Episode 016 - When Gravel Meets Ultra. With Co-Host Kitty Dennis, Angus Young & Adam Jordan.

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Welcome to episode sixteen.
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Dot com, the audio home of ultra distant cycling coverage
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in partnership with dot Watcher. I'm your host Samuel Thompson,
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and on today's roundtable, we welcome Angus Young and Adam
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Jordan to talk about what happens when the gravel and
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ultra worlds meet. First up, though, we'll stick to talking
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about what's been going on in the ultra scene, and
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to do this, I'm joined by dot watchers Managing editor,
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Kitty Dennis.
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Welcome, Kitty, Hello, thanks for having me.
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It's a pleasure to have you here. So we had.
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How did you describe May in terms of the races
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going on?
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I think I call it Mega May Mega May.
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There's been a lot going on, and of course we've
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got jam packed June coming up. So how's it been
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from the dot Watcher side of all the events going on.
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It's been a lot.
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Lot.
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We've seen more and more events sort of getting engaged
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in the platform, which is really exciting, and seeing lots
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more going on in terms of races popping up. But
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I think the thing that we're really keen on is
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maybe just having a few more people from the community
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stepping forward to commentate.
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It is so fun, it's so.
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Rewarding, and you don't have to be an expert, you
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don't have to do it in a certain way. It's
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just your views on the race. People really love an
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original take and insider knowledge. So if you are interested
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on commentating on literally any race, you can just go
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to dot watcher, dot cc slash, become Dash commentator, and
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there's a form that lets you pick a race and
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or an event and commentate on that. So yes or
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jam packed June, let's get some cool commentators. That was horrible. Sorry.
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I think it's really worth emphasizing that there's no strict
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formata around this. And one of the things I really
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appreciate from the commentary is when you're hearing the stories
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from all sides of the field, because it's often easy.
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You can look on the track, you can see who's first,
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you can see how people are doing, but to find
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out the stories behind thoughts, I find this thing which
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the commentators can.
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Really add value to massively, and I think that when
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we end up commentating internally, obviously we have a lot
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of experience and knowledge on ultra distance races, but we
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don't tend to know those little things about the competitors
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or the organization that people who've done the race before
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or know someone in the race already have. So it's
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really nice having local or race vets doing the commentary.
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Okay, Well, as you said, we've aligned the community to
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be able to provide commentary, so if anyone is interested,
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then please do not hesitate to start with our racery cap.
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We have an event which you stepped in to commentate on, Kitty.
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It's the Hellenic Mountain Race, which starts on the twenty
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third of May. The fourth edition of this race, which
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is the second in the Mountain Race series, with a
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slightly different route this year, running directly from north to south.
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What were your major takeaways from this, Kitty.
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I really enjoyed stop watching and commentating this race, and
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I think for a couple of reasons. Obviously the women's race,
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which will come to in a bit, but there's something's
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happened at the race, and like, I feel so sorry
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for Rick Stephen who was absolutely having a runaway lead
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snapped his seats day on his carbon mountain bike, and
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obviously there's nothing you can do about that unless you
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really want to risk a serious injury. So he unfortunately
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scratched from the race, which for me also brings up
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ideas around are we using bikes that are designed as
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super light cross country one race mountain bikes or multi
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day endurance events, strapping loads of bags on them and
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going a town on them. But also it also raises
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my favorite point, which is ultra differance racing is like
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no other event. You have to keep going whether you're
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in fifth or in fifty because you never know what
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could happen. And I remember talking about this before, but
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the fact that Max, Max and Mark probably thought, oh,
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we're never gonna win, and then it was essentially this
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tight race between Max and Mark after Rick scratch just
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shows you've got to persevere even though you might not
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want to keep going. And that even shows in the
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women's race Cynthia Carson, who I personally am really hoping
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can manage to sweep the mountain races because she's an
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absolute trooper in old distance cycling, and also no one
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else is going for it, so I'm not sort of
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picking a favorite here, but with Justina overtaking her and
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then Cynthia basically gaining it back incrementally again, Justina scratched
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really sadly, but Cynthia was able to gain that time
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back and then continue to win the race. So I
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think it's more a race or not standout power this
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person was going to win. It was showing that l
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distance Razi is not all about athleticism, and I really
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enjoyed that.
