Julian Cash Interview: Team Dynamics, Achieving a Career High, & What ATP Doubles Needs

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You're about to hear my conversation with Julian Cash.
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Julian is at a career-high ranking of number 12 on the ATP Tour.
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He is number three in the race to the year-end finals with his partner, lloyd Glasspool.
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They have three titles so far this year and, as you're listening to this, they might have a fourth title.
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I spoke with him before they played their final in Eastbourne, so that is coming up after I'm recording this intro here and in the conversation we discussed their year so far, what makes them such a good team.
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We talk a lot about their kind of team dynamics and team chemistry.
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We also talked about the match that they had played earlier in the day, the semifinal match against fellow British pair Neil Skupski and Joe Salisbury.
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We discussed his career overall, what he attributes his improvement to, what's working so well for them as a team, especially on grass.
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We talk a little bit about college tennis and doubles.
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Specifically, julian played at Mississippi State and Oklahoma State, and then we talk about how to make pro doubles more popular.
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And get to some of your questions from Instagram and Twitter.
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Julian has some really thoughtful answers in this conversation.
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I think, whether you're just a fan of pro doubles or a club level player looking for kind of mindset and different intangible tips that you can use to implement into your own doubles game.
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I feel like you're going to get a lot out of this.
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To get a lot out of this, julian was on site at Eastbourne and the Wi-Fi was a little spotty, so we did our best to edit the audio as much as we could, but there are a few kind of glitches in the audio.
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It's nothing that's too bad.
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You're going to be able to get a lot out of this conversation regardless.
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So, without further delay, enjoy this conversation with Julian Cash.
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Hey everyone, welcome to the show.
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Today we have Julian Cash on Julian.
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Welcome, hey guys.
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Thanks a lot for having me.
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Appreciate you being here.
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So you are in Eastbourne right now.
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You are at a career high ranking of number 12.
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You've made three consecutive finals.
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Now things seem to be going well.
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I want to get into all that, but first talk about the match from earlier today.
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It was a semifinal match against Neil Skubski and Joe Salisbury.
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It looked like I didn't get to watch it because it was so early in my time, but I looked at the stats and it looked like it was a fairly even match, only one break of serve.
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Talk a little bit about what the match looked like from your perspective.
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Yeah, it was a very even match today.
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Conditions were really tough.
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I think we had like 40 mile an hour gusts of wind, so that on the grass just had fun, so that on the grass just had a fun.
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So it was kind of just who could keep ahead and keep pushing and I think we managed to stay cool.
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Lloyd helped me a lot today on that front and just kind of tried to trust ourselves that we'll come up with some good tennis in the big moments, and we were able to do that.
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And that was the semifinals.
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The second semifinal match was afterwards.
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Did you, do you stick around and watch that to try to scout a bit, or do you kind of let your team handle that and you just kind of recover for the next day?
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What does your process look like for that?
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Sometimes my team would stick around and watch, but I prefer to watch.
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Personally, I learn a lot more from um.
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Looking at it on my ipad, I can kind of pause things, slow them down, do it like that, um and I also.
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I've got other stuff to do.
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I've got to go and eat physio and do other bits, so for me I prefer to kind of just take care of myself.
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My match is done and then I use my evenings for the scouting and stuff.
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It's maybe not the best way, because then my whole day ends up being tennis, but that's how I work best.
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Yeah.
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So I want to step back and look at kind of your career overall.
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So I was doing some research before the call and I looked at your ATP profile.
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It looks like your year to date prize money is more than half of your overall career prize money.
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So this is certainly a great year for you, but this kind of started I mean your ranking has steadily progressed the last uh, you know, five years or so.
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Um, talk about what's changed for you over the last uh, several years and what do you attribute that kind of consistent improvement to?
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Yeah, I mean I I think, if you look to every uh seems to have kind of doubled every year, both my ranking and the prize money.
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But for me it's just kind of sticking to the same stuff.
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I don't think I'm playing like a completely different level than I was a year or two ago, Just dealing with different scenarios better, I would say, picking up on things that opponents are doing and also just trusting myself again in those big moments, Also in doubles.
