Finding Purpose Through Small Town Service

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[00:00:00] Scott DeLuzio: Leaving the military can be a tough transition. You might be carrying physical pain, survivor’s guilt, and wondering where your skills fit now that you’re out. The question becomes: What’s next for me? Where do you belong, and how do you keep moving forward? Our guest today, Dwight Boddorf’s story, is one of finding that answer the hard way.

[00:00:19] He went from being homeless at 16 to joining the Marine Corps, surviving a roadside bomb in Iraq, and living with years of lasting physical pain. After his service, he spent nearly a decade helping other veterans navigate benefits before stepping into local government. Along the way, he discovered that the same skills used in combat can make a real difference in small-town leadership.

[00:00:40] That experience eventually led him to write The Municipal Battlefield, a guide shaped by the real challenges leaders face during late-night emergencies. This episode is about surviving injury, finding purpose again, and realizing that even when things feel uncertain after the military, you still have a place and a mission.

[00:00:59] Before we begin, I [00:01:00] want to take a moment to raise awareness for something deeply important to our community, the Global War on Terrorism Memorial Foundation. This organization is working to build a permanent national memorial in Washington, D.C. to honor the service members, families, and civilians impacted by the global war on terrorism.

[00:01:19] This memorial will be both a tribute to those who served and a way to ensure their sacrifices are recognized and remembered for generations to come. If you want to learn more or find out how you can support the mission, visit GWOTmemorialfoundation.org.

[00:01:34]

[00:01:47] Scott DeLuzio: Hey, Dwight. Welcome to the show. Really glad to have you here

[00:01:50] Dwight Boddorf: Thank you for having me. I’m, I’m looking forward to talking with you

[00:01:53] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, absolutely. ~Um, ~yeah, like we were talking a little bit before we started recording here and, ~um, ~you know, we have a lot to talk about, I’m sure, and we’ll, we’ll get [00:02:00] into, ~uh, ~the conversation in just a minute here. But before we do, could you, for the guests who… Or sorry, for the listeners who don’t know you and, and your background, ~uh, ~could you just give us a quick, quick, ~uh, ~rundown on, on who you are and, and who we’re talking to here?

[00:02:13] Dwight Boddorf: Yeah, I’d be happy to. ~Uh, ~my name is Dwight Boddorf So I live in the greater Pittsburgh area in Pennsylvania. I’m a Marine Corps veteran, served in Operation Iraqi Freedom. I was wounded pretty severely with a roadside bomb, so life didn’t quite pan out the way that I had planned. ~uh, ~pivoted from there, worked with veterans for a number of years, ~um, ~in government and non-government roles until it led me to my kinda current calling, which is municipal government. you know, I’ve lived in the Pennsylvania area most of my life except for when I was in the military, ~um, ~serving with 2nd Light Armored Reconnaissance out of North Carolina. I am a Stanford Hoover veteran fellow, where I’m focusing on figuring out pathways for service members who are [00:03:00] transitioning out of the service to get into local government roles, and a recently published author of “The Municipal Battlefield.”

[00:03:05] Scott DeLuzio: So you got a, a lot of plates that you’re spinning, and it seems like you, you have a lot, lot going on there. But, ~um, ~you know, let, let’s take it maybe a, a step back before you, you joined the M- the Marine Corps. ~Um, ~you know, what was life like then? What, what kind of led you to the Marine Corps, all that kind of stuff?

[00:03:22] Dwight Boddorf: ~Um, ~by happenstance certainly. ~Um, ~so my childhood was a little bit, ~um, ~unstable. You know, we, we moved around a lot. ~Uh, ~I ended up m- about half of my life, ~um, ~living with various relatives, things like that, grandma and grandpa.

[00:03:36] Scott DeLuzio: Hmm

[00:03:37] Dwight Boddorf: at the age of 16, ~uh, ~I became homeless, so I bounced around till I was 16, 17, graduated from high school, and the Marines came calling. ~Um, ~I’d actually thought I was gonna go to the Army first. That’s where I went to sign up, and the Marine recruiter called me and said, “Hey, you don’t wanna go there. We’ll give you a $50,000 bonus to come to the Marines.” And I was like, So that’s how I got into the Marine [00:04:00] Corps. ~Um, ~I was, you know, young, didn’t really know anything.

[00:04:02] I didn’t know what to research. I didn’t know what to look for, and I’m like, “Hey, you know, whatever sounds great, me up, you know. We’ll

[00:04:08] Scott DeLuzio: Sure

[00:04:09] Dwight Boddorf: Ended up in light armored reconnaissance, and that’s kind of how all of that happened. So it really wasn’t a plan per se other than military something, just because for me it was a way out and a way to make sure that I had opportunities that I wouldn’t otherwise had, had I stayed in, ~um, ~my cur- my current situation

[00:04:27] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And, ~uh, ~as a fellow infantry guy, I, I went Army, but, you know, that, as a fellow infantry guy, I g- I, I can probably attest to the fact that you, ~uh, ~probably weren’t expecting all the, ~uh, uh,~ the amount of time that you spent living outside in, you know, ~uh, ~you know, field exercises and, you know, deployments and stuff like that.

[00:04:49] Probably mirrored some of that homelessness, ~uh, ~situation that you mighta had,

[00:04:52] Dwight Boddorf: I was pretty

[00:04:53] Scott DeLuzio: going on.

