WEBVTT
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Hey everybody and welcome to another edition of This Week in Clean Tech, your favorite 20-minute roundup of the biggest stories in climate and clean energy this week.
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Didn't even bother saying 15 minutes-ish.
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We're gonna run 20.
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It's just the way it is.
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We have to accept reality.
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We're recording this episode on Friday, October 2nd, 2026.
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We have a first-time guest in waiting.
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It's Gillian Goodman from Heat Map joining us shortly to talk about a big story this week.
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If you don't know my voice by now, I'm Factor, this content director, Paul Gurky, joined on the program once again by Clean Tech commentator Mike Casey of TigerCom.
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Mike, I missed you last week.
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Great to be reunited.
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You too, my man.
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Hey, I want you to know Jeremiah Karpowitz kept another 20 minutes, Senator Gherky, so.
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Well, that's just because he doesn't have as many interesting things to say as I do.
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Perhaps.
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But uh let's see if you can live up to his standard.
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I always appreciate Jeremiah filling in.
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Okay.
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All right, let's get to the let's get to the part of the show where we thank the viewers and listeners.
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You got any shout outs, any people in your circle this week that uh that ruffled your feathers?
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All 25 listeners, I love them.
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I love them.
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If you guys want to be a part of the show, just know you can do that.
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We got an email account just for this.
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It's uh TWIC Twick at tigercom with twoms.us.
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You can send us story suggestions, your two cents, whatever.
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They go right to our inboxes, and we can get you right on the show that way.
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Uh, if you're unfamiliar with the format, we do the five biggest stories in climate and clean energy as decided by uh a council of uh folks that will remain unseen.
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Just like the unseen council has chosen the five stories.
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We start with number one.
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What is it, Mike?
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So number one is uh Kanoa Lohmann from Washington Monthly.
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Why won't the clean energy industry play dirty?
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I'm gonna note, I'm taking strong issue with the last word in that headline, but Paul, you first, and then I'll have things to say.
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I liked this actually, and I liked the way that they did the headline.
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Uh, I'm in favor of what they chose to do here with Washington Monthly.
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So we talk on the show uh from time to time about the Invest in Tomorrow Coalition Pack.
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It's the super PAC organized by solar investors and executives that went after Chip Roy.
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Uh you you know what?
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This is the Mike Casey thing.
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I'll let you get into all of that, but just know that the coalition spent about$5 million through August, most of it uh against three candidates planning to spend$20 to$30 million by the end of the midterms.
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Um, Lohman questions in the piece whether that's enough to really put fear into Washington, because on the other side of the ledger, you might know that the fossil fuel industry is not shy about spending.
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Uh, they dropped more than$200 million in the 2024 elections.
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Uh crypto has spent some$200 million so far this cycle.
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AI linked uh, you know,$200 million linked to AI at least.
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So most of the invest in tomorrow coalition's money isn't even coming from clean energy.
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The vast majority of it came from crypto billionaire Chris Larson.
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The group only had 23 unique donors through August.
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Mike Casey, your thoughts.
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I have many.
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Uh first, um to be clear, I uh support this effort uh professionally, and Tom Matsy, who runs it, is a uh is a brilliant friend of mine.
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So I've I kind of have good news and I have bad news.
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The first is I'm gonna quote uh Representative Eric Burleson, who said who described investment tomorrow as quote, almost like a prowling lion looking for the weakest part of the flock, end quote.
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So have they instilled fear?
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Yes, they have.
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And they caught some uh overconfident, clean energy hating uh politicians napping, six of them.
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They're six for six right now.
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But here's the big thing.
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The I think the headline, though it describes the rough and tumble of politics with sort of um a a uh the right the view of the righteous, the fact of the matter is policy is downstream of politics.
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And if you don't play in politics in a as a disruptor who's disrupting within a big industry, you are being a fool.
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And so if you are a uh climate tech CEO, whether we work for you or not, on the client side, and you're sitting this out so far, I am asking you, I am pushing you to get off the bench and get into the game.
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Because if you don't, then who?
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If not now, when?
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This is the way things work, and we need to stop as a sector hoping somebody rides over the horizon to our rescue, and we can't dwell comfortably in the hot tub called everything will work out fine because we're lowest cost.
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No, it won't.
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That's not the way it works.
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Tall story number two.
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Well said, Mike Casey.
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Second story this week from Brad Plumer and Maxine Joslow from the New York Times.
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It's titled Trump Sharply Scales Back Fuel Economy Rules for New Cars.
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Tell me about it, Casey.
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Okay, so here there's an there's an old uh Zen Coan, right?
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A saying that's love some Zen Coins, hit me.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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If the Trump administration were to corner the market on stupid, would it's FTC need to bring an antitrust suit?
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That is the question.
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Meditate on that.
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Because with gas going above five dollars a gallon because it's in shortage, the last thing you'd want to do to cripple the U.S.
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auto industry providing electric vehicle choice or our mileage conservative choices would be to get rid of these fuel efficiency standards.
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It is the of all the dumb things that we have covered these dummies doing over the last two and a half years, this is about as dumb as it gets.
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Like it's just cornering the market on stupid.
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And we could give all the facts and the figures, but to simple math, people are paying more the pump because there's a shortage of gasoline.
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Why would you make us less efficient when it comes to gasoline right now?
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It is the absolute dumbest thing we could do, in my humble opinion.
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Paul.
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Yeah, we don't need to bring the economists into this, um, but but the economists are involved, disputing the administration's savings numbers.
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Uh, you may have seen a recent paper come out of the journal Science that found major inconsistencies in the calculations used by the administration.
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MIT's Chris Nittle said that uh when you do the analysis correctly, revoking these standards does not save consumers money.
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And it's for the reasons that Mr.
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Casey alluded to here.
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It's simple math.
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Um, gas prices are up around$4.50 a gallon on a national average, depending on where you live.
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You might be paying even more than that, up more than 40% from this time last year.
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And this rollback, it could push U.S.
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car makers toward bigger pickups and SUVs, which are more profitable for them.
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We've seen that, but EV sales are also growing fast in the rest of the world.
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Less than 10% of new cars in the U.S.
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uh sold last year were electric, in large part, I believe, because of the uh revocation of that$7,500 rebate that the feds were offering for EVs.
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I think if that was out there now, Mike, coupled with the price of gas, we'd be selling a lot more EVs in the U.S.
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But that's just this one humble guy's opinion.
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Hit us with story three.
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Yeah, I somewhere there is probably a lobbyist for Chinese automaker BYD that was working this into reality.
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So our third story, uh Michael J.
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Korn from the Washington Post, fix it or trash it, how to decide how long to keep your car in home appliances.
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We need to just note the headline, doesn't really get to the angle that caught our attention.
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Paul, I thought this was a very important story and it relates to the one we just got done discussing.
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You first.
