WEBVTT
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Welcome to Executive Conversations by the Papers.
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I'm Dwayne Jeffrey.
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In this episode, I'm joined by Mumpreed Hare, the CEO and co-founder of PayFuture.
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We're looking at how Pay Future enables merchants to reach customers in emergent markets and what it takes to make payments work across hard-to-reach regions.
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Thank you very much.
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Glad to be here.
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Perfect.
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Let's start with the basics first.
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For those who know about PayFuture, what is it that your company actually does?
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So Pay Future is a payments company.
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So we help online businesses with payments in emerging markets.
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That's what we do, whether it's payment acceptance, whether it's cross-border money movement.
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We try to ease the pain of emerging markets and make it simple to either accept payments or move money cross-border.
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That's what Pay Future does.
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Perfect.
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When you say emerging markets, right, for everybody that might, you know, have a different view of that, which type of markets are you referring to?
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Good question.
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So the countries that we look at are very much developing countries or close to being a developed country.
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So why are we looking at those kind of countries?
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Very high population.
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So it's uh it's a natural for any company to want to go in there, uh, tap up the local consumer market, the local business market.
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So those are the kind of countries we go into.
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I wouldn't say we're in every single emerging market because we're not, but the countries we are in, we do try to concentrate in highly populated countries that are not necessarily developed like Europe or the US in terms of their infrastructure, especially payments, but are up and coming.
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And that's where that's a sweet spot that we try to hit.
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So that's where we're looking at in terms of emerging markets.
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Fantastic.
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And as a founder, of course, you can build any type of company what you want.
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But what made you decide to go exactly to go build a payments company that's focusing on those emergent?
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What's the gap that you saw that others might not have seen?
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Yeah, I mean, that's what it is.
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I think every business, you're solving a problem, right?
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So every business, every successful business solves a very big problem.
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So for us, what was the actual problem?
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Um, emerging markets are very difficult to navigate.
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There's legislation, regulation, sometimes red tape that you have to um get by.
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So when we look at these kind of pain points and make it easy for any type of business to maybe go into those markets or be successful in those markets, then we're solving a problem for them, you know.
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So that's what our business has always been from the get-go.
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Um, we identified a few countries where we could do that, and we started with very simple things and make it nice and easy.
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So, if, for example, a European or a North American company wanted to go into some of these emerging markets, for example, how can we make it nice and easy for them?
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So, how can we remove all this red tape, this bureaucracy, and make it nice and easy so they can tap into the market?
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That's what the the first steps of pay feature was.
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Fantastic.
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So let's imagine, right, a business wants to go into one of those developed markets, either pay their suppliers or the other way, try to get some and get payments out of customers in those particular markets, like in Nigeria, Pakistan, and Argentina.
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What actually breaks down that transaction?
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So why don't we just reuse the traditional reels are out there?
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What are you doing that's different?
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Yeah, so what we've seen in the um in the past shift, you know, for the last few years is is different where you've got, let's say, for example, stable coins.
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But before that, it was always uh money moved on the Swift network.
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It was always it took a long time to get from point A to point B, especially when you talk about emerging markets, extremely difficult to do that.
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You have to go through various various steps in order to even achieve that uh at the get-go, very expensive.
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Um, so these kind of things are what we're we're looking at, you know.
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So that's the traditional route of money movement, and companies have always been using these routes, right?
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And sometimes they may not even think it's broken because you know, waiting three or four days for them to receive their money may seem normal, but there's loads of other issues that come with it, you know, money getting stuck at intermediary banks.
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Uh that happens uh quite a bit as well, you know.
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You don't really have visibility of where the money is.
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So even though these are the traditional routes and these routes are still being used today, it's not like the whole world shifted already.
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Yeah, it hasn't, you know, these routes are still being used today.
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So people can use them and people are using them, but what we're trying to do is make that shift to make it a lot easier for them.
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There's different ways of moving money now, there's different ways of even accepting money.
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So if we can make it easier for them, then we add value to them.
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So there is traditional routes that people are still using.
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Yeah.
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And especially in those markets, right?
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I I mentioned Nigeria, Pakistan, Argentina, and what I'm thinking about a merchant market.
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Oftentimes I think probably people think about the the volatility that comes with that.
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Currency swings, getting hold of just local dollars and liquidity on the floor, but also speed and cost, uh, as you already mentioned.
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Um, what are some of the pains that companies are trying to solve for and how are you solving that?
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Yeah, it's a very good question again, because what you have to look at is every country has different rules, different regulations that you have to navigate, right?
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Whether you're moving money into a country or whether you're moving money out of the country as well.
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So what it is, you have to look at, you know, you can't just bundle each country together and that and this is a solution for for everything.
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Every country has different rules, different regulations, different compliance that you have to abide by, right?
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So, I mean, you mentioned Argentina.
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Argentina is a very complex market when it comes to moving money out, and we don't uh move money out in Argentina because it is so complex and the tax is so high.
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But countries where we can, you know, that's where we add value, you know.
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Um, we use our own huge liquidity pools that we have, so you don't have to sit your liquidity with different banks, for example, because banks have um are dealing with loads of uh organizations that want to move money into a country as well.
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So if we sit within our own uh liquidity pools there, so even with money movement, which we call left-hand side into a country, it's it's very it's quick, it's very fast.
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We use there's two routes that we use the stablecoin route that we can off-ramp uh with within country where it's allowed.
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We we do that, that's instant.
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You can when you start and when you finish the transaction, you can see it's on blockchain, right?
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It's instantly converted to fear because we're using our liquidity pools, right?
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So these kind of things from that uh side, speed, cost, it's cheaper, it's faster.
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Why would you not use it?
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You know, so this is a solution for move money moving into a country, out of a country where you can do it.
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Where you can do it, it's uh it's a huge selling point.
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You need the right licenses, you need the right compliance, right regulation, and that again, the traditional routes is along, it's fast.
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You have to go through certain um certain points where you have to get that checkpointed.
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But with us, it's it's extremely fast, it's quick.
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Using again, using stable coin, using USDC, for example, to move money out.
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Some companies may not want to touch crypto.
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A lot of companies are like that.
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They don't say, look, you know, it's not our policy is not to touch crypto, no problems.
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Then crypto, uh stablecoin, for example, is used as a rail, you know, instead of Swift.
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So you start with fear, you end with fear, but the the part in the middle is extremely quick, you know.
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So you're saving time.
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So if you save time and money with money movement, um, we're just seeing the start of this, you know.
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So remittance companies, we're seeing a lot of organizations utilizing stable coins that are within the payment space.
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But what we'll see moving uh further down the line is infrastructure.
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If they start utilizing, which it will be a natural process, they start utilizing this, then you'll see a lot more money movement quicker, and that will be fantastic for people's cash flow as well, the balance sheet, you know, getting money quicker.
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So commas can move a lot quicker as well, world commerce.
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So there is a lot of upside with this, you know, there's a lot better ways of doing things than the traditional uh way of banking and moving money.
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Absolutely.
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You already mentioned that stable coins, um, I think currently, it doesn't matter which conference you're at, are probably one of the most talked-about things in payments.
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And I think that there's a lot of hype around it, but also there's actual practicality.
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So, what you mentioned of actually moving that.
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But for those of you who are not as familiar with it, right, what is the real problem that stable coins are actually solving that's different from the older ways of moving money across borders?
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Yeah, good, good question again.
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What the traditional money flow, the the currency, the world currency is US dollar, right?
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So if you move from a let's say exotic currency, you need to move to US dollar.
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A lot of uh currencies are pegged to US dollar as well because it is the world currency.
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Now, with stablecoin, let's say, for example, USDC is pegged to US dollar as well.
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So it's still in line with what's what's happening in the world, right?
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It's it's the world currency.
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So stable coin is basically on the blockchain, it's it's um normally pegged against US dollar, but every country has their own stable coin as well, so they may have something pegged to their local currency uh as well.
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But mainly the majority of the time it's US dollar-based that uh good people are using globally, and what it is uh like I mentioned before, it's on the blockchain, so you can see it's visible.
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You can see when it started, where it finished.
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So this is the simplicity of stablecoin.
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Yeah, it's a buzzword, but it's a buzzword for a reason.
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People need to use it, it needs to be utilized.
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But I think what I just mentioned before is that you don't just if you don't want to use crypto, that's fine.
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There's other ways of utilizing it in a very productive manner as well.
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Um, so that's basically the the very simple um uh low-down version of just what stable coin is.
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Absolutely.
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So I think critics might say, why don't we just speed up current existing platforms?
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Because the money's already moving there.
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Um, oftentimes, indeed, it might take two or three days, but why don't we focus on speeding that up instead of going and using a whole new platform?
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What would you say against that?
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Um what do you mean?
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So, like let's look at the Swift Rails, right?
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You're like, or in the UK, for instance, you have FastNet, in Europe, you have SEPA.
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All of those are instant ways of moving money.
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Yes.
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But then indeed in those markets that you're mentioning, uh, it might still take a long time because some of those local networks don't exist, but they are fiat in, fiat out, right?
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No need for a stable coin in the European market, in the UK markets.
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Um, but we're now utilizing an entire new network, an entire new stable coin to actually move that money in, well, sort of like that cent, which right before in fiat stable coins and fiat back out.
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You know, a lot of critics might say, hey, why don't we just speed up the existing networks?
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Why don't we speed up Swift?
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Why don't we speed up why don't we duplicate what's in the UK and SEPA and bring those into those other markets?
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Yeah, I mean that they're they're right as well, but you can't do it, it's impossible, right?
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So SEPA is SEPA like faster payments is a local UK payment option, right?
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That's that's what it is.
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Now, if let's say, for example, India wanted to have their own, they have imps.
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You know, they have the it's the the system is is trying to do the same thing, but the two completely different systems, right?
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So, how to actually merge them together is why we're talking about stable coins, you know.
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So these are very good systems.
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Separ is a fantastic system, right?
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Faster payments is is a very good system, but like I mentioned, that's why we're focusing on the emerging markets.
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Sometimes they may not even have these systems, you see.
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Um, so the it bridges the gap between all these different systems.
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That's that's what it is.
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You can't, you know, it's like saying, well, we had euro here in Europe, but the UK said, you know, we want to stay with pound, for example.