[00:04:54] Dwight Boddorf: to it. ~Um, ~I, I will

[00:04:55] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah

[00:04:55] Dwight Boddorf: the thing that really surprised me the most is I think I never ate breakfast in the entire [00:05:00] Marine Corps when I was stationed in Camp Lejeune probably more than four or five times. You know, it was PT, there was training, there was… It there just simply didn’t exist

[00:05:09] Scott DeLuzio: Sure. Yeah, and, ~uh, ~so it’s, ~uh, ~it just, you know, a, a new world and, and a lot of new stuff, ~uh, ~for you. But, you know, it probably, I, I would imagine, ~uh, ~you know, looking back at it now, ~uh, ~you probably learned a bunch of, of stuff about yourself, about, you know, life in general from your experience as a teenager, and then moving into the Marine Corps and kind of applying, applying those things and getting them, ~uh, ~kind of melded together, right?

[00:05:35] Dwight Boddorf: Oh, yeah. ~Um, ~things that I think looking back probably impacted me more than I realized, you know, as, as a teen.

[00:05:42] there’s a lot of lessons that they instill in you that you might not really realize what they’re doing, but it carries throughout your life. you know, y- you see a lot of other veterans joke about certain things that you can tell when somebody else is a veteran, you know, when they arrive early, the way that they’re dressed, some of

[00:05:58] Scott DeLuzio: Sure

[00:05:58] Dwight Boddorf: I- it’s [00:06:00] true. They, they kind of beat those into you. ~Um, ~but there’s other things, right? You know, you learn how to work in a team. They give you some sort of skill set. They give you, ~uh, ~framework for things that you really wouldn’t otherwise think about, things that I’m still applying today in my job, that I’ve carried with me since the Marine Corps, and we can, you know, kind of get into that a little bit later.

[00:06:21] But it absolutely, for me, it was, ~um, ~life-changing in ways that I expected, but in a lot of ways that I didn’t expect. ~Um, ~coming from my background and providing me with a sense of bigger, stability, friendship, ~um, ~a place to sleep, things to eat, you know, it, it was a transformational time for me.

[00:06:40] ~Um, ~I had planned on making that my career

[00:06:43] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, absolutely. And then you had mentioned, ~uh, ~you know, surviving an IED attack in, when you were in Iraq, and, you know, left you with a bunch of injuries and, and things like that. ~Um, ~tell us about kinda what happened there and, and what, how that affected you going forward. [00:07:00] What was, you know, maybe going through your mind during that time period?

[00:07:02] You know, w- were you able to finish your tour, ~uh, ~or, you know, what happened there?

[00:07:06] Dwight Boddorf: Yeah. So, ~um, ~I was only th- three months in, in, ~um, ~the Al Anbar province, which is kind of northwestern part of Iraq. so we were on a river sweeping operation, roadside bomb hit, ~um, ~killed two of my fellow Marines instantly, the rest of us. ~Um, ~I had some pretty serious, ~um, ~spinal damage, muscle damage, ~um, ~skull fracture, trauma-ti- TBI, all of those things.

[00:07:31] ~Um, ~so I was medevaced to Al Asad, where I spent about a good, I don’t know, month at Al Asad recovering. ~Um, ~from there, I actually went back to my unit and finished out my tour. ~Um, ~you know, I was in a little bit of pain, but I was in otherwise pretty good shape. I was 19. It was in the best shape of my life, you know.

[00:07:49] Hey, I just survived a bomb. ~Um,~

[00:07:51] I was like, you know, “I’m, I’m walking, things are good. It’s a little bit of back pain, I’ll be all right,” right? ~Um, ~so I finished out my tour, but the pain kept getting worse and worse and worse. And [00:08:00] by the time that I went back stateside, ~um, ~it got to the point that, you know, I had to go to the emergency room. and kind of like looking at me trying to figure out what’s wrong with you, and you explain to them this thing that just happened overseas, and they’re like, “Oh, that’s not normal. ~Um, ~let’s run some scans.” And so, ~um, ~story short, turns out I have some, ~um, ~serious nerve damage and, and muscle damage itself.

[00:08:21] So the force of the bomb physically forever altered some of my nerves and muscles, ~um, ~things that I’m still dealing with today that I’ve had to adapt my life with. As a matter of fact, I actually just had a, ~um, ~cervical rhizotomy yesterday on my C5, 6, and 7, and I will be back for my left side next week.

[00:08:39] And I have to get these done, six times a year just so that I can function. Otherwise, it would be constant pain management or like a internal pain pump. And it took

[00:08:51] Scott DeLuzio: Wow

[00:08:51] Dwight Boddorf: years and years and years and years to figure out how to even get to a point where the were, ~um, ~the [00:09:00] best thing for me.

[00:09:00] You know, I’ve tried every type of physical therapy and pain management and medication and, ~uh, ~self-reflection that you could think of. ~Um, ~and unfortunately, that doesn’t always but

[00:09:11] Scott DeLuzio: Right

[00:09:12] Dwight Boddorf: you have to keep going one day at a time and, and find something that does work, and that’s kind of where I’m at now. but it does impact me every day, ~um, ~in my work and my home life and things like that.

[00:09:22] ~Um, ~it’s, it has been a journey. This year will be 20 years, ~uh, ~on October 4th, after the, the bomb, and it’s, ~um, ~things that I still carry with me, not just physically, but, ~uh, ~emotionally and mentally as well, the, the service members and friends that I lost.

[00:09:36] Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.

[00:09:36] Dwight Boddorf: ~Um, ~and you know, and how do you best live your life honoring those who didn’t make it?

[00:09:43] You know, that’s kind of been a, a driving force as well.

[00:09:47] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, and that’s something I think a lot of veterans deal with, especially who’ve experienced something like you did. ~Um, ~you know, a lot of, lot of stuff going through their mind about the folks that they lost or the [00:10:00] experiences, ~uh, ~that, you know, could’ve gone one way or another if something else happened.

