speaker-0: Ride, teach, inspire. This is the Dropping Next Podcast brought to you by the Canadian Association of Snowboard Instructors. Hey everybody, welcome back to the Dropping Next Podcast. I'm your host, Rob Whalen, and I'm joined here today in our digital studio by two women from Indigenous Women Outdoors. And I'll just give a brief intro to them and then we'll get talking about what this organization is all about. ⁓ in no order of ⁓ significance, ⁓ we have Ayana Anderson McKizac, who is The executive director with Indigenous Women Outdoors. She's a backcountry skier in the Sea to Sky area and has been working with their organization since I think 2022, starting out ⁓ as a secretary on the board of directors, has done some leadership in backcountry safety programming, and now in her latest appointment as the executive director. ⁓ We also have Sandy Ward, which is exciting. ⁓ Sandy is a Cassie alumni, ⁓ is a level three park one, spent some time as an evaluator with the association. So definitely speaks our language. ⁓ she is one of Indigenous Women Outdoors founding members. She spent a lot of time in the backcountry ⁓ with programming with the organization, ⁓ as well as in the mountain bike scene. ⁓ she's created some short films that feature indigenous ⁓ athletes, youth athletes, ⁓ as well as all sorts of notable accomplishments in our industry. So really an honor to have you on the show as well, Sandy. ⁓ we've been trying to nail this episode down for a while, so I'm super stoked that we can jump into it here. So to both of you, welcome to the Dropping Next podcast.
speaker-1: Thanks for the nice intro.
speaker-0: I see that you're a skier, Ayana, so you ⁓ might be the first skier on our snowboard podcast. Really? ⁓ so let's jump into it. for the people who are not familiar with Indigenous women outdoors, maybe you could give us a little background about the organization and what it's all about.
speaker-1: Yeah.
speaker-2: Yeah, I can take that on ⁓ as ⁓ one of the founding members. I think that makes sense. ⁓ it the program came around or the organization came about because a friend of mine, Maya Anton, she had noticed that there weren't very many indigenous people or indigenous women in the outdoor industry and she was hoping to to change that. So she put up a Facebook post. looking for other indigenous women that were trying to get into the backcountry and s ⁓ splitboarding or ski touring. And of course I was tagged in that being the snowboarder from my nation. And ⁓ I met up with Maya and we hit it off over a beer and squamish and decided to create programming that would help not just get indigenous women into these high cost, high barrier sports, but also to try to ⁓ get women into training to become guides and to become instructors and ⁓ actually work within the industry so we could change the way that the industry would perceive Indigenous people in the ⁓ the outdoors. And so we started out with the backcountry program. And we immediately realized that's a really high barrier sport to get into. It's not just the cost of the equipment, but it's the knowledge to get there. And so we realized that We needed to take a little bit of a step back and look at ⁓ creating socials ⁓ so to get more experience on snow. And I think that's where the partnership with Cassie kinda came in and ⁓ and again, looking for those opportunities to get more indigenous women ⁓ working in the outdoors.
speaker-0: Yeah, that's really cool. ⁓ I didn't even really think about that. The I mean, there's like a a safety ⁓ thing in the backcountry as well. Like do you are you a backcountry guide or do you bring guides along with you when you're out there?
speaker-2: I'm in training right now. ⁓ in going into maybe my fifth year. Injury unfortunately has taken a toll and extended my my journey a little bit, but ⁓ I do work as a tail guide ⁓ for a couple of different backcountry outfits ⁓ throughout BC. And with the IWO I do kinda take on a bit more of a leadership role when we're going places. I I'm allowed to to teach ASTs, Avalanche Skills Training Level One. ⁓ so that allows me to get into simple terrain and kind of share my knowledge with the women in that those areas.
speaker-0: Mm, very cool. Not a lot of split board guides out there, period. Let alone women or indigenous women. So that's a really cool ⁓ thing that you're you're chasing there.
speaker-1: I was just gonna add, I think it's really special. The first backcountry programming that IWO ran in November of twenty twenty. I was lucky enough to be a participant in that programming. And at that time we were hiring guides to do the avalanche safety training. We had guides taking us out on our out days and Sandy's just, you know, learned so much over the years and accomplished so many things, been certified. gone into such leadership roles within the outdoor industry that now we've kind of closed that circle. And she's teaching the AST ones and she's taking the split orders and the the skiers out. And I think that's something really special to note and definitely highlights what Sandy was mentioning about our mission, which is to get more indigenous folks in leadership roles and working in the outdoor industry.
speaker-0: Do you end up with like the same like a similar ⁓ group every time? Is it always new women? ⁓ like I know you mentioned that you do a lot of socials as well. ⁓ you know, probably inside and outside of the backcountry. How does that all look?
speaker-2: Yeah, we've ⁓ we open up applications and it's a new set of participants for the intro programming every year. ⁓ we have extended and and done or ⁓ we've expanded and we run like a more of a advanced backcountry. And so that's all the alumni members that can come back and further their education and knowledge in whatever field it is that they wanna do. Like we've done it in mountain biking as well, where ⁓ we have our our members come back for we had a race team one year. So it's been pretty cool to like see IWO progress from like all intro programming into more advanced and ⁓ getting people more certified to to work outside.
speaker-0: Well, that's really cool. And that kind of makes sense, right? The the older your gen your organization becomes, the the more alumna you're gonna have and the the greater ⁓ range of ability you're gonna have and I I guess the greater range of programming you're gonna have to have available, right? In the fullness of time. That's pretty cool. ⁓ we we really dug into the organization ⁓ quite quickly there. I I wanted to give you each a chance to ⁓ give the listeners a little bit more info on. ⁓ kinda who you are outside of the intro that I gave, ⁓ and a little bit of your like background in the snow industry in particular.
speaker-1: I'm I'm happy to go first. I feel like I have the least interesting ⁓ story since it's not snowboarding, it's it's skiing. But I mean, I love getting on the mountain and and being out with everyone all the same. And yeah, my personal background is that my family is Cree on my mom's side from Whitefish Lake Nation in Alberta. ⁓ and then Scottish on my dad's side. And I was born in Edmonton but moved to Vancouver. In two thousand and two. And so we started getting on the snow quite a bit more then. and I started skiing a lot and really loved skiing. Got interested in the in the backcountry, and then that's when I joined the ⁓ backcountry cohort with IWO. And I guess a few years before that I actually did my CSIA level one, which is the Cassie equivalent ⁓ for skiing. So I did do a little bit of instructing and really understood how the programming sets you up to be a professional in the outdoor industry and gives you like so many different kinds of leadership skills and also improves your own skills on on the snow. So I've had yeah some exposure to the outdoor industry for sure when it comes to skiing and ⁓ it was really amazing to work with Cassie this year and help some folks ⁓ get into some programming. ⁓ and get some certifications done. yeah, that's kind of my background. I think Sandy's gonna have a much more thorough and and really exciting background when it comes to snowboarding.
speaker-0: Well, we're happy to have a skier on the show. Let's let's be honest here. We are sharing the same slopes on the same mountains and experiencing the same joy.
speaker-2: Yeah, I've been on snow my entire life. My my parents made sure of that. My mom was in love with snowmobiling and so I actually came from a snowmobile family. I didn't actually step onto my first snowboard until I was fifteen. And that was kinda because all my friends were snowboarders. I you know, I grew up in Pemberton. A lot of my friends were from Whistler. I worked in Whistler Village and one day I was just like, you know what, I'm gonna get a job. I'm going to buy a snowboard and I'm gonna try this thing out. And I did. Loved it. Broke my wrist the first day. but that didn't stop me. in a clue as to what my future would hold. But ⁓ no, I kept going. I ended up on the First Nation snowboard team in its first year, 2005. And then from there I got an invite to the BC Freestyle team to compete in half pipe. And so I did that for
speaker-0: Sorry.
speaker-2: ⁓ a number of years, which was amazing and it kind of transformed my life into what it is now. I gained a lot of experience in training, ⁓ nutrition, and just like mental like health and stability at a performance level. And so it made me a stronger person to ⁓ to move through life within the industry as the only indigenous person that I knew doing this thing. And ⁓ I started teaching when I was nineteen at Whistler Blackhome. I just celebrated my twentieth year with them. And yeah. I've actually done about twenty five seasons of teaching. So I I've taught in Japan, I've taught in New Zealand and Australia, and ⁓ yeah, just snowboarding kinda took me around the world and introduced me to like the most rad people I've
speaker-0: Congrats.
speaker-2: Could ever imagine meeting. And yeah, I wanted to share that with the the youth. I came from a youth program, the First Nations snowboard team. And so I've now started or I've taken over the Lietwa Kwechola, which means Lietwa sliding in our language. So I've been running the snow program for the kids for two seasons now. And it's really cool to see that some of them got certified Cassie level one this year and are really excited to start their jobs at snow school next year. So I'm pretty stoked to to be able to see that growth within the ⁓ the next generation. And yeah, that's kind of where I'm at today is just supporting the kids that want to get out on snow.
speaker-0: Well, that's amazing. ⁓ well, thanks so much for your contribution to the industry and all of those different facets, but especially, you know, ⁓ Cassie, we're passionate about ⁓ bringing up youth and, you know, getting younger people certified and working in the industry and, you know, just falling in love with snowboarding beyond sport, you know, that's I found this beautiful thing where ⁓ you find your community within a sport and and it becomes more ⁓ you know, it almost defines us in a way. ⁓ another thing at Cassie that well, I guess in life in general, but we ask the question why a lot. With indigenous women outdoors, what's the big why?
