Rising After Setbacks | LIMITLESS Leaders Edition: S20 Ep105

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Hello and welcome to the Limitless Leaders Podcast Series, brought to you by Allergan Aesthetics, a proud partner of the American Society of Plastic Surgeons.
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I am Nicole Moed Nassar, Senior Vice President of AB and president of Global Allergan Aesthetics.
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Limitless was developed to highlight the achievements of women plastic surgeons while also providing education, mentorship, and empowerment.
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The Limitless Initiative has evolved into a platform for storytelling and idea sharing where accomplished women plastic surgeons offer insight and encouragement to future and existing women plastic surgeons.
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This season, the series will explore topics such as building resilience through life's challenges, exploring non-traditional leadership opportunities, navigating conflict resolution, and more themes specific to women plastic surgeons.
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Please enjoy this podcast episode and the entire Limitless YouTube channel for more content that explores what it means to be limitless and how Allergan Aesthetics supports women plastic surgeons.
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Welcome to the Limitless Leaders Podcast Series, brought to you by ASPS, the Aesthetic Society, and the American Hernia Society, with the generous support of Allergan Aesthetics.
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I'm Napura Gangopadai, a pediatric plastic surgeon and craniofacial surgeon in Chicago, and the Limitless Leaders Chair.
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Join us for the Limitless Leaders Podcast, where we dive into the stories of extraordinary women making a significant impact in our field, breaking gender barriers, and inspiring the next generation of leaders.
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Hi everyone, here listening to the Limitless Leaders Podcast series, brought to you by ASPS with the generous support of Allergan Aesthetics.
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I'm Dr.
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Ann Pellet, and I'm your host for today's episode.
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I'm excited to be joined by Dr.
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Kat Gallis and Dr.
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Janelle Sousa to discuss Rising After Setbacks, Building Resilience Through Complications and Life Challenges.
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Welcome.
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So I would love Dr.
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Gallus and Dr.
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Sousa to hear a little bit more about your background, sort of what you're doing these days, your role in plastic surgery, and then maybe a brief introduction to what you are thinking about as it relates to this topic of resilience and setbacks, and then we'll jump in further.
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So, um, Dr.
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Gallus, can we start with you?
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Sure.
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Um, yeah, thank you so much for having me on this podcast.
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Uh, I'm uh really excited to be talking about this topic.
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It's important.
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I am in private practice in San Diego.
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I'm the um founder of Restore SD Plastic Surgery.
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I've been in practice in this setting for eight years.
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And prior to that, I was active duty in the Navy for 12 years as a plastic surgeon.
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Um and I think uh so I've like many of us have had different career transitions and different life transitions, and those all um can seem daunting at the time, but end up building, I think, resilience over time.
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And I hope we're gonna talk more about that today.
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Perfect.
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Thank you, Dr.
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Sousa.
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Um, I am in private practice in Spokane, Washington.
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Um, I'm part of a large group, five microsurgeons.
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Um and um I my background is I I worked in academics for several years at University of Washington, and then um have now been here in Spokane for about seven years.
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Um and my practice is mostly um breast reconstruction and microsurgery.
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Um and yeah, I'm just um really excited to be here and talk about um some of the difficult things that I've gone through as relates to um practice in personal life.
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Perfect.
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Well, thank you both.
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I really appreciate your joining us today.
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I appreciate your openness.
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And I know sometimes these can be challenging things to talk about, but I think there's so much that we learn from each other and hearing about this.
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Um, just as a brief introduction, I am in private practice in San Francisco.
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I'm both a breast oncologic and a reconstructive surgeon, and then do a little cosmetics as well.
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Um, and this is a topic that is very near and dear to my heart just because I've gone through myself.
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Uh, actually at this point, two breast cancer diagnoses in the 10 years that I've been in private practice and all of the different surgeries and treatments that have gone with that.
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And so um I love being able to engage in the space and again kind of share, share what we've been through as a way of helping others and connect around it.
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So I would love to start, Dr.
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Sousa, with you.
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I know you have also had the experience of being on the other side of the scalpel, if you will.
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And so maybe you could tell everyone a little bit about the story that you know we we know but hear more about um health challenges, if you will, that you've been through.
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And we could start with that.
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Yeah, sure.
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So um, so I am I've been a totally healthy person my whole life, right?
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Um, and uh about two and a half years ago, um, out of the blue, I um had a little sore spot on the elbow of my right arm, and within 24 hours um had developed necrotizing soft tissue infection.
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And um about I don't know, six or seven debris months later, I had lost 80% of the skin, shoulder to wrist on my right dominant arm.
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Um, not to mention this happened over Christmas.
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Uh I I went into the hospital on December 23rd and uh ended up being there all through Christmas.
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Um I um you guys know well necrotizing soft tissue infection and the um potential outcomes that often come with that disease.
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So um there were discussions about amputating my arm, there I was very sick.
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Um there were, you know, we're of course we're talking about would I ever go home again?
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Um and it was absolutely um devastating.
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Um and it's been two and a half years, and obviously I still feel that sometimes.
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Um and the um what came of it was amazing.
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Okay, so obviously I survived.
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I didn't lose my arm.
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Um and um I ended up having a dozen more surgeries to reconstruct it.
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And uh what was really um another like amazing but also difficult part of it was um my own partners, my the own microsurgeons that I work with did my reconstruction.
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So um I now have completely full function of my arm and um I was back in the operating room about three months later um and have a perfect and wonderful and full life now.
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Um so you know there's a lot to there's a lot of a lot to unpack there, right?
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But it's a a really um scary story, but a really beautiful story where um, you know, you suddenly are on the other side and um you know all the fears and uncertainty and what's the future gonna hold, all that sitting right in front of you.
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Janelle, thank you so much for sharing that and the way you did.
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And I love so much what you said about kind of the beautiful piece of it.
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And I've also felt that personally, having gone through my breast cancer diagnosis and journey too.
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Um, so much to talk about, as you said.
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And I guess one of the things I would love if you feel comfortable, just because many of us will experience that being very healthy and then having something come up suddenly in our health in some way.
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And if that is a thing that you feel comfortable talking about, like what it was like uh in those early moments and having those conversations with your partners about what was next, and again, navigating that as a surgeon who, in some ways, kind of knew too much, if you will, about what yeah.
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Well, well, you know, okay, also typical surgeon.
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All right, the the backstory.
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Um I had not been feeling well for about a week before, and I had had some fevers and um was taking Tylenol and ibuprofen, but kind of pushing through because it was Christmas and family was in town, and you know, I have three little kids.
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At the time, my kids were um, let's see, it would have been eight, five, and nine months old.
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And so, you know, I was just kind of pushing through, taking Tylenol.
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And then like I said, I I didn't have I don't have diabetes.
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I don't use an IV drugs.
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I um I and I didn't have any wounds.
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I had perfect skin, and I just had this little sore spot on my elbow, and I kind of ignored it.
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I thought maybe I had an elecriton bursitis or something, and um I called, you know, my orthopedic surgeon friend who was on call, and he's like, Yeah, why don't you take some antibiotics?
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You know, these can take a while to calm down if this is the case.
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Um, the next day it was worse.
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So I called my friend who was also on call that next day, and she she said, you know, why don't you why don't you come into the ER and just like let me look at it?
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Um and so we do what surgeons do.
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I didn't really go to the ER, but I showed up at the hospital and she looked at me in the hallway and um her face dropped, and she, you know, my arm at that point was swollen from the shoulder to the wrist, but I wasn't NSTI was not even on my radar of potential things that would ever happen in my world, you know.