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I mean you have to play so many weeks to get up the rankings.
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There's not that many spots in the bigger events To get into the Masters.
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Last year I was 35, I think, and I was missing Masters cuts.
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So yeah, it's a very difficult journey to climb the rankings.
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You need a lot of consistency.
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Every time you're playing a match, everyone else is playing for twice as many points, um, so it's really tough to climb those rankings and I've been fortunate that once I've been given the opportunity to get into some of those events and make the cuts, I've made the most of them and been able to push on.
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Talk about 2022.
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For a second.
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Y'all you and Henry Patton won 10 Challenger titles, which was a record that still stands today.
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Talk about that run, and I don't know if I'm remembering this correctly or exactly like where your ranking was at the time, but I think I remember y'all at a certain point were able to get into some ATP level matches, but y'all continued to play some challengers.
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Correct me if I'm wrong on that, but talk about that year overall and kind of what went so well for you.
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Yeah, I mean to start on that one, not completely wrong, but we had absolutely no idea what we were doing.
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In all honesty, I didn't even know how to enter ATP events and stuff like that.
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So there were some that we would have got into, but we kind of didn't know at the time and we were trying to make decisions earlier than that.
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Really, like, if we would have waited and seen, like the final list, then, yes, we would have got in.
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But the other problem we had was we were in america.
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Um, we were doing well out there, consistently putting a good shift in week in, week out, and the ranking was climbing, um, so it was kind of like, with a lot of those weeks it was like, okay, maybe we get into stockholm 250, but then do we just have to come to america because we don't know if we're in the week after and stuff like that.
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So it was a little bit of a scheduling thing.
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Also, us being unaware really of like, okay, actually, like those are the types of like I know now those events there's always one or two pairs drop and things happen, um, but yeah, we, we just weren't aware and for us our goal was set on Australia in January, uh, and we were on a trajectory, so we wanted to kind of keep that momentum and keep pushing on um, but yeah, I mean it was a crazy.
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I think we spent four, almost five months on the road without going home, uh, which, in hindsight, is mental.
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I'm not sure I could do that again, but, um, we were very fortunate to have each other.
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I also think we were both learning a lot every week, which kind of kept us pretty occupied.
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We weren't just playing matches and stuff like literally every match.
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We were learning new things in constant communication with our coaches and stuff, and it did make the whole thing quite enjoyable.
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Um, I think anyone can attest to the fact that if you're improving, things are fun, and we were improving on that trip.
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So, um, yeah, we were able to make the most of it and, and we met some incredible host families along the way out there too, which made our time um, a lot more enjoyable.
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It gave us some home comforts on on such a long stint.
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So, uh, we were very fortunate in many areas and and it was a time that obviously set us up for where we both are now.
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Um, and and, yeah, I'm glad we we put that shift in back then what's you mentioned learning a lot during that time?
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what is one thing that you learned that you still use today during that stretch?
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uh, I think that not everyone feels as comfortable on the court as they might look.
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I think it's like very easy.
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Doubles is so fast-paced.
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Things are happening here and there Like you might be missing some serves or you might have missed this, or returns aren't feeling good, but actually, like when you look at the other side of the net, it's very much the same for them.
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I mean, on a day like today, something like that stands true more than ever.
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Um, I mean, I've I've personally felt pretty bad out there, like nothing in my game felt quite normal.
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Um, but I know full well that they're feeling the same.
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They're struggling with the wind, they're shanking balls like it's.
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It's not easy.
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Um, so for me, really, that's the thing that that stood out through that trip the most I love that answer.
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Um, so I want to talk about your partnership with lloyd now.
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Um, you have made three straight finals you're, I think, 10, and one now on grass.
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And then I looked back, um it kind of the last calendar year for you as well, and y'all have made seven or I think now maybe eight finals since october of last year.
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Um, what is going so well in this partnership?
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And talk about grass specifically?
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I think there's a couple of things that work for us.
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I think both our um, our values and our uh, our goals in the sport are aligned, which I think is very important.
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We both have a vision to get to the top of the sport and are willing to put in the work and the hours to get there.
