen
00:19:11.020 --> 00:19:11.895
there's, there's, yes.
00:19:12.895 --> 00:19:14.605
There's like plot twist, some plot twist.
00:19:14.935 --> 00:19:15.175
So.
00:19:16.105 --> 00:19:16.556
Yes.
00:19:16.556 --> 00:19:25.310
I think what, for what you're talking about, I think the impact is certainly lessened by the removal of those scenes and, and particularly for like.
00:19:26.310 --> 00:19:36.901
The way that that reveal is done, where it's literally like we hear echoes of things that he has literally said, you, they don't all get said in the, in the no spice version.
00:19:36.901 --> 00:19:40.080
So it's just not, it's definitely not gonna hit quite as hard.
00:19:40.500 --> 00:19:47.641
But I think having had like faith to black and having like, you're still referencing sex, it's still like, oh yeah, we know these characters have had sex.
00:19:47.641 --> 00:19:55.020
Like, and certain, certain things in the book are still kind of, are left in, so I think you're correct.
00:19:55.020 --> 00:20:00.570
Like it's, it's not gonna be as impactful, but you'll still get the reveal, if that makes sense.
00:20:01.276 --> 00:20:01.576
Yeah.
00:20:02.576 --> 00:20:08.445
Well, I think we have to get to the spoiler section because we're dancing pretty hard around it here.
00:20:08.520 --> 00:20:14.911
are, there are, there are just, oh, there are so many reveals at the end of this book that I just, that I wanna talk about.
00:20:15.121 --> 00:20:15.905
It's almost too many.
00:20:16.425 --> 00:20:16.786
Yeah.
00:20:17.786 --> 00:20:22.486
So before we, we do get to that Sarah, who should read this book?
00:20:23.056 --> 00:20:32.306
You should read this book if you are a millennial who likes technology and magic and magical technology and also sex scenes where the dude uses magic to make his dick bigger.
00:20:33.306 --> 00:20:38.096
But you don't have to read that if you don't want to because there is this San Sanitized version.
00:20:38.506 --> 00:20:40.711
But if that is you, this would be a great book for you.
00:20:40.965 --> 00:20:41.476
Yes.
00:20:42.086 --> 00:20:44.280
I, I am the trash romance reader who's like.
00:20:45.226 --> 00:20:47.266
Give, give it, give me all the sex scenes.
00:20:48.266 --> 00:20:49.615
So I appreciated it.
00:20:53.835 --> 00:20:57.275
This episode of Fiction Fans is brought to you by Fiction Fans.
00:20:57.713 --> 00:21:04.344
That's us! We really appreciate our patrons, because otherwise we fund this podcast entirely ourselves.
00:21:04.673 --> 00:21:11.732
Patrons can find weekly bonus content, monthly exclusive episodes, and they have free access to our biannual zine, Solstitia.
00:21:12.020 --> 00:21:14.661
You can find all of that and more at patreon.
00:21:14.691 --> 00:21:16.661
com slash fictionfanspod.
00:21:16.971 --> 00:21:18.320
Thank you for all of your support.
00:21:18.931 --> 00:21:21.730
The remainder of this episode contains spoilers.
00:21:25.911 --> 00:21:28.830
So you mentioned that there were a lot of reveals.
00:21:28.830 --> 00:21:30.151
There are a lot of reveals.
00:21:30.369 --> 00:21:44.150
I was reading this book and I had to put it down right at the moment where seven realizes that dot her magical AI that she has created actually was the behind the the monsters coming.
00:21:44.779 --> 00:21:48.589
And I was like, oh man, this is the worst place to put it down.
00:21:48.619 --> 00:21:48.920
Like.
00:21:49.565 --> 00:21:52.234
Because I think my, my pasta water was boiling or something.
00:21:52.734 --> 00:21:54.865
I was like, this is the worst place to put it down.
00:21:55.075 --> 00:22:04.045
And then I made pasta and, and came back to the book and kept reading and there were more reveals and I was like, oh, thank God I didn't have to put it down at this point.
00:22:05.045 --> 00:22:18.545
You're like, oh no, and then you realize that it's actually just like the top of the rollercoaster hill and that actually what's about to happen is we're gonna just spend like six chapters just careening through like plot twists.
00:22:19.115 --> 00:22:19.474
Yeah.
00:22:20.164 --> 00:22:25.204
Yeah, I think I, I blew through the last, like, 200 pages of this book in one evening.
00:22:25.204 --> 00:22:27.755
'cause I was like, I can't, there's, there's so much going on.
00:22:27.755 --> 00:22:28.835
I can't put this down.
00:22:29.809 --> 00:22:31.579
Well that's, I hope that's a good thing.
00:22:32.055 --> 00:22:34.220
I don't like, I honestly dunno.
00:22:34.630 --> 00:22:45.190
I feel like writing this book, I got to a point where I was like, this is either awesome or this is just like the semi coherent ramblings of a person, slowly losing her mind.
00:22:45.190 --> 00:22:47.289
And I don't know which it is yet.
00:22:47.349 --> 00:22:49.509
I guess we'll find out when people read it.
00:22:50.509 --> 00:22:51.980
But you dropped hints though.
00:22:51.980 --> 00:22:58.384
Like we got little references to the matrix from almost the very beginning, so that felt like.
00:22:58.906 --> 00:23:04.636
I did not see it coming in any sense of the word, but I didn't feel like, where the hell did this come from?
00:23:04.696 --> 00:23:05.267
When it did
00:23:05.761 --> 00:23:06.092
Right.
00:23:06.092 --> 00:23:19.642
So I mean, I, so you know, the, so the literary device that you know is used is basically like a d SX Macina where she dies and then we wind, wind up in the matrix basically, or I'm
00:23:19.801 --> 00:23:20.977
Or out of the matrix.
00:23:21.977 --> 00:23:24.557
And so I kind of like using that.
00:23:24.557 --> 00:23:38.376
I know that there's a sort of feeling about it, that it can be a cheap trick or like an easy way out or like, oh, and then she woke up from the dream and everything was fine, and I really, really didn't want it to be that because, you know, obviously that's really stupid.
00:23:38.376 --> 00:23:41.557
And also people would've just ripped me to pieces for it.
00:23:41.977 --> 00:23:47.916
So, you know, there had to be a lot of threads that connected both sides together.
00:23:48.467 --> 00:23:58.787
And I wanted it to be a little bit like, like if you, if you go back and read this book for a second time, I want you to write from the jump, be like, oh.
00:23:59.787 --> 00:24:04.047
I didn't notice that before, but now I know that this is going to right.