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Now, would it have been easier for everyone to use euro globally?
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Everyone have one currency, yes, but it's not realistic, is it?
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So it's the same with the payment systems as well.
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Although that theory is good, the practicality of it is not there, it's not gonna happen.
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So, how do we use that theory and get it into practical?
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And that's where this comes in, you know.
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This is like answering that question.
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So the critics are sort of I wouldn't say the critics, they have good theory, but in reality it's not it's not doable.
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Okay, fantastic.
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Um whenever you move money across borders, right?
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Like it it goes from one country, lands into another, um, and like you already mentioned, there's several networks involved that might uh use uh UK faster payments or uh a separate transaction and then it goes on to another Rails.
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How does Pay Future actually decide which one given payment takes and why that that matters?
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A good it depend number one, it depends on the country, it depends on what you can do, what you can't do.
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Um, we only go into countries where we can do certain things, right?
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Some some countries they don't like crypto, you know, they don't have any legislation for crypto.
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Okay, no, no, no issues.
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Um, for example, India with the FIU uh registration for digital assets, you can on-ramp, off-ramp.
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You know, that is something that they've put in place.
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Very forward-thinking governments like that, they have these uh kind of ideas in place, um, but they need to make sure that their currency is is protected, um, they need visibility on everything as well.
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So, look, from from our point of view, it's like we have to you go to every country and and look at well, what problem are we solving?
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Number one, can we actually solve that problem?
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You're right, moving money into the country is is very straightforward.
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You know, a lot of people can can actually do that, but how do we do that faster, quicker, cheaper?
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Right?
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That's and the other way is like, okay, if we're trying to move them if move money out of the country, number one, can we actually do it?
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Uh number two, what legislation, regulation can we use in order to do that?
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And if we do that, how can we make it fast?
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How can we make it quicker?
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How can we say to the merchant, you know what, you'll get your money in this much time, you know, instead of waiting 30 days for your money.
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You know, this is something that we'll implement.
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So it's us working as a team, working within PayPal to say to say, look, this is the issues that we have, what we're solving, what we're solving for.
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Every product that we have, every solution that we have, it has to be solving a problem.
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Otherwise, we don't actually do it.
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You know, there's been many, many good, good ideas that we've put to one side because they're not solving a problem.
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So this is what we look at in terms, and this is what how we get to our solution, basically.
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There may be some countries where we don't come to a solution fine, then we don't do those countries, you know.
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So this is our way of working, this is how we we come up with this.
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Absolutely.
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And of course, there are some of the largest networks in the world um who are all spending billions of dollars on trying to essentially build what you're currently building, right?
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What would you say to those who are either investing in that or trying to build those versus what you're building?
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Why are you more effective or why would your solution outpace them?
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Yeah, and very good again.
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This is a very important question.
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For us, look, we're completely bootstrapped.
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You know, we we started this organization.
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Uh, me and my founder, Zaki Farouk, um, we founded it on the basis of we're just solving a problem.
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Now we had to basically, you know, the simple things of getting servers, etc., this is what we had to do at the beginning with our own money, not huge amounts of money.
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But making a very simple system and making it work for our first merchants and building on top of that is what we've done from the get-go.
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Um, and we've managed to scale that up without any internal, uh, external, sorry, investment.
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You know, whatever we um got in terms of profit we put back into our organization.
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Now, why did we do that and what outcome did it come, did we come to?
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Is that because we had to be very conservative of where we spend our money, we we made sure we spent spend it wisely, you know.
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Um, but you don't need billions and billions of dollars to solve a problem.
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You know, you don't need that.
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What you need, what if somebody's building up for US, Europe, or globally, fair enough.
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But to navigate certain countries, like for example, India, to navigate to have a product, let's say, uh in the US and bring it to India and expecting it to work is is this not going to happen, right?
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Because you it is a completely different country.
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The culture is completely different, the people are different, the local laws, regulations, how the working style is is completely different.
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So our uniqueness comes in that we know how to navigate the local landscape.
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You know, we I'm not born and brought up in a country like India, but I understand the country.
00:18:56.880 --> 00:19:08.319
We understand countries like Egypt, we understand countries like Nigeria, we've been there ourselves, you know, we've visited these countries, we understand the local landscape, what can be done, what can't be done.
00:19:08.480 --> 00:19:12.480
And that's you can't just throw money at that problem, you know.
00:19:12.720 --> 00:19:26.079
We've always been competing against organizations that have had much, much more money than us, but we've been competing quite successfully as well, and we have been successful because of the ethos of just solving a problem.
00:19:26.160 --> 00:19:34.160
Yeah, you know, our solution works, our product set is good, but you just make it nice and simple, you know.
00:19:34.319 --> 00:19:44.799
Sometimes uh a lot of organizations you've seen in the last maybe at least five years where money has been spent, you know, a lot of uh money has been spent.
00:19:44.880 --> 00:19:52.319
Let's say, for example, we're scaling up and uh getting a lot of people, then a lot of people let go at the same time as well, right?
00:19:52.640 --> 00:19:58.720
So I'm not saying one way of working is correct and one way is not correct, you know.
00:19:58.880 --> 00:20:08.160
Um I can only talk about what has been successful for us, and um that's not to say that we may not go that route in the future as well.
00:20:08.319 --> 00:20:19.279
So what we've done so far up to this stage, I'm proud of, you know, and we are competing against these guys for sure, but um that's part of the challenge, isn't it?
00:20:19.519 --> 00:20:20.559
Yeah, absolutely.
00:20:20.720 --> 00:20:38.640
So you you just mentioned skill, and I think that's probably uh a topic that I want to dive in a little bit more because just like I mentioned, there's multiple networks, multiple companies as well trying to build that and already processing billions of dollars, um, but then having large capital gaps, have raised a lot of money.
00:20:39.039 --> 00:20:41.039
You've done it all with your own money.
00:20:41.200 --> 00:20:50.880
Um and the truth of the matter is that skill oftentimes only wins when you have better pricing, more leverage or more resilience.
00:20:51.039 --> 00:20:58.160
However, in this case, it doesn't seem to be like that because you you're using tenacity, grid, local knowledge as well.
00:20:58.400 --> 00:21:04.960
What do you think sets B future apart from all of those other companies who have already been on this journey or continue to be on this journey?
00:21:05.279 --> 00:21:14.799
Yeah, look, we don't look at other other organizations, if they're doing this, we don't really look at them and see, you know, what you know, look at them as competition.
00:21:14.960 --> 00:21:17.680
We have to look at ourselves and see what we can do better.
00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:22.400
We have our whole business model is built on the blue ocean strategy.
00:21:22.720 --> 00:21:28.480
Now, the blue ocean strategy is basically you have the red ocean.
00:21:28.640 --> 00:21:37.920
The red ocean is where you have sharks fighting over the same piece of meat, and um, you know, you're competing on price, for example.
00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:49.359
You know, that's that's not a good race to the to the top, or you have a completely separate ocean for yourself as a shark, and you have the whole ocean to to feed off.
00:21:49.519 --> 00:21:52.160
So our our ethos has always been the blue ocean.
00:21:52.240 --> 00:21:53.599
How can we be blue ocean?
00:21:53.680 --> 00:21:59.759
How can we be um different if we can't spend you know hundreds of millions or even billions?
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:03.599
Of dollars, that's not we shouldn't even be looking at stuff like that.
00:22:03.680 --> 00:22:08.079
You know, what can we do within our realm to make us successful?
00:22:08.240 --> 00:22:17.200
So we've always had this the visos, ethos, but what it is, we we haven't like gone crazy in terms of the number of people that we have as well.
00:22:17.359 --> 00:22:27.359
We still have a relevantly small team, you know, and they um look at their departments and make sure that you know we have simple things that just work, you know.
00:22:27.519 --> 00:22:38.480
When you get larger and larger, when you're talking about scale, scale is often lost when you can't really see what the person on uh on the actual floor is is is doing day in day out.
00:22:38.559 --> 00:22:43.599
You have to make sure that they're doing their job as maximum level as possible.
00:22:43.759 --> 00:22:50.559
You know, this is something that when you have small amounts of people, you can see you know what the output is from each individual.
00:22:50.720 --> 00:22:56.400
And an organization like us that hasn't got the these kind of funds, those guys are very important.
00:22:56.559 --> 00:22:57.680
A team is very important.
00:22:57.839 --> 00:23:00.720
You don't get to where you get to without the team, you know.
00:23:00.799 --> 00:23:08.240
The the guys around you have to be good, and that's what we got uh at the moment, and yeah, this is up to this point.
00:23:08.319 --> 00:23:12.319
This is what has led to us being where we are now.
00:23:12.559 --> 00:23:20.960
Um, and scaling always starts with the people, always starts with very, very good people.
00:23:21.119 --> 00:23:24.319
If you have good people, it becomes easier to scale.
00:23:24.480 --> 00:23:35.359
Now, the hiring process is where you every company makes mistakes, every company uh also gets champions in terms of their team in order to scale up as well.
00:23:35.440 --> 00:23:38.480
So it comes with people, scaling comes with with uh people.
00:23:38.559 --> 00:23:46.079
You know, you have your systems, you have your process, fair enough, but it's the people is what drives that, and that that's that's important.
00:23:46.240 --> 00:23:49.680
But we don't we can't compete against you know having 5,000 people.
00:23:49.759 --> 00:23:51.359
This is not something that we can do.
00:23:51.599 --> 00:23:54.799
So for us, we have to look at it as a completely different approach.
00:23:55.039 --> 00:23:55.599
Absolutely.
00:23:55.759 --> 00:24:14.480
I think especially the well, a couple of things that you mentioned, the blue ocean strategy, which I think is um probably one of the best strategies that you can deploy, especially in markets where it's oversaturated, there's too much competition, this compet competition on based on pricing, um, and also a lot of legacy infrastructure, right?
00:24:14.559 --> 00:24:23.599
Like a lot of the core builds you're solving, um, there's legacy infrastructure in place which are actually orchestrating it around different routes and going into those markets.
00:24:23.759 --> 00:24:29.920
But if you would describe that blue ocean, what is that blue ocean that you see that others might not?
00:24:31.119 --> 00:24:31.839
Good question.
