When Life Changes: Transitions, Stress & What the Enneagram Reveals (with Courtney Bareman)

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Welcome to Enneagram with JB, a podcast about Enneagram personalities, where you'll uncover and discover more about yourself and others through the helpful tool of the Enneagram.
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Hey friends, welcome back to Enneagram with JB.
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I am here with my good friend Courtney Barman.
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Hello, hello.
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And it has been a minute, girl.
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I know I know.
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I'm so happy to be staring at your beautiful face.
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Oh my gosh, I feel the same about you.
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This summer has been full for both of us.
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And, you know, there are just seasons of life where change happens slowly enough that you don't notice it.
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And then there's seasons that it happens very quickly, maybe even feels like all at once, and it's overwhelming.
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And it feels like this summer has been a bit of that for me.
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And I think maybe even for you.
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I would that was accurate.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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There's been so much going on.
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You know, I've got twins that this is their senior year of high school.
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So we just entered that.
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We did senior pictures this summer and just trying to like get our heads wrapped around that and and college visits.
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And we thought we had a direction and now we don't know.
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And so it's kind of all up in the air.
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Yeah.
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So it's like, oh, we've got to schedule more college visits.
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And we've got to schedule those, you know, additional senior pictures because the ones that we did were not, that was not it, guys.
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And so nice, you know, then you think about that.
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Then on top of all of that, my daughter Ashlyn got engaged this weekend.
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Yeah.
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So exciting.
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Yeah.
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So I'm gonna have twins that graduate, a daughter getting married, and I signed a book contract with Wiley in May.
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And so I'm writing Enneagram for Dummies.
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And in the middle of all of this, no big deal.
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No big deal.
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It's like three huge things.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Taking some college courses, all this good stuff.
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Um, just throw it in there, right?
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This is truly a seven.
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It left to our own, because I have that strong seven wing.
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I that's what I'm like, left to my own devices.
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This is how, but it's like, it isn't like you did anything, but you're like, this is just life.
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It's full technique, kind of love it until all of a sudden it's overwhelming.
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Oh my gosh.
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Well, I have thought like, I don't know that I'm the healthiest version of myself right now.
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And and I this is how I know.
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Yeah, I shop.
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I uh same spend money when I'm stressed.
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And I want like I'm a bargain shopper too.
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So like I want a good deal.
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So then, you know, like the time spent, I should be sitting down at my computer and I'm like, oh, but Hobby Lobby's calling my name.
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You know, it's like, yeah, it's terrible.
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So I do the same thing when I'm stressed or sad.
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Oh or mad.
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Basically, the feelings I don't want to feel, I shop it out.
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But uh yeah, yeah.
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Anyways, I yeah, I love to shop, makes my heart happy.
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I have I have a store recommendation for later.
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Remind me.
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Oh, tell me downtown Franklin.
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Okay, Parker or Palmer Kennedy, downtown Franklin.
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Oh, yeah, it's like really great.
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Okay.
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I get all my stuff there.
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All right, yeah.
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Anyways, we can talk later, but it's amazing.
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Good.
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I'm gonna have to check it out.
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I think I actually already have, I think I have a dress from them.
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That's what that's what I got.
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I got a bunch of wedding dresses and fun stuff.
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Well now, like, you know, attending a wedding, obviously this summer, and it was like a dream, like really nice stuff for sleep.
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I love it.
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There you go.
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Oh my gosh, I love good deal.
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So we're in the thick of it.
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In addition to all this, Courtney and I both had we just we had birthdays.
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We had our birthdays.
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We have that big summer energy breakfast.
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Yeah, we do.
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Yeah, I turned 44.
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Oh my gosh.
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I know.
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Double, I'm leaning into like the symmetry of that or whatever.
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I just am like, okay, it's gonna be a great year.
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Yeah, like 44 is a great year.
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It is a great year.
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Excited about it.
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Girl, I turned 49.
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This is it.
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I can't believe that.
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This is this is it.
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This is this is you guys, and when I and I'm like, wait, so when you celebrate your first birthday, you already you already lived that year.
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So I already lived 49 years.
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I am in my 50th year.
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This is true.
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I it's wild to think about.
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You're very wise.
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Oh, well, thank you.
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That's kind.
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I that sounds surreal though.
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I cannot wrap my brain around it.
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And then I'm like, but you get twins graduating.
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You've got a 24-year-old, a 22-year-old.
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This is right, Jackie.
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I know I feel like no, no, no, I'm 28.
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What are you talking about?
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I feel the same thing.
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Like, I'll see people who are my age, and I'm like, oh, they look like they're aging.
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And you're like, I'm like, oh, that's too bad for them.
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And then I'm like, oh, wait, they're my age.
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They have children my same age.
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Like, this is crazy.
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Yeah.
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I look in the mirror and I'm like, oh, those crow speeds.
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There we are.
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Yeah.
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Um, it is wild though to just be in this season with so much going on.
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And both of us are coaching clients, and both of us love the Enneagram.
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We love to dive in and help people understand personality, uh, look at those strengths and weaknesses.
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You know what's been interesting for me?
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I've been doing a ton of research for this new book and just kind of deep diving into a lot of different areas.
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And what I focused on a couple of years ago, even last year, growth, growth, growth, growth, growth, right?
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Yeah.
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What I've actually kind of tapped into is understanding the stress side of our numbers even more.
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Right.
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And I think it was like we need to get away from that stress side.
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That's originally how I think I learned the any of it.
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It's a very American, like oh, yeah.
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Culturally, like, don't you feel like that?
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Where it's like, don't do this, get away from that.
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Right.
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Rather than like what you're maybe saying, like lean into it, learn about it, be curious about it.
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Sorry to interrupt you.
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No, it's like run away from it, right?
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Yeah.
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Or get to the high side, get to the high side.
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And there's so much growth that happens when we understand that arrow towards the stress side, and when we understand what that means, it's an indicator.
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Okay.
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So when we start to see ourselves in stress, that is like the indicator light on the dashboard.
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Pay attention.
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Something is going on, something is causing stress.
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And so, and I mean, this summer has been a great opportunity for me to see the indicator light.
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Yeah.
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I've seen a lot of flashing lights for myself.
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Just kind of understanding, like, oh, this is me in stress.
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What am I doing different?
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Have I grown in stress?
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Like getting curious instead of like the frantic escapism of my personality or frenetic.
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That's what people say, but I like frantic better.
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Yeah.
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I think I understand frantic better, but that that energy that happens in that seven, wanting to escape in stress.
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And in yours is different, and all of us are different, but I'm not escaping.
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So I'm like recognizing I'm in it and there, I need breaks.
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Yep.
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So in the midst of really difficult, strenuous work as far as like writing and even writing social media, you guys, like it's a job.
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It's this is a thing.
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It's not like just happens.
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Right.
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No, I've got to really think about what do I want to communicate, what's helpful and all those things, right?
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So crafting that, curating that.
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But all of that, thinking through it, um, what I've noticed about that stress side is like I need breaks.
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And so instead of escaping to, I'm conscious of what I'm doing today.
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And it sounds like you're putting boundaries around it where you're like, okay, you will be able, like you don't have to stay in this forever.
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Right.
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You have something to look forward to and it's but it's boundary.
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And then you get to come back.
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Yes.
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It is like, okay, I can take a break and I can go to Hobby Lobby, or I can take a break and I can go to the mall, or what I can go to lunch with a girlfriend.
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I can it's like a reward.
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Yeah, it is like a reward.
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It's like a reward.
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I love that.
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That's kind of what, but understanding that about my personality type.
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So it's not like uh it's not crazy escapism like it used to be.
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Now it's much more like a reward.
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Like you say, measure.
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Yeah.
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So you as an eight, right?
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This is not even where I was gonna go.
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I gave her a whole script, and here we go in a different direction.
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But we'll get back to our script.
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Yep, we're good.
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We'll get back to it.
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But you as an eight in stress, get quiet.
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Yeah.
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Will you talk about that?
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Because I don't think people think that about the eight in stress.
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I think that they think that you guys get loud and bold and aggressive and all of those things.
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But talk to us about that.
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Sure.
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Well, kind of, okay.
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So it's like your escape, right?
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And so it's at first, it's kind of like there's these last, like, I want to control, or I want to, I want to try to be in power.
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And if I'm not getting those needs met, and and and by that I guess I just mean I don't want to get um taken over.
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It isn't that I want to control others necessarily.
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Um, but if that doesn't work, yeah, it's like we go to fives and that's quiet.
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That is alone, that is low energy.
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That is those are three things that would generally not describe me.
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I love to be with people.
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I am usually pretty high energy, pretty up.
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But it so it feels like a pretty drastic change.
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And it can kind of come on slow, but it's also like for me, I know, like you're saying, like when when I have those feelings or thoughts about escape, for me, it's like when when all of a sudden it's like, oh, this feels like too much.
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This feels like too much, like going out and talking to people too much.
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Where usually I love that it like lights me up.
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I'm excited to be with other people.
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If and it feels honestly protective.
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It's like, oh, I like I don't know, I don't know if I can muster it.
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I don't want to get hurt, I don't know what they're gonna say.
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So it's a very, it's a very big change, I would say.
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And I don't love it.
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It makes me feel lonely.
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So what I try to do is like kind of what you said, like, what do I need to do to take care of myself?
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Okay, move my body, go for a walk, listen to some music.
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And again, like we have four kids.
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That can sometimes be overwhelming.
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Right.
