Cartoon Princess Spoofs: Disney, Betty Boop, Popeye, Merrie Melodies, & More! - With Eli Sanza

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Hi everyone, it's Jonathan, and today we have
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the second of two episodes that were held over
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from last year's look at Fairy Tale Princesses.
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As before, I am joined by Eli Sanza, and we are
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talking about a much wider variety of animation
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than the previous episode, where last time we
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looked at a handful of adaptations all from two
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different television series. Today we are talking
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about a whole bunch of different takes on our
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three princesses from a whole bunch of different
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animators throughout early animation history,
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and mostly from the era of World War II. We have
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Cinderella flying an airplane to a USO party,
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Sleeping Beauty sleeping through her short while
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Popeye and Bluto fight over her, the Seven Dwarves
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selling war bonds, and Snow White... Snow White
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doing a whole lot of things you wouldn't expect,
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as we are tackling two infamous versions of her
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story, which are infamous for entirely different
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reasons. Firstly, Betty Boop's bizarre take on
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the character, which has a ton of early 1930s
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nightmare fuel, but kind of in the best way possible.
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And then one of the most infamous cartoons in
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animation history. Like, if you know Looney Tunes
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history, you already know what we're talking
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about. We'll be finishing our discussion with
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Cold Black and Deceban Dwarfs. We'll close out
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our episode on Snow White. For now, we'll talk
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Cinderella, because even though we did an almost
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two -hour episode on Cinderella shorts last year,
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somehow we managed to miss one. One that I know
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of, anyway. So we'll cover that first and kick
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off this episode with Cinderella Goes to a Party.
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I think we'll start with a Cinderella short that
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I completely missed the last time. It's funny,
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because when I started looking for shorts for
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Sleeping Beauty and Snow White, I could hardly
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find... any like i knew a few and i found those
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easily but compared to cinderella which there
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were so many that i missed one completely yeah
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kind of surprising that we had missed a cinderella
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story because there were so many and like and
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there are surprising few amount of others it's
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like cinderella is the popular one i guess i
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guess so i don't know why i expected there to
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be so many of the others because i guess just
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because like i knew cinderella had so many i
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figured well the others probably did too because
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there's like i know with other fairy tales when
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i eventually get to those like little red riding
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hood there's going to be a bunch of little red
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riding hood little pigs jack and the beanstalk
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like i know there's lots of cartoons for a bunch
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of other popular fairy tales i just assumed that
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Sleeping Beauty and Snow White would be the same,
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but I guess not. I remember when I was a kid
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and I watched these cartoons all the time, I
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could have sworn there were a lot of Snow White.
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And Snow White was a popular movie, obviously,
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so of course they did do it. They did parody
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it, and they did adaptations of it and stuff,
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all that stuff, which is not surprising because
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it was a huge film around the time when the golden
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age of animation was. And all these shorts were
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taking place. So I, like you, I assumed there
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would be a lot, but yeah, it's like a surprisingly
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short supply. There are other animated adaptations
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of them, but for these specific episodes that
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I've been doing with you, I wanted to do ones
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that were like shorter than 10 minutes and before
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1970, like stuff that probably could have been
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shown in a theater. Some of these are from TV,
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but the theater age and the ones that are under
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10 minutes are what I was thinking of. And for
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those, there really wasn't a ton of Snow White
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and Sleeping Beauty. Yeah, no, that makes sense.
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Because even if you're talking about the television
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cartoons, I still think of the 40s, 50s, and
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60s as kind of like the real core of the... golden
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age, so I feel like you can forgive people for
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including the TV cartoons, because I still sort
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of feel like it's part of it. Yeah, I decided
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for these, I wanted to limit it to before 1970,
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because it could go on forever if you start trying
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to do every single TV adaptation and parody.
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That has potential to be a different episode
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for a future time, and I just... i didn't want
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to like have too wide of a range for these no
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that makes sense that makes sense you're separating
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it from but before the 70s and after the 70s
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is a really good uh i think that's a really smart
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move because there was a real change in like
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animated shorts in that period yeah plus the
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ones that are after the 70s start getting a lot
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longer because like then you get start getting
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into like tv specials oh yeah i i didn't want
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to be including things that were like a half
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hour i really wanted this to be shorts so yeah
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and like and then that would have like been taken
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up a little way more time for me to prepare for
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so i wouldn't have even enjoyed it i wouldn't
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have enjoyed that anyway well let's start with
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the cinderella one that i missed because i don't
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know how i missed this one because this seems
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like something that would have been fit right
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in with everything else. Normally, like the algorithm
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starts feeding me everything once I start clicking
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on one. So I don't know how this one never popped
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up. But from 1942, we have Cinderella Goes to
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a Party, which this is one of those that it's
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very much of the time. It's like wartime animation
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with like a modern Cinderella. And I like that
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this one has a plane. We talked about it when
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we recorded the other Cinderella episode. So
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many of them had her getting a car instead of
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the carriage. I liked that this is a wartime
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era short and that she has an airplane. Yeah,
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that I thought was funny because it's like literally,
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this is like a fairy tale in the middle of a
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fairy tale and literally just a modern World
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War II era plane shows up in the cartoon. This
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one, it starts out like it's going to be like
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a normal old fashioned version of Cinderella
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because you have Cinderella in rags, like in
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a dungeon slash kitchen working. You also have
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the ugly stepsisters, which you only see in silhouette.
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And I liked the gag where they look like you
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could tell they're going for really ugly, even
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though you can only see a silhouette. But then
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they put on dresses and their shapes turn into
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like they're like bulgy and. misshapen, and then
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they're conventionally beautiful. Yeah, they
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look like models all of a sudden. Which is the
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type of humor I expect from the 40s. They are
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always doing jokes like that. Yeah, and speaking
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of the types of humor you expect from the 40s,
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when you go to Cinderella, you have her finding
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a genie instead of a fairy godmother, and of
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course the genie is blackface. Oh yeah, I noticed.
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And then as I was putting my notes together,
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I was like, we'll get there, but I was like,
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okay, so we're starting with Blackface and we're
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going to be ending with Blackface also. Yeah.
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Yes, another thing I'm unfortunately used to,
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because I've seen so many of these cartoons.
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I've seen maybe over a hundred cartoon shorts
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from the 40s, and this is regular. And the blackface
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humor, you see it all the time. Yeah, I guess
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this is more of a mild version of it, because
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this character isn't here for very long. He's
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kind of there more as like a gag, because she...
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finds this genie and he realizes he's in the
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wrong story and calls the fairy godmother to
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take over. Yeah, exactly. Right. It was, like,
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thankfully short -lived. And then, I'm not sure,
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but it looks like the fairy godmother gives her,
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like, a flamenco dress. Like, it's one of those
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dresses that's, like, huge in the back, but,
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like, it, like, tapers up to a V in the front
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and it's, like, all really fluffy and frilly.
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That was the vibe I was getting. It was like
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a flamingo dress. That's what it felt like. And
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another thing that cracked me up, like there's
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so much in this that's like very of the era.
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The fairy crashes in on a broomstick and says
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she represents the local American fairies union.
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And tells Cinderella she's going to the royal
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jam session. Right. Right. You know, I do appreciate
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those touches because, like, whenever something
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is, like, you can feel like you can tell when
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it came out, I always appreciate that because
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it makes it a little bit more fun. It does. I
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know a lot of movies, especially these days,
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kind of get flack for making things too present
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in the time that they're created. It does make
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them less timeless, but it does make for a good
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time capsule in later years. Oh, yeah. And as
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somebody who studies film history all the time,
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that's always fascinating to me anyway. Yeah.
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And I think it works better in a short like this,
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because it's not like it's supposed to be a timeless,
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hour -long movie musical that you're going to
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come back to for decades to come. This is a short,
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it's a parody of Cinderella, and I think it works
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perfectly to put in these very specific -to -the
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-time modern touches. And it's also important
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to understand the context of these shorts, because
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when they made them, they were targeting a very
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specific audience. They weren't thinking about,
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is this going to hold up or not? They were very
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specifically targeting for these audiences, and
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so they didn't care if anyone in the future didn't
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understand it. I'm sure there's jokes in here
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that I missed, and in future ones, too, because
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there were a few times where they would say something,
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and I thought to myself, I don't... get it but
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i bet the people of that time knew what they
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were talking about i actually do like have that
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feeling a lot when i'm watching these and i try
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not to get hung up on like not understanding
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jokes or references because i because i know
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that there were a lot of things like from the
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looney tunes that like which are the ones i watched
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as a kid that i didn't understand and like and
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so i'm i'm used to it like i'm like oh i don't
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i didn't understand that and maybe if i was around
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in those times maybe i would understand it and
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then i just move on with my life and i don't
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worry that's how i have to watch it yeah it's
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one of those things where it's like i could spend
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a whole long time looking up every single obscure
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reference and figuring out what they all mean
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to make my notes but like i does everyone who
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may be listening care enough for me to like go
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into extreme minute detail i you know kind of
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doubt it so i feel like if anybody actually cares
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about it that much they would like watch the
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cartoon and do it themselves i don't think you
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need to do any work without like that's probably
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true yeah like if you're doing it for them i
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doubt anyone's gonna care that's just that's
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what i think maybe if i was making like a film
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history show for people to watch then i would
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make sure that everything was very accurate and
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all the details were included but like i don't
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know it's just a fun podcast yeah no exactly
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and i would probably listen to that or watch
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that because like i would like to know like the
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i would like to learn the context of that stuff
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but it's the but it's like it's not essential
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to the like point of the cartoon which is like
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to the to is this entertaining or is it not entertaining
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so i usually like don't focus on that yeah well
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like we said she gets an airplane instead of
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a carriage the fairy godmother changes all the
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aluminum in the house into a plane because this
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is 1942 and there was that's like one of the
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things that they were doing was like collecting
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metal for the war effort to be recycled and i
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did appreciate i did appreciate that touch with
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in where the mice were sort of like upset that
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they didn't need the pumpkin yes that was a good
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touch there was one gag that i i didn't quite
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get like i thought i got it but i thought i would
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mention it and see if you thought the same thing
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when she flies into the party there's this quick
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shot of this like giant servant and there's a
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spotlight that shines through him and it reveals
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he's actually a really skinny guy in a suit that's
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like being it's like held up by an internal cage
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-like skeleton and i was like is this supposed
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to be like the male equivalent of a bustle I
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wasn't sure what they were going for with that.
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That one, I don't really understand the context
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of it, or if that was a reference to anything.
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I just, I think that was just a, like, I assumed
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that when I saw that that was just a simplistic
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visual gag, just because it was just, oh, he's
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not as big as he looks on the outside, and that's,
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ha ha, that's funny. That's what I assumed. Yeah,
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probably. That's probably it. I also liked when
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she gets off the plane, there's a big sign that
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says Prince Charming's USO party, hot music and
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frozen prices. Again, the modern touches I love.
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It's like you mentioned how the airplane was
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made out of like metal and which is sort of like
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a World War II reference because that metal was
00:13:53.139 --> 00:13:55.399
like sort of like a precious commodity, but it
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was also just like a clever, like. visual gag
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to just like turn the plane into like a bunch
00:14:01.220 --> 00:14:04.519
of pots and pans yeah because yeah because cinderella
00:14:04.519 --> 00:14:06.700
if anyone's gonna have pots and pans it's gonna
00:14:06.700 --> 00:14:10.710
be cinderella so that works yeah and then i wasn't
00:14:10.710 --> 00:14:15.789
sure but is the prince supposed to be desi arnaz
00:14:15.789 --> 00:14:19.570
because like his voice sounded kind of like desi
00:14:19.570 --> 00:14:23.230
arnaz to me like he didn't look like him at all
00:14:23.230 --> 00:14:25.590
he was a really short guy trying to remember
00:14:25.590 --> 00:14:27.029
what he looked like did he have like a mustache
00:14:27.970 --> 00:14:32.210
I think so. I've seen so many princes in getting
00:14:32.210 --> 00:14:34.669
ready for this episode. I'm trying to remember
00:14:34.669 --> 00:14:37.629
exactly what this one looked like. I'm getting
00:14:37.629 --> 00:14:40.210
them mixed up. Yeah, like the prince in this
00:14:40.210 --> 00:14:43.809
one. Because I remember I watched a bunch of
00:14:43.809 --> 00:14:48.750
Cinderella princes before in my life. But I didn't
00:14:48.750 --> 00:14:51.990
get any Desi Arnaz vibes. It was just the sound
00:14:51.990 --> 00:14:55.470
of his voice. It wasn't him specifically. Okay.
