WEBVTT
00:00:01.840 -->
00:00:06.320This episode is brought to you by Round Table Group, the experts on experts.
00:00:06.320 -->
00:00:09.919We've been connecting attorneys with experts for over 30 years.
00:00:09.919 -->
00:00:13.119Find out more at RoundtableGrip.com.
00:00:14.800 -->
00:00:16.559Welcome to Engaging Experts.
00:00:16.559 -->
00:00:21.600I'm your host, Noah Bolmer, and today I'm excited to welcome Randy Wall to the show.
00:00:21.600 -->
00:00:22.000Mr.
00:00:22.000 -->
00:00:32.240Wall is the principal at Snow Sports Expert in Consulting, where he provides expert and forensic services for cases involving skiing, sledding, tubing, and other snow sports.
00:00:32.240 -->
00:00:32.640Mr.
00:00:32.640 -->
00:00:37.039Wall holds a master of public administration from Montana State.
00:00:37.039 -->
00:00:37.439Mr.
00:00:37.439 -->
00:00:41.119Wall, thank you so much for joining me here today on Engaging Experts.
00:00:41.439 -->
00:00:42.640Well, thanks for having me.
00:00:42.960 -->
00:00:44.399Of course, let's jump into it.
00:00:44.399 -->
00:00:50.240So your career has spanned civil engineering to so to snow sports.
00:00:50.240 -->
00:00:53.520How did you first become involved in expert witnessing?
00:00:53.920 -->
00:01:04.959Well, let me just correct you right out of the gate, Noah, because I've actually been a certified ski instructor longer than I've been a licensed civil engineer.
00:01:04.959 -->
00:01:05.519Wow.
00:01:05.519 -->
00:01:17.280I yeah, I got my first Alpine certification from the Professional Ski Instructors of America or PSIA in Mammoth Mountain, California in 1982.
00:01:17.280 -->
00:01:23.359And uh then I think I got my first civil engineering license in 1987.
00:01:23.359 -->
00:01:25.040Yeah, so I've been around for a while.
00:01:25.280 -->
00:01:28.319So how did you first become involved in expert witnessing?
00:01:28.560 -->
00:01:37.040I was born and raised in California, and my wife and I, who's also a civil engineer, we've been entrepreneurs our entire lives.
00:01:37.040 -->
00:01:44.000And we had an engineering firm in Northern California in a town called Auburn, California that we owned there for 15 years.
00:01:44.000 -->
00:01:54.400And I was pretty well known in the community, and attorneys in the community sought me out to do expert witness work in the civil engineering field.
00:01:54.400 -->
00:01:58.480It wasn't a a career pursuit.
00:01:58.480 -->
00:02:03.760It was just something that I did because they contacted me and wanted me to do it.
00:02:03.760 -->
00:02:05.519So that's really how I got started.
00:02:05.840 -->
00:02:09.520Were you aware of expert witnessing at all at that point?
00:02:09.520 -->
00:02:13.680Is it something that you were looking for or did it just kind of fall on your lap?
00:02:14.080 -->
00:02:22.879I like the work because I've got pretty good communication skills, which is kind of atypical for engineers.
00:02:22.879 -->
00:02:26.879And yeah, I like the work.
00:02:26.879 -->
00:02:28.080I like the research.
00:02:28.080 -->
00:02:32.479I like I've always been intrigued by the legal field.
00:02:32.800 -->
00:02:39.360When you get a phone call from for a potential engagement, how do you decide whether or not you're going to accept it?
00:02:39.360 -->
00:02:44.560What are some of the main things that you look for to vet a potential engagement?
00:02:44.960 -->
00:02:59.599Well, one thing I learned through my engineering career and basically being all things, all sales, all entrepreneurial, is to uh get people talking and listen to them.
00:02:59.599 -->
00:03:02.400Attorneys are pretty cool like that because they like to talk.
00:03:02.400 -->
00:03:12.800And so I get them to tell me through follow-up questions and just conversationally, just everything they know about the case right off the bat.
