00:00:00
Speaker 1: So there's been lots of rugby played this year already, the Bulls, the Sharks, Stormers, everybody has been in action playing against them each other in European competition. But the big, big excitement for me, at least anyway of a rugby season is of course, when the Springboks get into action. We're way awful. Though there's some huge fixtures this year. I managed to get a ticket for the game at Ellis Park against England on July four and I simply cannot wait for that. But in the build up, Springbok coach Rassia Rasmas is doing something he's been doing, I think for a number of years now. He's called up a footy man squad for what is called an alignment camp. This is the second of these this year. There are ten and cap players in the squad. But what exactly happens at an alignment camp and crucially, what does this say about the style and philosophy of our incredibly successful coaching team, because that's what they are, very much a team. Matthew Pierce, rugby commentator, barely needs introduction. He has been behind the mic for so many absolutely memorable Springbok games and I would imagine some that he'd rather forget because that's the nature of rugby and being a commentator. Matthew, very good afternoon to you and thanks for giving us your time on seven oh two Drive. I understand the alignment camp. There's not a lot of actual playing rugby. It's there's other stuff going on. What exactly, Good afternoon.
00:01:27
Speaker 2: Good afternoon, Johnny, Thanks for having me. Yeah, you're quite right. There's not a lot of rugby that goes on. There is some fitness testing, but it is mainly, as the name would suggest, an opportunity to align around various things, including playing strategy without necessarily implementing that on the field. This camp is taking place next week, but remember that, you know a number of these players are still going to be involved in the RC playoff matches less than two weeks after this camp, so on field action is severely restricted if they do any at all. There's generally some fitness testing that does go on just to establish where certain players are at, but it's also an opportunity, as we're seeing in the naming of this alignment camp squad, to introduce those who have shown the ability to be selected perhaps in the future to get them involved inside the Springbok culture and environments so that when they are ultimately selected, nothing comes as too much of a big surprise, and that they feel that they are part of the family, so to speak. So we've seen a number of players in the past who have only attended one alignment camp or possibly two, and they still remain firmly on the radar. But I do see these camps as an opportunity to bring certain players who've caught the eye during recent weeks and months into the Springbok environment to get them used to what might lie ahead of them.
00:03:10
Speaker 1: It's a really interesting idea and it's been done for I think a while now. I mean, has it paid dividends. You have regular conversations whether you're traveling or the box or at home, and you have an opportunity to chat to leadership in the coaching camp. I mean, do they give examples of you know, this young player came in maybe a bit reserved or whatever, and we did this and it worked.
00:03:36
Speaker 2: I think the more valuable feedback John is from the players themselves. I've done a number of I've had a number of conversations with players who have gone on to become Springboks. Who found their first alignment camp absolutely invaluable, so that they weren't afraid to speak out, to express an opinion, to offer some tactic insight. Whereas had they come in fresh, never having been in that environment, and they were brought into a squad a week or two prior to a test match. Is that propensity for them not to feel particularly at home or comfortable when they come into the squad, but the fact that they've been exposed to how the Springbok environment environment operates. For example, these these camps, they would have the management telling all the team about the logistics for the entire year, so that when they traveled to Baltimore for the fourth Test against New Zealand, this is when they are going to travel, It's how they're going to travel. Then they're going to move on to Australia and not come back to Sary. It's just getting everybody in sync with what the logistics and the planning behind the Springbok season involves.
00:04:58
Speaker 1: I'm just looking at some of the names and you know obviously Kurtlee, Arens, Edward Vanamarva, Grant Williams. Amongst the backs. For example, people who are well established Andrei Pollard, of course, is a veteran with significant years of playing in the Green and Gold for him. And then there are very young players. I mean there's Riley Norton who's just captained the under twenty team to win in their equivalent of the Rugby Championship. There's hush Impede who won World Under twenty, also playing with Riley Norton. Is there any conscious that you know of kind of putting together younger players with older players, either in the rooms they share or anything like that, or do they just kind of let it be and see what happens.