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So even to just be like, hey guys, I'm gonna like, and they're I'm not like leaving them, you know.
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My husband will be home or whatever, but I'm like, I'll be back in like half an hour.
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I'll go for a walk, or I'm gonna go watch Netflix for half an hour and I'll be right down.
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I might take a shower and rinse off the day and then come back.
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So those are kind of that's kind of what it looks like for me.
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More alone time um and quiet time than I would usually have for sure.
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That's good.
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It's just I think it's helpful to hear some of the healthy ways that we process the stress side instead of it being such a negative thing that we're trying to escape from or fix.
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I guess it's more fixed.
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Yeah, fix or even deny.
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I shouldn't feel this way, I shouldn't replace.
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And it's like, wow.
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Right.
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It's just, I think, yeah, there's lots of great teachers out there, Enneagram teachers out there, that talk about um using it in a in a healthy way.
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I'm just you need it, you need the stress side.
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This the stress side, it it tells us something.
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If we are willing to pay attention and not turn it into shame or denial, it is it is it's an invitation to like grow and learn.
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Yeah, yeah.
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So this, you know, I think that this season has been crazy.
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So I talked about what's happening in my world.
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Yeah, okay, with all this happening.
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But Courtney, Courtney and I were not very far apart in age, but we are very far apart in children.
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It's true.
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Courtney, I launched my babies into their senior year of high school.
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You launched your baby where the kindergarten.
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Yes.
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And let me tell you, I tend to do this, so whatever.
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And this isn't a teaching, this is just me sharing.
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I mean, when preschool was ending, I was already grieving.
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I loved his preschool.
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It's called Mustard Seed, it's here in Franklin.
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It's the it is, I mean, it's a little nest of a school.
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The teachers have been there forever, they know what they're doing.
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They gave us this little bag of goodies and pictures, and I cried through the whole thing, and I was like, Oh, he needs to go back, he needs to go back.
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And everybody I met with was like, no, he doesn't.
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It's time for him to go.
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It's time for him to apply.
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And I'm like, but are we sure?
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Like, uh, you know, and it at some point my husband gently said this, like, it probably would have been maybe more for you.
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And I'm like, oh, okay, chill out.
00:11:45.120 --> 00:11:48.240
But so he started kindergarten and it's been really great.
00:11:48.399 --> 00:11:51.279
But I did, I spent all summer kind of grieving that.
00:11:51.360 --> 00:11:55.919
Like I would look over at him on the couch and I'm like, oh my gosh, he's not gonna be here all day with me.
00:11:56.000 --> 00:11:57.600
Like, you know, he used to.
00:11:57.679 --> 00:11:59.120
We it's gonna look different.
00:11:59.200 --> 00:12:01.360
So I felt a lot of those feelings.
00:12:01.600 --> 00:12:04.480
And the fact that he's doing well makes it easier too.
00:12:04.960 --> 00:12:06.960
But man, it was that was emotional.
00:12:07.039 --> 00:12:09.440
That was a hard, a hard summer.
00:12:09.519 --> 00:12:10.720
And he's our baby, he's our baby.
00:12:10.879 --> 00:12:11.919
There's not gonna be another one.
00:12:12.080 --> 00:12:13.440
And I think that's the other hard piece too.
00:12:13.519 --> 00:12:18.799
It's like, I don't know if you do this, but like I'm walking around Target and I'm like, oh, we're not gonna have baby clothes until like grandkids.
00:12:18.879 --> 00:12:19.120
Yeah.
00:12:19.360 --> 00:12:21.440
Or just like weird thoughts like that.
00:12:21.519 --> 00:12:22.080
Yes.
00:12:22.480 --> 00:12:27.600
And and we'll probably never have an empty nest, which is you know, part of it too.
00:12:27.759 --> 00:12:30.159
But it's it's so that's been hard but good.
00:12:30.320 --> 00:12:31.679
You know, drop off went well.
00:12:31.759 --> 00:12:33.440
He moonwalked his way into school.
00:12:33.519 --> 00:12:36.879
Oh my like the kid he is, his teacher loves him.
00:12:37.039 --> 00:12:38.480
Um, it's all the things you would want.
00:12:38.720 --> 00:12:47.200
It's great, it's just it's been emotional for everybody, and it's it's a lot for littles too, you know, to go back to school to have somebody telling you what to do, especially.
00:12:47.279 --> 00:12:48.559
I think I'm raising at eight.
00:12:48.799 --> 00:12:49.360
Oh, okay.
00:12:49.679 --> 00:12:50.960
He's a spicy little meatball.
00:12:51.200 --> 00:12:52.159
He is spicy, yeah.
00:12:52.320 --> 00:12:53.279
He's so spicy.
00:12:53.759 --> 00:12:57.919
Yeah, he I've already got stories where I'm like, well, that's just him.
00:12:58.240 --> 00:13:00.559
You know, if he was my first kid, it would have probably freaked me out.
00:13:00.720 --> 00:13:03.360
But I'm kind of like, well, I'm just glad you guys don't spank.
00:13:03.519 --> 00:13:04.559
You know, like it's all good.
00:13:04.720 --> 00:13:06.320
So yeah, that's about it.
00:13:06.559 --> 00:13:13.360
Oh, it I it's you know, it's just such a such an interesting season for so many people.
00:13:13.519 --> 00:13:20.559
Yes, you know, I've got friends that they're their kids are getting married, just like Ashlena's, like they're ahead of me a little bit in that.
00:13:20.879 --> 00:13:22.720
Um, you know, having grandbabies.
00:13:22.799 --> 00:13:25.360
I've got friends having grandbabies, which that is wild to me.
00:13:25.440 --> 00:13:27.440
I'm like, oh my gosh, we are in this season.
00:13:27.759 --> 00:13:29.440
It's not that far off, yeah.
00:13:29.600 --> 00:13:30.159
No, yeah.
00:13:30.320 --> 00:13:31.679
No, I mean I have a 24-year-old.
00:13:31.759 --> 00:13:34.639
Like, if you were this he could be, he could have been married and had a baby.
00:13:34.720 --> 00:13:36.159
I had babies by 24.
00:13:36.320 --> 00:13:38.480
My first I had him at 24.
00:13:39.200 --> 00:13:42.480
So I think that it's just such transition.
00:13:42.559 --> 00:13:44.559
And so many people are going through in different seasons.
00:13:44.639 --> 00:13:51.039
So it might not be launching kids or getting married, it might be jobs, or it might be dating, or it might be divorce.
00:13:51.200 --> 00:13:53.840
You know, it's it there's a lot of retirement.
00:13:54.000 --> 00:13:54.559
Yes.
00:13:54.799 --> 00:14:00.879
Um, there's a lot of different things happening, and we all have big feelings about these things.
00:14:01.360 --> 00:14:08.159
And depending on how we were raised, it's really gonna give us some insight into what we do with feelings.
00:14:08.320 --> 00:14:08.639
Okay.
00:14:08.799 --> 00:14:19.679
So even though we have all these different personality types, there's still the construct of how we were raised huge impact on how we process and navigate the world.
00:14:20.080 --> 00:14:20.559
Right, right.
00:14:20.639 --> 00:14:28.720
So I've got a mom that is an Enneagram too, and she is um like she still is like, hi baby girl.
00:14:29.039 --> 00:14:30.399
That's like what she was.
00:14:30.639 --> 00:14:37.840
She's just, you know, she's like tells my girls, like, you're girl, you're you're girls from God, you know, these things that she says to my kids.
00:14:38.080 --> 00:14:44.720
We just are all just but she just planned her birthday party because she's like, you know what, I'm planning my own birthday party.
00:14:44.879 --> 00:14:45.759
And it was yesterday.
00:14:45.840 --> 00:14:48.159
Yeah, um, what well August 30th.
00:14:48.240 --> 00:14:49.360
I don't know when this is airing.
00:14:49.519 --> 00:14:50.480
So August 30th.
00:14:50.559 --> 00:14:53.200
So she planned her birthday party, and my niece turned 13.
00:14:53.279 --> 00:14:54.559
So she's like, we'll do a joint.
00:14:54.639 --> 00:14:55.840
So Anna and Nana.
00:14:56.000 --> 00:15:03.840
And so they did a birthday party together, but my mom is up and to the right, so she's positive.
00:15:04.000 --> 00:15:06.080
We're gonna figure it out, things like this.
00:15:06.320 --> 00:15:10.639
So um, she can have a lot of emotion, but nobody else really, you know.
00:15:10.799 --> 00:15:13.120
Um, and so that that's been interesting.
00:15:13.200 --> 00:15:27.200
And then Steven grew up in a different home that emotions were were more kind of buttoned up, and so he is not as good at freely expressing those emotions or sharing even what he's feeling.
00:15:27.279 --> 00:15:32.159
Even when Ashlyn walked in with a ring on his on her finger, I went right to her.
00:15:32.320 --> 00:15:42.159
He kind of held back a little bit, and it was like interesting to watch the dynamic and uh with some understanding, you know, because it would have been easy for me to be like, what are you doing?
00:15:42.240 --> 00:15:43.039
You know, why are you?
00:15:43.200 --> 00:15:47.039
And I was like, go, babe, go, yeah, get go see your girl.
00:15:47.519 --> 00:15:50.240
You know, and he I could see the hesitation in that.
00:15:50.799 --> 00:15:59.200
And it's interesting because I'm like, this, I think that there's dynamics that plug into this that are it's not, it's not just current, even though we've been married for 27 years.