speaker-2: This. I was just in an open gym like kind of mental training session with Arcteryx. And they were talking a lot about we know what we do, but why do we do it? And that's the passion. And so I believe, yeah, IWO, we run programming to get Indigenous women outdoors, but why? And that's probably the most important thing. And like growing up as the only snowboarder. within my nation. Well, it wasn't the only one, but I was just known for it because there was nobody else as passionate about it as I was. Like I wanted to find that community. And I think that's why IWO is running is to find that community that not all of us have. And and that can mean, yeah, a community in the outdoors, but it can also mean a community of indigenous women. So we're learning about our indigeneity on the land. And I think that is a huge reason of why IWO is IWO. But Ayana, your participant, now executive director.
speaker-1: So yeah, speaking from my personal experience as a participant, community really is at the core of the why. And I found out the why through participating. And I think growing up in the ski industry, I was surrounded by a lot of people, but not very many Indigenous people. ⁓ going out to the programming with IWO for the first time, ⁓ was the first time I was on snow with other indigenous folks. And I didn't realize that my culture and what I grew up knowing with my family could be could exist in the outdoor industry as well. They felt like kind of two separate, separate worlds. And then coming together with IWO, I realized no, those those worlds actually fit very well together. And it's important for Indigenous folks to find community in the outdoor industry. to get that invitation to feel welcome. to be allowed to step into these leadership positions and work with the greater outdoor industry. But I think it really starts with forming that community ⁓ and making folks feel really, really safe on the snow culturally ⁓ with each other. And then that just allows folks to blossom in the programming. ⁓ so yeah, community is definitely at the heart of the organization and and our why.
speaker-0: Yeah, that's amazing. I had the opportunity to sit on our ⁓ what we call our diversity advisory group with Cassie. And one of the like core things that we are strive for in this group is ⁓ we're we're working towards this statement is which is ⁓ that you can't be what you can't see. so the idea of, you know, creating visibility, you know, so that everybody can f you know, feel seen. And so I think you both spoke to that. really nicely there. So the connection between IWO and Cassie, I guess, kind of came to be in a in a number of different ways, but I I thought just for our listeners, it might be worth me talking a little bit about our first tracks fund, which came to be last season. We call it the First Tracks Fund, which is essentially a legacy fund that was put together in order to support organizations or individuals that align with ⁓ our core mission and vision. And there's some different areas of focus within the First Tracks Fund. So instructor training, obviously, certification grants and bursaries, environmental and climate education, supporting other initiatives aligned with the with our mission. And another area of focus, ⁓ which is I think wh why we ended up here is ⁓ indigenous leadership and participation initiatives. It's written right into ⁓ the fund. ⁓ which obviously aligns like a hundred percent with what you're doing at Indigenous Women Outdoors. So when I came to learn about your organization, I was like, we gotta get these folks on board because they they're they're doing what we're talking about. ⁓ so it so it all worked out, which is really great. ⁓ and so we were able to support some members of your community on a Cassie Level One course last year to certify some instructors within your community. ⁓ Which we we love. ⁓ you know, that that makes us feel really good to be able to be, you know, a small drop in the bucket. but I I'll kinda hand it over to you to to speak to kind of our connection between our two organizations from your perspective.
speaker-2: Ayana, I think you did a lot of the the work in crew coordinating that, so thank you.
speaker-1: Yeah, I think when you and I spoke, Rob, about the first tracks program ⁓ or legacy fund, ⁓ it totally made sense. You know, the the purpose of of having that program and our mission definitely align and getting interest was was not ⁓ a hard thing to do. A lot of people want to improve their skills but also become employable and we want to create opportunities for employment but also leadership for Indigenous folks. And I think that this was just a a perfect marriage of like two really great ⁓ missions coming together. The folks that went through the programming is definitely like a I think a big step for the group going through such like professional programming. but they learned so much and I think them being in a group together really made a difference. Like I said, or what we've been talking about creating community and and getting Indigenous folks together is kind of like the first step to creating safety for people to all to allow themselves to try new things. And I think ⁓ having a number we had five folks go out for their level one, having them be in one group together with the Catsy instructor ⁓ was the right right the right call and and I think it allowed everyone to push themselves and and really do a good job in in the program and ⁓ I know people were celebrating at the end. They're really happy that ⁓ they had they were able to do that together. ⁓ I think it it was impactful that we got to get some meek folks out together as a group.
speaker-0: Yeah, that's that's really cool. There's a certain amount of comfort, right, in in being surrounded by your people ⁓ when you're trying something hard. Yeah, so that's cool that they had that opportunity to do that together. ⁓ speaking of community, what are some of the commitments that IWO has made to building community?
speaker-1: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think some of the commitments are, you know, respecting each other's cultures. we have indigenous folks coming from a lot of different communities, but we do have some shared outlooks on on life and ⁓ how we respect the environment around us. So I think that we're we're committed to bringing a community together that's ⁓ culturally safe but also respectful of the environment that we're in. and we want to advocate for them to be leaders in their communities, outside of sport and within sport. and we're committed to just uplifting our participants as much as possible in whatever ways they need, ⁓ be that leadership, be that career wise, be that just to get out and have community and and have fun together. so I think that that those are our core commitments as an organization.
speaker-0: Having fun together i is such a great way to build community, right? What have you witnessed ⁓ in terms of growth ⁓ within the community ⁓ through the efforts that ⁓ that you've done to to build that community?
speaker-1: I was looking at our participant ⁓ numbers for each year and I think our first year, Sandy mentioned we just had the one program for the backcountry. ⁓ and then year after year we grew s slowly and then I would say in the last two years we've grown significantly. So we're looking at like numbers of participants. We went from like twenty five to fifty to sixty to seventy, and then all of a sudden we have a hundred and fifty participants coming through in a year. ⁓ and then two hundred participants coming through in a year. So I think that the impact of folks coming out is that they invite their friends too. They're like, Hey, I found this space that's really safe and cool and I was able to look to get a lot out of it and put a lot it back into it. ⁓ and part of putting back into it is ⁓ them inviting their friends and getting more folks to come to come along. And so I think that ⁓ it's really clear that there's a demand or really low barrier access to sport from indigenous communities. and we're still figuring out how to how to balance that, but we wanna include as many folks as we can in programs like what we have set up with Cassie is is one of the ways that we can do that. And
speaker-0: Like, you know, I think a lot of your efforts are ⁓ around providing access to sport. I mean, we're particularly interested in snowboarding, but I know you do all sorts of other sports as well. What does that access mean to you at IWL?
speaker-1: Yeah, I think I think access means gear, definitely gear, safe instruction so that we can go back out there and be safe together. access also means having the invitation to just show up is show up as who you are and to be welcome and to be challenged. ⁓ that's what I think about when I think about access. Sandy, do you have anything that you want to add?
speaker-2: Yeah, I think that sums it up very very eloquently actually like the ⁓ the invitation is a huge, huge thing. this is something that's like kind of been brought up recently is a lot of ⁓ local nations they didn't feel that the invitation until recently and that's been really cool to see that all of a sudden grow within the Litwat nation. ⁓ having exactly the one person that comes out and then they share with their friends and then all of a sudden we have a whole new community. So IWO is not done growing yet. We we have so many more women that are interested but just haven't heard of us yet or don't really understand the space. And so ⁓ as an organization I think it's important and what we've been working on is making sure that ⁓ everybody has the invitation.
speaker-0: Yeah, that's amazing. So creating that access through invitation is just kinda kinda sounds like there's like this exponential effect that comes out of it, right? One person tells another person and then those two people tell two people. You got this whole crew ⁓ who didn't know they could be out there doing this together. So that's that's pretty amazing. And that speaks to that visibility thing as well, right? The more people you have out there ripping, the the more you're gonna get.
speaker-1: All a sudden.
speaker-0: just the way it works. That's pretty rad. ⁓ it sort of bleeds really naturally into the next question here about generosity. so can you speak to the importance of generosity within your ⁓ either community or the organization? I guess it's probably pretty interwoven.
speaker-2: Think what creates our community is the people that attend. ⁓ we we try to make sure that everybody feels welcome and everybody understands that they're gonna be giving back in a in a way that they feel comfortable too as well. And and that is within indigenous cultures itself, reciprocity is really important. So we're giving, but we're also receiving and these our participants are receiving the opportunity to to access these high cost sports and what they're giving us is the opportunity to create community and create these safe spaces, which is really cool. I it's different from any program that I've been a part of before. Like I just feel more confident and more safe in the spaces that IWO creates.
speaker-1: Yeah. ⁓ I think I'll add from, you know, my my roles perspective, I also think of generosity from a partnership perspective and and what that looks like. I think that there's reciprocity happening in in many different ways. I think the participants coming out and sharing ⁓ their culture and their stories with the broader, you know, outdoor community is is an act of reciprocity. But I think that ⁓ the partners who come to us and provide us with more opportunities to get folks out onto the land is another act of reciprocity. And what we can give back is healthy conversations about why it's important for that you know, hand to be extended. And yeah, I think I think reciprocity and generosity kind of go hand in hand when we're talking about how that shows up with indigenous women outdoors and with our participants but also how our partners.
speaker-0: Beautiful. I love that. ⁓ really well put. So we I prepared the questions in a couple of different blocks of questions, ⁓ as we talked about earlier. ⁓ but what I didn't tell you is that we like to do this thing called the palate cleanser, kind of halfway through the episode just to break it up, ⁓ especially when we're talking on heavier topics. ⁓ so it in not related whatsoever, just for fun. I got three kind of quick questions for each of you to answer. number one, sketchiest mountain experience.
