Throwback: Stephen Tobolowsky - Actor (Groundhog Day / Mississippi Burning / The Goldbergs)

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Hey, Street Walkers. This is a throwback episode with guests
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Stephen Tobolowski. Stephen first appeared on the show August fifteenth,
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twenty twenty two, and it was such a compelling and
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fun episode that I decided that it needed to be revisited.
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So enjoy this throwback episode. Tell a friend and thanks
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for listening.
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This is Stephen Tobolowski and you're listening to Fascination Street
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podcast Bing you win.
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I believe that everybody has a story, and I'm fascinated
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to hear them, So come with me as we take
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a walk down Fascination Street. Welcome back, Street Walkers. This
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episode is with the great Steven Tobolowski. You know him
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from everything from Garfield to Mississippi Burning to being need
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Ryerson in Groundhog Day. In this episode, we talk about
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almost none of that. We get to know Steven. We
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talk about becoming an actor, we talk about relationships, but
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mostly Stephen tells us how his life was changed and
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he was affected by several different women throughout his life.
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They all made a meaningful impact in Steven's life and
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helped him become the man he is today. We don't
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talk about any of the things that you think we're
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going to talk about and it's still an enthralling and
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engaging episode. You're really gonna enjoy this. And this is
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my conversation with the remarkably talented and super generous Steven Tobolowski.
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Welcome to Fascination Street Podcast. Steven Tobolowski, how are you
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doing today?
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Man? I am doing good. I'm doing very good considering
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we're so close to the end of the world.
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Oh, that is sadly very true. It's funny only because
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it's true.
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No, wait a minute, Well, the only reason we feel
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like it's at the end of the world because all
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the things that we are accustomed to suddenly aren't happening.
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And you know, the world could be just fine, but
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it's a different world than we know it. I went
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to the drug store to get some allergy medicine. Have
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you done this lately? No, let me tell you, empty shelves.
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What where do you live?
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I live on a mountaintop in No. I live in
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Los Angeles, And I'm going like, why don't they have
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a legra anywhere? Why don't they have any allergy medicine?
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Empty shelves? So I had to go on the internet
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and I found out that there is a COVID of
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course related shortage in that a vital ingredient in most
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allergy medicine comes from China, and so with the pandemic
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and with everything being closed down and manufacturing stopping and
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shutting down, there is a shortage of this and so
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grab it while you can, ladies and gentlemen, grab that
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allergy medicine, win and where you find it, because the
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shortage hit England in May, and that's when they had
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empty shelves of allergy medicine. And now it's just the
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way is coming to the United States. So you know,
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we all need allergy medicine. You know, I don't know
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about you, but I certainly do. And you know, no restaurants,
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no theater, no going to movies. You know, it's just
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not the world we're familiar with.
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That is sad and heartbreaking and you've just ruined my
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entire weekend. Thanks buddysure my pleasure.
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Hey, you know this is my motto. Not telling someone
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bad news is not the same as good news.
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It's worse news, right, it is worse.
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Not telling someone bad news is not good news. It's
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worse news.
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That is correct.
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I mean if we see what the world really is,
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then maybe we have a chance of adapting and having
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some fun. Like I'm fascination street.
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I love that you said that, my man, because as
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soon as I get done here, I'm going to go
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take a whole bottle of allgra and see what happens. Stephen.
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What I like to do is I like to start
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from the beginning, so it helps us get to understand
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how you came to be who you are. So where
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were you born and raised? Man? I think that you're
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a Texas boy.
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Yeah, I'm a Texas boy. I grew up in oak Cliff,
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which is, I want to say, about twenty eight miles
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from downtown Dallas, so it was the early fifties. Oakcliffe
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is what you would. I didn't know it at the
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time was a white flight area, which is very much
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kind of one of the things that what made me
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what I am. I didn't know it, but there were
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no black people in Ocliff at the time. There were
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only three that I knew, and it was our maid,
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Leonora Alice nell Allen, who lived down the street, who
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I proposed to when she was five and I was
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five and a half six. I was a little older
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her maid Claudie and my father's custodian Thomas. So anyway,
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one of the things that forged me was I grew
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up in this community and our family was Jewish and
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they hated the Jews. Who did our community?
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Your whole Oak Cliff hated the Jews.
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There were more Nazis whoa I mean that were in
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the party. I'm not you know. Now we're in an
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age where we call everybody a Nazi is someone we
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disagree with. These were people who were in the party.
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They paid dues. I remember I played basketball at Carpenter
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Elementary School. I was terrible. But our guard on that
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was John Rutledge, and John invited us over after one
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of our many losses to his house for Pimeno cheese
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sandwiches and Coca Cola r sia col I think was
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the drink of choice. And I went over there and
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they had no idea I was Jewish. He had Nazi
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flags on either side of the fireplace, you know, like
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coming out of the wall, like hello, not little flags,
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I mean like flag flags, and a bust of Adolf Hitler.
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Of Adolf Hitler.
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Wow.
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They had Storm Trooper magazine on the coffee table like
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it was Time magazine or Life, you know, like, oh,
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here's Stormtrooper magazine. You know. Of course there were lovely
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people on No Cliff too. A lot of the loveliest,
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loveliest people I knew were fundamentalist Christians, you know, people
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who didn't listen to music, who didn't go to dances,
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and that kind of thing, because.
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It was like too crazy, like footloose.
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Maybe like footlooth. You know. It was that kind of
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thing and the thing that shaped me. Of course, what
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the Founding fathers intentionally or unintentionally wanted to do was
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create a world that was white and antaccepted. You know,
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this is our world and our culture, and this is
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what we are. It had the opposite effect on me
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because so many of the white people I knew were
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horrific bullies. You know. In my school, one of them,
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I remember we were playing and he put a pitchfork
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through my foot. Serious stuff. They shot our cat, They
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shot our cat. These are the kind of people that
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I grew up with. But Leonora, our black Maid, and
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Claudie Alice Allen's Black Maid were two of the most
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amazing and remarkable people I had ever met in my life.
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Claudie was, as Alice now told me a couple of
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years ago, the bravest person she had ever known. I
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did not know it at the time, but Alice was
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in an abusive home. They beat her up all the time.
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Her mother would come in and stick a gun in
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her face when she's a little girl, and say, say
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your prayers. This is the last night you're going to
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be alive. And Claudie found out about this and stood
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between those parents and Alice spent the night, didn't go home,
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spent the night with Alice and stood up to them
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and said, you come close to this job, you hurt
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this child, You're gonna have to deal with me. And
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Claudie protected that little girl until Alice got to the
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age of eighteen. And Alice left home and never came
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back again, never came back again. And Alice told me
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when we spoke a couple of years ago, never saw
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her parents again, never did anything. But she ended up
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working as a nurse and financially would help Claudie. She
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was with Claudie for the rest of Claudie's life. She
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would help her, she would give her medical care, she
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would do anything she wanted. She said, I was at
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her grave when she died. She was a true hero.
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These were the kind of people that influenced me. Lenora,
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our maid, in between working at our home, decided she
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had to sell Avon product's door to door to make
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a living. And she did pretty good at it, and
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she kept moving up the ladder at Avon and eventually
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she became a district or regional manager something like that.
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She became a millionaire. And she came to my mother
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and father and said, I'd like to buy your house.
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And mom and dad were like, huh. She says, I
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always wanted to own the house that I worked in,
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and my mother and father sold Leonora the house and
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every stick of furniture in it. Lenora ended up becoming
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a tycoon, multimillionaire, owning like twenty two properties in Dallas,
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including apartment buildings, restaurants, businesses, everything. Leonora multimillionaire. I got
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to see Leonora just a few years ago. I went
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to Dallas and went back to back home and our house.
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How many people can go back to their childhood home
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and it looks exactly the same because Leonora didn't change
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a piece of furniture. It was all the same. And
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I came in and saw Lenora. She said, Stevie, you'd
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be so happy with what we've done in your house.
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We've turned it into a church and we've saved a
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lot of souls in here. Wow, Lenora, one of the
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greatest people. Want so these people framed me, I'm just rambling,
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you said, Okay, if I ramble.
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This is fantastic. Knock yourself out.
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Okay. Phase two of my upbringing. Besides having these people
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that I looked to as an example, Leonora, Claudie Thomas,
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amazing people. I got sick when I was twelve, got
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very sick. I don't know what it was, but internal bleeding.
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I started losing weight.
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It lasted a couple of years, right, a.
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Couple of years. My father thought cancer, nothing like your
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parents crying at night, that'll straighten you out. And no
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one could figure out anything of what it was colliitis
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of some sort. I have no idea what caused it,
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autoimmune kind of thing. But I couldn't play football or
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anything anymore. So when I went to junior high school
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those miserable years, how does anyone survive junior high school?
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High school, at least you have girls you can look at.
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But junior high is just like Miserable. Everybody's a brat
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and monstrous, and the teachers are horrible. Anyway, I had
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to be in study hall, and I had four study
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halls a day off and on, not continuously, because I
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couldn't play. I couldn't do anything, and so I started
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reading in study halls. And one thing I started doing
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was reading plays. And I remember I decided I would
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read king Lear and I could hardly understand it, being
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in eighth grade reading king Lear. And then there was
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a line I think it's of Albany in there. He
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says who is it that can say this is the worst?
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And I heard that line and it resonated with me
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in a big time way. Who is it that can
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say this is the worst? I mean, we could apply
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it to today. Is this the worst? Who is it
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that can say this is the worst? You know, that
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bottom floor goes way down? And I thought I liked plays,
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and I started reading more and more plays, and the
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one thing I could do was be in debate, and
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I could be in plays in school. So I started
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being in place in school and people always laughed at me,
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So I thought this is good. And I went into
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high school and was clearly on the debate team was
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doing school plays, and my illness stopped when I was fifteen,
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just stopped. It was gone, gone, And I went to
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a bevy of doctors, and so you know, I was
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taking a new medication at the time, something called pathabamate
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five hundred, and I looked it up. It's no longer prescribed,
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but it was something when you have epilepsy.
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When you have seizures, seizures.
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It was anti seizure medicine.
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Wow.
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And for some reason they I think they still sell
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it in Europe, but they don't sell it in America anymore.
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I took pathabamme eate five hundred like two three times
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a day, and it went away like this. And so
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by the time I was fifteen, I was good and
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I was in a school that had a lot of plays.
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Mary Curtis, our drama teacher.
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Were you still in Oakcliffe?
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Yes, Okay, still in Oakcliffe. Mary Curtis, our drama teacher,
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was either the greatest or the worst drama teacher in
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the world, because she would always sneak out and get
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these great experts that were in the city to direct
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the place for She would take credit for it, but
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everybody thought Mary Curtis was the greatest director in the world.
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She's probably the greatest producer in the world, and maybe
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the greatest high school drama teacher in the world, because
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we were taught by really amazing people who directed the
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place that Mary was supposed to do. So I did
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tons of plays in high school and that's when I decided, Hey,
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I want to be an actor.
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Wow.
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So that line from King Lear, who is it that
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can say this is the worst? At the time that
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you read that, you were in the throes of this illness, right, yeah,
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so I'm assuming to your young mind you were like, look,
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this illness sucks. This is not the greatest thing for me.
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But that little girl had to get stuck in her
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face when she's a little kid, like, things can always
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get worse, right, Yes, yes, So I can understand how
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that would really strike a nerve with you and you
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would take it to heart. When was it that you
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decided that acting is what you wanted to do as
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a career.