00:14:56.059 --> 00:14:59.679
just like maybe his accent you have a cuban accent
00:14:59.679 --> 00:15:02.000
or like what sounded like a cuban accent or something
00:15:02.000 --> 00:15:06.259
i i wasn't sure because then after he introduces
00:15:06.259 --> 00:15:09.620
himself it's like they are it's actually like
00:15:09.620 --> 00:15:11.440
they knew each other because he calls her cindy
00:15:11.440 --> 00:15:14.480
like he knows who she is and then he climbs up
00:15:14.480 --> 00:15:17.610
a giant jukebox to change the music which is
00:15:17.610 --> 00:15:19.870
another gag i liked because there's like a whole
00:15:19.870 --> 00:15:22.389
orchestra on top of a giant record and they get
00:15:22.389 --> 00:15:25.149
dumped off the side and then it retrieves another
00:15:25.149 --> 00:15:28.570
record with another orchestra oh yeah i remember
00:15:28.570 --> 00:15:32.389
that gag that was funny and i wasn't sure like
00:15:32.389 --> 00:15:34.629
they're either supposed to be black or maybe
00:15:34.629 --> 00:15:38.250
latin american they weren't blackface so i wasn't
00:15:38.250 --> 00:15:40.649
sure but the music they're playing sounded like
00:15:40.649 --> 00:15:43.490
something that would be played at ricky's club
00:15:43.490 --> 00:15:48.289
in i love lucy Like Copacabana, like Cuban band
00:15:48.289 --> 00:15:51.549
music. If it was supposed to be out of a Copacabana
00:15:51.549 --> 00:15:53.710
type of situation, I know they wouldn't have
00:15:53.710 --> 00:15:55.769
got it from I Love Lucy, because that show came
00:15:55.769 --> 00:16:00.970
out later. Yeah. But it might have, the I Love
00:16:00.970 --> 00:16:03.230
Lucy and this cartoon might have both been influenced
00:16:03.230 --> 00:16:05.950
by that club culture, because this was something
00:16:05.950 --> 00:16:09.169
that was happening around clubs since the 30s.
00:16:10.320 --> 00:16:13.279
the latin clubs like this kind of music and stuff
00:16:13.279 --> 00:16:15.799
like that so i would not be surprised and copacabana
00:16:15.799 --> 00:16:19.539
was like at its peak popularity in the 40s yeah
00:16:19.539 --> 00:16:22.779
i i wasn't sure exactly if the reference was
00:16:22.779 --> 00:16:26.200
supposed to be that specific like desi arnaz
00:16:26.200 --> 00:16:28.919
but it's obvious that they were going for that
00:16:28.919 --> 00:16:32.639
kind of a club feel yeah i'm not surprised you
00:16:32.639 --> 00:16:35.440
made that connection though but then they do
00:16:35.440 --> 00:16:39.669
the conga till midnight at which point she flees
00:16:39.669 --> 00:16:44.210
and the spell is broken and all of her pots and
00:16:44.210 --> 00:16:46.830
pans come back like the plane starts changing
00:16:46.830 --> 00:16:49.809
back into pots and pans yeah the fairy godmother
00:16:49.809 --> 00:16:53.649
has to fly in and rescue her right and then we
00:16:53.649 --> 00:16:56.269
get a montage of newspapers saying that the prince
00:16:56.269 --> 00:16:59.529
is desperately searching for cinderella until
00:17:00.080 --> 00:17:02.179
The final newspaper says that she was finally
00:17:02.179 --> 00:17:05.900
found riveting a tail assembly at Lockheed. So
00:17:05.900 --> 00:17:10.440
I was like, did she escape from her step -family
00:17:10.440 --> 00:17:14.880
or what? She got a job building airplanes? This
00:17:14.880 --> 00:17:19.099
cartoon was like all World War II references
00:17:19.099 --> 00:17:25.660
and very little plot. Kind of, yeah. Yeah, it
00:17:25.660 --> 00:17:28.180
was super fast -paced. And I know animated shorts
00:17:28.180 --> 00:17:31.180
are short, so they can't fit in a bunch of story,
00:17:31.319 --> 00:17:34.720
but it felt really rushed. And the main point
00:17:34.720 --> 00:17:37.519
was mostly just the gags, and that was it. Yeah,
00:17:37.559 --> 00:17:40.880
I felt like that with multiple shorts that we're
00:17:40.880 --> 00:17:42.920
going to be talking about today. I was like,
00:17:43.019 --> 00:17:45.740
I kind of want more of this. They're going too
00:17:45.740 --> 00:17:50.430
fast. Yeah. Like, sometimes cartoons can be fast
00:17:50.430 --> 00:17:52.470
-paced and, like, last six minutes and still
00:17:52.470 --> 00:17:54.609
be, like, and not feel rushed. Like, Looney Tunes
00:17:54.609 --> 00:17:57.049
was good at that. Like, they were good at, like,
00:17:57.049 --> 00:18:00.289
pacing their shorts, mostly because they were
00:18:00.289 --> 00:18:03.170
so funny, and so it didn't feel like they were
00:18:03.170 --> 00:18:06.529
short, or it didn't feel, like, long to watch
00:18:06.529 --> 00:18:09.769
them because the humor hit like a jackhammer.
00:18:10.210 --> 00:18:15.089
But sometimes with lesser, I don't like to negatively
00:18:15.089 --> 00:18:17.529
compare other cartoon shorts to Looney Tunes
00:18:17.529 --> 00:18:18.950
because I do think Looney Tunes are the best.
00:18:19.069 --> 00:18:21.450
And it's like really cheap to say that a lot
00:18:21.450 --> 00:18:23.190
of other cartoons aren't as funny as them. But
00:18:23.190 --> 00:18:26.069
like other cartoons usually don't pull that off
00:18:26.069 --> 00:18:29.349
as well. And so in stuff like this, it's sort
00:18:29.349 --> 00:18:34.069
of really noticeable. Then the last scene is
00:18:34.069 --> 00:18:37.319
the prince and Cinderella flying away in. the
00:18:37.319 --> 00:18:40.380
rebuilt airplane with the just married sign and
00:18:40.380 --> 00:18:42.099
then it starts changing back into pots and pans
00:18:42.099 --> 00:18:44.859
again and the prince opens the window and yells
00:18:44.859 --> 00:18:47.460
not tonight fairy godmother and then it changes
00:18:47.460 --> 00:18:52.000
back and they fly away yeah it's like you know
00:18:52.000 --> 00:18:54.680
if it was that easy you think that none of this
00:18:54.680 --> 00:18:57.319
would have happened in the first place but yeah
00:18:57.319 --> 00:19:00.640
but that wasn't it was a it was a decent gag
00:19:00.640 --> 00:19:03.480
it was a decent cartoon overall it wasn't very
00:19:03.480 --> 00:19:07.309
memorable for me because it wasn't that Like,
00:19:07.950 --> 00:19:10.369
given the context and given the gags and given
00:19:10.369 --> 00:19:12.890
how the story goes, it's Cinderella. Obviously,
00:19:12.950 --> 00:19:14.910
we know how it goes. But yeah, that was my overall
00:19:14.910 --> 00:19:18.150
feeling. My review is just, it's fine. It was
00:19:18.150 --> 00:19:22.970
fine. Yeah. I enjoyed it more for just the references
00:19:22.970 --> 00:19:26.210
to the time, more than being a good adaptation
00:19:26.210 --> 00:19:30.400
of Cinderella. Yeah, same, pretty much. For Sleeping
00:19:30.400 --> 00:19:34.440
Beauty and Snow White, I only really have a couple
00:19:34.440 --> 00:19:36.980
for each. I have some... like bonus ones for
00:19:36.980 --> 00:19:39.500
snow white that we can talk about but like for
00:19:39.500 --> 00:19:42.940
sleeping beauty one of them i almost threw in
00:19:42.940 --> 00:19:45.460
kind of as like yeah i guess we'll do it because
00:19:45.460 --> 00:19:48.839
it's sort of his sleeping beauty which was popeye
00:19:48.839 --> 00:19:52.359
but that one i feel i think i was grasping at
00:19:52.359 --> 00:19:54.440
straws because i've really wanted more sleeping
00:19:54.440 --> 00:19:57.980
beauty content like sleeping beauty is in this
00:19:57.980 --> 00:20:01.980
cartoon but it really isn't about her like it's
00:20:01.980 --> 00:20:05.779
about popeye and blue toe having a jousting fight
00:20:05.779 --> 00:20:08.799
for her hand in marriage like they're to wake
00:20:08.799 --> 00:20:11.299
the sleeping beauty one of them has to win this
00:20:11.299 --> 00:20:13.599
jousting contest and then it's just a bunch of
00:20:13.599 --> 00:20:16.220
gags where they're fighting to be the one to
00:20:16.220 --> 00:20:19.319
be able to kiss her and then once they finally
00:20:19.319 --> 00:20:23.079
win or once Popeye wins then he has to fight
00:20:23.079 --> 00:20:25.700
Bluto off again and they're like having a tug
00:20:25.700 --> 00:20:28.640
of war over this sleeping beauty I did like the
00:20:28.640 --> 00:20:30.619
touch of her having extremely long hair though
00:20:30.619 --> 00:20:35.119
because like that if somebody was literally alive
00:20:35.119 --> 00:20:38.099
for that long and asleep, their hair would grow
00:20:38.099 --> 00:20:45.720
really long. Sort of logical, I guess. In a cartoony
00:20:45.720 --> 00:20:49.960
way, yeah. Even with all this, they're fighting
00:20:49.960 --> 00:20:53.059
over her tug of war. She's hanging out the window
00:20:53.059 --> 00:20:55.140
with one of them hanging off one of her braids.
00:20:55.279 --> 00:20:58.700
She never wakes up until Popeye finally wins
00:20:58.700 --> 00:21:01.000
at the end, but accidentally steps on her toe
00:21:01.000 --> 00:21:07.410
and she wakes up yelling, Oh, my corn! and then
00:21:07.410 --> 00:21:10.849
she sees Popeye and says ooh a man and then he's
00:21:10.849 --> 00:21:13.630
like trying to escape from her but then she uses
00:21:13.630 --> 00:21:15.769
the big magnet to draw him back in because he's
00:21:15.769 --> 00:21:19.430
wearing a suit of armor yeah yeah and then she
00:21:19.430 --> 00:21:21.809
kisses him with such passion that his armor melts
00:21:21.809 --> 00:21:25.990
right you know well first of all the thing you
00:21:25.990 --> 00:21:28.890
said about how this was like a very loose Sleeping
00:21:28.890 --> 00:21:32.009
Beauty adaptation. Like, I appreciate variety,
00:21:32.289 --> 00:21:35.450
so I was fine with that. Yeah. But also, this
00:21:35.450 --> 00:21:37.930
cartoon was pretty good. Like, I'm not a huge
00:21:37.930 --> 00:21:40.630
fan. I love Popeye. I love the Popeye cartoons.
