JoinExtraordinary: to Extraordinary Stories. I'm your host, Forbeshannon, and the guest today, multifaceted. ⁓ a sailor. He's got his whole ship series, which we'll get into. That's what I'm really excited about, but he's also the director of the Entrepreneur Center at UC Irvine. ⁓ Ryan Folland. Ryan, thanks for being here.
Ryan Foland: Ahoy, it's great to be here. You did forget that I'm probably the proudest ginger that you'll meet, so I'll make sure to keep that top line as well. It's okay, people forget about the gingers all the time. I'm just here to make sure they remember that we still exist, and we do have souls, and we're good people. Freckles are like solar panels. They're like, that's what gives us our energy. So just trying to, you know, try to preach the gospel. And you know what?
JoinExtraordinary: And you know what? I had that note in my bio too and I just totally left it out. The proudest ginger. You know?
Ryan Foland: Forbes, you can be an honorary ginger today as well. So it's, you know, we're all the same.
JoinExtraordinary: Yeah, you know, I mean, I shaved my head and my beard is red. So that's like makes me a ginger at this point, right? You know? Yeah.
Ryan Foland: Totally, Yeah, mean, claim it. It's a great thing.
JoinExtraordinary: You know, you actually said on our pre-call, I'm just gonna say this for our listeners, know, like, being a ginger as a kid was miserable, but now you're just fully leaning into it. Yeah?
Ryan Foland: Sure, spill the beans. Yes. You know, exactly. And I realize and I tell people this all the time, whatever somebody is trying to take you down for or they're making fun of you for, they're just secretly jealous. They're just jealous that they don't have that. It's just a weird displacement. And honestly, being a ginger was such a nightmare as a kid that like I've just reclaimed it. And there's a lot of speakers, there's a lot of authors. But the barrel gets smaller when it's speaker, author, ginger, sailor. And so I think we all
JoinExtraordinary: You You You
Ryan Foland: have these filters and the more we can pick filters that are meaningful from us, then it just kind of makes it lighthearted. I work with a lot of people and known for helping them market and brand themselves. And so many times they just go for the default. Well, I want to be known as a speaker or an author. And you're like, OK, great. And what? Like, what makes you you? Like, a speaker's a speaker, great. And I think we all have a chance to add a little bit of personality or
JoinExtraordinary: All right.
Ryan Foland: you're extraordinary because otherwise it's just meh, right? Like content is ⁓ not hard to come by, so how can you stand out a little bit and chase the past and find out what somebody made fun of you for and then go grab it and bring it back to you.
JoinExtraordinary: Yeah. Yeah, nice. Okay, we're gonna get into the fact that you help people communicate themselves with clarity and confidence, but you just said something about narrowing the barrel. ⁓ It gets narrower when you throw in ginger. So I'm curious, like if you're at a gathering and you see another ginger, are you like, hey, leave, these are my people? Like, is it competitive? No?
Ryan Foland: Yeah. Yes. Yes. No, I'm so excited. I was giving a talk yesterday to a bunch of engineers and in every talk I give, I always introduce myself as like a proud ginger. And then it kind of, there's this like kind of weird awkward silence. And then I go, any gingers in the house? Any gingers? And nobody ever raises their hand because there's never a ginger, right? And then I'm like, okay, well, it's okay. And I give them all the honorary title, but they all got a copy of my book afterwards. I signed it. And then after the books were signed,
JoinExtraordinary: Right.
Ryan Foland: This girl, sort of is awkwardly kind of coming up and standing at a distance and I know she wants to talk so I'm like, hey, what's going on? She comes over, she's like, my name's Ryan too. And I was like, okay. And she's like, so we just had this instant bond over the name Ryan, okay? And then she's like, have you heard about the Ryan Meetup Group? I'm like, ⁓ my God, yes, the Ryan Meetup Group. I'm trying to become the chapter head down here in Orange County and I'm talking with them. They've already got an LA chapter so.
JoinExtraordinary: You
Ryan Foland: No matter whether it's Bean Ginger or the same name, the same sports team or something that you like to do for fun, there's this like instant connection that you just like can latch onto. And I think you'll learn more about that when I write my relationship book. But it's all about finding common ground. And it's almost like I want to think like maybe video game style, like an extra free life that you get with somebody instantly. because there's some sort of a connection. You and I, when we first met, I looked at your bookshelf and I was like, dude, we have this same sort of setup. And like all of a sudden, we're bookshelf buddies.
JoinExtraordinary: Right, right. Okay. That's a that's a unique way of putting an extra life, right? So like, you can really screw up and say something later, but I gave you a pass because we're both named Ryan. Is that what you mean by that?
Ryan Foland: It's no, it's not like you I mean, it's not about messing up. I don't think you can necessarily mess up I think that it's more about like free credits or like extra like Maybe it's more of a fast. Okay. It's more of a level skip So you know like when you go down the tunnel and then I do do do do do do and you end up in like like four levels ahead that's what it is because it's the same thing happens when the concept of I Don't know that I forget the phrase like micro speed dating
JoinExtraordinary: ⁓ extra credit. Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah. Okay.
Ryan Foland: Right? Now, I'm happily married, been married forever, been with my wife forever, but like, I've got game and there was a lot of game and game is even not necessarily like, you know, the other sex, but like just connecting and meeting people. So there's this concept of if you go on a single date and let's say you go to a movie or if it's not a date, you meet somebody for coffee. That's like one touch point. And then it might take two, three, four touch points to really get to know them. But if before you go to coffee,
JoinExtraordinary: Mmm.
Ryan Foland: You take a little walk and then you do coffee and then you skip and you go somewhere else and then you do something else. Like if you can pack in three or four connections instead of over four times, you put it into one time, it accelerates a relationship. There's more of a bonding that's faster. So to have the same name, to be a ginger, to have a similar bookshelf, it just gets you a few levels forward in that relationship.
JoinExtraordinary: I love that. I love that.
Ryan Foland: Here's another one, just real quick. I don't want to eat up the whole time on this, but when we came on, we were dissimilarly framed. I was very, I was up here, I was big in the frame. And I saw you back, so I was like, hey, should I scoot back so we're even? And you're like, dude, no one has ever asked that before. I love podcasting with podcasters. And so we've got podcast pals, and we went whoop, whoop, whoop. We've like accelerated levels. So the amount of time that we've spent together is relatively small.
JoinExtraordinary: Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah.
Ryan Foland: But I don't know about you, but like, you're Ginger, you got the bookshelf, you're a podcaster. So like, we're good to go.
JoinExtraordinary: Yeah, 100%. I had a party at my place, the studio's here, and ⁓ my girlfriend invited her friend and her friend's boyfriend, and I'd never met him before. And I was like, so what do you do? He's like, ⁓ I have a podcast. It's like, bro, I have a podcast, you know? And so, you know, they're like trying to like go out and like go to dinner, but we're in the studio nerding out on like the camera and all this stuff. And it was, yeah, because... There is something unique about finding your people, right? Like someone who's like, ⁓ you can relate to what I'm going through because, you know, do you find that when you have similarities with people, you get to say all these things that you couldn't say to someone else because they wouldn't care? Like it's finally like someone where you're like, you get me? ⁓
Ryan Foland: Yes, and I just came up- Yeah, I just came up with a new word. It's a not a relationship. It's a relate a relation a relation ship. It's like it's not a like to relate a relate shin ship. That's it a relate No, no, yeah a relate shin ship and when you can relate with somebody, ⁓ my god and so for me like with sailing and
JoinExtraordinary: Yeah. A relation to relate. Mm-hmm.