[00:10:06] And, you know, there’s a lot of what-ifs and, and all that kind of stuff, and I don’t think that those what-ifs are necessarily helpful. ~Uh, ~you know, they, they’re… You can just keep what-iffing the whole situation, but it doesn’t change anything really. And so, you know, we do that a lot to ourselves. I know I, I’ve done that to myself with stuff I’ve experienced.

[00:10:27] ~Um, ~I’m, I’m sure, you know, other, other folks have too. And, you know, ~uh, ~when, when you’re dealing with these things, you, you have to look at it like, “Okay, that happened. I can’t change it. What, what’s the next best thing that I can do going forward? How do I make the best of a bad situation?” And, ~um, ~you know, it’s not always easy when your, your brain is in that fog and, you know, you’re, you’re not really thinking 100% clearly.

[00:10:52] ~Um, ~and sometimes that, that fog lasts for a really long time. And, ~um, ~you know, but it’s, you kinda have to just keep reminding yourself, like, “What is that next [00:11:00] best thing? How do I make the best of whatever the situation is?” ~Um, ~but even, even, you know, after coming back home, after leaving the military, you know, just, you’re, you’re now dropped into a new world almost.

[00:11:15] You know, you’re struggling with, you know, your, your identity, your pur- sense of purpose, ~uh, ~figuring out what comes next as far as maybe a job or education or, or things like that. ~Um, ~in, in your case, what was your transition like? And w- and, like, where did you find your next mission?

[00:11:31] Dwight Boddorf: ~Um, ~I keep having a series of, like, happy accidents, I guess. ~Um, ~so I, you know, after that experience and after transitioning out, ~um, ~you know, kinda took my life plans from me, and not only that, now I’ve got all these physical disabilities and other things that I’m trying to deal with. And, ~um, ~I wanted nothing to do with, ~um, ~military veterans, any of that.

[00:11:50] I’m like, “Hey, I’m gonna use my GI Bill. I’m gonna go to school. What is the furthest thing that I can get away from, from Marines and the infantry?” Elementary education. [00:12:00] So that’s what I used my GI Bill for. But while I was in school, funnily enough, ~um, ~part of the GI Bill, they have a program called VA Work Study. And, ~uh, ~I was looking for extra money, you know, I was, I was young. ~Um, ~I was getting ready to have my first child. You know, any bit of, any little bit of money helped. So I ended up doing VA Work Study, which I worked in the financial aid office at Penn State, and this right when the new GI Bill came out, the post-9/11 in 2009. So they ha- they saw this influx of veterans into the school, and they didn’t know what to do with them. They didn’t know how to handle the GI Bill and things like that. So I found myself in this situation as a veteran and one of the first students there using the new GI Bill and working there, trying to help other veterans figure it out for my job.

[00:12:46] And that, I think, helped me in many ways and led me into a career path of helping veterans. ~Um, ~I didn’t realize at the time about, like, how much I needed that other piece of talking to other [00:13:00] veterans and not shying away from it, but actually leaning into it.

[00:13:03] And that turned out to be helpful to me in so many ways, not only from a personal perspective, but also for a career. So as my injuries continued to get worse when I went through school for elementary education, ~um, ~I had a hard time doing student teaching, ~um, ~getting up and down with the third graders, kneeling beside their desk playing kickball. Things were fantastic. I loved it, but physically it was difficult for me, more than I anticipated.

[00:13:28] Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.

[00:13:28] Dwight Boddorf: ~Um, ~ so it really was not gonna be a long-term career option for me. I needed somewhere that I could probably sit and stand and move around as, as needed. Teaching wasn’t it, certainly not in elementary education. So I took the experience that I had in Veterans Affairs in higher education and actually took a Veterans Affairs job in a community college back here in Pittsburgh, and that’s really where my first career was in management in Veterans Affairs.

[00:13:54] And from there, I spent, you know, almost a decade working in various Veterans Affairs positions [00:14:00] and helping so many other veterans, but helping myself too, through the conversations, ~um, ~getting people access to higher education, VA healthcare, off the streets. We did a lot of things for homelessness, substance abuse, ~um- ~You name it, we, we did it across various things.

[00:14:19] ~Um, ~and it was just kinda one unexpected happy kinda accident after another that kinda led me to where I’m at now

[00:14:28] Scott DeLuzio: Sure, sure. And I know with, ~um, ~a lot of veterans getting out, ~uh, ~I, I forget what the exact numbers are, but I think within two years of, ~uh, ~getting out of the military, ~uh, ~about 80% of veterans have, ~uh, ~already moved on to another job for whatever job they, they moved on from, ~uh, ~after the military. They’re, they’re already on their second, maybe even more jobs, ~uh, ~something like that.

[00:14:51] It’s, it’s, it was a high number. It, I forget exactly the, the numbers. But whatever it is, the, you know, it doesn’t matter. It’s, ~um, ~it- the, the point is [00:15:00] that so many people get out not knowing what they’re, they’re gonna do with their lives, not having a, a good plan or, or getting into something that they absolutely hate and they’re like, “I can’t even stand this for, you know, a year or two.”

[00:15:13] ~Um, ~and so they, they leave and they go find something else. And, you know, I don’t know where those numbers, ~uh, ~you know, go to as far as, like, job hun- ~uh, ~hopping, going, going down the, the road. But, ~um, ~you know, in years three, four, five, six, you know, how, how many people f- finally land on something that they actually like.

[00:15:30] Dwight Boddorf: Yeah

[00:15:30] Scott DeLuzio: but something that you said is, ~uh, ~kinda important to think about is, you know, continuing to serve in a way, ~uh, ~you know, serving your fellow veterans, ~uh, ~i- is, is the thing that you found. And, you know, it doesn’t necessarily have to be at the VA or even a nonprofit that works with veterans. It could be serving in another way, serving your community, serving, you know, something that’s important to i- that individual, finding something that they can give back to and, and help improve.