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And um, and she said, No, I'm gonna admit you, and um and you know, you need to stay here.
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And I started, you know, I'm all upset because it's Christmas.
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She left, she went and called one of her colleagues because she said, I need to make sure I'm thinking clearly about this.
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I um here's one of our friends, right, and another surgeon, and I'm worried about this arm.
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And he said, Go, you take her to the OR right now.
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And I think um those two in that moment, they they were encountering a lot of that same uncertainty, right?
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Like, am I making the right decisions?
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Um, you know, am I overthinking it, underthinking it, you know, all of that doubt that we have.
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But I think they saved my arm.
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Um, so like that night I ended up in the OR and I had to read months every 12 hours until they got ahead of it.
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Um and then I was just so sick, you know, um, and it took me quite a while to recover medically um before I was ready for reconstruction.
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But um, through all this time, my my four partners were obviously following along.
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Um, I have a really um vivid memory of laying in bed and having Daken's wet to dry dressings packed into my arm by one of my partners who I've known for I knew since residency.
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And I said to him, I said, Never in my life did I think you would be doing my wet to dry dressing on my NSTI.
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Um just surreal, you know, totally surreal.
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Um the the part of um you know planning the reconstruction was was tricky, right?
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And I we I thought about do I stay here um and do this with my partners or do I go somewhere else?
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And you know, one of the big parts I thought about is like what burden am I putting on them?
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You know, um are they going to be able to um make the choices, do the hard thing, um and you know, uh how will this affect us going forward?
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Um and I have uh four absolutely incredible partners and um they in the end they um you know they were very willing to do it and I decided to stay here rather than go, you know, across the state to the university or whatever, because I was like, these people know me and these people love me, like they will fight for me.
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And um, and they did.
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And um but you know, the even the planning, so down to the details of what vascular pedicle and were we gonna use a vein loop or a jump graft or how are we gonna, you know, line this thing up, um, who was going to do the nerve reconstruction and who was gonna do you know which components of it.
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I had to choose one of my partners to be the lead surgeon because microsurgery by committee is not a good idea.
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Um, all of these components were just so tricky, especially as I was, you know, sick.
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Um but uh yeah, it really weird, really weird to be on the outside.
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Yeah.
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I like I know every bit of all of those things, having again had to pick a surgical team to go through things.
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But I think one of the things you were saying that really struck me was I I had a moment where I was like, oh, that's such a surgeon mom comment, which is the the combination of being a person that you know cares so much about other people's feelings, and you're trying to think about like what's fair to your partners when you're in this really sick situation, and also obviously having young children at home.
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And I I thought maybe Dr.
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Gallus, we'd flip over to you for a sec, just because I know a little bit about um your story and knowing what it's like having young children and figuring out uh how to obviously deal with something that is major and life-changing too, and wondered if maybe we'd switch gears for a second, have you talk a little bit about your deployment and again kind of what that was like, impact on your family and go from there?
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Um sure.
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Yeah, I understand uh Janelle's perspective of like kind of probably up until that last minute when your friend was like, you need to get admitted.
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Like, did you deep, I mean, I don't know, did you deep down know something was up or were you and pushed it away, or were you No, not really.
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I I I was like, oh, this sucks.
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I've got some kind of infection that would happen.
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Yeah.
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I remember um so I deployed to Afghanistan um when my middle daughter was 12 months old, and then my uh oldest daughter was like two and a half.
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So, but my my husband is active duty and a surgeon, and he had already deployed to Afghanistan.
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He came back and about a year later I went.
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And then, of course, then he then I came back and then uh was pregnant, and then he left again when my third child was born.
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So we went back and forth multiple times, but I had a health scare when I was at the end of his first deployment, so I had two under two and wasn't feeling well, and I ended up getting a weird virus that wasn't anywhere near as dramatic as uh either of the health crises you guys have been through.
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But I remember trying to figure out what was going on, and so I went to go sort of curbsided the internist.
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Like, I just don't feel good.
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He drew a bunch of labs, and I went or I ran over to the lab at the hospital, and then ran back over to his office in the afternoon.
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And it was funny because I'd seen my labs and they didn't make sense to me.
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I had like a weird myositis going on.
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I was like in rhabdo or something, and my white count was like two, and he's like, I already don't worry about it, I already looked, you don't have leukemia.
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And I was like, What?
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What?
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You know, you're like so you you just you can't treat yourself, and that's the reason.
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Like that was not in my differential, and luckily that's not what I had.
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I was just really immunosuppressed.
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And again, I also like was like, wait, what?
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I have who's gonna take care of my kids?
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I have cases to do, you know, all of those things.
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And in some ways, having been on both ends of the deployment, um, being both deployed and the one home while someone else is deployed.
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I honestly thought in some respects, being deployed was less difficult because you don't have the day-to-day of like getting through stuff.
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Like you have one job, it's to sit in the middle of nowhere, take whatever trauma comes in, and that's it.
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That's literally all you have to do.
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There's no laundry to do, somebody picks up your dirty, you know, uniform and drops it back off.
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Um, there's no cooking to do because you just eat what they provide for you, or unless you get like a care package.
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And, you know, you don't have to make plans for anything because there's either the gym or, you know, whatever books you brought along or videotapes you're gonna watch.
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There's really no um the mental gymnastics of a day in the life.
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Like even as we're recording this podcast, my husband's um stuck in the OR.
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So I had to send my scrub tech to go pick up my daughter, and now she's waiting here while I'm you know, like all of that is gone when you're deployed.
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So on in that respect, it's very easy, but it's hard because you're away from your family, you know you're missing things, and you know, the whole aspect of being in a a war zone and wanting to make it home in one piece is is real.
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Um, it's just not something that's sustainable over.
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So I was there for seven and a half months.
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It's not that kind of fear or um worry is not sustainable over a long period of time.
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So once you get over the hump of just okay, I'm stuck here, then um you're not generally scared like you would think you would be.
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You just want to get home.
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So I mean, also so so many things to think about.
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But as you were just saying, like the oh, the logistics of like as crazy as it sounds, but again, I think surgeon mom logistics are like such, it's a unique surgeon parent, we can say too.
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But I I I think at least in my my house, the mom, the mom dynamics are its own special breed of like every question and everything like comes to me always just because you know, as a mom.
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But as you're saying, Kat, that it's like less stressful to some degree or a little more straightforward in some ways to be literally deployed in Afghanistan than to be home, you know, parenting as a surgeon.
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I was like, oh, that's gonna resonate with a lot of people that those listeners and justice are easier.
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I mean, how many times I've been at work, my kids be texting me here and I'm like, isn't dad home?
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You know what I mean?
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Like it's not like in the room next to you, like I'm actually at work.
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But um it I think it's just surgeon mom, like we're the immediate go-to.
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And so when you're out of the loop like that, you know, um it's both, but you know, we do it because we like it, we're the go-to because we enjoy it.
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So I think it's hard not know, you know, not being able to see your family, um, having to communicate by email or really crappy like Skype um signals if that's available.
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So I definitely wouldn't trade any of that.
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It was more the lead up to going and then the at the closer at the end when it's time to come home where you're like, please, I've gotten this far.
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Like, you know what I mean?
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You don't want you're just that's when that's when you really start to have some like fear or just worried that, you know, you just really want to make it back in one piece at that point and not have any hiccups along the way.
