[00:00:00] Julie: Welcome to Edwin Talks, an education podcast for leaders, teachers, school, and trust staff, bringing together influential voices from across the sector for honest and thought provoking conversations. I'm your host, Julie Liddell, and today I'm chatting to Mary Palmer, CEO of the Teaching Awards Trust. Mary has led the organisation since 2016 driving the charity's growth and strategic direction in close [00:00:25] partnership with the chair and board of trustees.
[00:00:27] She's a passionate advocate for the work that takes place in education and firmly believes teaching deserves more respect, celebration and appreciation that it gets. Seeing the trust campaigns helps shift that conversation is, in her words, the best part of the job. Mary brings nearly 20 years of not-for-profit experience to the role.
[00:00:46] Before joining the Trust, she ran an EdTech charity and worked [00:00:50] internationally with London and Partners, the mayor of London's promotional organisation. It was great unto Mary and our conversation explores why recognising and celebrating educators really matters, not just for the individuals involved, but for how we value the profession more widely.
[00:01:07] We talk about changing the narrative around teaching the power of appreciation and initiatives such as Thank A Teacher Do and the [00:01:15] National Teaching Awards would shine a light on the incredible work happening across the education sector.
[00:01:26] Hi Mary, welcome to Edwin Talks, and thank you so much for joining us today.
[00:01:30] Mary: Hi, Julie. Thanks for having me.
[00:01:32] Julie: I've been really looking forward to this conversation, Mary, I just think by way of a celebration of all that is fabulous [00:01:40] about the education profession. So yeah, really excited to reach chatting today.
[00:01:44] So, Mary, your CEO of the Teaching Awards Trust, um, which is a charity that, uh, values and celebrates education. But before we kind of talk about the Teaching awards trust, I wonder can you just tell us a little bit about yourself and kind of what brought you to this role?
[00:02:02] Mary: Well, how far back should we go?[00:02:05]
[00:02:05] Yeah, I mean, my, my background is actually sort of international, I suppose. I studied languages at university and I just really love, you know, meeting people, travelling, building relationships, and so kind of, I've done various jobs using my languages, so I had a fun time for a while in the wine industry, which is probably for another [00:02:30] podcast.
[00:02:30] But, um, yeah, but the big chunk of my career before I came into education was I worked for the mayor of London, um, promoting London internationally to businesses looking to come and set up here. And so I worked a lot with, yeah, as I say, international businesses and they, a lot of businesses come to London for the talent pool.
[00:02:51] So through that role I started working [00:02:55] with, and I did a lot of work around the Olympic games and, and working with the sort of host boroughs and looking a lot at kind of regeneration of those areas, working with local schools and institutions and, and, um, universities. And, and yeah, I just became more, more and more interested in the kind of the educational journey through working with businesses and corporates.
[00:03:17] I, I sort of became more interested in the [00:03:20] educational journey of how young people get to that place. And then, and I don't think I'd really worked with that many teachers, well, I hadn't worked with them professionally, so I knew teachers, but it, it, it was then when I was kind of, those two worlds were kind colliding for me.
[00:03:35] I became more interested in education. I also, it really struck me that kind of coexisted in two quite separate worlds, teaching and those [00:03:45] that understood education and then everyone else who thought they knew education and talked about, you know, teaching. But very much, you know, I thought, I thought that's quite an interesting world where those two place where those two worlds collide because we all want the best, we all want the best for our young people.
[00:04:03] And also in that, you know, there's a lot of sort of talk about social mobility and there's businesses and there's [00:04:10] politicians obviously talking about the importance of helping young people and education being an enabler to that. I just thought. Who's listening to the teachers and talking to teachers.
[00:04:19] And I became more interested in education and that also coincided with me having children of my own. And you know, I did think about retraining as a teacher at that point because I was looking for a career that was more parent friendly rather than [00:04:35] sort of being travelling overseas so much. And. To be honest, a lot of people who were teachers were sort of, I think, you know, it is hard to retrain when you've got young children.
[00:04:45] So they were kind of like, oh, I dunno, it's quite hard. And anyway, so I, I kind of then got into education. So I ran a, a small sort of ed tech charity for a while that was trying to look at one, one-to-one learning and using [00:05:00] research to help inform how we could learn through technology. But that was really quite complex and I don't think we've still sort of resolved that, that issue as a society.
[00:05:10] And then I saw this role advertised and it was, it was part-time, it was like two and a half days a week. And it was, you know, even though the charity's been going for a long time, it was at that time it had, you know, it didn't have a lot of funding, sort of various programmes had [00:05:25] been cut. So it was a small organisation with a really simple remit, which was about celebrating teachers.
[00:05:31] And based on everything I've just sort of told you about where I was in my head of like, that just felt really simple and really important. And yeah, I have been doing that role ever since. So I've been running the, the Teaching Awards Trust for 10 years and I've grown it from, as I say, two [00:05:50] part-time staff to, we're now six, six staff members.
[00:05:53] We're, we're a small but mighty team. And yeah, I still really am driven by the purpose and the simplicity, but like, if it's so simple, how are we kind of still not quite getting it right in terms of really valuing an esteeming, the profession and the skills and the, and what goes into it. [00:06:15] And yeah, there's still a lot of unhelpful narratives in the media.
[00:06:19] So whilst I'm really proud of the work that we do, and we'll talk a bit about that, I'm still quite driven by the mission, which is to really value the impact of educators. 'cause I think that there's sort of no argument that education is important. Yeah. There's still things we can do to, to, to sort of the people who are delivering it, the workforce.[00:06:40]
[00:06:40] Julie: Yeah. So Mary, I really like that intersection though, as you say, is like, kind of coming from that business back, well, languages first and then the, the, the business background. But actually recognising that education is feeding the business and, and what that intersection looks like. And, and then kind of turning your, your view towards education.
[00:07:00] And I also wanna ask you about the wine industry, but I'm not going to, so [00:07:05] just to kind of pick up to your last point there really. And yeah, I suppose my next question will be around that, you know, obviously the teaching wards Trust has a really clear ambition. Um, and it's, as you say, to raise the profile of the, the kind of extraordinary work that goes on in education and to help people in education feel valued.
[00:07:25] And proud. So you've alluded a little bit there, you know, the media's, there's quite an unhelpful [00:07:30] narrative that's kind of pedalled in the media. Have you got any more to kind of elaborate on that? Or, or, or why do you think this mission is so important right now? Why do we need the work that you are doing?
[00:07:42] Mary: Yeah, I mean, I think celebrating education and creating pride in the profession has, has always mattered, hasn't it? It it matters to every profession. You should feel proud to do the job you do. And [00:07:55] I, I'm incredibly proud of the, the heritage of the Teaching Awards Trust and the fact that it was set up by Lord David Putnam nearly 30 years ago, I think when he was sort of, when he was given that mission and when he decided to create the teaching awards, it was basically new labour and it was, you know, I think it was education, education, education.
[00:08:17] So the morale in the staff rooms [00:08:20] was pretty low. And, you know, he kind of recognised, you know, he came from the film industry, so he produced The Chariots of Fire and this amazing icon, um, and of film. And he was like, we have the Oscars. You know, we've got actors running around talking about how great they are directors.
[00:08:37] Like we should create this same sense of pride within the teaching profession. So I think it remains as important [00:08:45] now as it was then. And I think where we are now is. I mean, everything's just a bit harder now, isn't it? I think we've made real inroads in terms of getting better at celebrating and showcasing, and social media has helped in many ways in that sense, as much as it has been unhelpful.
[00:09:05] So I think we have made progress, but I think there's so many pressures on [00:09:10] teachers and educators now because there's pressures on every facet of society, and particularly in public services. We live in an incredibly complex world. We have ai, we have changing and sort of special needs and pupil need, special needs, education, pupils needs.
[00:09:26] I mean, I, I don't need to kind of repeat everything that is sort of going on in this dystopian world that we are living in now, you know? But I think in terms of the [00:09:35] role the educators have, and also the fact that everyone thinks they're experts now, right? Don't they? So they can get on AI and sort of talk.
[00:09:44] They could, and I know I've, you know, I can't remember the statistic, but, but teachers are talking about sort of the complaints that are clearly being written by AI increasing and all, all this sort of stuff. So I think it just, we really need to highlight, as I said from the outset, the [00:10:00] skills, the skillset, and the professionalism that goes into the profession, not least the challenging circumstances that children are dealing with.
[00:10:09] And that is the thing that hits the headlines, right? You know, children in nappies, in schools and, and all of those things that are sort of click bait, but there's so much more to it. And I think we have to alert the whole country [00:10:25] and, and therefore the politicians will care more and change policies. It's a, it's a, you know, our theory of changes work with educators.
[00:10:33] To inform the general public and government and policy makers through examples about what's taking place and, and kind of work collaboratively to sort of how can we, how can we make schools and colleges and nurseries the most brilliant [00:10:50] place they can be? And how can we encourage people to go into this profession?
[00:10:54] Because it is an amazing profession and it changes lives and it's so rewarding. But I just think it's kind of needed more than ever. But it sort of always has been.
[00:11:04] Julie: But I suppose there's kind of a few parts to, to what you're saying there, isn't there, there there's one around educating people, society, policy makers, everybody, about the [00:11:15] kind of everyday work of what it means to be working in schools, which changes and grows and has morphed in response to the way that society's changing.
[00:11:23] 'cause I often think that, you know, teaching really over the last few years has, has had to be so responsive to the changes that have happened in society. And I'm not sure that is recognised, you know, of, of what that actually means and what that looks like. And then [00:11:40] as you say around that, kind of encouraging people into the profession, um, and making sure that they feel valued and, and celebrating just, you know, that amazing work that they are doing.
[00:11:51] And it's interesting, and I've said it on the podcast before, so people listening are probably going, oh, she's banging on about it again. But my daughter's just gone into teaching, um, and just started in brilliant. Yeah. Her first year, the, and obviously I taught for 26 [00:12:05] years. My husband taught, my mom taught my sister talk.