00:15:59.360 --> 00:16:05.519
Of course, there's still how he learned about emotions and what to do and about himself.
00:16:05.679 --> 00:16:22.639
And so when we are thinking about all of this and working through all of this, I think it's important for us to understand these that totally that uh, you know, all of these different life changes and situations that happen, how we deal with emotions, even according to our personality types, is different.
00:16:22.879 --> 00:16:24.799
Very it varies so vastly.
00:16:24.960 --> 00:16:25.679
Yeah, it does.
00:16:25.919 --> 00:16:30.480
I think, you know, one of those, um, so so it's like if you think of it like a funnel, right?
00:16:30.559 --> 00:16:36.000
It's to me, I'm like, okay, there's the temperament you have, like the God-given, or however you want to put it.
00:16:36.080 --> 00:16:38.799
I feel like I carried four kids in my belly, every kid was different.
00:16:39.279 --> 00:16:41.519
So before they even enter the world, I had a sense of who they were.
00:16:41.679 --> 00:16:45.759
And then it's like the family you enter into, i.e., how we learn to process them.
00:16:46.080 --> 00:16:49.600
And even from that, it's like the the season that family's in.
00:16:50.080 --> 00:16:53.200
Because sometimes, you know, brothers and sisters, you know, siblings will be like, oh, it was great.
00:16:53.279 --> 00:16:54.559
You're like, that was not great for me.
00:16:54.639 --> 00:16:54.720
Right.
00:16:54.960 --> 00:16:55.440
Or whatever.
00:16:55.919 --> 00:17:04.079
You know, so it's like if you're I think of it like making a cake, and it's like, well, no wonder there's no two, no two sevens are gonna look exactly alike.
00:17:04.240 --> 00:17:06.400
Like there are gonna be things that are similar, right?
00:17:06.559 --> 00:17:09.359
But also there's room for a lot of difference.
00:17:09.599 --> 00:17:15.440
It doesn't mean anyone's wrong or not a seven or whatever, it's just totally different.
00:17:16.000 --> 00:17:23.759
I think that that's so important to think about too, because the stereotypes that happen within the Enneagram, it's like, well, all sevens are this.
00:17:23.920 --> 00:17:29.680
Well, they don't present like a seven, and it's like, no, no, no, there's so much happening below the surface, right?
00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:31.759
Totally, and I get that a lot.
00:17:31.920 --> 00:17:39.920
I have a good friend that's an Enneagram seven, she's got a six-wing, I'm a seven with an eight-wing, and we don't process life the same.
00:17:40.000 --> 00:17:40.240
Okay.
00:17:40.480 --> 00:17:46.160
And her husband will say, like, I just question her seven a lot when I look at you and how you run.
00:17:46.400 --> 00:17:50.880
Like you, you chase and you go and you do, and she's different than me.
00:17:51.039 --> 00:17:52.240
She really is different than me.
00:17:52.400 --> 00:17:58.880
She's more kind of more of a homebody, but there's so much seven in her, you know, spiciness and all the kind of stuff.
00:17:59.039 --> 00:18:01.279
But it's interesting when you think about it.
00:18:01.519 --> 00:18:14.799
So when we're thinking about all these different parts of ourselves and all the changes and the seasons that happen, and even, you know, as we're I'm sitting here thinking about like we're we're about to enter into a new season within the year, fall.
00:18:14.880 --> 00:18:15.119
Yep.
00:18:15.279 --> 00:18:20.400
And so there are changes that happen within us year after year, day after day.
00:18:20.640 --> 00:18:22.079
And how do we recognize them?
00:18:22.240 --> 00:18:23.279
What do we do about them?
00:18:23.359 --> 00:18:24.240
And what does this mean?
00:18:24.400 --> 00:18:34.400
So Courtney and I have big transitions, kids, you know, kindergarten to to seniors in high school to um to getting married, all the things.
00:18:34.480 --> 00:18:36.319
Like my son turns 25 this year.
00:18:36.480 --> 00:18:42.240
Like there's a lot of changes that are happening for everybody, but what do we do with them?
00:18:42.400 --> 00:18:50.960
And so what I think that we have to be careful is of letting seasons define who we are.
00:18:51.200 --> 00:18:52.000
That's really good.
00:18:52.160 --> 00:18:53.839
That's really yeah, absolutely.
00:18:54.079 --> 00:19:00.559
Like being that as much as we can, being the stable force or having that perspective where like it is a season.
00:19:01.039 --> 00:19:02.559
This doesn't have to define us.
00:19:02.640 --> 00:19:02.880
Right.
00:19:03.119 --> 00:19:05.359
Um it's a part of the story, it's not the whole story.
00:19:05.519 --> 00:19:06.079
Right, right.
00:19:06.240 --> 00:19:07.200
It's not everything.
00:19:07.359 --> 00:19:09.839
And I think that that's tricky.
00:19:10.079 --> 00:19:13.440
You know, we've got some friends that have known us since we were in high school, Steve and I.
00:19:13.599 --> 00:19:18.720
And so they still see us through the lens of horse, you know, even our 20s.
00:19:18.799 --> 00:19:18.960
Yeah.
00:19:19.200 --> 00:19:21.119
And I'm like, but that's not who we are anymore.
00:19:21.279 --> 00:19:25.200
Like we've done so much work, we've grown so much, so it's not who we are anymore.
00:19:25.359 --> 00:19:25.599
Yep.
00:19:25.839 --> 00:19:35.920
And even he he was, we were, I was reading him something that I was writing, and and he was like, Yeah, yeah, you're scattered, yeah, you're this.
00:19:36.079 --> 00:19:37.920
And I'm like, wait, no work.
00:19:38.240 --> 00:19:39.359
No, not anymore.
00:19:39.839 --> 00:19:43.839
That feels like a younger version of me that you're still holding on to.
00:19:44.240 --> 00:19:46.799
And and I can see how I do that with him.
00:19:46.960 --> 00:19:50.000
Like, I still see him through a lens that might not be true.
00:19:50.160 --> 00:19:50.319
Right.
00:19:50.480 --> 00:20:06.240
Um, you know, and so growth matters, you know, what we do matters, but I I really think that making sure that we're not putting ourselves in boxes by by establishing, like, well, I am only this, or this is who I've been for all these years.
00:20:06.480 --> 00:20:12.240
And so I can feel that shift with my kids all launching into like this being the end.
00:20:12.319 --> 00:20:21.680
Like I've been the mom, I've been the stable force, I've been all of these things, and I can feel every bit of that churning within me.
00:20:21.759 --> 00:20:24.160
Like, but what does this next season mean?
00:20:24.319 --> 00:20:29.119
And I have a lot of fear about what life is.
00:20:29.680 --> 00:20:30.000
Yeah, yeah.
00:20:30.079 --> 00:20:31.440
I'm like, am I gonna be alone?
00:20:31.599 --> 00:20:32.480
Am I gonna be lonely?
00:20:32.640 --> 00:20:35.039
Am I gonna be, what am I gonna do?
00:20:35.359 --> 00:20:36.160
Come hang out with me.
00:20:36.400 --> 00:20:37.839
I have a variable house.
00:20:38.880 --> 00:20:40.319
No, but you're you're right.
00:20:40.480 --> 00:20:43.359
And it's it's um it can be daunting.
00:20:43.839 --> 00:20:48.880
And I think what you're touching on there too, it's like the limiting beliefs is is so huge.
00:20:48.960 --> 00:20:54.400
I didn't even know that phrase until probably, I don't know, like five or six years ago, where it's like, oh, that's a thing.
00:20:54.720 --> 00:20:57.119
You know, and as a seven, you don't make limits.
00:20:57.519 --> 00:20:58.400
I don't like limits.
00:20:58.640 --> 00:21:05.599
Don't and and there's something really almost offensive to my sensibilities too, when someone else's belief limits me.
00:21:05.759 --> 00:21:06.079
Yes.
00:21:06.319 --> 00:21:16.400
Like it's one thing, like, because I can usually like we're again, you're you're seven-wing eight, I'm an eight-wing seven, you got a lot of energy, fair amount of similarities in how how we kind of move in the world.
00:21:16.640 --> 00:21:19.839
I'm probably not gonna limit myself intentionally at least.
00:21:20.079 --> 00:21:29.680
But when others do, oh man, you know, but but if we're not willing to look at these beliefs, or I think the things that are can be most dangerous is it's like, well, we just do it, that's because that's the way we do it.
00:21:29.839 --> 00:21:30.000
Right.
00:21:30.160 --> 00:21:31.279
Of course we're gonna do it that way.
00:21:31.440 --> 00:21:31.599
Right.
00:21:31.759 --> 00:21:34.640
And that can almost be a really dangerous thought pattern.
00:21:34.880 --> 00:21:37.039
It's like, of course, of course, this is how we do it.
00:21:37.119 --> 00:21:41.440
It might, if you have those, it might just be worth like, huh, I wonder why.
00:21:41.519 --> 00:21:42.799
Or is that still serving?
00:21:42.960 --> 00:21:43.119
Yeah.
00:21:43.279 --> 00:21:44.559
Is that really the only way?
00:21:44.720 --> 00:21:51.039
You know, just those kinds of things where again, like slowing down and asking questions because um you might be surprised.
00:21:51.200 --> 00:21:57.200
It might be different than you think, and you might find yourself um experiencing some more freedom and hope than you otherwise would.
00:21:57.440 --> 00:21:58.559
Yeah, and you don't have to.
