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If you are scrolling through social media and you go into the comment section on a particular post, you will often see people taking the worst construction on another person's words.
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Or this even happens in the formal newsroom where there will be news stories about something someone said, and they will report on what seems to be their misunderstanding of that individual's words.
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Today we want to take into consideration what is our duty to strive to understand what other people are saying.
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In Martin Luther's explanation of the eighth commandment, it is said a few different ways in English translations, but it's essentially essentially to take other people's words and actions in the kindest possible way.
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So today in our podcast, we're going to talk about that very thing.
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What do you do when someone says something that says wrong, that sounds wrong?
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Do you strive to understand it in the best possible way, or do you assume the worst?
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This is Double Portion, a podcast where twin Lutheran pastors discuss the intersection of Christian living and the study of scriptures.
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My name is Chris Flughaft.
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I'm the pastor at Grace Lutheran Church in Yorbelinda, and I'm joined by Tony Flugeft, the pastor at Christ the Vine Lutheran Church in Temecula.
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Perhaps you've seen these things online, even assertions made, like even the fact that I thought that's what he might have meant shows that there's a problem with what's going on.
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It seems that people struggle with taking others' words and actions in the kindest possible way.
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Yeah, and so as Lutheran Christians, we know that this is our responsibility to take people's words and actions in the kindest possible way, with the best construction on what they're saying.
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Now, we obviously we balance what scripture says.
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Jesus tells us to be as innocent as doves and as shrewd as vipers, and so this doesn't mean that we are to go and be taken advantage of and not consider what could be the underlying truth behind the words that someone speaks.
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At the same time, we do have that general position of taking their words and actions in the kindest possible way.
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And so what you mentioned is one of my biggest pet peeves is someone will get upset about something that was said online about by a politician, by a celebrity, by a friend, even, and then they'll kind of say, like, well, the fact that I even thought, so they they maybe find out what they thought was wrong.
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Well, the fact that I even thought that this is what the person meant is really telling.
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And it's like, well, is it really telling that you thought that?
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That what you think does not actually necessarily reflect on their intention and their meaning.
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And so that's kind of a it's a lazy argument.
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Well, I it's even telling that I thought that.
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This is a major issue, especially in the realm of of politics, where people don't seem interested, and this is both right and left, don't seem interested in actually receiving the message the person intends to deliver, but rather they're more concerned about fitting that message into their preconceived notions and and then they get upset about that.
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And and so I think this is one major realm, is as you talk about online, getting mad about things that politicians or celebrities or whoever might it might be says.
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But we as Christians want to to be charitable towards others, and and I think that's something we need to talk about.
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Well, how can we train ourselves to do that?
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Maybe talk about why we want to do that, but then also maybe we could get into later, like some exceptional cases that I mentioned before.
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We are as shrewd as Vipers, but did you want to expand upon that thought a little more?
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It doesn't just happen in the online realm or in these parasocial relationships where you know that person deeply through online rhetoric, but you don't actually know them at all.
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It happens in our uh in real life relationships on a daily basis.
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Maybe the stereotype one is the in-law relationship, where it's often a uh son-in-law with a mother-in-law or a daughter-in-law with the mother-in-law.
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It usually is with the mother-in-law, it seems, in the way that people talk about it, although I'm sure the father-in-law can play a role too.
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But it seems like the things that are said are not properly understood, or the worst construction is put on it.
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The mother-in-law says, Why don't you ever bring my uh grandchildren around?
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And then the daughter-in-law can receive that as an insult.
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And maybe that wasn't constructed in the best possible way.
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But rather than just assuming, oh, well, she loves her grandchildren and she wants to see them, you hear these stories, and it's like, oh, she's accusing me of not doing enough.
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Or often what people will get mad on is say, like, you must not think I'm very busy, and aren't you have all the time in the world?
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Can't you come visit me?
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So a lot of times people become self-protective.
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What they'll hear something someone says, they'll maybe respond in their own pride, but it's shown in false humility pride type where they you know get offended that this person's attacking me, and then that might lead them there.
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But kind of looping that back together of what I was saying is this isn't just a parasocial relationship with online figureheads.
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This is something that affects our day-to-day living.
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Yeah.
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And even if it is just your online persona, that still impacts the way that you live because people are often getting upset and angry about these things, and then they talk about it with their friends, and you think the way that people talk about politics, and then they get upset about it, and it riles them up, and they need to go and talk to someone else.
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And so even if it isn't your day-to-day life, you're still getting impacted by this.
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But then also, like you said, those everyday relationships, uh, people don't always take their loved ones' words and actions in the kindest possible way.
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And in a marital relationship, this is huge, where I think a lot of people take marital conflict as as something that is to be won, and they can get very upset with the their spouse, and this upset being this anger combined with the desire to to win can lead people to be dishonest about the other person's intentions or not be charitable about the other person's intentions.
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And so I know when we did an episode on love, we read 1 Corinthians 13, and I think this would be another section, another time that it'd be appropriate to read part of this.
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Verses for and following.
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Love is patient, love is kind, it does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud, it does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.
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Love does not delight in evil, but rejoices with the truth.
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It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
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So there's a handful of issues that connect from this section to this idea of taking people's words and actions in the kindest possible way.
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Generally speaking, you're not being patient with the individual.
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You're quickly jumping to conclusions and getting upset.
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Generally speaking, it can include pride as we talked about before.
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Generally speaking, it it certainly, more than generally speaking, it dishonors others.
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It's not treating them as with the same love and respect and honor that you desire to be treated.
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And we can get into that thought a little bit more.
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Jesus' golden rule, do unto others as you would have them do to you, I think is really applicable and this idea.
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Often take people's words and actions not in the greatest way is self-seeking.
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And it says love is not self-seeking, it's it's being easily angered.
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It's certainly keeping a record of wrongs, because it is the record of wrongs previously that probably leads you to not be charitable in your interactions.
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So there's a lot of food for thought from 1 Corinthians 13 that impacts our our our thoughts about this.
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It is not loving at the end of the day to not take people's words and actions in the kindest possible way.
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Yeah, and to think not just about our love for our neighbor and our family members, but also our love for God.
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And then when I think of our love for God and how we desire to demonstrate our love for him through our words and actions, I can't help but think about how the very nature of God is truth.
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So Jesus says, sanctify them by the truth, your word is truth in John 17, 17.
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And he he calls liars children of the devil because the devil is the father of lies.
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He created lies.
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There is no a deceit in our God.
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And at the end of the day, maybe maybe you might call it intentional misunderstanding of another person or negligent misunderstanding.
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What is that other than a cherishing of deceit?
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Yeah.
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It's approaching a situation, not seeking the truth, but instead, usually for sinful reasons, perhaps just a result of sinful apathy towards the situation, it results in you misunderstanding the other person, and it can often be in a malicious way.
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Now, I I think this is a little bit of a result of the current era that we live in.
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So we're at a pastor's conference.
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You might be able to tell that we're recording from a pastor's conference right now, and on the airplane over yesterday, I was reading a book that you've read before, Authentic Christianity by Sutton and Vith.
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And then in this, they're talking about the end of modernism and the beginning of postmodernism and moving out of postmodernism, even, and what that means.
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But people have heard of the idea of this kind of relative truth pushed by postmodernism, this idea that the what's true for you isn't necessarily true for me.
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And that type of thinking can impact how we understand anything.
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Because you think if you have that very prideful view of understanding to say like something can be true just because it's my perception of it, well, then how does that impact how we hear other people?
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Yeah.
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So imagine your wife uh says, Oh, you look very nice today, honey.
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And then in your mind, it's like, well, she didn't say I look handsome or thin or today, how about yesterday?
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So then you you you could totally misconstrue what she said.
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And then if you have this very prideful understanding of I dictate what's true in the moment, that can totally destroy your interaction with that person and understanding of what they mean.
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So I think as people who love God and who want to love and serve Him and recognize that truth is in the very nature of God, that we want to strive for truth in our lives.
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Not just how we speak, the Bible says enough about speaking truth, but also in how we strive to understand, and we want to strive to understand people in the truest sense and recognizing we're interacting with fallible, sinful people.
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There will be even times when someone speaks in a confusing way that could be understood in an improper way, but you're gonna approach that and say, if I can have clues towards their intentions, that's going to lead me towards saying this is what's true, and because I love the truth, I'm going to understand them in that true sense.
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Yeah.
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So in our Bible study, we've been I've we've been going through a critique of dispensational premillennialism.
