People-Pleasing. Overachieving. Perfectionism. Dr. Aimie Apigian on the Biology of Trauma Patterns That Hijack Your Health—and How to Heal Your Nervous System for Good

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What if the anxiety, burnout, or fatigue you're feeling isn't in your head, but it's in your biology?
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Well, Dr. Amy Epigen joins us to break down how trauma gets stored in the body and what it really
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takes to feel safe, energized, and alive again. A double-board certified physician and founder of
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the biology of trauma, Dr. Amy Blends personal experiences with cutting-edge science to help us
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understand why talk therapy isn't always enough. And what to do instead, whether you've been in
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survival mode for years or just feel stuck, this episode is a powerful reminder that healing
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doesn't have to be a mystery. It just has to start with the nervous system. I'm your host James
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Barry and welcome to everyday ancestral. Please enjoy this next episode. What was going on in your
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life when you realized traditional approaches to trauma weren't cutting it? This first happened when
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I adopted. I don't know how many people know this about my story, but it was during medical
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school that I foster parented and then adopted. It was not my intention to adopt from the beginning.
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I thought I was just signing up to be a foster parent. I wanted to use my time in a meaningful way.
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I had a few months between finishing my master's and jumping back into the third year of medical
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school. And I decided to become a foster parent during this time. I had no idea James that it would
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lead me to adopt. And I remember the phone call. There was a four-year-old boy. He needs a home
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and it was an immediate yes for me. My my heart was so wide open and I'm in my mid-twenties.
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So I have a lot of hope, you know, I think I know everything, but I also I also think you remember
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thinking that way in your 20s. I remember my 20s yet. Cocky and self-righteous, yeah.
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Much so that was me as well. And I just knew that young kids who are coming from hard places,
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they needed love. They needed understanding. They needed compassion. And with stability,
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they would heal. And I just wanted so much to be able to help them have a better life and a real
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future rising above their childhood. So this was all in my motivation for becoming a foster parent.
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But when Miguel came, he had already been through 20 different moves, not different placements,
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but had been moved around 20 different times. And he was only four. He was at the place where he
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had been so traumatized, not just from what placed him in the foster care system, but then during
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his time in the foster care system, that he was so violent and aggressive and
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dysregulated that they were not able to place him in any home that had children or pets.
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They saw that I was a medical student headed to be a doctor and they're like, she's the perfect one.
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No, you weren't necessarily studying trauma at this time. What kind of medicine were you studying?
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I was in medical school. I was in Southern California, Loma Linda University to be specific.
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And I was doing an MD, so my medical training, but then also getting a master's in biochemistry.
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And this was the environment in which I then became a foster parent.
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You clearly weren't dating, you weren't married. Because like, what kind of person decides
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to like take on a foster kid, let alone adopting a kid when they're in medical school? I mean,
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that's just crazy. But you clearly like, you saw yourself as having time. It was just that your
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heart was so big at that moment. My heart was so big at the moment. I had time in the sense that I
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had a few months before jumping back into medical school. And so I literally was going into this
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just to be helpful and foster parent for those couple of months. That's what I thought.
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By the time they called me and had a child that they wanted to place with me,
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I was already back in medical school. I was already back in internal medicine,
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rotation, no less. And in the third year of medical school, and I still said yes, James.
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So now you're getting into a window like of my own trauma patterns that would make me say,
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yes. But I was completely unaware of that being an unhealthy thing or that even being a
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manifestation of my own inner people pleasing, my own inner need for accomplishment to feel worthy.
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And I was completely unaware of that. That would all come out when I took Miguel in and then
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would go through the hardest thing that I've ever been through as a result. But that's how I
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discovered all of this about myself. It was so well hidden from even myself. I'm sorry that you
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had to go through that because that sounds really intense. And I think about this a lot that we really
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do need contrast to understand not only our placement in the world, but our placement within ourselves.
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Like without contrast, there is no change. And I find everyone in the health field,
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everyone had to come from somewhere to get to where they currently are. So I do think that this is
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very powerful. That this is the traumatic or the contrast that happened to help you see that you
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had trauma that you had these things going on inside you that were dictating your choices.
