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From AgExpert, it's the FCC
Knowledge Podcast,
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a show that features real
Canadians in agriculture,
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real stories
and real good conversations
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about the business of farming.
I'm your host, Aimée Stang.
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It's not that they don't want
the next generation to come in
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and start taking tasks
off their plate
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and start making
their lives easier.
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They just don't want
to lose that purpose.
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Hello, and welcome to our first
episode of season 4 of the FCC
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Knowledge Podcast.
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In this episode,
we're chatting with Evan Shout.
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Growing up as a farm kid
in central Saskatchewan,
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Evan’s path to the farm
and back again
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wasn't your typical journey,
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and he didn't land
in a typical farm role.
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Today, Evan is not only a CPA,
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but also the Chief Financial
Officer of Hebert Grain
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Ventures, which at the time
of this recording
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is a 40,000-acre grain
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and oilseed operation located
in Moosomin, Saskatchewan.
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He performs his role
from his Saskatoon office
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over 400 kilometres
from the farm.
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Evan is also a consultant,
business coach and speaker,
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through Hebert Group's
Consulting
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and Financial Management
division, Maverick Ag.
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Welcome to the podcast, Evan.
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Why don't you start telling us
how you got doing what you do?
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It's a long story.
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So I guess I grew up a farm kid,
just like most of us did,
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and loved the life,
loved everything about it.
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Back then, there wasn't
really money in farming.
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So Dad kind of gave me
the little push
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and said go get an education.
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So I ended up getting
my accounting degree
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from the University
of Saskatchewan,
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then went on to my CPA
and then started
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a public accounting job
with MNP in Saskatoon.
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Now at the same time,
I also had the bug,
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so I ended up back at the farm
even though there was no money.
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And I did that for about
10 years off and on.
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I went busy season
to busy season
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until obviously my wife said,
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“You know what,
I'd like to see you
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a little more once in a while
during the year.”
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So I left public accounting
in 2010, went farming full time,
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and in 2014 we had our
first child and he has autism.
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So we moved back to Saskatoon,
I went back to MNP
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and I thought that's where
the journey would end.
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And then in 2019,
a very close friend of mine,
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Kristjan Hebert,
gave me a bit of a job offer
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on his large-scale
grain operation,
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and I decided to take
the path less travelled.
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And so I ended up
the Chief Financial Officer
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at Hebert Grain Ventures
in 2019.
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I'm just going to jump into
that whole aspect of you
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getting hired as a CFO on a farm
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because that's not
very common, right?
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And what was the thought
process to get there?
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What was Kristjan's mindset,
I guess?
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There's probably
a couple of things.
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So first he attended TEPAP,
which is the Texas
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A&M Executive Program
for Producers, back in 2016-17,
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somewhere in there.
It was just about building
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that business mindset
around agriculture.
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How you make the farm
more of a business.
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As the farm grew,
I think he just came to believe
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that he couldn't do
everything himself,
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so I got hired more or less
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to just take a few tasks
off his plate
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so that he could concentrate
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on some of the bigger
impact items such as growth.
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When I joined, the farm
was just over 14,000 acres
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and we planted 41,000 this year.
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So the growth trajectory
didn't really slow down.
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Part of it was he brought on
a whole bunch of people,
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including myself,
to just take the roles
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that he either
wasn't interested in,
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or honestly, that he just wanted
somebody else
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with some experience to take on.
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You do some consulting
on the side too, right?
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Or is it kind of a separate
entity from the business?
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So, it's under the umbrella
Hebert Group,
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which after that first year
we realized that the CFO role,
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even though it did take
a lot of my time,
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it wasn't everything.
And honestly,
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once we had processes set up
and people underneath me,
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I could delegate a whole bunch
of those tasks as well.
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We got a whole bunch
of free time.
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What are we good at?
Consulting.
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Financial consulting,
operational consulting.
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So we started Maverick Ag
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in I guess
it would have been 2019–2020.
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A few of my clients
from MNP came over,
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and I just started doing
internal CFO work.
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It was just more or less
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taking that financial burden
off producers
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so that they didn't have
to worry about it,
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making sure that they had the
right numbers in front of them,
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dealing with the banks,
coming up with capital plans.
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I just went into their business
almost as another employee
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and just offered those services.
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That was kind of
where Maverick started.
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That probably brings
a lot of perspective
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in terms of learning from
other farm businesses, right?
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We're big believers in data.
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The more data
we can have come through,
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the better it is
for not only Maverick,
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but for the farm as well.
Whether it's equipment data,
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whether it's financial data,
even networks,
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these farms had a whole bunch
of networks outside of ours.
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It just allowed me
to have more networks,
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which then turned around
and we used it on our farm.
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We honestly tell people
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that Maverick is just a data
company at this point.
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We get to see
a whole bunch of stuff
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across the entire industry,
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and it allows us
to make decisions
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without really
a whole bunch of risk
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because we kind of know
the answer
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before we make the decision.
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Low risk is definitely something
that resonates
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with farmers right now,
especially with risk management
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being such an important part
of the decision-making process.
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How does that play
into a CEO mindset?
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That's where we take
the conversation next.
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Let's start with the mindset
of Canadian farms at this time.
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Where do you think we're at
and what does the shift
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to the CEO mindset look like?
And why is it important?
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We're a very proud industry.
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We're built on families,
we're built on legacy,
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we're built on the lifestyle
of agriculture.
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But I think the part
that's changing,
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or that we've realized, is that
the lifestyle didn't create
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the business—the business
creates the lifestyle.
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There are a lot of farms
that have the lifestyle,
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but it's making it much more
difficult to be a producer
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these days
with the amount of costs,
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the [number] of zeros
behind every decision.
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The CEO mindset is more
running it like a business.
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So having procedures,
having people, having processes,
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and more or less making the farm
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into what we call
a self-managing enterprise.
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If you weren't there today,
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everybody just goes
about their work.
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We talked to a lot
of small family farms
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and they always
fight back on that.
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They don't realize it still
needs to be run as a business.
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We all know that succession
and transition on farms
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are massive issues these days,
and part of it
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is just that nobody
has a role or responsibility.
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Everybody is just in charge
of everything, right?
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Well, in any other industry,
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if you put two people
on the same job,
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you're going to [have]
conflict.
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That's what we do
on family farms.
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Everybody's in charge
of running the drill.
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Everybody's in charge
of running the combine.
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You know it's all the same roles
and responsibilities.
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Even that business mindset
on small farms,
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it needs to shift
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so that everybody has their own
little piece of the pie
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of “I'm in charge of this,”
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“this is my responsibility,”
“this is my role”.
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And by running it that way,
you get the lifestyle,
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and that's the biggest change
I think that you're seeing,
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is just the shift
to the CEO mindset.
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So how does this specifically
play out on the farm?
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Part of it is that
we're starting to see
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the next generation really shift
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into taking
different specialties.
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Technology has made
that a lot easier
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because obviously
the next generation
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is much more technological
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savvy than
our generation probably was,
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but it's giving them different
roles,
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different responsibilities.
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So, when they do come
back to the farm,
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they're not all stepping
on each other's toes
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because Dad knows that Son
is better in agronomy or tech,
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or he's better at marketing,
and Son knows that Dad [has]
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the experience,
he's grown 30 crops,
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he knows how to put things
in the ground.
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Those kinds of roles
and responsibilities split,
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that's where you start seeing
the big CEO mindset
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because, honestly, everybody's
in charge of their own thing.
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The CEO has delegated
all these jobs
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that he's not good at
or doesn't want to do.
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He can start concentrating on
strategy and mission and values
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and all those things that we've
not looked at in agriculture.
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But with the way the industry
is going with consolidation
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and cost of production,
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that has to be
taken into context.
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There is a return on that,
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of actually
spending time in those areas
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because that's probably
where you're making
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the majority of your money.
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And generally speaking, farmers,
by their nature,
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do not like to be
stuck in the office,
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so that's probably a tough sell
for you
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when you're working with farms
or presenting to them?
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It is and it isn't.
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They think it's an office job
and I can promise you right now
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that my business partner,
Kristjan,
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who is the CEO of our group,
he doesn't sit in an office.
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Yes, he's in a few boardrooms
now and then,
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but honestly,
he's out on the farm.
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He's managing, he's supervising,
he's running processes.
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The CEO no longer
has to sit in an ivory tower.
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They're honestly out there.
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They're not the one
driving the machine.
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Not that they can't.
If they do, it's by choice.
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They don't need
to get up at 5:00 a.m.
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because they've got a team
in place
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that is
probably better at it than them,
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can run
the machines longer than them,
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is concentrating more on that
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while the CEOs
are on their phone
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and they're negotiating
an equipment deal
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or they're looking at
selling canola
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from six months down the road.
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And you're right,
there's a big push back
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because that's not
what they signed up for.
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But what we're seeing
is that next generation,
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they want to be
that next level up.
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They want to be
the business owners.
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They want to
be the entrepreneurs.
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Theoretically, about 5%
of Canadians are entrepreneurs,
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but every farmer
is an entrepreneur,
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so it's a hard mix
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because you might be put in
that position of being a CEO,
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but you're not a CEO.
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So, what happens when the farmer
really does
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not want to be the CEO?
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Have you seen where farms
have hired out that function?
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I'm actually working with
a farmer right now
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whose son is probably
not going to take that role.
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He's quite happy just being
an owner and an operator
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because that's what
he likes doing,
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and there's
nothing wrong with that.
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What you do is you bring
in third parties.
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Most farms do that today
without even realizing it,
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whether it's their accountants,
their lawyers…
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They're doing that by talking
to other advisors.
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So the majority of that CEO’s
decisions are being done
245
00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:47,500
outside of
just their own office.
246
00:09:47,500 --> 00:09:49,230
Then you get some of
the more progressive guys
247
00:09:49,230 --> 00:09:50,460
such as Kristjan,
248
00:09:50,460 --> 00:09:53,560
who brings me in or our COO
is a third party.
249
00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:56,010
Both of us are owners
of the farm,
250
00:09:56,010 --> 00:09:58,170
so we've got equity
share in HGV.
251
00:09:58,170 --> 00:10:01,160
That was his setup. He's going
to bring in good people,
252
00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:03,650
he's going to fight
for compensation.
253
00:10:03,650 --> 00:10:05,330
And for me,
I was leaving public accounting,
254
00:10:05,330 --> 00:10:06,860
so I was going to be a partner
255
00:10:06,860 --> 00:10:08,680
sometime
in the future hopefully.
256
00:10:08,680 --> 00:10:10,200
That was what he was
competing against.
257
00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:12,090
For me,
it was that equity ownership.
258
00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:14,070
He's got nonfamily members
259
00:10:14,070 --> 00:10:15,940
that are now
part of that organization.
260
00:10:15,940 --> 00:10:18,710
My motivation is to make
as much money as we can
261
00:10:18,710 --> 00:10:20,550
because it comes back
into my pocket.
262
00:10:20,550 --> 00:10:22,600
So, it's that growth factor.
263
00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:24,760
That's what we're
starting to see.
264
00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:26,900
Are there any other hesitancies
that
265
00:10:26,900 --> 00:10:30,800
you're seeing from producers
to get into this mindset?
266
00:10:31,820 --> 00:10:34,000
It's not that they don't want
the next generation to come in
267
00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:36,110
and start taking tasks off
their plate
268
00:10:36,110 --> 00:10:37,909
and start making
their lives easier.
269
00:10:38,450 --> 00:10:40,540
They just don't want to lose
that purpose.
270
00:10:40,540 --> 00:10:44,030
They've been a farmer since
they were probably 18 to 20
271
00:10:44,030 --> 00:10:45,950
[and now] they're turning 60.
272
00:10:45,950 --> 00:10:47,480
The average age
of a farmer in Saskatchewan
273
00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:49,410
is getting close
to that 60 range.
274
00:10:49,410 --> 00:10:51,230
They don't know what else
there is to do in life
275
00:10:51,230 --> 00:10:54,980
when we have these discussions.
You're not moving on.
276
00:10:54,980 --> 00:10:56,690
I don't want you
just to pick up one day,
277
00:10:56,690 --> 00:10:58,940
move to Arizona
and not be part of the farm.
278
00:10:58,940 --> 00:11:00,790
Call it a promotion,
call it a delegation,
279
00:11:00,790 --> 00:11:02,150
call it whatever you want.
280
00:11:02,150 --> 00:11:05,110
You're moving into a different
position on the farm.
281
00:11:05,110 --> 00:11:07,780
You're not going to be working
till 2:00 a.m. on the combine,
282
00:11:07,780 --> 00:11:10,420
but you might be sitting in
boardrooms with networks
283
00:11:10,420 --> 00:11:13,990
and capital and bankers,
and having those discussions.
284
00:11:13,990 --> 00:11:16,040
It's having
the right roles set up
285
00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:17,470
and having the right people
in those roles
286
00:11:17,470 --> 00:11:19,820
that ends up making
the shift a lot easier.
287
00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:22,730
I've heard a farm
transition specialist
288
00:11:22,730 --> 00:11:25,490
talking about reinventing
yourself rather than retiring.
289
00:11:25,490 --> 00:11:29,660
That sounds a lot more palatable
to the senior generation to me
290
00:11:29,660 --> 00:11:31,280
rather than
“you're out of here.”
291
00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:32,850
Even for me,
I'm not that age yet,
292
00:11:32,850 --> 00:11:34,460
but I'm quickly coming upon it,
293
00:11:34,460 --> 00:11:38,210
which is daunting me
how old I am,
294
00:11:38,210 --> 00:11:40,680
but I've learned through
Strategic Coach
295
00:11:40,680 --> 00:11:42,420
and through a whole bunch
of entrepreneur programs
296
00:11:42,420 --> 00:11:45,010
that I don't know
if I ever really want to retire.
297
00:11:45,630 --> 00:11:46,970
Yeah, I want to slow down,
298
00:11:46,970 --> 00:11:48,500
I don't want to be here
9:00 to 5:00.
299
00:11:48,500 --> 00:11:51,160
I mean, that's the goal in life.
But that doesn't mean
300
00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:52,450
I don't want
to sit on a few boards
301
00:11:52,450 --> 00:11:55,370
and maybe I want to be on the
Hebert Group Board of Directors
302
00:11:55,370 --> 00:11:58,130
until I'm 90, and I'm Warren
Buffett kind of thing.
303
00:11:58,130 --> 00:12:00,890
It's that discussion.
What does retirement look like?
304
00:12:00,890 --> 00:12:02,570
For me, I don't think
it's sitting on a couch
305
00:12:02,570 --> 00:12:04,290
or golfing six days a week.
306
00:12:04,900 --> 00:12:07,330
I think it's actually being
a part of this organization,
307
00:12:07,330 --> 00:12:09,180
but in a different parameter,
right?
308
00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:13,180
Yeah, just always evolving,
right? Just like the farm is.
309
00:12:14,170 --> 00:12:15,780
Some of the resistance
might come from farmers
310
00:12:15,780 --> 00:12:17,830
seeing the work in the boardroom
on a different level
311
00:12:17,830 --> 00:12:20,030
than getting
their hands dirty in the field.
312
00:12:20,030 --> 00:12:21,980
Changing roles means changing
the value placed
313
00:12:21,980 --> 00:12:23,240
on the work being done,
314
00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:25,200
and that view of work
has changed from generation
315
00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:27,220
to generation,
says Evan.
316
00:12:27,220 --> 00:12:30,290
I think hours worked. That was
an indication of success.
317
00:12:30,290 --> 00:12:32,630
If you put in 3000 hours,
you were successful.
318
00:12:33,830 --> 00:12:37,220
That mindset has changed without
actually even being forced to
319
00:12:37,220 --> 00:12:39,930
because the next generation is
not like the older generations.
320
00:12:39,930 --> 00:12:42,040
They're starting to realize
that family time
321
00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:43,370
and time with their children
322
00:12:43,370 --> 00:12:46,080
and all that stuff is kind of
coming into the picture.
323
00:12:47,010 --> 00:12:49,080
When we talk human resources
a lot,
324
00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:51,680
it's not necessarily that you
need somebody else on the farm.
325
00:12:51,680 --> 00:12:52,980
If you want to work 3000 hours,
326
00:12:52,980 --> 00:12:54,810
do everything yourself,
be the CEO,
327
00:12:54,810 --> 00:12:57,830
the janitor, or the operator,
you can do that.
328
00:12:58,460 --> 00:13:00,490
Just know you're giving up
something else.
329
00:13:00,490 --> 00:13:01,950
And if it's not
business related,
330
00:13:01,950 --> 00:13:05,010
whether it's profit, marketing,
it's probably family time.
331
00:13:05,540 --> 00:13:08,470
So what we're realizing is,
especially on the coaching side,
332
00:13:08,470 --> 00:13:10,160
guys are starting to have that
“aha” moment
333
00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:13,900
that HR is not necessarily
making their job less important.
334
00:13:14,530 --> 00:13:17,150
It's allowing them to actually
get outside the farm
335
00:13:17,790 --> 00:13:19,960
and spend time
with their children
336
00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:22,630
or go on dates with their wives,
their spouses,
337
00:13:22,630 --> 00:13:26,390
things that in the past
probably got set on the shelf.
338
00:13:26,390 --> 00:13:28,480
And I mean, my business
partner’s living proof.
339
00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:30,230
He was in Calgary for two
340
00:13:30,230 --> 00:13:32,650
or three days
during seeding this year,
341
00:13:32,650 --> 00:13:35,430
doing some public speaking and
he was in a couple of panels.
342
00:13:35,430 --> 00:13:38,200
Even he's made the transition
that he doesn't need to be
343
00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:40,130
at the farm
every single day
344
00:13:40,130 --> 00:13:42,840
during the growing season
for grain to grow.
345
00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:45,600
He's probably not the right one
in the machinery anymore anyway.
346
00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:47,160
We got a lot younger team,
347
00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:48,880
a lot more knowledgeable
in tech.
348
00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:52,190
So what we're starting to prove
is that that CEO mindset
349
00:13:52,190 --> 00:13:54,420
isn't just about
the decision-making.
350
00:13:54,420 --> 00:13:55,730
It's honestly about
stepping back
351
00:13:55,730 --> 00:14:00,270
and having priorities and
balancing personal and business.
352
00:14:00,270 --> 00:14:02,090
Because in agriculture,
we've never done that.
353
00:14:02,090 --> 00:14:03,880
Agriculture has never had
those discussions,
354
00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:05,750
and I think they're starting
to happen more and more now.
355
00:14:05,750 --> 00:14:07,640
If you're saying yes
to more hours,
356
00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:11,120
you're obviously saying no
to more family time,
357
00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:13,310
more time in the relationship
with your spouse,
358
00:14:13,310 --> 00:14:15,500
which I would assume
if you're running a family farm
359
00:14:15,500 --> 00:14:17,260
that's a crucial relationship
360
00:14:17,260 --> 00:14:19,340
that you need
to invest some time in.
361
00:14:20,340 --> 00:14:22,310
Like you said,
people are realizing that
362
00:14:22,310 --> 00:14:25,500
and the younger generations
are seeing people around them
363
00:14:25,500 --> 00:14:27,660
have marriage breakdowns
or they're seeing
364
00:14:27,660 --> 00:14:29,740
how their relationships
with their parents were.
365
00:14:29,740 --> 00:14:31,440
I think the definition
of lifestyle has changed
366
00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:32,650
is what it is.
367
00:14:32,650 --> 00:14:36,140
I mean, lifestyle 30 years ago
was “grow up on the farm,
368
00:14:36,140 --> 00:14:38,860
work on the farm,
do everything on the farm.”
369
00:14:38,860 --> 00:14:40,240
That's what it was.
370
00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:42,410
Now I think the lifestyle
definition is that you,
371
00:14:42,410 --> 00:14:43,620
you still have the farm,
372
00:14:43,620 --> 00:14:45,860
but there's still stuff
outside of it.
373
00:14:45,860 --> 00:14:48,090
Go to kids’ sporting events,
that kind of stuff.
374
00:14:48,090 --> 00:14:51,190
I mean, growing up seeding,
dad didn't make my graduation
375
00:14:51,190 --> 00:14:53,040
and sporting events
because he was in the field.
376
00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:55,740
Nowadays, I know Kristjan made
a couple of his kids’
377
00:14:55,740 --> 00:14:57,300
baseball games during seeding.
378
00:14:57,300 --> 00:14:59,290
And they're going to say,
“You know, we're a larger farm,
379
00:14:59,290 --> 00:15:01,130
so we have the ability
to do that.”
380
00:15:01,130 --> 00:15:02,570
But even on small-scale farms,
381
00:15:02,570 --> 00:15:04,400
that's still a decision
you can make.
382
00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:06,380
Do we have enough people
around us
383
00:15:06,380 --> 00:15:08,240
so that you can take one day
a week off
384
00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:09,620
to go see your kid play sports
385
00:15:09,620 --> 00:15:11,800
in the spring
or during the summer,
386
00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:13,860
the amount of spraying
we do now as farmers,
387
00:15:13,860 --> 00:15:16,610
summer really has not become
a holiday season for most.
388
00:15:17,270 --> 00:15:19,160
So it's “how do you get
to the lake for a weekend
389
00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:21,980
without worrying about
flea beetles or fungicide”.
390
00:15:21,980 --> 00:15:23,540
The guys who are making
that shift,
391
00:15:23,540 --> 00:15:26,060
they're just coming to that
conclusion a lot faster
392
00:15:26,060 --> 00:15:27,910
than some of the ones
who aren't.
393
00:15:27,910 --> 00:15:30,900
So let's say a farmer, producer
or the farm owner
394
00:15:30,900 --> 00:15:32,500
has bought into the CEO mindset.
395
00:15:33,010 --> 00:15:36,620
How would they balance the urge
to maybe fight the guilt
396
00:15:36,620 --> 00:15:38,160
that they might feel
if they're not involved
397
00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:42,180
in all the aspects
or not being there at 5:00 a.m.
398
00:15:42,180 --> 00:15:45,840
when everybody is there
and working the 20-hour day?
399
00:15:46,370 --> 00:15:48,100
You said the one word that I was
going to say.
400
00:15:48,100 --> 00:15:49,450
The biggest issue is guilt.
401
00:15:49,450 --> 00:15:50,740
It's not that
they need to be there
402
00:15:50,740 --> 00:15:53,450
for the 5:00 a.m. phone call.
