Abbie Eaton Interview: Racing Career, Injury Comeback & the Future for Women in Motorsport

Everything Trackside: Hi, my name's Abbie Eaton and welcome to the Everything Trackside of Hobbit. Hello and welcome back to the Everything Tracks Live podcast. I'm your host, Sean Kennedy. And yep, you're really hearing it. We are really, really doubling down on keeping the content flowing during this mini off season of Formula One with lots of interviews, lots of guests. And we do have another special guest with us this evening. We'll join them very, very shortly. Joining me for this interview and special episode is Sock. Welcome back. It's been a couple of weeks. Hey, Sean. Good to see you. Yeah, it's been a while. Glad to be here and look forward to our guests this evening. Yes, it should be a good one. And Morayde, you've been extremely busy this week. It has been hectic to say the least, but it's been really entertaining and really fun. But I am extremely excited for today's interview. Yes. That's not even a word of a lie. Abby Eaton, our guest this evening. Maread has been, I can hear her from the other side of Ireland dancing up and down around the room, excited about this one. Welcome along. Thank you so very much for joining us. How are you? I'm good. I'm feeling a little bit left out. I haven't got any like manufacturer branded gear on. I need to check something on, don't I? I can superimpose something over you later. Yeah, yeah, I got to think of a brand. You're still in Ford, I'll have Holden instead and then we can have the Ford Holden debate. Yeah, there we go. Yeah, that works. Perfect. So we'll have a clash there. We're in Red Bull and McLaren here. We've a clash here too. good, good two rivalries. mean, just chatting about this just before we came on, you've obviously been on with us before, but several years ago in a different world, very different world in 2021. it was a different time, different brand, different people. So. treating us very much as a fresh start. really, really appreciate you taking the time to come back effectively and join us again. So for anyone, we have a lot of new listeners, particularly a lot of our listeners at the moment are actually based over in the US and a lot of them are quite new to motorsport, Formula One, the feeder series of Formula One, the support series. So for anyone who might not be familiar with yourself, give us a bit of a background on your career and what got you into racing to begin with. So I've raced for about 24 years now and it's basically all my dad's fault. So I grew up watching my dad race all sorts of things ever since I was a young kid really. He started on bikes when he was 16 years old, raced speedway on the bikes, ended up having a bit of a crash on one of those and thought, actually, I need to race them a bit safer. I moved from two wheels to four wheels and then raced 250 National Gearbox karts and then moved to Rallycross and then onto circuit racing. I was at race tracks in my mom's tummy and it was probably inevitable at some point that I would... get into the sport as much as I think my mum and dad would prefer me have gone down a much more sensible route. I was always a bit of an adrenaline junkie as a kid. So yeah, there was only one direction I was going to head in. you obviously went for four wheels right off the bat, I suppose. You've raced in a lot of different series. Did you ever tip your toe into two wheels? So that was actually, initially wanted to start on bikes. I was always on my mountain bike doing massive jumps and going flat out and trying to get my knee down and all that silly stuff when I was a kid. Um, but because of my dad's previous experience on bikes and obviously he, you he knows how vulnerable you are on a bike. He was like, look, if you're going to race, like it's got to be four wheels. Um, that's where majority of my stuff's been, but I did get my bike license in 20, I think it was the end of 2020, um, end of COVID. And, um, I've done one bike track day and it was wicked, wicked fun. was on, I basically passed my test and then four weeks later drove a Yamaha R1M. I'm Silverstone. ⁓ That was quite fast and eye-opening, but weirdly I felt safer on a track doing 150 than I did doing 30 mile an on the road. I bet. Yeah. How was Copse on two wheels? Quite fast. Weirdly, actually, you don't go around the corners as fast as you do in a car. The level of grip and so on in the car is huge, yeah, it's pretty quick. on the straights. And I actually had had a pillion ride with my instructor, Rupert, and he was just insane. So yeah, a lot of respect for the MotoGP riders out there. Yeah. I know a lot of the Formula One drivers obviously say that quite often we've seen like Lewis Hamilton do, do things with Valentino Rossi back in the past and they swapped machines for a lap and then Lewis got out and said something like that. Like, Jesus, I have so much respect. I want my wheels, my four wheels back kind of thing. Leave that to them. So you've obviously raced. professionally in lots of different series, Mazdas, GT cars, W series, Lamborghinis. What was your favorite? If you had to pick one, like really on the spot, what was your favorite and how did the career kind of progress from Mazdas right at the start, right up to where you are now and the likes of where you've been recently in the likes of GTs and super Trofeos? It's a really hard question to say which has been my favorite because I've been really lucky to have driven many varied cars. I started off in go-karts, which is kind of the norm where a lot of racing drivers start. It's just a fantastic place to learn the foundations of racing. I was lucky enough to start when I was 10 years old. I did that for about four years and then moved into cars, into senior racing. I've raced front wheel drive, touring cars, rear wheel drive like the Mazda and GT cars and so on. I think probably I have to split it down into like, and then modern cars because I love any historic I drive. be honest, but probably Ford Mustang has been my absolute favorite. It was a 1965 Mustang I got to drive a couple of times. It's actually Alex Brundle's car, the Brustang it's called. So love driving that, but obviously you can't compare that to modern machinery. Obviously driving a Formula Three car was fantastic, just experience wise, because it's something that growing up. I never, well, we haven't got a budget to do something like single seater. So to have the opportunity to do that and to drive one of those was fantastic. But I've probably got to say it was the Porsche 911 Cup car that's been my favorite so far. It's just so different to drive because of obviously where extreme location of the engine and behind the rear wheels and quite frustrating to drive because the window for it to work is so small. But when you get it in there, is, yeah, what a wicked piece of kit. And very, very much enjoyed it. And you got to win in that series as well, if I'm not wrong. First female driver ever to win in a Porsche Cup? Yeah, that's right. Silverstone. So home circuit. Yeah. First females put it on pole and then convert it to a wins. ⁓ Yeah. Really, really enjoyed it. And it's a really tough series to kind of master the car and you kind of need a couple of years in it. So to kind of do that in or towards the end of my first year, I was really chuffed with it. And I really wanted that second year to kind of put all of the learning into, you know, into process, but yeah, it didn't happen. Budget, you know, not there unfortunately, but at least I've got that, that win and that history. Yeah. Behind me. must be especially kind of special to have done that and achieved that at home at Silverstone, at your home, with Grand Prix track at