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All right, welcome into the Energy Tech
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podcast. [music] I am your host here
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today, Mike Fludis, right here live at
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Intelec the fall session of course
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happens in October right here in lovely
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Odessa, Texas. I guess we could call
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that maybe part of the heart of the
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Permian, we could say. But with me is a
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great guest, a friend, a colleague
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of course Jonathan Hodel, president of
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Electron Automation. Jonathan, it's good
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to have you on the show, man.
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>> It's always good to see you, Mike. Glad
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you came out to see us out here in the
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out in the field here.
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>> Yeah, well, you know, it's it's you
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know, it it's it's part of oil and gas,
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you know, the Energy Tech podcast of
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course, our roots are of course in
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energy, oil and gas and the who can do
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that without being in the Permian? Now
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we do represent other areas, you know,
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we've got constantly guests from the
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Marcellus the Utica play here in the
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in Texas, South Texas as well and of
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course in Louisiana, the Haynesville,
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Oklahoma and the Scoop, anywhere really.
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But let's talk about why you're here,
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you know, Jonathan, it'd be really good,
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man. Let me get your take real quick on
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Arlen Nipper's keynote and kind of what
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you caught there a little bit and what
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brings you to Intelec this year. This
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part at least the fall seminar.
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>> Okay. So
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Arlen is always fun to listen to, right?
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He tells the story and it's really
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important for people to understand what
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MQTT came from and that it wasn't built
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for IT, it was built for OT, right?
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Um but one thing that struck me is we're
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still
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I've still heard him evangelizing it and
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I've been a huge fan
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ever since he brought it over helped
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bring it over to Ignition, like
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8 9 years ago. Um
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but the big vendors of our hardware, our
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RTUs,
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and they're still not embracing MQTT,
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and it's like, well, how hard do we have
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to
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um
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bend their arm to like build it in, but
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you know, we have solutions in edge
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technology and so forth, but uh
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>> think you're right. Um you know, one of
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the things that we're always uh striving
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for is to get our context from the edge,
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right? Uh when So, when we're talking
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about especially MQTT thrives on uh not
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just the fact that it is a smaller
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payload, um it is a I don't know, what's
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the word? Uh prolific or ubiquitous
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ubiquitous protocol, but just the idea
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that you if you want to get that data
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with context at the edge, what you're
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hoping for, and I think you maybe you
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can talk with me about this one, is
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you want
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what I call some legacy devices or
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devices, especially when it comes to
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like, let's just pick on one, flow
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computers,
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you know, sometimes there's not an
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embracing there of edge protocols like
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MQTT, and I think is that kind of the
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heartburn that you're talking about?
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>> Yeah, and I think some of these vendors
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are still relying on their proprietary
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closed-source
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protocols to they think they're still
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going to lock people in, but people
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really want to be free of that, and have
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not speak a secret code that only that
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device
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speaks, like, you know, we need
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open standards, like
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open is winning, right?
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>> Yeah.
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>> Just not in our industry yet.
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>> Yeah, I think you're right. Um you know,
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again, if if we're leaning if we focus
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on what we talk about um you know, uh a
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flow computer, right? So, you have this
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specific protocol, it's almost like
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being on your own island, and you got to
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take information from that island when
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the reality is you want to already build
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context there at the edge. We want to
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assemble the payload. We want it to be
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lightweight. Especially in oil and gas,
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you want it to report by exception.
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You're looking for a lightweight
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protocol. And then you want to carry the
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context over
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into your data orchestration layers or
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if you're going to use that further on
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down, let's say in your cloud space. And
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I think right now, Jonathan, there's
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such a push to have that context and
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especially with like MCP and leveraging
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that side and as a a piece to the
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industrial OT side, you would hope that
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what you're looking for is something
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that plays really well in that space,
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you know?
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>> So, [snorts]
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you know,
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the unified name space has becoming
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popular in our industry and people are
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evangelizing it and saying what are the
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benefits of this thing and
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there are many benefits. One of them is
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just
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reducing the noise in your SCADA and
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then your you know, what are you feeding
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the SCADA to?
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>> Yeah.
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>> But
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in
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with modern technology,
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not having a unified name space is
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fatal.
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>> Yeah.
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>> Because not only can a human a human
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can't understand your data model. A data
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scientist has no clue.
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Well, guess what? If you have a nice
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unified name space, AI can absolutely
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understand what's going on. Like
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that context
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and having a semantic name space is
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critical.
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>> Yeah, and and
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I think you're right. It it's not just
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that as the semantics that carries over
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uh for someone that's in data science,
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but it also makes you hit on this
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already, which is AI readiness.
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Um you know, right the it's not it's not
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I think you and I both agree. It's not
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as simple as okay, we plug it in and
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it's AI ready. It's not like a 5-minute
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meal in the microwave. It it it is going
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to require some work. However,
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when it does have context at the edge
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and when you are carrying that over
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across the unified namespace, it's
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almost to the point where you have less
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of an ETL. So, I don't have to do tons
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of extraction, transforming, and
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loading. I can essentially carry that
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same messaging, that same context over,
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and I don't have to roll up my sleeves
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that much that much and really pour
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dollars into a data engineering team,
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right?
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>> Yeah, and um
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>> [snorts]
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>> in our industry, we usually trail back
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trail behind, you know, 5 or 10 years
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modern technology, but we can't do that
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with
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the innovations that are happening even
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like on a monthly basis, like how much
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more intelligent the models are.
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Like
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next year is going to be pretty shocking
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the things people are going to be doing
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and those that are like a year behind
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are going to be like, "Okay, I guess
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I'll start paying attention." But um
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it's going to be a fun year, for sure.
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2027, the things that are going to
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happen. It's going faster and faster.
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>> Yeah, we're going to talk about what
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you've been up to. Before I do that, I
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want to make I want to say something,
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you know, at the beginning of the year,
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actually before the year started, we do
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a on the Energy Tech podcast, we do some
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predictions. I had these top five. One
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of my predictions was the rise of the
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agent and I think that was spot on. I'm
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giving credit to myself just one time,
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one little selfish plug for me.
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I knew that this was going to be the
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rise of the agent and I didn't realize
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it was going to mean that people were on
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the news, especially when you start
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talking about OpenAI and Anthropic and
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hacking hugging face and you're seeing
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all these agents going rogue, you could
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say.
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But there's lots of good coming out of
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that. And having said that, I do want to
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ask Jonathan what you've been up to in
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the agent space now with ignition.
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>> Mhm.
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So, I've been a AI denier for a while
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cuz
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>> Yeah.
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>> I'm I've lived through a lot of hype
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cycles of the Internet of Things or the
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inter- Not the Internet of Things, it's
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now the Industrial Internet of Things.
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>> Yeah.
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>> Like how does that really affect my
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day-to-day in the oil field?
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>> Yeah.
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>> Um
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but over the last 3 months, man, I've
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uh been powering up and uh
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right now
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um adding MCP server to Ignition is one
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of the big things that happened last
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month and
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I've gone from a couple months ago to
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thinking how my job was going to be to
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add context to agents, like that's going
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to be my thing. I'm going to be able to
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prototype this to
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last month it's like this thing can do
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my job, especially if I'm here with it.
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And leveraging it.
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>> Yeah.
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>> To like it's going fast. So, right now
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I'm building
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SCADA systems with with cloud code and
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it's not just a little bit powerful, it
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is
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truly profound. So,
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and I think we have to evolve a little
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bit to get past like, okay, it's amazing
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with code. Is it amazing with my data
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giving me insights? I think that's still
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evolving a little bit, but
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>> man, it's moving fast.
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>> Yeah, so I I you you you and I talked a
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little bit before, you know, like got
00:09:10.200 --> 00:09:12.070
you on the show and
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you know, I I realized that there's some
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people that are saying, well,
00:09:16.160 --> 00:09:18.150
this could replace
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a SCADA developer
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at some level.
00:09:21.440 --> 00:09:22.829
Um
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I don't I don't think it it'll replace
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the SCADA developer in my mind. Um
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here's why.
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A SCADA developer, especially a great
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one, good ones, I mean, you know what
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good looks like
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for your client. And what- in part of
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the industrial space you're in, in this
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case it will say energy. Energy oil and
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gas, if you're you know what good looks
00:09:41.760 --> 00:09:45.510
like. You know what a good solution is
00:09:45.520 --> 00:09:47.550
for your customer, whether they're in
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the production space, upstream in
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drilling, if you're doing something in
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completions, if you're working out of
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flowback application in ignition, if
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you're delivering something in
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production and midstream and downstream
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operations, like you know what good
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looks like.
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Anthropic doesn't know what good looks
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like.
00:10:06.880 --> 00:10:09.750
And so, I still think what this is going
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to do is this is going to optimize
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and it is going to augment the role.
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This means that
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Electron automation doesn't have to
00:10:19.200 --> 00:10:20.950
bring in six
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engine- junior engineers, but Jonathan
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can do the work of six
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production I mean six junior engineers.
00:10:28.600 --> 00:10:29.790
I think that's what I'm getting at. The
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so, I think there's a heavy augmentation
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when it comes to what's possible inside
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of that and leveraging ignition along
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with things like Astro 6 inside of Open
00:10:39.200 --> 00:10:40.910
AI and so on, you know.
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>> Yeah, and um
00:10:44.480 --> 00:10:45.829
there shouldn't be
00:10:45.839 --> 00:10:49.190
a huge fear, an overwhelming fear of it
00:10:49.200 --> 00:10:52.350
taking the jobs because
00:10:52.360 --> 00:10:53.710
we [clears throat] always struggle with
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the massive timelines and the massive
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amount of effort for our projects. So,
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>> Yeah.
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>> if we can cut off
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and make them 30% faster, we're just
00:11:03.839 --> 00:11:05.630
going to be doing more projects.
00:11:05.640 --> 00:11:06.110
>> Right.
00:11:06.120 --> 00:11:06.710
>> Because
00:11:06.720 --> 00:11:08.870
we've we've always needed
00:11:08.880 --> 00:11:11.510
that better SCADA host system. We've
00:11:11.520 --> 00:11:13.430
needed that upgrade or the that new
00:11:13.440 --> 00:11:14.910
functionality.
00:11:14.920 --> 00:11:16.590
We'll just be able to get to it faster.
00:11:16.600 --> 00:11:17.510
So,
00:11:17.520 --> 00:11:18.990
I'm not sure if I'm going to be making
00:11:19.000 --> 00:11:21.070
more money, but I will be doing a lot
00:11:21.080 --> 00:11:22.990
more things in the shorter amount of
00:11:23.000 --> 00:11:23.870
time.
00:11:23.880 --> 00:11:25.550
>> Yeah. Well, I think you're right. So, I
00:11:25.560 --> 00:11:27.070
use the word a lot. I've I've used this
00:11:27.080 --> 00:11:28.470
word. I stopped using it, but it's a
00:11:28.480 --> 00:11:30.310
shorter time to value.
00:11:30.320 --> 00:11:30.710
>> Yes.
00:11:30.720 --> 00:11:32.270
>> Uh so, I think that's the key right
00:11:32.280 --> 00:11:36.070
there is it is a shorter time to value
00:11:36.080 --> 00:11:38.430
if we can do a lot of those development
00:11:38.440 --> 00:11:39.710
pieces.
00:11:39.720 --> 00:11:42.230
Uh, you know, I I I did, you know,
00:11:42.240 --> 00:11:43.510
I don't want to
00:11:43.520 --> 00:11:44.990
I'll say it this way. You know, I I
00:11:45.000 --> 00:11:47.510
heard Walker Reynolds mention comment.
