Data Centers, Local Resources, and Government Failure

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Welcome to the Master of the NEEC podcast, the ultimate
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destination for anyone passionate about the electrical trade. Whether you're
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a season electrician, an eager apprentice, or just someone who
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wants to dive deep into the world of electrical work,
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you've come to the right place. Join your host, Paul Abernavi,
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a true authority in the industry with over thirty eight
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years of trade experience, as he electrifies your mind within
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depth discussions, expertips, and valuable insights that will keep you
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ahead of the curve. Each episode, Paul will illuminate the
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complexities of the trade, decode the national electrical code, and
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share the latest industry trends, all while empowering you to
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take your electrical career to the next level. So gear up,
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plug in, and get ready to supercharge your knowledge because
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with the Master of the NEEC podcast, the power is
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in your hands. Now get ready. Here is your host,
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Paul Abernavis.
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Whatever, everybody, Welcome to another episode of Master the NEC,
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the podcast where we talk about all things electrical, electrical contracting,
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things about the electrical industry, and just plainly answer questions
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you have about anything to do with being an electrician
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and things like that, hiring, firing, marketing, national electrical code,
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all those type of things. Now today's episode is a
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little different because it kind of touches me a little
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bit in order to give an opinion on something that
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seems to be really going all over the country. And
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it's amazing since twenty twenty two, the rapid growth of
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the data center topic has really grown. And it kind
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of started about twenty twenty two when we all of
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a sudden had the explosive expansion of AI and everybody
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wants AI, everybody. And we'll talk about a little bit
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today about how it touches you. But you may think
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it doesn't. And so you know, there's a lot of
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protesting about it, a lot of people blaming the data centers,
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saying they're not good stewards of the environment, they don't
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do this, they're being plopped down in neighborhoods. This is
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probably all true to that part, But the reality is
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you really can't blame the data centers. But I'm going
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to kind of do it and explain some things to
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you for those that are interested, those that are not
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piss off, you can move on by if you like.
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You don't have to listen, but I'm going to kind.
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Of explain to you where we're at and why things
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rapidly changed in twenty twenty two so differently, and how
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you know, how data today is much different than it
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was even again just in twenty twenty two and earlier.
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So let's kind of start this thing with the problem.
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So I live in Louisa County, Virginia, and we are
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very close to what they can see or the data
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Center Alley, which is Alloudin County, Northern Virginia rapidly becoming
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areas around Fredericksburg, Virginia, and all that Northern Virginia stuff
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at Corridor is becoming, you know, per capita, it's the
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largest group of data centers. And you can say in
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the world, be honest with you, because the vast majority
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of data centers in the world or right here in
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the United States well over three thousand plus compared to
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other countries. I mean, so it's not an argument. Really,
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are we trying to beat China, for example, to the
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AI race.
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No, we're strongly ahead of that.
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That is not the case because again, you can be technology,
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but if you don't have the capacity to to scale it,
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then it just doesn't do anything for you. And I'll
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explain all that in a hopefully in an elementary way,
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not because I'm talking down, but because it just gets
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so confusing for people. I go on social media and
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I see next door here in the Louisa County area,
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we see.
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TikTok.
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Social media is everywhere, and everybody's bashing these data centers.
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They're protesting, and again they they deserve some of the blame,
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but no more of a blame than we the consumer.
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So let's kind of take it back a little bit.
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So the normal reason that we scale up so quickly
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is because originally, when it comes to data, it was
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warehoused and servers all around the country, and it was
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kind of dumb. Data means that when we would type
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something into Google or any of the search engines, it
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would go up into the cloud. So it leaves you,
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goes through your fiber, goes to your switching gateway, then
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it goes out to wherever it goes. It gets broken
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into tokens. Those tokens are numbers. Those numbers is what
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they pay for. Kind of think that as widgets, it
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goes out and then it goes through the data center
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and it just spits you back information that was already
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out there. So when it comes to the old days
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when we're just searching for something in Google or being
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or anything, we're really we were pulling information that already exists,
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whether it's in somebody's book, whether it's articles I've written,
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or whether or not it's articles.
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Other people have written.
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That's pretty easy because that's just pulling stored data from
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a collection of intertwined servers. That's not really power intensive
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to do that. It's just really a regurgitation of information.
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That's already out there.
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So when people say what has changed in order for
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us to have this massive growth in data centers, what's
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changed is how we want the information. So if you
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were just simply typing in something and you're trying to
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pull back something on a topic without it being original,
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it's basically just pulling it from published data that gets
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uploaded into this net network of interactive servers that is
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your network, that is your cloud, but it is based
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on physical information that somebody has created. That's easy, and
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we've been doing that for nearly twenty thirty years since
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the Internet's been around. Okay, so really what's happened is
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the technology of the chips. Ok And what we're asking
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now servers to do is create very complex calculations, be
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very freethinking in how they develop stuff in order to.
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Help us in our daily tasks.
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You know, today you cannot go and get any app
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that's online, whether it's your banking app, whether it's whatever.
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They all have an AI tool, they all have an
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AI model. Okay, there's a bot involved. Now, this is
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a freethinking opponent and it has to think about it
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and give you a response very quickly. That is far
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different than simply regurgitating information that's floating in the Internet. Now,
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the growth of the data centers clearly started in Really
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the growth started in twenty twenty two when the AI
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started ramping up, and then again the chips became much
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more powerful and the things that it could do. Now,
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I'm not gonna lie I in full transparency. Most people
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know that I own trade Hog. Trade Hog is an
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AI tool that's designed to help electricians in the field,
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but also plumbers mechanical, it doesn't matter. It's designed to
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pull up relevant codes, so it looks for data, but
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how it compiles it is very intelligent, and we're constantly
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feeding that data so it's not just a copy and paste.