speaker-2: actually it was up at Duffy ⁓ before I knew anything about, you know well, I'd done the Avalanche skills level one, but that's about it. And I was just very much relying on the other people in my my party. And we started out late, which was a red flag. ⁓ in the spring especially and we were the first time this was the first time touring with this one person. So we didn't know their fitness level. Another red flag going into what we know of as a pretty challenging or complex terrain ⁓ for the first time with this touring partner. And so these things kind of came together and we ended up in a slide path in midday on a south face with a ton of overhead hazard, trying to move as fast as we could. to get across it and we we managed, we got across, but within five minutes there was a slide in the path. And ⁓ we were like, okay, let's get out of here. But the safest way out was to keep going up to the lake, across and then down into a more ⁓ well, simpler terrain. And so yeah, I think that was probably the my biggest close call in the backcountry.
speaker-0: Oof. Well, we can learn from from that moment. Hey Okay, thanks for sharing. What what about you, Ayana?
speaker-1: I'm pretty risk averse, I would say, in general. So I'm I'm definitely pretty careful about the train I go into and it's usually pretty simple in the backcountry. But we did have a day as a group with IWO with a guide, ⁓ where the weather was just like so gnarly, so rotten, like icicles were forming off of our guides like ears and beard and we couldn't see anything and I think we were all really struggling on the uphill ⁓ and we got to I suppose the summit, but we couldn't see that that's where we were. And I think we were all pretty scared and and freaked out. But we're all very new and fresh to this environment. The guide was totally fine, but we're like, no, we're gonna be stuck up here forever. We're we're never getting down. Like this is it. Like say your goodbyes, finish your snacks, like this is this is it. ⁓ and the sun broke and we were totally fine. So that's probably the sketchiest I felt on the skin track, just being new and you know trusting the guide but then looking at my par my fellow participants and you know not agreeing that we were safe. But in the end we were totally safe. But that's probably the sketchiest it's gotten for me. Okay, so it's very risk averse. I'm not gonna try anything ⁓ too intense without the right conditions. So
speaker-0: Well, there's nothing wrong with being risk averse, let's be honest. ⁓ cool. Second question. ⁓ and a little less heavy perhaps. ⁓ favorite place to go and ⁓ when you need to take a breath?
speaker-2: Now my new patio and our tiny house that we just moved to. I love waking up in the morning and sitting out there and listening to the birds and the wind in the trees and the rumble of the the waterfall that's kind of far off and just the views. I I just love being in my home territory on the land that I grew up on.
speaker-0: Hell yeah. Good answer.
speaker-1: I love that. Yeah, I was thinking like we have some summer spots and winter spots. ⁓ I've grown up in Vancouver, so I think there's a spot off Lighthouse Park. ⁓ you can kind of create your own path to some of those rocks. And I think just sitting there and looking at House Sound and and Bowen Island and watching the sunset is really where I like to kind of disconnect and and take myself.
speaker-0: Disconnect. That's probably the word I should have used. Nice one. ⁓ okay, last one. ⁓ best inclement weather to watch from your living room window.
speaker-2: Any kind of storm that's hitting the mountain. Like it's so cool to see how the clouds form and how they react to to the mountains and how like it's it's just so cool to see like you can tell that it's pouring rain up there or dumping snow, but in the valley it it's not there. Sometimes it's like that and it's so cool. And of course thunderstorms are
speaker-1: Yeah, thunderstorms are always up there.
speaker-0: Yeah.
speaker-1: yeah, I think it's when I see that it's snowing on the local mountains in Vancouver. I have a really nice rooftop I can go up to and if it's raining, sometimes I just go up to see like is is it also raining on the mountains? And if it looks like it's raining there, hopefully it's snowing there. And then I go on the apps and like go on the webcams and see if there's actually snow happen there. But that's my little city view.
speaker-0: Nice. ⁓ this past season it was just it was just rain up there, right?
speaker-1: It's a lot of rain. Yeah. Yeah. It's a little bit disappointing. But, you know, we're still looking, still hoping. We had some snow days and that that ⁓ checked the box for me.
speaker-0: Yeah. Nice. Well, cruising into the backside of our episode here, I guess we'll start off with how you appear online. I noticed a lot of kind of color and like really fun graphics ⁓ within your branding and ⁓ it would be kind of cool to to hear you speak on that a little bit.
speaker-1: Yeah, I think so Maya took on kind of like the brand identity and website work when she was still in the role of executive director. And I think we can all say she did an excellent job, but she worked with a really great ⁓ developer who you know, really let us try to tell our story with like the icons we use, the colors we use. And I think our story is that connection to land and so lots of like colors that you would find in nature. ⁓ greens and reds and browns and blues and we took a lot of inspiration from from our logo as well. our logo is on the shared territory of the Squamish and Leewat and it's this beautiful I think it's it kind of mimics Panorama Ridge. we have a a woman or figure in the center with a big heart and there's there's blue water and ⁓ I think we really took inspiration from that. ⁓ and then Tavy, she's our ⁓ social media coordinator. She has really transformed how we show up online on social media and been collaborative with other folks on the IWO team, but making sure that we're showing our participants out on the land and have like giving that perspective of what it's like to actually come out with us on the land. So lots of photos of people running, walking, talking, slowing down, and then keeping with Just like those bright colors and like I think it really mirrors the fun that we have when we're out together and Tavy has come out as a participant and I think the more that she comes out and hangs out with the group, the better our identity becomes online. ⁓ that's kind of the background on on why we look the way we do online.
speaker-0: Yeah, like it really works so well. Like whenever one of your posts come up, it's just unquestionably yours. You know, like there's like silhouette of a tree or some element of the outdoors, like really, really simplified, but in a way that's like really tasteful and I you know, knowing about your organization like does such a good job at at explaining what you're all about, ⁓ in a really simple way. So yeah, it's pretty
speaker-1: I appreciate that.
speaker-0: So you spoke to your team there a little bit. ⁓ you have a reasonable size team or a big team. I don't know. I guess it's all perspective. but I'd be interested to know how you built out that team and you know how you've come across these great people that define your organization.
speaker-1: Yeah, I mean Sandy can probably speak to more of, you know, the beginnings, but ⁓ they started out as such a small team. It was just you and Maya and ⁓ how did you end up recruiting the first couple of folks? Yeah.
speaker-2: Yeah, And ⁓ it grew into Maya, Melissa, Michelle and I and Matt Voost randomly. ⁓ so we had this one guy, but it just like remembered the first IWO outing that we had. We went all the way to Kamloops to go to this indigenous youth mountain bike festival. I guess that's where Matt came in. And ⁓ the festival ended up being cancelled. But we wanted to go anyways and it was Maya's birthday. And that was kind of, I guess, the moment where we were like, Whoa, this is really cool. We've actually got a bit of a team. And it's not just Maya and I anymore. There were four of us. And it was really just such a fun, fun trip and kind of like eye opening that we are we're actually an organization now. It's not just two friends like going at this and creating random programming. We're we actually have the support of a bit of a team. And then Yeah, it's just it's grown so much since those days.
speaker-1: Yeah, I feel like Melissa, Maya, Sandy, Michelle kind of laid the foundation for what our team is like today. So we've kind of built out a team where we have some program leads. we have our board of directors, and the board of directors really help guide me and Sandy and the other program leads ⁓ to keep growing in a sustainable way. ⁓ to keep offering programming that's culturally relevant and that makes sense for our participants. so yeah, we we have a growing team. We still feel small 'cause it's all mostly volunteer based. but we have a great solid team that really has a really clear idea of the direction we want to go in. And I think that's lent to the growth we've seen in the past couple of years. So Yeah, but I loved hearing that, Sandy, the early days and it really did set the foundation for for what we have going on today.
speaker-0: Having a strong volunteer base just speaks to the passion that exists right within your workplace or whatever you want to call it. We a similar structure at Cassie. ⁓ so it's kind of as you were speaking about your team, I was feeling like a lot of parallels of of how things come together. ⁓ and it got me to thinking about, you know, collaboration and I often we're sharing ideas as a team and I'll say something and people say, ⁓ let's do it this way instead of that way. ⁓ that's great. ⁓ and this is why we're a team. We can't just be one person making decisions. And you know, when you come together to make decisions is where the strength in your group comes together, right? So can you speak a little bit to collaboration and how what that means to your organization and how you do things.
speaker-1: Yes. Sandy, did you want it? I wasn't sure if you wanted to take it or not.
speaker-2: No, I think ⁓ in recent years, like you've definitely organized most of the collabs that we have with brands. ⁓ yeah, in the early years I was definitely very much a huge part of of reaching out to brands and gaining support and creating those partnerships. And ⁓ yeah, and I think a lot of the the collaborations that we've done in the past are still very much alive and well. ⁓ and that I think that speaks to the organization's ability to to give back just as much as we are receiving.
speaker-1: Yeah, I I agree. I think that like we s spoke about earlier, making sure that, you know, if if there's ⁓ a collaboration extended to us and we're benefiting from it in some way, that we provide some benefit back to whoever we're collaborating with. ⁓ I think we also do want to make sure that we're mission aligned with whoever we're collaborating with. ⁓ and being intentional about that, we gain some pretty long term collaborators, ⁓ like Sandy mentioned. yeah, so you know, once we do some work together it usually keeps going for years following, which I think speaks a lot to the value that not only we get out of it, but our collaborators as well.
speaker-0: That's really great. You know, at Cassie, we often will say that we are an organization of snowboarders for snowboarders. You we're all our entire staff snowboards. ⁓ you know, so we really are aligned ⁓ in more ways than one and in your organization, you're all female and indigenous, ⁓ which is really cool. And I thought I'd give you the opportunity to speak to the power that that holds within your Kind of daily work.
speaker-2: I think it's really important that we have other Indigenous women in leadership roles within our organization because we know what we're what we want. We we know how to support each other. ⁓ and especially a lot of our our program leads or our board of directors have all come through IWO as participants. And I think that that's really important to have in our applications, like has seeing that they have have actually seen our programming and been a part of it and really enjoyed it to the point where they want to be involved. And that's kind of how we pick our our leadership roles within the organization is just how they have shown up for IWO at our events gives us a really good idea of how they're going to support our programming in the future and how they're going to represent IWO as an organization.