00:03:12.800 -->
00:03:26.560A lot of times, what a an attorney will do is send me the complaint first in an inquiry over the internet, and then we'll schedule a call.
00:03:26.560 -->
00:03:33.840Yeah, sometimes it's just not a good fit because my expertise is very specialized.
00:03:34.240 -->
00:03:44.960What are, you know, some of the kind of tangential engagements that you have to think about for a minute, whether or not you're the right person, and how do you go about saying no?
00:03:45.280 -->
00:03:52.879I just had an inquiry from an attorney, and they had absolutely no evidence.
00:03:52.879 -->
00:04:09.039There was collision on the hill, and the plaintiff got hit by a snowboarder, and it broke his ribs and it broke his arm, but he skied down to the clinic.
00:04:09.039 -->
00:04:29.839Typically, in a ski accident, what will happen is that there'll be a collision, somebody goes down, they call the ski patrol, the ski patrol shows up towing a toboggan, they assess the situation, they'll do what's called an incident report, and they'll put the person in the toboggan.
00:04:29.839 -->
00:04:46.240The ski areas that really have got it together, somebody from the ski area will show up on the site, typically like a mountain manager or assistant mountain manager, and they'll take pictures of the event, the area, the event, and make their own sketch.
00:04:46.240 -->
00:04:51.040Uh, but in this particular case, there was no documentation.
00:04:51.040 -->
00:05:07.600The ski boarder went off, the guy skied down to the clinic, and the only the only piece of paper that they had for the entire case was this medical intake form at the clinic.
00:05:07.600 -->
00:05:09.360So there just wasn't enough.
00:05:09.360 -->
00:05:14.079Yeah, it was it was it really came down to he said she said.
00:05:14.079 -->
00:05:22.560They wanted to hire me to do accident reconstruction, to go to the site and look at it.
00:05:22.560 -->
00:05:25.759There really wasn't any there wasn't any evidence.
00:05:25.759 -->
00:05:28.879There were no eyewitness reports, nothing.
00:05:28.879 -->
00:05:30.800That was not a good fit.
00:05:31.439 -->
00:05:36.879Do you do a lot of site visits and reconstructions, things like that, that use demonstratives?
00:05:37.199 -->
00:05:38.000Sometimes.
00:05:38.000 -->
00:05:44.879Most of the time what happens is is the event will have occurred a couple of years ago.
00:05:44.879 -->
00:05:53.920And by the time the attorneys file the complaint and the case starts going forward, it's two or three years old.
00:05:53.920 -->
00:05:54.959Sometimes I do.
00:05:54.959 -->
00:05:56.399I have done that in the past.
00:05:56.399 -->
00:06:09.519I've looked at the situation, gone out and looked at a ski area, but it's it's a little abstract because of the the the temporal aspect of it, you know, it's just separated by a few years.
00:06:09.519 -->
00:06:10.319Right.
00:06:10.560 -->
00:06:15.920How how do you convey things like that to a judge in a bench trial or a jury?
00:06:15.920 -->
00:06:26.000How do you convey things, you know, that are have a lot of complex moving parts, people running into things and you know, the timeline that occurred for an accident?
00:06:26.000 -->
00:06:31.360How do you to lay people communicate that in a way that they understand?
00:06:32.160 -->
00:06:47.519One skill I honed as an engineer, and this has to do with initial conversations, initial sales conversions, projects like in an engineering venue.
00:06:47.519 -->
00:06:52.399Some some projects last for years, you know, three or four years.
00:06:52.399 -->
00:07:05.040Is the one skill I honed was to how to take really complex concepts and be able to explain them in simple, easy to understand language.
00:07:05.040 -->
00:07:11.439And this is this is really key if I'm on a stand and I'm talking to a jury.
00:07:11.839 -->
00:07:15.120Tell me about uh your your preparation method.
00:07:15.120 -->
00:07:22.879So you have a deposition tomorrow, or you have a jury trial, or you know, whatever the case may be, something big's gonna happen.
00:07:22.879 -->
00:07:30.480What are the sorts of things that you like to do to get yourself, A, prepared with the material, but B in the right head space?