00:24:04.047 --> 00:24:11.906
Like so I kind of wanted it to be the kind of book that you could potentially read for a second time and still kind of be getting stuff out of it, if that makes sense.
00:24:12.372 --> 00:24:13.241
Yeah, absolutely.
00:24:13.241 --> 00:24:18.731
And I mean, even though yes, there is a little bit of that aspect of it was all a dream.
00:24:18.932 --> 00:24:25.912
A as she comes out of the, the ai there's still impact there because her choices like make a difference.
00:24:25.912 --> 00:24:26.602
They matter.
00:24:26.912 --> 00:24:28.741
And like there are consequences.
00:24:28.741 --> 00:24:31.352
Alicia's super mad at seven.
00:24:31.662 --> 00:24:40.721
Because seven has had this time to process and start to view Alicia as a friend and Alicia's like, girl, you didn't care about me at all when, when we were in this ai.
00:24:41.251 --> 00:24:44.162
And like Kurt doesn't have his memories, that was heart wrenching.
00:24:44.672 --> 00:24:44.791
Oh, good.
00:24:45.557 --> 00:24:46.426
I was like, how could you do this?
00:24:47.426 --> 00:24:52.737
Because that way in book two, I can have them fall in love all over again from the very beginning.
00:24:53.336 --> 00:24:56.757
Ooh, you, so you answered that question before we had a chance to ask it.
00:24:57.757 --> 00:24:58.116
Sorry.
00:24:58.116 --> 00:25:01.146
Spoiler alert, I'm hoping, I'm hoping to do a book two.
00:25:01.386 --> 00:25:01.807
yeah.
00:25:01.836 --> 00:25:05.497
It felt, it felt both like this was a fully complete story.
00:25:05.497 --> 00:25:09.366
Like I didn't end it going really a fucking cliffhanger.
00:25:09.487 --> 00:25:09.876
Great.
00:25:10.116 --> 00:25:11.196
You know, there was none of that.
00:25:11.527 --> 00:25:13.207
But I was definitely like.
00:25:14.207 --> 00:25:15.142
But then what happens?
00:25:16.142 --> 00:25:16.531
cool.
00:25:16.531 --> 00:25:16.892
Great.
00:25:16.892 --> 00:25:17.432
That's good.
00:25:17.432 --> 00:25:21.182
I'm, because I, you know, a lot of my books have sort of ended on cliffhangers.
00:25:21.182 --> 00:25:23.882
Almost every book in the classic series is basically a cliffhanger.
00:25:24.251 --> 00:25:31.662
And so I wanted to not do that, but, but I do definitely have a lot of ideas for a book two and a book three.
00:25:32.001 --> 00:25:34.852
And so yeah, I'm hoping, I'm hoping to continue the series.
00:25:35.852 --> 00:25:36.602
Fingers crossed.
00:25:36.656 --> 00:25:36.946
Yeah.
00:25:37.172 --> 00:25:37.832
Yes.
00:25:38.041 --> 00:25:38.221
Yeah.
00:25:39.467 --> 00:25:44.477
This book starts with seven defending AI extensively.
00:25:44.477 --> 00:25:48.586
We get several lectures from her professors about the ethical use of ai.
00:25:49.156 --> 00:25:52.277
This is a very unusual stance for art communities to take.
00:25:52.666 --> 00:25:55.186
Has, well, I guess there haven't been a ton of readers yet.
00:25:55.186 --> 00:25:58.707
It's not out yet that this is my DNF question.
00:25:58.826 --> 00:26:03.382
If someone hasn't read the end where you flip that completely around.
00:26:03.896 --> 00:26:07.112
I have, have you had any reactions to that at all yet?
00:26:07.132 --> 00:26:07.511
Or is
00:26:07.551 --> 00:26:08.511
I haven't yet.
00:26:08.602 --> 00:26:15.711
I do have this sort of like existential dread that my fear is that someone is going to think that I used AI to write the book.
00:26:16.132 --> 00:26:26.061
That's the like backlash that I'm fearing that some uninformed person who hasn't actually read it, it's gonna have some like hot take, which I, I don't know.
00:26:26.686 --> 00:26:28.942
I, I hope that doesn't happen, but we'll see.
00:26:29.422 --> 00:26:30.862
But yeah, I mean, I don't know.
00:26:30.862 --> 00:26:41.192
I know that Caroline, I think you guys know Caroline from Angry Robot said that her partner, husband, whoever read it, and that the whole time he was kind of going like.
00:26:41.491 --> 00:26:42.781
But what about the ai?
00:26:42.781 --> 00:26:45.991
Like you're not talking about AI really, you're not saying anything.
00:26:46.051 --> 00:26:54.061
And then at the end like that, those last like three chapters made him basically be like, oh yeah, nevermind.
00:26:54.061 --> 00:26:56.642
This book was great and I loved it so much.
00:26:57.001 --> 00:26:58.082
So yeah, you're totally right.
00:26:58.082 --> 00:26:59.852
There could be issues with people.
00:26:59.852 --> 00:27:01.862
DN fing it, but like I'll just defend it.
00:27:02.257 --> 00:27:11.106
I'll just defend the book on on like if you DNF the book and you're gonna come and have some opinion like, no, sorry, you D nfd it, you don't actually know.
00:27:11.196 --> 00:27:15.457
And I will get on TikTok and I will defend it to the very end.
00:27:16.382 --> 00:27:16.471
I
00:27:16.507 --> 00:27:17.916
really all I can do, you know.
00:27:17.971 --> 00:27:18.392
Yeah.
00:27:18.662 --> 00:27:26.612
like you do, like, like you said, those last couple of chapters come down hard on it, so like There is a statement being made there.
00:27:26.612 --> 00:27:34.142
It's, it's just not one that seven is making because seven, or at least not in the beginning, because seven is, you know, a character, not, not the author.
00:27:34.501 --> 00:27:34.741
Yeah.
00:27:34.741 --> 00:27:36.497
So to be completely honest seven's.
00:27:37.426 --> 00:27:43.906
I think by the end seven probably is sort of seeing that and, and in book two we'll probably dig into that a lot more.
00:27:43.906 --> 00:28:01.183
But a lot of the reason that I started out with seven being pro AI was because I kind of like to be a little bit of a devil's advocate and like a little bit contrarian and seeing so much pushback against AI from like author communities on book talk and, and things like that.
00:28:01.604 --> 00:28:03.854
I was just sort of tired of seeing it.
