Shifting Mindsets for Educational Equity: A Deep Dive with All Means All

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Hi,
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this is Aurora from the Educating All Learners Alliance.
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And today we're speaking to Lindsay Cruz and Tony Castillo for a deep dive into all means,
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all all means all partners with school and system leaders across the country to increase equitable outcomes and opportunities for students with disabilities and other students with intersectional identities who have been historically marginalized as the CEO and co founder of all means all Lindsay Cruz comes to this work with the perspective of an educator who has over 20 years building and scaling support for school system leaders and as the proud parent of two Children with disabilities.
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Tony Castillo is a native Houstonian who has spent 14 plus years working in education at Yes prep public schools in Houston,
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Texas where he now serves as head of schools coaching.
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Six principals.
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Tony was a member of a MA s original first cohort and is now a coach in the program.
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Thanks for joining us,
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everybody.
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It's great to have you here.
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Thanks for having us.
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Yeah.
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Thank you.
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Let's dive in.
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Tell us who you are,
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what you do and why this work is important to you,
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Lindsay.
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Let's kick it off.
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Sure.
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There's one line that I always think of when people ask me this question,
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especially around this work.
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And it the regular kid,
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these are words that my daughter used when she described kids that didn't get pulled out of class for half the day like she did to get services for her disability.
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And at this time,
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I spent probably the first half of my career working for school leaders in charter and district schools focused on equity.
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That's what you know,
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in theory,
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my job,
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I was in the middle of helping build relays National Principal Academy Program when she uttered these words and she uttered these words while attending a blue ribbon school in a city that is known for good education in a state.
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That's one of the top in the nation.
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And it was still a system for both but not all.
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And I think navigating this with her with seemingly every privilege in the world really forced me to look at the work that I was doing and ask if I was truly working for equity for all kids.
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This led me um on a path the nationalist went for learning disability.
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That was ultimately one of the in operations for building a ma.
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But I think my daughter Maggie and my son Sam story isn't unique.
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Unfortunately,
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I think the data shows that it shows we consistently fail students with disabilities,
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but even more specifically and important,
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we're failing Black and brown students with disabilities on every single measure of life outcomes across college and career readiness,
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employment and independence and involvement with the justice system.
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And what I think is so infuriating and frustrating but also motivating about this is we have evidence that suggests that 90% of students with disabilities can be successful and are capable of graduating high school,
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fully prepared to tap up college and career with the right court.
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Um And I think the other reason why I do this work specifically with leaders is having spent most of my career with school leaders.
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I think we know that our school leaders are struggling too.
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There was something I read recently that um I think it was more than one in 10 principals left the profession between 2020 to 2022 and this number was higher in schools with students experience poverty or um serving more students with power,
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achieve what we found on and sort of the inspiration why I like the A MA work um specifically is because this work can seem really daunting,
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especially running out of COVID and we really wanted to create a space for hope and possibility again and to really be able to help leaders themselves then build cultures for their um for the adults in their building that were also full of optimism and momentum and love that.
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Tony.
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How about you?
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Yeah.
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Uh Yeah,
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again,
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Tony Castillo,
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um I currently serve as a head of schools here in Houston,
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Texas at Yes,
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prep public schools,
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which is a charter management organization that's been in existence since 1998.
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And as a head of schools,
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um this is year 15 for me with the organization and um I do the work for multiple reasons.
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Uh The most important one right now is uh something to the effect of what Lizzie shared.
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Uh We,
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especially here in Houston,
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we have just a diverse student body and just demographic overall.
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And um being a part of this city also being a person of color myself.
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I'm biracial,
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my mom's black,
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my dad was Mexican and I went to a school system here in Houston,
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North Forest Independent School District,
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which actually closed down about a decade ago just due to failing schools.
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And that district was taken over by Hisd Houston independent School District uh which is like the second largest school district in our country.
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And um it was,
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it was difficult to witness that transition from afar because uh all the the students and,
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and,
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and people who grew up around me in my neighborhood who went to that school district.
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Um you know,
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statistically uh I was an anomaly and that shouldn't be the case uh when it comes to public education in our country yet it is.
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And now working against public schools,
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our whole mission and vision is to fight against that uh fight against the social injustices and inequities that exist in our schools and partnering and being a part of a ma um three years ago as,
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as one of the,
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the first cohort and now as a coach,
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I have the ability to learn from that experience and how to let that trickle down to the people here in Houston.
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And I guess,
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prep to do the work that didn't exist when I was a student at school.
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And so,
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uh all those things just come,
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you know,
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make a,
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a holistic picture of why this work is near and dear to my heart and very,
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very important to me.
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Yeah,
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that idea that,
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you know,
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it shouldn't always be the exception to the rule,
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right?
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Or like why it's great when we hear a heartwarming story,
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but deeper down like why is that an anomaly so true?
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So,
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so tell us more about a ma and the impact that it has had on your work at Yes,
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prep because this is really interesting to talk to somebody who's been through the cohort and now what's the impact like?
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Yeah.
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No,
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I mean,
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shout out to Lindsey and the team.
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Um It's been a,
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it's been an amazing journey to learn and grow as a leader in education through working with a ma.
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Um There were some,
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there are like several skills that I've been able to really internalize and apply to.
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Yes,
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prep specifically.
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Um You know,
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as I mentioned,
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we,
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we serve over 18,000 students here in Houston.
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And um that is a large percentage of,
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of impact that we can have on future leaders.
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Like not only like in,
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you know,
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in the country as they go about,
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but really like bring them back to Houston to make an impact.
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Um And I have a passion for coaching and leading adults and one of the biggest things I learned from a ma that I've been able to apply here in my leadership.
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A yes,
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is really the importance of inoculating and getting adult culture and mindset,
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right?
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From the very beginning of when I'm hiring someone to walk the halls and be in front of students,
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I wanna be confident that the people that I entrust family students to are people that have a like mindset um that we,
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I believe we all should have,
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which is no matter your background,
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no matter your demographic,
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no matter your ability.
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Um If you have access just like your um just like your peers and more affluent or,
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or um you know,
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neighborhoods or areas where they do have those abilities that they can have success too.
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And I didn't have that,
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that singular approach to hiring or that singular focus to hiring before a ma.
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And now I,
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I really rest in,
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in confidence that when,
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when I'm interviewing someone or when someone's sitting across from me,
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um I know the questions to ask,
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I know the places to probe,
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I know the activities and the scenarios to engage in with people.