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And one of the issues that we would have with the dispensationalist premillennialist approach to scripture is with their hermeneutic and particularly in apocalyptic literature, the sections of scripture that use this fantastic images to communicate messages, particularly about the end times.
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And and we'll say they they read it literalistically.
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And I was kind of explaining how we read scripture.
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Scripture is written in different genres, and you approach different genres differently.
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So you approach a narrative different than you would approach a formal first uh first-person correspondence versus that apocalyptic literature versus poetry.
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And as someone who's receiving a message, it is your duty to see what the person intended.
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And now, within this postmodern world, there are people who have deconstructed language to the point where they kind of claim you can't know what anyone means.
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Uh, we're gonna deny that premise and say that communication and language was given to us as a gift from God and we can know what people mean, and it is our job to figure out what they mean to say.
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And so I use this example when talking about our duty to receive the intended message, and and as I was talking about, like in the context of different genres, it's like it influences what genre it is and how you read those words.
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But even just using a silly example like this, uh, I could tell people that our church's fall festival and trunk retreat starts at 5 30 and leave out the PM in that message, and technically they could receive that message and say, he must mean 5 30 a.m.
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now.
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That would not be properly receiving that message.
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There's a lot of context that would make it obvious that it's not a 5 30 a.m.
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start for that event.
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Uh, we do that event every year and it's always at night.
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And just kind of like the way that events work in our culture, things don't start at 5.30 in the morning.
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And so technically, hypothetically, you could receive that message as 5 30 a.m., but that would be improperly receiving that message.
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You should consider the context, you should consider the intention.
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And another example is I I'll tell people, I text you and say, Hey, I'm I'm going to a board meeting.
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You could technically say, Well, I guess he's meeting with a group of planks of wood, because that's uh that word technically can mean, but obviously that's not what it means.
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And so we have a responsibility as people receiving a message to receive the message that was intended to be sent.
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And so when you don't take people's words and actions in the kindest possible way, it frankly often hurts communication because you're not receiving the message they intended.
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And and and at times I think people's manipulation is their intentions are sinister.
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Yeah.
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Uh, I think they don't want to take people's message in the clear sense or in in the most charitable sense, because often there's some sort of reason why they want to be upset about what the person said.
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Yeah.
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And now I'm gonna preface what I'm about to say in connection to what you said by saying we understand there is a duty towards it, precision in language and intentionality, and making sure you say the things that you mean in the clearest way, and proofreading and editing things that you write on the part of the communicator.
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But we're talking now about the role of the receiver of the information, and to give that warning to say do not intentionally misunderstand and really try to dig into this is what this person said.
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Uh, this is the context in which he said it.
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How should I properly understand it?
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I think, in connection to that thing called cancel culture, this has been a big example of intentional misunderstanding.
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So, on one hand, you could go back and say, like you look at the tweets of an athlete when they were 15 years old and say they they never should have tweeted those things or said those things.
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You can look at jokes that maybe comedians make and say they shouldn't have made that joke.
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But then the difficulty of approaching these things and saying, I'm going to hold the the tweets of a professional athlete when he was 15 years old to the standards of himself when he's 30 in our current day, rather than understanding the context in which it was tweeted and saying, like, yeah, that was wrong.
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But I I think even that has a level of intentional misunderstanding.
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Or if you have a joke given, or a lack of charitableness.
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Yeah.
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And maybe that's what it is, is we don't just need to strive to understand, but we also want to add a level of charity towards understanding at times when it is appropriate.
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And I know there will be people who will say, well, silence is violence and words are hurtful and all that type of stuff, to say, like, that's propagating a system in which words like that are made to be viewed okay.
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And that's a whole that's another conversation too.
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I I understand that.
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But just to say, let's be careful and cautious that we don't withhold charity to understanding, even when there are the blunders that that happen or the things that people say that are very questionable, so that we can say, what is the reason that this was said, when was it said, why was it said?
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And I think that can be really helpful in relationship with people.
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And and so with taking people's words and actions in the kindest possible way, putting the best construction on it, I think can include saying, yes, like you're saying, this was wrong, but for X, Y, and Z reasons, it's perhaps understandable and then showing them charity, or even not necessarily understandable, but like I I get it.
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This is a sinful world, and people do sinful things.
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And so I'll I'll use this example of you're you're out at the store and you just see like the worker just being rude to people, and you can choose to to get upset about it, or you can choose to kind of put yourself into their situation, into their shoes, and and be charitable and take their words and actions in the kindest possible way.
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Like they're probably mad about something else.
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It's probably not intended to be a direct slight at you.
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Maybe something's going on at home that's making them stressed.
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And so I think we can even talk about like kind of giving them the same grace that we would expect extended to us.
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And and so that goes back to that idea before the golden rule, do it to others as you would have them do to you.
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We want people to express or to give us charity, to give us grace with our words for when we fall short, and let's do the same with them, let's offer that forgiveness, even if they said something that was wrong, but then also to not automatically assume that it was wrong, because that's what how we would want people to interact if if the roles were reversed.
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And so it it is obviously a hard thing to do because we so instantly react.
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But again, we are motivated to do this because our Lord Jesus Christ has so freely and graciously loved us, and and we love because he first loved us, and so God shows grace and forgiveness, and we show grace and forgiveness in response to that.
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Yeah.
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I like the idea of saying put yourself in their shoes and just think about like if I were in that situation, how would I be acting and why would I be acting that way?
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Are there other reasons to explain what's going on?
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I remember a a wise woman from my previous congregation would talk about the encouragement if she'd get mad at someone in traffic to think about usually she would say, I I just assumed like they were heading to the hospital.
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She would just assume something was going on.
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And that was her way of trying to take their actions in the best possible way.
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I don't know if you ever read the book Low Anthropology by Dave.
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I did all.
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So I think that can be helpful as well.
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So if we look at people with what he calls a low anthropology, this a low view of humanity in a sense can actually be helpful to uplifting our view of other people.
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So we have this proper understanding of original sin, right?
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That Adam was created in God's image, but the image of God was marred within humanity.
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And then their son Seth was born in his father's image, which meant sinful.
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And David writes in the Psalm, surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.
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We have this sin passed on from generation to generation.
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Original sin is that lack of true righteousness and this innate desire to sin.
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So if you look at everyone and say, even Christians, like the material of original sin remains with them, to have that kind of baseline understanding that there are going to be sinful things that people do, and not to be all that surprised when sinful people do sinful things.
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And then I think that can help us have kind of that proper approach to someone.
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So then it helps us have a gracious approach to them.
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So when they when the things happen to understand, okay, a sinful person does sinful things, and that's gonna that's gonna happen.
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Now, again, not understanding, like, oh well, well, sin's not that big of a deal.
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Sin is still a big deal, but it helps us approach this with a true understanding tied to that as well.
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I would say to also recognize that the total depravity of the world, to say that all of creation is is affected by the ramifications of sin.
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So you have a sinful person living in a world that is corrupted by sin, and say, there's a pretty good chance that there is a reason that that person that clerk is acting rude to you.
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Yeah.
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Is it just this is a sinful person who needs to hear God's law and receive Christ's grace?
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Or is it this a per is this a person who experienced the curse of sin and death is just reeling from that pain?
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So that those things can also help us approach people with a charitable manner.
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And then I think to a degree even stronger, we need to extend this especially to our fellow believers.
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And it makes me think of the Apostle Paul talking about lost roots among believers, and like if you can't figure out this amongst you, you're already lost.
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You need the unbelieving world to judge you.
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And so just kind of this idea that uh we are to be family in the faith, and we are to be able to talk to each other in love, communicate with one another, and kind of figure this out.
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And so, if someone did do something that you perceived as a slight and you go to church with them, they're your fellow Christian, you should be able to just talk to them about it and get this stuff figured out versus the getting angry and then holding a grudge against them would be certainly inappropriate among the family of believers.
00:25:09.200 --> 00:25:18.240
And so I I think to talk about the person out in the community, this certainly applies, but then even more so among believers, among family of faith.
00:25:18.400 --> 00:25:36.559
And and I think just even something as as silly as like the way we're dressed right now, sometimes the way the pastor dresses becomes a big point of of conversation for people, and they'll they'll start to assume things one way or another, whether someone's wearing a collar or they're wearing a polo.
00:25:36.720 --> 00:25:44.640
And there's not always that that grace or that charity extended to that person to consider like like why might they be doing this.
00:25:44.799 --> 00:25:46.319
And and it goes both ways.
