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Aimée: From AgExpert,
it's the FCC Knowledge Podcast,
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a show that features
real Canadians in agriculture,
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real stories
and real good conversations
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about the business of farming.
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I'm your host Aimée Stang.
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Erin: I'm excited to see kids
graduate from high school
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and want to go either back to the farm
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or explore how their interests
and their skills
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can complement the ag industry.
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Aimée: Human resources and training
is always a challenge,
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especially on the farm,
as farmers and ranchers
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take a more business-centered
approach to their operations.
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Today we're talking with Saskatchewan
rancher Erin McKnight
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about how she created training content
for her family's ranch
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to provide a better employee
onboarding experience.
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Erin leaned on her farming and nursing
background and her need to balance work
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off the farm with her family
and ranch responsibilities
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to not only pursue
her passion for ranching,
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but also saw some major challenges
in her business along the way.
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Starting with a handbook,
Erin began developing videos, modules,
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and small assignments
to train her own employees
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and give herself some
peace of mind as an employer.
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So welcome to the podcast, Erin.
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Would you like to tell us a little bit
about yourself and your farm?
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Erin: My husband and I ranch
in the Sandhills of Saskatchewan.
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We live here with our two boys.
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They are 8 and 10,
and we have a lot of family.
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My husband's family is in ranching.
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And they live around us,
within maybe an hour away.
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If there's branding season,
we're constantly at each other's houses.
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Same with weaning.
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And basically, if anyone needs
a helping hand, we're there for them.
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But as far as the books go,
we all run our own operations.
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Aimée: What is your background?
You said your family farms as well?
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Erin: I was born on a mixed farm and ranch
in a tiny little town in Saskatchewan.
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After high school, I went off
to university to pursue a nursing career,
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and for some reason I met a young man
and I ended up back in Saskatchewan.
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Aimée: So, you have some crop land?
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Erin: Yes. The majority of our ranch
is native and tame grass.
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And then we do have
a few thousand acres of cultivated
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land that we either
will seed into green feed
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or we rent out a few of the acres
from time to time.
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So it is mostly native and tame grass
and then we do a bunch of, like,
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haying and that sort of stuff.
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We don't do any of our
own seeding at the moment.
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We hire that out.
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We run about 750 cow calf pairs,
give or take,
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depending on the year
and the climate and all the stuff,
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but 750 cow calf pairs is our baseline.
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Aimée: And for those people
who aren't familiar with the Sandhills
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region of Saskatchewan,
that's pretty rough terrain.
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Erin: It is very rough.
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Not all of the Sandhills are,
but where we are specifically
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is very choppy and it's very rough
and it's very hard to manage,
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or it takes some getting used to.
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We do a lot of it on horseback;
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it's just too rough
for all-terrain vehicles.
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We can take them down a few trails
to check water and whatnot,
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but when it comes to
actually checking on cattle,
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it's on horse or my husband
then does fly a small airplane
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to help basically eliminate
the dead space.
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So he can go up and fly around
for 20 minutes.
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He can see, first of all,
that there's water in all the troughs
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and second of all, you know, that there
are no cattle in this corner of the field.
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Aimée: Mm-hm.
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Erin: And that just eliminates
the time we don't have to ride around
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looking for nothing. It is very handy.
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Aimée: You're not
a nurse anymore full-time?
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Erin: No.
Aimée: You shifted to ranching full-time.
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Erin: So, I finished nursing school
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and moved out to the ranch
with my husband,
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and I had to drive an hour into work,
work 12 hours and drive an hour home.
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We have one full-time hired person here
at all times
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and then seasonally we'll have,
like, maybe one or two
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-extra part-time employees.
-Aimée: Mm-hm.
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Erin: I would just get back in the groove
of things at work and, like,
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maybe we would lose an employee.
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So then I would have to take some time off
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as I wasn't able to drop
my kids off at daycare
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or anything when I went to work
because I went through town
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at too early of an hour and too late.
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So it was up to my husband
to do all of the ranching stuff
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and either get our small kids
to daycare and back,
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which was 20 minutes there
and 20 minutes back,
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and also do all of the things.
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So I would take some time off
and I would jump in and I would help
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and then we would get
somebody new to work for us,
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and we would take some time
to orientate them.
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And then I would go back to work,
and then it would happen again.
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[Laughter]
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Erin: I just wasn't able to
fully be committed
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and have my head in my nursing career,
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so I just decided
to be all in at the ranch.
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Aimée: Was that a
difficult decision for you?
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Erin: It is still a difficult decision.
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It was very hard, but in reality,
I am very happy where I am
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and I love doing the work on the ranch.
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That's probably where my passion is.
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Aimée: You were talking about
the cycle of having an employee
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and then having the employee leave,
and then recruiting somebody new
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and then having them leave.
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So obviously this was something
that was a challenge for you on the farm.
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Erin: Every time I went back to nursing,
I would just jump right back in, right?
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Like,
I already had critical thinking down.
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I knew how to do that.
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And I had my base knowledge
that I already knew from university
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and previous experiences, but anything
that had changed while I was gone,
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a nursing department is very efficient.
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Aimée: Right. You'd have to be.
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Erin: And they have
all these little checklists and, like,
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they have all the information
you need right at your fingertips.
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So it's easy to look things up.
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But there's nothing like that in ranching,
and so I would have to train
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all these people in every little aspect
and trust that they were making
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medication dosages calculated properly.
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So I started to take the things
that I had in my nursing unit
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and bring them to the farm.
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I started making little checklists
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and some videos
and just a lot of little tutorials.
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Every time I would do something and teach
someone something, then I would be, like,
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"Okay, now I need to go and write down
what it is and how I did that,"
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so that I don't have to necessarily
think about it all the next time.
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I can show them
where to find the information.
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Aimée: That's a great idea.
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I mean, we interviewed
an accountant on the podcast
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and he said when he started accounting,
he was given an employee manual.
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And so we don't really think about
doing that in farming and ranching.
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It's always primarily you that
train the new employee every time?
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Erin: I would do, like,
the orientation process
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and then they head out to work
primarily with my husband.
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I actually did create a handbook
for our new staff,
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-which is very nerdy of me.
-[Laughter]
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Erin: But a while back, we actually had
somebody report us to the Labour Board,
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which was very eye opening to me,
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because in nursing
you write everything down.
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If it wasn't wrote [sic] down,
it didn't happen.
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And so when the Labour Board called
me and they wanted some records—
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and some of them I didn't have,
and some of them I just didn't have
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recorded and collected properly.
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Like, I had to go back
and find proof to defend myself.
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And in the end,
I hadn't done anything wrong,
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but it still was a very long process
for me to find all the information
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that I needed to prove that I had
indeed paid this person properly
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and as we agreed to.
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And it was actually, like, some text
messages that probably saved my butt.
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So, then I was, like, "Oh my goodness,
I need to write things down better."
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So then I created a handbook that was,
like, this is when you'll get paid,
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this is how you'll get paid,
this is how you can give me your hours,
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all that sort of stuff.
