WEBVTT
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Hello, friends.
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Thanks for joining us.
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And if you are new to Elegantly Unhinged, I'm so glad you're here.
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And well, you picked a great first episode because today we are talking about something I suspect a whole lot of women listening to this are doing without even realizing that they're doing it.
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And let me know if any of this sounds familiar.
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You're the one who remembers everything.
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You anticipate what everyone needs before they even need it or know they need it.
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At work, you're the person people know will get it done.
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At home, you're keeping track of appointments, the schedules, scheduling all the appointments, handling the groceries, checking the emotional temperature of the room, and probably know where everyone left their damn shoes.
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So you don't necessarily think of this or of yourself as overwhelmed, but you may think I'm capable, I'm responsible, and I'm just really good at handling shit.
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And you probably are.
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But what if the very thing that you're proud of, your ability to handle absolutely everything, is also quietly draining the life out of you?
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And that is what we're talking about today: overfunctioning.
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Specifically, what happens when being the woman who can handle everything becomes the woman who is expected to handle everything and handling everything by herself.
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And I have the perfect person here to talk about this with me.
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My guest today is my dear friend Dr.
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Sarah Nielsen.
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Sarah is a leadership and performance coach, facilitator, and psychologist who has spent more than 20 years studying and working with people around leadership, relationships, communication, and performance.
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She was a tenured professor whose teaching and research focused on things like leadership development, group dynamics, interpersonal communication, supportive work relationships, and team effectiveness.
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Today she coaches leaders, executives, and other professionals using behavioral science, self-awareness, and evidence-based strategies to help people perform well, but also importantly, live well.
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So, Sarah, welcome to Elegantly Unhinged.
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I am so excited we get to chat about all things overfunctioning today, what it looks like, sneaky reasons that we might do this, and why sometimes the intervention might actually be to put some things down.
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So are you ready to dive in?
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I am.
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Thank you so much for such a generous welcome.
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I'm excited to be here.
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We are very excited to have you.
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Okay.
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So when we talk about someone being an overfunctioner, what does this actually look like?
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Because I think a lot of women listening probably think, I'm not overfunctioning, I'm just responsible and I'm getting it all done.
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And I need to do all this, I need to get it all done.
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So let's start with what does overfunctioning look like at work and in someone's personal life?
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Good question.
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So I think part of the definition itself can sometimes lead us to misconstrue it.
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So what I mean by that is that overfunctioning starts by being a highly functioning person.
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And so you're responsible for a lot of things because you're good at it.
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And so you end up taking on a lot, whether that's uh by choice or or otherwise, right?
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It's just part of the job.
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And the problem is that it accumulates slowly over time.
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And as we'll kind of talk about this episode, I think there are a lot of different factors, in particular for women our age, that makes it particularly difficult.
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Um, and then when you know you just have one thing too many, the bow starts to break and you start to feel some of the anxiety from it and all the other consequences of it.
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But at first, it starts off pretty benign.
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I'm just really good at what I do.
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And then it becomes a problem, right?
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And I think that distinction is really important.
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We're doing what we think we need to do and we are good at it at balancing all of those different things.
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We're not saying being ambitious or capable or busy is pathological.
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There's nothing wrong in that.
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Um, but there is a difference between I can handle a lot and I don't feel safe unless I'm handling everything.
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I I see that in a lot of women.
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I'm sure I know that you do.
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So, kind of where is that line between I'm handling everything well and need to handle everything so I can stay in control?
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Yeah, I do see it a lot.
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And I know that we've talked about it personally, the two of us, and I also see it in almost every female client, particularly of a certain age.
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It's um it's ubiquitous, right?
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So, what's the line?
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And I think the line, of course, matters and and uh depends on the person, but it's problematic when it becomes compulsive, right?
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So you're doing it without even any intentional thought.
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I think that's one sign.
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Two, it's problematic because it's out of proportion.
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It seems excessive more than like think about some of the other people in your lives, particularly if you're if you're partnered, when you think about the amount of what I would call invisible labor, which is kind of what we're talking about here, right?
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How much are they doing compared to you, right?
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Now I'm not saying that you need to add up tasks and compare your lists, but does it seem particularly out of proportion?
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Okay, that's another sign.
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And I think another one is to what extent is it costing you meeting your own needs?
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If you don't feel good physically, emotionally, whatever, that's a big sign too.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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So here's another question.
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Do we tend to, and saying we as in women being collective, um, and we do have some male listeners, but I think you know, we're we're speaking mostly to women overfunctioning.
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Do we do you find that women usually know when they're overfunctioning?
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Does it just initially feel like everyone else is underfunctioning to your point if we're looking at those lists and you're doing a lot more?
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So how do we know whether we're overfunctioning, people pleasing?
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That's a great that's a good question.
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So, how do you know?
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And I'll be honest with you, a lot of the women that I see as clients, and they're they're leaders of all different levels, right?
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So I work with people who are new to managing and leading others, and I and I coach people who have been leading people for many years, all different industries.
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It's not age-specific or industry specific, right?
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This is just kind of a common thing.
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So, what they typically present with is the feeling of never being able to catch up.
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So they may not necessarily be able to identify and clarify, oh, you know, Rema, I'm overfunctioning.
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Like, I don't really hear that.
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What I hear is I'm overwhelmed.
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I've got so many things I can never catch up, I can never make headway on my to-dos.
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I feel like I'm failing, I'm never doing it well enough.
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So that's the kind of thing that I end up hearing from a lot of clients.
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Like, how do I manage this?
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And even sometimes, you know, it it's impossible, I think, to completely tease apart your personal and professional, right?
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So typically when I meet with somebody, it's under professional circumstances.
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But it's always, it always bleeds together.
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Usually there's other conditions going on, you know, they're they've got difficulties in their marriage, or they're taking care of aging parents, or who knows, could be anything.
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But it ends up, I think, kind of adding to this ever-growing pile of responsibilities, and it just doesn't feel good.
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Yeah.
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You and I have talked about this a lot on our own, off camera.
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Um, but we've talked about the people-pleasing aspect.
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And do you think this is lends itself to this overfunctioning?
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Do you see a lot of women who are people pleasing and we're not fitted in midlife?
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Do you kind of see see that more at this time of life?
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For sure.
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Yeah.
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I think there's probably a variety of reasons that women in particular kind of tend towards this higher level of invisible labor and and this overfunctioning, one of which is the people pleasing.
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Women tend to be, whether it's just expectation or because there's genetic propensity for it, that's a different conversation.
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But women tend towards people pleasing, right?
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We want to take care of the people around us.
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Um, and we do that pretty naturally, most of us.
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It's a natural outcropping of being a mom or um being a caregiver, right?
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So that's definitely part of it.
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You want to put people around you at ease.
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And in fact, you know, we see this a lot in the workplace too.
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There's even research showing that women tend to, when we talk about like, for instance, what we call organizational citizenship behaviors, those are all the behaviors that employees are kind of expected to do, but would you wouldn't necessarily find it in a job description, right?
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So it's all the other things like being a team player or um helping out a teammate on this or that, or staying a little late for this, bringing the bringing food to the um Monday morning meeting, right?
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Those are things that are kind of part of this OCB or citizenship behaviors.
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And women tend to kind of volunteer for and take on those behaviors at higher rates than men do.
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We just do.
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And those aren't necessarily things that we're asked to do.
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We just do it.
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Sometimes we're asked to, and when we are, we usually say yes, but typically we volunteer at much higher rates than others.
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So it's definitely part of that people-pleasing kind of model, wanting to be a good person, a good contributor, all of that.
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Yeah, I think there's a piece of not wanting to disappoint other people.
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I think to your point of yeah, we don't go to bed and then wake up the next morning and think, you know what sounds fun, being responsible for everyone's emotional and logistical well-being.
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We don't consciously do it, but I think there is that piece of the people pleasing and the really not wanting to disappoint other people.
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Um I know I feel that personally.
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So then we start to take on more than is our share.
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Um, and I think that you know, it it there's also a piece of liking being needed.
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It feels good to take care of other people until it doesn't, until it's too much.
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Um, I think for a long time many of us being competent worked, right?
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Being low maintenance and not needing much worked, anticipating what other people needed, worked, anticipating the mature one, or even controlling that environment kind of helped to keep us feeling safe.
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You know, I'm really curious, like what did overfunctioning do for me without even realizing it.
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So, how much of over functioning do you think is that kind of approval piece?
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And how much is about control?
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Where do you see those two pieces kind of come in?
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Oh man, yeah, that's kind of a sneaky one, right?
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Because I think to your point, it often is self-what's the word I'm looking for?
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Self, it's a reassuring cycle, right?
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So when I engage and do something helpful for someone, whether it's a family member or employee or whatever, uh, it feels good.
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It's it's a short-term benefit because it smooths the the wheels of whatever that that process you're involved in, right?
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Makes you feel good to help your family members.
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Um and what it also does is it is reinforcing because it means I don't have to feel the discomfort of saying no.
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It means I don't have to feel the discomfort when somebody is disappointed, especially when it's somebody that's important to you.
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So you're really getting reinforced on two different levels.
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So directly by feeling kind of good about helping, right?
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Always feels good to help other people.
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And you're getting reinforced because you're avoiding a negative consequence.
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So it's like a double whammy in that way.
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It's a really hard thing to do, is to say no or to to just stand your ground, especially when it's somebody that you care about.
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It's even harder, right?
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Or if it's something that you want to do, if it's a volunteer role or something that you are excited about, those are the hard things to say no to.
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Yeah.
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Um agreed.
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And I also think if I am overfunctioning, I'm making sure things are getting done my way and on my timeline.
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And I know another thing you and I have talked about is the cost that overfunctioning has on other people, people that we love and care about and the that we want to take care of and we don't want to see the disappointment from.
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But in this way of overfunctioning, we are potentially preventing other people from experiencing consequences of forgetting something, solving their own problems, sometimes even becoming more confident or confident about doing things themselves.
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Um what do you feel like our overfunctioning can cost the people around us?
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Because I think that's a piece that when we if we can step back and realize, oh, I'm feeling exhausted and overwhelmed, and possibly it's because I am overfunctioning and carrying a large part of the load, which we know women, moms, caretakers, employees, bosses, you know, whatever our role as a woman is, I think that many of us tend to take on all of the extra work because we feel confident about it and kind of want to control a piece of it, or just don't want to let down other people around us and want to keep things moving.
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But I think, you know, if we can step back and realize, oh, I'm doing this, I'm overfunctioning.
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And that is one reason why I am so freaking exhausted.
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There's this piece of, but I still don't want to let it go because I like making sure everything gets done.
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But if we step back and look at, oh, we might actually be hindering the people that we love and care about from learning how to do these things on their own or stepping up to take that responsibility.
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What is this costing those that we love around us or care about what is it costing them?
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Yeah.
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I think it starts to become a oh, you know, maybe I should be letting other people kind of handle some of these things and take some of this off of myself, put some of this down.
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So, you know, I guess what's that difference between genuinely putting something down and just dumping it on someone else and also giving them the space to um learn how to do these things themselves.