00:24:31.920 --> 00:24:40.559
The a blue ocean always starts with an idea of what we can do, you know, what is being used at the moment, what are people doing?
00:24:40.720 --> 00:24:42.240
For example, you mentioned legacy.
00:24:42.480 --> 00:24:48.480
Legacy for for anyone trying to do a blue ocean strategy, legacy is a very important word.
00:24:48.559 --> 00:24:55.599
If somebody uh is working on legacy products, um, or Swift is a perfect example of that, right?
00:24:55.759 --> 00:25:08.640
If you look at that, that's easy to build your blue ocean from what's legacy, what we can make can we make that is more quicker, faster, what adds value, you know, so we build our own uh ocean there.
00:25:09.039 --> 00:25:13.440
But not just blue ocean from the beginning, a blue ocean needs to keep evolving as well.
00:25:13.599 --> 00:25:17.680
You can't just have blue ocean and then you know think, okay, that's it then.
00:25:17.759 --> 00:25:20.559
You know, the other people will start doing what you're doing as well.
00:25:20.640 --> 00:25:25.680
So the blue ocean needs to keep evolving, it needs to keep uh moving faster.
00:25:25.920 --> 00:25:30.000
We as an organization, we were technology always, always uh before.
00:25:30.160 --> 00:25:40.640
Then we we uh got our EMI out of Malta, so we we involved in the uh the flow of funds, and our blue ocean changed then because we can do something different.
00:25:40.799 --> 00:25:45.279
Now we have you know the VASP licenses and licenses in Canada, etc.
00:25:45.519 --> 00:25:51.279
So our blue ocean changes as well because you have more leverage to do certain uh different things as well.
00:25:51.359 --> 00:25:53.119
So you have it has to keep evolving.
00:25:53.200 --> 00:25:56.000
You can't just have one blue ocean and think that's it.
00:25:56.319 --> 00:26:00.079
Uh when we first started, stablecoin wasn't really a thing, you know.
00:26:00.160 --> 00:26:09.200
It's only come in probably more in the last uh five years from the start, and now it's obviously more prevalent now.
00:26:09.519 --> 00:26:14.000
But you have to look at that and you have to then evolve, you have to change as well.
00:26:15.359 --> 00:26:18.559
Payments is fast, so you have to be fast with it.
00:26:18.880 --> 00:26:20.880
So that that's how we uh we do it here.
00:26:21.200 --> 00:26:21.759
Absolutely.
00:26:22.400 --> 00:26:27.039
The other thing that you mentioned was the fact that you keep your well, you have a s relatively small team.
00:26:27.119 --> 00:26:34.640
I won't say a small team, a relatively small team, um, that you're working efficient, and you know exactly which market you're targeting.
00:26:35.440 --> 00:26:37.119
In this age of AI, right?
00:26:37.200 --> 00:26:43.359
Like you we mentioned, we talked about companies who maybe have 5,000 people or 10,000 people that you're competing with.
00:26:43.759 --> 00:26:54.240
Are you leveraging AI right now to make your team even more efficient or to execute faster or to maybe generate more code so that you can build more integrations with others?
00:26:55.200 --> 00:26:56.480
Yeah, the answer is yes.
00:26:56.640 --> 00:27:00.960
I think if any organization is not using AI, I don't know what they're doing basically.
00:27:01.200 --> 00:27:07.440
You know, it's in terms of your technology, in terms of your development, I think it has to be used.
00:27:07.680 --> 00:27:13.920
Now, whether it's 100% perfect all the time, I don't know, I don't think so.
00:27:14.160 --> 00:27:18.240
Um, but it's okay, at least it saves you a lot of time, you know.
00:27:18.319 --> 00:27:21.519
So you have to keep you have to keep utilizing it.
00:27:21.599 --> 00:27:25.359
I think we spoke outside and we were saying if it's binary, then it's good.
00:27:25.440 --> 00:27:28.319
It needs it needs to be utilized, it should be utilized.
00:27:28.480 --> 00:27:34.880
We I even at the senior leadership team meetings as well, I emphasise that use AI.
00:27:34.960 --> 00:27:35.359
Why not?
00:27:35.440 --> 00:27:38.319
It's there for you to use, use it, it's fine.
00:27:38.480 --> 00:27:46.960
But if you're asking AI for an opinion or you know, asking for something similar, then I don't think it's really at that level.
00:27:47.200 --> 00:27:48.880
This is what I think as well.
00:27:49.039 --> 00:27:54.079
Otherwise, you know, everyone would have created a uh a unicorn business in a few months, right?
00:27:54.480 --> 00:28:10.720
So where it's very black and white, where you can get things done, and you know, whether that's finance, whether that's you know, Excel sheets, whether that's you know, making sure that you your reconciliation, whether that's a tech guys, that 100% it has to be utilized.
00:28:10.799 --> 00:28:12.000
We do utilize it.
00:28:12.160 --> 00:28:20.319
Um, but when you're asking it to do like a report for you and stuff, and you know it's just all AI, you know, it's it's I don't know.
00:28:20.559 --> 00:28:24.160
You know, I'm I'm more it's good.
00:28:24.319 --> 00:28:33.119
Just util even Do you feel that your team is more efficient because they use AI and that you can therefore scale farther without having to hire additional people?
00:28:33.440 --> 00:28:43.359
Yeah, I mean some of the products that we've utilized AI and the speed at which we've we've got it has been unbelievable in the last in the last few months actually.
00:28:43.599 --> 00:28:49.599
So I have seen with my own eyes the benefit of it, but it's not just me doing it.
00:28:49.680 --> 00:28:52.559
I wouldn't say I'm an AI specialist, it's a team, you know.
00:28:52.640 --> 00:29:04.880
Some of the guys are really, you know, they're they're really into it, really study it hard, and they're the ones that are utilizing it, they're presented to somebody like myself, and you know, it's it's hard not to get impressed by it, right?
00:29:05.039 --> 00:29:09.519
Um, so even I I I tried to say to everyone, utilise it in everything.
00:29:09.599 --> 00:29:11.599
Just just do it, just try it out, you know.
00:29:11.759 --> 00:29:15.920
It may not even be correct, you know, it may not be correct, but it's okay.
00:29:16.079 --> 00:29:18.000
If it saves you time and stuff, why not?
00:29:18.160 --> 00:29:19.759
Just just just try it out, you know.
00:29:19.920 --> 00:29:23.039
It's it's not perfect, it will it will keep getting better though, will it?
00:29:23.200 --> 00:29:31.359
So I want to go back into a topic that of course, as pay future, you're probably very future optimistic as well.
00:29:31.519 --> 00:29:40.960
Um but some of the markets that you're in have very strict capital controls, uh, precisely to stop money and especially dollars leaving the country.
00:29:41.119 --> 00:29:42.799
You already mentioned that a couple of times.
00:29:42.960 --> 00:29:55.200
Um, and a product whose whole point is actually to get easier access to digital dollars is basically in direct tension with those regulators who are trying to prevent those.
00:29:55.440 --> 00:29:59.839
Um, how is this not something that a central bank can eventually shut down?
00:30:00.559 --> 00:30:01.039
Good question.
00:30:01.119 --> 00:30:03.200
Like I mentioned Argentina before.
00:30:03.359 --> 00:30:10.559
Um, so these kind of countries where there are hugely strict capital control, we try not to go in there.
00:30:10.640 --> 00:30:12.240
You know, that's not a country for us.
00:30:12.319 --> 00:30:16.559
That's we can't, that's not a solution that we can we can do there, you know.
00:30:16.640 --> 00:30:22.400
This the it will get shut down if you try to do anything against the rules, against the regulation.
00:30:22.640 --> 00:30:26.559
So we only go into countries where we can do something, you know.
00:30:26.799 --> 00:30:37.440
Um some countries are are very forward-thinking in terms of their their money movement because you know currency fluctuations happen for um a lot of reasons.
00:30:37.599 --> 00:30:43.440
But one of those reasons is is money movement, you know, that happens that there's no visibility on as well.
00:30:43.599 --> 00:30:50.640
So they have to put those controls in place to make sure that they protect their own country to protect their local currency.
00:30:50.880 --> 00:31:00.319
But where there is a regulation, where there some of these countries' emerging markets are opening up, that's where we are, you know, that's where we are.
00:31:00.640 --> 00:31:06.160
So, and you can we can see that countries will open up to it as well.
00:31:06.240 --> 00:31:16.079
You know, when they can see certain countries opening up to it and be successful, then you'll see other countries opening up to it as well, where it won't affect their the local currency.
00:31:16.240 --> 00:31:24.960
So this is something for each government, obviously it's central bank, but a lot of countries are quite forward-thinking with this sort of thing now.
00:31:25.039 --> 00:31:30.240
You know, you'll be surprised as to the last five years what changes have actually taken place.
00:31:30.400 --> 00:31:37.039
You know, a lot of uh countries are opening up uh regulation in terms of like stablecoin.
00:31:37.119 --> 00:31:46.319
Uh, for example, I mentioned um India uh with the FIU, even like uh other countries as well are opening up to stable coin as well.
00:31:46.559 --> 00:31:54.000
So, where we can, you know, maybe utilize fiat, where we can maybe utilize stable coin, we we can do it.
00:31:54.160 --> 00:31:55.839
Where we can't, then what can you do?
00:31:55.920 --> 00:31:57.599
There's no solution, really, at that point.
00:31:57.680 --> 00:32:00.720
So we have to hold our hands up to say, look, it's not ready yet.
00:32:00.799 --> 00:32:07.039
Even though the merchants, the businesses all ask for these countries, you say, Look, we can't, that's not a country we can do, unfortunately.
00:32:07.200 --> 00:32:11.039
So, what we can do, we do what we can't do, we have to stay away from.
00:32:11.440 --> 00:32:12.000
Absolutely.
00:32:12.480 --> 00:32:25.359
So when we look at in the sort of uh where payments is headed, where merchants are headed, a lot of these uh new emerging markets actually have a lot of great potential and upside as well.
00:32:25.599 --> 00:32:42.960
Um but maybe from your perspective, as you're dealing with your clients, as you're dealing with the merchants that you're working with, um what are you seeing that others might not be seeing as far as where global cross-border uh e-commerce and and and this overall commerce is headed?