They want that phone call
403
00:15:53,450 --> 00:15:55,220
because they feel guilty
if they're not out there
404
00:15:55,220 --> 00:15:58,200
and there's a breakdown
or somebody's working on stuff.
405
00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:00,850
And the biggest thing was
just the delegation factors.
406
00:16:00,850 --> 00:16:03,960
We started putting really good
people in the roles on the farm.
407
00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:05,310
It's really hard to trust.
408
00:16:05,310 --> 00:16:07,380
And in today's society,
we always reward performance,
409
00:16:07,380 --> 00:16:08,980
but we never reward trust.
410
00:16:08,980 --> 00:16:11,380
In agriculture,
to get over the guilt factor
411
00:16:11,380 --> 00:16:13,910
and to not be out there
24 hours a day,
412
00:16:13,910 --> 00:16:16,710
you have to have trust.
So for us, it was making sure
413
00:16:16,710 --> 00:16:18,230
that we had the right people
in the machinery.
414
00:16:18,230 --> 00:16:22,070
As I said, the best operators
that we can find and we trust
415
00:16:22,070 --> 00:16:24,980
that they're going to make
the right decisions at 2:00 a.m.
416
00:16:24,980 --> 00:16:26,390
or at 5:00 in the afternoon
417
00:16:26,390 --> 00:16:28,790
when you're home having supper
with your kids.
418
00:16:28,790 --> 00:16:31,010
The biggest thing for us
was we've got teams
419
00:16:31,530 --> 00:16:33,950
and we've got management
in charge of each team,
420
00:16:33,950 --> 00:16:36,530
and they've got the processes
and procedures in place
421
00:16:36,530 --> 00:16:39,500
that they can solve 98% of
what comes across their plate.
422
00:16:40,270 --> 00:16:42,550
They've either had experience
with it before,
423
00:16:42,550 --> 00:16:44,570
or they know
what the process is.
424
00:16:44,570 --> 00:16:46,270
And honestly,
they just do it like clockwork,
425
00:16:46,270 --> 00:16:48,410
and we trust that
if they can't do it,
426
00:16:48,410 --> 00:16:50,100
we're going to get
that phone call.
427
00:16:50,100 --> 00:16:52,270
The biggest thing was getting
over the guilt.
428
00:16:52,270 --> 00:16:54,800
Then you realize that you've put
the right individuals
429
00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:56,140
in the right spots.
430
00:16:56,140 --> 00:16:57,440
That's an interesting concept
431
00:16:57,440 --> 00:16:59,030
when they know
that they're trusted
432
00:16:59,030 --> 00:17:00,340
and they can make
those decisions
433
00:17:00,340 --> 00:17:02,390
and they're empowered
to make those decisions,
434
00:17:02,390 --> 00:17:05,060
that makes things move
a whole lot more smoothly.
435
00:17:05,060 --> 00:17:07,210
You have to make agriculture
a career.
436
00:17:07,210 --> 00:17:08,640
We've done that in the past,
437
00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:10,600
we've always made
a hired hand a job.
438
00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:11,930
I hate the term “hired hand”
439
00:17:11,930 --> 00:17:13,820
because
it’s almost like a dirty word.
440
00:17:13,820 --> 00:17:15,560
But we haven't come up
with a better concept
441
00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:17,420
and that's probably
why agriculture hasn't moved
442
00:17:17,420 --> 00:17:18,660
as far as other industries
443
00:17:18,660 --> 00:17:20,370
when it comes
to human resources.
444
00:17:20,370 --> 00:17:22,800
For us, the whole trust factor
comes from the fact
445
00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:24,640
that we're trying
to give employees a career.
446
00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:25,910
So when they start with us,
447
00:17:25,910 --> 00:17:27,280
they might start on a rock
picker,
448
00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:30,120
but they know that if they're
here for X [number] of years,
449
00:17:30,120 --> 00:17:31,520
they're going to move
their way up,
450
00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:33,970
they're going to get training,
they're going to get education,
451
00:17:33,970 --> 00:17:36,060
they're going to get knowledge,
experience,
452
00:17:36,060 --> 00:17:38,080
and they're going to
move into maybe a drill
453
00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:40,450
and then they might manage
a team or a crew.
454
00:17:40,450 --> 00:17:42,740
And then they might end up
in Jeff’s role of COO
455
00:17:42,740 --> 00:17:44,200
or my role of CFO.
456
00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:46,430
That's the goal is
I honestly want to come to work
457
00:17:46,430 --> 00:17:47,910
and be the least
useful person here
458
00:17:47,910 --> 00:17:50,290
because it means that I have
the right team under me,
459
00:17:50,290 --> 00:17:53,550
and all of them are better
at their job than I was.
460
00:17:53,550 --> 00:17:56,800
It's that career progression
that we're trying to create
461
00:17:56,800 --> 00:17:59,240
that's forced us
to give people the trust,
462
00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:01,790
to give them the ability
to manage other people.
463
00:18:01,790 --> 00:18:03,170
And to make sure
they're educated
464
00:18:03,170 --> 00:18:04,480
and have the experience to do it
465
00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:06,400
because you don't want to put
someone in there that's not.
466
00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:08,590
For us, it's just been a steady
stream of making sure
467
00:18:08,590 --> 00:18:10,690
that the people
under us understand
468
00:18:10,690 --> 00:18:12,700
that there is growth on the farm
469
00:18:12,700 --> 00:18:14,580
and we want them
to be part of it,
470
00:18:14,580 --> 00:18:16,590
partially because
I want to grow too.
471
00:18:16,590 --> 00:18:18,470
I don't want to be in the
same role for the next 30 years,
472
00:18:18,470 --> 00:18:19,710
and for me to grow,
473
00:18:19,710 --> 00:18:21,620
somebody else
has to be able to do my job.
474
00:18:21,620 --> 00:18:23,280
Public accounting, when I
was there, is no different.
475
00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:25,460
When I started, I knew
I wanted to be [a] partner,
476
00:18:25,460 --> 00:18:27,530
but I had to be a CPA first,
477
00:18:27,530 --> 00:18:30,260
then a manager, then associate,
then principal.
478
00:18:30,260 --> 00:18:32,490
There's a role,
but I knew that going in,
479
00:18:32,490 --> 00:18:33,690
where [for] most farmers,
480
00:18:33,690 --> 00:18:34,920
you get in there
as a rock picker,
481
00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:37,190
you assume you're going on
the rock picker for 30 years.
482
00:18:37,190 --> 00:18:39,489
We have to start giving
that career projection
483
00:18:40,190 --> 00:18:41,570
for them to stick around
484
00:18:41,570 --> 00:18:43,190
and for them
to start moving up the chain
485
00:18:43,190 --> 00:18:44,790
so that we can slow down.
486
00:18:45,580 --> 00:18:49,330
Yes, it's been such a challenge
to find human resources
487
00:18:49,330 --> 00:18:50,900
or human capital in agriculture
488
00:18:50,900 --> 00:18:52,999
and get the people
in the right positions.
489
00:18:53,650 --> 00:18:56,810
What's been your mindset
about the hiring process?
490
00:18:57,340 --> 00:18:59,190
When he brought myself
in and Jeff,
491
00:18:59,190 --> 00:19:02,620
we both had big careers.
We were in other careers
492
00:19:02,620 --> 00:19:04,400
that we could have stayed in
for the rest of our lives,
493
00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:07,830
so it was a little more top end,
I guess you would call it.
494
00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:11,210
But our management staff,
they were producers,
495
00:19:11,210 --> 00:19:13,710
or they ran other businesses,
and they were good at their job
496
00:19:13,710 --> 00:19:15,720
whether heavy-duty mechanics
or electricians
497
00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:18,150
or one was a drill press
on the rigs.
498
00:19:18,150 --> 00:19:20,120
And when we brought them in,
we trained them
499
00:19:20,120 --> 00:19:21,810
and that's
our next management group.
500
00:19:21,810 --> 00:19:24,360
That's the group that's
stepping up into the next realm
501
00:19:24,360 --> 00:19:25,690
to start running our crews
502
00:19:25,690 --> 00:19:27,770
and they're the ones
that we have to learn to trust.
503
00:19:27,770 --> 00:19:29,680
And then our operators,
504
00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:33,510
a lot of them have either
been farms that we've acquired,
505
00:19:33,510 --> 00:19:35,710
and they wanted to stick around
and run machinery,
506
00:19:35,710 --> 00:19:36,930
or older farmers
507
00:19:36,930 --> 00:19:38,400
that have retired
from their own operation.
508
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:39,620
We built the team around that.
509
00:19:39,620 --> 00:19:41,200
We want a core group
of full-time guys
510
00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:42,840
that we keep all year-round.
511
00:19:43,470 --> 00:19:45,760
They're the ones
who progress up the chain.
512
00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:47,710
But you also need
that other group
513
00:19:47,710 --> 00:19:49,990
that just wants to show up
during the busy season.
514
00:19:49,990 --> 00:19:52,830
They want their winters off.
It's a bit of a mix.
515
00:19:53,410 --> 00:19:55,110
We're starting to go
to some of the schools now
516
00:19:55,110 --> 00:19:56,700
and offer scholarships,
and stuff like that,
517
00:19:56,700 --> 00:19:58,570
because we want to
keep our team young.
518
00:19:58,570 --> 00:20:01,580
The average age of our team
is probably mid-30s,
519
00:20:02,380 --> 00:20:06,200
which is actually relatively
young for most organizations.
520
00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:07,830
Yeah, that's just so interesting
because
521
00:20:07,830 --> 00:20:10,050
I know the industry’s struggling
with that as a whole too.
522
00:20:10,050 --> 00:20:13,640
Good on you
for making those connections.
523
00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:15,560
Well, a lot of people ask why
we do the podcast
524
00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:16,940
and why we have the social media
525
00:20:16,940 --> 00:20:19,230
that we have and the blogs
and all that stuff.
526
00:20:19,230 --> 00:20:20,970
A lot of it was for HR.
527
00:20:20,970 --> 00:20:23,040
You need to make agriculture
or primary producer
528
00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:24,280
farms feel like a place
529
00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:26,360
that somebody
wants to come back to and work,
530
00:20:26,360 --> 00:20:28,200
because if we're competing
against the bears
531
00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:30,700
and the retail side
of agribusiness,
532
00:20:30,700 --> 00:20:32,870
we're not really attractive
right now.
533
00:20:32,870 --> 00:20:34,970
And we're starting to see it
on social.
534
00:20:34,970 --> 00:20:36,770
You go on Instagram
and you see a lot of good Reels
535
00:20:36,770 --> 00:20:39,020
about new equipment
with some good music.
536
00:20:39,020 --> 00:20:41,280
We're starting to finally
market ourselves
537
00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:43,020
to that next generation,
538
00:20:43,020 --> 00:20:45,700
but we haven't done so
for a long time.
539
00:20:45,700 --> 00:20:48,020
We're behind the 8 ball now
and we need it.
540
00:20:48,020 --> 00:20:50,030
That's probably the biggest
thing for public relations
541
00:20:50,030 --> 00:20:52,310
of why we do
it —it’s the people side.
542
00:20:52,310 --> 00:20:54,460
We need to find really good
people to run our operation
543
00:20:54,460 --> 00:20:55,660
and continue growing
544
00:20:55,660 --> 00:20:57,890
whether that's on
the consulting side or the farm.
545
00:20:57,890 --> 00:20:59,490
And the best way for us to do it
546
00:20:59,490 --> 00:21:02,170
is to put some really
nice pictures up on a website.
547
00:21:02,170 --> 00:21:03,910
And it's funny,
we get both the positive
548
00:21:03,910 --> 00:21:05,990
and the negative side
of social media.
549
00:21:05,990 --> 00:21:07,820
A lot will say:
“Well, you're just showing off.”
550
00:21:07,820 --> 00:21:10,010
To tell you the truth,
we've had two or three
551
00:21:10,010 --> 00:21:11,830
from New Zealand come over.
And the reason they came over
552
00:21:11,830 --> 00:21:14,380
was because they saw
some of our farming videos
553
00:21:14,380 --> 00:21:15,770
or because
they went on our website
554
00:21:15,770 --> 00:21:18,410
and saw what we were doing,
and it interests them.
555
00:21:18,410 --> 00:21:20,190
If I was in a foreign country
and I wanted to come over,
556
00:21:20,190 --> 00:21:22,820
I'd want to see the coolest
operations I could see.
557
00:21:22,820 --> 00:21:24,850
It's never been done before
in agriculture
558
00:21:24,850 --> 00:21:26,940
so we tend to push back
quite a bit.
559
00:21:26,940 --> 00:21:29,270
It's our #1 HR.
We get resumes.
560
00:21:29,270 --> 00:21:32,200
We're not short on labour
on the farm 100%
561
00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:33,880
due to our public relations.
562
00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:36,890
We have our seven full-time guys
that we keep that are core.
563
00:21:36,890 --> 00:21:38,970
They live in the communities
around us
564
00:21:38,970 --> 00:21:41,750
and their kids play hockey
in the communities around us.
565
00:21:41,750 --> 00:21:43,440
That's our core focus,
566
00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:45,180
but it's great
for kids to come over
567
00:21:45,180 --> 00:21:46,420
and they want
to experience farming
568
00:21:46,420 --> 00:21:48,020
so
they can go back to New Zealand
569
00:21:48,020 --> 00:21:49,320
and do the same
thing back there.
570
00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:51,380
It's kind of a win
for both parties.
571
00:21:51,380 --> 00:21:53,070
What does the actual business
structure
572
00:21:53,070 --> 00:21:56,290
look like in terms
of human resources on the farm?
573
00:21:57,360 --> 00:21:59,570
I can use ours a bit as a bit
of an example.
574
00:21:59,570 --> 00:22:02,340
So Kristjan obviously put me
in charge of the finance side,
575
00:22:02,340 --> 00:22:04,170
so I've got a team under me:
576
00:22:04,170 --> 00:22:05,950
the bookkeepers,
the controllers,
577
00:22:05,950 --> 00:22:08,299
that side of the business
that I keep track of.
578
00:22:08,810 --> 00:22:11,060
It's my job to delegate
and educate
579
00:22:11,060 --> 00:22:12,590
and bring them up through it.
580
00:22:12,590 --> 00:22:14,380
On the other side,
the biggest role
581
00:22:14,380 --> 00:22:16,250
I think on the farm
that most miss out on
582
00:22:16,250 --> 00:22:19,520
is that COO role—the chief
operating officer.
583
00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:20,900
Jeff and I joke about it lots,
584
00:22:20,900 --> 00:22:23,460
but he is considerably more
important to the farm than I am,
585
00:22:23,460 --> 00:22:26,140
and it's just somebody who's
trained in HR, for starters.
586
00:22:26,140 --> 00:22:28,680
The worst skill on most farms,
and I'm not afraid to say it
587
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:31,620
because I was terrible at it
as a farmer, is HR.
588
00:22:31,620 --> 00:22:33,770
We didn't have to
learn it in school,
589
00:22:33,770 --> 00:22:35,710
and we honestly
don't have enough employees
590
00:22:35,710 --> 00:22:37,020
to get the experience factor,
591
00:22:37,020 --> 00:22:39,330
so HR on farms
is almost unheard of.
592
00:22:39,330 --> 00:22:41,830
By having a guy
like Jeff in place,
593
00:22:42,390 --> 00:22:45,150
he’d done HR on big scales
before for big companies,
594
00:22:45,660 --> 00:22:48,000
and it allowed him to come in
and create our team
595
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:50,370
so that there was communication,
because on lots of farms
596
00:22:50,370 --> 00:22:52,260
communication
is the biggest issue.
597
00:22:52,260 --> 00:22:54,410
We have weekly meetings.
We have monthly meetings.
598
00:22:54,410 --> 00:22:56,280
They're set up
to get as much transparency
599
00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:59,500
and as much goal setting
and vision pushed onto our team
600
00:22:59,500 --> 00:23:02,020
so that they feel like
they're part of something.
601
00:23:02,020 --> 00:23:04,890
And that COO role, it's not
just HR, but it's scheduling.
602
00:23:04,890 --> 00:23:07,120
It's having the right people
in the right spots.
603
00:23:07,120 --> 00:23:08,680
It is a full-time job
on our farm.
604
00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:09,950
When Jeff came across,
605
00:23:09,950 --> 00:23:12,560
we were only about
6 or 7 thousand acres, I think.
606
00:23:13,090 --> 00:23:14,610
It wasn't like we were
a big farm
607
00:23:14,610 --> 00:23:16,200
and then brought him in.
608
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:18,050
Kristjan brought him
in when we were growing
609
00:23:18,050 --> 00:23:19,250
because he knew one day
610
00:23:19,250 --> 00:23:21,900
we'd probably get to a size
that required his skills.
611
00:23:22,580 --> 00:23:24,680
And what it did is it allowed us
to grow under him,
612
00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:25,900
which allowed us
to have the team
613
00:23:25,900 --> 00:23:29,160
that we have today in place
for every step of growth.
614
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:31,350
A lot of farms grow first,
then throw people in.
615
00:23:31,350 --> 00:23:32,720
I see it on the industry side
616
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:34,670
and I've seen it fail
on the industry side.
617
00:23:34,670 --> 00:23:36,570
On the farming side,
it's going to do the same thing.
618
00:23:36,570 --> 00:23:40,110
For us, it was always let's find
really good people, hire them
619
00:23:40,110 --> 00:23:42,410
and then find the work,
because those farmers,
620
00:23:42,410 --> 00:23:44,110
we're really
good at finding work.
621
00:23:45,550 --> 00:23:49,130
So, as long as we had the HR
in place before the growth,
622
00:23:49,130 --> 00:23:50,940
the growth didn't really hurt,
623
00:23:50,940 --> 00:23:52,880
the hours didn't go past
a certain amount,
624
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,590
and guys weren't burned out,
we didn't lose employees
625
00:23:55,590 --> 00:23:57,440
because
we were growing too fast.
626
00:23:57,440 --> 00:23:58,940
It was solely based on the fact
627
00:23:58,940 --> 00:24:01,410
that we probably spent
a little more on labour
628
00:24:01,410 --> 00:24:03,530
than most farms
at a certain stage,
629
00:24:03,530 --> 00:24:05,440
but we had the team in place
when the growth came.
630
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:09,560
And I'm happy we did
because 14 to 40 in four years,
631
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:10,880
if we hadn't had
the right people,
632
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:13,470
that would have been
a very painful experience.
633
00:24:13,470 --> 00:24:16,540
That's 14,000 to 40,000 acres
in four years.
634
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:18,640
Yeah, that’s a big jump.
635
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,070
The whole HR aspect,
you can't escape it.
636
00:24:21,070 --> 00:24:22,440
I mean, you're dealing
with people,
637
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:26,990
you have to be able to make
good decisions on their behalf
638
00:24:26,990 --> 00:24:29,710
and communicate with them
and create an environment
639
00:24:29,710 --> 00:24:31,290
where they want
to stay and work,
640
00:24:31,290 --> 00:24:33,680
even if you're working
as a family, I'm assuming.
641
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,610
That was always the comical part
was when I start talking HR,
642
00:24:36,610 --> 00:24:38,740
I usually get the small
family farms tuning out.
643
00:24:38,740 --> 00:24:40,250
I always make the joke
when I'm public speaking
644
00:24:40,250 --> 00:24:43,480
that the small family farms
probably have the worst HR.
645
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,710
I have siblings and I and I
understand communication
646
00:24:46,710 --> 00:24:48,530
with family members
is considerably harder
647
00:24:48,530 --> 00:24:50,550
than communication
with third parties.
648
00:24:50,550 --> 00:24:53,070
When it came to communication,
we were quite business centred
649
00:24:53,070 --> 00:24:55,110
when we started.
We're on a family farm.
650
00:24:55,620 --> 00:24:58,140
Communication is usually
the first thing to go.
651
00:24:58,140 --> 00:25:00,350
And when it goes,
that's when emotion comes in.
652
00:25:00,350 --> 00:25:02,750
That's when you have
uncomfortable conversations,
653
00:25:02,750 --> 00:25:04,450
is when things
have already fallen apart.
654
00:25:04,450 --> 00:25:07,610
Where with us
it's a business conversation.
655
00:25:07,610 --> 00:25:09,440
[Are] there hurt feelings
once in a while?
656
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:10,920
Sure.
Kristjan and I were friends
657
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:13,050
long before
we were business partners.
658
00:25:13,050 --> 00:25:15,460
But you go home,
you probably stew for an hour
659
00:25:15,460 --> 00:25:16,960
and then you go to work
the next morning.
660
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:19,140
You're over it because
it's just a business discussion.
661
00:25:19,140 --> 00:25:21,390
When we're running
a multimillion-dollar business,
662
00:25:21,390 --> 00:25:23,189
those cannot be
emotional decisions.
663
00:25:24,170 --> 00:25:26,110
You don't have time
for mind reading.
664
00:25:26,110 --> 00:25:29,140
So we kind of touched
on multi-generational farms.
665
00:25:29,140 --> 00:25:32,240
Are there any other aspects
of how this CEO mindset
666
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:34,540
would work on
a multi-generational farm?
667
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:37,210
We got to remember
that we're still a business.
668
00:25:37,210 --> 00:25:40,590
When it comes to succession and
transition, it's all business.
669
00:25:40,590 --> 00:25:42,050
Even with the clients
that I work with,
670
00:25:42,050 --> 00:25:44,900
and they’re family farms,
bringing that next generation
671
00:25:44,900 --> 00:25:46,850
in and the older generation
moving out,
672
00:25:47,570 --> 00:25:49,230
there still [has]
to be an element of fairness.
673
00:25:49,230 --> 00:25:50,990
The older generation,
what do they have?
674
00:25:50,990 --> 00:25:54,430
They've got capital, they've got
money, they've got investment.
675
00:25:54,940 --> 00:25:56,570
But they're looking
to slow down on labour
676
00:25:56,570 --> 00:25:58,490
and some of
the management techniques.
677
00:25:58,490 --> 00:26:00,780
The younger generation,
they're not coming in
678
00:26:00,780 --> 00:26:03,600
with a whole bunch of money
or land or capital.
679
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:06,400
They're coming in
with time and brains,
680
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,100
so labour and management.