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It's really good and just to just to recap those
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final results, saying first ever, all we had Max Reese
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even just in three days and thirteen hours, there's only
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nineteen minutes between him and Mark Bouschell, who came in
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second place, and there were some comments from Max afterwards
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saying that he didn't know he could ride that hard
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on the final day. And interestingly they apparently Mark and
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Max had become good friends after doing the Atlas Mountain
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Race and coming in I think they came in the
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same time there. They actually drove to this race together,
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so an interesting battle between friends. And third place there
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was another Max, Max Friedel, who was around four and
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a half hours behind those two, and as you mentioned already,
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Kitty Cynthia Carson was the first female finisher in four
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days and fifteen hours. She came in seventeenth overall, and
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second female finisher was Garla Gianni in thirty fifth overall,
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and third female finisher was Femke van Kessel. There was
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quite a high finishing rate as well. Despite the conditions
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that we saw out there owe one hundred and ninety
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two starters, we had around one hundred and twenty two finishers.
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So therefore, we had Nelson on the podcast in the
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last episode saying that he usually would like to see
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around the fifty percent finishers rate, so potentially took it
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a bit easy on them this time, I think so.
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But also I think potentially we hopefully are seeing people
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not race. There was a lot of people doing the
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event towards the Snail. They were sort of riding their
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own race, and I think the more we see people
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riding their own race, we're going to see higher finishing rates.
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And I hope that that doesn't then turn into races
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just being made harder and harder. But I think that
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it was still incredibly hard. You know, you saw videos
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of people trumping through snow, thunderstorms, all of that. Maybe
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the hard conditions forced people to take more rest and
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ride slower.
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And I think people were that Greece at this time
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of the year. Actually, the places that Nelson has taken
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them on this route. You have to expect everything. So
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potentially when we are having events that are repeated over
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multiple years, there isn't that element of the unknown. So
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people can rely on what has gone on in past conditions,
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in past additions to be able to best equip themselves
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to take on these events.
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Yeah, definitely, and I think more there are, the more
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people of the nest their own setups, et cetera. Even
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use maybe the bikes of and have a look at
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which are the best bikes and things like that little
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plug there.
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Okay.
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Next event, also starting on the twenty third of May,
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was the Race through Poland. This was the eighth edition,
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but looking at where the riders actually went, it was
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mostly a race starting in Poland, going a lot in
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Slovakia and then returning to Poland, so taking a quite
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quite loose definition of the countries there. The top three
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overall we had Tim Dewitter coming in first in three
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days and twenty three hours, followed by Larry Rauno who
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came in just over three hours later, and third place
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was Jedres Gazierowski in four days and five hours.
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I hope I've pronounce that right, Jedres.
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We had a really interesting battle between the first five
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women finishers were all really close together, and the first
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female finisher coming in ninth place overall, was Anna Colquist
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in five days and four hours, followed by Sylvia Kuropatua
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in five days and seven hours and thirteenth overall. Third
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third female finisher was Nora Battleman in five days and
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eleven hours, who was the first finisher last year, and
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very kindly, Nora has given us a recap of her
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experience which we'll listen to now.
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Hello, everyone, this is Nora Butterman. I'm sending you a
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quick recap of the ways for Poland this year. For context,
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I did it last year and straightaway fell in love
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with the kind of family feeling that the whole race
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has about it. The organizer, Peico, really managed to create
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something really special and that, paired with a ban of
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all national roads across the entire race, makes it really
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really special race to me. So when I saw this
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year's edition focusing kind of around the Tatras Mountain range,
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I knew I had to go back there. Anyone who's
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not familiar with Eastern Europe, I can really really recommend
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it because Peko's picks for pakurs are really great. It
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surprised me last year the landscape and this year maybe
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even more so so. That was absolutely amazing. What was
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also absolutely amazing this year was a really strong women's field.
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It was a really interesting cut in there because in
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the beginning Johanna and Marta were going really really strong
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with a no or very little sleep strategy, and then
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towards i don't know, day three, maybe they were overtaken
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by Anna and Sylvia, who had a very regular street
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sleep strategy. And to see that kind of fight myself
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in the middle of those was really cool and exciting.