00:25:46.640 --> 00:26:08.079
It goes to the the high church side or the low church side to use those terms, where people kind of assume the worst of each other, and and unfortunately, this can even happen among pastors and and teachers where they're not extending that that charity to one another and saying, like, well, what's the what's their reason?
00:26:08.160 --> 00:26:09.839
And and then let's talk through it.
00:26:09.920 --> 00:26:28.000
And so this isn't a uh context trumps all and people get to do whatever they want, type of conversation, but it is a a conversation to say, like, hey, someone might have a legitimate reason for why they're doing what they're doing, and I don't have the right to just assume the worst.
00:26:28.160 --> 00:26:40.000
Yeah, and so it's like, oh, the person's wearing a collar, it must be an ego thing, or the person's wearing uh joggers and a t-shirt, so he must not care.
00:26:40.319 --> 00:26:54.079
Um, like you could you could see how this can be such a negative thing so quickly, and so to express that kind of charity that we're talking about, especially to our fellow believers.
00:26:54.240 --> 00:26:54.640
Yeah.
00:26:54.880 --> 00:27:02.720
And I think there's also room for saying that the charity could be that looks like an improper practice to me.
00:27:02.960 --> 00:27:07.680
I but he I I know he's a faithful Christian.
00:27:08.319 --> 00:27:10.079
He must not have thought this through.
00:27:10.319 --> 00:27:11.359
Or like that can be terrible.
00:27:11.519 --> 00:27:12.559
Or at least talk to the charity.
00:27:12.799 --> 00:27:14.880
Yeah, that can be the charitable thing to say.
00:27:14.960 --> 00:27:22.079
Like, you know, I think if we if I talk to him, he would understand and perhaps even alter that practice.
00:27:22.160 --> 00:27:22.319
Yeah.
00:27:22.559 --> 00:27:30.319
So just to assume like this isn't something done out of willful disobedience or anything like that.
00:27:30.400 --> 00:27:40.720
But it's as like, you know, if I talk through this with him, he might actually change his perspective on it or or give his reason why to bring it into the local church context.
00:27:40.799 --> 00:27:46.480
We had a nice conversation about this during our Romans Bible study on Sunday morning.
00:27:46.720 --> 00:27:54.480
So we were in chapter 12 of Romans, which is just a string of exhortations of do this, do this, do this.
00:27:54.960 --> 00:28:05.920
And well, one of the things we talked about was the what's sometimes called the 80-20 rule about 80% of the work is done by 20% of the people.
00:28:06.160 --> 00:28:16.559
And one of the members shared a caution, and then I kind of riffed on it, about being careful about complaining about other people not doing enough.
00:28:16.960 --> 00:28:19.680
Because there's a very good chance you don't know what they're doing.
00:28:19.759 --> 00:28:20.319
Yeah.
00:28:20.559 --> 00:28:23.680
I don't let your left hand know what your right hand is doing.
00:28:23.920 --> 00:28:31.759
There's a very good chance that they are doing things that are serving God in wonderful ways, and you're just not aware of it.
00:28:31.920 --> 00:28:39.440
Uh, so there would be an encouragement, I think, for other Christians is don't assume other Christians are lacking fruit of faith.
00:28:39.599 --> 00:28:39.920
Yeah.
00:28:40.079 --> 00:28:47.039
Uh, but instead approach them looking and like assume the Holy Spirit is working in and through you.
00:28:47.359 --> 00:28:49.119
You are doing these things.
00:28:49.279 --> 00:28:56.079
And I think that can help us in our caution to not complain about the other people at church who don't do any.
00:28:56.400 --> 00:29:06.240
And then with the example that you gave about perhaps it shows itself in like hoping to explain the the potential problem to the individual.
00:29:06.400 --> 00:29:08.240
I think the same thing in that situation.
00:29:08.480 --> 00:29:24.400
If you legitimately think that the your fellow member of the church is sinfully uninvolved, maybe it's their their regular regular missing of worship and other issues you might see.
00:29:24.640 --> 00:29:42.880
Again, the duty then wouldn't be to talk behind their back or just to be angry about it in your mind, would but if you truly loved them and you thought this was actually a sin problem, it would be to talk to them and and and probably approach it, certainly approach it from that sense of like, hey, is everything okay?
00:29:43.039 --> 00:29:54.720
And so even as like a pastor, when someone hasn't been to church for a long time, and I'm trying to reach out to them to to give them the charity and and first ask, like, hey, how are you doing?
00:29:55.359 --> 00:30:05.200
Because there are there have been more than a few times where someone's like, Yeah, I was in the hospital recently and I've been recovering.
00:30:05.759 --> 00:30:06.640
Well, great.
00:30:06.799 --> 00:30:07.920
Thanks for letting me know.
00:30:08.400 --> 00:30:09.359
Would you like a visit?
00:30:09.759 --> 00:30:14.240
And so if I come out guns blazing, you haven't been to church four weeks in a row, where have you been?
00:30:14.720 --> 00:30:16.880
That is just going to cause hurt.
00:30:17.039 --> 00:30:25.440
Whereas you come with that that posture of curiosity and you're able to figure out, oh, look, there was a legitimate reason that they weren't here.
00:30:25.759 --> 00:30:39.440
And so if that's your struggle with a fellow believer and people struggle with that Pareto principle, 80% of the work is done by 20% of the people, well, if you actually think it's a sin problem, don't automatically assume those, but talk to them about it.
00:30:39.839 --> 00:30:43.680
And I think that's where it would be good to transition a little bit.
00:30:43.839 --> 00:30:47.680
So if it's a if it's a Christian, you can assume the Holy Spirit's working in and through them.
00:30:47.759 --> 00:30:55.119
If this is a sin problem, I have a proper instruction to confront my brother or sister who is caught in sin.
00:30:55.279 --> 00:30:58.960
Jesus gives very clear instruction on that in Matthew chapter 18.
00:30:59.119 --> 00:31:00.960
But what about the unbeliever?
00:31:01.200 --> 00:31:13.039
I think this is where it might be a little bit more challenging to say that's this person is not a Christian, or maybe based off of the things they've said, I've now deduced that I can't deem them a Christian anymore.
00:31:13.359 --> 00:31:23.039
Is it my duty to take their words and actions in the kindest possible way when actually that person can't even act do anything good and pleasing in God's sight?
00:31:23.279 --> 00:31:23.680
Yeah.
00:31:24.000 --> 00:31:38.400
I I think in one sense there is an a needed understanding of of what we'd call civic righteousness, that unbelievers are still capable of doing acts of civic righteousness, things that are helpful to their neighbor.
00:31:38.559 --> 00:31:46.240
And and so I I do think just because they're an unbeliever doesn't mean that everything is going to be directly harmful to their neighbor.
00:31:46.559 --> 00:31:51.279
So I think that's one thing that's worth worth considering in this conversation.
00:31:51.519 --> 00:32:01.279
But I I think eventually you do need to be willing to say that in some situations there are other principles that are at play.
00:32:01.920 --> 00:32:18.000
Whether it's the protection of life or the protection of property, so Fifth Commandment, Seventh Commandment type issues with the implicit implicit idea that you need to protect yourself and and and so you need to be as shrewd as Vipers.
00:32:18.240 --> 00:32:21.440
So there is that that both that tension.
00:32:21.599 --> 00:32:23.680
And so here's here's an example.
00:32:24.400 --> 00:32:32.720
We have security cameras at our church because sometimes crime occurs on our church campus.
00:32:32.880 --> 00:32:33.839
It's happened.
00:32:34.079 --> 00:32:38.640
We we have had people who have broken in or whatever else it might be.
00:32:38.880 --> 00:32:51.440
And and so is that not taking people's words and actions in the kindest possible way by having security cameras and a security system and locking your doors, or is that protecting the gifts that God has given you?
00:32:51.759 --> 00:33:00.640
I would say it's protecting the gifts that God has given you because what has been become apparent in our world today is that sinful people do sinful things.
00:33:00.799 --> 00:33:06.720
And so you balance the taking people's words and actions in the kindest possible way with other principles in Scripture.
00:33:07.039 --> 00:33:07.279
Yeah.
00:33:07.359 --> 00:33:15.440
Yeah, and I think this is can even be applied to the the Christians in the church as well to say Christians are capable of sin.
00:33:15.599 --> 00:33:19.519
And that's why I'm gonna have a policy for counting money.
00:33:19.680 --> 00:33:33.440
That's why I'm gonna have a child protective policy, like recognize that Christians are capable of doing sinful things and uh unbelievers are capable of lying and pretending to be Christians to get themselves into the organization.