681
00:26:08,780 --> 00:26:10,560
On the compensation scale,
it's making sure
682
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,110
that everybody's fairly
compensated for everything
683
00:26:13,110 --> 00:26:14,320
that they're bringing in.
684
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:16,360
As the older generation
moves out,
685
00:26:16,360 --> 00:26:18,330
they might stop doing
anything on the farm
686
00:26:18,330 --> 00:26:20,170
altogether other than sitting
on a board.
687
00:26:20,170 --> 00:26:22,290
Well, that doesn't mean they're
not getting paid for their land
688
00:26:22,290 --> 00:26:23,630
and their equity still.
689
00:26:23,630 --> 00:26:25,930
What that does is that allows
them to leave it in the business
690
00:26:25,930 --> 00:26:28,170
rather than take it
and put it in the stock market
691
00:26:28,170 --> 00:26:30,400
which, honestly,
the return on a farm
692
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:32,080
as we've seen
in the last few years,
693
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:33,320
it's better than
the stock market.
694
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:35,240
And then the coming
in generation,
695
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:37,260
you have to get rid
of the expectations.
696
00:26:37,260 --> 00:26:39,500
You're coming in,
you're going to work hard
697
00:26:39,500 --> 00:26:40,970
and you're going to
get paid for it.
698
00:26:40,970 --> 00:26:42,270
You're going to try to take on
699
00:26:42,270 --> 00:26:45,330
as many decision-making
roles and responsibilities,
700
00:26:45,330 --> 00:26:46,900
and you're going
to get paid for that.
701
00:26:46,900 --> 00:26:48,110
Because those are
the two things
702
00:26:48,110 --> 00:26:50,140
that you are bringing to
the equation right now.
703
00:26:50,140 --> 00:26:51,860
As the years go on, obviously,
704
00:26:51,860 --> 00:26:53,320
you're going to take over
more of that role,
705
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:55,230
hopefully reinvest in land,
in capital.
706
00:26:55,230 --> 00:26:56,540
It comes down to making sure
707
00:26:56,540 --> 00:26:58,150
that everybody's
compensated fairly.
708
00:26:58,150 --> 00:26:59,690
If you make everything
at fair market value
709
00:26:59,690 --> 00:27:00,910
and pay everybody
710
00:27:00,910 --> 00:27:02,770
for what they're bringing
to the business,
711
00:27:02,770 --> 00:27:05,510
it's not a discussion anymore.
It's already fair.
712
00:27:05,510 --> 00:27:08,200
There is no sweat equity.
That's a term that I hate,
713
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:09,910
because if everything's done
at fair market value,
714
00:27:09,910 --> 00:27:11,110
there should be
no sweat equity.
715
00:27:11,110 --> 00:27:13,220
Because you've been paid
for everything you've done.
716
00:27:13,220 --> 00:27:14,850
That’s the big one for me,
717
00:27:14,850 --> 00:27:16,640
especially with family farms,
is making sure
718
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:18,930
that the compensation
is set up correctly,
719
00:27:18,930 --> 00:27:21,140
because that usually solves
a lot of the issues.
720
00:27:21,140 --> 00:27:23,280
And then back to the roles
and responsibilities,
721
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:24,530
that's number two.
722
00:27:24,530 --> 00:27:26,100
If you're stepping
on each other’s toes,
723
00:27:26,100 --> 00:27:27,330
it's never going to work.
724
00:27:27,330 --> 00:27:30,060
As long as everybody understands
what their role is.
725
00:27:30,060 --> 00:27:33,730
I've seen some family farms
be very successful just by that.
726
00:27:34,380 --> 00:27:36,900
Let's say you're working
with a farm that has had
727
00:27:36,900 --> 00:27:39,860
a significant amount
of sweat equity in the past.
728
00:27:39,860 --> 00:27:43,330
Is there a possibility
to go back and account for that?
729
00:27:43,860 --> 00:27:45,620
That sweat equity is
really hard to calculate.
730
00:27:45,620 --> 00:27:47,000
Just because you were there
731
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,580
doesn't mean
that you made money.
732
00:27:49,580 --> 00:27:51,430
When I speak, I ask that
question right at the start:
733
00:27:51,430 --> 00:27:53,400
“Which one made you more money
over the last 10 years?
734
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:55,180
Was it the real estate
or the farming?”
735
00:27:55,180 --> 00:27:57,550
Real estate has made
so much money for farms
736
00:27:57,550 --> 00:27:58,950
and for agriculture.
737
00:27:58,950 --> 00:28:01,160
That's usually where
the big wealth has been.
738
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:02,760
That means that the sweat equity
739
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:05,250
didn't really do anything
for land purchases.
740
00:28:05,250 --> 00:28:06,550
That was just based on farming.
741
00:28:06,550 --> 00:28:09,350
So it's a very hard number
to calculate.
742
00:28:10,170 --> 00:28:12,100
So, you're talking about
in terms of compensation
743
00:28:12,100 --> 00:28:13,840
at fair market value
744
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:15,800
and bringing in
the younger generation.
745
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:21,380
Would you suggest getting that
on paper, making a structure,
746
00:28:21,380 --> 00:28:23,410
making a progression,
setting up goals,
747
00:28:23,410 --> 00:28:25,830
and the evolution
of that person's role
748
00:28:25,830 --> 00:28:27,450
in the organization?
749
00:28:27,450 --> 00:28:29,030
We use what we call
an equity calculator.
750
00:28:29,030 --> 00:28:31,030
It takes the net income
of the farm every year.
751
00:28:31,030 --> 00:28:34,720
We break out what was a return
on equity of the shareholders
752
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:36,130
leaving in their money,
753
00:28:36,130 --> 00:28:37,730
what was land rent
to the shareholders
754
00:28:37,730 --> 00:28:39,000
for their personally held land
755
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,060
that they've given
to the operation,
756
00:28:41,060 --> 00:28:42,900
and then everything else below
that gets split
757
00:28:42,900 --> 00:28:45,340
based on a labour
and a management split.
758
00:28:45,340 --> 00:28:46,690
It's an annual conversation,
759
00:28:46,690 --> 00:28:48,000
so at the annual
general meeting,
760
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,140
we sit down with the whole
family in the room and we say:
761
00:28:51,140 --> 00:28:53,920
“What are the percentages?
So a father-son [operation],
762
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:55,410
who's doing what percentage
of management?
763
00:28:55,410 --> 00:28:56,780
How many roles
and responsibilities
764
00:28:56,780 --> 00:28:58,530
is each of you covering?”
765
00:28:58,530 --> 00:29:00,440
Then in terms of labour,
if they keep timesheets.
766
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:02,380
That's easy,
but lots of them don't.
767
00:29:02,380 --> 00:29:04,490
So, it's who's doing
what for percentage of labour.
768
00:29:04,490 --> 00:29:07,850
So is the son doing 16-hour days
and the dad’s doing eights?
769
00:29:07,850 --> 00:29:10,180
It becomes a family
discussion each year
770
00:29:10,870 --> 00:29:13,220
and the agreement
gets split based on that.
771
00:29:13,220 --> 00:29:14,940
And that's your compensation
for the year.
772
00:29:14,940 --> 00:29:16,640
It's in writing
and it's on paper,
773
00:29:17,150 --> 00:29:19,590
and every year you revisit it
because as we know,
774
00:29:19,590 --> 00:29:21,780
in agriculture,
a lot can change in a year.
775
00:29:21,780 --> 00:29:23,450
We’ll go over all of
last year's operations,
776
00:29:23,450 --> 00:29:25,950
all the key ratios, everything
about how the farm is doing
777
00:29:25,950 --> 00:29:27,670
and where it's sitting today.
778
00:29:27,670 --> 00:29:29,130
And then we'll do the planning
for next year,
779
00:29:29,130 --> 00:29:31,120
which is “what are the goals
for next year,
780
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:32,720
what's the compensation
set up”
781
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:34,070
so they can go into
their growing season
782
00:29:34,070 --> 00:29:35,570
without any question marks.
783
00:29:35,570 --> 00:29:37,280
Everything’s down on paper,
everything is signed,
784
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:38,890
and everybody knows
what the goal is.
785
00:29:38,890 --> 00:29:40,980
Lots of farms
have thought about it,
786
00:29:40,980 --> 00:29:43,730
very few have ever written it
down on a piece of paper.
787
00:29:44,550 --> 00:29:46,680
That's true, right? They have it
in the back of their mind.
788
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,180
It's amazing how just the act
of writing them down
789
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:53,570
has a huge impact on whether
or not you achieve them.
790
00:29:53,570 --> 00:29:56,720
The studies, like you said,
they are quite astonishing,
791
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,470
when you have goals.
That's just the number one step.
792
00:29:59,470 --> 00:30:00,940
But number two,
when you write them down –
793
00:30:00,940 --> 00:30:02,170
we do it quarterly.
794
00:30:02,170 --> 00:30:04,140
Every quarter we sit down
and we have a set of goals
795
00:30:04,140 --> 00:30:06,270
for that quarter
as a leadership group,
796
00:30:06,270 --> 00:30:08,030
and then as
our management group.
797
00:30:08,030 --> 00:30:10,879
What do we need to achieve
this quarter to be successful?
798
00:30:11,380 --> 00:30:15,100
We have that 10-year plan made,
so we break it down into 10-3-1,
799
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:19,400
because the 3s are based on what
we have to do to get to the 10s.
800
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:21,990
The 1 is based on what we have
to do to get to the 3s,
801
00:30:21,990 --> 00:30:24,620
and every quarter, how do we get
to those 1-year goals.
802
00:30:24,620 --> 00:30:26,080
The other thing it does
is it helps us
803
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:27,300
do our performance reviews,
804
00:30:27,300 --> 00:30:28,800
because everybody
in the operation
805
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:30,840
is in charge of a goal.
806
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:32,440
Honestly,
that's a really easy way to say
807
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:34,450
“Did we achieve or did we fail?”
808
00:30:34,450 --> 00:30:36,730
And do you find some resistance
to that?
809
00:30:36,730 --> 00:30:38,150
The interesting part is—and
810
00:30:38,150 --> 00:30:39,840
we run the EOS system
in the business,
811
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:41,990
so it's the Entrepreneurial
Operating System
812
00:30:41,990 --> 00:30:43,200
by Gino Wickman.
813
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:46,060
If you’ve ever read the book
Traction, it's based on that.
814
00:30:46,060 --> 00:30:48,100
I don't want someone
to get 100%.
815
00:30:48,100 --> 00:30:50,320
if you get 100%,
it tells me one thing:
816
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:51,910
you’re sandbagging your goals.
817
00:30:51,910 --> 00:30:54,560
If we can hit 80%
on our goals every quarter,
818
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:55,970
it means we're still
moving forward,
819
00:30:55,970 --> 00:30:58,510
but it also means that
we're setting hard enough goals
820
00:30:58,510 --> 00:31:00,450
that they're actually
pushing us.
821
00:31:00,450 --> 00:31:02,130
Going into seeding,
for example,
822
00:31:02,130 --> 00:31:03,670
we want to get the crop
in in 21 days,
823
00:31:03,670 --> 00:31:06,220
because we've shown in the past,
through yield maps
824
00:31:06,220 --> 00:31:08,290
and everything else,
that that's our window.
825
00:31:08,290 --> 00:31:09,960
Now do we hit it every year?
No.
826
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:12,490
Weather has a real
strong impact on that goal,
827
00:31:12,490 --> 00:31:14,860
but that doesn't mean that we
don't set that goal every year,
828
00:31:14,860 --> 00:31:17,709
because that's what we know
is most optimal for the farm.
829
00:31:18,330 --> 00:31:19,700
It sounds like the shift
in thinking
830
00:31:19,700 --> 00:31:23,180
also means having several
uncomfortable conversations.
831
00:31:23,180 --> 00:31:26,350
Do you have any advice on
navigating those conversations?
832
00:31:26,350 --> 00:31:28,700
I think it goes back
to my comments on emotion.
833
00:31:28,700 --> 00:31:31,750
When you're in the boardrooms,
it's a business discussion.
834
00:31:31,750 --> 00:31:33,480
And not to say that emotions
don't creep in,
835
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:34,800
because they always do.
836
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,150
Your family farms,
there's emotion involved,
837
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:39,750
but everybody's got to take
a breath and walk away.
838
00:31:39,750 --> 00:31:41,570
The decisions you're
making in those meetings,
839
00:31:41,570 --> 00:31:42,870
they're not
emotional decisions.
840
00:31:42,870 --> 00:31:44,950
They're literally about millions
and millions of dollars
841
00:31:44,950 --> 00:31:47,300
and how we're going to
strategize to make money
842
00:31:47,300 --> 00:31:49,350
so that we can
keep the lifestyle.
843
00:31:49,350 --> 00:31:51,390
The biggest one for me
is just making sure emotion
844
00:31:51,390 --> 00:31:53,030
doesn't come
into decision-making.
845
00:31:53,030 --> 00:31:55,990
That's number one.
The other one is just…
846
00:31:55,990 --> 00:31:57,960
We use a system called IDS.
847
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:00,050
It's Identify,
Discuss and Solve.
848
00:32:00,050 --> 00:32:02,320
There [are]
no massive issues on a farm.
849
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:05,790
There's a whole bunch of issues,
but they're all resolvable.
850
00:32:05,790 --> 00:32:07,770
Have your list of issues,
rank them
851
00:32:07,770 --> 00:32:09,410
“what do we have
to get through”,
852
00:32:09,410 --> 00:32:11,010
and just start
ticking them off.
853
00:32:11,850 --> 00:32:14,680
Maybe there's an employee
that's bothering everybody.
854
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:16,520
We discuss it and we solve.
855
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:18,670
The big thing with EOS
is that the “solve”
856
00:32:18,670 --> 00:32:21,350
doesn't have to be
the right decision all the time,
857
00:32:21,350 --> 00:32:23,480
because we're never
going to get them all right.
858
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:25,140
But you have to come
to a decision.
859
00:32:25,140 --> 00:32:26,740
You can't just leave
an issue sitting.
860
00:32:26,740 --> 00:32:27,990
We have these little issues
861
00:32:27,990 --> 00:32:30,140
and they start as what
we call brush fires.
862
00:32:30,710 --> 00:32:32,530
If you don't put them out,
a year later,
863
00:32:32,530 --> 00:32:35,530
it's been sitting there
and brewing for 365 days
864
00:32:35,530 --> 00:32:37,600
and all of a sudden
you get the blow-ups.
865
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:39,740
And it's like “that was an issue
a year ago,
866
00:32:39,740 --> 00:32:41,010
we could have solved that,
867
00:32:41,010 --> 00:32:42,970
and this would
have never happened.”
868
00:32:42,970 --> 00:32:45,590
There's usually a very
reasonable solution
869
00:32:45,590 --> 00:32:46,850
to everything,
870
00:32:46,850 --> 00:32:48,880
you just got to take
the time to sit down.
871
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:52,010
Do you have these
IDS conversations
872
00:32:52,010 --> 00:32:54,040
as part of your regular agenda?
873
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,190
How do you work that
into your operation?
874
00:32:56,980 --> 00:32:59,110
As the leadership group we meet
once a week
875
00:32:59,110 --> 00:33:01,010
for an hour
every Monday morning,
876
00:33:01,570 --> 00:33:04,100
and we have a set agenda
for each meeting.
877
00:33:04,100 --> 00:33:06,260
We have an hour,
and if it goes over the hour,
878
00:33:06,260 --> 00:33:07,780
we're moving it
to the next meeting.
879
00:33:07,780 --> 00:33:09,090
We start the meetings
with the positive.
880
00:33:09,090 --> 00:33:10,380
What went right
for the business
881
00:33:10,380 --> 00:33:12,410
and what went right personally
for the last week.
882
00:33:12,410 --> 00:33:13,610
Then we go through
our scorecard,
883
00:33:13,610 --> 00:33:15,970
which, as a leadership group,
we want to know every week.
884
00:33:15,970 --> 00:33:17,590
Whether that's cash flow,
885
00:33:17,590 --> 00:33:19,290
whether that's how much grain
we have contracted.
886
00:33:19,290 --> 00:33:21,260
There are just 15 main metrics,
887
00:33:21,260 --> 00:33:24,420
and we have to know every week
in order to be good leaders.
888
00:33:24,420 --> 00:33:28,020
Then we go into headlines.
I'm 4 hours away from the farm.
889
00:33:28,020 --> 00:33:30,940
What's happened in the last week
that I might need to know about?
890
00:33:30,940 --> 00:33:32,360
Maybe it's industry-wise:
891
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:33,840
“Did canola or wheat
go on a run?”
892
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:35,480
because I'm not watching
the markets every day.
893
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:37,990
So it helps me be better
at my consulting
894
00:33:37,990 --> 00:33:40,060
if I get the updates
from the farm.
895
00:33:41,330 --> 00:33:44,270
Then we go into rocks,
which is our goals.
896
00:33:44,270 --> 00:33:45,500
Are we achieving them?
897
00:33:45,500 --> 00:33:47,980
Do we need help each week
just to stay accountable?
898
00:33:47,980 --> 00:33:49,920
Because if you don't ever
talk about them,
899
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:51,550
you don't actually
achieve them.
900
00:33:51,550 --> 00:33:54,090
And then the last one is IDS.
Usually you leave half an hour
901
00:33:54,090 --> 00:33:56,310
and if we take more
than 10 minutes,
902
00:33:56,310 --> 00:33:58,140
it was probably a big day.
903
00:33:58,140 --> 00:34:01,140
And what are the brush fires
that we need to stop right now?
904
00:34:01,710 --> 00:34:03,900
Lots of them are HR related
because as you said,
905
00:34:03,900 --> 00:34:06,640
people on farms
is usually the big ones.
906
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:08,200
But maybe it's as simple as
907
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:10,300
“there's a TPA for canola
for the fall
908
00:34:10,300 --> 00:34:12,130
and it's going to hit.
Do we want that number?”
909
00:34:12,130 --> 00:34:13,880
That's an issue
because not all of us
910
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:16,460
have heard about it
or had the discussion.
911
00:34:16,460 --> 00:34:18,500
So it's a 30 second solve.
Yes or no.
912
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:21,110
It's that list of issues
that we find
913
00:34:21,110 --> 00:34:24,090
really gets rid of anything that
might fester and become big.
914
00:34:24,090 --> 00:34:26,410
So then when you get
your annual general meetings,
915
00:34:26,410 --> 00:34:27,980
if every issue
is already solved,
916
00:34:27,980 --> 00:34:29,879
those meetings
aren't really that bad.
917
00:34:30,810 --> 00:34:33,500
You've coached many farmers.
What are some of the “aha”
918
00:34:33,500 --> 00:34:35,170
moments
that they've experienced?
919
00:34:35,170 --> 00:34:38,070
I know you talked about time
and work-life balance,
920
00:34:38,070 --> 00:34:40,030
but are there other ones
that you've noticed
921
00:34:40,030 --> 00:34:41,590
when you've worked with them?
922
00:34:41,590 --> 00:34:43,840
As you said, the “aha” moment
of work-life balance
923
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:45,740
and hiring the right people.
924
00:34:45,740 --> 00:34:47,420
But you start getting into
some of the other stuff
925
00:34:47,420 --> 00:34:48,660
on the financial side.
926
00:34:48,660 --> 00:34:50,100
They meet with their accountants
once a year,
927
00:34:50,100 --> 00:34:51,540
they meet with their bankers.
928
00:34:51,540 --> 00:34:53,600
They have the discussions,
but they don't really know
929
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:56,810
what they're actually talking
about as a big picture item.
930
00:34:56,810 --> 00:34:58,540
Once we start going through
some of those metrics
931
00:34:58,540 --> 00:35:01,630
and then we take the finances
down, even to the drill size:
932
00:35:01,630 --> 00:35:03,600
How many acres per foot
are you doing with the drill?
933
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:06,260
When you get into benchmarking,
a lot of farms believe
934
00:35:06,260 --> 00:35:08,390
they're doing very well,
but that's because
935
00:35:08,390 --> 00:35:10,490
they've never actually
compared to anybody else.
936
00:35:10,490 --> 00:35:12,220
Maybe there's a reason
somebody's doing better
937
00:35:12,220 --> 00:35:13,450
than somebody else.
938
00:35:13,450 --> 00:35:16,270
The aha moments just come
from having discussions
939
00:35:16,270 --> 00:35:17,710
openly among a group.
940
00:35:17,710 --> 00:35:19,180
And that was the part
of the coaching
941
00:35:19,180 --> 00:35:22,130
that I think is the hardest
for a lot of farms.
942
00:35:22,130 --> 00:35:24,360
We have a lot of introverts
in the industry.
943
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:26,560
When you put them in a room
and you force them to stand up
944
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:28,030
and have those discussions
out loud,
945
00:35:28,030 --> 00:35:29,920
it makes a lot of people
uncomfortable,
946
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:32,630
but it also reinforces
those conversations
947
00:35:32,630 --> 00:35:36,190
and gives you positivity back,
it gives you ideas.
948
00:35:36,190 --> 00:35:37,800
We always have the first night
of the sessions
949
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:39,790
and we go out
for supper afterwards.
950
00:35:39,790 --> 00:35:42,260
The first time I probably stayed
till 9:00 or 10:00
951
00:35:42,260 --> 00:35:43,730
and was in all
the conversations.
952
00:35:43,730 --> 00:35:46,690
And then after that,
I'd probably leave at 5:30-6:00
953
00:35:46,690 --> 00:35:48,210
because they're having
their own conversations.
954
00:35:48,210 --> 00:35:51,070
I'm not required there anymore.
It's that side of it,
955
00:35:51,070 --> 00:35:53,080
the aha moment
that you're a big peer group,
956
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:54,770
but at the same time,
there's a whole bunch
957
00:35:54,770 --> 00:35:56,270
of coaching
and mentoring going on,
958
00:35:56,270 --> 00:35:58,300
and they get more comfortable
with each other.
959
00:35:58,300 --> 00:36:00,350
We're showing guys
a whole bunch of stuff
960
00:36:00,350 --> 00:36:02,480
and obviously we're
a larger scale operation,
961
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:04,440
but we've made
a lot of mistakes.
962
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:06,640
We get to show them those
mistakes before they make them,
963
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:08,390
so if they're trying to grow
964
00:36:08,390 --> 00:36:11,520
or they're trying to progress,
we're giving them a road map.