Ryan Foland: Here's just a tip. A lot of people, they don't talk about what they'd like to do for fun. They're afraid to share weird, nuanced things. They like, they keep to themselves and keep things general. I was at this fancy biotech dinner and I sat down next to dude and he's like, hey, what's up? And I was like, ⁓ I had some complaint about not being able to sail. Like it was just legitimate. Like, ⁓ the weather's shitty. I can't go sailing. And he's like, you sail? I was like, yeah, do you? Yeah. 45 minutes later, okay, like we talked about all sailing the whole time.
JoinExtraordinary: Yeah.
Ryan Foland: And they're like ding ding ding on the glasses like start start and we're still talking and we're like ⁓ okay Well, hey, we got to pay attention. What do you do for a living? And he's like I was like shit me too, and then we exchanged business cards After 45 minutes, I raised 10 grand from the guy within two weeks after that so it was just like Relate relationships Yes
JoinExtraordinary: relationship. Yeah, I love it. My favorite networking question to ask is, how do you spend your Saturday mornings? Because my least favorite networking question is, so what do you do? know, like as soon as someone says that I'm like, I'm checked out, right? You know, I can only say that so many times tonight, you know.
Ryan Foland: Mmm. Right. But you know with that question though, it's interesting, and I talk about this a bit, they're asking the wrong question, and that's probably why there's a disinterest. Because nobody actually cares what you do. They don't. And if you poll audiences or you ask them, you're like, okay, I have a question. Do people care more about what you do, or do they care more about the problem that you solve? It can't be both. Really think about this as just a thought experiment.
JoinExtraordinary: Mm-hmm. Right. ⁓
Ryan Foland: overwhelmingly if people think about it. They're like, no, people don't really give a shit if I am this job position, but they're really interested if I can solve a specific problem. But the problem is people don't say, hey, how's it going? Nice to meet you. What problem do you solve? They don't say that. They say, what do you do? And then you say what you do, and then it's uninteresting. They're like, well, what do you do? It's uninteresting. And then they part. So a major hack that I have for networking or for people that I try to, you know,
JoinExtraordinary: Mmm.
Ryan Foland: have things be little bit different. When somebody asks you, what do you do? You just go, well, I actually do a lot of things. But I'm most excited or I'm most interested or I'm most passionate about, insert your authentic voice, about solving one particular problem. And then you stop talking. It's like a three, four second awkward silence. And they go, well, what's this problem that you're solving? And then you can share. the problem, but no mention of the solution like, this is terrible, or this is whatever, and you're like, do you think that's a problem? They're like, yeah. And then you can literally get people interested in your idea or what you do without telling them what you do.
JoinExtraordinary: Right, right.
Ryan Foland: I call it permission based pitching.
JoinExtraordinary: permission based pitching. I love that. Yeah. Okay, so
Ryan Foland: Yeah, I can get you interested in what I do without telling you what I do.
JoinExtraordinary: Yeah, okay. Well, so now as the director of the Entrepreneur Center at UC Irvine, you know, I'm assuming you work with a ton of founders and the number one thing I see from founders who do like pitch competitions at Venture Cafe Phoenix is they go right into this is what we do and not. What's that?
Ryan Foland: Yes. You know what they do before that? They go like this, my name is Ryan Follin and my thing is the Extraordinary Podcast. That is, okay, if anything, they don't know who you are, they don't care, and guess what? You were already introduced. Next up, Ryan Follin from Extraordinary Podcast. You're like, hi, my name is Ryan Follin, and you're like, wait, and then it's just, so that's what they always start with. So like, cut that out. But they should start with a story. That's what they should start with.
JoinExtraordinary: Yeah. Yeah, you're right. Well.
Ryan Foland: and the story should uncover the problem and only after that you share your solution and then you make sure to say this is not for everybody, explain who it's actually for and then come back with a story that you told in the beginning to close the loop with your solution in the future, something I call the 313 sandwich. Although my stick figure drawing looks more like a burger, I'm told.
JoinExtraordinary: Yes. Okay. So a couple of things unpacked there. No, no, no. To validate what you're saying about the introduction, you know, it's like how every comedian when they're brought up starts, how are we doing tonight? It's like, dude, the audience has answered that three times. They don't want to answer it a fourth, right? You know, that's like the habitual response. The second thing I want to unpack there with you as it relates to a story, how important or is it important that that story is directly related to the founder?
Ryan Foland: That was a lot, sorry. You have like three options. Okay. The most important thing about the story is it uncovers the problem. That's the core baseline. So it can be a personal story that uncovers the problem. It can be a story of a historical fictor of something historically that actually has been out there and historically could be like yesterday or somebody else like a real story or it could be a hypothetical. It could be imagine someone who so it could be your own story a story of somebody else that's real.
JoinExtraordinary: Okay.
Ryan Foland: or a hypothetical, but they lead to the problem. And it's a full setup. As humans, in the back of your brain where it all started in the brain stem, it's like an evolutionary filter for bears. And if you come at somebody with a solution or with data or technology, it's like, bear, bear, stop. Like, it won't even allow your brain to get to the prefrontal cortex. But if you say, I've got a story for you, or you tell a story, As humans, in the back of your where it all started in the brain stem, it's like ⁓ an evolutionary filter for bears. And if you come at somebody with a solution with data or technology, it's like, bear, bear, stop. Like, it won't even allow your brain to get to the prefrontal cortex. But if you say, I've got a story for you, or you tell a story,
JoinExtraordinary: Yeah. Yeah.
Ryan Foland: The bear detector is like, it's just a story, it's not a bear. Go ahead and listen. The bear detector is like, it's just a story, it's not a bear. Go ahead and listen.
JoinExtraordinary: Is there a preference or is there like some science to when to use which type of story?
Ryan Foland: No, I'd say in preference if it's personal story, it's the most powerful. If it's a real story from someone else, it's the second most powerful. And the third would be a hypothetical, but depending on your storytelling skills, they can all be delivered in a way where people are open to paying attention. And in a pitch, you may think you're pitching for money, you're just pitching for attention. And if people are going to cue into your pitch, because there's Five before you, there's 12 afterwards, and it's only a certain amount of time until they disengage and check their calendar for tomorrow. So it's more about the effectiveness of telling the story. And don't get me started on stories, because it's not only about the story, but it's about how to connect the stories to really make things powerful. And it's like the superpower.
JoinExtraordinary: For sure. Well, it's the superpower and then yeah, okay, so this is funny I think because we've bonded because we've had the common bonds that we've had here relate We have a relationship and you know what's funny is I've noticed this about myself in this conversation is I've focused more on gripes than I normally do with anyone else because I'm like Okay, finally someone I can talk to about this. You know, this is something I just noticed was going on
Ryan Foland: Yes. Relationship. We have a relationship. Okay. Right.
JoinExtraordinary: Another gripe I have though, because I got to run it by somebody, dude. When someone's telling a story, and you're halfway through listening to the story, and you're like, why are you telling me this story? Like, it almost does more damage than not telling the story at all, in my mind. What do you think?
Ryan Foland: Do it, do it. Yes. Well, the simple story structure that I teach is you tell the story and then you transition and you say, the reason I'm telling you this is because you're part of that and then you share the relatable lesson. And so if you had a gripe with somebody, it's that they didn't get to that point soon enough or they didn't let you know that the transition was happening. So if because people will go on and on for the story, but if you teach them to just get the
JoinExtraordinary: Mmm.
Ryan Foland: point of the story across and we can talk about again storytelling all day some of the fundamentals but you have to turn it back to the person who's listening to sort of re-engage that interest and then the rest of the time is pulling the lessons from the story. That's what I think.
JoinExtraordinary: Got it. So just some examples for our listeners of what a transition could look like.