00:11:47.520 --> 00:11:48.910
He said, "Well, who needs Ignition if
00:11:48.920 --> 00:11:51.270
you're doing this?" Well,
00:11:51.280 --> 00:11:53.110
I don't think there's a replacement
00:11:53.120 --> 00:11:55.190
there. I think it's more again is
00:11:55.200 --> 00:11:59.230
augmentation of that piece and now a
00:11:59.240 --> 00:12:02.430
customer doesn't have to spend hundreds
00:12:02.440 --> 00:12:04.870
of thousands cuz that's what it can take
00:12:04.880 --> 00:12:05.870
to
00:12:05.880 --> 00:12:08.430
really develop something that that you
00:12:08.440 --> 00:12:10.830
can see and they can take into
00:12:10.840 --> 00:12:13.150
production a lot quicker, especially if
00:12:13.160 --> 00:12:14.710
they have someone like you, Jonathan,
00:12:14.720 --> 00:12:17.230
with you, your team doing something and
00:12:17.240 --> 00:12:19.310
you've augmented yourself with um
00:12:19.320 --> 00:12:20.630
Claude.
00:12:20.640 --> 00:12:22.350
>> Yeah. Um,
00:12:22.360 --> 00:12:24.270
you know, on the downside maybe a little
00:12:24.280 --> 00:12:25.470
bit. I was
00:12:25.480 --> 00:12:26.990
Arlen walked by and
00:12:27.000 --> 00:12:29.110
we were talking about AI a little bit
00:12:29.120 --> 00:12:30.110
and
00:12:30.120 --> 00:12:31.510
he did mention, "It's like, yeah, I can
00:12:31.520 --> 00:12:33.310
build some things a lot faster, but is
00:12:33.320 --> 00:12:35.790
it production ready?" I'm like, "Yeah,
00:12:35.800 --> 00:12:37.990
it means that first 80%
00:12:38.000 --> 00:12:38.670
>> Yeah.
00:12:38.680 --> 00:12:41.110
>> you can do that lightning fast, but that
00:12:41.120 --> 00:12:42.230
last
00:12:42.240 --> 00:12:45.710
20% of really refining it
00:12:45.720 --> 00:12:48.670
um to production readiness is
00:12:48.680 --> 00:12:50.070
it could be harder
00:12:50.080 --> 00:12:50.670
>> Yeah.
00:12:50.680 --> 00:12:52.950
>> depending on how complicated that your
00:12:52.960 --> 00:12:54.030
tools
00:12:54.040 --> 00:12:56.270
made it for you. But, um
00:12:56.280 --> 00:12:57.829
I think it's exciting either way.
00:12:57.839 --> 00:12:59.829
>> Yeah, so let's stay on the excitement
00:12:59.839 --> 00:13:01.630
side. Tell me what you've been up to.
00:13:01.640 --> 00:13:03.430
Um, I know that, you know, you've been
00:13:03.440 --> 00:13:05.870
working on the sidelines and I want to
00:13:05.880 --> 00:13:08.510
qualify what I'm asking. Um, you know, I
00:13:08.520 --> 00:13:10.550
know we're here at Intellect, but
00:13:10.560 --> 00:13:12.350
Jonathan's also going to be uh
00:13:12.360 --> 00:13:15.190
presenting at IOGC, the Ignition Oil and
00:13:15.200 --> 00:13:16.710
Gas Collective
00:13:16.720 --> 00:13:19.110
there in San Antonio. Optimation will be
00:13:19.120 --> 00:13:21.870
a a sponsor, the Energy Tech podcast.
00:13:21.880 --> 00:13:24.630
And um you know, Jonathan, you're going
00:13:24.640 --> 00:13:26.230
to be talking a little bit about what
00:13:26.240 --> 00:13:27.710
you're doing there. Give kind of give us
00:13:27.720 --> 00:13:28.870
a sneak peek of what you'll be
00:13:28.880 --> 00:13:30.470
presenting at I O [clears throat] G C.
00:13:30.480 --> 00:13:32.790
>> So, the oil and gas collective, we've
00:13:32.800 --> 00:13:35.470
been around for about 10 years. Um,
00:13:35.480 --> 00:13:38.230
we're, you know, owners of oil and oil
00:13:38.240 --> 00:13:40.710
and gas ignition systems wanted to talk
00:13:40.720 --> 00:13:42.030
and share
00:13:42.040 --> 00:13:43.790
share what their journeys, right? Their
00:13:43.800 --> 00:13:45.299
struggles and their awesome stuff.
00:13:45.309 --> 00:13:45.790
[clears throat]
00:13:45.800 --> 00:13:46.310
>> Yeah.
00:13:46.320 --> 00:13:47.390
>> Um,
00:13:47.400 --> 00:13:48.510
but yeah,
00:13:48.520 --> 00:13:50.790
looking forward to a couple weeks from
00:13:50.800 --> 00:13:53.710
now.
00:13:53.720 --> 00:13:55.870
So, we pulled the group and they're
00:13:55.880 --> 00:13:56.870
like, "Well, what do you want to see
00:13:56.880 --> 00:13:58.190
next? What do you want to see next?"
00:13:58.200 --> 00:13:59.910
It's always like, "We want to see more
00:13:59.920 --> 00:14:02.230
ignition. We want to see more flexible
00:14:02.240 --> 00:14:04.830
responsive HMI. Maybe want want to talk
00:14:04.840 --> 00:14:06.990
about Ignition Cloud Name Space."
00:14:07.000 --> 00:14:08.190
>> And
00:14:08.200 --> 00:14:10.350
the demand for AI is like, "We want to
00:14:10.360 --> 00:14:12.070
hear more about how people are using
00:14:12.080 --> 00:14:13.830
AI." Um,
00:14:13.840 --> 00:14:16.510
and it was kind of not intentional, but
00:14:16.520 --> 00:14:19.470
this particular show is
00:14:19.480 --> 00:14:23.470
about 70% different AI offerings from
00:14:23.480 --> 00:14:25.310
being able to
00:14:25.320 --> 00:14:27.350
get intelligence,
00:14:27.360 --> 00:14:28.030
um,
00:14:28.040 --> 00:14:29.910
you know, suggestions from AI while
00:14:29.920 --> 00:14:32.390
you're inside of Ignition or doing
00:14:32.400 --> 00:14:37.390
machine learning, um, AI uh, analysis,
00:14:37.400 --> 00:14:39.510
running AI on the edge, and then I just
00:14:39.520 --> 00:14:41.590
kind of accidentally
00:14:41.600 --> 00:14:43.310
fully built out my
00:14:43.320 --> 00:14:46.590
Ignition MCP uh, um, month or two ago
00:14:46.600 --> 00:14:46.990
>> Yeah.
00:14:47.000 --> 00:14:48.990
>> with Claude. You know, AI helped me
00:14:49.000 --> 00:14:50.750
build that out. I would have never done
00:14:50.760 --> 00:14:54.070
that without. But, it is so powerful.
00:14:54.080 --> 00:14:56.190
So, I'm going to present on that. And
00:14:56.200 --> 00:14:58.390
I'm this week I've been leveraging it so
00:14:58.400 --> 00:15:00.990
much. It's like I can't do without this
00:15:01.000 --> 00:15:01.710
now.
00:15:01.720 --> 00:15:02.150
>> Yeah.
00:15:02.160 --> 00:15:03.390
>> So, I think a lot of people, if they're
00:15:03.400 --> 00:15:05.590
not already already secretly doing it
00:15:05.600 --> 00:15:06.990
and not telling us that they're doing
00:15:07.000 --> 00:15:09.790
it, like, this is this is next.
00:15:09.800 --> 00:15:12.415
>> No, I think you're right. And and uh,
00:15:12.425 --> 00:15:12.670
>> [clears throat]
00:15:12.680 --> 00:15:13.829
>> I oh,
00:15:13.839 --> 00:15:15.630
you don't want to miss that. So, I
00:15:15.640 --> 00:15:17.590
realize, you know, this is in In-N-Out,
00:15:17.600 --> 00:15:19.870
but it in October, you know, that at the
00:15:19.880 --> 00:15:22.510
22nd in San Antonio, if you're an
00:15:22.520 --> 00:15:24.950
Ignition user, again, you can attend,
00:15:24.960 --> 00:15:29.910
sign up at the IOGC website. Um and
00:15:29.920 --> 00:15:33.030
>> Ignition oil and gas collective.org.
00:15:33.040 --> 00:15:34.550
>> There you go. Ignition oil and gas
00:15:34.560 --> 00:15:36.150
collective.org.
00:15:36.160 --> 00:15:39.110
And you can sign up there and there's
00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:40.750
plenty There's still plenty seats. You
00:15:40.760 --> 00:15:42.870
can grab one and
00:15:42.880 --> 00:15:45.510
join and and see what's happening. And
00:15:45.520 --> 00:15:47.910
again, it's putting AI to use in the
00:15:47.920 --> 00:15:50.190
industrial space. It's not this
00:15:50.200 --> 00:15:52.070
unattainable single agent that I'm
00:15:52.080 --> 00:15:54.070
running on my laptop because everybody
00:15:54.080 --> 00:15:55.230
You know, Jonathan, a lot of people are
00:15:55.240 --> 00:15:57.070
doing that. I think if I go to YouTube
00:15:57.080 --> 00:16:00.470
and I look at these big names like
00:16:00.480 --> 00:16:02.670
Mark What's that guy's name? Martel? You
00:16:02.680 --> 00:16:04.350
got all kinds of people that put out all
00:16:04.360 --> 00:16:07.110
these tools. They're really cool, but
00:16:07.120 --> 00:16:08.510
they're not enterprise. They're not
00:16:08.520 --> 00:16:11.230
industrial. So, they're not They're just
00:16:11.240 --> 00:16:14.030
like, "Oh, look how I made my my small
00:16:14.040 --> 00:16:15.430
business better."
00:16:15.440 --> 00:16:15.710
>> Mhm.
00:16:15.720 --> 00:16:17.870
>> Uh that's great, but that doesn't fit
00:16:17.880 --> 00:16:19.830
what we're talking about, which is how
00:16:19.840 --> 00:16:22.670
can I deploy something like Claude MCP
00:16:22.680 --> 00:16:24.950
or Claude code to leverage what I'm
00:16:24.960 --> 00:16:27.870
doing for actual industrial critical
00:16:27.880 --> 00:16:29.829
infrastructure customers? That doesn't
00:16:29.839 --> 00:16:31.030
mean
00:16:31.040 --> 00:16:33.829
uh have it take over a process. I don't
00:16:33.839 --> 00:16:35.710
think we're We're both saying We're not
00:16:35.720 --> 00:16:38.990
saying go go deploy Claude to go in your
00:16:39.000 --> 00:16:41.790
closed-loop uh you know,
00:16:41.800 --> 00:16:44.590
um deterministic part stamping machine.
00:16:44.600 --> 00:16:46.230
We're not saying that.
00:16:46.240 --> 00:16:48.829
What we are saying What I'm saying is we
00:16:48.839 --> 00:16:50.670
can connect and we can leverage data
00:16:50.680 --> 00:16:52.430
that's let's say inside of Ignition for
00:16:52.440 --> 00:16:55.190
things like alarm rationalization, alarm
00:16:55.200 --> 00:16:57.790
management. I want to use it to get me a
00:16:57.800 --> 00:17:00.910
really good determination for flow. I
00:17:00.920 --> 00:17:03.230
want to look at another one I think has
00:17:03.240 --> 00:17:06.189
has someone needs to work on is
00:17:06.199 --> 00:17:08.230
nominations for oil and gas, the
00:17:08.240 --> 00:17:10.110
delivery of markets and predictability
00:17:10.120 --> 00:17:12.429
based on production and downstream
00:17:12.439 --> 00:17:14.350
production in one side, which is
00:17:14.360 --> 00:17:15.870
production, and and other side, which is
00:17:15.880 --> 00:17:18.309
delivering to the market and predicting
00:17:18.319 --> 00:17:20.429
what that looks like. That's to me is a
00:17:20.439 --> 00:17:22.230
good home run or an easy win for
00:17:22.240 --> 00:17:24.870
somebody on the MCP side.