00:21:40.750 --> 00:21:43.130
I love especially the ones from the 30s that
00:21:43.130 --> 00:21:47.849
were made by the Fleishers, but the 1940s one,
00:21:47.950 --> 00:21:50.730
like this one is, that was made by Famous Studios.
00:21:51.640 --> 00:21:54.400
Not as good, but this one was pretty funny, because
00:21:54.400 --> 00:21:57.779
there were some decent gags here that actually
00:21:57.779 --> 00:22:03.900
made me laugh. More so than an average, non -WB
00:22:03.900 --> 00:22:06.980
cartoon from this period. Yeah, it was entertaining.
00:22:07.259 --> 00:22:10.380
It just wasn't as much Sleeping Beauty as I was
00:22:10.380 --> 00:22:13.619
expecting it to be. Yeah, and I guess it was
00:22:13.619 --> 00:22:15.900
kind of... I get the feeling that it was kind
00:22:15.900 --> 00:22:18.660
of hard to find Sleeping Beauty cartoons. It
00:22:18.660 --> 00:22:23.509
was. Really, the only one... from a major animation
00:22:23.509 --> 00:22:27.490
studio that I could find that was a direct adaptation
00:22:27.490 --> 00:22:31.450
of the fairy tale was The Sleeping Princess from
00:22:31.450 --> 00:22:36.170
1939. This was a Walter Lance cartoon. The opening
00:22:36.170 --> 00:22:40.410
title said, A Walter Lance Nertz Rerime. Nertz
00:22:40.410 --> 00:22:43.730
spelled N -E -R -T -Z, which is one of those
00:22:43.730 --> 00:22:47.390
old -fashioned phrases. I think, as best as I
00:22:47.390 --> 00:22:50.569
could figure, it just means nuts. Like, ah, Nertz.
00:22:51.019 --> 00:22:53.599
I think they used it in I Love Lucy. I'm pretty
00:22:53.599 --> 00:22:57.660
sure I remember somebody saying NERTS. But when
00:22:57.660 --> 00:22:59.940
that title came up, I was like, oh, so he had
00:22:59.940 --> 00:23:02.000
a whole series of these. So I looked it up. There
00:23:02.000 --> 00:23:07.160
was only two. They also did a Jack and the Beanstalk,
00:23:07.259 --> 00:23:09.420
which I'll probably come back to at some point
00:23:09.420 --> 00:23:11.839
in the future to talk about. But I was kind of
00:23:11.839 --> 00:23:14.099
disappointed because I liked this one and I wanted
00:23:14.099 --> 00:23:17.680
more. You know, yeah, this was pretty good. This
00:23:17.680 --> 00:23:19.740
is pretty good. Like Walter Lance is like hit
00:23:19.740 --> 00:23:22.200
or miss with me. Like he does some pretty good
00:23:22.200 --> 00:23:24.400
ones, some pretty unmemorable ones. But like
00:23:24.400 --> 00:23:27.559
the main thing that I got from this, it reminded
00:23:27.559 --> 00:23:32.559
me a little bit of Tex Avery because it was kind
00:23:32.559 --> 00:23:34.920
of, I could feel Tex Avery's influence because
00:23:34.920 --> 00:23:37.180
this was came out like right around the time
00:23:37.180 --> 00:23:40.420
when he was like making it. big at Warner Brothers
00:23:40.420 --> 00:23:43.400
doing like egghead cartoons and stuff like that
00:23:43.400 --> 00:23:46.799
and really doing memorable stuff with the fourth
00:23:46.799 --> 00:23:49.900
wall breaking humor and like I could sort of
00:23:49.900 --> 00:23:53.579
sense that Walter Lance was like a fan of that
00:23:53.579 --> 00:23:55.460
and so he was trying to sort of implement it
00:23:55.460 --> 00:23:59.119
here and yeah that was what I was mainly thinking
00:23:59.119 --> 00:24:02.960
when I watched this yeah this one is probably
00:24:02.960 --> 00:24:05.680
my favorite of the Sleeping Beauty things that
00:24:05.680 --> 00:24:09.299
I found to talk about this cracked me up multiple
00:24:09.299 --> 00:24:12.319
times it was a nice twist on the story i liked
00:24:12.319 --> 00:24:15.000
that it was actually one of the good fairies
00:24:15.000 --> 00:24:19.099
who turned bad yeah because you start out with
00:24:19.099 --> 00:24:22.299
four good fairies wisdom beauty wealth and destiny
00:24:22.299 --> 00:24:25.980
and the narration says they were all very beautiful
00:24:25.980 --> 00:24:33.559
20 years ago and then you have them they like
00:24:33.559 --> 00:24:35.500
have a band and they live in the clouds above
00:24:35.500 --> 00:24:38.839
the kingdom and Their magic powers are all mostly
00:24:38.839 --> 00:24:41.799
wish -based, so they wish for something to happen,
00:24:41.960 --> 00:24:45.180
and then it happens. And then they're watching
00:24:45.180 --> 00:24:47.259
below, and they see that they're announcing a
00:24:47.259 --> 00:24:49.779
new princess, and then they receive invitations
00:24:49.779 --> 00:24:53.039
to a celebration for the new princess, which
00:24:53.039 --> 00:24:55.059
are slid through a mail slot in the door, except
00:24:55.059 --> 00:24:58.220
Destiny's invitation ends up sliding under the
00:24:58.220 --> 00:25:02.359
rug before they find them. So they think she
00:25:02.359 --> 00:25:05.599
didn't get an invitation. And, like, they say
00:25:05.599 --> 00:25:07.680
these are good fairies, but None of them are
00:25:07.680 --> 00:25:09.059
that great, because they all kind of make fun
00:25:09.059 --> 00:25:12.119
of her for not getting an invitation. So they
00:25:12.119 --> 00:25:14.779
leave, and she decides to crash the party. And
00:25:14.779 --> 00:25:16.660
I guess because they'd already established that
00:25:16.660 --> 00:25:18.940
technically these are good fairies, this one,
00:25:19.039 --> 00:25:21.859
even though she's on a revenge mission here,
00:25:21.900 --> 00:25:25.460
she's not going to kill a baby. So this version
00:25:25.460 --> 00:25:27.519
just has her wish that the baby falls asleep
00:25:27.519 --> 00:25:30.599
for 100 years once she gets to her 15th birthday.
00:25:31.849 --> 00:25:34.890
So then we go forward 15 years and Destiny has
00:25:34.890 --> 00:25:37.369
disguised herself as an old woman trying to trick
00:25:37.369 --> 00:25:39.450
her into pricking her finger on a spinning wheel
00:25:39.450 --> 00:25:41.329
because that's what the book says she needs to
00:25:41.329 --> 00:25:44.470
do. And she like pulls out of the book to like
00:25:44.470 --> 00:25:46.869
try and convince her to use the spinning wheel.
00:25:47.210 --> 00:25:50.109
And she's like getting upset and the princess
00:25:50.109 --> 00:25:51.549
is like, oh, well, if you're going to get upset
00:25:51.549 --> 00:25:54.450
about it. And then I love the way they animated
00:25:54.450 --> 00:25:57.829
her pricking her finger and then spinning around
00:25:57.829 --> 00:26:01.180
and falling into bed. And then getting up, looking
00:26:01.180 --> 00:26:03.140
at the camera, and says, come back in 100 years,
00:26:03.200 --> 00:26:06.259
folks, and see me wake up. Yeah, no, that was
00:26:06.259 --> 00:26:10.390
funny. I like that. I like that. That was probably
00:26:10.390 --> 00:26:14.309
my favorite part. Yeah, that was good. And then
00:26:14.309 --> 00:26:18.789
we go forward nearly 100 years later, and all
00:26:18.789 --> 00:26:20.630
the fairies are cleaning their house, apparently
00:26:20.630 --> 00:26:22.930
for the first time in nearly a century, and they
00:26:22.930 --> 00:26:26.710
find the letter. They find the lost letter, yeah.
00:26:27.769 --> 00:26:31.990
And then once they reveal what she's done, Destiny
00:26:31.990 --> 00:26:35.109
just laughs to herself and says, Ooh, I've been
00:26:35.109 --> 00:26:42.599
a bad girl! Like, she's like, they thought she
00:26:42.599 --> 00:26:46.119
lost her letter, and she got so angry about it
00:26:46.119 --> 00:26:50.420
that she cursed a baby. And, like, nearly a century
00:26:50.420 --> 00:26:53.200
later, she finds out, oh, I did get a letter,
00:26:53.259 --> 00:26:58.180
and now she's like, oops. That was kind of hilarious.
00:27:00.779 --> 00:27:05.339
So, in order to rectify her mistake, she wishes
00:27:05.339 --> 00:27:07.779
that the nearest prince will come to the princess's
00:27:07.779 --> 00:27:10.480
rescue. Unfortunately, the nearest prince is
00:27:10.480 --> 00:27:16.319
an idiot. And she can't convince him to kiss
00:27:16.319 --> 00:27:18.599
the princess because he's too bashful and he's
00:27:18.599 --> 00:27:21.519
never kissed the girl before. So she transforms
00:27:21.519 --> 00:27:25.279
him into a hot, stereotypical 1930s -looking
00:27:25.279 --> 00:27:30.400
guy. Right, right. He finally kisses her and
00:27:30.400 --> 00:27:33.400
she wakes up and they start making out. Yeah.
00:27:36.960 --> 00:27:42.079
The end. The end, yeah. This one is pretty...
00:27:42.079 --> 00:27:46.420
This was wild. This was a wild one. It was. But
00:27:46.420 --> 00:27:49.099
it was entertaining. This is the kind of thing
00:27:49.099 --> 00:27:51.400
I was looking for. I wanted more stuff like this.
00:27:52.299 --> 00:27:54.519
Yeah, and I've never seen this cartoon before
00:27:54.519 --> 00:27:58.359
until now, so I was very glad to see this for
00:27:58.359 --> 00:28:00.480
the first time. Yeah, I don't think I'd seen
00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:02.839
this one either. I found other things that I'd
00:28:02.839 --> 00:28:06.180
seen before. There was one that I assumed was
00:28:06.180 --> 00:28:08.099
going to have more connections, but it really
00:28:08.099 --> 00:28:10.519
didn't. I'm trying to think of what it was called.
00:28:10.559 --> 00:28:13.000
It was going through a bunch of books, and it
00:28:13.000 --> 00:28:17.150
was a bunch of book -based... puns and gags.
00:28:17.250 --> 00:28:19.650
I remember watching it as a kid, and Sleeping
00:28:19.650 --> 00:28:22.089
Beauty was in it very briefly, but not enough
00:28:22.089 --> 00:28:24.789
that I felt like I could justify including it.
00:28:25.009 --> 00:28:27.750
Oh, is that Warner Brothers cartoon with Daffy
00:28:27.750 --> 00:28:32.109
Duck in it? No, I don't think so. The main thing
00:28:32.109 --> 00:28:34.670
about the story was the boy who cried wolf kept
00:28:34.670 --> 00:28:37.730
coming up and kept interrupting them, and then
00:28:37.730 --> 00:28:40.660
at the end I think he gets eaten. Okay, okay.
00:28:40.900 --> 00:28:43.099
Because there was a WV cartoon with Daffy Duck
00:28:43.099 --> 00:28:46.539
with a bunch of book puns, but this wasn't WV,
00:28:46.599 --> 00:28:49.880
it sounds like. I want to say it was another
00:28:49.880 --> 00:28:52.259
Walter Lance cartoon, but I'm not 100 % sure.