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And when I hired someone, I would
go through the handbook with them
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and we would initial each page together,
so I knew that we were on the same page.
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And then I would have them
sign a written contract that said
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how much they were going to work,
where they were going to get paid,
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all that sort of stuff
so that in the future,
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nobody can contest that.
It was written down.
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I had it. It was covering my butt.
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Aimée: And your husband, Steve,
when you started documenting these things
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and making videos and making a manual,
was he on board with that?
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Or did he think, "Oh, is this overkill?"
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Erin: I think he was kind of, like,
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"I'm glad you're doing it.
I don't want to."
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[Laughter] Erin:
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Yes, he probably maybe was, like,
"Is this necessary?"
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But I mean, I do think that having
the Labour Board call you and be, like,
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"Hey, where's this information?"
was very eye-opening.
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And it was, like, okay,
maybe we do need to do this.
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And I think he was just thankful that
we learned to do it
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before it was actually a problem.
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Aimée: Yes, and there's nothing like
someone external validating your choices.
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You said you've created a handbook
and orientation for new staff,
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so clearly this is something that
you've gotten really passionate about.
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It's clearly important because, I mean,
there could be some confusion
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or there could be some
serious impacts on your business
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if something gets
miscommunicated or misinterpreted.
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Erin: Even if you only employ
one person,
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you're still an employer,
you're still a business.
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And as much as I rely on that person
to show up to work,
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they are relying on me
to be a good employer.
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Most times someone comes to work
for you and we're doing these jobs,
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we're getting work done,
we're doing that,
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but there is an entire relationship there
of employee and employer
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that I would say
gets set to the side sometimes.
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We just have so many tasks on the ranch
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that if I personally had to show
every new hire how to do everything,
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it would take so much time
that neither I nor my business has.
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And that's where I started to develop
those videos and checklists,
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and then putting them into an app
so that people that don't work for me
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can also utilize them,
which is something I'm very excited about.
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Aimée: Has that impacted your relationship
with your employee?
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Has it impacted the longevity
or the retention so far
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since you've started this?
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Erin: I think it is empowering to them.
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They have that confidence in that
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they have a little bit of a pre-exposure
to most things,
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so they don't need me there
with them 24/7.
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So they don't necessarily
feel like my right-hand man.
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They feel like they have more input
and I think they feel more valued.
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Aimée: More of a stake in the business?
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Erin: Yes, also more comfortable.
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If somebody is constantly,
"I don't know how to do this,"
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or, "I don't feel comfortable doing this,"
they're not likely to stick around.
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And they can solve problems more easily
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because they have all this information
at their fingertips.
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They're out in the field
and they come across something,
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they can call me.
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Whether both of us have cell service
or not, that's questionable.
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[Laughter]
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Erin: But they can bring it up
on their phone and they can go,
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"Oh okay, this is what I can try."
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And they just feel like they've done
so much more than just report problems.
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Aimée: There's a lot of confidence
that gets built in self-autonomy like that
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and a lot of employee satisfaction,
I would suspect.
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Erin: Yes.
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by AgExpert farm management software
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00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:46,893
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Learn more at agexpert.ca.
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Aimée: Can you give us some examples
of some of the videos that you've created?
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Erin: Yes,
I lumped them together in modules.
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So there's an entire module
on transportation and hauling,
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and how to strap a ton of cell blocks
onto your flat deck properly,
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or why it's important to pen your animals
up properly in a stock trailer.
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And then, like,
checking the water for cows.
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You can go out and check water,
but I want to actually know
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much more than if the water is just there.
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So it goes through all of
the different things you can check
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while you're checking water.
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And also, if there is no water,
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what I need to know to fix that
or what you can do to troubleshoot it
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-while you're out there. -Aimée: That's
brilliant.
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And you had some videos on wildfires?
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Erin: Yes, that is a big one out here.
We live in the Sandhills.
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It's a very large—probably 100,000 acres
plus of just native grassland.
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-Not all of that is mine.
-[Laughter]
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Aimée: Yes, let's specify that, right?
235
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Erin: Yeah. But when a wildfire happens,
what do you do?
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It's not the same as it would be,
you know, in a shop in town
237
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at your welding shop.
It's not a fire extinguisher situation.
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So how to find your location
on your phone,
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how to share it with somebody,
who and what to call
240
00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:05,293
and then, like, how to stay safe
and how to watch from a distance
241
00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:08,213
and just what to do when a wildfire—
when you come across one.
242
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We used to not leave the ranch
because we are too afraid to be gone
243
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in certain dry seasons
and we still don't go very far.
244
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But if a lightning strike happens,
245
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I'm not terrified that my hired people
are going to be hurt.
246
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They know how to stay safe.
247
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Aimée: That's huge,
even for your peace of mind.
248
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Erin: Safety is a huge piece of it.
I don't want anyone to get hurt ever.
249
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And there's no safety training out there
250
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that will prepare you for all of
the pieces of farm and ranching.
251
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Like,
there's just so many different things.
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Aimée: You've created videos
for branding as well.
253
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Erin: Yes, and this one especially is fun.
254
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My kids help by branding.
255
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Sometimes, like,
the hired person's kids might come,
256
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or we have people that
are visiting from different countries,
257
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and they can go through
and have access to this little course.
258
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And that way they just know everything
that's going on and how to, like,
259
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have some awareness in the branding pen.
260
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They know how to, like,
safely put sharps away,
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how to fill medication syringes
and just— they have, like,
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a little bit of a pre-expectation
of what's going to happen,
263
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which definitely keeps people
safe for one thing,
264
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but also it gets them excited
to get in there and get their hands dirty.
265
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Aimée: Branding is such a social activity.
266
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That's such a great thing
that you have that preparation
267
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for people participating.
Were you surprised?
268
00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:30,053
Did you expect to have this
level of a requirement
269
00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:34,773
to manage your human resources when you
decided to go back to the farm full time?
270
00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:36,653
Erin: No, not at all.
271
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It is interesting to me how farms
and ranches have evolved,
272
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whether that's, like,
all the policy that's in place
273
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and all the different paperwork
and the accounting
274
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and all that stuff
and the human resources.
275
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20 years ago you probably paid
someone cash and they showed up to work
276
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-and that was it.
-[Laughter]
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Erin: And now there's payroll
and there's records of employment
278
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and all of the things.
And I had no idea about any of it.
279
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Aimée: So, you learned on the fly as well?
280
00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:04,893
Erin: I did.
281
00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:07,973
I learned a lot of it on the fly
and a lot of it by being, like,
282
00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:10,293
"Oh, I should have done that already."
283
00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:12,453
Aimée: What is the role
of clear communication
284
00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:14,742
and setting expectations with your team?
285
00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:17,213
Erin: There's a couple of things here.
286
00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:19,653
When I went to university
for my Bachelors [sic] of Nursing,
287
00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:23,413
the entire first year of school
was communication,
288
00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:25,613
and I was less than impressed.