your home circuit. Was there fanfare around that? Was there a lot of support on the day? A lot of... ⁓ Happy British fans on the day? Yeah, there was to be fair. It was crazy. It was almost like I'd won a championship. think because, you know, especially in the UK motorsport, you know, I've done this for a long time and I've built quite a good support network and I've got so many awesome fans that are just whatever I can I tell my hand to, they're always there, you know, come into all the different circuits and, and flying the flag for me and, you know, to do it on a British touring car weekend, which is probably one of the most popular championships that you can race in. in the UK. Yeah, there was like 20 odd people deep, you know, trying to get into the Orleans. So it was special, but you know, it's just special to have friends and family there really and to share it them. Yeah, absolutely. I'm sure it would be. I can only imagine that the feeling of that one. Obviously we see a lot of everybody would say that they want to win their home race or at their home track with their home fans. So I can only imagine how special that would have been. mentioned a couple of times there growing up, the budgets and funding are obviously kind of ubiquitous with motorsport of any level for good and bad. ⁓ so I suppose it's, it's an interesting point because I think it's something that maybe a lot of people don't really put too much thought towards because obviously you see the likes of just to pick on him, like a Lance Stroll who has so much money, you can buy a team kind of thing. But it's, it's often sort of maybe forgotten again in the world of kind of Formula One that, almost all the drivers had some sort of backing, whether financial through family or more likely financial through like team support or something like that. So. from yourself and your own career. How did you manage that all throughout your career? Did you ever feel like you were constantly battling on and off the track to keep yourself in the sport or in any sort of series? Yeah, definitely. And in one respect, it made me a kind of better racer for it because, you know, the moves that I was putting on people, the overtakes I was making, I had to make sure that they came off without damage. You know, the half-hearted moves where things can go wrong and can end up tripping up. Certainly when I was younger and I was aware that I was racing against people that had ⁓ unlimited budget and they would make their car as wide as possible. And it was just me and my dad with this car. My dad was doing all the prep for that and stuff like that. And he'd spend hours in the garage, making sure that it was right. I didn't want it to ultimately, it would come back on my dad to have to fix the car and my parents to have to fund the repairs on it. I was fortunate from a young age, even without that kind of funding behind me, actually with the secondhand equipment and so on, actually, I was quite quick. So, know, I'm an all-in-last, I'm quite a determined, headstrong girl. you know, there was no way I wasn't going to try and succeed and give it a go. You know, it took a lot of personal development and training and kind of learning of skills to be able to kind of like sell myself. You know, I was kind of... my own manager, my own marketing manager, ⁓ marketing materials, social media manager, all that kind of stuff that kind of, you can't just be a racing driver anymore. You can't just rock up and do the driving, especially if you're coming from a background that hasn't got the funding to allow you to do that. So it definitely made me a more, I suppose, astute business person. But I know, and my dad says the same thing, if he had the money in the bank, if he was a multimillionaire like Lance's dad. You'd be spending the same amount of money on me. you know, when I was younger, I used to be really bitter about those that had funding, but as you get older, you realize, my dad would have done the same for me. So there's no point in being bitter about it. And, know, you just dealt with the cards you've got. So make the most of it. Absolutely. And at the end, once you're on the track, it's all level. can't, can't, you can't pay someone to get out of your way while you're trying to overtake them in in a car. I don't know. Maybe it might have happened in the past, but we just don't know, do we? You mentioned there about kind of the backing, the support, the becoming kind of your own business person, effectively your own marketing manager, your own social media manager. It's someone we actually spoke on on the show a couple of months ago and we were chatting with Connor Daly, who's obviously over in IndyCar. And we're talking about like the pros and cons around social media ⁓ as it pertains to young drivers getting that support. Where would you come down on that? Because we've seen... I mean, I pick out the example, I'm not sure how aware you would be. There's a young Irish guy called Max Hart who was racing in TCR and he's doing quite well for himself. He's racing Macau, he's doing quite well, but a huge, almost all of his backing comes from the fact that he's generated himself quite a decent social media following and does quite well there. So, but on the flip side of that, you know, a lot of people might say, well, what if you don't get the social media following and if you don't get the backing through social media or... If you rock up to a potential sponsor and you don't have a hundred thousand followers, they laugh you out the door kind of thing. Where do you come down on the pros and cons of how social media has come into racing in general over the past couple of years? think it's, you've got to try at least, but also on the flip side of that, if you've got a hundred, 200,000 followers, whatever, but there's no credibility behind it. You haven't got the skills to actually deliver on circuit. You can create a very nice looking portfolio on social media, but actually the reality of it is, can you speak in front of an audience? Can you have a professional conversation in commercial situations and stuff like that? And a lot of people struggle with that. They'd like to be that. And I think that's what people kind of show on social media, that this is the kind of person they want to be and they aspire to be. But actually the reality sometimes is they can't do that. you know, Yes, presenting yourself properly is really important, but you also need to have the stuff behind it that actually people bind to the person. So what they're getting on social media is a snapshot of that person, but actually the reality doesn't come until they meet someone face to face and they're put in a situation where, you know, you can't hide behind a screen and you can't choose which parts you want to show when you're in. the thick of it on a race circuit or you're in a high-pressured meeting. You can't fake it all the time. you know, I think it's not the be all and end all, but I do think unfortunately in the world that we live in, it is really important to try and build at least something that looks professional. You don't have have thousands and thousands of followers, but just something that looks like, do know what, actually they're taking the time and the effort to do this because effort goes a long way, you know, in showing that you're actually hungry and want to work and earn something rather than... you know, expecting it to be handed to you on a plate. So that'd kind of advice that you might give to some young drivers who are up and coming at the moment in karting or who are coming into the junior categories who, you know, I will not call anyone out on this, but it's just the kind of thing you see as you're flitting