[00:15:59] You [00:16:00] know, you know, you’re talking a little bit about, ~uh, ~municipal work and, and there’s, there’s stuff in every town and city across the country. There are programs out there that need, you know, people to, ~uh, ~to work these programs. And, you know, m- maybe it’s a veterans program. Maybe it’s a, you know, something with, ~uh, ~you know, animals or, or whatever the case may be.

[00:16:20] You know, you, you can find something somewhere along the way that, ~um, ~that is important to you and, and you feel like you’re, you’re contributing and you’re helping others, and you’re giving back in a, in a way that’s, it’s meaningful. It’s not self-serving in, in a way, you know? It’s, ~uh, ~you know, very similar to the military is it’s a big organization supporting the entire country, ~uh, ~that is, i- is a very meaningful and, and important job to have.

[00:16:46] ~Um, ~and then you just all of a sudden go into some menial nine-to-five job crunching numbers or, you know, you know, pushing papers a- you know, across a… It’s, like, kinda feels like you’re just wasting your time sometimes. And, ~um, ~not, maybe not for everybody, but some, some [00:17:00] jobs, you know, just feels like you wanna bang your head against the wall sometimes because it’s, it’s that bad.

[00:17:04] Dwight Boddorf: right. ~ Um, ~you know, I, I’ve, I’ve spoken with thousands of veterans over my career in various things, and almost– not all of them, you’re right, but a lot of them are looking for something a purpose. ~Um, ~and that could take a million different thi- you know, look a million different ways, but they still want that I’ve actually done something good and that you can tangibly see that I made a difference either in my community or my hometown or school or whatever it is, not just, you know, some arbitrary, ~um, ~paper to do a paper

[00:17:35] Scott DeLuzio: Right. Yeah, exactly. And, and so, ~um, ~you know, again, there, there’s a million different things out there that, that you can do. It’s, it’s just a matter of figuring out what is that thing for you. ~Um, ~you know, from your experience, you know, you, you said you talk with thousands of veterans, ~um, ~that, that’s probably a pretty good, ~uh, ~sample size for, ~uh, ~you know, some issues that people might be having, ~uh, ~you know, when they’re, ~uh, ~trying to navigate through the VA system, whether it’s for [00:18:00] education benefits or other, you know, types of things.

[00:18:02] Where do, where do people seem to get stuck the most, from your experience? And, and maybe what, what could be done better to help them in those situations?

[00:18:09] Dwight Boddorf: Ooh, that’s a good question. ~Um ~I’d say there’s a couple places. So They don’t always know where to go, and that kind of seems counterintuitive in today’s day and age when there’s billion different things on the internet. ~Um, ~but that’s also part of the problem, right? There’s a lot of good information, but there’s a lot of bad information out there.

[00:18:27] Everybody’s a, a veterans expert all of a sudden. You know, everybody’s a, a street lawyer for Veterans Affairs. ~Um, ~so it can be hard to figure out what’s true and what’s not true, where do you go? And then once you get there, like, who e- who helps explain it to you? Some of these things are fairly complicated. There’s a lot of steps, and if you mess up one or two of those steps, it could set you back months and/or years, in which then people get frustrated with that type of system. ~Um, ~they get disillusioned. They then opt out [00:19:00] altogether. ~Um, ~we saw this a lot with the Vietnam veterans. ~Um, ~many, many, many, many of them did not take care or did not get their benefits that they, that they had earned because they were treated so poorly.

[00:19:08] And now, you know, in their 60s, 70s, and 80s, they’re, they’re finally starting to come around to get some of those benefits that they

[00:19:15] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah

[00:19:16] Dwight Boddorf: time ago, but because they had such a bad experience with the VA and other places, they didn’t want anything to do with it. ~Um, ~younger generations are getting a little bit better.

[00:19:24] We’re getting, y- you know, a little bit more support from the VA and communities and higher education and employers. But there still needs to be, ~um… ~A lot of work has to be done to improve that. ~Um, ~a couple ways that we could fix it certainly is better coordination. There’s a lot of different moving parts in the veterans ecosystem. So in the Pittsburgh region, just for context, we, ~um, ~we have one of the largest veterans populations in, in the country. We are– Pennsylvania has the largest veterans population in the country without an active duty military installation. We have no place [00:20:00] that anchors the military and veterans community.

[00:20:03] We’re just kind of scattered to the wind. And so what

[00:20:05] happened is there was, like, 40 or 50 veterans nonprofits that all came up in the gaps there, right? And so now you’re getting out in the Pittsburgh region, and all of these places are competing against each other, and some may explain it well, some may not.

[00:20:23] So we have no place. You know, they’re, they’re not coordinating with each other. And then you throw on top of that county veterans directors, ~um, ~in Pennsylvania, the state veterans division, the federal veterans division. It’s a lot to navigate. And places don’t really talk a lot. You know, the federal VA, the state and the county occasionally, but there’s not a lot of coordination.

[00:20:45] And then if you take all three of those with the nonprofit sector and then the employment sector, there’s almost no collaboration. You’ll see a couple of pockets here, maybe an initiative here or there, but a sustained true collaboration doesn’t really [00:21:00] exist.

[00:21:00] Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.

[00:21:00] Dwight Boddorf: ~Um, ~there are several ways that that could be fixed.

[00:21:02] Some things are being worked on at the federal level or the state level, but the end of the day, like anything else, it’s gonna take a group of veterans to come together and say, “Hey, we need to fix this,” and

[00:21:12] Scott DeLuzio: Right.