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And I often thought James that if he were any easier, I wouldn't have had the insights that I've
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had or had my life changed, my career path gone down a very meaningful path that I wouldn't I
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wouldn't have even been aware of if he hadn't have prompted this and been so tough that I had to go
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on a very different journey than what I was expecting in order to try to find answers for him.
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What a gift he was for you in that sense and really for all of us because now where you are
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and what you specialize in is helping so many people. So you ended up helping him find another
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adopted family. What was that process? Because really it sounds to me like you accepted him to adopt
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you did that for you said what six years hell on six years. So that's an incredible amount of time
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first of all to do that while you're still in school. But now you're being faced with your own shadow
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side. I imagine you probably didn't actually have time to really deal with that shadow side.
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And so then you had to make this decision which I imagine was probably rock bottom.
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What was that process and then how did you treat yourself after where you just beating yourself
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up? I mean sorry I'm talking a lot here but it really triggers me because it's like
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I know that when people have for example miscarriages they beat themselves up. They just are like
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what did I do wrong and I can just imagine that you were so hard on yourself and it makes me feel
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really sad for you. So I would love to better understand that. The short version of the story
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is that I poured myself into Miguel and talk about losing myself in the process needing to put
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myself on the sidelines because I have a child who James he was so deep in his trauma that he was
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talking about killing me would attempt to kill me. My daily life was at threat. I would sit down
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at the table for dinner after being in the hospital all day long seeing patients and we'd be having
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dinner and he would pick up his plate. He's two feet away from me and throw it right at my face.
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So this was my environment where I didn't have the space to do any of my own personal work that was
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surfacing as a result of this. It was pure survival which is why it became so necessary for me
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to find answers. It wasn't well it would be nice. It wasn't well I'm trying to help him. It was like
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no I'm trying to survive. I'm trying to get through today and he is going to have a very
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awful future if he's even alive because he's doing things that are putting his own life at risk and
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he's five. He's six. So it became so necessary just for literally like physical survival.
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So as I'm throwing myself into this I'm realizing that the therapies that are the evidence-based
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therapies are not working for him. They're actually making things worse. Talk about rock bottom.
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Here I am. I'm a poor medical student. Don't have any money. Don't have any time. My heart had been so
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open for this experience thinking that it was going to be this version of parenting and motherhood
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and I was getting this version and I couldn't even talk about it with my friends because they're
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dating. They're getting married. They're doing normal 20 year old things. I'm trying to keep a kid
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from killing me that day. I can't talk with my colleagues because they're telling me Amy like
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what were you thinking? We all know that these kinds of kids end up in juvenile hall and then they
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go on to have addictions and then they go on to have a life of broken relationships. We know this.
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Why are you setting yourself up for this? It was this constant message of hopelessness and
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discouragement even if they understood the situation and most of my friends had no clue what I was
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going through and part of the issue and I know a lot of parents who adopt can relate to this.
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Miguel was one way in public with other people and a very different way with me at home.
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He would put on his very charming self which he had refined over his years of being in foster care
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system. He knew how to charm people but he couldn't hold it together. It was only a matter of time
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and then it would be the explosion and the unraveling and the falling apart because he had had to
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do that. So my life just became increasingly smaller and smaller and smaller until I couldn't even
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leave my home because leaving my home meant that he was going to have a rage later on and it
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was going to be four hours on the floor holding him just because I had taken him out to the store
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and these were the kinds of things that would trigger him. So this was the context. Now there was
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something very significant that happened at that time that I'll share with you which is that
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there had been an adoptive mother who had adopted a boy from Russia. It was a big thing in the
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news at that time because she put him on a plane and sent him back to Russia. There was no family
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to accept him there. There was nothing there for him. She was just so done, exhausted, ran out of
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resources that that seemed to her the only thing for her to do to survive. Everyone else was
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horrified. Oh my goodness, how could she do this? Inside, I was like, I get it. I get it.
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And what an awful place to be where you're a parent and you don't see how you can be okay,
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how you don't see how they can be okay and it's that bad that you're putting your son who you
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adopted on a plane back to Russia. That was the context by which then I'm experiencing this and
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I'm realizing for some people this doesn't get better. What is my future going to be like? What is
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his future going to be like? Am I even going to be able to have a career because how do I even work?