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It's the way it presents it is very intelligent. Now
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we're connect did to and this is no secret. Most
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people know that there's the data centers that create the
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AI interaction like open AI, things like at X and
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XAI and all this kind of stuff Microsoft and Meta
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and so these data centers will think about what the
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response is intelligently and it will create it. Now, I've
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used AI to create letters, to proof things, to write articles,
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and then I go through them to make sure it's accurate.
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Because I don't trust it. I have to go through it.
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I can't help it. I've used it to do certain
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tasks for me, create software, create websites, web web pages.
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I've asked it to do a lot of things. So
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organically it creates these things and it has to be
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an intelligent component. So there's the chips started integrating this
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AI capability. And again we can grow, moaning, grown about it,
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but you're not giving it up. You can say you
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don't want a data center in your backyard, you can
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say that I don't want to see it, but you
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still are using the technology. If you're listening to this,
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this podcast was uploaded in a data center somewhere and
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you're requesting it from that data center to listen to it.
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It's you're contributing to the problem. If it's a problem,
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you're helping create it. So you can't really you can
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whine about it, you can moan about it. I don't
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like it. I wouldn't like one right across from my house.
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But the reality is we've created this beast, and we
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created it because we want things quicker, faster, more intelligent,
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more accurate. We wanted all these things, and so we
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want that our banking online is quicker, more accurate. We
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want all of our search results to come back more
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quicker and accurate and more detailed. And we don't just
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pull up documents anymore that are just pre done or
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pre loaded. There's an intelligence behind these documents. There's an
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intelligence behind these responses, and that takes computing power. So
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the first thing we'll kind of talk about is the electricity,
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the grid, the power. So currently the power grids cannot
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handle the rapid growth that it's expected of these data centers. Okay,
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the megawatts and the gigawatts of power these things are
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consuming has to come from somewhere, and a lot of
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times they bid for this power, which ultimately means that
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in your jurisdiction, your power costs. It might be twenty
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cent per certain number of kiloot hours, but it's going
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to go up because it's a bidding process.
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And they have to allocate this power.
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But the trade off is that you're getting all of
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the benefits of the AI. You're getting it whether you
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like it or not. Now you might say to yourself,
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don't have that, I don't want it.
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Well, then you're gonna have to go back to the
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stone ages.
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Because the phone that you're using connects to data centers
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and has an AI component. Nearly half the things in
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my house is connected to the Internet and has a
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smart feature on it that's understanding, that's always learning. So,
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whether you like it or not, this is where we're going. Okay,
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So the electricity is the first component. And so in
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our area, for example, we have the nuclear power plant. Well,
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the nuclear power plant is only able to put out
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a certain amount of power and you can't just definitely
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add additionals to it. It's not like the plant is growing. Okay,
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So the Lake Anna nuclear power plant has a certain
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amount of capacity. There's other power plants, they have certain
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levels of capacity. So this is why all of the
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data centers have these massive generators for that time when
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the grid can't handle it. Maybe they're waiting for that
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one day that the grid goes messy. They can still
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power it and preserve the information and keep the Internet flowing,
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keep the AI flowing. Okay, and in many of them
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will actually run these generators, and this is why you
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hear them because the grid in that area cannot handle
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their capacity and so they have to supplement it with
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these generators, and that is very costly for them. But
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it generators do generate noise. It is what it is.
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But we as consumers have helped create that. Now you
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might be saying some people will say, well, that's fine,
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as long as they build somewhere else. Well, this is
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where the problem begins. And it's even before we have
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to worry about water consumption and taking natural resources and
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all those type of things.
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Before that, it has.
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To do with the luring of these data centers to
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certain areas geographically that are close proximity to readily available
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power and resources that end up being wooed there by
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your local government. Now, it doesn't hurt that a governor,
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a governor of a state, may or may not make
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it more advantageous for a data center project to come
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to your area. I mean, data centers are in business
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to make money. They're not lying to anybody, they're not
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telling anybody. They're just here to be good stewards of
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the community.
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Dude.
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They're a business no different than John's mom and pop
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down the street, or you know, Susie's clothing store. They're
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no different. You may not like them, but they're no different.
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And yes, they do create a massive opportunity for employee
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growth hiring jobs, whether they're aminable or not, or just
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because of the buildout or whatnot, but they do create
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this in the community.
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You know.
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Obviously, some of that wanes as it's complete and it
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becomes online and they get normal number of people that
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they need per CPU, and that's a whole factor they do.
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But there's a there's a real reason why data centers
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are expanding so rapidly, and the real reason for that
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is the numbers. It's basically scale scalable law means that
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if one facility has to run it mass capacity, then
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it's inefficient to run. If you branch it out and
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spread it across a network, then the cost of operation
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come down. So the reason they're opening up so many
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is because the demand is so high that the scalable
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law means that they spread it out amongst other data
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centers so that it's it's manageable. Whereas you can't simply
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do this, the capacity would not work with one facility. Now,
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some people say, well, why don't they build them out
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in Arizona. Well, they're building them in Arizona out and
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the deserts and stuff. But again they need resources as well.
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And I know that might sound good for you because
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you don't want it in your backyard, but you still
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grab that phone. You still want the technology, you still
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want the AI. You want it, you know you want it.
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You just don't want the repercussions from it. And I
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get it. So this takes me back to where we
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were talking about the government local. So the problem with
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it is that a lot of times, and again by
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no means of I an expert on data centers. Let
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me make that up front. You know I'll get my
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hate mail. I always do. This is my podcast. I'm talking.
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You choose to listen. If you don't, you can move on.
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But The biggest issue locally is the incentives that are
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given to the data centers. Now, granted, they will pay
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large amounts of money for the area to be able
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to build these So if your local government or your
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state is giving such tax break, that and in many
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cases they're saying, look, you don't know any property tax
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for five years just to come to our locality. Well,
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that's the problem we have locally with Louisa Fredericksburg area
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or whatnot, is that the council members and everybody that's
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voting is being lured by the prospect of money, teacher
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raises and other things that they don't see the other issues,
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and that is not holding the data centers accountable. In
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other words, you know, first of all, I'd never run
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for office. I hate politics. I hate politicians in general.