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And from what I've heard, the women's race was really
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really great to not watch. I myself don't really pay
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too much attention to these things, so I don't really
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know what happened in terms of placing and positioning. I
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kind of focus on the landscape more so I can
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report on some really really stunning gravel options that were
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in there. I haven't got any special cool stories, really.
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I've got one which I'm not entirely sure whether I
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want to tell, but might be important to tell. Everyone
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who's not watch the race might have seen that towards
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the end of the race and the finish of procur
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there was a diversion, and basically the reason for that
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was that as I was going through the finish up procure,
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I passed through a village and as I was leaving
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that village, I was approaching a little sort of hill
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and behind that hill I was ambushed by two people
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who tried to push me off the bike off the road.
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One of them blocked the opposite roadside, the other one
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tried to grab the bike and pushed me into the
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ditch and I just about kind of got away. But yeah,
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after that, the race organizer decided that would not be
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safe to send the rest of the field through there,
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so that's why there was a diversion set up. It's
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a really great way of managing it. I was very
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glad to see that they reacted that quickly and it
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was all sorted and even the guy who was right
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behind me got the diversion, so I'm glad no one
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else had to go through that. It's kind of a
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difficult one to talk about because I don't want, especially
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women obviously, to be scared doing these races. At the
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same time, it is something that can occasionally happen, and
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it helped me massively to be aware of the fact
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that it is not always a good idea to stop
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when someone asks you to stop. So I don't know,
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maybe this little story helps someone in the future who
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gets in a similar situation to just accelerate and not stop.
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Yeah.
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So on that rather sad note, I still want to
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say was a really really good experience of all. Really
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enjoyed the race. I am definitely going to go back
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next year. This whole banning national roads is exactly my
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kind of writing, so yeah, I can't wait.
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Thank you Norah for showing of us. I think firstly,
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it's admirable how you dealt with this situation, and although
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it's really unfortunate that there are people out there who
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will do these actions, it's really encouraging to hear that
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it didn't seem.
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To affect your overall experience.
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And I think the words we have for other people
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is really important as well. We would also like to
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give acknowledgement to Piko Pulaski, the organizer, for taking the
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actions in terms of adjusting the final parkour for other
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riders so quickly and being so responsible with that.
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So yeah, although it was a sad.
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Note to finish off on I think there are many
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many positives to be taken from the situation, so thanks
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again for sharing this.
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Of us Nora.
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Out of fifty five starters, there was thirty four finishers
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in the full route, which is just over fifty eight percent.
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And something which Rob picked out in the preview, which
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I'm sure he'll be happy to see, was Tim Dewitter
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finally breaking his run of similarly finishing third place in
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every event that he takes part in. Finished twice third
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at TCR, third at the Transpireentees Race, and third previously
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at Race through Poland. So yeah, good to see that
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he is on the top step of the podium here.
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And I I'm sure you're Greekitty. Some of the commentary
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by Bartech is pretty exceptional. How he brings the race
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to life, how the detail that he goes into to
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be able to give credit and highlight what's going on
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throughout the field. I think it's I think it's yeah,
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it really adds so much to the experience of following
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this race in particular.
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Yeah, I think Bartek's commentary We've had like exceptional commentators
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throughout our doorcher. But Bartek also commentated be a race,
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and I just think that, like you can truly feel
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that he is watching this race day and night and
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he is excited about it, and it honestly is such
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an awesome example of bringing this life, this race to
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life for a race that could be slightly more confusing
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to follow than others, which makes it such an exciting event.
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So yeah, thank you so much to Bartek, such a
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great illustration of a really enjoyable race.
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I'd be really interested to potentially speak to him sometime
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to find out how he gets all of this information.
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I suppose he'll be traing Instagram. I think he must
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have a closer line with the race to organizer Pico
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Polowski as well, because some of the some of the
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information that he finds out, I think it's, Yeah, it's
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so much beyond what you'd expect just by following a
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map and seeing what there is just on social media.
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Definitely.
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Now, the next event which happened over the previous weekend
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or starting in twenty ninth for May, is one which
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is very relevant to the roundtable which we will come onto.