00:17:24.880 --> 00:17:25.829
>> I don't want to give away ideas. I'm
00:17:25.839 --> 00:17:26.470
just letting you know.
00:17:26.480 --> 00:17:30.470
>> Yeah. Um so, couple things there cuz you
00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:32.230
know, we're not running this on a
00:17:32.240 --> 00:17:33.750
production system, obviously.
00:17:33.760 --> 00:17:34.230
>> Yeah.
00:17:34.240 --> 00:17:36.510
>> Um we can build a lot of tools and
00:17:36.520 --> 00:17:39.630
features in a sandbox that's not even
00:17:39.640 --> 00:17:42.430
close to the customer's infrastructure.
00:17:42.440 --> 00:17:42.870
>> Yeah.
00:17:42.880 --> 00:17:44.990
>> Refine those products and like, okay,
00:17:45.000 --> 00:17:47.710
I'm moving this over. This is a crazy
00:17:47.720 --> 00:17:50.710
showstopper. But um maybe question for
00:17:50.720 --> 00:17:51.270
you.
00:17:51.280 --> 00:17:52.110
>> Yeah.
00:17:52.120 --> 00:17:54.310
>> What uh you had a prediction for what
00:17:54.320 --> 00:17:56.230
last year was going to be agents, right?
00:17:56.240 --> 00:17:57.470
>> Yeah, rise of the agent.
00:17:57.480 --> 00:17:58.870
>> What do you think the theme is this
00:17:58.880 --> 00:17:59.750
year?
00:17:59.760 --> 00:18:02.717
>> Oh man, you know,
00:18:02.727 --> 00:18:02.870
>> [clears throat]
00:18:02.880 --> 00:18:03.550
>> uh
00:18:03.560 --> 00:18:04.790
you know,
00:18:04.800 --> 00:18:07.990
I think if if I have to predict
00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:09.510
something that I think I'm going to stop
00:18:09.520 --> 00:18:10.790
I'll talk about it again in another
00:18:10.800 --> 00:18:12.150
quarter.
00:18:12.160 --> 00:18:15.510
I think that we're going to see
00:18:15.520 --> 00:18:16.350
s-
00:18:16.360 --> 00:18:18.070
your local
00:18:18.080 --> 00:18:20.870
cap- the first to launch a local large
00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:23.830
language model that I can get
00:18:23.840 --> 00:18:25.430
and I don't have to I don't have to have
00:18:25.440 --> 00:18:28.030
a full subscription. I can have that run
00:18:28.040 --> 00:18:30.590
locally. I think we're going to see
00:18:30.600 --> 00:18:32.670
markets for local
00:18:32.680 --> 00:18:34.590
large language models
00:18:34.600 --> 00:18:36.670
and you're going to have tiers. So, if I
00:18:36.680 --> 00:18:39.710
want a local lar- large language model
00:18:39.720 --> 00:18:42.510
for a personal use like finance or I
00:18:42.520 --> 00:18:44.190
want to use this for home,
00:18:44.200 --> 00:18:45.550
I see that.
00:18:45.560 --> 00:18:47.990
If I want to use it for a medium-size
00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:49.630
thing in my business, I think you're
00:18:49.640 --> 00:18:51.590
going to see that. Do you want
00:18:51.600 --> 00:18:52.870
enterprise? I think I think we're going
00:18:52.880 --> 00:18:54.750
to move to that. Uh
00:18:54.760 --> 00:18:57.310
you know, just because I I think when
00:18:57.320 --> 00:18:59.390
you start talking about large, these
00:18:59.400 --> 00:19:01.310
frontiers, you know, these the
00:19:01.320 --> 00:19:03.550
hyperscalers and frontiers,
00:19:03.560 --> 00:19:05.470
yeah, they've got it locked down, but in
00:19:05.480 --> 00:19:07.750
the market you have um the makers of
00:19:07.760 --> 00:19:10.310
things like genspark.ai,
00:19:10.320 --> 00:19:11.950
you have the makers of of course
00:19:11.960 --> 00:19:14.510
perplexities there with a wrapper.
00:19:14.520 --> 00:19:18.190
You've got Kimikay 3 and I think what
00:19:18.200 --> 00:19:19.910
they're going to offer up is hey,
00:19:19.920 --> 00:19:21.830
instead of going to a big model, why
00:19:21.840 --> 00:19:24.630
don't you join and have a smaller local
00:19:24.640 --> 00:19:25.630
model?
00:19:25.640 --> 00:19:26.950
That's what I think. All in the name of
00:19:26.960 --> 00:19:28.470
security, too, when you really think
00:19:28.480 --> 00:19:28.950
about it.
00:19:28.960 --> 00:19:30.590
>> Right. And not putting our business
00:19:30.600 --> 00:19:32.750
intelligence out out on the internet,
00:19:32.760 --> 00:19:35.310
right? Which is a hard requirement for
00:19:35.320 --> 00:19:37.550
our industry. So, that's been holding us
00:19:37.560 --> 00:19:40.270
back for a while because it's just like
00:19:40.280 --> 00:19:42.390
the frontier models are blowing people's
00:19:42.400 --> 00:19:44.910
minds, but
00:19:44.920 --> 00:19:46.430
we can't
00:19:46.440 --> 00:19:47.790
use that, right? So.
00:19:47.800 --> 00:19:50.030
>> you're right. Yeah, I think if you
00:19:50.040 --> 00:19:51.790
you know, not to get off into a tangent
00:19:51.800 --> 00:19:52.950
here, but when you really think about
00:19:52.960 --> 00:19:55.230
it, if I go to a frontier model,
00:19:55.240 --> 00:19:56.790
at the end of the day, who's supporting
00:19:56.800 --> 00:19:59.110
that are the Nvidia and those companies.
00:19:59.120 --> 00:20:00.670
So, there's there's really a loss of
00:20:00.680 --> 00:20:01.870
revenue there when you really think
00:20:01.880 --> 00:20:03.310
about it. If you were just to pull that
00:20:03.320 --> 00:20:04.350
back,
00:20:04.360 --> 00:20:06.990
the look the consumer doesn't uphold
00:20:07.000 --> 00:20:10.030
that market, but what they can uphold is
00:20:10.040 --> 00:20:14.590
a smaller, less a more a model that
00:20:14.600 --> 00:20:17.550
works just as good, less expensive, and
00:20:17.560 --> 00:20:19.470
I can hold onto it locally.
00:20:19.480 --> 00:20:20.830
The same way you hold onto your phone
00:20:20.840 --> 00:20:22.030
device.
00:20:22.040 --> 00:20:24.830
>> Well, I think some very smart companies
00:20:24.840 --> 00:20:28.030
like Nvidia and Microsoft are seeing
00:20:28.040 --> 00:20:29.790
the writing on the wall and seeing this
00:20:29.800 --> 00:20:32.750
market that's that's developing for
00:20:32.760 --> 00:20:35.190
local AI for all consumers, but
00:20:35.200 --> 00:20:37.310
businesses and
00:20:37.320 --> 00:20:39.230
I think it's coming coming quick.
00:20:39.240 --> 00:20:40.550
>> Yeah. And
00:20:40.560 --> 00:20:41.350
>> it's coming quick.
00:20:41.360 --> 00:20:42.950
>> It is and
00:20:42.960 --> 00:20:44.150
you know,
00:20:44.160 --> 00:20:45.670
I I also think that we're going to see
00:20:45.680 --> 00:20:47.870
more
00:20:47.880 --> 00:20:49.670
software competitor I think we're going
00:20:49.680 --> 00:20:51.830
to see other competitors in our space
00:20:51.840 --> 00:20:53.590
that are
00:20:53.600 --> 00:20:57.150
I don't know if man, you know, like I
00:20:57.160 --> 00:20:59.990
love Ignition as a product. I just I see
00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:02.590
people that are getting smart about it
00:21:02.600 --> 00:21:03.870
and and you're seeing some
00:21:03.880 --> 00:21:05.510
competitiveness
00:21:05.520 --> 00:21:08.830
Um, that space, you know, in in terms of
00:21:08.840 --> 00:21:10.390
um, I wouldn't say middleware, but we'll
00:21:10.400 --> 00:21:13.190
say data orchestration and IoT products.
00:21:13.200 --> 00:21:13.950
I think you're going to see a
00:21:13.960 --> 00:21:15.550
combination of those that are start
00:21:15.560 --> 00:21:17.550
coming. Uh, give me an example, if I
00:21:17.560 --> 00:21:21.390
look at somebody like Highbyte, HiveMQ,
00:21:21.400 --> 00:21:24.670
uh, Fuse, Flow, they all have this
00:21:24.680 --> 00:21:26.150
orchestration piece that they operate
00:21:26.160 --> 00:21:27.630
in. Barbara, everybody's got these
00:21:27.640 --> 00:21:30.070
orchestration pieces. I see that in
00:21:30.080 --> 00:21:33.510
combination with an IoT SCADA platform.
00:21:33.520 --> 00:21:35.350
Yeah, it's just one of my thinking.
00:21:35.360 --> 00:21:35.950
>> Yeah.
00:21:35.960 --> 00:21:38.270
>> I actually have a had a talk uh,
00:21:38.280 --> 00:21:40.670
scheduled yesterday with Flow Fuse and I
00:21:40.680 --> 00:21:42.470
had to push that another week cuz I was
00:21:42.480 --> 00:21:44.070
like, you know,
00:21:44.080 --> 00:21:46.830
I I love Node-RED, but I need to get up
00:21:46.840 --> 00:21:48.750
to date on what you guys are doing and
00:21:48.760 --> 00:21:49.230
>> Yeah.
00:21:49.240 --> 00:21:51.670
>> I think there's a huge fit probably in
00:21:51.680 --> 00:21:53.430
some of the things I'm doing, especially
00:21:53.440 --> 00:21:55.150
orchestrating. So, that's one of the
00:21:55.160 --> 00:21:57.350
drawbacks of Node-RED, it's like, okay,
00:21:57.360 --> 00:21:58.950
you can customize
00:21:58.960 --> 00:22:00.150
you can have custom code running
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:01.990
everywhere, but that's not that doesn't
00:22:02.000 --> 00:22:04.710
really maintain very well, so.
00:22:04.720 --> 00:22:05.390
>> Yeah.
00:22:05.400 --> 00:22:06.070
>> You know, the other thing, too,
00:22:06.080 --> 00:22:07.190
Jonathan, I don't know what's going to
00:22:07.200 --> 00:22:08.630
be done. I want to ask you this, maybe
00:22:08.640 --> 00:22:10.030
you know. One of the things that's been
00:22:10.040 --> 00:22:11.870
on my mind is if we're going to run to
00:22:11.880 --> 00:22:14.390
edge compute and other things, there
00:22:14.400 --> 00:22:15.950
seems to be a limit, especially when
00:22:15.960 --> 00:22:17.990
you're familiar with like a Java heap,
00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:19.910
which is the sizing inside of these edge
00:22:19.920 --> 00:22:21.350
devices, so they create all these little
00:22:21.360 --> 00:22:23.030
sidecar
00:22:23.040 --> 00:22:24.390
products.
00:22:24.400 --> 00:22:26.470
They're they're kind of powerful and I'm
00:22:26.480 --> 00:22:28.430
wondering if that's going to get better,
00:22:28.440 --> 00:22:32.070
you know, get more powerful at the edge.
00:22:32.080 --> 00:22:35.670
Um,
00:22:35.680 --> 00:22:38.350
I'm not sure how that's innovating right
00:22:38.360 --> 00:22:41.870
now. Um, I know that there've been many
00:22:41.880 --> 00:22:44.750
of machine learning type technologies
00:22:44.760 --> 00:22:47.270
like tinyML where you could make it run
00:22:47.280 --> 00:22:48.150
on a
00:22:48.160 --> 00:22:50.830
tiny microcontroller, but
00:22:50.840 --> 00:22:52.590
some of the things people are after
00:22:52.600 --> 00:22:55.270
really takes a lot more intelligence.