00:05:48
Speaker 2: No, that is exactly it's allowing the likes of a Riley Norton. Look at Secon tel or Ciaya, who is just doing some wonderful things at the Sharks, but still under twenty, Yaker Williams who did so well last year with the under twenties. It is very much about giving these players an opportunity to be in the same room, to acknowledge that they are on the cusp of potentially becoming Springbox, if not this year, maybe beyond. But it's also John looking way beyond twenty twenty seven Rugby World Cup to throw a stattude which I love you know. The last couple of international seasons since winning the Rugby World Cup in France, the Springbox have used fifty players or more in both twenty twenty four and twenty twenty five and won twelve out of fourteen test matches in one year and eleven out of thirteen and another retained their number one ranking in World rugby but using over fifty players a year. Now, if you think that some players are going to get capped for the first time this year, which I strongly suspect they might, you could be in a situation where going into a World Cup next year, you've had fifty seven or possibly fifty eight different players capped in test rugby for South Africa in the three years subsequent to defending their title in France, and of those fifty seven or fifty eight, you can only take thirty three to a Rugby World Cup. So by definition you're going to have fifteen or sixteen cap spring Box who don't make the World Cup squad, but who need to be prepared for a call up in the event of an injury. And looking beyond that, you've suddenly got a group of players where when there will be no doubt in exodus following next year's Rugby World Cup of very experienced players. You've now got this cohort of players who've all been exposed to test rugby on the field, but more broadly the Springbok environment, so that going from twenty seven to thirty one, you're not starting from scratch. You've given this younger cohort of players a real and meaningful exposure to what Spring what Gragby really is.
00:08:11
Speaker 1: Matthew, how personal does it get? And I'll tell you what I mean by that. I mean, obviously, these are players, and their ability to function as individuals but as members of a team and a squad is crucial. But they also just like the rest of us humans, they're falling in and out of love. They've got families that are stable or not. Does the coaching team use this as an opportunity to also get to know individuals so that if somebody's not quite who acting the way they expect them to act, they've got a couple of reference points to maybe ask some decent questions.
00:08:47
Speaker 2: Certainly, but they will also be monitoring individuals response within a group environment. Okay, So Jacques y Nobert used to talk about this a lot he said, we pick the right people, not necessarily the best people. And I think if you look, if you look at the pipeline of talent available to South African rugby with our school system and Vasty Cup and the USC franchises and under twenty three competition, there are a large number of players who have the requisite skill to play a position. So what is going to differentiate somebody who's perhaps perhaps equal on skill level. It's their ability to put their personal ambition aside for the good of the collective, to do the extras in preparing their teammates to face a particular opponent, to put disappointment to one side, to show the kind of work ethic that is expected in the environment. You pick up these things quite quickly and quite easily. Around attitude. And bear in mind as well, John, you know, none of the players who are applying their trade outside of South Africa at the moment, so those based in Japan and in the English Premiership, and so none of those players are included in this particular alignment camp. They will have another online alignment camp before ultimately the squad is selected for those first test matches that come up in July against the England Scotland and Wales, and of course the game against the Barbarians, and that game against the Barbarians happens on the same day as the RC final, so there could be a number of players not available to play for the spring Box that day against against the Barbarians. So it's an opportunity to get everyone into an environment seniors, juniors, those who have built their test caps in the last couple of years since the World Cup, and to see how they interact and what the best combination ultimately is going to look like.