around when you're engaged in motorsport and this sort of thing, the algorithm shows you a lot. Some might show that the glitz and glamour of what the camera expects to see. As you said, you don't see much of the, maybe the results that maybe you really should be seeing. And it's more about the fun side of it, but you're not seeing too much of the work. Would that be kind of a, maybe a learning for some people coming up to keep it as honest and professional as you can? think it's just about having a balance. And some people really cut out all of the kind of personality based things, I call them, and it's just properly, this is the result. This is what I did. I'm racing here and so on. I'm all for people having a character. Like that's what sets us apart and that's what fans buy into. That's what brands buy into, you know, is the person and the character. But obviously there's got to be a point, you know, you can't be a bit of a gimmick. You know, you have to be able to, I'm going to say about having credibility behind it. mean, like being good on the circuit and being able to, you know, the sponsor isn't going to invest in you because you're just quick on the circuit. You're going to need to speak to their investors and so on and so forth. You you need to be a bit more of a round package rather than just a driver or someone that can just take a nice photo and put it on social media. Something else I wanted to chat to you about, just while we're still on kind of your racing career. Obviously this would have probably made headlines quite around the place back in 2021. Not long after we spoke to you actually back then when we first met. So apologies if anyone on the team might have made a jinx on this one, but obviously the crash that happened in... Circling the Americas towards the tail end of the 2021 W Series season was quite a bad one. I believe you broke your back on that, but you were back in the car for the following series. So the great story of recovery, of just determination. So what was going through your head at the time? How was the recovery and what was driving you, pun intended, to get back in the car? I can't really tell you other than just something within me. I think it's you know, Obviously breaking your back is quite a scary position to be in. With my own fault, I can't blame anyone else other than the sausage cabs being there where they don't need to be. But ultimately I drove over them. It's a weird bit of a freak accident in terms of lots of things coming together to make that happen in the way it did. But then having said that the following day, there was a kid that did the same thing in an F4 car. So there was two people that broke their backs within the space of 24 hours. So thankfully when they did remove the curbs, it just meant they were starting to listen. And I know through the following year, Ted Kravitz was someone that was kind of beating the drum quite a lot about it. And there was a big movement towards obviously trying to make the circuit safer because technology moves forward, things get safer and safer. So the track should also do the same. And I think for me, as soon as I was in the crash, I knew straight away what I'd done. I think before my wheels had even touched down, I was thinking, right, how do I recover from this as quick as possible? You know, this isn't ideal. I wanted the off season to rehab another injury that I'd been carrying. So I was like, oh man, I've just created like even more work for myself now. And yeah, as soon as I kind of was in the hospital, as soon as we got the news that I definitely broke my back, it was like, okay, so what do need to do then? Like, what do I need to do to fix myself? Can I be fixed? this fixable? Like what's the situation? Can I race again or not? You know, there was a lot of questions over the months afterwards where I was recovering that, you know, I had to have some really honest conversations with myself and really ask myself some probably quite uncomfortable questions. And, you know, I set up calls with like my spinal consultant and ask him some questions that I maybe didn't want to know the answer to, but actually it's what I needed to do to make myself feel comfortable to get back in the car again. And there was obviously a lot of physical rehab. I worked with some really good physios and some strength and conditioning trainers that tried to get myself back into a position to get in the car for the start of the next season, which was only because it was the end of October. And I think the season thankfully started a little bit later. I think it started in May, the start of May, but there was pre-season testing in March and I couldn't do it. It was just a little bit too close. So I went into the championship pretty green, but I was just really proud of myself that I was able to actually get in the car again after, I think it was like six months in total. And I'd been in this neck brace and back brace for four months. So I was about six kilos lighter than I should have been just because of the muscle wastage. I didn't have time to build it back on. So I was quite deconditioned. I made it and, ⁓ yeah, finished the season. was that first session back in the car? Because even as a total civilian, like, and I'm sure some people might be able to relate with this on this level, like I've been in a quite a bad car crash on a motorway before, broke the car off, was in an awful stage. And my dad called me that day. said, you better drive a car tomorrow or you'll never drive again kind of thing. And I know a lot of people who have been in accidents, even just on a motorway, which obviously is bad, not a pain crash that you'd see in racing sometimes. But I remember that first day back in the car and I would never be a nervous driver, but it scared the shit out of me being behind a wheel again. So I can only imagine I have to break you back that it was probably maybe not the easiest day or was it? What was that first day back in the car like? didn't really know what to expect. And the first round was at Miami, which was a street circuit, obviously brand new circuit to learn as well. And I forget actually that this happened, but in the first practice session, I was going down the kind of back section where it leads you onto the kind of long straight. It's kind of a really long. corner and then it straightens out. So actually you're flat out, you know, going pretty quick, probably 130 odd mile an hour and you can't see what's around the corner. And I knew from driving on a SIM, I noticed I'm not going to face a hairpin at the end or whatever. But I just remember at one point I was like flat out going through it and I was just thinking, what am I doing? What am I doing this? What am I doing? And I remember lifting off the accelerator and be like, I was feeling like maybe just about to start panicking. And then I was like, you've done this for 20 odd years, get on with it. And then that was it. I didn't have any thoughts like that again. But yeah, I forget that that happened. And it was a really strange moment because I've had crashes before. Granted, I've not had many of them, but you don't think about it. The big spa crash with W series. I literally got out of the car. If there was another car there, ready to go, I'd have just strapped myself in and cracked on and I wouldn't have thought anything different about it. But when you hurt yourself and you hurt yourself to the point where it could change the rest of your life, it changed my thought process and it changed my mindset, which is frustrating, but to be expected. And there was a lot of work for years and years, even now still, to fix. the mental side of it, you know, once a bone's fixed, that's one thing, but