00:33:34.079 --> 00:33:47.200
So it is a it is a difficult balance to strike where we say, on this personal level, I want to take someone's words and actions in the kindest possible way, but maybe more on the corporate level.
00:33:47.440 --> 00:33:53.599
And that's where we're gonna have uh have these policies in place that don't assume that, right?
00:33:53.759 --> 00:33:58.559
Like, does your kitchen need to have rules that say after you use a dish, wash it?
00:33:58.720 --> 00:34:04.640
You might say, oh, I can just assume that a Christian's going to wash that dish or the person renting our facility is gonna wash the dish.
00:34:05.039 --> 00:34:12.400
But that's where maybe I'd say like personal level, take someone's words and actions in the kindest possible way.
00:34:12.639 --> 00:34:19.760
Corporate organizational, maybe some of those policies need not assume that in the same way.
00:34:20.079 --> 00:34:22.960
Yeah, and you think first use of the law type thoughts as well.
00:34:23.119 --> 00:34:32.159
God has kind of structured our world that laws are to be used, and even the threat of punishment for the providing of good order and peace.
00:34:32.320 --> 00:34:41.440
And so that is a blessing from our God when when structure is used to give us a peaceful living situation.
00:34:41.920 --> 00:34:49.039
And so this doesn't mean that we are naive or that we just blindly trust everyone no matter what.
00:34:49.199 --> 00:35:00.880
Like you said, we we have multiple counters, we we keep the money in a bank, we do these protective things to consider multiple principles at play.
00:35:01.119 --> 00:35:11.360
But I think we are particularly highlighting an issue that our world faces because people are so prone to not taking people's words in the kindest possible way.
00:35:11.599 --> 00:35:17.039
And and so I know uh we've got to wrap up a little early today because we've got our pastor's conference soon here.
00:35:17.199 --> 00:35:34.880
But I just wanted to share one quick thought about how we're maybe even more susceptible than ever because of the social media internet world we live in, that everything has been reduced to clickbait is maybe the word that you'd use for it.
00:35:35.199 --> 00:35:38.239
People want provocative thoughts.
00:35:38.400 --> 00:35:43.760
That's that's what drives engagement, and this has really shaped the way that we see the world.
00:35:43.920 --> 00:35:50.239
And so someone might take a just a short clip from something someone said, and then that's the story.
00:35:50.320 --> 00:36:08.639
And no one goes beyond the title, no one goes beyond the short clip to see what is actually said or what the whole story is, and that's even the temptation for like face or for social media or not social media, like YouTube podcasts and stuff, is that people want clickbait.
00:36:08.800 --> 00:36:30.800
And so I Brian Wolfmiller was talking about this in a recent podcast on on the line, and he was talking about that that temptation that that Lutherans might have to just produce content that's clickable that that drives up engagement, but sometimes what's clickable and drives up engagement isn't really what's most helpful.
00:36:31.119 --> 00:36:34.480
And and so I think that could even be a part of this conversation.
00:36:34.719 --> 00:36:48.960
We're shaped by this desire for engagement, and a desire for engagement's not always honest because it is lucrative when you present something that that is shocking.
00:36:49.119 --> 00:36:51.519
It's like you think the rage bait idea.
00:36:52.400 --> 00:36:55.920
Yeah, I think that that's a good balance to put on it.
00:36:56.960 --> 00:37:20.639
To say, like, because of that desire in our society, if I hear a very inflammatory clip of someone speaking or excerpt taken and put in a headline to say, all right, now I want to reserve my judgment until I look into this a little bit further, because we we have grown into a very sensationalized age.
00:37:20.960 --> 00:37:29.440
That also makes me think about the amount of false news stories that are put under under the guise of satire on social media.
00:37:36.480 --> 00:37:40.320
Is that just a lie meant to farm engagement?
00:37:40.639 --> 00:37:56.079
And there's a difference between the onion or the Babylon B, which is a very obvious intentional satire effort, versus these accounts that you wouldn't know that they were actually satire unless you clicked onto the profile and got into their page.
00:37:56.480 --> 00:38:04.880
And it's like those accounts actually seem like they're more trying to spread in misinformation, disinformation and sensationalize things.
00:38:05.039 --> 00:38:05.199
Yeah.
00:38:05.440 --> 00:38:30.000
And that's why I'd I'd probably give a stronger encouragement with the principle of taking someone's words and actions in the kindest possible way to apply that on a personal individual basis, is even with persons that you don't know know on like a personal level, such as politicians and media figures.
00:38:30.239 --> 00:38:42.719
But when then when it comes to maybe more of the the corporate or the social media page things, mm, I would even urge further caution and not just assume they're telling the truth, right?
00:38:43.119 --> 00:38:43.840
But to be discerning.
00:38:44.159 --> 00:38:44.800
To be discerning.
00:38:44.880 --> 00:38:49.360
Then that's where an area that discernment would be well used.
00:38:49.760 --> 00:38:49.920
Yeah.
00:38:50.079 --> 00:38:52.880
And proper discernment could be its own episode.
00:38:53.119 --> 00:38:56.239
But we probably do need to get going here with our pastors conference.
00:38:56.639 --> 00:39:02.000
So we encourage you uh to engage with conversation with other people.
00:39:02.239 --> 00:39:15.440
Uh, as you listen to them, strive to take their words and actions in the best possible way, putting the best construction on it as you look to engage in conversation in a way that glorifies our God.
00:39:15.920 --> 00:39:17.039
God bless.
00:00:00.479 --> 00:00:16.079
If you are scrolling through social media and you go into the comment section on a particular post, you will often see people taking the worst construction on another person's words.
00:00:16.480 --> 00:00:31.280
Or this even happens in the formal newsroom where there will be news stories about something someone said, and they will report on what seems to be their misunderstanding of that individual's words.
00:00:31.679 --> 00:00:40.640
Today we want to take into consideration what is our duty to strive to understand what other people are saying.
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In Martin Luther's explanation of the eighth commandment, it is said a few different ways in English translations, but it's essentially essentially to take other people's words and actions in the kindest possible way.
00:00:59.119 --> 00:01:03.439
So today in our podcast, we're going to talk about that very thing.
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What do you do when someone says something that says wrong, that sounds wrong?
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Do you strive to understand it in the best possible way, or do you assume the worst?
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This is Double Portion, a podcast where twin Lutheran pastors discuss the intersection of Christian living and the study of scriptures.
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My name is Chris Flughaft.
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I'm the pastor at Grace Lutheran Church in Yorbelinda, and I'm joined by Tony Flugeft, the pastor at Christ the Vine Lutheran Church in Temecula.
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Perhaps you've seen these things online, even assertions made, like even the fact that I thought that's what he might have meant shows that there's a problem with what's going on.
00:02:05.280 --> 00:02:10.719
It seems that people struggle with taking others' words and actions in the kindest possible way.
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Yeah, and so as Lutheran Christians, we know that this is our responsibility to take people's words and actions in the kindest possible way, with the best construction on what they're saying.
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Now, we obviously we balance what scripture says.
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Jesus tells us to be as innocent as doves and as shrewd as vipers, and so this doesn't mean that we are to go and be taken advantage of and not consider what could be the underlying truth behind the words that someone speaks.
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At the same time, we do have that general position of taking their words and actions in the kindest possible way.
00:02:51.280 --> 00:03:12.639
And so what you mentioned is one of my biggest pet peeves is someone will get upset about something that was said online about by a politician, by a celebrity, by a friend, even, and then they'll kind of say, like, well, the fact that I even thought, so they they maybe find out what they thought was wrong.
00:03:12.800 --> 00:03:17.120
Well, the fact that I even thought that this is what the person meant is really telling.
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And it's like, well, is it really telling that you thought that?
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That what you think does not actually necessarily reflect on their intention and their meaning.
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And so that's kind of a it's a lazy argument.
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Well, I it's even telling that I thought that.
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This is a major issue, especially in the realm of of politics, where people don't seem interested, and this is both right and left, don't seem interested in actually receiving the message the person intends to deliver, but rather they're more concerned about fitting that message into their preconceived notions and and then they get upset about that.
00:04:02.159 --> 00:04:13.039
And and so I think this is one major realm, is as you talk about online, getting mad about things that politicians or celebrities or whoever might it might be says.
00:04:13.360 --> 00:04:22.480
But we as Christians want to to be charitable towards others, and and I think that's something we need to talk about.
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Well, how can we train ourselves to do that?