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Yeah, someone who drove a Dodge Neon from the time I turned 15 until I was like almost 30 years old and had put a couple hundred thousand miles on it and replaced it with a junker engine.
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I I understand the economics of this debate very well.
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Sometimes a set of new tires is worth more than the entire value of your vehicle.
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Extrapolate that into our sphere for the purpose of this article.
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A peer-reviewed study published in Science in August found that if you bought a new gas car tomorrow, trashed it, and then drove a brand new EV for a decade, you would still do less harm to the climate than if you just kept driving that car for 10 years.
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Think about that for a second.
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A UC Santa Cruz professor and his colleague ran thousands of data points on lifetime vehicle pollution to come up with this.
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And EVs came out ahead in 92% of all scenarios, even if you scrap a brand new gas car.
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It all comes down to efficiency.
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Gas engines waste about 70% of their energy, mostly as heat.
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Uh in an EV, about 90% of electricity goes toward moving the car.
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A lot of simple math on the program, Mike.
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Your thoughts.
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Yeah, and I'm gonna say this as someone who drove his Honda Element for 21 years at 229,000 miles, literally till the wheel fell off on the highway.
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So I want to be clear, I got a lot of people.
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I sold that neon for$300 cash in a parking lot to someone, by the way.
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I just gave them the keys.
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I didn't even have a title for it.
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I they probably didn't do anything good with it.
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Anyway, sorry.
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So, but here's the big thing about this story.
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It it covers in a backdoor way the science that has now shown that EVs are so much more efficient from a fuel standpoint, from an energy standpoint, from a climate standpoint, that the inflection point comes out to four to 7,000 miles a year.
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This is less than half of what the average driver puts on a car.
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The EV lead's only growing because the grid's getting cleaner, batteries take less fossil fuels to build, and EV efficiency keeps rising.
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So the same logic does, it turns out, apply to the house.
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Most of the carbon pollution from phones and tablets comes from making them.
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So repairing them makes sense, but big appliances burn most of their energy in use.
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Today's closed washers have 50% more capacity and use 70% less energy than in 1990.
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Love this story.
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Thought it was a killer one.
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Uh, Paul, what's our fourth one?
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Yeah, that's a good one.
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Although I want to note that I think my washer uses a little more energy when it's walking across the floor when we overfill it, but that's neither here nor there.
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Story four this week from Julia Amon at Bloomberg titled Plug Power Inc.'s Electrolyzer Deal for Denmark Jet Fuel Project.
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Tell me about it.
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Yeah, Plug Power.
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They have been active uh for as long as I have been in this space.
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Uh hat tip to these guys.
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They've agreed to supply 280 megawatts of electrizer electrolyzers for Arcadia e-Fuels project Endor.
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It's a facility plan for Denmark's South Coast that aims to produce sustainable jet fuel.
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No, I'm pretty sure Endor is the moon planet with the Ewoks.
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I think you you got that wrong.
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That's a Star Wars reference.
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Anyway, sorry.
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All right, we're gonna have to take it up with Claire Queer in there, but the plant would tap renewable grid power to make hydrogen for jet fuel.
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Electrolyzers use electricity to split water into hydrogen and oxygen.
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The deal also sets plug up to be a preferred supplier for four future Arcadia projects in Europe and the Americas.
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And plug shares rose as much as 4.3 in New York trading.
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It follows three years of joint engineering work and deliveries will begin once Arcadia's project issues a notice to proceed.
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I love this, and I'll tell you I think plug power stock is worth an investment because if fossil fuel supplies keep being tight, um the aviation sector.
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No, you can't so you can't tell me that because I was one of the suckers who bought the top of Plug and lost my pants.
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And I'm not a smart investor, and so that was alongside of a bunch of other dumb investments.
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But I believed in what they were doing several years ago, and I I went along for the ride, and now I've got a big red number in my Robin Hood account.
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So don't tell me to buy plug stock.
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I believed in that company.
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Uh yeah, what I'm holding now is probably worth uh a couple bucks.
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I'll buy you a pumpkin spice latte with what I've got in plug now.
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But anyway, not to disparage the company because I truly believe in what they're doing, and I think this is very cool.
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Europe needs projects like this too, Mike.
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Starting in 2030, uh, more than 1% of jet fuel supplied at EU airports has got to be synthetic.
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It's got to be made from green hydrogen, carbon capture, uh captured carbon, rather.
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Uh, and that goes up to 35% by 2050.
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But nobody, as you know, in the space is making any of that stuff yet.
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And Plug was one of the, you know, the forebearers in this space.
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Um the sustainable aviation fuel airlines reported buying in 2025 was synthetic.
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Europe has roughly 60 of those projects in development.
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Not a single one has reached a final investment decision.
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And Endor, the moon planet we mentioned, is getting closer than most.
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It signed an EU innovation fund funding agreement in March.
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Last week, Uniper agreed to buy 40,000 metric tons a year for more than 10 years.
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Pretty big agreement there.
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Uh, about half of what the plant plans to make.
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All right, Mike, let's bring our guests in.
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Story number five.
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Number five took five people at a heat map news to compile.
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It's a big story.
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Robinson Meyer, Emily Pontecarvo, Jail Holesman, all of them are This Week in Clean Tech Veterans, Matthew Zeitland and Gillian Goodman.
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But we look past our three formers to say, who's the star of that show?
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It is clearly Gillian Goodman.
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So we're like, Gillian Goodman is coming on the show.
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Robinson who?
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Don't even know that guy.
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All right.
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Um, the Senate's big by the Senate's big bipartisan permitting deal explained.
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Hey, Gillian, great to have you here.
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If people have not read this very impressive piece of reporting, um, which we want them to do, can you give us the big takeaway from this project that you and your four colleagues have put together?
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Because it's I think this is a really good story.
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And good Lord knows we have covered the many, many flirtations of the Senate with a a permitting deal before.
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So tell us what's new and how likely it is to pass.
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I mean, that's the 64, 417-page question here is how likely it is to pass.
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We've seen a lot of uh reactions to it in the past few days.
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Um, some sort of Jared Huffman got up and said, you know, that he he didn't like it.
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And the green groups are now organizing to say we don't like it, we don't want it to pass.
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Um, however, a a lot of the sort of more abundance-oriented and more um we must build oriented groups are very behind this bill.
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And so the big takeaway essentially is that it's a big change.
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I think it cannot be understated how big a revolution in permitting in the US this would be.
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Um and it undertakes that in like across an enormous number of federal functions in terms of how we interpret key environmental statutes, how we plan and deploy energy, um, even how we organize the process of applying for and processing permits.
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So it would it's a really huge bill with a lot to digest.
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We're still digesting it.
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We published uh another story yesterday.
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We've got a couple more in the pipeline for today, and we're even talking about more next week.
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So there's there's really a lot to dig into.