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Uh to be,
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again,
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it's not gonna be perfect,
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but I at least am assured and confident that I've done all my uh uh you know,
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with due diligence,
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done,
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all that I can do to increase the likelihood that that person is the right person for the job.
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Um And that's been a really big thing.
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And then,
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uh secondly,
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you know,
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the impact,
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you know,
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thinking about my time as principal.
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Yes,
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pre war,
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which is one of our 18 secondary schools is that um you know,
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to,
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to invest people in the idea that um focusing on students of uh of our sped department or,
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you know,
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students with disabilities is not a separate approach,
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but the approach,
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um you know,
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I,
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I recall 11 day during one of our in service sessions,
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which is the beginning of the school year,
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I made a proclamation to my staff that um you know,
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subpopulation uh is and subpopulation,
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education is education in general.
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And that was a,
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a strong statement to make um that we are not treating these things as separate.
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Um If we are,
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if we are truly teaching the general population,
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that literally means every student that walks the building.
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Um And you know,
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that was something that,
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you know,
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I would say was semi controversial to the staff because,
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you know,
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historically uh special Education Department and was viewed as again a separate entity within the school,
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uh something that you funnel resources in just to those people who are in that department.
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Um here in a ma taught me that,
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you know,
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to,
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to make that proclamation and that strong stance on it is everyone's job where every student's principal where every uh uh child's um um teacher to,
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to push them and to show them that they are capable of hitting that bar was,
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was paramount to seeing change at my campus.
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I think one of the best things about working with Tony in the program too is he was very just sort of laser focused on keeping eyes on the pride of outcomes that he was looking for,
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for kids.
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And um in Texas,
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there is sort of a multi tier rating system,
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but one of the uh one of the metrics of ratings is around what they call subpopulation,
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but demographic groups like students with disability and Multilingual learners.
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Um and so Tony,
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do you,
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um do you want to share if I remember the data correctly?
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Sort of what you were there?
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Yeah,
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I mean,
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uh you know,
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let me see.
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I was,
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yes,
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I was principal there for four years.
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I was a principal for eight years total,
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but at fifth war specifically four years in year one,
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prior to joining a ma in that,
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in that subcategory of evaluation and assessment for Texas,
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they grade us on a letter scale and we were ac when it came to the domain of our subpopulations and growing our,
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our students with disabilities et cetera.
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Um And um after joining a ma and going through that year,
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this was also during the pandemic too when we were,
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we were a hybrid school,
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but we were the only school.
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Yes,
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for 1/5 ward in our,
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in our 18 school district that did better during that pandemic year.
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Um when,
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um you know,
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overall,
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but most proudly,
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that domain of subpopulations,
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we went from AC uh to a high B which became the highest in our,
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in our system.
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Um And,
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you know,
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it was just,
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it was amazing accomplishment.
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Um And again,
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I credited to the learnings of a ma just investing the staff into having a like mindset for it,
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but it was certainly,
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it was certainly a big win for us and I was able to continue to apply that in,
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in the next two years at Fifth Ward so much so that,
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you know,
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our preliminary results from last year's um state assessment.
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Uh We are predicted to be Fifth Ward number one in our entire district for overall student achievement.
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That,
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that,
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yeah,
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Lindsay,
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that's new,
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that's new news for us.
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You know,
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Texas hasn't officially released it yet,
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but we got our projections and preliminary results and uh yes,
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prep Fifth Ward,
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um you know,
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had our highest,
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had the highest Texas rating in our in our you prep system.
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Um And so that's,
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that was just a really strong way to leave a mark at our campus before moving into this role.
254
00:12:40,169 --> 00:12:40,869
That's something that I'm,
255
00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:42,150
I'm really thankful for.
256
00:12:43,260 --> 00:12:44,340
We lay down on.
257
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This was a poor part of our model.
258
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I think Tony alluded to some of these variances.
259
00:12:49,090 --> 00:13:00,409
But what my co founder and I saw when we saw spells train to serve a broader range of needs better was really to think one was um they often invest as,
260
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as you all both said,
261
00:13:01,539 --> 00:13:04,450
only in the special education department.
262
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This is a special education investment.
263
00:13:07,609 --> 00:13:07,909
I mean,
264
00:13:07,919 --> 00:13:09,559
the challenge when we do that is one,
265
00:13:09,570 --> 00:13:12,039
it reinforces traditional staffing silos.
266
00:13:12,049 --> 00:13:14,359
So this perception that those are your kid,
267
00:13:14,900 --> 00:13:17,690
therefore not mine and it requires specialized training.
268
00:13:17,700 --> 00:13:19,080
So so therefore,
269
00:13:19,090 --> 00:13:19,549
you know what,
270
00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:20,750
what can I do?
271
00:13:21,109 --> 00:13:22,520
But I think even more importantly,
272
00:13:22,530 --> 00:13:24,080
there's incredible programs,
273
00:13:24,090 --> 00:13:31,580
peers and friends and colleagues of ours that are doing this work that are training special education leaders and providing special education tools.
274
00:13:31,830 --> 00:13:34,219
But when those leaders come back into systems,
275
00:13:34,229 --> 00:13:45,419
what we hear so often is that they are often in systems that are not aligned and fostering the very things they were just trained to do sometimes working at odds with what they were trained to do.
276
00:13:45,719 --> 00:13:47,669
So I think that was number one,
277
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why we decided to focus on the leaders and system leaders is because they can't set that culture for the entire building and create the conditions for everything else to thrive,
278
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they control the budget.
279
00:14:01,020 --> 00:14:02,090
As Tony mentioned,
280
00:14:02,099 --> 00:14:03,659
they're responsible for hiring,
281
00:14:03,669 --> 00:14:07,599
they're creating the colleagues within the school that are gonna do this work,
282
00:14:07,609 --> 00:14:09,489
they control the schedule.
283
00:14:09,500 --> 00:14:13,690
So they set the tone for collaboration and for how we serve in need.
284
00:14:14,140 --> 00:14:24,880
And so that's sort of the first piece is that we really want school leaders to feel empowered and able to and responsible for this work.
285
00:14:24,890 --> 00:14:37,200
And then I think the second thing that we experience as educators and as parents or kids with disabilities is that so often we see it as a uh only a technical problem that has a technical solution,
286
00:14:37,500 --> 00:14:37,859
right?