965
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:13,140
Here's what we did
and it didn't work.
966
00:36:13,140 --> 00:36:14,360
Not saying it's going
to affect you,
967
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:16,580
but these are some
pretty good mistakes
968
00:36:16,580 --> 00:36:19,260
to avoid that might lower
some of your pain points.
969
00:36:19,930 --> 00:36:23,040
You've talked about the impact
that a successful
970
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:25,670
farming business
will have on the local community
971
00:36:25,670 --> 00:36:27,530
in terms
of employment generation
972
00:36:27,530 --> 00:36:29,250
and in terms of giving back,
973
00:36:29,250 --> 00:36:34,040
that's an important aspect of
the whole enterprise structure.
974
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:35,680
What kind of advice
you would have to give
975
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:37,280
to producers about that?
976
00:36:37,890 --> 00:36:40,270
For us, the biggest issues
in agriculture
977
00:36:40,270 --> 00:36:41,910
are government policy
is number one,
978
00:36:41,910 --> 00:36:43,870
because I've got
no control over it.
979
00:36:43,870 --> 00:36:45,810
And then number two
is community demographics.
980
00:36:45,810 --> 00:36:47,090
Throughout the busy season,
981
00:36:47,090 --> 00:36:49,639
we can have as many as 25
to 30 people at the farm.
982
00:36:50,420 --> 00:36:52,150
That's a lot of people
for a small town
983
00:36:52,150 --> 00:36:53,900
in southeast Saskatchewan.
984
00:36:53,900 --> 00:36:55,840
How do we keep
our community vibrant
985
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:58,300
so that there are people?
Because without people,
986
00:36:58,300 --> 00:37:01,180
it doesn't matter if you're
farming up north or down south.
987
00:37:01,180 --> 00:37:03,030
If you don't have people,
and it doesn't matter
988
00:37:03,030 --> 00:37:05,780
if you're a small family farm
or a bigger farm,
989
00:37:05,780 --> 00:37:07,410
the next generation
is not going to stick around
990
00:37:07,410 --> 00:37:09,590
if the community's got no rink,
no school
991
00:37:10,130 --> 00:37:13,440
and nothing for them to do.
We want agriculture as a whole,
992
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:16,890
whether it's family farms
or bigger farms, to succeed.
993
00:37:16,890 --> 00:37:19,300
We need the communities
around us to succeed.
994
00:37:19,300 --> 00:37:21,740
Most of our employees,
as I said, are 30 to 40.
995
00:37:22,260 --> 00:37:24,370
They've all got kids
that play sports.
996
00:37:24,370 --> 00:37:26,820
They've all got kids
that are in the schools.
997
00:37:26,820 --> 00:37:29,820
So, giving back to those things
keeps them in our community.
998
00:37:30,330 --> 00:37:31,550
We have to drive an hour
and a half
999
00:37:31,550 --> 00:37:34,060
to have a AA hockey team
for some of our employees.
1000
00:37:34,060 --> 00:37:36,420
It sounds stupid, but we've had
to have the discussions
1001
00:37:36,420 --> 00:37:38,170
on what happens
if that team's not there
1002
00:37:38,170 --> 00:37:39,370
and they have to move away
1003
00:37:39,370 --> 00:37:42,020
because their kids want to play
somewhere else.
1004
00:37:42,020 --> 00:37:43,790
And it sounds ridiculous
that you leave a job
1005
00:37:43,790 --> 00:37:46,800
for a kid playing hockey,
but, that's what it is.
1006
00:37:48,130 --> 00:37:49,640
For us, it's how do we start
1007
00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:50,910
bringing some of
those organizations
1008
00:37:50,910 --> 00:37:53,680
back into Moosomin and back
into the surrounding towns
1009
00:37:54,500 --> 00:37:55,730
to keep the communities vibrant
1010
00:37:55,730 --> 00:37:57,470
so that we always
have employees.
1011
00:37:57,470 --> 00:37:58,810
Because the labour market,
as we know,
1012
00:37:58,810 --> 00:38:00,170
is in a bad spot right now
1013
00:38:00,170 --> 00:38:02,620
and especially
in primary producer agriculture.
1014
00:38:02,620 --> 00:38:05,350
It gets even worse if we just
keep killing small communities
1015
00:38:05,350 --> 00:38:07,070
and not having resources.
1016
00:38:07,070 --> 00:38:09,560
Yeah, I would argue that
these small communities
1017
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:10,830
need these farms too,
1018
00:38:10,830 --> 00:38:13,910
to provide the people,
provide the funding
1019
00:38:13,910 --> 00:38:16,350
and the donations
for these different sports,
1020
00:38:16,350 --> 00:38:18,450
provide the volunteers
for coaching
1021
00:38:18,450 --> 00:38:20,840
and for the local
school councils
1022
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:25,060
and the millions of community
groups that need to be running
1023
00:38:25,060 --> 00:38:26,780
so that the community
stays vibrant.
1024
00:38:26,780 --> 00:38:28,870
So I would argue too
that the communities
1025
00:38:28,870 --> 00:38:31,150
depend on successful farms.
1026
00:38:31,150 --> 00:38:35,250
At last year's summer event,
we had 40 to 50 adults
1027
00:38:35,250 --> 00:38:37,340
and probably 30 to 40 kids.
1028
00:38:37,340 --> 00:38:39,710
So from just
our operation alone,
1029
00:38:39,710 --> 00:38:41,840
there are about 80 to 90 people
that live
1030
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:44,560
in the surrounding communities
just on our farm team.
1031
00:38:45,290 --> 00:38:47,330
And we're one farm of hundreds
and hundreds
1032
00:38:47,330 --> 00:38:48,530
around those communities,
1033
00:38:48,530 --> 00:38:51,600
so agriculture is
the primary industry
1034
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:53,170
around these communities.
1035
00:38:53,170 --> 00:38:54,650
We have to make sure
we give back
1036
00:38:54,650 --> 00:38:56,690
to keep those communities
where they are.
1037
00:38:56,690 --> 00:38:59,580
We are pertinent to them.
But at the same time,
1038
00:38:59,580 --> 00:39:01,760
they're also
very important to us.
1039
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:03,790
Was there anything that you
wanted to talk about
1040
00:39:03,790 --> 00:39:07,770
that you want our listeners
to consider their next moves?
1041
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:10,110
In agriculture, we've always had
that line
1042
00:39:10,110 --> 00:39:11,759
“It's always been
done this way.”
1043
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:14,140
It's one of the most
dangerous lines
1044
00:39:14,140 --> 00:39:16,590
because I agree
that we need to respect
1045
00:39:16,590 --> 00:39:18,130
what's been done in the past,
1046
00:39:18,130 --> 00:39:20,370
but we're also in
a different generation now.
1047
00:39:20,370 --> 00:39:21,780
With land equity where it is,
1048
00:39:21,780 --> 00:39:23,230
where the financials
where it is,
1049
00:39:23,230 --> 00:39:25,810
every decision we make today
is a million-dollar decision.
1050
00:39:25,810 --> 00:39:27,360
It doesn’t matter
what size farm you're on,
1051
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:28,560
a million-dollar tractor
1052
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:31,260
is still a million-dollar
tractor on any size of farm.
1053
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:35,270
We need to make sure
that we're taking these mindsets
1054
00:39:35,270 --> 00:39:38,050
and this business shift
a little more seriously
1055
00:39:38,050 --> 00:39:40,149
because it's always
been pushed back upon,
1056
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:42,210
and it's becoming more
and more important.
1057
00:39:42,210 --> 00:39:44,100
With how many people we have
coming through the coaching
1058
00:39:44,100 --> 00:39:45,940
and through our consulting
and everything else
1059
00:39:45,940 --> 00:39:47,860
and the [number]
of questions I get asked,
1060
00:39:47,860 --> 00:39:49,200
it's becoming more important
1061
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:51,380
because we can push back
as much as we want,
1062
00:39:51,380 --> 00:39:52,930
the industry is going
to move forward
1063
00:39:52,930 --> 00:39:54,630
whether you want it to or not.
1064
00:39:54,630 --> 00:39:57,250
What excites you about
Canadian agriculture?
1065
00:39:57,250 --> 00:39:59,010
The biggest one is
the speed of change.
1066
00:39:59,010 --> 00:40:00,510
I can remember
when I was a kid
1067
00:40:00,510 --> 00:40:04,490
and probably a decade ago
things changed, but not a lot.
1068
00:40:04,490 --> 00:40:09,370
And now in the last decade,
I have seen farms become things
1069
00:40:09,370 --> 00:40:10,850
that I never thought
was possible,
1070
00:40:10,850 --> 00:40:13,360
whether it's technology,
whether it's data,
1071
00:40:13,870 --> 00:40:16,490
whether it's just the mindsets
of the farms today.
1072
00:40:17,140 --> 00:40:19,170
We're starting to see
something special in agriculture
1073
00:40:19,170 --> 00:40:21,860
and we're starting to adapt
to the speed of change.
1074
00:40:21,860 --> 00:40:23,290
It almost feels like
the Wizard of Oz.
1075
00:40:23,290 --> 00:40:25,040
We're not in Kansas
anymore, right?
1076
00:40:26,410 --> 00:40:28,190
I'm excited
for the next generation.
1077
00:40:28,190 --> 00:40:30,040
I'm seeing
the next set of farmers
1078
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:32,460
that are coming up
and they love technology
1079
00:40:32,460 --> 00:40:34,560
and they don't want to be
the same as the past
1080
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:36,140
and I've had
lots of conversations.
1081
00:40:36,140 --> 00:40:37,490
I do speaking for FCC.
1082
00:40:37,490 --> 00:40:39,750
At their Young Farmer Summits,
I'm almost excited
1083
00:40:39,750 --> 00:40:41,780
because they don't want
to be the same.
1084
00:40:41,780 --> 00:40:43,390
They're looking
just to be different,
1085
00:40:43,390 --> 00:40:45,170
and that's what agriculture
has been missing.
1086
00:40:45,170 --> 00:40:47,690
We've realized there was
a secret sauce of how we do it
1087
00:40:47,690 --> 00:40:49,070
and everybody kind of did it.
1088
00:40:49,070 --> 00:40:52,020
And now all of a sudden we're
starting to get some new ideas,
1089
00:40:52,020 --> 00:40:53,890
and new ideas lead
to new technologies
1090
00:40:53,890 --> 00:40:56,210
and new innovations
and just change.
1091
00:40:56,210 --> 00:40:59,480
So for me, even from
when I started farming to today,
1092
00:41:00,140 --> 00:41:01,740
it's not the same ball game.
1093
00:41:02,750 --> 00:41:04,610
Everybody's recipe is
a little bit different now.
1094
00:41:04,610 --> 00:41:06,280
You don't have to follow
the same formula
1095
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:07,940
for every single farm,
1096
00:41:07,940 --> 00:41:09,820
and that really
makes it exciting.
1097
00:41:09,820 --> 00:41:13,490
People can pursue their
interests and their passions
1098
00:41:13,490 --> 00:41:15,700
and still have
something successful.
1099
00:41:15,700 --> 00:41:17,970
And success is independent
in each farm.
1100
00:41:17,970 --> 00:41:19,400
Not everybody wants to grow.
1101
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:21,030
Some want to be
pedigreed seed owners
1102
00:41:21,030 --> 00:41:22,600
or some want to run a retail
1103
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:24,740
or some want to focus
on the technology side.
1104
00:41:24,740 --> 00:41:28,050
It's quite interesting to see
the diversification happening.
1105
00:41:28,050 --> 00:41:29,860
No farm has the same goals.
1106
00:41:29,860 --> 00:41:32,890
When you see the 10-year goals
of everybody at Farmer Coach,
1107
00:41:32,890 --> 00:41:35,420
they're not the same
and that's a good thing.
1108
00:41:35,420 --> 00:41:37,090
In the past, I think
they've always been the same:
1109
00:41:37,090 --> 00:41:39,300
“I want to grow acres,
I want to get bigger.”
1110
00:41:39,300 --> 00:41:42,180
That's not what's happening.
And there's lots that do,
1111
00:41:42,180 --> 00:41:44,220
but there's also lots
that want to be different,
1112
00:41:44,220 --> 00:41:45,600
and that's awesome.
1113
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:46,850
Well, thank you so much
for this.
1114
00:41:46,850 --> 00:41:48,440
I really enjoyed
our conversation
1115
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:51,660
and I'm sure I'm going to end
this call
1116
00:41:51,660 --> 00:41:53,820
with a million other questions
that I could have asked you,
1117
00:41:53,820 --> 00:41:56,040
but we'll have to save that
for another time.
1118
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:57,640
That's good. I enjoyed it.
1119
00:41:58,570 --> 00:42:00,490
What an amazing conversation
I had with Evan.
1120
00:42:00,490 --> 00:42:01,860
Like Evan said,
1121
00:42:01,860 --> 00:42:04,400
farming certainly has changed
in the last decade,
1122
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:05,810
and having a CEO mindset
1123
00:42:05,810 --> 00:42:07,170
combined with
the proper procedures,
1124
00:42:07,170 --> 00:42:09,420
people and processes
could be your next step
1125
00:42:09,420 --> 00:42:11,210
to making the farm
a self-sufficient
1126
00:42:11,210 --> 00:42:14,010
and sustainable business.
So how do we make that happen?
1127
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:16,920
That shift in mindset
can be difficult,
1128
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:18,700
especially as
a generation shift,
1129
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:21,430
but it starts with
effective conversations.
1130
00:42:22,170 --> 00:42:24,990
Whether a team member
is stepping up or stepping back,
1131
00:42:24,990 --> 00:42:26,330
be clear about their roles
1132
00:42:26,330 --> 00:42:28,940
and the goals that
everyone wants to reach,
1133
00:42:28,940 --> 00:42:30,589
either individually
or as a team.
1134
00:42:31,240 --> 00:42:34,270
For those taking a step back,
this new mindset is different,
1135
00:42:34,270 --> 00:42:36,600
but their goals can fit into
what they want their lifestyle
1136
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:38,310
and retirement to look like.
1137
00:42:38,310 --> 00:42:40,650
You don't have to be in a
boardroom if you don't want to,
1138
00:42:40,650 --> 00:42:43,050
but you can if you do.
The choice is yours.
1139
00:42:44,110 --> 00:42:45,890
For the new
or evolving team members,
1140
00:42:45,890 --> 00:42:47,570
be clear about the value
that each partner
1141
00:42:47,570 --> 00:42:49,260
brings to that boardroom table,
1142
00:42:49,260 --> 00:42:51,450
how they're going to be
compensated for their talent,
1143
00:42:51,450 --> 00:42:53,980
and be clear about
the logistics of the operation.
1144
00:42:53,980 --> 00:42:57,130
Things like meeting expectations
and decision-making.
1145
00:42:57,130 --> 00:42:58,500
Learn how to separate emotion
1146
00:42:58,500 --> 00:43:00,870
from those million-dollar
business decisions.
1147
00:43:00,870 --> 00:43:02,270
But when it does get tough,
1148
00:43:02,270 --> 00:43:04,490
don't let those bushfires
rage into blowouts
1149
00:43:04,490 --> 00:43:05,980
that could have been avoided.
1150
00:43:05,980 --> 00:43:09,260
No issues are so massive that
there isn't a viable solution.
1151
00:43:09,810 --> 00:43:11,950
The numerous challenges
within the industry
1152
00:43:11,950 --> 00:43:13,950
should not take away
from all the exciting things
1153
00:43:13,950 --> 00:43:15,150
that are happening,
1154
00:43:15,150 --> 00:43:17,500
especially as the next
generation takes the reins
1155
00:43:17,500 --> 00:43:18,710
and finds new innovations
1156
00:43:18,710 --> 00:43:21,220
and ideas to keep
the industry moving forward.
1157
00:43:25,110 --> 00:43:28,490
Thanks for listening to this
first episode of season four.
1158
00:43:28,490 --> 00:43:30,820
We hope you were able
to take away some considerations
1159
00:43:30,820 --> 00:43:34,100
for how you can apply a CEO
mindset to your own operation,
1160
00:43:34,780 --> 00:43:36,580
or if you work with farmers,
1161
00:43:36,580 --> 00:43:39,370
what your role in the shifting
perspective might look like.
1162
00:43:39,370 --> 00:43:40,820
Check the show notes
of this episode
1163
00:43:40,820 --> 00:43:42,840
for further reading
and resources
1164
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:44,440
related to our discussion.
1165
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:46,550
If this episode resonated
with you,
1166
00:43:46,550 --> 00:43:49,640
be sure to like, subscribe,
and share with your friends.
1167
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:52,320
And if you're so inclined,
go ahead and leave us a comment.
1168
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:53,650
Your feedback
helps us figure out
1169
00:43:53,650 --> 00:43:55,760
what's valuable to you
as a listener.
1170
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:04,520
This podcast has been
brought to you by AgExpert
1171
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:05,840
– Farm Management
software designed
1172
00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:08,930
for Canadian agriculture.
Learn more at agexpert.ca.
1173
00:44:09,950 --> 00:44:12,250
The FCC Knowledge Podcast
is a Farm Credit
1174
00:44:12,250 --> 00:44:14,120
Canada production
in collaboration
1175
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:15,720
with Roman Empire
Studios.
00:00:02,050 --> 00:00:05,470
From AgExpert, it's the FCC
Knowledge Podcast,
2
00:00:05,470 --> 00:00:07,920
a show that features real
Canadians in agriculture,
3
00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:10,060
real stories
and real good conversations
4
00:00:10,060 --> 00:00:13,210
about the business of farming.
I'm your host, Aimée Stang.
5
00:00:15,770 --> 00:00:17,920
It's not that they don't want
the next generation to come in
6
00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:20,070
and start taking tasks
off their plate
7
00:00:20,070 --> 00:00:21,869
and start making
their lives easier.
8
00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:24,530
They just don't want
to lose that purpose.
9
00:00:26,850 --> 00:00:31,420
Hello, and welcome to our first
episode of season 4 of the FCC
10
00:00:31,420 --> 00:00:33,060
Knowledge Podcast.
11
00:00:33,060 --> 00:00:35,860
In this episode,
we're chatting with Evan Shout.
12
00:00:35,860 --> 00:00:38,500
Growing up as a farm kid
in central Saskatchewan,
13
00:00:38,500 --> 00:00:40,490
Evan’s path to the farm
and back again
14
00:00:40,490 --> 00:00:41,940
wasn't your typical journey,
15
00:00:41,940 --> 00:00:44,039
and he didn't land
in a typical farm role.
16
00:00:44,550 --> 00:00:46,840
Today, Evan is not only a CPA,
17
00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:49,200
but also the Chief Financial
Officer of Hebert Grain
18
00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:51,530
Ventures, which at the time
of this recording
19
00:00:51,530 --> 00:00:53,040
is a 40,000-acre grain
20
00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:56,110
and oilseed operation located
in Moosomin, Saskatchewan.
21
00:00:57,080 --> 00:00:59,180
He performs his role
from his Saskatoon office
22
00:00:59,180 --> 00:01:01,140
over 400 kilometres
from the farm.
23
00:01:01,140 --> 00:01:04,090
Evan is also a consultant,
business coach and speaker,
24
00:01:04,090 --> 00:01:05,620
through Hebert Group's
Consulting
25
00:01:05,620 --> 00:01:08,490
and Financial Management
division, Maverick Ag.
26
00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:14,110
Welcome to the podcast, Evan.
27
00:01:14,110 --> 00:01:17,159
Why don't you start telling us
how you got doing what you do?
28
00:01:17,670 --> 00:01:19,270
It's a long story.
29
00:01:20,010 --> 00:01:23,210
So I guess I grew up a farm kid,
just like most of us did,
30
00:01:23,210 --> 00:01:25,930
and loved the life,
loved everything about it.
31
00:01:25,930 --> 00:01:28,310
Back then, there wasn't
really money in farming.
32
00:01:28,310 --> 00:01:30,130
So Dad kind of gave me
the little push
33
00:01:30,130 --> 00:01:31,790
and said go get an education.
34
00:01:31,790 --> 00:01:33,610
So I ended up getting
my accounting degree
35
00:01:33,610 --> 00:01:35,660
from the University
of Saskatchewan,
36
00:01:35,660 --> 00:01:37,670
then went on to my CPA
and then started
37
00:01:38,190 --> 00:01:41,100
a public accounting job
with MNP in Saskatoon.
38
00:01:41,100 --> 00:01:43,530
Now at the same time,
I also had the bug,
39
00:01:43,530 --> 00:01:46,629
so I ended up back at the farm
even though there was no money.
40
00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:50,310
And I did that for about
10 years off and on.
41
00:01:50,310 --> 00:01:52,210
I went busy season
to busy season
42
00:01:52,210 --> 00:01:54,190
until obviously my wife said,
43
00:01:54,190 --> 00:01:55,640
“You know what,
I'd like to see you
44
00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:58,040
a little more once in a while
during the year.”
45
00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:02,990
So I left public accounting
in 2010, went farming full time,
46
00:02:02,990 --> 00:02:06,870
and in 2014 we had our
first child and he has autism.
47
00:02:06,870 --> 00:02:10,490
So we moved back to Saskatoon,
I went back to MNP
48
00:02:10,490 --> 00:02:13,320
and I thought that's where
the journey would end.
49
00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:15,750
And then in 2019,
a very close friend of mine,
50
00:02:15,750 --> 00:02:18,120
Kristjan Hebert,
gave me a bit of a job offer
51
00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:20,340
on his large-scale
grain operation,
52
00:02:20,340 --> 00:02:22,930
and I decided to take
the path less travelled.
53
00:02:22,930 --> 00:02:25,130
And so I ended up
the Chief Financial Officer
54
00:02:25,130 --> 00:02:26,780
at Hebert Grain Ventures
in 2019.
55
00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:30,350
I'm just going to jump into
that whole aspect of you
56
00:02:30,350 --> 00:02:33,100
getting hired as a CFO on a farm
57
00:02:33,100 --> 00:02:35,380
because that's not
very common, right?
58
00:02:35,380 --> 00:02:37,690
And what was the thought
process to get there?
59
00:02:38,860 --> 00:02:40,550
What was Kristjan's mindset,
I guess?
60
00:02:40,550 --> 00:02:41,920
There's probably
a couple of things.