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So I was taken aback a little by the notion that some clean energy folks might be against this bill because based on my understanding of it, and keep in mind, this just came out a few days ago, and so we're all still digesting, as you mentioned, Jillian.
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But my take on it is that it read as a pretty clean energy bill, and particularly so considering what we've been looking at for the last two years in the Trump administration, where a lot of speed to power initiatives have taken the front seat while the carbon reduction initiatives have had to get comfortable in the back.
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I think there are a few reasons why.
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And, you know, to be clear, I am on no side here.
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We're just sort of arbitrating everyone's positions.
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So, on the one hand, there are still some sticking points with the bill.
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We're not sure exactly where they are, but from what we've heard, we understand they're with some of the wind provisions and making sure that the administration um cannot simply uh arbitrarily stop wind projects.
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Now, the the bill includes measures to basically define what a pattern of arbitrary treatment would be and makes that illegal.
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However, there are ways that the administration, we've seen the administration get around existing law in so many ways that I think they're still trying to plug a few holes there.
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There are a few other reasons why green groups and clean energy groups, largely in favor of this bill, to the best of my understanding.
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It's environmental groups who have a lot of big objections that fall into a couple of different buckets.
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One are that a lot of the tech neutral uh provisions apply to oil and gas as well as renewable and clean energy.
00:16:34.480 --> 00:16:53.039
So it would facilitate, you know, in theory, and I'm I'm so hesitant to say anything definitive about this bill because again, it's so huge and there's still so much analysis to do, but it would not stop development of oil and gas, which is a huge, like, you know, clean energy and sustainability conservation group uh priority.
00:16:53.360 --> 00:17:03.360
It also would severely limit the ability of groups like Earth Justice, the Sierra Club to sue to stop projects under development.
00:17:03.440 --> 00:17:10.319
And these are the things that come under the National Environmental Policy Act, the National Historic Preservation Act, the Endangered Species Act.
00:17:10.480 --> 00:17:14.079
And that's something we're actively digging into right now and trying to understand.
00:17:14.240 --> 00:17:18.559
But you know, what I can say right now is that those effects appear to be significant.
00:17:18.799 --> 00:17:20.559
Jillian, I'm gonna put you on the spot.
00:17:20.799 --> 00:17:25.440
If you were a betting reporter, which I know you are not, what are these?
00:17:25.839 --> 00:17:26.640
I'm a betting reporter.
00:17:26.720 --> 00:17:27.359
Can I bet on this?
00:17:27.519 --> 00:17:28.319
Wait, what is it?
00:17:28.480 --> 00:17:30.960
You bet you bet poorly on plug power, Penny.
00:17:31.519 --> 00:17:32.559
Yeah, I bet poorly often.
00:17:32.640 --> 00:17:34.480
You should go against the sign of whatever you're better.
00:17:34.720 --> 00:17:35.440
Yeah, exactly.
00:17:35.920 --> 00:17:37.759
You should go against the public here.
00:17:38.240 --> 00:17:41.359
What's being said about the odds of passage?
00:17:41.839 --> 00:17:46.480
I think it's still too early to say, you know, I'm I'm fairly conservative in where I put my money.
00:17:46.559 --> 00:17:53.279
I think it's still too early to say, um, you know, this it this does seem to have but I mean this does have bipartisan support in the Senate.
00:17:53.440 --> 00:18:02.799
That's that it would need to clear the 60-vote filibuster threshold in the Senate, which means that it would need to keep all the Democrats on, or at least a significant number of Democrats on side.
00:18:03.119 --> 00:18:10.240
As far as the House, it depends on Mike Johnson's willingness to bring it to a vote, and that's never a guarantee.
00:18:10.480 --> 00:18:13.359
So there's still a lot up in the air.
00:18:13.519 --> 00:18:16.319
Um, and we'll see how the next five weeks unfold.
00:18:17.359 --> 00:18:22.960
It's not they're not gonna bring it to a vote until after the midterm elections, which is another uh important dynamic here.
00:18:23.440 --> 00:18:25.039
Paul, do you want to take a last question?
00:18:25.119 --> 00:18:28.319
Because we are heading toward a sub-20-minute episode.
00:18:28.720 --> 00:18:33.920
Jillian, I just gotta ask, how many times did you have to resist making the Baja Blast joke?
00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:35.839
And how many times did you actually make it?
00:18:36.000 --> 00:18:45.599
Because it's not every day that we get one of those clunky legislative acronyms and get to spin it into a delicious citrusy lemon lime drink reference, you know?
00:18:45.920 --> 00:18:54.240
Let's say we had some fun coming up with headlines for this story, and you may yet see a Baja Blast joke in a story uh very, very soon.
00:18:54.640 --> 00:19:05.839
I was trying to find a different way out, like banjo and Kazooie, like Baja and Kazooie, but the retro N64 title probably only hits a small subset of the audience that would that would even begin to understand what I'm getting at there.
00:19:05.920 --> 00:19:07.359
So we go back to the drawing board.
00:19:07.680 --> 00:19:10.960
Jillian, most important question is it data centers or data centers?
00:19:11.119 --> 00:19:11.519
Oh, geez.
00:19:11.759 --> 00:19:12.160
He's right.
00:19:12.319 --> 00:19:13.039
Come on.
00:19:13.680 --> 00:19:15.680
I gotta go with data and two words.
00:19:16.000 --> 00:19:17.759
That's that's heat map house style.
00:19:17.920 --> 00:19:18.240
Two words.
00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:18.799
Team K.
00:19:19.759 --> 00:19:23.119
Heatmap has a house style and it's data, not data.
00:19:23.359 --> 00:19:26.240
Well, I mean pronunciation is up to you, but it's two words.
00:19:26.480 --> 00:19:26.799
Oh, okay.
00:19:27.200 --> 00:19:28.880
That is your heart out.
00:19:28.960 --> 00:19:33.519
It's you and Clara Hudson alone on an island in the mispronunciation.
00:19:33.680 --> 00:19:36.240
I'm just saying, but hey, we got to go to our clean tech of the week.
00:19:36.400 --> 00:19:36.720
Let's do it.
00:19:36.799 --> 00:19:39.279
Clean tech of the week, drum roll, please.
00:19:39.440 --> 00:19:41.920
It is Gillian Goodman for No, I'm just kidding.
00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:42.480
Sorry, Gillian.
00:19:42.559 --> 00:19:44.319
Maybe one day you'll be Clean Techer of the Week.
00:19:44.480 --> 00:19:47.119
It's James Warden, founder of Warden Marine.
00:19:47.200 --> 00:19:48.160
She got excited for a second.
00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:49.039
I shouldn't have done that.
00:19:49.279 --> 00:19:52.799
James has been building solar-powered vehicles since the 1980s.
00:19:52.880 --> 00:19:53.680
Wow, that's wild.
00:19:53.759 --> 00:19:56.400
He started with a wood and cardboard solar go-kart.