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It doesn't matter whether you're a Republican or a Democrat.
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I think they're all crooks. I trust some more than others.
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But at the end of the day, anybody that gets
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in and runs more than one term or two terms
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or not in it to help the community. They're in
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it for a career and I'm just against that. But
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you know, people that sit in the these offices for
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thirty years, forty years. I think that's you know, that's
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just I don't agree with it. But anyway, that's neither
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here nor there. I'm not gonna We're not creating a
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situation where it's one party versus another.
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That's not what this podcast today is about.
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We're talking about the fact that you can even listen
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to them. Let's say the city of Fredericksburg, talk about
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why they do it. If they don't do it, somebody
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else will. We want to bring that into the area
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because it brings in the revenue, that's great, But if
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the revenue is not structured properly, then everybody loses and
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the resources suffer. So luring them to your area by
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giving them so many tax breaks and so many incentives
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without holding.
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Them accountable is the problem. Now, you and I.
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Both pay property tax. Remembering in Virginia here, property tax
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is difference in real estate tax, right property tax. So
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some counties give your break on property tax, not real
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estate tax. They don't understand that, but they give you
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on a property tax. Okay, Well, and the reality is
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when you give a company that is literally you know,
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when you buy a computer for a business, you have
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to pay property tax on it. You buy equipment for
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your business, you pay property taxes on it. You have
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to pay these things as a business, Okay, annually. If
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you take something that is essentially a massive building with
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nothing but equipment in it, like computers and servers and whatnot,
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that should generate a massive amount of annual property tax,
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massive just in that alone.
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They don't want to pay that.
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The data centers don't want to pay that, so they
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construct it in some other way to say they're giving
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incentives to the community. But they say this cleverly, and
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I'm not saying they're openly being dishonest.
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I'm just saying there's a clever way they do it.
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They have great lawyers. I'm sure.
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The problem is the council members fall for the easy money.
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In my they fall for They make decisions based on
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whether it's going to look good for their constituents by saying, oh, look,
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we're gonna pay.
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More teachers' wages.
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But paying more teachers' wages doesn't offset the cost of
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the people that aren't teachers. Yet everybody else has to
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understand that there's going to be burdens involved in that.
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So if you give somebody a tax incentive to come
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to your area because you want to lure them here,
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and you read district land, you change land use around
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so that they can be there, especially if they're near
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a residential community. You're doing it for one reason. You're
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doing it because of the revenue, because there is no
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other reason you do it, especially as a locality, there
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is zero reason you would do it, So you do it.
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But then you give them tax breaks and incentives that
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encourage them to pick your community over somewhere else. So
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I think the problem is like when I tell people
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in business, you can work for yourself, but if your
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expenses outweigh your income, then you're not going to be
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in business a loan. So when a community offers so
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much incentive to bring something here that their consumption, their
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use is so much greater than what benefit they bring
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to the community, that's a problem, and that's going to
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continue on for twenty years or more. So I think
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that the real problem is not so much the data
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centers itself. They're a business. They're just trying to do
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a business. And I've talked before of how data centers
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can benefit the trades, and obviously they're gonna get built
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we can't stop it. You can protest all you want,
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but hold in your hand how many times a protest
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has actually caused a project to really stop and see
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where we're at.
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Okay, here in Louisa County.
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Alone, there's like three or four data centers going up
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and they get protested. Guess what, they're still getting built.
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You're not going to stop it. The only way you
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stop it is if you make it an issue with
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your local government. And even then you need to hold
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them accountable. If they vote a certain way, and they
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vote and make stupid decisions, then they need to be
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They don't. They don't get a free pass. You take
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the Charlottesville, Virginia for example. Charlottesville used to be such
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a wonderful city and then they got administrations in there
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to just tore it up and did not make good
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decisions for the community and the growth in the origination
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of Charlottesville that they've ruined it.
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And that's my opinion. You can disagree. I'm just giving
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my opinion. I understand it.
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The people that'll be disagreeing with that, that's fine. Where's
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your facts, Paul, dude, I'm giving you my opinion. If
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you don't like it move on. But the reality is
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unless you start taking back and holding your elected officials
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accountable and being vocal about that rather than protesting the
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data centers themselves, then that's going to be You know
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that that's a problem. You have to hold them accountable. Now,
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how could we hold a data center accountable? Okay, I'm
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not going to give you all the ways that I
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would do it, but I'm just going to tell you
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how I would hold a data center accountable. First of all,
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you want to come into my area. I'm not giving
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you any tax incentive. If you want to come in
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and he said, well, they'll go somewhere else. If we don't, well,
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then I'm going to weigh the tax incentive. If I
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give them a tax incentive, I'm going to make sure
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that it offsets by what they're giving me the community.
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So they should not come in here and win, because
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if I'm not getting anything for it, if I pay
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one thousand dollars for something and I'm giving you a
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thousand dollars, break and ultimately I'm not making anything but
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just putting you here.
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And you say, well, they'll.
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Bring you know, they'll bring jobs, and they'll bring visitors
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and people don't go visiting data centers, by the way, folks.
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So that's not really what's going to bring income streams
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to your community. Okay, it's not like we're going to
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have all of a sudden the restaurants are going to
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be booming. But that is not how it works. Okay,
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don't be a fool. There ain't that many people inside
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these data centers once they're up and running. Yes, during
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the construction phase, yeah, that'll bring local revenue. That'll bring
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some people things like that. But other than that, once
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it's done, that's pretty much going to scale back and
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there'll be limited jobs to the community. Limited jobs, but
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most of the you know, people understand that their people
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come from other states to do electrical work on these
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data centers.
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They make great money.
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I saw a report the other day that some make
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anywhere between thirty five hundred and forty five hundred dollars
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a week a week as an electrician.