Ryan Foland: ⁓ so the reason I'm telling you this is because or ever since that happened I thought about things a completely new way or ever since that moment or forever from that point on. Right. So to give a to zoom out just a little of how I see effective storytelling is that you first have to create context context before content. And imagine if you walked into a room blindfolded.
JoinExtraordinary: Got it. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
Ryan Foland: had no idea where you were, you would be disoriented. You would have no context. You'd be like feeling for walls. You would be like trying to see if you would hit your head. You'd be like, is this sturdy ground? And the same thing happens when you tell somebody a story. So you have to give them orientation to the room. You have to say when it was, it was 518 in the morning, two Thursdays ago. You have to tell them who was there.
JoinExtraordinary: Right? Right?
Ryan Foland: You have to tell them what was happening. You have to tell them why it was happening. And you have to come up with that incident. So it's like who, when, where, what, why, how, and the incident. And once you get those things down, that comprises the story. Now, if you want to pump it up and get things more emotional, you play to the senses. I smelled, I could taste, I could touch, I could hear, I could see.
JoinExtraordinary: Mm.
Ryan Foland: I could feel and then that adds in the sensory elements to it. And the final thing I'll say just to round this out. Most people retell stories. So there I was and it was this time and here's what's happened versus reliving. ⁓ my God, was, you're there in the moment. So if you relive it, like. Yeah, I have so many stories I want to jump into, but I won't. That's my point. Retail versus relive.
JoinExtraordinary: You just blew my mind, man. I thought that it was ⁓ just because a bit was bad that I would stop telling it, but it was because I was retelling it and not reliving it. know, because like when you got a fresh bit, you know, it kills, right? And then the shine wears off because you stop reliving it and you start retelling it. That's genius, Ryan.
Ryan Foland: Yes. Yes. Yeah. It's like present tense versus past tense. Like if I write something in third person about myself versus first person, there's a different energy to it. And then if you you sprinkle on a little bit of ginger flair and you act it out or you you use the four levers, which is rate of speech, volume, vocal variety and tone. And here's the cheat sheet for this. This is all speakership shit. If what you're saying is contextual,
JoinExtraordinary: Yeah. ⁓
Ryan Foland: It's okay to speed it up. It's okay to talk about it fast. But you have to slow down for the important stuff. And people aren't confident enough to slow down. But when you slow down, no matter what you say, cheese, tacos, burrito, it sounds important. In contrast to everything that is a little bit fast. So speed it up for context, but slow down for the important stuff. Volume, easy.
JoinExtraordinary: Mm.
Ryan Foland: People think I'm high energy. I'm just loud on purpose. That's it. That's That's it. Okay. Vocal variety. Yeah. Vocal variety. Like I'm a chill guy. I'm calm. But like if I need to pump it up, I'm just gonna get a little louder. Vocal variety. It's as simple as just making what you say go up and down. Monotone is the worst thing. And people just get stuck into their zone.
JoinExtraordinary: Another thing that we can relate on. Yeah.
Ryan Foland: The final lever is your face. People don't recognize that your tone comes from your face. You smile and say good morning. It's like good morning. You frown. It's like good morning. And this happens all the time. My gosh, with students to adults, they're like, with a stone face, this is the most exciting thing I've ever done in my life. And it's like the body trumps what you say, no matter what.
JoinExtraordinary: Yeah.
Ryan Foland: Right? You get home late and the wife locks the door and you're in trouble and you knock and she opens it. Folded arms. Purse lips. Eyebrows down. Glint. Like the right eye is sort of twitching. And you're like, honey, I'm sorry I'm late. Is everything okay? And she goes, yeah, everything's fine. I mean, yeah, everything's fine. And you're like, no, it's not. So people don't realize. They worry about what they're saying, but they forget that their face actually says it all.
JoinExtraordinary: Right. For sure. Now, so you have ⁓ Speakership and you have other books in the ship series. They're a whole fleet and they are illustrated by your ⁓ wonderful stick band drawings. So, yes, that's right. That's what I'm talking about, man. So my question is, is those four levers, for example, you
Ryan Foland: Yeah, anyways. Yes. A whole fleet of them. Yes. Well, I illustrate them, yes. By hand. They're all hand drawn, yes.
JoinExtraordinary: Do you find that those are just kind of innate to people? Like, it's just intuitive? Like, how did you realize that that was a thing that you had to like write down and actually do a service by telling people?
Ryan Foland: So I've been chasing after speaking at a high level for a decade. And if you think about the parts on the ship, you have like your tongue, your teeth, your mouth, your nose, your lungs, your diaphragm, your hands, not so much your ears, because I can't really wiggle them, but you have these different components. And think of it as like... There's one side of camp where you try to think of what to say. What stories to tell, what your message is, what you're getting across, the what. A lot of people focus on that. But the how side of the fence, there's really almost a limited number of things that you can do, right? You can speak really fast or slow. You can be really loud or not. You can change the variety and then you have what your body is saying. And those four components, I've sort of boiled down to the, I wish there were three. Dude, I wish there were three. Like three is it. But this is four. Actually, three plus, how about this? Three, which is your rate of speech, your volume, and your vocal variety. That's the three. The fourth, which is the bonus, is your body, because that's your tone. It sets the tone. Like, for people who maybe listening, if I was like,
JoinExtraordinary: Mm-hmm. Rule of three. I get it. Yep. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Ryan Foland: and I was trying to talk nice, you'd be like, wait, what's happening? Like, my body is the thing that's like pumping up or if I'm like this, right? So the body is a whole separate thing. So maybe it's three levers and body language. Anyways, I already wrote the book. It's in there as four levers. But when you chase after something for so long and you just try to find the nuances, the devil's in the details and the details are always the fundamentals.
JoinExtraordinary: Right. Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm. Mm.
Ryan Foland: Have you ever studied martial arts or anything like that?
JoinExtraordinary: ⁓ I have not studied martial arts outside of a couple classes here and there. Ice hockey.
Ryan Foland: Okay, what's your sport then? What's a sport? Do you play basketball? Ice hockey. Dude! Are you kidding me? Talk about a relationship. I played hockey for 15 years as a goaltender. Were you goalie by chance? Okay. ⁓ We are crazy. Dude, I played ice hockey for 15 years. I played ⁓ in college at UCSB. I was on the roller hockey crew like when that started to come out. So, dude. All right.
JoinExtraordinary: No way. No, I'm not a lunatic, man. Goleys are crazy, dude. ⁓ cool man red.
Ryan Foland: The fundamentals of anything you can get down to. Fundamentals of hockey? You gotta have the legs. You gotta skate. As a goalie, I was a good goalie by the way, would skate, like skating was so important to me. Like I was one of the best skaters on the team and people would be like, why are you focused so hard on skating? I'm like, because it's the fundamental. It's what moves my shit around. It's what makes me fast. So you take anything, whether it's martial arts, hockey, or speaking,
JoinExtraordinary: Mm-hmm. Right. You Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah. Hmm.
Ryan Foland: You focus on those fundamentals, the horse stance, the kicks, the basic stuff. People forget how important that is. And when it comes to your speakership, this is what holds the planks together. Or it would take... What's so fun, I'll have these present... I do these speakership talks and I'll bring somebody up and I'll have them give their pitch or I'll have them do whatever, right? And then they do it and I have the audience vote. And then I just cover the four tips.
JoinExtraordinary: Mm-hmm. Right. Mmm.
Ryan Foland: And I actually talk about how dolphins do it. So I talk about what we can learn from dolphins. You know, they've got whistles, clicks and pulses, but they speed up or slow down. They're loud or quiet. You've never met a dolphin that's monotone ever. And dolphins always are smiling. They always have that little uptick. So you never see a dolphin. You never hear an angry dolphin. It's because their tone is permanently smiling.