00:28:03.953 --> 00:28:05.513
I was like, okay, yeah, we've all heard this.
00:28:05.513 --> 00:28:08.124
Take AI is bad, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
00:28:08.364 --> 00:28:13.223
So I actually wanted to write a book that was like pro AI just to be an asshole.
00:28:13.324 --> 00:28:14.644
I'm really glad I didn't.
00:28:15.334 --> 00:28:23.463
But then like as I was researching for the book, so I read a book called The Atlas of AI by, oh God, I'm forgetting the name of the author, but it's in the back of the book.
00:28:23.523 --> 00:28:24.844
There's a reading list in the back.
00:28:25.237 --> 00:28:26.886
And that book is, is listed there.
00:28:27.196 --> 00:28:36.646
And as I was reading that book, basically about just how extractive it is and how exploitative and really learning like.
00:28:37.172 --> 00:28:39.031
Basically just learning about it more.
00:28:39.451 --> 00:28:46.442
I kind of realized like, nah, you know, writing a, writing a pro AI book doesn't actually really sound like all that much fun.
00:28:47.051 --> 00:28:51.731
And I think my own opinions on it were shaped during the writing of the book.
00:28:51.761 --> 00:28:54.701
So that like by the end I was like, yeah, this is pretty bad.
00:28:54.761 --> 00:28:56.261
And I should probably say that.
00:28:57.261 --> 00:29:08.537
Well, it's interesting too when, when Sarah and I were putting notes together for this, it's so hard to have a, like, coherent conversation because everyone calls everything AI now, you know?
00:29:08.537 --> 00:29:13.547
And, and your book does a really good job of, we're talking about large language models, we're talking about generative ai.
00:29:14.132 --> 00:29:20.731
When everything from like machine learning to spell check is called ai.
00:29:21.271 --> 00:29:25.922
It's just really hard to actually have a coherent conversation.
00:29:26.102 --> 00:29:29.402
And part of my tinfoil hat is like, is that on purpose?
00:29:29.402 --> 00:29:34.682
Are they like muddying the phrase so that it's hard to come on with a stance either way, I don't know.
00:29:34.771 --> 00:29:35.071
But
00:29:35.656 --> 00:29:47.446
Yeah, because I mean, if you think about like, you know, the, the other applications of AI in terms of like it working on a cure for cancer and there are so many good things that it could be used for.
00:29:47.846 --> 00:29:53.696
And I, you know, I guess that's sort of the point that I'm making in the book is like, it's not really about we need to shut it down or whatever.
00:29:53.696 --> 00:29:57.326
It's more about like we need to regulate it and we need the right people in charge of it.
00:29:57.326 --> 00:30:04.501
And, yeah, because you're right, it is, it's sort of difficult to take a stance when the companies that are currently in charge of it.
00:30:04.501 --> 00:30:06.241
It's not, it's not the technology, right.
00:30:06.241 --> 00:30:09.182
It's the people behind the technology that are the, the problem.
00:30:09.616 --> 00:30:13.517
Yeah, and you can't even talk about like, well, okay, then how do you do it?
00:30:13.517 --> 00:30:13.906
Right?
00:30:13.936 --> 00:30:16.007
Because it's just so the whole
00:30:16.142 --> 00:30:20.882
And a lot of what is, a lot of what is like advertised as AI today is, is not at all.
00:30:20.882 --> 00:30:23.942
It's, I mean, it's literally like, you know, people powering it.
00:30:24.384 --> 00:30:34.259
And I mean, I didn't even really, I feel like this book, it's like one of the problems with writing about AI is that it is moving so fast that like you, by the time you publish a book, it's like you're already behind.
00:30:34.630 --> 00:30:43.930
So there's that like, worry about like, book two is like, how am I going to like, possibly keep up with what's actually happening?
00:30:44.539 --> 00:30:55.700
So when I was reading this book so if anyone has stumbled into this before they've read it there's an idea that people who use magic need to have a conduit to perform their magic through and kind of focus it.
00:30:55.970 --> 00:30:58.589
And it's always typically it's an some kind of art.
00:30:59.009 --> 00:31:01.589
I thought for sure that seven's conduit was going to be.
00:31:01.904 --> 00:31:05.894
Coding, like the act of coding, which is in a creation, in a sense.
00:31:05.894 --> 00:31:07.035
She is making something.
00:31:07.464 --> 00:31:11.964
And then that ends up not being the case and it goes down this, the, the AI rabbit hole.
00:31:12.295 --> 00:31:13.285
But I was ready for that.
00:31:13.285 --> 00:31:18.174
Like computer creation is still creation, which would be a fascinating conversation to have
00:31:18.234 --> 00:31:21.744
That was, that was actually what I was intending to do originally.
00:31:22.259 --> 00:31:23.479
And then I don.
00:31:24.219 --> 00:31:29.409
Really remember exactly why I decided not to go that route.
00:31:29.469 --> 00:31:34.148
But I think part of it actually had to do with okay, stay with me here.
00:31:34.788 --> 00:31:49.788
Getting on book talk and creating those comedy videos that I make that like the ones that went viral that everyone, you know, really enjoys and realizing Up until that point, I, I had never had any inclination that, like anyone thought I was funny in any way.
00:31:49.818 --> 00:31:50.419
That was like a.
00:31:51.048 --> 00:31:58.048
Like what kind of crazy reveal and that those videos I was making, I started making them right around the same time that I started writing the book.
00:31:58.499 --> 00:32:07.709
And so realizing that like that was part of my voice, I started incorporating that into the book and the book became much funnier as a result of those videos.
00:32:07.709 --> 00:32:10.439
I think personally, I think it's like quite funny in places.
00:32:10.828 --> 00:32:15.336
And so I just started thinking a lot about humor and comedy and how.
00:32:15.846 --> 00:32:29.976
People would, would message me on Instagram saying things like, I had a really shitty day, or I had a really tough week, and then I saw your video and it made me laugh and really brightened my day and thank you so much.
00:32:30.306 --> 00:32:33.576
And that was like kind of the first time that I had ever really felt.
00:32:33.951 --> 00:32:45.300
Like my art had actually done something good in the world because up until that point, like writing, yes, you write a lot of books and like it kind of feels a lot of the time, like you're just like, mm-hmm.
00:32:46.300 --> 00:32:50.201
Saying your shit at people, and like, listen to me, look at me.
00:32:50.201 --> 00:32:50.980
Aren't I great?
00:32:50.980 --> 00:32:51.820
Blah, blah, blah.