actually fixing the mental side of it is something that's a lot more difficult. I'm sure it was. I can only imagine again, this is, this I think is the divide between us plebs and professional racing athletes of any level, because I've seen some atrocious rugby injuries and they get them popped back in and they go back out and hit each other, which I played rugby for years. I couldn't do that. But I always find it fascinating in that level of competition and athleticism when You know, we've seen it in motorsport a lot. mean, even recently in Formula One, obviously you have Ramon Grosjean with that horror crash and he's still racing to this day. His hands are a little bit burned still, but he's still racing at Niki Lauda famously back in the day. Even to give him his Jews on the other side, Lance Stroll, he broke his wrists in cycling a couple of years ago and was back six weeks later in the car and scored and finished score points on his return, which was super impressive that a lot of people were like, how the hell did he do that? Like fair play to him, top marks. anyone would have forgiven them for taking longer off or not recovering or anything like that. So it's incredible that the mindset and the work that professional athletes, racing drivers in particular do to get yourselves back in the car. And the last one for me, kind of in relation to that, do you have any superstitions? Do you any racing superstitions, like any rituals or anything like that that you have to do, but you get in the car, maybe you develop them before or after the crash, anything like that. So I've only got one. And actually I didn't think I did because I'm not a very superstitious person, but there's one and it... makes me and whoever asked this question laugh. So if I go into public toilets on the race weekend, whichever cubicle going, I've got to keep using that same cubicle. So I'll have it where I'll walk into going and someone's in there, so I have to wait. But if I then have a rubbish race or rubbish qualifying and I'll go into another cubicle, so then it resets again. But if there was two seconds for me to use the toilet and get to the car, then I would just use any of them. I'm not bothered about like putting the right glove on or the left boot or something like that. I'm very much a, like I decide my own destiny. I decide my own fate and whatever's at work, you know, crossing on the stairs, walking over three drains, like it doesn't bother me. That's that's a quite a good one. I like that. I'm going to move it on now. I'm going to pass it over to Sock. He's got a couple of questions about kind of your post-racing career. Yeah. Thanks very much, Abby. So we spoke with. Derek Daly a couple of months ago, and he spoke about kind of coming towards the end of his racing career and how he kind of stumbled into the TV element and the commentary element and how he kind of found a buzz from that, that he was kind of starting, he never thought he would be able to feel outside of behind a wheel under the, above the four wheels of a racing car. So I suppose the question to yourself to start off really is around that TV aspect of motorsport. Is it what you expected? Do you get a buzz out of the, out of making TV? What's your take on that side of things now since that you've moved towards that? I think I like, I've not done much live TV. So I think that's where the buzz comes from a little bit more in terms of like, shit, better not mess this up. Otherwise it's going to go out to millions of people and they're all going to, going to know about it. But certainly doing the the episodes and the shows and recordings and stuff like that. It's a lot of fun. I wouldn't say it gives me the same buzz, but it's certainly something where I enjoy it. I'm still trying to work out what it is that is going to give me the buzz when the next stuff comes. I've been really trying to work it out the last couple of years because I'm at that point now where I'm looking for the next branch onto the whatever the next... part of my career is going to be. And there are lots of different things I'm kind of trying out, but none of it's kind of leading me down there to what it might be. You know, thought about maybe kind of driver management and stuff like that. know, I get, certainly when I've done coaching with kind of younger drivers and, you know, you're with them for a long period of time and you really build a good relationship with them, you know, their highs are your highs as well and their lows are your lows. ⁓ You get a bit of a buzz with that. you know, through someone else, I suppose. ⁓ Which I think, you my dad's actually said that in response to me, obviously he had his racing career, but actually he gets a buzz out of me and my career and when I do well as well. So it's probably along those lines, but yeah, I wouldn't say no to doing more of the live stuff and the kind of punditry and commentary based things, but yeah, just working out which, which one to do, how to do it, which avenue to go down really. Yeah, that's really interesting. It was a question I had kind of further down, but just because you kind of touched on it, I think it would good to kind of go into it a bit more around that coaching element. So obviously we've heard other drivers anecdotally say that they hate flying because they're not in control. So when you're out there and you're coaching and you've got one of your your mentees that are out there and they're racing and you're saying, okay, you're getting the buzz out of it. Would you get more nervous on the sidelines watching them and seeing them trying to implement some of the stuff that you've talked about rather than it being you in the cockpit in control. Yeah, definitely. I hate it. Sometimes I have to not watch. One of my junior drivers, he races in Junior Saloon, so it's Little Citroen Saxo and he's 15 years old, Ollie Smith. And I've worked with him all last year. He really has kind of grown in his kind of skills and then he's just an all round racing driver. He's really getting to be that really nice rounded of person. He's come into the season, we've done a couple of preseason tests and he's been absolutely rapid, really like right attitude, ⁓ know, taking risks, but not too much and just got that really nice balance. And the first round, he put it on pole position for, he basically did a triple pole. And the first race, it was at Donington Park and he's out in the lead, but I can tell he's looking in his mirrors. So I'm watching this on video. And I can tell he's looking in his mirrors as we, I remember us doing the same. If someone's chasing you down, it's always easier to be chasing someone rather than looking and thinking, he catch me? he was looking in his mirrors and he was then not driving as well as he could do. Cause he was like rapid. He should have just disappeared. And then I was thinking, Ollie, come on, come on, like, look forward, look forward. And I was like, I can't watch this. I can't watch this. So I turned it off for like a couple of minutes and then I was like, I need to have a look. And thankfully by that point he'd realized actually, you know what, I'm quick enough. I just need to crack on. And he pulled the lead and he won all three races. yeah, it's a similar thing for when my dad races, I struggled to, like if there's a red flag or anything like that, I'm like, where's dad? Is he back? Like what's going on? yeah, you definitely, you're dragged on that kind of emotional rollercoaster. And that's because I care, you know, I think a good coach genuinely cares about their clients and their customers and you know, I want them to do well. So yeah, I don't mind feeling like that and having to deal with those emotions. And