speaker-0: Yeah, there's a a lot of genuine, you know, wanting to be a part of it, right? That that comes from that. I think that's that's really cool to hear you say it that way. ⁓ reading I'm gonna read this. I I I saw this on your website when I was digging a little bit and I you've spoken to it a little bit already, but I have a bit of a follow up question. Anyway, it reads, Our partnerships are grounded in reciprocity, where giving and receiving go hand in hand. ⁓ it's a really powerful statement. And I feel like it's an opportunity for us or for me to ask, like, who benefits from the partnership that we've created?
speaker-2: participants benefit hugely. ⁓ and that extends into like I was saying earlier, some of the the kids that have gone through Cassie are now looking at jobs in W at Whistler Blackhome Snow School. So it's not just like them that is benefiting. It's the snow school is benefiting. The outdoor industry is benefiting because all of a sudden you're going to have indigenous instructors and The way that I teach a lesson at Whistler Blackhome, it isn't just about snowboarding. I I love to tell people the stories of the land. And so Whistler Blackhome is now getting an even closer, intimate experience. Like the the participants in my lessons are getting that intimate experience of connecting to the land that they are visitors on. And I think that go that speaks volumes for the h entire outdoor industry. If we have more indigenous people in leadership rules, you're going to have a different experience. And so I feel like a lot of people are benefiting from the partnership. Cassie is, you know, we're here. ⁓ Ayana and I are here to to put a the voice out that Cassie is helping us and has ⁓ created these experiences and opportunities for our participants and in hand experiences for the general public. when we start to see indigenous people being hired into ⁓ guiding or instructing roles.
speaker-0: Like beautifully said. That was awesome. ⁓ and all I could think about ⁓ was something that you'd said earlier in the episode about working with groups that are mission aligned. ⁓ and all of the products of the efforts here in getting new people certified to teach snowboarding, ⁓ is obviously, you know, our mission. S ⁓ but then you're taking it it one step further, which I think is Really amazing and I think wise this this partnership is working really well and we're stoked on it. So I guess furthering our talk about partnership, what kind of d doors is this opening? I guess short term but also long term?
speaker-1: I think in the short term I mentioned earlier the group that went through the Cassie programming really learned a lot not only about instructing snowboarding but how to show up, you know, professionally in the outdoor industry in a way that they hadn't experienced before. So I think in the short term it's like gaining that confidence that okay, I have the tools and the skills to pursue a job in this field. and then I think those longer term impacts are yeah, visibility of Indigenous folks in these leadership positions for youth to see and then ⁓ be inspired to take courses on their own to work in the industry. It's sharing ⁓ indigenous knowledge and ways of being in the outdoor industry as leaders in the industry. and it's getting indigenous people ultimately back on to the land and being invited back onto the land after, you know, a history of of being not invited onto their land. Mm-hmm.
speaker-0: Yeah, that's really cool. And I like the way that you explained that because I know that impact is one of your core values ⁓ and something that you're you're working towards within your programming. So it's it's neat to see the stories sort of come together in that way. And again, like I said earlier in the episode, just to be a small drop in the bucket ⁓ towards that impact is a really cool thing. ⁓ we've talked a lot about skiing and snowboarding. on the episode, but I know that your programming extends far beyond the winter season. So I thought I'd give you the opportunity to talk a little bit about other programming that you're doing and, you know, how that differs from snowboarding in terms of its impact on your community.
speaker-1: Yeah, we run a lot of different programming throughout the year. Rob, you and I talked about earlier, it seems like every season we have ⁓ programming running. So there's not really a big break in the year. but we see so we are grant funded primarily. it's grants and donations. And so depending on the funding, that can impact what programming we run throughout the year. But our kind of core programming is that backcountry programming. ⁓ skiing and snowboarding in resort in the winter. ⁓ sometime we do snowshoeing, ⁓ if the year allows. And then in the spring, summer, and fall, we're doing mountain biking, trail running, hiking, rock climbing. We did some sailing last year. one of our board members is a big sailor and she said, We need to get indigenous folks on the water. So ⁓ some more water based activities. ⁓ Yeah, we have a pretty diverse portfolio of activities proposed to do. ⁓ we also want to create some more accessibility. We recognize that a lot of the sports we do are kind of extreme and not accessible to everyone. So making sure we have like a walking program, we have a beating program where people can just come together and gather indoors. So Indigenous women indoors for for some of those events. ⁓ but yeah, we we definitely have a a diverse portfolio throughout the year.
speaker-0: Yeah, we were speaking a little bit ⁓ offline about how our off season and snowboarding allows us to plan for the the on season. ⁓ but it seems like you would always be doing both, which would must be exhausting. So you mentioned accessibility ⁓ to these sports as being a bit of a barrier, especially being grant funded, I would imagine. Do you get gear ⁓ donations, do you have outlets for that? Like what are some ways that people can get involved to support your cause? Cause is probably not the right way.
speaker-1: I mean, there's lots that can be done. I think we talked a lot about that invitation and what does that invitation look like. And sometimes that is in the form of providing gear. ⁓ so partners who can provide, you know, runners or running vests for a running program, for example, or harnesses for a climbing program. ⁓ for skiing it might be providing passes so that folks can go up. So yeah, gear is is is a big one. Donations and funding so that we can pay our program leads and volunteers, get an honorario when we can. ⁓ we want to be able to support ⁓ the folks who are helping us as much as possible. I think ⁓ talking about Indigenous women outdoors and understanding the importance of celebrating Indigenous culture and inviting it into the outdoor space and making the connection to land stewardship, ⁓ to, you know, decolonizing sport, which I we don't have to get into today, but there's a lot of conversation about what it means to decolonize sport. And I think when you're thinking about the perspectives of indigenous folks, you really start to paint that picture. So I think ⁓ you know, folks can kind of take some time to think about this and be critical about how they use the land and who's able to share the land with them. So yeah, I think a lot of different ways to be involved in support it. I don't know if there's a tangent there.
speaker-0: No, tangents are welcome. That's what the podcast is all about. And ⁓ you said something there that was kind of impactful, which was talking about it, right? ⁓ I'm stoked that we got to talk about it today. ⁓ we're using this platform to communicate the voice a little bit more. What are some channels that people can check out to, you know, extend their own research and be able to talk about it in, you know, within their own community?
speaker-1: I mean, I think following us on Instagram, we're not just posting about our programming. We're sharing links to ⁓ other folks' channels ⁓ on social media, ⁓ places where you can kind of get some education. ⁓ and I think, you know, talk just talk to your indigenous friends, reach out to the communities and and take advantage of the opportunities you have to learn. Sandy, is there anything else you want to add in terms of like where can folks start to have these conversations and be a little more critical about where they're at?
speaker-2: is direct people to the cultural centers because yeah, you can talk to your indigenous friends, but sometimes they don't want to talk about this. And that's what what these museums are for and the cultural centers are for is you you to go and ask these questions and it's in a safe, comfortable environment. You're not you know, like it's I love going to the the cultural center in Whistler. Like I learned something new about my own history every day that I go there. So it's it's pretty cool. You can usually find like books in those cultural centers, ⁓ sometimes written by the locals. I'm actually staring at one right now. I don't know why it's sitting here, but it's called the Intocman calendar. And it it really teaches us about the plants that we used. And I got this at the Squamishwa Cultural Center, so I don't know why it's just sitting there.
speaker-0: Well, that's amazing. Thanks for sharing those outlets that people can further their own education. I think that that's really important ⁓ in the grand scheme of the conversation. So what's next for IWO over the summer, into the coming seasons? ⁓ I don't know, choose your own adventure on this question, I guess.
speaker-1: Yeah, I think again, you and I talked maybe a little bit about this offline, but you know, I think for myself, I've been in the role of executive director for just over a year and we saw a lot of change within the organization throughout that year, just having someone available full time to kind of help support and and guide and and make sure our foundation is is really is really solid. ⁓ so I think what's next is making sure that our programming remains like that we're still hitting all the marks that we wanna hit in terms of our mission and making sure that it's still culturally relevant and culturally safe ⁓ and that the activities make sense for the group that we are. I think we get approached with so many different types of programming and activities and we just want to make sure that we're ensuring that it's still culturally grounded, whatever activity that we're doing. And yeah like Sandy and said, there's more and more folks who want to join IWO. And I think what's next is just making sure we can sustain that growth and sustain the the support that we do give to our participants because we want to make sure if they're interested in becoming leaders that that we can provide them with some training ⁓ and resources to kind of thrive in the outdoor industry the way that they'd like to. so I feel like Yeah, that's what's next. It's just thinking sustainably about how we keep growing and connecting folks and creating community. Sandy, I know if you have any big bold ideas for what's next.
speaker-2: Just ⁓ I feel like this this summer we're continuing the programming that we we've done all the time. Like we're part of the Arcterics Academy and we've got our mountain biking and our trail running and marathons and things like that, like just continuing on with that and not really expanding into any new sports. I I don't think we're ready. I think we need to to figure out how to sustainably run the ⁓ the core sports that we have.
speaker-1: Agree.