00:21:58.640 --> 00:21:59.759
I think like this is well, this is.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:01.039
Just what we've always done.
00:22:01.279 --> 00:22:01.680
Exactly.
00:22:01.839 --> 00:22:02.160
Okay.
00:22:02.640 --> 00:22:03.680
Do you like it?
00:22:03.839 --> 00:22:04.559
Do you, you know?
00:22:04.799 --> 00:22:05.839
Yeah, that's such a good question.
00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:06.480
Do you like it?
00:22:06.640 --> 00:22:07.279
Do you like it?
00:22:07.440 --> 00:22:08.400
Is it serving you?
00:22:08.559 --> 00:22:08.720
Yeah.
00:22:08.880 --> 00:22:11.759
Because remember, you have agency and power in your own life.
00:22:11.839 --> 00:22:12.720
Don't forget that.
00:22:12.960 --> 00:22:18.480
You know, if you think about like we've always had meat, a starch, and two vegetables at dinner.
00:22:18.559 --> 00:22:18.720
Right.
00:22:18.880 --> 00:22:21.039
I'm like, oh, I did not grow up like that, guys.
00:22:21.279 --> 00:22:24.400
Like, for example, I don't even think we had vegetables most of the time.
00:22:24.640 --> 00:22:28.559
My brother didn't even know that vegetables didn't come out of a can or a frozen bag.
00:22:28.640 --> 00:22:29.440
So there's that.
00:22:29.839 --> 00:22:30.400
Yeah.
00:22:30.640 --> 00:22:30.960
Yeah.
00:22:31.119 --> 00:22:31.839
For example.
00:22:32.079 --> 00:22:32.960
Yes, exactly.
00:22:33.119 --> 00:22:33.759
That's really good.
00:22:35.119 --> 00:22:36.000
I thought you were going to tell.
00:22:36.400 --> 00:22:37.279
No, that's really good.
00:22:37.440 --> 00:22:38.319
That's a great example.
00:22:38.400 --> 00:22:40.720
But you could be like, does that do I like that?
00:22:40.880 --> 00:22:41.599
Do we want to do that?
00:22:41.680 --> 00:22:41.759
Yeah.
00:22:41.920 --> 00:22:42.799
Do we continue that?
00:22:42.960 --> 00:22:43.279
Yeah.
00:22:43.359 --> 00:22:43.920
Um, right.
00:22:44.079 --> 00:22:45.039
Yeah, that's really good.
00:22:45.200 --> 00:22:48.960
I just always like when people tell growing up stories, I'm like, oh, little Jackie, you know?
00:22:49.440 --> 00:22:53.599
Yeah, well, yeah, little Jackie did not have a meat, carb, and two vegetables.
00:22:53.839 --> 00:22:56.000
Little Jackie had like butter sammies.
00:22:56.319 --> 00:22:57.279
Or just, I don't know.
00:22:57.440 --> 00:23:00.640
My mom worked, and I think I started cooking really young at like 13.
00:23:00.720 --> 00:23:01.440
I was the cook.
00:23:01.519 --> 00:23:06.880
And if my stepdad made pasta, it was always like Aldante crunchy.
00:23:07.119 --> 00:23:09.519
So we didn't like for him to make things.
00:23:09.680 --> 00:23:11.359
And I think, you know, he laughs now.
00:23:11.440 --> 00:23:12.640
He's like, I did it on purpose.
00:23:12.799 --> 00:23:13.920
That was how I punished you.
00:23:14.079 --> 00:23:15.519
And I'm like, well, it was terrible.
00:23:15.759 --> 00:23:16.960
What a mastermind do.
00:23:17.599 --> 00:23:22.640
So, but I do think about um, you know, what has worked.
00:23:22.720 --> 00:23:24.319
And Steve and I have a lot of conversations.
00:23:24.400 --> 00:23:29.039
He's probably so sick of me having conversations about what is next.
00:23:29.200 --> 00:23:29.599
Yeah.
00:23:29.839 --> 00:23:35.200
But it is like, okay, this is what worked for all of this time, but I don't know what is next.
00:23:35.359 --> 00:23:40.880
And I don't feel exciting or does it feel daunting all of it?
00:23:41.039 --> 00:23:45.200
Is it like it doesn't feel exciting?
00:23:45.519 --> 00:23:50.160
It feels like I am a person, so I am a seven, right?
00:23:50.240 --> 00:23:51.200
And I love adventure.
00:23:51.359 --> 00:23:51.599
Yeah.
00:23:51.839 --> 00:23:54.960
But I I have got a good old eight-wing.
00:23:55.039 --> 00:23:57.359
So I also want to know what to expect.
00:23:57.599 --> 00:23:57.759
Right.
00:23:57.920 --> 00:23:59.519
Like, don't don't sucker punch me.
00:23:59.759 --> 00:24:08.559
So I when I get to the theme park, I want the map of the theme park and I want some type of an idea of what we're gonna do.
00:24:08.880 --> 00:24:09.119
The plan.
00:24:09.200 --> 00:24:09.359
Yeah.
00:24:09.440 --> 00:24:09.599
Okay.
00:24:10.400 --> 00:24:12.240
So and Steven's so great nowadays.
00:24:12.319 --> 00:24:14.240
He he bit he maps that whole thing out.
00:24:14.400 --> 00:24:15.599
He buys all these tickets.
00:24:15.759 --> 00:24:17.279
We know where we're going, everything's mapped.
00:24:17.359 --> 00:24:18.400
I don't have to worry about it.
00:24:18.559 --> 00:24:23.599
But I didn't know that about me until like I get frustrated, irritable when we would take the kids.
00:24:23.759 --> 00:24:25.920
And I finally they're like, just give mom the map.
00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:27.599
Everything will be better when she sees the map.
00:24:27.680 --> 00:24:33.119
And I was like, oh my gosh, I so if you think about like I don't have a map.
00:24:33.279 --> 00:24:33.680
That's right.
00:24:33.920 --> 00:24:37.039
In and I'm not in control of anybody but myself.
00:24:37.359 --> 00:24:38.559
Just like anyone else.
00:24:38.720 --> 00:24:38.960
Right.
00:24:39.119 --> 00:24:40.799
You're just you're just being confronted with it.
00:24:40.960 --> 00:24:41.119
Yes.
00:24:41.200 --> 00:24:41.359
Yeah.
00:24:41.599 --> 00:24:43.680
So if you slow that down, okay.
00:24:44.079 --> 00:24:53.839
Like my twins are gonna go off to college, and I'm not I'm not in control of their grades, of their activities, of the decisions that they make, of anything.
00:24:54.160 --> 00:24:55.279
Do I have influence?
00:24:55.519 --> 00:24:55.920
Sure.
00:24:56.160 --> 00:25:04.720
But at the end of the day, you hope to God you did it, you did a good enough job that you instilled some things in them that they're gonna launch and make some wise decisions.
00:25:04.799 --> 00:25:06.720
Um Ashon's about to get married.
00:25:06.880 --> 00:25:13.599
If they are gonna create their family unit, and we are not gonna have say in that.
00:25:13.759 --> 00:25:14.079
Right.
00:25:14.240 --> 00:25:29.519
You know, like we might again have some influence over some things, yeah, but it's we've we have to back up and let them make their family and do make their decisions and how they're gonna spend their money and their time and their energy and effort, all those things.
00:25:29.759 --> 00:25:34.000
Um, and so and my son still lives with us, but he's got agency as well.
00:25:34.079 --> 00:25:37.440
He's 24 and he gets to make the decision on what he's gonna.
00:25:37.759 --> 00:25:42.720
So I think that for somebody that likes to be in control, it's a little scary.
00:25:43.039 --> 00:25:44.799
Yeah, yeah, and likes to know.
00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:56.400
Um, you know, Steven travels all the time, so it's it really is like, okay, it's me and Bailey, the dog, who who again she's got agency too, she's got no control, she does not care what I say.
00:25:56.799 --> 00:25:57.200
Just kidding.
00:25:57.359 --> 00:25:57.920
She doesn't.
00:25:58.000 --> 00:25:59.119
I she wants to go out.
00:25:59.200 --> 00:26:00.480
I open the door for her to go out.
00:26:00.559 --> 00:26:02.480
She stands there and stares at me and doesn't go out.
00:26:02.720 --> 00:26:08.640
Like we we play this game for a lot of times, and you guys can message me and give me ideas on how to fix that problem.
00:26:08.880 --> 00:26:10.960
That's but you know, there's so much of that.
00:26:11.119 --> 00:26:14.400
So you're still in the thick of it with kids in school.
00:26:14.559 --> 00:26:21.039
You still have a fair amount of control to some degree, right?
00:26:21.200 --> 00:26:24.079
Totally, but again, they're all their own little people.
00:26:24.559 --> 00:26:34.240
Yeah, at the end of it, it's like not an illusion, but it's kind of like, yeah, we have control, but also they're gonna they are the people that they are and they're gonna do what they want to do.
00:26:34.559 --> 00:26:40.799
We're launch, we're gonna get like our 17-year-old, like she's a junior and she's starting to drive, and that's terrifying.
00:26:40.960 --> 00:26:41.599
Oh, it's terrifying.
00:26:41.920 --> 00:26:49.200
Totally, I mean, like, no comparison to like all the launching you're doing, but it's kind of one of those things where you're like, okay, just a reminder, I don't have control.
00:26:49.279 --> 00:26:50.880
I hope we've done a good job preparing.
