1
00:00:01,962 --> 00:00:05,386
AS: From AgExpert,
it's the FCC Knowledge Podcast,
2
00:00:05,453 --> 00:00:08,640
a show that features real Canadians
in agriculture, real stories,
3
00:00:08,707 --> 00:00:11,508
and real good conversations
about the business of farming.
4
00:00:11,575 --> 00:00:13,191
I'm your host, Aimée Stang.
5
00:00:16,257 --> 00:00:20,722
AT: Whatever is being presented to us
as the issue or being presented to us
6
00:00:20,789 --> 00:00:26,871
as the thing that has to change
has to come with a defendable reason.
7
00:00:29,847 --> 00:00:32,449
AS: In this episode,
we're talking with Amy Tolhurst
8
00:00:32,516 --> 00:00:34,790
about her family dairy farm
in Howick, Quebec,
9
00:00:34,857 --> 00:00:38,153
and her participation
in the Living Lab Carbon-Neutral Milk,
10
00:00:38,220 --> 00:00:41,912
an ongoing collaborative research project
on Quebec dairy farms.
11
00:00:41,979 --> 00:00:44,994
The project is focused on testing
and developing best practices
12
00:00:45,061 --> 00:00:48,842
in dairy production to reduce
the environmental footprint of the sector.
13
00:00:48,909 --> 00:00:51,447
This Living Lab is focused
on working with producers
14
00:00:51,514 --> 00:00:55,554
to develop and test beneficial
management practices, BMPs,
15
00:00:55,621 --> 00:00:59,026
on the farm to help reach net zero
greenhouse gas emissions
16
00:00:59,093 --> 00:01:00,559
in the dairy industry.
17
00:01:01,272 --> 00:01:03,455
This research project
is managed by Novalait,
18
00:01:03,522 --> 00:01:07,123
a research organization created by
Quebec dairy farmers and processors.
19
00:01:07,942 --> 00:01:11,751
Twenty farms, including Tolhurst Farms,
in four regions of the province
20
00:01:11,818 --> 00:01:15,596
are involved in projects specific to
their operations and priorities.
21
00:01:21,888 --> 00:01:24,701
Here's Amy to give us a little history
of Tolhurst Farms.
22
00:01:25,676 --> 00:01:29,159
AT: My father-in-law was brought up
on a farm in Cartierville,
23
00:01:29,226 --> 00:01:32,985
which is north of Montreal,
on the bank of the Rivière-des-Prairies.
24
00:01:33,052 --> 00:01:37,585
Their farm experienced
the end of a land agreement
25
00:01:37,652 --> 00:01:41,706
with the City of Montreal
and they had to leave
26
00:01:41,773 --> 00:01:44,176
because the city was expanding.
27
00:01:44,243 --> 00:01:46,257
So he was at Macdonald College
at the time
28
00:01:46,324 --> 00:01:49,110
and met some people from this area,
and found out about this farm
29
00:01:49,177 --> 00:01:50,174
that was for sale.
30
00:01:50,241 --> 00:01:54,151
As they finished up
with their installation in Montreal,
31
00:01:54,218 --> 00:01:58,549
his father bought a farm
directly in line with this one,
32
00:01:58,616 --> 00:02:00,558
but on the other side of the village,
33
00:02:00,625 --> 00:02:05,199
and his uncle and his aunt also bought
a farm right next to the farm
34
00:02:05,266 --> 00:02:07,715
that the original Mr. Tolhurst
had purchased.
35
00:02:08,387 --> 00:02:11,933
They started with a pretty good land base
to get things going.
36
00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:13,255
He built a milkhouse.
37
00:02:13,322 --> 00:02:16,636
To start off with, they were
milking cows in a tie stall barn.
38
00:02:16,703 --> 00:02:20,029
They built a home
for an employee on the farm,
39
00:02:20,096 --> 00:02:25,634
to set them up as they were accustomed
to working in their other location.
40
00:02:27,218 --> 00:02:32,565
So today, we have a milking herd
of around 120 cows.
41
00:02:32,932 --> 00:02:36,966
On the farm,
we have about 220 animals in total.
42
00:02:37,033 --> 00:02:39,332
We have 154 kilos of quota.
43
00:02:39,399 --> 00:02:44,195
We milk in a herringbone
Level 7 milking parlour.
44
00:02:44,752 --> 00:02:47,439
We have three Guatemalan employees.
45
00:02:48,182 --> 00:02:50,702
During the wintertime,
we have two that are here,
46
00:02:50,769 --> 00:02:52,831
and then in the summertime
we have three that are here.
47
00:02:52,898 --> 00:02:57,231
My son, my husband, myself,
and our three daughters;
48
00:02:57,298 --> 00:03:00,030
Christine is actually
an employee on the farm.
49
00:03:00,097 --> 00:03:03,398
After Ken's dad passed away in 1994,
50
00:03:03,465 --> 00:03:08,947
Ken continued to work with his brothers
on the farm and an employee.
51
00:03:09,620 --> 00:03:14,671
It started getting harder to find
dependable employees to work on farms.
52
00:03:14,738 --> 00:03:16,923
We had to go to foreign workers,
53
00:03:16,990 --> 00:03:20,105
and Ken's brothers moved on
to do other things
54
00:03:20,172 --> 00:03:25,075
as they were heading towards retirement,
so that's how we came to be on the farm.
55
00:03:26,075 --> 00:03:30,324
We have about 350 to 375 acres.
56
00:03:30,391 --> 00:03:33,830
The main goal of all the crops
that we grow here on the farm
57
00:03:33,897 --> 00:03:36,251
is to be able to feed the cows.
58
00:03:36,318 --> 00:03:40,790
We have a small amount of soybeans
and wheat that we sell,
59
00:03:40,857 --> 00:03:43,767
but we grow the wheat
mostly to have the straw.
60
00:03:43,834 --> 00:03:45,938
Very little grain corn leftover,
61
00:03:46,005 --> 00:03:48,105
but if we do have some leftover
we sell it,
62
00:03:48,172 --> 00:03:49,339
but that's not the ultimate goal.
63
00:03:49,406 --> 00:03:53,098
We try and have everything balanced out
so that it keeps the cows fed.
64
00:03:54,325 --> 00:03:58,660
AS: So, can you tell me a little bit about
what the Living Labs program
65
00:03:58,727 --> 00:04:00,505
is and how did you get involved?
66
00:04:02,185 --> 00:04:05,114
AT: The Living Labs,
or in our province
67
00:04:05,181 --> 00:04:09,629
we call it the Laboratoire vivant,
is a research project.
68
00:04:09,696 --> 00:04:11,948
It's a government-grounded project
69
00:04:12,015 --> 00:04:14,467
and they appointed Novalait
in our province
70
00:04:14,534 --> 00:04:17,425
to be the administrator
or the facilitator.
71
00:04:17,492 --> 00:04:21,140
So they identified the regions
of Quebec and, you know,
72
00:04:21,207 --> 00:04:24,646
based on the number of dairy farms
they determined how many farms
73
00:04:24,713 --> 00:04:27,148
they needed to have from each region.
74
00:04:27,215 --> 00:04:30,168
AS: So as the official body
representing all of Quebec farm
75
00:04:30,235 --> 00:04:32,727
and forestry producers, the UPA,
76
00:04:32,794 --> 00:04:37,053
or l'Union des producteurs agricoles,
was the one finding these farms, correct?
77
00:04:37,582 --> 00:04:41,907
AT: Locally, our UPA was the delegate
that they work with,
78
00:04:41,974 --> 00:04:45,656
and they asked the UPA to find them
X number of candidates
79
00:04:45,723 --> 00:04:47,042
that fit their criteria.
80
00:04:47,109 --> 00:04:49,697
And there was a lot of
interesting criteria.
81
00:04:49,764 --> 00:04:52,998
We touched on probably 90% of them.
82
00:04:53,065 --> 00:04:55,313
You had to have succession.
83
00:04:55,380 --> 00:04:59,526
It was beneficial
if you were living on a waterway.
84
00:04:59,593 --> 00:05:01,327
You had to have dairy cows.
85
00:05:01,394 --> 00:05:03,562
Based on what the projects are,
86
00:05:03,629 --> 00:05:05,574
they're looking for
all different kinds of things,
87
00:05:05,641 --> 00:05:09,064
like weather patterns and air quality
and methane and manure,
88
00:05:09,131 --> 00:05:14,540
and we have a good installation
that can help them gather data
89
00:05:14,607 --> 00:05:16,212
on a lot of those things.