00:07:30.480 -->
00:07:38.480I've had experts tell me they like to meditate or they like to, you know, listen to loud music or fast or eat or drink coffee.
00:07:38.480 -->
00:07:43.040Tell me a little bit about your getting ready for the big day routine if you have one.
00:07:43.360 -->
00:07:58.160I think some of my colleagues and and my friends think I'm very strange because I am intrigued by uh the challenge of depositions and essentially going toe-to-toe with attorneys.
00:07:58.160 -->
00:08:04.480So the number one rule of an expert witness is to stay in your lane.
00:08:04.480 -->
00:08:13.600This starts right off the bat with a cli with a case when I write my expert report, because that's my roadmap.
00:08:13.600 -->
00:08:18.879That's my lane that I stay in from start to finish.
00:08:18.879 -->
00:08:39.360One of the things that really honed my skills as a communicator, as a researcher, as a writer, was I had a technical degree, civil engineering technical degree, which is great, which by the way sets me apart from all the other consultants in my field, which there aren't that many.
00:08:39.360 -->
00:08:50.080And then later on in my career at age 51, I went back to school and I got my master's in public administration, which is a social science degree, essentially.
00:08:50.080 -->
00:08:50.639Okay.
00:08:50.639 -->
00:08:58.960And it was two and a half, two years of graduate level research and writing and communication.
00:08:58.960 -->
00:09:09.440What I didn't realize at the time was that master's stacked on top of my engineering degree gave me uh an extraordinary skill set for expert witness work.
00:09:09.440 -->
00:09:14.639So my research, my writing all feeds into my expert report.
00:09:14.639 -->
00:09:19.120And then at depositions, my lane is my report.
00:09:19.440 -->
00:09:20.240Absolutely.
00:09:20.240 -->
00:09:23.440So tell me a little bit about your report writing strategy.
00:09:23.440 -->
00:09:30.480Um, do you like to organize everything with indices or do you use visuals in them?
00:09:30.480 -->
00:09:33.279How do you like to go about writing an expert report?
00:09:33.279 -->
00:09:40.080Do you ever are you ever given a bare bones or any kind of an outline from uh your engaging attorney?
00:09:40.399 -->
00:09:46.240No, I wouldn't even take it because I have a template that I use.
00:09:46.240 -->
00:09:58.320All of my reports look exactly the same, and they contain different information based upon the forensic evidence that's available to the case.
00:09:58.639 -->
00:09:59.279Naturally.
00:09:59.600 -->
00:10:03.279So if there's pictures, pictures are great.
00:10:03.279 -->
00:10:05.679Uh, I'm pretty good at drawing diagrams.
00:10:05.679 -->
00:10:16.480Back in the day, when I was coming up through engineering school, it was pencil on vellum, ink on myler, and it was all handwork.
00:10:16.480 -->
00:10:19.919I came up, that's called coming up on the boards.
00:10:19.919 -->
00:10:21.919I came up on the boards.
00:10:21.919 -->
00:10:25.039So my penmanship is really good, people tell me.
00:10:25.039 -->
00:10:28.720I'm very good at communicating through diagrams.
00:10:28.720 -->
00:10:32.879A lot of times I'll draw, I'll hand draw diagrams and put them in my report.
00:10:32.879 -->
00:10:37.759And I also have another skill that I don't know if this is intrinsic to me.
00:10:37.759 -->
00:10:44.639I know a lot of people don't have this skill, but I have extraordinary visualization skills.
00:10:44.639 -->
00:10:49.840For example, plans are two to like house plans are two-dimensional, right?
00:10:49.840 -->
00:10:58.559Okay, well, I can look at a house plan and I could pull it right up off out of the paper in three dimensions, sprint it around, cut sections through it.
00:10:58.559 -->
00:11:00.799And I just thought, hey, can't everybody do that?
00:11:00.799 -->
00:11:01.919It's like, no.