[00:21:13] Dwight Boddorf: make it happen

[00:21:15] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And when, I, I, I remember getting the information for all the benefits that were available to me as I was leaving the Army, and it was like drinking from a fire hose.

[00:21:28] It, it was so much information, and this was back in 2011, ~uh, ~time, timeframe, so, ~um, ~you know, yeah, the information was probably available online somewhere, but we weren’t using the internet the way we’re using it today.

[00:21:40] ~Um, ~you know, e- even that, not, that’s not even all that long ago, but it’s still kinda crazy how we, how much more we’re using it today. ~Um, ~but it’s, it’s, ~um, ~you know, just so much information that you can only retain so much. They give you little pamphlets and flyers and all that kinda stuff that, you know, what, what do you do with those after you get home?

[00:21:58] You know, you put ’em in a drawer somewhere. You, you [00:22:00] lose ’em. You forget about ’em. They might get tossed or whatever. But y- you end up having so much information that you don’t, just don’t know what to do with it. And then once when you realize, hey, I’m, I’m kinda struggling with something, I, I need some help with something, I don’t even know where to look because I, I’ve got s- just so much information.

[00:22:19] Where, where do you even start? And so, you know, that coordination that you’re talking about, I think is, ~um, ~you know, it’s a big deal because, ~uh, ~like you said, that, you know, nonprofits might pop up and fill in some of those gaps. But, ~um, ~you know, you might have a, you know, a great idea for a nonprofit. I might have the same idea, and we’re in the same area, and we just start, start our own things, and now we’re competing against each other when really we’re trying to solve the same thing.

[00:22:41] If there was some sort of coordination, we kinda come together and maybe work together, that would be, you know, even better, and that, that’d just serve the, the interests of, of the veterans. But, you know, even on the, the government level, on the, you know, the local, state, federal levels, ~um, ~I, I’m sure there’s some overlap between what goes on with all of those organizations, too.

[00:22:59] And, and [00:23:00] so, you know, just coordinating all the resources and, and making it available to everybody in a way that’s easy to digest, ~um, ~so you know what’s available when you need it and, and maybe even have people who can ask the right questions, like, you know, “Are you, are you dealing with X, Y, or Z? Hey, the VA has a program that can help you with that.”

[00:23:21] And maybe you didn’t even know that that was a thing, but, you know, someone can maybe help

[00:23:25] Dwight Boddorf: There are a few

[00:23:26] Scott DeLuzio: you through that.

[00:23:26] Dwight Boddorf: that are, that are doing that, but it’s not, it’s not standard. So I could say like when

[00:23:30] Scott DeLuzio: Sure

[00:23:31] Dwight Boddorf: when I ran the veterans division at the local community college, we actually ended up creating like– when we would bring people in the process their GI Bill, we would go through those things and say, “Hey, like, like are you having nightmares?

[00:23:42] Are you having

[00:23:43] PT– like have you, are, have you enrolled in VA healthcare? Did you know about your VA disability? Did you know about your military unemployment?” Like we had a, a laundry list of things to go down through and ask people to help them get connected with resources and sign up, but not the norm, ~um, ~at most [00:24:00] higher education facilities. but it’s gonna take everybody across every interaction doing something like that, the VA, the employers, the healthcare sector, the education sector, all of that, because, you know, s- veterans are so dispersed throughout every-everything, right? It, that you

[00:24:20] never know where they’re gonna end up, and so you just need one touch point to kinda grab them and say, “Hey, did you know about all these things, and this is where you need to go.”

[00:24:27] But getting to the point to reach those institutions to train them on what to look for and how to administer it, and how often the VA rules and regulation changes is, is very difficult. ~Um,~

[00:24:39] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah

[00:24:39] Dwight Boddorf: it’s a, it’s a very unique problem, ~um, ~that we’re getting a little bit better at every day, and hopefully in another 50, 60 years we’ll get there.

[00:24:50] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. Well, ~um, ~you know, and it, it, it’s interesting too because you’re, you’re saying, you know, they’re, they’re, people are, you know, coming from all different walks of life [00:25:00] who are, are veterans. They, they might have all sorts of different, ~uh, ~careers, all sorts of different medical issues, all sorts of different geographies that they live in even.

[00:25:08] ~Um, ~and so they, they have so many different, ~uh, uh,~ combinations of things that, that are working with them or against them in some cases that it, it’s hard to just say, “Hey, here’s, here’s one, you know, ~uh, um, uh, ~one size fits all approach to everybody.” You know? So you, you really do have to have somebody who can understand what’s going on with this individual person, who, ~uh, ~what’s going on with, with A, B, and C, and, and make sure that we know that we’re giving them the right, ~uh, ~direction

[00:25:36] Dwight Boddorf: Yeah.

[00:25:37] Scott DeLuzio: whatever it is,

[00:25:37] you know?

[00:25:38] Dwight Boddorf: that’s, a lot of knowledge too, right? So you, you’re,

[00:25:40] Scott DeLuzio: Sure.

[00:25:41] Dwight Boddorf: talking, you know, healthcare, ~um, ~housing, ~um, ~education, ~um, ~economics. it’s, it’s very difficult to find somebody that has enough knowledge that can speak across all those domains,

[00:25:56] Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.

[00:25:57] Dwight Boddorf: but also [00:26:00] pay these people appropriately.

[00:26:02] So there’s a

[00:26:03] Scott DeLuzio: Sure

[00:26:03] Dwight Boddorf: that, you know, the, the VSOs and the organizations, they do a really great job. A lot of them, you know, they’re d- they’re volunteering their time and they’re doing these things, but they’re, they’re part-time VSOs who maybe just focus on one slice of the pie, ~uh, ~usually disability benefits.