[00:12:08] And honestly, the amount of people who said to me, didn't you try and put her off? Like, I can't believe you've let her go into teaching. Like, and my response was, what's the best job either?
[00:12:21] Mary: Yeah. It's sort of weird, isn't it? Why does that thing, why does it still sort of keep happening? It doesn't happen in other [00:12:30] countries.
[00:12:30] Does it like Scandinavia or Germany or, you know, like so many countries. And I think, and the thing is, don't get me wrong, I know that there's a load of really healthy dialogue between the sector and between policy makers. But the bit that I'm saying, I think there's a, there's still work to be done is with people who aren't in either of those areas.
[00:12:51] Yes. Just to kind of shift societal perceptions, which is [00:12:55] quite a sort of, um, which is why I'm still here 10 years later trying to sort of solve it. But I think, yeah, it's about the idea that your daughter goes into teaching and everyone would go, oh, that's so amazing. You know what I mean? Right. And I'm not, I'm sure lots of people did, but they wouldn't be like, oh, aren't you worried about the workload?
[00:13:14] What, what? You know, I, I just think, yeah, it should be, it is held in high esteem, [00:13:20] but. Yeah, there's still these sort of things that hang around it, aren't they? Sort of certain negativities.
[00:13:25] Julie: Yeah, there are. And I think also, you know, feeding into that is the other kind of group of people who, as you say, have never worked in either be that not in the services or, or policy makers around education or working in education who also still approach it as a bit of a, oh I'm not surprised with your 12 weeks a year holiday and [00:13:45] finishing a three 30 as if it's an easy option.
[00:13:48] So you've got kind of like that viewpoint still feeding into, which is a, is a very old viewpoint and certainly one that I experienced as well is, well you teach as you all finish at half three and you know, and that sort of narrative as well. So there's lots of different narratives all feeding into the picture isn't there?
[00:14:04] Mary: Exactly. So I think that's really where I'm still so driven is like [00:14:10] we, we are a PR marketing vehicle for the profession and we are sort of here to help the profession because it's really like, you don't, as a teacher, you're not sort of saying, look, look at me, look at the brilliant work I'm doing. You're far too busy doing your job.
[00:14:25] But, you know, I think there are so many organisations that want the profession to be more valued and, and so we can all work collaboratively to [00:14:35] just shift that. And I think, as I say, there are reasons to be cheerful and hopeful and you know, I have the privilege of working with so many teachers that, that love their jobs.
[00:14:45] So I'm probably in a bit of a bubble and, and then I work with the One Show and organi really sort of great media partners who are like, we love this and we can't wait to tell these stories. But in and around that you just have to look at headlines and. And there's still, [00:15:00] yeah, there's still those stories that sort of like one step forward, two steps back sometimes, isn't it?
[00:15:04] So yeah, it's a, like everything in life, it's sort of complex. We just need to try and make it more simple, don't we? That's what I think.
[00:15:12] Julie: Yes. I love that. And I love that though. That's kind of one of those primary aims is to kind of change it at a societal level. Mary, I think that's great aspirations, you know, around what you're doing.
[00:15:22] I wonder, Mary, whether we can talk a little bit [00:15:25] about the ways that you do that at the Teaching Awards Trust. And one of the first things I wanted to ask you about is the thank teacher. So thank teacher is, the way I understand it is open all year round and it's a way for somebody to send a message to someone that they wanna say thank you to either currently or historically, and thank them for something they've done that really matters.
[00:15:49] Would that be right? [00:15:50] Can you tell us a bit more about it?
[00:15:51] Mary: Yeah, sure. I mean that's, that's the essence of it. So it's a free digital card platform that anyone can go onto at any time of the year and send a thank you message. They'll, the, the recipient will receive an e-card. We used to do physical cards, but that is like showing how long I've been at the organisation.
[00:16:11] Then that was just like, well, how can we scale something that's never gonna be [00:16:15] affordable? So it's a free digital card platform and it's anyone who works in education. So it's support teachers, head teachers, uh, support staff, schools, caretakers. You need an email address in order to be able to send your message.
[00:16:30] But it's, yeah, so it's open all year round and then. We over the last few years really have kind of really grown national thank teacher [00:16:40] day that's existed, you know, for quite a while. But I think COVID sort of did help because it was a time when everyone was thanking, you know, thanking the NHS, but everyone was homeschooling and sort of realising, oh my God, I couldn't be a teacher and please, when can they go back to school because, you know, I can't do this.
[00:17:00] So, and also I think everything, it's helpful when there's [00:17:05] a moment to galvanise the nation, isn't it? And, and it, and it is a medium moment, like as I keep saying, but this is about changing perception. So you need, you need markers for that, right? That's just the way life works now. So we have National Van Teach day, which is a, a grassroots sort of moment because everyone can get involved.
[00:17:24] The awards obviously, which I'll tell you a bit about as well, but they are obviously there's certain individuals that will end up winning an award [00:17:30] and being sort of maybe being on the tele, but thank teacher days. Everyone can get involved. But we have a sort of big campaign around it. So we have a, we have sort of celebrities that, you know, go on on their social channels, they'll go on tv, they'll talk about it being national thank teacher day.
[00:17:47] Um, it's when we announce the silver winners of the award. So we have thank teacher day celebrations taking place in [00:17:55] nurseries, schools and colleges when they'll find out that they've won an award. So that, so we have sort of two stages of the award, silver and then gold. But we really, you know, we really just want to get the nation talking about how brilliant teachers are.
[00:18:07] So we'll have celebrities on breakfast, radio all day. Everyone talking about drive time, you know, it's, it's that sort of thing every, and we'll have, you know, we've had sort of cat Deley on this morning being [00:18:20] surprised by her old teacher because this works, doesn't it? It it's then everyone's like going, oh, my teacher was, yeah, they had a real impact on me.
[00:18:29] You know, Mrs. So and so, and obviously everyone always talks about the Ian right moment. So it's that it's sort of creating an emotional response and giving the nation a reason to show their appreciation a day in which they can [00:18:45] show their appreciation. But I do think it's important to say it's all year round and it's not just tokenism, you know, it's like we want messages to be sent anytime of the day and obviously without even not through the platform, I'm teachers.
[00:18:57] Want, you know, just a, just a quiet word from the parents or the pupils saying, thank you so much for what you did, and just any kind of recognition helps. But national thank each day is, is that, yeah, we've [00:19:10] created a day where everyone can show their appreciation.
[00:19:13] Julie: Can you just remind me of what that date is?
[00:19:15] Mary?
[00:19:16] Mary: 16th of June. So it's on that day every year and, and last year we sent about a hundred, well, this year, sorry, about 175,000 cards on the day. Yeah. And we, we get a media reach of about 80 million. You know, it's a really important date. But the other thing is, [00:19:35] and I also don't know that that matters, but I don't really know if people know that we run it and we, it's the same organisation that run the National Teaching Awards and you know, does that matter?
[00:19:45] But. I don't necessarily want loads of commercial organisations selling merch on the back of it, but that's obviously what happens. But it is, you know, just, you heard it here first. It's a charity that runs National ZA Teacher today. But yeah, I mean it's um, [00:20:00] it's a really important campaign.
[00:20:01] Julie: Yeah, I think it's lovely and, and, and obviously I think it's great that it's a year round facility to be able to do that.
[00:20:07] And I think it's important that people know that. And, and certainly my experience of it as, you know, seeing it play out over the last few years, it does feel a celebratory day and there is that lovely kind of narrative coming through the media, but I've also seen schools kind of embrace it as well and schools [00:20:25] encourage parents and pupils to get involved as well.
[00:20:27] Mary: Yeah, that's really important to us as well because obviously we're trying to stimulate that sort of movement, but schools often do it with handwritten cards and they, you know, they find all different ways to kind of embrace the day, but it is an opportunity for them to say thank you to their staff. And it, I think it's a really important, we want to work really collaboratively with the sector to enable them [00:20:50] to use it as well because obviously that feels slightly strange to teachers to say, well, can everyone say thank you to me?
[00:20:56] Julie: Yeah.
[00:20:58] Mary: A leadership perspective within a trust, you know, we, we work really well with, with lots of local authorities and multi Academy trust to really say like, we've got resources, we have classroom resources, assemblies, like cards. You can download all the materials, things for children to colour in. 'cause it, [00:21:15] it just, we want it to be as engaging and as interactive as possible.
[00:21:18] Julie: Yeah, no, I think that's brilliant. I think I might have one occasion asked students to thank me mind and send me a postcard. Definitely. Your always better. Um, so moving on from thank teacher then, um, obviously you, you've kind of mentioned 'em already, the awards, the, the Oscars of teaching as it were, [00:21:40] so the Peas National Teaching Awards.
[00:21:42] Talk to me about that kind of national spotlight. So obviously this episode will just air, um, before the wonderful week on the one shore who are shining the light on the gold, um, award winners. But just can you tell us a little bit more about that and people who are tuning into the One shore, what they're going to see and what to expect and Yeah, just tell us all about it.
[00:22:03] Mary: Yeah, I mean they [00:22:05] are the Oscars of the education world, the, the OG Awards, um, as I said sort of earlier, they've been going since 1998, so Pearson of the headline sponsor, but we are a charity so that we're run by a not-for-profit organisation and they're free to enter. So yeah, kind of the awards are actually open.
[00:22:26] Now what we do is we open next year's awards [00:22:30] when, so when the one show coverage is on, so that, you know, 'cause you don't really want to like look at that and then sort of be inspired and then you're like, the awards aren't open yet. So we kind of have this. Relay of like the award when we're celebrating the 2026 winners, you can also then already enter the 2027 awards.
[00:22:47] So they're kind of open for a period of time till till sort of end of February, but it's like, it's like the old [00:22:55] tax return. You know, they all come in, we, we have it open for ages and we are like, enter, you know, like early bird enter early. 'cause we are just a small team trying to process it, but it's sort of, we get this flurry of entries near the deadline, but there is a nice long period to en to enter.