90
00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:17,962
They've been really easy to work with.
91
00:05:18,029 --> 00:05:19,476
We've attended some meetings.
92
00:05:19,543 --> 00:05:21,430
A lot of them were done by Zoom.
93
00:05:21,497 --> 00:05:23,638
We've gotten together
with the other farmers
94
00:05:23,705 --> 00:05:25,850
across the whole province, twice now.
95
00:05:25,917 --> 00:05:29,783
The first time was to meet
with the researchers based on
96
00:05:29,850 --> 00:05:31,400
the priorities of our farm,
97
00:05:31,467 --> 00:05:36,023
what we would be looking to improve
or looking to make changes on.
98
00:05:36,090 --> 00:05:39,180
And then this year,
in January when we went,
99
00:05:39,247 --> 00:05:42,146
the researchers presented their projects,
what they were proposing,
100
00:05:42,213 --> 00:05:44,227
what would be required of us,
101
00:05:44,294 --> 00:05:47,640
and they asked us to sign up
for the ones that would interest us.
102
00:05:47,707 --> 00:05:50,824
We have two projects
that are ongoing here on this farm.
103
00:05:50,891 --> 00:05:55,245
They are more to do with soil levels
of nitrogen and phosphorus
104
00:05:55,312 --> 00:05:56,388
and things like that.
105
00:05:56,455 --> 00:05:58,517
Those are very interesting topics,
106
00:05:58,584 --> 00:06:02,506
but it's not the meat of what I was
motivated to find out.
107
00:06:02,573 --> 00:06:07,412
Like, manure management is a big file
that I manage here at this farm.
108
00:06:07,479 --> 00:06:12,009
We don't have enough land to spread
our manure on, so we export manure.
109
00:06:12,076 --> 00:06:15,819
I'd really like to get more benefits
from our manure,
110
00:06:15,886 --> 00:06:17,668
put more value on our manure,
111
00:06:17,735 --> 00:06:22,319
because we can see
the benefits on our own farm
112
00:06:22,386 --> 00:06:25,057
and there's many people
that have given up dairying
113
00:06:25,124 --> 00:06:29,397
or given up having animals
that are not seeing those benefits.
114
00:06:29,464 --> 00:06:31,592
The people that we export to
115
00:06:31,659 --> 00:06:36,548
aren't necessarily willing to pay
for manure, and why would they?
116
00:06:36,615 --> 00:06:39,013
But they do have to pay,
for their own spreading;
117
00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:42,933
we can transport it to their farm
but that's where our obligation stops.
118
00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:46,413
But I just feel like
that there's so much more
119
00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:48,213
that we could be doing with this.
120
00:06:48,280 --> 00:06:51,493
And I have met the researcher
and I liked what he had to say,
121
00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:54,453
and I really just can't wait
to get him here on the farm
122
00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:57,453
and to give me some good ideas,
some creative ideas.
123
00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:00,773
AS: So the Laboratoire vivant,
the Living Lab program,
124
00:07:00,840 --> 00:07:05,933
that is based on a target that
the Dairy Farmers of Canada have set,
125
00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:10,133
I believe, to be carbon-neutral by 2050.
126
00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:14,053
AT: We've signed onto
this research project for five years.
127
00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:20,293
We had to give them all our data for 2022,
our fertilizer purchases,
128
00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:24,453
seed purchases, crop harvests,
the gallons of manure,
129
00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:27,133
number of cows, all of that kind of stuff.
130
00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:30,453
And they're supposed to be
making up our first assessment,
131
00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:33,733
and then as we progress
through the project
132
00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:36,693
I believe we need to do
two other data collections,
133
00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:39,213
or bilans they call them, so we'll see
134
00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:42,173
how we're improving
or if things are changing.
135
00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:46,213
AS: It sounds like there was
quite a bit of work, pre-work,
136
00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:49,947
required or data collection required
at the beginning to get going.
137
00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:53,413
AT: For sure,
but they're very organized.
138
00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:59,733
My mother-in-law had really handed down
to us a method that worked
139
00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:01,333
for keeping things organized.
140
00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:05,093
Not just with the accounting
but all of the farm projects
141
00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:08,613
that they had done over the years,
every letter that they've exchanged
142
00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:11,093
with the Ministry of the Environment
and things like that,
143
00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:16,293
she really set up a good method,
so we just kind of followed her pattern.
144
00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:19,413
When you know where to go
to look for this kind of information,
145
00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:20,933
it's not quite so hard.
146
00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:24,413
We've started converting
everything on the drive.
147
00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:28,333
Like, we keep all our documents
so everybody can have access to them
148
00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:29,773
that's part of the farm.
149
00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:32,053
It was a big job, but it was doable.
150
00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:34,493
AS: And was it a tough sell
to your business partners?
151
00:08:34,560 --> 00:08:38,413
AT: Everybody here on this farm,
including my father-in-law
152
00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:43,333
when he was here working with us,
they very much have a sight to the future.
153
00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:45,493
They look to what's down the road.
154
00:08:45,560 --> 00:08:48,773
They don't just live for today
and they don't live in the past.
155
00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:51,933
At a certain point,
nobody wants to take on more work,
156
00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:54,173
and nobody had any objection to it at all,
157
00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:56,293
but they weren't going to
have to work harder.
158
00:08:56,360 --> 00:09:00,733
And if I was willing to feed these people
the papers
159
00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:02,293
and the numbers that they needed,
160
00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:04,413
then they were willing
to go along with it.
161
00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:07,013
And they felt that, you know,
not only ourselves
162
00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:10,333
if there was something to take away
from it, but if, down the road,
163
00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:13,013
other farmers have examples
that they can follow
164
00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:17,013
to help them make better decisions,
then how can you be against that?
165
00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:19,973
AS: Can you talk a little bit about
the manure management project?
166
00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:23,240
Who knew that value-adding manure,
that would be a thing, right?
167
00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:27,413
AT: Maybe I'm raising too high
of an expectation for this research,
168
00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:30,733
or I hope not; I don't want him
to feel like he's under any pressure,
169
00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:34,840
but I just feel that we can do
better in that department.
170
00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:38,693
AS: Every farm is always striving
to do better with their output
171
00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:42,413
and the ways that they're trying to
achieve their outputs, I guess.
172
00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:44,813
So you had mentioned
that there was some objectives
173
00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:47,653
that you had identified for your farm
that would be in line with this research.
174
00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:49,493
Clearly, manure management
was one of them.
175
00:09:49,560 --> 00:09:51,520
Were there other things that stood out?
176
00:09:52,680 --> 00:09:56,493
AT: There's a couple of fellows
that are doing air quality in the barn.
177
00:09:56,560 --> 00:09:59,693
They were looking for barns
that were naturally ventilated.
178
00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:03,213
They were looking for barns that
were traditionally, with exhaust fans
179
00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:04,613
and things like that.
180
00:10:04,680 --> 00:10:08,773
Here, we have it all:
we have an old tie stall barn,
181
00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:12,853
we have a freestyle barn
with tunnel ventilation,
182
00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:16,173
and we have a naturally ventilated barn.
183
00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:19,973
Our milking groups
are all housed in those areas.
184
00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:22,853
This one carries a pretty big
significance for me.
185
00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:24,733
-I'm also a nurse.
-AS: Right.
186
00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:27,213
AT: And my father-in-law
had farmer's lung.
187
00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:29,893
It was debilitating for him.
188
00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:33,013
It made him absolutely sick
to go into the barn.
189
00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:34,453
He tried everything.
190
00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:36,293
He tried all different kinds of masks.
191
00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:39,653
It was really difficult for him,
and we all tried to help him
192
00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:43,933
the best that we could to find solutions,
but it wasn't possible.
193
00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:47,733
I do not want to have
a recurrence of that.
194
00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:50,973
Like, I want everybody
to stay as healthy as possible.
195
00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:54,213
So, I'm very interested to see
what the data might show
196
00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:56,413
for our air quality.
197
00:10:56,480 --> 00:11:00,733
I grew up on the same river,
just a little bit down the road from here.
198
00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:02,973
I care a lot about the river.
199
00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:07,813
It's gone from being very polluted
to improving significantly,
200
00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:10,613
probably in the last 30 to 35 years.
201
00:11:10,680 --> 00:11:13,653
They're talking about riparian strips
and they're talking about
202
00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:17,373
many different things
to solidify the river bank,
203
00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:19,333
and I'm very interested in that.