00:11:10
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Fascinating stuff with Matthew Pierce. I mean often when we reflect on the success of the Springboks, there are people who say, well, you know, can't we learn from the way they go about things and see if we can, you know, do better in the areas where we work, in the areas of our country that we're trying to fix, change and grow. So, I don't know, did you hear anything in that alignment camp that Matthew Piers detailed so well for us that makes you think maybe we should try that, or perhaps you're already doing that or something similar. Give us a call either way. On seven two seven oh two one seven oh two
Speaker 1: So there's been lots of rugby played this year already, the Bulls, the Sharks, Stormers, everybody has been in action playing against them each other in European competition. But the big, big excitement for me, at least anyway of a rugby season is of course, when the Springboks get into action. We're way awful. Though there's some huge fixtures this year. I managed to get a ticket for the game at Ellis Park against England on July four and I simply cannot wait for that. But in the build up, Springbok coach Rassia Rasmas is doing something he's been doing, I think for a number of years now. He's called up a footy man squad for what is called an alignment camp. This is the second of these this year. There are ten and cap players in the squad. But what exactly happens at an alignment camp and crucially, what does this say about the style and philosophy of our incredibly successful coaching team, because that's what they are, very much a team. Matthew Pierce, rugby commentator, barely needs introduction. He has been behind the mic for so many absolutely memorable Springbok games and I would imagine some that he'd rather forget because that's the nature of rugby and being a commentator. Matthew, very good afternoon to you and thanks for giving us your time on seven oh two Drive. I understand the alignment camp. There's not a lot of actual playing rugby. It's there's other stuff going on. What exactly, Good afternoon.
00:01:27
Speaker 2: Good afternoon, Johnny, Thanks for having me. Yeah, you're quite right. There's not a lot of rugby that goes on. There is some fitness testing, but it is mainly, as the name would suggest, an opportunity to align around various things, including playing strategy without necessarily implementing that on the field. This camp is taking place next week, but remember that, you know a number of these players are still going to be involved in the RC playoff matches less than two weeks after this camp, so on field action is severely restricted if they do any at all. There's generally some fitness testing that does go on just to establish where certain players are at, but it's also an opportunity, as we're seeing in the naming of this alignment camp squad, to introduce those who have shown the ability to be selected perhaps in the future to get them involved inside the Springbok culture and environments so that when they are ultimately selected, nothing comes as too much of a big surprise, and that they feel that they are part of the family, so to speak. So we've seen a number of players in the past who have only attended one alignment camp or possibly two, and they still remain firmly on the radar. But I do see these camps as an opportunity to bring certain players who've caught the eye during recent weeks and months into the Springbok environment to get them used to what might lie ahead of them.
00:03:10
Speaker 1: It's a really interesting idea and it's been done for I think a while now. I mean, has it paid dividends. You have regular conversations whether you're traveling or the box or at home, and you have an opportunity to chat to leadership in the coaching camp. I mean, do they give examples of you know, this young player came in maybe a bit reserved or whatever, and we did this and it worked.
00:03:36
Speaker 2: I think the more valuable feedback John is from the players themselves. I've done a number of I've had a number of conversations with players who have gone on to become Springboks. Who found their first alignment camp absolutely invaluable, so that they weren't afraid to speak out, to express an opinion, to offer some tactic insight. Whereas had they come in fresh, never having been in that environment, and they were brought into a squad a week or two prior to a test match. Is that propensity for them not to feel particularly at home or comfortable when they come into the squad, but the fact that they've been exposed to how the Springbok environment environment operates. For example, these these camps, they would have the management telling all the team about the logistics for the entire year, so that when they traveled to Baltimore for the fourth Test against New Zealand, this is when they are going to travel, It's how they're going to travel. Then they're going to move on to Australia and not come back to Sary. It's just getting everybody in sync with what the logistics and the planning behind the Springbok season involves.
00:04:58
Speaker 1: I'm just looking at some of the names and you know obviously Kurtlee, Arens, Edward Vanamarva, Grant Williams. Amongst the backs. For example, people who are well established Andrei Pollard, of course, is a veteran with significant years of playing in the Green and Gold for him. And then there are very young players. I mean there's Riley Norton who's just captained the under twenty team to win in their equivalent of the Rugby Championship. There's hush Impede who won World Under twenty, also playing with Riley Norton. Is there any conscious that you know of kind of putting together younger players with older players, either in the rooms they share or anything like that, or do they just kind of let it be and see what happens.