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Right, right.
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It's such a good question.
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And in fact, um, you know, that's a frequent topic, I think, a conversation with a lot of my coaching clients is how to essentially kind of delegate, how to delegate well, right?
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So how do I do it?
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Because um, for so many reasons, like you just stated, it's it's difficult for women in particular, but really all leaders to delegate at a certain capacity.
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Because part of what fuels that is you're already good at the thing, like we talked about.
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So you rise to a level of leadership because you're you're great at whatever your skill set is.
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Um, but now you're in a position to where you're leading others and you simply can't do everything.
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There's just not enough time.
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So you have to delegate, right?
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Otherwise, you kind of make yourself crazy, like we're talking about.
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And even personally, it really does cost the people around you opportunity to learn and grow and develop when they see you over functioning and when you're taking on those tasks yourself, right?
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So, personal example, right?
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I went to college with um a variety of students, and the students that were in my suite didn't know how to do laundry.
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I showed them how to do the because I learned a little bit, not that I'm a laundry expert, but so as a minor example, right, their parents, probably their moms in all honesty, were doing their laundry.
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So once they had the opportunity to do it themselves, they were completely without any guidance, right?
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They had no idea how to do it.
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And of course, back then we didn't have YouTube and all of that, so we couldn't watch a video on it like you can now.
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But so that's personal, and there are examples of that in my own life.
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But then professionally, too, you know, the more as a leader I'm taking on these tasks and I'm double checking all these spreadsheets and I'm making sure these graphics are right, I'm I'm taking the opportunity away from my team to learn, okay, what is the process for this?
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What should it look like?
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Um, and frankly, a lot of that is from ease.
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I can do it a lot quicker.
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So I'm just gonna do it and get her done.
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But the problem is that the people that you're leading aren't learning how to do it themselves.
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Same as a parent.
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Your job as a parent is to help develop the people under you in your family.
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Right.
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Yeah.
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I think that's a perfect segue into how this conversation gets especially interesting when we start to look at it from a midlife perspective.
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Many of us have been living this way for years, right?
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For decades.
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If we're looking at midlife, we have been overfunctioning and taking care of people for a long time by this point, right?
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And then I see this in a lot of clients is they um have become so good at overfunctioning.
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And it's not something that we've necessarily talked about in like nutrition counseling, but I do see clients where they've overridden hunger, they've overridden exhaustion, they've overridden stress, not necessarily consciously or even knowing that they've done it, but they keep pushing through.
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And this is a concept of borrowing energy from tomorrow.
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And then you get to midlife, and your body basically is like, no, actually, no, I'm tired, I'm done.
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And we really start to see some of these consequences of carrying this extra load, overfunctioning, the cost that it's costing us, you know, when we're reaching midlife and our bodies are not as we don't have as much energy or even as much patience.
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Um, so I know you work with a lot of female leaders, and I guess as you know, what do you see happening at midlife?
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Um, what's happening at this stage of life when it comes to overfunctioning, and how do you see it in your in your clients, in your life, even?
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Well, so it's interesting.
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I'm so glad that you are talking about this topic on your podcast because, you know, like I was saying earlier, you can't really divorce the personal from the professional because you're a human and they're intricately linked in that way.
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And so when demands on one side get too great, they naturally impact the other, right?
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Whether it's to professional to personal or vice versa.
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So I'll give you an example, actually.
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I've got two clients in particular, one that is a vivid, uh, a fairly recent example, actually.
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So she was um a high-level executive, uh let's see, probably Fortune 250.
00:18:59.860 --> 00:19:01.220
So big company.
00:19:01.380 --> 00:19:04.980
Uh, she had a fairly small team, but had very high scope.
00:19:05.059 --> 00:19:12.819
So she had a lot of responsibility and fairly limited manpower or woman power in this case to get the job done, right?
00:19:12.980 --> 00:19:16.019
So um a lot of pressure to deliver.
00:19:16.900 --> 00:19:22.900
And part of the problem, and what she came to me with was that feeling of kind of overwhelm.
00:19:23.140 --> 00:19:28.420
And not surprisingly, I know you wouldn't be shocked by this, Rima, but she had all kinds of health issues.
00:19:28.740 --> 00:19:39.700
She had um, she started to gain weight, she couldn't lose weight, she was eating unhealthy, she felt terrible, she wasn't sleeping well, she even had like an autoimmune issue that she was struggling with.
00:19:39.779 --> 00:19:44.740
I mean, it was just like uh a whole host of physical issues.
00:19:44.980 --> 00:20:00.259
Now, that's not something I can directly help her with, but it was all kind of part of the same cycle of taking on too much, not drawing the lines, um, and really focusing on the self as opposed to the others.
00:20:00.420 --> 00:20:01.620
And so we made some progress.
00:20:01.779 --> 00:20:06.819
We made some changes to started instituting some boundaries, which, you know, is part of the issue.
00:20:07.059 --> 00:20:12.420
But one thing I know we'll get to probably in a minute is this idea of the system, right?
00:20:12.660 --> 00:20:19.860
So the problem with this is that I can I can tell clients draw boundaries left and right and they'll do it.
00:20:19.940 --> 00:20:27.940
But that only works so far because they're within a system that has been trained to support the overfunctioning of the person.
00:20:28.660 --> 00:20:42.019
So she can try and make all of the changes that she wants to make, but chances are they're gonna be only so effective as long as that system is still kind of expecting her overfunctioning.
00:20:43.299 --> 00:20:56.900
You're talking about this woman that's leading a fortune 250 company, but it's really these kind of the qualities that probably made her very successful are now probably the same qualities that are burning her out and causing these different health problems.
00:20:56.980 --> 00:21:07.299
And it's absolutely not unusual to have the cost of overfunctioning start to show up in the gut, in weight, in cortisol levels going all wonky.
00:21:07.380 --> 00:21:20.099
And yeah, I think that that is a huge piece of kind of the nutrition and health and wellness world that we haven't really been talking about is that overfunctioning and the cost of carrying everything and how it starts to show up in the body.
00:21:20.339 --> 00:21:58.579
And when we're talking about midlife, you start to layer on these decades of doing everything yourself, and then you layer in perimenopause and menopause and fluctuating hormones and crazy cortisol levels, sleep's changing, recovery takes longer, and suddenly a body that we've been ordering around for 20, 30 years starts saying, not not today, you know, I'm going to show up in the form of GI distress or the belly weight that's stubborn and you can't get rid of, and low energy levels, and then we start berating ourselves about how our body is this way, and then we feel so bad about it.
00:21:58.660 --> 00:22:05.059
So I think there's all these different layers that get added on paramenopause and menopause, but life certainly don't help.
00:22:05.299 --> 00:22:09.539
And I think a lot of times this tends to be where women get sent a different message.
00:22:09.779 --> 00:22:16.500
A lot of clients that I see, and I'm sure Sarah, you see this too, is you're thinking I need to work harder, I'm not getting enough done.
00:22:17.539 --> 00:22:22.579
My body's changing, I need to exercise more, I need to eat less, be more disciplined.
00:22:22.740 --> 00:22:26.819
And so now we are over functioning and the prescription is more overfunctioning.
00:22:27.140 --> 00:22:27.860
Functioning.
00:22:28.180 --> 00:22:36.099
And we really start to see that metabolic cost of that chronic stress showing up in the body, showing up in our nervous system.
00:22:36.259 --> 00:22:40.660
I think a lot of people might be thinking, okay, Sarah and Rima, like this sounds lovely.
00:22:40.819 --> 00:22:43.940
And maybe I fall in that overfunctioning category.
00:22:44.339 --> 00:22:47.700
But if I don't do everything, nothing will get done.
00:22:47.860 --> 00:22:49.220
So what do you say to her?
00:22:49.380 --> 00:22:56.900
Like, how do you help someone who's overfunctioning believe that things will get done if she stops managing everything?
00:22:57.220 --> 00:22:58.420
Yeah, great question.
00:22:58.660 --> 00:23:00.019
And that's a hard one, right?
00:23:00.099 --> 00:23:09.700
It's the same kind of part of it is the same kind of uh thought process you go through when you're delegating tasks at work, right?
00:23:09.860 --> 00:23:11.940
So will it get done?
00:23:12.339 --> 00:23:14.180
Yeah, it'll probably get done.
00:23:14.500 --> 00:23:16.660
Will it be done exactly the way you would do it?
00:23:17.059 --> 00:23:18.579
Yeah, almost certainly not.
00:23:18.819 --> 00:23:20.500
Will it be done well enough?
00:23:20.740 --> 00:23:21.620
Possibly.
00:23:21.940 --> 00:23:23.700
And probably, right?
00:23:24.099 --> 00:23:25.620
Will it be done as quickly?
00:23:25.860 --> 00:23:26.420
Probably not.
00:23:26.660 --> 00:23:28.579
So there's an adjustment period.
00:23:28.819 --> 00:23:31.940
It's it is a difficult thing to try and do.
00:23:32.099 --> 00:23:40.180
So you're gonna have to drop some of the balls because you simply aren't capable of doing everything all the time.
00:23:40.660 --> 00:23:45.220
Maybe you're capable of doing everything some of the time, but not all the time.
00:23:45.380 --> 00:23:47.220
And that's just the way it is.
00:23:47.539 --> 00:23:49.779
So the task is on the individual.
00:23:49.940 --> 00:23:51.860
Okay, what's the most important, right?
00:23:51.940 --> 00:23:54.019
What are my biggest rocks in my jar?
00:23:54.180 --> 00:24:10.099
The idea is that if your life is a jar and you fill it with all the things that are fun and easy and you like doing, you're gonna put all the sand in, and pretty soon you're not gonna have room for the big rocks that are really, really important, right?
00:24:10.180 --> 00:24:16.019
And the big rocks are things that are really valuable to you, like family, like your health, like um your relationships.
00:24:16.180 --> 00:24:23.700
So the idea is you put your big rocks in first, and then you start to sprinkle in the sand, and then you pour the water on top of that.
00:24:23.940 --> 00:24:30.980
Because if you fill it with all the other things, you don't have the time and the energy to dedicate to the things that are the most important to you.
00:24:31.140 --> 00:24:35.059
So when you're thinking about these processes, what is the most important to you?
00:24:35.620 --> 00:24:36.579
What is it?
00:24:36.740 --> 00:24:39.059
Is it being at your kids' soccer game?
00:24:39.380 --> 00:24:44.420
Is it, you know, visiting your mom in the home or making sure she gets to her doctor's appointments?
00:24:44.579 --> 00:24:50.740
Or is it that the spreadsheet graphics look perfect for this thing and you can't make a mistake on it?
00:24:50.900 --> 00:24:54.500
Might there be somebody else that you could invite into that task?
00:24:54.660 --> 00:24:56.420
And who would that person be?
00:24:56.819 --> 00:25:02.819
Even better, who might uh benefit from learning that process, right?
00:25:03.460 --> 00:25:08.500
And so that's that's really the nitty-gritty of it is what am I gonna let go?
00:25:08.660 --> 00:25:10.099
What is most important to me?