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You know, I found something down here I wish I
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could show you, but it's in too big of a
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pile of stuff. But on career day in ninth.
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Grade, why do you still have that.
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Do you see behind me? Yeah, well it's filled with crap.
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Every one of these things is a tombstone. We all
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have these little memorials that we have for our lives,
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that we create for career day in ninth grade and
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Miss Rough's class was my life is a professional actor.
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And I remember I finished and showed my mother at
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home and she goes, professional actor. What no, no, oh, no,
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you gonna be a doctor. You're gonna be a lawyer.
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You know you'll be in debate, You'll be a lawyer.
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So I knew in ninth grade I was bitten by
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the acting bug. But really by the time I was
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in tenth grade, we did The Miser and I played
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arpat Gone. We did a one act play version of
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The Miser in competition and we won city, we won regional,
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and then we did not win state, but I got
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honorable mention as best Actor in State. But when I
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was a junior, we did Euripides Trojan Women, and I
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played the dual role of tau Phibius, the Greek soldier
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with a heart and Poseidon, god of the Deep. And
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for this role we went all the way to state
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and I won the award of the best Actor in
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the State of Texas.
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Who where's that a word?
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It's somewhere over here, it's a little piece of it's
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right over there. Actually, I think right over here, I
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00:15:58.960 --> 00:16:01.759
have all sorts of lilow stupid acting things over here.
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The dumb things are the things that matter. Those are
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00:16:04.480 --> 00:16:07.639
the first ones, you know, the first time you get
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the pat on the shoulder from playing teu Phibius, the
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00:16:11.039 --> 00:16:14.759
soldier with lots of grease paint on who cries holding
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the dead baby. That meant a lot to me, and
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00:16:18.600 --> 00:16:21.039
it certainly meant a lot to mister Durrett, our principal
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at school, who went on and on and on about
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me as tau Phibius, the Greek soldier with a heart.
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But I decided, well, if I win best Actor in
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the State of Texas in the one act play contest,
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who knows what awaits me at?
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Oh boy?
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00:16:37.799 --> 00:16:40.639
If I only knew, then who is that good? Say?
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This is the worst? So I studied for nothing other
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00:16:44.879 --> 00:16:48.840
than drama. I applied to one school SMU. I had
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no idea at the time. It was one of the
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top five drama colleges in the country. They had an
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00:16:54.480 --> 00:16:58.480
amazing drama department, so I applied. My father went to SMU,
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00:16:58.559 --> 00:17:02.759
so I got in, and there began the trial by
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00:17:02.840 --> 00:17:05.799
fire of you know, being a student in college. And
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00:17:05.839 --> 00:17:10.079
that's when I met myself upon the field of battle,
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00:17:10.359 --> 00:17:14.680
and I won. I didn't think i'd win, but I won.
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You know, everything was stripped away from me. I had
311
00:17:18.079 --> 00:17:21.319
a teacher who was destined to destroy me and get
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00:17:21.359 --> 00:17:24.079
me expelled from the drama program for some reason. I
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00:17:24.119 --> 00:17:26.799
don't know why. Well I do know why, because she
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00:17:26.880 --> 00:17:30.119
thought I was a cut up. She thought I was
315
00:17:30.319 --> 00:17:34.839
not serious enough for Stanislavsky. She became a new teacher
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00:17:34.920 --> 00:17:38.799
my sophomore year. Her name is John Potter, and Bernard Hobgood,
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00:17:38.799 --> 00:17:40.599
who was head of the department, wanted me to do
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00:17:40.799 --> 00:17:44.079
freshman auditions when I was a sophomore. I had already
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00:17:44.079 --> 00:17:46.400
done freshman audition one, but he wanted me to audition
320
00:17:46.480 --> 00:17:49.359
again with all the little freshmen because we had all
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00:17:49.359 --> 00:17:52.799
these new teachers. To impress the new teachers. So I
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00:17:52.839 --> 00:17:56.720
did the same audition I did as a freshman, but
323
00:17:56.839 --> 00:18:00.880
to be funny, I did my speed each from as
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00:18:00.880 --> 00:18:03.880
you like It, Orlando, and as you like it. These
325
00:18:03.920 --> 00:18:06.079
trees shall be my books, and in their barks my
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00:18:06.160 --> 00:18:09.720
thoughts on character, that every eye within this forest look
327
00:18:09.759 --> 00:18:12.599
shall see thy virtue witness everywhere. I did it as
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00:18:12.640 --> 00:18:15.799
a strip tease. So I'm doing the speech and taking
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00:18:15.880 --> 00:18:18.279
off my clothes and I end up with just my
330
00:18:18.839 --> 00:18:21.880
boxer shorts on, and I wrote high hob on my butt,
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00:18:22.079 --> 00:18:24.799
and at the end of the monologue, I turned and
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00:18:24.920 --> 00:18:27.480
did my butt to the audience and danced off stage.
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00:18:27.799 --> 00:18:31.519
The audience was in hysterics. Everyone was laughing. But I
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00:18:31.559 --> 00:18:34.640
suspect this teacher, John Potter, thought I was not the
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00:18:34.759 --> 00:18:37.440
right stuff, and she was determined to get me out
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00:18:37.440 --> 00:18:41.359
of school. I had never had a teacher who would
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00:18:41.440 --> 00:18:45.440
use any means that would be unscrupulous, and teachers are
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00:18:45.480 --> 00:18:48.039
powerful to get what they wanted. They would lie, they
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00:18:48.039 --> 00:18:50.759
would cheat, they would do anything to make sure that
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she could fail me out of school. And I realized
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00:18:54.799 --> 00:18:58.000
this is where Steve met Steve Stephen. In my head,
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00:18:58.480 --> 00:19:00.839
I was in such despair. I know what to do.
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00:19:01.400 --> 00:19:04.759
I went to my theater history teacher, Tony Graham White,
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00:19:04.799 --> 00:19:08.000
at the end of my sophomore year, and I said, Tony,
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00:19:08.119 --> 00:19:11.039
you know that I'm having difficulties with this teacher here.
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00:19:11.319 --> 00:19:13.839
I said, are there any rules against me taking the
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00:19:13.960 --> 00:19:17.839
graduate exam now, and he says, well, no, I mean
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usually people take it the end of I know they
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take it the end of senior year. But can I
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00:19:21.200 --> 00:19:25.359
take the graduate exam now? And so I did, and
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00:19:25.400 --> 00:19:28.359
I said, Tony, don't tell anyone I've taken this test,
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00:19:28.920 --> 00:19:31.480
and if you could just grate it yourself and hold
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00:19:31.519 --> 00:19:33.559
it for me in case I need it. And so
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00:19:34.039 --> 00:19:37.400
I didn't get cast in anything my junior year. She
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00:19:37.559 --> 00:19:40.400
blackballed me from getting cast in anything. So I made
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00:19:40.440 --> 00:19:43.319
her even more furious by going out into the community
357
00:19:43.720 --> 00:19:46.960
to the only equity theater in Dallas, Theater three, and
358
00:19:47.000 --> 00:19:50.319
I got my equity card and I started working professionally,
359
00:19:50.720 --> 00:19:54.920
so that really infuriated her. Joan then started being nice
360
00:19:54.920 --> 00:19:56.920
to me and all this sort of thing. And then
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00:19:57.000 --> 00:20:00.400
I found out six weeks before the end of when
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00:20:00.400 --> 00:20:03.079
I was a senior Bernard Hopgood, my advisor keim Mes,
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00:20:03.079 --> 00:20:06.680
I'm so sorry, Joan Potter has given you an unsatisfactory
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00:20:06.720 --> 00:20:10.599
critique that means you will not be allowed to graduate.
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00:20:11.079 --> 00:20:13.440
And I said why, I mean, I've taken four years
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00:20:13.440 --> 00:20:15.720
of class and everything like this. He says, well, it
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00:20:15.720 --> 00:20:18.279
means you won't be allowed to take the graduate exam.
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00:20:18.519 --> 00:20:20.759
You need that to graduate, I said, I took it
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00:20:20.839 --> 00:20:23.640
two years ago. Hobb talked to Tony Graham White. He
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00:20:23.640 --> 00:20:27.279
has it in his office. I ended up graduating, and
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I ended up graduating first in my class. So I
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won the battle of John Potter.
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00:20:36.119 --> 00:20:39.440
Hey, street walkers, here's a word from our sponsors. So
374
00:20:39.480 --> 00:20:42.480
I ran into previous guest of the show, Chris Gronkowski,
375
00:20:42.519 --> 00:20:47.720
the other day, and it went a little something like this, Hey, Steve, Hey, Chris. Hey,
376
00:20:47.720 --> 00:20:49.680
you know what sucks. When I get done with my
377
00:20:49.759 --> 00:20:53.119
workout at the gym, I protein shake. It's not cold anymore, man,
378
00:20:53.119 --> 00:20:54.079
it's room temperature.
379
00:20:54.559 --> 00:20:54.880
Weird.
380
00:20:55.119 --> 00:20:58.079
I haven't run into you at the gym lately, busted.
381
00:20:58.640 --> 00:21:01.279
Okay, truth be told. I don't work out, but I
382
00:21:01.359 --> 00:21:04.119
do get thirsty after a long day of podcasting. I
383
00:21:04.200 --> 00:21:06.359
just can't seem to keep my cocktails cold.
384
00:21:06.799 --> 00:21:07.960
You should use an ice shaker.
385
00:21:08.279 --> 00:21:09.319
What's an ice shaker?
386
00:21:09.640 --> 00:21:13.400
The ice shaker is a double walled, vacuum insulated, stainless
387
00:21:13.400 --> 00:21:17.119
steel shaker bottle with a patented twist and agitator that
388
00:21:17.200 --> 00:21:18.519
breaks up the protein powders.
389
00:21:18.960 --> 00:21:21.039
So you're saying I should switch to an ice shaker.
390
00:21:21.279 --> 00:21:23.559
Take out the agitator struck and fit more ice in
391
00:21:23.599 --> 00:21:25.359
the cup and it'll stay cold longer.
392
00:21:25.799 --> 00:21:27.319
Steve, you don't need more ice.
393
00:21:27.519 --> 00:21:30.200
Ice shaker is third party tested and verified to keep
394
00:21:30.200 --> 00:21:32.119
your drink cold for thirty plus hours.
395
00:21:32.519 --> 00:21:36.359
Chris, you're a genius. I'll still remove the patented screw
396
00:21:36.400 --> 00:21:38.759
an agitator and just add more booze.
397
00:21:39.279 --> 00:21:41.799
I guess technically you could, but if you actually use
398
00:21:41.839 --> 00:21:43.960
the ice shaker as a protein drink up, the agitator
399
00:21:43.960 --> 00:21:46.240
breaks up the powder and doesn't bounce around like you're
400
00:21:46.240 --> 00:21:47.599
shaking a pink can.
401
00:21:48.559 --> 00:21:53.880
Why are we still talking. Let's party, grounchtyle. That's right,
402
00:21:53.920 --> 00:21:57.720
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so it doesn't smell all funky if you use it
404
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a couple of times, like those cheap plastic ones. When
405
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I'm out and about doing interviews or party in gronk style,
406
00:22:05.680 --> 00:22:09.240
I use the Fascination Street Podcast Edition twenty six ounce
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408
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until the sun comes up. You saw ice shaker on
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Com promo code f SP. Let's get back into it.