287
00:14:37,869 --> 00:14:41,080
So we'll hear things like we would love to serve those kids,
288
00:14:41,090 --> 00:14:45,020
but we just don't have the training or we would love to serve those kids.
289
00:14:45,030 --> 00:14:45,739
But we really,
290
00:14:45,750 --> 00:14:48,080
there's a special education shortage,
291
00:14:48,090 --> 00:14:51,679
both of those things incredibly true and incredibly hard.
292
00:14:52,289 --> 00:14:54,390
But I think what we've seen,
293
00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:55,119
even when schools say,
294
00:14:55,130 --> 00:14:59,080
can I just borrow your mtss system or can I see what you all do?
295
00:14:59,109 --> 00:15:01,659
What we often hear is folk saying,
296
00:15:01,669 --> 00:15:01,679
oh,
297
00:15:01,690 --> 00:15:03,219
we tried that and it didn't work.
298
00:15:03,229 --> 00:15:06,359
My staff pushed back or very real.
299
00:15:06,369 --> 00:15:07,799
I think in the pandemic,
300
00:15:07,809 --> 00:15:11,919
it's like I couldn't possibly add more things to my staff list.
301
00:15:12,369 --> 00:15:14,020
And so it really is it to,
302
00:15:14,340 --> 00:15:14,549
you know,
303
00:15:14,559 --> 00:15:18,229
Tony did this during the pandemic during hybrid learning.
304
00:15:18,239 --> 00:15:23,469
And I think so much of it is about how you actually make it.
305
00:15:23,479 --> 00:15:24,940
I I won't say last work,
306
00:15:24,950 --> 00:15:29,070
but different work because the whole school feels ownership of it.
307
00:15:29,380 --> 00:15:32,549
And you now feel like there isn't one person shouldering the that,
308
00:15:32,559 --> 00:15:36,309
that you as the leader don't have to feel like I know all the answers.
309
00:15:36,460 --> 00:15:42,190
But there is this part um that we help leaders build in the identity and like this is just what we do here.
310
00:15:42,849 --> 00:15:44,789
And of course we serve all kids.
311
00:15:44,799 --> 00:15:48,909
And I think that the sort of really subtle shift in language we like to use it.
312
00:15:48,919 --> 00:15:51,229
It's not like we deserve these kids,
313
00:15:51,700 --> 00:15:53,030
but we get to,
314
00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:53,929
right.
315
00:15:54,500 --> 00:15:55,500
Um And that,
316
00:15:55,510 --> 00:16:05,989
that what gets celebrated and rewarded is the teachers that are just tenacious about like I am going to get through to this kid and see the way I'm going to be the one to figure them out.
317
00:16:06,309 --> 00:16:10,630
And so I think that is just what we've seen is like evidence based practices,
318
00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:11,900
incredibly important,
319
00:16:11,909 --> 00:16:14,330
technical changes and practices,
320
00:16:14,340 --> 00:16:15,559
incredibly important.
321
00:16:15,989 --> 00:16:18,150
But if you have only those,
322
00:16:18,299 --> 00:16:24,520
you will almost always fail unless you have created the mindset and the culture for those to thrive.
323
00:16:24,780 --> 00:16:25,150
Yeah.
324
00:16:25,349 --> 00:16:25,450
You know,
325
00:16:25,460 --> 00:16:25,809
Tony,
326
00:16:25,820 --> 00:16:26,609
what would you add?
327
00:16:27,030 --> 00:16:27,239
Yeah.
328
00:16:27,250 --> 00:16:27,419
No,
329
00:16:27,429 --> 00:16:27,539
it's,
330
00:16:27,549 --> 00:16:36,150
it's something really powerful about like having an unwavering commitment to something and it compels people to follow you,
331
00:16:36,159 --> 00:16:36,479
you know,
332
00:16:36,489 --> 00:16:36,750
and,
333
00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:39,669
and it compels people to believe in what you're saying.
334
00:16:40,150 --> 00:16:40,710
And you know,
335
00:16:40,719 --> 00:16:45,530
thinking about the work as a coach now in a ma particularly with one of our principals in the cohort.
336
00:16:45,729 --> 00:16:46,299
Um you know,
337
00:16:46,309 --> 00:16:49,309
we were able to go visit her school and witness it in action.
338
00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:49,409
You know,
339
00:16:49,419 --> 00:16:49,869
she was,
340
00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:50,729
she was in a meeting,
341
00:16:50,739 --> 00:16:52,270
she was leading the meeting and there were,
342
00:16:52,390 --> 00:16:52,570
you know,
343
00:16:52,580 --> 00:16:54,820
people at the table like campus people,
344
00:16:54,830 --> 00:16:54,960
you know,
345
00:16:54,969 --> 00:16:55,710
central office,
346
00:16:55,719 --> 00:16:56,070
people,
347
00:16:56,080 --> 00:17:03,830
they were all there and to witness her um unapologetically take a stance on who we are as a school.
348
00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:05,520
Why we embody this mindset,
349
00:17:05,530 --> 00:17:06,560
who we're serving.
350
00:17:06,819 --> 00:17:07,079
I mean,
351
00:17:07,089 --> 00:17:09,359
why it's important to serve it?
352
00:17:09,369 --> 00:17:09,750
It's,
353
00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:09,989
you know,
354
00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:12,619
it's almost like you have no choice but to follow because you're,
355
00:17:12,630 --> 00:17:13,109
you're,
356
00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:13,589
you're,
357
00:17:13,599 --> 00:17:14,699
you're captivated by,
358
00:17:14,709 --> 00:17:15,000
wow,
359
00:17:15,010 --> 00:17:23,150
this person believes and is convicted so deeply about this that there must be like this must be right and this must be true.
360
00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:23,410
And I,
361
00:17:23,420 --> 00:17:25,439
I think um uh and I,
362
00:17:25,449 --> 00:17:26,069
I think,
363
00:17:26,079 --> 00:17:27,319
I believe that that's,
364
00:17:27,329 --> 00:17:30,760
that's where we have to be when it comes to serving our students.