00:28:52.700 --> 00:28:57.339
Walter Lance, I'm very low on knowledge about
00:28:57.339 --> 00:28:59.900
his stuff, but yeah. I'll probably find that
00:28:59.900 --> 00:29:02.980
one for some other generic fairy tale series
00:29:02.980 --> 00:29:06.740
later, because it encompassed so many that I
00:29:06.740 --> 00:29:10.430
felt like it would be better served. in an episode
00:29:10.430 --> 00:29:13.170
just about fairy tales, like random fairy tales,
00:29:13.369 --> 00:29:15.569
I didn't feel like I could include it in this
00:29:15.569 --> 00:29:18.349
one. Yeah, I see, yeah. But yeah, that one was
00:29:18.349 --> 00:29:22.509
my favorite of these. Moving on to the ones that
00:29:22.509 --> 00:29:24.789
are strictly Snow White, I have a couple that
00:29:24.789 --> 00:29:28.269
I kind of felt like including just because they're
00:29:28.269 --> 00:29:31.349
more related to the Disney Snow White, but only
00:29:31.349 --> 00:29:34.089
because they include the Seven Dwarves, like
00:29:34.089 --> 00:29:36.529
specifically Disney's Seven Dwarves, and they
00:29:36.529 --> 00:29:39.609
weren't really included in a lot. from disney
00:29:39.609 --> 00:29:41.650
afterwards because he didn't really do sequels
00:29:41.650 --> 00:29:44.950
like he kind of had planned a short sequel and
00:29:44.950 --> 00:29:47.690
then it never got into full production so i just
00:29:47.690 --> 00:29:49.690
thought it was interesting that he used them
00:29:49.690 --> 00:29:53.630
a couple times later for different very random
00:29:53.630 --> 00:29:56.190
things the first one was called the standard
00:29:56.190 --> 00:30:01.009
parade from 1939 and i don't really i don't know
00:30:01.009 --> 00:30:03.630
what the point of this was exactly because this
00:30:03.630 --> 00:30:05.769
was like a promotional short from the standard
00:30:05.769 --> 00:30:09.170
oil company and most of it was a biography of
00:30:09.170 --> 00:30:10.670
walt disney like talking about his beginnings
00:30:10.670 --> 00:30:15.250
in hollywood to his at the time most recent success
00:30:15.250 --> 00:30:17.569
with snow white and then talking about him being
00:30:17.569 --> 00:30:19.529
in production on a brand new animation studio
00:30:19.529 --> 00:30:22.450
and then the short asks the question like what
00:30:22.450 --> 00:30:24.910
does this all have to do with standard oil and
00:30:24.910 --> 00:30:27.950
says it has an answer but i don't know what the
00:30:27.950 --> 00:30:30.609
answer was supposed to be i don't get what they
00:30:30.609 --> 00:30:32.849
were trying to do because then it transitions
00:30:32.849 --> 00:30:36.710
to a very short animated short produced by walt
00:30:36.710 --> 00:30:39.230
disney with all his characters marching in a
00:30:39.230 --> 00:30:41.230
parade holding the letter spelling out standard
00:30:41.230 --> 00:30:43.410
and then talking about like they're putting up
00:30:43.410 --> 00:30:46.309
billboards like talking about where they're advertising
00:30:46.309 --> 00:30:49.450
it didn't make sense to me i was very confused
00:30:50.329 --> 00:30:55.750
Yeah, you hit it on the head that this was basically
00:30:55.750 --> 00:31:01.569
a commercial for Standard Oil. And this was something
00:31:01.569 --> 00:31:03.690
that Disney did every once in a while. Disney
00:31:03.690 --> 00:31:06.750
made a Mickey Mouse cartoon called Mickey's Surprise
00:31:06.750 --> 00:31:10.650
Party, which was basically a Nabisco ad. And
00:31:10.650 --> 00:31:13.529
it was like, came out, I think it came out the
00:31:13.529 --> 00:31:17.400
same year as this. He worked with people sometimes.
00:31:17.619 --> 00:31:20.359
And then that obviously went into overdrive in
00:31:20.359 --> 00:31:22.799
the 1940s when he made a bunch of World War II
00:31:22.799 --> 00:31:25.990
propaganda. Which we'll talk about in a second.
00:31:26.430 --> 00:31:29.710
Yeah, yeah, yeah. We will. But yeah, this was
00:31:29.710 --> 00:31:33.130
like... And I know nothing about the oil business
00:31:33.130 --> 00:31:35.250
or what Standard Oil even is, so I didn't know
00:31:35.250 --> 00:31:37.769
exactly what they were advertising. I just got
00:31:37.769 --> 00:31:40.809
the sense that the connection between going into
00:31:40.809 --> 00:31:43.650
Walt Disney's history and then segwaying into
00:31:43.650 --> 00:31:47.609
Standard Oil was just so they can give context
00:31:47.609 --> 00:31:50.769
as to why... all these disney characters are
00:31:50.769 --> 00:31:52.990
giving you all this information about the product
00:31:52.990 --> 00:31:58.470
so it's just i think the extent of that but you
00:31:58.470 --> 00:32:00.869
know like i said i'm not like i don't know anything
00:32:00.869 --> 00:32:04.009
about this product yeah i don't know all i know
00:32:04.009 --> 00:32:06.170
is that i was very confused i thought they were
00:32:06.170 --> 00:32:09.410
going to give me an answer and they didn't yeah
00:32:09.410 --> 00:32:13.170
they they they teed that up really not really
00:32:13.170 --> 00:32:15.450
spectacularly when they said what does this have
00:32:15.450 --> 00:32:18.549
to do with anything and And it was still kind
00:32:18.549 --> 00:32:22.430
of confusing. Yeah, definitely. But then the
00:32:22.430 --> 00:32:24.069
other thing that the Seven Dwarves were used
00:32:24.069 --> 00:32:26.789
in was a short called Seven Wise Dwarves from
00:32:26.789 --> 00:32:30.190
1931, which is one I had seen before. This is
00:32:30.190 --> 00:32:32.789
a very short thing. It starts out with hi -ho
00:32:32.789 --> 00:32:35.329
from the movie, but then instead of going back
00:32:35.329 --> 00:32:38.269
home, the dwarves go into town and see a sign
00:32:38.269 --> 00:32:41.390
asking people to buy war certificates. And then
00:32:41.390 --> 00:32:43.109
they go into the post office and march out with
00:32:43.109 --> 00:32:45.849
piles of certificates. And the final message
00:32:45.849 --> 00:32:48.589
of the film is to the viewer asking them to invest
00:32:48.589 --> 00:32:51.910
in victory. Yeah, this was an interesting one
00:32:51.910 --> 00:32:55.650
because they show the same animation from the
00:32:55.650 --> 00:32:57.890
movie. It's like the same hi -ho sequence, but
00:32:57.890 --> 00:33:03.529
they gradually newer animation, new backgrounds.
00:33:03.589 --> 00:33:06.250
Like you say, they aren't in a medieval setting.
00:33:06.329 --> 00:33:11.910
They're in a modern town. And they recycle a
00:33:11.910 --> 00:33:13.930
lot of animation, but they also added some new
00:33:13.930 --> 00:33:17.180
animation. which of course they're going to do,
00:33:17.220 --> 00:33:21.619
like save money somehow. Of course. Yes. And
00:33:21.619 --> 00:33:24.339
yeah, like this again, this was just like, basically
00:33:24.339 --> 00:33:26.740
this was just like World War II propaganda, which
00:33:26.740 --> 00:33:30.000
is something that Disney did a lot with, especially
00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:33.559
with Donald Duck and Pluto. There was a lot of
00:33:33.559 --> 00:33:36.619
like stuff like this. And so, and like, it's
00:33:36.619 --> 00:33:38.359
interesting that they include, they did something
00:33:38.359 --> 00:33:40.640
with the dwarves because they, the dwarves did
00:33:40.640 --> 00:33:44.849
not appear in a lot of stuff. It was like. They
00:33:44.849 --> 00:33:46.990
had plans to make him appear in a lot of stuff,
00:33:47.069 --> 00:33:49.349
like Dopey was originally going to appear in
00:33:49.349 --> 00:33:51.509
Fantasia before they decided to replace him with
00:33:51.509 --> 00:33:55.349
Mickey. Oh, yeah. I forgot about that. And that
00:33:55.349 --> 00:33:57.910
was basically because Snow White and the Seven
00:33:57.910 --> 00:34:00.569
Dwarfs are so massively popular that they kind
00:34:00.569 --> 00:34:04.549
of were tempted to exploit their popularity a
00:34:04.549 --> 00:34:08.969
little bit, but they did a good job. refraining
00:34:08.969 --> 00:34:12.929
from that, which I think is good. But this was
00:34:12.929 --> 00:34:16.150
a rare case of them using the dwarves. Using
00:34:16.150 --> 00:34:20.590
a bunch of the dwarves from a fairy tale to promote
00:34:20.590 --> 00:34:23.369
World War II propaganda, which is... I'm not
00:34:23.369 --> 00:34:25.730
a huge fan of that, especially since this isn't
00:34:25.730 --> 00:34:27.230
the kind of thing I feel like Disney would have
00:34:27.230 --> 00:34:29.969
done unless they had to, because all the animation
00:34:29.969 --> 00:34:32.380
studios were kind of like... kind of drafted,
00:34:33.099 --> 00:34:40.480
if you will, to participate. I think Walt Disney
00:34:40.480 --> 00:34:42.699
even said that he didn't really enjoy making
00:34:42.699 --> 00:34:45.219
these things, but if they're going to do it,
00:34:45.320 --> 00:34:47.920
this is a decent way to do it. If you're going
00:34:47.920 --> 00:34:51.039
to include beloved characters from your films,
00:34:51.239 --> 00:34:54.260
they did a decent job with if you're going to
00:34:54.260 --> 00:34:57.139
do World War II propaganda. Yeah, he kind of
00:34:57.139 --> 00:35:00.579
had to to survive. Like the studio wouldn't have
00:35:00.579 --> 00:35:02.760
survived if he hadn't have taken the money that
00:35:02.760 --> 00:35:05.559
he earned from making all these shorts and things.
00:35:05.719 --> 00:35:08.239
Yeah, that's right. Because, yeah, because like
00:35:08.239 --> 00:35:10.340
most Disney fans already know this, but like
00:35:10.340 --> 00:35:12.139
just for the context, and you already know this,
00:35:12.219 --> 00:35:14.300
but like they were having struggles in the early
00:35:14.300 --> 00:35:16.500
40s because like World War II cut off the European
00:35:16.500 --> 00:35:19.239
market. And so like Pinocchio bombed and Bambi
00:35:19.239 --> 00:35:22.199
bombed. So it made sense that he was going to
00:35:22.199 --> 00:35:24.849
have to resort to stuff like this. Yeah. Yeah,
00:35:24.889 --> 00:35:27.909
that really is definitely not an adaptation of
00:35:27.909 --> 00:35:29.570
Snow White. I just thought it was an interesting
00:35:29.570 --> 00:35:32.789
connection to Snow White. Yeah, no, I don't think
00:35:32.789 --> 00:35:34.510
I would ever have had another chance to talk
00:35:34.510 --> 00:35:38.030
about these unless you brought these up just
00:35:38.030 --> 00:35:41.190
now. So I appreciate you bringing those to light,
00:35:41.329 --> 00:35:45.309
because those are kind of interesting time capsules.