00:19:56.559 --> 00:19:58.720
It won the Massachusetts State Science Fair.
00:19:58.880 --> 00:19:59.839
You still got it, I'm sure.
00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:05.039
It went on to help start MIT's solar electric vehicle team, co-founded Selectrio with his late wife.
00:20:05.279 --> 00:20:07.119
Now he's taking that vision to the water.
00:20:07.200 --> 00:20:16.000
His startup's true solar 20 boat, uh, named Anita after that ex-wife in her honor, can run all day on six solar panels at about eight miles per hour.
00:20:16.079 --> 00:20:18.720
A bigger version is being built for ferries and river tours.
00:20:18.880 --> 00:20:20.079
Sounds like wild stuff.
00:20:20.240 --> 00:20:23.599
James, uh, you sound like one of those legendary tinkerers.
00:20:23.680 --> 00:20:25.440
You deserve the Clean Tech or the Week title.
00:20:25.519 --> 00:20:26.000
Congratulations.
00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:26.640
Absolutely.
00:20:26.799 --> 00:20:27.279
Good.
00:20:27.599 --> 00:20:34.160
Shout out to a wonderful producer, Brian Mendez, and Claire Quirin and Alex Peterson for helping us gather these stories.
00:20:34.480 --> 00:20:37.599
You just named the invisible invisible panel of story selectors.
00:20:37.680 --> 00:20:38.640
I thought we were going to keep them.
00:20:38.720 --> 00:20:40.079
Oh no, we name them every show.
00:20:40.160 --> 00:20:41.200
Um, I tease.
00:20:41.680 --> 00:20:44.960
Thank you, the listener, for joining us for another round of This Week in Clean Tech.
00:20:45.039 --> 00:20:47.200
And one last shout out to Gillian Goodman from Beat Map.
00:20:47.359 --> 00:20:49.119
Please go check out the piece on the permitting bill.
00:20:49.200 --> 00:20:51.359
I think it's the biggest story in our space in quite some time.
00:20:51.519 --> 00:20:56.799
You should learn all about it before it even comes up for a boat in the lame deck uh session, if and when it does.
00:20:57.039 --> 00:21:02.240
If you enjoyed the show today, please subscribe, give a little feedback, share a story suggestion to the email we mentioned at the top.
00:21:02.319 --> 00:21:05.200
And don't forget, you can check out every article we talk about on this program.
00:21:05.279 --> 00:21:10.319
Just click the links in the episode description as well as in the post where this thing lives on factorthis.com.
00:21:10.480 --> 00:21:12.319
Until next time, be good, people.
00:00:13.199 --> 00:00:20.879
Hey everybody and welcome to another edition of This Week in Clean Tech, your favorite 20-minute roundup of the biggest stories in climate and clean energy this week.
00:00:20.960 --> 00:00:22.800
Didn't even bother saying 15 minutes-ish.
00:00:22.960 --> 00:00:23.760
We're gonna run 20.
00:00:23.839 --> 00:00:24.559
It's just the way it is.
00:00:24.719 --> 00:00:25.839
We have to accept reality.
00:00:25.920 --> 00:00:29.920
We're recording this episode on Friday, October 2nd, 2026.
00:00:30.079 --> 00:00:32.000
We have a first-time guest in waiting.
00:00:32.079 --> 00:00:36.320
It's Gillian Goodman from Heat Map joining us shortly to talk about a big story this week.
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If you don't know my voice by now, I'm Factor, this content director, Paul Gurky, joined on the program once again by Clean Tech commentator Mike Casey of TigerCom.
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Mike, I missed you last week.
00:00:45.439 --> 00:00:46.960
Great to be reunited.
00:00:47.280 --> 00:00:48.320
You too, my man.
00:00:48.399 --> 00:00:52.399
Hey, I want you to know Jeremiah Karpowitz kept another 20 minutes, Senator Gherky, so.
00:00:52.960 --> 00:00:56.560
Well, that's just because he doesn't have as many interesting things to say as I do.
00:00:56.880 --> 00:00:57.679
Perhaps.
00:00:57.920 --> 00:01:00.399
But uh let's see if you can live up to his standard.
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I always appreciate Jeremiah filling in.
00:01:02.960 --> 00:01:03.200
Okay.
00:01:04.000 --> 00:01:07.120
All right, let's get to the let's get to the part of the show where we thank the viewers and listeners.
00:01:07.280 --> 00:01:11.439
You got any shout outs, any people in your circle this week that uh that ruffled your feathers?
00:01:11.760 --> 00:01:14.480
All 25 listeners, I love them.
00:01:14.879 --> 00:01:15.359
I love them.
00:01:15.680 --> 00:01:18.159
If you guys want to be a part of the show, just know you can do that.
00:01:18.319 --> 00:01:19.840
We got an email account just for this.
00:01:19.920 --> 00:01:23.599
It's uh TWIC Twick at tigercom with twoms.us.
00:01:23.920 --> 00:01:26.719
You can send us story suggestions, your two cents, whatever.
00:01:26.879 --> 00:01:29.840
They go right to our inboxes, and we can get you right on the show that way.
00:01:29.920 --> 00:01:38.560
Uh, if you're unfamiliar with the format, we do the five biggest stories in climate and clean energy as decided by uh a council of uh folks that will remain unseen.
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Just like the unseen council has chosen the five stories.
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We start with number one.
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What is it, Mike?
00:01:44.560 --> 00:01:48.879
So number one is uh Kanoa Lohmann from Washington Monthly.
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Why won't the clean energy industry play dirty?
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I'm gonna note, I'm taking strong issue with the last word in that headline, but Paul, you first, and then I'll have things to say.
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I liked this actually, and I liked the way that they did the headline.
00:02:01.359 --> 00:02:04.719
Uh, I'm in favor of what they chose to do here with Washington Monthly.
00:02:04.879 --> 00:02:09.199
So we talk on the show uh from time to time about the Invest in Tomorrow Coalition Pack.
00:02:09.360 --> 00:02:13.759
It's the super PAC organized by solar investors and executives that went after Chip Roy.
00:02:13.919 --> 00:02:15.599
Uh you you know what?
00:02:15.759 --> 00:02:17.120
This is the Mike Casey thing.
00:02:17.199 --> 00:02:28.080
I'll let you get into all of that, but just know that the coalition spent about$5 million through August, most of it uh against three candidates planning to spend$20 to$30 million by the end of the midterms.
00:02:28.240 --> 00:02:37.360
Um, Lohman questions in the piece whether that's enough to really put fear into Washington, because on the other side of the ledger, you might know that the fossil fuel industry is not shy about spending.
00:02:37.439 --> 00:02:42.240
Uh, they dropped more than$200 million in the 2024 elections.
00:02:42.479 --> 00:02:45.919
Uh crypto has spent some$200 million so far this cycle.
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AI linked uh, you know,$200 million linked to AI at least.