[00:23:11] We have 17 categories. We've just created a new category actually this year around sort of careers education and future skills because [00:23:20] again, it's, we really want to sort of raise awareness of the best practise that's taking place. And this is, you know, another sort of worry for, for young people and parents alike is how do we prepare young people for the world of work and what, so we really wanna sort of showcase and highlight the best practise that's going on.
[00:23:38] But, you know, our, our categories run from early years through to further [00:23:45] education and there's, there's a digital category, so there's all kinds of things. There's, there's 17 categories open to the whole of the uk and as I say, anyone can enter, we have an unsung hero category where you, that's the one that parents can enter and that is open to anyone who works in a, in a school.
[00:24:02] So again, it could be support staff, um, as well as as teachers and head teachers. But so we sort of have this [00:24:10] big call for entries. In this period from now and then, and then they're judged by a panel of, of sort of about 45 volunteer judges. And that's really important to us. They're not, it's not just a paper, you know, award system where if you write a really good entry, you'll you, you know, you might go through, they are visited again, pre COVID, it was all in person.
[00:24:32] Now it's sort of hybrid and obviously that [00:24:35] works in terms of scaling things up. And all of our judges are volunteers and quite a lot of them are teachers themselves, so it's hard for them to take time. But yeah, there's a really rigorous process in terms of shortlisting and deciding who are, who is going through.
[00:24:49] And then the silver winners are announced on Thank A Teacher Day. And we have about, about a hundred across the uk. We purposefully asked the schools and colleges [00:25:00] and nurseries to sort of have it in their setting so that they can celebrate with their whole community. And they go to town. They have like, I mean, I remember once one person, this is when the queen was alive, she was like, they wrote, they said, we've invited the queen, we've invited, you know, I don't think she ever went Paddington.
[00:25:19] Yeah, Paddington. But it's a real celebration and it's lovely. And it's in June. So [00:25:25] you often get like, you know, out in the school if they're lucky enough to have a sort of field, you know, they're, they're celebrating with the whole community. Big celebrations. And then the gold winners are announced in November.
[00:25:35] And as you said, we have a week long celebration of education on the one show. And then we have a big fancy glittering award ceremony where everyone, uh, all the silver widows are invited. They get an invite for themselves and a [00:25:50] guest and it's free, and they get a night in a hotel. And then they also get, you know, the opportunity to buy some additional tickets for colleagues and.
[00:25:58] It's just a lovely celebration where they get to dress up and feel celebrated and yeah, and then we begin again. That's why I've been here so long. It's sort of, you're just caught in a cycle so it's so hard to, to not keep doing it 'cause it's such a lovely thing to celebrate. But I [00:26:15] mean, what, what we really want is more schools and, and people to enter.
[00:26:19] You know, you might think, well it's not for me or you if you're a small school, you might sort of think, well I haven't got a marketing department to help me write the entry. But we provide lots of, you know, our, our amazing awards manager, Kate, she's so brilliant. And she'll get on a call and say, this is, you know, we've got guidance about what a good entry looks like.
[00:26:36] And, and you know, the other thing is, is that's why we have thank a [00:26:40] teacher because not everyone thinks awards are for them. So we've got both campaigns that really kind of run the gam gamut of, you know, ways in which you can show your appreciation and show that you value your staff.
[00:26:52] Julie: And I've watched some of the footage and, and looked at the photos and it looks fantastic.
[00:26:56] And I suppose just to your point there, and I'm pleased you did a bit of kind of mythbusting, if you like, around who this is open to it, [00:27:05] it does feel incredibly inclusive and, and I certainly would want schools to feel like that. I'm from a small town in the northeast of England and I'm just thinking of somebody listening in a small school thinking, well it's in London.
[00:27:18] Like, you know, the, I mean some of the guests that are p Stephen Fry, Joanna Lumley, Lenny Henry, you know, Helen Miran and you're looking at all of this glitterati and thinking, but that's not for me, that's [00:27:30] not saying thank you to people like I am more like in this school. But I think that what you do and around that and that myth busting and I'm glad to hear there's that support around that application process that anybody listening wherever they are should feel like that's open to them.
[00:27:46] 'cause it certainly feels like that from an outsider's perspective. Yeah.
[00:27:50] Mary: Yeah, exactly. And I think the other thing is we do a lot of work with [00:27:55] regional media, like local media because it's not just about that moment. And, and also I'll talk briefly about sort of our third campaign, which is some sort of regional events because it's not, you know, you have thank a teacher day and you have, you've won an award and you might be on the tv, but as I said earlier, it's, it's about a sort of a bigger shift that we want.
[00:28:15] It's not just sort of 15 minutes of fame. So the whole point of these campaigns is to [00:28:20] share best practise. And so it's really important that kind of local representation and local media covering it. We've had winners who, you know, the people will come up to them in the supermarket and they're like sort of local celebrities.
[00:28:34] They're just doing their shopping and they've like, I've seen you on the tv. So it, it is an enabler so that it can reach every part of the country. And also it's like, I think even the [00:28:45] process of writing down. What you've done is really important. That's really validating about, 'cause we have like whole team and whole school awards.
[00:28:53] So it's not just about picking an individual, it's also what have we achieved. And, and sort of putting that entry together is also a really important process. And everyone who enters gets a certificate of excellence. I mean there's, there's sort of criteria of you have to, you can't just write your name and send [00:29:10] it in and you'll get a certificate, but you know, if you do, so there's, there's all different stages.
[00:29:16] 'cause we are mindful that we don't wanna waste people's time and there will only be certain amount of award winners who go on. But it's, it's that process. We really want to encourage that process of saying, the work I do is worth celebrating and you can really go on to be sharing best practise on a local level and [00:29:35] hopefully a national level and even an international level.
[00:29:37] Julie: Do you know, and I love that and I love that, that it's got that kind of nuanced approach to it. 'cause actually thinking about how people feel about being recognised, you know, like it's the same when you're thinking about it on a cultural piece, isn't it? In a school where you're thinking, well how do we show value?
[00:29:52] Well, getting some people on the stage and giving them a big award and a big cheer and a big is the best thing ever. And they would love it. Whereas others [00:30:00] would prefer that quiet, oh, I've got little email and, and it was little Lee card and it's made me feel really good, but I'm not actually gonna tell anybody else.
[00:30:08] That's just kind of a private and personal thing. So really what you're doing there is kind of recognising that different people have different approaches to, to how they would want to be recognised in a way. So I'm really interested to hear about your third offer. Mary, tell us about what's [00:30:25] your, what's your third kind of regional?
[00:30:27] Mary: We launched some new events last year, education Insights, and that is the idea behind that is that we want to create this sort of ongoing relationship with, with past winners, but also sort of on a local level. Because like you say it, you know, London's fab, I'm, I've, you know, I love London, but just to sort of come to one event a year and then you've won an [00:30:50] award and then what happens to you.
[00:30:51] So it's about creating ongoing opportunities. So we, we've hosted five events in five regions that they're sort of themed, so on, on topics like resilience and creativity. And, and then we are convening kind of some of our award-winning teachers who are sharing that best practise. They're bringing colleagues from their, from schools that they know, you know, different schools within a, within their trust.[00:31:15]
[00:31:15] But we're also bringing sort of keynote speakers and panels. The idea is we do events really well. We bring a bit of glamour and we bring, and we have a great network of teachers. We had Flo, Benjamin Baroness, Flo Benjamin, I think talking about citizenship. But we also then on the panel had, you know, people with expertise and citizenship and chartered College of teaching and, and various sort of experts.
[00:31:38] And then we also had, [00:31:40] uh, award-winning teachers from our network talking about how they'd really, you know, encouraged and embraced that within their setting and just giving practical examples. And that was in Bristol, but that was just one example. So you'd sort of come away feeling really inspired.
[00:31:55] You'd heard some, you know, and we, we sort of have some canapes and a nice glass of wine. And so that's the idea behind kind of trying to [00:32:05] give some continuity to the campaigns. 'cause I think in terms of what we do, it's about celebrating, valuing, and then it's about sharing best practise. Because I think that's what we all need in every profession, isn't it?
[00:32:17] To be a bit inspired by practise and to have it, but, but peer to peer, like we are not, you know, the charity itself, teaching always trust isn't gonna tell everyone how to do good teaching, but we've got a great [00:32:30] network of teachers who, who might help. So that's, that's the idea behind it. So that's been a sort of recent series of events that we've created.
[00:32:39] So yeah.
[00:32:40] Julie: Brilliant. I mean, there's so much there that you're offering, um, as you say, in terms of that celebrating that valuing and that sharing good practise. And I imagine the impact on people who are touched by, you know, some of the work that you do. I [00:32:55] imagine that it is, you know, uh, phenomenal and, and certainly, you know, um, you've got some kind of people on your website, haven't you, who were sharing what it felt like to, to get those awards or to be recognised.
[00:33:06] And actually I'm speaking to one of them next week on the podcast, Ben Levinson. So I'm gonna ask him how he felt.
[00:33:14] Mary: Oh, well he'll tell you all about his gold suit. Ask him about his gold suit. I
[00:33:18] Julie: gotta ask him about his [00:33:20] gold suit. That's brilliant. So just when I was looking at your website, I thought, oh, well there's, there's a face that I know.
[00:33:25] Yeah, I think it's really interesting to kind of also look at the impact, isn't it on, on what that does to people and, and their esteem and their, you know, I just think, um, yeah, that's another interesting side of it all.
[00:33:39] Mary: Yeah, I think it's something that I'd love to do more of, like, you know, we're still a small team, but, and [00:33:45] we sort of get case studies and testimonials, but I think that piece around what recognition does, I mean, we know anecdotally that it can help with your sort of career development and, and all those different things.
[00:33:57] It, it builds confidence, doesn't it, which is kind of the, the magic ingredient to all of us. If we, if we feel that we got good morale and, and self-esteem, then it helps us to be better in our job. So that, but that's [00:34:10] sort of a harder thing to measure. So we've got the kind of, the amount of media coverage we get and the, the articles and the way that people feel after the awards.