418
00:22:52.720 --> 00:22:57.440
John Potter was such a snake. God, can I say that?
419
00:22:58.200 --> 00:22:59.240
Yeah, you can say that.
420
00:22:59.359 --> 00:23:02.599
She's such a nag. I ended up on Broadway a
421
00:23:02.640 --> 00:23:06.720
few years later, and Joan Potter came to see the show.
422
00:23:06.559 --> 00:23:07.920
On Broadway in New York.
423
00:23:08.119 --> 00:23:11.240
On Broadway in New York, the New York Broadway, the
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00:23:11.240 --> 00:23:15.160
Broadway Broadway, the Broadway Broadway, at the Eugene O'Neil Theater.
425
00:23:15.519 --> 00:23:17.559
I was in a lovely play that we were sure
426
00:23:17.680 --> 00:23:19.839
was going to be an enormous hit. It wasn't, but
427
00:23:20.240 --> 00:23:24.279
we got standing ovations those first performances from everybody before
428
00:23:24.319 --> 00:23:27.519
Frank Rich destroyed us with his review. But Joan Potter
429
00:23:27.759 --> 00:23:31.279
came to see the show and came backstage and came
430
00:23:31.319 --> 00:23:35.519
to my dressing room and said, you're still no good.
431
00:23:36.319 --> 00:23:37.119
You're kidding me.
432
00:23:37.680 --> 00:23:41.960
No, no, And the only thing I was thinking of, Yeah,
433
00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:44.680
but you still had to pay fifty six bucks to
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00:23:44.759 --> 00:23:45.119
see me.
435
00:23:45.720 --> 00:23:47.200
Oh my god, what did you say?
436
00:23:47.720 --> 00:23:51.319
I think I said something along those lines. I said,
437
00:23:51.640 --> 00:23:54.559
but you still paid full price to see me, something
438
00:23:54.640 --> 00:23:57.079
like that. I know, Joan, I know I'm terrible, but
439
00:23:57.119 --> 00:23:59.519
you're still paying full price to see me. Thanks for
440
00:23:59.559 --> 00:24:00.720
seeing the SHO show. Bye Bye.
441
00:24:01.279 --> 00:24:05.000
Wow Snake is the nicest thing you could have said
442
00:24:05.000 --> 00:24:05.759
about that lady.
443
00:24:05.960 --> 00:24:09.400
Oh, she was amazing. And there are people at SMU
444
00:24:09.559 --> 00:24:13.480
that absolutely adored her because what she was to me,
445
00:24:13.599 --> 00:24:16.680
she was the opposite to them. She was a magnificent teacher.
446
00:24:16.960 --> 00:24:18.519
And I got to tell you, you know, there was
447
00:24:18.559 --> 00:24:23.160
a period of time in there where Joan in her class.
448
00:24:23.640 --> 00:24:27.039
She would never grade my papers, she would never grade
449
00:24:27.039 --> 00:24:30.599
my tests, she never gave me assignments in her class,
450
00:24:30.839 --> 00:24:33.359
but for some reason, at the end of the term,
451
00:24:33.640 --> 00:24:35.720
she would always give me an A. And I had
452
00:24:35.839 --> 00:24:40.599
no idea why until I realized, oh, I'm not a
453
00:24:40.640 --> 00:24:43.640
guy who gets bad grades. I was a guy who
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00:24:43.680 --> 00:24:46.720
had close to a four point average. So if you
455
00:24:46.880 --> 00:24:50.920
have this one teacher giving you ds and everybody else
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00:24:51.000 --> 00:24:53.240
is giving you a's, it's going to look like some
457
00:24:53.359 --> 00:24:56.519
kind of setup job. But she had the other thing
458
00:24:56.559 --> 00:25:00.119
in mind. She thought she could give me a's and
459
00:25:00.119 --> 00:25:03.319
then right before graduation, she could screw me up so
460
00:25:03.400 --> 00:25:06.200
I couldn't graduate and she would have the last laugh.
461
00:25:06.279 --> 00:25:08.400
But she didn't know that. I took my test two
462
00:25:08.440 --> 00:25:11.839
years early because I knew not to trust her, not
463
00:25:11.960 --> 00:25:15.400
to trust the situation I was in. Wow, terrible, But
464
00:25:15.680 --> 00:25:19.400
that's kind of how I became an actor. And people
465
00:25:19.440 --> 00:25:21.559
push you around all the time when you're an actor,
466
00:25:21.599 --> 00:25:24.400
and that's part of it. That's fine, that's their job,
467
00:25:24.440 --> 00:25:26.759
and I appreciate what they do when they push me
468
00:25:26.839 --> 00:25:31.079
around with good motives. But what one acting teacher taught
469
00:25:31.119 --> 00:25:34.400
me was ed K Martin, nothing is more important than
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00:25:34.400 --> 00:25:37.160
the play. The play is the thing. People can say
471
00:25:37.200 --> 00:25:40.440
what they want to about you, criticize, do whatever, but
472
00:25:40.640 --> 00:25:43.799
whatever you do, you make the play the most important
473
00:25:43.799 --> 00:25:46.720
thing and not yourself. The ego goes down, and what
474
00:25:46.759 --> 00:25:49.000
you do is you just want to do the best
475
00:25:49.039 --> 00:25:51.759
thing for the show that you possibly can. And so
476
00:25:51.920 --> 00:25:54.440
that helped me a lot all through my career.
477
00:25:54.920 --> 00:25:57.920
Well, this is going to be an awkward introduction. She's
478
00:25:57.920 --> 00:26:00.759
been quiet this whole time as saying yeah.
479
00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:06.160
Yes, no, no. Joan passed on a few years ago.
480
00:26:06.880 --> 00:26:09.839
And I have no idea how people get that way
481
00:26:09.920 --> 00:26:12.920
or how they feel they can. I don't know because
482
00:26:13.000 --> 00:26:15.480
that's not part of my makeup. I mean, I get
483
00:26:15.559 --> 00:26:17.519
mad at people too, and I get upset, but I
484
00:26:17.720 --> 00:26:19.519
never would do that to a student.
485
00:26:20.039 --> 00:26:22.240
That takes a lot of effort, Like, that's a lot
486
00:26:22.319 --> 00:26:26.680
of calories burned just to be a mean person. How
487
00:26:26.759 --> 00:26:27.440
is that helping her?
488
00:26:27.680 --> 00:26:27.880
Yeah?
489
00:26:27.920 --> 00:26:31.359
And I was nineteen, she was a grown up.
490
00:26:32.079 --> 00:26:33.559
Uh No, she wasn't, Stephen.
491
00:26:35.759 --> 00:26:39.279
I know she taught at the Actors Studio. You know,
492
00:26:39.799 --> 00:26:43.039
you made a reputation. Yeah, she had a reputation, a
493
00:26:43.119 --> 00:26:46.599
great reputation. And you know, I worked with another acting
494
00:26:46.720 --> 00:26:50.640
teacher in graduate school, ed K. Martin, who was also
495
00:26:50.920 --> 00:26:54.039
just the mean as a snake, but he was brilliant
496
00:26:54.680 --> 00:26:58.160
and he was not out to destroy you, but he
497
00:26:58.319 --> 00:27:01.440
was had no patience. It was an furiated with people
498
00:27:01.519 --> 00:27:04.400
who were lazier, you know, actors who weren't trying, or
499
00:27:04.480 --> 00:27:07.440
actors who are whatever. I go, like, I'm going from
500
00:27:07.480 --> 00:27:09.480
out of the frying pan with Joan Potter to Endo
501
00:27:09.559 --> 00:27:12.039
the Fire with Ed K Martin, But Ed K. Martin
502
00:27:12.119 --> 00:27:15.000
was a whole other animal, and Ed K. Martin was
503
00:27:15.759 --> 00:27:20.000
a genius. Everywhere I go people who have been taught
504
00:27:20.079 --> 00:27:24.640
by Ed. It's like we still are in silent memorial
505
00:27:24.880 --> 00:27:28.079
and not so silent here on your show. Holly Hunter
506
00:27:28.559 --> 00:27:31.240
was one of Ed's students. So whenever Holly and I
507
00:27:31.400 --> 00:27:33.079
get together, we tell Ed's stories.
508
00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:35.400
Y'all get together a lot, y'all just hang out.
509
00:27:36.720 --> 00:27:39.359
We used to. We work together a lot, like on
510
00:27:39.519 --> 00:27:43.839
that show on Broadway that didn't last. Holly Hunter played
511
00:27:43.880 --> 00:27:44.559
my girlfriend.
512
00:27:44.799 --> 00:27:45.319
Oh cool.
513
00:27:45.720 --> 00:27:49.400
And when I directed Miss Firecracker Contest in New York,
514
00:27:49.480 --> 00:27:52.039
I cast Holly Hunter as the lead because I thought,
515
00:27:52.319 --> 00:27:54.000
no one's going to be better than Holly, and so
516
00:27:54.119 --> 00:27:57.359
did Beth Beth Henley, who wrote it. You know, nobody's
517
00:27:57.359 --> 00:27:59.039
gonna play this part better than Holly Hunter.
518
00:27:59.279 --> 00:28:01.279
Beth Henley didn't. She went a Pulitzer Prize.
519
00:28:01.559 --> 00:28:02.000
She did.
520
00:28:02.160 --> 00:28:05.000
Yeah, it was amazing. Beth and I were together for
521
00:28:05.079 --> 00:28:06.359
about sixteen years.
522
00:28:06.799 --> 00:28:06.960
Oh.
523
00:28:07.680 --> 00:28:10.400
I fell in love with her at first sight. At SMU.
524
00:28:11.039 --> 00:28:13.599
I was a sophomore and she was a freshman, and
525
00:28:13.720 --> 00:28:17.160
I was very stressed because as a freshman I didn't
526
00:28:17.160 --> 00:28:20.559
get any parts. Of course, freshmen, you spear carriers and
527
00:28:20.640 --> 00:28:22.960
you move scenery and that's all. But now I was
528
00:28:23.039 --> 00:28:26.480
a sophomore, and it was tough me coming from Kimball
529
00:28:26.559 --> 00:28:29.599
and Mary Curtis, where I was the king of theater.
530
00:28:30.279 --> 00:28:33.599
You know, I won the State of Texas for Telphibius,
531
00:28:33.680 --> 00:28:36.680
the soldier that cried, you know, from coming and having
532
00:28:36.759 --> 00:28:39.039
such high hopes, then you go to college and you
533
00:28:39.160 --> 00:28:41.519
go like, oh, well, now I'm with all these other
534
00:28:41.599 --> 00:28:44.079
people that were stars in their high school and it's
535
00:28:44.119 --> 00:28:47.640
a whole different story. And if I didn't get cast
536
00:28:47.920 --> 00:28:51.119
my sophomore year in college, then I could be in
537
00:28:51.279 --> 00:28:54.839
serious trouble in terms of even my parents understanding why
538
00:28:54.839 --> 00:28:58.960
I'm pursuing this. So I was so depressed first day
539
00:28:59.000 --> 00:29:02.640
of school. I ran upstairs into the Margo Jones Theater
540
00:29:02.960 --> 00:29:05.319
and it was pitch black, but they had what they
541
00:29:05.400 --> 00:29:08.920
call a ghost light on stage, the spotlight like center stage,
542
00:29:09.160 --> 00:29:11.359
and I ran up into the seats and just sat
543
00:29:11.480 --> 00:29:14.559
there and just was praying to whatever gods may be,
544
00:29:15.079 --> 00:29:18.640
with something happen to me on this stage that would
545
00:29:18.720 --> 00:29:22.200
change my life? Will this be the year where something happens?