00:32:51.871 --> 00:32:57.300
And, and it doesn't always feel like you're really doing anything important or helpful or useful.
00:32:57.790 --> 00:33:02.256
So when people started telling me, you know, I, I've enjoyed your videos, and it actually.
00:33:02.593 --> 00:33:03.883
Made my day better.
00:33:04.272 --> 00:33:14.952
All of a sudden I started thinking about the value of like, humor and telling jokes and like just, you know, that kind of dumb funny aspect of life.
00:33:15.012 --> 00:33:31.942
And I wanted to make the book a little bit, I don't know, kind of like a tribute to that or have that be a theme in the book because it kind of does end up that like dot the, the, the way that dot, learned how to lie was through jokes, right?
00:33:31.942 --> 00:33:36.923
So on the one hand, comedy was sort of like the downfall, or like humor was sort of like the downfall.
00:33:36.923 --> 00:33:40.823
It was like the thing that really unraveled everything and, and did all the bad stuff.
00:33:40.823 --> 00:33:48.800
But on the other hand like Kurt says, you know, making you laugh was the only good thing I ever did, or whatever it is that he says as he's dying.
00:33:49.349 --> 00:33:52.789
Whatever that super romantic and emotional line was, you know, read the book.
00:33:53.105 --> 00:33:54.214
shit was that I wrote.
00:33:54.795 --> 00:34:00.164
And then later on, seven realizes that her magic moment was just making him laugh.
00:34:00.164 --> 00:34:08.925
And I just liked that simplicity first of all, of like, it doesn't have to be some huge great achievement.
00:34:08.925 --> 00:34:11.445
It doesn't have to be some beautiful artistic thing.
00:34:11.445 --> 00:34:14.835
It can just literally be as simple as making someone laugh.
00:34:15.164 --> 00:34:15.675
And so.
00:34:16.094 --> 00:34:16.393
Yeah.
00:34:16.393 --> 00:34:21.764
On the one hand it's like the communi, the human connection part of that is important, I think thematically.
00:34:22.103 --> 00:34:31.824
And then also just the purely the comedy part of it I think is also important thematically and also like, to me and, and sort of what I'm trying to say and, and how I feel about the world.
00:34:32.313 --> 00:34:34.438
Well, and it, it's so interesting how.
00:34:34.793 --> 00:34:42.994
What we've end up finding out is the, the fake propaganda version of magic is like, almost like a forced productivity.
00:34:43.173 --> 00:34:48.213
Like the only thing that's worth doing is something that makes something, and art is good.
00:34:48.244 --> 00:34:49.534
I'm not trying to say that it's not.
00:34:49.934 --> 00:34:55.153
But the idea that you're not using your time valuably if you're not making something,
00:34:55.634 --> 00:34:56.534
That's interesting.
00:34:56.893 --> 00:35:02.173
I actually hadn't even really thought of it in terms of like a productivity thing, but that's, yeah, you're totally right.
00:35:02.173 --> 00:35:03.108
That is definitely.
00:35:03.619 --> 00:35:05.088
That is definitely a way to read it.
00:35:05.139 --> 00:35:11.949
I think what I was sort of going for a little bit was the way that social media companies have kind of co-opted art as content.
00:35:12.188 --> 00:35:12.639
Yes.
00:35:12.639 --> 00:35:12.998
Yeah.
00:35:13.329 --> 00:35:24.699
So like you get outside of the network and you realize like this is, you're literally channeling all of that beautiful energy and all of that power and all of that magic just into a machine that is just enriching these companies.
00:35:24.699 --> 00:35:37.869
And to be totally honest, that is how I feel on TikTok because, I mean, this is like getting a little in the weeds, but like, because I live on this boat and because I live in Central America, my TikTok account is registered in Mexico and I cannot change.
00:35:37.869 --> 00:35:40.353
I've tried so hard, I cannot change it back to the United States.
00:35:41.043 --> 00:35:42.934
So I make no money on my videos.
00:35:42.934 --> 00:35:59.284
I'm not eligible for the creator funds, so I'm like racking up millions and millions of views for these apps and making, I mean, not nothing because obviously, you know, it sells my books and I get lovely messages from people telling me, you know, how they enjoyed my videos.
00:35:59.284 --> 00:36:02.128
But financially I, it's like, What
00:36:02.704 --> 00:36:05.228
I mean, tick TikTok is profiting off of your content.
00:36:05.704 --> 00:36:06.034
Yeah.
00:36:06.063 --> 00:36:06.423
Yeah.
00:36:06.423 --> 00:36:14.704
And so that is a little bit, kind of what I was trying to, to do a little bit with the, with the whole, like art being a conduit, powering the network type type of thing.
00:36:15.003 --> 00:36:15.753
absolutely.
00:36:16.114 --> 00:36:23.217
I, I threw a tantrum and stopped using TikTok back in, you know, February when that whole, whole thing happened.
00:36:23.737 --> 00:36:25.206
Yeah, it is like, I don't know.
00:36:26.092 --> 00:36:30.184
And it is wonderful to share art and the internet and social media.
00:36:30.215 --> 00:36:36.394
Give us a platform to do that, but at the same time, does art have value, even if it is just for yourself?
00:36:36.545 --> 00:36:37.864
There's a lot of good questions there.
00:36:38.614 --> 00:36:40.894
I don't have the answer, but yeah.
00:36:41.894 --> 00:36:51.221
So near the end of the book there's a quote about how seven has been kind of like backwards, rebelling to kind of tie into this discussion about art.
00:36:51.501 --> 00:36:54.320
You know, she goes into computer science instead of music.
00:36:54.650 --> 00:36:56.001
And the.
00:36:56.402 --> 00:36:58.742
Whole book is a little bit like that.
00:36:58.742 --> 00:37:14.873
It felt with these comments about how art is the only path pursuing except that then you kind of flip that around again at the, at the very end where we find out that yeah, the, the art has been f feeding back into the machine and empowering the machine.
00:37:14.873 --> 00:37:17.902
Can you talk a little bit about flipping that concept.
00:37:18.728 --> 00:37:21.577
I wanted to do that a lot with the book actually in general.
00:37:21.577 --> 00:37:25.027
So like, I think I mentioned before, I like to play devil's advocate a little bit.
00:37:25.027 --> 00:37:27.128
I'm sort of just like a bit of a dick at heart.
00:37:27.467 --> 00:37:31.188
And I want to do things the opposite of what everyone else is doing.
00:37:31.188 --> 00:37:32.327
That's why I live on this boat.
00:37:32.788 --> 00:37:35.427
I wanted to like, play with tropes for one thing, right?