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Maybe talk about why we want to do that, but then also maybe we could get into later, like some exceptional cases that I mentioned before.
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We are as shrewd as Vipers, but did you want to expand upon that thought a little more?
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It doesn't just happen in the online realm or in these parasocial relationships where you know that person deeply through online rhetoric, but you don't actually know them at all.
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It happens in our uh in real life relationships on a daily basis.
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Maybe the stereotype one is the in-law relationship, where it's often a uh son-in-law with a mother-in-law or a daughter-in-law with the mother-in-law.
00:05:05.839 --> 00:05:13.199
It usually is with the mother-in-law, it seems, in the way that people talk about it, although I'm sure the father-in-law can play a role too.
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But it seems like the things that are said are not properly understood, or the worst construction is put on it.
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The mother-in-law says, Why don't you ever bring my uh grandchildren around?
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And then the daughter-in-law can receive that as an insult.
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And maybe that wasn't constructed in the best possible way.
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But rather than just assuming, oh, well, she loves her grandchildren and she wants to see them, you hear these stories, and it's like, oh, she's accusing me of not doing enough.
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Or often what people will get mad on is say, like, you must not think I'm very busy, and aren't you have all the time in the world?
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Can't you come visit me?
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So a lot of times people become self-protective.
00:06:01.839 --> 00:06:19.439
What they'll hear something someone says, they'll maybe respond in their own pride, but it's shown in false humility pride type where they you know get offended that this person's attacking me, and then that might lead them there.
00:06:19.680 --> 00:06:26.959
But kind of looping that back together of what I was saying is this isn't just a parasocial relationship with online figureheads.
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This is something that affects our day-to-day living.
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Yeah.
00:06:30.720 --> 00:06:49.839
And even if it is just your online persona, that still impacts the way that you live because people are often getting upset and angry about these things, and then they talk about it with their friends, and you think the way that people talk about politics, and then they get upset about it, and it riles them up, and they need to go and talk to someone else.
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And so even if it isn't your day-to-day life, you're still getting impacted by this.
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But then also, like you said, those everyday relationships, uh, people don't always take their loved ones' words and actions in the kindest possible way.
00:07:03.600 --> 00:07:34.240
And in a marital relationship, this is huge, where I think a lot of people take marital conflict as as something that is to be won, and they can get very upset with the their spouse, and this upset being this anger combined with the desire to to win can lead people to be dishonest about the other person's intentions or not be charitable about the other person's intentions.
00:07:34.399 --> 00:07:43.040
And so I know when we did an episode on love, we read 1 Corinthians 13, and I think this would be another section, another time that it'd be appropriate to read part of this.
00:07:43.360 --> 00:07:44.720
Verses for and following.
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Love is patient, love is kind, it does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud, it does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.
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Love does not delight in evil, but rejoices with the truth.
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It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
00:08:02.720 --> 00:08:12.000
So there's a handful of issues that connect from this section to this idea of taking people's words and actions in the kindest possible way.
00:08:12.319 --> 00:08:16.079
Generally speaking, you're not being patient with the individual.
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You're quickly jumping to conclusions and getting upset.
00:08:20.879 --> 00:08:26.160
Generally speaking, it can include pride as we talked about before.
00:08:26.480 --> 00:08:31.839
Generally speaking, it it certainly, more than generally speaking, it dishonors others.
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It's not treating them as with the same love and respect and honor that you desire to be treated.
00:08:38.559 --> 00:08:40.559
And we can get into that thought a little bit more.
00:08:40.799 --> 00:08:47.600
Jesus' golden rule, do unto others as you would have them do to you, I think is really applicable and this idea.
00:08:47.840 --> 00:08:53.120
Often take people's words and actions not in the greatest way is self-seeking.
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And it says love is not self-seeking, it's it's being easily angered.
00:08:57.519 --> 00:09:06.480
It's certainly keeping a record of wrongs, because it is the record of wrongs previously that probably leads you to not be charitable in your interactions.
00:09:06.720 --> 00:09:14.559
So there's a lot of food for thought from 1 Corinthians 13 that impacts our our our thoughts about this.
00:09:14.960 --> 00:09:21.440
It is not loving at the end of the day to not take people's words and actions in the kindest possible way.
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Yeah, and to think not just about our love for our neighbor and our family members, but also our love for God.
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And then when I think of our love for God and how we desire to demonstrate our love for him through our words and actions, I can't help but think about how the very nature of God is truth.
00:09:41.120 --> 00:09:45.840
So Jesus says, sanctify them by the truth, your word is truth in John 17, 17.
00:09:45.919 --> 00:09:51.039
And he he calls liars children of the devil because the devil is the father of lies.
00:09:51.120 --> 00:09:52.159
He created lies.
00:09:52.559 --> 00:09:55.440
There is no a deceit in our God.
00:09:56.399 --> 00:10:08.399
And at the end of the day, maybe maybe you might call it intentional misunderstanding of another person or negligent misunderstanding.
00:10:09.440 --> 00:10:13.919
What is that other than a cherishing of deceit?
00:10:14.080 --> 00:10:14.320
Yeah.
00:10:14.639 --> 00:10:33.679
It's approaching a situation, not seeking the truth, but instead, usually for sinful reasons, perhaps just a result of sinful apathy towards the situation, it results in you misunderstanding the other person, and it can often be in a malicious way.
00:10:33.919 --> 00:10:40.799
Now, I I think this is a little bit of a result of the current era that we live in.
00:10:40.960 --> 00:10:43.039
So we're at a pastor's conference.
00:10:43.120 --> 00:10:54.240
You might be able to tell that we're recording from a pastor's conference right now, and on the airplane over yesterday, I was reading a book that you've read before, Authentic Christianity by Sutton and Vith.
00:10:54.559 --> 00:11:06.240
And then in this, they're talking about the end of modernism and the beginning of postmodernism and moving out of postmodernism, even, and what that means.
00:11:06.559 --> 00:11:19.679
But people have heard of the idea of this kind of relative truth pushed by postmodernism, this idea that the what's true for you isn't necessarily true for me.
00:11:20.480 --> 00:11:27.840
And that type of thinking can impact how we understand anything.
00:11:28.159 --> 00:11:43.120
Because you think if you have that very prideful view of understanding to say like something can be true just because it's my perception of it, well, then how does that impact how we hear other people?
00:11:43.279 --> 00:11:43.519
Yeah.
00:11:43.759 --> 00:11:50.080
So imagine your wife uh says, Oh, you look very nice today, honey.
00:11:50.320 --> 00:11:56.320
And then in your mind, it's like, well, she didn't say I look handsome or thin or today, how about yesterday?
00:11:56.639 --> 00:12:00.799
So then you you you could totally misconstrue what she said.
00:12:01.120 --> 00:12:17.919
And then if you have this very prideful understanding of I dictate what's true in the moment, that can totally destroy your interaction with that person and understanding of what they mean.
00:12:18.240 --> 00:12:30.799
So I think as people who love God and who want to love and serve Him and recognize that truth is in the very nature of God, that we want to strive for truth in our lives.
00:12:30.960 --> 00:12:47.759
Not just how we speak, the Bible says enough about speaking truth, but also in how we strive to understand, and we want to strive to understand people in the truest sense and recognizing we're interacting with fallible, sinful people.
00:12:48.000 --> 00:13:13.360
There will be even times when someone speaks in a confusing way that could be understood in an improper way, but you're gonna approach that and say, if I can have clues towards their intentions, that's going to lead me towards saying this is what's true, and because I love the truth, I'm going to understand them in that true sense.
00:13:13.519 --> 00:13:13.840
Yeah.
00:13:14.080 --> 00:13:22.320
So in our Bible study, we've been I've we've been going through a critique of dispensational premillennialism.
00:13:22.480 --> 00:13:44.080
And one of the issues that we would have with the dispensationalist premillennialist approach to scripture is with their hermeneutic and particularly in apocalyptic literature, the sections of scripture that use this fantastic images to communicate messages, particularly about the end times.
00:13:44.240 --> 00:13:47.600
And and we'll say they they read it literalistically.
00:13:47.840 --> 00:13:51.200
And I was kind of explaining how we read scripture.
00:13:51.360 --> 00:13:56.480
Scripture is written in different genres, and you approach different genres differently.
00:13:56.720 --> 00:14:06.879
So you approach a narrative different than you would approach a formal first uh first-person correspondence versus that apocalyptic literature versus poetry.
00:14:07.039 --> 00:14:14.720
And as someone who's receiving a message, it is your duty to see what the person intended.