00:35:45.510 --> 00:35:48.829
Yeah, there wouldn't really have been another
00:35:48.829 --> 00:35:51.380
place for me to... put them into a conversation
00:35:51.380 --> 00:35:54.860
because I have done another episode specifically
00:35:54.860 --> 00:35:57.719
about Disney's Snow White and this didn't come
00:35:57.719 --> 00:36:00.139
up in the conversation at all. I wasn't even
00:36:00.139 --> 00:36:02.300
aware of the standard parade at the time that
00:36:02.300 --> 00:36:05.039
we recorded that one. So I thought it would be
00:36:05.039 --> 00:36:07.360
interesting just kind of throw these in here
00:36:07.360 --> 00:36:09.000
and talk about them because they are a little
00:36:09.000 --> 00:36:11.780
bit of an interesting look into the history of
00:36:11.780 --> 00:36:14.599
Disney. Plus I didn't really have much other
00:36:14.599 --> 00:36:18.059
Disney stuff to talk about because most of Disney's
00:36:18.380 --> 00:36:21.940
adaptations of these stories were the full -length
00:36:21.940 --> 00:36:25.099
features so there wasn't as much disney stuff
00:36:25.099 --> 00:36:28.059
to talk about for shorts yeah it's interesting
00:36:28.059 --> 00:36:30.219
when you think about it how like you would think
00:36:30.219 --> 00:36:32.719
that there would be a lot of like fairy tale
00:36:32.719 --> 00:36:35.500
short films from disney but there actually weren't
00:36:35.500 --> 00:36:37.800
that many and this is like there were in the
00:36:37.800 --> 00:36:40.039
30s before snow white came out but like after
00:36:40.039 --> 00:36:44.260
that not a surprisingly short amount yeah the
00:36:44.260 --> 00:36:47.650
ones the the fairy tales that disney did that
00:36:47.650 --> 00:36:50.449
were in the shorts, most of them were ones that
00:36:50.449 --> 00:36:53.329
aren't usually turned into features, like the
00:36:53.329 --> 00:36:55.969
grasshopper and the ants, even though you could
00:36:55.969 --> 00:36:59.030
argue that A Bug's Life is that. But the shorts
00:36:59.030 --> 00:37:02.190
that they did were mostly ones that don't have
00:37:02.190 --> 00:37:04.570
enough meat on the bones to turn into a full
00:37:04.570 --> 00:37:07.710
story. Right. And I sort of got the sense that
00:37:07.710 --> 00:37:10.289
Walt Disney was saving the good stuff for the
00:37:10.289 --> 00:37:12.190
feature films. That's what it felt like. Yeah,
00:37:12.190 --> 00:37:15.840
definitely. Well, the last shorts to talk about
00:37:15.840 --> 00:37:20.139
are Snow White's short features. These are the
00:37:20.139 --> 00:37:22.920
two that like from the beginning, like as long
00:37:22.920 --> 00:37:26.300
as I've had it in mind to do podcasts on these
00:37:26.300 --> 00:37:29.400
fairy tales, I knew that these two shorts were
00:37:29.400 --> 00:37:31.679
going to be ones for Snow White. I just expected
00:37:31.679 --> 00:37:34.019
there to be more Snow White stuff. I thought
00:37:34.019 --> 00:37:35.880
I was going to add to this and have more than
00:37:35.880 --> 00:37:38.360
these two, but I couldn't find anything else
00:37:38.360 --> 00:37:41.320
that was really that notable other than the ones
00:37:41.320 --> 00:37:43.079
we've already talked about. But the first one
00:37:43.079 --> 00:37:46.539
is Betty Boop's take on Snow White. And this
00:37:46.539 --> 00:37:49.300
one is bizarre. Like I had seen this before,
00:37:49.360 --> 00:37:52.880
but I had forgotten how bizarre it was. I was
00:37:52.880 --> 00:37:54.820
watching it again to make my notes. I kind of
00:37:54.820 --> 00:37:57.219
gave up on making my notes because like, this
00:37:57.219 --> 00:38:01.000
is like a fever dream. This is surreal animation
00:38:01.000 --> 00:38:04.820
for the sake of surreal animation. The Snow White
00:38:04.820 --> 00:38:08.639
story is only the thinnest of frames on which
00:38:08.639 --> 00:38:13.199
to hang. the ideas that they had like they just
00:38:13.199 --> 00:38:15.980
had a bunch of strange ideas for what can we
00:38:15.980 --> 00:38:19.559
do in animation and they started with snow white
00:38:19.559 --> 00:38:21.500
and then just went off in their own direction
00:38:21.500 --> 00:38:25.579
yeah yeah that's a good way to describe it especially
00:38:25.579 --> 00:38:29.440
when you said fever dream it really is it's like
00:38:29.440 --> 00:38:32.659
the i mean betty boop can get even weirder than
00:38:32.659 --> 00:38:35.679
this so this is Betty Boop is no stranger to
00:38:35.679 --> 00:38:39.199
being a fever dream. I've seen some Betty Boop
00:38:39.199 --> 00:38:43.360
cartoons that kind of exceed this. Yeah, definitely.
00:38:43.860 --> 00:38:45.940
Like, there's one where she goes to hell, which
00:38:45.940 --> 00:38:48.099
I almost thought I was mixing, like, with the
00:38:48.099 --> 00:38:50.699
scene where they're digging the hole and then
00:38:50.699 --> 00:38:52.480
falling in the hole. I was like, oh, wait, is
00:38:52.480 --> 00:38:54.239
this the one where she goes to hell? But it's
00:38:54.239 --> 00:38:59.239
not. Although you could argue that it almost
00:38:59.239 --> 00:39:02.599
is a hell -like place, because everything that
00:39:02.599 --> 00:39:05.280
happens... Not that anything above ground was
00:39:05.280 --> 00:39:08.039
not bizarre because it was, but it gets so much
00:39:08.039 --> 00:39:11.199
more bizarre when they go underground. Oh, yeah.
00:39:11.719 --> 00:39:13.900
That's the highlight. When they go underground,
00:39:14.059 --> 00:39:16.619
that's the highlight of the cartoon. And if you
00:39:16.619 --> 00:39:18.519
watched it, you know exactly what I'm talking
00:39:18.519 --> 00:39:22.139
about. I feel like I don't remember when I first
00:39:22.139 --> 00:39:24.739
saw this short. I feel like I saw it when I was
00:39:24.739 --> 00:39:28.230
younger and it disturbed me. Especially the part
00:39:28.230 --> 00:39:30.309
at the end when the queen turns into a dragon
00:39:30.309 --> 00:39:33.329
and they turn her inside out. Oh, yeah. Oh, my
00:39:33.329 --> 00:39:37.789
God. It's like, is this a kid's short? I don't
00:39:37.789 --> 00:39:39.469
know. I don't think this was meant for kids.
00:39:40.409 --> 00:39:43.469
It actually wasn't. I can tell you. It was not.
00:39:43.710 --> 00:39:48.409
This was for adults. Yeah. Yeah. True. But I
00:39:48.409 --> 00:39:51.349
always feel like, like, yes, most of the animation
00:39:51.349 --> 00:39:53.369
back then was technically made for adults, but
00:39:53.369 --> 00:39:56.909
most kids like watching it too. This one is like
00:39:56.909 --> 00:39:58.889
towing the line is like, this could disturb a
00:39:58.889 --> 00:40:00.630
child. Like, I feel like if I'd saw this when
00:40:00.630 --> 00:40:02.949
I was too young, that would have really disturbed
00:40:02.949 --> 00:40:07.099
me. Yeah. I don't think I saw this one when I
00:40:07.099 --> 00:40:10.739
was very young. It took me years and years until
00:40:10.739 --> 00:40:13.099
I actually discovered this. And I've seen Betty
00:40:13.099 --> 00:40:18.320
Boop before, but she wasn't regular on the TV
00:40:18.320 --> 00:40:20.780
networks I watched. She was like, I don't know
00:40:20.780 --> 00:40:23.219
who owned the rights to her back then, but I
00:40:23.219 --> 00:40:27.280
barely saw Betty Boop. It was later when I was
00:40:27.280 --> 00:40:30.699
watching her stuff on DVD and YouTube and I was
00:40:30.699 --> 00:40:33.829
getting into it. And I was like, this one I sort
00:40:33.829 --> 00:40:36.590
of came across like before I started getting
00:40:36.590 --> 00:40:39.050
into it I think this might have revitalized my
00:40:39.050 --> 00:40:41.309
interest in Betty Boop actually when I saw this
00:40:41.309 --> 00:40:44.969
because like I saw the clip of like the very
00:40:44.969 --> 00:40:48.170
memorable clip of Coco the Clown being rotoscoped
00:40:48.170 --> 00:40:52.250
over the dance moves of Cap Calloway and I was
00:40:52.250 --> 00:40:55.190
like I don't think I've ever seen rotoscoping
00:40:55.190 --> 00:40:57.289
in old cartoons before. I think this might've
00:40:57.289 --> 00:40:59.590
been the first time. And I was like mesmerized
00:40:59.590 --> 00:41:04.670
by this. Like I, I, I love rotoscoped in general.
00:41:04.730 --> 00:41:07.090
I know some animation fans don't like it because
00:41:07.090 --> 00:41:09.809
it's like, it feels cheap to like trace live
00:41:09.809 --> 00:41:12.869
action, but like a good visual, it's a good visual
00:41:12.869 --> 00:41:16.340
to me and it looks great. When rotoscoping is
00:41:16.340 --> 00:41:18.719
done well, it can look really good, and I think
00:41:18.719 --> 00:41:21.460
they used it really well in the old Betty Boop
00:41:21.460 --> 00:41:23.739
cartoons, especially for the dances, because
00:41:23.739 --> 00:41:26.440
they used Cab Calloway more than once, and every
00:41:26.440 --> 00:41:28.820
time they do a dance with Cab Calloway as the
00:41:28.820 --> 00:41:32.900
dancer, it looks so good. Yeah, yeah. I especially
00:41:32.900 --> 00:41:35.739
loved what they did here when, like, he wasn't
00:41:35.739 --> 00:41:38.079
just, it wasn't just Coco the Clown being traced
00:41:38.079 --> 00:41:40.280
over, and he transforms into, like, this weird
00:41:40.280 --> 00:41:42.719
spirit with long legs, and, like, they, like,
00:41:42.860 --> 00:41:46.530
and it was... It looked even better, actually,
00:41:46.590 --> 00:41:49.289
because he's like, this is not a human shape
00:41:49.289 --> 00:41:51.969
at all, and yet they still traced over a human
00:41:51.969 --> 00:41:55.070
body, which made it look even more bizarre. Yeah.
00:41:55.610 --> 00:41:58.090
That's partly why I think I would have been disturbed
00:41:58.090 --> 00:42:01.550
as a kid, because it had an uncanny valley feel.
00:42:02.090 --> 00:42:04.110
Yeah. It feels like something that would have
00:42:04.110 --> 00:42:06.369
creeped me out as a kid, but as an adult, I'm
00:42:06.369 --> 00:42:09.769
like, this looks really cool. Yeah. And you noticed
00:42:09.769 --> 00:42:11.429
while you were watching, you noticed those background
00:42:11.429 --> 00:42:16.070
images scrolling. I did not remember that. But
00:42:16.070 --> 00:42:18.550
this time, when I watched it for this podcast,
00:42:18.829 --> 00:42:20.829
I saw the background. I was like, wait, there's
00:42:20.829 --> 00:42:23.869
stuff happening in the background. The details
00:42:23.869 --> 00:42:27.230
they put into this thing. Yes. That was a really
00:42:27.230 --> 00:42:29.670
nice touch with the background images. If you
00:42:29.670 --> 00:42:31.929
could just watch the whole thing and pay attention
00:42:31.929 --> 00:42:33.429
to the background and be just as entertained
00:42:33.429 --> 00:42:37.269
almost. Yeah. Like one of the interesting things
00:42:37.269 --> 00:42:38.630
I learned, I don't know if you knew this, but
00:42:38.630 --> 00:42:39.730
like one of the interesting things I learned
00:42:39.730 --> 00:42:41.670
about this cartoon was that like it was I think
00:42:41.670 --> 00:42:45.429
it was animated mostly by one guy. And it was
00:42:45.429 --> 00:42:48.730
like someone named Roland Crandall, who was like
00:42:48.730 --> 00:42:51.869
one of like Fleischer's earliest animators when
00:42:51.869 --> 00:42:54.090
they started out. And he was like a really good
00:42:54.090 --> 00:42:57.010
animator. And the Fleischer's like rewarded him
00:42:57.010 --> 00:42:59.349
by giving him this cartoon. And like I say, I
00:42:59.349 --> 00:43:01.750
know Dave Fleischer was like, I know I'm credited
00:43:01.750 --> 00:43:04.170
as the director on this, but you can just do
00:43:04.170 --> 00:43:06.420
whatever you want. You could sort of tell that
00:43:06.420 --> 00:43:08.539
Roland Crandall did do whatever he wanted with
00:43:08.539 --> 00:43:11.300
this because this was very surreal and creative.