61
00:02:41,920 --> 00:02:44,810
So first he attended TEPAP,
which is the Texas
62
00:02:44,810 --> 00:02:49,990
A&M Executive Program
for Producers, back in 2016-17,
63
00:02:49,990 --> 00:02:52,340
somewhere in there.
It was just about building
64
00:02:52,340 --> 00:02:54,700
that business mindset
around agriculture.
65
00:02:54,700 --> 00:02:56,810
How you make the farm
more of a business.
66
00:02:56,810 --> 00:02:59,580
As the farm grew,
I think he just came to believe
67
00:02:59,580 --> 00:03:01,700
that he couldn't do
everything himself,
68
00:03:01,700 --> 00:03:03,140
so I got hired more or less
69
00:03:03,140 --> 00:03:04,820
to just take a few tasks
off his plate
70
00:03:04,820 --> 00:03:06,160
so that he could concentrate
71
00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:09,250
on some of the bigger
impact items such as growth.
72
00:03:09,250 --> 00:03:11,770
When I joined, the farm
was just over 14,000 acres
73
00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:14,730
and we planted 41,000 this year.
74
00:03:14,730 --> 00:03:17,330
So the growth trajectory
didn't really slow down.
75
00:03:17,330 --> 00:03:19,210
Part of it was he brought on
a whole bunch of people,
76
00:03:19,210 --> 00:03:21,690
including myself,
to just take the roles
77
00:03:21,690 --> 00:03:23,830
that he either
wasn't interested in,
78
00:03:23,830 --> 00:03:26,010
or honestly, that he just wanted
somebody else
79
00:03:26,010 --> 00:03:27,630
with some experience to take on.
80
00:03:27,630 --> 00:03:29,420
You do some consulting
on the side too, right?
81
00:03:29,420 --> 00:03:33,150
Or is it kind of a separate
entity from the business?
82
00:03:33,150 --> 00:03:35,050
So, it's under the umbrella
Hebert Group,
83
00:03:35,050 --> 00:03:38,230
which after that first year
we realized that the CFO role,
84
00:03:38,230 --> 00:03:40,220
even though it did take
a lot of my time,
85
00:03:40,220 --> 00:03:42,200
it wasn't everything.
And honestly,
86
00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:45,070
once we had processes set up
and people underneath me,
87
00:03:45,070 --> 00:03:47,930
I could delegate a whole bunch
of those tasks as well.
88
00:03:47,930 --> 00:03:49,480
We got a whole bunch
of free time.
89
00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:51,190
What are we good at?
Consulting.
90
00:03:51,190 --> 00:03:53,700
Financial consulting,
operational consulting.
91
00:03:53,700 --> 00:03:55,080
So we started Maverick Ag
92
00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:57,800
in I guess
it would have been 2019–2020.
93
00:03:58,420 --> 00:04:00,960
A few of my clients
from MNP came over,
94
00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:03,080
and I just started doing
internal CFO work.
95
00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:04,540
It was just more or less
96
00:04:04,540 --> 00:04:07,010
taking that financial burden
off producers
97
00:04:07,010 --> 00:04:08,800
so that they didn't have
to worry about it,
98
00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:11,190
making sure that they had the
right numbers in front of them,
99
00:04:11,190 --> 00:04:14,560
dealing with the banks,
coming up with capital plans.
100
00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:17,460
I just went into their business
almost as another employee
101
00:04:18,100 --> 00:04:19,550
and just offered those services.
102
00:04:19,550 --> 00:04:21,970
That was kind of
where Maverick started.
103
00:04:21,970 --> 00:04:24,560
That probably brings
a lot of perspective
104
00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:28,230
in terms of learning from
other farm businesses, right?
105
00:04:28,230 --> 00:04:29,940
We're big believers in data.
106
00:04:29,940 --> 00:04:31,960
The more data
we can have come through,
107
00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:33,460
the better it is
for not only Maverick,
108
00:04:33,460 --> 00:04:35,660
but for the farm as well.
Whether it's equipment data,
109
00:04:35,660 --> 00:04:37,740
whether it's financial data,
even networks,
110
00:04:37,740 --> 00:04:40,490
these farms had a whole bunch
of networks outside of ours.
111
00:04:40,490 --> 00:04:42,830
It just allowed me
to have more networks,
112
00:04:43,420 --> 00:04:45,850
which then turned around
and we used it on our farm.
113
00:04:45,850 --> 00:04:47,120
We honestly tell people
114
00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:50,090
that Maverick is just a data
company at this point.
115
00:04:50,090 --> 00:04:51,740
We get to see
a whole bunch of stuff
116
00:04:51,740 --> 00:04:53,750
across the entire industry,
117
00:04:53,750 --> 00:04:55,030
and it allows us
to make decisions
118
00:04:55,030 --> 00:04:56,740
without really
a whole bunch of risk
119
00:04:56,740 --> 00:04:58,410
because we kind of know
the answer
120
00:04:58,410 --> 00:05:00,010
before we make the decision.
121
00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:02,910
Low risk is definitely something
that resonates
122
00:05:02,910 --> 00:05:05,630
with farmers right now,
especially with risk management
123
00:05:05,630 --> 00:05:09,120
being such an important part
of the decision-making process.
124
00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:11,019
How does that play
into a CEO mindset?
125
00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:14,120
That's where we take
the conversation next.
126
00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:17,470
Let's start with the mindset
of Canadian farms at this time.
127
00:05:17,470 --> 00:05:20,600
Where do you think we're at
and what does the shift
128
00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:23,230
to the CEO mindset look like?
And why is it important?
129
00:05:23,230 --> 00:05:25,100
We're a very proud industry.
130
00:05:25,100 --> 00:05:27,730
We're built on families,
we're built on legacy,
131
00:05:27,730 --> 00:05:30,360
we're built on the lifestyle
of agriculture.
132
00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:31,990
But I think the part
that's changing,
133
00:05:31,990 --> 00:05:34,990
or that we've realized, is that
the lifestyle didn't create
134
00:05:34,990 --> 00:05:37,880
the business—the business
creates the lifestyle.
135
00:05:38,450 --> 00:05:40,100
There are a lot of farms
that have the lifestyle,
136
00:05:40,100 --> 00:05:43,170
but it's making it much more
difficult to be a producer
137
00:05:43,170 --> 00:05:45,100
these days
with the amount of costs,
138
00:05:45,100 --> 00:05:47,170
the [number] of zeros
behind every decision.
139
00:05:47,170 --> 00:05:50,130
The CEO mindset is more
running it like a business.
140
00:05:50,130 --> 00:05:53,840
So having procedures,
having people, having processes,
141
00:05:54,490 --> 00:05:55,850
and more or less making the farm
142
00:05:55,850 --> 00:05:58,100
into what we call
a self-managing enterprise.
143
00:05:58,770 --> 00:06:00,640
If you weren't there today,
144
00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:02,920
everybody just goes
about their work.
145
00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:04,930
We talked to a lot
of small family farms
146
00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:06,820
and they always
fight back on that.
147
00:06:06,820 --> 00:06:09,550
They don't realize it still
needs to be run as a business.
148
00:06:09,550 --> 00:06:12,210
We all know that succession
and transition on farms
149
00:06:12,210 --> 00:06:14,660
are massive issues these days,
and part of it
150
00:06:14,660 --> 00:06:16,960
is just that nobody
has a role or responsibility.
151
00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:19,300
Everybody is just in charge
of everything, right?
152
00:06:19,300 --> 00:06:21,320
Well, in any other industry,
153
00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:23,270
if you put two people
on the same job,
154
00:06:23,270 --> 00:06:24,760
you're going to [have]
conflict.
155
00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:26,660
That's what we do
on family farms.
156
00:06:26,660 --> 00:06:28,300
Everybody's in charge
of running the drill.
157
00:06:28,300 --> 00:06:30,510
Everybody's in charge
of running the combine.
158
00:06:30,510 --> 00:06:33,500
You know it's all the same roles
and responsibilities.
159
00:06:33,500 --> 00:06:35,740
Even that business mindset
on small farms,
160
00:06:35,740 --> 00:06:37,220
it needs to shift
161
00:06:37,220 --> 00:06:39,820
so that everybody has their own
little piece of the pie
162
00:06:39,820 --> 00:06:41,110
of “I'm in charge of this,”
163
00:06:41,110 --> 00:06:43,320
“this is my responsibility,”
“this is my role”.
164
00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:45,970
And by running it that way,
you get the lifestyle,
165
00:06:45,970 --> 00:06:47,770
and that's the biggest change
I think that you're seeing,
166
00:06:47,770 --> 00:06:50,080
is just the shift
to the CEO mindset.
167
00:06:50,940 --> 00:06:53,600
So how does this specifically
play out on the farm?
168
00:06:54,110 --> 00:06:55,710
Part of it is that
we're starting to see
169
00:06:55,710 --> 00:06:57,930
the next generation really shift
170
00:06:57,930 --> 00:06:59,850
into taking
different specialties.
171
00:06:59,850 --> 00:07:01,450
Technology has made
that a lot easier
172
00:07:01,450 --> 00:07:02,990
because obviously
the next generation
173
00:07:02,990 --> 00:07:04,640
is much more technological
174
00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:07,310
savvy than
our generation probably was,
175
00:07:08,070 --> 00:07:09,520
but it's giving them different
roles,
176
00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:10,740
different responsibilities.
177
00:07:10,740 --> 00:07:12,390
So, when they do come
back to the farm,
178
00:07:12,390 --> 00:07:14,500
they're not all stepping
on each other's toes
179
00:07:14,500 --> 00:07:17,880
because Dad knows that Son
is better in agronomy or tech,
180
00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:20,950
or he's better at marketing,
and Son knows that Dad [has]
181
00:07:20,950 --> 00:07:23,700
the experience,
he's grown 30 crops,
182
00:07:23,700 --> 00:07:26,190
he knows how to put things
in the ground.
183
00:07:26,190 --> 00:07:28,990
Those kinds of roles
and responsibilities split,
184
00:07:28,990 --> 00:07:31,070
that's where you start seeing
the big CEO mindset
185
00:07:31,070 --> 00:07:34,310
because, honestly, everybody's
in charge of their own thing.
186
00:07:34,310 --> 00:07:36,710
The CEO has delegated
all these jobs
187
00:07:36,710 --> 00:07:38,930
that he's not good at
or doesn't want to do.
188
00:07:39,450 --> 00:07:43,190
He can start concentrating on
strategy and mission and values
189
00:07:43,190 --> 00:07:46,050
and all those things that we've
not looked at in agriculture.
190
00:07:46,050 --> 00:07:49,210
But with the way the industry
is going with consolidation
191
00:07:49,210 --> 00:07:50,770
and cost of production,
192
00:07:50,770 --> 00:07:52,810
that has to be
taken into context.
193
00:07:52,810 --> 00:07:54,460
There is a return on that,
194
00:07:54,460 --> 00:07:56,050
of actually
spending time in those areas
195
00:07:56,050 --> 00:07:58,160
because that's probably
where you're making
196
00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:00,220
the majority of your money.
197
00:08:00,220 --> 00:08:03,370
And generally speaking, farmers,
by their nature,
198
00:08:03,370 --> 00:08:04,990
do not like to be
stuck in the office,
199
00:08:04,990 --> 00:08:06,970
so that's probably a tough sell
for you
200
00:08:06,970 --> 00:08:09,510
when you're working with farms
or presenting to them?
201
00:08:09,510 --> 00:08:10,720
It is and it isn't.
202
00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:13,490
They think it's an office job
and I can promise you right now
203
00:08:13,490 --> 00:08:15,240
that my business partner,
Kristjan,
204
00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:18,950
who is the CEO of our group,
he doesn't sit in an office.
205
00:08:18,950 --> 00:08:21,390
Yes, he's in a few boardrooms
now and then,
206
00:08:21,390 --> 00:08:22,890
but honestly,
he's out on the farm.
207
00:08:22,890 --> 00:08:26,720
He's managing, he's supervising,
he's running processes.
208
00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:29,180
The CEO no longer
has to sit in an ivory tower.
209
00:08:29,180 --> 00:08:30,710
They're honestly out there.
210
00:08:30,710 --> 00:08:32,650
They're not the one
driving the machine.
211
00:08:32,650 --> 00:08:35,540
Not that they can't.
If they do, it's by choice.
212
00:08:35,540 --> 00:08:37,200
They don't need
to get up at 5:00 a.m.
213
00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:38,690
because they've got a team
in place
214
00:08:38,690 --> 00:08:40,740
that is
probably better at it than them,
215
00:08:40,740 --> 00:08:42,630
can run
the machines longer than them,
216
00:08:42,630 --> 00:08:44,560
is concentrating more on that
217
00:08:44,560 --> 00:08:46,390
while the CEOs
are on their phone
218
00:08:46,390 --> 00:08:48,280
and they're negotiating
an equipment deal
219
00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:49,600
or they're looking at
selling canola
220
00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:51,520
from six months down the road.
221
00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:53,120
And you're right,
there's a big push back
222
00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:55,060
because that's not
what they signed up for.
223
00:08:55,060 --> 00:08:57,070
But what we're seeing
is that next generation,
224
00:08:57,070 --> 00:08:58,660
they want to be
that next level up.
225
00:08:58,660 --> 00:09:00,450
They want to be
the business owners.
226
00:09:00,450 --> 00:09:01,730
They want to
be the entrepreneurs.
227
00:09:01,730 --> 00:09:04,980
Theoretically, about 5%
of Canadians are entrepreneurs,
228
00:09:04,980 --> 00:09:07,060
but every farmer
is an entrepreneur,
229
00:09:07,060 --> 00:09:08,380
so it's a hard mix
230
00:09:08,380 --> 00:09:11,600
because you might be put in
that position of being a CEO,
231
00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:13,200
but you're not a CEO.
232
00:09:13,870 --> 00:09:16,460
So, what happens when the farmer
really does
233
00:09:16,460 --> 00:09:18,040
not want to be the CEO?
234
00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:21,090
Have you seen where farms
have hired out that function?
235
00:09:21,090 --> 00:09:23,130
I'm actually working with
a farmer right now
236
00:09:23,130 --> 00:09:25,890
whose son is probably
not going to take that role.
237
00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:29,380
He's quite happy just being
an owner and an operator
238
00:09:29,380 --> 00:09:30,890
because that's what
he likes doing,
239
00:09:30,890 --> 00:09:32,750
and there's
nothing wrong with that.
240
00:09:32,750 --> 00:09:34,880
What you do is you bring
in third parties.
241
00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:37,080
Most farms do that today
without even realizing it,
242
00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:39,400
whether it's their accountants,
their lawyers…
243
00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:42,420
They're doing that by talking
to other advisors.
244
00:09:42,420 --> 00:09:45,280
So the majority of that CEO’s
decisions are being done
245
00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:47,500
outside of
just their own office.
246
00:09:47,500 --> 00:09:49,230
Then you get some of
the more progressive guys
247
00:09:49,230 --> 00:09:50,460
such as Kristjan,
248
00:09:50,460 --> 00:09:53,560
who brings me in or our COO
is a third party.
249
00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:56,010
Both of us are owners
of the farm,
250
00:09:56,010 --> 00:09:58,170
so we've got equity
share in HGV.
251
00:09:58,170 --> 00:10:01,160
That was his setup. He's going
to bring in good people,
252
00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:03,650
he's going to fight
for compensation.
253
00:10:03,650 --> 00:10:05,330
And for me,
I was leaving public accounting,
254
00:10:05,330 --> 00:10:06,860
so I was going to be a partner
255
00:10:06,860 --> 00:10:08,680
sometime
in the future hopefully.
256
00:10:08,680 --> 00:10:10,200
That was what he was
competing against.
257
00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:12,090
For me,
it was that equity ownership.
258
00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:14,070
He's got nonfamily members
259
00:10:14,070 --> 00:10:15,940
that are now
part of that organization.
260
00:10:15,940 --> 00:10:18,710
My motivation is to make
as much money as we can
261
00:10:18,710 --> 00:10:20,550
because it comes back
into my pocket.
262
00:10:20,550 --> 00:10:22,600
So, it's that growth factor.
263
00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:24,760
That's what we're
starting to see.
264
00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:26,900
Are there any other hesitancies
that
265
00:10:26,900 --> 00:10:30,800
you're seeing from producers
to get into this mindset?
266
00:10:31,820 --> 00:10:34,000
It's not that they don't want
the next generation to come in
267
00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:36,110
and start taking tasks off
their plate
268
00:10:36,110 --> 00:10:37,909
and start making
their lives easier.
269
00:10:38,450 --> 00:10:40,540
They just don't want to lose
that purpose.
270
00:10:40,540 --> 00:10:44,030
They've been a farmer since
they were probably 18 to 20
271
00:10:44,030 --> 00:10:45,950
[and now] they're turning 60.
272
00:10:45,950 --> 00:10:47,480
The average age
of a farmer in Saskatchewan
273
00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:49,410
is getting close
to that 60 range.
274
00:10:49,410 --> 00:10:51,230
They don't know what else
there is to do in life
275
00:10:51,230 --> 00:10:54,980
when we have these discussions.
You're not moving on.
276
00:10:54,980 --> 00:10:56,690
I don't want you
just to pick up one day,
277
00:10:56,690 --> 00:10:58,940
move to Arizona
and not be part of the farm.
278
00:10:58,940 --> 00:11:00,790
Call it a promotion,
call it a delegation,
279
00:11:00,790 --> 00:11:02,150
call it whatever you want.
280
00:11:02,150 --> 00:11:05,110
You're moving into a different
position on the farm.
281
00:11:05,110 --> 00:11:07,780
You're not going to be working
till 2:00 a.m. on the combine,
282
00:11:07,780 --> 00:11:10,420
but you might be sitting in
boardrooms with networks
283
00:11:10,420 --> 00:11:13,990
and capital and bankers,
and having those discussions.
284
00:11:13,990 --> 00:11:16,040
It's having
the right roles set up
285
00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:17,470
and having the right people
in those roles
286
00:11:17,470 --> 00:11:19,820
that ends up making
the shift a lot easier.
287
00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:22,730
I've heard a farm
transition specialist
288
00:11:22,730 --> 00:11:25,490
talking about reinventing
yourself rather than retiring.
289
00:11:25,490 --> 00:11:29,660
That sounds a lot more palatable
to the senior generation to me
290
00:11:29,660 --> 00:11:31,280
rather than
“you're out of here.”
291
00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:32,850
Even for me,
I'm not that age yet,
292
00:11:32,850 --> 00:11:34,460
but I'm quickly coming upon it,
293
00:11:34,460 --> 00:11:38,210
which is daunting me
how old I am,
294
00:11:38,210 --> 00:11:40,680
but I've learned through
Strategic Coach
295
00:11:40,680 --> 00:11:42,420
and through a whole bunch
of entrepreneur programs
296
00:11:42,420 --> 00:11:45,010
that I don't know
if I ever really want to retire.
297
00:11:45,630 --> 00:11:46,970
Yeah, I want to slow down,
298
00:11:46,970 --> 00:11:48,500
I don't want to be here
9:00 to 5:00.
299
00:11:48,500 --> 00:11:51,160
I mean, that's the goal in life.
But that doesn't mean
300
00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:52,450
I don't want
to sit on a few boards
301
00:11:52,450 --> 00:11:55,370
and maybe I want to be on the
Hebert Group Board of Directors
302
00:11:55,370 --> 00:11:58,130
until I'm 90, and I'm Warren
Buffett kind of thing.
303
00:11:58,130 --> 00:12:00,890
It's that discussion.
What does retirement look like?
304
00:12:00,890 --> 00:12:02,570
For me, I don't think
it's sitting on a couch
305
00:12:02,570 --> 00:12:04,290
or golfing six days a week.
306
00:12:04,900 --> 00:12:07,330
I think it's actually being
a part of this organization,
307
00:12:07,330 --> 00:12:09,180
but in a different parameter,
right?
308
00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:13,180
Yeah, just always evolving,
right? Just like the farm is.
309
00:12:14,170 --> 00:12:15,780
Some of the resistance
might come from farmers
310
00:12:15,780 --> 00:12:17,830
seeing the work in the boardroom
on a different level
311
00:12:17,830 --> 00:12:20,030
than getting
their hands dirty in the field.
312
00:12:20,030 --> 00:12:21,980
Changing roles means changing
the value placed
313
00:12:21,980 --> 00:12:23,240
on the work being done,
314
00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:25,200
and that view of work
has changed from generation
315
00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:27,220
to generation,
says Evan.
316
00:12:27,220 --> 00:12:30,290
I think hours worked. That was
an indication of success.
317
00:12:30,290 --> 00:12:32,630
If you put in 3000 hours,
you were successful.
318
00:12:33,830 --> 00:12:37,220
That mindset has changed without
actually even being forced to
319
00:12:37,220 --> 00:12:39,930
because the next generation is
not like the older generations.
320
00:12:39,930 --> 00:12:42,040
They're starting to realize
that family time
321
00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:43,370
and time with their children
322
00:12:43,370 --> 00:12:46,080
and all that stuff is kind of
coming into the picture.
323
00:12:47,010 --> 00:12:49,080
When we talk human resources
a lot,
324
00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:51,680
it's not necessarily that you
need somebody else on the farm.
325
00:12:51,680 --> 00:12:52,980
If you want to work 3000 hours,
326
00:12:52,980 --> 00:12:54,810
do everything yourself,
be the CEO,
327
00:12:54,810 --> 00:12:57,830
the janitor, or the operator,
you can do that.
328
00:12:58,460 --> 00:13:00,490
Just know you're giving up
something else.
329
00:13:00,490 --> 00:13:01,950
And if it's not
business related,
330
00:13:01,950 --> 00:13:05,010
whether it's profit, marketing,
it's probably family time.
331
00:13:05,540 --> 00:13:08,470
So what we're realizing is,
especially on the coaching side,
332
00:13:08,470 --> 00:13:10,160
guys are starting to have that
“aha” moment
333
00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:13,900
that HR is not necessarily
making their job less important.
334
00:13:14,530 --> 00:13:17,150
It's allowing them to actually
get outside the farm
335
00:13:17,790 --> 00:13:19,960
and spend time
with their children
336
00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:22,630
or go on dates with their wives,
their spouses,
337
00:13:22,630 --> 00:13:26,390
things that in the past
probably got set on the shelf.