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Oh, of course.
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No, I can only imagine, yes, when it gets to that point for sure.
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I was just thinking as you were talking about um one of the things that I found personally of going through cancer is, you know, they're the idea that, you know, you can do everything that's in your control.
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You can think you're doing all the right things, and these things can happen anyway.
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And and you have to have some component, which especially as a surgeon, I think is very hard of letting go of some parts of this, right?
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There are things that we we can't ultimately impact the outcome.
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And I just wonder for you, Kat being, you know, that far away, young children, your husband and others are are in charge at that point.
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And there really is, you know, you're gonna have to let go of some control.
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And I just wondered, you know, what that experience was like for you again, especially as a surgeon mom, and how you found support in a way that allowed you, you know, to know that things were being well taken care of, but also in a way that maybe hopefully didn't drive you crazy since you had that distance and and there really was only so much you could do from a distance.
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Yeah, it was um it's funny how people approach that differently.
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I have a good friend who um deployed and she her husband was is a is a stay-at-home dad.
00:20:49.119 --> 00:20:53.440
And yet before she left, she was on the hospital ship for three months.
00:20:53.680 --> 00:21:12.400
Um, she made care packages for every like holiday she would miss, every I think there was gonna be a birthday that she was gonna miss, um, cards for people's like anniversaries or family, like anything that needed to be celebrated during the time she was gone, she set it all up for him, like teed it up.
00:21:12.559 --> 00:21:14.400
And I was like, oh my god.
00:21:15.759 --> 00:21:17.839
Um, she's very organized.
00:21:18.160 --> 00:21:31.200
Um so I did not do that, but I did have my sister lives near me, was heavily involved, um, although she had just had a baby, so you know, it didn't put too much pressure on her.
00:21:31.440 --> 00:21:38.640
And then my mom temporarily moved in um to our house to help um support with childcare.
00:21:38.880 --> 00:21:47.279
They were at daycare, so it wasn't um she didn't have them all the time, but she was around to assist with things because the surgeon's schedule is not predictable, right?
00:21:47.440 --> 00:21:49.599
So my husband's schedule is a little unpredictable.
00:21:49.839 --> 00:21:57.839
So having family support was helpful, but it also was interesting because anytime there was any friction, I immediately heard about it.
00:21:58.079 --> 00:21:59.759
So um, I feel like there was.
00:22:00.400 --> 00:22:06.240
Some, you know, you know, around I was there over the holidays, which, you know, definitely sucked.
00:22:06.480 --> 00:22:19.599
But Thanksgiving, you know, there was some uh drama about who was going where and who was serving and you know, hosting and um just little little nonsense, like petty nonsense.
00:22:19.680 --> 00:22:22.559
I would hear about it from my sister, from my husband, from my mom.
00:22:22.720 --> 00:22:26.799
If anybody like didn't get along, they would, you know, immediately vent to me.
00:22:26.960 --> 00:22:28.480
So not about my kids.
00:22:28.640 --> 00:22:41.839
My kids did great, they were oblivious to all of it, but all the adult stuff got filtered my way, which I thought was I was like, okay, well, I don't, I mean, I can help you, I guess, talk it through.
00:22:42.079 --> 00:22:44.000
I don't know what else I'm gonna do.
00:22:44.240 --> 00:22:52.640
And then the other person, um, so it was a we were a forward surgical team, so there was an orthopedic surgeon on my team, and he was great.
00:22:53.119 --> 00:23:03.920
Um he, his wife was home with three kids, and I let the guys know I was like, I've already done this on the other side, and it's kind of harder on the other side, like the one to be home.
00:23:04.240 --> 00:23:19.599
He did everything he could do to make sure bills were paid, like any administrative task for home, he was trying to take care of it from Afghanistan, which was comical, but also like so gallant, you know, whereas I didn't have to worry about any of that.
00:23:19.759 --> 00:23:34.240
Like I knew my husband could manage the admin stuff of making sure the electric bill was paid, but he was doing it really just because he knew his wife was gonna be doing all this extra work and he could at least do some of those things, and that's what he did, which was really nice.
00:23:34.480 --> 00:23:42.960
So I think everybody has that instinct to kind of pitch in because you know it's hard to be um solo, um, if you will.
00:23:43.200 --> 00:23:46.880
But um, yeah, that's kind of what got us through everything.
00:23:47.440 --> 00:23:59.920
Yeah, I think it's a great lesson also in that um, I mean, I think inherently, again, I find this to be very challenging is that letting others help and really giving the gift actually to others.
00:24:00.079 --> 00:24:04.640
Like I remember I used to tell my patients before I had to be the person who needed the help.
00:24:04.799 --> 00:24:15.119
You know, when people ask you if they can help, like it's actually a gift to them to not just, you know, blow it off and say you can do it, even if you, you know, you think you don't need it, it actually is a really lovely gift to give to others.
00:24:15.200 --> 00:24:16.559
And so I like your story so much.
00:24:16.720 --> 00:24:22.000
I probably, you know, ultimately it feels really good to do it, whatever you can do in those situations.
00:24:22.160 --> 00:24:27.599
And it really allowing someone else to help you in that way is actually a gift for them for sure.
00:24:28.160 --> 00:24:30.960
I mean, Janelle, what did you do with Christmas, right?
00:24:31.119 --> 00:24:32.799
Like how did you Oh yeah.
00:24:33.039 --> 00:24:38.319
I had um, okay, so my my husband is also a surgeon, he's an orthopedic surgeon.
00:24:38.559 --> 00:24:47.920
Um, and um that Christmas, like the the night I I was admitted to the hospital, um my husband was, you know, okay, what are we gonna do?
00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:49.839
Kind of, you know, at home, worrying.
00:24:49.920 --> 00:24:52.000
Of course, we didn't know the severity of it yet.
00:24:52.160 --> 00:24:57.039
And then the next morning he called his mom to tell his mom, like, oh, Janelle's in the hospital.
00:24:57.200 --> 00:24:59.200
And she like let him have it.
00:24:59.279 --> 00:25:01.759
She said, Why didn't you call me last night?
00:25:01.839 --> 00:25:03.759
I would have gotten in the car yesterday.
00:25:04.000 --> 00:25:07.279
So she was absolutely instrumental.
00:25:07.440 --> 00:25:08.880
She made Christmas happen.
00:25:08.960 --> 00:25:17.119
She did all the magic that that Christmas because my husband was back and forth um from the hospital.
00:25:17.359 --> 00:25:27.200
Um, and then, you know, the the next three months, like, you know, I had um, you know, all these procedures, I had an X fix on my arm for several weeks.
00:25:27.359 --> 00:25:29.599
Like there was a I needed a lot of help.
00:25:29.759 --> 00:25:36.000
Um, I was I was in the hospital for a total of a month, but um then when I was home, I still needed a ton of help.
00:25:36.079 --> 00:25:43.519
And we had family members um that, you know, my parents came, my sister came, my best friend came, you know, kind of did shifts through.
00:25:43.759 --> 00:25:45.759
My office was incredible.
00:25:45.920 --> 00:25:50.640
I think they made meals for our family for two months or something like that.
00:25:50.880 --> 00:26:15.039
Um and and so lovely, like kid meals, you know, like we were there were things that like my kids would would eat, but but it's exactly like you say, it took some um it took some work on my behalf to be like, no, I'm gonna ask for this because um I again, surgeon mom, I was like, this is hard on me, but who this is harder on is my husband.