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I took off a whole year after graduating medical school just to be at home with him. I had no
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money which means that I had to move to Oregon. This is when I moved to Oregon to live in someone's
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basement for free so that I could work for her and take care of her children so that I could be at
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home with Miguel. I cored everything into him and trying to find answers for him. It was an
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experience that few other people will ever have to go through and thus that can't really fully
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understand the the extent of the intensity of it and the rock bottomness that I experienced all
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the time of down on the floor on my knees in a fetal position crying because I am doing my best
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and my best is not good enough. What happened to me help you finally have the strength to just say
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I'm not the right person for him. He's not the right person for me. What kind of came together to
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assess that? So James here's the hardest part of the story is that I actually found all the answers
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that he needed. I am one of those people again talking about my trauma patterns. I understand
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I am one of those people that when I set out to do something there is no way that I would have stopped
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and I kept going and I did everything. This included putting them into boarding schools. I mean
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I did everything. Anything and everything I was still all in and it eventually worked. I found the
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last piece that he needed. It actually happened when he was nine and we did a week-long therapy session
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of a specific therapy that then it worked so well that I went and got trained in it because I needed
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to understand it but it built on the foundation that I had created but it was the last piece
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that he needed and I remember James being out it was in West Virginia where we were at this place
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doing this therapy and every single day I was seeing such dramatic changes inside of him
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that it was my dream come true. I mean it was more than what I had ever thought would be possible
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given my experience with him up until that point. I remember day one day one I pick him up from
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the therapy and that evening he's like hey mom can I do the dishes for you? And I fell down on
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the floor. I think any parent would fall down on the floor if their kids said that to them.
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Any parent would fall down on the floor and especially me given that what I usually would hear would
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be mom I want to kill you tomorrow. What was the therapy? The therapy is what led me to start to study
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the biology of trauma. The therapy actually was an art narrative process that broke it down in
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a very specific segments of one's inner experience during a trauma. Not what was happening on the
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outside the inner experience of that trauma and you map each step out of that inner experience on
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a different sheet of paper so that there's a total of eight pieces of paper and you walk through
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the whole thing and then you create a different ending where now you are safe and sometimes that
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means like well then right here right now because I've never felt safe in my life or sometimes it
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was if it was a cracks and you're like well no I was able to go to the hospital and they checked me
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out and everything was fine and who the story is over but so much of what I was learning at that time
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was that the body holds on to trauma and it holds on to it because it never got the sense that the
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danger was over so for Miguel he's still living in his past he's still living in the middle of
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my mom might give me up my mom might send me away my birth mom is neglecting me my birth mom is
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gone I don't even know where she is and when she is here she's not emotional present she's on
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substances he was still living in that sense of danger I didn't know this I thought that by bringing
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him into my home and giving it time that he would adjust and he would be able to realize oh I'm
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not in danger anymore but one of the first things I had to learn about trauma was that it's actually
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not what our mind thinks it's what our body believes and our body needs a reset to safety and most
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people including Miguel including myself had never had a reset a complete reset to safety so our body
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was still living as if it were in the past even though our mind could consciously look around and
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well no we're we're fine now we're in a different home now we have a different mom now she
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loves us our mom before it isn't but this one does that that is all cognitive reasoning and that
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has no place in the actual determination of our body of whether we remain in danger mode or not
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so what I hear you saying is that trauma is stored on a cellular level it's in our body
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and that talking through it is not necessarily the remedy the remedy is something physical but
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how does that look maybe walk us through what you would advise someone if someone came to you
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and it had stored trauma how would you work with them physically there are three levels that need
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repair and so we have our nervous system and specifically our autonomic nervous system where the
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trauma is actually stored in our autonomic nervous system and it runs this constant background
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calculation of am I safe or am I under threat it's a subconscious calculation it's happening
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every moment throughout our life because it's the job of our nervous system to keep us alive
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so it has to keep track of am I in danger or am I safe right now do I need to start running
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or can I relax and rest right now so there's very very very basic right and it would be
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amazing for people to understand like what are those cues of danger that our body receives what