[00:26:18] But then when it

[00:26:19] comes to all these other things, you know, who do they turn to for those? And there’s not really a good national system. Some states have state or county level veteran service officers that are trained in all of those things. ~Um, ~but the turnover there is pretty high. Pay isn’t that great. ~Um, ~you know, ~uh, ~there are a couple national solutions on the table about making sure that every state a county veterans director, ~um, ~as part of state law, and making sure that they’re funded appropriately so that no matter where you are in the United States, you always know that whoever your county person is, there’s at least one person close to you that can point you to all these other directions. ~Um, ~you know, that would be a [00:27:00] doable fix in our lifetime.

[00:27:02] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, and a- as you were talking, I, the fix was kinda coming to me, thinking of it kind of like a, a contractor building a house or s- or something. That, you know, the, your one general contractor isn’t gonna necessarily be the plumber and the electrician and the drywall guy and, you know, the flooring, carpeting, all that kinda stuff.

[00:27:18] They’re not gonna be doing all of those things, but they coordinate with all those, those specialists who do all of those, those things. And it would be great if there was that one person that you can go to or, or, you know, one group of people, ’cause it may be a big, bigger job than m- any one person can handle.

[00:27:33] But, ~um, ~ you know, depending on the, the area. But, ~um, ~you know, if you had that one person you can go to who could then say, “Okay, ~uh, ~you need to go talk to this person for this issue, and that person and that person, and, and they’ll get you squared away,” because those are the people who are the experts on education, on disability, on, you know, all these other benefits, right?

[00:27:51] ~Um, ~and, and that would be, you know, ~uh, ~probably a, a great way to, to handle it because, you know, you get, try to get one person who’s an expert on everything, [00:28:00] and they’re gonna, they’re gonna miss on stuff.

[00:28:02] Dwight Boddorf: Oh, absolutely. Yeah

[00:28:03] Scott DeLuzio: especially with the, you said regulations changing. I didn’t even think about that at the beginning of this conversation, but they, they probably change all the time, and, you know, who’s, who has the time to keep up with all that, you

[00:28:13] Dwight Boddorf: you and I have gotten out, I mean, the G- so most people don’t realize there’s seven different versions of the GI Bill, it all depends on like when you, when you served, when you got out, and even when between you and I, there was post-9/11 GI Bill and then the Forever GI Bill, which, you know, it’s all post-9/11, but there’s a difference in your lifetime of benefits where post, post-9/11, we got 15 years.

[00:28:35] You got out after, I think, 2015, y- you get it forever. There’s no limit on your, ~um… ~So, you know, if you wanna use your GI Bill 40 years from now, you can do that, whereas if

[00:28:45] you got out in 2008 like me, you had 15 years from 2008 and that’s it. Like, the, the rules change all the time. There’s massive, ~um, ~bills going through Congress right now to have some of the most consequential veterans update [00:29:00] in ~Um,~

[00:29:00] and you know, you, you certainly have to keep up with all those things. There’s always changes for what disability is considered what percentage. There’s new programs that the states come out with. ~Um, ~there’s court cases, court rulings that determine, you know, how things are applied and may impact things retroactively.

[00:29:18] So it really is, ~um, ~a vast career field. When people say Veterans Affairs, there’s a m- many kind of pick a lane within Veterans Affairs. It’s kind of like being a doctor, right? Is

[00:29:29] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah

[00:29:30] Dwight Boddorf: but then you’ve got a surgeon, you’ve got ENT, you’ve got audiology. Veterans Affairs is a similar kind of space. ~Um, ~and, and so is a lot of things in government to, to be fair. You know, you might have somebody that specializes in services, somebody that does, ~um, ~you know, economic development, so on and so forth. So

[00:29:47] Scott DeLuzio: Sure, sure.

[00:29:48] Dwight Boddorf: problem

[00:29:50] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah

[00:29:50] Dwight Boddorf: that, ~um, ~I would encourage anybody listening to help us figure out.

[00:29:54] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, exact- well, that, that’s kinda why I wanted to go down that rabbit hole a little bit is because, ~uh, ~you know, hopefully [00:30:00] somebody’s listening out there, and maybe it’ll just trigger something in their head that it’s like, “Hey, there’s a solution that I, I just thought of,” ~uh, ~you know, as they’re listening to this.

[00:30:08] And, ~um, ~you know, maybe there’s, there’s some way that, you know, you and I are, and other people smarter than us have, have not thought about yet, and there, there might be j- just that one person out there who, who, ~uh, ~thinks of it. And, and maybe that helps streamline the whole process. That would be great. ~Um, ~but y- you know, going into…

[00:30:23] You’re, you’re talking about, ~uh, ~local governments and, and things like that. You- you’ve, ~uh, ~talked about it kind of as, ~uh, ~another type of battlefield. ~Um, ~you know, for veterans listening who might not think much about, you know, their local government, their, ~uh, ~you know, the town councils, the police, the f- the firefighters, all that kind of stuff, ~um, ~in your, your mind, w- how does, ~uh, ~the military, ~uh, ~skillset that you, you developed in the Marine Corps, ~uh, ~kind of apply to that local level, ~uh, ~and, and, or, or does it, you know, the, as far as leadership and all that kind of stuff?