00:43:11.619 --> 00:43:14.659
And I think he was given free reign with this
00:43:14.659 --> 00:43:17.139
thing. And so that was an interesting thing I
00:43:17.139 --> 00:43:19.920
learned. This was mostly all animated by just
00:43:19.920 --> 00:43:22.300
one person. I feel like I've heard that before
00:43:22.300 --> 00:43:24.880
about some of the other early cartoons, especially
00:43:24.880 --> 00:43:27.550
Betty Boop. I wonder... I don't remember it about
00:43:27.550 --> 00:43:30.670
this specific one, but I wonder if he did that
00:43:30.670 --> 00:43:34.429
for other cartoons also. He may have. I only
00:43:34.429 --> 00:43:38.389
know about this one because this was one of the
00:43:38.389 --> 00:43:40.349
most popular cartoons of all time. I think this
00:43:40.349 --> 00:43:44.289
was on the list of 50 greatest cartoons. I know
00:43:44.289 --> 00:43:47.429
this was a popular one, but the other cartoons
00:43:47.429 --> 00:43:49.170
that might have been less popular, he may have
00:43:49.170 --> 00:43:53.829
done that, but it's just not as well known. It
00:43:53.829 --> 00:43:55.210
could have been this one that I've heard that
00:43:55.210 --> 00:43:57.210
about because I remember hearing about somebody
00:43:57.210 --> 00:44:01.650
in the old animation studio who was able to animate
00:44:01.650 --> 00:44:04.289
almost all by himself. It might have been this
00:44:04.289 --> 00:44:07.889
one. Yeah. I know Winsor McCay did that too with
00:44:07.889 --> 00:44:11.829
Gertie the Dinosaur. Sure, yeah. That is very
00:44:11.829 --> 00:44:13.869
short though, Gertie the Dinosaur. I remember
00:44:13.869 --> 00:44:15.269
watching that for the first time. I was like,
00:44:15.309 --> 00:44:19.559
wait, that's it? yeah yeah and there isn't and
00:44:19.559 --> 00:44:21.119
by the way there isn't a lot of animation in
00:44:21.119 --> 00:44:23.440
that too it's like surprisingly it's like of
00:44:23.440 --> 00:44:25.940
course it's like one of the earliest and like
00:44:25.940 --> 00:44:29.480
animated films so of course it's not gonna be
00:44:29.480 --> 00:44:32.039
like that long or anything but like yeah so it
00:44:32.039 --> 00:44:34.639
has been done before it's been even been done
00:44:34.639 --> 00:44:37.880
in the 50s like Robert McKimpson like made like
00:44:37.880 --> 00:44:40.820
a Looney Tunes short and he animated it himself
00:44:40.820 --> 00:44:43.579
the whole thing so that's happened every once
00:44:43.579 --> 00:44:45.599
in a while you hear about that happening yeah
00:44:46.380 --> 00:44:49.280
But yeah, as far as story -wise goes, there's
00:44:49.280 --> 00:44:51.760
not that much to talk about for this cartoon.
00:44:51.920 --> 00:44:54.940
It really has very little to do with Snow White.
00:44:55.000 --> 00:44:58.039
It's just really a surreal fever dream is the
00:44:58.039 --> 00:45:00.360
best way to describe this. Yeah, yeah, you're
00:45:00.360 --> 00:45:02.280
right about that. It's very, like, it's not like
00:45:02.280 --> 00:45:05.420
a lot of Snow White stuff. It's not a big, like,
00:45:05.440 --> 00:45:07.780
elaborate Snow White adaptation. It's like, it's
00:45:07.780 --> 00:45:10.059
like you said, it's just an excuse for some surreal
00:45:10.059 --> 00:45:13.360
imagery, which is enough for me because I enjoyed
00:45:13.360 --> 00:45:17.510
it. Yeah. Well, the final short is more based
00:45:17.510 --> 00:45:20.769
on the Snow White story. And this is probably
00:45:20.769 --> 00:45:24.210
one of the most infamous cartoons, maybe, in
00:45:24.210 --> 00:45:26.929
history. Because I remember hearing about this
00:45:26.929 --> 00:45:29.769
years ago. Like, when I was a teenager, I remember
00:45:29.769 --> 00:45:33.210
reading about this cartoon, Cole Black and Deceban
00:45:33.210 --> 00:45:37.530
Dwarfs. And I never saw it until now. Like, I
00:45:37.530 --> 00:45:40.050
knew that it was maybe available somewhere if
00:45:40.050 --> 00:45:42.670
you looked for it, but I never looked for it.
00:45:43.210 --> 00:45:45.650
I think I had read that it was coming to DVD
00:45:45.650 --> 00:45:48.369
at some point, and I figured I would watch it
00:45:48.369 --> 00:45:50.769
then, and then it never did. Because I collect
00:45:50.769 --> 00:45:53.449
all of the Looney Tunes golden collection and
00:45:53.449 --> 00:45:56.550
all those things, like the DVDs from all the
00:45:56.550 --> 00:45:58.769
collections. And I thought that this was going
00:45:58.769 --> 00:46:01.670
to be on some special collection with commentary
00:46:01.670 --> 00:46:04.789
and history of it and stuff. So I was waiting
00:46:04.789 --> 00:46:06.869
for that, and then it never happened. So I had
00:46:06.869 --> 00:46:09.230
never seen that until I started making this podcast.
00:46:10.090 --> 00:46:13.750
You know, I don't know where you heard that that
00:46:13.750 --> 00:46:15.550
was going to happen, but I would have been surprised
00:46:15.550 --> 00:46:18.150
if it did, because this is kind of like Warner
00:46:18.150 --> 00:46:20.369
Brothers' Song of the South. That's what this
00:46:20.369 --> 00:46:22.630
is. This is kind of like that level. Kind of,
00:46:22.630 --> 00:46:25.050
but this is kind of worse than Song of the South.
00:46:25.489 --> 00:46:29.349
No, it is. It definitely is. I'm not, yeah. I
00:46:29.349 --> 00:46:32.329
don't, for whatever reason. I didn't expect this
00:46:32.329 --> 00:46:35.190
to be as bad as it was. Like I knew that it was
00:46:35.190 --> 00:46:37.130
going to be bad. Cause like, this is one of the
00:46:37.130 --> 00:46:39.710
ones that they call the censored 11, like 11
00:46:39.710 --> 00:46:42.090
cartoons that Warner brothers has like tried
00:46:42.090 --> 00:46:45.010
to hide forever. Yes. That's what that was. So
00:46:45.010 --> 00:46:47.889
I guess I heard it was going to be bad. I just,
00:46:47.909 --> 00:46:51.429
I maybe song of the self distorted my perception.
00:46:51.610 --> 00:46:53.309
Cause like everybody talks about how bad song
00:46:53.309 --> 00:46:56.630
of the self is and it's not that bad. It's more
00:46:56.630 --> 00:47:00.269
boring than anything to me. Yeah. So I expected
00:47:00.269 --> 00:47:03.849
this to be something that maybe people were kind
00:47:03.849 --> 00:47:06.610
of blowing out of proportion. I see, I see. You
00:47:06.610 --> 00:47:08.929
were expecting this to be similarly, like, people
00:47:08.929 --> 00:47:11.409
were overreacting about this one, too. I thought
00:47:11.409 --> 00:47:14.570
maybe that was the case, and I think I was wrong.
00:47:15.710 --> 00:47:19.210
Yeah. Yeah, no, you're right. This is definitely
00:47:19.210 --> 00:47:21.769
worse than Song of the South. But, like, this
00:47:21.769 --> 00:47:26.090
one... like this one is frustrating because like
00:47:26.090 --> 00:47:29.769
there are a lot obviously i mean let's just like
00:47:29.769 --> 00:47:31.670
first of all let's just describe it it's like
00:47:31.670 --> 00:47:34.429
basically it's like a it's kind of like a modern
00:47:34.429 --> 00:47:36.829
day world war ii era adaptation of snow white
00:47:36.829 --> 00:47:41.190
with all black characters uh the black characters
00:47:41.190 --> 00:47:43.610
are sort of like portrayed like it's not blackface
00:47:43.610 --> 00:47:45.710
because they're cartoon characters so they can't
00:47:45.710 --> 00:47:48.750
be blackface but it's the same idea behind blackface
00:47:48.750 --> 00:47:52.519
it's like darky iconography is what they kind
00:47:52.519 --> 00:47:55.800
of is what they label it as where it's like exaggerated
00:47:55.800 --> 00:47:58.920
versions and cartoony versions of how black people
00:47:58.920 --> 00:48:02.400
are like portrayed usually by white people and
00:48:02.400 --> 00:48:04.719
yeah and and the reason why i say it's frustrating
00:48:04.719 --> 00:48:07.119
is because they're they're a lot this is a cartoon
00:48:07.119 --> 00:48:09.820
that's like this was released in like 1943 and
00:48:09.820 --> 00:48:12.309
this was like around the era of looney tunes
00:48:12.309 --> 00:48:14.429
that was like one of my favorite periods because
00:48:14.429 --> 00:48:16.550
like bob clampett directed this and he's like
00:48:16.550 --> 00:48:18.469
one of the my favorite looney tunes directors
00:48:18.469 --> 00:48:22.070
because he's got great energy his cartoons have
00:48:22.070 --> 00:48:25.429
always had great animation i like the fast -paced
00:48:25.429 --> 00:48:28.369
humor and the comedic timing which is all present
00:48:28.369 --> 00:48:31.070
in this cartoon and so there are a lot of things
00:48:31.070 --> 00:48:33.909
about it i technically really enjoy but like
00:48:34.619 --> 00:48:37.320
But, you know, it's really hard to enjoy it because
00:48:37.320 --> 00:48:42.320
it's so unbelievably dated in, like, terrible
00:48:42.320 --> 00:48:45.579
ways. Yeah, I kind of felt the same way because
00:48:45.579 --> 00:48:48.280
I was watching and I was like, this has potential.