546
00:29:22.279 --> 00:29:24.839
And then I hear this door open and shut, I
547
00:29:24.960 --> 00:29:28.200
hear footsteps coming. I'm thinking it's security to kick me out,
548
00:29:28.640 --> 00:29:32.240
And on stage comes this girl, little blonde girl. Didn't
549
00:29:32.279 --> 00:29:34.680
know who she was, and she walked out, and I
550
00:29:34.720 --> 00:29:36.319
thought I was going to say something. Then I realized
551
00:29:36.359 --> 00:29:39.160
she couldn't see me. I'm sitting in the dark in
552
00:29:39.279 --> 00:29:42.200
the back rows. She couldn't see me at all. She
553
00:29:42.359 --> 00:29:45.279
thought she was alone too, and out of nowhere in
554
00:29:45.400 --> 00:29:48.920
this spotlight. She puts out her arms like she's losing
555
00:29:49.000 --> 00:29:52.359
her balance, and then she begins to try to tight
556
00:29:52.559 --> 00:29:56.680
rope her way across the stage, oh losing her balance
557
00:29:56.720 --> 00:29:59.160
and then recovering it and going from one side of
558
00:29:59.240 --> 00:30:01.359
the stage to the other. And then she got to
559
00:30:01.440 --> 00:30:03.839
that side of the stage and bowed and ran out
560
00:30:03.839 --> 00:30:08.440
of the theater. And I was in love. I have
561
00:30:08.920 --> 00:30:11.599
maybe had love at first sight a couple times in
562
00:30:11.720 --> 00:30:15.079
my life, only that's it, and I've considered myself kind
563
00:30:15.079 --> 00:30:17.240
of a romantic guy. I fell in love with her,
564
00:30:17.279 --> 00:30:18.960
and I had to find out who that person was.
565
00:30:19.559 --> 00:30:22.559
And I said, look, she's short, blonde hair. She was
566
00:30:22.640 --> 00:30:24.480
wearing blue jeans, she had these kind of shoes, and
567
00:30:24.519 --> 00:30:26.440
people in the costume shop said oh, I think we
568
00:30:26.599 --> 00:30:29.279
saw her. She's a freshman. I think her name is Beth,
569
00:30:29.400 --> 00:30:33.440
and she's from Mississippi. So those were my clues. Beth
570
00:30:33.559 --> 00:30:36.559
from Mississippi. So I started asking people, do you know
571
00:30:36.599 --> 00:30:41.079
any Beth from Mississippi. Oh, she's in the scenery practic.
572
00:30:41.079 --> 00:30:44.640
Come after, So I went in and met Beth from
573
00:30:44.680 --> 00:30:48.680
Mississippi and asked if sometime, you know, if I could
574
00:30:48.880 --> 00:30:51.440
have dinner with her at the cafeteria. So I used
575
00:30:51.480 --> 00:30:54.119
to go with Beth in her roommate Louise, and we
576
00:30:54.200 --> 00:30:58.079
would go to the cafeteria, and I realized from the
577
00:30:58.160 --> 00:31:01.480
get go I was enormous in love with her. I
578
00:31:01.519 --> 00:31:04.279
had never felt such a thing before. And Beth turned
579
00:31:04.319 --> 00:31:06.200
out to be one of these people because she was
580
00:31:06.279 --> 00:31:08.519
little and cute and all this, they cast her as
581
00:31:09.000 --> 00:31:13.039
little children in plays, you know, because they had all
582
00:31:13.119 --> 00:31:16.200
the juniors and seniors in the advance acting students playing
583
00:31:16.240 --> 00:31:19.480
the leads, and then occasionally they'd have a professor playing
584
00:31:19.559 --> 00:31:22.039
the old people. But then they got people like Beth
585
00:31:22.079 --> 00:31:25.279
to play the children. So Beth really never got any
586
00:31:25.480 --> 00:31:29.200
roles at SMU that were worthy of her. And I
587
00:31:29.279 --> 00:31:31.799
think it was her senior year she signed up for
588
00:31:31.839 --> 00:31:36.119
a playwriting class and wrote a play called am I Blue.
589
00:31:36.680 --> 00:31:39.640
And she was talking about how terrible this play was.
590
00:31:40.079 --> 00:31:42.519
She was saying, it's going to be complete glottal vomit,
591
00:31:42.680 --> 00:31:44.839
I mean. And she had all of us, she had
592
00:31:44.960 --> 00:31:49.279
me in her roommate Louise Terry van de Voord, typing
593
00:31:49.359 --> 00:31:52.440
up the play for none of us saw the entire play.
594
00:31:52.759 --> 00:31:55.920
We're only typing up three pages. And then Louise takes over,
595
00:31:56.079 --> 00:31:59.039
so I see, you know, mister Spoon comes in and
596
00:32:00.079 --> 00:32:02.680
these weird names and all this stuff happening. None of
597
00:32:02.720 --> 00:32:04.680
us got sense of playing. Beth is saying, please don't
598
00:32:04.720 --> 00:32:06.960
read it. It's just terrible. It's just terrible. It's just terrible.
599
00:32:07.279 --> 00:32:10.440
So she took the play in and what happened was
600
00:32:11.279 --> 00:32:13.240
one of the plays that we were supposed to do
601
00:32:13.359 --> 00:32:17.200
at SMU. The playwright dropped out. The play got pulled,
602
00:32:17.240 --> 00:32:19.680
and so there was a slide open, and so the
603
00:32:19.759 --> 00:32:23.920
school said, why don't we do a play from within
604
00:32:24.079 --> 00:32:28.440
the workings of the playwriting class. And then they decided, well,
605
00:32:28.519 --> 00:32:31.480
let's open it up to the whole university. Anyone could
606
00:32:31.720 --> 00:32:35.759
enter a play. Teachers, faculty members could interplace too. So
607
00:32:36.160 --> 00:32:38.920
all these plays were submitted, and Beth said she was
608
00:32:39.000 --> 00:32:41.799
so humiliated she couldn't put her name on the play
609
00:32:41.880 --> 00:32:45.839
for the contest, so she put her name as Amy Peach.
610
00:32:46.480 --> 00:32:51.000
And we were all amazed, surprised, and horrified when the
611
00:32:51.119 --> 00:32:53.599
winner of the prize, which would get a full production
612
00:32:53.720 --> 00:32:58.480
at SMU, was Amy Peach ram I Blue. Everybody was sure, like,
613
00:32:58.640 --> 00:33:01.079
Kathy Bates was one of the students at our school.
614
00:33:01.200 --> 00:33:04.200
Then Kathy Bates she was a junior, then a senior.
615
00:33:04.319 --> 00:33:07.079
Everybody thought, well, Kathy Bates has to be Amy Peach.
616
00:33:07.480 --> 00:33:11.079
Powers Booth was a graduate student at our school. Then well,
617
00:33:11.160 --> 00:33:14.319
Powers Booth has to be Amy Peach. You know, anybody.
618
00:33:14.599 --> 00:33:17.400
It could have been any of the professors, anybody Amy Peach.
619
00:33:18.079 --> 00:33:21.400
But instead it was this little girl that everybody made
620
00:33:21.440 --> 00:33:24.680
fun of, that never got cast in place except to
621
00:33:24.720 --> 00:33:28.440
play children. It was Beth Henley. I'm going like, how
622
00:33:28.640 --> 00:33:32.240
did this happen? So Best's mother came out for opening,
623
00:33:32.759 --> 00:33:36.519
and I'm like terrified because now I'm seeing the reviewers
624
00:33:36.599 --> 00:33:39.359
for the Morning News and the Dallas Times Harold sitting
625
00:33:39.400 --> 00:33:41.720
in the audience with their paths. I thought, oh my god,
626
00:33:42.279 --> 00:33:44.079
you know she's going to get reviewed. This is going
627
00:33:44.160 --> 00:33:46.920
to be terrifying. And I still have not read the play.
628
00:33:47.440 --> 00:33:49.279
I'd read a few pages here and there. I still
629
00:33:49.319 --> 00:33:51.000
didn't know what this was. I just figured it was
630
00:33:51.000 --> 00:33:53.720
going to be some sort of terrible thing. The lights
631
00:33:53.799 --> 00:33:58.759
came down, came up on stage, and you could you
632
00:33:58.880 --> 00:34:02.920
could not hear a person breathe for the next hour
633
00:34:02.960 --> 00:34:09.559
and a half. It was hilarious. It was heartbreaking. It
634
00:34:09.880 --> 00:34:14.239
was fantastic. And I'm sitting in the audience. I'm saying, like,
635
00:34:14.559 --> 00:34:18.360
who's sitting next to me? Who is this person? Why
636
00:34:18.400 --> 00:34:21.639
didn't I read this play? This is like, not only
637
00:34:21.679 --> 00:34:24.480
a good play, this is fabulous. It was such a
638
00:34:24.559 --> 00:34:27.800
fabulous play that later in Best's career, Jonathan Demi said,
639
00:34:27.840 --> 00:34:30.199
you know that play you did in college, Am I Blue?
640
00:34:30.239 --> 00:34:33.440
I'd like to do a short film e that Jonathan directed,
641
00:34:33.679 --> 00:34:36.280
I think for PBS or something. Am I Blue? It's
642
00:34:36.480 --> 00:34:40.280
that good, you know. But still graduation came. By this point,
643
00:34:40.400 --> 00:34:43.519
I was a big star in Dallas. I was the
644
00:34:43.599 --> 00:34:47.119
big ingenue star at the Equity Theater. I was doing
645
00:34:47.440 --> 00:34:50.840
Algernon Importance of being earnest, all sorts of roles. I
646
00:34:51.000 --> 00:34:54.800
was cute and I had hair, and they were always
647
00:34:54.840 --> 00:34:57.480
giving me the leads and we got good reviews. And
648
00:34:57.599 --> 00:35:01.320
Beth was still Nowheeresville. So the only thing we could
649
00:35:01.400 --> 00:35:05.639
do together was being graduate school together. And so even
650
00:35:05.679 --> 00:35:09.400
though I was already a professional actor, now equity and
651
00:35:09.760 --> 00:35:12.079
I even did a SAG film and got my SAG
652
00:35:12.199 --> 00:35:17.519
card in what like nineteen seventy four, I think one
653
00:35:17.599 --> 00:35:21.000
hundred and twenty dollars a cost nineteen seventy four, I
654
00:35:21.079 --> 00:35:23.760
got my SAG and aftercard. Now I think you have
655
00:35:24.000 --> 00:35:27.320
to get a loan downpayment down from your house, put
656
00:35:27.360 --> 00:35:29.519
your house up to get a SAG card. I mean,
657
00:35:29.559 --> 00:35:33.119
it's so expensive now, one hundred twenty dollars. So I
658
00:35:33.280 --> 00:35:36.159
went back to graduate school to the University of Illinois
659
00:35:36.239 --> 00:35:39.039
to be with Beth. And one day we're walking across
660
00:35:39.159 --> 00:35:42.159
campus and Beth is saying, you know, I'm thinking maybe
661
00:35:42.199 --> 00:35:44.440
I shouldn't be an actor after all, Maybe I should
662
00:35:44.480 --> 00:35:46.920
be a writer. And I said, or you know, a
663
00:35:47.039 --> 00:35:49.519
dental hygienist. You know, one of us is going to
664
00:35:49.599 --> 00:35:51.920
have to have a job that pays money. I mean,
665
00:35:52.480 --> 00:35:54.400
I'm an actor, you know. But this is where I
666
00:35:54.440 --> 00:35:57.360
met ed k Martin at University of Illinois. If I
667
00:35:57.400 --> 00:36:00.840
hadn't gone there, I went and met him, so started
668
00:36:00.880 --> 00:36:05.360
writing again. We both escaped the University of Illinois after
669
00:36:05.480 --> 00:36:08.760
one year and realized graduate school is the last thing
670
00:36:08.880 --> 00:36:11.679
we needed in our lives. I came out to la
671
00:36:11.840 --> 00:36:14.000
and Beth came to join me, and she had a
672
00:36:14.079 --> 00:36:18.159
family tragedy. Her grandfather got lost in the woods, was
673
00:36:18.239 --> 00:36:21.639
assumed dead, and they had all sorts of bloodhounds and
674
00:36:21.960 --> 00:36:24.760
people searching the woods for him, and it turned out okay.