00:22:55.280 --> 00:22:55.630
>> Yeah.
00:22:55.640 --> 00:22:58.190
>> Um, I think my fingers are crossed that
00:22:58.200 --> 00:23:00.030
there's going to be some new innovation
00:23:00.040 --> 00:23:03.710
that can reduce the size of models
00:23:03.720 --> 00:23:05.670
dramatically. Otherwise,
00:23:05.680 --> 00:23:08.430
cuz the size and the power needs are
00:23:08.440 --> 00:23:09.470
just
00:23:09.480 --> 00:23:12.070
kind of linearly growing up, and they're
00:23:12.080 --> 00:23:13.990
still trying to push it just with more
00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:15.790
power and more
00:23:15.800 --> 00:23:16.790
um
00:23:16.800 --> 00:23:20.110
that will only go so far. But, um
00:23:20.120 --> 00:23:21.830
there is a new one called like Jev that
00:23:21.840 --> 00:23:22.590
came out
00:23:22.600 --> 00:23:23.030
>> Yeah.
00:23:23.040 --> 00:23:24.590
>> a few weeks ago. I'm like, this sounds
00:23:24.600 --> 00:23:26.470
cool, but every time someone explains
00:23:26.480 --> 00:23:28.230
it, it seems
00:23:28.240 --> 00:23:30.230
a little cryptic, but seems a little bit
00:23:30.240 --> 00:23:33.070
like uh you know, but um
00:23:33.080 --> 00:23:34.190
there's
00:23:34.200 --> 00:23:35.870
a lot of innovation happening, and it's
00:23:35.880 --> 00:23:38.110
happening faster than
00:23:38.120 --> 00:23:39.790
I can imagine. I hate that I'm on the
00:23:39.800 --> 00:23:41.670
bandwagon now, but I'm pretty excited
00:23:41.680 --> 00:23:42.630
about
00:23:42.640 --> 00:23:43.870
>> Yeah, I think you always got to be
00:23:43.880 --> 00:23:44.590
careful.
00:23:44.600 --> 00:23:46.510
>> is actually better when I have some
00:23:46.520 --> 00:23:47.270
help.
00:23:47.280 --> 00:23:47.830
>> Oh, yeah.
00:23:47.840 --> 00:23:48.510
>> So.
00:23:48.520 --> 00:23:50.350
>> Oh, yeah. So, you're right. I I I'm on
00:23:50.360 --> 00:23:52.630
the same bandwagon, uh you know, in
00:23:52.640 --> 00:23:54.550
terms of artificial intelligence, where
00:23:54.560 --> 00:23:56.910
it plays inside the organization. You
00:23:56.920 --> 00:23:58.630
know, at Opsite, we're doing the same
00:23:58.640 --> 00:24:00.350
thing. Uh the the company is doing the
00:24:00.360 --> 00:24:02.350
same thing with alarm management,
00:24:02.360 --> 00:24:03.910
creating what we're going to call it a
00:24:03.920 --> 00:24:07.270
twin to Azure, and then using um
00:24:07.280 --> 00:24:09.270
a large language model for uh alarm
00:24:09.280 --> 00:24:10.870
management that is not replacing the
00:24:10.880 --> 00:24:13.110
operator. That is a way so that we can
00:24:13.120 --> 00:24:14.630
predict and recommend.
00:24:14.640 --> 00:24:15.030
>> Right.
00:24:15.040 --> 00:24:16.110
>> Right. I think those those are the
00:24:16.120 --> 00:24:18.910
routes that that we're going, and so
00:24:18.920 --> 00:24:20.350
we're going to see some growth, and I'm
00:24:20.360 --> 00:24:23.630
excited about that. And I I want to say,
00:24:23.640 --> 00:24:25.230
you know, Jonathan, thank you for being
00:24:25.240 --> 00:24:26.990
on the show for a minute. I do want to
00:24:27.000 --> 00:24:28.350
keep you for a lot longer,
00:24:28.360 --> 00:24:28.830
>> Oh, no.
00:24:28.840 --> 00:24:31.590
>> but um at the same time, um I am going
00:24:31.600 --> 00:24:33.790
to see you on the 22nd. Again, you can
00:24:33.800 --> 00:24:36.230
catch us there at IOGC. It's going to be
00:24:36.240 --> 00:24:38.830
a great a great deal. Uh Jonathan again
00:24:38.840 --> 00:24:41.990
will be demoing his use of MCP there,
00:24:42.000 --> 00:24:44.030
and the leverage with Ignition.
00:24:44.040 --> 00:24:46.550
And with that, I'm your host for today,
00:24:46.560 --> 00:24:48.910
Mike Floudas, on the Energy Tech Podcast
00:24:48.920 --> 00:24:51.270
right here at Indelec in the fall
00:24:51.280 --> 00:24:54.870
series, and Mr. Jonathan [music] Hoddle
00:24:54.880 --> 00:24:56.430
of Electron Automation. Good to have you
00:24:56.440 --> 00:24:57.150
here, man.
00:24:57.160 --> 00:24:58.670
>> It's been good. Thanks, Mike.
00:24:58.680 --> 00:25:01.840
>> You're welcome. It's good to have you.
Kind: captions
Language: en
00:00:09.760 --> 00:00:11.830
All right, welcome into the Energy Tech
00:00:11.840 --> 00:00:14.110
podcast. [music] I am your host here
00:00:14.120 --> 00:00:17.550
today, Mike Fludis, right here live at
00:00:17.560 --> 00:00:20.510
Intelec the fall session of course
00:00:20.520 --> 00:00:23.190
happens in October right here in lovely
00:00:23.200 --> 00:00:25.510
Odessa, Texas. I guess we could call
00:00:25.520 --> 00:00:27.470
that maybe part of the heart of the
00:00:27.480 --> 00:00:29.990
Permian, we could say. But with me is a
00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:33.110
great guest, a friend, a colleague
00:00:33.120 --> 00:00:36.310
of course Jonathan Hodel, president of
00:00:36.320 --> 00:00:38.830
Electron Automation. Jonathan, it's good
00:00:38.840 --> 00:00:40.270
to have you on the show, man.
00:00:40.280 --> 00:00:42.110
>> It's always good to see you, Mike. Glad
00:00:42.120 --> 00:00:44.990
you came out to see us out here in the
00:00:45.000 --> 00:00:46.190
out in the field here.
00:00:46.200 --> 00:00:48.470
>> Yeah, well, you know, it's it's you
00:00:48.480 --> 00:00:50.830
know, it it's it's part of oil and gas,
00:00:50.840 --> 00:00:52.270
you know, the Energy Tech podcast of
00:00:52.280 --> 00:00:54.470
course, our roots are of course in
00:00:54.480 --> 00:00:57.590
energy, oil and gas and the who can do
00:00:57.600 --> 00:00:59.910
that without being in the Permian? Now
00:00:59.920 --> 00:01:01.510
we do represent other areas, you know,
00:01:01.520 --> 00:01:03.430
we've got constantly guests from the
00:01:03.440 --> 00:01:07.470
Marcellus the Utica play here in the
00:01:07.480 --> 00:01:10.110
in Texas, South Texas as well and of
00:01:10.120 --> 00:01:12.270
course in Louisiana, the Haynesville,
00:01:12.280 --> 00:01:14.990
Oklahoma and the Scoop, anywhere really.
00:01:15.000 --> 00:01:17.190
But let's talk about why you're here,
00:01:17.200 --> 00:01:18.830
you know, Jonathan, it'd be really good,
00:01:18.840 --> 00:01:21.110
man. Let me get your take real quick on
00:01:21.120 --> 00:01:23.190
Arlen Nipper's keynote and kind of what
00:01:23.200 --> 00:01:25.270
you caught there a little bit and what
00:01:25.280 --> 00:01:26.990
brings you to Intelec this year. This
00:01:27.000 --> 00:01:28.230
part at least the fall seminar.
00:01:28.240 --> 00:01:29.870
>> Okay. So
00:01:29.880 --> 00:01:32.150
Arlen is always fun to listen to, right?
00:01:32.160 --> 00:01:34.950
He tells the story and it's really
00:01:34.960 --> 00:01:37.990
important for people to understand what
00:01:38.000 --> 00:01:41.870
MQTT came from and that it wasn't built
00:01:41.880 --> 00:01:45.230
for IT, it was built for OT, right?
00:01:45.240 --> 00:01:47.590
Um but one thing that struck me is we're
00:01:47.600 --> 00:01:49.270
still
00:01:49.280 --> 00:01:52.070
I've still heard him evangelizing it and
00:01:52.080 --> 00:01:53.790
I've been a huge fan
00:01:53.800 --> 00:01:55.950
ever since he brought it over helped
00:01:55.960 --> 00:01:58.910
bring it over to Ignition, like
00:01:58.920 --> 00:02:01.590
8 9 years ago. Um
00:02:01.600 --> 00:02:05.030
but the big vendors of our hardware, our
00:02:05.040 --> 00:02:06.390
RTUs,
00:02:06.400 --> 00:02:08.510
and they're still not embracing MQTT,
00:02:08.520 --> 00:02:10.749
and it's like, well, how hard do we have
00:02:10.759 --> 00:02:12.470
to
00:02:12.480 --> 00:02:13.790
um
00:02:13.800 --> 00:02:16.750
bend their arm to like build it in, but
00:02:16.760 --> 00:02:18.710
you know, we have solutions in edge
00:02:18.720 --> 00:02:20.910
technology and so forth, but uh
00:02:20.920 --> 00:02:22.390
>> think you're right. Um you know, one of
00:02:22.400 --> 00:02:24.070
the things that we're always uh striving
00:02:24.080 --> 00:02:27.270
for is to get our context from the edge,
00:02:27.280 --> 00:02:29.510
right? Uh when So, when we're talking
00:02:29.520 --> 00:02:32.830
about especially MQTT thrives on uh not
00:02:32.840 --> 00:02:34.310
just the fact that it is a smaller
00:02:34.320 --> 00:02:37.030
payload, um it is a I don't know, what's
00:02:37.040 --> 00:02:39.270
the word? Uh prolific or ubiquitous
00:02:39.280 --> 00:02:41.949
ubiquitous protocol, but just the idea
00:02:41.959 --> 00:02:43.710
that you if you want to get that data
00:02:43.720 --> 00:02:45.630
with context at the edge, what you're
00:02:45.640 --> 00:02:47.830
hoping for, and I think you maybe you
00:02:47.840 --> 00:02:50.750
can talk with me about this one, is
00:02:50.760 --> 00:02:52.270
you want
00:02:52.280 --> 00:02:54.630
what I call some legacy devices or
00:02:54.640 --> 00:02:56.230
devices, especially when it comes to
00:02:56.240 --> 00:02:58.070
like, let's just pick on one, flow
00:02:58.080 --> 00:02:59.350
computers,
00:02:59.360 --> 00:03:00.910
you know, sometimes there's not an
00:03:00.920 --> 00:03:03.630
embracing there of edge protocols like
00:03:03.640 --> 00:03:05.949
MQTT, and I think is that kind of the
00:03:05.959 --> 00:03:07.870
heartburn that you're talking about?
00:03:07.880 --> 00:03:10.270
>> Yeah, and I think some of these vendors
00:03:10.280 --> 00:03:14.710
are still relying on their proprietary
00:03:14.720 --> 00:03:16.590
closed-source
00:03:16.600 --> 00:03:19.030
protocols to they think they're still
00:03:19.040 --> 00:03:21.590
going to lock people in, but people
00:03:21.600 --> 00:03:24.390
really want to be free of that, and have
00:03:24.400 --> 00:03:27.670
not speak a secret code that only that
00:03:27.680 --> 00:03:29.030
device
00:03:29.040 --> 00:03:31.509
speaks, like, you know, we need
00:03:31.519 --> 00:03:33.390
open standards, like
00:03:33.400 --> 00:03:35.110
open is winning, right?