00:26:15.279 --> 00:26:17.119
And um, how am I gonna help him?
00:26:17.279 --> 00:26:31.759
And so I would sit in my hospital bed and with my left arm organize these meal trains so that um, you know, he would have something for the kids and he was, you know, working full-time, but um making it happen.
00:26:31.920 --> 00:26:39.039
The other thing from a professional standpoint was, you know, like my world stopped on a dime, right?
00:26:39.119 --> 00:26:41.119
There was no planning, there was no nothing.
00:26:41.279 --> 00:26:44.559
And my partners, they they just picked it up.
00:26:44.640 --> 00:26:53.759
So, you know, my patients who were scheduled for the next three months, they sort of divvied them up or um, you know, rescheduled who could be rescheduled.
00:26:54.000 --> 00:27:01.200
Um, they uh my finances, of course, took like a major nosedive.
00:27:01.599 --> 00:27:05.119
And um God, they floated me through, right?
00:27:05.200 --> 00:27:15.759
I think there's a lot of practices that um would not have been as generous, but my partners just said, like, no, you'll you'll be back and you'll you'll you'll make it up.
00:27:15.920 --> 00:27:18.240
And they just floated my expenses through.
00:27:18.480 --> 00:27:22.720
It took 18 months for me to work my way out of that hole.
00:27:22.880 --> 00:27:28.640
Um, and they, I mean, it was just an incredible degree of generosity that they extended to me.
00:27:28.880 --> 00:27:34.640
Um, so I had help from a thousand different directions um and needed every ounce of it.
00:27:35.359 --> 00:27:37.440
Yeah, it was that you took it.
00:27:37.680 --> 00:27:39.359
Yeah, I took the help.
00:27:39.599 --> 00:27:40.480
What about you, Anne?
00:27:40.640 --> 00:27:43.680
Did you take the help or yeah, I know, right?
00:27:43.839 --> 00:27:53.599
Um I mean, I'm in solo private practice, but I think we all have the, which is, you know, could be a fun podcast in our itself that we all have surgeon husbands.
00:27:53.759 --> 00:27:58.720
And um I think definitely its own, you know, set of challenges.
00:27:58.880 --> 00:28:08.160
And I think, you know, having a plastic surgeon husband, um, who ultimately, when I had a double mastectomy in, let's see, it's been nine months now.
00:28:08.319 --> 00:28:16.640
Um, and he was actually involved in doing my nerve reconstruction for my surgery, just because there was no one else that I knew was going to be able to do it as well.
00:28:16.720 --> 00:28:23.119
So even though I had a obviously a different team doing the rest of my oncologic and reconstructive surgery, he was involved in my surgery.
00:28:23.200 --> 00:28:31.119
So I think for us, you know, really trying to piece together the fact that we were going to travel for my surgery, um, that we were both gonna be out of our practice.
00:28:31.279 --> 00:28:35.119
We operate together, even though we're in solo private practices separately.
00:28:35.279 --> 00:28:37.039
We operate together now one day a week.
00:28:37.119 --> 00:28:41.839
And so it was definitely a really big deal to reschedule people, obviously figure it out.
00:28:41.920 --> 00:28:44.079
It impacted both of our practices.
00:28:44.319 --> 00:28:51.039
Um, so I will say um hearing your story, Janelle, makes my heart very happy and is so appropriate.
00:28:51.119 --> 00:28:53.839
And I think the way all of us would do it for our partners.
00:28:54.000 --> 00:28:55.920
And so I'm so glad you had that experience.
00:28:56.079 --> 00:29:02.240
Um, I think being in solo private practice, you know, the benefit of it is that, okay, you know, here it is.
00:29:02.400 --> 00:29:03.200
It's just me.
00:29:03.279 --> 00:29:11.680
It's it's only impacting me to some degree, but my staff really had to step in and be the ones, you know, calling and rescheduling patients and moving people around.
00:29:11.759 --> 00:29:16.559
And my obviously I couldn't take on any new patients with cancer for the few weeks that I was out.
00:29:16.640 --> 00:29:21.920
Um, and so making sure those patients who called with breast cancer, you know, were able to get in somewhere else.
00:29:22.079 --> 00:29:25.440
Um, but it it kind of led me to the question I wanted to ask you.
00:29:25.519 --> 00:29:33.200
And then I think um, you know, potentially Kat relevant for you as well, but is this idea about how we share and how much we share?
00:29:33.359 --> 00:29:42.000
Um, because for me, having the diagnosis of the literal exact thing that I treat every day, both oncologically and reconstructively, like this is my practice.
00:29:42.240 --> 00:29:48.240
And so for me, it felt like the right thing to do to be really honest with patients about what was happening.
00:29:48.400 --> 00:29:57.759
And I shared pretty vocally on social media this time around, just to kind of demystify a lot of it and hopefully make it less scary for patients and be able to ask questions.
00:29:57.920 --> 00:30:01.519
Um, but it's not, it's actually not easy in many ways, right?
00:30:01.599 --> 00:30:07.680
Like you get a lot more questions from patients about very personal things and you sort of have to be ready and up for that.
00:30:08.079 --> 00:30:10.559
My kids are old enough to go on social media.
00:30:10.720 --> 00:30:13.680
So like they see when I talk about stuff and they knew.
00:30:13.839 --> 00:30:22.319
And I I really told them in a much more detailed way this time around about my diagnosis than when I did when I was first diagnosed eight years ago when they were much little littler.
00:30:22.640 --> 00:30:27.680
So, like, I'd love to hear Janelle, your experience of how do you share, how much do you share?
00:30:27.839 --> 00:30:35.200
Like your partners were doing your surgery, so someone knows in your office, you know, just the logistics of like how you handled all of that.
00:30:35.359 --> 00:30:37.440
I I mean, it's a really big deal.
00:30:37.920 --> 00:30:48.480
Yeah, in in the moment, um, like when it was all happening fast and furious, um, I told my partners, I was like, look, this there is no secret here.
00:30:48.559 --> 00:30:55.200
Like, there's literally no way in the town that we're in that this would be private for any period of time.
00:30:55.359 --> 00:30:59.440
Um, and so, and so I just I was like, you know what, that's fine.
00:31:00.079 --> 00:31:04.640
Tell the story, and I I don't need to feel like I need to control that narrative.
00:31:04.720 --> 00:31:06.559
Like that, that is fine with me.
00:31:06.720 --> 00:31:11.599
Um, and I think it was actually really helpful for my partners, right?
00:31:11.680 --> 00:31:16.640
Like they had an outlet, right, and didn't feel like they had to, you know, keep this private.
00:31:16.880 --> 00:31:22.319
My staff, same thing, like they um, everyone was very sort of glad to know.
00:31:22.400 --> 00:31:27.839
I think, especially because things went in a good direction, not a bad direction, but they um they were glad to know what was going on.
00:31:27.920 --> 00:31:34.480
And it certainly made when I like came back in, it made that way easier because like everyone already knew.
00:31:34.640 --> 00:31:42.000
I didn't have to tell the story to, you know, in an awkward way to everyone who wasn't sure whether or not they should ask, you know.
00:31:42.480 --> 00:31:48.720
So um a lot of people did that sharing work for me, and I was I was very fine with that.
00:31:48.960 --> 00:31:51.759
With patients, it is a little different.
00:31:52.000 --> 00:32:02.720
And the couple ways that I experience it is so I'm I'm a microsurgeon, and I I actually had a DIEP flap, a giant bipedicle DIP flap to cover my arm from wrist to shoulder.