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It's Unbound Excel, which is the three hundred and fifty
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mile or five hundred and sixty three kilometer version of
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the one of the most well known gravel races that
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there is at a moment, and it's again one which
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blurs the lines between ultra distance and gravel with participants
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who we are more familiar with seeing in multi day
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self supported events, and then some coming from even professional
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backgrounds who are doing doing plenty of races in the
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gravel scene. As for the results, in first place, we
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had Robin Gemperley, who backs up some of his previous
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results in the ultra distant scene, previous winner of the
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Transcontinental Race of Tour Divide, who came in twenty one
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hours and twenty minutes, second overall max A Goot in
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twenty two twelve minutes. He of course was second at
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the Tracker five sixty just a few weeks ago as well.
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In third place, it depends which sources you believe. As
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we stand at the moment, there was tracking for this
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event via follow my Challenge. Slightly bizarrely, there was apparently
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two hundred and thirty seven people starting this events only
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fifty nine had finished according to the Unbound website, but
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on the tracker there was only showing around around that
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number of people. On the tracker lot of a lot
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of races we know were there who have disappeared from
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the tracker and on the Unbound website, there's also a
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number of people who did not finish who are not
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showing on there. So on the Unbound website it shows
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that Josh Amberger is in third place in twenty four
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hours and four minutes, but then looking on Instagram we
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can see that Alex McCormack is claiming third place in
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a similar time. So what we will do is have
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a look into this see we can find out if
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the results are going to be updated, and when we
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return next week with on the Dot our race focused episodes,
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we will confirm the results there, hopefully. On the women's side,
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the outcome seem quite a bit clearer. In tenth place
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overall and first female was Sphenya Betts in twenty seven
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hours and eleven minutes. Eleventh overall, following up on her
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00:21:00.200 --> 00:21:04.200
recent victory at track of five sixty is Maddie Nutt
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in twenty seven hours and forty six minutes and third
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female twenty first overall was larissa' connors in twenty nine
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hours and two minutes. Quite a few interesting talking points
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about the event itself Kitty or what was the major
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ones for you?
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I think I'll start with one that you will definitely
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00:21:24.640 --> 00:21:26.599
want to talk about as well so we can have
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a conversation. Is about Robin's thirty two inch wheeld Scott,
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which he it's a prototype that's never going to be released,
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and I think it created a sort of storm of
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conversation on Instagram and also other areas of the internet.
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Is it fair that Robin got to race on a
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bike that's never going to be released? Did he bring,
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so to speak, a done to a knife fight like?
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It would be really interesting to know whether we're gonna
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see this happening more where I remember ol Rick wants
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raised on prototype tires, but I think a bull bike
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might be the line that causes change. What are your
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thoughts on it?
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Yeah, I think this is the big distinction when there
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is no governing body and there are no rules around
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this sort of thing. I was looking on the Unbound
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website for their rules around what bike you can ride.
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There's some quite.
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It's a quite amusing language of how they describe it,
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saying that your bike needs to have handlebars and a saddle,
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and it must have a chain or belt. So it's
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very basically there's no restrictions as there are in the
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professional world around the bike and the equipment needing to
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be on available on the mass market. So it's a
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conversation we had in the previous roundtable about when we're
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talking about sponsorship, like where is there an advantage to
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sponsored riders that they're able to use prototype equipment that
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isn't available to everyone. I think what we don't know
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here is how much it gave if it gave him
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advantage at all, and how much of an advantage it
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gave him, because the jury seems to be out on
356
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thirty two inch wheels, like whether they are an advantage
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or not, So maybe he would have won in a
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00:23:17.440 --> 00:23:20.200
similar margin with or without a question that we can't
359
00:23:20.240 --> 00:23:24.759
answer for the moment. But yeah, it gets people, gets
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people talking about it, and I know that I know
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00:23:28.079 --> 00:23:30.359
some people have very strong opinions on thirty two inch
362
00:23:30.400 --> 00:23:37.079
wheels anyway, So yeah, we will see how that's how
363
00:23:37.119 --> 00:23:42.039
that develops, and like, yeah, whether it's the next big
364
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thing or or whether it's storming a tea cup.
365
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Basically yes, and.
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I think that either way, I will enjoy watching this unfold.
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00:23:53.279 --> 00:23:55.480
I am not going to buy some thirty two inch wheels,
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though I haven't aughwared.