00:32:43.920 --> 00:32:58.559
Yeah, because what it is like it's commerce is within you have within country commerce, you know, where production sells, whether it's a service, whether it's a product that sells within their ecosystem.
00:32:58.880 --> 00:33:08.640
But a lot of the times those people who are creating those services, creating those products, etc., they want to sell to out different countries outside, right?
00:33:08.960 --> 00:33:12.400
Now the challenge then happens is that how do they get paid?
00:33:12.559 --> 00:33:20.000
You know, what is the the process of being paid uh in a regulated compliant manner, right?
00:33:20.160 --> 00:33:23.039
So we can see that that's an issue, right?
00:33:23.200 --> 00:33:29.359
Not because we do loads of you know, loads of analysis on this, uh etc.
00:33:29.599 --> 00:33:30.799
That that's not the case.
00:33:30.960 --> 00:33:38.559
It's simply what businesses tell us that they need the requirement is um within country uh as well.
00:33:38.799 --> 00:33:46.640
Global commerce is increasing and it will keep increasing because we're solving that problem of the money movement, you know.
00:33:46.960 --> 00:33:58.960
Now, when you look at uh social apps, when you look at the internet, it's all global, but money isn't, you know, so it's still there's still borders, but people want to sell to everyone, you know.
00:33:59.200 --> 00:34:01.200
So how do you solve that problem?
00:34:01.440 --> 00:34:05.759
This is still something that needs to get solved in certain countries.
00:34:05.920 --> 00:34:16.000
Um, you know, like a country like Africa, they're they're seeing a massive boom in certain countries there because money's able to move a lot freer now.
00:34:16.079 --> 00:34:17.360
You see, you're seeing this, you know.
00:34:17.599 --> 00:34:23.360
A lot of countries are really um getting uh bigger in terms of their economies and stuff.
00:34:23.440 --> 00:34:27.760
But one of the prime uh countries we talk about here is Nigeria.
00:34:27.920 --> 00:34:35.519
You know, Nigeria is the economy is doing very, very well because you know they're able to um, you know, people able to pay, etc.
00:34:35.760 --> 00:34:36.320
You know.
00:34:36.559 --> 00:34:40.800
Um, so this is still an issue, right?
00:34:40.880 --> 00:34:43.760
But if it wasn't an issue, then we wouldn't have a business, right?
00:34:44.079 --> 00:34:50.800
So this is what we try to to solve for, and I mentioned so many times solving a problem, solving a problem.
00:34:50.960 --> 00:34:53.039
But this it that's what it is.
00:34:53.199 --> 00:34:59.199
This is still an issue which we're trying to make sure that we can help with, right?
00:34:59.280 --> 00:35:03.039
So that's in terms of insights, yeah, there's loads of buzzwords.
00:35:03.119 --> 00:35:15.199
You mentioned AI, you know, there was more uh AI buzzwords before last year, but it's quite simple issues that we're trying to alleviate, you know, with these are not complex.
00:35:15.679 --> 00:35:20.000
So that's a kind of we're we're seeing like a trend of of this.
00:35:20.320 --> 00:35:27.920
Every comp uh country is trying to do their best in terms of getting more uh business from different countries, etc.
00:35:28.239 --> 00:35:31.599
So, in order to do that, borders will have to open up.
00:35:31.679 --> 00:35:35.199
You know, that's how you get global commerce to where it needs to get to.
00:35:35.440 --> 00:35:36.079
Absolutely.
00:35:36.239 --> 00:35:39.760
So, as my final question, I always ask my guests, right?
00:35:39.920 --> 00:35:46.000
Um, there's a lot of future optimistic things that we look forward to.
00:35:46.079 --> 00:35:50.480
Indeed, it doesn't matter if it's AI, agenda commerce, um, all of those different things.
00:35:50.639 --> 00:35:52.239
Stable coins, fantastic.
00:35:52.480 --> 00:35:55.119
However, sometimes we have roadblocks as well.
00:35:55.280 --> 00:36:10.159
So, what is one of those roadblocks that could be compliance related, regulatory related, stable coins acceptance, you name it, that you believe that we need to resolve so that we can maybe encourage more global commerce or that pay future can continue to grow?
00:36:10.480 --> 00:36:14.559
Yeah, uh I mentioned it before it's compliance, it's regulation, right?
00:36:14.639 --> 00:36:15.519
But that will come.
00:36:15.760 --> 00:36:16.480
That will come.
00:36:16.960 --> 00:36:21.920
We even do go to certain countries, we speak to central banks ourselves.
00:36:22.079 --> 00:36:30.960
You know, we speak about this, we speak about how it can benefit their their country, how you know getting certain regulation legislation can help them.
00:36:31.039 --> 00:36:31.519
We have that.
00:36:31.599 --> 00:36:33.119
I have the conversations.
00:36:33.440 --> 00:36:43.920
Um my co-founder has those conversations uh with them as well, and they're open to listen to you, you know, because who doesn't want more business for their country?
00:36:44.079 --> 00:36:46.239
Who doesn't want their country to do better?
00:36:46.480 --> 00:36:47.679
Everyone wants that.
00:36:47.920 --> 00:36:52.159
So that's a that's you're gonna see this, this trend will change, you know.
00:36:52.239 --> 00:37:00.559
This trend of, you know, before uh I mean, even three years ago, even maybe two years ago, the word crypto was like, oh, not sure about that.
00:37:00.639 --> 00:37:07.039
You know, it's you know, it it's it with the Genius Act, everything changed, you know, last year.
00:37:07.199 --> 00:37:10.480
It was you know, opened up a lot of opportunity.
00:37:11.039 --> 00:37:14.000
And that will be the next trend, you see.
00:37:14.159 --> 00:37:20.719
A lot of countries will open up to this um to make sure that they do the best for their countries.
00:37:21.039 --> 00:37:29.920
So this was from my point of view, I don't know too much about how AI is gonna do, or you know, whether our rockets are gonna go to Mars, etc.
00:37:30.159 --> 00:37:31.679
That's not for me to talk about.
00:37:31.840 --> 00:37:38.800
I can all only talk about what interests me and what we're the uh doing is like and that will open up.
00:37:38.960 --> 00:37:42.960
Certain countries will open up more to to cross-border money movement.
00:37:43.199 --> 00:37:45.360
You need speed, you need it to be fast.
00:37:45.679 --> 00:37:49.920
Nobody wants to wait, you know, months for their their money, right?
00:37:50.000 --> 00:37:55.679
The cash flow is very important for their them, uh, their economies, for businesses to do better.
00:37:56.000 --> 00:38:00.880
Entrepreneurs are what makes a country be successful or not successful, you know.
00:38:00.960 --> 00:38:06.079
So if you can help them as much as possible, that trend will will definitely happen.
00:38:06.159 --> 00:38:07.360
It's a good trend as well.
00:38:07.519 --> 00:38:09.199
It will help uh organizations.
00:38:09.360 --> 00:38:16.639
Look, we only go into difficult countries, you know, where we can try to look at it and and try to solve a problem.
00:38:16.719 --> 00:38:18.159
That's what we actually do.
00:38:18.320 --> 00:38:20.320
So this and it will continue.
00:38:20.400 --> 00:38:21.440
So we'll continue that.
00:38:21.519 --> 00:38:28.159
That that is going to be a trend, but we'll continue to make sure that we offer benefit to businesses that try to go into these countries.
00:38:28.320 --> 00:38:28.880
Perfect.
00:38:28.960 --> 00:38:32.000
Well, thank you very much for joining us here at Executive Conversation.
00:38:32.079 --> 00:38:33.519
It was a pleasure to speak to you.
00:38:33.760 --> 00:38:34.320
See you soon.
00:38:34.559 --> 00:38:35.760
Brilliant, thank you very much.
00:38:35.920 --> 00:38:36.320
Thank you.
00:38:36.719 --> 00:38:41.119
If you like this episode, hit like, follow, and subscribe for more.
00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:02.720
Welcome to Executive Conversations by the Papers.
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I'm Dwayne Jeffrey.
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In this episode, I'm joined by Mumpreed Hare, the CEO and co-founder of PayFuture.
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We're looking at how Pay Future enables merchants to reach customers in emergent markets and what it takes to make payments work across hard-to-reach regions.
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Thank you very much.
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Glad to be here.
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Perfect.
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Let's start with the basics first.
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For those who know about PayFuture, what is it that your company actually does?
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So Pay Future is a payments company.
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So we help online businesses with payments in emerging markets.
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That's what we do, whether it's payment acceptance, whether it's cross-border money movement.
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We try to ease the pain of emerging markets and make it simple to either accept payments or move money cross-border.
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That's what Pay Future does.
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Perfect.
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When you say emerging markets, right, for everybody that might, you know, have a different view of that, which type of markets are you referring to?
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Good question.
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So the countries that we look at are very much developing countries or close to being a developed country.
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So why are we looking at those kind of countries?
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Very high population.
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So it's uh it's a natural for any company to want to go in there, uh, tap up the local consumer market, the local business market.
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So those are the kind of countries we go into.
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I wouldn't say we're in every single emerging market because we're not, but the countries we are in, we do try to concentrate in highly populated countries that are not necessarily developed like Europe or the US in terms of their infrastructure, especially payments, but are up and coming.
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And that's where that's a sweet spot that we try to hit.
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So that's where we're looking at in terms of emerging markets.
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Fantastic.
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And as a founder, of course, you can build any type of company what you want.
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But what made you decide to go exactly to go build a payments company that's focusing on those emergent?
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What's the gap that you saw that others might not have seen?
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Yeah, I mean, that's what it is.
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I think every business, you're solving a problem, right?
00:02:09.120 --> 00:02:13.039
So every business, every successful business solves a very big problem.
00:02:13.280 --> 00:02:15.599
So for us, what was the actual problem?
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Um, emerging markets are very difficult to navigate.
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There's legislation, regulation, sometimes red tape that you have to um get by.
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So when we look at these kind of pain points and make it easy for any type of business to maybe go into those markets or be successful in those markets, then we're solving a problem for them, you know.
00:02:39.599 --> 00:02:42.719
So that's what our business has always been from the get-go.
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Um, we identified a few countries where we could do that, and we started with very simple things and make it nice and easy.