00:14:14.960 --> 00:14:23.360
And now, within this postmodern world, there are people who have deconstructed language to the point where they kind of claim you can't know what anyone means.
00:14:23.440 --> 00:14:36.960
Uh, we're gonna deny that premise and say that communication and language was given to us as a gift from God and we can know what people mean, and it is our job to figure out what they mean to say.
00:14:37.200 --> 00:14:50.480
And so I use this example when talking about our duty to receive the intended message, and and as I was talking about, like in the context of different genres, it's like it influences what genre it is and how you read those words.
00:14:50.720 --> 00:15:09.360
But even just using a silly example like this, uh, I could tell people that our church's fall festival and trunk retreat starts at 5 30 and leave out the PM in that message, and technically they could receive that message and say, he must mean 5 30 a.m.
00:15:10.399 --> 00:15:10.720
now.
00:15:11.600 --> 00:15:14.320
That would not be properly receiving that message.
00:15:14.639 --> 00:15:19.600
There's a lot of context that would make it obvious that it's not a 5 30 a.m.
00:15:19.840 --> 00:15:20.960
start for that event.
00:15:21.120 --> 00:15:24.159
Uh, we do that event every year and it's always at night.
00:15:24.720 --> 00:15:32.159
And just kind of like the way that events work in our culture, things don't start at 5.30 in the morning.
00:15:32.320 --> 00:15:40.399
And so technically, hypothetically, you could receive that message as 5 30 a.m., but that would be improperly receiving that message.
00:15:40.480 --> 00:15:44.240
You should consider the context, you should consider the intention.
00:15:44.559 --> 00:15:50.879
And another example is I I'll tell people, I text you and say, Hey, I'm I'm going to a board meeting.
00:15:51.120 --> 00:16:00.960
You could technically say, Well, I guess he's meeting with a group of planks of wood, because that's uh that word technically can mean, but obviously that's not what it means.
00:16:01.120 --> 00:16:07.679
And so we have a responsibility as people receiving a message to receive the message that was intended to be sent.
00:16:07.840 --> 00:16:17.440
And so when you don't take people's words and actions in the kindest possible way, it frankly often hurts communication because you're not receiving the message they intended.
00:16:17.600 --> 00:16:26.639
And and and at times I think people's manipulation is their intentions are sinister.
00:16:26.720 --> 00:16:26.879
Yeah.
00:16:27.039 --> 00:16:40.559
Uh, I think they don't want to take people's message in the clear sense or in in the most charitable sense, because often there's some sort of reason why they want to be upset about what the person said.
00:16:40.799 --> 00:16:41.039
Yeah.
00:16:41.200 --> 00:17:01.039
And now I'm gonna preface what I'm about to say in connection to what you said by saying we understand there is a duty towards it, precision in language and intentionality, and making sure you say the things that you mean in the clearest way, and proofreading and editing things that you write on the part of the communicator.
00:17:01.200 --> 00:17:18.720
But we're talking now about the role of the receiver of the information, and to give that warning to say do not intentionally misunderstand and really try to dig into this is what this person said.
00:17:19.039 --> 00:17:21.759
Uh, this is the context in which he said it.
00:17:22.000 --> 00:17:24.960
How should I properly understand it?
00:17:25.200 --> 00:17:35.920
I think, in connection to that thing called cancel culture, this has been a big example of intentional misunderstanding.
00:17:36.079 --> 00:17:45.759
So, on one hand, you could go back and say, like you look at the tweets of an athlete when they were 15 years old and say they they never should have tweeted those things or said those things.
00:17:45.920 --> 00:17:50.960
You can look at jokes that maybe comedians make and say they shouldn't have made that joke.
00:17:51.200 --> 00:18:11.920
But then the difficulty of approaching these things and saying, I'm going to hold the the tweets of a professional athlete when he was 15 years old to the standards of himself when he's 30 in our current day, rather than understanding the context in which it was tweeted and saying, like, yeah, that was wrong.
00:18:12.160 --> 00:18:16.799
But I I think even that has a level of intentional misunderstanding.
00:18:16.960 --> 00:18:19.920
Or if you have a joke given, or a lack of charitableness.
00:18:20.240 --> 00:18:20.559
Yeah.
00:18:20.799 --> 00:18:35.359
And maybe that's what it is, is we don't just need to strive to understand, but we also want to add a level of charity towards understanding at times when it is appropriate.
00:18:35.519 --> 00:18:48.559
And I know there will be people who will say, well, silence is violence and words are hurtful and all that type of stuff, to say, like, that's propagating a system in which words like that are made to be viewed okay.
00:18:48.720 --> 00:18:51.039
And that's a whole that's another conversation too.
00:18:51.200 --> 00:18:52.240
I I understand that.
00:18:52.400 --> 00:19:14.880
But just to say, let's be careful and cautious that we don't withhold charity to understanding, even when there are the blunders that that happen or the things that people say that are very questionable, so that we can say, what is the reason that this was said, when was it said, why was it said?
00:19:14.960 --> 00:19:18.880
And I think that can be really helpful in relationship with people.
00:19:19.119 --> 00:19:39.519
And and so with taking people's words and actions in the kindest possible way, putting the best construction on it, I think can include saying, yes, like you're saying, this was wrong, but for X, Y, and Z reasons, it's perhaps understandable and then showing them charity, or even not necessarily understandable, but like I I get it.
00:19:39.920 --> 00:19:43.200
This is a sinful world, and people do sinful things.
00:19:43.440 --> 00:20:08.640
And so I'll I'll use this example of you're you're out at the store and you just see like the worker just being rude to people, and you can choose to to get upset about it, or you can choose to kind of put yourself into their situation, into their shoes, and and be charitable and take their words and actions in the kindest possible way.
00:20:08.799 --> 00:20:11.440
Like they're probably mad about something else.
00:20:11.599 --> 00:20:14.480
It's probably not intended to be a direct slight at you.
00:20:14.720 --> 00:20:17.680
Maybe something's going on at home that's making them stressed.
00:20:17.839 --> 00:20:25.759
And so I think we can even talk about like kind of giving them the same grace that we would expect extended to us.
00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:31.359
And and so that goes back to that idea before the golden rule, do it to others as you would have them do to you.
00:20:31.680 --> 00:20:56.319
We want people to express or to give us charity, to give us grace with our words for when we fall short, and let's do the same with them, let's offer that forgiveness, even if they said something that was wrong, but then also to not automatically assume that it was wrong, because that's what how we would want people to interact if if the roles were reversed.
00:20:56.720 --> 00:21:03.200
And so it it is obviously a hard thing to do because we so instantly react.
00:21:03.519 --> 00:21:21.200
But again, we are motivated to do this because our Lord Jesus Christ has so freely and graciously loved us, and and we love because he first loved us, and so God shows grace and forgiveness, and we show grace and forgiveness in response to that.
00:21:21.440 --> 00:21:21.599
Yeah.
00:21:21.759 --> 00:21:31.119
I like the idea of saying put yourself in their shoes and just think about like if I were in that situation, how would I be acting and why would I be acting that way?
00:21:31.359 --> 00:21:34.400
Are there other reasons to explain what's going on?
00:21:34.480 --> 00:21:47.200
I remember a a wise woman from my previous congregation would talk about the encouragement if she'd get mad at someone in traffic to think about usually she would say, I I just assumed like they were heading to the hospital.
00:21:47.359 --> 00:21:49.920
She would just assume something was going on.
00:21:50.160 --> 00:21:55.839
And that was her way of trying to take their actions in the best possible way.
00:21:56.079 --> 00:21:58.799
I don't know if you ever read the book Low Anthropology by Dave.
00:21:59.119 --> 00:21:59.839
I did all.
00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:03.440
So I think that can be helpful as well.
00:22:03.599 --> 00:22:14.960
So if we look at people with what he calls a low anthropology, this a low view of humanity in a sense can actually be helpful to uplifting our view of other people.
00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:18.720
So we have this proper understanding of original sin, right?
00:22:19.200 --> 00:22:24.480
That Adam was created in God's image, but the image of God was marred within humanity.
00:22:24.559 --> 00:22:29.200
And then their son Seth was born in his father's image, which meant sinful.
00:22:29.359 --> 00:22:34.160
And David writes in the Psalm, surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.
00:22:34.319 --> 00:22:37.440
We have this sin passed on from generation to generation.
00:22:37.680 --> 00:22:42.559
Original sin is that lack of true righteousness and this innate desire to sin.