00:11:01.919 -->
00:11:11.600And it really helps out, especially combined with my hundreds of ski lessons that I've done, thousands of hours I've spent on the ski hills.
00:11:11.600 -->
00:11:22.000Um, it that really helps out in regard to the physics, the mechanics, and the visualization of how things happen on the ski hill.
00:11:22.559 -->
00:11:29.519So those images in the in your expert reports are invaluable and you tend to draw your own.
00:11:29.519 -->
00:11:36.720Do you ever have to contract out any demonstratives or do you take care of all of those diagrams and photographs yourself?
00:11:37.120 -->
00:11:48.320Actually, there's a colleague of mine here in town uh who is uh a forensics crash reconstruction expert.
00:11:48.320 -->
00:11:48.960Wow.
00:11:48.960 -->
00:12:12.080And yeah, and there is this amazing software now out on the that they're using now where he can take a he was showing me a picture of this video of this Dodge truck pulling a trailer, like a 25-foot airstream that went off a dam.
00:12:12.080 -->
00:12:22.240And he reconstructed he they take all the aerial photographs and they and and they have all the images of the cars, it's all in the software.
00:12:22.240 -->
00:12:28.559And he had this movie of this car just going off this bridge, uh, off this dam up in the mountains.
00:12:28.559 -->
00:12:35.919Now, so I went to him and I said, Hey, can we can you make me some like crash test dummies with skis on?
00:12:35.919 -->
00:12:37.440And can we do this together?
00:12:37.440 -->
00:12:38.399Said, yeah.
00:12:38.399 -->
00:12:54.000When I want to do accident reconstruction, if there's enough information to do an accident reconstruction of a collision, I can I can do that and put it up on the screen, and it's so impressive.
00:12:54.399 -->
00:12:55.200That's amazing.
00:12:55.200 -->
00:13:01.200Yeah, and and and I'm sure that that really lands with uh with judges and juries.
00:13:01.200 -->
00:13:09.440Um so you you've mentioned a few times at how small your field is in terms of having experts.
00:13:09.440 -->
00:13:17.440With that, do you find yourself on the other side of a case against the same experts time after time?
00:13:17.440 -->
00:13:24.639Do you develop relationships or at least acquaintanceships with the other experts in your field?
00:13:24.639 -->
00:13:26.159What's that dynamic like?
00:13:26.559 -->
00:13:32.080Honestly, I dedicated myself to working in the snow sports fields.
00:13:32.080 -->
00:13:34.480It it just happened organically.
00:13:34.480 -->
00:13:43.919Uh about three years ago, I realized that the combination of my engineering and my ski experience just merged.
00:13:43.919 -->
00:13:53.919And it was actually at a um an expert winners conference where I was talking to this guy by the name of um James Magravetti.
00:13:53.919 -->
00:14:02.799He's uh he's the education director for Seek, and he really helped me get clear on my direction.
00:14:03.120 -->
00:14:10.480Yeah, it it definitely can help to have somebody, you know, not just show you the ropes, but kind of guide you a little bit.
00:14:10.480 -->
00:14:13.679Um, let's talk a little bit about uh contracts.
00:14:13.679 -->
00:14:20.799So when you have a new engagement, do you have any special terms that you like to put into contracts?
00:14:20.799 -->
00:14:27.759Some people have um, you know, do project rates, some people do hourly rates, some people take a retainer.
00:14:27.759 -->
00:14:31.279Tell me a little bit about how you structure your contracts.
00:14:31.679 -->
00:14:38.960So one of the things that I've done in my career is I am an educator in the engineering industry.
00:14:38.960 -->
00:14:48.240Civil engineers like attorneys and doctors, in order to maintain their licenses, they have to do continuing education units.
00:14:48.240 -->
00:14:57.279Typically, for an engineer, it's 30 contact hours or what they gave PDH, professional development hours, every two years.
00:14:57.279 -->
00:14:58.399But I do that.
00:14:58.399 -->
00:15:01.440I think it's important for me to get back to the industry.
00:15:01.440 -->
00:15:10.000And one of the things, the reason why I bring this up is because one of the things I teach to engineers is professional services contracts.