675
00:36:25.400 --> 00:36:27.880
They found him. He was okay, and he was joking.
676
00:36:28.440 --> 00:36:31.039
He ended up just worse for wear, being in the
677
00:36:31.079 --> 00:36:33.000
woods with nothing to eat for three or four days
678
00:36:33.039 --> 00:36:36.880
something like that. He survived. But it started Beth working
679
00:36:37.000 --> 00:36:40.320
on this idea of a play. And so in our
680
00:36:40.360 --> 00:36:43.039
little house where we were living together here, she starts
681
00:36:43.079 --> 00:36:47.239
writing and notes her everywhere. She has stacks of notes,
682
00:36:47.320 --> 00:36:50.159
and she's typing in the kitchen on the typewriter and
683
00:36:50.239 --> 00:36:53.239
the pages are getting higher and higher. And I said, well,
684
00:36:53.280 --> 00:36:57.239
what's your play called? She says, it's called Old Granddaddy's Dying.
685
00:36:57.800 --> 00:37:00.320
And I'm going with Beth, that didn't like the best
686
00:37:00.400 --> 00:37:02.760
title I've heard for a play. And she says, well,
687
00:37:02.800 --> 00:37:06.000
if I don't call it Old Granddaddy's Dying, maybe I'll
688
00:37:06.039 --> 00:37:10.320
call it the Three Mississippi Sisters because I love Chekhov
689
00:37:10.440 --> 00:37:13.519
so much. Then this play has to do with you know,
690
00:37:13.639 --> 00:37:16.320
it's kind of about our family and my sisters and
691
00:37:16.360 --> 00:37:19.559
three Mississippi Sisters. So she said, would you like to
692
00:37:19.639 --> 00:37:22.320
read it? So I said sure. So Beth hasn't finished yet,
693
00:37:22.400 --> 00:37:24.800
she's typing, and so I take the first pages and
694
00:37:24.920 --> 00:37:27.280
I start reading. And I'm sitting out on the front
695
00:37:27.320 --> 00:37:30.199
porch reading. She's typing in the kitchen. I'm hearing the
696
00:37:30.280 --> 00:37:34.719
typewriter going as good as am i blue was. This
697
00:37:35.039 --> 00:37:38.840
play was stratospheric. I'm going like, this isn't just a
698
00:37:38.880 --> 00:37:41.159
good play. This is and I'm reading. I said, please
699
00:37:41.679 --> 00:37:44.519
don't let me down because the first two acts are
700
00:37:44.719 --> 00:37:47.400
so good and I'm reading it and it was like
701
00:37:47.639 --> 00:37:50.280
the best sex you could ever imagine in your life,
702
00:37:50.760 --> 00:37:53.599
and that I'm reading this play and I need to
703
00:37:53.639 --> 00:37:56.280
get to the last page. Just as she's finishing it,
704
00:37:56.440 --> 00:37:59.000
being comes out of the typewriter. I read it. I
705
00:37:59.159 --> 00:38:02.079
burst into tears, and I'm going like, baby, this play
706
00:38:02.159 --> 00:38:04.599
is going to be on Broadway. This is the greatest
707
00:38:04.679 --> 00:38:07.559
play I've read. And I've read all those damn plays
708
00:38:07.599 --> 00:38:11.679
in Tony Graanmit's class. This is phenomenal play, but you
709
00:38:11.800 --> 00:38:13.639
cannot call it Old Granddaddy's Dying.
710
00:38:14.239 --> 00:38:14.880
You cannot.
711
00:38:15.360 --> 00:38:17.440
You have to have a better title for this play.
712
00:38:18.079 --> 00:38:21.320
And because the youngest sister and that the Beath character
713
00:38:21.440 --> 00:38:23.960
in that shot her husband because she didn't like the
714
00:38:24.000 --> 00:38:26.440
way he looked in it, I said, why don't you
715
00:38:26.559 --> 00:38:29.159
call the play? I know in the South they would
716
00:38:29.199 --> 00:38:32.000
call this a crime of passion, So why do you
717
00:38:32.119 --> 00:38:35.199
call it Crimes of Passion? So that was the name
718
00:38:35.280 --> 00:38:38.119
of the play now instead of Old Granddaddy's Dying. And
719
00:38:38.239 --> 00:38:41.559
we decided to do an equity waiver play of Crimes
720
00:38:41.599 --> 00:38:44.199
of Passion. All of our friends I was going to
721
00:38:44.239 --> 00:38:47.480
play Barnett, Lloyd Beth was going to play Babe. Our
722
00:38:47.559 --> 00:38:50.480
friend Sharon was going to play Lenny. Our other friend
723
00:38:50.559 --> 00:38:53.639
Sharon was going to play Meg. Her boyfriend Thurman was
724
00:38:53.679 --> 00:38:55.559
going to play Doc. We had all the thing and
725
00:38:55.639 --> 00:38:57.519
we had a theater. We're going to do it. And
726
00:38:57.719 --> 00:39:00.719
Sharon Ulrich, who was in the Last Pick Show, who
727
00:39:00.800 --> 00:39:02.719
was going to play Meg and was our friend out here,
728
00:39:03.079 --> 00:39:06.840
gave a copy of Crimes of Passion to her agent
729
00:39:07.639 --> 00:39:11.039
and Richard, her agent, put it in a stack of
730
00:39:11.320 --> 00:39:14.239
plays that he always saved for his boyfriend. When his
731
00:39:14.360 --> 00:39:17.719
boyfriend came out from New York and he took this
732
00:39:17.920 --> 00:39:21.079
stack of plays back to New York with him. It
733
00:39:21.199 --> 00:39:23.280
just turned out the Crimes of Passion was the top
734
00:39:23.360 --> 00:39:25.599
one on the stack. And we got a call from
735
00:39:25.639 --> 00:39:29.920
Gilbert Parker from Kennedy Airport and he says, excuse me,
736
00:39:30.079 --> 00:39:33.000
this is Gilbert Parker in New York. Is Beth Henley there?
737
00:39:33.519 --> 00:39:35.480
And I'm going, like, Beth, phone for you somebody in
738
00:39:35.519 --> 00:39:38.559
New York. Beth gets the phone call and I'll never
739
00:39:38.719 --> 00:39:43.960
forget her face. Gilbert Parker was the agent of Lillian Hellman,
740
00:39:44.480 --> 00:39:48.280
worked with Tennessee Williams, worked with Mark Medoff. He was
741
00:39:48.679 --> 00:39:53.840
like the number one literary agent for playwrights in New York.
742
00:39:54.360 --> 00:39:56.360
He said, I want to help you with your play.
743
00:39:56.880 --> 00:40:01.039
It's extraordinary, but you can't call Crimes of Passion because
744
00:40:01.159 --> 00:40:04.159
Ken Russell is making a movie now called Crimes of Passion.
745
00:40:04.199 --> 00:40:06.760
Even though you can't copyright a title. We don't want
746
00:40:06.800 --> 00:40:10.679
people to be confused. And so Beth told me, well,
747
00:40:10.679 --> 00:40:13.400
I'm gonna let Gilbert help me on the play. But
748
00:40:13.519 --> 00:40:15.840
what should we call the play now? I said, well,
749
00:40:15.840 --> 00:40:19.000
if you can't call crimes of passion, call crimes of
750
00:40:19.039 --> 00:40:21.679
the heart, so she called the Crimes of the Heart.
751
00:40:22.199 --> 00:40:25.679
Kathy Bates from SMU was now working at the Actor's
752
00:40:25.760 --> 00:40:29.719
Theater of Louisville, and Kathy Bates was cast as the
753
00:40:29.800 --> 00:40:33.039
first Lenny. Susan Kingsley was cast as the first Meg.
754
00:40:33.639 --> 00:40:36.639
And Beth called me from Louisville and said, you know,
755
00:40:36.800 --> 00:40:39.119
Kathy Bates is in the play. And I said, well,
756
00:40:39.159 --> 00:40:41.719
if you have Kathy Bates in your play, you're sick
757
00:40:41.719 --> 00:40:43.960
because she's the best actor I've ever seen in my life.
758
00:40:44.320 --> 00:40:46.719
You're set there. And she said, well, this other woman,
759
00:40:46.840 --> 00:40:52.679
Susan Kingsley is amazing. Susan Kingsley Kathy Bates two of
760
00:40:52.719 --> 00:40:55.119
the greatest actors that ever walked on the face of
761
00:40:55.159 --> 00:40:57.320
the earth, and they were both in Best's play. Beth
762
00:40:57.400 --> 00:41:01.639
won first prize Actors Theatre of Louisville Great American Play Contest.
763
00:41:02.039 --> 00:41:05.239
Then Gilbert took that to New York. The play was
764
00:41:05.320 --> 00:41:07.960
going to be done at the Manhattan Theater Club, where
765
00:41:08.000 --> 00:41:10.400
it won the Pulitzer Prize, and then it moved a
766
00:41:10.440 --> 00:41:14.119
Broadway where it ran for a couple of years, maybe more,
767
00:41:14.239 --> 00:41:16.639
And she got a big film deal for millions of dollars,
768
00:41:17.199 --> 00:41:22.760
and she was set phenomenal success story. It wasn't easy
769
00:41:23.159 --> 00:41:26.880
to be a girl from Mississippi and say I'm not
770
00:41:26.920 --> 00:41:29.400
going to be an actress. I guess, but maybe I'll
771
00:41:29.440 --> 00:41:32.599
be a playwright. I mean, who's a playwright. But she
772
00:41:32.800 --> 00:41:34.599
just turned out to be one of the best playwrights
773
00:41:34.679 --> 00:41:37.760
we've had in our generation. Just fabulous.
774
00:41:38.199 --> 00:41:42.280
That is amazing. That is a wonderful story. I'm assuming,
775
00:41:42.400 --> 00:41:44.440
by the way you're talking about here that you guys
776
00:41:44.440 --> 00:41:45.199
are still friends.
777
00:41:45.679 --> 00:41:51.599
Not at all, Not at all, not at all. No, seriously,
778
00:41:51.800 --> 00:41:52.320
not at all.
779
00:41:55.679 --> 00:41:58.400
Hey, street walkers, here's a word from our sponsors.