204
00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:23,253
And my son-in-law is also
very keen on things like that,
205
00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:27,133
and that's where— we consider
our whole family to be part of this farm,
206
00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:28,813
but they're not all employees.
207
00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:32,093
They all have another life somewhere,
too, but they're here a lot
208
00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:33,333
and they help us a lot.
209
00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:38,053
And it's fun to be able to pull the
extended family into projects like this
210
00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:41,253
based on things
that are very interesting to them, too.
211
00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:45,573
So I'm afraid I'm not a field person
or a crop person.
212
00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:49,080
My son manages all of that work for us.
213
00:11:49,680 --> 00:11:54,613
Whatever things can improve
in the fields would be great.
214
00:11:54,680 --> 00:11:58,173
He's done some things
with the two researchers that were here.
215
00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:00,613
AS: Well, and it sounds like you all bring
your own strengths and interests
216
00:12:00,680 --> 00:12:02,493
to the table,
including the extended family,
217
00:12:02,560 --> 00:12:05,813
so that really gives a whole
holistic view to the operation
218
00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:07,773
and to this project
that you're involved in.
219
00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:09,853
There's clearly a link
to progressive change.
220
00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:12,213
Obviously, you're talking about,
too, the river
221
00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:15,373
and how it's continually improved
over the last 35 years.
222
00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:18,413
Can you tell me about
how your farm's view,
223
00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:22,040
your business values
align with that perspective?
224
00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:26,933
AT: One of the values that
we have here is guardianship
225
00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:31,533
or stewardship of the land.
Everybody farms for a different reason.
226
00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:33,973
You know,
everybody's motivation is different.
227
00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:37,973
The men that I've known, and the girls,
228
00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:42,173
really have a passion for the farm,
the land, the animals.
229
00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:44,853
They're natural dairymen.
230
00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:47,733
My father-in-law was that way as well.
231
00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:50,413
It's a common trait
that we see in them all.
232
00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:53,333
They take that responsibility
quite seriously
233
00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:57,773
and they take the use of best practices
very seriously.
234
00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:02,653
That example was started with Ken's dad
and the progressive moves that he made,
235
00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:06,493
not just so that the cows would be
more comfortable or better cared for,
236
00:13:06,560 --> 00:13:09,253
but also the people
that were doing the work, too.
237
00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:11,893
He was very conscious,
taking care of his body
238
00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:14,773
and making things not as hard
as they needed to be.
239
00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:16,773
That's the philosophy that we work with.
240
00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:19,133
It's hard to make change.
241
00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:22,973
Everybody gets very comfortable
in the things that they do,
242
00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:27,413
but progressive change
or change in degrees
243
00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:30,493
often sticks better than massive change.
244
00:13:30,560 --> 00:13:34,533
It's very hard to cope
with massive change, good or bad.
245
00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:38,613
That's the slow and steady nature
of the family here.
246
00:13:38,680 --> 00:13:40,653
They're the tortoise, not the hare.
247
00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:43,653
It's very much reflective
of our region, I would say.
248
00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:50,493
This is a very mixed Francophone,
Scottish, Irish region.
249
00:13:50,560 --> 00:13:54,653
That seems to be the nature
of the people around here.
250
00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:58,173
It's easy to do when you have a lot of
like-minded people around you.
251
00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:02,533
AS: So thoughtful, incremental change
is really what your approach
252
00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:04,653
is for any type of innovation?
253
00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:07,733
AT: Whatever is being
presented to us as the issue
254
00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:11,413
or being presented to us
as the thing that has to change
255
00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:16,293
has to come
with a defendable reason as well.
256
00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:19,733
You know, they're not people
to jump on the bandwagon and say,
257
00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:22,078
“Okay, let's do this and do it tomorrow.”
258
00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:27,413
AS: This podcast has been
brought to you by AgExpert,
259
00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,453
farm management software
designed for Canadian agriculture.
260
00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:32,840
Learn more at AgExpert.ca.
261
00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:37,013
AS: So it's a multiple year project,
you were saying, right?
262
00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:38,853
AT: Yeah.
AS: And so, when you first met
263
00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:42,733
with the UPA and then Novalait,
who's managing this Living Labs program,
264
00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:45,293
and you said that the researchers
presented their projects,
265
00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:49,260
you met in person with the researchers.
What was that like?
266
00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:51,813
AT: [laughs]
267
00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:54,040
It was like speed dating!
268
00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:59,453
Based on what your priorities were,
you were assigned as a group.
269
00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:02,653
Everybody was given a number and that
was the group that you stayed with.
270
00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:06,813
You rotated around or,
in some cases, you stayed where you were
271
00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:09,613
and the researchers came to you,
and they had so many minutes
272
00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:11,813
to make their presentation.
273
00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:15,853
Or vice versa, like when we were
telling them what our needs were,
274
00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:19,093
you have a certain allotted time
to ask your questions,
275
00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:22,333
and after that they either
took the data and said,
276
00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:26,133
“Okay, we'll come up with a project,”
or, on the second time around,
277
00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:29,533
we signed up if the project
was interesting for us.
278
00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:33,093
It was interesting because by staying
with the same group all the time,
279
00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:36,613
you got to know different people
and different regions.
280
00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:40,573
My understanding was that one of
the reasons that the Province of Quebec
281
00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:45,133
was chosen is because we have
such a varied land base
282
00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:49,613
within our territories
that it was pretty representative
283
00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:55,293
of the whole of Canada in terms of
types of soil or weather patterns
284
00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:56,733
and things like that.
285
00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:01,293
That's something I'm very proud of
because I didn't even realize that myself,
286
00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:04,453
and that we can represent
the whole of Canada
287
00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:06,613
I found to be very significant.
288
00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:08,613
AS: It's such a cool project,
289
00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:11,093
and the things that you're
going to be learning on your farm,
290
00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:14,693
in terms of better practices
or best practices,
291
00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:17,493
dairy farms across Canada
are going to benefit from this
292
00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:21,693
and be able to take what you're
learning and consider applying it
293
00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:24,653
to their own operations,
and in the end be better.
294
00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:26,853
That's the theory;
that's the plan, right?
295
00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:28,133
I think it's super cool
296
00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:31,173
and I think it's right for you
to be super proud of that.
297
00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:35,973
AT: And if you're making such
a significant investment in some cases,
298
00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:38,373
like financial investment,
299
00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:42,173
you have to have something
to base it on
300
00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:44,213
and it can't just be data.
301
00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:47,333
Like, you have to have
people's personal experiences
302
00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:50,333
in terms of what the challenges were.
303
00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:52,893
How feasible is it
or how complicated is it?
304
00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:56,720
And that's where I see
the benefit is on both sides.
305
00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:00,813
AS: If there was another farmer
that was considering participating
306
00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:03,693
in a program like this, either in
the dairy sector or another sector,
307
00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:08,733
because there's Living Lab projects
in different ag sectors across Canada,
308
00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:11,573
what would you tell them
about this type of research
309
00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:13,573
and why would you encourage them
to participate?
310
00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:17,093
AT: I'd like to encourage people
to participate in everything,
311
00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:23,173
but you cannot be convinced
to be a participant.
312
00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:27,093
I really feel that it has to come
from the person
313
00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:29,813
or the team themselves to say,
314
00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:31,573
“This is a really great idea
315
00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:34,973
and we really think
that this is something very positive,
316
00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:37,453
and let's try and move it forward.”
317
00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:40,853
But you also have to recognize
the commitment to that
318
00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:44,173
and you have to recognize
the willingness to go along
319
00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:45,693
with whatever you might be asked.
320
00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:48,093
We only had two researchers this year,
321
00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:52,093
and the only requirement
that we were asked to do was to
322
00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:55,693
seed a portion of our field
on a diagonal direction
323
00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:58,173
instead of vertical/horizontal directions
324
00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:02,293
so that he would be able to recognize
where his plot was
325
00:18:02,360 --> 00:18:04,360
and take his data accordingly.
326
00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:08,653
We have a manageable
number of acres: that's not too hard.
327
00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:10,333
But for somebody, it is.
328
00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:14,373
You really can't take on a project
like this if you're already overwhelmed
329
00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:17,813
because it's not going to be
functional for you.
330
00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:22,813
You have to be able to say to yourself,
“Okay, like, I can commit to this
331
00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:26,400
and I'll do my best,”
and feel good about doing your best.