[00:30:53] Dwight Boddorf: No, it does, and I think more than most people realize. ~Um, ~you know, the– We do a really good job [00:31:00] when military members transition to say, “Hey, you should take a federal job,” right? We get you veterans preference. You have all these skill sets that line up We’re starting to do that with state level jobs, but I would actually say it’s a better fit for the local jobs. ~Uh, ~the reason for that is they are more resource scarce. They are more in need of leadership. ~Um, ~ they need people who are flexible. So when people think of government, you typically think of bureaucracy, right? That you’re just drowning in all this paperwork and it’s slow-moving and all this stuff. been at federal, county, and local government, and some of that is true, when you get into the very lowest levels of government, your cities, your towns, it is much more fast-paced than people think. So my town where I’m at, we have a police department that we share with another town, so we’re running two towns for police. We run a water treatment plant and distribution system. We run an electric system. We have our normal, ~um, ~public works, so streets, storm [00:32:00] sewers, winter plowing, all of that other stuff. ~um, ~admin IT, and we just regionalized our EMS ambulance, plus firefighting. There is always something going on. There is, you know, there’s accidents, there’s fires, there’s involvement, there’s, ~um, ~funding, there’s community events. So the skill sets that a lot of veterans bring in, ~um, ~particularly when it comes to decisiveness and adaptability, ~um, ~super, super helpful in local government. Big government, you can sit and study a problem forever. You’ll, you’ll sit there for 30 years, you’ll make all the best plans in the world, and you’ll never execute.

[00:32:38] Scott DeLuzio: Right

[00:32:40] Dwight Boddorf: if, if you’re a veteran like me, that’s gonna frustrate you, right? Like I, I– Give me enough information, right? And veterans really excel at this. This is one of the things that you learn on the battlefield in the military, right? You don’t– You, you’re never gonna have all the information you need, but you know when you get enough information that you can make a good, informed decision. And a, you [00:33:00] know, perfect is the enemy of good in a lot of cases. And so coming into local government, maybe having 75% of the information, on that, and living with that decision and moving forward is really what is needed. Otherwise, things don’t get repaired. Your,

[00:33:15] your roads don’t get repaired, your EMS falls apart, all of these things. ~Um, ~veterans are uniquely good at executing with little information and being adaptable, too.

[00:33:26] ~Uh, ~I get pulled about 15 different directions in every day. You know, one minute I might be writing a policy, the next minute there’s, ~um, ~a fire. Forty-five minutes later, we’re looking at, ~um, ~economic development. Ten minutes after that, I get a call that the gas company hit a gas line and we gotta go shut down a road. And, and then after that, there’s a flock of geese in the road that is causing problems that nobody can move, right? It’s, absolutely wild. But it’s, ~um, ~it’s something that a lot of military members and veterans can thrive in because it kind of gives you that [00:34:00] mission of there are things to do and you’re doing good for your community. There are parts of it that are fast-paced. There are parts of it, ~um, ~that just really, really, really fit the veteran skillset for many, many, many service members

[00:34:13] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, and I could see that. As you’re talking about some of the challenges, I, I was thinking back to my deployment and the types of things that you had to do where you’re kind of thinking on your feet, where the situation changes and you have to adapt and make the, the, again, the next best decision that you can with the information that you have available to you.

[00:34:35] And, and sometimes it’s a real quick decision y- you have to make. You know, it’s a matter of, you know, seconds or minutes or, or so that you, you have in order to make that decision. It’s not like you can sit there for years pondering on, you know, what’s the best move to make here. ~Um, ~you know, you’re going to do the best that you can with the information that you have, and you’re gonna, you’re gonna move on and, and, ~uh, ~you know, it may not be the, the most perfect s- ~uh, ~[00:35:00] solution, but, ~uh, ~you’ll adjust later on and you’ll, you’ll figure out the next best thing as time goes on.

[00:35:05] And so, ~um, ~you know, you’ll, you’ll, you’ll be able to do that. And, and I guess all that to say is that I, I, I totally get where you’re coming from, where the, ~uh, ~military mindset that, that kinda quick thinking, adapt, overcome, that, that type of thing, ~uh, ~really could fit well in those s- situations. And, ~um,~

[00:35:26] Dwight Boddorf: su- supremely well. ~Um,~

[00:35:27] Scott DeLuzio: yeah.

[00:35:27] Dwight Boddorf: you know what else helps a lot is, is thick skin, right? You develop that in the military, so when you make those decisions, sometimes you’re gonna make– maybe it’s not an ideal decision, right? You had 75% of the information, and three weeks later you’re gonna be on social media because somebody picked apart the 5% way you could have done it better,

[00:35:47] Scott DeLuzio: Yep

[00:35:48] Dwight Boddorf: You know, in a perfect scenario and all these world, right? Y- you’re gonna have to learn how to deal with that and, and take criticism being a community leader. And, ~um, ~you know, it’s hard for a lot of people, even people with thick skin. But, [00:36:00] know, a lot of the service members and things that we were all taught to, you know, you deal with it, you, you move on, you live with the decisions that you have made, and, and you keep on keeping on. That is one of those kind of intangible things that they don’t really teach you when you’re going through public administration for your master’s degree, right? ~Um, ~and it hits you like a wall the first time that you find yourself plastered all over social media or on the local news channel or whatever it is

[00:36:26] for decision that still is arguably right, but could have gone a little bit better, or maybe you didn’t give enough

[00:36:32] Scott DeLuzio: Sure

[00:36:33] Dwight Boddorf: whatever it is. ~Um, ~veterans tend to handle that pretty well.

[00:36:38] Scott DeLuzio: Now, ~uh, ~you mentioned your book, The Municipal Battlefield. ~Um, ~we, we’ve been talking obviously a little bit about, ~uh, ~municipals and stuff like that. For the listeners who might be interested, you know, thinking now a little bit more about, you know, maybe, maybe I do wanna help out a little bit more in my, ~uh, ~my community here, ~um, ~tell us a little bit more about the book and, ~uh, ~and, and what people can expect from that [00:37:00] book

[00:37:00] Dwight Boddorf: Yeah. So, ~um, ~the book was directly taken from, ~um, ~military doctrine. So I found myself after 15, 20 years in the government when I got into, after being at the federal government county government leading divisions, a master’s degree in public administration, got into the smallest levels of government and realized there was no book.