00:26:51.440 --> 00:26:53.279
I hope we will continue to do a good job.
00:26:53.599 --> 00:26:53.839
Right.
00:26:54.079 --> 00:26:55.599
And you gotta make your choices.
00:26:55.759 --> 00:26:56.640
I freaked out the other day.
00:26:56.720 --> 00:27:06.799
I I like went on chat and I was make like make a card for all the things she's supposed to do if she's in like an accident and all the things she's not supposed to do, i.e., okay don't leave the scene.
00:27:06.880 --> 00:27:07.119
Uh-huh.
00:27:07.279 --> 00:27:12.319
Don't, you know, like and not that she didn't know that because I think she was a little peeved with me for doing this.
00:27:12.400 --> 00:27:13.920
I was like, this is more for me than you.
00:27:14.079 --> 00:27:14.319
Yeah.
00:27:14.480 --> 00:27:16.880
But also, it's like your consequences are your own now.
00:27:16.960 --> 00:27:17.279
Right.
00:27:17.599 --> 00:27:21.519
Like if you don't make good choices, I can't, I can only help you so much.
00:27:22.160 --> 00:27:23.599
So yeah, it's hard.
00:27:23.759 --> 00:27:24.960
It is so hard.
00:27:25.119 --> 00:27:25.440
Okay.
00:27:25.599 --> 00:27:27.759
Both of us are in the assertive type.
00:27:27.839 --> 00:27:28.240
Uh-huh.
00:27:28.480 --> 00:27:29.039
Or stance.
00:27:29.119 --> 00:27:29.359
Okay.
00:27:29.440 --> 00:27:31.200
So we both move independently.
00:27:31.359 --> 00:27:37.359
We stand against, we push against all the things, and we want to make life happen happen.
00:27:37.599 --> 00:27:42.720
Um, you know, we have tons of energy about how we're gonna make this happen.
00:27:42.880 --> 00:27:46.799
Um, we both act, we can resist vulnerability.
00:27:46.960 --> 00:27:49.759
I mean, that is definitely the case.
00:27:49.920 --> 00:27:52.480
It's taken me years inside my marriage to be vulnerable.
00:27:52.640 --> 00:28:08.559
So, you know, but when you think about all of the energy that we've got in when uncertainty appears, so you know, I'm I'm sharing about like how I don't love this season.
00:28:08.799 --> 00:28:09.279
Yeah.
00:28:09.599 --> 00:28:22.400
What what do you think about um about this season as far as like transitions and uh what's been one of your biggest like aha moments, do you think?
00:28:22.640 --> 00:28:27.039
Regarding transitions as well for you, yeah, in this season with us specifically.
00:28:27.200 --> 00:28:31.759
Yeah, and you've got we've got a range of of ages with kids too.
00:28:32.079 --> 00:28:42.880
Totally, because well, I have a one who another one who entered high school and uh I started I ended a job in May and I started a new job in August.
00:28:43.440 --> 00:28:47.359
So I had a killer summer, like eight weeks where I was like, no responsibilities.
00:28:47.920 --> 00:28:53.680
Yes, and then August came and it was like amazing, but it's also hard, you know?
00:28:53.839 --> 00:28:56.400
And so on the way over, I was thinking about this.
00:28:56.559 --> 00:29:00.640
Um, even good change is hard, even good change is lost.
00:29:00.880 --> 00:29:04.880
So it doesn't mean like this is I have to kind of like walk myself through this.
00:29:05.039 --> 00:29:05.279
Right.
00:29:05.440 --> 00:29:09.440
Uh at church we're doing this series on ecclesiastes, and it's so good.
00:29:09.680 --> 00:29:10.240
It's so good.
00:29:10.400 --> 00:29:13.519
And I used to, I used to love the promise of Proverbs.
00:29:13.599 --> 00:29:17.759
Like I used to like I I memorized them, I read them so much in college.
00:29:18.079 --> 00:29:31.119
However, there's a lot of gray the older you get in my hair and otherwise, but the but you realize like life has a lot of gray, and that's kind of this where it's like transitions are great, but they're also hard.
00:29:31.200 --> 00:29:33.839
And it doesn't mean you did anything wrong or you made a bad choice.
00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:38.960
And it just it's a reminder of like it's it's all like a vapor.
00:29:39.440 --> 00:29:40.640
So spend it wisely.
00:29:41.039 --> 00:29:51.119
Yes, you know, and so for okay, so for me, there's the uh I I go into do mode, like do all the logistics, control the thing, hack the lunch the night before.
00:29:52.640 --> 00:30:03.279
Um, the emotional toll is a lot harder, like what you just said, where the feeling the the tough feelings, like my so here's I haven't even talked to Derek about this because it feels embarrassing, but whatever.
00:30:03.519 --> 00:30:07.759
We, you know, my they they go to school and I like basically can work from home.
00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:11.039
And so I'm like, oh, this is kind of lonely.
00:30:11.119 --> 00:30:14.640
I could, I could go back to bed and no one would know, right?
00:30:14.880 --> 00:30:15.599
And I haven't.
00:30:15.680 --> 00:30:21.680
I've been like doing walks and blah, blah, blah, because I know in my head, like that would be better for me.
00:30:22.160 --> 00:30:25.039
But it's like this, I don't know.
00:30:25.200 --> 00:30:27.839
It's it's like this thought where you're like, oh, this sad.
00:30:28.000 --> 00:30:30.400
And I kind of want to be like, mm-hmm, whatever.
00:30:30.559 --> 00:30:34.799
But it's like, okay, just not just walk it out, but like you can walk and feel your feelings too.
00:30:35.680 --> 00:30:37.279
Like you can walk and still be sad.
00:30:37.359 --> 00:30:37.599
Yes.
00:30:37.759 --> 00:30:42.480
And not have to be like in your bed eating ice cream, which that has a time and a place too.
00:30:43.440 --> 00:30:47.839
So yeah, and my my tendency is to not slow down enough to do that, I guess.
00:30:48.480 --> 00:30:49.599
So whatever.
00:30:49.839 --> 00:30:52.079
I think you might be feeling feelings right in the moment.
00:30:52.160 --> 00:30:54.400
What I why does this happen?
00:30:54.640 --> 00:30:55.599
Yeah, no, it's true.
00:30:55.680 --> 00:30:57.599
I'm trying well, I'm trying to be better about being present, right?
00:30:57.680 --> 00:30:57.759
Yeah.
00:30:57.920 --> 00:30:59.119
So it's like, okay, yeah.
00:30:59.279 --> 00:31:00.720
And it is, it's it's hard.
00:31:00.960 --> 00:31:03.839
Well, it's it is a launch in a different way.
00:31:04.000 --> 00:31:07.279
So talk about empty nesters, which I like bird launchers.
00:31:07.839 --> 00:31:08.559
That's great, you know.
00:31:08.799 --> 00:31:11.839
Yeah, I don't know that I'm ever gonna be an empty nester, anyways.
00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:16.240
But um, but you you have an empty nester in the day in a different way.
00:31:16.400 --> 00:31:16.640
Yep.
00:31:16.720 --> 00:31:17.119
That's it.
00:31:17.279 --> 00:31:18.720
Because you launched these birds, right?
00:31:18.880 --> 00:31:22.000
So now they're all in school and now your house is quiet.
00:31:22.240 --> 00:31:30.319
And I do think, like, I can't remember, honest to goodness, you guys, like I cannot even remember that long that far back.
00:31:30.400 --> 00:31:32.079
I can't remember what it felt like.
00:31:32.160 --> 00:31:33.680
Yeah, but I was a stay-at-home mom.
00:31:33.759 --> 00:31:35.839
Yeah, so when it's probably a huge change.
00:31:35.920 --> 00:31:41.039
Yeah, when they all went to school and it was like, oh my gosh, what do I do?
00:31:41.279 --> 00:31:42.480
I don't what did I do?
00:31:42.559 --> 00:31:44.000
What did I fill my time with?
00:31:44.400 --> 00:31:45.759
I don't even remember.
00:31:46.000 --> 00:31:50.000
I think I just caught my breath, honestly, from a lot of it.
00:31:50.240 --> 00:31:51.920
Yeah, um, but I don't remember.
00:31:52.160 --> 00:31:56.000
But hearing you talk about the the oh my gosh, the house is quiet.
00:31:56.160 --> 00:31:57.680
I feel like that when they all go out.
00:31:57.839 --> 00:31:58.319
I'm sure.
00:31:58.559 --> 00:32:00.000
And I'm like, what am I gonna do?
00:32:00.240 --> 00:32:00.400
Right.
00:32:00.559 --> 00:32:02.160
And oh my goodness, do I like it?
00:32:02.319 --> 00:32:02.720
Do I not?
00:32:02.880 --> 00:32:05.119
People are like, oh, isn't it so nice to have a quiet house?
00:32:05.200 --> 00:32:08.240
And I'm like, no, I don't really like a quiet house.
00:32:08.559 --> 00:32:09.920
I prefer busy and loud.
00:32:10.240 --> 00:32:16.240
Because we talk about, so we talk about like our childhood, like yeah, right.
00:32:16.720 --> 00:32:26.559
But the reality is that my children now talk about their childhood because our house is their childhood, right?
00:32:26.720 --> 00:32:32.000
And they are two adults and then two, they're just about they're gonna be 18 next month.
00:32:32.319 --> 00:32:34.640
So they're just they're right there.