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And then, with that, I think we've learned a lot about each other, both on and off the court how to work well together, how to boost each other when one's not playing well or not feeling well or they're tired, um, and things like that, which actually I would definitely say we both improved in the last eight, nine months, for sure, but I think our ability to help each other out and perform as a team is what's giving us these consistent results.
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Um, it's pretty rare that you go and have your best day of tennis, and when there's two of you on a court, the chances that that's together is pretty slim.
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And so for us, it's more about finding ways through it and and actually doing all the small things as a team Well, to give ourselves the best chance of winning matches when actually maybe we're not playing our best, um, cause that's how, realistically, you get through a draw especially in the two-week tournaments that are so long.
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What makes Lloyd specifically a good doubles partner?
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That's a good question.
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I mean, I think our games match each other very well.
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We're both big servers, so I think on any given day if some things aren't going well, we'll always push a team to the end.
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So I think the fact we both have that makes us very threatening, and I don't think pairs want to play us for that reason.
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Then, on top of that, I think we both have a very good energy together.
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We kind of function at different levels.
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I like to be a little bit more pumped up, he's a little bit more flat, but I think we both keep each other in check.
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Sometimes he needs my energy and sometimes I need his um, and so the fact that we have that kind of simmering along together I think works well yeah, I feel like I get that answer a lot from uh, from doubles players, because you can't get too high and then you don't want to get too low, right.
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So a lot from uh, from doubles players, because you can't get too high and then you don't want to get too low, right.
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So a lot of yeah, um, the best teams have that one person who can like bring the other one up and then the other person who can like calm the other one down.
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Maybe yeah, for sure that's something I hear a lot.
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If I were to ask lloyd the same question so what?
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What makes julian a great doubles partner?
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What do you think he would say?
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He'd probably say the fact I play with him.
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No, I mean, I think it would be a similar thing.
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Honestly, I mean, you have to get him on and ask him.
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But yeah, I think it would be a very similar answer.
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I think our games suit each other very well.
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We have a very similar identity and a very similar mentality in what we're trying to do.
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So, um, we obviously both work with louis and both buy into that stuff.
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So I think that helps us.
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It reduces a lot of conflict in the team.
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If we ever have things that like he brings to the equation or I bring something like what do you think about this?
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That the other, uh, we always kind of give final decision to Louis and that kind of.
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We both fully buy into that and it gives us a, gives us both the opportunity one to voice things, knowing that it's not going to be like taken personally or anything like that.
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But also then actually, if we do disagree on something, that we've got a voice that can kind of um, put it to bed and then we both buy into whatever answer is given if you could take one lesson you've learned from louis and send it out to the doubles players all over the world, including, like, club level players?
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uh, what would that lesson be?
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uh, it's a tricky one.
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I mean, obviously, a lot of the work he does is on positioning.
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But if it was like a lesson that he's taught me, I think he's pretty big on giving yourself two chances to win and he kind of describes in the sense of like, if you go out and play well, then you win the match.
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If they go out and play well, they win the match.
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But what he doesn't want you to do is lose the match and kind of what he means by that is like we have a system that we play under, we have a lot of different patterns and it's staying true to that stuff.
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So when the big moment comes, if I know I'm supposed to put a volley there, I commit to doing that.
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It's that I don't make the bad decision and then that means if we're going to lose a match, it's on the other guys to beat us.
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It's not because we're going to beat ourselves doing stupid things, trying to hit lines, trying trying to go for the small targets on the court.
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And again, I think maybe like in one week, that doesn't pay off, but I think over a 12-month period, when you try and play those odds and truly commit to them, I think it does pay off and it also gives you confidence in the tighter moments that you do know what you're going to do before it kind of happens and it gives you a better chance to stick to that.
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Yeah, I mean.
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It certainly seems to be paying off if you look at the rankings and how many British guys are inside that top 50, top 20 and so on.
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Yeah, for sure.
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So I want to ask about college tennis.
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So you played at Mississippi State, oklahoma State.
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You were number one in college doubles.
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I actually spoke earlier this year with JJ Tracy in Dallas and I asked him how he plans to prioritize singles, the doubles.