00:02:51.360 --> 00:02:55.439
So most of the invest in tomorrow coalition's money isn't even coming from clean energy.
00:02:55.599 --> 00:02:58.639
The vast majority of it came from crypto billionaire Chris Larson.
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The group only had 23 unique donors through August.
00:03:02.719 --> 00:03:04.240
Mike Casey, your thoughts.
00:03:04.560 --> 00:03:05.280
I have many.
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Uh first, um to be clear, I uh support this effort uh professionally, and Tom Matsy, who runs it, is a uh is a brilliant friend of mine.
00:03:14.719 --> 00:03:16.960
So I've I kind of have good news and I have bad news.
00:03:17.120 --> 00:03:30.400
The first is I'm gonna quote uh Representative Eric Burleson, who said who described investment tomorrow as quote, almost like a prowling lion looking for the weakest part of the flock, end quote.
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So have they instilled fear?
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Yes, they have.
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And they caught some uh overconfident, clean energy hating uh politicians napping, six of them.
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They're six for six right now.
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But here's the big thing.
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The I think the headline, though it describes the rough and tumble of politics with sort of um a a uh the right the view of the righteous, the fact of the matter is policy is downstream of politics.
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And if you don't play in politics in a as a disruptor who's disrupting within a big industry, you are being a fool.
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And so if you are a uh climate tech CEO, whether we work for you or not, on the client side, and you're sitting this out so far, I am asking you, I am pushing you to get off the bench and get into the game.
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Because if you don't, then who?
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If not now, when?
00:04:26.800 --> 00:04:42.560
This is the way things work, and we need to stop as a sector hoping somebody rides over the horizon to our rescue, and we can't dwell comfortably in the hot tub called everything will work out fine because we're lowest cost.
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No, it won't.
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That's not the way it works.
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Tall story number two.
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Well said, Mike Casey.
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Second story this week from Brad Plumer and Maxine Joslow from the New York Times.
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It's titled Trump Sharply Scales Back Fuel Economy Rules for New Cars.
00:04:56.079 --> 00:04:57.360
Tell me about it, Casey.
00:04:57.680 --> 00:05:03.040
Okay, so here there's an there's an old uh Zen Coan, right?
00:05:03.120 --> 00:05:05.199
A saying that's love some Zen Coins, hit me.
00:05:05.279 --> 00:05:05.439
Yeah.
00:05:05.759 --> 00:05:06.160
Yeah.
00:05:06.959 --> 00:05:15.040
If the Trump administration were to corner the market on stupid, would it's FTC need to bring an antitrust suit?
00:05:15.439 --> 00:05:15.920
That is the question.
00:05:16.480 --> 00:05:17.439
Meditate on that.
00:05:18.000 --> 00:05:29.360
Because with gas going above five dollars a gallon because it's in shortage, the last thing you'd want to do to cripple the U.S.
00:05:29.439 --> 00:05:40.720
auto industry providing electric vehicle choice or our mileage conservative choices would be to get rid of these fuel efficiency standards.
00:05:40.879 --> 00:05:51.040
It is the of all the dumb things that we have covered these dummies doing over the last two and a half years, this is about as dumb as it gets.
00:05:51.519 --> 00:05:54.079
Like it's just cornering the market on stupid.
00:05:54.240 --> 00:06:00.720
And we could give all the facts and the figures, but to simple math, people are paying more the pump because there's a shortage of gasoline.
00:06:01.360 --> 00:06:05.759
Why would you make us less efficient when it comes to gasoline right now?
00:06:05.920 --> 00:06:09.360
It is the absolute dumbest thing we could do, in my humble opinion.
00:06:09.439 --> 00:06:09.680
Paul.
00:06:10.240 --> 00:06:17.839
Yeah, we don't need to bring the economists into this, um, but but the economists are involved, disputing the administration's savings numbers.
00:06:17.920 --> 00:06:24.160
Uh, you may have seen a recent paper come out of the journal Science that found major inconsistencies in the calculations used by the administration.
00:06:24.399 --> 00:06:31.040
MIT's Chris Nittle said that uh when you do the analysis correctly, revoking these standards does not save consumers money.
00:06:31.120 --> 00:06:32.639
And it's for the reasons that Mr.
00:06:32.800 --> 00:06:34.079
Casey alluded to here.
00:06:34.160 --> 00:06:35.439
It's simple math.
00:06:35.600 --> 00:06:41.040
Um, gas prices are up around$4.50 a gallon on a national average, depending on where you live.
00:06:41.120 --> 00:06:45.759
You might be paying even more than that, up more than 40% from this time last year.
00:06:46.000 --> 00:06:48.240
And this rollback, it could push U.S.
00:06:48.319 --> 00:06:52.079
car makers toward bigger pickups and SUVs, which are more profitable for them.
00:06:52.240 --> 00:06:55.839
We've seen that, but EV sales are also growing fast in the rest of the world.
00:06:56.000 --> 00:06:58.000
Less than 10% of new cars in the U.S.
00:06:58.079 --> 00:07:06.720
uh sold last year were electric, in large part, I believe, because of the uh revocation of that$7,500 rebate that the feds were offering for EVs.
00:07:06.879 --> 00:07:12.399
I think if that was out there now, Mike, coupled with the price of gas, we'd be selling a lot more EVs in the U.S.
00:07:12.560 --> 00:07:14.720
But that's just this one humble guy's opinion.
00:07:14.800 --> 00:07:16.000
Hit us with story three.
00:07:16.240 --> 00:07:23.759
Yeah, I somewhere there is probably a lobbyist for Chinese automaker BYD that was working this into reality.
00:07:23.920 --> 00:07:26.079
So our third story, uh Michael J.
00:07:26.240 --> 00:07:32.879
Korn from the Washington Post, fix it or trash it, how to decide how long to keep your car in home appliances.
00:07:33.120 --> 00:07:37.600
We need to just note the headline, doesn't really get to the angle that caught our attention.
00:07:37.680 --> 00:07:43.199
Paul, I thought this was a very important story and it relates to the one we just got done discussing.
00:07:43.279 --> 00:07:43.600
You first.
00:07:44.000 --> 00:07:54.480
Yeah, someone who drove a Dodge Neon from the time I turned 15 until I was like almost 30 years old and had put a couple hundred thousand miles on it and replaced it with a junker engine.
00:07:54.560 --> 00:07:57.839
I I understand the economics of this debate very well.
00:07:58.079 --> 00:08:01.920
Sometimes a set of new tires is worth more than the entire value of your vehicle.
00:08:02.079 --> 00:08:05.439
Extrapolate that into our sphere for the purpose of this article.
00:08:05.600 --> 00:08:18.959
A peer-reviewed study published in Science in August found that if you bought a new gas car tomorrow, trashed it, and then drove a brand new EV for a decade, you would still do less harm to the climate than if you just kept driving that car for 10 years.