JoinExtraordinary: Hmm. Yeah.
Ryan Foland: So I talk about all these things that we learn from dolphins and then I have them come up again and I ask them four questions. What in your speech or what in your pitch is the most important thing? Okay, slow the fuck down when you do that. Like uncomfortably slow, okay? Now, where do you want energy? All right, you need to be loud during that part. All right, now.
JoinExtraordinary: ⁓ huh.
Ryan Foland: You sir talked the same tone or the same monotone the entire time change it up and then finally What are you excited about? Say it with a damn smile and then they do it again and kind of do like live coaching like speed up slow down slow down Okay, loud louder and Forbes it is unbelievable the difference between their first crack and their second crack and then everybody's like wow
JoinExtraordinary: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Ryan Foland: And then they don't practice and then they don't implement it and then they just go back to stone phase, monotone, same speed because it takes practice to actually implement. You don't learn how to sail at the dock. You gotta get out there.
JoinExtraordinary: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right. Stephen Chasing speaking for 10 years, you know, and you've got the fleet, you know, because I don't think I properly framed it up all the sailing analogies. Ryan's also an avid sailor and has a podcast called Good Jibes. ⁓ And so you have a fleet of books. ⁓
Ryan Foland: Yes. Yes. Well, it's a new series called Getting Your Ship Together. I've published Speakership. I'm writing Entrepreneurship, then Leadership. And my wife has agreed if I, when I publish all three, she'll co-author Relationship. You and I are going to write Relationship. And then I've got Salesmanship, Sponsorship, Internship, Mentorship. That's the whole fleet to come.
JoinExtraordinary: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I love it.
Ryan Foland: I'll be cranking out one of these at least one per year, but once I get faster, because you always get better when you do things, maybe like two of them per year, but for the foreseeable future, I'll be helping people get their ships together.
JoinExtraordinary: Hmm. for Nice, get your ships together. I love it. Okay, so a couple of things. I'd be remiss if I didn't mention that you were nominated to be an extraordinary by Coleman. So how do you know Coleman?
Ryan Foland: So Coleman and I have done some awesome work at the evolutionary venture capital firm that he's involved with. And so the team over there and I have connected. I've done a lot of work with accelerators and incubators because my friends, you can have the best idea in the world, the best technology stack, the sexiest looking app. But if you can't articulate it in a way that's compelling and you don't know how to story tell, it's not the best idea. See that I went slow and low volume for dramatic effect anyways. behind the green curtain. So I worked with Coleman and Hannah to come up with a customized three-part program that I call the Red Dot Accelerator for their portfolio of over 40 awesome companies to essentially help them understand how to get their own red dot. Red dot is two-fold. I'm a big TEDx fan and I think red dot, I think that red dot that you stand on, you you think of a target and a dot, there's this thing that you're after. So it's really about helping people understand the storytelling component of what story to tell and then how you actually tell that story and then where to link those stories to moments that matter. So it's a three part series called the Red Dot Accelerator that essentially dives into some of the same shtick that I do but specifically for founders. And there's this interesting element which Coleman is very excited about. I'm an AI power user. But I'm like, I believe in humans. And so I think human centric AI, where it can help you tell stories, can help you discover stories, it can help you with all these things, as long as you are the captain, as long as you are the one that is making the shots. So it's human centric AI, leveraging tools, agents, along with this ability to communicate at your highest level, because Forbes, as soon as you open your mouth, you show people who you are. And if you're raising money,
JoinExtraordinary: Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm.
Ryan Foland: You're building a business. You want to make sure you're sharing your best. So shout out to Coleman. He's he and I have a great relationship and we just get all geeked out and just like this. Like I feel like our conversations or podcasts just not recorded.
JoinExtraordinary: Yeah, for sure. He's he is an awesome dude I met him at venture Cafe Phoenix because he is ⁓ you know bringing some resources into the valley here with Alex chomp and Hannah Savage and you know building that up here in the Phoenix area ⁓ Man dude our time flew by on this episode. We will definitely have to do another one ⁓ but I ask this question to everybody who's come on extraordinary stories and it is if There's one thing our listeners could do today to live more extraordinary like Ryan Folland. What would it be?
Ryan Foland: Well, I might have to make another word up here for this and it's it has to do with extraordinary, but for some reason it also sounds like extra ordinary like extraordinary to me it sounds Extraordinary. So if you truly want to be extraordinary my tip to you is to be extra ordinary and that means being human
JoinExtraordinary: Mm-hmm.
Ryan Foland: Relating on bookshelves talking about what you've done in the past like dude I can't believe that you played hockey like I just want to talk about that now right so people think that People think that others care about their story of success but what they really care about is how they see themselves in your story and We're all ordinary at the end of the day like on a Saturday morning We all have something that we do, but if you're afraid to share that or You're too timid to share that then you're not going to connect with people, you're not going to have as much fun, you're going to just sit there and just hustle and grind and forget this beautiful life that we have a chance to live every single day. So be extra ordinary and don't have crazy high expectations for yourself. And if the first step is too big, then it's, or if the first step is like too intimidating, like take a step back or just breathe at the of the day. That's it. Be extra ordinary to be. Extraordinary. That's what I think.
JoinExtraordinary: I love that man. Yeah, wow. And you can just, you...
Ryan Foland: Because honestly to be extraordinary is kind of intimidating like what makes you extraordinary like ⁓ shit I don't know like I'm just an ordinary guy who's done something ⁓ in a specific path for a decade So other people think it's extraordinary. I know we're short on time, but this might be another thread for another podcast I ask people all the time. What's more important your experience or your expertise and most people think ⁓
JoinExtraordinary: Sure. Yeah.
Ryan Foland: I gotta be extraordinary. It's my expertise. That's what I'm striving for. Bullshit. What's most important is your experience. Because experience is what you've learned. Based on things going wrong. Which makes you human. Which makes you connect. Right? There's a lot... I don't want to say this, but I've probably let in quite a few goals. More so than I would ever want to. But I strive for not letting them in. And if over time I let less in, then that's my expertise.
JoinExtraordinary: You
Ryan Foland: But we thrive and live every day with our experience to be extra ordinary.
JoinExtraordinary: Hmm. Yeah, I totally get it man. If people were to ask me what makes me extraordinary, it's that I'm just Forbes. I'm authentic, I'm curious, and I'm fun. That's ordinary. But it is extraordinary. I love it, dude. Yeah.
Ryan Foland: Yeah. But you've owned that and you're cool to say that and you keep showing up as that and that's what makes it extraordinary. Right? You're not like doing backflips while you're doing things and doing extraordinary crazy things, but you get out there and you consistently show up as you and people want to do business with people and they want to do business with people who they know, like and trust. But it all starts with letting them get to know you. So. Yes.
JoinExtraordinary: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm hmm. You can man we could fill a whole series with these. Yeah, you want that? Yeah, Ryan's always just dropping knowledge. You can read more about Ryan Folland and the get your ship together series at join extraordinary.com. That's J O I N E X T R A O R D I N A R Y.com. Follow us on social media at join extraordinary on all your major platforms. I'm Forbes Shannon Ryan. Thank you so much for being here, man.
Ryan Foland: You chew on that. Thank you. And if you want to find me online and you remember my name, it's very easy. My website is Ryan.Online
JoinExtraordinary: Ryan.online. Nice, dude.
Ryan Foland: That's it, come check it out. Yeah, if you remember me, Ryan, Ryan, who's that guy? What was his last name? Forget about the last name. Just Ryan.Online.