338
00:13:26,390 --> 00:13:28,480
And I mean, my business
partner’s living proof.
339
00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:30,230
He was in Calgary for two
340
00:13:30,230 --> 00:13:32,650
or three days
during seeding this year,
341
00:13:32,650 --> 00:13:35,430
doing some public speaking and
he was in a couple of panels.
342
00:13:35,430 --> 00:13:38,200
Even he's made the transition
that he doesn't need to be
343
00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:40,130
at the farm
every single day
344
00:13:40,130 --> 00:13:42,840
during the growing season
for grain to grow.
345
00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:45,600
He's probably not the right one
in the machinery anymore anyway.
346
00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:47,160
We got a lot younger team,
347
00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:48,880
a lot more knowledgeable
in tech.
348
00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:52,190
So what we're starting to prove
is that that CEO mindset
349
00:13:52,190 --> 00:13:54,420
isn't just about
the decision-making.
350
00:13:54,420 --> 00:13:55,730
It's honestly about
stepping back
351
00:13:55,730 --> 00:14:00,270
and having priorities and
balancing personal and business.
352
00:14:00,270 --> 00:14:02,090
Because in agriculture,
we've never done that.
353
00:14:02,090 --> 00:14:03,880
Agriculture has never had
those discussions,
354
00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:05,750
and I think they're starting
to happen more and more now.
355
00:14:05,750 --> 00:14:07,640
If you're saying yes
to more hours,
356
00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:11,120
you're obviously saying no
to more family time,
357
00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:13,310
more time in the relationship
with your spouse,
358
00:14:13,310 --> 00:14:15,500
which I would assume
if you're running a family farm
359
00:14:15,500 --> 00:14:17,260
that's a crucial relationship
360
00:14:17,260 --> 00:14:19,340
that you need
to invest some time in.
361
00:14:20,340 --> 00:14:22,310
Like you said,
people are realizing that
362
00:14:22,310 --> 00:14:25,500
and the younger generations
are seeing people around them
363
00:14:25,500 --> 00:14:27,660
have marriage breakdowns
or they're seeing
364
00:14:27,660 --> 00:14:29,740
how their relationships
with their parents were.
365
00:14:29,740 --> 00:14:31,440
I think the definition
of lifestyle has changed
366
00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:32,650
is what it is.
367
00:14:32,650 --> 00:14:36,140
I mean, lifestyle 30 years ago
was “grow up on the farm,
368
00:14:36,140 --> 00:14:38,860
work on the farm,
do everything on the farm.”
369
00:14:38,860 --> 00:14:40,240
That's what it was.
370
00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:42,410
Now I think the lifestyle
definition is that you,
371
00:14:42,410 --> 00:14:43,620
you still have the farm,
372
00:14:43,620 --> 00:14:45,860
but there's still stuff
outside of it.
373
00:14:45,860 --> 00:14:48,090
Go to kids’ sporting events,
that kind of stuff.
374
00:14:48,090 --> 00:14:51,190
I mean, growing up seeding,
dad didn't make my graduation
375
00:14:51,190 --> 00:14:53,040
and sporting events
because he was in the field.
376
00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:55,740
Nowadays, I know Kristjan made
a couple of his kids’
377
00:14:55,740 --> 00:14:57,300
baseball games during seeding.
378
00:14:57,300 --> 00:14:59,290
And they're going to say,
“You know, we're a larger farm,
379
00:14:59,290 --> 00:15:01,130
so we have the ability
to do that.”
380
00:15:01,130 --> 00:15:02,570
But even on small-scale farms,
381
00:15:02,570 --> 00:15:04,400
that's still a decision
you can make.
382
00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:06,380
Do we have enough people
around us
383
00:15:06,380 --> 00:15:08,240
so that you can take one day
a week off
384
00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:09,620
to go see your kid play sports
385
00:15:09,620 --> 00:15:11,800
in the spring
or during the summer,
386
00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:13,860
the amount of spraying
we do now as farmers,
387
00:15:13,860 --> 00:15:16,610
summer really has not become
a holiday season for most.
388
00:15:17,270 --> 00:15:19,160
So it's “how do you get
to the lake for a weekend
389
00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:21,980
without worrying about
flea beetles or fungicide”.
390
00:15:21,980 --> 00:15:23,540
The guys who are making
that shift,
391
00:15:23,540 --> 00:15:26,060
they're just coming to that
conclusion a lot faster
392
00:15:26,060 --> 00:15:27,910
than some of the ones
who aren't.
393
00:15:27,910 --> 00:15:30,900
So let's say a farmer, producer
or the farm owner
394
00:15:30,900 --> 00:15:32,500
has bought into the CEO mindset.
395
00:15:33,010 --> 00:15:36,620
How would they balance the urge
to maybe fight the guilt
396
00:15:36,620 --> 00:15:38,160
that they might feel
if they're not involved
397
00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:42,180
in all the aspects
or not being there at 5:00 a.m.
398
00:15:42,180 --> 00:15:45,840
when everybody is there
and working the 20-hour day?
399
00:15:46,370 --> 00:15:48,100
You said the one word that I was
going to say.
400
00:15:48,100 --> 00:15:49,450
The biggest issue is guilt.
401
00:15:49,450 --> 00:15:50,740
It's not that
they need to be there
402
00:15:50,740 --> 00:15:53,450
for the 5:00 a.m. phone call.
They want that phone call
403
00:15:53,450 --> 00:15:55,220
because they feel guilty
if they're not out there
404
00:15:55,220 --> 00:15:58,200
and there's a breakdown
or somebody's working on stuff.
405
00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:00,850
And the biggest thing was
just the delegation factors.
406
00:16:00,850 --> 00:16:03,960
We started putting really good
people in the roles on the farm.
407
00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:05,310
It's really hard to trust.
408
00:16:05,310 --> 00:16:07,380
And in today's society,
we always reward performance,
409
00:16:07,380 --> 00:16:08,980
but we never reward trust.
410
00:16:08,980 --> 00:16:11,380
In agriculture,
to get over the guilt factor
411
00:16:11,380 --> 00:16:13,910
and to not be out there
24 hours a day,
412
00:16:13,910 --> 00:16:16,710
you have to have trust.
So for us, it was making sure
413
00:16:16,710 --> 00:16:18,230
that we had the right people
in the machinery.
414
00:16:18,230 --> 00:16:22,070
As I said, the best operators
that we can find and we trust
415
00:16:22,070 --> 00:16:24,980
that they're going to make
the right decisions at 2:00 a.m.
416
00:16:24,980 --> 00:16:26,390
or at 5:00 in the afternoon
417
00:16:26,390 --> 00:16:28,790
when you're home having supper
with your kids.
418
00:16:28,790 --> 00:16:31,010
The biggest thing for us
was we've got teams
419
00:16:31,530 --> 00:16:33,950
and we've got management
in charge of each team,
420
00:16:33,950 --> 00:16:36,530
and they've got the processes
and procedures in place
421
00:16:36,530 --> 00:16:39,500
that they can solve 98% of
what comes across their plate.
422
00:16:40,270 --> 00:16:42,550
They've either had experience
with it before,
423
00:16:42,550 --> 00:16:44,570
or they know
what the process is.
424
00:16:44,570 --> 00:16:46,270
And honestly,
they just do it like clockwork,
425
00:16:46,270 --> 00:16:48,410
and we trust that
if they can't do it,
426
00:16:48,410 --> 00:16:50,100
we're going to get
that phone call.
427
00:16:50,100 --> 00:16:52,270
The biggest thing was getting
over the guilt.
428
00:16:52,270 --> 00:16:54,800
Then you realize that you've put
the right individuals
429
00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:56,140
in the right spots.
430
00:16:56,140 --> 00:16:57,440
That's an interesting concept
431
00:16:57,440 --> 00:16:59,030
when they know
that they're trusted
432
00:16:59,030 --> 00:17:00,340
and they can make
those decisions
433
00:17:00,340 --> 00:17:02,390
and they're empowered
to make those decisions,
434
00:17:02,390 --> 00:17:05,060
that makes things move
a whole lot more smoothly.
435
00:17:05,060 --> 00:17:07,210
You have to make agriculture
a career.
436
00:17:07,210 --> 00:17:08,640
We've done that in the past,
437
00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:10,600
we've always made
a hired hand a job.
438
00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:11,930
I hate the term “hired hand”
439
00:17:11,930 --> 00:17:13,820
because
it’s almost like a dirty word.
440
00:17:13,820 --> 00:17:15,560
But we haven't come up
with a better concept
441
00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:17,420
and that's probably
why agriculture hasn't moved
442
00:17:17,420 --> 00:17:18,660
as far as other industries
443
00:17:18,660 --> 00:17:20,370
when it comes
to human resources.
444
00:17:20,370 --> 00:17:22,800
For us, the whole trust factor
comes from the fact
445
00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:24,640
that we're trying
to give employees a career.
446
00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:25,910
So when they start with us,
447
00:17:25,910 --> 00:17:27,280
they might start on a rock
picker,
448
00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:30,120
but they know that if they're
here for X [number] of years,
449
00:17:30,120 --> 00:17:31,520
they're going to move
their way up,
450
00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:33,970
they're going to get training,
they're going to get education,
451
00:17:33,970 --> 00:17:36,060
they're going to get knowledge,
experience,
452
00:17:36,060 --> 00:17:38,080
and they're going to
move into maybe a drill
453
00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:40,450
and then they might manage
a team or a crew.
454
00:17:40,450 --> 00:17:42,740
And then they might end up
in Jeff’s role of COO
455
00:17:42,740 --> 00:17:44,200
or my role of CFO.
456
00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:46,430
That's the goal is
I honestly want to come to work
457
00:17:46,430 --> 00:17:47,910
and be the least
useful person here
458
00:17:47,910 --> 00:17:50,290
because it means that I have
the right team under me,
459
00:17:50,290 --> 00:17:53,550
and all of them are better
at their job than I was.
460
00:17:53,550 --> 00:17:56,800
It's that career progression
that we're trying to create
461
00:17:56,800 --> 00:17:59,240
that's forced us
to give people the trust,
462
00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:01,790
to give them the ability
to manage other people.
463
00:18:01,790 --> 00:18:03,170
And to make sure
they're educated
464
00:18:03,170 --> 00:18:04,480
and have the experience to do it
465
00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:06,400
because you don't want to put
someone in there that's not.
466
00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:08,590
For us, it's just been a steady
stream of making sure
467
00:18:08,590 --> 00:18:10,690
that the people
under us understand
468
00:18:10,690 --> 00:18:12,700
that there is growth on the farm
469
00:18:12,700 --> 00:18:14,580
and we want them
to be part of it,
470
00:18:14,580 --> 00:18:16,590
partially because
I want to grow too.
471
00:18:16,590 --> 00:18:18,470
I don't want to be in the
same role for the next 30 years,
472
00:18:18,470 --> 00:18:19,710
and for me to grow,
473
00:18:19,710 --> 00:18:21,620
somebody else
has to be able to do my job.
474
00:18:21,620 --> 00:18:23,280
Public accounting, when I
was there, is no different.
475
00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:25,460
When I started, I knew
I wanted to be [a] partner,
476
00:18:25,460 --> 00:18:27,530
but I had to be a CPA first,
477
00:18:27,530 --> 00:18:30,260
then a manager, then associate,
then principal.
478
00:18:30,260 --> 00:18:32,490
There's a role,
but I knew that going in,
479
00:18:32,490 --> 00:18:33,690
where [for] most farmers,
480
00:18:33,690 --> 00:18:34,920
you get in there
as a rock picker,
481
00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:37,190
you assume you're going on
the rock picker for 30 years.
482
00:18:37,190 --> 00:18:39,489
We have to start giving
that career projection
483
00:18:40,190 --> 00:18:41,570
for them to stick around
484
00:18:41,570 --> 00:18:43,190
and for them
to start moving up the chain
485
00:18:43,190 --> 00:18:44,790
so that we can slow down.
486
00:18:45,580 --> 00:18:49,330
Yes, it's been such a challenge
to find human resources
487
00:18:49,330 --> 00:18:50,900
or human capital in agriculture
488
00:18:50,900 --> 00:18:52,999
and get the people
in the right positions.
489
00:18:53,650 --> 00:18:56,810
What's been your mindset
about the hiring process?
490
00:18:57,340 --> 00:18:59,190
When he brought myself
in and Jeff,
491
00:18:59,190 --> 00:19:02,620
we both had big careers.
We were in other careers
492
00:19:02,620 --> 00:19:04,400
that we could have stayed in
for the rest of our lives,
493
00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:07,830
so it was a little more top end,
I guess you would call it.
494
00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:11,210
But our management staff,
they were producers,
495
00:19:11,210 --> 00:19:13,710
or they ran other businesses,
and they were good at their job
496
00:19:13,710 --> 00:19:15,720
whether heavy-duty mechanics
or electricians
497
00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:18,150
or one was a drill press
on the rigs.
498
00:19:18,150 --> 00:19:20,120
And when we brought them in,
we trained them
499
00:19:20,120 --> 00:19:21,810
and that's
our next management group.
500
00:19:21,810 --> 00:19:24,360
That's the group that's
stepping up into the next realm
501
00:19:24,360 --> 00:19:25,690
to start running our crews
502
00:19:25,690 --> 00:19:27,770
and they're the ones
that we have to learn to trust.
503
00:19:27,770 --> 00:19:29,680
And then our operators,
504
00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:33,510
a lot of them have either
been farms that we've acquired,
505
00:19:33,510 --> 00:19:35,710
and they wanted to stick around
and run machinery,
506
00:19:35,710 --> 00:19:36,930
or older farmers
507
00:19:36,930 --> 00:19:38,400
that have retired
from their own operation.
508
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:39,620
We built the team around that.
509
00:19:39,620 --> 00:19:41,200
We want a core group
of full-time guys
510
00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:42,840
that we keep all year-round.
511
00:19:43,470 --> 00:19:45,760
They're the ones
who progress up the chain.
512
00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:47,710
But you also need
that other group
513
00:19:47,710 --> 00:19:49,990
that just wants to show up
during the busy season.
514
00:19:49,990 --> 00:19:52,830
They want their winters off.
It's a bit of a mix.
515
00:19:53,410 --> 00:19:55,110
We're starting to go
to some of the schools now
516
00:19:55,110 --> 00:19:56,700
and offer scholarships,
and stuff like that,
517
00:19:56,700 --> 00:19:58,570
because we want to
keep our team young.
518
00:19:58,570 --> 00:20:01,580
The average age of our team
is probably mid-30s,
519
00:20:02,380 --> 00:20:06,200
which is actually relatively
young for most organizations.
520
00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:07,830
Yeah, that's just so interesting
because
521
00:20:07,830 --> 00:20:10,050
I know the industry’s struggling
with that as a whole too.
522
00:20:10,050 --> 00:20:13,640
Good on you
for making those connections.
523
00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:15,560
Well, a lot of people ask why
we do the podcast
524
00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:16,940
and why we have the social media
525
00:20:16,940 --> 00:20:19,230
that we have and the blogs
and all that stuff.
526
00:20:19,230 --> 00:20:20,970
A lot of it was for HR.
527
00:20:20,970 --> 00:20:23,040
You need to make agriculture
or primary producer
528
00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:24,280
farms feel like a place
529
00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:26,360
that somebody
wants to come back to and work,
530
00:20:26,360 --> 00:20:28,200
because if we're competing
against the bears
531
00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:30,700
and the retail side
of agribusiness,
532
00:20:30,700 --> 00:20:32,870
we're not really attractive
right now.
533
00:20:32,870 --> 00:20:34,970
And we're starting to see it
on social.
534
00:20:34,970 --> 00:20:36,770
You go on Instagram
and you see a lot of good Reels
535
00:20:36,770 --> 00:20:39,020
about new equipment
with some good music.
536
00:20:39,020 --> 00:20:41,280
We're starting to finally
market ourselves
537
00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:43,020
to that next generation,
538
00:20:43,020 --> 00:20:45,700
but we haven't done so
for a long time.
539
00:20:45,700 --> 00:20:48,020
We're behind the 8 ball now
and we need it.
540
00:20:48,020 --> 00:20:50,030
That's probably the biggest
thing for public relations
541
00:20:50,030 --> 00:20:52,310
of why we do
it —it’s the people side.
542
00:20:52,310 --> 00:20:54,460
We need to find really good
people to run our operation
543
00:20:54,460 --> 00:20:55,660
and continue growing
544
00:20:55,660 --> 00:20:57,890
whether that's on
the consulting side or the farm.
545
00:20:57,890 --> 00:20:59,490
And the best way for us to do it
546
00:20:59,490 --> 00:21:02,170
is to put some really
nice pictures up on a website.
547
00:21:02,170 --> 00:21:03,910
And it's funny,
we get both the positive
548
00:21:03,910 --> 00:21:05,990
and the negative side
of social media.
549
00:21:05,990 --> 00:21:07,820
A lot will say:
“Well, you're just showing off.”
550
00:21:07,820 --> 00:21:10,010
To tell you the truth,
we've had two or three
551
00:21:10,010 --> 00:21:11,830
from New Zealand come over.
And the reason they came over
552
00:21:11,830 --> 00:21:14,380
was because they saw
some of our farming videos
553
00:21:14,380 --> 00:21:15,770
or because
they went on our website
554
00:21:15,770 --> 00:21:18,410
and saw what we were doing,
and it interests them.
555
00:21:18,410 --> 00:21:20,190
If I was in a foreign country
and I wanted to come over,
556
00:21:20,190 --> 00:21:22,820
I'd want to see the coolest
operations I could see.
557
00:21:22,820 --> 00:21:24,850
It's never been done before
in agriculture
558
00:21:24,850 --> 00:21:26,940
so we tend to push back
quite a bit.
559
00:21:26,940 --> 00:21:29,270
It's our #1 HR.
We get resumes.
560
00:21:29,270 --> 00:21:32,200
We're not short on labour
on the farm 100%
561
00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:33,880
due to our public relations.
562
00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:36,890
We have our seven full-time guys
that we keep that are core.
563
00:21:36,890 --> 00:21:38,970
They live in the communities
around us
564
00:21:38,970 --> 00:21:41,750
and their kids play hockey
in the communities around us.
565
00:21:41,750 --> 00:21:43,440
That's our core focus,
566
00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:45,180
but it's great
for kids to come over
567
00:21:45,180 --> 00:21:46,420
and they want
to experience farming
568
00:21:46,420 --> 00:21:48,020
so
they can go back to New Zealand
569
00:21:48,020 --> 00:21:49,320
and do the same
thing back there.
570
00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:51,380
It's kind of a win
for both parties.
571
00:21:51,380 --> 00:21:53,070
What does the actual business
structure
572
00:21:53,070 --> 00:21:56,290
look like in terms
of human resources on the farm?
573
00:21:57,360 --> 00:21:59,570
I can use ours a bit as a bit
of an example.
574
00:21:59,570 --> 00:22:02,340
So Kristjan obviously put me
in charge of the finance side,
575
00:22:02,340 --> 00:22:04,170
so I've got a team under me:
576
00:22:04,170 --> 00:22:05,950
the bookkeepers,
the controllers,
577
00:22:05,950 --> 00:22:08,299
that side of the business
that I keep track of.
578
00:22:08,810 --> 00:22:11,060
It's my job to delegate
and educate
579
00:22:11,060 --> 00:22:12,590
and bring them up through it.
580
00:22:12,590 --> 00:22:14,380
On the other side,
the biggest role
581
00:22:14,380 --> 00:22:16,250
I think on the farm
that most miss out on
582
00:22:16,250 --> 00:22:19,520
is that COO role—the chief
operating officer.
583
00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:20,900
Jeff and I joke about it lots,
584
00:22:20,900 --> 00:22:23,460
but he is considerably more
important to the farm than I am,
585
00:22:23,460 --> 00:22:26,140
and it's just somebody who's
trained in HR, for starters.
586
00:22:26,140 --> 00:22:28,680
The worst skill on most farms,
and I'm not afraid to say it
587
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:31,620
because I was terrible at it
as a farmer, is HR.
588
00:22:31,620 --> 00:22:33,770
We didn't have to
learn it in school,
589
00:22:33,770 --> 00:22:35,710
and we honestly
don't have enough employees
590
00:22:35,710 --> 00:22:37,020
to get the experience factor,
591
00:22:37,020 --> 00:22:39,330
so HR on farms
is almost unheard of.
592
00:22:39,330 --> 00:22:41,830
By having a guy
like Jeff in place,
593
00:22:42,390 --> 00:22:45,150
he’d done HR on big scales
before for big companies,
594
00:22:45,660 --> 00:22:48,000
and it allowed him to come in
and create our team
595
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:50,370
so that there was communication,
because on lots of farms
596
00:22:50,370 --> 00:22:52,260
communication
is the biggest issue.
597
00:22:52,260 --> 00:22:54,410
We have weekly meetings.
We have monthly meetings.
598
00:22:54,410 --> 00:22:56,280
They're set up
to get as much transparency
599
00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:59,500
and as much goal setting
and vision pushed onto our team
600
00:22:59,500 --> 00:23:02,020
so that they feel like
they're part of something.
601
00:23:02,020 --> 00:23:04,890
And that COO role, it's not
just HR, but it's scheduling.
602
00:23:04,890 --> 00:23:07,120
It's having the right people
in the right spots.
603
00:23:07,120 --> 00:23:08,680
It is a full-time job
on our farm.
604
00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:09,950
When Jeff came across,
605
00:23:09,950 --> 00:23:12,560
we were only about
6 or 7 thousand acres, I think.
606
00:23:13,090 --> 00:23:14,610
It wasn't like we were
a big farm
607
00:23:14,610 --> 00:23:16,200
and then brought him in.
608
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:18,050
Kristjan brought him
in when we were growing
609
00:23:18,050 --> 00:23:19,250
because he knew one day
610
00:23:19,250 --> 00:23:21,900
we'd probably get to a size
that required his skills.
611
00:23:22,580 --> 00:23:24,680
And what it did is it allowed us
to grow under him,
612
00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:25,900
which allowed us
to have the team
613
00:23:25,900 --> 00:23:29,160
that we have today in place
for every step of growth.
614
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:31,350
A lot of farms grow first,
then throw people in.
615
00:23:31,350 --> 00:23:32,720
I see it on the industry side
616
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:34,670
and I've seen it fail
on the industry side.