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I would really like to hear Amanda's opinion on this
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as well. Maybe we'll get hurt to weigh in on
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thirty two inch wheels gravel bits.
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Yeah, will be really intrigued to hear her opinion. What
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did you think about the mud?
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Well, what I found intriguing was that Robin still managed
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to finish in a time which reflected a moving speed
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of twenty six and a half kilometers an hour, despite
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apparently having to walk quite a lot. Robin made some
378
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comments in Cycling Weekly that he probably had to walk
379
00:24:32.759 --> 00:24:36.759
around a half marathon distance, so potentially he's exaggerating a
380
00:24:36.759 --> 00:24:38.960
little bit there, But to be able to still keep
381
00:24:39.000 --> 00:24:41.279
it over our average speed of twenty six and a
382
00:24:41.319 --> 00:24:44.839
half k an hour on gravel while having to have
383
00:24:45.039 --> 00:24:49.000
walked a lot shows like, Yeah, what sort of performance
384
00:24:49.000 --> 00:24:52.680
we're seeing here over twenty one is ish hours. I
385
00:24:52.759 --> 00:24:54.680
seem to affect everyone in the field. We had some
386
00:24:54.839 --> 00:24:58.119
people dropping out because of it. Well, there was a
387
00:24:58.119 --> 00:25:02.960
couple of crashes with a couple of the former professional riders,
388
00:25:02.960 --> 00:25:06.519
Pete Stettoner and Ted King, both unfortunately ending in hospitals.
389
00:25:07.079 --> 00:25:10.559
I hope they hope they're both okay. And Victor BERSONI
390
00:25:11.039 --> 00:25:15.200
who is who was one of the pre race favorites
391
00:25:15.240 --> 00:25:19.160
after having one track of five sixty. He is in
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00:25:19.240 --> 00:25:21.880
America ahead of taking on the Tour Divide in a
393
00:25:21.880 --> 00:25:24.440
couple of weeks along with Alex McCormack.
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00:25:24.519 --> 00:25:24.759
There.
395
00:25:25.680 --> 00:25:29.559
His comments on Instagram are around around sort of managing
396
00:25:29.599 --> 00:25:32.119
himself ahead of the tour device not wanting to compromise
397
00:25:32.160 --> 00:25:36.400
his chances in a couple of weeks. So it did
398
00:25:36.440 --> 00:25:40.519
seem to decimate the field, having less than less than
399
00:25:40.559 --> 00:25:42.960
a quarter of riders finishing, so it seemed to play
400
00:25:43.119 --> 00:25:43.880
a huge roleer.
401
00:25:44.599 --> 00:25:48.880
Yes, I mean looking at the pictures, I think the
402
00:25:48.920 --> 00:25:52.799
standout picture was that picture of Lackland Morton being absolutely
403
00:25:53.480 --> 00:25:57.720
lobbed of his bike. I think what's interesting in these
404
00:25:57.839 --> 00:26:02.440
races is that I've noticed with the American gravel races
405
00:26:02.960 --> 00:26:06.319
is as soon as the rain comes, it becomes like
406
00:26:07.240 --> 00:26:11.119
what their favorite expression is the peanut butter mud? Yeah,
407
00:26:11.160 --> 00:26:13.000
and it just sounds horrible.
408
00:26:14.200 --> 00:26:14.799
Yeah.
409
00:26:15.000 --> 00:26:17.960
Something else I picked out that I thought was interesting
410
00:26:18.200 --> 00:26:23.000
was some more comments by Robin Gurley, this time in
411
00:26:23.240 --> 00:26:26.720
Cycling News, saying that he was happy to have won
412
00:26:26.759 --> 00:26:29.079
this so he can get back to more of the
413
00:26:29.160 --> 00:26:32.599
ultra endurance races, which seems to pervert. So the quote
414
00:26:33.319 --> 00:26:36.039
that he gave was the more often you do this
415
00:26:36.039 --> 00:26:38.160
this kind of stuff, the further way you get from
416
00:26:38.200 --> 00:26:41.000
doing it again. So I do have kind of a
417
00:26:41.039 --> 00:26:45.240
focus on these short ultures for this year. And he
418
00:26:45.279 --> 00:26:47.920
said he's super happy that he worked out because he
419
00:26:47.960 --> 00:26:49.720
doesn't want to do this for another five years. He
420
00:26:49.759 --> 00:26:51.880
wants to go back to the really long ones where
421
00:26:51.920 --> 00:26:57.359
he feels super comfortable. So I thought this is interesting, like,
422
00:26:57.920 --> 00:27:01.279
why is he doing this event if he doesn't really
423
00:27:01.440 --> 00:27:02.160
like them?