365
00:17:30,770 --> 00:17:32,060
It has to be a conviction,
366
00:17:32,069 --> 00:17:32,300
you know,
367
00:17:32,310 --> 00:17:35,699
it can't be a thought or an idea or,
368
00:17:35,709 --> 00:17:35,969
you know,
369
00:17:35,979 --> 00:17:37,219
a theory like we need to,
370
00:17:37,229 --> 00:17:38,979
we need to convince and believe,
371
00:17:38,989 --> 00:17:45,579
be convinced of and believe that all of our students um deserve and earn the right to,
372
00:17:45,589 --> 00:17:46,180
to be,
373
00:17:46,189 --> 00:17:49,969
to have access to resources um in education.
374
00:17:49,979 --> 00:17:51,130
And um you know,
375
00:17:51,140 --> 00:17:51,369
it,
376
00:17:51,380 --> 00:17:51,569
it,
377
00:17:51,579 --> 00:17:53,410
it was transformative for,
378
00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:55,020
for her and her school and,
379
00:17:55,030 --> 00:17:55,829
and as I mentioned,
380
00:17:55,839 --> 00:18:04,209
it was transformed her for me at my time at Fifth War to rally people behind a singular cause and focus and it makes the work that is very,
381
00:18:04,219 --> 00:18:06,520
very difficult um and layered.
382
00:18:06,530 --> 00:18:18,280
It brings a sense of simplicity to it because we're all aim for the same goal and it makes it keeps you motivated and encouraged because you see what we're aiming for.
383
00:18:19,050 --> 00:18:20,300
And we also are trying to,
384
00:18:20,310 --> 00:18:20,500
you know,
385
00:18:20,510 --> 00:18:21,550
sell you on,
386
00:18:21,770 --> 00:18:24,550
this is gonna get accomplished in a month or a year.
387
00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:27,880
Like this is a long term game and that's what education is,
388
00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:31,449
that's what people and the students growing and maturing and evolving and learning.
389
00:18:31,459 --> 00:18:33,930
That is this is an ever process.
390
00:18:33,939 --> 00:18:37,869
Um And so um rooting us in those foundational beliefs,
391
00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:38,040
you know,
392
00:18:38,050 --> 00:18:42,390
cause cause that transformation to be uh to be quick.
393
00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:43,069
Um But,
394
00:18:43,079 --> 00:18:46,609
but also cause it to be long lasting in terms of uh impact.
395
00:18:47,420 --> 00:18:49,839
I think so often when we say rhyme said,
396
00:18:49,849 --> 00:18:50,319
what,
397
00:18:50,329 --> 00:18:56,599
what I think people feel this implication of like my staff doesn't believe in all kids.
398
00:18:56,609 --> 00:18:59,410
And I think that's so often not the case.
399
00:18:59,630 --> 00:19:00,010
I mean,
400
00:19:00,020 --> 00:19:00,219
there are,
401
00:19:00,229 --> 00:19:00,640
there are,
402
00:19:00,650 --> 00:19:06,280
there are definitely sort of misconceptions and misunderstandings of what our kids are capable.
403
00:19:07,020 --> 00:19:07,390
However,
404
00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:09,849
I don't think anybody gets into this work thinking like,
405
00:19:09,859 --> 00:19:11,469
oh I only care about some right?
406
00:19:11,819 --> 00:19:18,579
And I think where the mindset comes in is less about because I think that kind of thinking also causes people to say like,
407
00:19:18,589 --> 00:19:24,349
oh we don't need that help here like we've got them that we just really truly do need the skill.
408
00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:28,709
And I think one of our leaders said this so beautifully the other day on the phone,
409
00:19:28,719 --> 00:19:35,199
which is like she was describing her perspective um uh participant in a ma and she was saying,
410
00:19:35,569 --> 00:19:35,750
yeah,
411
00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:38,849
it was less about that fear or that,
412
00:19:38,859 --> 00:19:40,290
that mindset of all kids,
413
00:19:40,300 --> 00:19:41,390
but more about the fear,
414
00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:41,630
like,
415
00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:42,910
can I do it?
416
00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:45,939
And this fear of failing a kid?
417
00:19:45,949 --> 00:19:46,959
And so often,
418
00:19:46,969 --> 00:19:59,459
sometimes it's our strongest teachers that we see have the most resistance because it's really hard to feel like you might fail a kid or you might not be enough or you might not be able to.
419
00:19:59,469 --> 00:20:00,180
And so there,
420
00:20:00,189 --> 00:20:00,859
there's just,
421
00:20:01,209 --> 00:20:02,930
I think when we talk about mindset,
422
00:20:02,939 --> 00:20:03,979
it's less about like,
423
00:20:03,989 --> 00:20:05,479
do you love all kids,
424
00:20:05,489 --> 00:20:06,709
do you believe in all kids?
425
00:20:07,010 --> 00:20:07,589
Of course,
426
00:20:07,670 --> 00:20:10,569
about like this mindset of like,
427
00:20:10,579 --> 00:20:12,650
can I be the one to do this?
428
00:20:12,660 --> 00:20:15,349
Can we be the people to do this?
429
00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:20,150
Um And can we embark on it even while we don't know what the solution is like?
430
00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:24,270
Are we willing to sort of put ourselves out there to figure that out?
431
00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:29,609
And I think that that's something that's really sort of exciting and powerful to see when that shifts.
432
00:20:30,599 --> 00:20:35,060
That's such a good point is that sometimes when you're doing transformative work,
433
00:20:35,069 --> 00:20:39,420
there can be almost a little bit of resistance or almost a little bit of defensiveness or,
434
00:20:39,439 --> 00:20:40,130
you know,
435
00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:40,170
Oh,
436
00:20:40,189 --> 00:20:41,040
we're fine.
437
00:20:41,050 --> 00:20:41,540
We're good.
438
00:20:41,550 --> 00:20:41,760
We don't,
439
00:20:41,770 --> 00:20:43,160
we don't need that and,
440
00:20:43,170 --> 00:20:43,260
you know,
441
00:20:43,270 --> 00:20:44,819
people don't always want to talk about it.
442
00:20:44,829 --> 00:20:44,989
I mean,
443
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:45,949
especially,
444
00:20:45,959 --> 00:20:46,410
you know,
445
00:20:46,430 --> 00:20:48,900
thinking about something that you've both been,
446
00:20:48,910 --> 00:20:49,050
you know,
447
00:20:49,060 --> 00:20:50,420
we've been talking about already but,
448
00:20:50,430 --> 00:20:50,560
you know,
449
00:20:50,569 --> 00:20:54,140
the intersection of rigor race and ability and,
450
00:20:54,150 --> 00:20:55,060
and the different,
451
00:20:55,310 --> 00:20:55,459
you know,
452
00:20:55,469 --> 00:20:58,660
identities that Children have and how that impacts their,
453
00:20:58,670 --> 00:20:59,420
their education.