speaker-0: Nice. Well keep doing what you're doing because it's awesome. Summer solstice comes on Sunday. ⁓ so enjoy the changing of the seasons. I know I'm enjoying digging into summer sports and everything that goes with that. ⁓ it's a really beautiful thing. Thanks so much for coming on and and sharing about your organization and your community and having a conversation with me and our broader audience within Cassie. ⁓ That was really special. So I really appreciate the time that you took to do that with me here today. To our listeners, thanks again for tuning in to another episode of Dropping Next. Be sure to jump on Instagram and follow Indigenous Women Outdoors. They're pretty easy to find. And like we talked about on the episode, you'll know right away when you see their graphics on their posts and all the information they're sharing. So be sure to do that. That's your first step. And be sure to jump on and leave us a review on the episode or on the show in general. We would love to hear from you as we continue to grow this thing. And if you have topics you want us to discuss, guests you want us to check out and have a chat with, email us at podcast at Cassie-ACMS dot com. ⁓ Ayana and Sandy, thank you again. Thank you so much for coming on. And to the listeners, we'll see you in two weeks for our next episode.
speaker-1: Thank you.
speaker-1: Thanks for the nice intro.
speaker-0: I see that you're a skier, Ayana, so you ⁓ might be the first skier on our snowboard podcast. Really? ⁓ so let's jump into it. for the people who are not familiar with Indigenous women outdoors, maybe you could give us a little background about the organization and what it's all about.
speaker-1: Yeah.
speaker-2: Yeah, I can take that on ⁓ as ⁓ one of the founding members. I think that makes sense. ⁓ it the program came around or the organization came about because a friend of mine, Maya Anton, she had noticed that there weren't very many indigenous people or indigenous women in the outdoor industry and she was hoping to to change that. So she put up a Facebook post. looking for other indigenous women that were trying to get into the backcountry and s ⁓ splitboarding or ski touring. And of course I was tagged in that being the snowboarder from my nation. And ⁓ I met up with Maya and we hit it off over a beer and squamish and decided to create programming that would help not just get indigenous women into these high cost, high barrier sports, but also to try to ⁓ get women into training to become guides and to become instructors and ⁓ actually work within the industry so we could change the way that the industry would perceive Indigenous people in the ⁓ the outdoors. And so we started out with the backcountry program. And we immediately realized that's a really high barrier sport to get into. It's not just the cost of the equipment, but it's the knowledge to get there. And so we realized that We needed to take a little bit of a step back and look at ⁓ creating socials ⁓ so to get more experience on snow. And I think that's where the partnership with Cassie kinda came in and ⁓ and again, looking for those opportunities to get more indigenous women ⁓ working in the outdoors.
speaker-0: Yeah, that's really cool. ⁓ I didn't even really think about that. The I mean, there's like a a safety ⁓ thing in the backcountry as well. Like do you are you a backcountry guide or do you bring guides along with you when you're out there?
speaker-2: I'm in training right now. ⁓ in going into maybe my fifth year. Injury unfortunately has taken a toll and extended my my journey a little bit, but ⁓ I do work as a tail guide ⁓ for a couple of different backcountry outfits ⁓ throughout BC. And with the IWO I do kinda take on a bit more of a leadership role when we're going places. I I'm allowed to to teach ASTs, Avalanche Skills Training Level One. ⁓ so that allows me to get into simple terrain and kind of share my knowledge with the women in that those areas.
speaker-0: Mm, very cool. Not a lot of split board guides out there, period. Let alone women or indigenous women. So that's a really cool ⁓ thing that you're you're chasing there.
speaker-1: I was just gonna add, I think it's really special. The first backcountry programming that IWO ran in November of twenty twenty. I was lucky enough to be a participant in that programming. And at that time we were hiring guides to do the avalanche safety training. We had guides taking us out on our out days and Sandy's just, you know, learned so much over the years and accomplished so many things, been certified. gone into such leadership roles within the outdoor industry that now we've kind of closed that circle. And she's teaching the AST ones and she's taking the split orders and the the skiers out. And I think that's something really special to note and definitely highlights what Sandy was mentioning about our mission, which is to get more indigenous folks in leadership roles and working in the outdoor industry.
speaker-0: Do you end up with like the same like a similar ⁓ group every time? Is it always new women? ⁓ like I know you mentioned that you do a lot of socials as well. ⁓ you know, probably inside and outside of the backcountry. How does that all look?
speaker-2: Yeah, we've ⁓ we open up applications and it's a new set of participants for the intro programming every year. ⁓ we have extended and and done or ⁓ we've expanded and we run like a more of a advanced backcountry. And so that's all the alumni members that can come back and further their education and knowledge in whatever field it is that they wanna do. Like we've done it in mountain biking as well, where ⁓ we have our our members come back for we had a race team one year. So it's been pretty cool to like see IWO progress from like all intro programming into more advanced and ⁓ getting people more certified to to work outside.
speaker-0: Well, that's really cool. And that kind of makes sense, right? The the older your gen your organization becomes, the the more alumna you're gonna have and the the greater ⁓ range of ability you're gonna have and I I guess the greater range of programming you're gonna have to have available, right? In the fullness of time. That's pretty cool. ⁓ we we really dug into the organization ⁓ quite quickly there. I I wanted to give you each a chance to ⁓ give the listeners a little bit more info on. ⁓ kinda who you are outside of the intro that I gave, ⁓ and a little bit of your like background in the snow industry in particular.
speaker-1: I'm I'm happy to go first. I feel like I have the least interesting ⁓ story since it's not snowboarding, it's it's skiing. But I mean, I love getting on the mountain and and being out with everyone all the same. And yeah, my personal background is that my family is Cree on my mom's side from Whitefish Lake Nation in Alberta. ⁓ and then Scottish on my dad's side. And I was born in Edmonton but moved to Vancouver. In two thousand and two. And so we started getting on the snow quite a bit more then. and I started skiing a lot and really loved skiing. Got interested in the in the backcountry, and then that's when I joined the ⁓ backcountry cohort with IWO. And I guess a few years before that I actually did my CSIA level one, which is the Cassie equivalent ⁓ for skiing. So I did do a little bit of instructing and really understood how the programming sets you up to be a professional in the outdoor industry and gives you like so many different kinds of leadership skills and also improves your own skills on on the snow. So I've had yeah some exposure to the outdoor industry for sure when it comes to skiing and ⁓ it was really amazing to work with Cassie this year and help some folks ⁓ get into some programming. ⁓ and get some certifications done. yeah, that's kind of my background. I think Sandy's gonna have a much more thorough and and really exciting background when it comes to snowboarding.
speaker-0: Well, we're happy to have a skier on the show. Let's let's be honest here. We are sharing the same slopes on the same mountains and experiencing the same joy.
speaker-2: Yeah, I've been on snow my entire life. My my parents made sure of that. My mom was in love with snowmobiling and so I actually came from a snowmobile family. I didn't actually step onto my first snowboard until I was fifteen. And that was kinda because all my friends were snowboarders. I you know, I grew up in Pemberton. A lot of my friends were from Whistler. I worked in Whistler Village and one day I was just like, you know what, I'm gonna get a job. I'm going to buy a snowboard and I'm gonna try this thing out. And I did. Loved it. Broke my wrist the first day. but that didn't stop me. in a clue as to what my future would hold. But ⁓ no, I kept going. I ended up on the First Nation snowboard team in its first year, 2005. And then from there I got an invite to the BC Freestyle team to compete in half pipe. And so I did that for
speaker-0: Sorry.
speaker-2: ⁓ a number of years, which was amazing and it kind of transformed my life into what it is now. I gained a lot of experience in training, ⁓ nutrition, and just like mental like health and stability at a performance level. And so it made me a stronger person to ⁓ to move through life within the industry as the only indigenous person that I knew doing this thing. And ⁓ I started teaching when I was nineteen at Whistler Blackhome. I just celebrated my twentieth year with them. And yeah. I've actually done about twenty five seasons of teaching. So I I've taught in Japan, I've taught in New Zealand and Australia, and ⁓ yeah, just snowboarding kinda took me around the world and introduced me to like the most rad people I've
speaker-0: Congrats.
speaker-2: Could ever imagine meeting. And yeah, I wanted to share that with the the youth. I came from a youth program, the First Nations snowboard team. And so I've now started or I've taken over the Lietwa Kwechola, which means Lietwa sliding in our language. So I've been running the snow program for the kids for two seasons now. And it's really cool to see that some of them got certified Cassie level one this year and are really excited to start their jobs at snow school next year. So I'm pretty stoked to to be able to see that growth within the ⁓ the next generation. And yeah, that's kind of where I'm at today is just supporting the kids that want to get out on snow.
speaker-0: Well, that's amazing. ⁓ well, thanks so much for your contribution to the industry and all of those different facets, but especially, you know, ⁓ Cassie, we're passionate about ⁓ bringing up youth and, you know, getting younger people certified and working in the industry and, you know, just falling in love with snowboarding beyond sport, you know, that's I found this beautiful thing where ⁓ you find your community within a sport and and it becomes more ⁓ you know, it almost defines us in a way. ⁓ another thing at Cassie that well, I guess in life in general, but we ask the question why a lot. With indigenous women outdoors, what's the big why?
speaker-2: This. I was just in an open gym like kind of mental training session with Arcteryx. And they were talking a lot about we know what we do, but why do we do it? And that's the passion. And so I believe, yeah, IWO, we run programming to get Indigenous women outdoors, but why? And that's probably the most important thing. And like growing up as the only snowboarder. within my nation. Well, it wasn't the only one, but I was just known for it because there was nobody else as passionate about it as I was. Like I wanted to find that community. And I think that's why IWO is running is to find that community that not all of us have. And and that can mean, yeah, a community in the outdoors, but it can also mean a community of indigenous women. So we're learning about our indigeneity on the land. And I think that is a huge reason of why IWO is IWO. But Ayana, your participant, now executive director.