00:32:02.960 --> 00:32:09.279
I literally had the surgery that I perform on people twice a week, um, which is it's very weird, isn't it, Ann?
00:32:10.319 --> 00:32:12.640
You know, I've I've kind of morphed in that.
00:32:12.720 --> 00:32:15.839
Like I think it's part of my own healing and recovery.
00:32:16.000 --> 00:32:22.799
Like in the probably in the first year, I I talked to a lot more patients about it directly.
00:32:22.880 --> 00:32:28.079
Like I would bring it up, you know, I would say, like, oh, you know, I've had this procedure and this was my experience.
00:32:28.240 --> 00:32:30.720
I think some patients really appreciated that.
00:32:30.880 --> 00:32:40.000
I think part of it was like my, like I'm saying, like it was my way of sort of like recovering from this and like, you know, healing myself in a way.
00:32:40.240 --> 00:32:42.960
I had to have my belly button resected.
00:32:43.200 --> 00:32:49.599
And and I've had patients who I talk about doing that for, and they say, Oh, that'd be so weird to not have a belly button.
00:32:49.680 --> 00:32:53.200
And more times than I'd like to admit, I've told patients, well, I don't have a belly button.
00:32:55.200 --> 00:32:58.960
It's a funny thing, but it definitely was like a connection to people.
00:32:59.200 --> 00:33:07.119
I'd say as time has gone on, I share less and less, not out of privacy reasons, but just because I don't feel like I need it as much anymore.
00:33:07.359 --> 00:33:19.599
I feel like I'm back in like a very normal routine of life, and I like I don't think about this every day anymore, and so it's not as front of mind.
00:33:19.759 --> 00:33:25.839
So the second part of it is I have a very visible deformity on my arm now.
00:33:26.079 --> 00:33:30.880
This is something that I still struggle with a little bit, you know, in the sense that like kids stare at me.
00:33:31.039 --> 00:33:36.799
Um, I get weird random questions from strangers all the time about what happened in my arm.
00:33:36.960 --> 00:33:43.039
You know, I'll have conversations with people and they'll keep like their eyes dart to my arm back and forth and back and forth a whole bunch of times.
00:33:43.200 --> 00:33:59.039
Um, and that has been a real um, and I'm I'm still working through it, but to go from having a totally typical body to now having a different one that is um very noticeable.
00:33:59.279 --> 00:34:08.639
It gives me a glimpse into the world of what people with either congenital differences or deformities or disabilities in other ways, like what they experience on a daily basis.
00:34:08.719 --> 00:34:13.920
And that that's something I still am sort of struggling to figure out how how I deal with that.
00:34:14.159 --> 00:34:15.679
Yeah, I can imagine, Janelle.
00:34:15.760 --> 00:34:25.679
And I think again, it is a it is a beautiful thing to be able to look at that and think about, you know, how that I'm sure makes you a better plastic surgeon, right?
00:34:25.760 --> 00:34:28.239
In terms of the things that people go through and that connection.
00:34:28.400 --> 00:34:43.119
But also, you know, I don't I don't know for you how that's gone and what that piece has been like, but I I know for myself, um, I really relied on my therapist a lot to be super honest in terms of getting through kind of the changes that were gonna happen and what that was gonna mean.
00:34:43.280 --> 00:34:47.519
It's been really lovely to actually appreciate how much of a difference that made that's made.
00:34:47.599 --> 00:35:04.639
And while that one I I will sometimes share and sometimes not, but I I'm definitely much more proactive, I think, with my patients now who are going through things, having been at this place to be like, let's get you some real support to be thinking about how to go through these and the true like burden that comes with all of this.
00:35:04.800 --> 00:35:13.760
Um, so again, I'm sorry that you have to know what that's like, um, but appreciate how I'm sure again, like you're you're a better doctor every day, you know, with that.
00:35:13.840 --> 00:35:14.559
I have no question.
00:35:14.800 --> 00:35:19.360
Well, yeah, and and you know, having young kids, like this is a really interesting thing too.
00:35:19.519 --> 00:35:22.079
So, like my kids don't even see it, right?
00:35:22.159 --> 00:35:26.000
Like they, my arm is my arm, they don't see it, right?
00:35:26.239 --> 00:35:31.679
Um, but they will um they'll see things in other people, right?
00:35:31.760 --> 00:35:33.840
And ask me about it or point it out.
00:35:34.079 --> 00:35:36.960
And I will remind them, oh, well, it's like my arm.
00:35:37.039 --> 00:35:43.840
Like, there's nothing wrong with my arm, but it looks different, you know, it works perfect, but it looks different, and that is so true in so many people in our world.
00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:57.840
So it's been an interesting lesson for my own kids in looking at people with disability or deformity and um and you know, learning about the assumptions you make are not always right, and and how to ask people.
00:35:58.000 --> 00:36:18.159
Like I've oh my gosh, I've experienced so many people asking me about my arm in ways that range from like incredibly caring and thoughtful to just rude or mean, you know, um, and and you know, sort of sharing, sharing that with my kids on different ways to ask those questions and for myself even, right?
00:36:18.320 --> 00:36:26.320
Like um like learning how to talk to other people authentically and openly in a way that's supportive to them, right?
00:36:26.480 --> 00:36:31.119
It's um it's really changed my perspective on that.
00:36:31.440 --> 00:36:31.760
Yeah.
00:36:32.079 --> 00:36:36.639
Kat, I wanted to pivot a little bit um and thinking about also kind of like practice challenges.
00:36:36.719 --> 00:36:41.519
I know we've been talking about, you know, personal challenges and families and and getting past that.
00:36:41.679 --> 00:36:47.760
And I know that you've had an experience with your practice world kind of turning upside down to some degree.
00:36:47.840 --> 00:36:51.119
If that's, you know, I don't want to overstate it, but sounded like it could have might have felt like that.
00:36:51.280 --> 00:36:57.360
And would love to hear you talk a little bit more about, you know, what happened, what that was like, and what it's been like on the other side of that.
00:36:58.000 --> 00:37:11.760
I was in the Navy, like I said, for 12 years, and I left the Navy and uh started the private practice with somebody I'd been a colleague with in the Navy for that entire 12 years and unknown for a really long time.
00:37:11.840 --> 00:37:14.000
And we started the practice together.
00:37:14.159 --> 00:37:32.079
Um, and then about a little over a year into it, um he uh decided that that was no longer gonna work for him for him, which is fine, I guess, but it leaves it just away, it was all the things that you never considered.
00:37:32.320 --> 00:37:37.280
So it's just another example of how like life can throw you a curveball, right?
00:37:37.360 --> 00:37:48.559
So I had gone into this practice as it was a two-person practice, the space is set up for two surgeons, the everything's built for two, and then this person is going to walk away.
00:37:48.800 --> 00:37:58.960
Um, with no real, like there's no exit penalty financially, or you know, I mean, there's a penalty in that you have to start all over somewhere.
00:37:59.039 --> 00:38:03.360
And he moved to Northern California and did that for a little bit and then moved on again.
00:38:03.679 --> 00:38:10.559
But there's no, like, once that person leaves, you're just sort of left holding it all.
00:38:10.880 --> 00:38:20.079
And it really was um, it was hard for me because I was like, well, this wasn't, I mean, if that had been my plan all along, I would have done it that way, but I that wasn't.