00:22:42.720 --> 00:23:04.160
So if you look at everyone and say, even Christians, like the material of original sin remains with them, to have that kind of baseline understanding that there are going to be sinful things that people do, and not to be all that surprised when sinful people do sinful things.
00:23:04.480 --> 00:23:10.400
And then I think that can help us have kind of that proper approach to someone.
00:23:10.559 --> 00:23:14.319
So then it helps us have a gracious approach to them.
00:23:14.559 --> 00:23:23.039
So when they when the things happen to understand, okay, a sinful person does sinful things, and that's gonna that's gonna happen.
00:23:23.279 --> 00:23:27.839
Now, again, not understanding, like, oh well, well, sin's not that big of a deal.
00:23:28.000 --> 00:23:35.119
Sin is still a big deal, but it helps us approach this with a true understanding tied to that as well.
00:23:35.279 --> 00:23:46.000
I would say to also recognize that the total depravity of the world, to say that all of creation is is affected by the ramifications of sin.
00:23:46.160 --> 00:24:00.079
So you have a sinful person living in a world that is corrupted by sin, and say, there's a pretty good chance that there is a reason that that person that clerk is acting rude to you.
00:24:00.240 --> 00:24:00.480
Yeah.
00:24:00.720 --> 00:24:06.640
Is it just this is a sinful person who needs to hear God's law and receive Christ's grace?
00:24:06.880 --> 00:24:14.400
Or is it this a per is this a person who experienced the curse of sin and death is just reeling from that pain?
00:24:14.880 --> 00:24:19.440
So that those things can also help us approach people with a charitable manner.
00:24:19.839 --> 00:24:27.200
And then I think to a degree even stronger, we need to extend this especially to our fellow believers.
00:24:27.440 --> 00:24:36.400
And it makes me think of the Apostle Paul talking about lost roots among believers, and like if you can't figure out this amongst you, you're already lost.
00:24:36.480 --> 00:24:38.400
You need the unbelieving world to judge you.
00:24:38.640 --> 00:24:50.640
And so just kind of this idea that uh we are to be family in the faith, and we are to be able to talk to each other in love, communicate with one another, and kind of figure this out.
00:24:50.799 --> 00:25:09.039
And so, if someone did do something that you perceived as a slight and you go to church with them, they're your fellow Christian, you should be able to just talk to them about it and get this stuff figured out versus the getting angry and then holding a grudge against them would be certainly inappropriate among the family of believers.
00:25:09.200 --> 00:25:18.240
And so I I think to talk about the person out in the community, this certainly applies, but then even more so among believers, among family of faith.
00:25:18.400 --> 00:25:36.559
And and I think just even something as as silly as like the way we're dressed right now, sometimes the way the pastor dresses becomes a big point of of conversation for people, and they'll they'll start to assume things one way or another, whether someone's wearing a collar or they're wearing a polo.
00:25:36.720 --> 00:25:44.640
And there's not always that that grace or that charity extended to that person to consider like like why might they be doing this.
00:25:44.799 --> 00:25:46.319
And and it goes both ways.
00:25:46.640 --> 00:26:08.079
It goes to the the high church side or the low church side to use those terms, where people kind of assume the worst of each other, and and unfortunately, this can even happen among pastors and and teachers where they're not extending that that charity to one another and saying, like, well, what's the what's their reason?
00:26:08.160 --> 00:26:09.839
And and then let's talk through it.
00:26:09.920 --> 00:26:28.000
And so this isn't a uh context trumps all and people get to do whatever they want, type of conversation, but it is a a conversation to say, like, hey, someone might have a legitimate reason for why they're doing what they're doing, and I don't have the right to just assume the worst.
00:26:28.160 --> 00:26:40.000
Yeah, and so it's like, oh, the person's wearing a collar, it must be an ego thing, or the person's wearing uh joggers and a t-shirt, so he must not care.
00:26:40.319 --> 00:26:54.079
Um, like you could you could see how this can be such a negative thing so quickly, and so to express that kind of charity that we're talking about, especially to our fellow believers.
00:26:54.240 --> 00:26:54.640
Yeah.
00:26:54.880 --> 00:27:02.720
And I think there's also room for saying that the charity could be that looks like an improper practice to me.
00:27:02.960 --> 00:27:07.680
I but he I I know he's a faithful Christian.
00:27:08.319 --> 00:27:10.079
He must not have thought this through.
00:27:10.319 --> 00:27:11.359
Or like that can be terrible.
00:27:11.519 --> 00:27:12.559
Or at least talk to the charity.
00:27:12.799 --> 00:27:14.880
Yeah, that can be the charitable thing to say.
00:27:14.960 --> 00:27:22.079
Like, you know, I think if we if I talk to him, he would understand and perhaps even alter that practice.
00:27:22.160 --> 00:27:22.319
Yeah.
00:27:22.559 --> 00:27:30.319
So just to assume like this isn't something done out of willful disobedience or anything like that.
00:27:30.400 --> 00:27:40.720
But it's as like, you know, if I talk through this with him, he might actually change his perspective on it or or give his reason why to bring it into the local church context.
00:27:40.799 --> 00:27:46.480
We had a nice conversation about this during our Romans Bible study on Sunday morning.
00:27:46.720 --> 00:27:54.480
So we were in chapter 12 of Romans, which is just a string of exhortations of do this, do this, do this.
00:27:54.960 --> 00:28:05.920
And well, one of the things we talked about was the what's sometimes called the 80-20 rule about 80% of the work is done by 20% of the people.
00:28:06.160 --> 00:28:16.559
And one of the members shared a caution, and then I kind of riffed on it, about being careful about complaining about other people not doing enough.
00:28:16.960 --> 00:28:19.680
Because there's a very good chance you don't know what they're doing.
00:28:19.759 --> 00:28:20.319
Yeah.
00:28:20.559 --> 00:28:23.680
I don't let your left hand know what your right hand is doing.
00:28:23.920 --> 00:28:31.759
There's a very good chance that they are doing things that are serving God in wonderful ways, and you're just not aware of it.
00:28:31.920 --> 00:28:39.440
Uh, so there would be an encouragement, I think, for other Christians is don't assume other Christians are lacking fruit of faith.
00:28:39.599 --> 00:28:39.920
Yeah.
00:28:40.079 --> 00:28:47.039
Uh, but instead approach them looking and like assume the Holy Spirit is working in and through you.
00:28:47.359 --> 00:28:49.119
You are doing these things.
00:28:49.279 --> 00:28:56.079
And I think that can help us in our caution to not complain about the other people at church who don't do any.
00:28:56.400 --> 00:29:06.240
And then with the example that you gave about perhaps it shows itself in like hoping to explain the the potential problem to the individual.
00:29:06.400 --> 00:29:08.240
I think the same thing in that situation.
00:29:08.480 --> 00:29:24.400
If you legitimately think that the your fellow member of the church is sinfully uninvolved, maybe it's their their regular regular missing of worship and other issues you might see.
00:29:24.640 --> 00:29:42.880
Again, the duty then wouldn't be to talk behind their back or just to be angry about it in your mind, would but if you truly loved them and you thought this was actually a sin problem, it would be to talk to them and and and probably approach it, certainly approach it from that sense of like, hey, is everything okay?
00:29:43.039 --> 00:29:54.720
And so even as like a pastor, when someone hasn't been to church for a long time, and I'm trying to reach out to them to to give them the charity and and first ask, like, hey, how are you doing?
00:29:55.359 --> 00:30:05.200
Because there are there have been more than a few times where someone's like, Yeah, I was in the hospital recently and I've been recovering.
00:30:05.759 --> 00:30:06.640
Well, great.
00:30:06.799 --> 00:30:07.920
Thanks for letting me know.
00:30:08.400 --> 00:30:09.359
Would you like a visit?
00:30:09.759 --> 00:30:14.240
And so if I come out guns blazing, you haven't been to church four weeks in a row, where have you been?
00:30:14.720 --> 00:30:16.880
That is just going to cause hurt.
00:30:17.039 --> 00:30:25.440
Whereas you come with that that posture of curiosity and you're able to figure out, oh, look, there was a legitimate reason that they weren't here.
00:30:25.759 --> 00:30:39.440
And so if that's your struggle with a fellow believer and people struggle with that Pareto principle, 80% of the work is done by 20% of the people, well, if you actually think it's a sin problem, don't automatically assume those, but talk to them about it.
00:30:39.839 --> 00:30:43.680
And I think that's where it would be good to transition a little bit.