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No wonder there.
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If they're young, travel around from data center to data center, Dude,
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you can stack some money away. Remember what I always say,
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You work your ass off in your twenties and thirties,
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and so you can reap the benefits in your fifties
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and sixties. Absolutely, Okay, So you know it's it's just
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one of those those things. If I was a damn
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young electrician again and I was doing the data center, dude,
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I'd just buy me a motor coach, put my family
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in it. Home, my wife homeschool a kid, and I
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would just live out of a travel trailer. Well, I
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would probably buy a nice one because at thirty two
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hundred dollars a week, I could afford one, and I
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would just park it somewhere at a camp, at an
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RV park or whatever, and just pay there, you know,
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stay there and tell the project and then get in
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my motor home and then go wherever the next project leads.
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I'm just saying, stack that money, That's all I'm saying.
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So anyway, different strokes for different folks. But the reality
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is you have to understand that if you're not going
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to you cannot give so many incentives to bring them
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to an area. And then if they threaten to not
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come here because the incentives aren't good enough, you have
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to be willing to walk away from the table. And
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that's the problem with our local governor government, the governor everybody,
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is that they don't want to walk away. This is
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why Northern Virginia is the data center corridor, right, It's
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they don't walk away, and they're putting them right into subdivisions,
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just blatantly doing it. And if you're not asking your
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politicians why you're allowing that, and then you say, well,
436
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I don't care where it goes, I just don't want
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it in my neighborhood, then you're part of the problem
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because you're the one using the data.
439
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You're the one that has a subscriptions.
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Dude, in my house, I've got a washing machine that's
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connected to the Internet. I have all of my TVs.
442
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Six of the TVs in his house are connected to
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the internet. My tesla is connected to the internet. My
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computers are connected to the internet. My employa monitoring systems
445
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connected to the Internet, my HVAC systems connected to the internet.
446
00:25:58.200 --> 00:26:01.720
My phones are all connected to the internet. What else,
447
00:26:02.039 --> 00:26:04.880
My Elixa devices are all connected to the internet. Everything
448
00:26:05.000 --> 00:26:09.519
is connected to the Internet. Okay, so at the end
449
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of the day, you may not have that exposure, that footprint,
450
00:26:14.319 --> 00:26:18.880
but you picking up that cell phone, you're contributing to it,
451
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whether you want to like it or not. And if
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you say to yourself, I know I want these things,
453
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I just don't want it in my neighborhood. Then you're
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a hypocrite. And it's okay, I get it. Nobody wants
455
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to stare one down. But the reality is it's ingrained
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in our life at this point. So the reason that
457
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this grew in twenty twenty two is because of AI.
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AI is connected with everything today because we as people
459
00:26:50.480 --> 00:26:54.720
want things to be quicker, easier, more efficient. My time
460
00:26:54.799 --> 00:27:01.640
is money, help me out make things easier. So that
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is what's happened, and it's not going anywhere. So I
462
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would say to those out there that want to protest
463
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data centers, if you think that that's going to change
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the data center, that's not This is not going to
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change the data center. Now, we can push for certain
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things that local government can write in to the prospect
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of an agreement with these data centers. One, they could
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demand that they use closed loop water cooling systems, they
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can demand it. They can demand that they create their
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own on site power plant. They can demand that they
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create their own water towers or own water, and that
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they do not pull from wells. They can demand a
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lot of things, and if the data centers say well,
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I can't do that. We know that you can, because
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there are data centers out there that are closed loop
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systems and things like that, and there's other technology.
477
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It's just expensive.
478
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And the reason is expensive because in these things are
479
00:28:01.519 --> 00:28:08.200
legitimately energy hogs that you have to wrangle. You have
480
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to make sure that you control them. One processor of
481
00:28:12.759 --> 00:28:17.119
these new modern data centers a server. One processor produces
482
00:28:17.160 --> 00:28:20.559
about a thousand watts of heat inside of one of
483
00:28:20.559 --> 00:28:24.759
these racks. You could have hundreds of these processors all
484
00:28:24.799 --> 00:28:28.799
putting out one thousand watts of heat from one little
485
00:28:28.920 --> 00:28:30.559
chip the size of a postcard.
486
00:28:31.519 --> 00:28:32.160
I'm not lying.
487
00:28:32.240 --> 00:28:36.039
Google it, okay, And if you do google it, you'll
488
00:28:36.039 --> 00:28:40.079
be using data centers. So think about it. So this
489
00:28:40.160 --> 00:28:43.680
heat has to go somewhere. Well, back in the day,
490
00:28:43.960 --> 00:28:47.319
it used to be that air, like a normal air
491
00:28:47.359 --> 00:28:49.759
conditioning system could remove this heat efficiently.
492
00:28:50.359 --> 00:28:51.960
It cannot do that anymore.
493
00:28:52.559 --> 00:28:56.599
These these these these racks now that are clustered, and
494
00:28:56.680 --> 00:28:59.200
the things that are size of a refrigerator with multiple
495
00:28:59.240 --> 00:29:01.319
servers in there, many of them costing more than your
496
00:29:01.319 --> 00:29:06.599
house per server, are so smart, but they run so
497
00:29:06.839 --> 00:29:09.799
hot that the air movement cannot cool them.
498
00:29:09.799 --> 00:29:10.240
Anymore.
499
00:29:11.200 --> 00:29:13.880
So they either have to be liquid cooled designed into
500
00:29:13.880 --> 00:29:19.720
the chipset or maybe back end radiator systems, but they
501
00:29:19.759 --> 00:29:21.680
have to be designed in a way to move this heat.