[00:34:18] But yeah, I mean, I think it, it does have an incredible impact, but like I say, I think the bigger mission is like that, that whole shift inside societal perceptions, I keep coming back to that as well. So there's real individual impact because it's an amazing experience and we [00:34:35] really care so much that everyone who who works with us just feels, yeah.
[00:34:39] Has an amazing experience. But then also it's like, well, what is it doing to have it on the most watched, you know, the one show and the, the sort of viewing figures it gets across the week and national thank teacher day. It's like we are reminding people. Who aren't thinking about these things consciously that yeah, what's, what's going on in education.
[00:34:59] [00:35:00] Uh, so yeah, it hopefully it has an impact.
[00:35:02] Julie: I think it was Steven Fry on the video o on your website, he says something like, uh, what's needed is like a reappraisal of one of you highest callings. Um, I think that's how we, how he kind of phrases it. And, and that's that societal level, isn't it? That's that kind of, you know, how can we shift and, and reframe the perception in [00:35:25] society whilst at the same time have that positive impact on the individuals and the schools within the profession.
[00:35:31] Um, but I loved that and I loved that it was Stephen Fry who said it.
[00:35:34] Mary: Of course he put it far more articulately than I could. Yeah. But I mean, I had, we, we celebrated our 25th anniversary and with, and, and sort of Lord David Putnam came back and we, we had a lovely event at number 10 and he was just, you [00:35:50] know, considering as I say, he's sort of produced Chariots of Fire and all these amazing films and he was like, that's the proudest thing I've ever, that the thing I'm most proud of was creating the teaching awards.
[00:36:00] So it just is quite simple, isn't it? If we can really value the work that takes place in education, then I think we would all benefit. And I know that. Yeah. I don't wanna sound patronising 'cause I know we all value education, but Yeah. Well let's leave the [00:36:15] wording of it to Steven Fright.
[00:36:18] Julie: So eloquent. So you must have heard so many stories, Mary, and read so many stories and read so many entrants.
[00:36:26] And Mary's, this is a bit unfair to ask this question, but has there any that have stayed with you or been particularly kind of a great example of why the work that you do matters? Any that you'd be happy to [00:36:40] share? Or if that feels too much, maybe something from your own personal experience of somebody who's kind of had an impact on you?
[00:36:46] Mary: Oh, you can't, that's like asking me to pick my favourite child. I can't possibly, um. It's really difficult, isn't it? Because we don't also want to create unattainable examples of teaching practise and pastoral care. So it, and it's a bit like, you know, [00:37:05] 'cause we work a lot with the media who want the, sort of, the headline, of course we've got teachers who have like, you know, opened up their homes to pupils and gone out and bought clothes and, and, you know, for students in their care or, you know, guided them personally through university visits.
[00:37:23] It, it is sort of endless. But I, I know something that we always just really want to, to highlight is [00:37:30] just really caring, like quite thoughtful practise as well. So it doesn't, as you say, to sort of distil it down to like the top examples I can do, but I, I I suppose it's just really, it is such a range of things, but what we're seeing a lot, what we're seeing, a lot of examples in this year's awards for example, is teachers focusing on young people's wellbeing and mental health.
[00:37:53] I think that's a really [00:37:55] interesting theme. I mean, it's always been that way because that's sort of essentially teachers are the first point of care, aren't they, for young people. And you know, we did some research this year for national and teacher day with sort of parents and school children about their perception of the role of, of teachers.
[00:38:12] And it's like, they're a counsellor, they're a, a therapist and then you sort of feel like, is that creating unnecessary burden on teachers that oh my god, I'm not, you [00:38:20] know, so it's, I I do wanna be careful when sort of picking out examples of best practise because, and, and award winners, you know, for that reason.
[00:38:28] But yeah, I think we've got sort of examples this year of teachers who are doing a lot of outdoor learning, forest schools, things like that. So I, I love all of those kinds of examples. It's not about attainment, it's never about sort of they got their [00:38:45] grades from this to that and, and steads and everything.
[00:38:47] It's just about the impact that they have on young people. And I just remember, I mean, to be honest, every year I'm in bits. I'm like in floods of tears. I'm so in the wrong job for that. I'm such a softie. But I remember one school where he, they'd set up a forest school and he's, he's one of our judges now.
[00:39:07] He was head at that school at the time and they [00:39:10] just, these kids were like, I just didn't wanna go to school before and I went through five different schools and now I just can't wait. It's my favourite place to be. And that's just, that's just everything, isn't it? I think it's those human stories. And, and I do like, I will repeat that.
[00:39:25] I definitely don't want it to be sort of like some big list of everything you've done. 'cause that's, there's so much of that in life anyway isn't there, of just like, oh my [00:39:35] gosh, am I enough? So. It's really hard because you wanna exemplify, but you also don't want to sort of intimidate. But I think all teachers are doing amazing work in their own way.
[00:39:45] Julie: I think you're right. Have you ever sent a thank a teacher card then to a former teacher?
[00:39:50] Mary: So I, I've sent them to my children's teachers, but I always, I get, well, not, I always don't, but when I've done sort of interviews and stuff on thank a teacher day that they [00:40:00] always, you know, on the radio, they're always like, so who was the teacher that influenced you?
[00:40:03] And I always cite, um, Mr. Murray, who was no longer with us, but he, I was good at French, like I was good at languages. So he sort of said, why not do joint honours at university and, and do Italian? Because he just, he was like, he loved all classics and he was like, really loved Italian. And it wasn't, [00:40:25] it just, I mean, I didn't teach Italian at the time, so it wasn't a subject that I was familiar with.
[00:40:31] But it really sort of in many ways changed my life because I went on to study it and I, you know, I, I've just have a love of Italy and we've just had so many lovely holidays there and I just, yeah, it kind of really enriched my life. But it was a sort of, it was just a meeting where I'm like, what I dunno what to go and do.
[00:40:49] [00:40:50] And I mean, those were in my, the lovely days where you didn't have to pay for university, so you were a bit more like, what shall I go and study now? It's, you know, but it was a sort of sets you on a path that that can, I mean it's not like I, I'm doing a job that I use my tally and now, but it, it's enriched my life I suppose.
[00:41:10] And that's sort of, yeah,
[00:41:11] Julie: when you kind of think about that, he may or may not have ever [00:41:15] remembered that.
[00:41:16] Mary: No, exactly. Yeah. I don't know. I don't, I didn't ever send him a thank you card 'cause he'd retired, but yeah,
[00:41:24] Julie: that's kind of the invisible impact, isn't it, that teachers and staff in education, you know, support staff, office staff, like everybody is having that invisible impact that they don't even realise.
[00:41:38] Mary: Exactly. And that's [00:41:40] what's the pro creates the pride and the profession. It's just reminding people when I know, I think as I say, like as you know, everyone's always like, oh, you should get Adele, you should get Ian. Right? You know, okay, I'll just got them on speed, girl. But you know, those examples of, of really high profile moments, they speak to all of us because that's, you know, we all know that person, don't we?
[00:42:02] And then hopefully that speaks to the [00:42:05] profession and says, yes, we do make a difference as well. So it can be in the every day where they're in the classroom, you feel that you've made a connection and you've obviously through to the big celebrity moment when someone is, has achieved so much and they're like, I wouldn't be here if it weren't for my teacher.
[00:42:22] And I mean, I love, um, desert Island discs or you know, and I, they always thank teach there, there's always like, when they're talking through their [00:42:30] life, they'll often be a teacher, won't they? That's had that pivotal role in, in people who've gone on to achieve great things. So yeah, it's really important.
[00:42:40] Julie: It is Mary and you know, and it's wonderful to hear about all the work that you're doing and Will absolutely will share all of these links in the show notes and you've done a, an incredible job of, of kind of explaining, you know, what's available all year round and, and how [00:42:55] people can kind of enter. But I think most of all, that importance both on an individual and a school level, but also at a societal level.
[00:43:03] So I've got one more question for you, Mary. It's our final question actually, as you've just mentioned, desert Island discs. It kind of, uh, um, is a nice little segue after that because my final question for you, uh, Mary, is if your career journey had a theme song or a [00:43:20] tune, what would it be?
[00:43:22] Mary: Oh gosh, that's a tricky one.
[00:43:26] Uh, maybe I'm, I was just like, I dunno why 500 miles by the proclaimers came into my head,
[00:43:33] Julie: and that's a great stomping tune. So why not?
[00:43:38] Mary: I, I dunno why I'm panic, panic answered. But I think like, you know, this idea that, um, sort of [00:43:45] still going, still going, trying to,
[00:43:48] Julie: fighting the good fight,
[00:43:49] Mary: fighting the good cause.
[00:43:51] Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure I could, if you'd give me sort of longer I can think of, I'm like, I love my music, so I could come up with lots of different ideas. But
[00:43:59] Julie: I often think that the, uh, the one that kind of, the, the simplest response and the one that comes first is the usually the right one. That's wonderful, Mary.
[00:44:07] And, and as I say, I think it's [00:44:10] important, there really has to be a narrative around the challenges and the difficulties in the education system hasn't there. They have to be highlighted, they have to be flagged, but it can't be the only narrative and it can't be to the detriment of the profession and to the point where it's becoming an unhelpful narrative.
[00:44:28] So the work that you are doing to me kind of is the, the other side of it, isn't it? And it's that [00:44:35] other side of also recognising the value in the profession and making people feel valued. So I just think you're doing an incredible job. So thank you for everything that you do.
[00:44:44] Mary: Thank you for having me.
[00:44:45] Julie: It's been a joy and I really look forward to watching the One Show and probably crying all the way throughout the
[00:44:51] Mary: morning. I was gonna say, yeah, get the hanky. Get the hankies out and be prepared to cry. That's the aim.
[00:44:59] Julie: I love it. [00:45:00] Thank you so much, Mary.
[00:45:01] Mary: Thank you Julie. Lovely to chat to you.
[00:45:05] Julie: Thank you for listening to Edwin Talks.