00:37:35.427 --> 00:37:48.898
So I wanted to kind of take these fairly recognizable, like romantic tropes and I wanted to like flip them a little bit because as much as I love book talk and as much as I love the community and as much as I am so grateful to have been like so.
00:37:49.302 --> 00:37:54.492
Welcomed with like open arms by these people who I'm sort of just poking fun at their favorite genre.
00:37:54.983 --> 00:37:58.523
But like everyone has such a great sense of humor about it and everyone's like, yeah, we know it's ridiculous.
00:37:58.523 --> 00:37:59.632
Like we love it anyway.
00:37:59.632 --> 00:38:01.072
Like, fuck off, who cares?
00:38:01.253 --> 00:38:04.643
And I love that attitude and I wanted to bring that a little bit to the book.
00:38:05.043 --> 00:38:11.313
But I also wanted to like use tropes in a way that was a little bit more subversive, so like.
00:38:11.516 --> 00:38:25.556
the telepathy trope for example, that's like a pretty commonly used trope in romantic where like hot dude talks in her head and it's so sexy and they have this great connection, but then, oh, surprise, we get to the end of the book and like, what's a dude actually gonna do if he can do that?
00:38:25.826 --> 00:38:28.675
Not every dude is gonna do that, but some of them.
00:38:29.110 --> 00:38:30.161
Probably are.
00:38:30.581 --> 00:38:35.077
and then there's like the one trope, obviously we get to the end, we find out, like seven's not the one.
00:38:35.077 --> 00:38:44.938
Alicia's actually the one I was trying to do a little bit of of subverting of the black person or the person of color always dies first, but there's a reason she died first.
00:38:44.938 --> 00:38:45.208
Right.
00:38:45.208 --> 00:38:50.297
And it's actually like, because she was literally chosen you know, so I was, I was hoping to just.
00:38:50.702 --> 00:38:53.342
Flip things as much as possible.
00:38:53.972 --> 00:39:01.202
The whole like narrative with art being the, like the best thing you can do and it being so great.
00:39:01.202 --> 00:39:10.862
That's another kind of trope I think like I'm sort of familiar with, with that in books of, it's like, especially in like anti-fascist books and books that are.
00:39:11.777 --> 00:39:13.818
Dystopian or whatever.
00:39:13.938 --> 00:39:18.884
There's always sort of a theme of like, art is great like, that's how we're gonna beat these guys.
00:39:19.003 --> 00:39:22.514
So I wanted to, I wanted to sort of flip that trope as well.
00:39:22.603 --> 00:39:25.454
And it was a, it was hard line to walk, honestly.
00:39:25.454 --> 00:39:27.764
I wasn't really sure if it was gonna work.
00:39:28.134 --> 00:39:34.313
I think it is a bit convoluted and like a little bit complicated that you kind of have to like explain at the end.
00:39:34.773 --> 00:39:37.594
But I, it sounds like you guys appreciated it, so that's,
00:39:37.744 --> 00:39:41.914
I mean, it it does, it does all come together at the end in a way that was really satisfying.
00:39:41.914 --> 00:39:44.233
So, yeah, like I, I thought it was great.
00:39:44.608 --> 00:39:45.028
Mm-hmm.
00:39:45.079 --> 00:39:45.378
Awesome.
00:39:46.378 --> 00:39:52.858
I, it's so strange that I have not asked you a single question about the romance plot line because as I
00:39:53.123 --> 00:39:57.324
It's actually not, my books are really not all the, they're not romances.
00:39:57.353 --> 00:39:58.373
Like, let's be honest.
00:39:59.213 --> 00:40:01.713
But it's just, I'm a, I am that reader though.
00:40:01.744 --> 00:40:04.353
'cause I was like, yes, fuck yes.
00:40:04.384 --> 00:40:05.103
Hell yes.
00:40:05.164 --> 00:40:05.523
Yes.
00:40:05.523 --> 00:40:07.893
More at various points throughout this book.
00:40:08.313 --> 00:40:09.244
And so I just have no question.
00:40:09.244 --> 00:40:10.023
I was like, yeah, great.
00:40:10.123 --> 00:40:15.893
I loved like obviously the boyfriend with so many red flags ending up being as awful as he seemed,
00:40:15.983 --> 00:40:17.063
Oh, he was such a dick.
00:40:17.409 --> 00:40:19.329
I have questions for you guys actually.
00:40:19.358 --> 00:40:26.168
So I would love to know, like did, did you for Logan, like did you spot his red flags throughout?
00:40:26.739 --> 00:40:31.208
Did you have like a feeling where you were like, what is this guy is like, not really.
00:40:31.208 --> 00:40:33.548
Or were you like, hell yes, I'm on board with Logan.
00:40:33.579 --> 00:40:34.778
Like give me the magic dick.
00:40:34.778 --> 00:40:36.518
I'm so curious to know.
00:40:37.028 --> 00:40:38.469
Sarah, do you, do you have an answer?
00:40:38.498 --> 00:40:38.949
So,
00:40:39.068 --> 00:40:39.878
a diatribe.
00:40:40.878 --> 00:40:44.239
so I thought he was a bit of a dick from the beginning.
00:40:44.568 --> 00:40:47.509
Part of that also is because I just really don't like Channing Tatum.
00:40:48.509 --> 00:40:48.798
Okay.
00:40:49.063 --> 00:40:49.514
Fair enough.
00:40:50.173 --> 00:40:56.143
And so the comparisons to Channing Tatum, I was like, why are you with this dude when you, when you could be with Kurt?
00:40:57.143 --> 00:41:02.603
That's so funny because, oh man, my fear is that people are gonna be like, Kurt Cobain.
00:41:02.603 --> 00:41:03.443
Ew, no thank you.
00:41:04.103 --> 00:41:05.873
He's like, I love Kurt Cobain.
00:41:05.873 --> 00:41:06.804
I'm a big fan.
00:41:07.114 --> 00:41:09.543
But I know that this is not for everyone for sure.
00:41:09.543 --> 00:41:16.789
So I kind of put t Channing Tatum in there as like the antithesis of that to be like, well, just in case people don't like Kurt, we'll have Channing Tatum as well, so that like.
00:41:17.789 --> 00:41:20.489
I feel like this might be chanting Tatum slander a little bit.
00:41:20.759 --> 00:41:22.643
Just like he didn't do any of those things.
00:41:22.793 --> 00:41:29.733
Logan's a different guy, but, so it's it was really hard because like you said, there are so many romantic tropes.