617
00:23:34,670 --> 00:23:36,570
On the farming side,
it's going to do the same thing.
618
00:23:36,570 --> 00:23:40,110
For us, it was always let's find
really good people, hire them
619
00:23:40,110 --> 00:23:42,410
and then find the work,
because those farmers,
620
00:23:42,410 --> 00:23:44,110
we're really
good at finding work.
621
00:23:45,550 --> 00:23:49,130
So, as long as we had the HR
in place before the growth,
622
00:23:49,130 --> 00:23:50,940
the growth didn't really hurt,
623
00:23:50,940 --> 00:23:52,880
the hours didn't go past
a certain amount,
624
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,590
and guys weren't burned out,
we didn't lose employees
625
00:23:55,590 --> 00:23:57,440
because
we were growing too fast.
626
00:23:57,440 --> 00:23:58,940
It was solely based on the fact
627
00:23:58,940 --> 00:24:01,410
that we probably spent
a little more on labour
628
00:24:01,410 --> 00:24:03,530
than most farms
at a certain stage,
629
00:24:03,530 --> 00:24:05,440
but we had the team in place
when the growth came.
630
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:09,560
And I'm happy we did
because 14 to 40 in four years,
631
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:10,880
if we hadn't had
the right people,
632
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:13,470
that would have been
a very painful experience.
633
00:24:13,470 --> 00:24:16,540
That's 14,000 to 40,000 acres
in four years.
634
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:18,640
Yeah, that’s a big jump.
635
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,070
The whole HR aspect,
you can't escape it.
636
00:24:21,070 --> 00:24:22,440
I mean, you're dealing
with people,
637
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:26,990
you have to be able to make
good decisions on their behalf
638
00:24:26,990 --> 00:24:29,710
and communicate with them
and create an environment
639
00:24:29,710 --> 00:24:31,290
where they want
to stay and work,
640
00:24:31,290 --> 00:24:33,680
even if you're working
as a family, I'm assuming.
641
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,610
That was always the comical part
was when I start talking HR,
642
00:24:36,610 --> 00:24:38,740
I usually get the small
family farms tuning out.
643
00:24:38,740 --> 00:24:40,250
I always make the joke
when I'm public speaking
644
00:24:40,250 --> 00:24:43,480
that the small family farms
probably have the worst HR.
645
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,710
I have siblings and I and I
understand communication
646
00:24:46,710 --> 00:24:48,530
with family members
is considerably harder
647
00:24:48,530 --> 00:24:50,550
than communication
with third parties.
648
00:24:50,550 --> 00:24:53,070
When it came to communication,
we were quite business centred
649
00:24:53,070 --> 00:24:55,110
when we started.
We're on a family farm.
650
00:24:55,620 --> 00:24:58,140
Communication is usually
the first thing to go.
651
00:24:58,140 --> 00:25:00,350
And when it goes,
that's when emotion comes in.
652
00:25:00,350 --> 00:25:02,750
That's when you have
uncomfortable conversations,
653
00:25:02,750 --> 00:25:04,450
is when things
have already fallen apart.
654
00:25:04,450 --> 00:25:07,610
Where with us
it's a business conversation.
655
00:25:07,610 --> 00:25:09,440
[Are] there hurt feelings
once in a while?
656
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:10,920
Sure.
Kristjan and I were friends
657
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:13,050
long before
we were business partners.
658
00:25:13,050 --> 00:25:15,460
But you go home,
you probably stew for an hour
659
00:25:15,460 --> 00:25:16,960
and then you go to work
the next morning.
660
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:19,140
You're over it because
it's just a business discussion.
661
00:25:19,140 --> 00:25:21,390
When we're running
a multimillion-dollar business,
662
00:25:21,390 --> 00:25:23,189
those cannot be
emotional decisions.
663
00:25:24,170 --> 00:25:26,110
You don't have time
for mind reading.
664
00:25:26,110 --> 00:25:29,140
So we kind of touched
on multi-generational farms.
665
00:25:29,140 --> 00:25:32,240
Are there any other aspects
of how this CEO mindset
666
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:34,540
would work on
a multi-generational farm?
667
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:37,210
We got to remember
that we're still a business.
668
00:25:37,210 --> 00:25:40,590
When it comes to succession and
transition, it's all business.
669
00:25:40,590 --> 00:25:42,050
Even with the clients
that I work with,
670
00:25:42,050 --> 00:25:44,900
and they’re family farms,
bringing that next generation
671
00:25:44,900 --> 00:25:46,850
in and the older generation
moving out,
672
00:25:47,570 --> 00:25:49,230
there still [has]
to be an element of fairness.
673
00:25:49,230 --> 00:25:50,990
The older generation,
what do they have?
674
00:25:50,990 --> 00:25:54,430
They've got capital, they've got
money, they've got investment.
675
00:25:54,940 --> 00:25:56,570
But they're looking
to slow down on labour
676
00:25:56,570 --> 00:25:58,490
and some of
the management techniques.
677
00:25:58,490 --> 00:26:00,780
The younger generation,
they're not coming in
678
00:26:00,780 --> 00:26:03,600
with a whole bunch of money
or land or capital.
679
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:06,400
They're coming in
with time and brains,
680
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,100
so labour and management.
681
00:26:08,780 --> 00:26:10,560
On the compensation scale,
it's making sure
682
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,110
that everybody's fairly
compensated for everything
683
00:26:13,110 --> 00:26:14,320
that they're bringing in.
684
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:16,360
As the older generation
moves out,
685
00:26:16,360 --> 00:26:18,330
they might stop doing
anything on the farm
686
00:26:18,330 --> 00:26:20,170
altogether other than sitting
on a board.
687
00:26:20,170 --> 00:26:22,290
Well, that doesn't mean they're
not getting paid for their land
688
00:26:22,290 --> 00:26:23,630
and their equity still.
689
00:26:23,630 --> 00:26:25,930
What that does is that allows
them to leave it in the business
690
00:26:25,930 --> 00:26:28,170
rather than take it
and put it in the stock market
691
00:26:28,170 --> 00:26:30,400
which, honestly,
the return on a farm
692
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:32,080
as we've seen
in the last few years,
693
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:33,320
it's better than
the stock market.
694
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:35,240
And then the coming
in generation,
695
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:37,260
you have to get rid
of the expectations.
696
00:26:37,260 --> 00:26:39,500
You're coming in,
you're going to work hard
697
00:26:39,500 --> 00:26:40,970
and you're going to
get paid for it.
698
00:26:40,970 --> 00:26:42,270
You're going to try to take on
699
00:26:42,270 --> 00:26:45,330
as many decision-making
roles and responsibilities,
700
00:26:45,330 --> 00:26:46,900
and you're going
to get paid for that.
701
00:26:46,900 --> 00:26:48,110
Because those are
the two things
702
00:26:48,110 --> 00:26:50,140
that you are bringing to
the equation right now.
703
00:26:50,140 --> 00:26:51,860
As the years go on, obviously,
704
00:26:51,860 --> 00:26:53,320
you're going to take over
more of that role,
705
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:55,230
hopefully reinvest in land,
in capital.
706
00:26:55,230 --> 00:26:56,540
It comes down to making sure
707
00:26:56,540 --> 00:26:58,150
that everybody's
compensated fairly.
708
00:26:58,150 --> 00:26:59,690
If you make everything
at fair market value
709
00:26:59,690 --> 00:27:00,910
and pay everybody
710
00:27:00,910 --> 00:27:02,770
for what they're bringing
to the business,
711
00:27:02,770 --> 00:27:05,510
it's not a discussion anymore.
It's already fair.
712
00:27:05,510 --> 00:27:08,200
There is no sweat equity.
That's a term that I hate,
713
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:09,910
because if everything's done
at fair market value,
714
00:27:09,910 --> 00:27:11,110
there should be
no sweat equity.
715
00:27:11,110 --> 00:27:13,220
Because you've been paid
for everything you've done.
716
00:27:13,220 --> 00:27:14,850
That’s the big one for me,
717
00:27:14,850 --> 00:27:16,640
especially with family farms,
is making sure
718
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:18,930
that the compensation
is set up correctly,
719
00:27:18,930 --> 00:27:21,140
because that usually solves
a lot of the issues.
720
00:27:21,140 --> 00:27:23,280
And then back to the roles
and responsibilities,
721
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:24,530
that's number two.
722
00:27:24,530 --> 00:27:26,100
If you're stepping
on each other’s toes,
723
00:27:26,100 --> 00:27:27,330
it's never going to work.
724
00:27:27,330 --> 00:27:30,060
As long as everybody understands
what their role is.
725
00:27:30,060 --> 00:27:33,730
I've seen some family farms
be very successful just by that.
726
00:27:34,380 --> 00:27:36,900
Let's say you're working
with a farm that has had
727
00:27:36,900 --> 00:27:39,860
a significant amount
of sweat equity in the past.
728
00:27:39,860 --> 00:27:43,330
Is there a possibility
to go back and account for that?
729
00:27:43,860 --> 00:27:45,620
That sweat equity is
really hard to calculate.
730
00:27:45,620 --> 00:27:47,000
Just because you were there
731
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,580
doesn't mean
that you made money.
732
00:27:49,580 --> 00:27:51,430
When I speak, I ask that
question right at the start:
733
00:27:51,430 --> 00:27:53,400
“Which one made you more money
over the last 10 years?
734
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:55,180
Was it the real estate
or the farming?”
735
00:27:55,180 --> 00:27:57,550
Real estate has made
so much money for farms
736
00:27:57,550 --> 00:27:58,950
and for agriculture.
737
00:27:58,950 --> 00:28:01,160
That's usually where
the big wealth has been.
738
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:02,760
That means that the sweat equity
739
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:05,250
didn't really do anything
for land purchases.
740
00:28:05,250 --> 00:28:06,550
That was just based on farming.
741
00:28:06,550 --> 00:28:09,350
So it's a very hard number
to calculate.
742
00:28:10,170 --> 00:28:12,100
So, you're talking about
in terms of compensation
743
00:28:12,100 --> 00:28:13,840
at fair market value
744
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:15,800
and bringing in
the younger generation.
745
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:21,380
Would you suggest getting that
on paper, making a structure,
746
00:28:21,380 --> 00:28:23,410
making a progression,
setting up goals,
747
00:28:23,410 --> 00:28:25,830
and the evolution
of that person's role
748
00:28:25,830 --> 00:28:27,450
in the organization?
749
00:28:27,450 --> 00:28:29,030
We use what we call
an equity calculator.
750
00:28:29,030 --> 00:28:31,030
It takes the net income
of the farm every year.
751
00:28:31,030 --> 00:28:34,720
We break out what was a return
on equity of the shareholders
752
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:36,130
leaving in their money,
753
00:28:36,130 --> 00:28:37,730
what was land rent
to the shareholders
754
00:28:37,730 --> 00:28:39,000
for their personally held land
755
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,060
that they've given
to the operation,
756
00:28:41,060 --> 00:28:42,900
and then everything else below
that gets split
757
00:28:42,900 --> 00:28:45,340
based on a labour
and a management split.
758
00:28:45,340 --> 00:28:46,690
It's an annual conversation,
759
00:28:46,690 --> 00:28:48,000
so at the annual
general meeting,
760
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,140
we sit down with the whole
family in the room and we say:
761
00:28:51,140 --> 00:28:53,920
“What are the percentages?
So a father-son [operation],
762
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:55,410
who's doing what percentage
of management?
763
00:28:55,410 --> 00:28:56,780
How many roles
and responsibilities
764
00:28:56,780 --> 00:28:58,530
is each of you covering?”
765
00:28:58,530 --> 00:29:00,440
Then in terms of labour,
if they keep timesheets.
766
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:02,380
That's easy,
but lots of them don't.
767
00:29:02,380 --> 00:29:04,490
So, it's who's doing
what for percentage of labour.
768
00:29:04,490 --> 00:29:07,850
So is the son doing 16-hour days
and the dad’s doing eights?
769
00:29:07,850 --> 00:29:10,180
It becomes a family
discussion each year
770
00:29:10,870 --> 00:29:13,220
and the agreement
gets split based on that.
771
00:29:13,220 --> 00:29:14,940
And that's your compensation
for the year.
772
00:29:14,940 --> 00:29:16,640
It's in writing
and it's on paper,
773
00:29:17,150 --> 00:29:19,590
and every year you revisit it
because as we know,
774
00:29:19,590 --> 00:29:21,780
in agriculture,
a lot can change in a year.
775
00:29:21,780 --> 00:29:23,450
We’ll go over all of
last year's operations,
776
00:29:23,450 --> 00:29:25,950
all the key ratios, everything
about how the farm is doing
777
00:29:25,950 --> 00:29:27,670
and where it's sitting today.
778
00:29:27,670 --> 00:29:29,130
And then we'll do the planning
for next year,
779
00:29:29,130 --> 00:29:31,120
which is “what are the goals
for next year,
780
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:32,720
what's the compensation
set up”
781
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:34,070
so they can go into
their growing season
782
00:29:34,070 --> 00:29:35,570
without any question marks.
783
00:29:35,570 --> 00:29:37,280
Everything’s down on paper,
everything is signed,
784
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:38,890
and everybody knows
what the goal is.
785
00:29:38,890 --> 00:29:40,980
Lots of farms
have thought about it,
786
00:29:40,980 --> 00:29:43,730
very few have ever written it
down on a piece of paper.
787
00:29:44,550 --> 00:29:46,680
That's true, right? They have it
in the back of their mind.
788
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,180
It's amazing how just the act
of writing them down
789
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:53,570
has a huge impact on whether
or not you achieve them.
790
00:29:53,570 --> 00:29:56,720
The studies, like you said,
they are quite astonishing,
791
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,470
when you have goals.
That's just the number one step.
792
00:29:59,470 --> 00:30:00,940
But number two,
when you write them down –
793
00:30:00,940 --> 00:30:02,170
we do it quarterly.
794
00:30:02,170 --> 00:30:04,140
Every quarter we sit down
and we have a set of goals
795
00:30:04,140 --> 00:30:06,270
for that quarter
as a leadership group,
796
00:30:06,270 --> 00:30:08,030
and then as
our management group.
797
00:30:08,030 --> 00:30:10,879
What do we need to achieve
this quarter to be successful?
798
00:30:11,380 --> 00:30:15,100
We have that 10-year plan made,
so we break it down into 10-3-1,
799
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:19,400
because the 3s are based on what
we have to do to get to the 10s.
800
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:21,990
The 1 is based on what we have
to do to get to the 3s,
801
00:30:21,990 --> 00:30:24,620
and every quarter, how do we get
to those 1-year goals.
802
00:30:24,620 --> 00:30:26,080
The other thing it does
is it helps us
803
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:27,300
do our performance reviews,
804
00:30:27,300 --> 00:30:28,800
because everybody
in the operation
805
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:30,840
is in charge of a goal.
806
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:32,440
Honestly,
that's a really easy way to say
807
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:34,450
“Did we achieve or did we fail?”
808
00:30:34,450 --> 00:30:36,730
And do you find some resistance
to that?
809
00:30:36,730 --> 00:30:38,150
The interesting part is—and
810
00:30:38,150 --> 00:30:39,840
we run the EOS system
in the business,
811
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:41,990
so it's the Entrepreneurial
Operating System
812
00:30:41,990 --> 00:30:43,200
by Gino Wickman.
813
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:46,060
If you’ve ever read the book
Traction, it's based on that.
814
00:30:46,060 --> 00:30:48,100
I don't want someone
to get 100%.
815
00:30:48,100 --> 00:30:50,320
if you get 100%,
it tells me one thing:
816
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:51,910
you’re sandbagging your goals.
817
00:30:51,910 --> 00:30:54,560
If we can hit 80%
on our goals every quarter,
818
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:55,970
it means we're still
moving forward,
819
00:30:55,970 --> 00:30:58,510
but it also means that
we're setting hard enough goals
820
00:30:58,510 --> 00:31:00,450
that they're actually
pushing us.
821
00:31:00,450 --> 00:31:02,130
Going into seeding,
for example,
822
00:31:02,130 --> 00:31:03,670
we want to get the crop
in in 21 days,
823
00:31:03,670 --> 00:31:06,220
because we've shown in the past,
through yield maps
824
00:31:06,220 --> 00:31:08,290
and everything else,
that that's our window.
825
00:31:08,290 --> 00:31:09,960
Now do we hit it every year?
No.
826
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:12,490
Weather has a real
strong impact on that goal,
827
00:31:12,490 --> 00:31:14,860
but that doesn't mean that we
don't set that goal every year,
828
00:31:14,860 --> 00:31:17,709
because that's what we know
is most optimal for the farm.
829
00:31:18,330 --> 00:31:19,700
It sounds like the shift
in thinking
830
00:31:19,700 --> 00:31:23,180
also means having several
uncomfortable conversations.
831
00:31:23,180 --> 00:31:26,350
Do you have any advice on
navigating those conversations?
832
00:31:26,350 --> 00:31:28,700
I think it goes back
to my comments on emotion.
833
00:31:28,700 --> 00:31:31,750
When you're in the boardrooms,
it's a business discussion.
834
00:31:31,750 --> 00:31:33,480
And not to say that emotions
don't creep in,
835
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:34,800
because they always do.
836
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,150
Your family farms,
there's emotion involved,
837
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:39,750
but everybody's got to take
a breath and walk away.
838
00:31:39,750 --> 00:31:41,570
The decisions you're
making in those meetings,
839
00:31:41,570 --> 00:31:42,870
they're not
emotional decisions.
840
00:31:42,870 --> 00:31:44,950
They're literally about millions
and millions of dollars
841
00:31:44,950 --> 00:31:47,300
and how we're going to
strategize to make money
842
00:31:47,300 --> 00:31:49,350
so that we can
keep the lifestyle.
843
00:31:49,350 --> 00:31:51,390
The biggest one for me
is just making sure emotion
844
00:31:51,390 --> 00:31:53,030
doesn't come
into decision-making.
845
00:31:53,030 --> 00:31:55,990
That's number one.
The other one is just…
846
00:31:55,990 --> 00:31:57,960
We use a system called IDS.
847
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:00,050
It's Identify,
Discuss and Solve.
848
00:32:00,050 --> 00:32:02,320
There [are]
no massive issues on a farm.
849
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:05,790
There's a whole bunch of issues,
but they're all resolvable.
850
00:32:05,790 --> 00:32:07,770
Have your list of issues,
rank them
851
00:32:07,770 --> 00:32:09,410
“what do we have
to get through”,
852
00:32:09,410 --> 00:32:11,010
and just start
ticking them off.
853
00:32:11,850 --> 00:32:14,680
Maybe there's an employee
that's bothering everybody.
854
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:16,520
We discuss it and we solve.
855
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:18,670
The big thing with EOS
is that the “solve”
856
00:32:18,670 --> 00:32:21,350
doesn't have to be
the right decision all the time,
857
00:32:21,350 --> 00:32:23,480
because we're never
going to get them all right.
858
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:25,140
But you have to come
to a decision.
859
00:32:25,140 --> 00:32:26,740
You can't just leave
an issue sitting.
860
00:32:26,740 --> 00:32:27,990
We have these little issues
861
00:32:27,990 --> 00:32:30,140
and they start as what
we call brush fires.
862
00:32:30,710 --> 00:32:32,530
If you don't put them out,
a year later,
863
00:32:32,530 --> 00:32:35,530
it's been sitting there
and brewing for 365 days
864
00:32:35,530 --> 00:32:37,600
and all of a sudden
you get the blow-ups.
865
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:39,740
And it's like “that was an issue
a year ago,
866
00:32:39,740 --> 00:32:41,010
we could have solved that,
867
00:32:41,010 --> 00:32:42,970
and this would
have never happened.”
868
00:32:42,970 --> 00:32:45,590
There's usually a very
reasonable solution
869
00:32:45,590 --> 00:32:46,850
to everything,
870
00:32:46,850 --> 00:32:48,880
you just got to take
the time to sit down.
871
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:52,010
Do you have these
IDS conversations
872
00:32:52,010 --> 00:32:54,040
as part of your regular agenda?
873
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,190
How do you work that
into your operation?
874
00:32:56,980 --> 00:32:59,110
As the leadership group we meet
once a week
875
00:32:59,110 --> 00:33:01,010
for an hour
every Monday morning,
876
00:33:01,570 --> 00:33:04,100
and we have a set agenda
for each meeting.
877
00:33:04,100 --> 00:33:06,260
We have an hour,
and if it goes over the hour,
878
00:33:06,260 --> 00:33:07,780
we're moving it
to the next meeting.
879
00:33:07,780 --> 00:33:09,090
We start the meetings
with the positive.
880
00:33:09,090 --> 00:33:10,380
What went right
for the business
881
00:33:10,380 --> 00:33:12,410
and what went right personally
for the last week.
882
00:33:12,410 --> 00:33:13,610
Then we go through
our scorecard,
883
00:33:13,610 --> 00:33:15,970
which, as a leadership group,
we want to know every week.
884
00:33:15,970 --> 00:33:17,590
Whether that's cash flow,
885
00:33:17,590 --> 00:33:19,290
whether that's how much grain
we have contracted.
886
00:33:19,290 --> 00:33:21,260
There are just 15 main metrics,
887
00:33:21,260 --> 00:33:24,420
and we have to know every week
in order to be good leaders.
888
00:33:24,420 --> 00:33:28,020
Then we go into headlines.
I'm 4 hours away from the farm.
889
00:33:28,020 --> 00:33:30,940
What's happened in the last week
that I might need to know about?
890
00:33:30,940 --> 00:33:32,360
Maybe it's industry-wise:
891
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:33,840
“Did canola or wheat
go on a run?”
892
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:35,480
because I'm not watching
the markets every day.
893
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:37,990
So it helps me be better
at my consulting
894
00:33:37,990 --> 00:33:40,060
if I get the updates
from the farm.
895
00:33:41,330 --> 00:33:44,270
Then we go into rocks,
which is our goals.
896
00:33:44,270 --> 00:33:45,500
Are we achieving them?
897
00:33:45,500 --> 00:33:47,980
Do we need help each week
just to stay accountable?
898
00:33:47,980 --> 00:33:49,920
Because if you don't ever
talk about them,
899
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:51,550
you don't actually
achieve them.
900
00:33:51,550 --> 00:33:54,090
And then the last one is IDS.