00:03:35.120 --> 00:03:35.750
>> Yeah.
00:03:35.760 --> 00:03:38.190
>> Just not in our industry yet.
00:03:38.200 --> 00:03:39.949
>> Yeah, I think you're right. Um you know,
00:03:39.959 --> 00:03:42.310
again, if if we're leaning if we focus
00:03:42.320 --> 00:03:45.070
on what we talk about um you know, uh a
00:03:45.080 --> 00:03:47.270
flow computer, right? So, you have this
00:03:47.280 --> 00:03:48.910
specific protocol, it's almost like
00:03:48.920 --> 00:03:50.830
being on your own island, and you got to
00:03:50.840 --> 00:03:53.110
take information from that island when
00:03:53.120 --> 00:03:55.550
the reality is you want to already build
00:03:55.560 --> 00:03:57.830
context there at the edge. We want to
00:03:57.840 --> 00:04:00.030
assemble the payload. We want it to be
00:04:00.040 --> 00:04:02.510
lightweight. Especially in oil and gas,
00:04:02.520 --> 00:04:04.190
you want it to report by exception.
00:04:04.200 --> 00:04:05.470
You're looking for a lightweight
00:04:05.480 --> 00:04:07.430
protocol. And then you want to carry the
00:04:07.440 --> 00:04:09.430
context over
00:04:09.440 --> 00:04:11.550
into your data orchestration layers or
00:04:11.560 --> 00:04:13.270
if you're going to use that further on
00:04:13.280 --> 00:04:15.830
down, let's say in your cloud space. And
00:04:15.840 --> 00:04:17.830
I think right now, Jonathan, there's
00:04:17.840 --> 00:04:20.910
such a push to have that context and
00:04:20.920 --> 00:04:23.790
especially with like MCP and leveraging
00:04:23.800 --> 00:04:26.830
that side and as a a piece to the
00:04:26.840 --> 00:04:28.909
industrial OT side, you would hope that
00:04:28.919 --> 00:04:30.590
what you're looking for is something
00:04:30.600 --> 00:04:32.510
that plays really well in that space,
00:04:32.520 --> 00:04:33.630
you know?
00:04:33.640 --> 00:04:34.470
>> So, [snorts]
00:04:34.480 --> 00:04:35.670
you know,
00:04:35.680 --> 00:04:38.070
the unified name space has becoming
00:04:38.080 --> 00:04:40.750
popular in our industry and people are
00:04:40.760 --> 00:04:42.550
evangelizing it and saying what are the
00:04:42.560 --> 00:04:44.870
benefits of this thing and
00:04:44.880 --> 00:04:46.390
there are many benefits. One of them is
00:04:46.400 --> 00:04:47.510
just
00:04:47.520 --> 00:04:49.830
reducing the noise in your SCADA and
00:04:49.840 --> 00:04:51.630
then your you know, what are you feeding
00:04:51.640 --> 00:04:52.870
the SCADA to?
00:04:52.880 --> 00:04:53.230
>> Yeah.
00:04:53.240 --> 00:04:54.310
>> But
00:04:54.320 --> 00:04:55.470
in
00:04:55.480 --> 00:04:58.470
with modern technology,
00:04:58.480 --> 00:05:01.710
not having a unified name space is
00:05:01.720 --> 00:05:02.750
fatal.
00:05:02.760 --> 00:05:02.990
>> Yeah.
00:05:03.000 --> 00:05:05.909
>> Because not only can a human a human
00:05:05.919 --> 00:05:08.790
can't understand your data model. A data
00:05:08.800 --> 00:05:10.830
scientist has no clue.
00:05:10.840 --> 00:05:12.470
Well, guess what? If you have a nice
00:05:12.480 --> 00:05:15.990
unified name space, AI can absolutely
00:05:16.000 --> 00:05:19.430
understand what's going on. Like
00:05:19.440 --> 00:05:21.150
that context
00:05:21.160 --> 00:05:23.670
and having a semantic name space is
00:05:23.680 --> 00:05:24.670
critical.
00:05:24.680 --> 00:05:26.430
>> Yeah, and and
00:05:26.440 --> 00:05:28.390
I think you're right. It it's not just
00:05:28.400 --> 00:05:31.030
that as the semantics that carries over
00:05:31.040 --> 00:05:33.070
uh for someone that's in data science,
00:05:33.080 --> 00:05:35.510
but it also makes you hit on this
00:05:35.520 --> 00:05:37.750
already, which is AI readiness.
00:05:37.760 --> 00:05:40.590
Um you know, right the it's not it's not
00:05:40.600 --> 00:05:41.830
I think you and I both agree. It's not
00:05:41.840 --> 00:05:43.190
as simple as okay, we plug it in and
00:05:43.200 --> 00:05:45.430
it's AI ready. It's not like a 5-minute
00:05:45.440 --> 00:05:47.990
meal in the microwave. It it it is going
00:05:48.000 --> 00:05:49.990
to require some work. However,
00:05:50.000 --> 00:05:52.390
when it does have context at the edge
00:05:52.400 --> 00:05:54.310
and when you are carrying that over
00:05:54.320 --> 00:05:56.870
across the unified namespace, it's
00:05:56.880 --> 00:05:58.910
almost to the point where you have less
00:05:58.920 --> 00:06:01.710
of an ETL. So, I don't have to do tons
00:06:01.720 --> 00:06:03.630
of extraction, transforming, and
00:06:03.640 --> 00:06:06.510
loading. I can essentially carry that
00:06:06.520 --> 00:06:10.550
same messaging, that same context over,
00:06:10.560 --> 00:06:12.590
and I don't have to roll up my sleeves
00:06:12.600 --> 00:06:15.030
that much that much and really pour
00:06:15.040 --> 00:06:17.950
dollars into a data engineering team,
00:06:17.960 --> 00:06:19.190
right?
00:06:19.200 --> 00:06:22.514
>> Yeah, and um
00:06:22.524 --> 00:06:22.550
>> [snorts]
00:06:22.560 --> 00:06:25.110
>> in our industry, we usually trail back
00:06:25.120 --> 00:06:28.110
trail behind, you know, 5 or 10 years
00:06:28.120 --> 00:06:30.710
modern technology, but we can't do that
00:06:30.720 --> 00:06:31.909
with
00:06:31.919 --> 00:06:34.510
the innovations that are happening even
00:06:34.520 --> 00:06:37.110
like on a monthly basis, like how much
00:06:37.120 --> 00:06:40.590
more intelligent the models are.
00:06:40.600 --> 00:06:41.470
Like
00:06:41.480 --> 00:06:43.790
next year is going to be pretty shocking
00:06:43.800 --> 00:06:45.270
the things people are going to be doing
00:06:45.280 --> 00:06:47.550
and those that are like a year behind
00:06:47.560 --> 00:06:48.870
are going to be like, "Okay, I guess
00:06:48.880 --> 00:06:51.710
I'll start paying attention." But um
00:06:51.720 --> 00:06:53.350
it's going to be a fun year, for sure.
00:06:53.360 --> 00:06:55.550
2027, the things that are going to
00:06:55.560 --> 00:06:57.870
happen. It's going faster and faster.
00:06:57.880 --> 00:06:58.909
>> Yeah, we're going to talk about what
00:06:58.919 --> 00:07:00.510
you've been up to. Before I do that, I
00:07:00.520 --> 00:07:01.909
want to make I want to say something,
00:07:01.919 --> 00:07:03.630
you know, at the beginning of the year,
00:07:03.640 --> 00:07:05.670
actually before the year started, we do
00:07:05.680 --> 00:07:07.790
a on the Energy Tech podcast, we do some
00:07:07.800 --> 00:07:10.270
predictions. I had these top five. One
00:07:10.280 --> 00:07:11.790
of my predictions was the rise of the
00:07:11.800 --> 00:07:14.550
agent and I think that was spot on. I'm
00:07:14.560 --> 00:07:16.190
giving credit to myself just one time,
00:07:16.200 --> 00:07:18.670
one little selfish plug for me.
00:07:18.680 --> 00:07:20.150
I knew that this was going to be the
00:07:20.160 --> 00:07:22.710
rise of the agent and I didn't realize
00:07:22.720 --> 00:07:24.710
it was going to mean that people were on
00:07:24.720 --> 00:07:26.510
the news, especially when you start
00:07:26.520 --> 00:07:30.430
talking about OpenAI and Anthropic and
00:07:30.440 --> 00:07:32.310
hacking hugging face and you're seeing
00:07:32.320 --> 00:07:35.030
all these agents going rogue, you could
00:07:35.040 --> 00:07:36.030
say.
00:07:36.040 --> 00:07:37.470
But there's lots of good coming out of
00:07:37.480 --> 00:07:40.430
that. And having said that, I do want to
00:07:40.440 --> 00:07:43.030
ask Jonathan what you've been up to in
00:07:43.040 --> 00:07:45.430
the agent space now with ignition.
00:07:45.440 --> 00:07:46.950
>> Mhm.
00:07:46.960 --> 00:07:50.550
So, I've been a AI denier for a while
00:07:50.560 --> 00:07:51.030
cuz
00:07:51.040 --> 00:07:51.550
>> Yeah.
00:07:51.560 --> 00:07:53.670
>> I'm I've lived through a lot of hype
00:07:53.680 --> 00:07:56.470
cycles of the Internet of Things or the
00:07:56.480 --> 00:07:58.790
inter- Not the Internet of Things, it's
00:07:58.800 --> 00:08:00.750
now the Industrial Internet of Things.
00:08:00.760 --> 00:08:01.110
>> Yeah.
00:08:01.120 --> 00:08:02.590
>> Like how does that really affect my
00:08:02.600 --> 00:08:04.590
day-to-day in the oil field?
00:08:04.600 --> 00:08:05.030
>> Yeah.
00:08:05.040 --> 00:08:06.830
>> Um
00:08:06.840 --> 00:08:09.790
but over the last 3 months, man, I've
00:08:09.800 --> 00:08:14.030
uh been powering up and uh
00:08:14.040 --> 00:08:16.150
right now
00:08:16.160 --> 00:08:19.230
um adding MCP server to Ignition is one
00:08:19.240 --> 00:08:20.510
of the big things that happened last
00:08:20.520 --> 00:08:22.070
month and
00:08:22.080 --> 00:08:24.070
I've gone from a couple months ago to
00:08:24.080 --> 00:08:26.710
thinking how my job was going to be to
00:08:26.720 --> 00:08:29.670
add context to agents, like that's going
00:08:29.680 --> 00:08:31.150
to be my thing. I'm going to be able to
00:08:31.160 --> 00:08:33.230
prototype this to
00:08:33.240 --> 00:08:35.350
last month it's like this thing can do
00:08:35.360 --> 00:08:38.390
my job, especially if I'm here with it.
00:08:38.400 --> 00:08:39.670
And leveraging it.
00:08:39.680 --> 00:08:40.350
>> Yeah.
00:08:40.360 --> 00:08:43.270
>> To like it's going fast. So, right now
00:08:43.280 --> 00:08:44.590
I'm building
00:08:44.600 --> 00:08:48.350
SCADA systems with with cloud code and
00:08:48.360 --> 00:08:50.350
it's not just a little bit powerful, it
00:08:50.360 --> 00:08:51.430
is
00:08:51.440 --> 00:08:53.910
truly profound. So,
00:08:53.920 --> 00:08:55.870
and I think we have to evolve a little
00:08:55.880 --> 00:08:58.470
bit to get past like, okay, it's amazing
00:08:58.480 --> 00:09:01.510
with code. Is it amazing with my data
00:09:01.520 --> 00:09:03.270
giving me insights? I think that's still
00:09:03.280 --> 00:09:05.270
evolving a little bit, but
00:09:05.280 --> 00:09:06.670
>> man, it's moving fast.