[00:45:07] If you enjoyed this episode, please follow or subscribe to the podcast wherever you're listening. And if you'd like to find out more about the work, Edwin are doing the schools and trusts, then follow us on LinkedIn. If you want to discover more about any of the topics discussed in this episode, you can find all the resources and links in the show [00:45:25] notes.
[00:00:27] She's a passionate advocate for the work that takes place in education and firmly believes teaching deserves more respect, celebration and appreciation that it gets. Seeing the trust campaigns helps shift that conversation is, in her words, the best part of the job. Mary brings nearly 20 years of not-for-profit experience to the role.
[00:00:46] Before joining the Trust, she ran an EdTech charity and worked [00:00:50] internationally with London and Partners, the mayor of London's promotional organisation. It was great unto Mary and our conversation explores why recognising and celebrating educators really matters, not just for the individuals involved, but for how we value the profession more widely.
[00:01:07] We talk about changing the narrative around teaching the power of appreciation and initiatives such as Thank A Teacher Do and the [00:01:15] National Teaching Awards would shine a light on the incredible work happening across the education sector.
[00:01:26] Hi Mary, welcome to Edwin Talks, and thank you so much for joining us today.
[00:01:30] Mary: Hi, Julie. Thanks for having me.
[00:01:32] Julie: I've been really looking forward to this conversation, Mary, I just think by way of a celebration of all that is fabulous [00:01:40] about the education profession. So yeah, really excited to reach chatting today.
[00:01:44] So, Mary, your CEO of the Teaching Awards Trust, um, which is a charity that, uh, values and celebrates education. But before we kind of talk about the Teaching awards trust, I wonder can you just tell us a little bit about yourself and kind of what brought you to this role?
[00:02:02] Mary: Well, how far back should we go?[00:02:05]
[00:02:05] Yeah, I mean, my, my background is actually sort of international, I suppose. I studied languages at university and I just really love, you know, meeting people, travelling, building relationships, and so kind of, I've done various jobs using my languages, so I had a fun time for a while in the wine industry, which is probably for another [00:02:30] podcast.
[00:02:30] But, um, yeah, but the big chunk of my career before I came into education was I worked for the mayor of London, um, promoting London internationally to businesses looking to come and set up here. And so I worked a lot with, yeah, as I say, international businesses and they, a lot of businesses come to London for the talent pool.
[00:02:51] So through that role I started working [00:02:55] with, and I did a lot of work around the Olympic games and, and working with the sort of host boroughs and looking a lot at kind of regeneration of those areas, working with local schools and institutions and, and, um, universities. And, and yeah, I just became more, more and more interested in the kind of the educational journey through working with businesses and corporates.
[00:03:17] I, I sort of became more interested in the [00:03:20] educational journey of how young people get to that place. And then, and I don't think I'd really worked with that many teachers, well, I hadn't worked with them professionally, so I knew teachers, but it, it, it was then when I was kind of, those two worlds were kind colliding for me.
[00:03:35] I became more interested in education. I also, it really struck me that kind of coexisted in two quite separate worlds, teaching and those [00:03:45] that understood education and then everyone else who thought they knew education and talked about, you know, teaching. But very much, you know, I thought, I thought that's quite an interesting world where those two place where those two worlds collide because we all want the best, we all want the best for our young people.
[00:04:03] And also in that, you know, there's a lot of sort of talk about social mobility and there's businesses and there's [00:04:10] politicians obviously talking about the importance of helping young people and education being an enabler to that. I just thought. Who's listening to the teachers and talking to teachers.
[00:04:19] And I became more interested in education and that also coincided with me having children of my own. And you know, I did think about retraining as a teacher at that point because I was looking for a career that was more parent friendly rather than [00:04:35] sort of being travelling overseas so much. And. To be honest, a lot of people who were teachers were sort of, I think, you know, it is hard to retrain when you've got young children.
[00:04:45] So they were kind of like, oh, I dunno, it's quite hard. And anyway, so I, I kind of then got into education. So I ran a, a small sort of ed tech charity for a while that was trying to look at one, one-to-one learning and using [00:05:00] research to help inform how we could learn through technology. But that was really quite complex and I don't think we've still sort of resolved that, that issue as a society.
[00:05:10] And then I saw this role advertised and it was, it was part-time, it was like two and a half days a week. And it was, you know, even though the charity's been going for a long time, it was at that time it had, you know, it didn't have a lot of funding, sort of various programmes had [00:05:25] been cut. So it was a small organisation with a really simple remit, which was about celebrating teachers.
[00:05:31] And based on everything I've just sort of told you about where I was in my head of like, that just felt really simple and really important. And yeah, I have been doing that role ever since. So I've been running the, the Teaching Awards Trust for 10 years and I've grown it from, as I say, two [00:05:50] part-time staff to, we're now six, six staff members.
[00:05:53] We're, we're a small but mighty team. And yeah, I still really am driven by the purpose and the simplicity, but like, if it's so simple, how are we kind of still not quite getting it right in terms of really valuing an esteeming, the profession and the skills and the, and what goes into it. [00:06:15] And yeah, there's still a lot of unhelpful narratives in the media.
[00:06:19] So whilst I'm really proud of the work that we do, and we'll talk a bit about that, I'm still quite driven by the mission, which is to really value the impact of educators. 'cause I think that there's sort of no argument that education is important. Yeah. There's still things we can do to, to, to sort of the people who are delivering it, the workforce.[00:06:40]
[00:06:40] Julie: Yeah. So Mary, I really like that intersection though, as you say, is like, kind of coming from that business back, well, languages first and then the, the, the business background. But actually recognising that education is feeding the business and, and what that intersection looks like. And, and then kind of turning your, your view towards education.
[00:07:00] And I also wanna ask you about the wine industry, but I'm not going to, so [00:07:05] just to kind of pick up to your last point there really. And yeah, I suppose my next question will be around that, you know, obviously the teaching wards Trust has a really clear ambition. Um, and it's, as you say, to raise the profile of the, the kind of extraordinary work that goes on in education and to help people in education feel valued.
[00:07:25] And proud. So you've alluded a little bit there, you know, the media's, there's quite an unhelpful [00:07:30] narrative that's kind of pedalled in the media. Have you got any more to kind of elaborate on that? Or, or, or why do you think this mission is so important right now? Why do we need the work that you are doing?
[00:07:42] Mary: Yeah, I mean, I think celebrating education and creating pride in the profession has, has always mattered, hasn't it? It it matters to every profession. You should feel proud to do the job you do. And [00:07:55] I, I'm incredibly proud of the, the heritage of the Teaching Awards Trust and the fact that it was set up by Lord David Putnam nearly 30 years ago, I think when he was sort of, when he was given that mission and when he decided to create the teaching awards, it was basically new labour and it was, you know, I think it was education, education, education.
[00:08:17] So the morale in the staff rooms [00:08:20] was pretty low. And, you know, he kind of recognised, you know, he came from the film industry, so he produced The Chariots of Fire and this amazing icon, um, and of film. And he was like, we have the Oscars. You know, we've got actors running around talking about how great they are directors.
[00:08:37] Like we should create this same sense of pride within the teaching profession. So I think it remains as important [00:08:45] now as it was then. And I think where we are now is. I mean, everything's just a bit harder now, isn't it? I think we've made real inroads in terms of getting better at celebrating and showcasing, and social media has helped in many ways in that sense, as much as it has been unhelpful.
[00:09:05] So I think we have made progress, but I think there's so many pressures on [00:09:10] teachers and educators now because there's pressures on every facet of society, and particularly in public services. We live in an incredibly complex world. We have ai, we have changing and sort of special needs and pupil need, special needs, education, pupils needs.
[00:09:26] I mean, I, I don't need to kind of repeat everything that is sort of going on in this dystopian world that we are living in now, you know? But I think in terms of the [00:09:35] role the educators have, and also the fact that everyone thinks they're experts now, right? Don't they? So they can get on AI and sort of talk.
[00:09:44] They could, and I know I've, you know, I can't remember the statistic, but, but teachers are talking about sort of the complaints that are clearly being written by AI increasing and all, all this sort of stuff. So I think it just, we really need to highlight, as I said from the outset, the [00:10:00] skills, the skillset, and the professionalism that goes into the profession, not least the challenging circumstances that children are dealing with.
[00:10:09] And that is the thing that hits the headlines, right? You know, children in nappies, in schools and, and all of those things that are sort of click bait, but there's so much more to it. And I think we have to alert the whole country [00:10:25] and, and therefore the politicians will care more and change policies. It's a, it's a, you know, our theory of changes work with educators.
[00:10:33] To inform the general public and government and policy makers through examples about what's taking place and, and kind of work collaboratively to sort of how can we, how can we make schools and colleges and nurseries the most brilliant [00:10:50] place they can be? And how can we encourage people to go into this profession?
[00:10:54] Because it is an amazing profession and it changes lives and it's so rewarding. But I just think it's kind of needed more than ever. But it sort of always has been.
[00:11:04] Julie: But I suppose there's kind of a few parts to, to what you're saying there, isn't there, there there's one around educating people, society, policy makers, everybody, about the [00:11:15] kind of everyday work of what it means to be working in schools, which changes and grows and has morphed in response to the way that society's changing.
[00:11:23] 'cause I often think that, you know, teaching really over the last few years has, has had to be so responsive to the changes that have happened in society. And I'm not sure that is recognised, you know, of, of what that actually means and what that looks like. And then [00:11:40] as you say around that, kind of encouraging people into the profession, um, and making sure that they feel valued and, and celebrating just, you know, that amazing work that they are doing.
[00:11:51] And it's interesting, and I've said it on the podcast before, so people listening are probably going, oh, she's banging on about it again. But my daughter's just gone into teaching, um, and just started in brilliant. Yeah. Her first year, the, and obviously I taught for 26 [00:12:05] years. My husband taught, my mom taught my sister talk.
[00:12:08] And honestly, the amount of people who said to me, didn't you try and put her off? Like, I can't believe you've let her go into teaching. Like, and my response was, what's the best job either?