454
00:20:59,430 --> 00:20:59,589
You know,
455
00:20:59,599 --> 00:21:02,060
how does that come into play here?
456
00:21:03,469 --> 00:21:03,890
Yeah,
457
00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:05,500
this is,
458
00:21:05,510 --> 00:21:10,880
this is sort of deep at the heart of the stuff we think about and care about.
459
00:21:10,890 --> 00:21:11,800
And I think,
460
00:21:11,810 --> 00:21:12,180
yeah,
461
00:21:12,660 --> 00:21:24,369
too often what we see is the inequities and systems disadvantage our students with the intersexual identities the most where you've got multiple identities um that have been marginalized in school.
462
00:21:24,770 --> 00:21:31,349
Um We part of it and actually Tony um was one of the leaders who helped us sort of go about this partnership and,
463
00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:32,140
and test it.
464
00:21:32,150 --> 00:21:35,589
But we work with an organization called the Groundwater Institute.
465
00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:38,109
Really to look at our work with the Rage.
466
00:21:38,199 --> 00:21:44,410
What do you um lens and what groundwater sort of uh says is sort of like,
467
00:21:44,420 --> 00:21:45,670
like see this through a lot,
468
00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:45,880
right?
469
00:21:45,890 --> 00:21:48,760
If you see one fish belly up in a lake,
470
00:21:49,020 --> 00:21:49,319
you're like,
471
00:21:49,329 --> 00:21:49,349
oh,
472
00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:50,670
something's wrong with a fish.
473
00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:53,780
If you see multiple fish belly up in the lake,
474
00:21:53,790 --> 00:21:54,219
you're like,
475
00:21:54,229 --> 00:21:54,420
hm,
476
00:21:54,430 --> 00:21:55,900
something might be around through the lake.
477
00:21:55,910 --> 00:21:57,479
And then if you see multiple lake,
478
00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:07,209
the fish all but then you realize that you have a brain water um problem and their research and their works are pulled from everything that's out there.
479
00:22:07,219 --> 00:22:11,939
Sort of said three things like raises it through line to everything.
480
00:22:12,109 --> 00:22:14,959
Racial inequity looks the same across systems.
481
00:22:14,969 --> 00:22:16,280
If you look at health systems,
482
00:22:16,290 --> 00:22:17,930
if you look at financial health system,
483
00:22:17,979 --> 00:22:19,819
housing education.
484
00:22:20,339 --> 00:22:30,170
And so economic status does not explain this um based on their research and that it is truly a systems issue.
485
00:22:30,180 --> 00:22:32,119
And I think we see this in schools,
486
00:22:32,130 --> 00:22:33,819
we see this in the academic data.
487
00:22:33,829 --> 00:22:47,260
We have a um something in one of our tools that like in the 2022 N data where you can see all student on the Nate and then you see students with disabilities well below all students.
488
00:22:47,270 --> 00:22:51,290
And then you see black students with disabilities even further below.
489
00:22:51,530 --> 00:22:54,750
And it is the through line through everything.
490
00:22:54,760 --> 00:23:02,160
And I think what we see so often is that a lot of that in the inherent mindset that by it,
491
00:23:02,170 --> 00:23:10,829
especially when you introduce disability into the equation can just unconsciously lower the standard or expectation for our kid,
492
00:23:11,530 --> 00:23:13,469
especially those that need more support.
493
00:23:13,479 --> 00:23:16,540
We like to call that sort of loving our kid into failure.
494
00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:18,339
It comes from a good place,
495
00:23:18,349 --> 00:23:18,540
right?
496
00:23:18,550 --> 00:23:20,229
I don't want to push them too hard,
497
00:23:20,239 --> 00:23:23,099
this might be really hard for them.
498
00:23:23,109 --> 00:23:25,000
And so what we see and I think that,
499
00:23:25,010 --> 00:23:25,250
you know,
500
00:23:25,260 --> 00:23:28,229
this was really manifested in TNT P opportunity,
501
00:23:28,439 --> 00:23:34,839
but we see it in classrooms all the time is this desire to include kids in the classroom.
502
00:23:35,180 --> 00:23:42,760
But what happened is so often teachers immediately collapse the rigor to the level of scaffolds for kids.
503
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:50,810
And so this is something that we work really deeply on with leaders is this intersection of what we sort of say like rigor anti racism and anti,
504
00:23:51,650 --> 00:23:52,099
right?
505
00:23:52,449 --> 00:23:54,599
How do we start to help?
506
00:23:54,609 --> 00:23:58,550
We see that a it can perform at the level of the standards.
507
00:23:58,989 --> 00:24:04,949
And I think what happens often is teachers and schools get the the sort of strategies in peace,
508
00:24:05,099 --> 00:24:05,650
right?
509
00:24:05,660 --> 00:24:17,369
You've got high quality instructional cry over here and then you're told to differentiate and then we also hear about accommodations and IEPs and then there's this UDL thing and so it can be really hard.
510
00:24:17,619 --> 00:24:19,130
This all sounds amazing.
511
00:24:19,140 --> 00:24:19,449
But like,
512
00:24:19,459 --> 00:24:22,170
what does that look like when I sit down to plan my?
513
00:24:22,949 --> 00:24:32,560
And that's some of the work that we do with leaders and it's sort of this power of narratives of showing like what does this look like all together so that it again for that,
514
00:24:32,569 --> 00:24:40,959
it can feel possible for schools possible for school leaders to wrap their arms around us so that they can help teachers wrap their arm around that.
515
00:24:40,969 --> 00:24:41,859
But I think we just,
516
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:42,979
you know,
517
00:24:42,989 --> 00:24:44,859
we have years of data and,
518
00:24:44,869 --> 00:24:47,880
and work from folks of just how that hasn't happened.
519
00:24:47,890 --> 00:24:55,339
And it comes from a seemingly good place or maybe just why it not as informed because it feels really scary to be like,
520
00:24:55,349 --> 00:25:09,810
I think you can do this and try it and to understand sort of the difference between how you help give kids that versus just let's just lower the expectations so that they can be successful.