JoinExtraordinary: Brilliant. Awesome. Thanks, Ryan. Thanks for being here.
Ryan Foland: All right. We'll see you soon Forbes. Thanks. Adios.
Ryan Foland: Ahoy, it's great to be here. You did forget that I'm probably the proudest ginger that you'll meet, so I'll make sure to keep that top line as well. It's okay, people forget about the gingers all the time. I'm just here to make sure they remember that we still exist, and we do have souls, and we're good people. Freckles are like solar panels. They're like, that's what gives us our energy. So just trying to, you know, try to preach the gospel. And you know what?
JoinExtraordinary: And you know what? I had that note in my bio too and I just totally left it out. The proudest ginger. You know?
Ryan Foland: Forbes, you can be an honorary ginger today as well. So it's, you know, we're all the same.
JoinExtraordinary: Yeah, you know, I mean, I shaved my head and my beard is red. So that's like makes me a ginger at this point, right? You know? Yeah.
Ryan Foland: Totally, Yeah, mean, claim it. It's a great thing.
JoinExtraordinary: You know, you actually said on our pre-call, I'm just gonna say this for our listeners, know, like, being a ginger as a kid was miserable, but now you're just fully leaning into it. Yeah?
Ryan Foland: Sure, spill the beans. Yes. You know, exactly. And I realize and I tell people this all the time, whatever somebody is trying to take you down for or they're making fun of you for, they're just secretly jealous. They're just jealous that they don't have that. It's just a weird displacement. And honestly, being a ginger was such a nightmare as a kid that like I've just reclaimed it. And there's a lot of speakers, there's a lot of authors. But the barrel gets smaller when it's speaker, author, ginger, sailor. And so I think we all
JoinExtraordinary: You You You
Ryan Foland: have these filters and the more we can pick filters that are meaningful from us, then it just kind of makes it lighthearted. I work with a lot of people and known for helping them market and brand themselves. And so many times they just go for the default. Well, I want to be known as a speaker or an author. And you're like, OK, great. And what? Like, what makes you you? Like, a speaker's a speaker, great. And I think we all have a chance to add a little bit of personality or
JoinExtraordinary: All right.
Ryan Foland: you're extraordinary because otherwise it's just meh, right? Like content is ⁓ not hard to come by, so how can you stand out a little bit and chase the past and find out what somebody made fun of you for and then go grab it and bring it back to you.
JoinExtraordinary: Yeah. Yeah, nice. Okay, we're gonna get into the fact that you help people communicate themselves with clarity and confidence, but you just said something about narrowing the barrel. ⁓ It gets narrower when you throw in ginger. So I'm curious, like if you're at a gathering and you see another ginger, are you like, hey, leave, these are my people? Like, is it competitive? No?
Ryan Foland: Yeah. Yes. Yes. No, I'm so excited. I was giving a talk yesterday to a bunch of engineers and in every talk I give, I always introduce myself as like a proud ginger. And then it kind of, there's this like kind of weird awkward silence. And then I go, any gingers in the house? Any gingers? And nobody ever raises their hand because there's never a ginger, right? And then I'm like, okay, well, it's okay. And I give them all the honorary title, but they all got a copy of my book afterwards. I signed it. And then after the books were signed,
JoinExtraordinary: Right.
Ryan Foland: This girl, sort of is awkwardly kind of coming up and standing at a distance and I know she wants to talk so I'm like, hey, what's going on? She comes over, she's like, my name's Ryan too. And I was like, okay. And she's like, so we just had this instant bond over the name Ryan, okay? And then she's like, have you heard about the Ryan Meetup Group? I'm like, ⁓ my God, yes, the Ryan Meetup Group. I'm trying to become the chapter head down here in Orange County and I'm talking with them. They've already got an LA chapter so.
JoinExtraordinary: You
Ryan Foland: No matter whether it's Bean Ginger or the same name, the same sports team or something that you like to do for fun, there's this like instant connection that you just like can latch onto. And I think you'll learn more about that when I write my relationship book. But it's all about finding common ground. And it's almost like I want to think like maybe video game style, like an extra free life that you get with somebody instantly. because there's some sort of a connection. You and I, when we first met, I looked at your bookshelf and I was like, dude, we have this same sort of setup. And like all of a sudden, we're bookshelf buddies.
JoinExtraordinary: Right, right. Okay. That's a that's a unique way of putting an extra life, right? So like, you can really screw up and say something later, but I gave you a pass because we're both named Ryan. Is that what you mean by that?
Ryan Foland: It's no, it's not like you I mean, it's not about messing up. I don't think you can necessarily mess up I think that it's more about like free credits or like extra like Maybe it's more of a fast. Okay. It's more of a level skip So you know like when you go down the tunnel and then I do do do do do do and you end up in like like four levels ahead that's what it is because it's the same thing happens when the concept of I Don't know that I forget the phrase like micro speed dating
JoinExtraordinary: ⁓ extra credit. Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah. Okay.
Ryan Foland: Right? Now, I'm happily married, been married forever, been with my wife forever, but like, I've got game and there was a lot of game and game is even not necessarily like, you know, the other sex, but like just connecting and meeting people. So there's this concept of if you go on a single date and let's say you go to a movie or if it's not a date, you meet somebody for coffee. That's like one touch point. And then it might take two, three, four touch points to really get to know them. But if before you go to coffee,
JoinExtraordinary: Mmm.
Ryan Foland: You take a little walk and then you do coffee and then you skip and you go somewhere else and then you do something else. Like if you can pack in three or four connections instead of over four times, you put it into one time, it accelerates a relationship. There's more of a bonding that's faster. So to have the same name, to be a ginger, to have a similar bookshelf, it just gets you a few levels forward in that relationship.
JoinExtraordinary: I love that. I love that.
Ryan Foland: Here's another one, just real quick. I don't want to eat up the whole time on this, but when we came on, we were dissimilarly framed. I was very, I was up here, I was big in the frame. And I saw you back, so I was like, hey, should I scoot back so we're even? And you're like, dude, no one has ever asked that before. I love podcasting with podcasters. And so we've got podcast pals, and we went whoop, whoop, whoop. We've like accelerated levels. So the amount of time that we've spent together is relatively small.
JoinExtraordinary: Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah.
Ryan Foland: But I don't know about you, but like, you're Ginger, you got the bookshelf, you're a podcaster. So like, we're good to go.
JoinExtraordinary: Yeah, 100%. I had a party at my place, the studio's here, and ⁓ my girlfriend invited her friend and her friend's boyfriend, and I'd never met him before. And I was like, so what do you do? He's like, ⁓ I have a podcast. It's like, bro, I have a podcast, you know? And so, you know, they're like trying to like go out and like go to dinner, but we're in the studio nerding out on like the camera and all this stuff. And it was, yeah, because... There is something unique about finding your people, right? Like someone who's like, ⁓ you can relate to what I'm going through because, you know, do you find that when you have similarities with people, you get to say all these things that you couldn't say to someone else because they wouldn't care? Like it's finally like someone where you're like, you get me? ⁓
Ryan Foland: Yes, and I just came up- Yeah, I just came up with a new word. It's a not a relationship. It's a relate a relation a relation ship. It's like it's not a like to relate a relate shin ship. That's it a relate No, no, yeah a relate shin ship and when you can relate with somebody, ⁓ my god and so for me like with sailing and
JoinExtraordinary: Yeah. A relation to relate. Mm-hmm.