[00:12:21] Mary: Yeah. It's sort of weird, isn't it? Why does that thing, why does it still sort of keep happening? It doesn't happen in other [00:12:30] countries.
[00:12:30] Does it like Scandinavia or Germany or, you know, like so many countries. And I think, and the thing is, don't get me wrong, I know that there's a load of really healthy dialogue between the sector and between policy makers. But the bit that I'm saying, I think there's a, there's still work to be done is with people who aren't in either of those areas.
[00:12:51] Yes. Just to kind of shift societal perceptions, which is [00:12:55] quite a sort of, um, which is why I'm still here 10 years later trying to sort of solve it. But I think, yeah, it's about the idea that your daughter goes into teaching and everyone would go, oh, that's so amazing. You know what I mean? Right. And I'm not, I'm sure lots of people did, but they wouldn't be like, oh, aren't you worried about the workload?
[00:13:14] What, what? You know, I, I just think, yeah, it should be, it is held in high esteem, [00:13:20] but. Yeah, there's still these sort of things that hang around it, aren't they? Sort of certain negativities.
[00:13:25] Julie: Yeah, there are. And I think also, you know, feeding into that is the other kind of group of people who, as you say, have never worked in either be that not in the services or, or policy makers around education or working in education who also still approach it as a bit of a, oh I'm not surprised with your 12 weeks a year holiday and [00:13:45] finishing a three 30 as if it's an easy option.
[00:13:48] So you've got kind of like that viewpoint still feeding into, which is a, is a very old viewpoint and certainly one that I experienced as well is, well you teach as you all finish at half three and you know, and that sort of narrative as well. So there's lots of different narratives all feeding into the picture isn't there?
[00:14:04] Mary: Exactly. So I think that's really where I'm still so driven is like [00:14:10] we, we are a PR marketing vehicle for the profession and we are sort of here to help the profession because it's really like, you don't, as a teacher, you're not sort of saying, look, look at me, look at the brilliant work I'm doing. You're far too busy doing your job.
[00:14:25] But, you know, I think there are so many organisations that want the profession to be more valued and, and so we can all work collaboratively to [00:14:35] just shift that. And I think, as I say, there are reasons to be cheerful and hopeful and you know, I have the privilege of working with so many teachers that, that love their jobs.
[00:14:45] So I'm probably in a bit of a bubble and, and then I work with the One Show and organi really sort of great media partners who are like, we love this and we can't wait to tell these stories. But in and around that you just have to look at headlines and. And there's still, [00:15:00] yeah, there's still those stories that sort of like one step forward, two steps back sometimes, isn't it?
[00:15:04] So yeah, it's a, like everything in life, it's sort of complex. We just need to try and make it more simple, don't we? That's what I think.
[00:15:12] Julie: Yes. I love that. And I love that though. That's kind of one of those primary aims is to kind of change it at a societal level. Mary, I think that's great aspirations, you know, around what you're doing.
[00:15:22] I wonder, Mary, whether we can talk a little bit [00:15:25] about the ways that you do that at the Teaching Awards Trust. And one of the first things I wanted to ask you about is the thank teacher. So thank teacher is, the way I understand it is open all year round and it's a way for somebody to send a message to someone that they wanna say thank you to either currently or historically, and thank them for something they've done that really matters.
[00:15:49] Would that be right? [00:15:50] Can you tell us a bit more about it?
[00:15:51] Mary: Yeah, sure. I mean that's, that's the essence of it. So it's a free digital card platform that anyone can go onto at any time of the year and send a thank you message. They'll, the, the recipient will receive an e-card. We used to do physical cards, but that is like showing how long I've been at the organisation.
[00:16:11] Then that was just like, well, how can we scale something that's never gonna be [00:16:15] affordable? So it's a free digital card platform and it's anyone who works in education. So it's support teachers, head teachers, uh, support staff, schools, caretakers. You need an email address in order to be able to send your message.
[00:16:30] But it's, yeah, so it's open all year round and then. We over the last few years really have kind of really grown national thank teacher [00:16:40] day that's existed, you know, for quite a while. But I think COVID sort of did help because it was a time when everyone was thanking, you know, thanking the NHS, but everyone was homeschooling and sort of realising, oh my God, I couldn't be a teacher and please, when can they go back to school because, you know, I can't do this.
[00:17:00] So, and also I think everything, it's helpful when there's [00:17:05] a moment to galvanise the nation, isn't it? And, and it, and it is a medium moment, like as I keep saying, but this is about changing perception. So you need, you need markers for that, right? That's just the way life works now. So we have National Van Teach day, which is a, a grassroots sort of moment because everyone can get involved.
[00:17:24] The awards obviously, which I'll tell you a bit about as well, but they are obviously there's certain individuals that will end up winning an award [00:17:30] and being sort of maybe being on the tele, but thank teacher days. Everyone can get involved. But we have a sort of big campaign around it. So we have a, we have sort of celebrities that, you know, go on on their social channels, they'll go on tv, they'll talk about it being national thank teacher day.
[00:17:47] Um, it's when we announce the silver winners of the award. So we have thank teacher day celebrations taking place in [00:17:55] nurseries, schools and colleges when they'll find out that they've won an award. So that, so we have sort of two stages of the award, silver and then gold. But we really, you know, we really just want to get the nation talking about how brilliant teachers are.
[00:18:07] So we'll have celebrities on breakfast, radio all day. Everyone talking about drive time, you know, it's, it's that sort of thing every, and we'll have, you know, we've had sort of cat Deley on this morning being [00:18:20] surprised by her old teacher because this works, doesn't it? It it's then everyone's like going, oh, my teacher was, yeah, they had a real impact on me.
[00:18:29] You know, Mrs. So and so, and obviously everyone always talks about the Ian right moment. So it's that it's sort of creating an emotional response and giving the nation a reason to show their appreciation a day in which they can [00:18:45] show their appreciation. But I do think it's important to say it's all year round and it's not just tokenism, you know, it's like we want messages to be sent anytime of the day and obviously without even not through the platform, I'm teachers.
[00:18:57] Want, you know, just a, just a quiet word from the parents or the pupils saying, thank you so much for what you did, and just any kind of recognition helps. But national thank each day is, is that, yeah, we've [00:19:10] created a day where everyone can show their appreciation.
[00:19:13] Julie: Can you just remind me of what that date is?
[00:19:15] Mary?
[00:19:16] Mary: 16th of June. So it's on that day every year and, and last year we sent about a hundred, well, this year, sorry, about 175,000 cards on the day. Yeah. And we, we get a media reach of about 80 million. You know, it's a really important date. But the other thing is, [00:19:35] and I also don't know that that matters, but I don't really know if people know that we run it and we, it's the same organisation that run the National Teaching Awards and you know, does that matter?
[00:19:45] But. I don't necessarily want loads of commercial organisations selling merch on the back of it, but that's obviously what happens. But it is, you know, just, you heard it here first. It's a charity that runs National ZA Teacher today. But yeah, I mean it's um, [00:20:00] it's a really important campaign.
[00:20:01] Julie: Yeah, I think it's lovely and, and, and obviously I think it's great that it's a year round facility to be able to do that.
[00:20:07] And I think it's important that people know that. And, and certainly my experience of it as, you know, seeing it play out over the last few years, it does feel a celebratory day and there is that lovely kind of narrative coming through the media, but I've also seen schools kind of embrace it as well and schools [00:20:25] encourage parents and pupils to get involved as well.
[00:20:27] Mary: Yeah, that's really important to us as well because obviously we're trying to stimulate that sort of movement, but schools often do it with handwritten cards and they, you know, they find all different ways to kind of embrace the day, but it is an opportunity for them to say thank you to their staff. And it, I think it's a really important, we want to work really collaboratively with the sector to enable them [00:20:50] to use it as well because obviously that feels slightly strange to teachers to say, well, can everyone say thank you to me?
[00:20:56] Julie: Yeah.
[00:20:58] Mary: A leadership perspective within a trust, you know, we, we work really well with, with lots of local authorities and multi Academy trust to really say like, we've got resources, we have classroom resources, assemblies, like cards. You can download all the materials, things for children to colour in. 'cause it, [00:21:15] it just, we want it to be as engaging and as interactive as possible.
[00:21:18] Julie: Yeah, no, I think that's brilliant. I think I might have one occasion asked students to thank me mind and send me a postcard. Definitely. Your always better. Um, so moving on from thank teacher then, um, obviously you, you've kind of mentioned 'em already, the awards, the, the Oscars of teaching as it were, [00:21:40] so the Peas National Teaching Awards.
[00:21:42] Talk to me about that kind of national spotlight. So obviously this episode will just air, um, before the wonderful week on the one shore who are shining the light on the gold, um, award winners. But just can you tell us a little bit more about that and people who are tuning into the One shore, what they're going to see and what to expect and Yeah, just tell us all about it.
[00:22:03] Mary: Yeah, I mean they [00:22:05] are the Oscars of the education world, the, the OG Awards, um, as I said sort of earlier, they've been going since 1998, so Pearson of the headline sponsor, but we are a charity so that we're run by a not-for-profit organisation and they're free to enter. So yeah, kind of the awards are actually open.
[00:22:26] Now what we do is we open next year's awards [00:22:30] when, so when the one show coverage is on, so that, you know, 'cause you don't really want to like look at that and then sort of be inspired and then you're like, the awards aren't open yet. So we kind of have this. Relay of like the award when we're celebrating the 2026 winners, you can also then already enter the 2027 awards.
[00:22:47] So they're kind of open for a period of time till till sort of end of February, but it's like, it's like the old [00:22:55] tax return. You know, they all come in, we, we have it open for ages and we are like, enter, you know, like early bird enter early. 'cause we are just a small team trying to process it, but it's sort of, we get this flurry of entries near the deadline, but there is a nice long period to en to enter.
[00:23:11] We have 17 categories. We've just created a new category actually this year around sort of careers education and future skills because [00:23:20] again, it's, we really want to sort of raise awareness of the best practise that's taking place. And this is, you know, another sort of worry for, for young people and parents alike is how do we prepare young people for the world of work and what, so we really wanna sort of showcase and highlight the best practise that's going on.