actually just interesting on that, I suppose, everybody sees the weekend element of motorsport, the couple of practice laps, the going out, the qualifying, the racing, but they don't really get a good understanding of the amount of time and effort that goes into some of the midweek prep, the coaching, the stuff that you'd be working on. Maybe you give us a little bit of an insight into. What that actually looks like for a junior and upcoming drivers now at the moment. Yeah, think a lot of it actually, certainly since COVID has been a lot more, ⁓ SIM work and you'll see these young drivers that have never even driven a car on track and they pick it up super quick. And that's because every single day they're on the SIM, you know, journey, even they're four or five hours blind around the track. So there'll be a lot of that. And even, you know, when you go up to high level, you know, when we're preparing for, for racing. in W series, the week leading up to it, you'd be on the sim two, three times, like on a professional sim setup. You'd be making sure that you are preparing with the notes. If you'd been there before, you'd bring out your notes from the previous time, remind yourself of things that, breaking points and so on and so forth, and maybe things that you struggled with. Then you'd also look at different external footage from race starts. You'd look and see what happened here. know, if I'm going to start about this level, like where's my best option here? Just so you kind of visually have other options kind of in your head. Now, obviously you can't predict a race, you can't predict what's going to happen at that time, but if you can kind of get a bit of an understanding and a grasp of what might happen, then you're more prepared in that moment if something does happen that you've already kind of visualized in your head. Obviously, if you've got ⁓ a race that's abroad, then you have to factor in jet lag. So a lot of you know, slowly moving your body clock onto the country's time zone. So going to bed earlier or staying up super late and then, you know, trying to move it forward just a little bit because in even two or three hours progress that you make there can make a massive difference, you know, whilst you're actually on the race weekend. And so there's a lot of stuff that goes into it. know, certainly if you're trying to compete at a high level, then this is the kind of stuff that you need to be thinking about. no, absolutely. And do you find yourself as a coach that you're more kind of a push coach in terms of saying, okay, this is what you need to do. And if you try it that way, or are you more kind of more in the pool being like, well, have you thought about trying it a different way or have you thought about approaching the corner differently or, know what I mean, kind of bringing them through it or are you kind of more, when you see something, you're like, no, no, just, have to say it. Yeah. You can't waste time with trying to lead them towards stuff. ⁓ you know, ultimately you're there to make them get quick as soon as possible and as safely as possible. It's very much, you've done this great. That's fantastic. This is costing you four tenths. You're breaking a bit early. Like, so then if you're kind of waffling around things and talking around the subject, it's just words. Like you need to just condense it and have it in really nice, digestible kind of bullet points almost. When they're on the circuit, they're thinking, ⁓ yeah, breaking too early. Yeah. Okay. Yep. Four tenths of lost here. So I need to make sure I don't mess this next corner. So it just helps them to make progress quicker effectively. You know, there'll be still be some stuff where if they are struggling to alter something and they keep making the same mistake again and again, then you'll start to try and lead them to different avenues. I think it's important to know your customer as well. You know, what might work for one person isn't going to work for another person. you know, there probably are some clients of mine where you do have to lead them a little bit more. But the quicker you can get the information to them, the more efficient it's going to be. Yeah. So obviously you, you brilliantly outlined, I suppose, the amount of work and time and even the elements there in terms of like changing your body clock slowly over a week ahead of moving to a completely different time zone. Is that then something that like when it came to like the grand tour then, so obviously you had extremely busy professional racing career. Now you're kind of in more of kind of the coaching. Was it you that approached or did they approach you or how did that come around? With the grand tour? They approached me over an email and during that time, it was 2017, I didn't actually have any racing. So I didn't have the budget and I'd had a one-off race. So I basically got scouted to do a GT3 race in Blancpain or now GT World Challenge. I'd never raced a GT3, I'd never driven a Monza, so I was properly out of my comfort zone. Back then, I probably didn't prepare. I didn't know any better really. Now I look back and I think, my God, you could have prepared for us so much better. But we did well, we won the race. It was a fantastic opportunity, but then nothing came from it. GT came at a really good time because I was looking for that outlet and looking for something to like... give it my all and basically got invited down to the test track and there was five or six cars lined up and it was like, right, set some lap times. There's been some time setting them already, but just go and let's see how close you can get to the times that have already been set. So I knew I was going to be super fast. I was going to be in the trees because this was my one shot at something really cool. And there's a spin-off to that. There could be other opportunities. yeah, thankfully I didn't go in any trees and I was quick enough to. to be offered the position. And yeah, it's opened up a few doors for me. It's obviously given me a really good platform and it's just really cool to have on the CV. Yeah. And was there anything specifically like a moment from us that is really memorable for yourself or is just even the experience of working in that environment and just having fun with cars? I think just the overall kind of being in it and having fun, know, the entire production team. are lovely. The three Musketeers, they're all great as well. It is genuinely, as cliche as it sounds, a really big family. We just used to have such a laugh with each other. There was a lot of respect for some bloody good camera operators and some really good sound operators. Everyone was at the top of the game to be asked to work on that show. It was just nice to be a part of it really. I grew up watching the lads on TV. you know, to be kind of associated with them or, you know, some people hold me in the same regard as them. Like it's just bonkers, you know, because they are kind of national treasures really, aren't they? Let's be honest. Whether you love them or you hate them. Well, look, I suppose everybody has their own opinions there, but yeah, brilliant. And as you say, the absolutely fantastic camera work, except when there's animals involved. Yeah. And then, suppose kind of finally then from that, have you ever considered then yourself, is there any kind of show or you were saying there about live TV? there something there that like, is there a nut there that you'd love to crack in that space? Yeah, like I'd love to do some sort of car show, some description. You know, I've thought about podcast stuff as well. I've got like a podcast kit down there, to be fair, that I've not done anything with. But I think, you know, people