00:38:20.239 --> 00:38:29.760
So now I have to figure out how to make this practice that is built for two work for one with the overhead and all the other, you know, things that can came with it.
00:38:30.000 --> 00:38:36.400
Um, and I like briefly considered bringing somebody else on and you know, explored a ton of different options.
00:38:36.480 --> 00:38:41.440
And I feel like that was at the end of 2019.
00:38:42.079 --> 00:38:43.920
So we all know what happened.
00:38:44.559 --> 00:38:46.400
So so here's how it played out.
00:38:46.480 --> 00:38:50.719
So the end of 2019 was his last day, December 31st.
00:38:50.960 --> 00:38:59.199
Um, the last few months were really rough because although initially when he said he was gonna leave, it was gonna be we wanted what's best for each of us.
00:38:59.280 --> 00:39:08.719
And then, of course, as anybody who's ever been in a business engagement knows that that rapidly devolves into this is your fault or not your fault or what's going on, you know, whatever.
00:39:08.800 --> 00:39:11.440
So it was very ugly, and there were lawyers involved.
00:39:11.760 --> 00:39:20.320
And then so you roll over, get through the holidays, and then it's February, and I went to the Women's Plastic Surgery Symposium, it was in Nashville.
00:39:20.719 --> 00:39:22.960
Um, and I was devastated.
00:39:23.119 --> 00:39:25.440
I was like, how I don't know if I can do this.
00:39:25.519 --> 00:39:28.159
And a testament to my husband who was like, it's fine.
00:39:28.239 --> 00:39:31.840
I mean, we were literally not even a year out of practice.
00:39:32.000 --> 00:39:36.079
So if you have ever, and you'll know when you started your practice, you took a loan.
00:39:36.239 --> 00:39:36.400
Yeah.
00:39:37.599 --> 00:39:37.840
Right?
00:39:38.000 --> 00:39:40.639
So now I'm the sole person on this loan.
00:39:40.800 --> 00:39:43.599
Like all of that responsibility is just me.
00:39:44.320 --> 00:39:52.320
So I'm uh, you know, explaining to my friends who were at the WPS symposium, like, what do I do?
00:39:52.480 --> 00:39:56.159
Like what what you know, trying not to melt down.
00:39:56.400 --> 00:39:59.199
And so they were extremely supportive.
00:39:59.360 --> 00:40:07.119
Um, and then I feel like that I love that symposium for lots of reasons, but you really get to share with people and find out you're not alone.
00:40:07.280 --> 00:40:09.599
Like people have faced all kinds of other things.
00:40:09.760 --> 00:40:22.320
So I was talking to somebody else who was like, well, I'm just going through this ugly divorce and I can't, I'm trapped in this practice setting that I'm in that I don't want to be in, but I can't afford to leave because I'm gonna get stuck pain.
00:40:22.400 --> 00:40:33.280
Alone, you know, all these things about um, you know, circumstances, which she eventually came out of, and you know, it's been enough time that I know everyone's succeeded from this.
00:40:33.440 --> 00:40:35.760
To other people who are like, what you need to do is pivot.
00:40:35.920 --> 00:40:42.480
This was the most helpful piece of information, honestly, by happenchance, is pivot to doing some cases under local.
00:40:42.639 --> 00:40:48.800
Um, try start doing labioplasties, which I do a ton of now to this day, but start here.
00:40:48.880 --> 00:40:50.480
This is let me break it down for you.
00:40:50.639 --> 00:40:51.519
This is how I do it.
00:40:51.679 --> 00:40:58.000
This is how, you know, from the inquiry to the follow-up, this is how to lay it out.
00:40:58.159 --> 00:41:03.280
Um, during one of the like sessions where we were supposed to be in there talking about work-life balance.
00:41:03.440 --> 00:41:09.280
That's I got the complete download from Cynthia Deal, who's in North Carolina, like, this is how to do labiplasty.
00:41:09.519 --> 00:41:17.440
Um, both the business aspect of it and the surgical aspect of it, which you all know we can like look up, you know, that that part's easy.
00:41:17.760 --> 00:41:21.599
Um so that happened to be in February.
00:41:21.840 --> 00:41:25.679
And then within a month, it was COVID and we were shut down.
00:41:25.840 --> 00:41:28.719
My access, I didn't have an OR in my office at that time.
00:41:29.039 --> 00:41:35.280
So once things opened up a little bit, you know, what I could do was stuff under local and easily.
00:41:35.440 --> 00:41:37.519
It was hard to find ORs.
00:41:37.679 --> 00:41:42.800
It was several more months before ORs were up and functioning, and we had COVID protocols.
00:41:42.960 --> 00:42:01.679
And I just remember thinking, really, like, I just went from being in a co-serv, you know, a, you know, uh sharing this practice with somebody to being feeling like I got stuck holding the bag, knowing that that person who left wanted me to fail in the most, you know, glorious way possible.
00:42:01.920 --> 00:42:04.880
And then having COVID come right around the corner.
00:42:04.960 --> 00:42:09.199
And I was like, I I don't know if this is gonna, is this gonna work?
00:42:09.440 --> 00:42:15.280
But again, you know, my husband was full support and um got through it.
00:42:15.360 --> 00:42:25.119
And what happened is I did a lot of stuff under local, and then as the ORS opened up, everybody, nobody knew that at the time there was gonna be this big boom of cosmetic surgery, right?
00:42:25.199 --> 00:42:31.199
Because people had time off, they're working from home, they're not working, that's what they want, you know, it was all a huge buildup.
00:42:31.280 --> 00:42:32.559
So it worked out for me.
00:42:32.719 --> 00:42:41.760
But that period of like February to July when you're when every day, I mean, you share the horror of what everyone was going through.
00:42:41.840 --> 00:42:44.480
Like, are kids ever gonna go back to school in person?
00:42:44.800 --> 00:42:46.960
You know, are we ever gonna be able to travel again?
00:42:47.199 --> 00:42:48.159
All of those things.
00:42:48.320 --> 00:42:52.880
And is my business gonna be viable, you know, at all?
00:42:53.039 --> 00:42:58.719
And of course, it turns out it it worked out for almost everybody, but it was scary at the time.
00:42:58.960 --> 00:43:09.440
And um, again, just having support of I had um like a Zoom happy hour with Cynthia, um, I'm trying to remember Marissa Lawrence and Atlanta.
00:43:09.599 --> 00:43:24.639
There were two or three other people on there, and we would, you know, get on a call and drink wine every couple weeks and just talk about stuff because all of us were in private practice and trying to figure out how we were gonna negotiate, you know, being back online.
00:43:24.719 --> 00:43:38.719
And you guys had it differently, you know, all cancer operations are on hold, or maybe cancer operations are back, but now reconstructions are on hold and how that impacted your life, I'm sure it was, you know, equally painful, but that's kind of how I got through it.
00:43:38.960 --> 00:43:45.760
Oh my gosh, Kat, I was I have the moments where I've called people and been like, today I was going to crawl under my desk and just never come out, like never.
00:43:45.920 --> 00:43:47.519
And that was what you were describing that.
00:43:47.679 --> 00:43:52.159
I was like, oh, that was like months of crawling under your desk and never wanting to come out.
00:43:52.239 --> 00:43:59.760
Um, but you're you're saying you had WPS in there like made my heart really happy because I was like, oh, thank goodness you were around people.
00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:02.400
That would like fully get it.
00:44:02.480 --> 00:44:10.639
And I love the tangible strategy of like, not only are we going to be supportive, but here's some actual things that you could do to help with that transition.