332
00:18:27,360 --> 00:18:30,453
If that's everybody's case,
well, then there's no problem,
333
00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:32,493
but people should not be guilted
334
00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:34,773
just because we're talking
about the environment
335
00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:37,453
and we're talking about achieving goals
336
00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:41,720
and we're talking about
a significant worldwide situation.
337
00:18:42,360 --> 00:18:46,613
I would hope that nobody would feel
badly for not participating
338
00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:48,569
if they felt they really couldn't.
339
00:18:49,120 --> 00:18:50,613
AS: That's such a great perspective.
340
00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:54,053
You only have a certain amount of time
and resources and energy.
341
00:18:54,120 --> 00:18:56,293
It doesn't mean
that the project's not important,
342
00:18:56,360 --> 00:19:00,053
but the people that do have that ability
and the resources to do it,
343
00:19:00,120 --> 00:19:01,693
then they can step up.
344
00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:03,893
And sometimes that might not be
at that point in time,
345
00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:05,013
but it might be later.
346
00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:08,613
Like, the whole concept of guilt
is a big one.
347
00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:12,613
AT: I don't think I've ever met anybody
in the farming world
348
00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:15,573
that does not want to do their best.
349
00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:20,453
If somebody is struggling or having
difficulty getting their work done,
350
00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:22,533
it's not because
they're not really trying,
351
00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:28,853
because farmers prioritize
this type of life, this type of work.
352
00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:32,613
I think it's a similar thing
where you might say,
353
00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:37,253
“Okay, yeah, I think it's important
and we'll listen to you,
354
00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:39,653
but we can't do more
than what we're doing right now.”
355
00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:43,613
If there was ever any message
that I would like to pass on
356
00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:47,533
to any kind of policymakers
or decision-makers,
357
00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:51,893
and even just the general public,
like, we can't work harder than we are.
358
00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:56,213
We're trying to find ways
to manage the tasks that we have,
359
00:19:56,280 --> 00:20:00,373
but we can only manage
based on our revenue
360
00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:04,400
and everybody is struggling with that,
especially right now.
361
00:20:05,360 --> 00:20:08,373
So, it takes a little bit
of a tolerance level
362
00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:12,333
from all areas
to help things move forward.
363
00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:16,013
AS: Yeah.
Regardless if it's time or finances,
364
00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:18,853
you have to have those
resources available to you
365
00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:22,693
to implement these changes
and to do more or to change your approach.
366
00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:25,693
Why do you feel
it's important for agriculture,
367
00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:29,693
specifically dairy,
to work towards reducing carbon emissions?
368
00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:33,733
Like, you talked about this is
a worldwide situation, obviously.
369
00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:37,173
Why do you think that
these objectives have been set
370
00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:40,120
and it's important
to support these objectives?
371
00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:44,160
AT: Well, I don't think it's any secret
372
00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:48,133
that animals are big producers
of methane gas,
373
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:54,373
and that seems to be what the
priority challenge in terms of managing
374
00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:58,973
our global climate situation right now is.
375
00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:02,973
This group of people that I work with here
are natural dairymen.
376
00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:08,040
This is where their passion lies,
and none of us want that to change.
377
00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:11,973
And in order to do that,
then we have to be smart
378
00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:14,693
and we have to figure out solutions
379
00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:18,000
to be able to continue
doing the work that we love.
380
00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:22,453
And the consumers,
or the general population,
381
00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:26,493
are also trying to find some solutions
that work for them
382
00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:31,933
because they have their own values
that they base their purchases on,
383
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:33,000
and that's fair.
384
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:36,093
But at the same time,
385
00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:40,853
dairy cows and milk are not going to be
eliminated from the market either,
386
00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:46,320
and we have to come up with the solutions
that we need to make this happen.
387
00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:52,453
We're all in this together
and this universe is going to continue
388
00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:54,533
one way or the other,
389
00:21:54,600 --> 00:22:00,733
but I think it's a general concept
that if you do nothing, nothing happens,
390
00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:04,413
and if nothing happens
then things don't improve.
391
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:05,653
AS: Right.
392
00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:09,933
AT: I think that we have to
look back a little bit
393
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:14,413
to see what challenges
the people before us faced.
394
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:19,293
Perhaps they weren't facing
climate change, but maybe they were.
395
00:22:19,360 --> 00:22:23,373
We're on a big wheel that just
keeps going around and around,
396
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:27,213
but they also had significant problems
and significant issues
397
00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:30,293
that they had to address,
and they did it sensibly
398
00:22:30,360 --> 00:22:32,533
and they did it carefully.
399
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:36,933
And we can chip away at this
400
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:42,613
if we all work at it together,
but I would just like people to recognize
401
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:46,173
that we're all in it together
and that we need to work together.
402
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:50,533
And hopefully, based on the results
of what these researchers find,
403
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:54,773
we're going to make some changes
with the support of, again,
404
00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:59,173
our policymakers and our federations
that govern our industry
405
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:03,053
to see a decline in the trends
that we're currently seeing.
406
00:23:03,120 --> 00:23:06,253
And a big part
of the challenge with that
407
00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:09,653
is communicating the information to people
408
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:14,893
and communicating it in a way that it
makes it doable for them to implement.
409
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:17,853
That's always a challenge,
no matter what,
410
00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:20,573
but the more ambassadors
that we can have
411
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:24,773
to support and encourage people
to jump on board with this,
412
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:27,229
the better it's going to be
in the long run.
413
00:23:28,120 --> 00:23:30,853
AS: Well, yeah, and this is such
a great thing about this program,
414
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:33,493
is that it's farmers
at the ground level, right?
415
00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,453
So, congratulations to your
for participating on this project
416
00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:38,909
and I can't wait to hear
where it takes you.
417
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,973
AS: I did get to talk to Amy again
since recording this interview.
418
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:47,133
Her farm had just received
their bilan, or evaluation,
419
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:48,813
from the Living Lab.
420
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:54,533
The farm summary showed
that they provide milk to 21,472 people,
421
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:59,480
an equivalent of their local community
having 10 glasses of milk per day.
422
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:01,693
In the days that they work so hard,
423
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:04,053
Amy said that this gives
their work meaning,
424
00:24:04,120 --> 00:24:06,733
knowing just how much
they provide for their community,
425
00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:08,933
let alone the Province of Quebec.
426
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:12,373
The Laboratoire vivant
gives them the opportunity to have
427
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:14,493
input from people with different ideas
428
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:17,653
that they can work towards implementing
to improve their score.
429
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:19,813
She'll be using these results
to motivate her team
430
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:23,013
to keep up the good work
and continue to work towards good habits
431
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:25,024
and thoughtful decisions, she said.
432
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:29,453
Change, however,
can sometimes be painful and difficult,
433
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:32,773
and the best practices of an industry
built on stability and routine
434
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:35,062
are often met with resistance, Amy said.
435
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:38,773
AS: To quote Amy,
“We are comfortable with the way we work,
436
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,340
and the result is clearly
not a failing score.
437
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:45,333
Farming and feeding our nation
are the grassroots of our country.
438
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:48,413
Agriculture is the foundation
that stabilizes our economy
439
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:52,591
and reinforces the meaning, purpose,
and value that many are searching for.
440
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,373
I believe with programs
like the Laboratoire vivant,
441
00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:00,613
the results and research reinforces
what we have and builds on this base
442
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:04,253
to help improve the direction
that we need to follow for improvement.
443
00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:06,173
The choice to do this belongs to us.
444
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:09,173
Making thoughtful choices enables
us to be the example for those
445
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:12,280
in our sector
and in other industries.” End quote.
446
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:15,933
Illustrating how the world
will benefit from good choices
447
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:19,293
is the pathway to success,
and Amy is well on her way
448
00:25:19,360 --> 00:25:22,916
to helping influence some
smart business practices going forward.
449
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:29,173
AS: Did you enjoy this episode?
450
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:31,693
Be sure to share it
with your family and friends.
451
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:35,053
Please do subscribe so you can be the
first to know when we drop new episodes.
452
00:25:35,120 --> 00:25:37,853
And if you have feedback
or topic ideas you'd like to share,
453
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:39,493
go ahead and leave us a review.
454
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:43,960
Your feedback will help us make decisions
on what's valuable to you as a listener.
455
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:56,013
The FCC Knowledge Podcast
is a Farm Credit Canada production
456
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:58,413
in collaboration
with Roman Empire Studios.