00:09:06.680 --> 00:09:08.590
>> Yeah, so I I you you you and I talked a
00:09:08.600 --> 00:09:10.190
little bit before, you know, like got
00:09:10.200 --> 00:09:12.070
you on the show and
00:09:12.080 --> 00:09:13.910
you know, I I realized that there's some
00:09:13.920 --> 00:09:16.150
people that are saying, well,
00:09:16.160 --> 00:09:18.150
this could replace
00:09:18.160 --> 00:09:19.950
a SCADA developer
00:09:19.960 --> 00:09:21.430
at some level.
00:09:21.440 --> 00:09:22.829
Um
00:09:22.839 --> 00:09:24.990
I don't I don't think it it'll replace
00:09:25.000 --> 00:09:26.829
the SCADA developer in my mind. Um
00:09:26.839 --> 00:09:28.430
here's why.
00:09:28.440 --> 00:09:30.310
A SCADA developer, especially a great
00:09:30.320 --> 00:09:32.670
one, good ones, I mean, you know what
00:09:32.680 --> 00:09:34.030
good looks like
00:09:34.040 --> 00:09:35.910
for your client. And what- in part of
00:09:35.920 --> 00:09:37.630
the industrial space you're in, in this
00:09:37.640 --> 00:09:39.750
case it will say energy. Energy oil and
00:09:39.760 --> 00:09:41.750
gas, if you're you know what good looks
00:09:41.760 --> 00:09:45.510
like. You know what a good solution is
00:09:45.520 --> 00:09:47.550
for your customer, whether they're in
00:09:47.560 --> 00:09:49.430
the production space, upstream in
00:09:49.440 --> 00:09:51.230
drilling, if you're doing something in
00:09:51.240 --> 00:09:53.550
completions, if you're working out of
00:09:53.560 --> 00:09:56.150
flowback application in ignition, if
00:09:56.160 --> 00:09:57.230
you're delivering something in
00:09:57.240 --> 00:09:59.510
production and midstream and downstream
00:09:59.520 --> 00:10:02.190
operations, like you know what good
00:10:02.200 --> 00:10:03.870
looks like.
00:10:03.880 --> 00:10:05.870
Anthropic doesn't know what good looks
00:10:05.880 --> 00:10:06.870
like.
00:10:06.880 --> 00:10:09.750
And so, I still think what this is going
00:10:09.760 --> 00:10:13.350
to do is this is going to optimize
00:10:13.360 --> 00:10:15.430
and it is going to augment the role.
00:10:15.440 --> 00:10:17.150
This means that
00:10:17.160 --> 00:10:19.190
Electron automation doesn't have to
00:10:19.200 --> 00:10:20.950
bring in six
00:10:20.960 --> 00:10:24.030
engine- junior engineers, but Jonathan
00:10:24.040 --> 00:10:26.790
can do the work of six
00:10:26.800 --> 00:10:28.590
production I mean six junior engineers.
00:10:28.600 --> 00:10:29.790
I think that's what I'm getting at. The
00:10:29.800 --> 00:10:31.830
so, I think there's a heavy augmentation
00:10:31.840 --> 00:10:34.350
when it comes to what's possible inside
00:10:34.360 --> 00:10:36.590
of that and leveraging ignition along
00:10:36.600 --> 00:10:39.190
with things like Astro 6 inside of Open
00:10:39.200 --> 00:10:40.910
AI and so on, you know.
00:10:40.920 --> 00:10:44.470
>> Yeah, and um
00:10:44.480 --> 00:10:45.829
there shouldn't be
00:10:45.839 --> 00:10:49.190
a huge fear, an overwhelming fear of it
00:10:49.200 --> 00:10:52.350
taking the jobs because
00:10:52.360 --> 00:10:53.710
we [clears throat] always struggle with
00:10:53.720 --> 00:10:56.310
the massive timelines and the massive
00:10:56.320 --> 00:10:58.350
amount of effort for our projects. So,
00:10:58.360 --> 00:10:58.870
>> Yeah.
00:10:58.880 --> 00:11:01.150
>> if we can cut off
00:11:01.160 --> 00:11:03.829
and make them 30% faster, we're just
00:11:03.839 --> 00:11:05.630
going to be doing more projects.
00:11:05.640 --> 00:11:06.110
>> Right.
00:11:06.120 --> 00:11:06.710
>> Because
00:11:06.720 --> 00:11:08.870
we've we've always needed
00:11:08.880 --> 00:11:11.510
that better SCADA host system. We've
00:11:11.520 --> 00:11:13.430
needed that upgrade or the that new
00:11:13.440 --> 00:11:14.910
functionality.
00:11:14.920 --> 00:11:16.590
We'll just be able to get to it faster.
00:11:16.600 --> 00:11:17.510
So,
00:11:17.520 --> 00:11:18.990
I'm not sure if I'm going to be making
00:11:19.000 --> 00:11:21.070
more money, but I will be doing a lot
00:11:21.080 --> 00:11:22.990
more things in the shorter amount of
00:11:23.000 --> 00:11:23.870
time.
00:11:23.880 --> 00:11:25.550
>> Yeah. Well, I think you're right. So, I
00:11:25.560 --> 00:11:27.070
use the word a lot. I've I've used this
00:11:27.080 --> 00:11:28.470
word. I stopped using it, but it's a
00:11:28.480 --> 00:11:30.310
shorter time to value.
00:11:30.320 --> 00:11:30.710
>> Yes.
00:11:30.720 --> 00:11:32.270
>> Uh so, I think that's the key right
00:11:32.280 --> 00:11:36.070
there is it is a shorter time to value
00:11:36.080 --> 00:11:38.430
if we can do a lot of those development
00:11:38.440 --> 00:11:39.710
pieces.
00:11:39.720 --> 00:11:42.230
Uh, you know, I I I did, you know,
00:11:42.240 --> 00:11:43.510
I don't want to
00:11:43.520 --> 00:11:44.990
I'll say it this way. You know, I I
00:11:45.000 --> 00:11:47.510
heard Walker Reynolds mention comment.
00:11:47.520 --> 00:11:48.910
He said, "Well, who needs Ignition if
00:11:48.920 --> 00:11:51.270
you're doing this?" Well,
00:11:51.280 --> 00:11:53.110
I don't think there's a replacement
00:11:53.120 --> 00:11:55.190
there. I think it's more again is
00:11:55.200 --> 00:11:59.230
augmentation of that piece and now a
00:11:59.240 --> 00:12:02.430
customer doesn't have to spend hundreds
00:12:02.440 --> 00:12:04.870
of thousands cuz that's what it can take
00:12:04.880 --> 00:12:05.870
to
00:12:05.880 --> 00:12:08.430
really develop something that that you
00:12:08.440 --> 00:12:10.830
can see and they can take into
00:12:10.840 --> 00:12:13.150
production a lot quicker, especially if
00:12:13.160 --> 00:12:14.710
they have someone like you, Jonathan,
00:12:14.720 --> 00:12:17.230
with you, your team doing something and
00:12:17.240 --> 00:12:19.310
you've augmented yourself with um
00:12:19.320 --> 00:12:20.630
Claude.
00:12:20.640 --> 00:12:22.350
>> Yeah. Um,
00:12:22.360 --> 00:12:24.270
you know, on the downside maybe a little
00:12:24.280 --> 00:12:25.470
bit. I was
00:12:25.480 --> 00:12:26.990
Arlen walked by and
00:12:27.000 --> 00:12:29.110
we were talking about AI a little bit
00:12:29.120 --> 00:12:30.110
and
00:12:30.120 --> 00:12:31.510
he did mention, "It's like, yeah, I can
00:12:31.520 --> 00:12:33.310
build some things a lot faster, but is
00:12:33.320 --> 00:12:35.790
it production ready?" I'm like, "Yeah,
00:12:35.800 --> 00:12:37.990
it means that first 80%
00:12:38.000 --> 00:12:38.670
>> Yeah.
00:12:38.680 --> 00:12:41.110
>> you can do that lightning fast, but that
00:12:41.120 --> 00:12:42.230
last
00:12:42.240 --> 00:12:45.710
20% of really refining it
00:12:45.720 --> 00:12:48.670
um to production readiness is
00:12:48.680 --> 00:12:50.070
it could be harder
00:12:50.080 --> 00:12:50.670
>> Yeah.
00:12:50.680 --> 00:12:52.950
>> depending on how complicated that your
00:12:52.960 --> 00:12:54.030
tools
00:12:54.040 --> 00:12:56.270
made it for you. But, um
00:12:56.280 --> 00:12:57.829
I think it's exciting either way.
00:12:57.839 --> 00:12:59.829
>> Yeah, so let's stay on the excitement
00:12:59.839 --> 00:13:01.630
side. Tell me what you've been up to.
00:13:01.640 --> 00:13:03.430
Um, I know that, you know, you've been
00:13:03.440 --> 00:13:05.870
working on the sidelines and I want to
00:13:05.880 --> 00:13:08.510
qualify what I'm asking. Um, you know, I
00:13:08.520 --> 00:13:10.550
know we're here at Intellect, but
00:13:10.560 --> 00:13:12.350
Jonathan's also going to be uh
00:13:12.360 --> 00:13:15.190
presenting at IOGC, the Ignition Oil and
00:13:15.200 --> 00:13:16.710
Gas Collective
00:13:16.720 --> 00:13:19.110
there in San Antonio. Optimation will be
00:13:19.120 --> 00:13:21.870
a a sponsor, the Energy Tech podcast.
00:13:21.880 --> 00:13:24.630
And um you know, Jonathan, you're going
00:13:24.640 --> 00:13:26.230
to be talking a little bit about what
00:13:26.240 --> 00:13:27.710
you're doing there. Give kind of give us
00:13:27.720 --> 00:13:28.870
a sneak peek of what you'll be
00:13:28.880 --> 00:13:30.470
presenting at I O [clears throat] G C.
00:13:30.480 --> 00:13:32.790
>> So, the oil and gas collective, we've
00:13:32.800 --> 00:13:35.470
been around for about 10 years. Um,
00:13:35.480 --> 00:13:38.230
we're, you know, owners of oil and oil
00:13:38.240 --> 00:13:40.710
and gas ignition systems wanted to talk
00:13:40.720 --> 00:13:42.030
and share
00:13:42.040 --> 00:13:43.790
share what their journeys, right? Their
00:13:43.800 --> 00:13:45.299
struggles and their awesome stuff.
00:13:45.309 --> 00:13:45.790
[clears throat]
00:13:45.800 --> 00:13:46.310
>> Yeah.
00:13:46.320 --> 00:13:47.390
>> Um,
00:13:47.400 --> 00:13:48.510
but yeah,
00:13:48.520 --> 00:13:50.790
looking forward to a couple weeks from
00:13:50.800 --> 00:13:53.710
now.
00:13:53.720 --> 00:13:55.870
So, we pulled the group and they're
00:13:55.880 --> 00:13:56.870
like, "Well, what do you want to see
00:13:56.880 --> 00:13:58.190
next? What do you want to see next?"
00:13:58.200 --> 00:13:59.910
It's always like, "We want to see more
00:13:59.920 --> 00:14:02.230
ignition. We want to see more flexible
00:14:02.240 --> 00:14:04.830
responsive HMI. Maybe want want to talk
00:14:04.840 --> 00:14:06.990
about Ignition Cloud Name Space."