00:44:10.800 --> 00:44:15.599
Because I have to imagine, you know, staff wise, equipment-wise.
00:44:15.760 --> 00:44:19.280
I mean, like you said, everything was set up for two people.
00:44:19.440 --> 00:44:23.599
And now you're trying to figure out like how to manage all of that just on your own.
00:44:23.679 --> 00:44:27.840
And then COVID again, I can, I can only imagine those months.
00:44:28.159 --> 00:44:30.159
Yeah, it was, it was daunting.
00:44:30.239 --> 00:44:42.320
But then I agree, like when you're in a community or a network of, like in this case, women's surgeons, there was always somebody who was, you know, not so rattled, had their shit together and was like, here's the protocol for cleaning the office.
00:44:42.400 --> 00:44:43.840
This is how, you know, remember all that?
00:44:43.920 --> 00:44:50.960
Like how we're gonna make sure the office is clean and you know what the COVID protocol was for the OR, all that stuff had to come from somewhere.
00:44:51.039 --> 00:45:05.199
And instead of having to invent the wheel over and over again, a lot of us just shared with each other so that whoever was less, you know, deep in a bottle of Chardonnay, whoever was functioning at that time, was able to, was able to pull that together.
00:45:05.440 --> 00:45:18.960
And you knew it was gonna, you know, like deep down, every time there's some kind of like mini like setback or crisis, there's you know that that time's gonna get wasted if you're wallowing in it.
00:45:19.119 --> 00:45:20.639
Like you could be doing other things.
00:45:20.800 --> 00:45:22.639
It's just sometimes hard to pull out of it.
00:45:22.719 --> 00:45:30.400
And that's I think what you need support from your friends and colleagues and family so that you don't wallow in whatever the setback is.
00:45:30.719 --> 00:45:32.559
But yeah, I could not agree more on anything.
00:45:32.719 --> 00:45:33.679
Oh, go ahead, Chanel.
00:45:33.920 --> 00:45:35.199
Oh, I was just gonna ask.
00:45:35.280 --> 00:45:42.719
Um, you know, I I I wonder if you guys have, because I certainly did when I was, you know, recovering and coming back.
00:45:42.880 --> 00:45:47.119
I had a moment where I thought to myself, do I want to go back to work?
00:45:47.280 --> 00:45:50.880
Like here's a you know pivot point in my life.
00:45:51.119 --> 00:45:54.800
Um, you know, risk and recovery, all this.
00:45:55.119 --> 00:45:56.639
Do I, do I, is this still what I want?
00:45:56.800 --> 00:46:00.320
Do I want to go back to work and spend all this time and make these sacrifices?
00:46:00.400 --> 00:46:01.679
And do I want to do this?
00:46:01.920 --> 00:46:06.960
And obviously, all three of us chose to crawl back out from under the desk and go back to work, right?
00:46:07.119 --> 00:46:13.440
Um but I wonder if you guys ever had those thoughts and what what made you choose to keep going?
00:46:15.039 --> 00:46:15.679
Oh, yeah.
00:46:15.760 --> 00:46:27.840
So I actually have a breast surgical oncology friend of mine who was just diagnosed uh with breast cancer, had a double mastectomy, and I just saw that she has moved her whole family to Bali.
00:46:28.400 --> 00:46:35.920
She has kids and moved them to Bali, and they're doing like they're doing it, and she's homeschooling them and she's doing something so different.
00:46:36.000 --> 00:46:37.199
And I love that for her.
00:46:37.280 --> 00:46:44.320
And I was looking at that and I was like, yes, I could see how that could have gone that totally different direction for me.
00:46:44.400 --> 00:46:46.239
Like as I definitely had those moments, right?
00:46:46.320 --> 00:46:50.320
And you also get with cancer, you get all the, oh, stress causes cancer.
00:46:50.480 --> 00:46:55.599
And so needless to say, like, I think again, young kids, private practice surgery, all of those things.
00:46:55.679 --> 00:46:58.320
There's no question, there's a little bit of added stress with it.
00:46:58.480 --> 00:47:06.559
But, you know, I think for me, um, the kind of like Kat you were just saying, like the way I think about it is the concept of seasons.
00:47:06.880 --> 00:47:13.599
And so I think just reminding myself of like the first time I was diagnosed with breast cancer, I was a year in to my practice.
00:47:13.760 --> 00:47:19.760
I had, was in the midst of yeah, a messy leaving the guy I thought I was office sharing with who turned out to not work out.
00:47:19.840 --> 00:47:21.360
And I have this new diagnosis.
00:47:21.440 --> 00:47:22.320
I have really young kids.
00:47:22.480 --> 00:47:27.280
I don't have the community I have now, I don't have the patients, I don't have any of the structure, right?
00:47:27.440 --> 00:47:33.440
And so now this kind of goes around and actually like I have so much more to support me and get me through it.
00:47:33.599 --> 00:47:51.599
And I think the idea of looking at that and realizing like how much being in this community, breast surgery, plastic surgery, the people that I've gotten as mentors, the people I have, like the the get on the Zoom and call and have a glass of wine with and help you, like I didn't have any of that a year into practice, and I have so much of that now, 10 years into practice.
00:47:51.679 --> 00:48:03.440
And I actually have to say it was that looking back and realizing how much richer my life is as a result of all of these things that made it like I will get out up from under my desk and I am gonna go back and I'm gonna go back in a thoughtful way.
00:48:03.519 --> 00:48:08.880
Like I do think I make more thoughtful, intentional choices with all of this.
00:48:09.039 --> 00:48:11.119
And I'm curious if you all feel that way too.
00:48:11.199 --> 00:48:18.000
And it's not just a like, oh, it's so lucky that you know every day is a gift because I I could have metastatic cancer tomorrow, right?
00:48:18.079 --> 00:48:24.239
Like you guys both know, like trauma, being deployed, like all of this stuff happens very fast and out of nowhere.
00:48:24.400 --> 00:48:32.800
But it's really more like, okay, I'm if I'm gonna be doing this every day and I'm gonna be getting back from everything I've I've been through, like let's make this what I really want it to be.
00:48:32.880 --> 00:48:37.679
And that is a is a beautiful, unexpected surprise of all this, I think, personally.
00:48:38.800 --> 00:48:40.880
Yeah, I think that's an excellent point.
00:48:40.960 --> 00:48:45.360
And I do, I admire the people who pivot and are like, fuck it, I'm done.
00:48:45.519 --> 00:48:49.920
Like this is not how I want to like that's a kind of like a reckoning with what you're doing.
00:48:50.000 --> 00:48:56.320
And obviously, we've all chosen to continue doing surgery and just appreciate it differently or better.
00:48:56.559 --> 00:49:07.199
Um, and I think the other little thing that I think that is important is I've never forgotten, like, I don't forget the people who've helped me out who, you know, have talked me down.
00:49:07.280 --> 00:49:11.920
I mean, there's so many I could count on every time I have like a little mini crisis.
00:49:12.159 --> 00:49:49.039
And anytime somebody is like in trouble and I am remotely acquainted with them, I try to make the effort to reach out and offer support because I think that's the other piece of it is if I'm in a good place, then I will text that person and be like, you know, you've got this, or you know, give me a call on the weekend if you if you want to just vent about what's going on and provide that um kind of give it back because I think that it a makes it feel not so alone when something not exciting or you know, not something unexpected and not great happens to you.