Ryan Foland: Here's just a tip. A lot of people, they don't talk about what they'd like to do for fun. They're afraid to share weird, nuanced things. They like, they keep to themselves and keep things general. I was at this fancy biotech dinner and I sat down next to dude and he's like, hey, what's up? And I was like, ⁓ I had some complaint about not being able to sail. Like it was just legitimate. Like, ⁓ the weather's shitty. I can't go sailing. And he's like, you sail? I was like, yeah, do you? Yeah. 45 minutes later, okay, like we talked about all sailing the whole time.
JoinExtraordinary: Yeah.
Ryan Foland: And they're like ding ding ding on the glasses like start start and we're still talking and we're like ⁓ okay Well, hey, we got to pay attention. What do you do for a living? And he's like I was like shit me too, and then we exchanged business cards After 45 minutes, I raised 10 grand from the guy within two weeks after that so it was just like Relate relationships Yes
JoinExtraordinary: relationship. Yeah, I love it. My favorite networking question to ask is, how do you spend your Saturday mornings? Because my least favorite networking question is, so what do you do? know, like as soon as someone says that I'm like, I'm checked out, right? You know, I can only say that so many times tonight, you know.
Ryan Foland: Mmm. Right. But you know with that question though, it's interesting, and I talk about this a bit, they're asking the wrong question, and that's probably why there's a disinterest. Because nobody actually cares what you do. They don't. And if you poll audiences or you ask them, you're like, okay, I have a question. Do people care more about what you do, or do they care more about the problem that you solve? It can't be both. Really think about this as just a thought experiment.
JoinExtraordinary: Mm-hmm. Right. ⁓
Ryan Foland: overwhelmingly if people think about it. They're like, no, people don't really give a shit if I am this job position, but they're really interested if I can solve a specific problem. But the problem is people don't say, hey, how's it going? Nice to meet you. What problem do you solve? They don't say that. They say, what do you do? And then you say what you do, and then it's uninteresting. They're like, well, what do you do? It's uninteresting. And then they part. So a major hack that I have for networking or for people that I try to, you know,
JoinExtraordinary: Mmm.
Ryan Foland: have things be little bit different. When somebody asks you, what do you do? You just go, well, I actually do a lot of things. But I'm most excited or I'm most interested or I'm most passionate about, insert your authentic voice, about solving one particular problem. And then you stop talking. It's like a three, four second awkward silence. And they go, well, what's this problem that you're solving? And then you can share. the problem, but no mention of the solution like, this is terrible, or this is whatever, and you're like, do you think that's a problem? They're like, yeah. And then you can literally get people interested in your idea or what you do without telling them what you do.
JoinExtraordinary: Right, right.
Ryan Foland: I call it permission based pitching.
JoinExtraordinary: permission based pitching. I love that. Yeah. Okay, so
Ryan Foland: Yeah, I can get you interested in what I do without telling you what I do.
JoinExtraordinary: Yeah, okay. Well, so now as the director of the Entrepreneur Center at UC Irvine, you know, I'm assuming you work with a ton of founders and the number one thing I see from founders who do like pitch competitions at Venture Cafe Phoenix is they go right into this is what we do and not. What's that?
Ryan Foland: Yes. You know what they do before that? They go like this, my name is Ryan Follin and my thing is the Extraordinary Podcast. That is, okay, if anything, they don't know who you are, they don't care, and guess what? You were already introduced. Next up, Ryan Follin from Extraordinary Podcast. You're like, hi, my name is Ryan Follin, and you're like, wait, and then it's just, so that's what they always start with. So like, cut that out. But they should start with a story. That's what they should start with.
JoinExtraordinary: Yeah. Yeah, you're right. Well.
Ryan Foland: and the story should uncover the problem and only after that you share your solution and then you make sure to say this is not for everybody, explain who it's actually for and then come back with a story that you told in the beginning to close the loop with your solution in the future, something I call the 313 sandwich. Although my stick figure drawing looks more like a burger, I'm told.
JoinExtraordinary: Yes. Okay. So a couple of things unpacked there. No, no, no. To validate what you're saying about the introduction, you know, it's like how every comedian when they're brought up starts, how are we doing tonight? It's like, dude, the audience has answered that three times. They don't want to answer it a fourth, right? You know, that's like the habitual response. The second thing I want to unpack there with you as it relates to a story, how important or is it important that that story is directly related to the founder?
Ryan Foland: That was a lot, sorry. You have like three options. Okay. The most important thing about the story is it uncovers the problem. That's the core baseline. So it can be a personal story that uncovers the problem. It can be a story of a historical fictor of something historically that actually has been out there and historically could be like yesterday or somebody else like a real story or it could be a hypothetical. It could be imagine someone who so it could be your own story a story of somebody else that's real.
JoinExtraordinary: Okay.
Ryan Foland: or a hypothetical, but they lead to the problem. And it's a full setup. As humans, in the back of your brain where it all started in the brain stem, it's like an evolutionary filter for bears. And if you come at somebody with a solution or with data or technology, it's like, bear, bear, stop. Like, it won't even allow your brain to get to the prefrontal cortex. But if you say, I've got a story for you, or you tell a story, As humans, in the back of your where it all started in the brain stem, it's like ⁓ an evolutionary filter for bears. And if you come at somebody with a solution with data or technology, it's like, bear, bear, stop. Like, it won't even allow your brain to get to the prefrontal cortex. But if you say, I've got a story for you, or you tell a story,
JoinExtraordinary: Yeah. Yeah.
Ryan Foland: The bear detector is like, it's just a story, it's not a bear. Go ahead and listen. The bear detector is like, it's just a story, it's not a bear. Go ahead and listen.
JoinExtraordinary: Is there a preference or is there like some science to when to use which type of story?
Ryan Foland: No, I'd say in preference if it's personal story, it's the most powerful. If it's a real story from someone else, it's the second most powerful. And the third would be a hypothetical, but depending on your storytelling skills, they can all be delivered in a way where people are open to paying attention. And in a pitch, you may think you're pitching for money, you're just pitching for attention. And if people are going to cue into your pitch, because there's Five before you, there's 12 afterwards, and it's only a certain amount of time until they disengage and check their calendar for tomorrow. So it's more about the effectiveness of telling the story. And don't get me started on stories, because it's not only about the story, but it's about how to connect the stories to really make things powerful. And it's like the superpower.
JoinExtraordinary: For sure. Well, it's the superpower and then yeah, okay, so this is funny I think because we've bonded because we've had the common bonds that we've had here relate We have a relationship and you know what's funny is I've noticed this about myself in this conversation is I've focused more on gripes than I normally do with anyone else because I'm like Okay, finally someone I can talk to about this. You know, this is something I just noticed was going on
Ryan Foland: Yes. Relationship. We have a relationship. Okay. Right.
JoinExtraordinary: Another gripe I have though, because I got to run it by somebody, dude. When someone's telling a story, and you're halfway through listening to the story, and you're like, why are you telling me this story? Like, it almost does more damage than not telling the story at all, in my mind. What do you think?
Ryan Foland: Do it, do it. Yes. Well, the simple story structure that I teach is you tell the story and then you transition and you say, the reason I'm telling you this is because you're part of that and then you share the relatable lesson. And so if you had a gripe with somebody, it's that they didn't get to that point soon enough or they didn't let you know that the transition was happening. So if because people will go on and on for the story, but if you teach them to just get the
JoinExtraordinary: Mmm.
Ryan Foland: point of the story across and we can talk about again storytelling all day some of the fundamentals but you have to turn it back to the person who's listening to sort of re-engage that interest and then the rest of the time is pulling the lessons from the story. That's what I think.
JoinExtraordinary: Got it. So just some examples for our listeners of what a transition could look like.
Ryan Foland: ⁓ so the reason I'm telling you this is because or ever since that happened I thought about things a completely new way or ever since that moment or forever from that point on. Right. So to give a to zoom out just a little of how I see effective storytelling is that you first have to create context context before content. And imagine if you walked into a room blindfolded.