289
00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:28,413
I was confused. I signed up for nursing.
Like, what is this?
290
00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:31,893
But it wasn't long after I started nursing
that I actually realized
291
00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:33,973
that it might be the most important piece.
292
00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:38,053
Being able to clearly communicate
among your team is so important.
293
00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:42,133
Being able to communicate expectations
and your clear roles during the day,
294
00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:46,373
it helps everyone feel sure of themselves,
confident in their role,
295
00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:49,573
and it helps everyone understand
why their role is important
296
00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:52,413
and why they have to do that job that way,
297
00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:55,173
because everyone else's job
is working in unison.
298
00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:57,293
It's not always about
time and efficiency.
299
00:14:57,360 --> 00:14:59,693
Safety is the major consideration.
300
00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:01,333
We kind of forget about it
301
00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:03,373
because if everyone's safe,
we're not thinking about it.
302
00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:06,413
But there's just so many spots
that it could go wrong.
303
00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:09,773
I read this somewhere once, that,
"Unspoken expectations
304
00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:12,533
-are premeditated resentments."
-[Laughter]
305
00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:13,893
Aimée: That's a very good quote.
306
00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:15,333
Erin: And I loved it because, you know...
Aimée: Yes.
307
00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:17,333
Erin: It is, because if you're not
telling somebody, you know,
308
00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:19,813
"This is the job I want you to do
to this extent,"
309
00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:22,533
if you're telling them part of the job
or part of the piece
310
00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:24,693
and they don't do it properly,
you're going to be upset
311
00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:27,373
because it didn't go
as you expected it to.
312
00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:31,333
But really, it's up to you as the employer
to give them the full expectation.
313
00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:33,373
Aimée: So, do you think that
these expectations that you're setting
314
00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:36,333
and this communication that you're
establishing with your employee
315
00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:41,453
is helping them see their role
as more of a career than a job?
316
00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:43,013
Erin: I think so.
317
00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:47,213
If you excel in your job
on a farmer ranch,
318
00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:49,293
there are ways to move up.
319
00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:52,973
And getting the job done is one thing,
but understanding it
320
00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:56,533
and being able to communicate properly
is probably one of the best ways
321
00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:58,293
to be able to move up in any job.
322
00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:01,173
Aimée: You can apply that to,
yes, any job. Like you said, right.
323
00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:03,133
Erin: If you can do the job, that's good.
324
00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:07,133
But if you can communicate about
what's happening and why,
325
00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:09,653
you're going to go somewhere.
But if you're just nose to the grind,
326
00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:11,653
doing your job and not talking to anyone,
you're...
327
00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:13,293
Aimée: You could stay stagnant.
328
00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:14,453
Erin: Yes, exactly.
329
00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:18,173
Aimée: So, you've taken these learnings
and your videos and the resources
330
00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:20,373
and the tools, and other businesses
and employees in ranching
331
00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:22,813
can take advantage of what you've done?
332
00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:26,133
Erin: I didn't develop an app myself.
333
00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:29,173
I developed the videos
and all of the content
334
00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:33,133
and I put it on a platform
for others to be able to access.
335
00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:37,413
It's very exciting for me in terms
of employees and future employees
336
00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:40,853
and people who don't have a farming,
or ranching background
337
00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:44,853
but are very curious and want to do
a stint on a farmer ranch.
338
00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:47,973
Often if you don't have experience,
you're turned away.
339
00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:52,573
But at least this way maybe somebody
will take a chance on you or something
340
00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:54,613
because you've had some exposure.
341
00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:56,453
Maybe you're mechanically inclined.
342
00:16:56,520 --> 00:17:01,013
But again, no farm or ranch experience
as farm and ranch kids are getting to be
343
00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:02,373
few and far.
344
00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:06,413
It's not like we all have that grandparent
connection to a farmer ranch anymore.
345
00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:10,293
My hope is that anybody
can access this app
346
00:17:10,360 --> 00:17:14,213
and feel a little more connected and they
could jump in and get their hands dirty,
347
00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:16,733
whether that's volunteering
or getting a job.
348
00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:19,053
Or maybe you're
new to the farm or ranch.
349
00:17:19,120 --> 00:17:21,693
Maybe you just moved on
to one with a partner,
350
00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:25,213
but you're a little shy
and not too sure how to get involved.
351
00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:27,253
Might just be that
little bit of confidence
352
00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:28,533
that you need to get in there.
353
00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:31,533
Aimée: Have you hired people
with no ranching experience before?
354
00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:35,773
Erin: Yes, I've hired people
with no ranching experience.
355
00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:38,893
When I hire anybody,
we always just take into account,
356
00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:41,813
like,
what is their skill set and utilize that,
357
00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:43,813
give them the jobs that they're good at,
358
00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:46,213
and then they slowly
get a taste for all the rest
359
00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:48,493
and they get better
at things as they grow.
360
00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:50,853
I'm not going to hire somebody
who has no ranching experience
361
00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:53,213
and put them on a horse and say,
"Go check the cows."
362
00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:56,333
In this case, like, we hired somebody
who has very little ranching experience.
363
00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:57,813
Well, he's been a welder before.
364
00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:00,773
Okay, so I'm going to use
your welding experience
365
00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:02,973
and your mechanically-inclined brain.
366
00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:06,013
And then we're going to go together
and learn about the cattle side of things.
367
00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:09,133
Aimée: You're totally right.
Labour is such an issue in agriculture.
368
00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:12,493
And there are people that are interested,
and it's just, where to start?
369
00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:14,813
And how do you build that confidence
as an employer too,
370
00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:17,213
that you're going to be finding someone
that can
371
00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:19,293
integrate themselves into your business,
372
00:18:19,360 --> 00:18:22,333
can learn the things that they need
to learn and be an asset to your business?
373
00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:25,573
Because if it's taking you longer,
or if you have to do the work yourself,
374
00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:28,053
or it's taking you the time
to invest in them
375
00:18:28,120 --> 00:18:31,053
or to show them how to do things,
or just to assume, like you said,
376
00:18:31,120 --> 00:18:33,573
it's probably not worth
the investment of time.
377
00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:37,773
Erin: Absolutely. Managing people
and tasks is a huge job in itself
378
00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:40,773
and a common mindset
in our industry is probably,
379
00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:43,293
"If I have to babysit them
I might as well do it myself."
380
00:18:43,360 --> 00:18:47,053
And I strongly believe
that it doesn't have to be that way.
381
00:18:47,120 --> 00:18:52,573
Aimée: This app, have you had people
starting to use it outside of your firm?
382
00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:58,293
Erin: Mostly at this time, I've had people
within our organization and some, like,
383
00:18:58,360 --> 00:19:00,653
family and close friends
that I've had go through it
384
00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:02,773
just to give me some feedback
385
00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:05,173
before I really throw it out there
into the world.
386
00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:08,373
Aimée: What was the feedback
been like so far with your testers?