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So, if, for example, a European or a North American company wanted to go into some of these emerging markets, for example, how can we make it nice and easy for them?
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So, how can we remove all this red tape, this bureaucracy, and make it nice and easy so they can tap into the market?
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That's what the the first steps of pay feature was.
00:03:14.479 --> 00:03:15.120
Fantastic.
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So let's imagine, right, a business wants to go into one of those developed markets, either pay their suppliers or the other way, try to get some and get payments out of customers in those particular markets, like in Nigeria, Pakistan, and Argentina.
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What actually breaks down that transaction?
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So why don't we just reuse the traditional reels are out there?
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What are you doing that's different?
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Yeah, so what we've seen in the um in the past shift, you know, for the last few years is is different where you've got, let's say, for example, stable coins.
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But before that, it was always uh money moved on the Swift network.
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It was always it took a long time to get from point A to point B, especially when you talk about emerging markets, extremely difficult to do that.
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You have to go through various various steps in order to even achieve that uh at the get-go, very expensive.
00:04:12.080 --> 00:04:15.919
Um, so these kind of things are what we're we're looking at, you know.
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So that's the traditional route of money movement, and companies have always been using these routes, right?
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And sometimes they may not even think it's broken because you know, waiting three or four days for them to receive their money may seem normal, but there's loads of other issues that come with it, you know, money getting stuck at intermediary banks.
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Uh that happens uh quite a bit as well, you know.
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You don't really have visibility of where the money is.
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So even though these are the traditional routes and these routes are still being used today, it's not like the whole world shifted already.
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Yeah, it hasn't, you know, these routes are still being used today.
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So people can use them and people are using them, but what we're trying to do is make that shift to make it a lot easier for them.
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There's different ways of moving money now, there's different ways of even accepting money.
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So if we can make it easier for them, then we add value to them.
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So there is traditional routes that people are still using.
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Yeah.
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And especially in those markets, right?
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I I mentioned Nigeria, Pakistan, Argentina, and what I'm thinking about a merchant market.
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Oftentimes I think probably people think about the the volatility that comes with that.
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Currency swings, getting hold of just local dollars and liquidity on the floor, but also speed and cost, uh, as you already mentioned.
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Um, what are some of the pains that companies are trying to solve for and how are you solving that?
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Yeah, it's a very good question again, because what you have to look at is every country has different rules, different regulations that you have to navigate, right?
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Whether you're moving money into a country or whether you're moving money out of the country as well.
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So what it is, you have to look at, you know, you can't just bundle each country together and that and this is a solution for for everything.
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Every country has different rules, different regulations, different compliance that you have to abide by, right?
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So, I mean, you mentioned Argentina.
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Argentina is a very complex market when it comes to moving money out, and we don't uh move money out in Argentina because it is so complex and the tax is so high.
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But countries where we can, you know, that's where we add value, you know.
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Um, we use our own huge liquidity pools that we have, so you don't have to sit your liquidity with different banks, for example, because banks have um are dealing with loads of uh organizations that want to move money into a country as well.
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So if we sit within our own uh liquidity pools there, so even with money movement, which we call left-hand side into a country, it's it's very it's quick, it's very fast.
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We use there's two routes that we use the stablecoin route that we can off-ramp uh with within country where it's allowed.
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We we do that, that's instant.
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You can when you start and when you finish the transaction, you can see it's on blockchain, right?
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It's instantly converted to fear because we're using our liquidity pools, right?
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So these kind of things from that uh side, speed, cost, it's cheaper, it's faster.
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Why would you not use it?
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You know, so this is a solution for move money moving into a country, out of a country where you can do it.
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Where you can do it, it's uh it's a huge selling point.
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You need the right licenses, you need the right compliance, right regulation, and that again, the traditional routes is along, it's fast.
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You have to go through certain um certain points where you have to get that checkpointed.
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But with us, it's it's extremely fast, it's quick.
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Using again, using stable coin, using USDC, for example, to move money out.
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Some companies may not want to touch crypto.
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A lot of companies are like that.
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They don't say, look, you know, it's not our policy is not to touch crypto, no problems.
00:08:10.079 --> 00:08:16.240
Then crypto, uh stablecoin, for example, is used as a rail, you know, instead of Swift.
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So you start with fear, you end with fear, but the the part in the middle is extremely quick, you know.
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So you're saving time.
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So if you save time and money with money movement, um, we're just seeing the start of this, you know.
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So remittance companies, we're seeing a lot of organizations utilizing stable coins that are within the payment space.
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But what we'll see moving uh further down the line is infrastructure.
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If they start utilizing, which it will be a natural process, they start utilizing this, then you'll see a lot more money movement quicker, and that will be fantastic for people's cash flow as well, the balance sheet, you know, getting money quicker.
00:08:58.480 --> 00:09:01.759
So commas can move a lot quicker as well, world commerce.
00:09:01.919 --> 00:09:12.799
So there is a lot of upside with this, you know, there's a lot better ways of doing things than the traditional uh way of banking and moving money.
00:09:13.120 --> 00:09:13.519
Absolutely.
00:09:13.919 --> 00:09:23.360
You already mentioned that stable coins, um, I think currently, it doesn't matter which conference you're at, are probably one of the most talked-about things in payments.
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And I think that there's a lot of hype around it, but also there's actual practicality.
00:09:28.080 --> 00:09:30.080
So, what you mentioned of actually moving that.
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But for those of you who are not as familiar with it, right, what is the real problem that stable coins are actually solving that's different from the older ways of moving money across borders?
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Yeah, good, good question again.
00:09:43.840 --> 00:09:49.759
What the traditional money flow, the the currency, the world currency is US dollar, right?
00:09:49.919 --> 00:09:55.440
So if you move from a let's say exotic currency, you need to move to US dollar.
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A lot of uh currencies are pegged to US dollar as well because it is the world currency.
00:10:00.480 --> 00:10:06.799
Now, with stablecoin, let's say, for example, USDC is pegged to US dollar as well.
00:10:06.879 --> 00:10:10.240
So it's still in line with what's what's happening in the world, right?
00:10:10.320 --> 00:10:12.000
It's it's the world currency.
00:10:12.320 --> 00:10:27.440
So stable coin is basically on the blockchain, it's it's um normally pegged against US dollar, but every country has their own stable coin as well, so they may have something pegged to their local currency uh as well.
00:10:27.679 --> 00:10:37.600
But mainly the majority of the time it's US dollar-based that uh good people are using globally, and what it is uh like I mentioned before, it's on the blockchain, so you can see it's visible.
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You can see when it started, where it finished.
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So this is the simplicity of stablecoin.
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Yeah, it's a buzzword, but it's a buzzword for a reason.
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People need to use it, it needs to be utilized.
00:10:50.399 --> 00:10:55.440
But I think what I just mentioned before is that you don't just if you don't want to use crypto, that's fine.
00:10:55.519 --> 00:10:59.600
There's other ways of utilizing it in a very productive manner as well.
00:10:59.759 --> 00:11:08.159
Um, so that's basically the the very simple um uh low-down version of just what stable coin is.
00:11:08.399 --> 00:11:08.879
Absolutely.
00:11:09.039 --> 00:11:14.960
So I think critics might say, why don't we just speed up current existing platforms?
00:11:15.039 --> 00:11:16.960
Because the money's already moving there.
00:11:17.120 --> 00:11:25.120
Um, oftentimes, indeed, it might take two or three days, but why don't we focus on speeding that up instead of going and using a whole new platform?
00:11:25.279 --> 00:11:26.799
What would you say against that?
00:11:27.840 --> 00:11:30.480
Um what do you mean?
00:11:31.759 --> 00:11:33.840
So, like let's look at the Swift Rails, right?
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You're like, or in the UK, for instance, you have FastNet, in Europe, you have SEPA.
00:11:37.919 --> 00:11:40.639
All of those are instant ways of moving money.
00:11:40.799 --> 00:11:40.960
Yes.
00:11:41.200 --> 00:11:51.200
But then indeed in those markets that you're mentioning, uh, it might still take a long time because some of those local networks don't exist, but they are fiat in, fiat out, right?
00:11:51.279 --> 00:11:54.960
No need for a stable coin in the European market, in the UK markets.
00:11:55.039 --> 00:12:06.799
Um, but we're now utilizing an entire new network, an entire new stable coin to actually move that money in, well, sort of like that cent, which right before in fiat stable coins and fiat back out.
00:12:06.960 --> 00:12:12.960
You know, a lot of critics might say, hey, why don't we just speed up the existing networks?
00:12:13.120 --> 00:12:14.320
Why don't we speed up Swift?
00:12:14.399 --> 00:12:20.480
Why don't we speed up why don't we duplicate what's in the UK and SEPA and bring those into those other markets?
00:12:20.799 --> 00:12:26.240
Yeah, I mean that they're they're right as well, but you can't do it, it's impossible, right?
00:12:26.399 --> 00:12:34.480
So SEPA is SEPA like faster payments is a local UK payment option, right?
00:12:34.639 --> 00:12:35.919
That's that's what it is.
00:12:36.240 --> 00:12:41.679
Now, if let's say, for example, India wanted to have their own, they have imps.
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You know, they have the it's the the system is is trying to do the same thing, but the two completely different systems, right?
00:12:49.600 --> 00:12:54.399
So, how to actually merge them together is why we're talking about stable coins, you know.
00:12:54.639 --> 00:12:56.320
So these are very good systems.
00:12:56.480 --> 00:12:58.399
Separ is a fantastic system, right?
00:12:58.480 --> 00:13:05.279
Faster payments is is a very good system, but like I mentioned, that's why we're focusing on the emerging markets.
00:13:05.360 --> 00:13:08.399
Sometimes they may not even have these systems, you see.
00:13:08.720 --> 00:13:13.759
Um, so the it bridges the gap between all these different systems.
00:13:13.919 --> 00:13:14.960
That's that's what it is.
00:13:15.120 --> 00:13:24.480
You can't, you know, it's like saying, well, we had euro here in Europe, but the UK said, you know, we want to stay with pound, for example.
00:13:24.639 --> 00:13:27.519
Now, would it have been easier for everyone to use euro globally?
00:13:27.679 --> 00:13:30.960
Everyone have one currency, yes, but it's not realistic, is it?