00:25:10.259 --> 00:25:18.099
And so just getting really super clear on what those big rocks are in your life and then living it.
00:25:18.339 --> 00:25:21.059
And that's the hard part is the making the choices.
00:25:21.299 --> 00:25:30.259
Once you're clear on what they are, the next task is to stand by it and say no, or to hold that boundary.
00:25:30.500 --> 00:25:34.900
And that's the hard part because boundaries exist for a reason.
00:25:35.220 --> 00:25:39.460
Boundaries, your boundaries are there for you, right, to protect you.
00:25:39.539 --> 00:25:40.740
They're not to protect other people.
00:25:40.819 --> 00:25:42.259
So other people aren't gonna like it.
00:25:42.420 --> 00:25:46.660
And the system and the other people are gonna push because that's what they do.
00:25:47.059 --> 00:25:54.420
So you draw a boundary and you get the push and it's uncomfortable, but really that's a sign that it's working.
00:25:54.660 --> 00:25:58.819
And so then the next test is you know, how am I gonna uphold this?
00:25:58.980 --> 00:26:01.620
You gotta kind of stand your ground, and that's that's hard.
00:26:01.700 --> 00:26:06.980
You have to live in the discomfort for a moment while the system kind of readjusts around you.
00:26:07.299 --> 00:26:07.779
That's great.
00:26:08.019 --> 00:26:13.539
So this so the overfunctioning, I mean, Nestle, we we can't keep going at that pace.
00:26:13.700 --> 00:26:17.539
Something, something has to give at some point if you are feeling that cost.
00:26:17.860 --> 00:26:22.099
Your body is telling you, your nervous system is telling you, I can't hold all of this.
00:26:22.339 --> 00:26:31.700
So it's really figuring out what are your priorities, what are the things that are really important to you, and what are the things that you can let go of.
00:26:31.860 --> 00:26:36.900
Maybe it's letting go of some of those other things that aren't those priorities that aren't those big rocks, like you mentioned.
00:26:37.380 --> 00:26:40.420
So letting them go, putting up your boundaries.
00:26:40.579 --> 00:26:44.819
You know, some of those emotions that come up are like you mentioned, it doesn't feel good, right?
00:26:44.980 --> 00:26:47.860
And people are going to push against that boundary.
00:26:48.099 --> 00:26:51.140
If they weren't gonna push against it, we probably wouldn't need a boundary there in the first place.
00:26:51.380 --> 00:26:51.779
Exactly.
00:26:52.099 --> 00:26:57.700
So yeah, putting up that boundary and knowing that it is going to feel uncomfortable.
00:26:57.860 --> 00:27:01.779
And I think that that's really hard to do as well.
00:27:02.339 --> 00:27:11.059
And I think it's really important from that nervous system perspective, just knowing that feeling uncomfortable doesn't mean you're doing something wrong.
00:27:12.660 --> 00:27:24.819
Pushing against that boundary does not mean you are doing something wrong, and just really starting to protect ourselves, giving our nervous systems that um permission to say it's okay to feel uncomfortable in this moment.
00:27:25.299 --> 00:27:35.059
Because I think when we're accustomed to saying yes, saying no really starts to initiate that activation, like it it really kind of activates the a lot of us.
00:27:35.140 --> 00:27:37.059
Like it it hurts, it's uncomfortable.
00:27:37.380 --> 00:27:54.019
And I think when we're used to fixing other people's problems, coming in to save the day, do things the way that we want them to, so we know that the people we love and care for are taken care of, it can also be really painful to sometimes watch other people struggle when we put those boundaries up and we say no.
00:27:54.420 --> 00:27:58.180
Affect it and maybe have strategies to anticipate it.
00:27:58.339 --> 00:27:59.860
So, how are you gonna handle this?
00:28:00.019 --> 00:28:03.380
How are you gonna help yourself kind of manage that stress?
00:28:04.099 --> 00:28:19.220
I mean, you know, the other part of the systematic response to if we have a minute, is to I think not only is it incumbent on the person to set and hold the boundaries, holding is the hard part, but it's also incumbent on the system, right?
00:28:19.299 --> 00:28:22.740
So the people around her are allowing it to happen.
00:28:22.980 --> 00:28:27.220
So for instance, as uh a leader, I need to look at my team.
00:28:27.380 --> 00:28:30.579
Who around me is probably overfunctioning right now?
00:28:30.740 --> 00:28:33.539
You can probably see it if you pay attention, right?
00:28:33.779 --> 00:28:38.900
So who's doing a pretty extraordinary amount of this invisible labor?
00:28:38.980 --> 00:28:42.180
Or maybe it's not even so invisible, maybe it's pretty visible.
00:28:42.339 --> 00:28:43.140
Who's doing it?
00:28:43.299 --> 00:28:44.900
How can I support this person?
00:28:45.059 --> 00:28:46.579
Especially if you know them personally.
00:28:46.660 --> 00:28:48.259
Like what's going on in their personal lives?
00:28:48.500 --> 00:28:50.900
You know, are they taking care of a pay of a parent?
00:28:51.059 --> 00:28:54.019
Do they have a high needs kid or do they have multiple kids?
00:28:54.099 --> 00:28:58.259
Like what kind of season of life are they in and how can I help support them?
00:28:58.420 --> 00:28:59.940
So there's that part.
00:29:00.259 --> 00:29:07.140
And then the other part too is even kind of broader because part of the problem, you know, I was actually just reviewing this not too long ago, is a study.
00:29:07.220 --> 00:29:09.380
It was kind of old, it's like 2005.
00:29:09.700 --> 00:29:18.660
And women, not only do they volunteer for more at work, but they also are punished at higher rates when they don't volunteer.
00:29:18.900 --> 00:29:21.700
So men and women can do the same thing.
00:29:22.019 --> 00:29:23.700
Men get extra credit for it.
00:29:23.779 --> 00:29:27.860
Like it's it's the equivalent to the man getting credit for babysitting his own kids.
00:29:28.019 --> 00:29:32.259
And when they don't do it, when the man and the woman both say, Yeah, no, I can't do this.
00:29:32.420 --> 00:29:37.860
Sorry, the woman is the one who's punished for not being the good citizen, not the man.
00:29:38.180 --> 00:29:44.500
So there is an actual cost sometimes to saying no, which is part of that kind of calculus.
00:29:44.660 --> 00:29:46.099
What am I willing to let go of?
00:29:46.259 --> 00:29:53.299
And so that system around her can help her, I think, support her in those choices and listen to what the person is saying.
00:29:53.460 --> 00:29:58.500
So that's not just on her to hold the boundary because that can be really hard, like we were just saying.
00:29:59.220 --> 00:30:03.460
Oh so much in there, Sarah, that you just talked about.
00:30:03.700 --> 00:30:15.860
Yeah, I love that you brought that up from a leadership perspective because there are a lot of listeners who do manage other people are in leadership positions, and they are overfunctioning maybe at home and possibly at work.
00:30:16.099 --> 00:30:25.299
There's this nuance you can work on your own overfunctioning, but also at the same time be supporting other women who are overfunctioning as well.
00:30:25.460 --> 00:30:29.700
And and that supporting doesn't mean you are taking on their work.
00:30:29.860 --> 00:30:38.099
That's you know, learning how to put up those boundaries for yourself, but still you can be supporting other women and helping them not overfunction.
00:30:38.180 --> 00:30:40.099
And I think sometimes that's probably easier, right?
00:30:40.180 --> 00:30:43.140
It's easier to look at someone else and say, You're doing too much.
00:30:43.460 --> 00:30:58.900
Let's look at how to take some of this off of your plate, but knowing it doesn't have to come onto our plate, we don't have to take that in, internalize it, and carry that for them, but we can help them really see like how to take some of it off of their plates as well.
00:30:59.140 --> 00:31:01.779
And so I love that piece.
00:31:01.940 --> 00:31:03.380
Um thank you for sharing that.
00:31:03.460 --> 00:31:13.380
And I don't want as someone to finish this episode and think, okay, I need to quit my job, abandon my family, move, I don't know, somewhere on the coast of Scotland, Ireland, Europe somewhere.
00:31:13.539 --> 00:31:15.700
Um, although that sounds greed sometimes.
00:31:16.019 --> 00:31:17.620
It does sound lovely, actually.
00:31:18.420 --> 00:31:23.220
So maybe we need to all go there together and talk and work on overfunctioning.
00:31:23.299 --> 00:31:30.339
But I think it's really kind of starting to talk about those small places where we can begin to interrupt that pattern, where we can start to put up those boundaries.
00:31:30.500 --> 00:31:35.299
I think some of the things that come to my mind are things like pausing before automatically saying yes.
00:31:35.620 --> 00:31:40.180
I think it's very easy as moms, as employees, as bosses, say yes.
00:31:40.339 --> 00:31:51.539
So just starting to kind of pause, letting another adult, whether that's a partner, another family member, or an employee, remember something on their own and let them solve their own problems.
00:31:51.700 --> 00:31:54.180
So we're not only remember it, but let them solve their own problem.
00:31:54.339 --> 00:32:07.299
You know, even from like a nutrition standpoint, dietitian hat on, like eating lunch before finishing the work, or even changing your workout because you slept four hours and your energy is not as high.
00:32:07.460 --> 00:32:15.220
So, you know, really just asking whose responsibility is this to actually do I have to take this on, and letting someone be mildly disappointed.
00:32:15.380 --> 00:32:22.099
And sometimes it's choosing good enough for something that it really does not need or expect or expertise on.
00:32:22.420 --> 00:32:22.819
Yeah.
00:32:23.220 --> 00:32:28.900
Every time you hear yourself think it's easier if I just do it, just kind of noticing that.
00:32:29.299 --> 00:32:32.980
Um and sometimes it's not even making yourself change it yet.
00:32:33.140 --> 00:32:36.339
I think it's just kind of noticing what am I taking over?
00:32:36.500 --> 00:32:39.460
What am I taking responsibility for that I don't necessarily need to?
00:32:39.779 --> 00:32:43.140
What do I think would happen if I didn't do this?
00:32:43.299 --> 00:32:45.299
And then what yeah, what is this costing me?
00:32:45.460 --> 00:32:47.380
And sometimes what is it costing the other person?
00:32:47.620 --> 00:32:59.940
Any other tips on how we can stop making over functioning that unofficial job requirement that competent women tend to take on or think that they need to do.
00:33:01.380 --> 00:33:02.740
So, yeah, I agree.
00:33:02.900 --> 00:33:04.180
I mean, there's definitely hope.
00:33:04.339 --> 00:33:06.019
There's definitely changes that you can make.
00:33:06.099 --> 00:33:22.259
And I think that the more we start with your piece of advice to notice, because that awareness is the first step, I think, because once you notice and you can attend to it, then you can be intentional about how you want to respond to it.
00:33:22.500 --> 00:33:27.140
So noticing it first, and then practicing a pause.
00:33:27.620 --> 00:33:30.660
Uh, you know, practicing the pause, it can be uncomfortable.