780
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781
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783
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and become meaningful. I also talk to experts on mental health, addiction,
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785
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not a grandfather, that's perfectly okay. Much of what we
786
00:42:24.000 --> 00:42:26.400
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787
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788
00:42:30.440 --> 00:42:33.119
welcome to come on in and join us. The Cool
789
00:42:33.159 --> 00:42:37.320
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as well as cool Dash Grandpa dot Us. That's cool
791
00:42:43.280 --> 00:42:47.320
Dash Grandpa dot Us. Come in, kick up your feet
792
00:42:47.880 --> 00:42:49.679
and join us as we figure out this role of
793
00:42:49.719 --> 00:42:53.360
grandfather together. Now, Steve, why don't you hit us again
794
00:42:53.440 --> 00:42:55.039
with another fascinating conversation.
795
00:42:56.800 --> 00:42:57.880
Let's get back into it.
796
00:43:01.400 --> 00:43:05.599
You know, we're all dealing with incomplete information in our lives.
797
00:43:06.199 --> 00:43:10.119
But somehow, at the time she won the Pulitzer, something
798
00:43:10.280 --> 00:43:14.199
began to deteriorate in our relationship. And I don't know
799
00:43:14.320 --> 00:43:16.960
how or what or why, but you know, we were
800
00:43:17.000 --> 00:43:19.719
together for several years after that. I think what she
801
00:43:19.800 --> 00:43:22.320
won the Pulitzer and something like you have to google it,
802
00:43:22.400 --> 00:43:24.840
but I think some like eighty nine or something, and
803
00:43:24.960 --> 00:43:28.599
I think we eventually parted ways in nineteen ninety five.
804
00:43:29.039 --> 00:43:31.360
Oh wow, No, Crimes of the Heart was earlier, right,
805
00:43:31.440 --> 00:43:33.760
It was a seventy eight, maybe eighty one or something.
806
00:43:33.840 --> 00:43:36.400
She won the Pulitzer. You have to google that. But
807
00:43:36.559 --> 00:43:39.639
I did miss Firecracker in New York in eighty four,
808
00:43:40.519 --> 00:43:43.360
and that was a huge success. I directed that with
809
00:43:43.480 --> 00:43:46.159
Holly Hunter and that ran for almost a year, and
810
00:43:46.239 --> 00:43:48.960
Beth got a movie deal from that as well, and
811
00:43:49.159 --> 00:43:51.559
so we were a part a lot. I was in
812
00:43:51.639 --> 00:43:53.840
New York working on her play. She was in La
813
00:43:54.000 --> 00:43:58.719
writing and distance makes a problem. This is something I've
814
00:43:58.760 --> 00:44:01.679
been on lately. How many apologies do you think you
815
00:44:01.800 --> 00:44:02.480
get in life?
816
00:44:02.920 --> 00:44:03.719
Get or give?
817
00:44:04.519 --> 00:44:09.039
Get? How many apologies do you think you get in life?
818
00:44:09.719 --> 00:44:14.480
Hmmm? It feels like not very many. It feels like
819
00:44:14.559 --> 00:44:15.400
they're pretty rare.
820
00:44:16.000 --> 00:44:19.880
Thing you win because we're all used to thinking like children,
821
00:44:20.320 --> 00:44:24.840
and like me as grandparents, we're always forgiving kids one
822
00:44:24.920 --> 00:44:27.039
hundred times a day for everything they do, you know,
823
00:44:27.280 --> 00:44:29.920
like dropping the spoon on the floor and scaring the
824
00:44:30.000 --> 00:44:32.280
cat and everything. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. You teach our
825
00:44:32.360 --> 00:44:35.119
kids to say I'm sorry, and they're sorry hundreds of
826
00:44:35.199 --> 00:44:37.920
times a day. And then we move slowly into adulthood,
827
00:44:38.519 --> 00:44:42.320
and sometimes we carry our childhood brain with us into
828
00:44:42.360 --> 00:44:47.599
adulthood forever, and we think like we have unlimited apologies.
829
00:44:48.280 --> 00:44:51.639
But once you're an adult, you're really an adult. You're
830
00:44:51.760 --> 00:44:55.159
lucky if you get one. But you're not used to this.
831
00:44:55.320 --> 00:44:58.159
You don't know it, but you realize if someone has
832
00:44:58.280 --> 00:45:02.400
done something big time to hurt you, or somebody does
833
00:45:02.480 --> 00:45:05.679
something that is non supportive in a huge, huge way
834
00:45:06.199 --> 00:45:08.239
that you always count on to support you. And then
835
00:45:08.280 --> 00:45:11.880
they apologize, oh I'm sorry. You go, yes, I forgive you,
836
00:45:12.199 --> 00:45:14.119
but then you realize in your heart, you really don't.
837
00:45:14.719 --> 00:45:18.159
You go like, okay, there's limitations here. I get it.
838
00:45:18.239 --> 00:45:21.440
There are limitations, and so you kind of bear up
839
00:45:21.559 --> 00:45:25.800
under it. And in business you don't get one. If
840
00:45:25.840 --> 00:45:30.280
you're working with someone and they cheat you at business,
841
00:45:30.480 --> 00:45:32.199
like they don't pay you when they say they should,
842
00:45:32.639 --> 00:45:35.599
no apology necessary, never going to work with you, never
843
00:45:35.679 --> 00:45:38.119
going to talk, not going to answer your emails again,
844
00:45:38.440 --> 00:45:41.480
you get no apology. And when you're in a love
845
00:45:41.599 --> 00:45:46.840
relationship and you hurt someone beyond repair, you know when
846
00:45:46.840 --> 00:45:49.599
you think, well, i'm sorry, you know I was this,
847
00:45:49.800 --> 00:45:52.039
I was that, Oh this was happening, that was happening,
848
00:45:52.400 --> 00:45:55.000
and you go, sure, sure, it's okay, it's okay, it's okay.
849
00:45:55.199 --> 00:45:58.719
Then you realize, oh, none of those things were really forgiven.
850
00:45:59.239 --> 00:46:02.719
You know, all those things begin limiting what you end
851
00:46:02.840 --> 00:46:06.440
up sharing with that person. And one day I just
852
00:46:06.920 --> 00:46:10.360
walked out of the house. I took whatever clothes I could,
853
00:46:10.480 --> 00:46:12.920
walked out of a house, rented a house down the street,
854
00:46:13.119 --> 00:46:16.320
and oh, this is an amusing story. So one of
855
00:46:16.360 --> 00:46:19.440
the first big jobs I did see, I put my
856
00:46:19.679 --> 00:46:23.079
career on hold. And there's no bitterness in this, because
857
00:46:23.440 --> 00:46:25.440
I wouldn't have had it any other way. You just
858
00:46:25.480 --> 00:46:28.000
want to have two lives, if you could. I put
859
00:46:28.079 --> 00:46:31.400
my acting career on hold to direct Beth's plays.
860
00:46:31.719 --> 00:46:31.920
You know.
861
00:46:32.079 --> 00:46:35.440
So I'm in New York. I can't act in anything,
862
00:46:35.599 --> 00:46:38.639
and I'm in New York for a year. Any agents
863
00:46:38.679 --> 00:46:42.079
I had were in Los Angeles. There's nothing for me
864
00:46:42.199 --> 00:46:45.440
to do, and so I'm just really working for Beth,
865
00:46:45.719 --> 00:46:47.800
you know, to make sure that her play comes off good.
866
00:46:48.480 --> 00:46:53.039
So when I decided, Okay, I can't do this anymore.
867
00:46:53.559 --> 00:46:56.800
I have to resuscitate my life, you know. I have
868
00:46:56.920 --> 00:46:58.639
to be more than just the guy who lets the
869
00:46:58.719 --> 00:47:01.760
gardener into the gate and here to occasionally do her play.
870
00:47:01.800 --> 00:47:03.960
I have to have my life. So I moved out.
871
00:47:04.159 --> 00:47:08.039
And the week I moved out was the week I
872
00:47:08.119 --> 00:47:12.599
got my first big audition for a big movie, Mississippi Burning,
873
00:47:13.039 --> 00:47:17.000
a great movie. I am so depressed because of me
874
00:47:17.159 --> 00:47:19.159
and Beth, but by the fact I moved out of
875
00:47:19.199 --> 00:47:22.480
the house, I can't even see straight. So I agree
876
00:47:22.519 --> 00:47:25.440
to do this audition to play the Ku Klux Klan
877
00:47:25.599 --> 00:47:28.320
guy for Alan Parker. So I go in to have
878
00:47:28.440 --> 00:47:31.920
my first audition. I don't even remember what I was thinking.
879
00:47:31.920 --> 00:47:33.800
I was looking out the window. There was a golf
880
00:47:33.920 --> 00:47:35.840
course out there, so I was just looking out there
881
00:47:35.880 --> 00:47:40.440
and I did the speech I love Mississippi, they hate Mississippi.
882
00:47:40.960 --> 00:47:43.280
And I just did the whole Ku Klux Clan speech
883
00:47:43.360 --> 00:47:45.519
just looking up me and Alan Parker was just filming me,
884
00:47:46.079 --> 00:47:49.639
and I left, didn't say anything to him, and then
885
00:47:49.679 --> 00:47:51.400
I get a call from my agent, Oh, you have
886
00:47:51.480 --> 00:47:54.079
a call back, went oh. So I go back a
887
00:47:54.159 --> 00:47:56.320
week later and I do the same thing kind of
888
00:47:56.360 --> 00:47:59.119
for Alan Parker. But now I'm kind of more aware
889
00:47:59.320 --> 00:48:01.920
of where I am and I do the same thing again.
890
00:48:02.079 --> 00:48:05.880
He films me again and I leave and I get
891
00:48:05.920 --> 00:48:12.199
a third callback. Now I'm scared. Now I'm nervous. Now
892
00:48:12.320 --> 00:48:15.079
it all comes into play, like what have I been doing?
893
00:48:15.360 --> 00:48:17.760
You know? Now I'm really here. And I went into
894
00:48:17.840 --> 00:48:21.239
Alan's office so nervous, and I sat down. You've got
895
00:48:21.320 --> 00:48:22.519
to be cool. You got to be cool. You got
896
00:48:22.599 --> 00:48:24.719
to do just do what you did before, you know,
897
00:48:24.880 --> 00:48:30.840
don't ruin it. And the secretary said mister Tobolowski. I
898
00:48:31.039 --> 00:48:33.719
just wanted you to know a mister Parker likes you
899
00:48:33.960 --> 00:48:37.000
very much. He says, a lot of people come in
900
00:48:37.119 --> 00:48:39.800
here and try to be scary as the ku Klux
901
00:48:39.840 --> 00:48:46.719
Klan leader, but you're scary naturally. Like I'm like, okay,
902
00:48:48.159 --> 00:48:51.679
she gave me heart, you know, she heartened me. So
903
00:48:52.039 --> 00:48:54.440
I went in and did a third audition for Alan Parker.
904
00:48:54.440 --> 00:48:58.719
I go home two weeks later. Fourth audition in Jackson,
905
00:48:58.800 --> 00:49:03.559
Mississippi's home town. So I'm thinking like, oh my god,
906
00:49:03.960 --> 00:49:06.159
you know, I really haven't seen Beth for the last
907
00:49:06.280 --> 00:49:08.880
maybe because of the breakup. She went back to Jackson.
908
00:49:09.360 --> 00:49:13.039
Oh my god, what if oh damn, what if she's there?