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are the cues of safety because they're not necessarily what we would normally think of
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and that's the whole point is that then as we experience the impact of trauma on our body
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our own body is creating a feedback loop and giving signals of danger to our nervous system
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that say we're still in danger an obvious level is the mind so we can have self-talk
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and we can tell ourselves you're stupid Amy and that self-talk will be heard by my nervous system
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and my nervous system will be like oh it sounds like we're under threat because we're stupid
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the self-talk actually is important but the other two levels are even more powerful
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there is a body tissue level which is involving the movement of our muscles
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and when we have been in danger and powerless to protect ourselves our body retains that memory
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and it forms this belief a programming through our neuroplacicity that I'm incapable of hard things
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so then when stressors come even if we could actually respond to the challenge
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our body says oh no no we're not capable of hard things we should just shut down we should
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just not even try so there's this element of stored body memory in terms of our movement
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and our ability to move through hard things versus just getting overwhelmed and getting stuck
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the third level though is the biology and that's what you were referring to which is the
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actual cellular level and what happens is that as trauma impacts our cells and systems of our body
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it disrupts our gut it disrupts our mitochondria it disrupts our hormones it disrupts our
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cardiovascular system our lymphatic system our detoxification system because as we all know
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if we are needing to run from a tiger to survive right now now is not the best time to be eating a meal
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and cleaning out our toxins and lymphatic system and so all of those systems shut down including
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our metabolism when we go into a trauma response one of those steps of the inner experience that
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we want to map out on this art narrative therapy that I took Miguel to is this shutting down
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in order to survive our metabolism shuts down in order to survive this is where a lot of the fatigue
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and exhaustion comes from where it's our body actually saying I don't think you can do that much
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but you're not listening to me so I'm gonna shut down and force you to do less I'm going to
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shut down and force you to feel tired say that you won't go out and do all these things or follow
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your dreams or whatever it is that that you're experiencing this fatigue and exhaustion from
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and so that then becomes a source of ongoing danger when our cells and our systems don't get
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that reset to safety our metabolism stays in this energy conservation mode our hormones remain
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imbalanced our digestive system becomes imbalanced and we develop all forms of dysbiosis or inflammation
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changes in our digestive system that create more problems like nutrient deficiencies and all of
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this together is now becoming a cure of danger to our nervous system because our nervous system
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looks at our inner biology and says oh look at all those toxins oh look at that inflammation in the
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gut oh did you see the inflammation in the brain did you see that imbalance of hormones do you
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see the mitochondrial compromise do you see the oxidative stress and our nervous system is looking
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at all of that and saying because of the damage that's still present in our biology we don't have
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as big of a capacity so we need to stay small in order to try to stay safe and this is literally how
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then we get stuck in our trauma patterns so you were suggesting then that one of the forms of
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healing trauma is through functional medicine is through actually healing your body
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this is what i'm saying like it's a requirement and that is why talk therapy james will never be
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enough because you're only addressing one level with talk therapy you're not addressing how trauma
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impacted your biology and the repair that is needed and so what i started to see as a physician is
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that all of these people were coming in they're telling me that they've done all these years of
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therapy and yet their body is still impacted by their past for me that is not true healing true
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healing is where you are living free of the effects of your past not that you've erased the past but
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you're free of the effects of it it's no longer holding you back but as a physician i'm i'm
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seeing still seeing so many people with some physical health condition that is a result of
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store trauma in their body and they're still living with that impact that that is not a
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full and complete healing that i would like them to be able to have so when someone first comes to
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work with you are you first focusing on identifying the trauma or are you focusing on identifying the
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health issues what a great question so here's the crazy thing as i'm starting to learn all this
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i am now faced with a question well what do i do with my patients at this point i had changed my
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career so i'm no longer in general surgery residency yes i did four years of general surgery
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residency i have touched and cut the vagus nerve and then i moved to addiction medicine so that i can
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really work with trauma because i felt that addiction is one of the most clear examples of how
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trauma reinforces and becomes different patterns so i'm working with my patients and i'm realizing
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like where do i even start because the mountain is so big there is so much repair to do especially
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with someone who's become dependent and addicted on substances there's so much to do where do i