00:00:01,962 --> 00:00:05,386
AS: From AgExpert,
it's the FCC Knowledge Podcast,
2
00:00:05,453 --> 00:00:08,640
a show that features real Canadians
in agriculture, real stories,
3
00:00:08,707 --> 00:00:11,508
and real good conversations
about the business of farming.
4
00:00:11,575 --> 00:00:13,191
I'm your host, Aimée Stang.
5
00:00:16,257 --> 00:00:20,722
AT: Whatever is being presented to us
as the issue or being presented to us
6
00:00:20,789 --> 00:00:26,871
as the thing that has to change
has to come with a defendable reason.
7
00:00:29,847 --> 00:00:32,449
AS: In this episode,
we're talking with Amy Tolhurst
8
00:00:32,516 --> 00:00:34,790
about her family dairy farm
in Howick, Quebec,
9
00:00:34,857 --> 00:00:38,153
and her participation
in the Living Lab Carbon-Neutral Milk,
10
00:00:38,220 --> 00:00:41,912
an ongoing collaborative research project
on Quebec dairy farms.
11
00:00:41,979 --> 00:00:44,994
The project is focused on testing
and developing best practices
12
00:00:45,061 --> 00:00:48,842
in dairy production to reduce
the environmental footprint of the sector.
13
00:00:48,909 --> 00:00:51,447
This Living Lab is focused
on working with producers
14
00:00:51,514 --> 00:00:55,554
to develop and test beneficial
management practices, BMPs,
15
00:00:55,621 --> 00:00:59,026
on the farm to help reach net zero
greenhouse gas emissions
16
00:00:59,093 --> 00:01:00,559
in the dairy industry.
17
00:01:01,272 --> 00:01:03,455
This research project
is managed by Novalait,
18
00:01:03,522 --> 00:01:07,123
a research organization created by
Quebec dairy farmers and processors.
19
00:01:07,942 --> 00:01:11,751
Twenty farms, including Tolhurst Farms,
in four regions of the province
20
00:01:11,818 --> 00:01:15,596
are involved in projects specific to
their operations and priorities.
21
00:01:21,888 --> 00:01:24,701
Here's Amy to give us a little history
of Tolhurst Farms.
22
00:01:25,676 --> 00:01:29,159
AT: My father-in-law was brought up
on a farm in Cartierville,
23
00:01:29,226 --> 00:01:32,985
which is north of Montreal,
on the bank of the Rivière-des-Prairies.
24
00:01:33,052 --> 00:01:37,585
Their farm experienced
the end of a land agreement
25
00:01:37,652 --> 00:01:41,706
with the City of Montreal
and they had to leave
26
00:01:41,773 --> 00:01:44,176
because the city was expanding.
27
00:01:44,243 --> 00:01:46,257
So he was at Macdonald College
at the time
28
00:01:46,324 --> 00:01:49,110
and met some people from this area,
and found out about this farm
29
00:01:49,177 --> 00:01:50,174
that was for sale.
30
00:01:50,241 --> 00:01:54,151
As they finished up
with their installation in Montreal,
31
00:01:54,218 --> 00:01:58,549
his father bought a farm
directly in line with this one,
32
00:01:58,616 --> 00:02:00,558
but on the other side of the village,
33
00:02:00,625 --> 00:02:05,199
and his uncle and his aunt also bought
a farm right next to the farm
34
00:02:05,266 --> 00:02:07,715
that the original Mr. Tolhurst
had purchased.
35
00:02:08,387 --> 00:02:11,933
They started with a pretty good land base
to get things going.
36
00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:13,255
He built a milkhouse.
37
00:02:13,322 --> 00:02:16,636
To start off with, they were
milking cows in a tie stall barn.
38
00:02:16,703 --> 00:02:20,029
They built a home
for an employee on the farm,
39
00:02:20,096 --> 00:02:25,634
to set them up as they were accustomed
to working in their other location.
40
00:02:27,218 --> 00:02:32,565
So today, we have a milking herd
of around 120 cows.
41
00:02:32,932 --> 00:02:36,966
On the farm,
we have about 220 animals in total.
42
00:02:37,033 --> 00:02:39,332
We have 154 kilos of quota.
43
00:02:39,399 --> 00:02:44,195
We milk in a herringbone
Level 7 milking parlour.
44
00:02:44,752 --> 00:02:47,439
We have three Guatemalan employees.
45
00:02:48,182 --> 00:02:50,702
During the wintertime,
we have two that are here,
46
00:02:50,769 --> 00:02:52,831
and then in the summertime
we have three that are here.
47
00:02:52,898 --> 00:02:57,231
My son, my husband, myself,
and our three daughters;
48
00:02:57,298 --> 00:03:00,030
Christine is actually
an employee on the farm.
49
00:03:00,097 --> 00:03:03,398
After Ken's dad passed away in 1994,
50
00:03:03,465 --> 00:03:08,947
Ken continued to work with his brothers
on the farm and an employee.
51
00:03:09,620 --> 00:03:14,671
It started getting harder to find
dependable employees to work on farms.
52
00:03:14,738 --> 00:03:16,923
We had to go to foreign workers,
53
00:03:16,990 --> 00:03:20,105
and Ken's brothers moved on
to do other things
54
00:03:20,172 --> 00:03:25,075
as they were heading towards retirement,
so that's how we came to be on the farm.
55
00:03:26,075 --> 00:03:30,324
We have about 350 to 375 acres.
56
00:03:30,391 --> 00:03:33,830
The main goal of all the crops
that we grow here on the farm
57
00:03:33,897 --> 00:03:36,251
is to be able to feed the cows.
58
00:03:36,318 --> 00:03:40,790
We have a small amount of soybeans
and wheat that we sell,
59
00:03:40,857 --> 00:03:43,767
but we grow the wheat
mostly to have the straw.
60
00:03:43,834 --> 00:03:45,938
Very little grain corn leftover,
61
00:03:46,005 --> 00:03:48,105
but if we do have some leftover
we sell it,
62
00:03:48,172 --> 00:03:49,339
but that's not the ultimate goal.
63
00:03:49,406 --> 00:03:53,098
We try and have everything balanced out
so that it keeps the cows fed.
64
00:03:54,325 --> 00:03:58,660
AS: So, can you tell me a little bit about
what the Living Labs program
65
00:03:58,727 --> 00:04:00,505
is and how did you get involved?
66
00:04:02,185 --> 00:04:05,114
AT: The Living Labs,
or in our province
67
00:04:05,181 --> 00:04:09,629
we call it the Laboratoire vivant,
is a research project.
68
00:04:09,696 --> 00:04:11,948
It's a government-grounded project
69
00:04:12,015 --> 00:04:14,467
and they appointed Novalait
in our province
70
00:04:14,534 --> 00:04:17,425
to be the administrator
or the facilitator.
71
00:04:17,492 --> 00:04:21,140
So they identified the regions
of Quebec and, you know,
72
00:04:21,207 --> 00:04:24,646
based on the number of dairy farms
they determined how many farms
73
00:04:24,713 --> 00:04:27,148
they needed to have from each region.
74
00:04:27,215 --> 00:04:30,168
AS: So as the official body
representing all of Quebec farm
75
00:04:30,235 --> 00:04:32,727
and forestry producers, the UPA,
76
00:04:32,794 --> 00:04:37,053
or l'Union des producteurs agricoles,
was the one finding these farms, correct?
77
00:04:37,582 --> 00:04:41,907
AT: Locally, our UPA was the delegate
that they work with,
78
00:04:41,974 --> 00:04:45,656
and they asked the UPA to find them
X number of candidates
79
00:04:45,723 --> 00:04:47,042
that fit their criteria.
80
00:04:47,109 --> 00:04:49,697
And there was a lot of
interesting criteria.
81
00:04:49,764 --> 00:04:52,998
We touched on probably 90% of them.
82
00:04:53,065 --> 00:04:55,313
You had to have succession.
83
00:04:55,380 --> 00:04:59,526
It was beneficial
if you were living on a waterway.
84
00:04:59,593 --> 00:05:01,327
You had to have dairy cows.
85
00:05:01,394 --> 00:05:03,562
Based on what the projects are,
86
00:05:03,629 --> 00:05:05,574
they're looking for
all different kinds of things,
87
00:05:05,641 --> 00:05:09,064
like weather patterns and air quality
and methane and manure,
88
00:05:09,131 --> 00:05:14,540
and we have a good installation
that can help them gather data
89
00:05:14,607 --> 00:05:16,212
on a lot of those things.