387
00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:09,653
Erin: It's been really good.
388
00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:12,533
Some of the stuff in there is things
you wouldn't think about it
389
00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:14,293
until you were face to face with it.
390
00:19:14,360 --> 00:19:18,733
There's a bunch of, like, flow charts
within it that if this happens, look here.
391
00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:20,053
If that happens, look there.
392
00:19:20,120 --> 00:19:22,933
And, like, there's homework
with every section as well.
393
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:26,533
It's, like,
find out who your power company
394
00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:28,573
is and the phone number
that you would call if the power is out.
395
00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:30,493
Put that in your phone, right?
396
00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:33,733
It's not big homework,
but it's just finding those pieces
397
00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:37,093
that only apply to you and saving them
in your information.
398
00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:41,093
Aimée: What excites you
the most about the future of agriculture?
399
00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:42,893
Erin: It's just so exciting.
400
00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:45,973
It is the place to be, I think.
We are all here to stay.
401
00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:50,973
There's no other industry
that I feel is as sure as agriculture.
402
00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:54,213
Everybody needs to eat
and everybody always will.
403
00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:57,093
We were all told as kids,
or at least my generation was,
404
00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:00,773
to go and get a degree and that
agriculture was maybe not a good life.
405
00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:04,213
Urbanization was being pushed,
and I'm so excited to see people
406
00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:07,093
get more curious and involved
with where their food comes from
407
00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:10,253
and just come back to agriculture.
408
00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:14,373
There is, like, so much technology
and there's cool research happening.
409
00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:16,653
I'm excited to see
kids graduate from high school
410
00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:18,733
and want to go either back to the farm
411
00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:21,013
or explore how their interests
and their skills
412
00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:22,733
can complement the ag industry.
413
00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:25,293
Aimée: Yes, because we need
so many different skill sets
414
00:20:25,360 --> 00:20:26,773
-to grow this industry.
-Erin: So many.
415
00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:28,813
Aimée: It's very apparent
that you've taken a lot of the skills
416
00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:31,573
that you've learned
in your nursing career and education
417
00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:33,493
and applied them
back to your own business,
418
00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:35,413
which is amazing to see.
419
00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:37,333
Erin: You could take
anything in university
420
00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:39,613
and end up anywhere
further down the road.
421
00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:42,613
Aimée: What do those of us
in agriculture need to keep in mind
422
00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:44,847
as we work with others in the industry?
423
00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:48,533
Erin: I encourage everyone
just to build a strong team,
424
00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:53,573
not just within your operation,
but also with your industry partners.
425
00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:55,533
You know, you train your employees well,
426
00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:59,413
but you have to extend that same level
of clarity and guidance to your partners,
427
00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:01,733
clearly communicating about what you need,
428
00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:05,333
whether that's telling your parts guys
that you want the most affordable option
429
00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:07,733
or explaining that you need
the highest quality
430
00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:09,373
because you can't afford a return trip.
431
00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:12,573
You're constantly just showing
people how to work with you,
432
00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:15,213
taking time to talk with them,
build relationships.
433
00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:18,253
You're constantly training
and communicating
434
00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:20,133
throughout your whole life.
435
00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:24,533
The other side, when it comes
to what do we need to keep in mind
436
00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:27,493
as we work with others in agriculture,
is transparency.
437
00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:31,013
-I will die on the hill of transparency.
-[Laughter]
438
00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:35,493
I cannot emphasize enough how important
it is for us all to tell the truth.
439
00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:39,413
As a nurse, if I reported my patients'
vital signs or output incorrectly,
440
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:41,773
the physician's going
to prescribe something wrong,
441
00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:43,493
medication or treatment wise.
442
00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:45,413
And the same goes
for farming and ranching.
443
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:49,213
If we inflate the truth to, like,
protect our egos per se, you know,
444
00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:53,533
telling our neighbors how amazing our crop
was or claiming we had a perfect breed up,
445
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:55,253
we're never going to learn
from each other
446
00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:59,053
and in fact we'll probably end up
skewing the entire industry.
447
00:21:59,120 --> 00:22:04,013
Transparency is, like, to me the backbone
of progress and without honesty,
448
00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:07,093
we risk making so many flawed decisions.
449
00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:10,333
Transparency is, like,
the only way we can grow and improve
450
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:13,533
and support each other,
even if it's uncomfortable at times.
451
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:16,733
Aimée: This was a great discussion with
Erin about her approach to hands-on
452
00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:18,333
ranch employee training.
453
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:21,053
While at first glance it might appear
like an out-of-the-box approach,
454
00:22:21,120 --> 00:22:24,813
Erin was simply borrowing ideas from her
previous experiences and field of work
455
00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:28,533
to solve very real issues in agriculture,
human resource management.
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00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:31,773
We've said it before on this podcast
that no education is wasted,
457
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:34,813
and Erin sure proved that point
by leveraging her nursing background
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00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:36,453
to foster clear communications,
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00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:38,653
create an environment
where safety is a priority,
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00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:43,293
and turn the ranch employee role into
a career choice rather than just a job.
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00:22:43,360 --> 00:22:45,853
With labour being a consistent
challenge in the ag industry,
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00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:48,053
an investment
in her human resource strategy
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00:22:48,120 --> 00:22:50,800
is an investment
in the efficiency of her business.
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00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:57,213
Check the show notes for further reading
and resources related to this episode.
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00:22:57,280 --> 00:22:58,493
Did you enjoy this episode?
466
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:00,493
Be sure to share it
with your family and friends.
467
00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:04,213
Please do subscribe so you can be the
first to know when we drop new episodes.
468
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And if you have feedback
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469
00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:08,453
go ahead and leave us a review.
470
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Your feedback will help us make decisions
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471
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The FCC Knowledge Podcast
is a Farm Credit Canada production
472
00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:30,533
in collaboration
with Roman Empire Studios.
00:00:02,160 --> 00:00:05,333
Aimée: From AgExpert,
it's the FCC Knowledge Podcast,
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00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:07,853
a show that features
real Canadians in agriculture,
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00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:10,333
real stories
and real good conversations
4
00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:11,493
about the business of farming.
5
00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:13,260
I'm your host Aimée Stang.
6
00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:19,093
Erin: I'm excited to see kids
graduate from high school
7
00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:21,093
and want to go either back to the farm
8
00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:23,333
or explore how their interests
and their skills
9
00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:25,178
can complement the ag industry.
10
00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:30,693
Aimée: Human resources and training
is always a challenge,
11
00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:32,653
especially on the farm,
as farmers and ranchers
12
00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:35,533
take a more business-centered
approach to their operations.
13
00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:38,373
Today we're talking with Saskatchewan
rancher Erin McKnight
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00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:41,053
about how she created training content
for her family's ranch
15
00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:44,133
to provide a better employee
onboarding experience.
16
00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:47,693
Erin leaned on her farming and nursing
background and her need to balance work
17
00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:50,373
off the farm with her family
and ranch responsibilities
18
00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:52,653
to not only pursue
her passion for ranching,
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00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:56,333
but also saw some major challenges
in her business along the way.