00:33:30.900 --> 00:33:38.420
Chances are the pause doesn't feel as long to others as it might to you when you're being asked for something.
00:33:38.579 --> 00:33:40.500
Um, but yeah, practice a pause.
00:33:40.579 --> 00:33:45.860
Okay, is this something that I, you know, is this my fire that I need to put out?
00:33:46.180 --> 00:33:49.779
Um, can I bring somebody else in to help me put out the fire?
00:33:49.940 --> 00:33:51.460
Or is this somebody else's fire?
00:33:51.620 --> 00:33:53.299
Maybe it's not a fire at all.
00:33:53.620 --> 00:33:53.940
Right?
00:33:54.019 --> 00:33:56.900
So just taking a second to kind of think about that.
00:33:57.140 --> 00:34:03.140
And then also, you know, from a systems perspective, who else around you is probably experiencing this as well?
00:34:03.299 --> 00:34:06.019
And how can we look out, I think, for each other?
00:34:06.180 --> 00:34:07.940
We can definitely make headway.
00:34:08.099 --> 00:34:13.460
But I think at the heart of all of this that we're talking about is this idea of intentionality.
00:34:13.699 --> 00:34:22.339
So being super clear on what is really important to me and how can I be intentional about following through on that.
00:34:22.500 --> 00:34:31.139
And sometimes it's a matter of small tweaks, and you know, you don't necessarily need to quit your job and move to Tahiti, but um chances are small too.
00:34:31.299 --> 00:34:33.539
Yeah, it sounds delightful actually.
00:34:33.699 --> 00:34:39.059
Um, but yeah, sometimes just small tweaks can really help and make a difference.
00:34:40.019 --> 00:34:41.380
Yeah, that's great.
00:34:41.860 --> 00:34:42.179
Okay.
00:34:42.340 --> 00:34:44.740
So just being more intentional, really pausing.
00:34:44.820 --> 00:34:48.340
Is this my you know, get an accountability partner, you know?
00:34:48.579 --> 00:34:53.219
So, you know, if Raymond's, if you're my accountability partner, you know, we're gonna check in with each other.
00:34:53.380 --> 00:34:57.539
Okay, I know that you said you weren't gonna volunteer for such and such, or that you're gonna get this off your plate.
00:34:57.619 --> 00:34:58.900
Did how did that go?
00:34:59.539 --> 00:34:59.860
Right?
00:35:00.099 --> 00:35:03.139
I mean, sometimes it can be helpful to have an accountability partner.
00:35:03.619 --> 00:35:04.659
We have workout buddies.
00:35:04.820 --> 00:35:05.699
I think that that's great.
00:35:05.860 --> 00:35:14.420
It is full body wellness, you know, like uh helping to keep ourselves safe and functioning well and just healthy overall.
00:35:14.900 --> 00:35:18.900
Okay, so I want to end with the same question for both of us.
00:35:19.219 --> 00:35:24.659
What is one thing you wish every exhausted midlife woman would put down this week?
00:35:26.340 --> 00:35:27.539
That's a good one.
00:35:33.059 --> 00:35:37.219
I would say I I have a lot of clients who do this.
00:35:37.380 --> 00:35:39.380
They show up and they say should.
00:35:39.940 --> 00:35:42.500
I should, she should, we should.
00:35:42.820 --> 00:35:46.420
I would say just stop stop shooting.
00:35:47.219 --> 00:35:48.659
Stop shooting all over yourself.
00:35:48.820 --> 00:35:51.860
Like just stop just stop shooting, just stop it.
00:35:52.019 --> 00:35:53.940
Um, just just put that down.
00:35:54.019 --> 00:36:02.659
Because that right there, I think, is at the heart of a lot of judgment and blame and it leads to the self-criticism and criticism of others.
00:36:02.740 --> 00:36:03.780
So I would say that.
00:36:04.019 --> 00:36:07.380
And you're not alone, of course, to everybody at our age, Tessa.
00:36:07.619 --> 00:36:09.300
That's why we're talking about it on a podcast.
00:36:09.539 --> 00:36:10.659
That's right, that's right.
00:36:11.300 --> 00:36:11.699
That's great.
00:36:11.780 --> 00:36:13.059
Stop shitting on yourself.
00:36:13.300 --> 00:36:25.539
I think my one thing I'd want exhausted midlife women to put down this week is feeling guilty about their bodies, not looking or being exactly how we think they should or wish that they were.
00:36:25.860 --> 00:36:28.340
Bodies work really hard for us every day.
00:36:28.500 --> 00:36:32.579
And I think that we, or at least I, you know, forget that.
00:36:32.740 --> 00:36:37.860
And so it's so easy to beat ourselves up, judge and criticize ourselves, like you just said with the shitting.
00:36:38.099 --> 00:36:42.420
Let's stop arrating our bodies and just take a moment to appreciate all the ways that they carry us.
00:36:42.659 --> 00:36:50.099
Okay, so we're not giving you our listeners, we're not giving you a giant list of things you're supposed to do to become healthier, calmer, a better version of yourself.
00:36:50.260 --> 00:36:53.860
It's really just kind of noticing what am I automatically carrying?
00:36:54.099 --> 00:36:59.139
Like Sarah said, where the fires, maybe it's not even a fire, maybe we need support if it is a fire.
00:36:59.219 --> 00:37:03.619
Um permission, giving yourself permission to let other people be disappointed.
00:37:04.099 --> 00:37:07.619
Putting up those boundaries and learning to be disappointed.
00:37:07.940 --> 00:37:21.860
And just that next step, putting that one thing down before adding another task, professional wellness, family task, personal, whatever it is, um, putting one thing down before sometimes picking something else up and really focusing on those priorities.
00:37:22.340 --> 00:37:26.980
And yeah, thank you so much for this conversation, Sarah.
00:37:27.300 --> 00:37:32.099
Please tell everyone listening today how they can find out more about you and how to work with you.
00:37:32.420 --> 00:37:32.980
Sure, yeah.
00:37:33.059 --> 00:37:34.179
Thank you for mentioning that.
00:37:34.420 --> 00:37:35.619
So I'm on LinkedIn.
00:37:35.780 --> 00:37:39.699
You'll find me at you know, Sarah Nielsen, it's N-I-E-L-S-E-N.
00:37:39.940 --> 00:37:41.380
My business is emotive coaching.
00:37:41.460 --> 00:37:44.659
My website is emotivepc.com.
00:37:45.300 --> 00:37:48.019
And I'm sure you'll have my email or my LinkedIn.
00:37:48.179 --> 00:37:49.300
So just reach out to me there.
00:37:49.380 --> 00:37:50.500
I'd love to talk to you.
00:37:50.900 --> 00:37:52.019
Great, thank you, Sarah.
00:37:52.099 --> 00:37:56.260
And I'll include all of those in the show notes for listeners who are interested in learning more about Sarah.
00:37:56.340 --> 00:38:00.500
She is great at what she does and so happy to have you on the podcast.
00:38:01.219 --> 00:38:01.539
Thank you.
00:38:01.940 --> 00:38:02.980
Likewise.
00:38:03.699 --> 00:38:06.420
So thank you for listening to Elegantly Unhinged.
00:38:06.500 --> 00:38:17.539
If this episode made you think of another woman who's holding up approximately 17 people's lives with one hand while answering emails with the other or trying to cook dinner, send this to her.
00:38:17.619 --> 00:38:23.699
And if this topic resonated with you, stay tuned for a challenge I'm posting in November called Regulate Before You Celebrate.
00:38:23.780 --> 00:38:33.619
It will be 10 days of tips and tricks to get you back in the driver's seat of your own body and health, and maybe some of those boundaries we talked about today before the chaos of the holidays begins.
00:38:33.780 --> 00:38:36.179
So I'll be sharing more about that challenge soon.
00:38:36.579 --> 00:38:36.900
All right.
00:38:37.059 --> 00:38:43.139
Until next time, friends, regulate, nourish yourself well, and sometimes put something the fuck down.
00:38:43.300 --> 00:38:45.219
So I will see you in two weeks.
00:38:45.380 --> 00:38:46.500
Thanks, Sarah.
00:38:46.900 --> 00:38:47.219
Bye.
00:38:47.380 --> 00:38:48.099
It's just so fun.
00:38:48.260 --> 00:38:48.579
Bye.
00:38:48.740 --> 00:38:48.980
Thank you.
00:00:28.100 --> 00:00:29.140
Hello, friends.
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Thanks for joining us.
00:00:30.339 --> 00:00:33.539
And if you are new to Elegantly Unhinged, I'm so glad you're here.
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And well, you picked a great first episode because today we are talking about something I suspect a whole lot of women listening to this are doing without even realizing that they're doing it.
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And let me know if any of this sounds familiar.
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You're the one who remembers everything.
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You anticipate what everyone needs before they even need it or know they need it.
00:00:52.260 --> 00:00:54.740
At work, you're the person people know will get it done.
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At home, you're keeping track of appointments, the schedules, scheduling all the appointments, handling the groceries, checking the emotional temperature of the room, and probably know where everyone left their damn shoes.
00:01:04.739 --> 00:01:14.739
So you don't necessarily think of this or of yourself as overwhelmed, but you may think I'm capable, I'm responsible, and I'm just really good at handling shit.
00:01:14.820 --> 00:01:16.260
And you probably are.
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But what if the very thing that you're proud of, your ability to handle absolutely everything, is also quietly draining the life out of you?
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And that is what we're talking about today: overfunctioning.
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Specifically, what happens when being the woman who can handle everything becomes the woman who is expected to handle everything and handling everything by herself.
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And I have the perfect person here to talk about this with me.
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My guest today is my dear friend Dr.
00:01:41.060 --> 00:01:42.020
Sarah Nielsen.
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Sarah is a leadership and performance coach, facilitator, and psychologist who has spent more than 20 years studying and working with people around leadership, relationships, communication, and performance.
00:01:52.660 --> 00:02:02.260
She was a tenured professor whose teaching and research focused on things like leadership development, group dynamics, interpersonal communication, supportive work relationships, and team effectiveness.
00:02:02.579 --> 00:02:13.379
Today she coaches leaders, executives, and other professionals using behavioral science, self-awareness, and evidence-based strategies to help people perform well, but also importantly, live well.
00:02:13.699 --> 00:02:16.259
So, Sarah, welcome to Elegantly Unhinged.
00:02:16.419 --> 00:02:29.939
I am so excited we get to chat about all things overfunctioning today, what it looks like, sneaky reasons that we might do this, and why sometimes the intervention might actually be to put some things down.
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So are you ready to dive in?
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I am.
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Thank you so much for such a generous welcome.
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I'm excited to be here.
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We are very excited to have you.
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Okay.
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So when we talk about someone being an overfunctioner, what does this actually look like?
00:02:47.859 --> 00:02:54.819
Because I think a lot of women listening probably think, I'm not overfunctioning, I'm just responsible and I'm getting it all done.
00:02:54.979 --> 00:02:57.299
And I need to do all this, I need to get it all done.
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So let's start with what does overfunctioning look like at work and in someone's personal life?