00:08:19.199 --> 00:08:20.560
Think about that for a second.
00:08:20.800 --> 00:08:26.079
A UC Santa Cruz professor and his colleague ran thousands of data points on lifetime vehicle pollution to come up with this.
00:08:26.160 --> 00:08:32.480
And EVs came out ahead in 92% of all scenarios, even if you scrap a brand new gas car.
00:08:32.639 --> 00:08:34.000
It all comes down to efficiency.
00:08:34.159 --> 00:08:37.519
Gas engines waste about 70% of their energy, mostly as heat.
00:08:37.679 --> 00:08:41.440
Uh in an EV, about 90% of electricity goes toward moving the car.
00:08:41.679 --> 00:08:43.440
A lot of simple math on the program, Mike.
00:08:43.600 --> 00:08:44.159
Your thoughts.
00:08:44.480 --> 00:08:54.960
Yeah, and I'm gonna say this as someone who drove his Honda Element for 21 years at 229,000 miles, literally till the wheel fell off on the highway.
00:08:55.200 --> 00:08:56.639
So I want to be clear, I got a lot of people.
00:08:56.879 --> 00:09:00.960
I sold that neon for$300 cash in a parking lot to someone, by the way.
00:09:01.120 --> 00:09:02.320
I just gave them the keys.
00:09:02.480 --> 00:09:03.840
I didn't even have a title for it.
00:09:04.000 --> 00:09:05.600
I they probably didn't do anything good with it.
00:09:05.759 --> 00:09:06.639
Anyway, sorry.
00:09:07.279 --> 00:09:10.080
So, but here's the big thing about this story.
00:09:10.240 --> 00:09:29.600
It it covers in a backdoor way the science that has now shown that EVs are so much more efficient from a fuel standpoint, from an energy standpoint, from a climate standpoint, that the inflection point comes out to four to 7,000 miles a year.
00:09:29.679 --> 00:09:33.039
This is less than half of what the average driver puts on a car.
00:09:33.200 --> 00:09:40.240
The EV lead's only growing because the grid's getting cleaner, batteries take less fossil fuels to build, and EV efficiency keeps rising.
00:09:40.480 --> 00:09:44.159
So the same logic does, it turns out, apply to the house.
00:09:44.320 --> 00:09:47.919
Most of the carbon pollution from phones and tablets comes from making them.
00:09:48.000 --> 00:09:52.000
So repairing them makes sense, but big appliances burn most of their energy in use.
00:09:52.240 --> 00:09:58.879
Today's closed washers have 50% more capacity and use 70% less energy than in 1990.
00:09:59.120 --> 00:09:59.840
Love this story.
00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:01.360
Thought it was a killer one.
00:10:01.440 --> 00:10:03.039
Uh, Paul, what's our fourth one?
00:10:03.279 --> 00:10:04.320
Yeah, that's a good one.
00:10:04.399 --> 00:10:11.679
Although I want to note that I think my washer uses a little more energy when it's walking across the floor when we overfill it, but that's neither here nor there.
00:10:12.000 --> 00:10:19.759
Story four this week from Julia Amon at Bloomberg titled Plug Power Inc.'s Electrolyzer Deal for Denmark Jet Fuel Project.
00:10:19.919 --> 00:10:20.639
Tell me about it.
00:10:20.879 --> 00:10:21.919
Yeah, Plug Power.
00:10:22.000 --> 00:10:26.000
They have been active uh for as long as I have been in this space.
00:10:26.080 --> 00:10:27.679
Uh hat tip to these guys.
00:10:27.840 --> 00:10:35.679
They've agreed to supply 280 megawatts of electrizer electrolyzers for Arcadia e-Fuels project Endor.
00:10:36.080 --> 00:10:41.679
It's a facility plan for Denmark's South Coast that aims to produce sustainable jet fuel.
00:10:41.919 --> 00:10:44.720
No, I'm pretty sure Endor is the moon planet with the Ewoks.
00:10:44.960 --> 00:10:46.240
I think you you got that wrong.
00:10:46.399 --> 00:10:47.759
That's a Star Wars reference.
00:10:47.919 --> 00:10:48.960
Anyway, sorry.
00:10:49.279 --> 00:10:55.440
All right, we're gonna have to take it up with Claire Queer in there, but the plant would tap renewable grid power to make hydrogen for jet fuel.
00:10:55.679 --> 00:10:59.919
Electrolyzers use electricity to split water into hydrogen and oxygen.
00:11:00.080 --> 00:11:06.879
The deal also sets plug up to be a preferred supplier for four future Arcadia projects in Europe and the Americas.
00:11:07.039 --> 00:11:10.879
And plug shares rose as much as 4.3 in New York trading.
00:11:10.960 --> 00:11:17.759
It follows three years of joint engineering work and deliveries will begin once Arcadia's project issues a notice to proceed.
00:11:17.919 --> 00:11:29.679
I love this, and I'll tell you I think plug power stock is worth an investment because if fossil fuel supplies keep being tight, um the aviation sector.
00:11:30.000 --> 00:11:36.559
No, you can't so you can't tell me that because I was one of the suckers who bought the top of Plug and lost my pants.
00:11:36.720 --> 00:11:40.799
And I'm not a smart investor, and so that was alongside of a bunch of other dumb investments.
00:11:40.879 --> 00:11:47.679
But I believed in what they were doing several years ago, and I I went along for the ride, and now I've got a big red number in my Robin Hood account.
00:11:47.759 --> 00:11:49.200
So don't tell me to buy plug stock.
00:11:49.360 --> 00:11:50.480
I believed in that company.
00:11:51.120 --> 00:11:55.279
Uh yeah, what I'm holding now is probably worth uh a couple bucks.
00:11:55.360 --> 00:11:58.639
I'll buy you a pumpkin spice latte with what I've got in plug now.
00:11:58.879 --> 00:12:03.679
But anyway, not to disparage the company because I truly believe in what they're doing, and I think this is very cool.
00:12:04.000 --> 00:12:05.840
Europe needs projects like this too, Mike.
00:12:05.919 --> 00:12:10.879
Starting in 2030, uh, more than 1% of jet fuel supplied at EU airports has got to be synthetic.
00:12:10.960 --> 00:12:15.279
It's got to be made from green hydrogen, carbon capture, uh captured carbon, rather.
00:12:15.360 --> 00:12:18.320
Uh, and that goes up to 35% by 2050.
00:12:18.480 --> 00:12:21.360
But nobody, as you know, in the space is making any of that stuff yet.
00:12:21.440 --> 00:12:24.000
And Plug was one of the, you know, the forebearers in this space.
00:12:24.399 --> 00:12:28.720
Um the sustainable aviation fuel airlines reported buying in 2025 was synthetic.
00:12:28.960 --> 00:12:31.279
Europe has roughly 60 of those projects in development.
00:12:31.360 --> 00:12:33.759
Not a single one has reached a final investment decision.