00:05:48
Speaker 2: No, that is exactly it's allowing the likes of a Riley Norton. Look at Secon tel or Ciaya, who is just doing some wonderful things at the Sharks, but still under twenty, Yaker Williams who did so well last year with the under twenties. It is very much about giving these players an opportunity to be in the same room, to acknowledge that they are on the cusp of potentially becoming Springbox, if not this year, maybe beyond. But it's also John looking way beyond twenty twenty seven Rugby World Cup to throw a stattude which I love you know. The last couple of international seasons since winning the Rugby World Cup in France, the Springbox have used fifty players or more in both twenty twenty four and twenty twenty five and won twelve out of fourteen test matches in one year and eleven out of thirteen and another retained their number one ranking in World rugby but using over fifty players a year. Now, if you think that some players are going to get capped for the first time this year, which I strongly suspect they might, you could be in a situation where going into a World Cup next year, you've had fifty seven or possibly fifty eight different players capped in test rugby for South Africa in the three years subsequent to defending their title in France, and of those fifty seven or fifty eight, you can only take thirty three to a Rugby World Cup. So by definition you're going to have fifteen or sixteen cap spring Box who don't make the World Cup squad, but who need to be prepared for a call up in the event of an injury. And looking beyond that, you've suddenly got a group of players where when there will be no doubt in exodus following next year's Rugby World Cup of very experienced players. You've now got this cohort of players who've all been exposed to test rugby on the field, but more broadly the Springbok environment, so that going from twenty seven to thirty one, you're not starting from scratch. You've given this younger cohort of players a real and meaningful exposure to what Spring what Gragby really is.
00:08:11
Speaker 1: Matthew, how personal does it get? And I'll tell you what I mean by that. I mean, obviously, these are players, and their ability to function as individuals but as members of a team and a squad is crucial. But they also just like the rest of us humans, they're falling in and out of love. They've got families that are stable or not. Does the coaching team use this as an opportunity to also get to know individuals so that if somebody's not quite who acting the way they expect them to act, they've got a couple of reference points to maybe ask some decent questions.
00:08:47
Speaker 2: Certainly, but they will also be monitoring individuals response within a group environment. Okay, So Jacques y Nobert used to talk about this a lot he said, we pick the right people, not necessarily the best people. And I think if you look, if you look at the pipeline of talent available to South African rugby with our school system and Vasty Cup and the USC franchises and under twenty three competition, there are a large number of players who have the requisite skill to play a position. So what is going to differentiate somebody who's perhaps perhaps equal on skill level. It's their ability to put their personal ambition aside for the good of the collective, to do the extras in preparing their teammates to face a particular opponent, to put disappointment to one side, to show the kind of work ethic that is expected in the environment. You pick up these things quite quickly and quite easily. Around attitude. And bear in mind as well, John, you know, none of the players who are applying their trade outside of South Africa at the moment, so those based in Japan and in the English Premiership, and so none of those players are included in this particular alignment camp. They will have another online alignment camp before ultimately the squad is selected for those first test matches that come up in July against the England Scotland and Wales, and of course the game against the Barbarians, and that game against the Barbarians happens on the same day as the RC final, so there could be a number of players not available to play for the spring Box that day against against the Barbarians. So it's an opportunity to get everyone into an environment seniors, juniors, those who have built their test caps in the last couple of years since the World Cup, and to see how they interact and what the best combination ultimately is going to look like.
00:11:10
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Fascinating stuff with Matthew Pierce. I mean often when we reflect on the success of the Springboks, there are people who say, well, you know, can't we learn from the way they go about things and see if we can, you know, do better in the areas where we work, in the areas of our country that we're trying to fix, change and grow. So, I don't know, did you hear anything in that alignment camp that Matthew Piers detailed so well for us that makes you think maybe we should try that, or perhaps you're already doing that or something similar. Give us a call either way. On seven two seven oh two one seven oh two