00:14:07.000 --> 00:14:08.190
>> And
00:14:08.200 --> 00:14:10.350
the demand for AI is like, "We want to
00:14:10.360 --> 00:14:12.070
hear more about how people are using
00:14:12.080 --> 00:14:13.830
AI." Um,
00:14:13.840 --> 00:14:16.510
and it was kind of not intentional, but
00:14:16.520 --> 00:14:19.470
this particular show is
00:14:19.480 --> 00:14:23.470
about 70% different AI offerings from
00:14:23.480 --> 00:14:25.310
being able to
00:14:25.320 --> 00:14:27.350
get intelligence,
00:14:27.360 --> 00:14:28.030
um,
00:14:28.040 --> 00:14:29.910
you know, suggestions from AI while
00:14:29.920 --> 00:14:32.390
you're inside of Ignition or doing
00:14:32.400 --> 00:14:37.390
machine learning, um, AI uh, analysis,
00:14:37.400 --> 00:14:39.510
running AI on the edge, and then I just
00:14:39.520 --> 00:14:41.590
kind of accidentally
00:14:41.600 --> 00:14:43.310
fully built out my
00:14:43.320 --> 00:14:46.590
Ignition MCP uh, um, month or two ago
00:14:46.600 --> 00:14:46.990
>> Yeah.
00:14:47.000 --> 00:14:48.990
>> with Claude. You know, AI helped me
00:14:49.000 --> 00:14:50.750
build that out. I would have never done
00:14:50.760 --> 00:14:54.070
that without. But, it is so powerful.
00:14:54.080 --> 00:14:56.190
So, I'm going to present on that. And
00:14:56.200 --> 00:14:58.390
I'm this week I've been leveraging it so
00:14:58.400 --> 00:15:00.990
much. It's like I can't do without this
00:15:01.000 --> 00:15:01.710
now.
00:15:01.720 --> 00:15:02.150
>> Yeah.
00:15:02.160 --> 00:15:03.390
>> So, I think a lot of people, if they're
00:15:03.400 --> 00:15:05.590
not already already secretly doing it
00:15:05.600 --> 00:15:06.990
and not telling us that they're doing
00:15:07.000 --> 00:15:09.790
it, like, this is this is next.
00:15:09.800 --> 00:15:12.415
>> No, I think you're right. And and uh,
00:15:12.425 --> 00:15:12.670
>> [clears throat]
00:15:12.680 --> 00:15:13.829
>> I oh,
00:15:13.839 --> 00:15:15.630
you don't want to miss that. So, I
00:15:15.640 --> 00:15:17.590
realize, you know, this is in In-N-Out,
00:15:17.600 --> 00:15:19.870
but it in October, you know, that at the
00:15:19.880 --> 00:15:22.510
22nd in San Antonio, if you're an
00:15:22.520 --> 00:15:24.950
Ignition user, again, you can attend,
00:15:24.960 --> 00:15:29.910
sign up at the IOGC website. Um and
00:15:29.920 --> 00:15:33.030
>> Ignition oil and gas collective.org.
00:15:33.040 --> 00:15:34.550
>> There you go. Ignition oil and gas
00:15:34.560 --> 00:15:36.150
collective.org.
00:15:36.160 --> 00:15:39.110
And you can sign up there and there's
00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:40.750
plenty There's still plenty seats. You
00:15:40.760 --> 00:15:42.870
can grab one and
00:15:42.880 --> 00:15:45.510
join and and see what's happening. And
00:15:45.520 --> 00:15:47.910
again, it's putting AI to use in the
00:15:47.920 --> 00:15:50.190
industrial space. It's not this
00:15:50.200 --> 00:15:52.070
unattainable single agent that I'm
00:15:52.080 --> 00:15:54.070
running on my laptop because everybody
00:15:54.080 --> 00:15:55.230
You know, Jonathan, a lot of people are
00:15:55.240 --> 00:15:57.070
doing that. I think if I go to YouTube
00:15:57.080 --> 00:16:00.470
and I look at these big names like
00:16:00.480 --> 00:16:02.670
Mark What's that guy's name? Martel? You
00:16:02.680 --> 00:16:04.350
got all kinds of people that put out all
00:16:04.360 --> 00:16:07.110
these tools. They're really cool, but
00:16:07.120 --> 00:16:08.510
they're not enterprise. They're not
00:16:08.520 --> 00:16:11.230
industrial. So, they're not They're just
00:16:11.240 --> 00:16:14.030
like, "Oh, look how I made my my small
00:16:14.040 --> 00:16:15.430
business better."
00:16:15.440 --> 00:16:15.710
>> Mhm.
00:16:15.720 --> 00:16:17.870
>> Uh that's great, but that doesn't fit
00:16:17.880 --> 00:16:19.830
what we're talking about, which is how
00:16:19.840 --> 00:16:22.670
can I deploy something like Claude MCP
00:16:22.680 --> 00:16:24.950
or Claude code to leverage what I'm
00:16:24.960 --> 00:16:27.870
doing for actual industrial critical
00:16:27.880 --> 00:16:29.829
infrastructure customers? That doesn't
00:16:29.839 --> 00:16:31.030
mean
00:16:31.040 --> 00:16:33.829
uh have it take over a process. I don't
00:16:33.839 --> 00:16:35.710
think we're We're both saying We're not
00:16:35.720 --> 00:16:38.990
saying go go deploy Claude to go in your
00:16:39.000 --> 00:16:41.790
closed-loop uh you know,
00:16:41.800 --> 00:16:44.590
um deterministic part stamping machine.
00:16:44.600 --> 00:16:46.230
We're not saying that.
00:16:46.240 --> 00:16:48.829
What we are saying What I'm saying is we
00:16:48.839 --> 00:16:50.670
can connect and we can leverage data
00:16:50.680 --> 00:16:52.430
that's let's say inside of Ignition for
00:16:52.440 --> 00:16:55.190
things like alarm rationalization, alarm
00:16:55.200 --> 00:16:57.790
management. I want to use it to get me a
00:16:57.800 --> 00:17:00.910
really good determination for flow. I
00:17:00.920 --> 00:17:03.230
want to look at another one I think has
00:17:03.240 --> 00:17:06.189
has someone needs to work on is
00:17:06.199 --> 00:17:08.230
nominations for oil and gas, the
00:17:08.240 --> 00:17:10.110
delivery of markets and predictability
00:17:10.120 --> 00:17:12.429
based on production and downstream
00:17:12.439 --> 00:17:14.350
production in one side, which is
00:17:14.360 --> 00:17:15.870
production, and and other side, which is
00:17:15.880 --> 00:17:18.309
delivering to the market and predicting
00:17:18.319 --> 00:17:20.429
what that looks like. That's to me is a
00:17:20.439 --> 00:17:22.230
good home run or an easy win for
00:17:22.240 --> 00:17:24.870
somebody on the MCP side.
00:17:24.880 --> 00:17:25.829
>> I don't want to give away ideas. I'm
00:17:25.839 --> 00:17:26.470
just letting you know.
00:17:26.480 --> 00:17:30.470
>> Yeah. Um so, couple things there cuz you
00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:32.230
know, we're not running this on a
00:17:32.240 --> 00:17:33.750
production system, obviously.
00:17:33.760 --> 00:17:34.230
>> Yeah.
00:17:34.240 --> 00:17:36.510
>> Um we can build a lot of tools and
00:17:36.520 --> 00:17:39.630
features in a sandbox that's not even
00:17:39.640 --> 00:17:42.430
close to the customer's infrastructure.
00:17:42.440 --> 00:17:42.870
>> Yeah.
00:17:42.880 --> 00:17:44.990
>> Refine those products and like, okay,
00:17:45.000 --> 00:17:47.710
I'm moving this over. This is a crazy
00:17:47.720 --> 00:17:50.710
showstopper. But um maybe question for
00:17:50.720 --> 00:17:51.270
you.
00:17:51.280 --> 00:17:52.110
>> Yeah.
00:17:52.120 --> 00:17:54.310
>> What uh you had a prediction for what
00:17:54.320 --> 00:17:56.230
last year was going to be agents, right?
00:17:56.240 --> 00:17:57.470
>> Yeah, rise of the agent.
00:17:57.480 --> 00:17:58.870
>> What do you think the theme is this
00:17:58.880 --> 00:17:59.750
year?
00:17:59.760 --> 00:18:02.717
>> Oh man, you know,
00:18:02.727 --> 00:18:02.870
>> [clears throat]
00:18:02.880 --> 00:18:03.550
>> uh
00:18:03.560 --> 00:18:04.790
you know,
00:18:04.800 --> 00:18:07.990
I think if if I have to predict
00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:09.510
something that I think I'm going to stop
00:18:09.520 --> 00:18:10.790
I'll talk about it again in another
00:18:10.800 --> 00:18:12.150
quarter.
00:18:12.160 --> 00:18:15.510
I think that we're going to see
00:18:15.520 --> 00:18:16.350
s-
00:18:16.360 --> 00:18:18.070
your local
00:18:18.080 --> 00:18:20.870
cap- the first to launch a local large
00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:23.830
language model that I can get
00:18:23.840 --> 00:18:25.430
and I don't have to I don't have to have
00:18:25.440 --> 00:18:28.030
a full subscription. I can have that run
00:18:28.040 --> 00:18:30.590
locally. I think we're going to see
00:18:30.600 --> 00:18:32.670
markets for local
00:18:32.680 --> 00:18:34.590
large language models
00:18:34.600 --> 00:18:36.670
and you're going to have tiers. So, if I
00:18:36.680 --> 00:18:39.710
want a local lar- large language model
00:18:39.720 --> 00:18:42.510
for a personal use like finance or I
00:18:42.520 --> 00:18:44.190
want to use this for home,
00:18:44.200 --> 00:18:45.550
I see that.
00:18:45.560 --> 00:18:47.990
If I want to use it for a medium-size
00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:49.630
thing in my business, I think you're
00:18:49.640 --> 00:18:51.590
going to see that. Do you want
00:18:51.600 --> 00:18:52.870
enterprise? I think I think we're going
00:18:52.880 --> 00:18:54.750
to move to that. Uh
00:18:54.760 --> 00:18:57.310
you know, just because I I think when
00:18:57.320 --> 00:18:59.390
you start talking about large, these
00:18:59.400 --> 00:19:01.310
frontiers, you know, these the
00:19:01.320 --> 00:19:03.550
hyperscalers and frontiers,
00:19:03.560 --> 00:19:05.470
yeah, they've got it locked down, but in
00:19:05.480 --> 00:19:07.750
the market you have um the makers of
00:19:07.760 --> 00:19:10.310
things like genspark.ai,
00:19:10.320 --> 00:19:11.950
you have the makers of of course
00:19:11.960 --> 00:19:14.510
perplexities there with a wrapper.
00:19:14.520 --> 00:19:18.190
You've got Kimikay 3 and I think what
00:19:18.200 --> 00:19:19.910
they're going to offer up is hey,
00:19:19.920 --> 00:19:21.830
instead of going to a big model, why
00:19:21.840 --> 00:19:24.630
don't you join and have a smaller local
00:19:24.640 --> 00:19:25.630
model?
00:19:25.640 --> 00:19:26.950
That's what I think. All in the name of
00:19:26.960 --> 00:19:28.470
security, too, when you really think
00:19:28.480 --> 00:19:28.950
about it.
00:19:28.960 --> 00:19:30.590
>> Right. And not putting our business
00:19:30.600 --> 00:19:32.750
intelligence out out on the internet,
00:19:32.760 --> 00:19:35.310
right? Which is a hard requirement for
00:19:35.320 --> 00:19:37.550
our industry. So, that's been holding us
00:19:37.560 --> 00:19:40.270
back for a while because it's just like
00:19:40.280 --> 00:19:42.390
the frontier models are blowing people's
00:19:42.400 --> 00:19:44.910
minds, but
00:19:44.920 --> 00:19:46.430
we can't
00:19:46.440 --> 00:19:47.790
use that, right? So.