speaker-1: So yeah, speaking from my personal experience as a participant, community really is at the core of the why. And I found out the why through participating. And I think growing up in the ski industry, I was surrounded by a lot of people, but not very many Indigenous people. ⁓ going out to the programming with IWO for the first time, ⁓ was the first time I was on snow with other indigenous folks. And I didn't realize that my culture and what I grew up knowing with my family could be could exist in the outdoor industry as well. They felt like kind of two separate, separate worlds. And then coming together with IWO, I realized no, those those worlds actually fit very well together. And it's important for Indigenous folks to find community in the outdoor industry. to get that invitation to feel welcome. to be allowed to step into these leadership positions and work with the greater outdoor industry. But I think it really starts with forming that community ⁓ and making folks feel really, really safe on the snow culturally ⁓ with each other. And then that just allows folks to blossom in the programming. ⁓ so yeah, community is definitely at the heart of the organization and and our why.
speaker-0: Yeah, that's amazing. I had the opportunity to sit on our ⁓ what we call our diversity advisory group with Cassie. And one of the like core things that we are strive for in this group is ⁓ we're we're working towards this statement is which is ⁓ that you can't be what you can't see. so the idea of, you know, creating visibility, you know, so that everybody can f you know, feel seen. And so I think you both spoke to that. really nicely there. So the connection between IWO and Cassie, I guess, kind of came to be in a in a number of different ways, but I I thought just for our listeners, it might be worth me talking a little bit about our first tracks fund, which came to be last season. We call it the First Tracks Fund, which is essentially a legacy fund that was put together in order to support organizations or individuals that align with ⁓ our core mission and vision. And there's some different areas of focus within the First Tracks Fund. So instructor training, obviously, certification grants and bursaries, environmental and climate education, supporting other initiatives aligned with the with our mission. And another area of focus, ⁓ which is I think wh why we ended up here is ⁓ indigenous leadership and participation initiatives. It's written right into ⁓ the fund. ⁓ which obviously aligns like a hundred percent with what you're doing at Indigenous Women Outdoors. So when I came to learn about your organization, I was like, we gotta get these folks on board because they they're they're doing what we're talking about. ⁓ so it so it all worked out, which is really great. ⁓ and so we were able to support some members of your community on a Cassie Level One course last year to certify some instructors within your community. ⁓ Which we we love. ⁓ you know, that that makes us feel really good to be able to be, you know, a small drop in the bucket. but I I'll kinda hand it over to you to to speak to kind of our connection between our two organizations from your perspective.
speaker-2: Ayana, I think you did a lot of the the work in crew coordinating that, so thank you.
speaker-1: Yeah, I think when you and I spoke, Rob, about the first tracks program ⁓ or legacy fund, ⁓ it totally made sense. You know, the the purpose of of having that program and our mission definitely align and getting interest was was not ⁓ a hard thing to do. A lot of people want to improve their skills but also become employable and we want to create opportunities for employment but also leadership for Indigenous folks. And I think that this was just a a perfect marriage of like two really great ⁓ missions coming together. The folks that went through the programming is definitely like a I think a big step for the group going through such like professional programming. but they learned so much and I think them being in a group together really made a difference. Like I said, or what we've been talking about creating community and and getting Indigenous folks together is kind of like the first step to creating safety for people to all to allow themselves to try new things. And I think ⁓ having a number we had five folks go out for their level one, having them be in one group together with the Catsy instructor ⁓ was the right right the right call and and I think it allowed everyone to push themselves and and really do a good job in in the program and ⁓ I know people were celebrating at the end. They're really happy that ⁓ they had they were able to do that together. ⁓ I think it it was impactful that we got to get some meek folks out together as a group.
speaker-0: Yeah, that's that's really cool. There's a certain amount of comfort, right, in in being surrounded by your people ⁓ when you're trying something hard. Yeah, so that's cool that they had that opportunity to do that together. ⁓ speaking of community, what are some of the commitments that IWO has made to building community?
speaker-1: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think some of the commitments are, you know, respecting each other's cultures. we have indigenous folks coming from a lot of different communities, but we do have some shared outlooks on on life and ⁓ how we respect the environment around us. So I think that we're we're committed to bringing a community together that's ⁓ culturally safe but also respectful of the environment that we're in. and we want to advocate for them to be leaders in their communities, outside of sport and within sport. and we're committed to just uplifting our participants as much as possible in whatever ways they need, ⁓ be that leadership, be that career wise, be that just to get out and have community and and have fun together. so I think that that those are our core commitments as an organization.
speaker-0: Having fun together i is such a great way to build community, right? What have you witnessed ⁓ in terms of growth ⁓ within the community ⁓ through the efforts that ⁓ that you've done to to build that community?
speaker-1: I was looking at our participant ⁓ numbers for each year and I think our first year, Sandy mentioned we just had the one program for the backcountry. ⁓ and then year after year we grew s slowly and then I would say in the last two years we've grown significantly. So we're looking at like numbers of participants. We went from like twenty five to fifty to sixty to seventy, and then all of a sudden we have a hundred and fifty participants coming through in a year. ⁓ and then two hundred participants coming through in a year. So I think that the impact of folks coming out is that they invite their friends too. They're like, Hey, I found this space that's really safe and cool and I was able to look to get a lot out of it and put a lot it back into it. ⁓ and part of putting back into it is ⁓ them inviting their friends and getting more folks to come to come along. And so I think that ⁓ it's really clear that there's a demand or really low barrier access to sport from indigenous communities. and we're still figuring out how to how to balance that, but we wanna include as many folks as we can in programs like what we have set up with Cassie is is one of the ways that we can do that. And
speaker-0: Like, you know, I think a lot of your efforts are ⁓ around providing access to sport. I mean, we're particularly interested in snowboarding, but I know you do all sorts of other sports as well. What does that access mean to you at IWL?
speaker-1: Yeah, I think I think access means gear, definitely gear, safe instruction so that we can go back out there and be safe together. access also means having the invitation to just show up is show up as who you are and to be welcome and to be challenged. ⁓ that's what I think about when I think about access. Sandy, do you have anything that you want to add?
speaker-2: Yeah, I think that sums it up very very eloquently actually like the ⁓ the invitation is a huge, huge thing. this is something that's like kind of been brought up recently is a lot of ⁓ local nations they didn't feel that the invitation until recently and that's been really cool to see that all of a sudden grow within the Litwat nation. ⁓ having exactly the one person that comes out and then they share with their friends and then all of a sudden we have a whole new community. So IWO is not done growing yet. We we have so many more women that are interested but just haven't heard of us yet or don't really understand the space. And so ⁓ as an organization I think it's important and what we've been working on is making sure that ⁓ everybody has the invitation.
speaker-0: Yeah, that's amazing. So creating that access through invitation is just kinda kinda sounds like there's like this exponential effect that comes out of it, right? One person tells another person and then those two people tell two people. You got this whole crew ⁓ who didn't know they could be out there doing this together. So that's that's pretty amazing. And that speaks to that visibility thing as well, right? The more people you have out there ripping, the the more you're gonna get.
speaker-1: All a sudden.
speaker-0: just the way it works. That's pretty rad. ⁓ it sort of bleeds really naturally into the next question here about generosity. so can you speak to the importance of generosity within your ⁓ either community or the organization? I guess it's probably pretty interwoven.
speaker-2: Think what creates our community is the people that attend. ⁓ we we try to make sure that everybody feels welcome and everybody understands that they're gonna be giving back in a in a way that they feel comfortable too as well. And and that is within indigenous cultures itself, reciprocity is really important. So we're giving, but we're also receiving and these our participants are receiving the opportunity to to access these high cost sports and what they're giving us is the opportunity to create community and create these safe spaces, which is really cool. I it's different from any program that I've been a part of before. Like I just feel more confident and more safe in the spaces that IWO creates.
speaker-1: Yeah. ⁓ I think I'll add from, you know, my my roles perspective, I also think of generosity from a partnership perspective and and what that looks like. I think that there's reciprocity happening in in many different ways. I think the participants coming out and sharing ⁓ their culture and their stories with the broader, you know, outdoor community is is an act of reciprocity. But I think that ⁓ the partners who come to us and provide us with more opportunities to get folks out onto the land is another act of reciprocity. And what we can give back is healthy conversations about why it's important for that you know, hand to be extended. And yeah, I think I think reciprocity and generosity kind of go hand in hand when we're talking about how that shows up with indigenous women outdoors and with our participants but also how our partners.
speaker-0: Beautiful. I love that. ⁓ really well put. So we I prepared the questions in a couple of different blocks of questions, ⁓ as we talked about earlier. ⁓ but what I didn't tell you is that we like to do this thing called the palate cleanser, kind of halfway through the episode just to break it up, ⁓ especially when we're talking on heavier topics. ⁓ so it in not related whatsoever, just for fun. I got three kind of quick questions for each of you to answer. number one, sketchiest mountain experience.
speaker-2: actually it was up at Duffy ⁓ before I knew anything about, you know well, I'd done the Avalanche skills level one, but that's about it. And I was just very much relying on the other people in my my party. And we started out late, which was a red flag. ⁓ in the spring especially and we were the first time this was the first time touring with this one person. So we didn't know their fitness level. Another red flag going into what we know of as a pretty challenging or complex terrain ⁓ for the first time with this touring partner. And so these things kind of came together and we ended up in a slide path in midday on a south face with a ton of overhead hazard, trying to move as fast as we could. to get across it and we we managed, we got across, but within five minutes there was a slide in the path. And ⁓ we were like, okay, let's get out of here. But the safest way out was to keep going up to the lake, across and then down into a more ⁓ well, simpler terrain. And so yeah, I think that was probably the my biggest close call in the backcountry.
speaker-0: Oof. Well, we can learn from from that moment. Hey Okay, thanks for sharing. What what about you, Ayana?