love watching people and People love watching people mess around with cars and do stupid stuff. I've done a few ⁓ episodes on a, used to be Carfection was the brand and it was basically something called Track Mode where we took a random car, of spoke about the car and the specs on the car and so on. But it was about the circuit as well and the history of the circuit. And it was just like thrashing a car on the track and just having a laugh. It did really well. And then the parent company kind of shut it down. So I'd love to have the opportunity to do something like that and work with someone, but I'm not a very creative person. So I need someone else to do the creative part. And then I'll just do the chatting and the playing with the cars. But yeah, TBD, think a little bit. Just got to work out what it is. You've got the passion anyway. And I suppose, I don't know for myself anyway, it's that kind of passion that really draws me to personalities. Like I love watching somebody, like it could be anything. I've gone down rabbit holes on YouTube that I won't even admit to, but it's when there's the passion that is involved, like you just get hooked into it. So I'd absolutely love to see some of your next endeavors, whatever they may be. Yeah, I'm sure there'll be something. I have a chat with a few people and I've just got to make sure I do it right. And it's with the right people and it's done properly. I don't want to do something half-hearted. ⁓ Even just a basic kind of shoot and like it costs money and I haven't got the money to spend on that. And you kind of need to do it and build up the following a little bit and then you can attract the sponsors and investors and so on. But I just haven't got the free time at the moment to put something together and spend some time on it. So yeah, if there's anyone listening that wants to do something, hit me up. As Sock said, like from a creative point of view, there's just a wealth of opportunities, but it's probably just the timing point of view. mean, like you've done a bit as well with, with like Hammond in like the smallest cog and stuff like that as well. Haven't you? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I've done a few random things like that and it like, I love it. It's always good fun. Um, you know, I'm lucky that I'm kind of given a platform to do stuff like that, but it's just a bit like what I spoke about in terms of the production team that are involved on the grand tour. Like you need the experts in these, these things too. They don't need to be at the top of the game, but someone that actually knows what they're doing properly and can put something really, really smart together. Because I think if you've got the good quality stuff, the kind good quality presenter or characters and the good cards, then that's when actually it really hits the ground running. I guess I'm probably a little bit of a perfectionist. I like to make sure that I'm doing something that I'm 100 % like wowed with. Maybe I just need to lower my standards and just give it a go and see what happens. Mareid, I'll pass it over to you for the next couple of questions. Thanks, Sean. Yes. As a female fan, you're seen to be as basically a pioneer in motorsport for females and also to be on these programs with the three lads that we all know and some of us love as well. We've seen changes since you've come in that more people are interested in motorsport, more women in particular. Have you seen... change in motorsport in the more recent years and what has been the biggest change in terms of women in motorsport? think participation has gone up. I started 24 years ago and I could probably count on one hand how many of the female carters were doing it at the time. They probably didn't fill my hand either. It was probably kind of three or four. And you look now and actually grassroots level of motorsport, there's a lot more females in it. And again, you look at all the different championships, pretty much each championship you look at, there's going to be one, a minimum one or two girls in it. I think that's come from... championships like W Series and F1 Academy. I think W Series really was the blueprint for inspiring females that they can get into the sport. And also they don't have to be a driver, they can be an engineer or mechanic or a strategist. I think it's really important that that investment into females in the sport at the moment that carries on. But I also think. It needs to be the right investment and it needs to be done right. And that's probably where there's no, well, there's no guidelines on what is right and what is wrong. And I think there could sometimes be the investment in the wrong place because it's making other people money rather than actually this is the way it should go. And it might not make you as much money in the long run, but this is actually how we're going to get a female into F1 or the top levels of other motorsport. And to be fair, if you actually look. Probably F1 is the only championship where there hasn't been a female that's actually been really successful at top level. You've got the likes of Chadwick and so on in ELMS and in WEC. You've got the Iron Dames. You had Zanika Patrick in IndyCar back in the day in NASCAR. There are other people, Michelle Mouton in Rally-in. There are a lot of females that have been super successful in various forms of motorsport, but the investment still needs to be there if... they are looking to try and get a female into F1. And it needs to be the right person, you know, not just because they're really good looking, like they need to genuinely have that drive, have the talent and have that, you know, good support network around them because otherwise it's not going to work and they're going to be half-hearted at it and everyone's going to go, see, I told you, girls aren't good enough to be in F1. We all know that's not the case. ⁓ But it just needs to be the right person given that opportunity. Yeah, I think we can agree on that. There's loads of females that have done really, really well. It's just cracking that last one series that we need to do. You mentioned there W Series and F1 Academy. Obviously F1 Academy is now part of F1 Weekends and it's now broadcast as well on Sky Sports and on F1 TV. What are your thoughts on F1 Academy and do you think it's a good next step from your series or do you think it's kind of stayed the same? I think F1 Academy only exists because of W Series and W Series only failed because F1 Academy was going to start. They are different in a sense of W Series was fully funded and you won money in it. F1 Academy have to bring budget to the seat. Yes, it's subsidised, but it's still a lot of money that you've got to bring. So in that respect, it's a bit more business, but it is fully supported by F1 as well. It's not being allowed to fail. It has to succeed. And part of certain deals that come through is that F1 sponsors have to invest in F1 Academy, which is fantastic. Do I think whether it's a solution going forward? No, because it shouldn't be females racing and males racing. a lot of, I think the general public forget that F1 Academy isn't an end destination. F1 Academy is the start of the journey. It's for the most inexperienced drivers to learn. Some of these drivers haven't done anything before iPhone Academy. Some have done carting, some have done a bit of pre-season testing, but a lot of them are really new to it. They're going to make stupid mistakes. They're going to do moves that are not going to come off, and they're going to crash and they're going to spin. It's not to say that, well, yeah, how enough females are in motorsport. No, it's not. If you put a load of lads at the same age in the same