00:12:33.840 --> 00:12:37.279
And Endor, the moon planet we mentioned, is getting closer than most.
00:12:37.440 --> 00:12:40.399
It signed an EU innovation fund funding agreement in March.
00:12:40.559 --> 00:12:44.799
Last week, Uniper agreed to buy 40,000 metric tons a year for more than 10 years.
00:12:45.039 --> 00:12:46.320
Pretty big agreement there.
00:12:46.399 --> 00:12:48.799
Uh, about half of what the plant plans to make.
00:12:48.960 --> 00:12:50.480
All right, Mike, let's bring our guests in.
00:12:50.639 --> 00:12:51.519
Story number five.
00:12:51.919 --> 00:12:56.559
Number five took five people at a heat map news to compile.
00:12:56.879 --> 00:12:57.360
It's a big story.
00:12:58.000 --> 00:13:06.799
Robinson Meyer, Emily Pontecarvo, Jail Holesman, all of them are This Week in Clean Tech Veterans, Matthew Zeitland and Gillian Goodman.
00:13:06.879 --> 00:13:11.519
But we look past our three formers to say, who's the star of that show?
00:13:11.759 --> 00:13:13.759
It is clearly Gillian Goodman.
00:13:13.840 --> 00:13:17.039
So we're like, Gillian Goodman is coming on the show.
00:13:17.279 --> 00:13:18.320
Robinson who?
00:13:18.559 --> 00:13:19.519
Don't even know that guy.
00:13:19.919 --> 00:13:20.320
All right.
00:13:20.480 --> 00:13:25.440
Um, the Senate's big by the Senate's big bipartisan permitting deal explained.
00:13:25.600 --> 00:13:27.600
Hey, Gillian, great to have you here.
00:13:28.080 --> 00:13:38.320
If people have not read this very impressive piece of reporting, um, which we want them to do, can you give us the big takeaway from this project that you and your four colleagues have put together?
00:13:38.480 --> 00:13:41.039
Because it's I think this is a really good story.
00:13:41.200 --> 00:13:51.200
And good Lord knows we have covered the many, many flirtations of the Senate with a a permitting deal before.
00:13:51.360 --> 00:13:54.399
So tell us what's new and how likely it is to pass.
00:13:55.279 --> 00:14:00.799
I mean, that's the 64, 417-page question here is how likely it is to pass.
00:14:00.960 --> 00:14:05.200
We've seen a lot of uh reactions to it in the past few days.
00:14:05.440 --> 00:14:11.120
Um, some sort of Jared Huffman got up and said, you know, that he he didn't like it.
00:14:11.200 --> 00:14:14.799
And the green groups are now organizing to say we don't like it, we don't want it to pass.
00:14:14.960 --> 00:14:23.679
Um, however, a a lot of the sort of more abundance-oriented and more um we must build oriented groups are very behind this bill.
00:14:23.759 --> 00:14:27.919
And so the big takeaway essentially is that it's a big change.
00:14:28.080 --> 00:14:33.519
I think it cannot be understated how big a revolution in permitting in the US this would be.
00:14:33.679 --> 00:14:49.519
Um and it undertakes that in like across an enormous number of federal functions in terms of how we interpret key environmental statutes, how we plan and deploy energy, um, even how we organize the process of applying for and processing permits.
00:14:49.600 --> 00:14:52.799
So it would it's a really huge bill with a lot to digest.
00:14:52.879 --> 00:14:53.840
We're still digesting it.
00:14:53.919 --> 00:14:55.919
We published uh another story yesterday.
00:14:56.000 --> 00:14:59.440
We've got a couple more in the pipeline for today, and we're even talking about more next week.
00:14:59.519 --> 00:15:01.759
So there's there's really a lot to dig into.
00:15:02.399 --> 00:15:14.799
So I was taken aback a little by the notion that some clean energy folks might be against this bill because based on my understanding of it, and keep in mind, this just came out a few days ago, and so we're all still digesting, as you mentioned, Jillian.
00:15:14.960 --> 00:15:31.759
But my take on it is that it read as a pretty clean energy bill, and particularly so considering what we've been looking at for the last two years in the Trump administration, where a lot of speed to power initiatives have taken the front seat while the carbon reduction initiatives have had to get comfortable in the back.
00:15:32.879 --> 00:15:34.559
I think there are a few reasons why.
00:15:34.639 --> 00:15:37.120
And, you know, to be clear, I am on no side here.
00:15:37.200 --> 00:15:39.679
We're just sort of arbitrating everyone's positions.
00:15:39.840 --> 00:15:43.679
So, on the one hand, there are still some sticking points with the bill.
00:15:43.759 --> 00:15:54.480
We're not sure exactly where they are, but from what we've heard, we understand they're with some of the wind provisions and making sure that the administration um cannot simply uh arbitrarily stop wind projects.
00:15:54.639 --> 00:16:04.240
Now, the the bill includes measures to basically define what a pattern of arbitrary treatment would be and makes that illegal.
00:16:04.399 --> 00:16:12.799
However, there are ways that the administration, we've seen the administration get around existing law in so many ways that I think they're still trying to plug a few holes there.
00:16:13.440 --> 00:16:20.000
There are a few other reasons why green groups and clean energy groups, largely in favor of this bill, to the best of my understanding.
00:16:20.159 --> 00:16:24.960
It's environmental groups who have a lot of big objections that fall into a couple of different buckets.
00:16:25.200 --> 00:16:34.320
One are that a lot of the tech neutral uh provisions apply to oil and gas as well as renewable and clean energy.
00:16:34.480 --> 00:16:53.039
So it would facilitate, you know, in theory, and I'm I'm so hesitant to say anything definitive about this bill because again, it's so huge and there's still so much analysis to do, but it would not stop development of oil and gas, which is a huge, like, you know, clean energy and sustainability conservation group uh priority.
00:16:53.360 --> 00:17:03.360
It also would severely limit the ability of groups like Earth Justice, the Sierra Club to sue to stop projects under development.
00:17:03.440 --> 00:17:10.319
And these are the things that come under the National Environmental Policy Act, the National Historic Preservation Act, the Endangered Species Act.
00:17:10.480 --> 00:17:14.079
And that's something we're actively digging into right now and trying to understand.
00:17:14.240 --> 00:17:18.559
But you know, what I can say right now is that those effects appear to be significant.
00:17:18.799 --> 00:17:20.559
Jillian, I'm gonna put you on the spot.
00:17:20.799 --> 00:17:25.440
If you were a betting reporter, which I know you are not, what are these?
00:17:25.839 --> 00:17:26.640
I'm a betting reporter.
00:17:26.720 --> 00:17:27.359
Can I bet on this?
00:17:27.519 --> 00:17:28.319
Wait, what is it?
00:17:28.480 --> 00:17:30.960
You bet you bet poorly on plug power, Penny.