909
00:49:14.000 --> 00:49:17.960
So I fly out to Jackson, Mississippi. They put me
910
00:49:18.039 --> 00:49:20.719
up at the Holiday Inn, thank you very much. And
911
00:49:20.880 --> 00:49:25.000
I think should I stalk Beth? This would be a
912
00:49:25.039 --> 00:49:27.440
good chance to do the stalking thing because I know
913
00:49:27.559 --> 00:49:29.960
where she lives. I've been there many times. So I
914
00:49:30.039 --> 00:49:32.480
got a car and I drove to her house, parked
915
00:49:32.519 --> 00:49:36.039
across the street and like hid down and just looking
916
00:49:36.119 --> 00:49:39.039
over the window, like is anybody inside? Could I see
917
00:49:39.079 --> 00:49:41.360
your mother? Could I see your sisters? What's going on?
918
00:49:41.960 --> 00:49:44.800
You know it's Beth there with another guy. What's going on?
919
00:49:44.960 --> 00:49:47.480
You know then what's happened? And I thought, Steven, this
920
00:49:47.639 --> 00:49:50.480
is deranged. You have to audition tomorrow. This could be
921
00:49:50.519 --> 00:49:52.840
the end of the line. Let's go back. So I
922
00:49:52.920 --> 00:49:55.639
go back and go to sleep. One o'clock next day,
923
00:49:55.719 --> 00:49:59.119
I have my fourth audition with Alan Parker and I
924
00:49:59.280 --> 00:50:02.559
go to meet out and he says, Stephen, I had
925
00:50:02.639 --> 00:50:06.400
dinner with your ex last night. She's very amusing and
926
00:50:06.559 --> 00:50:10.280
I go, yes, Alan, she's very amusing. So tell me
927
00:50:10.400 --> 00:50:13.880
why did you two break up? And I said, Alan,
928
00:50:14.760 --> 00:50:18.000
we broke up because we had a great disagreement as
929
00:50:18.039 --> 00:50:23.360
to what constituted a joke. And Alan started laughing, very good,
930
00:50:24.199 --> 00:50:26.639
very good, very good. Why don't we do the scene?
931
00:50:27.280 --> 00:50:29.880
So I went over. I'm in a hotel room. He
932
00:50:29.960 --> 00:50:32.280
has a little light there, he has his camera. I
933
00:50:32.480 --> 00:50:35.920
do the same scene, looking right at Alan. I love missing.
934
00:50:35.960 --> 00:50:38.480
I do the same scene, go back to my room
935
00:50:38.519 --> 00:50:40.639
in the Holiday Inn, and as I'm coming down the hall,
936
00:50:40.719 --> 00:50:43.920
I hear my phone ringing it's my agent in Los
937
00:50:43.960 --> 00:50:48.119
Angeles telling me I have the part despite my four auditions.
938
00:50:48.639 --> 00:50:51.960
I think it was my answer about him going out
939
00:50:52.000 --> 00:50:55.840
with Beth and what constituted a joke. I think he
940
00:50:55.960 --> 00:50:59.920
appreciated that this is sliding into another thing that matter
941
00:51:00.199 --> 00:51:02.199
to me greatly. While I was in the movie, I
942
00:51:02.320 --> 00:51:04.719
was scheduled to be in the movie for three weeks
943
00:51:05.199 --> 00:51:08.039
to do my Ku Klux Klan stuff. But because one
944
00:51:08.079 --> 00:51:11.440
of the scenes was an outdoor scene and utilized two
945
00:51:11.519 --> 00:51:14.719
thousand extras, they asked if I could do a run
946
00:51:14.800 --> 00:51:17.480
of the picture contract, which means I would be there
947
00:51:17.519 --> 00:51:20.000
for three months. Now, I'm not making a ton of
948
00:51:20.039 --> 00:51:22.440
money each week, but that means i'd be making three
949
00:51:22.519 --> 00:51:25.519
months worth of money instead of three weeks. I said sure.
950
00:51:26.039 --> 00:51:27.760
My part didn't get any bigger, but I was just
951
00:51:27.880 --> 00:51:30.440
on hold the whole time, ready to go in case
952
00:51:30.559 --> 00:51:33.559
we ever did not have thunderstorms in Mississippi and Alabama,
953
00:51:33.639 --> 00:51:36.360
which was not likely at this time of year. So
954
00:51:36.920 --> 00:51:40.360
Alan Parker comes to my door and says, I know
955
00:51:40.440 --> 00:51:42.840
you're going to be waiting here quite a while. I
956
00:51:43.159 --> 00:51:46.840
hear you're interested in directing. Maybe you'd like to follow
957
00:51:46.880 --> 00:51:48.880
me around and see what I do. And I said,
958
00:51:49.039 --> 00:51:52.960
well sure, Alan, sure, great, thank you. So instead of
959
00:51:53.039 --> 00:51:56.960
hanging out at the hotel or playing pac Man at
960
00:51:57.039 --> 00:52:01.800
the local place, I followed Alan are around for each scene.
961
00:52:02.159 --> 00:52:04.760
There was no real exchange of anything. And then after
962
00:52:04.880 --> 00:52:06.840
a week or two Alan would turn to me and
963
00:52:07.000 --> 00:52:08.960
after he do it, he'd say, how would you do
964
00:52:09.079 --> 00:52:11.880
this scene? And I was like, oh, I would set
965
00:52:11.960 --> 00:52:15.239
up the camera here. Terrible idea, terrible idea. What you
966
00:52:15.320 --> 00:52:16.679
want to do is you want to start here and
967
00:52:16.719 --> 00:52:19.360
then you want to see you understand, Come on, let's
968
00:52:19.400 --> 00:52:21.519
do this. We're going to go to film editing. Take
969
00:52:21.519 --> 00:52:23.719
a look at this scene. Where would you cut? For
970
00:52:23.840 --> 00:52:29.679
the next six weeks, I had this time with Alan
971
00:52:29.800 --> 00:52:33.920
Parker where we went through every facet of filmmaking. He
972
00:52:34.039 --> 00:52:37.079
took me behind the scenes with everything, and it was
973
00:52:37.119 --> 00:52:39.760
before I ended up shooting my scenes, and he goes,
974
00:52:40.280 --> 00:52:43.599
now it's your time, so don't I'm changing the words
975
00:52:43.639 --> 00:52:47.119
a little bit. Don't don't mess it up. It's all
976
00:52:47.199 --> 00:52:50.559
on you. And he says, we're going to start filming you,
977
00:52:51.159 --> 00:52:53.079
and it was I got to say, it's like midnight
978
00:52:53.119 --> 00:52:55.880
because when you see any movie scene that takes place
979
00:52:55.920 --> 00:52:58.599
at night, it means they shot all night. You know,
980
00:52:58.679 --> 00:53:02.039
the shot when it's dark. So we have two thousand
981
00:53:02.119 --> 00:53:05.079
extras and then I find out that about fifteen hundred
982
00:53:05.079 --> 00:53:07.960
of them use their Ku Klux Klan cards as id
983
00:53:08.599 --> 00:53:12.599
to be extras. So Alan said, this is the situation
984
00:53:12.760 --> 00:53:15.719
we have. We have all these clansmen here. We're going
985
00:53:15.800 --> 00:53:17.199
to get the crowd and you and the crowd and
986
00:53:17.360 --> 00:53:19.840
just do the first part of the speech, and we'll
987
00:53:19.880 --> 00:53:22.039
do it from a lot of different angles. Because the
988
00:53:22.119 --> 00:53:25.119
first part of the speech was not very racist. Second
989
00:53:25.159 --> 00:53:28.239
part of my speech was very racist. So he said,
990
00:53:28.239 --> 00:53:30.079
we'll just do the first part of the speech and
991
00:53:30.159 --> 00:53:32.079
then we'll send everybody home, and then we'll put the
992
00:53:32.159 --> 00:53:35.000
cameras on stage and get you in close up at
993
00:53:35.039 --> 00:53:38.039
different things. Okay, I go sure. So we did about
994
00:53:38.360 --> 00:53:41.199
two hours worth of shooting of that, and then one
995
00:53:41.320 --> 00:53:44.360
time Alan does not say cut halfway through the speech.
996
00:53:44.440 --> 00:53:47.400
So it's my job to do the rest of the speech.
997
00:53:47.960 --> 00:53:50.079
So I go into the racist part of the speech
998
00:53:50.159 --> 00:53:54.599
and the audience starts screaming, they start cheering, they start
999
00:53:54.760 --> 00:53:57.079
stamping and doing this, and Alan runs up to the
1000
00:53:57.119 --> 00:54:00.280
stage afterwards it says, well, I didn't expect this, thought'd
1001
00:54:00.320 --> 00:54:04.119
be insulted. I gad, let's just keep shooting. So we
1002
00:54:04.519 --> 00:54:08.320
then used all of that great energy we had from
1003
00:54:08.400 --> 00:54:11.360
that crowd and shot that Ku Klux Clan scene in
1004
00:54:11.360 --> 00:54:15.000
Mississippi Burning, I finished my work, I went back, and
1005
00:54:15.440 --> 00:54:19.039
then I ended up doing a series of movies. Because
1006
00:54:19.800 --> 00:54:22.880
I was in Mississippi Burning. People didn't know what Mississippi
1007
00:54:22.920 --> 00:54:25.519
Burning was about, but they knew it was Alan Parker,
1008
00:54:25.880 --> 00:54:28.639
and Alan Parker was the sign of quality. And if
1009
00:54:28.679 --> 00:54:31.639
Alan Parker cast me, they wanted to cast me. So
1010
00:54:32.079 --> 00:54:36.079
I ended up doing all sorts of movies, comedies, dramas.
1011
00:54:36.320 --> 00:54:40.639
I played goofy characters that played villains because no one
1012
00:54:40.719 --> 00:54:43.440
knew what Mississippi Burning was going to be, what category
1013
00:54:43.440 --> 00:54:46.800
I'd fallen in, And I ended up doing groundhog Day.
1014
00:54:47.480 --> 00:54:51.559
Opening of Groundhog Day, I'm walking up with Andy. She
1015
00:54:51.719 --> 00:54:53.880
wanted me to be her chaperone, to make sure to
1016
00:54:54.000 --> 00:54:56.840
keep men away from her day McDonald and we're going
1017
00:54:56.920 --> 00:54:59.280
to the premiere and standing in front of the theater
1018
00:55:00.159 --> 00:55:03.880
Alan Parker and he said, well, you know, you did
1019
00:55:03.920 --> 00:55:06.079
a good job for me, but you better be good
1020
00:55:06.159 --> 00:55:10.239
in this. And I said, Alan, I'm such an idiot.
1021
00:55:11.039 --> 00:55:15.639
I am such an idiot. I had no idea what
1022
00:55:15.800 --> 00:55:18.440
you were giving me when you took me around and
1023
00:55:18.559 --> 00:55:21.280
showed me everything, all the aspects of film, the teaching
1024
00:55:21.400 --> 00:55:23.599
you gave me, I just thought Oh, this is what
1025
00:55:23.760 --> 00:55:26.679
directors do all the time. Come on, follow me around,
1026
00:55:26.719 --> 00:55:29.840
see what I do. I said, I owe you so much.
1027
00:55:30.360 --> 00:55:33.199
I learned so much from you. Thank you. And I
1028
00:55:33.280 --> 00:55:35.000
hugged him and he says, oh, stop it stop it
1029
00:55:35.320 --> 00:55:37.400
just be good in this and we'll be fine. And
1030
00:55:37.599 --> 00:55:41.239
so Alan Parker became one of the guiding lights in
1031
00:55:41.400 --> 00:55:45.320
my life to such an extent. My son, for some
1032
00:55:45.719 --> 00:55:48.280
misguided reason, decided he wanted to do a year of
1033
00:55:48.320 --> 00:55:51.679
school in Paris. God, I don't know what that was about.