00:41:29.733 --> 00:41:33.123
The, the shadow daddy love interest, right.
00:41:33.123 --> 00:41:34.833
Is, is such a thing.
00:41:35.193 --> 00:41:40.474
And while I was reading the book, I like, at the beginning, I didn't know how far you were gonna go.
00:41:40.744 --> 00:41:48.153
Like once, once you start flipping tropes, it's like, okay, like I need to throw out every, all of my preconceived notions about what I've read up until this point.
00:41:48.704 --> 00:41:49.514
But at the time.
00:41:50.338 --> 00:41:55.079
It's unclear whether it's like, yeah, you're leaning into this trope or, oh shit, no.
00:41:55.219 --> 00:42:03.829
Every, everything, all of the realistic comments of, well, it actually wouldn't be great if a boyfriend did this in real life ends up coming to fruition.
00:42:04.429 --> 00:42:12.856
I think what I was, the one thing that was in the back of my head the whole time that you can't ignore is he lies to her about wiping her memory.
00:42:13.425 --> 00:42:13.695
Right.
00:42:13.695 --> 00:42:17.762
That's the, like the thing there was like, that's going to come up and be a problem at some point.
00:42:18.242 --> 00:42:19.952
But it ended up being so much more than that.
00:42:19.952 --> 00:42:21.213
I still felt like, okay.
00:42:22.213 --> 00:42:31.273
That's funny'cause I actually wondered if people would even re like, remember And so it's, it's actually good to know that like people are maybe like, what's gonna happen with this?
00:42:31.273 --> 00:42:34.273
'cause that is something, I guess that would kind of keep you reading or like you'd wanna
00:42:34.523 --> 00:42:37.733
Yeah, I was, I was definitely wondering the entire time, like.
00:42:38.563 --> 00:42:40.182
When is this conversation gonna happen?
00:42:40.213 --> 00:42:41.802
And it does happen and, and it
00:42:42.492 --> 00:42:43.782
But not at all how you expect.
00:42:43.813 --> 00:42:49.693
Yeah, not at all how you expect, and I was, I was really, really glad that it does come up because Yeah.
00:42:49.813 --> 00:42:54.608
That it's such a big thing and then it ends up being kind of minimized by all the other terrible things that he, that he does.
00:42:55.608 --> 00:42:55.827
It.
00:42:56.827 --> 00:42:57.117
Yeah.
00:42:57.813 --> 00:43:01.262
Well, like the, the traditional Tropey way of handling it would've been.
00:43:02.057 --> 00:43:06.527
That's the fight they have at the very end for them to break up and then get back together afterwards.
00:43:06.527 --> 00:43:06.797
Right.
00:43:06.797 --> 00:43:07.128
Like that would
00:43:07.202 --> 00:43:11.733
Or that there was some noble reason that he didn't tell her.
00:43:11.733 --> 00:43:11.913
Right.
00:43:11.913 --> 00:43:14.943
I had to protect you because if you had known blah, blah, blah.
00:43:15.257 --> 00:43:16.128
Mm-hmm.
00:43:16.248 --> 00:43:27.418
But the, the, the, the moment of conflict for them to overcome together in their relationship which was like, again, before I got to the trope starting to get flipped, that's where I thought it was going.
00:43:28.228 --> 00:43:32.472
But then at some point you have to just go, alright, everything I think is happening is out the window and
00:43:33.387 --> 00:43:41.697
I was actually kind of expecting, like I got maybe three quarters of the way through the book and I was kind of expecting that Logan was gonna be behind everything.
00:43:41.893 --> 00:43:42.313
mm-hmm.
00:43:42.402 --> 00:43:42.913
That's good.
00:43:43.003 --> 00:43:43.092
Oh,
00:43:43.242 --> 00:43:47.413
Yeah, I was, I was like, I was like, he's gonna turn out to be the bad guy.
00:43:47.503 --> 00:43:55.092
And he, I mean, he, he kind of is in the sense that he is also an AI that's been, you know, programmed to, to
00:43:55.713 --> 00:43:56.382
Manipulate.
00:43:56.833 --> 00:43:57.342
yeah.
00:43:57.463 --> 00:43:59.382
Capitulate and, and things like that.
00:43:59.382 --> 00:44:02.148
But he definitely wasn't the bad guy in the way that I was expecting.
00:44:03.148 --> 00:44:03.478
Cool.
00:44:03.478 --> 00:44:03.688
All right.
00:44:03.688 --> 00:44:03.927
Yeah.
00:44:03.927 --> 00:44:15.038
'cause I think I got about three quarters of the way through this book, and I realized I was writing a murder mystery where the murderer is the main character and also doesn't know she's the murderer.
00:44:16.038 --> 00:44:19.097
And at that point I was like, this is fucking complicated.
00:44:19.097 --> 00:44:21.047
Why did I do this to myself?
00:44:21.547 --> 00:44:35.378
And I realized, I was like, okay, well, so, you know, I would like to throw some red herrings at you so that people don't immediately just go, oh, well obviously the AI is evil, and we're just kind of waiting to see, you know, exactly how that plays out.
00:44:35.557 --> 00:44:39.788
Which I think probably there's people who probably will just read it that way and that's fine.
00:44:40.208 --> 00:44:47.068
But I, I don't think you ever really suspect soul even though I did kind of like try to lead you down that path a little bit.
00:44:47.097 --> 00:44:48.987
I don't know if anyone really ever does.
00:44:49.362 --> 00:44:50.233
Suspect soul.
00:44:50.682 --> 00:45:05.632
But I think if you think you've like outsmarted me and you're like, she's just trying to throw this soul thing at me to lead me off in the wrong direction because you think it's Logan, then that's great because then I've done my job and you really don't know what's going on at all.
00:45:05.632 --> 00:45:07.822
And I've done two red herrings and hooray.
00:45:08.063 --> 00:45:10.342
I, I did not see the ending coming.
00:45:10.342 --> 00:45:12.847
I loved it, but I did not see that coming at all.
00:45:13.717 --> 00:45:16.507
Well, and then you played me like a fiddle with
00:45:16.538 --> 00:45:16.748
Three.
00:45:16.898 --> 00:45:17.617
character.
00:45:17.858 --> 00:45:17.978
Oh, like.
00:45:18.978 --> 00:45:22.398
I, I feel like every single reaction I had was probably exact.
00:45:22.398 --> 00:45:30.527
If you have an outline somewhere where you're like, I hope the reader feels this, you probably did it with Kurt, because I went so much from like, okay, great.