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even start and if i try to throw it all at them they're not successful at all and they get stuck
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so i had to really practice and figure out where am i starting with them the craziest thing James
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i as a physician i'm thinking i need to start them with diet and supplements and lifestyle
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no actually the most important place to start them that gave them the fastest results
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was teaching them how to shift their inner nervous system state they're coming in they're anxious
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they're stressed they're overwhelmed and they don't know how to shift their own state
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and i realized that if i could get them to learn 21 different exercises somatic self practices is
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what i call them we're at home they don't even need me to do this they can learn how to shift their
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own inner state they were experiencing more changes in their physical health than any other
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thing that i was prescribing that doesn't stick that doesn't last because they still have their
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biology to repair they still have their mindset and their self-talk to repair and so i would have
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learn how to shift their state and then they would notice that throughout the day it would fall
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back into stress and overwhelm and that is normal that's what is going to happen and tell you
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put the other pieces in the place and that's where i still see a lot of people like going to therapy
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they experience relief when they're on the yoga mat they experience relief when they're doing
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their meditation but not long after they've left their mat guess where their nervous system is
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back in survival mode whether stress and anxiety or just the overwhelm and the collapse and the shame
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and the depression it's not sticking because their nervous system is still getting all of these
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cues of danger from their body from their biology from their own mind and so now would come the
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second piece but the first piece if i wanted them to have the fastest results in their sleep
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in their energy and their depression anxiety GI issues it was these somatic self-practices where they
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on their own had learned how to shift their own state in the moment whenever they noticed
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that they were in the spiral of stress or overwhelm obviously there's 21 you shared
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that you share and and is this your first book that you shared them in i don't go into the details
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of these somatic self-practices in my book the biology of trauma i'm painting the picture of
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you've got to address the biology of trauma here's what the biology of trauma is i actually
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walk through these different steps of the art narrative process of one's inner experience
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that even creates this damage and then where do we start where do we start we have to start with
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creating that felt sense of safety and this is how we do that we do that through a very specific
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very deliberate and intentional process of learning to shift our inner state to a felt sense of
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safety is there one you can share like if our audience were to take away you know one or two things
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that they can directly start applying to their lives the minute this is done so James now you get
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to be my guinea pig let's do a quick body scan give me any place in your body where there's
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any kind of tension it's just uncomfortable in any way doesn't need to map my traps you know
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right under the neck right yes okay all right so here's what i want you to do give me a number
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for that level of discomfort what are we doing ten five what's the high whatever you want this
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is your number so whatever you want okay let's say that five is the highest and one is no tension
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so this is about a two and a half three two and a half all right so now we're going to forget
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that and now i want you to bring your arms up and bring your hands as close to your shoulders as
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you can and we're going to push away this big rock that's in front of you James can you see it
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it's huge it's massive start pushing it away put your muscle into it have to push slow because it's
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so big and you're going to go all the way until your arms are fully extended going as slow as
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you can pushing this big rock away oh i can see your muscles engaged i've got my fingers feeling
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like they're digging into this rock push that thing away push it away when you get to full arm
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extension just pause there we're not there yet but when you get there just pause there at full
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extension and now let them drop yeah i actually don't feel it it's a one right now so one right now
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that's how simple like literally when we started i could feel the tension and i don't feel the
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tension anymore this is how easy it can be to shift your inner state wow that was like 30 seconds
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whatever it was 30 60 seconds yes the problem is is i teach someone an exercise like this and
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they're like that's too simple that's too easy it it should be harder and i'm like it's not
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if you think that things need to be harder well then that's probably a trauma pattern that we
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should talk about at some point but this idea that it actually doesn't take much time
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to shift our inner state and when we shift our state our pain levels change so a lot of people
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are like i'm in pain i'm in pain and they're focused on the pain actually what we need to do is
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take our focus away from the pain do a somatic self practice that engages our body in a specific
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way and there's a very specific reason why i have you push a rock away there's science behind that
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but when we do that when we engage it with our body with this movement somatic practice