20
00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:59,653
Starting with a handbook,
Erin began developing videos, modules,
21
00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:01,933
and small assignments
to train her own employees
22
00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:04,778
and give herself some
peace of mind as an employer.
23
00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:22,213
So welcome to the podcast, Erin.
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00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:26,333
Would you like to tell us a little bit
about yourself and your farm?
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00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:29,813
Erin: My husband and I ranch
in the Sandhills of Saskatchewan.
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00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:31,533
We live here with our two boys.
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00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:34,453
They are 8 and 10,
and we have a lot of family.
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00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:36,293
My husband's family is in ranching.
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00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:39,213
And they live around us,
within maybe an hour away.
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00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:42,533
If there's branding season,
we're constantly at each other's houses.
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00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:43,693
Same with weaning.
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00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:46,453
And basically, if anyone needs
a helping hand, we're there for them.
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00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:49,773
But as far as the books go,
we all run our own operations.
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00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:52,733
Aimée: What is your background?
You said your family farms as well?
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00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:56,973
Erin: I was born on a mixed farm and ranch
in a tiny little town in Saskatchewan.
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00:01:57,040 --> 00:02:00,813
After high school, I went off
to university to pursue a nursing career,
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00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:04,733
and for some reason I met a young man
and I ended up back in Saskatchewan.
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00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:06,744
Aimée: So, you have some crop land?
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00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:11,853
Erin: Yes. The majority of our ranch
is native and tame grass.
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00:02:11,920 --> 00:02:15,453
And then we do have
a few thousand acres of cultivated
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00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:18,573
land that we either
will seed into green feed
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00:02:18,640 --> 00:02:22,213
or we rent out a few of the acres
from time to time.
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00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:27,013
So it is mostly native and tame grass
and then we do a bunch of, like,
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00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:28,533
haying and that sort of stuff.
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00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:30,813
We don't do any of our
own seeding at the moment.
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00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:32,213
We hire that out.
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00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:35,773
We run about 750 cow calf pairs,
give or take,
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00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:38,533
depending on the year
and the climate and all the stuff,
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00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:41,740
but 750 cow calf pairs is our baseline.
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00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:45,373
Aimée: And for those people
who aren't familiar with the Sandhills
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00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:50,053
region of Saskatchewan,
that's pretty rough terrain.
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00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:51,453
Erin: It is very rough.
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00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:54,733
Not all of the Sandhills are,
but where we are specifically
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00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:58,533
is very choppy and it's very rough
and it's very hard to manage,
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00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:00,013
or it takes some getting used to.
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We do a lot of it on horseback;
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00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:03,973
it's just too rough
for all-terrain vehicles.
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00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:06,973
We can take them down a few trails
to check water and whatnot,
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00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:09,733
but when it comes to
actually checking on cattle,
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00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:14,053
it's on horse or my husband
then does fly a small airplane
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00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:16,413
to help basically eliminate
the dead space.
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00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:18,573
So he can go up and fly around
for 20 minutes.
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00:03:18,640 --> 00:03:21,653
He can see, first of all,
that there's water in all the troughs
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00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:26,213
and second of all, you know, that there
are no cattle in this corner of the field.
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00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:27,333
Aimée: Mm-hm.
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00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:30,933
Erin: And that just eliminates
the time we don't have to ride around
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00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:33,373
looking for nothing. It is very handy.
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00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:35,493
Aimée: You're not
a nurse anymore full-time?
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00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:38,213
Erin: No.
Aimée: You shifted to ranching full-time.
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Erin: So, I finished nursing school
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00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:41,533
and moved out to the ranch
with my husband,
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00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:46,773
and I had to drive an hour into work,
work 12 hours and drive an hour home.
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00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:49,693
We have one full-time hired person here
at all times
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00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:52,693
and then seasonally we'll have,
like, maybe one or two
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00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:54,927
-extra part-time employees.
-Aimée: Mm-hm.
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00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:59,133
Erin: I would just get back in the groove
of things at work and, like,
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00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:00,533
maybe we would lose an employee.
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00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:02,453
So then I would have to take some time off
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00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:05,213
as I wasn't able to drop
my kids off at daycare
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00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:08,533
or anything when I went to work
because I went through town
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00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:10,413
at too early of an hour and too late.
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00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:13,853
So it was up to my husband
to do all of the ranching stuff
83
00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:16,853
and either get our small kids
to daycare and back,
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00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:19,053
which was 20 minutes there
and 20 minutes back,
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00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:20,973
and also do all of the things.
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00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:24,173
So I would take some time off
and I would jump in and I would help
87
00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:26,453
and then we would get
somebody new to work for us,
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00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:29,093
and we would take some time
to orientate them.
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00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:32,093
And then I would go back to work,
and then it would happen again.
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00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:33,213
[Laughter]
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00:04:33,280 --> 00:04:36,613
Erin: I just wasn't able to
fully be committed
92
00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:40,613
and have my head in my nursing career,
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00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:44,173
so I just decided
to be all in at the ranch.
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00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:46,253
Aimée: Was that a
difficult decision for you?
95
00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:49,333
Erin: It is still a difficult decision.
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00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:53,293
It was very hard, but in reality,
I am very happy where I am
97
00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:56,493
and I love doing the work on the ranch.
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00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:58,973
That's probably where my passion is.
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00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:02,213
Aimée: You were talking about
the cycle of having an employee
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00:05:02,280 --> 00:05:05,213
and then having the employee leave,
and then recruiting somebody new
101
00:05:05,280 --> 00:05:06,413
and then having them leave.
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00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:10,880
So obviously this was something
that was a challenge for you on the farm.
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00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:15,853
Erin: Every time I went back to nursing,
I would just jump right back in, right?
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00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:18,653
Like,
I already had critical thinking down.
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00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:19,733
I knew how to do that.
106
00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:23,293
And I had my base knowledge
that I already knew from university
107
00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:27,253
and previous experiences, but anything
that had changed while I was gone,
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00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:30,173
a nursing department is very efficient.
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00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:32,093
Aimée: Right. You'd have to be.
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00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:35,133
Erin: And they have
all these little checklists and, like,
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00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:37,853
they have all the information
you need right at your fingertips.
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00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:39,813
So it's easy to look things up.
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00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:42,973
But there's nothing like that in ranching,
and so I would have to train
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00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:48,013
all these people in every little aspect
and trust that they were making
115
00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:51,173
medication dosages calculated properly.
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00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:55,133
So I started to take the things
that I had in my nursing unit
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00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:56,413
and bring them to the farm.
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00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:58,493
I started making little checklists
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00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:02,413
and some videos
and just a lot of little tutorials.
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00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:06,133
Every time I would do something and teach
someone something, then I would be, like,
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00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:09,013
"Okay, now I need to go and write down
what it is and how I did that,"
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00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:12,893
so that I don't have to necessarily
think about it all the next time.