521
00:25:10,180 --> 00:25:13,479
That's it when I use air quotes for except,
522
00:25:13,599 --> 00:25:13,619
yeah.
523
00:25:13,630 --> 00:25:14,099
Yeah,
524
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:16,770
Tony,
525
00:25:16,780 --> 00:25:17,089
what would you,
526
00:25:17,099 --> 00:25:17,880
what would you say,
527
00:25:17,890 --> 00:25:19,900
you figure how you can experience that?
528
00:25:20,630 --> 00:25:21,060
Yeah,
529
00:25:21,069 --> 00:25:21,439
I mean,
530
00:25:21,449 --> 00:25:21,939
you know,
531
00:25:21,949 --> 00:25:23,000
similarly,
532
00:25:23,010 --> 00:25:24,479
um there's a,
533
00:25:24,489 --> 00:25:24,790
you know,
534
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:27,250
looking in classrooms first and foremost,
535
00:25:27,260 --> 00:25:31,260
we have to usually present people and teachers with the actual data.
536
00:25:31,270 --> 00:25:31,420
You know,
537
00:25:31,430 --> 00:25:38,459
we have to break it down and let them see what's the reality in terms of disparity uh potentially when we,
538
00:25:38,469 --> 00:25:40,979
when we break down our students by demographic,
539
00:25:41,229 --> 00:25:41,420
you know,
540
00:25:41,430 --> 00:25:47,780
actually we're literally doing work on that right now when it comes to our um A P programming at our schools.
541
00:25:47,790 --> 00:25:48,180
And,
542
00:25:48,630 --> 00:25:48,810
you know,
543
00:25:48,819 --> 00:25:49,189
we,
544
00:25:49,199 --> 00:25:49,410
we,
545
00:25:49,420 --> 00:25:53,910
we just did a deep dive into how our students are scoring on A P exams.
546
00:25:53,920 --> 00:26:00,300
And we uh sadly see that there's a larger differential when it comes to our black students and our students spa.
547
00:26:00,339 --> 00:26:01,530
And so now,
548
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:02,000
you know,
549
00:26:02,010 --> 00:26:02,489
we can,
550
00:26:02,500 --> 00:26:03,819
we can no longer just,
551
00:26:03,829 --> 00:26:04,010
you know,
552
00:26:04,020 --> 00:26:05,680
take that at face value and say,
553
00:26:05,689 --> 00:26:06,040
OK,
554
00:26:06,050 --> 00:26:06,329
you know,
555
00:26:06,339 --> 00:26:06,760
it,
556
00:26:06,770 --> 00:26:07,500
it is what it is,
557
00:26:07,510 --> 00:26:10,930
we need to look and say what specifically is happening that's causing this,
558
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:15,319
this gap between how our general population is performing or,
559
00:26:15,380 --> 00:26:15,829
or you know,
560
00:26:15,839 --> 00:26:18,959
J is performing and then um or,
561
00:26:18,969 --> 00:26:20,520
and seeing like why,
562
00:26:20,530 --> 00:26:23,079
what literally what is going on that,
563
00:26:23,099 --> 00:26:28,910
that why would our black students uh be scoring lower or why would our students spare score lower?
564
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:30,270
We have to dig into it.
565
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:31,479
Look at the questions like,
566
00:26:31,489 --> 00:26:36,010
look at what we're teaching and how we're lesson planning is the material culturally relevant,
567
00:26:36,020 --> 00:26:36,849
like are,
568
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:43,060
are the interventions and accommodations and modifications like for our students um accurate at meeting their needs.
569
00:26:43,069 --> 00:26:45,319
And that takes extensive planning.
570
00:26:45,329 --> 00:26:49,140
And so that goes back to the adult mindset in order to close this gap,
571
00:26:49,150 --> 00:26:56,229
that work is gonna be a little harder and it's gonna take a little more time and we have to be committed to giving that time and give that effort to do.
572
00:26:56,239 --> 00:26:56,920
And so,
573
00:26:57,439 --> 00:26:57,680
you know,
574
00:26:57,689 --> 00:26:58,369
quite frankly,
575
00:26:58,380 --> 00:27:04,209
the work with leaders is to figure out how to frame it and how to present it in a way that meets teachers where they are,
576
00:27:04,219 --> 00:27:06,709
but also doesn't lower that bar.
577
00:27:06,719 --> 00:27:07,640
Uh You know,
578
00:27:07,650 --> 00:27:09,199
you still have to do the extra work.
579
00:27:09,209 --> 00:27:12,239
Um If you're just working and operating in this tier one of,
580
00:27:12,609 --> 00:27:17,040
I'll do the planning that's necessary to reach our vast majority of students,
581
00:27:17,849 --> 00:27:19,550
you gotta continue to get this gap.
582
00:27:19,780 --> 00:27:21,550
Um But when you dig a little deeper,
583
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:21,699
say,
584
00:27:21,709 --> 00:27:22,010
OK,
585
00:27:22,020 --> 00:27:24,790
you master tier one preparation for a lesson.
586
00:27:25,030 --> 00:27:25,270
OK,
587
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:26,119
what's tier two?
588
00:27:26,130 --> 00:27:26,939
What's tier three?
589
00:27:26,949 --> 00:27:28,310
How do you break this down?
590
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:28,709
You know,
591
00:27:28,719 --> 00:27:34,010
what do you do when every student is working and how do you go to the students that you've targeted as students that,
592
00:27:34,380 --> 00:27:38,339
that need that extra support or that you need to pay a closer attention to.
593
00:27:38,609 --> 00:27:39,280
Um And it's,
594
00:27:39,290 --> 00:27:39,550
it's,
595
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:40,219
that is,
596
00:27:40,229 --> 00:27:49,729
that's long standing work that we've been trying to crack for years now of just how to make differentiation inside of a classroom.
597
00:27:50,170 --> 00:27:51,449
Um you know,
598
00:27:51,979 --> 00:27:56,119
done with more um with high quality and with fidelity and we,
599
00:27:56,130 --> 00:27:58,369
we have hockey is where that's working.