424
00:27:02.799 --> 00:27:05.279
Yeah, and I think that kind of is the flip side.
425
00:27:05.440 --> 00:27:10.640
He gets to ride a prototope bike. We can't We
426
00:27:10.720 --> 00:27:14.440
can't know, but surely you look at the stats for
427
00:27:14.720 --> 00:27:18.920
races like Unbound and they do get the most eyes.
428
00:27:19.079 --> 00:27:23.200
So are riders feeling pressure or are they deciding to
429
00:27:23.279 --> 00:27:26.799
themselves to raise their profile. You never know, but it
430
00:27:26.839 --> 00:27:30.960
does always throw an interesting spin on things when they're sponsored,
431
00:27:31.119 --> 00:27:34.000
because at the end of the day, if you rely
432
00:27:34.839 --> 00:27:39.200
on your income being from the sort of views you get,
433
00:27:39.240 --> 00:27:42.119
the interactions you get, the prize money you get, people
434
00:27:42.119 --> 00:27:47.000
will be drawn to these bigger gravel events, even if
435
00:27:47.039 --> 00:27:50.279
it's not something that they really love, which is interesting.
436
00:27:52.680 --> 00:27:56.160
So this implies that we'll see we'll see Robin again
437
00:27:56.720 --> 00:28:01.559
on a multi day ride sometimes to be interesting to
438
00:28:01.599 --> 00:28:06.559
see what he what he's got next to conquer. Now,
439
00:28:06.599 --> 00:28:09.799
we did originally have Saphenia Betts join us for the
440
00:28:09.920 --> 00:28:14.119
roundtable which is coming up, but unfortunately, as she was
441
00:28:14.160 --> 00:28:18.359
still traveling back from her great victory at Unbound Excel
442
00:28:19.240 --> 00:28:22.640
the quality of an audio wasn't good enough to use.
443
00:28:23.319 --> 00:28:26.119
So instead I've asked Veny if she can give us
444
00:28:26.160 --> 00:28:29.440
a recap of her race. So she goes into some
445
00:28:29.480 --> 00:28:31.480
great detail and we'll play it now.
446
00:28:33.880 --> 00:28:40.599
Hello, Yeah, sure, a little recap of armund Excels. Isn't
447
00:28:40.599 --> 00:28:44.319
that easy because it's just such a long stretch of right,
448
00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:47.839
but I try to keep it a little bit charred.
449
00:28:48.440 --> 00:28:53.160
M Yeah. Unbound is so special because it's a mix
450
00:28:53.200 --> 00:28:58.480
of like a proper crow race and an ultra. It's
451
00:28:58.599 --> 00:29:02.400
like something in between. So it's super long, super long race.
452
00:29:02.519 --> 00:29:05.680
But also it's not a proper ultrap because you're allowed
453
00:29:05.680 --> 00:29:09.079
to write in groups and also drafting is allowed. It's
454
00:29:09.079 --> 00:29:13.599
self supported. But still there's a yeah, a few gas
455
00:29:13.599 --> 00:29:16.680
stations on the route which are already signed beforehand, so
456
00:29:16.759 --> 00:29:20.160
you know where you can stop. And also you're often
457
00:29:20.200 --> 00:29:22.880
in groups, you're not really by yourself, and this year
458
00:29:23.319 --> 00:29:26.440
I actually wasn't that much by myself. I really was
459
00:29:26.480 --> 00:29:29.559
looking forward to be alone and to write my own
460
00:29:29.599 --> 00:29:33.640
pace in the in the night. But I often was
461
00:29:33.680 --> 00:29:36.480
in a little group. Sometimes I was by myself, which
462
00:29:36.519 --> 00:29:39.519
I really enjoyed, but often it was in in groups.