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that's what shifts our inner state and that's what changes for your case the pain level
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it's not actually by focusing on the pain it's by shifting the state it's interesting because i
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have heard before that and this is really ties into everything you're saying is that when a bird
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hits a glass a pain of glass what usually happens is you know if you've ever seen it they hit it
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and then they kind of shake off the like they kind of shake their entire body and then they fly away
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and they talk about how that shake is nature's way of releasing the trauma of hitting that glass
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the physical trauma of that and so it seems to me like the somatic practices are the you know human
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form of that release of physical trauma what are some other somatic practices that you would advise
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people to look into yeah i've got a whole five day nervous system reset and so what i've done is
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i've pulled five exercises from my 21 day journey program and i offer them to people who are
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purchasing my book so this can be a gift for anyone orders the book they get my five day nervous
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system somatic reset that has five of these very simple and yet very effective tools so another one
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would be as we look at the anatomy our stomach is one of the most vulnerable areas of our body
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our lungs are important our heart is important for keeping us alive our brain is important for
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keeping us alive but they are all encased in bones our stomach is not and if someone were to hurt
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our stomach there are vital arteries there that we would die and so knowing this we can actually
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use this to create a felt sense of safety in the moment so another very simple technique is to
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bring in some kind of pillow or blanket or if you have a purse or if you have a book just anything
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will work to be able to just put it over your belly tug it in a little bit and even just talking
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about it now like my body is like oh i remember that feeling and it melts into the sense of safety
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so knowing the science knowing the anatomy knowing our nervous system and what it needs
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one of the reasons why i do the pushways because space gives us a felt sense of safety
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space to think space to breathe we are so rushed in our society that we don't feel like we have
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space and creating a sense of space is creating a felt sense of safety for our nervous system
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it sounds to me though like not only is that pillow or that you know that protection
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creating space but it's also a form of touch it is and you know we had Mary Rudek on our podcast
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and she talked about how she believes that it's our societal kind of separation from intimacy and touch
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is actually one of the leading causes of trauma and it's and i notice even when i go to sleep at night
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i like to i usually i have like i have a multiple pillow so i have one pillow for my head but then
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i have another one that i'm almost like i like to just almost rest over my head so i can feel the
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weight or i put sometimes on my body but i just want the weight of something i sleep with a weighted
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blanket for that reason and when i am wanting to really settle it deep into my body i've got a
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weighted next all i've got a weighted lap pad that touch and that sense of gravity is very helpful
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for my body to get that sense of even knowing where my body is in space so touch is one of those
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things that we do need as part of our development for even being able to connect with our own body
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and with different contraptions and devices and social changes that have happened over the years
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it is true that children are not getting as much of those essentials for their
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neurodevelopment as they used to they don't get as much time on their belly which is an essential
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component for neurodevelopment they may not get as much touch and so they're missing part of that
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element that they use to connect with their own body and then they don't feel their body as much
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James and they don't even feel things like i'm hungry and tell their starving and they have to eat
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right now but actually if you were more in touch with your body you would have felt the hunger
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pains starting earlier you would have known okay i need to start preparing myself some food to eat
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but we're not feeling our body we're not connected with our body the same can go with thirst or
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temperature changes or going to the bathroom we don't notice these things until it's now an
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emergency because we're actually living disconnected from our body do you think we are co-creating
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this disconnection with kind of the newer methods of media where they're short fast cuts
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when we were younger you you rented a movie from a you know like a blockbuster and you only
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had that one movie and it's like you either watch the whole thing or you didn't watch anything
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and now kids can flip around to 20 different movies at immediately we have access to so much now
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at the drop of a dime do you think that's contributing to that disconnection oh i love this
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conversation because it really is i see it more of a need to meet the demand for where our nervous
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systems have gone our nervous systems given the disconnection have to have faster
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moments of activity and adrenaline and dopamine because we're not wired to feel more connected
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and to be getting dopamine from meaningful connections and so given that this is how nervous
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systems have developed in our generations now that's what is needed to grab their attention
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it didn't use to be that way we had nervous systems that that wanted more time to focus and to
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think and be creative that is not the nervous systems that are coming out of generations today