speaker-1: I'm pretty risk averse, I would say, in general. So I'm I'm definitely pretty careful about the train I go into and it's usually pretty simple in the backcountry. But we did have a day as a group with IWO with a guide, ⁓ where the weather was just like so gnarly, so rotten, like icicles were forming off of our guides like ears and beard and we couldn't see anything and I think we were all really struggling on the uphill ⁓ and we got to I suppose the summit, but we couldn't see that that's where we were. And I think we were all pretty scared and and freaked out. But we're all very new and fresh to this environment. The guide was totally fine, but we're like, no, we're gonna be stuck up here forever. We're we're never getting down. Like this is it. Like say your goodbyes, finish your snacks, like this is this is it. ⁓ and the sun broke and we were totally fine. So that's probably the sketchiest I felt on the skin track, just being new and you know trusting the guide but then looking at my par my fellow participants and you know not agreeing that we were safe. But in the end we were totally safe. But that's probably the sketchiest it's gotten for me. Okay, so it's very risk averse. I'm not gonna try anything ⁓ too intense without the right conditions. So
speaker-0: Well, there's nothing wrong with being risk averse, let's be honest. ⁓ cool. Second question. ⁓ and a little less heavy perhaps. ⁓ favorite place to go and ⁓ when you need to take a breath?
speaker-2: Now my new patio and our tiny house that we just moved to. I love waking up in the morning and sitting out there and listening to the birds and the wind in the trees and the rumble of the the waterfall that's kind of far off and just the views. I I just love being in my home territory on the land that I grew up on.
speaker-0: Hell yeah. Good answer.
speaker-1: I love that. Yeah, I was thinking like we have some summer spots and winter spots. ⁓ I've grown up in Vancouver, so I think there's a spot off Lighthouse Park. ⁓ you can kind of create your own path to some of those rocks. And I think just sitting there and looking at House Sound and and Bowen Island and watching the sunset is really where I like to kind of disconnect and and take myself.
speaker-0: Disconnect. That's probably the word I should have used. Nice one. ⁓ okay, last one. ⁓ best inclement weather to watch from your living room window.
speaker-2: Any kind of storm that's hitting the mountain. Like it's so cool to see how the clouds form and how they react to to the mountains and how like it's it's just so cool to see like you can tell that it's pouring rain up there or dumping snow, but in the valley it it's not there. Sometimes it's like that and it's so cool. And of course thunderstorms are
speaker-1: Yeah, thunderstorms are always up there.
speaker-0: Yeah.
speaker-1: yeah, I think it's when I see that it's snowing on the local mountains in Vancouver. I have a really nice rooftop I can go up to and if it's raining, sometimes I just go up to see like is is it also raining on the mountains? And if it looks like it's raining there, hopefully it's snowing there. And then I go on the apps and like go on the webcams and see if there's actually snow happen there. But that's my little city view.
speaker-0: Nice. ⁓ this past season it was just it was just rain up there, right?
speaker-1: It's a lot of rain. Yeah. Yeah. It's a little bit disappointing. But, you know, we're still looking, still hoping. We had some snow days and that that ⁓ checked the box for me.
speaker-0: Yeah. Nice. Well, cruising into the backside of our episode here, I guess we'll start off with how you appear online. I noticed a lot of kind of color and like really fun graphics ⁓ within your branding and ⁓ it would be kind of cool to to hear you speak on that a little bit.
speaker-1: Yeah, I think so Maya took on kind of like the brand identity and website work when she was still in the role of executive director. And I think we can all say she did an excellent job, but she worked with a really great ⁓ developer who you know, really let us try to tell our story with like the icons we use, the colors we use. And I think our story is that connection to land and so lots of like colors that you would find in nature. ⁓ greens and reds and browns and blues and we took a lot of inspiration from from our logo as well. our logo is on the shared territory of the Squamish and Leewat and it's this beautiful I think it's it kind of mimics Panorama Ridge. we have a a woman or figure in the center with a big heart and there's there's blue water and ⁓ I think we really took inspiration from that. ⁓ and then Tavy, she's our ⁓ social media coordinator. She has really transformed how we show up online on social media and been collaborative with other folks on the IWO team, but making sure that we're showing our participants out on the land and have like giving that perspective of what it's like to actually come out with us on the land. So lots of photos of people running, walking, talking, slowing down, and then keeping with Just like those bright colors and like I think it really mirrors the fun that we have when we're out together and Tavy has come out as a participant and I think the more that she comes out and hangs out with the group, the better our identity becomes online. ⁓ that's kind of the background on on why we look the way we do online.
speaker-0: Yeah, like it really works so well. Like whenever one of your posts come up, it's just unquestionably yours. You know, like there's like silhouette of a tree or some element of the outdoors, like really, really simplified, but in a way that's like really tasteful and I you know, knowing about your organization like does such a good job at at explaining what you're all about, ⁓ in a really simple way. So yeah, it's pretty
speaker-1: I appreciate that.
speaker-0: So you spoke to your team there a little bit. ⁓ you have a reasonable size team or a big team. I don't know. I guess it's all perspective. but I'd be interested to know how you built out that team and you know how you've come across these great people that define your organization.
speaker-1: Yeah, I mean Sandy can probably speak to more of, you know, the beginnings, but ⁓ they started out as such a small team. It was just you and Maya and ⁓ how did you end up recruiting the first couple of folks? Yeah.
speaker-2: Yeah, And ⁓ it grew into Maya, Melissa, Michelle and I and Matt Voost randomly. ⁓ so we had this one guy, but it just like remembered the first IWO outing that we had. We went all the way to Kamloops to go to this indigenous youth mountain bike festival. I guess that's where Matt came in. And ⁓ the festival ended up being cancelled. But we wanted to go anyways and it was Maya's birthday. And that was kind of, I guess, the moment where we were like, Whoa, this is really cool. We've actually got a bit of a team. And it's not just Maya and I anymore. There were four of us. And it was really just such a fun, fun trip and kind of like eye opening that we are we're actually an organization now. It's not just two friends like going at this and creating random programming. We're we actually have the support of a bit of a team. And then Yeah, it's just it's grown so much since those days.
speaker-1: Yeah, I feel like Melissa, Maya, Sandy, Michelle kind of laid the foundation for what our team is like today. So we've kind of built out a team where we have some program leads. we have our board of directors, and the board of directors really help guide me and Sandy and the other program leads ⁓ to keep growing in a sustainable way. ⁓ to keep offering programming that's culturally relevant and that makes sense for our participants. so yeah, we we have a growing team. We still feel small 'cause it's all mostly volunteer based. but we have a great solid team that really has a really clear idea of the direction we want to go in. And I think that's lent to the growth we've seen in the past couple of years. So Yeah, but I loved hearing that, Sandy, the early days and it really did set the foundation for for what we have going on today.
speaker-0: Having a strong volunteer base just speaks to the passion that exists right within your workplace or whatever you want to call it. We a similar structure at Cassie. ⁓ so it's kind of as you were speaking about your team, I was feeling like a lot of parallels of of how things come together. ⁓ and it got me to thinking about, you know, collaboration and I often we're sharing ideas as a team and I'll say something and people say, ⁓ let's do it this way instead of that way. ⁓ that's great. ⁓ and this is why we're a team. We can't just be one person making decisions. And you know, when you come together to make decisions is where the strength in your group comes together, right? So can you speak a little bit to collaboration and how what that means to your organization and how you do things.
speaker-1: Yes. Sandy, did you want it? I wasn't sure if you wanted to take it or not.
speaker-2: No, I think ⁓ in recent years, like you've definitely organized most of the collabs that we have with brands. ⁓ yeah, in the early years I was definitely very much a huge part of of reaching out to brands and gaining support and creating those partnerships. And ⁓ yeah, and I think a lot of the the collaborations that we've done in the past are still very much alive and well. ⁓ and that I think that speaks to the organization's ability to to give back just as much as we are receiving.
speaker-1: Yeah, I I agree. I think that like we s spoke about earlier, making sure that, you know, if if there's ⁓ a collaboration extended to us and we're benefiting from it in some way, that we provide some benefit back to whoever we're collaborating with. ⁓ I think we also do want to make sure that we're mission aligned with whoever we're collaborating with. ⁓ and being intentional about that, we gain some pretty long term collaborators, ⁓ like Sandy mentioned. yeah, so you know, once we do some work together it usually keeps going for years following, which I think speaks a lot to the value that not only we get out of it, but our collaborators as well.
speaker-0: That's really great. You know, at Cassie, we often will say that we are an organization of snowboarders for snowboarders. You we're all our entire staff snowboards. ⁓ you know, so we really are aligned ⁓ in more ways than one and in your organization, you're all female and indigenous, ⁓ which is really cool. And I thought I'd give you the opportunity to speak to the power that that holds within your Kind of daily work.
speaker-2: I think it's really important that we have other Indigenous women in leadership roles within our organization because we know what we're what we want. We we know how to support each other. ⁓ and especially a lot of our our program leads or our board of directors have all come through IWO as participants. And I think that that's really important to have in our applications, like has seeing that they have have actually seen our programming and been a part of it and really enjoyed it to the point where they want to be involved. And that's kind of how we pick our our leadership roles within the organization is just how they have shown up for IWO at our events gives us a really good idea of how they're going to support our programming in the future and how they're going to represent IWO as an organization.
speaker-0: Yeah, there's a a lot of genuine, you know, wanting to be a part of it, right? That that comes from that. I think that's that's really cool to hear you say it that way. ⁓ reading I'm gonna read this. I I I saw this on your website when I was digging a little bit and I you've spoken to it a little bit already, but I have a bit of a follow up question. Anyway, it reads, Our partnerships are grounded in reciprocity, where giving and receiving go hand in hand. ⁓ it's a really powerful statement. And I feel like it's an opportunity for us or for me to ask, like, who benefits from the partnership that we've created?