00:13:31.120 --> 00:13:33.519
So it's the same with the payment systems as well.
00:13:33.600 --> 00:13:38.559
Although that theory is good, the practicality of it is not there, it's not gonna happen.
00:13:38.799 --> 00:13:43.120
So, how do we use that theory and get it into practical?
00:13:43.200 --> 00:13:45.200
And that's where this comes in, you know.
00:13:45.360 --> 00:13:47.120
This is like answering that question.
00:13:47.279 --> 00:13:55.759
So the critics are sort of I wouldn't say the critics, they have good theory, but in reality it's not it's not doable.
00:13:56.080 --> 00:13:57.360
Okay, fantastic.
00:13:57.600 --> 00:14:01.600
Um whenever you move money across borders, right?
00:14:01.679 --> 00:14:14.720
Like it it goes from one country, lands into another, um, and like you already mentioned, there's several networks involved that might uh use uh UK faster payments or uh a separate transaction and then it goes on to another Rails.
00:14:15.039 --> 00:14:21.759
How does Pay Future actually decide which one given payment takes and why that that matters?
00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:28.639
A good it depend number one, it depends on the country, it depends on what you can do, what you can't do.
00:14:28.879 --> 00:14:33.360
Um, we only go into countries where we can do certain things, right?
00:14:33.519 --> 00:14:38.879
Some some countries they don't like crypto, you know, they don't have any legislation for crypto.
00:14:38.960 --> 00:14:40.879
Okay, no, no, no issues.
00:14:41.120 --> 00:14:48.320
Um, for example, India with the FIU uh registration for digital assets, you can on-ramp, off-ramp.
00:14:48.559 --> 00:14:51.759
You know, that is something that they've put in place.
00:14:52.159 --> 00:15:06.720
Very forward-thinking governments like that, they have these uh kind of ideas in place, um, but they need to make sure that their currency is is protected, um, they need visibility on everything as well.
00:15:07.039 --> 00:15:17.759
So, look, from from our point of view, it's like we have to you go to every country and and look at well, what problem are we solving?
00:15:17.919 --> 00:15:20.639
Number one, can we actually solve that problem?
00:15:20.960 --> 00:15:25.440
You're right, moving money into the country is is very straightforward.
00:15:25.519 --> 00:15:30.559
You know, a lot of people can can actually do that, but how do we do that faster, quicker, cheaper?
00:15:30.720 --> 00:15:31.039
Right?
00:15:31.120 --> 00:15:38.639
That's and the other way is like, okay, if we're trying to move them if move money out of the country, number one, can we actually do it?
00:15:38.799 --> 00:15:42.960
Uh number two, what legislation, regulation can we use in order to do that?
00:15:43.200 --> 00:15:46.080
And if we do that, how can we make it fast?
00:15:46.240 --> 00:15:48.960
How can we make it quicker?
00:15:49.200 --> 00:15:56.720
How can we say to the merchant, you know what, you'll get your money in this much time, you know, instead of waiting 30 days for your money.
00:15:56.799 --> 00:15:58.799
You know, this is something that we'll implement.
00:15:58.960 --> 00:16:07.519
So it's us working as a team, working within PayPal to say to say, look, this is the issues that we have, what we're solving, what we're solving for.
00:16:07.840 --> 00:16:13.039
Every product that we have, every solution that we have, it has to be solving a problem.
00:16:13.360 --> 00:16:15.120
Otherwise, we don't actually do it.
00:16:15.279 --> 00:16:22.480
You know, there's been many, many good, good ideas that we've put to one side because they're not solving a problem.
00:16:23.039 --> 00:16:28.639
So this is what we look at in terms, and this is what how we get to our solution, basically.
00:16:28.799 --> 00:16:35.200
There may be some countries where we don't come to a solution fine, then we don't do those countries, you know.
00:16:35.360 --> 00:16:39.519
So this is our way of working, this is how we we come up with this.
00:16:39.840 --> 00:16:40.480
Absolutely.
00:16:40.720 --> 00:16:50.720
And of course, there are some of the largest networks in the world um who are all spending billions of dollars on trying to essentially build what you're currently building, right?
00:16:51.279 --> 00:16:57.919
What would you say to those who are either investing in that or trying to build those versus what you're building?
00:16:58.080 --> 00:17:01.759
Why are you more effective or why would your solution outpace them?
00:17:02.080 --> 00:17:04.160
Yeah, and very good again.
00:17:04.400 --> 00:17:06.720
This is a very important question.
00:17:07.119 --> 00:17:09.519
For us, look, we're completely bootstrapped.
00:17:09.599 --> 00:17:12.160
You know, we we started this organization.
00:17:12.319 --> 00:17:19.200
Uh, me and my founder, Zaki Farouk, um, we founded it on the basis of we're just solving a problem.
00:17:19.440 --> 00:17:30.640
Now we had to basically, you know, the simple things of getting servers, etc., this is what we had to do at the beginning with our own money, not huge amounts of money.
00:17:30.960 --> 00:17:39.200
But making a very simple system and making it work for our first merchants and building on top of that is what we've done from the get-go.
00:17:39.680 --> 00:17:46.480
Um, and we've managed to scale that up without any internal, uh, external, sorry, investment.
00:17:46.640 --> 00:17:52.079
You know, whatever we um got in terms of profit we put back into our organization.
00:17:52.319 --> 00:17:57.119
Now, why did we do that and what outcome did it come, did we come to?
00:17:57.440 --> 00:18:06.559
Is that because we had to be very conservative of where we spend our money, we we made sure we spent spend it wisely, you know.
00:18:06.799 --> 00:18:12.079
Um, but you don't need billions and billions of dollars to solve a problem.
00:18:12.480 --> 00:18:13.839
You know, you don't need that.
00:18:14.079 --> 00:18:20.640
What you need, what if somebody's building up for US, Europe, or globally, fair enough.
00:18:20.960 --> 00:18:34.319
But to navigate certain countries, like for example, India, to navigate to have a product, let's say, uh in the US and bring it to India and expecting it to work is is this not going to happen, right?
00:18:34.480 --> 00:18:37.200
Because you it is a completely different country.
00:18:37.359 --> 00:18:45.119
The culture is completely different, the people are different, the local laws, regulations, how the working style is is completely different.
00:18:45.359 --> 00:18:50.319
So our uniqueness comes in that we know how to navigate the local landscape.
00:18:50.480 --> 00:18:56.640
You know, we I'm not born and brought up in a country like India, but I understand the country.
00:18:56.880 --> 00:19:08.319
We understand countries like Egypt, we understand countries like Nigeria, we've been there ourselves, you know, we've visited these countries, we understand the local landscape, what can be done, what can't be done.
00:19:08.480 --> 00:19:12.480
And that's you can't just throw money at that problem, you know.
00:19:12.720 --> 00:19:26.079
We've always been competing against organizations that have had much, much more money than us, but we've been competing quite successfully as well, and we have been successful because of the ethos of just solving a problem.
00:19:26.160 --> 00:19:34.160
Yeah, you know, our solution works, our product set is good, but you just make it nice and simple, you know.
00:19:34.319 --> 00:19:44.799
Sometimes uh a lot of organizations you've seen in the last maybe at least five years where money has been spent, you know, a lot of uh money has been spent.
00:19:44.880 --> 00:19:52.319
Let's say, for example, we're scaling up and uh getting a lot of people, then a lot of people let go at the same time as well, right?
00:19:52.640 --> 00:19:58.720
So I'm not saying one way of working is correct and one way is not correct, you know.
00:19:58.880 --> 00:20:08.160
Um I can only talk about what has been successful for us, and um that's not to say that we may not go that route in the future as well.
00:20:08.319 --> 00:20:19.279
So what we've done so far up to this stage, I'm proud of, you know, and we are competing against these guys for sure, but um that's part of the challenge, isn't it?
00:20:19.519 --> 00:20:20.559
Yeah, absolutely.
00:20:20.720 --> 00:20:38.640
So you you just mentioned skill, and I think that's probably uh a topic that I want to dive in a little bit more because just like I mentioned, there's multiple networks, multiple companies as well trying to build that and already processing billions of dollars, um, but then having large capital gaps, have raised a lot of money.
00:20:39.039 --> 00:20:41.039
You've done it all with your own money.
00:20:41.200 --> 00:20:50.880
Um and the truth of the matter is that skill oftentimes only wins when you have better pricing, more leverage or more resilience.
00:20:51.039 --> 00:20:58.160
However, in this case, it doesn't seem to be like that because you you're using tenacity, grid, local knowledge as well.
00:20:58.400 --> 00:21:04.960
What do you think sets B future apart from all of those other companies who have already been on this journey or continue to be on this journey?
00:21:05.279 --> 00:21:14.799
Yeah, look, we don't look at other other organizations, if they're doing this, we don't really look at them and see, you know, what you know, look at them as competition.
00:21:14.960 --> 00:21:17.680
We have to look at ourselves and see what we can do better.
00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:22.400
We have our whole business model is built on the blue ocean strategy.
00:21:22.720 --> 00:21:28.480
Now, the blue ocean strategy is basically you have the red ocean.
00:21:28.640 --> 00:21:37.920
The red ocean is where you have sharks fighting over the same piece of meat, and um, you know, you're competing on price, for example.
00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:49.359
You know, that's that's not a good race to the to the top, or you have a completely separate ocean for yourself as a shark, and you have the whole ocean to to feed off.
00:21:49.519 --> 00:21:52.160
So our our ethos has always been the blue ocean.
00:21:52.240 --> 00:21:53.599
How can we be blue ocean?
00:21:53.680 --> 00:21:59.759
How can we be um different if we can't spend you know hundreds of millions or even billions?
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:03.599
Of dollars, that's not we shouldn't even be looking at stuff like that.
00:22:03.680 --> 00:22:08.079
You know, what can we do within our realm to make us successful?
00:22:08.240 --> 00:22:17.200
So we've always had this the visos, ethos, but what it is, we we haven't like gone crazy in terms of the number of people that we have as well.
00:22:17.359 --> 00:22:27.359
We still have a relevantly small team, you know, and they um look at their departments and make sure that you know we have simple things that just work, you know.
00:22:27.519 --> 00:22:38.480
When you get larger and larger, when you're talking about scale, scale is often lost when you can't really see what the person on uh on the actual floor is is is doing day in day out.