00:30:43.839 --> 00:30:47.680
So if it's a if it's a Christian, you can assume the Holy Spirit's working in and through them.
00:30:47.759 --> 00:30:55.119
If this is a sin problem, I have a proper instruction to confront my brother or sister who is caught in sin.
00:30:55.279 --> 00:30:58.960
Jesus gives very clear instruction on that in Matthew chapter 18.
00:30:59.119 --> 00:31:00.960
But what about the unbeliever?
00:31:01.200 --> 00:31:13.039
I think this is where it might be a little bit more challenging to say that's this person is not a Christian, or maybe based off of the things they've said, I've now deduced that I can't deem them a Christian anymore.
00:31:13.359 --> 00:31:23.039
Is it my duty to take their words and actions in the kindest possible way when actually that person can't even act do anything good and pleasing in God's sight?
00:31:23.279 --> 00:31:23.680
Yeah.
00:31:24.000 --> 00:31:38.400
I I think in one sense there is an a needed understanding of of what we'd call civic righteousness, that unbelievers are still capable of doing acts of civic righteousness, things that are helpful to their neighbor.
00:31:38.559 --> 00:31:46.240
And and so I I do think just because they're an unbeliever doesn't mean that everything is going to be directly harmful to their neighbor.
00:31:46.559 --> 00:31:51.279
So I think that's one thing that's worth worth considering in this conversation.
00:31:51.519 --> 00:32:01.279
But I I think eventually you do need to be willing to say that in some situations there are other principles that are at play.
00:32:01.920 --> 00:32:18.000
Whether it's the protection of life or the protection of property, so Fifth Commandment, Seventh Commandment type issues with the implicit implicit idea that you need to protect yourself and and and so you need to be as shrewd as Vipers.
00:32:18.240 --> 00:32:21.440
So there is that that both that tension.
00:32:21.599 --> 00:32:23.680
And so here's here's an example.
00:32:24.400 --> 00:32:32.720
We have security cameras at our church because sometimes crime occurs on our church campus.
00:32:32.880 --> 00:32:33.839
It's happened.
00:32:34.079 --> 00:32:38.640
We we have had people who have broken in or whatever else it might be.
00:32:38.880 --> 00:32:51.440
And and so is that not taking people's words and actions in the kindest possible way by having security cameras and a security system and locking your doors, or is that protecting the gifts that God has given you?
00:32:51.759 --> 00:33:00.640
I would say it's protecting the gifts that God has given you because what has been become apparent in our world today is that sinful people do sinful things.
00:33:00.799 --> 00:33:06.720
And so you balance the taking people's words and actions in the kindest possible way with other principles in Scripture.
00:33:07.039 --> 00:33:07.279
Yeah.
00:33:07.359 --> 00:33:15.440
Yeah, and I think this is can even be applied to the the Christians in the church as well to say Christians are capable of sin.
00:33:15.599 --> 00:33:19.519
And that's why I'm gonna have a policy for counting money.
00:33:19.680 --> 00:33:33.440
That's why I'm gonna have a child protective policy, like recognize that Christians are capable of doing sinful things and uh unbelievers are capable of lying and pretending to be Christians to get themselves into the organization.
00:33:34.079 --> 00:33:47.200
So it is a it is a difficult balance to strike where we say, on this personal level, I want to take someone's words and actions in the kindest possible way, but maybe more on the corporate level.
00:33:47.440 --> 00:33:53.599
And that's where we're gonna have uh have these policies in place that don't assume that, right?
00:33:53.759 --> 00:33:58.559
Like, does your kitchen need to have rules that say after you use a dish, wash it?
00:33:58.720 --> 00:34:04.640
You might say, oh, I can just assume that a Christian's going to wash that dish or the person renting our facility is gonna wash the dish.
00:34:05.039 --> 00:34:12.400
But that's where maybe I'd say like personal level, take someone's words and actions in the kindest possible way.
00:34:12.639 --> 00:34:19.760
Corporate organizational, maybe some of those policies need not assume that in the same way.
00:34:20.079 --> 00:34:22.960
Yeah, and you think first use of the law type thoughts as well.
00:34:23.119 --> 00:34:32.159
God has kind of structured our world that laws are to be used, and even the threat of punishment for the providing of good order and peace.
00:34:32.320 --> 00:34:41.440
And so that is a blessing from our God when when structure is used to give us a peaceful living situation.
00:34:41.920 --> 00:34:49.039
And so this doesn't mean that we are naive or that we just blindly trust everyone no matter what.
00:34:49.199 --> 00:35:00.880
Like you said, we we have multiple counters, we we keep the money in a bank, we do these protective things to consider multiple principles at play.
00:35:01.119 --> 00:35:11.360
But I think we are particularly highlighting an issue that our world faces because people are so prone to not taking people's words in the kindest possible way.
00:35:11.599 --> 00:35:17.039
And and so I know uh we've got to wrap up a little early today because we've got our pastor's conference soon here.
00:35:17.199 --> 00:35:34.880
But I just wanted to share one quick thought about how we're maybe even more susceptible than ever because of the social media internet world we live in, that everything has been reduced to clickbait is maybe the word that you'd use for it.
00:35:35.199 --> 00:35:38.239
People want provocative thoughts.
00:35:38.400 --> 00:35:43.760
That's that's what drives engagement, and this has really shaped the way that we see the world.
00:35:43.920 --> 00:35:50.239
And so someone might take a just a short clip from something someone said, and then that's the story.
00:35:50.320 --> 00:36:08.639
And no one goes beyond the title, no one goes beyond the short clip to see what is actually said or what the whole story is, and that's even the temptation for like face or for social media or not social media, like YouTube podcasts and stuff, is that people want clickbait.
00:36:08.800 --> 00:36:30.800
And so I Brian Wolfmiller was talking about this in a recent podcast on on the line, and he was talking about that that temptation that that Lutherans might have to just produce content that's clickable that that drives up engagement, but sometimes what's clickable and drives up engagement isn't really what's most helpful.
00:36:31.119 --> 00:36:34.480
And and so I think that could even be a part of this conversation.
00:36:34.719 --> 00:36:48.960
We're shaped by this desire for engagement, and a desire for engagement's not always honest because it is lucrative when you present something that that is shocking.
00:36:49.119 --> 00:36:51.519
It's like you think the rage bait idea.
00:36:52.400 --> 00:36:55.920
Yeah, I think that that's a good balance to put on it.
00:36:56.960 --> 00:37:20.639
To say, like, because of that desire in our society, if I hear a very inflammatory clip of someone speaking or excerpt taken and put in a headline to say, all right, now I want to reserve my judgment until I look into this a little bit further, because we we have grown into a very sensationalized age.
00:37:20.960 --> 00:37:29.440
That also makes me think about the amount of false news stories that are put under under the guise of satire on social media.
00:37:36.480 --> 00:37:40.320
Is that just a lie meant to farm engagement?
00:37:40.639 --> 00:37:56.079
And there's a difference between the onion or the Babylon B, which is a very obvious intentional satire effort, versus these accounts that you wouldn't know that they were actually satire unless you clicked onto the profile and got into their page.
00:37:56.480 --> 00:38:04.880
And it's like those accounts actually seem like they're more trying to spread in misinformation, disinformation and sensationalize things.
00:38:05.039 --> 00:38:05.199
Yeah.
00:38:05.440 --> 00:38:30.000
And that's why I'd I'd probably give a stronger encouragement with the principle of taking someone's words and actions in the kindest possible way to apply that on a personal individual basis, is even with persons that you don't know know on like a personal level, such as politicians and media figures.
00:38:30.239 --> 00:38:42.719
But when then when it comes to maybe more of the the corporate or the social media page things, mm, I would even urge further caution and not just assume they're telling the truth, right?
00:38:43.119 --> 00:38:43.840
But to be discerning.
00:38:44.159 --> 00:38:44.800
To be discerning.
00:38:44.880 --> 00:38:49.360
Then that's where an area that discernment would be well used.
00:38:49.760 --> 00:38:49.920
Yeah.
00:38:50.079 --> 00:38:52.880
And proper discernment could be its own episode.
00:38:53.119 --> 00:38:56.239
But we probably do need to get going here with our pastors conference.
00:38:56.639 --> 00:39:02.000
So we encourage you uh to engage with conversation with other people.
00:39:02.239 --> 00:39:15.440
Uh, as you listen to them, strive to take their words and actions in the best possible way, putting the best construction on it as you look to engage in conversation in a way that glorifies our God.
00:39:15.920 --> 00:39:17.039
God bless.