00:03:04.500 --> 00:03:05.699
Good question.
00:03:06.340 --> 00:03:13.060
So I think part of the definition itself can sometimes lead us to misconstrue it.
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So what I mean by that is that overfunctioning starts by being a highly functioning person.
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And so you're responsible for a lot of things because you're good at it.
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And so you end up taking on a lot, whether that's uh by choice or or otherwise, right?
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It's just part of the job.
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And the problem is that it accumulates slowly over time.
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And as we'll kind of talk about this episode, I think there are a lot of different factors, in particular for women our age, that makes it particularly difficult.
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Um, and then when you know you just have one thing too many, the bow starts to break and you start to feel some of the anxiety from it and all the other consequences of it.
00:03:53.619 --> 00:03:55.539
But at first, it starts off pretty benign.
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I'm just really good at what I do.
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And then it becomes a problem, right?
00:04:00.739 --> 00:04:01.299
Yeah.
00:04:01.539 --> 00:04:01.859
Yeah.
00:04:01.939 --> 00:04:04.019
And I think that distinction is really important.
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We're doing what we think we need to do and we are good at it at balancing all of those different things.
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We're not saying being ambitious or capable or busy is pathological.
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There's nothing wrong in that.
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Um, but there is a difference between I can handle a lot and I don't feel safe unless I'm handling everything.
00:04:22.980 --> 00:04:24.819
I I see that in a lot of women.
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I'm sure I know that you do.
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So, kind of where is that line between I'm handling everything well and need to handle everything so I can stay in control?
00:04:35.220 --> 00:04:36.819
Yeah, I do see it a lot.
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And I know that we've talked about it personally, the two of us, and I also see it in almost every female client, particularly of a certain age.
00:04:45.460 --> 00:04:47.780
It's um it's ubiquitous, right?
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So, what's the line?
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And I think the line, of course, matters and and uh depends on the person, but it's problematic when it becomes compulsive, right?
00:04:59.220 --> 00:05:02.259
So you're doing it without even any intentional thought.
00:05:02.420 --> 00:05:03.860
I think that's one sign.
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Two, it's problematic because it's out of proportion.
00:05:07.939 --> 00:05:21.060
It seems excessive more than like think about some of the other people in your lives, particularly if you're if you're partnered, when you think about the amount of what I would call invisible labor, which is kind of what we're talking about here, right?
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How much are they doing compared to you, right?
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Now I'm not saying that you need to add up tasks and compare your lists, but does it seem particularly out of proportion?
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Okay, that's another sign.
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And I think another one is to what extent is it costing you meeting your own needs?
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If you don't feel good physically, emotionally, whatever, that's a big sign too.
00:05:42.020 --> 00:05:43.060
Yeah, absolutely.
00:05:43.300 --> 00:05:44.340
So here's another question.
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Do we tend to, and saying we as in women being collective, um, and we do have some male listeners, but I think you know, we're we're speaking mostly to women overfunctioning.
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Do we do you find that women usually know when they're overfunctioning?
00:05:59.300 --> 00:06:05.939
Does it just initially feel like everyone else is underfunctioning to your point if we're looking at those lists and you're doing a lot more?
00:06:06.020 --> 00:06:09.939
So how do we know whether we're overfunctioning, people pleasing?
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That's a great that's a good question.
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So, how do you know?
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And I'll be honest with you, a lot of the women that I see as clients, and they're they're leaders of all different levels, right?
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So I work with people who are new to managing and leading others, and I and I coach people who have been leading people for many years, all different industries.
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It's not age-specific or industry specific, right?
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This is just kind of a common thing.
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So, what they typically present with is the feeling of never being able to catch up.
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So they may not necessarily be able to identify and clarify, oh, you know, Rema, I'm overfunctioning.
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Like, I don't really hear that.
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What I hear is I'm overwhelmed.
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I've got so many things I can never catch up, I can never make headway on my to-dos.
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I feel like I'm failing, I'm never doing it well enough.
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So that's the kind of thing that I end up hearing from a lot of clients.
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Like, how do I manage this?
00:07:06.980 --> 00:07:13.300
And even sometimes, you know, it it's impossible, I think, to completely tease apart your personal and professional, right?
00:07:13.379 --> 00:07:17.220
So typically when I meet with somebody, it's under professional circumstances.
00:07:17.700 --> 00:07:20.100
But it's always, it always bleeds together.
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Usually there's other conditions going on, you know, they're they've got difficulties in their marriage, or they're taking care of aging parents, or who knows, could be anything.
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But it ends up, I think, kind of adding to this ever-growing pile of responsibilities, and it just doesn't feel good.
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Yeah.
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You and I have talked about this a lot on our own, off camera.
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Um, but we've talked about the people-pleasing aspect.
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And do you think this is lends itself to this overfunctioning?
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Do you see a lot of women who are people pleasing and we're not fitted in midlife?
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Do you kind of see see that more at this time of life?
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For sure.
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Yeah.
00:08:05.780 --> 00:08:18.740
I think there's probably a variety of reasons that women in particular kind of tend towards this higher level of invisible labor and and this overfunctioning, one of which is the people pleasing.
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Women tend to be, whether it's just expectation or because there's genetic propensity for it, that's a different conversation.
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But women tend towards people pleasing, right?
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We want to take care of the people around us.
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Um, and we do that pretty naturally, most of us.
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It's a natural outcropping of being a mom or um being a caregiver, right?
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So that's definitely part of it.
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You want to put people around you at ease.
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And in fact, you know, we see this a lot in the workplace too.
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There's even research showing that women tend to, when we talk about like, for instance, what we call organizational citizenship behaviors, those are all the behaviors that employees are kind of expected to do, but would you wouldn't necessarily find it in a job description, right?
00:09:07.060 --> 00:09:19.139
So it's all the other things like being a team player or um helping out a teammate on this or that, or staying a little late for this, bringing the bringing food to the um Monday morning meeting, right?
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Those are things that are kind of part of this OCB or citizenship behaviors.
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And women tend to kind of volunteer for and take on those behaviors at higher rates than men do.
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We just do.
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And those aren't necessarily things that we're asked to do.
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We just do it.
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Sometimes we're asked to, and when we are, we usually say yes, but typically we volunteer at much higher rates than others.
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So it's definitely part of that people-pleasing kind of model, wanting to be a good person, a good contributor, all of that.
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Yeah, I think there's a piece of not wanting to disappoint other people.
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I think to your point of yeah, we don't go to bed and then wake up the next morning and think, you know what sounds fun, being responsible for everyone's emotional and logistical well-being.
00:10:08.019 --> 00:10:15.460
We don't consciously do it, but I think there is that piece of the people pleasing and the really not wanting to disappoint other people.
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Um I know I feel that personally.
00:10:18.820 --> 00:10:22.659
So then we start to take on more than is our share.
00:10:22.820 --> 00:10:28.259
Um, and I think that you know, it it there's also a piece of liking being needed.
00:10:28.420 --> 00:10:32.500
It feels good to take care of other people until it doesn't, until it's too much.
00:10:32.659 --> 00:10:37.060
Um, I think for a long time many of us being competent worked, right?
00:10:37.220 --> 00:10:49.539
Being low maintenance and not needing much worked, anticipating what other people needed, worked, anticipating the mature one, or even controlling that environment kind of helped to keep us feeling safe.
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You know, I'm really curious, like what did overfunctioning do for me without even realizing it.
00:10:54.580 --> 00:10:59.300
So, how much of over functioning do you think is that kind of approval piece?
00:10:59.460 --> 00:11:01.139
And how much is about control?
00:11:01.460 --> 00:11:04.100
Where do you see those two pieces kind of come in?
00:11:04.740 --> 00:11:08.019
Oh man, yeah, that's kind of a sneaky one, right?
00:11:08.259 --> 00:11:13.220
Because I think to your point, it often is self-what's the word I'm looking for?
00:11:14.019 --> 00:11:16.659
Self, it's a reassuring cycle, right?
00:11:16.899 --> 00:11:24.340
So when I engage and do something helpful for someone, whether it's a family member or employee or whatever, uh, it feels good.
00:11:24.500 --> 00:11:32.740
It's it's a short-term benefit because it smooths the the wheels of whatever that that process you're involved in, right?
00:11:32.980 --> 00:11:35.700
Makes you feel good to help your family members.
00:11:36.019 --> 00:11:44.820
Um and what it also does is it is reinforcing because it means I don't have to feel the discomfort of saying no.
00:11:45.539 --> 00:11:52.500
It means I don't have to feel the discomfort when somebody is disappointed, especially when it's somebody that's important to you.
00:11:52.740 --> 00:11:56.259
So you're really getting reinforced on two different levels.
00:11:56.420 --> 00:12:00.100
So directly by feeling kind of good about helping, right?
00:12:00.340 --> 00:12:01.940
Always feels good to help other people.
00:12:02.180 --> 00:12:05.940
And you're getting reinforced because you're avoiding a negative consequence.
00:12:06.019 --> 00:12:07.700
So it's like a double whammy in that way.
00:12:07.779 --> 00:12:17.779
It's a really hard thing to do, is to say no or to to just stand your ground, especially when it's somebody that you care about.
00:12:17.940 --> 00:12:19.460
It's even harder, right?
00:12:20.500 --> 00:12:29.139
Or if it's something that you want to do, if it's a volunteer role or something that you are excited about, those are the hard things to say no to.
00:12:29.620 --> 00:12:29.940
Yeah.
00:12:30.180 --> 00:12:31.139
Um agreed.
00:12:31.300 --> 00:12:38.019
And I also think if I am overfunctioning, I'm making sure things are getting done my way and on my timeline.
00:12:38.340 --> 00:12:52.580
And I know another thing you and I have talked about is the cost that overfunctioning has on other people, people that we love and care about and the that we want to take care of and we don't want to see the disappointment from.
00:12:52.980 --> 00:13:07.860
But in this way of overfunctioning, we are potentially preventing other people from experiencing consequences of forgetting something, solving their own problems, sometimes even becoming more confident or confident about doing things themselves.
00:13:08.019 --> 00:13:14.659
Um what do you feel like our overfunctioning can cost the people around us?
00:13:14.820 --> 00:13:48.500
Because I think that's a piece that when we if we can step back and realize, oh, I'm feeling exhausted and overwhelmed, and possibly it's because I am overfunctioning and carrying a large part of the load, which we know women, moms, caretakers, employees, bosses, you know, whatever our role as a woman is, I think that many of us tend to take on all of the extra work because we feel confident about it and kind of want to control a piece of it, or just don't want to let down other people around us and want to keep things moving.
00:13:48.659 --> 00:13:53.779
But I think, you know, if we can step back and realize, oh, I'm doing this, I'm overfunctioning.
00:13:54.019 --> 00:13:57.940
And that is one reason why I am so freaking exhausted.
00:13:58.180 --> 00:14:02.100
There's this piece of, but I still don't want to let it go because I like making sure everything gets done.
00:14:02.259 --> 00:14:15.220
But if we step back and look at, oh, we might actually be hindering the people that we love and care about from learning how to do these things on their own or stepping up to take that responsibility.