600
00:27:58,380 --> 00:27:59,890
And so we're seeking to replicate that,
601
00:28:00,750 --> 00:28:01,000
you know,
602
00:28:01,010 --> 00:28:02,329
I guess the question is,
603
00:28:02,339 --> 00:28:02,550
you know,
604
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:03,449
why this,
605
00:28:03,459 --> 00:28:04,579
why now,
606
00:28:04,589 --> 00:28:04,739
you know,
607
00:28:04,750 --> 00:28:10,189
why is this so urgent when there's seemingly so much else going on,
608
00:28:10,199 --> 00:28:10,890
quote unquote,
609
00:28:11,859 --> 00:28:17,650
we're going to try and pull air quotes into every restaurant that we can today to do.
610
00:28:17,660 --> 00:28:17,839
You,
611
00:28:17,849 --> 00:28:20,959
do you want to get a crack first or?
612
00:28:24,270 --> 00:28:24,660
And that,
613
00:28:24,670 --> 00:28:25,229
that is the,
614
00:28:25,239 --> 00:28:26,430
that's the common,
615
00:28:26,439 --> 00:28:27,819
that's the common gripe.
616
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:29,699
Um And with,
617
00:28:29,709 --> 00:28:30,099
with,
618
00:28:30,750 --> 00:28:30,920
you know,
619
00:28:30,930 --> 00:28:32,250
in education in general,
620
00:28:32,260 --> 00:28:32,770
you know,
621
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:33,949
you know,
622
00:28:33,959 --> 00:28:35,310
leaders are susceptible to that,
623
00:28:35,319 --> 00:28:36,510
that mindset and that,
624
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:38,300
and that push too because,
625
00:28:38,310 --> 00:28:39,219
um it's,
626
00:28:39,229 --> 00:28:39,650
it's,
627
00:28:39,660 --> 00:28:42,369
it's innate and it's kind of like human nature to,
628
00:28:42,829 --> 00:28:46,219
to feel the pressure and understand what we're shooting for.
629
00:28:46,229 --> 00:28:49,819
And then maybe think of reasons why we can't,
630
00:28:49,829 --> 00:28:51,459
to protect ourselves from failure.
631
00:28:51,469 --> 00:28:51,859
And,
632
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:52,900
you know,
633
00:28:52,910 --> 00:28:57,979
we have to name it directly and I think that's the first step is that there's a,
634
00:28:58,599 --> 00:29:06,310
there's a human side to being in the work where we really need to have an equitable approach of our staff and say what's possible.
635
00:29:06,319 --> 00:29:07,979
But we also have to be very,
636
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:12,339
we have to have enough humility to say that everything is not a priority.
637
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:17,369
And I think that's the biggest goal right now to kind of address this.
638
00:29:17,380 --> 00:29:18,819
We have so much on our plates.
639
00:29:19,150 --> 00:29:21,099
We as leaders need to take a step back and say,
640
00:29:21,109 --> 00:29:23,000
is everything on this person's plate,
641
00:29:23,130 --> 00:29:24,599
should it be on their plate?
642
00:29:24,839 --> 00:29:26,619
Um Is everything a problem,
643
00:29:26,630 --> 00:29:28,079
is everything a priority?
644
00:29:28,089 --> 00:29:28,430
And you know,
645
00:29:28,439 --> 00:29:30,209
because if everything is then nothing is.
646
00:29:30,219 --> 00:29:33,530
And so we as leaders first need to set the ground and say,
647
00:29:33,849 --> 00:29:36,420
here are the things that we're focusing on and everything else.
648
00:29:36,430 --> 00:29:38,310
We simply need to de prioritize.
649
00:29:38,479 --> 00:29:41,130
Um That's number one and number two,
650
00:29:41,140 --> 00:29:42,160
we have to map it out.
651
00:29:42,170 --> 00:29:45,650
We have to have a scope and sequence maybe this school year this semester,
652
00:29:45,939 --> 00:29:46,869
like yes,
653
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:48,550
we might have 20 priorities,
654
00:29:48,989 --> 00:29:50,310
but maybe for this semester,
655
00:29:50,319 --> 00:29:52,069
we're only focused on four of those.
656
00:29:52,189 --> 00:29:53,439
And then the next semester,
657
00:29:53,449 --> 00:29:53,709
we'll,
658
00:29:53,719 --> 00:29:57,770
we'll tackle the other two and then after the next year we'll tap with the other three.
659
00:29:58,339 --> 00:29:58,869
you know,
660
00:29:59,140 --> 00:30:00,910
there just has to be a very,
661
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:08,540
you have to have wisdom and how to take something that is seemingly insurmountable and break it down into bite size channel.
662
00:30:08,550 --> 00:30:09,910
So you can chip away at it.
663
00:30:10,119 --> 00:30:10,589
Um,
664
00:30:10,599 --> 00:30:10,839
you know,
665
00:30:10,849 --> 00:30:11,849
Lindsay's familiar with this,
666
00:30:11,859 --> 00:30:13,109
but we use that analogy.
667
00:30:13,119 --> 00:30:13,469
Uh,
668
00:30:14,150 --> 00:30:14,589
you know,
669
00:30:14,599 --> 00:30:15,270
like if you,
670
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:18,410
if one person threw a rock in the pond and you have like,
671
00:30:18,420 --> 00:30:18,550
you,
672
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:19,920
you get that one little ripple,
673
00:30:19,930 --> 00:30:22,489
but if everyone throws it and does that little bit,
674
00:30:22,500 --> 00:30:23,150
you get this,
675
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:23,550
you know,
676
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:25,069
they get this huge splash.
677
00:30:25,079 --> 00:30:25,390
And,
678
00:30:25,819 --> 00:30:26,250
um,
679
00:30:26,260 --> 00:30:26,520
you know,
680
00:30:26,530 --> 00:30:26,819
the,
681
00:30:26,829 --> 00:30:31,750
the approach now is helping people see that we only are asking you to do your part.
682
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:33,479
And if we collectively do our part,
683
00:30:33,489 --> 00:30:34,880
then we'll see those chips,
684
00:30:35,130 --> 00:30:35,359
you know,
685
00:30:35,369 --> 00:30:36,540
start to happen in that,
686
00:30:36,550 --> 00:30:36,939
in that,
687
00:30:36,959 --> 00:30:37,910
in that boulder.