[00:37:23] There’s no manual. There’s no, what do I do at 2:00 in the morning when I’ve got a power outage, a water break, and these other things all going on at the same time? You know, the mayor’s blowing up my phone. ~Um, ~I’ve got KDKA and the radio on the other line. Like, how do you handle all that? What do you do? ~Um, ~are a lot of really great books out there, but, you know, they’re a couple hundred, couple thousand pages long.

[00:37:45] That’s not gonna help you at 2:00 in the morning. And so what I set out to do was write more of a field manual, a less than 150 page, here’s your guide, here’s what you need to know, ~um, ~major pitfalls, things that you should watch out for, things that you need [00:38:00] to have in your back pocket, right? operating procedures is intimately familiar with everybody in the military, right?

[00:38:06] So how do you apply that to your public works division, right? Checklist, making sure that when it’s snow season, snowplows are attached, things are greased, so on and so forth, that, you know, you can standardize all those things and get a little checklist, give it out to your public works director, or even for yourself going and ask them, “Was this done?

[00:38:25] Was this done? Was this done?” Right?

[00:38:27] don’t want to be the leader in the situation that half your snowplows broke down during the first storm because you didn’t do your due diligence.

[00:38:34] Scott DeLuzio: Right

[00:38:34] Dwight Boddorf: right. Well, and, you know, it’s, but it’s those little things that, that make you or break you in the small town. When you’re a, when you’re a big city, you have a lot of resources, you have a lot of different things, right?

[00:38:45] ~Um, ~but when you’re a small town and maybe there’s only 10 of you, y- there’s no hiding from that if you, if you forget something, if you don’t break something. And so this book was really designed to help give the bare bones and the essentials to small town leaders [00:39:00] for how they survive that. You know, here’s really, again, what you should be thinking about. Here’s your SOP. Here’s what you should, you know, reach out to, kind of be aware of, ~um, ~state level resources, all of those things. ~Um, ~so hopefully a handful of people find it useful. ~Um, ~I certainly would’ve been happy to receive something that gave me at least an outline of what I should be thinking about when it comes to running all the municipal operations, finance, public works, IT.

[00:39:26] ~Um, ~you know, who do you make friends with first? And listening who’s in government, I can tell you the first people that you make friends with are your police and fire chiefs, ’cause they will make or break you.

[00:39:37] Scott DeLuzio: That’s, that’s great advice. ~Um, ~and, and as you’re talking, you know, a, a book like this with the, ~uh, uh,~ kinda field manual layout and, and stuff, I think is uniquely, ~uh, ~you know, great for the veteran who wants to get involved in their, their local government,

[00:39:55] Dwight Boddorf: Yeah

[00:39:55] Scott DeLuzio: ‘ cause they’re already familiar with that kind of layout, and [00:40:00] they, ~uh, ~you know, they’re, they’re scrappy.

[00:40:02] They, they can figure things out on the fly, and they, they can, they can get the job done,

[00:40:06] Dwight Boddorf: I’ve gotten

[00:40:06] Scott DeLuzio: right-

[00:40:07] Dwight Boddorf: response from veterans because they look at it and they go, “Oh, I recognize this.”

[00:40:12] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

[00:40:12] Dwight Boddorf: So it’s– I had, I put a translation matrix in at the beginning for people who have, who are not familiar with military because they’re looking at this expecting like a, a public affairs book,

[00:40:23] and it looks vastly different from any public affairs book that most people have ever seen. but if you, if you come from military world or even places like police emergency management, it’s a familiar that they, they recognize instantly, “Oh, okay, I know how to use this. This is helpful, straight and to the point.” ~Um, ~and that was really the intention, was something that was just absolutely useful in a pinch at 2:00 in the morning.

[00:40:48] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, absolutely. Well, ~um, ~for the listeners right now, for, like, you know, a veteran who might be listening who, ~uh, ~has been through, you know, some difficult times maybe with their transition, maybe with some [00:41:00] issues with the VA, ~uh, ~feeling like they’re overlooking them or doesn’t, doesn’t know where to, where they fit in, what, ~uh, ~what would you want them to take away from your story and, and your experiences?

[00:41:11] Dwight Boddorf: ~Um, ~it’s gonna sound a little cliché, but, you know, keep going. ~Um, ~not knowing where you fit in does not mean that you don’t belong, right? Keep going. You will find something. ~Uh, ~you will find your tribe. You will find where you fit in. It’s, it’s perseverance. ~Uh, ~at this point, you’re in a marathon, right?

[00:41:28] You’ve got the rest of your life. You find those things that excite you. You find the people that are gonna support you, and you always pushing one day at a time, one step at a time. you’re not done just because your uniform came off. There are other ways to serve and find what works for you

[00:41:51] Scott DeLuzio: Great advice. ~Um, ~Dwight, thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing your, your background, your insights, ~uh, ~things that you’ve gone through, some of the hardships that you’ve had to [00:42:00] overcome, and the things that you have done to get yourself through them and find a way to, ~uh, ~continue living a meaningful, purpose- purposeful life, ~uh, ~with, ~uh, ~you know, all the, the continued service that you’re, you’re doing.

[00:42:13] So thank you so much

[00:42:13] Dwight Boddorf: Thank you so much for having me, and thank you for everything that you’re doing for the veterans community as well

[00:42:19] Scott DeLuzio: Appreciate it