00:48:48.659 --> 00:48:54.980
Like, I like what they tried to do. They just
00:48:54.980 --> 00:48:59.239
didn't get there. It was too much of that type
00:48:59.239 --> 00:49:03.800
of stereotypical... racist humor that it kind
00:49:03.800 --> 00:49:05.880
of just put a sour taste over the whole thing
00:49:05.880 --> 00:49:09.360
i don't think they intended it to be in bad taste
00:49:09.360 --> 00:49:11.599
because i think i read like an interview where
00:49:11.599 --> 00:49:13.539
they were trying to do something good with this
00:49:13.539 --> 00:49:17.380
but like they they didn't get there yeah you
00:49:17.380 --> 00:49:20.039
know that was sort of like it's sort of similar
00:49:20.039 --> 00:49:23.500
to the way that the animators of dumbo were like
00:49:23.900 --> 00:49:26.639
justifying the portrayal of the crows which I
00:49:26.639 --> 00:49:29.760
sort of buy because it's not like the crows are
00:49:29.760 --> 00:49:32.820
sort of criticized as being stereotypical black
00:49:32.820 --> 00:49:35.539
like African American stereotypes but like they're
00:49:35.539 --> 00:49:39.039
not bad characters they're still like likable
00:49:39.039 --> 00:49:41.500
and they're like they help the main character
00:49:41.500 --> 00:49:44.380
and they're respected and everything it's just
00:49:44.380 --> 00:49:50.460
of the time you can only enjoy it if you were
00:49:50.460 --> 00:49:54.010
in that period and you were like and you didn't
00:49:54.010 --> 00:49:58.670
understand like it wasn't fully accepted the
00:49:58.670 --> 00:50:01.829
point of view of black people and how black audiences
00:50:01.829 --> 00:50:05.570
might feel if they watch this and like and how
00:50:05.570 --> 00:50:07.929
offensive it might be I mean there were black
00:50:07.929 --> 00:50:10.190
people who watched stuff like this in the 40s
00:50:10.190 --> 00:50:12.710
and were offended by it it just wasn't like mainstream
00:50:12.710 --> 00:50:18.269
acceptance to like care about that so they were
00:50:18.269 --> 00:50:20.440
there obviously they were like Down in the South
00:50:20.440 --> 00:50:23.179
got, like, protests from the NAACP. Like, people,
00:50:23.360 --> 00:50:25.340
Black people hated, like, all this stuff back
00:50:25.340 --> 00:50:27.039
then. It was just, it wasn't until the Civil
00:50:27.039 --> 00:50:28.920
Rights Movement in the 60s when they actually
00:50:28.920 --> 00:50:31.699
started, like, oh, we should, now that we're,
00:50:31.699 --> 00:50:33.780
like, actually trying to, like, portray them
00:50:33.780 --> 00:50:35.940
in respectful ways, we should, now all this stuff
00:50:35.940 --> 00:50:39.320
is taboo. That's when it started happening. Yeah,
00:50:39.440 --> 00:50:42.980
this did get protests at the time. I don't know,
00:50:43.000 --> 00:50:46.199
like, how widespread, but the NAACP, they called
00:50:46.199 --> 00:50:48.650
on Warner Brothers to like take this down like
00:50:48.650 --> 00:50:51.070
get rid of this this is offensive i don't know
00:50:51.070 --> 00:50:54.489
if they had like as much of a protest as song
00:50:54.489 --> 00:50:57.210
of the south got but there were people upset
00:50:57.210 --> 00:50:59.710
at the time yeah which is always which is important
00:50:59.710 --> 00:51:01.469
to point out because i feel like sometimes when
00:51:01.469 --> 00:51:03.329
you talk talk about these things like people
00:51:03.329 --> 00:51:06.389
assume that back then it was well accepted and
00:51:06.389 --> 00:51:08.409
then it wasn't a big deal but it was a big deal
00:51:08.409 --> 00:51:11.010
even people back then were offended by it but
00:51:11.010 --> 00:51:14.630
again i like some of the ideas of what they were
00:51:14.630 --> 00:51:19.050
going for. I like the idea of making an African
00:51:19.050 --> 00:51:21.969
-American version of Snow White. Yes, me too.
00:51:22.530 --> 00:51:24.949
And one specifically said in this time period,
00:51:25.050 --> 00:51:28.130
it feels like such a great idea. It's just they
00:51:28.130 --> 00:51:31.869
leaned too much into the racist humor to make
00:51:31.869 --> 00:51:34.769
it enjoyable. But I feel like the idea is there.
00:51:34.949 --> 00:51:37.610
This feels like it could be a good idea if the
00:51:37.610 --> 00:51:40.690
right person were to take on the story. Yeah.
00:51:40.769 --> 00:51:47.289
If someone had pitched the idea of a black version
00:51:47.289 --> 00:51:51.429
of Snow White and everything they pitched about
00:51:51.429 --> 00:51:55.409
this cartoon, they told me only without having
00:51:55.409 --> 00:51:58.889
any knowledge of the stereotypes. I thought this
00:51:58.889 --> 00:52:01.809
would have been a great idea for a cartoon. And
00:52:01.809 --> 00:52:04.610
there are a lot of funny things that happen in
00:52:04.610 --> 00:52:07.469
it. like I said, Bob Clampett, great director,
00:52:07.590 --> 00:52:10.909
good comedic timing. It's just, if it wasn't
00:52:10.909 --> 00:52:12.750
so dated, it would have been more enjoyable.
00:52:12.829 --> 00:52:14.309
That's the problem. It's like, you just, you
00:52:14.309 --> 00:52:17.929
can't really enjoy it because it's, like, ruined
00:52:17.929 --> 00:52:22.489
completely by, like, okay, this guy's lips are
00:52:22.489 --> 00:52:27.769
a little too big for me to enjoy this. This guy's
00:52:27.769 --> 00:52:30.670
acting a little too cartoony for me to enjoy
00:52:30.670 --> 00:52:33.969
this. That's just the main issue. But, like,
00:52:34.329 --> 00:52:37.289
like you said there is some potential and like
00:52:37.289 --> 00:52:40.289
and i really love the animation it's like nice
00:52:40.289 --> 00:52:43.329
energetic bouncy animation and fast -paced humor
00:52:43.329 --> 00:52:47.610
but yeah there's a reason why this one is like
00:52:47.610 --> 00:52:50.929
been buried and censored yeah there's there's
00:52:50.929 --> 00:52:53.190
so many things in here that like something would
00:52:53.190 --> 00:52:55.389
happen i'm like okay i like this and then something
00:52:55.389 --> 00:52:58.610
else would happen you're like oh no like i love
00:52:58.610 --> 00:53:01.849
the gag with her like injecting the apple and
00:53:01.849 --> 00:53:03.869
to poison the apple and like a little worm pops
00:53:03.869 --> 00:53:08.170
out like that's a great gag but then something
00:53:08.170 --> 00:53:12.619
else terrible would happen and ruin it yeah And
00:53:12.619 --> 00:53:17.619
I liked the dancing animation when Snow White
00:53:17.619 --> 00:53:20.699
met the prince. It was really beautiful looking
00:53:20.699 --> 00:53:23.980
animation there. Oh, the animation of the queen
00:53:23.980 --> 00:53:27.659
is great. When she puts on that fake Jimmy Durante
00:53:27.659 --> 00:53:31.519
nose and she's trying to sell the poison apple
00:53:31.519 --> 00:53:34.000
when she's riding that bike. That was like Robert
00:53:34.000 --> 00:53:37.940
McKimpson animated that. Robert McKimpson was
00:53:37.940 --> 00:53:41.059
a great animator. He did some really good body.
00:53:42.139 --> 00:53:45.179
waving of the arms and, like, big body movements
00:53:45.179 --> 00:53:47.360
and, like, really cartoony stuff. He was, like,
00:53:47.400 --> 00:53:49.079
Robert McKimson's one of my favorite animators,
00:53:49.079 --> 00:53:52.480
and he did that. And so, like, you can see so
00:53:52.480 --> 00:53:55.639
much talent, like, involved here. It was just,
00:53:55.699 --> 00:53:58.179
like, yeah. Just, like, it's just wasted just
00:53:58.179 --> 00:54:00.800
because, like, you can't really show this to
00:54:00.800 --> 00:54:02.980
anyone. Unless you're, like, a historian and
00:54:02.980 --> 00:54:05.199
you're interested in, like, time capsules. They
00:54:05.199 --> 00:54:07.420
can enjoy this, I'm sure. But, like, if you're
00:54:07.420 --> 00:54:09.539
gonna show this to, like, a layman or, like,
00:54:09.539 --> 00:54:13.289
a mainstream audience that's a no -no yeah it's
00:54:13.289 --> 00:54:16.389
a if you're watching it you need the context
00:54:18.570 --> 00:54:21.150
You can't enjoy it as entertainment because it
00:54:21.150 --> 00:54:25.230
just falls apart. No, no, exactly. I wish I could
00:54:25.230 --> 00:54:26.969
enjoy stuff like this as entertainment, but no,
00:54:27.050 --> 00:54:30.369
that's impossible. And I'm glad. I'm glad that
00:54:30.369 --> 00:54:34.170
I'm not able to. But when you think about the
00:54:34.170 --> 00:54:36.869
intention of the people behind the making of
00:54:36.869 --> 00:54:38.809
the cartoons, like you said, they aren't trying
00:54:38.809 --> 00:54:41.449
to be offensive. They're just trying to be entertaining
00:54:41.449 --> 00:54:46.260
in just a really tone -deaf way. So at the time,
00:54:46.340 --> 00:54:49.019
it probably would have been possible, but no,
00:54:49.280 --> 00:54:54.780
not anymore. That's the only issue. If we were
00:54:54.780 --> 00:54:57.579
going to actually try to ignore all the bad things
00:54:57.579 --> 00:55:00.019
about this cartoon and try to compare it to other
00:55:00.019 --> 00:55:04.119
Snow White adaptations, I don't know if that's
00:55:04.119 --> 00:55:07.260
possible, but would you be able to rank this
00:55:07.260 --> 00:55:12.610
in terms of how well they do? It's hard, too,
00:55:12.710 --> 00:55:16.989
because it's so short. So it's hard to compare
00:55:16.989 --> 00:55:20.190
it to other versions that are so much longer
00:55:20.190 --> 00:55:23.769
and tell so much more of the story. It's also
00:55:23.769 --> 00:55:26.469
sort of hard to appreciate the creativity of
00:55:26.469 --> 00:55:30.730
this. Because even without the dated stuff, it's
00:55:30.730 --> 00:55:33.989
like a World War II era cartoon. And so it's
00:55:33.989 --> 00:55:37.329
like the context. Just the World War II stuff
00:55:37.329 --> 00:55:39.510
alone makes it dated. So it's kind of hard to
00:55:39.510 --> 00:55:44.039
talk about in that way. I guess as a piece of
00:55:44.039 --> 00:55:47.280
entertainment, if you're not counting the dated
00:55:47.280 --> 00:55:51.659
humor, it probably ranks under Betty Boop's Snow
00:55:51.659 --> 00:55:53.639
White, because I would watch that probably before
00:55:53.639 --> 00:55:56.079
I would rewatch this, but I would watch this
00:55:56.079 --> 00:55:59.260
over some of the other ones that we talked about
00:55:59.260 --> 00:56:01.539
earlier, especially like Mellow Tunes. Mellow
00:56:01.539 --> 00:56:04.599
Tunes is just meh. Yeah, I would watch this one
00:56:04.599 --> 00:56:08.000
over the Mellow Tunes too. Just the animation
00:56:08.000 --> 00:56:11.309
alone is just more entertaining to look at. I
00:56:11.309 --> 00:56:14.650
think I liked it more than some of the Fractured
00:56:14.650 --> 00:56:17.989
Fairy Tales, too. I think if Fractured Fairy
00:56:17.989 --> 00:56:21.250
Tales, maybe Snow White Inc. is probably maybe
00:56:21.250 --> 00:56:24.469
ranks higher than this, but I do like this more
00:56:24.469 --> 00:56:28.329
than Joe White. Joe White was fine, I guess.
00:56:29.079 --> 00:56:31.239
I liked it better than Red White and Snow White
00:56:31.239 --> 00:56:33.719
meets Rapunzel. Yeah. See, this is what I'm talking
00:56:33.719 --> 00:56:35.900
about. It's hard. It's like, it's frustrating
00:56:35.900 --> 00:56:37.800
because there are a lot of things about the cold
00:56:37.800 --> 00:56:40.880
black that I like. So it's like easy to rank
00:56:40.880 --> 00:56:42.619
it above other stuff. But it's like, it's hard.
00:56:42.679 --> 00:56:45.400
It's hard for me to scream on the rooftops about
00:56:45.400 --> 00:56:48.159
the good stuff about it because people would
00:56:48.159 --> 00:56:51.619
say I was crazy to like this. Yeah. I mean, there
00:56:51.619 --> 00:56:55.000
is stuff about it to like, but as a whole, it's
00:56:55.000 --> 00:56:58.659
hard to like. It has elements that are great.