502
00:29:21.880 --> 00:29:24.880
And it would take tornado force winds to move that
503
00:29:24.960 --> 00:29:26.599
heat quick enough. And that's not how it's going to
504
00:29:26.599 --> 00:29:28.200
work in a data center if you've ever been in one,
505
00:29:28.240 --> 00:29:33.079
and I have. Okay, So at the end of the day,
506
00:29:33.680 --> 00:29:35.680
the only way to do it is to use liquid
507
00:29:35.720 --> 00:29:41.119
cool because liquid cooling is way more efficient efficient than air. Right,
508
00:29:41.440 --> 00:29:43.480
Why do you think your car does it a certain way?
509
00:29:43.519 --> 00:29:44.799
Why do you think vehicles?
510
00:29:44.960 --> 00:29:45.160
You know?
511
00:29:45.400 --> 00:29:48.119
It makes sense, right, And then of course you could
512
00:29:48.160 --> 00:29:51.680
submerge it into a non conductive liquid that is also expensive,
513
00:29:51.720 --> 00:29:54.400
and that is what we may be going to. But
514
00:29:54.519 --> 00:29:57.839
it's still liquid of some type, non conductive, but it's liquid.
515
00:29:58.319 --> 00:30:00.240
The point of the matter is you could ea even
516
00:30:00.240 --> 00:30:04.160
pushed for purple systems or purple water systems or recirculatory
517
00:30:04.200 --> 00:30:07.759
systems or whatever. But you have to think about these
518
00:30:07.799 --> 00:30:11.039
things in your community. So before I offer to anybody
519
00:30:11.119 --> 00:30:15.880
a tax break, as a community, what your counselmen and
520
00:30:15.960 --> 00:30:19.240
women should be doing in saying, look, I'm going to
521
00:30:19.319 --> 00:30:21.759
give you these incentives, but this is what I want
522
00:30:21.799 --> 00:30:23.559
in return. I want to know how you're going to
523
00:30:23.599 --> 00:30:26.160
manage your water. I want to know what the amount
524
00:30:26.200 --> 00:30:29.359
that you're going to take and how you're going to
525
00:30:29.400 --> 00:30:29.880
deal with it.
526
00:30:30.160 --> 00:30:32.480
And I don't care what the cost is, you're not
527
00:30:32.519 --> 00:30:33.880
going to take it from the community.
528
00:30:34.759 --> 00:30:37.559
Secondly, I want to know what incentives you're going to
529
00:30:37.640 --> 00:30:40.319
give us for giving you incentives, because I'm not giving
530
00:30:40.319 --> 00:30:43.680
you incentives for me to lose money as a community.
531
00:30:43.880 --> 00:30:50.519
We're giving us incentives, but essentially you're deferring the benefit
532
00:30:50.599 --> 00:30:53.000
that's going to come to us. What is the benefit
533
00:30:53.039 --> 00:30:56.759
to us? In my constituents, these are the conversations that
534
00:30:56.880 --> 00:31:01.720
have to be held, and these to be open conversations.
535
00:31:02.119 --> 00:31:05.119
A lot of times these councils will do these closed
536
00:31:05.119 --> 00:31:07.880
door deals or things that really, oh, they're sneaking in
537
00:31:07.920 --> 00:31:12.119
an agenda that nobody knows about, or it's the data
538
00:31:12.160 --> 00:31:15.480
center people, or everybody talks in such circular terms that
539
00:31:15.559 --> 00:31:18.799
nobody can really understand what the shit's going on, when
540
00:31:18.799 --> 00:31:21.000
it should be just a simple question to them and saying,
541
00:31:21.279 --> 00:31:24.880
so where are you using, where are you getting your cooling,
542
00:31:25.000 --> 00:31:27.839
how are you doing your cooling, what's your thoughtful power.
543
00:31:28.279 --> 00:31:29.880
Are you going to have to run generators all the
544
00:31:29.920 --> 00:31:32.200
time because you know the grid can't sustain it. Dude,
545
00:31:32.200 --> 00:31:35.119
we're ten fifteen years away from full sustainability, and that's
546
00:31:35.160 --> 00:31:37.119
even further than that because I don't think the grid
547
00:31:37.160 --> 00:31:41.160
could catch up. This is the reason that Microsoft is
548
00:31:41.319 --> 00:31:44.759
trying to or paying to start up Three Mile Island
549
00:31:44.759 --> 00:31:48.400
again for the nuclear power plant that melted down one
550
00:31:48.440 --> 00:31:52.680
of the reactors years ago, kind of sat in moth balls,
551
00:31:52.720 --> 00:31:54.839
and now they're paying a certain number of billions of
552
00:31:54.880 --> 00:31:58.119
dollars to refurbish that thing and get those reactors that
553
00:31:58.200 --> 00:31:59.759
didn't melt down back in service.
554
00:31:59.799 --> 00:32:06.359
Why Why Because they need the power. It's simple. They
555
00:32:06.400 --> 00:32:08.079
need the power to run these things.
556
00:32:09.079 --> 00:32:12.200
So we have through Louisa County, there's this prospect of
557
00:32:12.279 --> 00:32:15.000
running a new high power line in every and there's
558
00:32:15.000 --> 00:32:18.160
a lot of people against it. Well again because it's
559
00:32:18.160 --> 00:32:20.519
gonna run through people's land and nobody wants to look
560
00:32:20.519 --> 00:32:21.880
out and see these big ass tower.
561
00:32:21.920 --> 00:32:22.400
I get it.
562
00:32:23.720 --> 00:32:28.720
But the reality is without that line, you're gonna pay
563
00:32:28.759 --> 00:32:33.160
the price because you're gonna be bidding against power that's used,
564
00:32:33.200 --> 00:32:37.000
for example, from Lakena and other power plants. You're gonna
565
00:32:37.000 --> 00:32:39.039
be bidding against that, and it's gonna raise your price.
566
00:32:39.119 --> 00:32:43.839
If you allow this to come in, then it's probably
567
00:32:43.880 --> 00:32:46.640
gonna help in terms of offsetting the increase that it
568
00:32:46.640 --> 00:32:48.839
would be to you the consumer, because then they would
569
00:32:48.880 --> 00:32:52.319
be buying this high power directly from another source, and
570
00:32:52.480 --> 00:32:56.440
it actually would help your area. But we're so focused
571
00:32:56.440 --> 00:32:58.640
on what it would look like. Well, I get it, Paul.