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00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:15,693
I can show them
where to find the information.
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00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:16,973
Aimée: That's a great idea.
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00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:19,093
I mean, we interviewed
an accountant on the podcast
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00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:23,573
and he said when he started accounting,
he was given an employee manual.
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00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:28,333
And so we don't really think about
doing that in farming and ranching.
128
00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:32,453
It's always primarily you that
train the new employee every time?
129
00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:34,533
Erin: I would do, like,
the orientation process
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00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:38,253
and then they head out to work
primarily with my husband.
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00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:41,333
I actually did create a handbook
for our new staff,
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00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:43,333
-which is very nerdy of me.
-[Laughter]
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00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:47,733
Erin: But a while back, we actually had
somebody report us to the Labour Board,
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00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:49,253
which was very eye opening to me,
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00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:52,013
because in nursing
you write everything down.
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00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:54,373
If it wasn't wrote [sic] down,
it didn't happen.
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00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:57,733
And so when the Labour Board called
me and they wanted some records—
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00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:02,093
and some of them I didn't have,
and some of them I just didn't have
139
00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:04,053
recorded and collected properly.
140
00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:07,773
Like, I had to go back
and find proof to defend myself.
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00:07:07,840 --> 00:07:09,853
And in the end,
I hadn't done anything wrong,
142
00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:13,013
but it still was a very long process
for me to find all the information
143
00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:17,693
that I needed to prove that I had
indeed paid this person properly
144
00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:18,973
and as we agreed to.
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00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:22,253
And it was actually, like, some text
messages that probably saved my butt.
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00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:26,613
So, then I was, like, "Oh my goodness,
I need to write things down better."
147
00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:31,053
So then I created a handbook that was,
like, this is when you'll get paid,
148
00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:34,373
this is how you'll get paid,
this is how you can give me your hours,
149
00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:35,613
all that sort of stuff.
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00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:38,493
And when I hired someone, I would
go through the handbook with them
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00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:42,533
and we would initial each page together,
so I knew that we were on the same page.
152
00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:46,453
And then I would have them
sign a written contract that said
153
00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:49,373
how much they were going to work,
where they were going to get paid,
154
00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:53,133
all that sort of stuff
so that in the future,
155
00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:55,980
nobody can contest that.
It was written down.
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00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:59,213
I had it. It was covering my butt.
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00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:02,333
Aimée: And your husband, Steve,
when you started documenting these things
158
00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:05,973
and making videos and making a manual,
was he on board with that?
159
00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:08,333
Or did he think, "Oh, is this overkill?"
160
00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:10,133
Erin: I think he was kind of, like,
161
00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:12,093
"I'm glad you're doing it.
I don't want to."
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00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:13,453
[Laughter] Erin:
163
00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:15,973
Yes, he probably maybe was, like,
"Is this necessary?"
164
00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:19,693
But I mean, I do think that having
the Labour Board call you and be, like,
165
00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:21,933
"Hey, where's this information?"
was very eye-opening.
166
00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:23,733
And it was, like, okay,
maybe we do need to do this.
167
00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:27,813
And I think he was just thankful that
we learned to do it
168
00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:29,653
before it was actually a problem.
169
00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:33,613
Aimée: Yes, and there's nothing like
someone external validating your choices.
170
00:08:33,680 --> 00:08:36,973
You said you've created a handbook
and orientation for new staff,
171
00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:40,413
so clearly this is something that
you've gotten really passionate about.
172
00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:43,813
It's clearly important because, I mean,
there could be some confusion
173
00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:46,813
or there could be some
serious impacts on your business
174
00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:49,853
if something gets
miscommunicated or misinterpreted.
175
00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:52,493
Erin: Even if you only employ
one person,
176
00:08:52,560 --> 00:08:54,973
you're still an employer,
you're still a business.
177
00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:58,413
And as much as I rely on that person
to show up to work,
178
00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:01,653
they are relying on me
to be a good employer.
179
00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:03,933
Most times someone comes to work
for you and we're doing these jobs,
180
00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:05,893
we're getting work done,
we're doing that,
181
00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:09,493
but there is an entire relationship there
of employee and employer
182
00:09:09,560 --> 00:09:13,573
that I would say
gets set to the side sometimes.
183
00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:15,613
We just have so many tasks on the ranch
184
00:09:15,680 --> 00:09:20,613
that if I personally had to show
every new hire how to do everything,
185
00:09:20,680 --> 00:09:24,173
it would take so much time
that neither I nor my business has.
186
00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:27,173
And that's where I started to develop
those videos and checklists,
187
00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:31,693
and then putting them into an app
so that people that don't work for me
188
00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:34,733
can also utilize them,
which is something I'm very excited about.
189
00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:37,653
Aimée: Has that impacted your relationship
with your employee?
190
00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:41,253
Has it impacted the longevity
or the retention so far
191
00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:42,533
since you've started this?
192
00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:44,693
Erin: I think it is empowering to them.
193
00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:46,293
They have that confidence in that
194
00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:48,893
they have a little bit of a pre-exposure
to most things,
195
00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:52,173
so they don't need me there
with them 24/7.
196
00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:55,053
So they don't necessarily
feel like my right-hand man.
197
00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:58,973
They feel like they have more input
and I think they feel more valued.
198
00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:00,973
Aimée: More of a stake in the business?
199
00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:03,013
Erin: Yes, also more comfortable.
200
00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:05,213
If somebody is constantly,
"I don't know how to do this,"
201
00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:09,093
or, "I don't feel comfortable doing this,"
they're not likely to stick around.
202
00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:11,333
And they can solve problems more easily
203
00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:14,573
because they have all this information
at their fingertips.
204
00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:17,053
They're out in the field
and they come across something,
205
00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:18,493
they can call me.
206
00:10:18,560 --> 00:10:21,453
Whether both of us have cell service
or not, that's questionable.
207
00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:22,613
[Laughter]
208
00:10:22,680 --> 00:10:24,933
Erin: But they can bring it up
on their phone and they can go,
209
00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:26,573
"Oh okay, this is what I can try."
210
00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:31,533
And they just feel like they've done
so much more than just report problems.
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Aimée: There's a lot of confidence
that gets built in self-autonomy like that
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and a lot of employee satisfaction,
I would suspect.
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Erin: Yes.
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Ad: This podcast has been brought to you
by AgExpert farm management software
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designed for Canadian agriculture.
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Learn more at agexpert.ca.
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Aimée: Can you give us some examples
of some of the videos that you've created?
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Erin: Yes,
I lumped them together in modules.
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So there's an entire module
on transportation and hauling,
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and how to strap a ton of cell blocks
onto your flat deck properly,
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or why it's important to pen your animals
up properly in a stock trailer.
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And then, like,
checking the water for cows.
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You can go out and check water,
but I want to actually know
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much more than if the water is just there.
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So it goes through all of
the different things you can check
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while you're checking water.