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being an addiction medicine physician is very much related to this because you're working with
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a different type of nervous system and when i'm working with a nervous system who's coming off
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of a substance for example i can't expect them to be able to focus for a long period of time
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it has to be fast it has to be rapid because they are so dopamine deficient because they
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were getting their dopamine from their substance that i know that if i don't provide that dopamine
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rush for them i've lost them and they're going to go back to their substance because that's what
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they feel that they need in order to survive we need dopamine we're just meeting people where
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they're at and that's the problem is that this is where the nervous systems are at that they
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actually need that to fill alive now but how does it change then i mean so are you you know using
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the addict and let's just say it's a screen addict you know someone is always on their phone
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doesn't have to be you know alcohol but it you know it can be that most or all the media is so
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fast cut particularly if the kids are on tiktok or youtube or something like that that's so fast cut
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and triggering what you're talking about how would someone change change this is the big topic
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and really change is dependent on how much trauma a nervous system is already holding the more trauma
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burden that a nervous system has the harder change will be which means the slower that we need to go
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so i would treat it the same way that i was treating a nervous system that's become dependent on
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alcohol to feel okay i'm not going to immediately cut you off of everything because you are going to
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die you're going to quit you're going to leave like i'm never trying that again so instead
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we manage the withdrawals and there is a withdrawal from screen time there is a withdrawal from
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this type of dopamine activity there is a withdrawal and we need to honor that so that as we're
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making this change we're bringing in other things that bring in dopamine so what other things bring
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in dopamine movement exercise joy laughter play well then bring those in because you can't expect a
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child or an any nervous system to to leave something and not have a replacement you've got to
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bring in the replacement first and then there's less need for this to fill the need but it is
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feeling a need parents need to recognize it's feeling a need and we've got to figure out how else
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can i have that need met so that the dependency on this isn't as strong and then i can make change
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more effective because i've created some other way for them to have that need met this is just
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still going back to the contrast right is like someone that is where their current state is one
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thing they need to experience that similar outcome but in a different form which is the contrast
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something i'm always kind of fascinated about with addiction is do you think that part of
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the addicts addiction is that they keep calling themselves and labeling themselves and reinforcing
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that they are an addict with their language what a great question and when you ask me that i think
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of my patients who have auto immunity i think of my patients who have depression anxiety and they
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would come in and they would say my depression my anxiety and i was like whoa are you sure you want
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to call that yours because if it's yours it's going to be much harder to leave behind
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whereas if it's the depression the anxiety it's already putting some space between this is me
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and this is just something that i'm challenged with at the moment but it's not me it's not mine
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so i think that this type of word and the labeling and how we refer to our conditions is very important
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so it takes me back to the three levels that need repair the mind is one of them and how we talk
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about ourselves how we talk about what we're being challenged by is really important the words
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that we use are really important it's so amazing because i i'm hearing you talk about things
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specifically around you know addiction i'm hearing you talk about things around trauma around your
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field of expertise and yet there's so much crossover with with what i do you know and how would
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i focus on how i focus on you know getting micronutrients frequently micro dosing frequent small
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amounts how i'm always talking about meeting people where they currently are but just making small
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changes to their diet so that they can start to feel better in their body so like it's different
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intentions maybe or maybe it's just different language but it's such similar intention can you
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share a little bit of what kind of lifestyle you've taken on to support you know your trauma healing
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this has been a big one and when i look at the similarities that you're mentioning to me this
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comes back to like this is just this is how we know this is truth is when it's obviously that it's
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a principle of nature it's a principle of the body that we do micro dosing of things that we need
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that we meet the body where it's at and then we guide it gently to the changes that will best help
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it so it's true like it's crossover because these are fundamental principles that we're learning
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about what the body needs to truly be and its best health so my journey with food started
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interesting James i actually grew up vegetarian and then vegan so i grew up vegetarian around the
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time that i was age 10 11 my family went vegan i didn't even have any meat until i was 31 and i
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had a fish for the very first time at age 31 i thought that this was the healthiest way for me