00:32:35.039 --> 00:32:39.039
The house that they were brought up in, what did we teach them?
00:32:39.279 --> 00:32:41.279
What did we teach them about emotions?
00:32:41.440 --> 00:32:43.359
What did we teach them about failure?
00:32:43.519 --> 00:32:45.599
What did we teach them about transition?
00:32:46.000 --> 00:32:47.279
What did we teach them?
00:32:47.519 --> 00:32:53.839
So we can stay in this like my parents mode, even at 49 and 44.
00:32:54.000 --> 00:32:58.799
Yeah, and we can miss that re discipling, we're doing it right now.
00:32:59.039 --> 00:33:00.079
We are in it, yeah.
00:33:00.160 --> 00:33:02.400
We're in the thick of it with our own.
00:33:02.799 --> 00:33:13.359
And so at some point, yes, and yeah, yes, our our nuclear family impacted us, and the choices that we've made from then on out.
00:33:14.079 --> 00:33:24.319
Even if you're single in your 30s, you are creating your environment and living in the now of what you're creating.
00:33:24.480 --> 00:33:26.559
So, what emotions are you allowing?
00:33:26.799 --> 00:33:27.039
Totally.
00:33:27.519 --> 00:33:34.799
What you know, what feelings, what thoughts, what behaviors, what are you doing and what are yours versus what you've brought into it?
00:33:35.119 --> 00:33:35.759
That's really good.
00:33:35.839 --> 00:33:39.039
I think about it like I'll talk about this with clients a lot, like family culture.
00:33:39.359 --> 00:33:40.799
Like what is the culture you're creating?
00:33:40.880 --> 00:33:42.880
Because either way you're creating it, right?
00:33:42.960 --> 00:33:46.400
It's just a matter of if you think about it and you're intentional about it or not.
00:33:46.559 --> 00:33:46.720
Yeah.
00:33:46.880 --> 00:33:56.160
So, yeah, do we want to be a safe space where people we can talk about our feelings or our failures or awkward things, or we're just gonna not and pretend like everything's great.
00:33:56.240 --> 00:33:57.839
It's all right, you know, or whatever.
00:33:58.000 --> 00:34:00.319
Yeah, I think that's really good to even just be aware of that.
00:34:00.400 --> 00:34:02.079
Like you're either way, you're creating it, right?
00:34:02.240 --> 00:34:04.319
May as well put some thought and shin behind it.
00:34:04.559 --> 00:34:09.760
Yeah, instead of it just being and just happening, and we just did this life, and then we look back on it and we're like, oh, I don't know.
00:34:09.840 --> 00:34:11.920
I was just this is just totally, you know.
00:34:12.159 --> 00:34:15.599
We, I mean, what we do with our clients is work on self-awareness.
00:34:15.760 --> 00:34:35.760
We look that is the the biggest probably takeaway of what we do with Enneagram awareness is raising the consciousness, bringing unconscious to the conscious and trying to help people see that they have agency, that they have a, you know, they they are making choices, and that that, yes, a lot of life happens to us, but what do we do with what happens to us?
00:34:36.239 --> 00:34:38.000
You know, what what do we do in the midst of it?
00:34:38.159 --> 00:34:41.360
And I do think when we look at the Enneagram, there's so many different aspects.
00:34:41.440 --> 00:34:43.199
We talked about the assertive stance.
00:34:43.280 --> 00:34:45.760
Well, there's the withdrawn stance, the fours, fives, and nines.
00:34:46.079 --> 00:34:51.840
They kind of pull back, you know, move away from think and process and how do they want to show up and what does this mean?
00:34:52.000 --> 00:34:58.320
There's a lot of ruminating that happens um inside of that personality, you know, those three personality types.
00:34:58.400 --> 00:35:04.480
And then you've got the ones, the twos, and the sixes, and they move towards, I mean, yeah, they move towards.
00:35:04.719 --> 00:35:06.000
They move towards down their tour.
00:35:06.400 --> 00:35:11.199
Yeah, they move towards people and in trying to figure out what am I supposed to do?
00:35:11.280 --> 00:35:13.599
What is right, what do you expect from me?
00:35:13.760 --> 00:35:16.719
What you know, what you know, what am I supposed to do?
00:35:17.280 --> 00:35:23.840
And so when you think about that, regardless of the stance that you're in, I want you to to take notice of what you do.
00:35:24.000 --> 00:35:25.199
What is your dance?
00:35:25.360 --> 00:35:26.239
Are you moving away?
00:35:26.400 --> 00:35:29.360
Are you standing independently and pushing from that assertive stance?
00:35:29.519 --> 00:35:31.199
Do you move towards trying to figure out?
00:35:31.360 --> 00:35:31.599
Okay.
00:35:32.000 --> 00:35:33.760
So own inside of that.
00:35:33.920 --> 00:35:36.079
And then I want to add another layer.
00:35:36.239 --> 00:35:36.559
Okay.
00:35:36.639 --> 00:35:38.239
This does feel like a lot.
00:35:38.480 --> 00:35:39.760
It can it can get a little tricky.
00:35:39.840 --> 00:35:43.199
This is where having someone like us to process is helpful.
00:35:43.440 --> 00:35:43.679
Yeah.
00:35:43.760 --> 00:35:46.880
So this can feel like, oh my gosh, you're throwing so much at us today.
00:35:47.360 --> 00:35:50.159
Yes, but in layers, okay.
00:35:50.639 --> 00:35:54.000
So when we look at this, there's subtypes within the Enneagram.
00:35:54.079 --> 00:35:59.760
There's the self-preservation, the social, and then the one-to-one or the sexual subtype, which is about chemistry and connection.
00:36:00.079 --> 00:36:00.320
Okay.
00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:04.159
Within that, we have these different aspects of personality.
00:36:04.320 --> 00:36:07.119
That's why the the types can look so different.
00:36:07.280 --> 00:36:13.679
You know, you can have a seven that looks so different because they're in one of these other stances, or not stances, subtypes.
00:36:14.000 --> 00:36:14.159
Yeah.
00:36:14.400 --> 00:36:23.280
And so if you are in more of a self-preservation, which today at the at this stage of life, I would be more self-preservation.
00:36:23.440 --> 00:36:26.719
The younger me definitely leaned more one-to-one.
00:36:27.119 --> 00:36:32.480
Um, and at times those two parts of my personality like are next to each other.
00:36:32.639 --> 00:36:35.280
They sit so close to each other, I can't pull them apart.
00:36:35.519 --> 00:36:38.000
And I do at times uh see the social.
00:36:38.400 --> 00:36:47.679
Like the social is a lot of the justice work that I've done, a lot of the inner city work that I've done, a lot of the the um missions, like things like that, those parts of that, right?
00:36:48.079 --> 00:36:48.719
Absolutely.
00:36:49.039 --> 00:36:54.960
But if I look at the self-preservation, I'm gonna see security and resources.
00:36:55.119 --> 00:36:59.599
Um, I'm gonna care about home, practical needs, physical well-being.
00:36:59.840 --> 00:37:01.760
You know, are we going to be okay?
00:37:01.920 --> 00:37:02.960
Are we gonna be okay?
00:37:03.119 --> 00:37:06.480
And I definitely see that part of my personality.
00:37:06.639 --> 00:37:07.840
What about you as an age?
00:37:08.079 --> 00:37:08.320
Yeah.
00:37:08.400 --> 00:37:10.000
So similar journey.
00:37:10.239 --> 00:37:13.920
I I was a very um one-to-one.
00:37:14.079 --> 00:37:18.320
I don't want to be like, I was a very sexual, but I because that sounds weird.
00:37:18.480 --> 00:37:19.039
It does, right?
00:37:19.440 --> 00:37:19.679
It does.
00:37:19.840 --> 00:37:20.559
I wish they couldn't.
00:37:20.800 --> 00:37:21.039
I know.
00:37:21.360 --> 00:37:24.960
I wish whatever, but the intensity, I loved it.
00:37:25.039 --> 00:37:33.280
The attract, like I remember when I started dating my husband, and I was just like the intensity and the like, oh, he loves like it was like a drug.
00:37:33.360 --> 00:37:34.639
Like, I don't know another way to put it.
00:37:34.800 --> 00:37:36.400
Like it felt so good.
00:37:36.719 --> 00:37:43.760
And chemistry was everything, connection is everything, but it's not with everyone, it's only with a few people that really matter.
00:37:43.920 --> 00:37:44.159
Right.
00:37:44.239 --> 00:37:49.199
It was I would stir up stuff just to get worked up and get him worked up.
00:37:49.360 --> 00:37:51.039
Um, I don't do that anymore.
00:37:51.199 --> 00:37:52.480
I'm happy to report.
00:37:52.719 --> 00:37:54.800
I am old and tired and healed.
00:37:54.960 --> 00:37:56.880
Well, I'm just kidding, I'm healing.
00:37:57.119 --> 00:38:01.199
But um now I function a lot more like a social aid.
00:38:01.360 --> 00:38:03.519
Okay, talk about the social, yeah.
00:38:03.760 --> 00:38:05.679
So for well, and to me it makes sense.
00:38:05.760 --> 00:38:06.880
Like I'm a mom of four.
00:38:07.199 --> 00:38:10.000
Like there's a there's a lot of like the belonging piece.
00:38:10.079 --> 00:38:12.159
The like I'm much more responsible now.
00:38:12.800 --> 00:38:15.840
I think of a group mentality much more.
