00:00:00
Speaker 1: Let's talk about long COVID. A new study has got to the heart of it, undertaken by collaboration between Semary, Union of Queensland Flinda's UNI as well and this hopefully the findings will improve future disease management. Professor David Lynn, Professor of Systems Immunology, Semary and Flinda's on the line. David, good morning, thanks for your time.
00:00:21
Speaker 2: Good morning, Matthew, thanks for having me.
00:00:22
Speaker 1: What have you learned?
00:00:25
Speaker 2: So we've followed a cohort of patients who are unfortunately continuing to suffer from long COVID up to at least two years after they were initially infected. We applied a variety of different advanced technologies, first of all, to measure what was happening in their blood in terms of what genes are turned on and off in individuals with long COVID, particularly those suffering from cardiovascular symptoms or symptoms of the heart. What we found was that there was an increased expression of genes involved in flammation in those individuals with those cardiovascular and symptoms. At that gene expression level, our colleagues at the University of Queensland then looked at a kind of protein level and looked at these things called sider kinds. So spider kinds are proteins of the immune system that control inflammation, and again they saw the same thing that at low but detectable levels. Using a kind of advanced technology called nanotechnology, they were able to detect higher levels of these side of kinds in the blood of patients with this long COVID with cardiovascular symptoms. And what they then were able to show is if you take the blood or the serum, which is a kind of part of the blood after you've sin and don and put it on cart cells which are called cardiomer sites, it affects the function of those cells. So you can actually see these cells kind of pulsing like a heart in the dish. And if you add therem that contains these proteins, it affects the function of those selves. So you don't see that in people that don't have these symptoms or you know, have recovered well from long COVID. So it provides a new insight into why people with this kind of vascular symptoms associated with long COVID, because you can have a whole different array of symptoms in long COVID might have those effects and provide some ideas as to how you might diagnose and or treat them in the future.
00:02:36
Speaker 1: It's complicated by the fact that COVID appears to be so different. I mean, it's not like the flu. It's different in every individual, isn't it.
00:02:46
Speaker 2: Absolutely? And obviously it's changing as there are different variants of the virus as well. So it seems like long COVID was much more prevalent after the first variant from Wuhan, and have thankfully got a little less common more recent variant. But yeah, it seems to be very very variable between some people. Some people will get it and recover fine. Other people have those really debilitating symptoms that are persisting for years after infection.
00:03:25
Speaker 1: That's quite scary. I spoke with somebody in the last month, I reckon six weeks certainly, where someone studying COVID who said the chances of developing long COVID seem consistent with the number of times and individual contracts covid. Is that correct? Is that showing up that the more times you get COVID, the more likelihood you are to get long covid.
00:03:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, there does seem to be an association between the numbers of times you've been infected and increasing and that risk. Vaccination though, does provide good protection against both getting severely ill, but also seems to provide some protection against developing long COVID as well. And as I said, it seems to be quite dependent on the variant of the virus that you get as well. So there's a whole complex, uh, you know, plethora of factors that seem to mean that some people are at increased risk than other people.
00:04:31
Speaker 1: Is the cardiovascular part of it that you've been examining particularly, is that the biggest risk of long COVID or in terms of I suppose percentages, is that what people suffer.
00:04:42
Speaker 2: The most, No, So that's probably you know, it's one of the common symptoms associated with the other ones, including you know, brain fog as is often referred to, or cognition impairment. Fatigue is the most predominant thing that's reported. So the curry of vascular symptoms is definitely a subgroup of people. And I think what this means is that the launch over as a syndrome is actually a collection of different syndromes, likely with you know, different reasons and for each of those different symptoms. Rather than being kind of one uniform disease.
00:05:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wonder how far we are into understanding this, David, is it you know, would you say five eighty percent? In? It seems that every couple of months aside there's a new discovery.
00:05:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, this, we're still learning an awful lot about this this condition. Unfortunately, it is as I said, very complicated with you know, likely multiple different syndromes rather than there have been a single disease. Unfortunately, there's no approved you know, drug intervention for the treatment of long COVID. Lots of different things being trial, so you know, we really need to see more funding going into supporting trials off DUW drug treatments for these individuals because they're quite desperate for for that.
00:06:23
Speaker 1: You know.
00:06:24
Speaker 2: Right now, the treatment of disease is largely managed by you know, recibilitation, rest and things that, but it's quite frustrating when recovery takes you potentially years after infection.