00:22:38.559 --> 00:22:43.599
You have to make sure that they're doing their job as maximum level as possible.
00:22:43.759 --> 00:22:50.559
You know, this is something that when you have small amounts of people, you can see you know what the output is from each individual.
00:22:50.720 --> 00:22:56.400
And an organization like us that hasn't got the these kind of funds, those guys are very important.
00:22:56.559 --> 00:22:57.680
A team is very important.
00:22:57.839 --> 00:23:00.720
You don't get to where you get to without the team, you know.
00:23:00.799 --> 00:23:08.240
The the guys around you have to be good, and that's what we got uh at the moment, and yeah, this is up to this point.
00:23:08.319 --> 00:23:12.319
This is what has led to us being where we are now.
00:23:12.559 --> 00:23:20.960
Um, and scaling always starts with the people, always starts with very, very good people.
00:23:21.119 --> 00:23:24.319
If you have good people, it becomes easier to scale.
00:23:24.480 --> 00:23:35.359
Now, the hiring process is where you every company makes mistakes, every company uh also gets champions in terms of their team in order to scale up as well.
00:23:35.440 --> 00:23:38.480
So it comes with people, scaling comes with with uh people.
00:23:38.559 --> 00:23:46.079
You know, you have your systems, you have your process, fair enough, but it's the people is what drives that, and that that's that's important.
00:23:46.240 --> 00:23:49.680
But we don't we can't compete against you know having 5,000 people.
00:23:49.759 --> 00:23:51.359
This is not something that we can do.
00:23:51.599 --> 00:23:54.799
So for us, we have to look at it as a completely different approach.
00:23:55.039 --> 00:23:55.599
Absolutely.
00:23:55.759 --> 00:24:14.480
I think especially the well, a couple of things that you mentioned, the blue ocean strategy, which I think is um probably one of the best strategies that you can deploy, especially in markets where it's oversaturated, there's too much competition, this compet competition on based on pricing, um, and also a lot of legacy infrastructure, right?
00:24:14.559 --> 00:24:23.599
Like a lot of the core builds you're solving, um, there's legacy infrastructure in place which are actually orchestrating it around different routes and going into those markets.
00:24:23.759 --> 00:24:29.920
But if you would describe that blue ocean, what is that blue ocean that you see that others might not?
00:24:31.119 --> 00:24:31.839
Good question.
00:24:31.920 --> 00:24:40.559
The a blue ocean always starts with an idea of what we can do, you know, what is being used at the moment, what are people doing?
00:24:40.720 --> 00:24:42.240
For example, you mentioned legacy.
00:24:42.480 --> 00:24:48.480
Legacy for for anyone trying to do a blue ocean strategy, legacy is a very important word.
00:24:48.559 --> 00:24:55.599
If somebody uh is working on legacy products, um, or Swift is a perfect example of that, right?
00:24:55.759 --> 00:25:08.640
If you look at that, that's easy to build your blue ocean from what's legacy, what we can make can we make that is more quicker, faster, what adds value, you know, so we build our own uh ocean there.
00:25:09.039 --> 00:25:13.440
But not just blue ocean from the beginning, a blue ocean needs to keep evolving as well.
00:25:13.599 --> 00:25:17.680
You can't just have blue ocean and then you know think, okay, that's it then.
00:25:17.759 --> 00:25:20.559
You know, the other people will start doing what you're doing as well.
00:25:20.640 --> 00:25:25.680
So the blue ocean needs to keep evolving, it needs to keep uh moving faster.
00:25:25.920 --> 00:25:30.000
We as an organization, we were technology always, always uh before.
00:25:30.160 --> 00:25:40.640
Then we we uh got our EMI out of Malta, so we we involved in the uh the flow of funds, and our blue ocean changed then because we can do something different.
00:25:40.799 --> 00:25:45.279
Now we have you know the VASP licenses and licenses in Canada, etc.
00:25:45.519 --> 00:25:51.279
So our blue ocean changes as well because you have more leverage to do certain uh different things as well.
00:25:51.359 --> 00:25:53.119
So you have it has to keep evolving.
00:25:53.200 --> 00:25:56.000
You can't just have one blue ocean and think that's it.
00:25:56.319 --> 00:26:00.079
Uh when we first started, stablecoin wasn't really a thing, you know.
00:26:00.160 --> 00:26:09.200
It's only come in probably more in the last uh five years from the start, and now it's obviously more prevalent now.
00:26:09.519 --> 00:26:14.000
But you have to look at that and you have to then evolve, you have to change as well.
00:26:15.359 --> 00:26:18.559
Payments is fast, so you have to be fast with it.
00:26:18.880 --> 00:26:20.880
So that that's how we uh we do it here.
00:26:21.200 --> 00:26:21.759
Absolutely.
00:26:22.400 --> 00:26:27.039
The other thing that you mentioned was the fact that you keep your well, you have a s relatively small team.
00:26:27.119 --> 00:26:34.640
I won't say a small team, a relatively small team, um, that you're working efficient, and you know exactly which market you're targeting.
00:26:35.440 --> 00:26:37.119
In this age of AI, right?
00:26:37.200 --> 00:26:43.359
Like you we mentioned, we talked about companies who maybe have 5,000 people or 10,000 people that you're competing with.
00:26:43.759 --> 00:26:54.240
Are you leveraging AI right now to make your team even more efficient or to execute faster or to maybe generate more code so that you can build more integrations with others?
00:26:55.200 --> 00:26:56.480
Yeah, the answer is yes.
00:26:56.640 --> 00:27:00.960
I think if any organization is not using AI, I don't know what they're doing basically.
00:27:01.200 --> 00:27:07.440
You know, it's in terms of your technology, in terms of your development, I think it has to be used.
00:27:07.680 --> 00:27:13.920
Now, whether it's 100% perfect all the time, I don't know, I don't think so.
00:27:14.160 --> 00:27:18.240
Um, but it's okay, at least it saves you a lot of time, you know.
00:27:18.319 --> 00:27:21.519
So you have to keep you have to keep utilizing it.
00:27:21.599 --> 00:27:25.359
I think we spoke outside and we were saying if it's binary, then it's good.
00:27:25.440 --> 00:27:28.319
It needs it needs to be utilized, it should be utilized.
00:27:28.480 --> 00:27:34.880
We I even at the senior leadership team meetings as well, I emphasise that use AI.
00:27:34.960 --> 00:27:35.359
Why not?
00:27:35.440 --> 00:27:38.319
It's there for you to use, use it, it's fine.
00:27:38.480 --> 00:27:46.960
But if you're asking AI for an opinion or you know, asking for something similar, then I don't think it's really at that level.
00:27:47.200 --> 00:27:48.880
This is what I think as well.
00:27:49.039 --> 00:27:54.079
Otherwise, you know, everyone would have created a uh a unicorn business in a few months, right?
00:27:54.480 --> 00:28:10.720
So where it's very black and white, where you can get things done, and you know, whether that's finance, whether that's you know, Excel sheets, whether that's you know, making sure that you your reconciliation, whether that's a tech guys, that 100% it has to be utilized.
00:28:10.799 --> 00:28:12.000
We do utilize it.
00:28:12.160 --> 00:28:20.319
Um, but when you're asking it to do like a report for you and stuff, and you know it's just all AI, you know, it's it's I don't know.
00:28:20.559 --> 00:28:24.160
You know, I'm I'm more it's good.
00:28:24.319 --> 00:28:33.119
Just util even Do you feel that your team is more efficient because they use AI and that you can therefore scale farther without having to hire additional people?
00:28:33.440 --> 00:28:43.359
Yeah, I mean some of the products that we've utilized AI and the speed at which we've we've got it has been unbelievable in the last in the last few months actually.
00:28:43.599 --> 00:28:49.599
So I have seen with my own eyes the benefit of it, but it's not just me doing it.
00:28:49.680 --> 00:28:52.559
I wouldn't say I'm an AI specialist, it's a team, you know.
00:28:52.640 --> 00:29:04.880
Some of the guys are really, you know, they're they're really into it, really study it hard, and they're the ones that are utilizing it, they're presented to somebody like myself, and you know, it's it's hard not to get impressed by it, right?
00:29:05.039 --> 00:29:09.519
Um, so even I I I tried to say to everyone, utilise it in everything.
00:29:09.599 --> 00:29:11.599
Just just do it, just try it out, you know.
00:29:11.759 --> 00:29:15.920
It may not even be correct, you know, it may not be correct, but it's okay.
00:29:16.079 --> 00:29:18.000
If it saves you time and stuff, why not?
00:29:18.160 --> 00:29:19.759
Just just just try it out, you know.
00:29:19.920 --> 00:29:23.039
It's it's not perfect, it will it will keep getting better though, will it?
00:29:23.200 --> 00:29:31.359
So I want to go back into a topic that of course, as pay future, you're probably very future optimistic as well.
00:29:31.519 --> 00:29:40.960
Um but some of the markets that you're in have very strict capital controls, uh, precisely to stop money and especially dollars leaving the country.
00:29:41.119 --> 00:29:42.799
You already mentioned that a couple of times.
00:29:42.960 --> 00:29:55.200
Um, and a product whose whole point is actually to get easier access to digital dollars is basically in direct tension with those regulators who are trying to prevent those.
00:29:55.440 --> 00:29:59.839
Um, how is this not something that a central bank can eventually shut down?
00:30:00.559 --> 00:30:01.039
Good question.
00:30:01.119 --> 00:30:03.200
Like I mentioned Argentina before.
00:30:03.359 --> 00:30:10.559
Um, so these kind of countries where there are hugely strict capital control, we try not to go in there.
00:30:10.640 --> 00:30:12.240
You know, that's not a country for us.
00:30:12.319 --> 00:30:16.559
That's we can't, that's not a solution that we can we can do there, you know.
00:30:16.640 --> 00:30:22.400
This the it will get shut down if you try to do anything against the rules, against the regulation.
00:30:22.640 --> 00:30:26.559
So we only go into countries where we can do something, you know.
00:30:26.799 --> 00:30:37.440
Um some countries are are very forward-thinking in terms of their their money movement because you know currency fluctuations happen for um a lot of reasons.