00:19:47.800 --> 00:19:50.030
>> you're right. Yeah, I think if you
00:19:50.040 --> 00:19:51.790
you know, not to get off into a tangent
00:19:51.800 --> 00:19:52.950
here, but when you really think about
00:19:52.960 --> 00:19:55.230
it, if I go to a frontier model,
00:19:55.240 --> 00:19:56.790
at the end of the day, who's supporting
00:19:56.800 --> 00:19:59.110
that are the Nvidia and those companies.
00:19:59.120 --> 00:20:00.670
So, there's there's really a loss of
00:20:00.680 --> 00:20:01.870
revenue there when you really think
00:20:01.880 --> 00:20:03.310
about it. If you were just to pull that
00:20:03.320 --> 00:20:04.350
back,
00:20:04.360 --> 00:20:06.990
the look the consumer doesn't uphold
00:20:07.000 --> 00:20:10.030
that market, but what they can uphold is
00:20:10.040 --> 00:20:14.590
a smaller, less a more a model that
00:20:14.600 --> 00:20:17.550
works just as good, less expensive, and
00:20:17.560 --> 00:20:19.470
I can hold onto it locally.
00:20:19.480 --> 00:20:20.830
The same way you hold onto your phone
00:20:20.840 --> 00:20:22.030
device.
00:20:22.040 --> 00:20:24.830
>> Well, I think some very smart companies
00:20:24.840 --> 00:20:28.030
like Nvidia and Microsoft are seeing
00:20:28.040 --> 00:20:29.790
the writing on the wall and seeing this
00:20:29.800 --> 00:20:32.750
market that's that's developing for
00:20:32.760 --> 00:20:35.190
local AI for all consumers, but
00:20:35.200 --> 00:20:37.310
businesses and
00:20:37.320 --> 00:20:39.230
I think it's coming coming quick.
00:20:39.240 --> 00:20:40.550
>> Yeah. And
00:20:40.560 --> 00:20:41.350
>> it's coming quick.
00:20:41.360 --> 00:20:42.950
>> It is and
00:20:42.960 --> 00:20:44.150
you know,
00:20:44.160 --> 00:20:45.670
I I also think that we're going to see
00:20:45.680 --> 00:20:47.870
more
00:20:47.880 --> 00:20:49.670
software competitor I think we're going
00:20:49.680 --> 00:20:51.830
to see other competitors in our space
00:20:51.840 --> 00:20:53.590
that are
00:20:53.600 --> 00:20:57.150
I don't know if man, you know, like I
00:20:57.160 --> 00:20:59.990
love Ignition as a product. I just I see
00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:02.590
people that are getting smart about it
00:21:02.600 --> 00:21:03.870
and and you're seeing some
00:21:03.880 --> 00:21:05.510
competitiveness
00:21:05.520 --> 00:21:08.830
Um, that space, you know, in in terms of
00:21:08.840 --> 00:21:10.390
um, I wouldn't say middleware, but we'll
00:21:10.400 --> 00:21:13.190
say data orchestration and IoT products.
00:21:13.200 --> 00:21:13.950
I think you're going to see a
00:21:13.960 --> 00:21:15.550
combination of those that are start
00:21:15.560 --> 00:21:17.550
coming. Uh, give me an example, if I
00:21:17.560 --> 00:21:21.390
look at somebody like Highbyte, HiveMQ,
00:21:21.400 --> 00:21:24.670
uh, Fuse, Flow, they all have this
00:21:24.680 --> 00:21:26.150
orchestration piece that they operate
00:21:26.160 --> 00:21:27.630
in. Barbara, everybody's got these
00:21:27.640 --> 00:21:30.070
orchestration pieces. I see that in
00:21:30.080 --> 00:21:33.510
combination with an IoT SCADA platform.
00:21:33.520 --> 00:21:35.350
Yeah, it's just one of my thinking.
00:21:35.360 --> 00:21:35.950
>> Yeah.
00:21:35.960 --> 00:21:38.270
>> I actually have a had a talk uh,
00:21:38.280 --> 00:21:40.670
scheduled yesterday with Flow Fuse and I
00:21:40.680 --> 00:21:42.470
had to push that another week cuz I was
00:21:42.480 --> 00:21:44.070
like, you know,
00:21:44.080 --> 00:21:46.830
I I love Node-RED, but I need to get up
00:21:46.840 --> 00:21:48.750
to date on what you guys are doing and
00:21:48.760 --> 00:21:49.230
>> Yeah.
00:21:49.240 --> 00:21:51.670
>> I think there's a huge fit probably in
00:21:51.680 --> 00:21:53.430
some of the things I'm doing, especially
00:21:53.440 --> 00:21:55.150
orchestrating. So, that's one of the
00:21:55.160 --> 00:21:57.350
drawbacks of Node-RED, it's like, okay,
00:21:57.360 --> 00:21:58.950
you can customize
00:21:58.960 --> 00:22:00.150
you can have custom code running
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:01.990
everywhere, but that's not that doesn't
00:22:02.000 --> 00:22:04.710
really maintain very well, so.
00:22:04.720 --> 00:22:05.390
>> Yeah.
00:22:05.400 --> 00:22:06.070
>> You know, the other thing, too,
00:22:06.080 --> 00:22:07.190
Jonathan, I don't know what's going to
00:22:07.200 --> 00:22:08.630
be done. I want to ask you this, maybe
00:22:08.640 --> 00:22:10.030
you know. One of the things that's been
00:22:10.040 --> 00:22:11.870
on my mind is if we're going to run to
00:22:11.880 --> 00:22:14.390
edge compute and other things, there
00:22:14.400 --> 00:22:15.950
seems to be a limit, especially when
00:22:15.960 --> 00:22:17.990
you're familiar with like a Java heap,
00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:19.910
which is the sizing inside of these edge
00:22:19.920 --> 00:22:21.350
devices, so they create all these little
00:22:21.360 --> 00:22:23.030
sidecar
00:22:23.040 --> 00:22:24.390
products.
00:22:24.400 --> 00:22:26.470
They're they're kind of powerful and I'm
00:22:26.480 --> 00:22:28.430
wondering if that's going to get better,
00:22:28.440 --> 00:22:32.070
you know, get more powerful at the edge.
00:22:32.080 --> 00:22:35.670
Um,
00:22:35.680 --> 00:22:38.350
I'm not sure how that's innovating right
00:22:38.360 --> 00:22:41.870
now. Um, I know that there've been many
00:22:41.880 --> 00:22:44.750
of machine learning type technologies
00:22:44.760 --> 00:22:47.270
like tinyML where you could make it run
00:22:47.280 --> 00:22:48.150
on a
00:22:48.160 --> 00:22:50.830
tiny microcontroller, but
00:22:50.840 --> 00:22:52.590
some of the things people are after
00:22:52.600 --> 00:22:55.270
really takes a lot more intelligence.
00:22:55.280 --> 00:22:55.630
>> Yeah.
00:22:55.640 --> 00:22:58.190
>> Um, I think my fingers are crossed that
00:22:58.200 --> 00:23:00.030
there's going to be some new innovation
00:23:00.040 --> 00:23:03.710
that can reduce the size of models
00:23:03.720 --> 00:23:05.670
dramatically. Otherwise,
00:23:05.680 --> 00:23:08.430
cuz the size and the power needs are
00:23:08.440 --> 00:23:09.470
just
00:23:09.480 --> 00:23:12.070
kind of linearly growing up, and they're
00:23:12.080 --> 00:23:13.990
still trying to push it just with more
00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:15.790
power and more
00:23:15.800 --> 00:23:16.790
um
00:23:16.800 --> 00:23:20.110
that will only go so far. But, um
00:23:20.120 --> 00:23:21.830
there is a new one called like Jev that
00:23:21.840 --> 00:23:22.590
came out
00:23:22.600 --> 00:23:23.030
>> Yeah.
00:23:23.040 --> 00:23:24.590
>> a few weeks ago. I'm like, this sounds
00:23:24.600 --> 00:23:26.470
cool, but every time someone explains
00:23:26.480 --> 00:23:28.230
it, it seems
00:23:28.240 --> 00:23:30.230
a little cryptic, but seems a little bit
00:23:30.240 --> 00:23:33.070
like uh you know, but um
00:23:33.080 --> 00:23:34.190
there's
00:23:34.200 --> 00:23:35.870
a lot of innovation happening, and it's
00:23:35.880 --> 00:23:38.110
happening faster than
00:23:38.120 --> 00:23:39.790
I can imagine. I hate that I'm on the
00:23:39.800 --> 00:23:41.670
bandwagon now, but I'm pretty excited
00:23:41.680 --> 00:23:42.630
about
00:23:42.640 --> 00:23:43.870
>> Yeah, I think you always got to be
00:23:43.880 --> 00:23:44.590
careful.
00:23:44.600 --> 00:23:46.510
>> is actually better when I have some
00:23:46.520 --> 00:23:47.270
help.
00:23:47.280 --> 00:23:47.830
>> Oh, yeah.
00:23:47.840 --> 00:23:48.510
>> So.
00:23:48.520 --> 00:23:50.350
>> Oh, yeah. So, you're right. I I I'm on
00:23:50.360 --> 00:23:52.630
the same bandwagon, uh you know, in
00:23:52.640 --> 00:23:54.550
terms of artificial intelligence, where
00:23:54.560 --> 00:23:56.910
it plays inside the organization. You
00:23:56.920 --> 00:23:58.630
know, at Opsite, we're doing the same
00:23:58.640 --> 00:24:00.350
thing. Uh the the company is doing the
00:24:00.360 --> 00:24:02.350
same thing with alarm management,
00:24:02.360 --> 00:24:03.910
creating what we're going to call it a
00:24:03.920 --> 00:24:07.270
twin to Azure, and then using um
00:24:07.280 --> 00:24:09.270
a large language model for uh alarm
00:24:09.280 --> 00:24:10.870
management that is not replacing the
00:24:10.880 --> 00:24:13.110
operator. That is a way so that we can
00:24:13.120 --> 00:24:14.630
predict and recommend.
00:24:14.640 --> 00:24:15.030
>> Right.
00:24:15.040 --> 00:24:16.110
>> Right. I think those those are the
00:24:16.120 --> 00:24:18.910
routes that that we're going, and so
00:24:18.920 --> 00:24:20.350
we're going to see some growth, and I'm
00:24:20.360 --> 00:24:23.630
excited about that. And I I want to say,
00:24:23.640 --> 00:24:25.230
you know, Jonathan, thank you for being
00:24:25.240 --> 00:24:26.990
on the show for a minute. I do want to
00:24:27.000 --> 00:24:28.350
keep you for a lot longer,
00:24:28.360 --> 00:24:28.830
>> Oh, no.
00:24:28.840 --> 00:24:31.590
>> but um at the same time, um I am going
00:24:31.600 --> 00:24:33.790
to see you on the 22nd. Again, you can
00:24:33.800 --> 00:24:36.230
catch us there at IOGC. It's going to be
00:24:36.240 --> 00:24:38.830
a great a great deal. Uh Jonathan again
00:24:38.840 --> 00:24:41.990
will be demoing his use of MCP there,
00:24:42.000 --> 00:24:44.030
and the leverage with Ignition.
00:24:44.040 --> 00:24:46.550
And with that, I'm your host for today,
00:24:46.560 --> 00:24:48.910
Mike Floudas, on the Energy Tech Podcast
00:24:48.920 --> 00:24:51.270
right here at Indelec in the fall
00:24:51.280 --> 00:24:54.870
series, and Mr. Jonathan [music] Hoddle
00:24:54.880 --> 00:24:56.430
of Electron Automation. Good to have you
00:24:56.440 --> 00:24:57.150
here, man.
00:24:57.160 --> 00:24:58.670
>> It's been good. Thanks, Mike.
00:24:58.680 --> 00:25:01.840
>> You're welcome. It's good to have you.