00:17:31.519 --> 00:17:32.559
Yeah, I bet poorly often.
00:17:32.640 --> 00:17:34.480
You should go against the sign of whatever you're better.
00:17:34.720 --> 00:17:35.440
Yeah, exactly.
00:17:35.920 --> 00:17:37.759
You should go against the public here.
00:17:38.240 --> 00:17:41.359
What's being said about the odds of passage?
00:17:41.839 --> 00:17:46.480
I think it's still too early to say, you know, I'm I'm fairly conservative in where I put my money.
00:17:46.559 --> 00:17:53.279
I think it's still too early to say, um, you know, this it this does seem to have but I mean this does have bipartisan support in the Senate.
00:17:53.440 --> 00:18:02.799
That's that it would need to clear the 60-vote filibuster threshold in the Senate, which means that it would need to keep all the Democrats on, or at least a significant number of Democrats on side.
00:18:03.119 --> 00:18:10.240
As far as the House, it depends on Mike Johnson's willingness to bring it to a vote, and that's never a guarantee.
00:18:10.480 --> 00:18:13.359
So there's still a lot up in the air.
00:18:13.519 --> 00:18:16.319
Um, and we'll see how the next five weeks unfold.
00:18:17.359 --> 00:18:22.960
It's not they're not gonna bring it to a vote until after the midterm elections, which is another uh important dynamic here.
00:18:23.440 --> 00:18:25.039
Paul, do you want to take a last question?
00:18:25.119 --> 00:18:28.319
Because we are heading toward a sub-20-minute episode.
00:18:28.720 --> 00:18:33.920
Jillian, I just gotta ask, how many times did you have to resist making the Baja Blast joke?
00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:35.839
And how many times did you actually make it?
00:18:36.000 --> 00:18:45.599
Because it's not every day that we get one of those clunky legislative acronyms and get to spin it into a delicious citrusy lemon lime drink reference, you know?
00:18:45.920 --> 00:18:54.240
Let's say we had some fun coming up with headlines for this story, and you may yet see a Baja Blast joke in a story uh very, very soon.
00:18:54.640 --> 00:19:05.839
I was trying to find a different way out, like banjo and Kazooie, like Baja and Kazooie, but the retro N64 title probably only hits a small subset of the audience that would that would even begin to understand what I'm getting at there.
00:19:05.920 --> 00:19:07.359
So we go back to the drawing board.
00:19:07.680 --> 00:19:10.960
Jillian, most important question is it data centers or data centers?
00:19:11.119 --> 00:19:11.519
Oh, geez.
00:19:11.759 --> 00:19:12.160
He's right.
00:19:12.319 --> 00:19:13.039
Come on.
00:19:13.680 --> 00:19:15.680
I gotta go with data and two words.
00:19:16.000 --> 00:19:17.759
That's that's heat map house style.
00:19:17.920 --> 00:19:18.240
Two words.
00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:18.799
Team K.
00:19:19.759 --> 00:19:23.119
Heatmap has a house style and it's data, not data.
00:19:23.359 --> 00:19:26.240
Well, I mean pronunciation is up to you, but it's two words.
00:19:26.480 --> 00:19:26.799
Oh, okay.
00:19:27.200 --> 00:19:28.880
That is your heart out.
00:19:28.960 --> 00:19:33.519
It's you and Clara Hudson alone on an island in the mispronunciation.
00:19:33.680 --> 00:19:36.240
I'm just saying, but hey, we got to go to our clean tech of the week.
00:19:36.400 --> 00:19:36.720
Let's do it.
00:19:36.799 --> 00:19:39.279
Clean tech of the week, drum roll, please.
00:19:39.440 --> 00:19:41.920
It is Gillian Goodman for No, I'm just kidding.
00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:42.480
Sorry, Gillian.
00:19:42.559 --> 00:19:44.319
Maybe one day you'll be Clean Techer of the Week.
00:19:44.480 --> 00:19:47.119
It's James Warden, founder of Warden Marine.
00:19:47.200 --> 00:19:48.160
She got excited for a second.
00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:49.039
I shouldn't have done that.
00:19:49.279 --> 00:19:52.799
James has been building solar-powered vehicles since the 1980s.
00:19:52.880 --> 00:19:53.680
Wow, that's wild.
00:19:53.759 --> 00:19:56.400
He started with a wood and cardboard solar go-kart.
00:19:56.559 --> 00:19:58.720
It won the Massachusetts State Science Fair.
00:19:58.880 --> 00:19:59.839
You still got it, I'm sure.
00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:05.039
It went on to help start MIT's solar electric vehicle team, co-founded Selectrio with his late wife.
00:20:05.279 --> 00:20:07.119
Now he's taking that vision to the water.
00:20:07.200 --> 00:20:16.000
His startup's true solar 20 boat, uh, named Anita after that ex-wife in her honor, can run all day on six solar panels at about eight miles per hour.
00:20:16.079 --> 00:20:18.720
A bigger version is being built for ferries and river tours.
00:20:18.880 --> 00:20:20.079
Sounds like wild stuff.
00:20:20.240 --> 00:20:23.599
James, uh, you sound like one of those legendary tinkerers.
00:20:23.680 --> 00:20:25.440
You deserve the Clean Tech or the Week title.
00:20:25.519 --> 00:20:26.000
Congratulations.
00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:26.640
Absolutely.
00:20:26.799 --> 00:20:27.279
Good.
00:20:27.599 --> 00:20:34.160
Shout out to a wonderful producer, Brian Mendez, and Claire Quirin and Alex Peterson for helping us gather these stories.
00:20:34.480 --> 00:20:37.599
You just named the invisible invisible panel of story selectors.
00:20:37.680 --> 00:20:38.640
I thought we were going to keep them.
00:20:38.720 --> 00:20:40.079
Oh no, we name them every show.
00:20:40.160 --> 00:20:41.200
Um, I tease.
00:20:41.680 --> 00:20:44.960
Thank you, the listener, for joining us for another round of This Week in Clean Tech.
00:20:45.039 --> 00:20:47.200
And one last shout out to Gillian Goodman from Beat Map.
00:20:47.359 --> 00:20:49.119
Please go check out the piece on the permitting bill.
00:20:49.200 --> 00:20:51.359
I think it's the biggest story in our space in quite some time.
00:20:51.519 --> 00:20:56.799
You should learn all about it before it even comes up for a boat in the lame deck uh session, if and when it does.
00:20:57.039 --> 00:21:02.240
If you enjoyed the show today, please subscribe, give a little feedback, share a story suggestion to the email we mentioned at the top.
00:21:02.319 --> 00:21:05.200
And don't forget, you can check out every article we talk about on this program.
00:21:05.279 --> 00:21:10.319
Just click the links in the episode description as well as in the post where this thing lives on factorthis.com.
00:21:10.480 --> 00:21:12.319
Until next time, be good, people.