00:14:15.460 --> 00:14:21.220
What is this costing those that we love around us or care about what is it costing them?
00:14:21.620 --> 00:14:21.779
Yeah.
00:14:21.940 --> 00:14:30.259
I think it starts to become a oh, you know, maybe I should be letting other people kind of handle some of these things and take some of this off of myself, put some of this down.
00:14:30.420 --> 00:14:40.659
So, you know, I guess what's that difference between genuinely putting something down and just dumping it on someone else and also giving them the space to um learn how to do these things themselves.
00:14:40.980 --> 00:14:41.700
Right, right.
00:14:41.860 --> 00:14:43.060
It's such a good question.
00:14:43.300 --> 00:14:55.060
And in fact, um, you know, that's a frequent topic, I think, a conversation with a lot of my coaching clients is how to essentially kind of delegate, how to delegate well, right?
00:14:55.139 --> 00:14:56.180
So how do I do it?
00:14:56.420 --> 00:15:05.220
Because um, for so many reasons, like you just stated, it's it's difficult for women in particular, but really all leaders to delegate at a certain capacity.
00:15:05.379 --> 00:15:09.379
Because part of what fuels that is you're already good at the thing, like we talked about.
00:15:09.460 --> 00:15:15.139
So you rise to a level of leadership because you're you're great at whatever your skill set is.
00:15:15.379 --> 00:15:20.100
Um, but now you're in a position to where you're leading others and you simply can't do everything.
00:15:20.259 --> 00:15:21.539
There's just not enough time.
00:15:21.700 --> 00:15:23.220
So you have to delegate, right?
00:15:23.379 --> 00:15:26.259
Otherwise, you kind of make yourself crazy, like we're talking about.
00:15:26.500 --> 00:15:41.300
And even personally, it really does cost the people around you opportunity to learn and grow and develop when they see you over functioning and when you're taking on those tasks yourself, right?
00:15:41.460 --> 00:15:43.620
So, personal example, right?
00:15:43.779 --> 00:15:52.019
I went to college with um a variety of students, and the students that were in my suite didn't know how to do laundry.
00:15:52.259 --> 00:16:03.620
I showed them how to do the because I learned a little bit, not that I'm a laundry expert, but so as a minor example, right, their parents, probably their moms in all honesty, were doing their laundry.
00:16:03.779 --> 00:16:08.899
So once they had the opportunity to do it themselves, they were completely without any guidance, right?
00:16:08.980 --> 00:16:09.940
They had no idea how to do it.
00:16:10.019 --> 00:16:14.899
And of course, back then we didn't have YouTube and all of that, so we couldn't watch a video on it like you can now.
00:16:15.060 --> 00:16:18.580
But so that's personal, and there are examples of that in my own life.
00:16:18.740 --> 00:16:32.899
But then professionally, too, you know, the more as a leader I'm taking on these tasks and I'm double checking all these spreadsheets and I'm making sure these graphics are right, I'm I'm taking the opportunity away from my team to learn, okay, what is the process for this?
00:16:33.060 --> 00:16:34.500
What should it look like?
00:16:34.820 --> 00:16:38.340
Um, and frankly, a lot of that is from ease.
00:16:38.500 --> 00:16:39.700
I can do it a lot quicker.
00:16:39.860 --> 00:16:42.100
So I'm just gonna do it and get her done.
00:16:42.659 --> 00:16:48.019
But the problem is that the people that you're leading aren't learning how to do it themselves.
00:16:48.340 --> 00:16:49.300
Same as a parent.
00:16:49.460 --> 00:16:54.259
Your job as a parent is to help develop the people under you in your family.
00:16:55.139 --> 00:16:55.379
Right.
00:16:55.539 --> 00:16:55.700
Yeah.
00:16:56.100 --> 00:17:04.980
I think that's a perfect segue into how this conversation gets especially interesting when we start to look at it from a midlife perspective.
00:17:05.299 --> 00:17:07.859
Many of us have been living this way for years, right?
00:17:08.019 --> 00:17:08.420
For decades.
00:17:08.740 --> 00:17:14.899
If we're looking at midlife, we have been overfunctioning and taking care of people for a long time by this point, right?
00:17:15.299 --> 00:17:21.139
And then I see this in a lot of clients is they um have become so good at overfunctioning.
00:17:21.379 --> 00:17:35.460
And it's not something that we've necessarily talked about in like nutrition counseling, but I do see clients where they've overridden hunger, they've overridden exhaustion, they've overridden stress, not necessarily consciously or even knowing that they've done it, but they keep pushing through.
00:17:36.099 --> 00:17:39.940
And this is a concept of borrowing energy from tomorrow.
00:17:40.339 --> 00:17:47.620
And then you get to midlife, and your body basically is like, no, actually, no, I'm tired, I'm done.
00:17:47.779 --> 00:18:02.660
And we really start to see some of these consequences of carrying this extra load, overfunctioning, the cost that it's costing us, you know, when we're reaching midlife and our bodies are not as we don't have as much energy or even as much patience.
00:18:02.819 --> 00:18:11.220
Um, so I know you work with a lot of female leaders, and I guess as you know, what do you see happening at midlife?
00:18:11.299 --> 00:18:18.259
Um, what's happening at this stage of life when it comes to overfunctioning, and how do you see it in your in your clients, in your life, even?
00:18:18.579 --> 00:18:19.220
Yeah.
00:18:19.539 --> 00:18:20.180
Yeah.
00:18:20.500 --> 00:18:21.700
Well, so it's interesting.
00:18:21.779 --> 00:18:36.019
I'm so glad that you are talking about this topic on your podcast because, you know, like I was saying earlier, you can't really divorce the personal from the professional because you're a human and they're intricately linked in that way.
00:18:36.259 --> 00:18:42.980
And so when demands on one side get too great, they naturally impact the other, right?
00:18:43.059 --> 00:18:46.980
Whether it's to professional to personal or vice versa.
00:18:47.220 --> 00:18:48.900
So I'll give you an example, actually.
00:18:48.980 --> 00:18:54.579
I've got two clients in particular, one that is a vivid, uh, a fairly recent example, actually.
00:18:54.740 --> 00:18:59.779
So she was um a high-level executive, uh let's see, probably Fortune 250.
00:18:59.860 --> 00:19:01.220
So big company.
00:19:01.380 --> 00:19:04.980
Uh, she had a fairly small team, but had very high scope.
00:19:05.059 --> 00:19:12.819
So she had a lot of responsibility and fairly limited manpower or woman power in this case to get the job done, right?
00:19:12.980 --> 00:19:16.019
So um a lot of pressure to deliver.
00:19:16.900 --> 00:19:22.900
And part of the problem, and what she came to me with was that feeling of kind of overwhelm.
00:19:23.140 --> 00:19:28.420
And not surprisingly, I know you wouldn't be shocked by this, Rima, but she had all kinds of health issues.
00:19:28.740 --> 00:19:39.700
She had um, she started to gain weight, she couldn't lose weight, she was eating unhealthy, she felt terrible, she wasn't sleeping well, she even had like an autoimmune issue that she was struggling with.
00:19:39.779 --> 00:19:44.740
I mean, it was just like uh a whole host of physical issues.
00:19:44.980 --> 00:20:00.259
Now, that's not something I can directly help her with, but it was all kind of part of the same cycle of taking on too much, not drawing the lines, um, and really focusing on the self as opposed to the others.
00:20:00.420 --> 00:20:01.620
And so we made some progress.
00:20:01.779 --> 00:20:06.819
We made some changes to started instituting some boundaries, which, you know, is part of the issue.
00:20:07.059 --> 00:20:12.420
But one thing I know we'll get to probably in a minute is this idea of the system, right?
00:20:12.660 --> 00:20:19.860
So the problem with this is that I can I can tell clients draw boundaries left and right and they'll do it.
00:20:19.940 --> 00:20:27.940
But that only works so far because they're within a system that has been trained to support the overfunctioning of the person.
00:20:28.660 --> 00:20:42.019
So she can try and make all of the changes that she wants to make, but chances are they're gonna be only so effective as long as that system is still kind of expecting her overfunctioning.
00:20:43.299 --> 00:20:56.900
You're talking about this woman that's leading a fortune 250 company, but it's really these kind of the qualities that probably made her very successful are now probably the same qualities that are burning her out and causing these different health problems.
00:20:56.980 --> 00:21:07.299
And it's absolutely not unusual to have the cost of overfunctioning start to show up in the gut, in weight, in cortisol levels going all wonky.
00:21:07.380 --> 00:21:20.099
And yeah, I think that that is a huge piece of kind of the nutrition and health and wellness world that we haven't really been talking about is that overfunctioning and the cost of carrying everything and how it starts to show up in the body.
00:21:20.339 --> 00:21:58.579
And when we're talking about midlife, you start to layer on these decades of doing everything yourself, and then you layer in perimenopause and menopause and fluctuating hormones and crazy cortisol levels, sleep's changing, recovery takes longer, and suddenly a body that we've been ordering around for 20, 30 years starts saying, not not today, you know, I'm going to show up in the form of GI distress or the belly weight that's stubborn and you can't get rid of, and low energy levels, and then we start berating ourselves about how our body is this way, and then we feel so bad about it.
00:21:58.660 --> 00:22:05.059
So I think there's all these different layers that get added on paramenopause and menopause, but life certainly don't help.
00:22:05.299 --> 00:22:09.539
And I think a lot of times this tends to be where women get sent a different message.
00:22:09.779 --> 00:22:16.500
A lot of clients that I see, and I'm sure Sarah, you see this too, is you're thinking I need to work harder, I'm not getting enough done.
00:22:17.539 --> 00:22:22.579
My body's changing, I need to exercise more, I need to eat less, be more disciplined.
00:22:22.740 --> 00:22:26.819
And so now we are over functioning and the prescription is more overfunctioning.
00:22:27.140 --> 00:22:27.860
Functioning.
00:22:28.180 --> 00:22:36.099
And we really start to see that metabolic cost of that chronic stress showing up in the body, showing up in our nervous system.
00:22:36.259 --> 00:22:40.660
I think a lot of people might be thinking, okay, Sarah and Rima, like this sounds lovely.
00:22:40.819 --> 00:22:43.940
And maybe I fall in that overfunctioning category.
00:22:44.339 --> 00:22:47.700
But if I don't do everything, nothing will get done.
00:22:47.860 --> 00:22:49.220
So what do you say to her?
00:22:49.380 --> 00:22:56.900
Like, how do you help someone who's overfunctioning believe that things will get done if she stops managing everything?
00:22:57.220 --> 00:22:58.420
Yeah, great question.
00:22:58.660 --> 00:23:00.019
And that's a hard one, right?
00:23:00.099 --> 00:23:09.700
It's the same kind of part of it is the same kind of uh thought process you go through when you're delegating tasks at work, right?
00:23:09.860 --> 00:23:11.940
So will it get done?
00:23:12.339 --> 00:23:14.180
Yeah, it'll probably get done.