JoinExtraordinary: Got it. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
Ryan Foland: had no idea where you were, you would be disoriented. You would have no context. You'd be like feeling for walls. You would be like trying to see if you would hit your head. You'd be like, is this sturdy ground? And the same thing happens when you tell somebody a story. So you have to give them orientation to the room. You have to say when it was, it was 518 in the morning, two Thursdays ago. You have to tell them who was there.
JoinExtraordinary: Right? Right?
Ryan Foland: You have to tell them what was happening. You have to tell them why it was happening. And you have to come up with that incident. So it's like who, when, where, what, why, how, and the incident. And once you get those things down, that comprises the story. Now, if you want to pump it up and get things more emotional, you play to the senses. I smelled, I could taste, I could touch, I could hear, I could see.
JoinExtraordinary: Mm.
Ryan Foland: I could feel and then that adds in the sensory elements to it. And the final thing I'll say just to round this out. Most people retell stories. So there I was and it was this time and here's what's happened versus reliving. ⁓ my God, was, you're there in the moment. So if you relive it, like. Yeah, I have so many stories I want to jump into, but I won't. That's my point. Retail versus relive.
JoinExtraordinary: You just blew my mind, man. I thought that it was ⁓ just because a bit was bad that I would stop telling it, but it was because I was retelling it and not reliving it. know, because like when you got a fresh bit, you know, it kills, right? And then the shine wears off because you stop reliving it and you start retelling it. That's genius, Ryan.
Ryan Foland: Yes. Yes. Yeah. It's like present tense versus past tense. Like if I write something in third person about myself versus first person, there's a different energy to it. And then if you you sprinkle on a little bit of ginger flair and you act it out or you you use the four levers, which is rate of speech, volume, vocal variety and tone. And here's the cheat sheet for this. This is all speakership shit. If what you're saying is contextual,
JoinExtraordinary: Yeah. ⁓
Ryan Foland: It's okay to speed it up. It's okay to talk about it fast. But you have to slow down for the important stuff. And people aren't confident enough to slow down. But when you slow down, no matter what you say, cheese, tacos, burrito, it sounds important. In contrast to everything that is a little bit fast. So speed it up for context, but slow down for the important stuff. Volume, easy.
JoinExtraordinary: Mm.
Ryan Foland: People think I'm high energy. I'm just loud on purpose. That's it. That's That's it. Okay. Vocal variety. Yeah. Vocal variety. Like I'm a chill guy. I'm calm. But like if I need to pump it up, I'm just gonna get a little louder. Vocal variety. It's as simple as just making what you say go up and down. Monotone is the worst thing. And people just get stuck into their zone.
JoinExtraordinary: Another thing that we can relate on. Yeah.
Ryan Foland: The final lever is your face. People don't recognize that your tone comes from your face. You smile and say good morning. It's like good morning. You frown. It's like good morning. And this happens all the time. My gosh, with students to adults, they're like, with a stone face, this is the most exciting thing I've ever done in my life. And it's like the body trumps what you say, no matter what.
JoinExtraordinary: Yeah.
Ryan Foland: Right? You get home late and the wife locks the door and you're in trouble and you knock and she opens it. Folded arms. Purse lips. Eyebrows down. Glint. Like the right eye is sort of twitching. And you're like, honey, I'm sorry I'm late. Is everything okay? And she goes, yeah, everything's fine. I mean, yeah, everything's fine. And you're like, no, it's not. So people don't realize. They worry about what they're saying, but they forget that their face actually says it all.
JoinExtraordinary: Right. For sure. Now, so you have ⁓ Speakership and you have other books in the ship series. They're a whole fleet and they are illustrated by your ⁓ wonderful stick band drawings. So, yes, that's right. That's what I'm talking about, man. So my question is, is those four levers, for example, you
Ryan Foland: Yeah, anyways. Yes. A whole fleet of them. Yes. Well, I illustrate them, yes. By hand. They're all hand drawn, yes.
JoinExtraordinary: Do you find that those are just kind of innate to people? Like, it's just intuitive? Like, how did you realize that that was a thing that you had to like write down and actually do a service by telling people?
Ryan Foland: So I've been chasing after speaking at a high level for a decade. And if you think about the parts on the ship, you have like your tongue, your teeth, your mouth, your nose, your lungs, your diaphragm, your hands, not so much your ears, because I can't really wiggle them, but you have these different components. And think of it as like... There's one side of camp where you try to think of what to say. What stories to tell, what your message is, what you're getting across, the what. A lot of people focus on that. But the how side of the fence, there's really almost a limited number of things that you can do, right? You can speak really fast or slow. You can be really loud or not. You can change the variety and then you have what your body is saying. And those four components, I've sort of boiled down to the, I wish there were three. Dude, I wish there were three. Like three is it. But this is four. Actually, three plus, how about this? Three, which is your rate of speech, your volume, and your vocal variety. That's the three. The fourth, which is the bonus, is your body, because that's your tone. It sets the tone. Like, for people who maybe listening, if I was like,
JoinExtraordinary: Mm-hmm. Rule of three. I get it. Yep. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Ryan Foland: and I was trying to talk nice, you'd be like, wait, what's happening? Like, my body is the thing that's like pumping up or if I'm like this, right? So the body is a whole separate thing. So maybe it's three levers and body language. Anyways, I already wrote the book. It's in there as four levers. But when you chase after something for so long and you just try to find the nuances, the devil's in the details and the details are always the fundamentals.
JoinExtraordinary: Right. Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm. Mm.
Ryan Foland: Have you ever studied martial arts or anything like that?
JoinExtraordinary: ⁓ I have not studied martial arts outside of a couple classes here and there. Ice hockey.
Ryan Foland: Okay, what's your sport then? What's a sport? Do you play basketball? Ice hockey. Dude! Are you kidding me? Talk about a relationship. I played hockey for 15 years as a goaltender. Were you goalie by chance? Okay. ⁓ We are crazy. Dude, I played ice hockey for 15 years. I played ⁓ in college at UCSB. I was on the roller hockey crew like when that started to come out. So, dude. All right.
JoinExtraordinary: No way. No, I'm not a lunatic, man. Goleys are crazy, dude. ⁓ cool man red.
Ryan Foland: The fundamentals of anything you can get down to. Fundamentals of hockey? You gotta have the legs. You gotta skate. As a goalie, I was a good goalie by the way, would skate, like skating was so important to me. Like I was one of the best skaters on the team and people would be like, why are you focused so hard on skating? I'm like, because it's the fundamental. It's what moves my shit around. It's what makes me fast. So you take anything, whether it's martial arts, hockey, or speaking,
JoinExtraordinary: Mm-hmm. Right. You Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah. Hmm.
Ryan Foland: You focus on those fundamentals, the horse stance, the kicks, the basic stuff. People forget how important that is. And when it comes to your speakership, this is what holds the planks together. Or it would take... What's so fun, I'll have these present... I do these speakership talks and I'll bring somebody up and I'll have them give their pitch or I'll have them do whatever, right? And then they do it and I have the audience vote. And then I just cover the four tips.
JoinExtraordinary: Mm-hmm. Right. Mmm.
Ryan Foland: And I actually talk about how dolphins do it. So I talk about what we can learn from dolphins. You know, they've got whistles, clicks and pulses, but they speed up or slow down. They're loud or quiet. You've never met a dolphin that's monotone ever. And dolphins always are smiling. They always have that little uptick. So you never see a dolphin. You never hear an angry dolphin. It's because their tone is permanently smiling.
JoinExtraordinary: Hmm. Yeah.