00:15:10.000 -->
00:15:15.679Years ago, the state where I got my what they call base license was California.
00:15:15.679 -->
00:15:20.000Now the base license is the first engineering license I got.
00:15:20.000 -->
00:15:25.840And by the way, if there's any engineers out there listening, do not ever let your base license expire.
00:15:25.840 -->
00:15:35.120Years ago, when I was practicing in California, California passed a law, and they said that all engineers have to have a written contract for everything they do.
00:15:35.120 -->
00:15:38.320And that was fine because I did anyway.
00:15:38.320 -->
00:15:43.279From a one-page to a full-on master agreement.
00:15:43.279 -->
00:15:48.240Um I wrote all my own contracts, had them vetted by uh attorneys.
00:15:48.240 -->
00:16:12.559So when I got into the expert witness business, it turns out that Seek has a time-tested agreement, canned agreement that you can buy, which I did, and I bought it, and then I went through it and I tweaked it and I made it my own, and it's it's 10 pages long, and it covers everything.
00:16:12.559 -->
00:16:18.240And so I've heard different schools of thought like, ah, you know, just like have a one-page agreement.
00:16:18.240 -->
00:16:22.080It's like, no, I want everything in writing.
00:16:22.080 -->
00:16:30.000I do all my work by the hour on retainer because that's my experience based upon results.
00:16:30.000 -->
00:16:33.039That's the most surefire way for me to get paid.
00:16:33.360 -->
00:16:41.600Have you ever had any difficulty with uh either getting paid or with having an attorney agree to sign your contracts?
00:16:41.600 -->
00:16:42.240Yes.
00:16:42.240 -->
00:16:43.600Tell me a little bit about that.
00:16:43.600 -->
00:16:50.080You don't have to get you don't have to you don't have to name any names, but uh tell me a little bit, you know, in general how that went.
00:16:50.399 -->
00:17:02.399When I was first starting out an engineering addict, I had a a mentor friend of mine who said, Yeah, he sat me down when he's like, you know, he's like, What let me tell you the three phases of this work of consulting work.
00:17:02.399 -->
00:17:03.360I'm like, okay.
00:17:03.360 -->
00:17:06.880So first of all, you can't even believe that people are paying you for what you love to do.
00:17:06.880 -->
00:17:07.440Greg.
00:17:07.440 -->
00:17:08.079Yeah.
00:17:08.079 -->
00:17:15.599So second of all, you start to realize that you gotta get that you're gonna have expenses and you need to make money.
00:17:15.599 -->
00:17:16.960You need to get the money in the door.
00:17:16.960 -->
00:17:18.480And so, okay, what's the third phase?
00:17:18.480 -->
00:17:22.720He says, Well, the third phase that you get to is just a heck with it, just give me the money.
00:17:22.720 -->
00:17:27.359All right, now that's a little bit unjust, but there's a lot of truth in that.
00:17:27.359 -->
00:17:42.880Because right now, every once in a while, a an attorney will get out ahead of me with in regard to you know, some deadline or whatever, and I I know better and that I have to chase them down.
00:17:42.880 -->
00:17:46.319It's just I don't, it's just the nature of the beast, I guess.
00:17:46.319 -->
00:17:46.960Right.
00:17:46.960 -->
00:17:47.519Yeah.
00:17:47.519 -->
00:17:56.319And through my engineering career, I got really good at chasing people down for money because I'm really good at what I do and I'm worth it.
00:17:56.640 -->
00:17:57.759Absolutely.
00:17:57.759 -->
00:18:05.839Speaking of, you know, getting a good engagement, how do you how do you get off on the right foot with a new attorney?
00:18:05.839 -->
00:18:14.400How do you proceed at the beginning of an engagement to make sure that that momentum carries you throughout the entire engagement?
00:18:14.400 -->
00:18:19.359It's a good working relationship between you and the engaging attorney.
00:18:19.680 -->
00:18:23.599Okay, well, there's this word, and the word is hubris.