90
00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:17,962
They've been really easy to work with.
91
00:05:18,029 --> 00:05:19,476
We've attended some meetings.
92
00:05:19,543 --> 00:05:21,430
A lot of them were done by Zoom.
93
00:05:21,497 --> 00:05:23,638
We've gotten together
with the other farmers
94
00:05:23,705 --> 00:05:25,850
across the whole province, twice now.
95
00:05:25,917 --> 00:05:29,783
The first time was to meet
with the researchers based on
96
00:05:29,850 --> 00:05:31,400
the priorities of our farm,
97
00:05:31,467 --> 00:05:36,023
what we would be looking to improve
or looking to make changes on.
98
00:05:36,090 --> 00:05:39,180
And then this year,
in January when we went,
99
00:05:39,247 --> 00:05:42,146
the researchers presented their projects,
what they were proposing,
100
00:05:42,213 --> 00:05:44,227
what would be required of us,
101
00:05:44,294 --> 00:05:47,640
and they asked us to sign up
for the ones that would interest us.
102
00:05:47,707 --> 00:05:50,824
We have two projects
that are ongoing here on this farm.
103
00:05:50,891 --> 00:05:55,245
They are more to do with soil levels
of nitrogen and phosphorus
104
00:05:55,312 --> 00:05:56,388
and things like that.
105
00:05:56,455 --> 00:05:58,517
Those are very interesting topics,
106
00:05:58,584 --> 00:06:02,506
but it's not the meat of what I was
motivated to find out.
107
00:06:02,573 --> 00:06:07,412
Like, manure management is a big file
that I manage here at this farm.
108
00:06:07,479 --> 00:06:12,009
We don't have enough land to spread
our manure on, so we export manure.
109
00:06:12,076 --> 00:06:15,819
I'd really like to get more benefits
from our manure,
110
00:06:15,886 --> 00:06:17,668
put more value on our manure,
111
00:06:17,735 --> 00:06:22,319
because we can see
the benefits on our own farm
112
00:06:22,386 --> 00:06:25,057
and there's many people
that have given up dairying
113
00:06:25,124 --> 00:06:29,397
or given up having animals
that are not seeing those benefits.
114
00:06:29,464 --> 00:06:31,592
The people that we export to
115
00:06:31,659 --> 00:06:36,548
aren't necessarily willing to pay
for manure, and why would they?
116
00:06:36,615 --> 00:06:39,013
But they do have to pay,
for their own spreading;
117
00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:42,933
we can transport it to their farm
but that's where our obligation stops.
118
00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:46,413
But I just feel like
that there's so much more
119
00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:48,213
that we could be doing with this.
120
00:06:48,280 --> 00:06:51,493
And I have met the researcher
and I liked what he had to say,
121
00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:54,453
and I really just can't wait
to get him here on the farm
122
00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:57,453
and to give me some good ideas,
some creative ideas.
123
00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:00,773
AS: So the Laboratoire vivant,
the Living Lab program,
124
00:07:00,840 --> 00:07:05,933
that is based on a target that
the Dairy Farmers of Canada have set,
125
00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:10,133
I believe, to be carbon-neutral by 2050.
126
00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:14,053
AT: We've signed onto
this research project for five years.
127
00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:20,293
We had to give them all our data for 2022,
our fertilizer purchases,
128
00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:24,453
seed purchases, crop harvests,
the gallons of manure,
129
00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:27,133
number of cows, all of that kind of stuff.
130
00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:30,453
And they're supposed to be
making up our first assessment,
131
00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:33,733
and then as we progress
through the project
132
00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:36,693
I believe we need to do
two other data collections,
133
00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:39,213
or bilans they call them, so we'll see
134
00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:42,173
how we're improving
or if things are changing.
135
00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:46,213
AS: It sounds like there was
quite a bit of work, pre-work,
136
00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:49,947
required or data collection required
at the beginning to get going.
137
00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:53,413
AT: For sure,
but they're very organized.
138
00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:59,733
My mother-in-law had really handed down
to us a method that worked
139
00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:01,333
for keeping things organized.
140
00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:05,093
Not just with the accounting
but all of the farm projects
141
00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:08,613
that they had done over the years,
every letter that they've exchanged
142
00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:11,093
with the Ministry of the Environment
and things like that,
143
00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:16,293
she really set up a good method,
so we just kind of followed her pattern.
144
00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:19,413
When you know where to go
to look for this kind of information,
145
00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:20,933
it's not quite so hard.
146
00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:24,413
We've started converting
everything on the drive.
147
00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:28,333
Like, we keep all our documents
so everybody can have access to them
148
00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:29,773
that's part of the farm.
149
00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:32,053
It was a big job, but it was doable.
150
00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:34,493
AS: And was it a tough sell
to your business partners?
151
00:08:34,560 --> 00:08:38,413
AT: Everybody here on this farm,
including my father-in-law
152
00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:43,333
when he was here working with us,
they very much have a sight to the future.
153
00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:45,493
They look to what's down the road.
154
00:08:45,560 --> 00:08:48,773
They don't just live for today
and they don't live in the past.
155
00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:51,933
At a certain point,
nobody wants to take on more work,
156
00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:54,173
and nobody had any objection to it at all,
157
00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:56,293
but they weren't going to
have to work harder.
158
00:08:56,360 --> 00:09:00,733
And if I was willing to feed these people
the papers
159
00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:02,293
and the numbers that they needed,
160
00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:04,413
then they were willing
to go along with it.
161
00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:07,013
And they felt that, you know,
not only ourselves
162
00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:10,333
if there was something to take away
from it, but if, down the road,
163
00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:13,013
other farmers have examples
that they can follow
164
00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:17,013
to help them make better decisions,
then how can you be against that?
165
00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:19,973
AS: Can you talk a little bit about
the manure management project?
166
00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:23,240
Who knew that value-adding manure,
that would be a thing, right?
167
00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:27,413
AT: Maybe I'm raising too high
of an expectation for this research,
168
00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:30,733
or I hope not; I don't want him
to feel like he's under any pressure,
169
00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:34,840
but I just feel that we can do
better in that department.
170
00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:38,693
AS: Every farm is always striving
to do better with their output
171
00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:42,413
and the ways that they're trying to
achieve their outputs, I guess.
172
00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:44,813
So you had mentioned
that there was some objectives
173
00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:47,653
that you had identified for your farm
that would be in line with this research.
174
00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:49,493
Clearly, manure management
was one of them.
175
00:09:49,560 --> 00:09:51,520
Were there other things that stood out?
176
00:09:52,680 --> 00:09:56,493
AT: There's a couple of fellows
that are doing air quality in the barn.
177
00:09:56,560 --> 00:09:59,693
They were looking for barns
that were naturally ventilated.
178
00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:03,213
They were looking for barns that
were traditionally, with exhaust fans
179
00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:04,613
and things like that.
180
00:10:04,680 --> 00:10:08,773
Here, we have it all:
we have an old tie stall barn,
181
00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:12,853
we have a freestyle barn
with tunnel ventilation,
182
00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:16,173
and we have a naturally ventilated barn.
183
00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:19,973
Our milking groups
are all housed in those areas.
184
00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:22,853
This one carries a pretty big
significance for me.
185
00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:24,733
-I'm also a nurse.
-AS: Right.
186
00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:27,213
AT: And my father-in-law
had farmer's lung.
187
00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:29,893
It was debilitating for him.
188
00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:33,013
It made him absolutely sick
to go into the barn.
189
00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:34,453
He tried everything.
190
00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:36,293
He tried all different kinds of masks.
191
00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:39,653
It was really difficult for him,
and we all tried to help him
192
00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:43,933
the best that we could to find solutions,
but it wasn't possible.
193
00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:47,733
I do not want to have
a recurrence of that.
194
00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:50,973
Like, I want everybody
to stay as healthy as possible.
195
00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:54,213
So, I'm very interested to see
what the data might show
196
00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:56,413
for our air quality.
197
00:10:56,480 --> 00:11:00,733
I grew up on the same river,
just a little bit down the road from here.
198
00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:02,973
I care a lot about the river.
199
00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:07,813
It's gone from being very polluted
to improving significantly,
200
00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:10,613
probably in the last 30 to 35 years.
201
00:11:10,680 --> 00:11:13,653
They're talking about riparian strips
and they're talking about
202
00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:17,373
many different things
to solidify the river bank,
203
00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:19,333
and I'm very interested in that.