00:06:37
Speaker 1: All right, So you've made the point vaccinition the best way to try and avoid all of this.
00:06:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, Definitely, the best line of protection is vaccination and obviously keeping those them booster doses up. I know we've all become kind of complacent to it, But certainly if you're in higher risk categories, if you're older, have any chronic diseases, keeping those boosters up to date is the best protection that you can give yourself.
00:07:07
Speaker 1: Given where immunization rates have fallen to though, and the report, as you'd be aware earlier this week on COVID management around the country found that the mandatory vaccines was a big turn off factor for people. Vaccination. We have had enough of that message, have we not? It might be important as a medical professional. I know you'd certainly argue it is, but gee, I think people just just switch off hearing it.
00:07:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree that that's a big factor at the moment people are fatigued with you know, they don't immediately see the risk. But you know, if you talk to an individual who's suffering from long COVID, it would frighten you. You know, these are often very highly functional individuals, you know, who have to really reducer or stop working. And you know, after a few minutes of talking to what these people are going through, you know, popping down to your pharmacy for a few minutes and getting a job seems like a relatively small price to pay.
00:08:15
Speaker 1: Yeah. Indeed, now Kay has just taxted in. I don't know if you'll know the answer to this, She says, Please ask when is the next vaccine update likely to be available?
00:08:26
Speaker 2: Yes, I'm not quite up to date on when the when the latest strains are are out at the moment, but you know, getting any vaccine that's available at the moment will give you at least good protection against the circling variant. So the best time to get vaccinated is it is now, particularly if it's been a while since you've been vaccinated.
00:08:53
Speaker 1: All right, boosters what every six months?
00:08:56
Speaker 2: Probably not that type of frequency in the high risk groups. I think they are recommending, you know, kind of once a year now it will be good. So kind of getting into the habit, you know, particularly if you're older, I said, if you have those chronic diseases, of getting vaccinated once a year, a bit like you would get a flu shot.
00:09:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, terrific. Appreciate your time, David, Thank you, Thanks Matt. Professor David Lynn, professor of systems Immunology at Sammary in Flinder's UNI, on the effects of long COVID and the research particularly into cardiovascular symptoms with long COVID
Speaker 1: Let's talk about long COVID. A new study has got to the heart of it, undertaken by collaboration between Semary, Union of Queensland Flinda's UNI as well and this hopefully the findings will improve future disease management. Professor David Lynn, Professor of Systems Immunology, Semary and Flinda's on the line. David, good morning, thanks for your time.
00:00:21
Speaker 2: Good morning, Matthew, thanks for having me.
00:00:22
Speaker 1: What have you learned?
00:00:25
Speaker 2: So we've followed a cohort of patients who are unfortunately continuing to suffer from long COVID up to at least two years after they were initially infected. We applied a variety of different advanced technologies, first of all, to measure what was happening in their blood in terms of what genes are turned on and off in individuals with long COVID, particularly those suffering from cardiovascular symptoms or symptoms of the heart. What we found was that there was an increased expression of genes involved in flammation in those individuals with those cardiovascular and symptoms. At that gene expression level, our colleagues at the University of Queensland then looked at a kind of protein level and looked at these things called sider kinds. So spider kinds are proteins of the immune system that control inflammation, and again they saw the same thing that at low but detectable levels. Using a kind of advanced technology called nanotechnology, they were able to detect higher levels of these side of kinds in the blood of patients with this long COVID with cardiovascular symptoms. And what they then were able to show is if you take the blood or the serum, which is a kind of part of the blood after you've sin and don and put it on cart cells which are called cardiomer sites, it affects the function of those cells. So you can actually see these cells kind of pulsing like a heart in the dish. And if you add therem that contains these proteins, it affects the function of those selves. So you don't see that in people that don't have these symptoms or you know, have recovered well from long COVID. So it provides a new insight into why people with this kind of vascular symptoms associated with long COVID, because you can have a whole different array of symptoms in long COVID might have those effects and provide some ideas as to how you might diagnose and or treat them in the future.
00:02:36
Speaker 1: It's complicated by the fact that COVID appears to be so different. I mean, it's not like the flu. It's different in every individual, isn't it.
00:02:46
Speaker 2: Absolutely? And obviously it's changing as there are different variants of the virus as well. So it seems like long COVID was much more prevalent after the first variant from Wuhan, and have thankfully got a little less common more recent variant. But yeah, it seems to be very very variable between some people. Some people will get it and recover fine. Other people have those really debilitating symptoms that are persisting for years after infection.