situation with the same background, the same thing would happen. I think what needs to be maybe looked at a little bit more is when the championships won, the investment into the champion needs to be more long-term and it needs to be more. Abby Pullen won it and she had the driving GB3. And then this year, she almost didn't make the grid because she didn't have enough money. That is bonkers and it shouldn't be like that. If they're going to say this is the kind of pathway to to get a few million F1, then it should be funding into FIA F3. So it's still on the F1 calendar because GB3 in the UK is great. The cars are great, but there's no publicity. You've gone from millions of people watching to like hardly anyone watching. So they need to keep it on the F1 weekend. And then it's easier for the fans to follow the journey of that champion as well. But ultimately the difference in cost is in the millions to be able to do. ⁓ you know, to keep on that journey as well. So just more money. Funny that isn't it in motorsport that needs some more money to make it just want to jump in with a really quick one, because it's something we spoke about with Chris McCarthy, the Formula 2 commentator when we spoke to him last week. And I'd heard this wild idea on TikTok or something like that of, you know, we've seen Formula 2 in particular, like the champion doesn't always get their drive in Formula 1. And we've seen a huge amount of talent just have to... Either retire or go off to other series that are maybe not quite at the level they deserve to be. And think of the likes of Kalamailat or Felipe Dragovic, for example. And I that we've seen lots who have qualified, Gabby Bortolet and stuff like that, but it's not a guarantee. You don't win F2 and step up to F1 unless you're really, really lucky. We floated this idea of should there be a 12th team in Formula One where every year the only two drivers in that are the winner and runner up of Formula Two? That is the prize of Formula Two. You get your ride in Formula One one year. You get to impress after that, get development drivers or side to the team. That's your driver. get the only chance to prove yourself in Formula One is to prove yourself in Formula One. You mentioned there like Abby Bolling, she stepped up to GB3 and she very nearly missed out this year. And it wasn't because she wasn't good enough last year. She got a podium last year. She was fantastic in GB3 last year. It wasn't, ⁓ she's a girl that we have to keep her in. She was brilliant. She was racing and beating all the guys in the same series as her. But like you said, it's not FIA Formula Three. Do you think that needs to be maybe the next development because F1 Academy is effectively like Formula Four level. It doesn't need to be, at least for the time being, not to be given handouts. As you said, it shouldn't be one versus the other, but to give it that extra level of next step support of this team is for the F1 Academy and maybe the GB4 champions each year to step up into FIA F3. ⁓ Yeah, I think there needs to be something like that. But what they would probably argue is that it's a massive step up, like an F4 car to FIA F3 is huge. So that's where GB3 is kind of middle ground. So if you were to do that step up, then there needs to be a really intensive preseason testing in the car, which is costing a lot of money. You know, probably a similar kind of level where you could get a really good season kind of. or certainly very good half season, part season in GB3 under your belt. And that's part of the problem as well with these opportunities of like a paid drive in or funded drive in GB3 or something like that. You know, it doesn't cover lots of testing and the test is the important part because you can have the opportunity of a drive, but you're going up against another driver whose dad's a multimillionaire that's done 25 test days and you're rocking up there with like maybe five maximum under your belt. So it's not a level playing field and you know, it's never going to be life isn't fair. Life isn't a level playing field. But if the whole point of it is to try and get females into these kind of higher echelon motor sport, then you need to address it and you need to make sure that these girls are experienced enough. So when they get into these series, they've got half a shot at it. 100%. Do you see something similar to how Formula 2 drivers are? that are being brought into practice sessions in Formula One. think that the F1 Academy drivers would benefit from that in FIA F3. Potentially, it would probably be better to just do it externally. So you have just private test sessions because again, that's a lot because it's such a massive jump. like, know, these kids that are F2 drivers going into F1, they do like 3000 kilometers behind the scenes before they get anywhere near F1. FP1 session. know, something like that, yes, I think definitely would help just to have mileage in the cars. But the cost of like one day in an FIA F3 car is like eye watering. So it's a lot of investment for someone that might not then want to on might not be good enough to make it into the series. know, potentially you could have it where yes, the prize is GB3 for a season, but also you get X amount of testers in FIA F3. But ultimately if someone says to you, actually, do you know what? Like I haven't got the, I'm really struggling to get the budget to do FAF3. So why would I want to use those five testers in one of those? Whereas actually I can probably add another hundred grand to my budget to do GB3 properly and try and win that. ⁓ It's kind of weighing it up on what you can capitalise on more, I suppose, in terms of results. Yeah, for sure. It's hard really to find the path really, isn't it, so far? And hopefully they do find a path. On that, do you think there will be a female driver in F1 soon? I think it will be probably in the next five to seven years. I think that potentially where there needs to be a bit more research and development in is seeing what like the peak age, the perfect age of a female to enter into and be strong enough and to drive the F1 cars properly. The problem is if you haven't got the budget to kind of move through F3 to F2 and so on, then you never, can train in the gym, but it's not like being race fit and it's not like being car fit. So if you're not having those seasons in F3, in F2, leading up to F1, then you're never going to build the next strength and the intrinsic muscles that you need. I think it takes longer for girls to bulk out and make that muscle. So I think actually probably the age of someone that should be ready and quick enough to go into F1 is probably, here's Elvis, is probably like mid-20s, certainly no younger, mid-20s to, sorry, to like kind of mid to late 20s, I think is the sweet spot. So if you look at that kind of age, Abby Pulling is where she needs to be, but... in terms of she should have maybe done GB3, this year should be an FIA3 and then looking to try and move forward into F2 and so on. You just need that accelerated kind of pathway, which is obviously, spendy, spendy, spendy. It's very, very expensive. But it will happen, I'm sure. Yeah, I think it will too. With everything that's happening and more people going into courting as well and starting with the grassroots, I think it'll happen soon as well. If there were any young girls listening, right now and said, I really want to be an F1 driver or driver in any other racing championship. What would your advice be for them? That was a really good time to start because there's lots of investment in females in motorsport. So depending on their age, if it was someone that was fairly young, I'd say do a couple of seasons of karting, learn the ropes