[00:23:38] But, you know, our, our categories run from early years through to further [00:23:45] education and there's, there's a digital category, so there's all kinds of things. There's, there's 17 categories open to the whole of the uk and as I say, anyone can enter, we have an unsung hero category where you, that's the one that parents can enter and that is open to anyone who works in a, in a school.
[00:24:02] So again, it could be support staff, um, as well as as teachers and head teachers. But so we sort of have this [00:24:10] big call for entries. In this period from now and then, and then they're judged by a panel of, of sort of about 45 volunteer judges. And that's really important to us. They're not, it's not just a paper, you know, award system where if you write a really good entry, you'll you, you know, you might go through, they are visited again, pre COVID, it was all in person.
[00:24:32] Now it's sort of hybrid and obviously that [00:24:35] works in terms of scaling things up. And all of our judges are volunteers and quite a lot of them are teachers themselves, so it's hard for them to take time. But yeah, there's a really rigorous process in terms of shortlisting and deciding who are, who is going through.
[00:24:49] And then the silver winners are announced on Thank A Teacher Day. And we have about, about a hundred across the uk. We purposefully asked the schools and colleges [00:25:00] and nurseries to sort of have it in their setting so that they can celebrate with their whole community. And they go to town. They have like, I mean, I remember once one person, this is when the queen was alive, she was like, they wrote, they said, we've invited the queen, we've invited, you know, I don't think she ever went Paddington.
[00:25:19] Yeah, Paddington. But it's a real celebration and it's lovely. And it's in June. So [00:25:25] you often get like, you know, out in the school if they're lucky enough to have a sort of field, you know, they're, they're celebrating with the whole community. Big celebrations. And then the gold winners are announced in November.
[00:25:35] And as you said, we have a week long celebration of education on the one show. And then we have a big fancy glittering award ceremony where everyone, uh, all the silver widows are invited. They get an invite for themselves and a [00:25:50] guest and it's free, and they get a night in a hotel. And then they also get, you know, the opportunity to buy some additional tickets for colleagues and.
[00:25:58] It's just a lovely celebration where they get to dress up and feel celebrated and yeah, and then we begin again. That's why I've been here so long. It's sort of, you're just caught in a cycle so it's so hard to, to not keep doing it 'cause it's such a lovely thing to celebrate. But I [00:26:15] mean, what, what we really want is more schools and, and people to enter.
[00:26:19] You know, you might think, well it's not for me or you if you're a small school, you might sort of think, well I haven't got a marketing department to help me write the entry. But we provide lots of, you know, our, our amazing awards manager, Kate, she's so brilliant. And she'll get on a call and say, this is, you know, we've got guidance about what a good entry looks like.
[00:26:36] And, and you know, the other thing is, is that's why we have thank a [00:26:40] teacher because not everyone thinks awards are for them. So we've got both campaigns that really kind of run the gam gamut of, you know, ways in which you can show your appreciation and show that you value your staff.
[00:26:52] Julie: And I've watched some of the footage and, and looked at the photos and it looks fantastic.
[00:26:56] And I suppose just to your point there, and I'm pleased you did a bit of kind of mythbusting, if you like, around who this is open to it, [00:27:05] it does feel incredibly inclusive and, and I certainly would want schools to feel like that. I'm from a small town in the northeast of England and I'm just thinking of somebody listening in a small school thinking, well it's in London.
[00:27:18] Like, you know, the, I mean some of the guests that are p Stephen Fry, Joanna Lumley, Lenny Henry, you know, Helen Miran and you're looking at all of this glitterati and thinking, but that's not for me, that's [00:27:30] not saying thank you to people like I am more like in this school. But I think that what you do and around that and that myth busting and I'm glad to hear there's that support around that application process that anybody listening wherever they are should feel like that's open to them.
[00:27:46] 'cause it certainly feels like that from an outsider's perspective. Yeah.
[00:27:50] Mary: Yeah, exactly. And I think the other thing is we do a lot of work with [00:27:55] regional media, like local media because it's not just about that moment. And, and also I'll talk briefly about sort of our third campaign, which is some sort of regional events because it's not, you know, you have thank a teacher day and you have, you've won an award and you might be on the tv, but as I said earlier, it's, it's about a sort of a bigger shift that we want.
[00:28:15] It's not just sort of 15 minutes of fame. So the whole point of these campaigns is to [00:28:20] share best practise. And so it's really important that kind of local representation and local media covering it. We've had winners who, you know, the people will come up to them in the supermarket and they're like sort of local celebrities.
[00:28:34] They're just doing their shopping and they've like, I've seen you on the tv. So it, it is an enabler so that it can reach every part of the country. And also it's like, I think even the [00:28:45] process of writing down. What you've done is really important. That's really validating about, 'cause we have like whole team and whole school awards.
[00:28:53] So it's not just about picking an individual, it's also what have we achieved. And, and sort of putting that entry together is also a really important process. And everyone who enters gets a certificate of excellence. I mean there's, there's sort of criteria of you have to, you can't just write your name and send [00:29:10] it in and you'll get a certificate, but you know, if you do, so there's, there's all different stages.
[00:29:16] 'cause we are mindful that we don't wanna waste people's time and there will only be certain amount of award winners who go on. But it's, it's that process. We really want to encourage that process of saying, the work I do is worth celebrating and you can really go on to be sharing best practise on a local level and [00:29:35] hopefully a national level and even an international level.
[00:29:37] Julie: Do you know, and I love that and I love that, that it's got that kind of nuanced approach to it. 'cause actually thinking about how people feel about being recognised, you know, like it's the same when you're thinking about it on a cultural piece, isn't it? In a school where you're thinking, well how do we show value?
[00:29:52] Well, getting some people on the stage and giving them a big award and a big cheer and a big is the best thing ever. And they would love it. Whereas others [00:30:00] would prefer that quiet, oh, I've got little email and, and it was little Lee card and it's made me feel really good, but I'm not actually gonna tell anybody else.
[00:30:08] That's just kind of a private and personal thing. So really what you're doing there is kind of recognising that different people have different approaches to, to how they would want to be recognised in a way. So I'm really interested to hear about your third offer. Mary, tell us about what's [00:30:25] your, what's your third kind of regional?
[00:30:27] Mary: We launched some new events last year, education Insights, and that is the idea behind that is that we want to create this sort of ongoing relationship with, with past winners, but also sort of on a local level. Because like you say it, you know, London's fab, I'm, I've, you know, I love London, but just to sort of come to one event a year and then you've won an [00:30:50] award and then what happens to you.
[00:30:51] So it's about creating ongoing opportunities. So we, we've hosted five events in five regions that they're sort of themed, so on, on topics like resilience and creativity. And, and then we are convening kind of some of our award-winning teachers who are sharing that best practise. They're bringing colleagues from their, from schools that they know, you know, different schools within a, within their trust.[00:31:15]
[00:31:15] But we're also bringing sort of keynote speakers and panels. The idea is we do events really well. We bring a bit of glamour and we bring, and we have a great network of teachers. We had Flo, Benjamin Baroness, Flo Benjamin, I think talking about citizenship. But we also then on the panel had, you know, people with expertise and citizenship and chartered College of teaching and, and various sort of experts.
[00:31:38] And then we also had, [00:31:40] uh, award-winning teachers from our network talking about how they'd really, you know, encouraged and embraced that within their setting and just giving practical examples. And that was in Bristol, but that was just one example. So you'd sort of come away feeling really inspired.
[00:31:55] You'd heard some, you know, and we, we sort of have some canapes and a nice glass of wine. And so that's the idea behind kind of trying to [00:32:05] give some continuity to the campaigns. 'cause I think in terms of what we do, it's about celebrating, valuing, and then it's about sharing best practise. Because I think that's what we all need in every profession, isn't it?
[00:32:17] To be a bit inspired by practise and to have it, but, but peer to peer, like we are not, you know, the charity itself, teaching always trust isn't gonna tell everyone how to do good teaching, but we've got a great [00:32:30] network of teachers who, who might help. So that's, that's the idea behind it. So that's been a sort of recent series of events that we've created.
[00:32:39] So yeah.
[00:32:40] Julie: Brilliant. I mean, there's so much there that you're offering, um, as you say, in terms of that celebrating that valuing and that sharing good practise. And I imagine the impact on people who are touched by, you know, some of the work that you do. I [00:32:55] imagine that it is, you know, uh, phenomenal and, and certainly, you know, um, you've got some kind of people on your website, haven't you, who were sharing what it felt like to, to get those awards or to be recognised.
[00:33:06] And actually I'm speaking to one of them next week on the podcast, Ben Levinson. So I'm gonna ask him how he felt.
[00:33:14] Mary: Oh, well he'll tell you all about his gold suit. Ask him about his gold suit. I
[00:33:18] Julie: gotta ask him about his [00:33:20] gold suit. That's brilliant. So just when I was looking at your website, I thought, oh, well there's, there's a face that I know.
[00:33:25] Yeah, I think it's really interesting to kind of also look at the impact, isn't it on, on what that does to people and, and their esteem and their, you know, I just think, um, yeah, that's another interesting side of it all.
[00:33:39] Mary: Yeah, I think it's something that I'd love to do more of, like, you know, we're still a small team, but, and [00:33:45] we sort of get case studies and testimonials, but I think that piece around what recognition does, I mean, we know anecdotally that it can help with your sort of career development and, and all those different things.
[00:33:57] It, it builds confidence, doesn't it, which is kind of the, the magic ingredient to all of us. If we, if we feel that we got good morale and, and self-esteem, then it helps us to be better in our job. So that, but that's [00:34:10] sort of a harder thing to measure. So we've got the kind of, the amount of media coverage we get and the, the articles and the way that people feel after the awards.
[00:34:18] But yeah, I mean, I think it, it does have an incredible impact, but like I say, I think the bigger mission is like that, that whole shift inside societal perceptions, I keep coming back to that as well. So there's real individual impact because it's an amazing experience and we [00:34:35] really care so much that everyone who who works with us just feels, yeah.