00:30:37.599 --> 00:30:43.440
But one of those reasons is is money movement, you know, that happens that there's no visibility on as well.
00:30:43.599 --> 00:30:50.640
So they have to put those controls in place to make sure that they protect their own country to protect their local currency.
00:30:50.880 --> 00:31:00.319
But where there is a regulation, where there some of these countries' emerging markets are opening up, that's where we are, you know, that's where we are.
00:31:00.640 --> 00:31:06.160
So, and you can we can see that countries will open up to it as well.
00:31:06.240 --> 00:31:16.079
You know, when they can see certain countries opening up to it and be successful, then you'll see other countries opening up to it as well, where it won't affect their the local currency.
00:31:16.240 --> 00:31:24.960
So this is something for each government, obviously it's central bank, but a lot of countries are quite forward-thinking with this sort of thing now.
00:31:25.039 --> 00:31:30.240
You know, you'll be surprised as to the last five years what changes have actually taken place.
00:31:30.400 --> 00:31:37.039
You know, a lot of uh countries are opening up uh regulation in terms of like stablecoin.
00:31:37.119 --> 00:31:46.319
Uh, for example, I mentioned um India uh with the FIU, even like uh other countries as well are opening up to stable coin as well.
00:31:46.559 --> 00:31:54.000
So, where we can, you know, maybe utilize fiat, where we can maybe utilize stable coin, we we can do it.
00:31:54.160 --> 00:31:55.839
Where we can't, then what can you do?
00:31:55.920 --> 00:31:57.599
There's no solution, really, at that point.
00:31:57.680 --> 00:32:00.720
So we have to hold our hands up to say, look, it's not ready yet.
00:32:00.799 --> 00:32:07.039
Even though the merchants, the businesses all ask for these countries, you say, Look, we can't, that's not a country we can do, unfortunately.
00:32:07.200 --> 00:32:11.039
So, what we can do, we do what we can't do, we have to stay away from.
00:32:11.440 --> 00:32:12.000
Absolutely.
00:32:12.480 --> 00:32:25.359
So when we look at in the sort of uh where payments is headed, where merchants are headed, a lot of these uh new emerging markets actually have a lot of great potential and upside as well.
00:32:25.599 --> 00:32:42.960
Um but maybe from your perspective, as you're dealing with your clients, as you're dealing with the merchants that you're working with, um what are you seeing that others might not be seeing as far as where global cross-border uh e-commerce and and and this overall commerce is headed?
00:32:43.920 --> 00:32:58.559
Yeah, because what it is like it's commerce is within you have within country commerce, you know, where production sells, whether it's a service, whether it's a product that sells within their ecosystem.
00:32:58.880 --> 00:33:08.640
But a lot of the times those people who are creating those services, creating those products, etc., they want to sell to out different countries outside, right?
00:33:08.960 --> 00:33:12.400
Now the challenge then happens is that how do they get paid?
00:33:12.559 --> 00:33:20.000
You know, what is the the process of being paid uh in a regulated compliant manner, right?
00:33:20.160 --> 00:33:23.039
So we can see that that's an issue, right?
00:33:23.200 --> 00:33:29.359
Not because we do loads of you know, loads of analysis on this, uh etc.
00:33:29.599 --> 00:33:30.799
That that's not the case.
00:33:30.960 --> 00:33:38.559
It's simply what businesses tell us that they need the requirement is um within country uh as well.
00:33:38.799 --> 00:33:46.640
Global commerce is increasing and it will keep increasing because we're solving that problem of the money movement, you know.
00:33:46.960 --> 00:33:58.960
Now, when you look at uh social apps, when you look at the internet, it's all global, but money isn't, you know, so it's still there's still borders, but people want to sell to everyone, you know.
00:33:59.200 --> 00:34:01.200
So how do you solve that problem?
00:34:01.440 --> 00:34:05.759
This is still something that needs to get solved in certain countries.
00:34:05.920 --> 00:34:16.000
Um, you know, like a country like Africa, they're they're seeing a massive boom in certain countries there because money's able to move a lot freer now.
00:34:16.079 --> 00:34:17.360
You see, you're seeing this, you know.
00:34:17.599 --> 00:34:23.360
A lot of countries are really um getting uh bigger in terms of their economies and stuff.
00:34:23.440 --> 00:34:27.760
But one of the prime uh countries we talk about here is Nigeria.
00:34:27.920 --> 00:34:35.519
You know, Nigeria is the economy is doing very, very well because you know they're able to um, you know, people able to pay, etc.
00:34:35.760 --> 00:34:36.320
You know.
00:34:36.559 --> 00:34:40.800
Um, so this is still an issue, right?
00:34:40.880 --> 00:34:43.760
But if it wasn't an issue, then we wouldn't have a business, right?
00:34:44.079 --> 00:34:50.800
So this is what we try to to solve for, and I mentioned so many times solving a problem, solving a problem.
00:34:50.960 --> 00:34:53.039
But this it that's what it is.
00:34:53.199 --> 00:34:59.199
This is still an issue which we're trying to make sure that we can help with, right?
00:34:59.280 --> 00:35:03.039
So that's in terms of insights, yeah, there's loads of buzzwords.
00:35:03.119 --> 00:35:15.199
You mentioned AI, you know, there was more uh AI buzzwords before last year, but it's quite simple issues that we're trying to alleviate, you know, with these are not complex.
00:35:15.679 --> 00:35:20.000
So that's a kind of we're we're seeing like a trend of of this.
00:35:20.320 --> 00:35:27.920
Every comp uh country is trying to do their best in terms of getting more uh business from different countries, etc.
00:35:28.239 --> 00:35:31.599
So, in order to do that, borders will have to open up.
00:35:31.679 --> 00:35:35.199
You know, that's how you get global commerce to where it needs to get to.
00:35:35.440 --> 00:35:36.079
Absolutely.
00:35:36.239 --> 00:35:39.760
So, as my final question, I always ask my guests, right?
00:35:39.920 --> 00:35:46.000
Um, there's a lot of future optimistic things that we look forward to.
00:35:46.079 --> 00:35:50.480
Indeed, it doesn't matter if it's AI, agenda commerce, um, all of those different things.
00:35:50.639 --> 00:35:52.239
Stable coins, fantastic.
00:35:52.480 --> 00:35:55.119
However, sometimes we have roadblocks as well.
00:35:55.280 --> 00:36:10.159
So, what is one of those roadblocks that could be compliance related, regulatory related, stable coins acceptance, you name it, that you believe that we need to resolve so that we can maybe encourage more global commerce or that pay future can continue to grow?
00:36:10.480 --> 00:36:14.559
Yeah, uh I mentioned it before it's compliance, it's regulation, right?
00:36:14.639 --> 00:36:15.519
But that will come.
00:36:15.760 --> 00:36:16.480
That will come.
00:36:16.960 --> 00:36:21.920
We even do go to certain countries, we speak to central banks ourselves.
00:36:22.079 --> 00:36:30.960
You know, we speak about this, we speak about how it can benefit their their country, how you know getting certain regulation legislation can help them.
00:36:31.039 --> 00:36:31.519
We have that.
00:36:31.599 --> 00:36:33.119
I have the conversations.
00:36:33.440 --> 00:36:43.920
Um my co-founder has those conversations uh with them as well, and they're open to listen to you, you know, because who doesn't want more business for their country?
00:36:44.079 --> 00:36:46.239
Who doesn't want their country to do better?
00:36:46.480 --> 00:36:47.679
Everyone wants that.
00:36:47.920 --> 00:36:52.159
So that's a that's you're gonna see this, this trend will change, you know.
00:36:52.239 --> 00:37:00.559
This trend of, you know, before uh I mean, even three years ago, even maybe two years ago, the word crypto was like, oh, not sure about that.
00:37:00.639 --> 00:37:07.039
You know, it's you know, it it's it with the Genius Act, everything changed, you know, last year.
00:37:07.199 --> 00:37:10.480
It was you know, opened up a lot of opportunity.
00:37:11.039 --> 00:37:14.000
And that will be the next trend, you see.
00:37:14.159 --> 00:37:20.719
A lot of countries will open up to this um to make sure that they do the best for their countries.
00:37:21.039 --> 00:37:29.920
So this was from my point of view, I don't know too much about how AI is gonna do, or you know, whether our rockets are gonna go to Mars, etc.
00:37:30.159 --> 00:37:31.679
That's not for me to talk about.
00:37:31.840 --> 00:37:38.800
I can all only talk about what interests me and what we're the uh doing is like and that will open up.
00:37:38.960 --> 00:37:42.960
Certain countries will open up more to to cross-border money movement.
00:37:43.199 --> 00:37:45.360
You need speed, you need it to be fast.
00:37:45.679 --> 00:37:49.920
Nobody wants to wait, you know, months for their their money, right?
00:37:50.000 --> 00:37:55.679
The cash flow is very important for their them, uh, their economies, for businesses to do better.
00:37:56.000 --> 00:38:00.880
Entrepreneurs are what makes a country be successful or not successful, you know.
00:38:00.960 --> 00:38:06.079
So if you can help them as much as possible, that trend will will definitely happen.
00:38:06.159 --> 00:38:07.360
It's a good trend as well.
00:38:07.519 --> 00:38:09.199
It will help uh organizations.
00:38:09.360 --> 00:38:16.639
Look, we only go into difficult countries, you know, where we can try to look at it and and try to solve a problem.
00:38:16.719 --> 00:38:18.159
That's what we actually do.
00:38:18.320 --> 00:38:20.320
So this and it will continue.
00:38:20.400 --> 00:38:21.440
So we'll continue that.
00:38:21.519 --> 00:38:28.159
That that is going to be a trend, but we'll continue to make sure that we offer benefit to businesses that try to go into these countries.
00:38:28.320 --> 00:38:28.880
Perfect.
00:38:28.960 --> 00:38:32.000
Well, thank you very much for joining us here at Executive Conversation.
00:38:32.079 --> 00:38:33.519
It was a pleasure to speak to you.
00:38:33.760 --> 00:38:34.320
See you soon.
00:38:34.559 --> 00:38:35.760
Brilliant, thank you very much.
00:38:35.920 --> 00:38:36.320
Thank you.
00:38:36.719 --> 00:38:41.119
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