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Like haters say that doubles is for failed singles players, do you feel like more college tennis players are, you know, just saying I'm going to just push singles aside and go straight for doubles?
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How do you kind of view that?
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I think, yeah, I mean it's definitely happening more.
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Those two guys are obviously an example of that.
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They came straight out of college and went for it straight away.
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I think some younger guys have shown that it's possible, henry and I being an example of that.
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We were 26, which in the doubles world is honestly babies.
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Everyone else is 35 plus and there's been other people that have done the same thing and they've kind of showed that it is possible to do when younger.
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You don't have to play a full singles career and then try and add some years to that career at the end.
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Obviously, the money's got better as well.
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I think the level is extremely high right now.
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There's a lot of pairs, as you're seeing in all the slams and masters.
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There's so many different pairs winning these big events at the moment, um, but yeah, I mean it's.
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It's a tricky one, like for me.
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I wanted to play singles, but I think part of that is because it's something you're always told uh, doubles obviously doesn't get the publicity that I think it should, um, and that it deserves, and so then it's like anything.
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If you're a kid and you're watching singles, well, that's what you're going to aspire to be.
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So I think the narrative kind of pushes you down that route, because it's just how everything's set up.
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I mean, I think of so much junior tennis.
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Like I didn't play much doubles when I was a kid um, it was all around singles.
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I just think that's the way that we're brought up and taught to play.
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So I truly see it as it's like if you went into cricket and compared the 2020 batters to the guys playing the test matches, like it's a very different skill.
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And yeah, maybe some of the doubles guys don't make it in singles because of their skills that they have in doubles don't work on a singles court.
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But I don't think that makes it better or worse of a sport.
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It's just a different version of it and I think, as it shows in so many of the events, I think the doubles guys beat the singles guys more often than not.
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Obviously, when the singles guys come out and play lights out, they can.
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They can be anyone on any day, for sure, but, um, I think generally the doubles pairs are winning those matches more often than not, and so that does show that it is a different skill set that gets you through the matches yeah, 100.
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Um, a couple of questions from Instagram and Twitter and then I will let you run here and get ready for your finals.
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So Tennis Pig from Twitter asked do you feel added pressure or more relaxed playing Wimbledon as a Brit?
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It's a really good question, honestly.
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I think, certainly in my first few years, I felt a lot of pressure.
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Playing in England forget Wimbledon just playing in England itself you have suddenly like 20 LTA staff around.
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There's just a lot of people going like it's family, friends, people want tickets, there's this, that and the other.
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It kind of never stops and I definitely found that quite overwhelming.
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My schedule last year would show that I chose to play Mallorca instead of Eastbourne Eastbourne's, only 40 minutes down the road from my parents house, so kind of a weird decision.
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But actually I felt for me at that time.
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I just wanted to keep my head down and go and play matches without any of the distractions.
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Um, but this year, uh, I mean, obviously we did.
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We won queens last week and I think shows that I'm in a different head place, I'm able to deal with that stuff better.
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Um, but it's definitely not easy.
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I mean, you get asked all kinds of questions by media, by friends, by anyone.
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Even when you're signing autographs, people just say stuff uh, and yeah, you've, you've got to block a lot of it out, um for sure.
00:21:23.918 --> 00:21:28.455
But I think most of the brits do a really good job of rising to the occasion.
00:21:28.455 --> 00:21:31.707
We're obviously very lucky, um, to have a grass swing here.
00:21:31.707 --> 00:21:37.442
So many of the guys capitalize on wild cards, as as me and henry were able to do back in 2022.
00:21:37.442 --> 00:21:42.470
And so I think, generally, it brings the best out in a lot of people.
00:21:42.470 --> 00:21:56.421
It's just about creating a positive energy and not, well, yeah, trying to not add that pressure, just, I think, supporting all the players and keeping that positive energy going and trying to use the fact that we're at home to our advantage.
00:21:59.375 --> 00:22:02.959
Lily from Twitter asks how do you feel about playing old partners?
00:22:02.959 --> 00:22:04.584
Is it easier, harder?
00:22:04.584 --> 00:22:06.470
Don't care, depends on who it is.