204
00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:23,253
And my son-in-law is also
very keen on things like that,
205
00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:27,133
and that's where— we consider
our whole family to be part of this farm,
206
00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:28,813
but they're not all employees.
207
00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:32,093
They all have another life somewhere,
too, but they're here a lot
208
00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:33,333
and they help us a lot.
209
00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:38,053
And it's fun to be able to pull the
extended family into projects like this
210
00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:41,253
based on things
that are very interesting to them, too.
211
00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:45,573
So I'm afraid I'm not a field person
or a crop person.
212
00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:49,080
My son manages all of that work for us.
213
00:11:49,680 --> 00:11:54,613
Whatever things can improve
in the fields would be great.
214
00:11:54,680 --> 00:11:58,173
He's done some things
with the two researchers that were here.
215
00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:00,613
AS: Well, and it sounds like you all bring
your own strengths and interests
216
00:12:00,680 --> 00:12:02,493
to the table,
including the extended family,
217
00:12:02,560 --> 00:12:05,813
so that really gives a whole
holistic view to the operation
218
00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:07,773
and to this project
that you're involved in.
219
00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:09,853
There's clearly a link
to progressive change.
220
00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:12,213
Obviously, you're talking about,
too, the river
221
00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:15,373
and how it's continually improved
over the last 35 years.
222
00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:18,413
Can you tell me about
how your farm's view,
223
00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:22,040
your business values
align with that perspective?
224
00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:26,933
AT: One of the values that
we have here is guardianship
225
00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:31,533
or stewardship of the land.
Everybody farms for a different reason.
226
00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:33,973
You know,
everybody's motivation is different.
227
00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:37,973
The men that I've known, and the girls,
228
00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:42,173
really have a passion for the farm,
the land, the animals.
229
00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:44,853
They're natural dairymen.
230
00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:47,733
My father-in-law was that way as well.
231
00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:50,413
It's a common trait
that we see in them all.
232
00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:53,333
They take that responsibility
quite seriously
233
00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:57,773
and they take the use of best practices
very seriously.
234
00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:02,653
That example was started with Ken's dad
and the progressive moves that he made,
235
00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:06,493
not just so that the cows would be
more comfortable or better cared for,
236
00:13:06,560 --> 00:13:09,253
but also the people
that were doing the work, too.
237
00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:11,893
He was very conscious,
taking care of his body
238
00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:14,773
and making things not as hard
as they needed to be.
239
00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:16,773
That's the philosophy that we work with.
240
00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:19,133
It's hard to make change.
241
00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:22,973
Everybody gets very comfortable
in the things that they do,
242
00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:27,413
but progressive change
or change in degrees
243
00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:30,493
often sticks better than massive change.
244
00:13:30,560 --> 00:13:34,533
It's very hard to cope
with massive change, good or bad.
245
00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:38,613
That's the slow and steady nature
of the family here.
246
00:13:38,680 --> 00:13:40,653
They're the tortoise, not the hare.
247
00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:43,653
It's very much reflective
of our region, I would say.
248
00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:50,493
This is a very mixed Francophone,
Scottish, Irish region.
249
00:13:50,560 --> 00:13:54,653
That seems to be the nature
of the people around here.
250
00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:58,173
It's easy to do when you have a lot of
like-minded people around you.
251
00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:02,533
AS: So thoughtful, incremental change
is really what your approach
252
00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:04,653
is for any type of innovation?
253
00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:07,733
AT: Whatever is being
presented to us as the issue
254
00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:11,413
or being presented to us
as the thing that has to change
255
00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:16,293
has to come
with a defendable reason as well.
256
00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:19,733
You know, they're not people
to jump on the bandwagon and say,
257
00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:22,078
“Okay, let's do this and do it tomorrow.”
258
00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:27,413
AS: This podcast has been
brought to you by AgExpert,
259
00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,453
farm management software
designed for Canadian agriculture.
260
00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:32,840
Learn more at AgExpert.ca.
261
00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:37,013
AS: So it's a multiple year project,
you were saying, right?
262
00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:38,853
AT: Yeah.
AS: And so, when you first met
263
00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:42,733
with the UPA and then Novalait,
who's managing this Living Labs program,
264
00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:45,293
and you said that the researchers
presented their projects,
265
00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:49,260
you met in person with the researchers.
What was that like?
266
00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:51,813
AT: [laughs]
267
00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:54,040
It was like speed dating!
268
00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:59,453
Based on what your priorities were,
you were assigned as a group.
269
00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:02,653
Everybody was given a number and that
was the group that you stayed with.
270
00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:06,813
You rotated around or,
in some cases, you stayed where you were
271
00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:09,613
and the researchers came to you,
and they had so many minutes
272
00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:11,813
to make their presentation.
273
00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:15,853
Or vice versa, like when we were
telling them what our needs were,
274
00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:19,093
you have a certain allotted time
to ask your questions,
275
00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:22,333
and after that they either
took the data and said,
276
00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:26,133
“Okay, we'll come up with a project,”
or, on the second time around,
277
00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:29,533
we signed up if the project
was interesting for us.
278
00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:33,093
It was interesting because by staying
with the same group all the time,
279
00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:36,613
you got to know different people
and different regions.
280
00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:40,573
My understanding was that one of
the reasons that the Province of Quebec
281
00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:45,133
was chosen is because we have
such a varied land base
282
00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:49,613
within our territories
that it was pretty representative
283
00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:55,293
of the whole of Canada in terms of
types of soil or weather patterns
284
00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:56,733
and things like that.
285
00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:01,293
That's something I'm very proud of
because I didn't even realize that myself,
286
00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:04,453
and that we can represent
the whole of Canada
287
00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:06,613
I found to be very significant.
288
00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:08,613
AS: It's such a cool project,
289
00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:11,093
and the things that you're
going to be learning on your farm,
290
00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:14,693
in terms of better practices
or best practices,
291
00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:17,493
dairy farms across Canada
are going to benefit from this
292
00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:21,693
and be able to take what you're
learning and consider applying it
293
00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:24,653
to their own operations,
and in the end be better.
294
00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:26,853
That's the theory;
that's the plan, right?
295
00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:28,133
I think it's super cool
296
00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:31,173
and I think it's right for you
to be super proud of that.
297
00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:35,973
AT: And if you're making such
a significant investment in some cases,
298
00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:38,373
like financial investment,
299
00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:42,173
you have to have something
to base it on
300
00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:44,213
and it can't just be data.
301
00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:47,333
Like, you have to have
people's personal experiences
302
00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:50,333
in terms of what the challenges were.
303
00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:52,893
How feasible is it
or how complicated is it?
304
00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:56,720
And that's where I see
the benefit is on both sides.
305
00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:00,813
AS: If there was another farmer
that was considering participating
306
00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:03,693
in a program like this, either in
the dairy sector or another sector,
307
00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:08,733
because there's Living Lab projects
in different ag sectors across Canada,
308
00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:11,573
what would you tell them
about this type of research
309
00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:13,573
and why would you encourage them
to participate?
310
00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:17,093
AT: I'd like to encourage people
to participate in everything,
311
00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:23,173
but you cannot be convinced
to be a participant.
312
00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:27,093
I really feel that it has to come
from the person
313
00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:29,813
or the team themselves to say,
314
00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:31,573
“This is a really great idea
315
00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:34,973
and we really think
that this is something very positive,
316
00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:37,453
and let's try and move it forward.”
317
00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:40,853
But you also have to recognize
the commitment to that
318
00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:44,173
and you have to recognize
the willingness to go along
319
00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:45,693
with whatever you might be asked.
320
00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:48,093
We only had two researchers this year,
321
00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:52,093
and the only requirement
that we were asked to do was to
322
00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:55,693
seed a portion of our field
on a diagonal direction
323
00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:58,173
instead of vertical/horizontal directions
324
00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:02,293
so that he would be able to recognize
where his plot was
325
00:18:02,360 --> 00:18:04,360
and take his data accordingly.
326
00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:08,653
We have a manageable
number of acres: that's not too hard.
327
00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:10,333
But for somebody, it is.
328
00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:14,373
You really can't take on a project
like this if you're already overwhelmed
329
00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:17,813
because it's not going to be
functional for you.
330
00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:22,813
You have to be able to say to yourself,
“Okay, like, I can commit to this
331
00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:26,400
and I'll do my best,”
and feel good about doing your best.