speaker-2: participants benefit hugely. ⁓ and that extends into like I was saying earlier, some of the the kids that have gone through Cassie are now looking at jobs in W at Whistler Blackhome Snow School. So it's not just like them that is benefiting. It's the snow school is benefiting. The outdoor industry is benefiting because all of a sudden you're going to have indigenous instructors and The way that I teach a lesson at Whistler Blackhome, it isn't just about snowboarding. I I love to tell people the stories of the land. And so Whistler Blackhome is now getting an even closer, intimate experience. Like the the participants in my lessons are getting that intimate experience of connecting to the land that they are visitors on. And I think that go that speaks volumes for the h entire outdoor industry. If we have more indigenous people in leadership rules, you're going to have a different experience. And so I feel like a lot of people are benefiting from the partnership. Cassie is, you know, we're here. ⁓ Ayana and I are here to to put a the voice out that Cassie is helping us and has ⁓ created these experiences and opportunities for our participants and in hand experiences for the general public. when we start to see indigenous people being hired into ⁓ guiding or instructing roles.
speaker-0: Like beautifully said. That was awesome. ⁓ and all I could think about ⁓ was something that you'd said earlier in the episode about working with groups that are mission aligned. ⁓ and all of the products of the efforts here in getting new people certified to teach snowboarding, ⁓ is obviously, you know, our mission. S ⁓ but then you're taking it it one step further, which I think is Really amazing and I think wise this this partnership is working really well and we're stoked on it. So I guess furthering our talk about partnership, what kind of d doors is this opening? I guess short term but also long term?
speaker-1: I think in the short term I mentioned earlier the group that went through the Cassie programming really learned a lot not only about instructing snowboarding but how to show up, you know, professionally in the outdoor industry in a way that they hadn't experienced before. So I think in the short term it's like gaining that confidence that okay, I have the tools and the skills to pursue a job in this field. and then I think those longer term impacts are yeah, visibility of Indigenous folks in these leadership positions for youth to see and then ⁓ be inspired to take courses on their own to work in the industry. It's sharing ⁓ indigenous knowledge and ways of being in the outdoor industry as leaders in the industry. and it's getting indigenous people ultimately back on to the land and being invited back onto the land after, you know, a history of of being not invited onto their land. Mm-hmm.
speaker-0: Yeah, that's really cool. And I like the way that you explained that because I know that impact is one of your core values ⁓ and something that you're you're working towards within your programming. So it's it's neat to see the stories sort of come together in that way. And again, like I said earlier in the episode, just to be a small drop in the bucket ⁓ towards that impact is a really cool thing. ⁓ we've talked a lot about skiing and snowboarding. on the episode, but I know that your programming extends far beyond the winter season. So I thought I'd give you the opportunity to talk a little bit about other programming that you're doing and, you know, how that differs from snowboarding in terms of its impact on your community.
speaker-1: Yeah, we run a lot of different programming throughout the year. Rob, you and I talked about earlier, it seems like every season we have ⁓ programming running. So there's not really a big break in the year. but we see so we are grant funded primarily. it's grants and donations. And so depending on the funding, that can impact what programming we run throughout the year. But our kind of core programming is that backcountry programming. ⁓ skiing and snowboarding in resort in the winter. ⁓ sometime we do snowshoeing, ⁓ if the year allows. And then in the spring, summer, and fall, we're doing mountain biking, trail running, hiking, rock climbing. We did some sailing last year. one of our board members is a big sailor and she said, We need to get indigenous folks on the water. So ⁓ some more water based activities. ⁓ Yeah, we have a pretty diverse portfolio of activities proposed to do. ⁓ we also want to create some more accessibility. We recognize that a lot of the sports we do are kind of extreme and not accessible to everyone. So making sure we have like a walking program, we have a beating program where people can just come together and gather indoors. So Indigenous women indoors for for some of those events. ⁓ but yeah, we we definitely have a a diverse portfolio throughout the year.
speaker-0: Yeah, we were speaking a little bit ⁓ offline about how our off season and snowboarding allows us to plan for the the on season. ⁓ but it seems like you would always be doing both, which would must be exhausting. So you mentioned accessibility ⁓ to these sports as being a bit of a barrier, especially being grant funded, I would imagine. Do you get gear ⁓ donations, do you have outlets for that? Like what are some ways that people can get involved to support your cause? Cause is probably not the right way.
speaker-1: I mean, there's lots that can be done. I think we talked a lot about that invitation and what does that invitation look like. And sometimes that is in the form of providing gear. ⁓ so partners who can provide, you know, runners or running vests for a running program, for example, or harnesses for a climbing program. ⁓ for skiing it might be providing passes so that folks can go up. So yeah, gear is is is a big one. Donations and funding so that we can pay our program leads and volunteers, get an honorario when we can. ⁓ we want to be able to support ⁓ the folks who are helping us as much as possible. I think ⁓ talking about Indigenous women outdoors and understanding the importance of celebrating Indigenous culture and inviting it into the outdoor space and making the connection to land stewardship, ⁓ to, you know, decolonizing sport, which I we don't have to get into today, but there's a lot of conversation about what it means to decolonize sport. And I think when you're thinking about the perspectives of indigenous folks, you really start to paint that picture. So I think ⁓ you know, folks can kind of take some time to think about this and be critical about how they use the land and who's able to share the land with them. So yeah, I think a lot of different ways to be involved in support it. I don't know if there's a tangent there.
speaker-0: No, tangents are welcome. That's what the podcast is all about. And ⁓ you said something there that was kind of impactful, which was talking about it, right? ⁓ I'm stoked that we got to talk about it today. ⁓ we're using this platform to communicate the voice a little bit more. What are some channels that people can check out to, you know, extend their own research and be able to talk about it in, you know, within their own community?
speaker-1: I mean, I think following us on Instagram, we're not just posting about our programming. We're sharing links to ⁓ other folks' channels ⁓ on social media, ⁓ places where you can kind of get some education. ⁓ and I think, you know, talk just talk to your indigenous friends, reach out to the communities and and take advantage of the opportunities you have to learn. Sandy, is there anything else you want to add in terms of like where can folks start to have these conversations and be a little more critical about where they're at?
speaker-2: is direct people to the cultural centers because yeah, you can talk to your indigenous friends, but sometimes they don't want to talk about this. And that's what what these museums are for and the cultural centers are for is you you to go and ask these questions and it's in a safe, comfortable environment. You're not you know, like it's I love going to the the cultural center in Whistler. Like I learned something new about my own history every day that I go there. So it's it's pretty cool. You can usually find like books in those cultural centers, ⁓ sometimes written by the locals. I'm actually staring at one right now. I don't know why it's sitting here, but it's called the Intocman calendar. And it it really teaches us about the plants that we used. And I got this at the Squamishwa Cultural Center, so I don't know why it's just sitting there.
speaker-0: Well, that's amazing. Thanks for sharing those outlets that people can further their own education. I think that that's really important ⁓ in the grand scheme of the conversation. So what's next for IWO over the summer, into the coming seasons? ⁓ I don't know, choose your own adventure on this question, I guess.
speaker-1: Yeah, I think again, you and I talked maybe a little bit about this offline, but you know, I think for myself, I've been in the role of executive director for just over a year and we saw a lot of change within the organization throughout that year, just having someone available full time to kind of help support and and guide and and make sure our foundation is is really is really solid. ⁓ so I think what's next is making sure that our programming remains like that we're still hitting all the marks that we wanna hit in terms of our mission and making sure that it's still culturally relevant and culturally safe ⁓ and that the activities make sense for the group that we are. I think we get approached with so many different types of programming and activities and we just want to make sure that we're ensuring that it's still culturally grounded, whatever activity that we're doing. And yeah like Sandy and said, there's more and more folks who want to join IWO. And I think what's next is just making sure we can sustain that growth and sustain the the support that we do give to our participants because we want to make sure if they're interested in becoming leaders that that we can provide them with some training ⁓ and resources to kind of thrive in the outdoor industry the way that they'd like to. so I feel like Yeah, that's what's next. It's just thinking sustainably about how we keep growing and connecting folks and creating community. Sandy, I know if you have any big bold ideas for what's next.
speaker-2: Just ⁓ I feel like this this summer we're continuing the programming that we we've done all the time. Like we're part of the Arcterics Academy and we've got our mountain biking and our trail running and marathons and things like that, like just continuing on with that and not really expanding into any new sports. I I don't think we're ready. I think we need to to figure out how to sustainably run the ⁓ the core sports that we have.
speaker-1: Agree.
speaker-0: Nice. Well keep doing what you're doing because it's awesome. Summer solstice comes on Sunday. ⁓ so enjoy the changing of the seasons. I know I'm enjoying digging into summer sports and everything that goes with that. ⁓ it's a really beautiful thing. Thanks so much for coming on and and sharing about your organization and your community and having a conversation with me and our broader audience within Cassie. ⁓ That was really special. So I really appreciate the time that you took to do that with me here today. To our listeners, thanks again for tuning in to another episode of Dropping Next. Be sure to jump on Instagram and follow Indigenous Women Outdoors. They're pretty easy to find. And like we talked about on the episode, you'll know right away when you see their graphics on their posts and all the information they're sharing. So be sure to do that. That's your first step. And be sure to jump on and leave us a review on the episode or on the show in general. We would love to hear from you as we continue to grow this thing. And if you have topics you want us to discuss, guests you want us to check out and have a chat with, email us at podcast at Cassie-ACMS dot com. ⁓ Ayana and Sandy, thank you again. Thank you so much for coming on. And to the listeners, we'll see you in two weeks for our next episode.
speaker-1: Thank you.