00:03:25
Speaker 1: That's quite scary. I spoke with somebody in the last month, I reckon six weeks certainly, where someone studying COVID who said the chances of developing long COVID seem consistent with the number of times and individual contracts covid. Is that correct? Is that showing up that the more times you get COVID, the more likelihood you are to get long covid.
00:03:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, there does seem to be an association between the numbers of times you've been infected and increasing and that risk. Vaccination though, does provide good protection against both getting severely ill, but also seems to provide some protection against developing long COVID as well. And as I said, it seems to be quite dependent on the variant of the virus that you get as well. So there's a whole complex, uh, you know, plethora of factors that seem to mean that some people are at increased risk than other people.
00:04:31
Speaker 1: Is the cardiovascular part of it that you've been examining particularly, is that the biggest risk of long COVID or in terms of I suppose percentages, is that what people suffer.
00:04:42
Speaker 2: The most, No, So that's probably you know, it's one of the common symptoms associated with the other ones, including you know, brain fog as is often referred to, or cognition impairment. Fatigue is the most predominant thing that's reported. So the curry of vascular symptoms is definitely a subgroup of people. And I think what this means is that the launch over as a syndrome is actually a collection of different syndromes, likely with you know, different reasons and for each of those different symptoms. Rather than being kind of one uniform disease.
00:05:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wonder how far we are into understanding this, David, is it you know, would you say five eighty percent? In? It seems that every couple of months aside there's a new discovery.
00:05:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, this, we're still learning an awful lot about this this condition. Unfortunately, it is as I said, very complicated with you know, likely multiple different syndromes rather than there have been a single disease. Unfortunately, there's no approved you know, drug intervention for the treatment of long COVID. Lots of different things being trial, so you know, we really need to see more funding going into supporting trials off DUW drug treatments for these individuals because they're quite desperate for for that.
00:06:23
Speaker 1: You know.
00:06:24
Speaker 2: Right now, the treatment of disease is largely managed by you know, recibilitation, rest and things that, but it's quite frustrating when recovery takes you potentially years after infection.
00:06:37
Speaker 1: All right, So you've made the point vaccinition the best way to try and avoid all of this.
00:06:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, Definitely, the best line of protection is vaccination and obviously keeping those them booster doses up. I know we've all become kind of complacent to it, But certainly if you're in higher risk categories, if you're older, have any chronic diseases, keeping those boosters up to date is the best protection that you can give yourself.
00:07:07
Speaker 1: Given where immunization rates have fallen to though, and the report, as you'd be aware earlier this week on COVID management around the country found that the mandatory vaccines was a big turn off factor for people. Vaccination. We have had enough of that message, have we not? It might be important as a medical professional. I know you'd certainly argue it is, but gee, I think people just just switch off hearing it.
00:07:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree that that's a big factor at the moment people are fatigued with you know, they don't immediately see the risk. But you know, if you talk to an individual who's suffering from long COVID, it would frighten you. You know, these are often very highly functional individuals, you know, who have to really reducer or stop working. And you know, after a few minutes of talking to what these people are going through, you know, popping down to your pharmacy for a few minutes and getting a job seems like a relatively small price to pay.
00:08:15
Speaker 1: Yeah. Indeed, now Kay has just taxted in. I don't know if you'll know the answer to this, She says, Please ask when is the next vaccine update likely to be available?
00:08:26
Speaker 2: Yes, I'm not quite up to date on when the when the latest strains are are out at the moment, but you know, getting any vaccine that's available at the moment will give you at least good protection against the circling variant. So the best time to get vaccinated is it is now, particularly if it's been a while since you've been vaccinated.
00:08:53
Speaker 1: All right, boosters what every six months?
00:08:56
Speaker 2: Probably not that type of frequency in the high risk groups. I think they are recommending, you know, kind of once a year now it will be good. So kind of getting into the habit, you know, particularly if you're older, I said, if you have those chronic diseases, of getting vaccinated once a year, a bit like you would get a flu shot.
00:09:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, terrific. Appreciate your time, David, Thank you, Thanks Matt. Professor David Lynn, professor of systems Immunology at Sammary in Flinder's UNI, on the effects of long COVID and the research particularly into cardiovascular symptoms with long COVID