00:38:16.079 --> 00:38:21.280
I probably need to have more in the self-preservation because I'm like, it's fine, everything's fine.
00:38:21.360 --> 00:38:23.440
Don't worry about money or don't worry about this.
00:38:23.519 --> 00:38:25.760
Yeah, you know, and my husband's like, could you help me out here?
00:38:26.079 --> 00:38:26.880
That's so funny.
00:38:26.960 --> 00:38:27.199
Yeah.
00:38:27.599 --> 00:38:29.599
But I I don't know.
00:38:29.760 --> 00:38:32.400
I think it's it's that's where I tend to operate.
00:38:32.480 --> 00:38:41.039
And I think for me, it feels like that more tender space too, which which also makes sense because AIDS moved to two in health.
00:38:41.519 --> 00:38:47.519
But it's it's more of that maternal base that I think defines a lot of this season.
00:38:47.679 --> 00:38:48.000
Yeah.
00:38:48.159 --> 00:38:50.400
So yeah, that's kind of my journey.
00:38:50.559 --> 00:38:57.039
And I think, I mean, you'd probably say this too, between time and healing and becoming aware of those patterns that you're like, oh, this isn't great.
00:38:57.119 --> 00:39:01.360
This is a little bit destructive or this is like driving the other person crazy.
00:39:01.440 --> 00:39:01.599
Right.
00:39:01.760 --> 00:39:02.880
And is exhausting.
00:39:03.039 --> 00:39:08.000
So well, yeah, I I do think too, where we find security.
00:39:08.159 --> 00:39:10.800
So subtypes have to do with safety and security.
00:39:10.960 --> 00:39:16.320
Where do we find how do we get our needs met in the safety security part of our life?
00:39:16.480 --> 00:39:18.480
Like, how do I know I'm gonna get what I need?
00:39:18.719 --> 00:39:21.599
And then then that's where I'm gonna put my energy towards.
00:39:21.760 --> 00:39:23.679
So reaching for something, reaching for something.
00:39:24.000 --> 00:39:24.159
Yeah.
00:39:24.320 --> 00:39:32.400
So for you in that social, how do I know I'm gonna get my my needs met, keep myself safe, you know, get love, all those things.
00:39:32.559 --> 00:39:38.000
So that belonging, that community, that family, um, that responsibility, the role.
00:39:38.480 --> 00:39:41.599
Um, I'm gonna administrate our life, you know, that sort of thing.
00:39:41.760 --> 00:39:42.000
Right.
00:39:42.239 --> 00:39:46.000
And so that that had a lot, that's where you kind of move.
00:39:46.480 --> 00:39:53.920
For me, it had a lot to do with like security and resource resources and making sure everybody had their needs met.
00:39:54.079 --> 00:39:59.519
Like that for me as a seven, that was so loud in what I needed.
00:40:00.159 --> 00:40:06.719
Um, and my husband is he's a workaholic, and then there's I we can I don't think we have to hide that.
00:40:06.800 --> 00:40:08.400
So like it is what it is, right?
00:40:08.480 --> 00:40:10.559
So it wasn't moving towards necessarily.
00:40:10.639 --> 00:40:17.440
And so when I first married him, you guys, we we dated long distance for less than nine months.
00:40:17.599 --> 00:40:21.599
He proposed three months, we got married shortly after you guys.
00:40:21.679 --> 00:40:24.480
It was like, I would, I'm like, why did my parents let me do this?
00:40:24.559 --> 00:40:28.000
But look at we made it, but I can they probably couldn't have stopped you anyway.
00:40:28.239 --> 00:40:28.800
I don't think so.
00:40:28.880 --> 00:40:34.400
No, because you look back and you're like, I'm a seven and he's a three, and we stand independently, push against, do whatever we want.
00:40:35.360 --> 00:40:36.000
Yes, thank you so much.
00:40:36.239 --> 00:40:36.880
Yes, yes.
00:40:37.039 --> 00:40:41.039
And we both, he and I both have a good amount of that one-to-one.
00:40:41.440 --> 00:40:50.639
And so, you know, early on, that intensity, that attraction, energy, connection, chemistry, what feels alive, like all of this, right?
00:40:50.719 --> 00:40:56.320
So that in the Enneagram 7, there's a lot of rose colored glasses, like we're just gonna figure it out on the fly, you know?
00:40:56.480 --> 00:40:56.639
Right.
00:40:56.800 --> 00:40:58.400
Like, don't worry about it, it'll be great.
00:40:58.480 --> 00:41:00.079
Yeah, which I don't, you guys.
00:41:00.239 --> 00:41:02.400
I want the map and I want to know where I'm going today.
00:41:02.480 --> 00:41:04.480
So I'm not trying to figure things out on the fly.
00:41:04.639 --> 00:41:07.760
Um, but you know, where is the energy now?
00:41:07.920 --> 00:41:10.159
Has a lot to do with that that one-to-one.
00:41:10.559 --> 00:41:11.679
Like, where is the energy?
00:41:11.840 --> 00:41:18.559
So let's slow it down just for a minute for you guys to kind of take in because that was a lot of information.
00:41:18.719 --> 00:41:22.000
And this is just a snapshot of subtypes, okay?
00:41:22.159 --> 00:41:24.000
We both write about this on social media.
00:41:24.159 --> 00:41:27.360
You guys can find us there on socials looking about subtypes.
00:41:27.599 --> 00:41:32.800
The month of September, I'm focusing on subtypes on my social media, so you'll you'll you should get kind of a deep dive in it.
00:41:32.960 --> 00:41:38.960
Beatrice Chestnut is probably one of my favorite authors on subtypes, and she's got a new book out right now.
00:41:39.119 --> 00:41:43.920
Um, the with its 27 subtypes, so the complete Enneogram.
00:41:44.079 --> 00:41:51.920
Um, so that is a you know a great resource if this is something that you're like, I I want to know more about this, but slowing it down.
00:41:52.480 --> 00:41:58.400
If you are functioning from, let's start with that self-preservation, are we going to be okay?
00:41:58.639 --> 00:41:58.880
Okay.
00:41:59.039 --> 00:42:02.800
If that is kind of what you are like, are we going to be okay?
00:42:03.039 --> 00:42:04.320
Am I going to be okay?
00:42:04.880 --> 00:42:11.599
I want you to think about am I focusing on security and resources and practical needs and physical well-being?
00:42:11.760 --> 00:42:14.800
Is that really important to me, regardless of your personality type?
00:42:15.199 --> 00:42:15.519
Okay.
00:42:15.679 --> 00:42:18.719
If that is, then that that is something for you to pay attention to.
00:42:18.880 --> 00:42:21.360
Like, I care about knowing I'm going to be okay.
00:42:21.679 --> 00:42:24.000
And so, and none of these are wrong.
00:42:24.159 --> 00:42:24.320
Nope.
00:42:24.480 --> 00:42:25.920
None is better than the other.
00:42:26.159 --> 00:42:26.960
It's just different.
00:42:27.039 --> 00:42:28.559
It's different shades of color.
00:42:28.719 --> 00:42:28.960
Yeah.
00:42:29.119 --> 00:42:32.880
So and it's where our energy and and efforts are going to go towards.
00:42:33.280 --> 00:42:35.280
So it's worth paying attention to and knowing.
00:42:35.519 --> 00:42:35.760
Yes.
00:42:35.920 --> 00:42:39.519
And so if you look at the social, where do I fit now?
00:42:39.760 --> 00:42:40.079
Yeah.
00:42:40.239 --> 00:42:40.559
Okay.
00:42:40.960 --> 00:42:46.079
So, and I've got Ashland just she she finished college or finished it.
00:42:46.159 --> 00:42:49.280
She's finished, she's got a couple classes left, but um, but she moved home.
00:42:49.360 --> 00:42:50.639
So she's finished it online.
00:42:50.880 --> 00:42:54.719
But she knew where she fit in college, watching her try to fit now.
00:42:55.199 --> 00:42:57.199
She's a social six.
00:42:57.360 --> 00:43:02.639
So trying to navigate life and where do I that young adult yes?
00:43:02.719 --> 00:43:03.920
And sixes I love.
00:43:04.159 --> 00:43:06.239
I mean, yeah, that's like a really big deal.
00:43:06.719 --> 00:43:08.719
So, watching that, where do I fit now?
00:43:08.880 --> 00:43:13.360
So if that feels, you know, too, because we can think about like, oh, that's such a two statement.
00:43:13.440 --> 00:43:14.239
No, no, no, no.
00:43:14.320 --> 00:43:16.480
This is a social statement.
00:43:16.639 --> 00:43:17.039
Exactly.
00:43:17.360 --> 00:43:18.320
Where do I fit now?
00:43:18.480 --> 00:43:19.519
That's what you're focusing on.
00:43:19.599 --> 00:43:20.559
Pay attention to that.
00:43:20.639 --> 00:43:25.840
That community matters, people matter, relationships matter, and that's what you're going to move towards.
00:43:25.920 --> 00:43:27.039
That's what you're looking for.
00:43:27.199 --> 00:43:29.599
There's nothing wrong with you if you find yourself in that.
00:43:29.760 --> 00:43:31.280
It's like, what do you need in that?
00:43:31.519 --> 00:43:35.039
And then that one-to-one, where is the energy?
00:43:35.280 --> 00:43:36.559
Where does the energy flow?
00:43:36.719 --> 00:43:37.760
Where is the energy?
00:43:38.000 --> 00:43:39.280
Like, where is the energy now?