Ryan Foland: So I talk about all these things that we learn from dolphins and then I have them come up again and I ask them four questions. What in your speech or what in your pitch is the most important thing? Okay, slow the fuck down when you do that. Like uncomfortably slow, okay? Now, where do you want energy? All right, you need to be loud during that part. All right, now.
JoinExtraordinary: ⁓ huh.
Ryan Foland: You sir talked the same tone or the same monotone the entire time change it up and then finally What are you excited about? Say it with a damn smile and then they do it again and kind of do like live coaching like speed up slow down slow down Okay, loud louder and Forbes it is unbelievable the difference between their first crack and their second crack and then everybody's like wow
JoinExtraordinary: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Ryan Foland: And then they don't practice and then they don't implement it and then they just go back to stone phase, monotone, same speed because it takes practice to actually implement. You don't learn how to sail at the dock. You gotta get out there.
JoinExtraordinary: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right. Stephen Chasing speaking for 10 years, you know, and you've got the fleet, you know, because I don't think I properly framed it up all the sailing analogies. Ryan's also an avid sailor and has a podcast called Good Jibes. ⁓ And so you have a fleet of books. ⁓
Ryan Foland: Yes. Yes. Well, it's a new series called Getting Your Ship Together. I've published Speakership. I'm writing Entrepreneurship, then Leadership. And my wife has agreed if I, when I publish all three, she'll co-author Relationship. You and I are going to write Relationship. And then I've got Salesmanship, Sponsorship, Internship, Mentorship. That's the whole fleet to come.
JoinExtraordinary: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I love it.
Ryan Foland: I'll be cranking out one of these at least one per year, but once I get faster, because you always get better when you do things, maybe like two of them per year, but for the foreseeable future, I'll be helping people get their ships together.
JoinExtraordinary: Hmm. for Nice, get your ships together. I love it. Okay, so a couple of things. I'd be remiss if I didn't mention that you were nominated to be an extraordinary by Coleman. So how do you know Coleman?
Ryan Foland: So Coleman and I have done some awesome work at the evolutionary venture capital firm that he's involved with. And so the team over there and I have connected. I've done a lot of work with accelerators and incubators because my friends, you can have the best idea in the world, the best technology stack, the sexiest looking app. But if you can't articulate it in a way that's compelling and you don't know how to story tell, it's not the best idea. See that I went slow and low volume for dramatic effect anyways. behind the green curtain. So I worked with Coleman and Hannah to come up with a customized three-part program that I call the Red Dot Accelerator for their portfolio of over 40 awesome companies to essentially help them understand how to get their own red dot. Red dot is two-fold. I'm a big TEDx fan and I think red dot, I think that red dot that you stand on, you you think of a target and a dot, there's this thing that you're after. So it's really about helping people understand the storytelling component of what story to tell and then how you actually tell that story and then where to link those stories to moments that matter. So it's a three part series called the Red Dot Accelerator that essentially dives into some of the same shtick that I do but specifically for founders. And there's this interesting element which Coleman is very excited about. I'm an AI power user. But I'm like, I believe in humans. And so I think human centric AI, where it can help you tell stories, can help you discover stories, it can help you with all these things, as long as you are the captain, as long as you are the one that is making the shots. So it's human centric AI, leveraging tools, agents, along with this ability to communicate at your highest level, because Forbes, as soon as you open your mouth, you show people who you are. And if you're raising money,
JoinExtraordinary: Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm.
Ryan Foland: You're building a business. You want to make sure you're sharing your best. So shout out to Coleman. He's he and I have a great relationship and we just get all geeked out and just like this. Like I feel like our conversations or podcasts just not recorded.
JoinExtraordinary: Yeah, for sure. He's he is an awesome dude I met him at venture Cafe Phoenix because he is ⁓ you know bringing some resources into the valley here with Alex chomp and Hannah Savage and you know building that up here in the Phoenix area ⁓ Man dude our time flew by on this episode. We will definitely have to do another one ⁓ but I ask this question to everybody who's come on extraordinary stories and it is if There's one thing our listeners could do today to live more extraordinary like Ryan Folland. What would it be?
Ryan Foland: Well, I might have to make another word up here for this and it's it has to do with extraordinary, but for some reason it also sounds like extra ordinary like extraordinary to me it sounds Extraordinary. So if you truly want to be extraordinary my tip to you is to be extra ordinary and that means being human
JoinExtraordinary: Mm-hmm.
Ryan Foland: Relating on bookshelves talking about what you've done in the past like dude I can't believe that you played hockey like I just want to talk about that now right so people think that People think that others care about their story of success but what they really care about is how they see themselves in your story and We're all ordinary at the end of the day like on a Saturday morning We all have something that we do, but if you're afraid to share that or You're too timid to share that then you're not going to connect with people, you're not going to have as much fun, you're going to just sit there and just hustle and grind and forget this beautiful life that we have a chance to live every single day. So be extra ordinary and don't have crazy high expectations for yourself. And if the first step is too big, then it's, or if the first step is like too intimidating, like take a step back or just breathe at the of the day. That's it. Be extra ordinary to be. Extraordinary. That's what I think.
JoinExtraordinary: I love that man. Yeah, wow. And you can just, you...
Ryan Foland: Because honestly to be extraordinary is kind of intimidating like what makes you extraordinary like ⁓ shit I don't know like I'm just an ordinary guy who's done something ⁓ in a specific path for a decade So other people think it's extraordinary. I know we're short on time, but this might be another thread for another podcast I ask people all the time. What's more important your experience or your expertise and most people think ⁓
JoinExtraordinary: Sure. Yeah.
Ryan Foland: I gotta be extraordinary. It's my expertise. That's what I'm striving for. Bullshit. What's most important is your experience. Because experience is what you've learned. Based on things going wrong. Which makes you human. Which makes you connect. Right? There's a lot... I don't want to say this, but I've probably let in quite a few goals. More so than I would ever want to. But I strive for not letting them in. And if over time I let less in, then that's my expertise.
JoinExtraordinary: You
Ryan Foland: But we thrive and live every day with our experience to be extra ordinary.
JoinExtraordinary: Hmm. Yeah, I totally get it man. If people were to ask me what makes me extraordinary, it's that I'm just Forbes. I'm authentic, I'm curious, and I'm fun. That's ordinary. But it is extraordinary. I love it, dude. Yeah.
Ryan Foland: Yeah. But you've owned that and you're cool to say that and you keep showing up as that and that's what makes it extraordinary. Right? You're not like doing backflips while you're doing things and doing extraordinary crazy things, but you get out there and you consistently show up as you and people want to do business with people and they want to do business with people who they know, like and trust. But it all starts with letting them get to know you. So. Yes.
JoinExtraordinary: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm hmm. You can man we could fill a whole series with these. Yeah, you want that? Yeah, Ryan's always just dropping knowledge. You can read more about Ryan Folland and the get your ship together series at join extraordinary.com. That's J O I N E X T R A O R D I N A R Y.com. Follow us on social media at join extraordinary on all your major platforms. I'm Forbes Shannon Ryan. Thank you so much for being here, man.
Ryan Foland: You chew on that. Thank you. And if you want to find me online and you remember my name, it's very easy. My website is Ryan.Online
JoinExtraordinary: Ryan.online. Nice, dude.
Ryan Foland: That's it, come check it out. Yeah, if you remember me, Ryan, Ryan, who's that guy? What was his last name? Forget about the last name. Just Ryan.Online.
JoinExtraordinary: Brilliant. Awesome. Thanks, Ryan. Thanks for being here.
Ryan Foland: All right. We'll see you soon Forbes. Thanks. Adios.