00:56:58.760 --> 00:57:01.500
It does have great animation, great music. I
00:57:01.500 --> 00:57:04.679
like what they maybe were trying to go for, but
00:57:04.679 --> 00:57:08.199
the completed package, it's hard to recommend.
00:57:08.780 --> 00:57:11.079
Yeah, no, no, no, no, no. I would never even
00:57:11.079 --> 00:57:15.420
think to do that. It can only be watched as a
00:57:15.420 --> 00:57:17.699
product of its time. It's impossible to enjoy
00:57:17.699 --> 00:57:21.360
as entertainment. That's the thing. Whereas Betty
00:57:21.360 --> 00:57:24.360
Boop's Snow White, you could watch that. as entertainment,
00:57:24.559 --> 00:57:27.039
as a product of its time. It works in both contexts.
00:57:27.440 --> 00:57:30.880
Oh, yeah. I shared the Betty Boop Snow White
00:57:30.880 --> 00:57:34.739
cartoon on my Facebook page once. I was like,
00:57:34.960 --> 00:57:37.820
hey, everybody watch this. That totally holds
00:57:37.820 --> 00:57:42.980
up. Yeah, it's such a fascinating, not even as
00:57:42.980 --> 00:57:45.239
a Snow White thing, it's just a piece of animation.
00:57:45.500 --> 00:57:50.320
It's so cool to watch. It doesn't work even much
00:57:50.320 --> 00:57:53.179
as Snow White, but just like to watch it. I love
00:57:53.179 --> 00:57:56.300
watching, I don't know, the surreal ideas. Like
00:57:56.300 --> 00:57:59.300
he had so many bizarre ideas. He was just like,
00:57:59.380 --> 00:58:01.139
I want to do this. I want to do this. I want
00:58:01.139 --> 00:58:03.639
to do this. And he made it all happen. And it
00:58:03.639 --> 00:58:06.039
just works so well. Maybe it doesn't work as
00:58:06.039 --> 00:58:08.960
a story of Snow White because like it goes off
00:58:08.960 --> 00:58:11.579
in its own direction. But like just as somebody
00:58:11.579 --> 00:58:14.500
who was experimenting with animation, it's just,
00:58:14.519 --> 00:58:16.960
it looks so cool. Yeah, that Betty Boop cartoon,
00:58:17.099 --> 00:58:19.639
by the way, it's super rewatchable, because there's
00:58:19.639 --> 00:58:22.599
a lot of stuff happening on screen. It is. Yeah,
00:58:22.820 --> 00:58:26.199
you can watch it again and again, and it's still
00:58:26.199 --> 00:58:29.360
entertaining. Yeah, it'd be fun just to do a
00:58:29.360 --> 00:58:31.800
marathon of all the ones that have the rotoscope
00:58:31.800 --> 00:58:36.659
dances, because I love watching that. The rotoscoping,
00:58:36.739 --> 00:58:39.320
when it works, it works, and they made it work
00:58:39.320 --> 00:58:43.019
for these Betty Boop shorts. Yeah, there are
00:58:43.019 --> 00:58:46.239
two other ones that I know of that Betty Boop
00:58:46.239 --> 00:58:48.260
cartoons that use rotoscoping. So I know there
00:58:48.260 --> 00:58:52.920
are at least two or more. So you might be able
00:58:52.920 --> 00:58:56.019
to do that. Yeah, there's so many old animations.
00:58:56.539 --> 00:58:59.960
As much as it does kind of suck that we can't
00:58:59.960 --> 00:59:03.210
recommend. coal black there's so much other in
00:59:03.210 --> 00:59:05.630
an old animation that you can recommend so it's
00:59:05.630 --> 00:59:08.969
not like it's a huge loss like yeah you can watch
00:59:08.969 --> 00:59:12.230
betty boop's snow white betty boop has a cinderella
00:59:12.230 --> 00:59:13.849
cartoon that we've already talked about in the
00:59:13.849 --> 00:59:16.289
other episode like there's so much old animation
00:59:16.289 --> 00:59:20.849
that if you want an old interesting wacky take
00:59:20.849 --> 00:59:23.590
on a well -known fairy tale there's there's so
00:59:23.590 --> 00:59:27.340
much out there And also, Bob Clampett made a
00:59:27.340 --> 00:59:30.119
ton of other great cartoons that do hold up.
00:59:30.239 --> 00:59:33.579
And a lot of them are funnier than Cold Black
00:59:33.579 --> 00:59:36.099
and the Seven Dwarfs. Yes, that's true. That
00:59:36.099 --> 00:59:38.659
is very true. Yes, exactly. It's Looney Tunes
00:59:38.659 --> 00:59:43.039
stuff. genius. Yeah, and so it's not a huge loss,
00:59:43.179 --> 00:59:45.280
Cole Black, because I do think it's like there
00:59:45.280 --> 00:59:47.920
are a lot more funnier stuff. There's a lot less
00:59:47.920 --> 00:59:51.039
racist stuff, so it's not a big deal. And a lot
00:59:51.039 --> 00:59:54.360
of his cartoons are among my favorites of all
00:59:54.360 --> 00:59:58.440
time, so it's like no huge loss. It's fine. I
00:59:58.440 --> 01:00:00.900
don't even think... You say that it's impossible
01:00:00.900 --> 01:00:04.059
to really recommend this, and I agree, but you
01:00:04.059 --> 01:00:08.219
don't really need to watch it. It's like... I
01:00:08.219 --> 01:00:10.480
wanted to watch it just because I'm, like, a
01:00:10.480 --> 01:00:13.659
completionist. And, like, I like watching things
01:00:13.659 --> 01:00:16.440
to, like, go into the history of stuff. But,
01:00:16.500 --> 01:00:19.659
like, for the average person looking for animated
01:00:19.659 --> 01:00:22.380
shorts, there are better ones. That's, like,
01:00:22.480 --> 01:00:24.639
you don't need to watch this one. It's fine.
01:00:25.300 --> 01:00:28.039
There's so much more better fairy tales. There's
01:00:28.039 --> 01:00:31.139
more better Bob Clampett stuff. Better Looney
01:00:31.139 --> 01:00:34.340
Tunes in general. Yeah. There's so much out there.
01:00:34.730 --> 01:00:37.369
The Cold Black is probably the best of the Since
01:00:37.369 --> 01:00:41.789
It 11 cartoons, but you say that you're a completionist
01:00:41.789 --> 01:00:44.389
with fairy tale adaptations. I'm a completionist
01:00:44.389 --> 01:00:47.030
with Looney Tunes cartoons, so I've seen all
01:00:47.030 --> 01:00:50.250
the Looney Tunes from the 40s and 50s. There
01:00:50.250 --> 01:00:54.690
are some from the 30s I missed, but I can go
01:00:54.690 --> 01:00:56.929
into my brain and go into the full context of
01:00:56.929 --> 01:01:01.119
all Looney Tunes and think of... all kinds of
01:01:01.119 --> 01:01:04.400
funny recommendations throughout their history.
01:01:05.760 --> 01:01:07.739
I'm not sure that I've seen any of the other
01:01:07.739 --> 01:01:11.980
Censored 11. I knew they existed, but I think
01:01:11.980 --> 01:01:13.860
I had heard that they were going to be releasing
01:01:13.860 --> 01:01:17.739
the Censored 11 as a Golden Collection -type
01:01:17.739 --> 01:01:20.699
DVD with all of the historical context. So I
01:01:20.699 --> 01:01:22.579
don't think I've ever looked up any of the others.
01:01:22.739 --> 01:01:25.239
Not that I'm clamoring to see them. I don't even
01:01:25.239 --> 01:01:26.960
know if there's anything else that would be worth
01:01:26.960 --> 01:01:29.909
watching. I mean, yeah. This is the one that
01:01:29.909 --> 01:01:32.989
I knew I needed to watch because it's the only
01:01:32.989 --> 01:01:35.329
one that I, the only one I specifically knew
01:01:35.329 --> 01:01:39.150
by name because it was a Snow White short. Yeah.
01:01:39.250 --> 01:01:41.829
Well, this one is probably the most popular of
01:01:41.829 --> 01:01:43.969
all of them. And it's, and I think, and it does
01:01:43.969 --> 01:01:46.690
get some, like some animation historians still
01:01:46.690 --> 01:01:48.949
look on it favorably because of the few positive
01:01:48.949 --> 01:01:51.510
things about it that we said that they like about
01:01:51.510 --> 01:01:56.010
it too. The rest of the Sense of Eleven, like.
01:01:57.420 --> 01:01:59.679
They're exactly what you expect them to be, like
01:01:59.679 --> 01:02:03.639
not pretty, like lame, like African stereotypes
01:02:03.639 --> 01:02:07.659
and stuff like that. So yeah, none of them are
01:02:07.659 --> 01:02:10.360
really worth watching. That's kind of what I
01:02:10.360 --> 01:02:12.659
figured. I've never really thought to even look
01:02:12.659 --> 01:02:14.820
into them. I just had Cole Black in the back
01:02:14.820 --> 01:02:17.159
of my head because it's a Snow White adaptation.
01:02:18.280 --> 01:02:21.099
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I had it in the back
01:02:21.099 --> 01:02:22.960
of my mind because it's like Bob Clampett cartoon,
01:02:23.099 --> 01:02:27.920
so I wanted to watch it, obviously. Yeah. Well,
01:02:28.000 --> 01:02:31.500
I think that is all I've got for these shorts.
01:02:31.860 --> 01:02:34.239
We'll probably be back to do more in the future
01:02:34.239 --> 01:02:36.659
because there's other fairy tales that I would
01:02:36.659 --> 01:02:39.559
like to do as episodes like this, because there
01:02:39.559 --> 01:02:42.139
are other fairy tales that all of the old studios
01:02:42.139 --> 01:02:45.320
did their take on, like the tortoise and the
01:02:45.320 --> 01:02:48.579
hare, the grasshopper and the ants, like those
01:02:48.579 --> 01:02:52.000
types of things. I would like to do just random.
01:02:52.480 --> 01:02:55.000
one -off episodes, like not even connected to
01:02:55.000 --> 01:02:57.619
me trying to do a whole series. I just think
01:02:57.619 --> 01:03:00.219
it would be cool to do that. So at some point
01:03:00.219 --> 01:03:01.820
in the future, maybe we'll do another one of
01:03:01.820 --> 01:03:04.059
these and pick a different story to talk about.
01:03:04.239 --> 01:03:07.440
Yeah, we'll see. Well, I think that will be all
01:03:07.440 --> 01:03:10.199
for today's episode. We will probably be back
01:03:10.199 --> 01:03:12.559
for something, but until then, would you like
01:03:12.559 --> 01:03:14.199
to tell people where they can find you if they
01:03:14.199 --> 01:03:16.449
would like more from you? Yeah, I talk about
01:03:16.449 --> 01:03:18.829
stuff like this all the time on my blog. That's
01:03:18.829 --> 01:03:20.829
the Entertainment Junkie blog. You can find me
01:03:20.829 --> 01:03:25.190
there at ejunkieblog .com. And I also yap about
01:03:25.190 --> 01:03:28.210
stuff a lot on Twitter. And my handle there is
01:03:28.210 --> 01:03:33.010
at ejunkie2014. Okay, well, thanks for joining
01:03:33.010 --> 01:03:35.389
me for this. And we'll see you another time for
01:03:35.389 --> 01:03:41.039
something else. All right, see you later. Thanks
01:03:41.039 --> 01:03:43.340
for listening to Every Version Ever. If you enjoyed
01:03:43.340 --> 01:03:45.340
this episode, make sure to subscribe and follow
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01:04:05.369 --> 01:04:06.250
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