332
00:18:27,360 --> 00:18:30,453
If that's everybody's case,
well, then there's no problem,
333
00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:32,493
but people should not be guilted
334
00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:34,773
just because we're talking
about the environment
335
00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:37,453
and we're talking about achieving goals
336
00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:41,720
and we're talking about
a significant worldwide situation.
337
00:18:42,360 --> 00:18:46,613
I would hope that nobody would feel
badly for not participating
338
00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:48,569
if they felt they really couldn't.
339
00:18:49,120 --> 00:18:50,613
AS: That's such a great perspective.
340
00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:54,053
You only have a certain amount of time
and resources and energy.
341
00:18:54,120 --> 00:18:56,293
It doesn't mean
that the project's not important,
342
00:18:56,360 --> 00:19:00,053
but the people that do have that ability
and the resources to do it,
343
00:19:00,120 --> 00:19:01,693
then they can step up.
344
00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:03,893
And sometimes that might not be
at that point in time,
345
00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:05,013
but it might be later.
346
00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:08,613
Like, the whole concept of guilt
is a big one.
347
00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:12,613
AT: I don't think I've ever met anybody
in the farming world
348
00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:15,573
that does not want to do their best.
349
00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:20,453
If somebody is struggling or having
difficulty getting their work done,
350
00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:22,533
it's not because
they're not really trying,
351
00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:28,853
because farmers prioritize
this type of life, this type of work.
352
00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:32,613
I think it's a similar thing
where you might say,
353
00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:37,253
“Okay, yeah, I think it's important
and we'll listen to you,
354
00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:39,653
but we can't do more
than what we're doing right now.”
355
00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:43,613
If there was ever any message
that I would like to pass on
356
00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:47,533
to any kind of policymakers
or decision-makers,
357
00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:51,893
and even just the general public,
like, we can't work harder than we are.
358
00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:56,213
We're trying to find ways
to manage the tasks that we have,
359
00:19:56,280 --> 00:20:00,373
but we can only manage
based on our revenue
360
00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:04,400
and everybody is struggling with that,
especially right now.
361
00:20:05,360 --> 00:20:08,373
So, it takes a little bit
of a tolerance level
362
00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:12,333
from all areas
to help things move forward.
363
00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:16,013
AS: Yeah.
Regardless if it's time or finances,
364
00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:18,853
you have to have those
resources available to you
365
00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:22,693
to implement these changes
and to do more or to change your approach.
366
00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:25,693
Why do you feel
it's important for agriculture,
367
00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:29,693
specifically dairy,
to work towards reducing carbon emissions?
368
00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:33,733
Like, you talked about this is
a worldwide situation, obviously.
369
00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:37,173
Why do you think that
these objectives have been set
370
00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:40,120
and it's important
to support these objectives?
371
00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:44,160
AT: Well, I don't think it's any secret
372
00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:48,133
that animals are big producers
of methane gas,
373
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:54,373
and that seems to be what the
priority challenge in terms of managing
374
00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:58,973
our global climate situation right now is.
375
00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:02,973
This group of people that I work with here
are natural dairymen.
376
00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:08,040
This is where their passion lies,
and none of us want that to change.
377
00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:11,973
And in order to do that,
then we have to be smart
378
00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:14,693
and we have to figure out solutions
379
00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:18,000
to be able to continue
doing the work that we love.
380
00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:22,453
And the consumers,
or the general population,
381
00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:26,493
are also trying to find some solutions
that work for them
382
00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:31,933
because they have their own values
that they base their purchases on,
383
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:33,000
and that's fair.
384
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:36,093
But at the same time,
385
00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:40,853
dairy cows and milk are not going to be
eliminated from the market either,
386
00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:46,320
and we have to come up with the solutions
that we need to make this happen.
387
00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:52,453
We're all in this together
and this universe is going to continue
388
00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:54,533
one way or the other,
389
00:21:54,600 --> 00:22:00,733
but I think it's a general concept
that if you do nothing, nothing happens,
390
00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:04,413
and if nothing happens
then things don't improve.
391
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:05,653
AS: Right.
392
00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:09,933
AT: I think that we have to
look back a little bit
393
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:14,413
to see what challenges
the people before us faced.
394
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:19,293
Perhaps they weren't facing
climate change, but maybe they were.
395
00:22:19,360 --> 00:22:23,373
We're on a big wheel that just
keeps going around and around,
396
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:27,213
but they also had significant problems
and significant issues
397
00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:30,293
that they had to address,
and they did it sensibly
398
00:22:30,360 --> 00:22:32,533
and they did it carefully.
399
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:36,933
And we can chip away at this
400
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:42,613
if we all work at it together,
but I would just like people to recognize
401
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:46,173
that we're all in it together
and that we need to work together.
402
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:50,533
And hopefully, based on the results
of what these researchers find,
403
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:54,773
we're going to make some changes
with the support of, again,
404
00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:59,173
our policymakers and our federations
that govern our industry
405
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:03,053
to see a decline in the trends
that we're currently seeing.
406
00:23:03,120 --> 00:23:06,253
And a big part
of the challenge with that
407
00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:09,653
is communicating the information to people
408
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:14,893
and communicating it in a way that it
makes it doable for them to implement.
409
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:17,853
That's always a challenge,
no matter what,
410
00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:20,573
but the more ambassadors
that we can have
411
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:24,773
to support and encourage people
to jump on board with this,
412
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:27,229
the better it's going to be
in the long run.
413
00:23:28,120 --> 00:23:30,853
AS: Well, yeah, and this is such
a great thing about this program,
414
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:33,493
is that it's farmers
at the ground level, right?
415
00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,453
So, congratulations to your
for participating on this project
416
00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:38,909
and I can't wait to hear
where it takes you.
417
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,973
AS: I did get to talk to Amy again
since recording this interview.
418
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:47,133
Her farm had just received
their bilan, or evaluation,
419
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:48,813
from the Living Lab.
420
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:54,533
The farm summary showed
that they provide milk to 21,472 people,
421
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:59,480
an equivalent of their local community
having 10 glasses of milk per day.
422
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:01,693
In the days that they work so hard,
423
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:04,053
Amy said that this gives
their work meaning,
424
00:24:04,120 --> 00:24:06,733
knowing just how much
they provide for their community,
425
00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:08,933
let alone the Province of Quebec.
426
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:12,373
The Laboratoire vivant
gives them the opportunity to have
427
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:14,493
input from people with different ideas
428
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:17,653
that they can work towards implementing
to improve their score.
429
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:19,813
She'll be using these results
to motivate her team
430
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:23,013
to keep up the good work
and continue to work towards good habits
431
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:25,024
and thoughtful decisions, she said.
432
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:29,453
Change, however,
can sometimes be painful and difficult,
433
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:32,773
and the best practices of an industry
built on stability and routine
434
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:35,062
are often met with resistance, Amy said.
435
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:38,773
AS: To quote Amy,
“We are comfortable with the way we work,
436
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,340
and the result is clearly
not a failing score.
437
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:45,333
Farming and feeding our nation
are the grassroots of our country.
438
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:48,413
Agriculture is the foundation
that stabilizes our economy
439
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:52,591
and reinforces the meaning, purpose,
and value that many are searching for.
440
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,373
I believe with programs
like the Laboratoire vivant,
441
00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:00,613
the results and research reinforces
what we have and builds on this base
442
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:04,253
to help improve the direction
that we need to follow for improvement.
443
00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:06,173
The choice to do this belongs to us.
444
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:09,173
Making thoughtful choices enables
us to be the example for those
445
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:12,280
in our sector
and in other industries.” End quote.
446
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:15,933
Illustrating how the world
will benefit from good choices
447
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:19,293
is the pathway to success,
and Amy is well on her way
448
00:25:19,360 --> 00:25:22,916
to helping influence some
smart business practices going forward.
449
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:29,173
AS: Did you enjoy this episode?
450
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:31,693
Be sure to share it
with your family and friends.
451
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:35,053
Please do subscribe so you can be the
first to know when we drop new episodes.
452
00:25:35,120 --> 00:25:37,853
And if you have feedback
or topic ideas you'd like to share,
453
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:39,493
go ahead and leave us a review.
454
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:43,960
Your feedback will help us make decisions
on what's valuable to you as a listener.
455
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:56,013
The FCC Knowledge Podcast
is a Farm Credit Canada production
456
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:58,413
in collaboration
with Roman Empire Studios.