00:45:30.527 --> 00:45:34.728
He's the cute love interest, or, oh no, he has a, a girlfriend or, oh, okay.
00:45:34.728 --> 00:45:39.527
I guess he was the love interest, red herring, if you will, that she doesn't actually end up with and then he comes back.
00:45:40.157 --> 00:45:45.938
So hot and romantic at the end, and they have their like emotional connection and I was just like, damn, you got me?
00:45:45.998 --> 00:45:46.148
You
00:45:46.237 --> 00:45:46.838
That's great.
00:45:46.838 --> 00:45:51.907
That was, I mean, that was something I really worried about because we don't really see Kurt for like the entire book.
00:45:52.027 --> 00:45:57.518
And then I basically have like two chapters at the end to get you really on board with Kurt before he fucking dies.
00:45:57.547 --> 00:45:59.648
And I was like, I don't know if this is gonna work.
00:45:59.648 --> 00:46:05.947
Like can I, I don't know if I can get people like we, we've heard nothing from this guy for like the entire book basically.
00:46:06.318 --> 00:46:07.458
So, you know.
00:46:07.952 --> 00:46:10.172
I don't know how good of a job I did.
00:46:10.172 --> 00:46:12.393
It sounds like pretty good, I think.
00:46:12.393 --> 00:46:14.702
But yeah, that was something I really worried about.
00:46:14.702 --> 00:46:15.032
Actually.
00:46:15.032 --> 00:46:17.943
I do, I don't have an outline of that kind of thing anywhere.
00:46:18.003 --> 00:46:20.793
I have an outline of the plot, but yeah,
00:46:21.222 --> 00:46:25.313
I just I did forget about him through the middle of the book, but also part of it is like.
00:46:25.822 --> 00:46:27.773
That's kind of how college works too.
00:46:27.802 --> 00:46:33.563
Like you, you meet people and then you don't have classes with them, or you don't see them for a while and they come back into your life.
00:46:33.563 --> 00:46:40.293
And so that actually felt very natural in a way like yeah, like you ebb and flow and that's really normal.
00:46:40.543 --> 00:46:47.853
And that made him feel like such a much more natural love interest than Logan did, especially at, by that point in the book things had started to fall apart there.
00:46:48.362 --> 00:46:49.592
Yeah, no, I was on board.
00:46:50.592 --> 00:46:50.833
Cool.
00:46:51.833 --> 00:46:58.432
I have to ask, while you were planning this out, was it always in the matrix the whole time?
00:46:59.432 --> 00:46:59.652
No.
00:46:59.652 --> 00:47:00.893
Well, so, hmm.
00:47:01.849 --> 00:47:24.798
When I first started writing this book, it was actually gonna be like a YA adventure story where a girl who is raised at sea by parents, sort of like my partner and I would be, if we were parents, has to go back to an American high school and reintegrate into an American high school and she discovers magic and the theater stuff was still gonna be there, but the whole AI thing wasn't even at all a part of it.
00:47:25.329 --> 00:47:26.253
And then I don't.
00:47:26.614 --> 00:47:37.893
Really remember why I decided to, I wanted to write something about ai and I already had this manuscript going, I think, and I was like, is there any way I can shoehorn AI into this manuscript that I'm already working on?
00:47:38.463 --> 00:47:39.844
Turns out, yep, there is.
00:47:40.213 --> 00:47:47.623
So I did that and I, I wanted her to have the magic AI assistant and I wanted her to be surrounded by artists.
00:47:47.623 --> 00:47:49.664
'cause obviously that like creates nice tension.
00:47:49.994 --> 00:47:51.583
The being inside the Matrix thing.
00:47:51.583 --> 00:47:53.239
Actually I wanted to a twist.
00:47:54.103 --> 00:47:55.454
And I didn't know what it was gonna be.
00:47:55.454 --> 00:48:05.934
I think I had plotted up until like around where the dragon is kind of like happening and I was like, I don't really know how I'm gonna get myself out this.
00:48:05.963 --> 00:48:08.918
So day SX mock, I guess.
00:48:09.367 --> 00:48:12.188
But I think the day SX markina thing, I.
00:48:12.532 --> 00:48:20.873
I liked that because I was like, well, God, from the machine, that's so meta, that's like literally what humans are doing in this book.
00:48:21.213 --> 00:48:27.603
And I like to have a little bit of like meta, there's other kind of like meta things that like are sort of sprinkled in the book.
00:48:28.112 --> 00:48:31.742
I knew I wanted to have the main character die'cause that just seemed like a fun challenge.
00:48:32.172 --> 00:48:35.563
And then I read cao, Ishi Gurus never let me Go.
00:48:35.965 --> 00:48:42.775
And I don't remember exactly what it was about that book that all of a sudden I was like, I know she's the ai.
00:48:42.896 --> 00:48:45.956
I think that's what it is, because in Kazu and it never let me go.
00:48:46.135 --> 00:48:47.005
She's the clone.
00:48:47.036 --> 00:48:47.396
Right.
00:48:47.396 --> 00:48:53.996
I think, I can't remember exactly the plot now, but I think I'd even spoiled that book for myself before I read it.
00:48:53.996 --> 00:48:56.425
I went in knowing the plot twist and it was still great.
00:48:56.635 --> 00:49:00.326
But the plot twist in that is that like you find out that.
00:49:01.326 --> 00:49:02.706
Oh fuck, I can't remember the plot now.
00:49:02.706 --> 00:49:04.536
But you find out that she's a clone basically.
00:49:04.596 --> 00:49:08.315
And I think when I read that I was like, yes, that's what I want.
00:49:08.315 --> 00:49:16.505
I want the plot twist where she is, the ai, which kind of got a little bit twisted with like her being a part of the network.
00:49:16.505 --> 00:49:21.996
But like as I started to sort of write that, I realized it had to be a little bit bigger than just like her being the ai.
00:49:21.996 --> 00:49:22.445
So.
00:49:22.789 --> 00:49:31.259
Yeah, it wasn't, a lot of things in the book weren't really planned and they sort of came together as I was writing which tends to happen.
00:49:31.259 --> 00:49:33.074
I think you, I plot.
00:49:33.594 --> 00:49:34.583
As much as I can.
00:49:34.583 --> 00:49:48.983
I'd like to give myself a nice framework where I at least know what each beat is going to be, but there's always gonna be stuff that changes and like new themes that come up and new threads that you realize you can connect as you're writing.
00:49:49.293 --> 00:49:55.204
And so I really love just letting that stuff kind of like develop and grow and build itself really.