Usually you leave half an hour
901
00:33:54,090 --> 00:33:56,310
and if we take more
than 10 minutes,
902
00:33:56,310 --> 00:33:58,140
it was probably a big day.
903
00:33:58,140 --> 00:34:01,140
And what are the brush fires
that we need to stop right now?
904
00:34:01,710 --> 00:34:03,900
Lots of them are HR related
because as you said,
905
00:34:03,900 --> 00:34:06,640
people on farms
is usually the big ones.
906
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:08,200
But maybe it's as simple as
907
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:10,300
“there's a TPA for canola
for the fall
908
00:34:10,300 --> 00:34:12,130
and it's going to hit.
Do we want that number?”
909
00:34:12,130 --> 00:34:13,880
That's an issue
because not all of us
910
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:16,460
have heard about it
or had the discussion.
911
00:34:16,460 --> 00:34:18,500
So it's a 30 second solve.
Yes or no.
912
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:21,110
It's that list of issues
that we find
913
00:34:21,110 --> 00:34:24,090
really gets rid of anything that
might fester and become big.
914
00:34:24,090 --> 00:34:26,410
So then when you get
your annual general meetings,
915
00:34:26,410 --> 00:34:27,980
if every issue
is already solved,
916
00:34:27,980 --> 00:34:29,879
those meetings
aren't really that bad.
917
00:34:30,810 --> 00:34:33,500
You've coached many farmers.
What are some of the “aha”
918
00:34:33,500 --> 00:34:35,170
moments
that they've experienced?
919
00:34:35,170 --> 00:34:38,070
I know you talked about time
and work-life balance,
920
00:34:38,070 --> 00:34:40,030
but are there other ones
that you've noticed
921
00:34:40,030 --> 00:34:41,590
when you've worked with them?
922
00:34:41,590 --> 00:34:43,840
As you said, the “aha” moment
of work-life balance
923
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:45,740
and hiring the right people.
924
00:34:45,740 --> 00:34:47,420
But you start getting into
some of the other stuff
925
00:34:47,420 --> 00:34:48,660
on the financial side.
926
00:34:48,660 --> 00:34:50,100
They meet with their accountants
once a year,
927
00:34:50,100 --> 00:34:51,540
they meet with their bankers.
928
00:34:51,540 --> 00:34:53,600
They have the discussions,
but they don't really know
929
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:56,810
what they're actually talking
about as a big picture item.
930
00:34:56,810 --> 00:34:58,540
Once we start going through
some of those metrics
931
00:34:58,540 --> 00:35:01,630
and then we take the finances
down, even to the drill size:
932
00:35:01,630 --> 00:35:03,600
How many acres per foot
are you doing with the drill?
933
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:06,260
When you get into benchmarking,
a lot of farms believe
934
00:35:06,260 --> 00:35:08,390
they're doing very well,
but that's because
935
00:35:08,390 --> 00:35:10,490
they've never actually
compared to anybody else.
936
00:35:10,490 --> 00:35:12,220
Maybe there's a reason
somebody's doing better
937
00:35:12,220 --> 00:35:13,450
than somebody else.
938
00:35:13,450 --> 00:35:16,270
The aha moments just come
from having discussions
939
00:35:16,270 --> 00:35:17,710
openly among a group.
940
00:35:17,710 --> 00:35:19,180
And that was the part
of the coaching
941
00:35:19,180 --> 00:35:22,130
that I think is the hardest
for a lot of farms.
942
00:35:22,130 --> 00:35:24,360
We have a lot of introverts
in the industry.
943
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:26,560
When you put them in a room
and you force them to stand up
944
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:28,030
and have those discussions
out loud,
945
00:35:28,030 --> 00:35:29,920
it makes a lot of people
uncomfortable,
946
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:32,630
but it also reinforces
those conversations
947
00:35:32,630 --> 00:35:36,190
and gives you positivity back,
it gives you ideas.
948
00:35:36,190 --> 00:35:37,800
We always have the first night
of the sessions
949
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:39,790
and we go out
for supper afterwards.
950
00:35:39,790 --> 00:35:42,260
The first time I probably stayed
till 9:00 or 10:00
951
00:35:42,260 --> 00:35:43,730
and was in all
the conversations.
952
00:35:43,730 --> 00:35:46,690
And then after that,
I'd probably leave at 5:30-6:00
953
00:35:46,690 --> 00:35:48,210
because they're having
their own conversations.
954
00:35:48,210 --> 00:35:51,070
I'm not required there anymore.
It's that side of it,
955
00:35:51,070 --> 00:35:53,080
the aha moment
that you're a big peer group,
956
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:54,770
but at the same time,
there's a whole bunch
957
00:35:54,770 --> 00:35:56,270
of coaching
and mentoring going on,
958
00:35:56,270 --> 00:35:58,300
and they get more comfortable
with each other.
959
00:35:58,300 --> 00:36:00,350
We're showing guys
a whole bunch of stuff
960
00:36:00,350 --> 00:36:02,480
and obviously we're
a larger scale operation,
961
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:04,440
but we've made
a lot of mistakes.
962
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:06,640
We get to show them those
mistakes before they make them,
963
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:08,390
so if they're trying to grow
964
00:36:08,390 --> 00:36:11,520
or they're trying to progress,
we're giving them a road map.
965
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:13,140
Here's what we did
and it didn't work.
966
00:36:13,140 --> 00:36:14,360
Not saying it's going
to affect you,
967
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:16,580
but these are some
pretty good mistakes
968
00:36:16,580 --> 00:36:19,260
to avoid that might lower
some of your pain points.
969
00:36:19,930 --> 00:36:23,040
You've talked about the impact
that a successful
970
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:25,670
farming business
will have on the local community
971
00:36:25,670 --> 00:36:27,530
in terms
of employment generation
972
00:36:27,530 --> 00:36:29,250
and in terms of giving back,
973
00:36:29,250 --> 00:36:34,040
that's an important aspect of
the whole enterprise structure.
974
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:35,680
What kind of advice
you would have to give
975
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:37,280
to producers about that?
976
00:36:37,890 --> 00:36:40,270
For us, the biggest issues
in agriculture
977
00:36:40,270 --> 00:36:41,910
are government policy
is number one,
978
00:36:41,910 --> 00:36:43,870
because I've got
no control over it.
979
00:36:43,870 --> 00:36:45,810
And then number two
is community demographics.
980
00:36:45,810 --> 00:36:47,090
Throughout the busy season,
981
00:36:47,090 --> 00:36:49,639
we can have as many as 25
to 30 people at the farm.
982
00:36:50,420 --> 00:36:52,150
That's a lot of people
for a small town
983
00:36:52,150 --> 00:36:53,900
in southeast Saskatchewan.
984
00:36:53,900 --> 00:36:55,840
How do we keep
our community vibrant
985
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:58,300
so that there are people?
Because without people,
986
00:36:58,300 --> 00:37:01,180
it doesn't matter if you're
farming up north or down south.
987
00:37:01,180 --> 00:37:03,030
If you don't have people,
and it doesn't matter
988
00:37:03,030 --> 00:37:05,780
if you're a small family farm
or a bigger farm,
989
00:37:05,780 --> 00:37:07,410
the next generation
is not going to stick around
990
00:37:07,410 --> 00:37:09,590
if the community's got no rink,
no school
991
00:37:10,130 --> 00:37:13,440
and nothing for them to do.
We want agriculture as a whole,
992
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:16,890
whether it's family farms
or bigger farms, to succeed.
993
00:37:16,890 --> 00:37:19,300
We need the communities
around us to succeed.
994
00:37:19,300 --> 00:37:21,740
Most of our employees,
as I said, are 30 to 40.
995
00:37:22,260 --> 00:37:24,370
They've all got kids
that play sports.
996
00:37:24,370 --> 00:37:26,820
They've all got kids
that are in the schools.
997
00:37:26,820 --> 00:37:29,820
So, giving back to those things
keeps them in our community.
998
00:37:30,330 --> 00:37:31,550
We have to drive an hour
and a half
999
00:37:31,550 --> 00:37:34,060
to have a AA hockey team
for some of our employees.
1000
00:37:34,060 --> 00:37:36,420
It sounds stupid, but we've had
to have the discussions
1001
00:37:36,420 --> 00:37:38,170
on what happens
if that team's not there
1002
00:37:38,170 --> 00:37:39,370
and they have to move away
1003
00:37:39,370 --> 00:37:42,020
because their kids want to play
somewhere else.
1004
00:37:42,020 --> 00:37:43,790
And it sounds ridiculous
that you leave a job
1005
00:37:43,790 --> 00:37:46,800
for a kid playing hockey,
but, that's what it is.
1006
00:37:48,130 --> 00:37:49,640
For us, it's how do we start
1007
00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:50,910
bringing some of
those organizations
1008
00:37:50,910 --> 00:37:53,680
back into Moosomin and back
into the surrounding towns
1009
00:37:54,500 --> 00:37:55,730
to keep the communities vibrant
1010
00:37:55,730 --> 00:37:57,470
so that we always
have employees.
1011
00:37:57,470 --> 00:37:58,810
Because the labour market,
as we know,
1012
00:37:58,810 --> 00:38:00,170
is in a bad spot right now
1013
00:38:00,170 --> 00:38:02,620
and especially
in primary producer agriculture.
1014
00:38:02,620 --> 00:38:05,350
It gets even worse if we just
keep killing small communities
1015
00:38:05,350 --> 00:38:07,070
and not having resources.
1016
00:38:07,070 --> 00:38:09,560
Yeah, I would argue that
these small communities
1017
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:10,830
need these farms too,
1018
00:38:10,830 --> 00:38:13,910
to provide the people,
provide the funding
1019
00:38:13,910 --> 00:38:16,350
and the donations
for these different sports,
1020
00:38:16,350 --> 00:38:18,450
provide the volunteers
for coaching
1021
00:38:18,450 --> 00:38:20,840
and for the local
school councils
1022
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:25,060
and the millions of community
groups that need to be running
1023
00:38:25,060 --> 00:38:26,780
so that the community
stays vibrant.
1024
00:38:26,780 --> 00:38:28,870
So I would argue too
that the communities
1025
00:38:28,870 --> 00:38:31,150
depend on successful farms.
1026
00:38:31,150 --> 00:38:35,250
At last year's summer event,
we had 40 to 50 adults
1027
00:38:35,250 --> 00:38:37,340
and probably 30 to 40 kids.
1028
00:38:37,340 --> 00:38:39,710
So from just
our operation alone,
1029
00:38:39,710 --> 00:38:41,840
there are about 80 to 90 people
that live
1030
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:44,560
in the surrounding communities
just on our farm team.
1031
00:38:45,290 --> 00:38:47,330
And we're one farm of hundreds
and hundreds
1032
00:38:47,330 --> 00:38:48,530
around those communities,
1033
00:38:48,530 --> 00:38:51,600
so agriculture is
the primary industry
1034
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:53,170
around these communities.
1035
00:38:53,170 --> 00:38:54,650
We have to make sure
we give back
1036
00:38:54,650 --> 00:38:56,690
to keep those communities
where they are.
1037
00:38:56,690 --> 00:38:59,580
We are pertinent to them.
But at the same time,
1038
00:38:59,580 --> 00:39:01,760
they're also
very important to us.
1039
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:03,790
Was there anything that you
wanted to talk about
1040
00:39:03,790 --> 00:39:07,770
that you want our listeners
to consider their next moves?
1041
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:10,110
In agriculture, we've always had
that line
1042
00:39:10,110 --> 00:39:11,759
“It's always been
done this way.”
1043
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:14,140
It's one of the most
dangerous lines
1044
00:39:14,140 --> 00:39:16,590
because I agree
that we need to respect
1045
00:39:16,590 --> 00:39:18,130
what's been done in the past,
1046
00:39:18,130 --> 00:39:20,370
but we're also in
a different generation now.
1047
00:39:20,370 --> 00:39:21,780
With land equity where it is,
1048
00:39:21,780 --> 00:39:23,230
where the financials
where it is,
1049
00:39:23,230 --> 00:39:25,810
every decision we make today
is a million-dollar decision.
1050
00:39:25,810 --> 00:39:27,360
It doesn’t matter
what size farm you're on,
1051
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:28,560
a million-dollar tractor
1052
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:31,260
is still a million-dollar
tractor on any size of farm.
1053
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:35,270
We need to make sure
that we're taking these mindsets
1054
00:39:35,270 --> 00:39:38,050
and this business shift
a little more seriously
1055
00:39:38,050 --> 00:39:40,149
because it's always
been pushed back upon,
1056
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:42,210
and it's becoming more
and more important.
1057
00:39:42,210 --> 00:39:44,100
With how many people we have
coming through the coaching
1058
00:39:44,100 --> 00:39:45,940
and through our consulting
and everything else
1059
00:39:45,940 --> 00:39:47,860
and the [number]
of questions I get asked,
1060
00:39:47,860 --> 00:39:49,200
it's becoming more important
1061
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:51,380
because we can push back
as much as we want,
1062
00:39:51,380 --> 00:39:52,930
the industry is going
to move forward
1063
00:39:52,930 --> 00:39:54,630
whether you want it to or not.
1064
00:39:54,630 --> 00:39:57,250
What excites you about
Canadian agriculture?
1065
00:39:57,250 --> 00:39:59,010
The biggest one is
the speed of change.
1066
00:39:59,010 --> 00:40:00,510
I can remember
when I was a kid
1067
00:40:00,510 --> 00:40:04,490
and probably a decade ago
things changed, but not a lot.
1068
00:40:04,490 --> 00:40:09,370
And now in the last decade,
I have seen farms become things
1069
00:40:09,370 --> 00:40:10,850
that I never thought
was possible,
1070
00:40:10,850 --> 00:40:13,360
whether it's technology,
whether it's data,
1071
00:40:13,870 --> 00:40:16,490
whether it's just the mindsets
of the farms today.
1072
00:40:17,140 --> 00:40:19,170
We're starting to see
something special in agriculture
1073
00:40:19,170 --> 00:40:21,860
and we're starting to adapt
to the speed of change.
1074
00:40:21,860 --> 00:40:23,290
It almost feels like
the Wizard of Oz.
1075
00:40:23,290 --> 00:40:25,040
We're not in Kansas
anymore, right?
1076
00:40:26,410 --> 00:40:28,190
I'm excited
for the next generation.
1077
00:40:28,190 --> 00:40:30,040
I'm seeing
the next set of farmers
1078
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:32,460
that are coming up
and they love technology
1079
00:40:32,460 --> 00:40:34,560
and they don't want to be
the same as the past
1080
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:36,140
and I've had
lots of conversations.
1081
00:40:36,140 --> 00:40:37,490
I do speaking for FCC.
1082
00:40:37,490 --> 00:40:39,750
At their Young Farmer Summits,
I'm almost excited
1083
00:40:39,750 --> 00:40:41,780
because they don't want
to be the same.
1084
00:40:41,780 --> 00:40:43,390
They're looking
just to be different,
1085
00:40:43,390 --> 00:40:45,170
and that's what agriculture
has been missing.
1086
00:40:45,170 --> 00:40:47,690
We've realized there was
a secret sauce of how we do it
1087
00:40:47,690 --> 00:40:49,070
and everybody kind of did it.
1088
00:40:49,070 --> 00:40:52,020
And now all of a sudden we're
starting to get some new ideas,
1089
00:40:52,020 --> 00:40:53,890
and new ideas lead
to new technologies
1090
00:40:53,890 --> 00:40:56,210
and new innovations
and just change.
1091
00:40:56,210 --> 00:40:59,480
So for me, even from
when I started farming to today,
1092
00:41:00,140 --> 00:41:01,740
it's not the same ball game.
1093
00:41:02,750 --> 00:41:04,610
Everybody's recipe is
a little bit different now.
1094
00:41:04,610 --> 00:41:06,280
You don't have to follow
the same formula
1095
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:07,940
for every single farm,
1096
00:41:07,940 --> 00:41:09,820
and that really
makes it exciting.
1097
00:41:09,820 --> 00:41:13,490
People can pursue their
interests and their passions
1098
00:41:13,490 --> 00:41:15,700
and still have
something successful.
1099
00:41:15,700 --> 00:41:17,970
And success is independent
in each farm.
1100
00:41:17,970 --> 00:41:19,400
Not everybody wants to grow.
1101
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:21,030
Some want to be
pedigreed seed owners
1102
00:41:21,030 --> 00:41:22,600
or some want to run a retail
1103
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:24,740
or some want to focus
on the technology side.
1104
00:41:24,740 --> 00:41:28,050
It's quite interesting to see
the diversification happening.
1105
00:41:28,050 --> 00:41:29,860
No farm has the same goals.
1106
00:41:29,860 --> 00:41:32,890
When you see the 10-year goals
of everybody at Farmer Coach,
1107
00:41:32,890 --> 00:41:35,420
they're not the same
and that's a good thing.
1108
00:41:35,420 --> 00:41:37,090
In the past, I think
they've always been the same:
1109
00:41:37,090 --> 00:41:39,300
“I want to grow acres,
I want to get bigger.”
1110
00:41:39,300 --> 00:41:42,180
That's not what's happening.
And there's lots that do,
1111
00:41:42,180 --> 00:41:44,220
but there's also lots
that want to be different,
1112
00:41:44,220 --> 00:41:45,600
and that's awesome.
1113
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:46,850
Well, thank you so much
for this.
1114
00:41:46,850 --> 00:41:48,440
I really enjoyed
our conversation
1115
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:51,660
and I'm sure I'm going to end
this call
1116
00:41:51,660 --> 00:41:53,820
with a million other questions
that I could have asked you,
1117
00:41:53,820 --> 00:41:56,040
but we'll have to save that
for another time.
1118
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:57,640
That's good. I enjoyed it.
1119
00:41:58,570 --> 00:42:00,490
What an amazing conversation
I had with Evan.
1120
00:42:00,490 --> 00:42:01,860
Like Evan said,
1121
00:42:01,860 --> 00:42:04,400
farming certainly has changed
in the last decade,
1122
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:05,810
and having a CEO mindset
1123
00:42:05,810 --> 00:42:07,170
combined with
the proper procedures,
1124
00:42:07,170 --> 00:42:09,420
people and processes
could be your next step
1125
00:42:09,420 --> 00:42:11,210
to making the farm
a self-sufficient
1126
00:42:11,210 --> 00:42:14,010
and sustainable business.
So how do we make that happen?
1127
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:16,920
That shift in mindset
can be difficult,
1128
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:18,700
especially as
a generation shift,
1129
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:21,430
but it starts with
effective conversations.
1130
00:42:22,170 --> 00:42:24,990
Whether a team member
is stepping up or stepping back,
1131
00:42:24,990 --> 00:42:26,330
be clear about their roles
1132
00:42:26,330 --> 00:42:28,940
and the goals that
everyone wants to reach,
1133
00:42:28,940 --> 00:42:30,589
either individually
or as a team.
1134
00:42:31,240 --> 00:42:34,270
For those taking a step back,
this new mindset is different,
1135
00:42:34,270 --> 00:42:36,600
but their goals can fit into
what they want their lifestyle
1136
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:38,310
and retirement to look like.
1137
00:42:38,310 --> 00:42:40,650
You don't have to be in a
boardroom if you don't want to,
1138
00:42:40,650 --> 00:42:43,050
but you can if you do.
The choice is yours.
1139
00:42:44,110 --> 00:42:45,890
For the new
or evolving team members,
1140
00:42:45,890 --> 00:42:47,570
be clear about the value
that each partner
1141
00:42:47,570 --> 00:42:49,260
brings to that boardroom table,
1142
00:42:49,260 --> 00:42:51,450
how they're going to be
compensated for their talent,
1143
00:42:51,450 --> 00:42:53,980
and be clear about
the logistics of the operation.
1144
00:42:53,980 --> 00:42:57,130
Things like meeting expectations
and decision-making.
1145
00:42:57,130 --> 00:42:58,500
Learn how to separate emotion
1146
00:42:58,500 --> 00:43:00,870
from those million-dollar
business decisions.
1147
00:43:00,870 --> 00:43:02,270
But when it does get tough,
1148
00:43:02,270 --> 00:43:04,490
don't let those bushfires
rage into blowouts
1149
00:43:04,490 --> 00:43:05,980
that could have been avoided.
1150
00:43:05,980 --> 00:43:09,260
No issues are so massive that
there isn't a viable solution.
1151
00:43:09,810 --> 00:43:11,950
The numerous challenges
within the industry
1152
00:43:11,950 --> 00:43:13,950
should not take away
from all the exciting things
1153
00:43:13,950 --> 00:43:15,150
that are happening,
1154
00:43:15,150 --> 00:43:17,500
especially as the next
generation takes the reins
1155
00:43:17,500 --> 00:43:18,710
and finds new innovations
1156
00:43:18,710 --> 00:43:21,220
and ideas to keep
the industry moving forward.
1157
00:43:25,110 --> 00:43:28,490
Thanks for listening to this
first episode of season four.
1158
00:43:28,490 --> 00:43:30,820
We hope you were able
to take away some considerations
1159
00:43:30,820 --> 00:43:34,100
for how you can apply a CEO
mindset to your own operation,
1160
00:43:34,780 --> 00:43:36,580
or if you work with farmers,
1161
00:43:36,580 --> 00:43:39,370
what your role in the shifting
perspective might look like.
1162
00:43:39,370 --> 00:43:40,820
Check the show notes
of this episode
1163
00:43:40,820 --> 00:43:42,840
for further reading
and resources
1164
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:44,440
related to our discussion.
1165
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:46,550
If this episode resonated
with you,
1166
00:43:46,550 --> 00:43:49,640
be sure to like, subscribe,
and share with your friends.
1167
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:52,320
And if you're so inclined,
go ahead and leave us a comment.
1168
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:53,650
Your feedback
helps us figure out
1169
00:43:53,650 --> 00:43:55,760
what's valuable to you
as a listener.
1170
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:04,520
This podcast has been
brought to you by AgExpert
1171
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:05,840
– Farm Management
software designed
1172
00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:08,930
for Canadian agriculture.
Learn more at agexpert.ca.
1173
00:44:09,950 --> 00:44:12,250
The FCC Knowledge Podcast
is a Farm Credit
1174
00:44:12,250 --> 00:44:14,120
Canada production
in collaboration
1175
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:15,720
with Roman Empire
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