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And also, if there is no water,
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what I need to know to fix that
or what you can do to troubleshoot it
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-while you're out there. -Aimée: That's
brilliant.
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And you had some videos on wildfires?
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Erin: Yes, that is a big one out here.
We live in the Sandhills.
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It's a very large—probably 100,000 acres
plus of just native grassland.
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-Not all of that is mine.
-[Laughter]
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Aimée: Yes, let's specify that, right?
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Erin: Yeah. But when a wildfire happens,
what do you do?
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It's not the same as it would be,
you know, in a shop in town
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at your welding shop.
It's not a fire extinguisher situation.
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So how to find your location
on your phone,
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how to share it with somebody,
who and what to call
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and then, like, how to stay safe
and how to watch from a distance
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and just what to do when a wildfire—
when you come across one.
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We used to not leave the ranch
because we are too afraid to be gone
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in certain dry seasons
and we still don't go very far.
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But if a lightning strike happens,
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I'm not terrified that my hired people
are going to be hurt.
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They know how to stay safe.
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Aimée: That's huge,
even for your peace of mind.
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Erin: Safety is a huge piece of it.
I don't want anyone to get hurt ever.
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And there's no safety training out there
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that will prepare you for all of
the pieces of farm and ranching.
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Like,
there's just so many different things.
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Aimée: You've created videos
for branding as well.
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Erin: Yes, and this one especially is fun.
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My kids help by branding.
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Sometimes, like,
the hired person's kids might come,
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or we have people that
are visiting from different countries,
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and they can go through
and have access to this little course.
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And that way they just know everything
that's going on and how to, like,
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have some awareness in the branding pen.
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They know how to, like,
safely put sharps away,
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how to fill medication syringes
and just— they have, like,
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a little bit of a pre-expectation
of what's going to happen,
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which definitely keeps people
safe for one thing,
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but also it gets them excited
to get in there and get their hands dirty.
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Aimée: Branding is such a social activity.
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That's such a great thing
that you have that preparation
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for people participating.
Were you surprised?
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Did you expect to have this
level of a requirement
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to manage your human resources when you
decided to go back to the farm full time?
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Erin: No, not at all.
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It is interesting to me how farms
and ranches have evolved,
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whether that's, like,
all the policy that's in place
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and all the different paperwork
and the accounting
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and all that stuff
and the human resources.
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20 years ago you probably paid
someone cash and they showed up to work
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-and that was it.
-[Laughter]
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Erin: And now there's payroll
and there's records of employment
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and all of the things.
And I had no idea about any of it.
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Aimée: So, you learned on the fly as well?
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Erin: I did.
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I learned a lot of it on the fly
and a lot of it by being, like,
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"Oh, I should have done that already."
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Aimée: What is the role
of clear communication
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and setting expectations with your team?
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Erin: There's a couple of things here.
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When I went to university
for my Bachelors [sic] of Nursing,
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the entire first year of school
was communication,
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and I was less than impressed.
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I was confused. I signed up for nursing.
Like, what is this?
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But it wasn't long after I started nursing
that I actually realized
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that it might be the most important piece.
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Being able to clearly communicate
among your team is so important.
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Being able to communicate expectations
and your clear roles during the day,
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it helps everyone feel sure of themselves,
confident in their role,
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and it helps everyone understand
why their role is important
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and why they have to do that job that way,
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because everyone else's job
is working in unison.
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It's not always about
time and efficiency.
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Safety is the major consideration.
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We kind of forget about it
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because if everyone's safe,
we're not thinking about it.
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But there's just so many spots
that it could go wrong.
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I read this somewhere once, that,
"Unspoken expectations
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-are premeditated resentments."
-[Laughter]
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Aimée: That's a very good quote.
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Erin: And I loved it because, you know...
Aimée: Yes.
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Erin: It is, because if you're not
telling somebody, you know,
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"This is the job I want you to do
to this extent,"
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if you're telling them part of the job
or part of the piece
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and they don't do it properly,
you're going to be upset
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because it didn't go
as you expected it to.
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But really, it's up to you as the employer
to give them the full expectation.
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Aimée: So, do you think that
these expectations that you're setting
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and this communication that you're
establishing with your employee
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is helping them see their role
as more of a career than a job?
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Erin: I think so.
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If you excel in your job
on a farmer ranch,
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there are ways to move up.
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And getting the job done is one thing,
but understanding it
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and being able to communicate properly
is probably one of the best ways
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to be able to move up in any job.
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Aimée: You can apply that to,
yes, any job. Like you said, right.
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Erin: If you can do the job, that's good.
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But if you can communicate about
what's happening and why,
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you're going to go somewhere.
But if you're just nose to the grind,
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doing your job and not talking to anyone,
you're...
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Aimée: You could stay stagnant.
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Erin: Yes, exactly.
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Aimée: So, you've taken these learnings
and your videos and the resources
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and the tools, and other businesses
and employees in ranching
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can take advantage of what you've done?
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Erin: I didn't develop an app myself.
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I developed the videos
and all of the content
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and I put it on a platform
for others to be able to access.
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It's very exciting for me in terms
of employees and future employees
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and people who don't have a farming,
or ranching background
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but are very curious and want to do
a stint on a farmer ranch.
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Often if you don't have experience,
you're turned away.
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But at least this way maybe somebody
will take a chance on you or something
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because you've had some exposure.
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Maybe you're mechanically inclined.
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00:16:56,520 --> 00:17:01,013
But again, no farm or ranch experience
as farm and ranch kids are getting to be
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00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:02,373
few and far.
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It's not like we all have that grandparent
connection to a farmer ranch anymore.
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My hope is that anybody
can access this app
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and feel a little more connected and they
could jump in and get their hands dirty,
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whether that's volunteering
or getting a job.
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Or maybe you're
new to the farm or ranch.
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Maybe you just moved on
to one with a partner,
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but you're a little shy
and not too sure how to get involved.
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Might just be that
little bit of confidence
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that you need to get in there.
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Aimée: Have you hired people
with no ranching experience before?
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00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:35,773
Erin: Yes, I've hired people
with no ranching experience.
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When I hire anybody,
we always just take into account,
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00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:41,813
like,
what is their skill set and utilize that,
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give them the jobs that they're good at,
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and then they slowly
get a taste for all the rest
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and they get better
at things as they grow.
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I'm not going to hire somebody
who has no ranching experience
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and put them on a horse and say,
"Go check the cows."
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00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:56,333
In this case, like, we hired somebody
who has very little ranching experience.
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Well, he's been a welder before.
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00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:00,773
Okay, so I'm going to use
your welding experience
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and your mechanically-inclined brain.
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And then we're going to go together
and learn about the cattle side of things.
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Aimée: You're totally right.
Labour is such an issue in agriculture.
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00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:12,493
And there are people that are interested,
and it's just, where to start?
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And how do you build that confidence
as an employer too,
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that you're going to be finding someone
that can
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integrate themselves into your business,
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can learn the things that they need
to learn and be an asset to your business?