572
00:32:58.680 --> 00:33:00.440
You don't want a tower running through your backyard.
573
00:33:01.160 --> 00:33:07.200
I wouldn't. But here's the deal. It's not going away.
574
00:33:08.039 --> 00:33:11.400
At some point a palm will get greased and something
575
00:33:11.440 --> 00:33:15.279
will happen. Because the data center growth is not going anywhere.
576
00:33:15.480 --> 00:33:18.480
It's gonna happen. You can protest it. All that energy
577
00:33:18.640 --> 00:33:22.119
is great, and I'm all about you know, protesting, you know,
578
00:33:22.200 --> 00:33:24.759
doing it peacefully, YadA YadA. I I don't have a
579
00:33:24.799 --> 00:33:26.359
problem with that. The moment it gets violent, that's I
580
00:33:26.359 --> 00:33:30.680
gotta have a problem with that. But reality is it's
581
00:33:30.720 --> 00:33:35.160
not going away. So your your biggest focus should be
582
00:33:35.880 --> 00:33:42.920
rallying around elections, are rallying around putting people in government
583
00:33:43.160 --> 00:33:45.680
that in your local And again I would focus locally.
584
00:33:45.720 --> 00:33:48.400
I think too many people focus on bigger things like
585
00:33:48.640 --> 00:33:49.799
the presidential election.
586
00:33:50.079 --> 00:33:52.440
Election elections in Congress and Senates.
587
00:33:53.000 --> 00:33:56.079
I think that one of the biggest things that people
588
00:33:57.279 --> 00:34:00.319
lose sight of is the importance of your low local
589
00:34:00.440 --> 00:34:03.519
elected officials and what their positions are, because they're the
590
00:34:03.519 --> 00:34:06.519
ones when the rubber meets the road. They're the ones
591
00:34:06.559 --> 00:34:09.719
that are making decisions for you at council meetings that
592
00:34:09.840 --> 00:34:13.840
you may or may not like. And if you're not
593
00:34:13.960 --> 00:34:17.400
informed and you're only focusing on a bigger issue like
594
00:34:17.559 --> 00:34:22.960
government wide, statewide, or even national, then you're missing and
595
00:34:23.079 --> 00:34:25.960
things are getting slidden in the back door in your
596
00:34:26.000 --> 00:34:28.679
local jurisdiction that you're going to have to be saying, well,
597
00:34:28.719 --> 00:34:31.239
how the hell did that ever happen? I blame the governor,
598
00:34:31.280 --> 00:34:34.960
I blame the president, or I blame no, you need
599
00:34:35.000 --> 00:34:38.880
to blame your local government and what they were sold
600
00:34:38.960 --> 00:34:43.320
as them thinking that it was good for the community,
601
00:34:43.760 --> 00:34:48.800
when in fact it's not good for the community. Now again,
602
00:34:48.880 --> 00:34:51.480
I have nothing wrong with data centers. People say, Paul,
603
00:34:51.480 --> 00:34:56.159
you're just so pro data center. That is not true.
604
00:34:55.719 --> 00:34:59.920
I'm pro data center because I love data. I can
605
00:35:00.039 --> 00:35:03.800
assume it. I have everything that I have is consumed
606
00:35:03.800 --> 00:35:07.840
with data, and I get it, and you might let
607
00:35:07.840 --> 00:35:09.400
me quit it to this way. I heard somebody say
608
00:35:09.440 --> 00:35:11.559
to me, says, Paul, my footprint is so little. I
609
00:35:11.559 --> 00:35:14.119
still don't think it's fair. And I'm like, if you
610
00:35:14.280 --> 00:35:17.519
throw a cigarette butt out of your window, you're littering.
611
00:35:18.519 --> 00:35:23.119
If you throw one plastic straw into the ocean, you're littering.
612
00:35:24.920 --> 00:35:29.400
Littering is littering. If you convince yourself that your impact
613
00:35:29.440 --> 00:35:32.119
is so small, then you're the same person that won't
614
00:35:32.159 --> 00:35:34.280
go out and get involved in local elections because you
615
00:35:34.320 --> 00:35:38.760
think your voice doesn't matter. That the mentality we have
616
00:35:38.840 --> 00:35:45.000
to change. So I am all for holding data centers accountable.
617
00:35:45.760 --> 00:35:48.360
We need them. They're not going anywhere. The reason they
618
00:35:48.400 --> 00:35:51.840
open so many of them is again, scalability means their
619
00:35:51.920 --> 00:35:54.800
cost to run comes down as they Expand I know
620
00:35:54.840 --> 00:35:55.760
that sounds hard to believe.
621
00:35:55.760 --> 00:35:57.519
You're thinking, well, they got a look.
622
00:35:58.000 --> 00:36:00.599
It might cost them two hundred billion dollars to build one,
623
00:36:00.599 --> 00:36:02.960
but if it makes them five hundred billion dollars in
624
00:36:03.000 --> 00:36:04.519
a year, then that's profitable.
625
00:36:06.199 --> 00:36:10.079
Okay. The more you have, the less resources.
626
00:36:10.079 --> 00:36:13.679
It is based on a single location and it's allocated
627
00:36:13.679 --> 00:36:17.400
now across the network, and that makes operating costs come down.
628
00:36:20.760 --> 00:36:23.920
And if you don't understand that scalability and a scalable law.
629
00:36:24.039 --> 00:36:27.079
I can't help you. I'm not here to educate you
630
00:36:27.159 --> 00:36:30.320
on the understanding of that type of concept.
631
00:36:31.079 --> 00:36:32.519
But it is a real deal.