688
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:39,010
And um is,
689
00:30:39,369 --> 00:30:39,819
you know,
690
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:40,310
to,
691
00:30:40,319 --> 00:30:43,280
to summarize like you don't address that,
692
00:30:43,449 --> 00:30:48,239
that mindset through something logistical or a document or,
693
00:30:48,540 --> 00:30:49,079
you know,
694
00:30:49,089 --> 00:30:49,869
um you know,
695
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:50,540
a meeting,
696
00:30:50,550 --> 00:30:50,989
it is a,
697
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:56,640
it is a slow grind to chip away and shape mindsets and narratives around the work.
698
00:30:56,959 --> 00:30:58,780
Um And that is a long term gain.
699
00:30:58,790 --> 00:30:59,780
That's not a short,
700
00:30:59,790 --> 00:31:00,199
that's like,
701
00:31:00,209 --> 00:31:01,239
that's not short term.
702
00:31:01,930 --> 00:31:03,880
So often when I've heard from leaders,
703
00:31:03,890 --> 00:31:10,069
it's like we just got to get a break for the 80% 1st and then we'll work out the 20% right?
704
00:31:10,079 --> 00:31:11,400
We saw it during COVID,
705
00:31:11,410 --> 00:31:11,739
we,
706
00:31:11,750 --> 00:31:13,280
we see it all the time.
707
00:31:14,010 --> 00:31:14,969
And so like,
708
00:31:14,979 --> 00:31:16,150
but if we flip that it,
709
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:16,829
like first of all,
710
00:31:16,839 --> 00:31:16,900
we're,
711
00:31:16,910 --> 00:31:21,630
then we're never going to get to the 20% because there is always stuff to do.
712
00:31:22,060 --> 00:31:22,089
Well,
713
00:31:22,099 --> 00:31:24,119
then I have almost always been.
714
00:31:24,500 --> 00:31:26,449
It not like go to the 20%.
715
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:28,229
But actually,
716
00:31:28,239 --> 00:31:28,270
I,
717
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:32,699
I would say a couple of things if we shifted and built with the 20% mind,
718
00:31:32,709 --> 00:31:34,739
we would see a transformative.
719
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:36,040
In fact,
720
00:31:36,050 --> 00:31:36,369
for all.
721
00:31:36,380 --> 00:31:36,819
And in fact,
722
00:31:36,829 --> 00:31:52,280
we do with our leaders in a ma and I think the second thing is this engine of both sort of how you create the adult culture that everyone's on the same team rowing in the same boat and doing that.
723
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:52,900
It's,
724
00:31:52,910 --> 00:31:54,780
it's also so much less insular,
725
00:31:54,790 --> 00:32:05,280
it's so much less isolating that you feel like you've got a team who has your back and that it is not just on the special educator to close this gap.
726
00:32:05,290 --> 00:32:11,020
It is not just on the Genna t do look at these results every year or below that they don't know what else to do,
727
00:32:11,310 --> 00:32:11,859
but it is,
728
00:32:11,869 --> 00:32:12,329
in fact,
729
00:32:12,339 --> 00:32:17,650
a whole team process that everybody can play a part kind of wrapping us up.
730
00:32:17,660 --> 00:32:20,810
Um How can folks get more involved or stay informed?
731
00:32:20,819 --> 00:32:22,969
How can folks out there join the movement?
732
00:32:23,729 --> 00:32:24,339
Yeah.
733
00:32:24,479 --> 00:32:24,780
Well,
734
00:32:24,790 --> 00:32:29,280
there's a number of incredible wings if they're listening to this and they're already part of E A,
735
00:32:29,329 --> 00:32:31,170
um which is really exciting,
736
00:32:31,180 --> 00:32:33,910
but in terms of A ma multiple ways.
737
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:37,619
So we're a Ma leaders.org and there's information on the website,
738
00:32:37,959 --> 00:32:43,280
you can follow us on linkedin for lots of information about the program.
739
00:32:43,290 --> 00:32:46,329
Um And certainly would love to hear from anybody,
740
00:32:46,339 --> 00:32:50,780
feel free to contact me Lindsay at a Ma leaders.org,
741
00:32:51,199 --> 00:32:52,540
stay curious and,
742
00:32:52,550 --> 00:32:52,859
and,
743
00:32:52,869 --> 00:32:53,140
and,
744
00:32:53,150 --> 00:32:53,459
you know,
745
00:32:53,469 --> 00:32:54,859
ask those questions and,
746
00:32:55,189 --> 00:32:56,939
and reach out to the right people and just,
747
00:32:56,949 --> 00:32:57,099
you know,
748
00:32:57,109 --> 00:32:59,020
do start by simply,
749
00:32:59,030 --> 00:32:59,140
you know,
750
00:32:59,150 --> 00:33:03,489
go again visiting a Ma leaders.org and reading through everything and seeing,
751
00:33:03,500 --> 00:33:03,750
you know,
752
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:08,020
and getting a more intimate understanding and knowledge of uh uh you know,
753
00:33:08,030 --> 00:33:08,619
what our,
754
00:33:08,630 --> 00:33:10,900
what our mission is and what our vision is and how we,
755
00:33:10,910 --> 00:33:12,099
how we desire,
756
00:33:12,109 --> 00:33:12,459
you know,
757
00:33:12,469 --> 00:33:15,859
us to operate as leaders and people in education.
758
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:17,339
Um And again,
759
00:33:17,349 --> 00:33:17,699
just,
760
00:33:17,709 --> 00:33:18,939
just ask questions and,
761
00:33:18,949 --> 00:33:20,140
and seek to understand.
762
00:33:21,329 --> 00:33:21,949
I love that.
763
00:33:21,959 --> 00:33:22,939
Stay curious.
764
00:33:24,319 --> 00:33:24,750
Well,
765
00:33:24,780 --> 00:33:25,869
that's it for today.
766
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:28,770
Thank you so much to Lindsey Cruz and Tony Castillo.
767
00:33:28,780 --> 00:33:29,719
It was great to have you here.
768
00:33:29,729 --> 00:33:30,709
Thanks so much for joining.
769
00:33:30,979 --> 00:33:31,550
Thank you.
770
00:33:32,150 --> 00:33:32,420
Thanks,
771
00:33:32,439 --> 00:33:32,579
Laura.
772
00:33:33,569 --> 00:33:35,369
That's it for us folks to learn more.
773
00:33:35,380 --> 00:33:38,630
Check out their website at A Ma leaders.org.
774
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:42,630
I'm Aurora from Ela and this was a deep dive with all means all.