00:23:14.500 --> 00:23:16.660
Will it be done exactly the way you would do it?
00:23:17.059 --> 00:23:18.579
Yeah, almost certainly not.
00:23:18.819 --> 00:23:20.500
Will it be done well enough?
00:23:20.740 --> 00:23:21.620
Possibly.
00:23:21.940 --> 00:23:23.700
And probably, right?
00:23:24.099 --> 00:23:25.620
Will it be done as quickly?
00:23:25.860 --> 00:23:26.420
Probably not.
00:23:26.660 --> 00:23:28.579
So there's an adjustment period.
00:23:28.819 --> 00:23:31.940
It's it is a difficult thing to try and do.
00:23:32.099 --> 00:23:40.180
So you're gonna have to drop some of the balls because you simply aren't capable of doing everything all the time.
00:23:40.660 --> 00:23:45.220
Maybe you're capable of doing everything some of the time, but not all the time.
00:23:45.380 --> 00:23:47.220
And that's just the way it is.
00:23:47.539 --> 00:23:49.779
So the task is on the individual.
00:23:49.940 --> 00:23:51.860
Okay, what's the most important, right?
00:23:51.940 --> 00:23:54.019
What are my biggest rocks in my jar?
00:23:54.180 --> 00:24:10.099
The idea is that if your life is a jar and you fill it with all the things that are fun and easy and you like doing, you're gonna put all the sand in, and pretty soon you're not gonna have room for the big rocks that are really, really important, right?
00:24:10.180 --> 00:24:16.019
And the big rocks are things that are really valuable to you, like family, like your health, like um your relationships.
00:24:16.180 --> 00:24:23.700
So the idea is you put your big rocks in first, and then you start to sprinkle in the sand, and then you pour the water on top of that.
00:24:23.940 --> 00:24:30.980
Because if you fill it with all the other things, you don't have the time and the energy to dedicate to the things that are the most important to you.
00:24:31.140 --> 00:24:35.059
So when you're thinking about these processes, what is the most important to you?
00:24:35.620 --> 00:24:36.579
What is it?
00:24:36.740 --> 00:24:39.059
Is it being at your kids' soccer game?
00:24:39.380 --> 00:24:44.420
Is it, you know, visiting your mom in the home or making sure she gets to her doctor's appointments?
00:24:44.579 --> 00:24:50.740
Or is it that the spreadsheet graphics look perfect for this thing and you can't make a mistake on it?
00:24:50.900 --> 00:24:54.500
Might there be somebody else that you could invite into that task?
00:24:54.660 --> 00:24:56.420
And who would that person be?
00:24:56.819 --> 00:25:02.819
Even better, who might uh benefit from learning that process, right?
00:25:03.460 --> 00:25:08.500
And so that's that's really the nitty-gritty of it is what am I gonna let go?
00:25:08.660 --> 00:25:10.099
What is most important to me?
00:25:10.259 --> 00:25:18.099
And so just getting really super clear on what those big rocks are in your life and then living it.
00:25:18.339 --> 00:25:21.059
And that's the hard part is the making the choices.
00:25:21.299 --> 00:25:30.259
Once you're clear on what they are, the next task is to stand by it and say no, or to hold that boundary.
00:25:30.500 --> 00:25:34.900
And that's the hard part because boundaries exist for a reason.
00:25:35.220 --> 00:25:39.460
Boundaries, your boundaries are there for you, right, to protect you.
00:25:39.539 --> 00:25:40.740
They're not to protect other people.
00:25:40.819 --> 00:25:42.259
So other people aren't gonna like it.
00:25:42.420 --> 00:25:46.660
And the system and the other people are gonna push because that's what they do.
00:25:47.059 --> 00:25:54.420
So you draw a boundary and you get the push and it's uncomfortable, but really that's a sign that it's working.
00:25:54.660 --> 00:25:58.819
And so then the next test is you know, how am I gonna uphold this?
00:25:58.980 --> 00:26:01.620
You gotta kind of stand your ground, and that's that's hard.
00:26:01.700 --> 00:26:06.980
You have to live in the discomfort for a moment while the system kind of readjusts around you.
00:26:07.299 --> 00:26:07.779
That's great.
00:26:08.019 --> 00:26:13.539
So this so the overfunctioning, I mean, Nestle, we we can't keep going at that pace.
00:26:13.700 --> 00:26:17.539
Something, something has to give at some point if you are feeling that cost.
00:26:17.860 --> 00:26:22.099
Your body is telling you, your nervous system is telling you, I can't hold all of this.
00:26:22.339 --> 00:26:31.700
So it's really figuring out what are your priorities, what are the things that are really important to you, and what are the things that you can let go of.
00:26:31.860 --> 00:26:36.900
Maybe it's letting go of some of those other things that aren't those priorities that aren't those big rocks, like you mentioned.
00:26:37.380 --> 00:26:40.420
So letting them go, putting up your boundaries.
00:26:40.579 --> 00:26:44.819
You know, some of those emotions that come up are like you mentioned, it doesn't feel good, right?
00:26:44.980 --> 00:26:47.860
And people are going to push against that boundary.
00:26:48.099 --> 00:26:51.140
If they weren't gonna push against it, we probably wouldn't need a boundary there in the first place.
00:26:51.380 --> 00:26:51.779
Exactly.
00:26:52.099 --> 00:26:57.700
So yeah, putting up that boundary and knowing that it is going to feel uncomfortable.
00:26:57.860 --> 00:27:01.779
And I think that that's really hard to do as well.
00:27:02.339 --> 00:27:11.059
And I think it's really important from that nervous system perspective, just knowing that feeling uncomfortable doesn't mean you're doing something wrong.
00:27:12.660 --> 00:27:24.819
Pushing against that boundary does not mean you are doing something wrong, and just really starting to protect ourselves, giving our nervous systems that um permission to say it's okay to feel uncomfortable in this moment.
00:27:25.299 --> 00:27:35.059
Because I think when we're accustomed to saying yes, saying no really starts to initiate that activation, like it it really kind of activates the a lot of us.
00:27:35.140 --> 00:27:37.059
Like it it hurts, it's uncomfortable.
00:27:37.380 --> 00:27:54.019
And I think when we're used to fixing other people's problems, coming in to save the day, do things the way that we want them to, so we know that the people we love and care for are taken care of, it can also be really painful to sometimes watch other people struggle when we put those boundaries up and we say no.
00:27:54.420 --> 00:27:58.180
Affect it and maybe have strategies to anticipate it.
00:27:58.339 --> 00:27:59.860
So, how are you gonna handle this?
00:28:00.019 --> 00:28:03.380
How are you gonna help yourself kind of manage that stress?
00:28:04.099 --> 00:28:19.220
I mean, you know, the other part of the systematic response to if we have a minute, is to I think not only is it incumbent on the person to set and hold the boundaries, holding is the hard part, but it's also incumbent on the system, right?
00:28:19.299 --> 00:28:22.740
So the people around her are allowing it to happen.
00:28:22.980 --> 00:28:27.220
So for instance, as uh a leader, I need to look at my team.
00:28:27.380 --> 00:28:30.579
Who around me is probably overfunctioning right now?
00:28:30.740 --> 00:28:33.539
You can probably see it if you pay attention, right?
00:28:33.779 --> 00:28:38.900
So who's doing a pretty extraordinary amount of this invisible labor?
00:28:38.980 --> 00:28:42.180
Or maybe it's not even so invisible, maybe it's pretty visible.
00:28:42.339 --> 00:28:43.140
Who's doing it?
00:28:43.299 --> 00:28:44.900
How can I support this person?
00:28:45.059 --> 00:28:46.579
Especially if you know them personally.
00:28:46.660 --> 00:28:48.259
Like what's going on in their personal lives?
00:28:48.500 --> 00:28:50.900
You know, are they taking care of a pay of a parent?
00:28:51.059 --> 00:28:54.019
Do they have a high needs kid or do they have multiple kids?
00:28:54.099 --> 00:28:58.259
Like what kind of season of life are they in and how can I help support them?
00:28:58.420 --> 00:28:59.940
So there's that part.
00:29:00.259 --> 00:29:07.140
And then the other part too is even kind of broader because part of the problem, you know, I was actually just reviewing this not too long ago, is a study.
00:29:07.220 --> 00:29:09.380
It was kind of old, it's like 2005.
00:29:09.700 --> 00:29:18.660
And women, not only do they volunteer for more at work, but they also are punished at higher rates when they don't volunteer.
00:29:18.900 --> 00:29:21.700
So men and women can do the same thing.
00:29:22.019 --> 00:29:23.700
Men get extra credit for it.
00:29:23.779 --> 00:29:27.860
Like it's it's the equivalent to the man getting credit for babysitting his own kids.
00:29:28.019 --> 00:29:32.259
And when they don't do it, when the man and the woman both say, Yeah, no, I can't do this.
00:29:32.420 --> 00:29:37.860
Sorry, the woman is the one who's punished for not being the good citizen, not the man.
00:29:38.180 --> 00:29:44.500
So there is an actual cost sometimes to saying no, which is part of that kind of calculus.
00:29:44.660 --> 00:29:46.099
What am I willing to let go of?
00:29:46.259 --> 00:29:53.299
And so that system around her can help her, I think, support her in those choices and listen to what the person is saying.
00:29:53.460 --> 00:29:58.500
So that's not just on her to hold the boundary because that can be really hard, like we were just saying.
00:29:59.220 --> 00:30:03.460
Oh so much in there, Sarah, that you just talked about.
00:30:03.700 --> 00:30:15.860
Yeah, I love that you brought that up from a leadership perspective because there are a lot of listeners who do manage other people are in leadership positions, and they are overfunctioning maybe at home and possibly at work.
00:30:16.099 --> 00:30:25.299
There's this nuance you can work on your own overfunctioning, but also at the same time be supporting other women who are overfunctioning as well.
00:30:25.460 --> 00:30:29.700
And and that supporting doesn't mean you are taking on their work.
00:30:29.860 --> 00:30:38.099
That's you know, learning how to put up those boundaries for yourself, but still you can be supporting other women and helping them not overfunction.
00:30:38.180 --> 00:30:40.099
And I think sometimes that's probably easier, right?
00:30:40.180 --> 00:30:43.140
It's easier to look at someone else and say, You're doing too much.
00:30:43.460 --> 00:30:58.900
Let's look at how to take some of this off of your plate, but knowing it doesn't have to come onto our plate, we don't have to take that in, internalize it, and carry that for them, but we can help them really see like how to take some of it off of their plates as well.
00:30:59.140 --> 00:31:01.779
And so I love that piece.
00:31:01.940 --> 00:31:03.380
Um thank you for sharing that.
00:31:03.460 --> 00:31:13.380
And I don't want as someone to finish this episode and think, okay, I need to quit my job, abandon my family, move, I don't know, somewhere on the coast of Scotland, Ireland, Europe somewhere.
00:31:13.539 --> 00:31:15.700
Um, although that sounds greed sometimes.
00:31:16.019 --> 00:31:17.620
It does sound lovely, actually.