there and then try and decide which kind of route you want to go down, whether that's into sports car or you're trying to kind of do the F1 route because you'll have to pick. championships accordingly, just to basically suit what it is that you want to do. You know, having said that, if you can get in a single seater early, it does teach you a lot. You know, a GT car is just a lazy, lazy car in comparison to a single seater. So if you can really hone your skills and something like that, then, you know, the rest of it is just worrying about the weight of it. That's all. But yeah, don't give up, stick at it, ask questions, you know, be confident. Do the research, work hard and capitalise on the investment that's been made at the moment. Sound advice. And I hope anyone that is listening takes on that advice and we have more females in motorsport. Moving on now to another topic. We have previously worked with Richard Morris and Racing Pride and we know that you've been involved in Racing Pride. Can you tell us more about your work with Racing Pride and what it's about and the impact that that has made on motorsport? Yeah. So I kind of... refused to be part of Racing Pride for a good couple of years because I didn't really, you know, I'm an openly gay driver, but I didn't want it to kind of become a personality. That's never who I've been. I want to be known as a really nice person who happens to drive a car really fast and is with someone that I care about. But then I just thought, actually, I've got a really good platform here to potentially make a difference and inspire a lot of people. You know, I just thought by attending events and being authentically me, you know, not flying the flag in, know, shoving it down people's throats or anything like that, but just by being present and being myself, then that inspires people. And I had a young girl actually come up to me at a charity event and she said, you know, I was really struggling to come out to my parents about my sexuality. And she said, you know, I kind of found you and followed your racing. And actually I was really inspired and given confidence to kind of authentically. come out and be myself. she said that my parents were great about it. And I wouldn't have had the confidence to do that if you hadn't been open about it yourself. So that's when ⁓ the penny dropped for me. And I thought, actually, do you know what? Yeah, this is worth doing. And I'm proud to fly the flag, really. And it's nothing to be ashamed of. And there a lot of very, very successful. people in the world, know, not just drivers, not just in motorsport, but you know, something to be embraced and we're all different. And if we're all the same, it'd be really boring at end of the day. Certainly, certainly would. Have you seen a difference then in inclusion in motorsport in recent years? Yeah, I think there has been a lot more kind of effort put into making motorsport a bit more of a welcoming place and actually sport globally, to be fair, lots and lots of different sport. know, whether that's for female, the pushing of kind women's sports or whatever background you're from. And I think it's been really good to see the change in motorsport in terms of embracing everyone and making it a safe space for everyone. I know sometimes depending on where you go, some fans are not quite as welcoming as others, but I think on the whole there's been steps made forward in that. with thanks to drivers like Lewis Hamilton and Sebastian Bettel and others that kind of get on board and help and are really good allies as well. yeah, ⁓ I think there's more to be done, but I think we've definitely made a lot of progress. Certainly have. It's been pleasure speaking to you and listening to your journey and some of the insights that you've given. ⁓ I suppose from listening to you, there's a lot that can be taken into, I suppose, just regular. Not even just racing, know, just, kind of the hard work, the graph, the effort, the time that you put into it. And even that kind of perfectionism, really interesting. And thank you very much for taking the time. That's all right. It's no drama. And also we're not, you know, in terms of perfectionism, we're human and we're going to make mistakes. And actually, as long as you use those mistakes to learn from, like they're positive, you know, it's, it's, and if you look, you look at the kind of analogy in motorsport, like if you make one mistake that might cost you two tens. If you're still thinking about that mistake at the next corny, your two-tenths might become five-tenths. You need to box it off quite quickly, learn from it quickly and move on from it. Don't be too hard upon mistakes because again, that's what's going to... It's inevitable it's going to happen because we're humans. If you can try and maximize or minimize the risk, the chance of failure, then ultimately you're going to increase your chance of success. Just working on that and grabbing the low hanging fruit as well as to where you can... complying those easy gains. think it's really important because sometimes it's overwhelming. You know, you think, oh my God, I'm at the bottom of this massive mountain. I've got this to learn, that to learn. Like just grab the low hanging fruit to start off with and then you'll get the ball rolling. Before we finish, we've been a of a quick fire, five or six questions. First thing that comes to your head. What is the favorite car you've ever driven? Course 911. What is the hardest car you've ever raced? Uh, Porsche 911. I had a feeling you might say that. If it's not racing, then probably the Stratos, the new version of the Stratos that I drove on Grand Tour. It was awful and it just wanted to try and kill you all the time. That was an interesting episode. You could certainly see that that thing was a skip box just on TV. What is your favorite track in the world? Alton Park. Oh, good shout. British track. I like that. I like that. Who do you think is the most underrated female driver right now? Alice Powell. Sorry, I'll make the best one. Yeah. Because I've not said that. Who's the driver, any sport, any time in history that you would have loved to have raced against? So no, obviously. Goes without an explanation, doesn't it? Yeah, it does. One change you think motorsport as a whole needs right now? Get rid of track limits. You'll have every junior carter and every professional racing driver in the world. Yes, yes, more of that. Let's track Clippets. And finally, I know we haven't really spoken about it too much, but we do this with all of our guests. We're to clip it towards the end of the year. If I give you a fiver right now to predict who you're putting your money on for the 2026 Formula One World Championship. Kimi Antonelli. That is two in a row for Kimi Antonelli because Chris did the same. So that's interesting. predictions for Kimmy. So thank you very much for that. That will do it for us. Thank you very much for listening. We have been Everything Trackside. I've been your host, Sean. Thank you very much, Sock. It's been a good one. Thank you very much. Thank you very much, Mairead. You've been very busy. You can go and relax now. Thanks. Go on for a cup of tea now. Yeah, and thank you to our special guest, Abby Eaton. It's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for joining us this evening. Thank you much. Thanks for having me. We have been Everything Trackside. Hit subscribe wherever you are listening. We'll be back with another interview yet again. We are going to fill this April. with some amazing guests and we are getting a little bit closer to Formula One being back in Miami in a couple of weeks. Thank you for listening, I've been Sean, we'll talk to you next week. Bye now.