632
00:36:33.239 --> 00:36:35.199
And the fact of the matter is, this is why
633
00:36:35.239 --> 00:36:37.639
they expand, This is why the US per capita has
634
00:36:37.679 --> 00:36:38.840
the most data centers.
635
00:36:38.880 --> 00:36:41.719
It's scalability putting them out there.
636
00:36:41.960 --> 00:36:45.920
Googles, Amazons, Amazon's probably the biggest one out there.
637
00:36:47.119 --> 00:36:49.840
They're everywhere. Yeah, they're under different code names.
638
00:36:49.880 --> 00:36:51.960
You have to go digging into the deep web to
639
00:36:52.039 --> 00:36:55.079
find them, or look at some of the holding companies
640
00:36:55.079 --> 00:36:57.079
and then look them up and see who's holding them
641
00:36:57.159 --> 00:36:59.280
or what LLC and then go back. Yeah, you got
642
00:36:59.320 --> 00:37:02.119
to do this little patchwork right, because they all love
643
00:37:02.159 --> 00:37:04.239
to use these code names. Tell me how you know
644
00:37:04.280 --> 00:37:06.599
how I know because I work for a large wire
645
00:37:06.599 --> 00:37:08.880
and cable manufacturer that surprised a lot of wire and
646
00:37:08.920 --> 00:37:11.679
cable to these data centers. And you can't always find
647
00:37:11.679 --> 00:37:14.920
the name of these damn things because they're under code names.
648
00:37:17.199 --> 00:37:19.360
And a lot of it has to do with proprietariness.
649
00:37:19.639 --> 00:37:22.480
One data manufacturer comes up with technology, they don't want
650
00:37:22.519 --> 00:37:24.360
to share it with somebody else, and then so they
651
00:37:24.480 --> 00:37:26.599
kind of keep it all private. I get it. The
652
00:37:26.599 --> 00:37:28.480
fact matter is I don't care about any of that.
653
00:37:29.719 --> 00:37:33.320
I really don't. What I care about is if they're
654
00:37:33.320 --> 00:37:36.920
going to come into a community, then I'm going to
655
00:37:36.960 --> 00:37:40.480
hold them accountable. I'm going to say, dude, I love
656
00:37:40.519 --> 00:37:44.559
the data, bring it. But if a locality is going
657
00:37:44.599 --> 00:37:47.079
to rezone things or allow them to be in certain
658
00:37:47.159 --> 00:37:51.880
areas and simply because of revenue, but ultimately they end
659
00:37:51.960 --> 00:37:54.639
up giving them huge tax breaks to come here in
660
00:37:54.679 --> 00:38:00.119
the first place, that's a problem because ultimately, no no
661
00:38:00.280 --> 00:38:04.039
business in a city is a business. Okay, running a
662
00:38:04.079 --> 00:38:08.320
city is a business. No business is sustainable. If your
663
00:38:08.360 --> 00:38:15.880
expenses outweigh your income, it's just not it's just gonna fail. Now,
664
00:38:16.400 --> 00:38:19.920
in the terms of a city, if you're giving such
665
00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:24.639
incentives to a data center and you're not taking care
666
00:38:24.679 --> 00:38:29.280
of your community, then that's a problem. If you have
667
00:38:29.320 --> 00:38:31.760
one county that's got three data centers, there should be
668
00:38:31.840 --> 00:38:35.480
no dama, especially as small as like Louisa. There should
669
00:38:35.480 --> 00:38:39.360
be no damn way that anybody in Louisa has to
670
00:38:39.440 --> 00:38:45.519
pay property tax, real estate tax. Should I would venture
671
00:38:45.559 --> 00:38:49.679
to say they shouldn't have to pay sales tax. But
672
00:38:49.960 --> 00:38:52.599
the end of the day is you make the data
673
00:38:52.639 --> 00:38:56.599
center pay it. Well, that's not fair, sure it is.
674
00:38:57.599 --> 00:39:01.519
If you're using our resources, you've been given incentives to
675
00:39:01.559 --> 00:39:04.800
come here, then I want something back. What's the point
676
00:39:04.840 --> 00:39:08.119
of giving so much incentives and tax breaks that you
677
00:39:08.199 --> 00:39:10.840
don't make anything from it for your constituents, your people
678
00:39:10.880 --> 00:39:13.320
in your community who are not benefiting from it, Well,
679
00:39:13.360 --> 00:39:16.840
they bring jobs, No, they don't, not that many. In fact,
680
00:39:16.880 --> 00:39:19.119
a lot of the electrical jobs which they do bring
681
00:39:19.840 --> 00:39:25.119
are remote from other places. They do create jobs, but
682
00:39:25.159 --> 00:39:29.000
then the jobs tend to go away and they start
683
00:39:29.039 --> 00:39:31.360
to level out. Yes, there'll be some local stuff, but
684
00:39:31.400 --> 00:39:33.639
at the end of the day, it's a good opportunity
685
00:39:33.679 --> 00:39:37.079
for electricians, plumbers and mechanical but there is a time
686
00:39:37.119 --> 00:39:41.880
when that's going to balance out and it's good for restaurants. Yeah,
687
00:39:41.960 --> 00:39:46.400
dare in construction, it is, but then once it's finished,
688
00:39:47.119 --> 00:39:49.519
it's not like a data center is going to employ
689
00:39:50.199 --> 00:39:51.199
two thousand people.
690
00:39:52.119 --> 00:39:57.719
It's not. So why sell yourself for a short term
691
00:39:57.760 --> 00:39:59.280
game for a long term headache.
692
00:40:00.079 --> 00:40:02.639
The only way you make this viable is to convince
693
00:40:02.679 --> 00:40:06.199
your local officials to scrutinize these contracts, in these agreements
694
00:40:06.239 --> 00:40:11.000
and come up with the way that benefits your community.
695
00:40:11.159 --> 00:40:16.559
Everybody feels the impact of it. Also come up with
696
00:40:16.760 --> 00:40:21.840
areas that allow this type of thing that doesn't impact
697
00:40:22.079 --> 00:40:23.719
the residential folks so much.