00:31:18.420 --> 00:31:23.220
So maybe we need to all go there together and talk and work on overfunctioning.
00:31:23.299 --> 00:31:30.339
But I think it's really kind of starting to talk about those small places where we can begin to interrupt that pattern, where we can start to put up those boundaries.
00:31:30.500 --> 00:31:35.299
I think some of the things that come to my mind are things like pausing before automatically saying yes.
00:31:35.620 --> 00:31:40.180
I think it's very easy as moms, as employees, as bosses, say yes.
00:31:40.339 --> 00:31:51.539
So just starting to kind of pause, letting another adult, whether that's a partner, another family member, or an employee, remember something on their own and let them solve their own problems.
00:31:51.700 --> 00:31:54.180
So we're not only remember it, but let them solve their own problem.
00:31:54.339 --> 00:32:07.299
You know, even from like a nutrition standpoint, dietitian hat on, like eating lunch before finishing the work, or even changing your workout because you slept four hours and your energy is not as high.
00:32:07.460 --> 00:32:15.220
So, you know, really just asking whose responsibility is this to actually do I have to take this on, and letting someone be mildly disappointed.
00:32:15.380 --> 00:32:22.099
And sometimes it's choosing good enough for something that it really does not need or expect or expertise on.
00:32:22.420 --> 00:32:22.819
Yeah.
00:32:23.220 --> 00:32:28.900
Every time you hear yourself think it's easier if I just do it, just kind of noticing that.
00:32:29.299 --> 00:32:32.980
Um and sometimes it's not even making yourself change it yet.
00:32:33.140 --> 00:32:36.339
I think it's just kind of noticing what am I taking over?
00:32:36.500 --> 00:32:39.460
What am I taking responsibility for that I don't necessarily need to?
00:32:39.779 --> 00:32:43.140
What do I think would happen if I didn't do this?
00:32:43.299 --> 00:32:45.299
And then what yeah, what is this costing me?
00:32:45.460 --> 00:32:47.380
And sometimes what is it costing the other person?
00:32:47.620 --> 00:32:59.940
Any other tips on how we can stop making over functioning that unofficial job requirement that competent women tend to take on or think that they need to do.
00:33:01.380 --> 00:33:02.740
So, yeah, I agree.
00:33:02.900 --> 00:33:04.180
I mean, there's definitely hope.
00:33:04.339 --> 00:33:06.019
There's definitely changes that you can make.
00:33:06.099 --> 00:33:22.259
And I think that the more we start with your piece of advice to notice, because that awareness is the first step, I think, because once you notice and you can attend to it, then you can be intentional about how you want to respond to it.
00:33:22.500 --> 00:33:27.140
So noticing it first, and then practicing a pause.
00:33:27.620 --> 00:33:30.660
Uh, you know, practicing the pause, it can be uncomfortable.
00:33:30.900 --> 00:33:38.420
Chances are the pause doesn't feel as long to others as it might to you when you're being asked for something.
00:33:38.579 --> 00:33:40.500
Um, but yeah, practice a pause.
00:33:40.579 --> 00:33:45.860
Okay, is this something that I, you know, is this my fire that I need to put out?
00:33:46.180 --> 00:33:49.779
Um, can I bring somebody else in to help me put out the fire?
00:33:49.940 --> 00:33:51.460
Or is this somebody else's fire?
00:33:51.620 --> 00:33:53.299
Maybe it's not a fire at all.
00:33:53.620 --> 00:33:53.940
Right?
00:33:54.019 --> 00:33:56.900
So just taking a second to kind of think about that.
00:33:57.140 --> 00:34:03.140
And then also, you know, from a systems perspective, who else around you is probably experiencing this as well?
00:34:03.299 --> 00:34:06.019
And how can we look out, I think, for each other?
00:34:06.180 --> 00:34:07.940
We can definitely make headway.
00:34:08.099 --> 00:34:13.460
But I think at the heart of all of this that we're talking about is this idea of intentionality.
00:34:13.699 --> 00:34:22.339
So being super clear on what is really important to me and how can I be intentional about following through on that.
00:34:22.500 --> 00:34:31.139
And sometimes it's a matter of small tweaks, and you know, you don't necessarily need to quit your job and move to Tahiti, but um chances are small too.
00:34:31.299 --> 00:34:33.539
Yeah, it sounds delightful actually.
00:34:33.699 --> 00:34:39.059
Um, but yeah, sometimes just small tweaks can really help and make a difference.
00:34:40.019 --> 00:34:41.380
Yeah, that's great.
00:34:41.860 --> 00:34:42.179
Okay.
00:34:42.340 --> 00:34:44.740
So just being more intentional, really pausing.
00:34:44.820 --> 00:34:48.340
Is this my you know, get an accountability partner, you know?
00:34:48.579 --> 00:34:53.219
So, you know, if Raymond's, if you're my accountability partner, you know, we're gonna check in with each other.
00:34:53.380 --> 00:34:57.539
Okay, I know that you said you weren't gonna volunteer for such and such, or that you're gonna get this off your plate.
00:34:57.619 --> 00:34:58.900
Did how did that go?
00:34:59.539 --> 00:34:59.860
Right?
00:35:00.099 --> 00:35:03.139
I mean, sometimes it can be helpful to have an accountability partner.
00:35:03.619 --> 00:35:04.659
We have workout buddies.
00:35:04.820 --> 00:35:05.699
I think that that's great.
00:35:05.860 --> 00:35:14.420
It is full body wellness, you know, like uh helping to keep ourselves safe and functioning well and just healthy overall.
00:35:14.900 --> 00:35:18.900
Okay, so I want to end with the same question for both of us.
00:35:19.219 --> 00:35:24.659
What is one thing you wish every exhausted midlife woman would put down this week?
00:35:26.340 --> 00:35:27.539
That's a good one.
00:35:33.059 --> 00:35:37.219
I would say I I have a lot of clients who do this.
00:35:37.380 --> 00:35:39.380
They show up and they say should.
00:35:39.940 --> 00:35:42.500
I should, she should, we should.
00:35:42.820 --> 00:35:46.420
I would say just stop stop shooting.
00:35:47.219 --> 00:35:48.659
Stop shooting all over yourself.
00:35:48.820 --> 00:35:51.860
Like just stop just stop shooting, just stop it.
00:35:52.019 --> 00:35:53.940
Um, just just put that down.
00:35:54.019 --> 00:36:02.659
Because that right there, I think, is at the heart of a lot of judgment and blame and it leads to the self-criticism and criticism of others.
00:36:02.740 --> 00:36:03.780
So I would say that.
00:36:04.019 --> 00:36:07.380
And you're not alone, of course, to everybody at our age, Tessa.
00:36:07.619 --> 00:36:09.300
That's why we're talking about it on a podcast.
00:36:09.539 --> 00:36:10.659
That's right, that's right.
00:36:11.300 --> 00:36:11.699
That's great.
00:36:11.780 --> 00:36:13.059
Stop shitting on yourself.
00:36:13.300 --> 00:36:25.539
I think my one thing I'd want exhausted midlife women to put down this week is feeling guilty about their bodies, not looking or being exactly how we think they should or wish that they were.
00:36:25.860 --> 00:36:28.340
Bodies work really hard for us every day.
00:36:28.500 --> 00:36:32.579
And I think that we, or at least I, you know, forget that.
00:36:32.740 --> 00:36:37.860
And so it's so easy to beat ourselves up, judge and criticize ourselves, like you just said with the shitting.
00:36:38.099 --> 00:36:42.420
Let's stop arrating our bodies and just take a moment to appreciate all the ways that they carry us.
00:36:42.659 --> 00:36:50.099
Okay, so we're not giving you our listeners, we're not giving you a giant list of things you're supposed to do to become healthier, calmer, a better version of yourself.
00:36:50.260 --> 00:36:53.860
It's really just kind of noticing what am I automatically carrying?
00:36:54.099 --> 00:36:59.139
Like Sarah said, where the fires, maybe it's not even a fire, maybe we need support if it is a fire.
00:36:59.219 --> 00:37:03.619
Um permission, giving yourself permission to let other people be disappointed.
00:37:04.099 --> 00:37:07.619
Putting up those boundaries and learning to be disappointed.
00:37:07.940 --> 00:37:21.860
And just that next step, putting that one thing down before adding another task, professional wellness, family task, personal, whatever it is, um, putting one thing down before sometimes picking something else up and really focusing on those priorities.
00:37:22.340 --> 00:37:26.980
And yeah, thank you so much for this conversation, Sarah.
00:37:27.300 --> 00:37:32.099
Please tell everyone listening today how they can find out more about you and how to work with you.
00:37:32.420 --> 00:37:32.980
Sure, yeah.
00:37:33.059 --> 00:37:34.179
Thank you for mentioning that.
00:37:34.420 --> 00:37:35.619
So I'm on LinkedIn.
00:37:35.780 --> 00:37:39.699
You'll find me at you know, Sarah Nielsen, it's N-I-E-L-S-E-N.
00:37:39.940 --> 00:37:41.380
My business is emotive coaching.
00:37:41.460 --> 00:37:44.659
My website is emotivepc.com.
00:37:45.300 --> 00:37:48.019
And I'm sure you'll have my email or my LinkedIn.
00:37:48.179 --> 00:37:49.300
So just reach out to me there.
00:37:49.380 --> 00:37:50.500
I'd love to talk to you.
00:37:50.900 --> 00:37:52.019
Great, thank you, Sarah.
00:37:52.099 --> 00:37:56.260
And I'll include all of those in the show notes for listeners who are interested in learning more about Sarah.
00:37:56.340 --> 00:38:00.500
She is great at what she does and so happy to have you on the podcast.
00:38:01.219 --> 00:38:01.539
Thank you.
00:38:01.940 --> 00:38:02.980
Likewise.
00:38:03.699 --> 00:38:06.420
So thank you for listening to Elegantly Unhinged.
00:38:06.500 --> 00:38:17.539
If this episode made you think of another woman who's holding up approximately 17 people's lives with one hand while answering emails with the other or trying to cook dinner, send this to her.
00:38:17.619 --> 00:38:23.699
And if this topic resonated with you, stay tuned for a challenge I'm posting in November called Regulate Before You Celebrate.
00:38:23.780 --> 00:38:33.619
It will be 10 days of tips and tricks to get you back in the driver's seat of your own body and health, and maybe some of those boundaries we talked about today before the chaos of the holidays begins.
00:38:33.780 --> 00:38:36.179
So I'll be sharing more about that challenge soon.
00:38:36.579 --> 00:38:36.900
All right.
00:38:37.059 --> 00:38:43.139
Until next time, friends, regulate, nourish yourself well, and sometimes put something the fuck down.
00:38:43.300 --> 00:38:45.219
So I will see you in two weeks.
00:38:45.380 --> 00:38:46.500
Thanks, Sarah.
00:38:46.900 --> 00:38:47.219
Bye.
00:38:47.380 --> 00:38:48.099
It's just so fun.
00:38:48.260 --> 00:38:48.579
Bye.
00:38:48.740 --> 00:38:48.980
Thank you.