00:18:23.599 -->
00:18:31.519For those listeners who don't know what hubris means, it's having all the answers, but it's more than that.
00:18:31.519 -->
00:18:36.640It's more like having all the answers and sucking all the oxygen out of the room at the same time.
00:18:36.640 -->
00:18:41.759Those types of attorneys are not a good fit for me.
00:18:41.759 -->
00:18:46.079I know how to answer the ask the right questions to figure that out.
00:18:46.079 -->
00:18:53.200Now, for example, I had an attorney call me up, so I listened to him, you know, and I was prodding in along the way, asking follow-up questions.
00:18:53.200 -->
00:18:54.480I wanted to see where it's come from.
00:18:54.480 -->
00:18:55.599So he said, What do you think?
00:18:55.599 -->
00:18:56.960And I said, Well, that's not it.
00:18:56.960 -->
00:18:59.119And he said, What do you mean that's not it?
00:18:59.119 -->
00:19:00.000I said, It's not it.
00:19:00.000 -->
00:19:02.559He goes, Okay, tell me what it is.
00:19:02.559 -->
00:19:14.400The really intriguing part about working in the snow sports industries, there's very little statute, standing law that regulates snow sports.
00:19:14.400 -->
00:19:15.519Very, very little.
00:19:15.519 -->
00:19:19.839Some states have what they call ski responsibility laws.
00:19:19.839 -->
00:19:36.720Some state like California doesn't the state doesn't have one, but counties within the state that have ski areas in them have them, but they're all kind of squishy in regard to language and they're not consistent.
00:19:36.720 -->
00:19:38.319Okay, so you got that.
00:19:38.319 -->
00:19:40.799Then you have other organizations.
00:19:40.799 -->
00:19:51.519There's two national standards organizations: ASTM, American Standards for Testing and Methods, and then you have ANSI, American National Standards Institute.
00:19:51.519 -->
00:19:59.039ASTM has standards for snow and water sports, mostly equipment oriented.
00:19:59.039 -->
00:20:10.799ANSI has a code called B-77, which is for toes and rope ways, in other words, chair lifts or rope toes, or all that, right?
00:20:10.799 -->
00:20:12.480So that's a different part.
00:20:12.480 -->
00:20:19.440By the way, I was on the ANSI B-77 committee, but that's more for mechanical engineers.
00:20:19.440 -->
00:20:26.880I am a sitting member on the ASTM F-27 Committee for Snow and Water Sports.
00:20:26.880 -->
00:20:30.319But these codes and standards are voluntary.
00:20:30.319 -->
00:20:32.000Compliance is voluntary.
00:20:32.000 -->
00:20:44.720Then you have National Ski Areas Association, which all the ski areas in America block to there's just over 300 ski areas in the United States that belong to the National Ski Areas Association.
00:20:44.720 -->
00:20:47.680And they issue this thing called your responsibility code.
00:20:47.680 -->
00:20:54.559And it's 10 guidelines like ski control, don't ski when you're drunk.
00:20:54.559 -->
00:20:57.359You know, the obvious stuff, right?
00:20:57.359 -->
00:20:59.680Like look uphill before you start.
00:20:59.680 -->
00:21:08.480You need to be able to control your speed and avoid objects, don't ski in closed areas, that kind of stuff.
00:21:08.480 -->
00:21:10.240That too is voluntary.
00:21:10.240 -->
00:21:29.839Then you have the duty of care, which establishes the responsibilities for the parties that are typically involved in a ski case or a snow sports case, such as the ski area, the skier, you know, the skier's the plaintiff, something happens, they see the ski area.
00:21:29.839 -->
00:21:30.319Okay.
00:21:30.319 -->
00:21:42.400The standard of care establishes the responsibilities of each of the parties, every single situation is extraordinarily unique, both from what applies, what doesn't, you know, did they comply with this?
00:21:42.400 -->
00:21:43.839Oh, wait a minute, it's voluntary.
00:21:43.839 -->
00:21:46.240There was so much to this.
00:21:46.240 -->
00:21:50.079You know, let's bring this back around to that case that I was talking about.