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00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:25,573
Because if it's taking you longer,
or if you have to do the work yourself,
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or it's taking you the time
to invest in them
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or to show them how to do things,
or just to assume, like you said,
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it's probably not worth
the investment of time.
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00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:37,773
Erin: Absolutely. Managing people
and tasks is a huge job in itself
378
00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:40,773
and a common mindset
in our industry is probably,
379
00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:43,293
"If I have to babysit them
I might as well do it myself."
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00:18:43,360 --> 00:18:47,053
And I strongly believe
that it doesn't have to be that way.
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00:18:47,120 --> 00:18:52,573
Aimée: This app, have you had people
starting to use it outside of your firm?
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00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:58,293
Erin: Mostly at this time, I've had people
within our organization and some, like,
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00:18:58,360 --> 00:19:00,653
family and close friends
that I've had go through it
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00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:02,773
just to give me some feedback
385
00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:05,173
before I really throw it out there
into the world.
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00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:08,373
Aimée: What was the feedback
been like so far with your testers?
387
00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:09,653
Erin: It's been really good.
388
00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:12,533
Some of the stuff in there is things
you wouldn't think about it
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00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:14,293
until you were face to face with it.
390
00:19:14,360 --> 00:19:18,733
There's a bunch of, like, flow charts
within it that if this happens, look here.
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00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:20,053
If that happens, look there.
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00:19:20,120 --> 00:19:22,933
And, like, there's homework
with every section as well.
393
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:26,533
It's, like,
find out who your power company
394
00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:28,573
is and the phone number
that you would call if the power is out.
395
00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:30,493
Put that in your phone, right?
396
00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:33,733
It's not big homework,
but it's just finding those pieces
397
00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:37,093
that only apply to you and saving them
in your information.
398
00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:41,093
Aimée: What excites you
the most about the future of agriculture?
399
00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:42,893
Erin: It's just so exciting.
400
00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:45,973
It is the place to be, I think.
We are all here to stay.
401
00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:50,973
There's no other industry
that I feel is as sure as agriculture.
402
00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:54,213
Everybody needs to eat
and everybody always will.
403
00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:57,093
We were all told as kids,
or at least my generation was,
404
00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:00,773
to go and get a degree and that
agriculture was maybe not a good life.
405
00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:04,213
Urbanization was being pushed,
and I'm so excited to see people
406
00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:07,093
get more curious and involved
with where their food comes from
407
00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:10,253
and just come back to agriculture.
408
00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:14,373
There is, like, so much technology
and there's cool research happening.
409
00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:16,653
I'm excited to see
kids graduate from high school
410
00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:18,733
and want to go either back to the farm
411
00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:21,013
or explore how their interests
and their skills
412
00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:22,733
can complement the ag industry.
413
00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:25,293
Aimée: Yes, because we need
so many different skill sets
414
00:20:25,360 --> 00:20:26,773
-to grow this industry.
-Erin: So many.
415
00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:28,813
Aimée: It's very apparent
that you've taken a lot of the skills
416
00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:31,573
that you've learned
in your nursing career and education
417
00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:33,493
and applied them
back to your own business,
418
00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:35,413
which is amazing to see.
419
00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:37,333
Erin: You could take
anything in university
420
00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:39,613
and end up anywhere
further down the road.
421
00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:42,613
Aimée: What do those of us
in agriculture need to keep in mind
422
00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:44,847
as we work with others in the industry?
423
00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:48,533
Erin: I encourage everyone
just to build a strong team,
424
00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:53,573
not just within your operation,
but also with your industry partners.
425
00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:55,533
You know, you train your employees well,
426
00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:59,413
but you have to extend that same level
of clarity and guidance to your partners,
427
00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:01,733
clearly communicating about what you need,
428
00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:05,333
whether that's telling your parts guys
that you want the most affordable option
429
00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:07,733
or explaining that you need
the highest quality
430
00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:09,373
because you can't afford a return trip.
431
00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:12,573
You're constantly just showing
people how to work with you,
432
00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:15,213
taking time to talk with them,
build relationships.
433
00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:18,253
You're constantly training
and communicating
434
00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:20,133
throughout your whole life.
435
00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:24,533
The other side, when it comes
to what do we need to keep in mind
436
00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:27,493
as we work with others in agriculture,
is transparency.
437
00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:31,013
-I will die on the hill of transparency.
-[Laughter]
438
00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:35,493
I cannot emphasize enough how important
it is for us all to tell the truth.
439
00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:39,413
As a nurse, if I reported my patients'
vital signs or output incorrectly,
440
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:41,773
the physician's going
to prescribe something wrong,
441
00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:43,493
medication or treatment wise.
442
00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:45,413
And the same goes
for farming and ranching.
443
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:49,213
If we inflate the truth to, like,
protect our egos per se, you know,
444
00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:53,533
telling our neighbors how amazing our crop
was or claiming we had a perfect breed up,
445
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:55,253
we're never going to learn
from each other
446
00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:59,053
and in fact we'll probably end up
skewing the entire industry.
447
00:21:59,120 --> 00:22:04,013
Transparency is, like, to me the backbone
of progress and without honesty,
448
00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:07,093
we risk making so many flawed decisions.
449
00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:10,333
Transparency is, like,
the only way we can grow and improve
450
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:13,533
and support each other,
even if it's uncomfortable at times.
451
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:16,733
Aimée: This was a great discussion with
Erin about her approach to hands-on
452
00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:18,333
ranch employee training.
453
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:21,053
While at first glance it might appear
like an out-of-the-box approach,
454
00:22:21,120 --> 00:22:24,813
Erin was simply borrowing ideas from her
previous experiences and field of work
455
00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:28,533
to solve very real issues in agriculture,
human resource management.
456
00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:31,773
We've said it before on this podcast
that no education is wasted,
457
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:34,813
and Erin sure proved that point
by leveraging her nursing background
458
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:36,453
to foster clear communications,
459
00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:38,653
create an environment
where safety is a priority,
460
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:43,293
and turn the ranch employee role into
a career choice rather than just a job.
461
00:22:43,360 --> 00:22:45,853
With labour being a consistent
challenge in the ag industry,
462
00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:48,053
an investment
in her human resource strategy
463
00:22:48,120 --> 00:22:50,800
is an investment
in the efficiency of her business.
464
00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:57,213
Check the show notes for further reading
and resources related to this episode.
465
00:22:57,280 --> 00:22:58,493
Did you enjoy this episode?
466
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:00,493
Be sure to share it
with your family and friends.
467
00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:04,213
Please do subscribe so you can be the
first to know when we drop new episodes.
468
00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:07,013
And if you have feedback
or topic ideas you'd like to share,
469
00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:08,453
go ahead and leave us a review.
470
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:12,640
Your feedback will help us make decisions
on what's valuable to you as a listener.
471
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:28,133
The FCC Knowledge Podcast
is a Farm Credit Canada production
472
00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:30,533
in collaboration
with Roman Empire Studios.