00:43:39.360 --> 00:43:40.800
How do I stir up energy?
00:43:40.960 --> 00:43:42.719
So, yeah, talk about that piece.
00:43:42.960 --> 00:43:44.079
I can talk about sure.
00:43:44.239 --> 00:43:51.599
And in I think what might be interesting is if you're realizing, oh, I didn't think other people didn't feel this way or think this way.
00:43:52.079 --> 00:43:59.760
You know, for because for me, it's um, and for most people who had that or have this leaning, this what they're grasping.
00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:03.679
Grabbing for essentially it is about connection, chemistry, attraction.
00:44:03.840 --> 00:44:11.360
And when I say attraction, to be clear, it's not sexual, it's just a like a magic, like I'm drawn to people.
00:44:11.679 --> 00:44:12.800
And it can be sexual.
00:44:13.199 --> 00:44:19.599
So I think it probably depends on the health scale too, on how loud that part is.
00:44:19.679 --> 00:44:20.239
That's fair.
00:44:20.480 --> 00:44:31.360
Um, and maybe even if you have studied attachment theory at all, that anxious attachment might even feel more like in that like totally energy.
00:44:31.519 --> 00:44:31.679
Yeah.
00:44:31.760 --> 00:44:31.920
Yeah.
00:44:32.239 --> 00:44:32.480
Yeah.
00:44:32.719 --> 00:44:33.440
So yeah.
00:44:33.679 --> 00:44:42.079
So yeah, so it can be sexual, but it's I think there's maybe a hesitancy, especially for women, to say that because it's like for guys, maybe they're like, yeah, big dog.
00:44:42.320 --> 00:44:52.480
You know, but like for a woman to be like, oh yeah, emosexual, whatever, that can feel weird, but it's it's really just think of it like chemistry, think of it close, deep relationships.
00:44:53.280 --> 00:44:55.920
And yeah, I think hopefully that's helpful.
00:44:56.239 --> 00:45:00.239
You know, or throughout September, are you gonna talk about counter types ever?
00:45:00.559 --> 00:45:00.719
Yep.
00:45:00.880 --> 00:45:04.079
I was gonna say, because that's a whole that adds another layer as well, right?
00:45:04.239 --> 00:45:06.880
That's really interesting and exciting and how amazing, right?
00:45:06.960 --> 00:45:10.639
You know, Beatrice Chestnut, like a new book and all that fun stuff.
00:45:10.800 --> 00:45:11.440
That'll be so great.
00:45:11.679 --> 00:45:19.599
Yes, yes, she'll be on the podcast um later in the month of September too, talking about um probably counter legend.
00:45:19.840 --> 00:45:20.639
Yeah, amazing.
00:45:20.960 --> 00:45:21.519
She's brilliant.
00:45:21.679 --> 00:45:23.519
So I'm excited to have her as a guest.
00:45:23.679 --> 00:45:26.400
Um, but that will be fun to talk about subtypes.
00:45:26.480 --> 00:45:32.079
I think it's just the the depth of information that the Enneagram can give us about self.
00:45:32.320 --> 00:45:36.559
So make sure that when you're using this tool, that you're using it as a mirror.
00:45:36.639 --> 00:45:36.880
Okay.
00:45:37.280 --> 00:45:38.800
Always mirror first.
00:45:38.960 --> 00:45:44.159
Yes, that we are looking at ourselves, we're getting curious around patterns, we're getting curious around what we're noticing.
00:45:44.400 --> 00:45:48.320
Self-awareness is is where we find the ability to begin to change.
00:45:48.559 --> 00:45:52.960
So when we know, like when you can when you acknowledge it, you can change it.
00:45:53.199 --> 00:46:01.039
So what we keep in the you know, in the blind spots or the below the surface, that is not changeable.
00:46:01.199 --> 00:46:04.639
Like we might do some behavior modification because somebody told us we had to.
00:46:04.960 --> 00:46:15.199
But as far as actual change, transformation, it happens at a conscious level where you get to make a decision to change and you get to pivot.
00:46:15.519 --> 00:46:22.400
Um, now let's just for just a quick second talk about familiar patterns because we we drift back to what's familiar.
00:46:22.559 --> 00:46:27.360
So we can be moving towards change and then find ourselves drifting back.
00:46:27.920 --> 00:46:28.880
Just be mindful.
00:46:28.960 --> 00:46:31.519
The drift back doesn't mean you start back at square one.
00:46:31.679 --> 00:46:32.719
It's part, it's part of the problem.
00:46:32.960 --> 00:46:33.519
It's messy.
00:46:33.679 --> 00:46:34.480
It is so messy.
00:46:34.639 --> 00:46:36.079
It's messy, like it's gonna happen.
00:46:36.159 --> 00:46:42.480
You know, we think growth is like up and to the right, and it's kind of like loop dealers sometimes where it's like, oh, here I am again.
00:46:42.559 --> 00:46:44.400
And that's the discouraging, but that's part of the problem.
00:46:45.440 --> 00:46:46.079
It is part of it.
00:46:46.400 --> 00:46:50.320
Don't you don't need to get sucked back into old ways of thinking or acting.
00:46:50.480 --> 00:46:51.519
Yeah, but that's part of it.
00:46:51.679 --> 00:46:51.920
Right.
00:46:52.000 --> 00:46:56.639
It is, and just be so mindful that you're not starting at the beginning again.
00:46:57.119 --> 00:46:59.760
Um, I used to, you know, when I would work out, I'd have a plan.
00:46:59.840 --> 00:47:02.320
And if I missed a day, I'd be like, oh, back to the beginning.
00:47:02.639 --> 00:47:07.440
And I mean, I must have stayed on that week plan forever because I never could finish the week.
00:47:07.599 --> 00:47:09.039
So I don't do that to myself anymore.
00:47:09.119 --> 00:47:10.000
I pick up where I left.
00:47:10.480 --> 00:47:11.360
That's not compassionate.
00:47:11.519 --> 00:47:14.880
No, I pick up where I left off and I keep moving forward.
00:47:15.199 --> 00:47:19.199
Small little steps eventually make big change.
00:47:19.360 --> 00:47:23.360
And so, um, so Courtney, thank you so much for being here and this comment.
00:47:23.840 --> 00:47:26.159
Yes, I love that we get to be back together.
00:47:26.960 --> 00:47:31.119
I can't tell you how many times we're like, we're gonna record, and then just life happened.
00:47:32.079 --> 00:47:32.480
Right.
00:47:32.639 --> 00:47:36.480
And I was not consistent this summer with podcasting, so sorry about that.
00:47:36.559 --> 00:47:39.840
But life lifed, and that's that's all I can say.
00:47:40.159 --> 00:47:44.639
And I had to be flexible and kind to myself in the midst of it.
00:47:44.800 --> 00:47:46.880
And I felt every bit of it though.
00:47:46.960 --> 00:47:47.760
I did, man.
00:47:48.079 --> 00:48:03.199
Um, so but I think that I hope that you take some great things away from this conversation today about transitions and life and just curiosity around yourself, being kind to yourself, um, as you are bumping into different parts of yourself.
00:48:03.280 --> 00:48:09.360
So the Enneagram gives us language for noticing what we instinctively do when life changes.
00:48:09.679 --> 00:48:22.000
And our our type, our subtypes, and even our stress movements, it all can help us recognize when we're trying to find security, avoid vulnerability, regain control, and move away from something that feels uncomfortable.
00:48:22.239 --> 00:48:24.480
But none of those patterns mean that we're failing.
00:48:24.639 --> 00:48:26.000
It's just information.
00:48:26.559 --> 00:48:30.559
They give us a chance to stop and ask, what is happening in me right now?
00:48:30.719 --> 00:48:32.960
Um, what needs attention?
00:48:33.199 --> 00:48:34.320
I think that's such a huge one.
00:48:34.639 --> 00:48:35.519
What needs attention?
00:48:35.599 --> 00:48:37.199
You know, that's an indicator light.
00:48:37.440 --> 00:48:41.280
Um, and it what is my automatic response to what I'm doing?
00:48:41.360 --> 00:48:43.199
You know, what do I actually need right now?
00:48:43.280 --> 00:48:48.639
Um, so because the Enneagram isn't putting you in a box, it's helping you see the box you've put yourself in.
00:48:48.800 --> 00:49:03.519
We'd love for you to just remain curious and open and just to continue, continue the conversation with yourself, whether that's through journaling, whether that's through getting a coach, you know, you guys can reach out to us on social media if you guys are interested in that.
00:49:03.760 --> 00:49:08.079
Um just staying curious about your patterns.
00:49:08.239 --> 00:49:16.320
Um, so wherever you find yourself in your story right now, remember you don't have to rush through one chapter just because another one is beginning.
00:49:16.559 --> 00:49:20.000
And so I will see you next time on the Enneagram JB.
00:49:21.119 --> 00:49:22.960
Thank you for joining us today.
00:49:23.199 --> 00:49:29.760
Join us next time as we continue our conversation about the Enneagram and what it means for your relationships.
00:49:30.000 --> 00:49:34.800
Don't forget to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts so you don't miss a single episode.
00:49:35.039 --> 00:49:37.760
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00:49:38.000 --> 00:49:40.320
Your kind words help others find the show.
00:49:40.559 --> 00:49:47.840
For more great Ennegram content, resources, and individual coaching, you can visit EnneagramwithJB.com.
00:49:48.000 --> 00:49:50.800
We'll see you next time on Enneagram with JB.