1034
00:55:52.280 --> 00:55:55.480
But in Paris they don't have a lot of laundromats.
1035
00:55:56.079 --> 00:55:58.800
And so I asked Robert, is there anything you need
1036
00:55:59.000 --> 00:56:02.800
from us Annie and I while you're in Paris. He says, yeah,
1037
00:56:02.840 --> 00:56:06.360
do my laundry. So I'm taking Robert's laundry, trying to
1038
00:56:06.440 --> 00:56:10.559
find a laundromat in Paris and taking the Metro with
1039
00:56:10.719 --> 00:56:13.519
this huge stack of clothes. So I'm walking down some
1040
00:56:13.840 --> 00:56:17.719
random street toward a laundromat after thirty minutes on the Metro,
1041
00:56:18.199 --> 00:56:20.559
and a guy comes around the corner. He goes, excuse me,
1042
00:56:21.320 --> 00:56:25.480
you're Stephen Tobolowski and I go, yeah, you were in
1043
00:56:25.559 --> 00:56:29.400
Mississippi burning and I go yes, He says, you know,
1044
00:56:29.639 --> 00:56:32.880
Alan Parker is my close friend in England and we
1045
00:56:33.039 --> 00:56:35.840
were just talking about you the other day. Alan loves
1046
00:56:35.880 --> 00:56:38.599
you very much and sends his regards. If ever I
1047
00:56:38.719 --> 00:56:40.760
were to see you and I go, well, send my
1048
00:56:40.920 --> 00:56:44.119
love to Alan. And for me, it was one of
1049
00:56:44.199 --> 00:56:46.840
the great teachers I ever had in my life, was
1050
00:56:46.880 --> 00:56:47.519
Alan Parker.
1051
00:56:47.920 --> 00:56:49.840
That's amazing, you had your own mister Miagi.
1052
00:56:50.239 --> 00:56:51.199
Oh crazy.
1053
00:56:51.599 --> 00:56:53.360
He taught you all these things that you didn't even
1054
00:56:53.400 --> 00:56:55.400
know you were learning. That's that's amazing.
1055
00:56:55.679 --> 00:56:58.639
Didn't even know and from the greatest director of that age,
1056
00:56:59.239 --> 00:57:04.199
just that is, did realize it?
1057
00:57:04.760 --> 00:57:07.320
That is hilarious. This is gonna hurt my heart to
1058
00:57:07.400 --> 00:57:10.039
say this, but I think we're out of time here, buddy.
1059
00:57:11.079 --> 00:57:13.559
Well, but I got to say, you got my roots,
1060
00:57:14.159 --> 00:57:16.280
for sure, you got my roots. You wanted to do
1061
00:57:16.400 --> 00:57:18.480
the roots, and these are roots.
1062
00:57:19.239 --> 00:57:20.599
These are roots.
1063
00:57:21.039 --> 00:57:24.280
The women who affected my life were my mother Beth,
1064
00:57:24.920 --> 00:57:29.320
Joan Potter and my wife Anne. Those women have shaped me.
1065
00:57:29.960 --> 00:57:32.039
And you your maid from when you were a little kid.
1066
00:57:32.440 --> 00:57:37.840
Oh, Leonora hero. Lenora's a hero, Claude's a hero. But
1067
00:57:38.079 --> 00:57:42.119
in my life those people shape me very much and
1068
00:57:42.440 --> 00:57:44.719
appreciative to all of them. Even Joan Potter.
1069
00:57:45.119 --> 00:57:48.199
You learn a lot. You learned how to not treat people,
1070
00:57:48.480 --> 00:57:52.480
You learned how strong you really are and how determined
1071
00:57:52.559 --> 00:57:55.440
you can be. Oh, she's one of your greatest teachers.
1072
00:57:55.800 --> 00:57:57.559
She's one of those you know, what is it the
1073
00:57:57.599 --> 00:57:59.320
seven people you meet in heaven or whatever it is,
1074
00:57:59.440 --> 00:58:01.559
but those are the people on earth that helped you
1075
00:58:01.840 --> 00:58:06.199
to become who you are, and she's definitely one of them. Yep, Yeah, Steven,
1076
00:58:06.199 --> 00:58:08.840
I'm gonna ask you two things, yes, sir. Well, first,
1077
00:58:08.880 --> 00:58:10.960
I'm going to ask you to come back, because not
1078
00:58:11.079 --> 00:58:13.079
even the tip of the iceberg on you. Man, you
1079
00:58:13.360 --> 00:58:14.440
are an onion.
1080
00:58:15.719 --> 00:58:18.039
But you know, after this is all the TV stuff
1081
00:58:18.119 --> 00:58:21.079
and all that, which is highly amusing, but it's not
1082
00:58:21.239 --> 00:58:23.880
the formative stuff. The formative stuff you got here.
1083
00:58:24.159 --> 00:58:27.400
Sure, oh I got you everybody listening. We didn't talk
1084
00:58:27.440 --> 00:58:31.480
about it at all. But Stephen has his own podcast.
1085
00:58:32.039 --> 00:58:36.079
He did ninety nine episodes. It's called Tobolowski Files, and
1086
00:58:36.760 --> 00:58:40.119
I suggest that you start with Camember, which episode number
1087
00:58:40.119 --> 00:58:42.760
it is, but it's a Good Day in Auschwitz. Definitely
1088
00:58:42.880 --> 00:58:46.239
start with that episode, and then I think episode four
1089
00:58:46.639 --> 00:58:48.239
he talks about his mother.
1090
00:58:48.519 --> 00:58:49.239
The alchemist.
1091
00:58:49.360 --> 00:58:51.239
Yeah, those are the two I would start with for sure,
1092
00:58:51.239 --> 00:58:55.199
because they're amazing. Where can people find you on social media?
1093
00:58:55.519 --> 00:58:58.440
I think, as you mentioned, if you go to tobolowskifiles
1094
00:58:58.519 --> 00:59:01.559
dot com you'll get all the ninety and David Chen
1095
00:59:01.639 --> 00:59:04.079
and I we did it for free, so there's no paywall.
1096
00:59:04.599 --> 00:59:07.840
And they're true stories from my life, some about show
1097
00:59:07.920 --> 00:59:10.480
business and some just about love and heartbreak and all
1098
00:59:10.559 --> 00:59:13.840
sorts of things. Getting held hostage at gunpoint that's a
1099
00:59:13.920 --> 00:59:17.199
good one. My broken neck is another good one. You know.
1100
00:59:17.599 --> 00:59:20.599
I wrote these for my kids. So the tobolowskifiles dot
1101
00:59:20.719 --> 00:59:23.079
com that's a good place to go. I have my
1102
00:59:23.400 --> 00:59:26.760
two books, which is The Dangerous Animals Club and My
1103
00:59:26.840 --> 00:59:29.599
Adventures with God with Simon and Schuster. These are books
1104
00:59:29.639 --> 00:59:32.320
of stories I have which are kind of amusing. And
1105
00:59:32.480 --> 00:59:36.199
I think on Twitter, I'm at Tobolowski and I'm you know,
1106
00:59:36.639 --> 00:59:39.599
Steven Tobolowski on Facebook. That's pretty much where I am
1107
00:59:39.679 --> 00:59:40.320
on the internet.
1108
00:59:40.679 --> 00:59:45.760
Guys. I cannot recommend Tobolowski Files enough. Those stories are
1109
00:59:46.000 --> 00:59:48.960
amazing and they're told very well. Did you say his
1110
00:59:49.039 --> 00:59:49.880
name is David Chen?
1111
00:59:50.119 --> 00:59:50.960
Yeah, David Chen.
1112
00:59:51.320 --> 00:59:53.480
Yeah. Does he direct you at all when you're doing
1113
00:59:53.559 --> 00:59:54.119
these stories.
1114
00:59:54.679 --> 00:59:57.840
No, No, David's another big force in my life. He's
1115
00:59:57.920 --> 01:00:00.440
now living in Seattle, and he was just a student
1116
01:00:00.480 --> 01:00:02.719
at Harvard who called me up when I had my
1117
01:00:02.840 --> 01:00:05.400
broken neck and said, I've heard some of your stories.
1118
01:00:05.440 --> 01:00:07.840
Would you like to do stories on the internet. I'll
1119
01:00:08.039 --> 01:00:10.760
produce them and I'll introduce them, and then you do
1120
01:00:10.880 --> 01:00:14.679
what you do. And he's been He's just marvelous person,
1121
01:00:15.039 --> 01:00:16.360
great talented person.
1122
01:00:16.920 --> 01:00:18.679
It's my new favorite podcast.
1123
01:00:18.960 --> 01:00:19.880
Oh great, thank you.
1124
01:00:20.119 --> 01:00:24.239
It's phenomenal. Steven Tobylowski. Thank you for taking the time
1125
01:00:24.320 --> 01:00:26.719
out of your busy day and your hectic schedule to
1126
01:00:26.760 --> 01:00:27.960
hang out and let us get to know you a
1127
01:00:28.000 --> 01:00:29.440
little bit better on Fascination Street.
1128
01:00:29.480 --> 01:00:29.599
Man.
1129
01:00:29.639 --> 01:00:32.360
I really appreciate it. I had so much fun. You
1130
01:00:32.760 --> 01:00:34.679
are a remarkable storyteller, my friend.
1131
01:00:34.960 --> 01:00:37.000
Well, thank you, thank you, and we could do it
1132
01:00:37.079 --> 01:00:40.039
again and we'll get to Groundhog Day and other stories.
1133
01:00:40.119 --> 01:00:44.719
Yeah, basic instincts, Garfield, all kinds of things. All right, Well,
1134
01:00:44.800 --> 01:00:46.519
thank you so much, Mann, and you have a great
1135
01:00:46.559 --> 01:00:49.679
weekend and have fun babysitting again.
1136
01:00:51.239 --> 01:00:53.679
That's tonight. That's all boy.
1137
01:00:53.760 --> 01:00:56.679
I'm a bass with that. Thank you, Stephen, Thank you,
1138
01:00:57.400 --> 01:01:08.400
Bye bye bye bye. Opening music is the song Magnolia
1139
01:01:08.480 --> 01:01:11.719
from the two thousand and one album In Transigence use
1140
01:01:11.800 --> 01:01:17.079
with permission from Douglas Miles Clark. Closing music is from
1141
01:01:17.159 --> 01:01:21.199
the song say My Name off the twenty twenty one
1142
01:01:21.320 --> 01:01:27.440
album Underdog Anthems, used with permission from Jack's Allow. If
1143
01:01:27.480 --> 01:01:31.440
you like the show, tell a friend, Subscribe and rate
1144
01:01:31.519 --> 01:01:34.599
and review the show on iTunes and wherever else you
1145
01:01:34.760 --> 01:01:38.920
download podcasts. Don't forget to subscribe to my YouTube channel.
1146
01:01:39.559 --> 01:01:42.800
All the episodes are available there as well. Check me
1147
01:01:42.840 --> 01:01:47.320
out on vero at Fascination Street Pod and TikTok at
1148
01:01:47.400 --> 01:01:50.719
Fascination Street Pod. And again, thanks for listening.