[00:34:39] Has an amazing experience. But then also it's like, well, what is it doing to have it on the most watched, you know, the one show and the, the sort of viewing figures it gets across the week and national thank teacher day. It's like we are reminding people. Who aren't thinking about these things consciously that yeah, what's, what's going on in education.
[00:34:59] [00:35:00] Uh, so yeah, it hopefully it has an impact.
[00:35:02] Julie: I think it was Steven Fry on the video o on your website, he says something like, uh, what's needed is like a reappraisal of one of you highest callings. Um, I think that's how we, how he kind of phrases it. And, and that's that societal level, isn't it? That's that kind of, you know, how can we shift and, and reframe the perception in [00:35:25] society whilst at the same time have that positive impact on the individuals and the schools within the profession.
[00:35:31] Um, but I loved that and I loved that it was Stephen Fry who said it.
[00:35:34] Mary: Of course he put it far more articulately than I could. Yeah. But I mean, I had, we, we celebrated our 25th anniversary and with, and, and sort of Lord David Putnam came back and we, we had a lovely event at number 10 and he was just, you [00:35:50] know, considering as I say, he's sort of produced Chariots of Fire and all these amazing films and he was like, that's the proudest thing I've ever, that the thing I'm most proud of was creating the teaching awards.
[00:36:00] So it just is quite simple, isn't it? If we can really value the work that takes place in education, then I think we would all benefit. And I know that. Yeah. I don't wanna sound patronising 'cause I know we all value education, but Yeah. Well let's leave the [00:36:15] wording of it to Steven Fright.
[00:36:18] Julie: So eloquent. So you must have heard so many stories, Mary, and read so many stories and read so many entrants.
[00:36:26] And Mary's, this is a bit unfair to ask this question, but has there any that have stayed with you or been particularly kind of a great example of why the work that you do matters? Any that you'd be happy to [00:36:40] share? Or if that feels too much, maybe something from your own personal experience of somebody who's kind of had an impact on you?
[00:36:46] Mary: Oh, you can't, that's like asking me to pick my favourite child. I can't possibly, um. It's really difficult, isn't it? Because we don't also want to create unattainable examples of teaching practise and pastoral care. So it, and it's a bit like, you know, [00:37:05] 'cause we work a lot with the media who want the, sort of, the headline, of course we've got teachers who have like, you know, opened up their homes to pupils and gone out and bought clothes and, and, you know, for students in their care or, you know, guided them personally through university visits.
[00:37:23] It, it is sort of endless. But I, I know something that we always just really want to, to highlight is [00:37:30] just really caring, like quite thoughtful practise as well. So it doesn't, as you say, to sort of distil it down to like the top examples I can do, but I, I I suppose it's just really, it is such a range of things, but what we're seeing a lot, what we're seeing, a lot of examples in this year's awards for example, is teachers focusing on young people's wellbeing and mental health.
[00:37:53] I think that's a really [00:37:55] interesting theme. I mean, it's always been that way because that's sort of essentially teachers are the first point of care, aren't they, for young people. And you know, we did some research this year for national and teacher day with sort of parents and school children about their perception of the role of, of teachers.
[00:38:12] And it's like, they're a counsellor, they're a, a therapist and then you sort of feel like, is that creating unnecessary burden on teachers that oh my god, I'm not, you [00:38:20] know, so it's, I I do wanna be careful when sort of picking out examples of best practise because, and, and award winners, you know, for that reason.
[00:38:28] But yeah, I think we've got sort of examples this year of teachers who are doing a lot of outdoor learning, forest schools, things like that. So I, I love all of those kinds of examples. It's not about attainment, it's never about sort of they got their [00:38:45] grades from this to that and, and steads and everything.
[00:38:47] It's just about the impact that they have on young people. And I just remember, I mean, to be honest, every year I'm in bits. I'm like in floods of tears. I'm so in the wrong job for that. I'm such a softie. But I remember one school where he, they'd set up a forest school and he's, he's one of our judges now.
[00:39:07] He was head at that school at the time and they [00:39:10] just, these kids were like, I just didn't wanna go to school before and I went through five different schools and now I just can't wait. It's my favourite place to be. And that's just, that's just everything, isn't it? I think it's those human stories. And, and I do like, I will repeat that.
[00:39:25] I definitely don't want it to be sort of like some big list of everything you've done. 'cause that's, there's so much of that in life anyway isn't there, of just like, oh my [00:39:35] gosh, am I enough? So. It's really hard because you wanna exemplify, but you also don't want to sort of intimidate. But I think all teachers are doing amazing work in their own way.
[00:39:45] Julie: I think you're right. Have you ever sent a thank a teacher card then to a former teacher?
[00:39:50] Mary: So I, I've sent them to my children's teachers, but I always, I get, well, not, I always don't, but when I've done sort of interviews and stuff on thank a teacher day that they [00:40:00] always, you know, on the radio, they're always like, so who was the teacher that influenced you?
[00:40:03] And I always cite, um, Mr. Murray, who was no longer with us, but he, I was good at French, like I was good at languages. So he sort of said, why not do joint honours at university and, and do Italian? Because he just, he was like, he loved all classics and he was like, really loved Italian. And it wasn't, [00:40:25] it just, I mean, I didn't teach Italian at the time, so it wasn't a subject that I was familiar with.
[00:40:31] But it really sort of in many ways changed my life because I went on to study it and I, you know, I, I've just have a love of Italy and we've just had so many lovely holidays there and I just, yeah, it kind of really enriched my life. But it was a sort of, it was just a meeting where I'm like, what I dunno what to go and do.
[00:40:49] [00:40:50] And I mean, those were in my, the lovely days where you didn't have to pay for university, so you were a bit more like, what shall I go and study now? It's, you know, but it was a sort of sets you on a path that that can, I mean it's not like I, I'm doing a job that I use my tally and now, but it, it's enriched my life I suppose.
[00:41:10] And that's sort of, yeah,
[00:41:11] Julie: when you kind of think about that, he may or may not have ever [00:41:15] remembered that.
[00:41:16] Mary: No, exactly. Yeah. I don't know. I don't, I didn't ever send him a thank you card 'cause he'd retired, but yeah,
[00:41:24] Julie: that's kind of the invisible impact, isn't it, that teachers and staff in education, you know, support staff, office staff, like everybody is having that invisible impact that they don't even realise.
[00:41:38] Mary: Exactly. And that's [00:41:40] what's the pro creates the pride and the profession. It's just reminding people when I know, I think as I say, like as you know, everyone's always like, oh, you should get Adele, you should get Ian. Right? You know, okay, I'll just got them on speed, girl. But you know, those examples of, of really high profile moments, they speak to all of us because that's, you know, we all know that person, don't we?
[00:42:02] And then hopefully that speaks to the [00:42:05] profession and says, yes, we do make a difference as well. So it can be in the every day where they're in the classroom, you feel that you've made a connection and you've obviously through to the big celebrity moment when someone is, has achieved so much and they're like, I wouldn't be here if it weren't for my teacher.
[00:42:22] And I mean, I love, um, desert Island discs or you know, and I, they always thank teach there, there's always like, when they're talking through their [00:42:30] life, they'll often be a teacher, won't they? That's had that pivotal role in, in people who've gone on to achieve great things. So yeah, it's really important.
[00:42:40] Julie: It is Mary and you know, and it's wonderful to hear about all the work that you're doing and Will absolutely will share all of these links in the show notes and you've done a, an incredible job of, of kind of explaining, you know, what's available all year round and, and how [00:42:55] people can kind of enter. But I think most of all, that importance both on an individual and a school level, but also at a societal level.
[00:43:03] So I've got one more question for you, Mary. It's our final question actually, as you've just mentioned, desert Island discs. It kind of, uh, um, is a nice little segue after that because my final question for you, uh, Mary, is if your career journey had a theme song or a [00:43:20] tune, what would it be?
[00:43:22] Mary: Oh gosh, that's a tricky one.
[00:43:26] Uh, maybe I'm, I was just like, I dunno why 500 miles by the proclaimers came into my head,
[00:43:33] Julie: and that's a great stomping tune. So why not?
[00:43:38] Mary: I, I dunno why I'm panic, panic answered. But I think like, you know, this idea that, um, sort of [00:43:45] still going, still going, trying to,
[00:43:48] Julie: fighting the good fight,
[00:43:49] Mary: fighting the good cause.
[00:43:51] Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure I could, if you'd give me sort of longer I can think of, I'm like, I love my music, so I could come up with lots of different ideas. But
[00:43:59] Julie: I often think that the, uh, the one that kind of, the, the simplest response and the one that comes first is the usually the right one. That's wonderful, Mary.
[00:44:07] And, and as I say, I think it's [00:44:10] important, there really has to be a narrative around the challenges and the difficulties in the education system hasn't there. They have to be highlighted, they have to be flagged, but it can't be the only narrative and it can't be to the detriment of the profession and to the point where it's becoming an unhelpful narrative.
[00:44:28] So the work that you are doing to me kind of is the, the other side of it, isn't it? And it's that [00:44:35] other side of also recognising the value in the profession and making people feel valued. So I just think you're doing an incredible job. So thank you for everything that you do.
[00:44:44] Mary: Thank you for having me.
[00:44:45] Julie: It's been a joy and I really look forward to watching the One Show and probably crying all the way throughout the
[00:44:51] Mary: morning. I was gonna say, yeah, get the hanky. Get the hankies out and be prepared to cry. That's the aim.
[00:44:59] Julie: I love it. [00:45:00] Thank you so much, Mary.
[00:45:01] Mary: Thank you Julie. Lovely to chat to you.
[00:45:05] Julie: Thank you for listening to Edwin Talks.
[00:45:07] If you enjoyed this episode, please follow or subscribe to the podcast wherever you're listening. And if you'd like to find out more about the work, Edwin are doing the schools and trusts, then follow us on LinkedIn. If you want to discover more about any of the topics discussed in this episode, you can find all the resources and links in the show [00:45:25] notes.