00:49:49.199 --> 00:49:54.719
You know that this kind of stuff happens all the time to other people, so it gives you perspective.
00:49:54.960 --> 00:50:01.199
And then also you are kind of you know moving moving the community forward.
00:50:01.280 --> 00:50:03.199
So I think that's also super important.
00:50:03.920 --> 00:50:04.719
Ugh, I love that.
00:50:04.880 --> 00:50:06.159
Janelle, what do you think?
00:50:06.480 --> 00:50:09.760
Yeah, I I I kind of went through a very similar thing.
00:50:09.920 --> 00:50:27.039
Um, but I think the I think the big thing for me was I would I was like, you know, I could go and you know be with my kids and spend every moment with them and do all this, but wait a minute, my life was literally transformed by this magic of plastic surgery.
00:50:27.199 --> 00:50:40.639
And I have these skills and um like a responsibility almost to like give it back, you know, I I'm able to do this same thing for another person that these that these people just did for me.
00:50:40.719 --> 00:50:47.840
And like the thought of um not doing that, it just after a while just didn't seem like an option.
00:50:48.159 --> 00:50:53.599
I was like, I was like, absolutely, I I need to I need to keep doing this.
00:50:53.920 --> 00:51:02.719
Um yeah, yeah, but it does make you a lot more intentional and um makes it kind of makes the priorities a little easier in some ways.
00:51:03.199 --> 00:51:25.920
Yes, actually, again, I think like I always think about what surprises me from having been through this, and I think it does make it a little easier in some ways when when you know how important it is to be thoughtful and intentional again, especially going through things like this with kids, where I feel like it it puts even more importance on you have to wake up every day and make those intentional choices, which is kind of a good surprise.
00:51:26.079 --> 00:51:34.639
Um, so before we end, I would just love um, I know uh Kat, you touched on a little bit, but just thinking through again, we're all gonna have something, right?
00:51:34.800 --> 00:51:37.679
And it's they're gonna be different something, but we're all gonna have something.
00:51:37.920 --> 00:51:46.239
And you have someone that's listening to this is in the middle of one of these setbacks, these times the crawl under the desk and never come out times.
00:51:46.320 --> 00:51:52.559
Like, what would be something that you would love to share with someone listening to this as kind of a closing thoughts as we end up our podcast?
00:51:53.599 --> 00:52:00.719
I would say just, I mean, you can be a hundred percent confident you're not alone, even though you might feel that way.
00:52:00.960 --> 00:52:06.079
I mean, somebody else you can share that, what you're going through with someone else.
00:52:06.400 --> 00:52:16.719
And I think um having a strong network of um plastic surgeons or people in your community, or just you know, you can always phones.
00:52:16.960 --> 00:52:23.360
I I think no one is going to be not receptive to your reach out for help if somebody doesn't.
00:52:23.519 --> 00:52:24.559
I think it's two things.
00:52:24.639 --> 00:52:29.119
You if somebody offers help or support, you have to be willing to take it.
00:52:29.360 --> 00:52:51.519
And I think if no one's, you know, raising their hand because maybe you're not revealing what's going on, then I think you know, reaching out is is important and you know, maybe to more than one person just to see if you can get some support because going through any of this alone is just um it just isn't how you should do it, I don't think.
00:52:51.840 --> 00:52:53.920
Yes, agreed, Janelle.
00:52:54.400 --> 00:52:56.320
Yeah, I would say I would say two things.
00:52:56.480 --> 00:53:07.360
So um, so one thing uh someone told me when I was, you know, in the thick of it, and I was I was talking about like, oh, I just can't believe all the support, all these people that are helping.
00:53:07.599 --> 00:53:13.840
And um, this friend told me, she said, Janelle, you have to understand, like, you created this.
00:53:14.320 --> 00:53:16.880
You are the reason that these people are coming.
00:53:17.039 --> 00:53:19.199
And you are you created this community.
00:53:19.280 --> 00:53:20.719
This is your community.
00:53:20.960 --> 00:53:24.960
And um, and that just like flipped my world upside down.
00:53:25.119 --> 00:53:36.239
I was like, oh my gosh, like this isn't luck, this is the work that we have put in in our communities and with our relationships and how we take care of people, you know, through your life.
00:53:36.400 --> 00:53:39.599
And then in your moment of need, it will come back to you.
00:53:39.760 --> 00:53:49.760
So it's always worth it to do those things that Kat was talking about, you know, check in on somebody or you know, give that gift card or do whatever the thing is, right?
00:53:49.840 --> 00:53:57.199
Um, because your day, like we all will have something, and um, and the community that you create will be the one that's there for you.
00:53:57.360 --> 00:53:58.239
That's the first thing.
00:53:58.320 --> 00:54:09.760
And then the second thing is like um even when everything seems totally out of control, you actually do have some control and and you have control over how you're going to react, right?
00:54:10.079 --> 00:54:20.079
Um, and one of the big things that I kept telling myself was like this is horrible and devastating and life-changing, but it doesn't have to define me.
00:54:20.320 --> 00:54:31.199
And um, I a lot of the work that I've kind of done, you know, mentally and emotionally is to like make my life not about my neck fashion right.
00:54:31.360 --> 00:54:37.199
And now my life is about my family, my life is about being a plastic surgeon, and I happen to have this arm.
00:54:37.360 --> 00:54:44.880
Um, and that was the the bit of control that I found in um this like really out of control wild situation.
00:54:45.039 --> 00:54:49.280
So so you you you're you're never you always have some control.
00:54:50.000 --> 00:54:51.440
Oh, those are all so good.
00:54:51.599 --> 00:54:52.559
I was sitting here smiling.
00:54:52.639 --> 00:54:57.679
I I wish we could have video because I'm like, yes, I both of what you look at, like, yes, I need all of that.
00:54:57.840 --> 00:55:05.760
Um, I think, you know, very briefly as we're wrapping up, I think the thing that I always remind myself and I share with patients all the time, like there will be another side to it.
00:55:05.840 --> 00:55:06.719
Like there just will be.
00:55:06.800 --> 00:55:10.800
Like you said, Janelle, you know, there are lots of days now you don't think about it, right?
00:55:10.880 --> 00:55:12.239
Like there will be another side.
00:55:12.320 --> 00:55:16.000
And and I think it's so hard to see that when you're in it, but but there will be.
00:55:16.159 --> 00:55:18.000
So um I just, Dr.
00:55:18.079 --> 00:55:18.719
Susa, Dr.
00:55:18.800 --> 00:55:22.239
Gallus, I cannot thank you two enough uh for sharing so openly.
00:55:22.320 --> 00:55:27.440
Um, and I'm really grateful to Limitless for setting this up, for Allergan for their support.
00:55:27.519 --> 00:55:30.400
Um, and again, really appreciate you both being on today.
00:55:31.039 --> 00:55:41.360
Thanks for tuning in to another episode of the Limitless Leaders Podcast Series brought to you by ASPS, the Aesthetic Society, and the American Hernanie Society, with the generous support of Allergan Aesthetics.
00:55:41.519 --> 00:55:45.920
We hope you enjoyed our conversation today and gained valuable insights and inspirations from our guests.
00:55:46.159 --> 00:55:51.599
Check out our other episodes on your favorite podcast platform or download them directly from ASPS Ednet.
00:55:52.000 --> 00:55:57.920
Stay tuned for new seasons and exciting episodes where we continue celebrating and empowering women leaders in our field.