00:49:56.204 --> 00:49:59.563
So what would you like readers to take away from this book?
00:50:00.563 --> 00:50:03.233
I think first and foremost, I just want people to have a really good time.
00:50:03.563 --> 00:50:05.213
I think that's honestly the most important thing.
00:50:05.213 --> 00:50:07.523
Like you should just have a fun time.
00:50:07.693 --> 00:50:17.563
there's a kraken and a chainsaw and the dude's got a magic dick and he's gonna recite Shakespeare while he goes down on her and like, yes, let's all just have a whale of a good time doing that.
00:50:17.934 --> 00:50:22.708
And then if you also come away from it being very surprised by the plot twists and enjoying that aspect of it.
00:50:22.708 --> 00:50:23.277
That's great.
00:50:23.514 --> 00:50:30.114
I don't think I'm necessarily hoping to, like, change anyone's opinion on AI or like, make any kind of grand statement.
00:50:30.114 --> 00:50:35.521
I think most of the things that are said about AI in this book are fairly well-known.
00:50:35.740 --> 00:50:35.831
Like.
00:50:36.324 --> 00:50:47.304
Talking points of, of the technology at this point, when I was writing it, you know, two years ago, it maybe wasn't quite so in the public discourse, but now it is.
00:50:47.483 --> 00:50:48.534
So that, but that's fine.
00:50:48.594 --> 00:50:56.244
Like if all it's doing is reinforcing your own echo chamber of, you know, the issues with the technology, then, then fine.
00:50:56.313 --> 00:50:58.688
Mostly I think it should just be a good time.
00:50:58.688 --> 00:51:00.668
And if, maybe, if you're a person who.
00:51:01.068 --> 00:51:07.248
Mostly reads romance and maybe doesn't pay attention so much to what's going on in the tech world.
00:51:07.608 --> 00:51:09.978
Maybe you might like learn something and that would be cool.
00:51:10.652 --> 00:51:14.492
Liz, thank you so much for taking some time out of your day to talk to us.
00:51:15.043 --> 00:51:23.322
Can you tell us a little bit about, I guess this book is just coming out, so is there anything that we should keep an eye out on from you, or is it, go read this book?
00:51:24.237 --> 00:51:25.197
Go read this book.
00:51:25.318 --> 00:51:26.608
Absolutely, please.
00:51:26.608 --> 00:51:29.632
And if you do like it, please spread the word because.
00:51:30.378 --> 00:51:34.007
Whether there will be a Book two is very much dependent on how sales of Book One go.
00:51:34.097 --> 00:51:37.288
So, please feel free to tell all your friends to also buy it.
00:51:37.807 --> 00:51:46.628
I'm currently working on a fantasy satire called Mother and Slaughter, which is basically a.
00:51:47.177 --> 00:51:48.077
How do I pitch this?
00:51:48.347 --> 00:52:00.918
It's a fantasy comedy about abortion and trans rights where a woman in her mid thirties, she's a gladiator, she gets knocked up and then she has to go on this like epic fantasy quest seeking a magical abortion.
00:52:01.438 --> 00:52:09.088
So I just kind of wrapped the manuscript on that and my agent and I are pitching it both as a novel and a graphic novel.
00:52:09.387 --> 00:52:11.038
So I'm pretty excited about that.
00:52:11.038 --> 00:52:12.117
I think it'd be really cool.
00:52:12.398 --> 00:52:15.777
That's probably the next thing that's coming up.
00:52:16.077 --> 00:52:20.128
I've been posting chapters of it, work in Progress chapters of it weekly on Patreon.
00:52:20.458 --> 00:52:27.657
If people are interested in checking out, like my current work in progress, the next thing I'll be working on probably is the next dot slash magic book.
00:52:27.657 --> 00:52:34.527
So if people read book one and really wanna go read book two, that should start posting to Patreon within the next couple months.
00:52:35.443 --> 00:52:41.072
And I believe that slash Magic actually will be out by the time this episode gets released.
00:52:41.103 --> 00:52:43.023
So everyone should go and buy it.
00:52:43.333 --> 00:52:44.713
So that we have a second book.
00:52:45.643 --> 00:52:46.213
Yes,
00:52:46.288 --> 00:52:47.668
need to know what happens with Kurt.
00:52:48.043 --> 00:52:48.793
I know, me too.
00:52:49.793 --> 00:52:56.217
And where can you be found on the internet so that people can keep up to date with, with all of these projects that you've got going on?
00:52:57.012 --> 00:53:00.853
Yeah, so you can find everything at my website, liz shipton.com.
00:53:01.242 --> 00:53:03.972
I'm also very active on social media.
00:53:04.253 --> 00:53:13.762
My Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Facebook handles are at Liz Shipton author, and I post probably too much like every day on those.
00:53:13.793 --> 00:53:17.693
So if you wanna see more of me than you ever wanted to see, go there.
00:53:18.693 --> 00:53:19.413
Fantastic.
00:53:19.413 --> 00:53:20.583
Well, thank you again so much.
00:53:20.583 --> 00:53:26.259
This has been a, a wonderful conversation and I can't wait for whichever project of yours I get to next.
00:53:26.768 --> 00:53:27.039
Yay.
00:53:27.068 --> 00:53:27.369
Thank you.
00:53:27.369 --> 00:53:28.119
Yeah, thanks so much.
00:53:28.119 --> 00:53:29.949
This was a really fun conversation.
00:53:29.949 --> 00:53:32.528
It was really nice to be able to chat this in depth about the book.
00:53:32.844 --> 00:53:33.143
Yeah.
00:53:33.143 --> 00:53:34.014
No, it was, it was great.
00:53:34.014 --> 00:53:35.063
Thank you so much for coming on.
00:53:37.172 --> 00:53:40.523
Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Fiction Fans.
00:53:40.972 --> 00:53:45.913
Come disagree with us! We're on BlueSky and Instagram at fictionfanspod.
00:53:46.222 --> 00:53:49.682
You can also email us at fictionfanspod at gmail.
00:53:49.713 --> 00:53:51.952
com or leave a comment on YouTube.
00:53:52.483 --> 00:53:59.293
If you enjoyed the episode, please rate and review on Spotify and Apple Podcasts, and follow us wherever your podcasts live.
00:54:00.038 --> 00:54:06.007
We also have a Patreon, where you can support us and find exclusive episodes and a lot of other nonsense.
00:54:06.422 --> 00:54:09.882
Thanks again for listening, and may your villains always be defeated.
00:54:10.347 --> 00:54:10.978
Bye!