00:22:06.470 --> 00:22:14.106
And then specifically talk about playing against henry uh, I mean there's definitely a different dynamic.
00:22:14.647 --> 00:22:18.761
Um, from my side, I would say it probably depends who it is.
00:22:18.761 --> 00:22:21.047
I think if you have a good relationship, it's fine.
00:22:21.047 --> 00:22:28.534
Obviously, you know each other very well and it is slightly different.
00:22:28.534 --> 00:22:34.701
But the flip side of that is I'm friends with a lot of guys on tour and I play them week in, week out.
00:22:34.701 --> 00:22:38.465
It doesn't necessarily matter if I've played with them or not.
00:22:38.465 --> 00:22:40.361
We practice together a lot.
00:22:40.361 --> 00:22:41.480
There's so many things going on.
00:22:41.480 --> 00:22:46.002
So I would say, yes, it's different, but for me it's not an issue.
00:22:46.002 --> 00:22:52.942
Again, play so many matches throughout the year, win so many, lose so many, it kind of is just another match.
00:22:52.942 --> 00:22:59.500
And I mean I've played a lot of Brits this year and, yeah, I go into it.
00:22:59.500 --> 00:23:00.344
At the end of the day.
00:23:00.344 --> 00:23:04.863
If I lose to them, I'm happy for them and I hope they go on to win the tournament.
00:23:04.863 --> 00:23:12.133
But I just try and look at it as another match uh, tennis plus ufc.
00:23:12.232 --> 00:23:18.013
From twitter asked uh, what does cash think of the name cash pool for him and glass pool?
00:23:18.013 --> 00:23:19.661
Could we make t-shirts?
00:23:19.661 --> 00:23:20.784
Could I get a percentage?
00:23:23.348 --> 00:23:25.993
uh, yeah, the cash pool has been thrown around a little bit.
00:23:25.993 --> 00:23:32.908
Um, I think the lta have been using it and and I did see a flag with it on at Queens, which is kind of funny.
00:23:32.908 --> 00:23:38.036
But yeah, we not sure there's many other options for us.
00:23:38.036 --> 00:23:41.059
Really, I wouldn't say it's the most amazing name.
00:23:41.059 --> 00:23:42.020
I guess it works.
00:23:45.372 --> 00:23:47.581
I'm not sure what else we can go with.
00:23:47.581 --> 00:23:55.415
So the last question, thoughts on the mixed event at the US Open, and then more generally, how can we?
00:23:56.038 --> 00:23:57.305
make ATP doubles more popular.
00:23:57.305 --> 00:23:58.990
Mixed event at the US Open.
00:23:58.990 --> 00:24:05.553
I think I'm completely split on it is the honest answer, I think for us doubles players it's a real shame.
00:24:05.553 --> 00:24:09.493
I look forward to mixed doubles at every event.
00:24:09.493 --> 00:24:20.950
Being completely selfish, I've only just started getting into them, so this is kind of my first year of playing them, not on a wildcard at Wimbledon, so I'm personally gutted that I can't go and play there.
00:24:20.950 --> 00:24:24.991
But the flip side of it, I fully understand why it's been done.
00:24:24.991 --> 00:24:27.351
I think it will be a great event.
00:24:27.351 --> 00:24:28.509
It's going to make a lot of money.
00:24:28.509 --> 00:24:32.893
I hope it goes as well as as they plan and I'm sure it will.
00:24:32.893 --> 00:24:40.056
Um, and a lot of the money we would have made in mixed last year has been put into the doubles draw anyway.
00:24:40.056 --> 00:24:43.976
So it's not like financially we're actually going to be worse off for it.
00:24:43.976 --> 00:24:51.687
Um, but still from a personal perspective, I I would have loved to have the chance to to go out there and compete um, but it is what it is.
00:24:53.252 --> 00:25:00.031
Yeah, and how can we make ATP doubles more popular?
00:25:00.031 --> 00:25:02.778
For me, I think it's hard to look past anything other than exposure.
00:25:02.778 --> 00:25:13.153
I know from myself like if you know someone on a stage or on a court or you know someone in a band, like you're interested in what's going on.
00:25:13.153 --> 00:25:14.570
It kind of doesn't matter what's happening.