698
00:40:24.880 --> 00:40:25.320
But if you.
699
00:40:26.360 --> 00:40:30.800
Force them to worry about sound, if you force them
700
00:40:30.880 --> 00:40:33.320
to orbe put up walls around it that kind of
701
00:40:33.320 --> 00:40:36.360
blocks the sound out, rather than just sit the generator
702
00:40:36.360 --> 00:40:38.199
there and try to put some trees along the lining
703
00:40:38.239 --> 00:40:41.039
of it, that's not going to block the sound they
704
00:40:41.039 --> 00:40:43.840
can create. You've seen interstates with have the sound barriers
705
00:40:43.960 --> 00:40:45.639
right along the interstate and then you get on the
706
00:40:45.639 --> 00:40:47.519
other side of it and you can hardly hear the interstate.
707
00:40:48.280 --> 00:40:52.000
There's things that they could be forced to do. They
708
00:40:52.000 --> 00:40:54.559
could have closed loop order systems, they could have their
709
00:40:54.599 --> 00:40:59.199
own power production forced into them, or submit a plan
710
00:40:59.280 --> 00:41:01.000
for how they're going to do it that doesn't affect
711
00:41:01.000 --> 00:41:05.159
the local community. You can force them to do these things,
712
00:41:05.239 --> 00:41:07.840
still can give them incentives, but you have to force
713
00:41:07.880 --> 00:41:10.000
these things, and you have to hold them accountable for it.
714
00:41:11.920 --> 00:41:13.599
You have to hold them accountable for it.
715
00:41:14.119 --> 00:41:19.000
And there's nobody to blame at all but your local government.
716
00:41:19.559 --> 00:41:22.239
Don't blame the data center because you know damn well
717
00:41:22.239 --> 00:41:23.639
when you go out and buy a car, or you
718
00:41:23.679 --> 00:41:25.280
go out and buy something. You want the best deal
719
00:41:25.320 --> 00:41:29.239
you can get, don't you. You ain't no different. Somebody
720
00:41:29.280 --> 00:41:30.119
comes to do work for you.
721
00:41:30.119 --> 00:41:32.960
You always FoST on Facebook, Instagram, everywhere you go.
722
00:41:33.000 --> 00:41:35.559
I want somebody that's cheap and affordable. Do you not
723
00:41:35.679 --> 00:41:40.320
think the data centers don't want that shit too? I mean,
724
00:41:40.400 --> 00:41:44.480
come on, let's stop being blind here anyway.
725
00:41:44.800 --> 00:41:47.239
So that's the deal. I say.
726
00:41:47.400 --> 00:41:51.679
You have to hold your locals accountable and get involved
727
00:41:51.719 --> 00:41:54.639
that way. Protesting a data center itself is not going
728
00:41:54.719 --> 00:41:56.039
to do you any good because they're just going to
729
00:41:56.119 --> 00:41:57.199
push you out of the way and they're going to
730
00:41:57.239 --> 00:42:00.519
complete it. Because when it's done, it's just one building.
731
00:42:00.519 --> 00:42:01.760
It's sitting there. Who gives a shit?
732
00:42:01.800 --> 00:42:04.079
If you're standing at the entrance, nobody gives a shit
733
00:42:04.119 --> 00:42:06.159
because retail is not going in and out of it.
734
00:42:06.199 --> 00:42:06.800
They don't care.
735
00:42:07.559 --> 00:42:11.719
They're still gonna run, and you just wasted your time.
736
00:42:12.480 --> 00:42:15.760
Your time is better served trying to hold your local
737
00:42:15.840 --> 00:42:18.000
officials accountable. That's my thought on the process.
738
00:42:18.320 --> 00:42:18.639
Folks.
739
00:42:18.639 --> 00:42:20.480
I hope you enjoyed something today. Again, if you don't
740
00:42:20.519 --> 00:42:22.599
agree with what I have to say, that's fine. You're
741
00:42:22.719 --> 00:42:24.639
entitled to your opinion, I've just given you mine. Till
742
00:42:24.679 --> 00:42:27.119
next time, folks, Stay safe, God bless and we'll catch
743
00:42:27.119 --> 00:42:29.000
you on the next episode of Master the NEC.
744
00:42:30.159 --> 00:42:33.519
Thanks for tuning into another electrifying episode of the Master
745
00:42:33.639 --> 00:42:37.880
THENEC podcast. We hope you're feeling more powered up and
746
00:42:37.960 --> 00:42:40.519
ready to tackle the electrical world with the knowledge and
747
00:42:40.559 --> 00:42:45.199
confidence you need to succeed. Remember, in the electrical grade,
748
00:42:45.559 --> 00:42:48.119
knowledge is power, and we're here to make sure you
749
00:42:48.199 --> 00:42:52.599
stay flogged into the latest insights, tips and code up dates.
750
00:42:53.199 --> 00:42:57.039
If you enjoy today's episode, don't forget to subscribe, leave
751
00:42:57.119 --> 00:42:59.840
us a review, and share the podcast with your fellow
752
00:42:59.840 --> 00:43:04.760
like atricians and industry pros. Until next time, keep your
753
00:43:04.800 --> 00:43:08.719
tools sharp, your circuits clear, and you're my focused because
754
00:43:08.760 --> 00:43:11.639
here at the Master of the NEC podcast, we're all
755
00:43:11.679 --> 00:43:16.760
about sparking your success. Stay safe, stay smart, and keep
756
00:43:16.840 --> 00:43:20.760
mastering the trade. From all of us here at Electrical
757
00:43:20.800 --> 00:43:23.440
Code Academy, thank you for all your support and we
758
00:43:23.480 --> 00:43:25.599
will see you on the next amazing Master of the
759
00:43:25.679 --> 00:43:30.239
NEC podcast episode.