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to feed and nourish my body i struggled with so much anxiety i struggled with so much depression i
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struggled with so much exhaustion but i was young i was used to learning how to push through things
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and as a result i was on a lot of bread i was on a lot of sugar carbs and i
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never felt really well but then i i never felt well so i didn't i didn't know that feeling well
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was a thing and that other people didn't fill this way because this is how i just always felt
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so it wasn't until that first fish talk about contrast right this is our theme for this episode
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James the contrast i go from that to being on vacation in Cartagena Columbia with my Mexican mom
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and i'm realizing it no one is going to know if i eat a fish no one is going to know i'm not going
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to offend anybody it'll it'll be a secret no one will need to know and so with my mixing him on
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like the one person i felt safe with in my life at that time she and i are like okay we're going
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to do this i am going to have my first fish i had this amazing fresh caught fish with uh coconut
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rice it was one of the most amazing meals of my life but i remember within 30 minutes James
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the anxiety depression lifted my energy lifted and i was like whoa what is this it lasted only
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about 24 hours and then it faded but it created enough contrast for me that i was like
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i want to lean into this so several weeks later i'm back home i'm out to dinner with my cousin
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he's having a fish and i'm like okay i'll have a fish too it was still so much of the obstacle
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for me to be able to have meat because i'd always been taught it was bad so i have a fish
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same thing happened James i feel so much better within minutes of eating that fish and then it faded
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but by then i knew that this was the association isn't that wild though because you know you're talking
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about how oh talk therapy with trauma so the talk therapy is your your brain thinking that some
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this is healthy and which and that's basically how your diet was initially but then once you
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set on a cellular level ate something that shifted your biology you had truth you know
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for what your body what your body needed exactly like this was so much of my journey to learning
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there is a biology of trauma and my biology was keeping me stuck in these trauma manifestations
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of fatigue anxiety depression auto immunity so it has been quite the journey for me to go from
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vegan to now right at this moment i'm on a carnivore diet right wow huge and in i've witnessed
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huge shifts in your physicality as well from it like you your body is completely shifted during
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the time i've known you completely shifted and so i don't know if this if this is you know
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forever i don't i don't know and one of the areas that has changed the most for me is
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my ability to not need to know i don't need to control things anymore i can let my body say right
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now i need to be on a carnivore diet and this is how i feel best and i'm like okay i don't understand
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it but i want to support you and if this is how you feel best then i'm happy to support you
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it's no longer the no i shouldn't or i should like that word has gone out of my vocabulary
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it's all about how can i support you because when i support my body and my biology my body can
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support me this lifetime is about loving oneself and through the art of loving oneself we then
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can love others we can't actually connect with others more than what we are connected with ourselves
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we can't love others more than we actually truly love ourselves
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i love it so tell us you have a new book that i do coming and or has launched by the time this
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episode aired oh you yes the biology of trauma how the body holds fear pain and overwhelm
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and how to heal it wow well we're gonna have in the show notes ways for people to get it you're
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gonna be including those five somatic practices that people can utilize in their life with every
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purchase of the book doctor Amy it's always a pleasure getting time with you so thank you so
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much for joining us today we're gonna put in the show notes how people can find you but why don't
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you just verbally tell people how they can continue having conversations in connection with you
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i would love to connect with them and biology of trauma.com is one of the best ways to do that
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that's where they can find my five-day nervous system somatic reset for when they purchase the book
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and i have other resources and guides for them on what is the biology of trauma what does that mean
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for them and what they can do about it and social media where can people find your fast cutting
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videos i'm kidding my fast cutting videos my dopamine creating videos youtube i've got a large
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youtube channel i post twice a week on there i do have my biology trauma podcast i'm on linked in
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and instagram and those are places that they can connect with me and what's the handle just
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doctor Amy doctor Amy biology trauma either one of those will get you to me.
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well thank you thank you for sharing your gifts and thank you all for joining us on this journey
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uh stay curious keep asking questions thank you so much for joining me on every day ancestral
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if you enjoyed this episode hit subscribe so you don't miss the next one you could find
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the show notes links and resources mentioned at eatpluck.com that's e-a-t-p-l-u-c-k dot com
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and hey if you know someone who'd get something out of this share it with them too stay curious
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live well and keep it ancestral