00:21:50.079 -->
00:21:58.880Where I told them was as I said, look, fencing, flagging, signage, all that other stuff, that's all applies sometimes.
00:21:58.880 -->
00:22:07.200This is about Standard of care, breach, cause, and my favorite, which is proximate cause or foreseeable cause.
00:22:07.200 -->
00:22:22.880Because typically, what these things come down to is a is a series of decisions made by either the plaintiff or the defendant that creates a situation that somebody just happens to walk into.
00:22:22.880 -->
00:22:24.720It happens over time.
00:22:24.720 -->
00:22:30.720That's a fascinating part of this forensic work that I do is to go and unpack that.
00:22:30.720 -->
00:22:32.160So that's what I told him.
00:22:32.160 -->
00:22:34.799I said, look, we need to establish a standard of care.
00:22:34.799 -->
00:22:36.319You know, what was the breach?
00:22:36.319 -->
00:22:37.279Who breached it?
00:22:37.279 -->
00:22:38.720What was the cause in fact?
00:22:38.720 -->
00:22:40.960What was the foreseeable cause, and who was negligent?
00:22:40.960 -->
00:22:42.240So you know what he did?
00:22:42.240 -->
00:22:43.119What did he do?
00:22:43.119 -->
00:22:44.000He hired me.
00:22:44.000 -->
00:22:53.440Not only that, but and this is the best attorneys that I work with, he did not tell me anything about how he wanted me to write my report.
00:22:53.440 -->
00:23:01.279So those are the best attorneys to work with because they don't have some preconceived conclusion in their head.
00:23:01.599 -->
00:23:02.480Absolutely.
00:23:02.480 -->
00:23:10.079Uh before we wrap up, do you have any last advice for expert witnesses or for attorneys working with experts?
00:23:10.480 -->
00:23:15.279So much of this work is for an expert, what we don't know, we don't know.
00:23:15.279 -->
00:23:18.880To me, that's right in my sweet spot.
00:23:18.880 -->
00:23:26.480But it does take a lot of courage because the lessons to learn are can be tough at times.
00:23:26.480 -->
00:23:36.720And just for one example, in a deposition, never ever offer anything outside of just answering the question on the table.
00:23:36.720 -->
00:23:45.599I had the opposing attorney, they issued this opinion, a rebuttal to something that I had done, and it completely supported our position.
00:23:45.599 -->
00:23:47.279I mean, it was like a gift.
00:23:47.279 -->
00:23:50.240Like, oh man, I you know, I got this thing in my pocket.
00:23:50.240 -->
00:23:53.359And in the deposition, they they kind of grazed it.
00:23:53.359 -->
00:23:55.119I'm like, all right, here's my opportunity.
00:23:55.119 -->
00:24:01.039And nope, I brought this up, and the attorney's like, oh, well, tell me more about that, you know?
00:24:01.039 -->
00:24:16.160And overall, it bolstered our our the conclusion, but it opened the door for them for a classic deposition tactic, which to just, I mean, they went off on it for like two hours that didn't even need to be there.
00:24:16.160 -->
00:24:21.440And, you know, they were just trying to wear me down and get me to make a mistake, which didn't happen.
00:24:21.440 -->
00:24:32.480But at the end, the attorney on marketing goes, you know what, you did a really good job, but it says, never ever offer anything that's oh my sage advice.
00:24:32.720 -->
00:24:33.039Mr.
00:24:33.039 -->
00:24:35.839Wall, thank you so much for joining me here today.
00:24:36.079 -->
00:24:36.720You're welcome.
00:24:36.720 -->
00:24:37.839Thanks for having me.
00:24:38.079 -->
00:24:43.680And as always, thank you to our listeners for joining us for another edition of Engaging Experts.
00:24:43.680 -->
00:24:44.480Cheers.
00:24:45.039 -->
00:24:48.000Thank you for listening to our podcast, Engaging Experts.
00:24:48.000 -->
00:24:52.319Our show notes are available on our website, roundtable group.com.