00:25:14.570 --> 00:25:18.816
I think the doubles product at the highest level is fantastic.
00:25:18.816 --> 00:25:31.086
Maybe brass isn't the most prettiest place for it, with obviously the serves and the speed of the court, but everywhere else I think there's a lot of fun to be had, a lot of.
00:25:31.086 --> 00:25:39.375
Well, most people I feel like in clubs and stuff, are playing doubles and I think generally there's a lot of appreciation for the skills we have.
00:25:39.375 --> 00:25:41.953
I just think it's being able to get it on screens.
00:25:41.953 --> 00:25:46.776
I know the ATP and stuff will say that well, no one's buying it.
00:25:46.776 --> 00:25:51.596
But I can tell you that I get countless messages.
00:25:51.596 --> 00:25:52.278
Where can I watch?
00:25:52.278 --> 00:25:54.266
There are people I don't know like it never ends.
00:25:54.266 --> 00:25:57.252
Even this week I must have had 20 plus messages.
00:25:57.252 --> 00:26:01.170
I know that's not going to sell millions of tickets, but that's just my phone.
00:26:01.170 --> 00:26:02.472
It shows there's an interest.
00:26:02.472 --> 00:26:07.630
Um, I I don't even think there necessarily needs to be money made out of it.
00:26:07.630 --> 00:26:19.273
If, if they could make a youtube channel where these matches just go out for free or whatever it is, or start putting them on tennis TV so at least they are making some revenue from it.
00:26:19.273 --> 00:26:29.194
But I think unless you get it on screens, unless people know who the players are, yes, you can change sudden death, juice this, that and the other, but I don't think that's enough to spark anything.
00:26:29.194 --> 00:26:30.644
No one even knows the rules anyway.
00:26:31.147 --> 00:26:36.894
My general thing is I think tennis doesn't have great exposure, uh, even the singles.
00:26:36.894 --> 00:26:38.441
I think people are so unaware, like.
00:26:38.441 --> 00:26:47.813
I remember speaking to an american guy a couple of years ago and he was telling me what a bad place american tennis is in and I was like you've got five guys in the top 40.
00:26:47.813 --> 00:26:48.796
Like what are you talking about?
00:26:48.796 --> 00:26:49.546
But they don't.
00:26:49.546 --> 00:26:50.586
They're so unaware of that.
00:26:50.586 --> 00:26:52.509
They don't have a mackinrow anymore.
00:26:52.509 --> 00:26:54.413
So they're like well, it sucks.
00:26:55.214 --> 00:27:05.366
Um, and actually you could argue in some ways maybe, yes, there's not a number one, but there's so many guys there right now, um, that that should be exciting, but it's not for them.
00:27:05.366 --> 00:27:08.813
So I think across the board, they need to do a better job.
00:27:08.813 --> 00:27:11.867
Um, maybe not just focus on one or two guys.
00:27:11.867 --> 00:27:14.976
I know they have a a big emphasis on like.
00:27:14.976 --> 00:27:18.541
They'll tell us that stuff goes out in the media because it needs to get certain hits.
00:27:18.561 --> 00:27:32.721
So, for example, if they post something with carlos, they get 50 000 likes, whereas if they post someone something with um I won't say any names, but let's say someone 40 in the world, uh, it gets 5 000.
00:27:32.721 --> 00:27:51.162
So for them they go okay, we're going to pump the stuff that gets 50 000, but it that almost just uh, drives the same wheel of okay, well, now carlos is getting more exposure, more exposure, more exposure, and the other is getting none, so that's going to become 60 000, while the other one's going to stay at five, you know.
00:27:51.162 --> 00:27:58.846
So I think they need to do a better job of selling stories, selling personalities, getting to know the players, getting their stuff on screens one way or another.
00:27:58.846 --> 00:28:06.514
Um, and without that, I think yeah, I think it's going to be very hard to change anything it's really well said um.
00:28:06.715 --> 00:28:11.626
Julian, thanks a ton for coming on and good luck in the final in eastbourne absolutely.
00:28:11.646 --> 00:28:12.949
Thanks a lot for having me appreciate it.