463
00:29:39.880 --> 00:29:43.279
And the race started very fast, like a proper race,
464
00:29:43.640 --> 00:29:46.400
like actually like I don't know, one hundred miles race.
465
00:29:47.240 --> 00:29:51.200
But then I realized I need to go a bit slow,
466
00:29:51.880 --> 00:29:55.599
slower because I wasn't was already out of energy very
467
00:29:56.079 --> 00:29:58.680
in the beginning, so I took it a bit easier.
468
00:29:59.680 --> 00:30:03.440
It was super hot, which I wasn't prepared for, and
469
00:30:03.480 --> 00:30:06.920
then I slowed down. I got a bit sick because
470
00:30:06.920 --> 00:30:11.000
I couldn't eat and my whole body was just in
471
00:30:11.039 --> 00:30:16.079
the limit. So yeah, I tried to find myself again,
472
00:30:16.920 --> 00:30:20.000
take it a bit easier, and then just get into
473
00:30:20.039 --> 00:30:23.559
my room. So at some point I got caught by
474
00:30:23.599 --> 00:30:26.680
some other women from behind. They took me in her train,
475
00:30:27.200 --> 00:30:31.480
which was really nice. We enjoyed some couple of hours together,
476
00:30:32.079 --> 00:30:35.359
having a gas station, stopped together, and then just continuing,
477
00:30:36.400 --> 00:30:39.880
and by the time we collected more women, so at
478
00:30:39.880 --> 00:30:43.640
some point I also knew I am catching up to
479
00:30:43.680 --> 00:30:51.160
the front. So at some point the group I was
480
00:30:51.240 --> 00:30:56.279
in was getting slower, and not slower, but smaller, and
481
00:30:56.319 --> 00:30:58.319
then at some point in the night we were only
482
00:30:58.400 --> 00:31:02.559
three of us, hitting then gas station, where I continued
483
00:31:02.559 --> 00:31:06.759
by myself and then just enjoyed a few couple of
484
00:31:06.799 --> 00:31:10.880
hours by myself, and then there was the big rain coming.
485
00:31:11.319 --> 00:31:14.000
I was back in the group then with Lereta, like
486
00:31:14.200 --> 00:31:17.640
the girl who came third in the end, and I
487
00:31:18.279 --> 00:31:22.200
actually got super like super happy when the rain came.
488
00:31:22.240 --> 00:31:24.200
It was a little bit of a cool down, and
489
00:31:24.279 --> 00:31:29.759
also I really enjoyed the lightning and the thunder around us.
490
00:31:30.039 --> 00:31:33.680
And then we hit the first mud section, which was
491
00:31:33.759 --> 00:31:36.799
super like in the beginning, it wasn't yeah, okay, that's
492
00:31:36.799 --> 00:31:40.119
a bit of mud, it's fine. We was waiting for this,
493
00:31:41.000 --> 00:31:43.440
so it was okay. But then it turned out that
494
00:31:43.559 --> 00:31:46.799
mud section was like already super long, so we were
495
00:31:46.799 --> 00:31:51.839
walking for quite a while and then back on the bike.
496
00:31:51.960 --> 00:31:55.359
There was another gas station coming up, so I refueled,
497
00:31:55.440 --> 00:31:58.599
I got a bit of order, I coke and then continued,
498
00:32:00.000 --> 00:32:04.640
but then there was more mud coming, like even more
499
00:32:04.839 --> 00:32:07.599
long mud section, so in the end there was like
500
00:32:07.640 --> 00:32:12.680
a five six hours walk just carrying your bike somehow
501
00:32:12.720 --> 00:32:18.160
through the deep mud, and it got so boring, like
502
00:32:18.400 --> 00:32:21.279
I really didn't want to continue, like I was tired,
503
00:32:21.359 --> 00:32:25.920
and it was already light by the time, and there
504
00:32:26.000 --> 00:32:28.920
was no sign of end of the mud. But yeah,
505
00:32:29.079 --> 00:32:31.200
you somehow need to go through. I mean, there's no
506
00:32:31.319 --> 00:32:34.799
other way to go around. You need to face it
507
00:32:34.880 --> 00:32:37.680
and just go through. So I also knew all the
508
00:32:37.720 --> 00:32:41.559
others have to go there as well. But then at
509
00:32:41.559 --> 00:32:44.359
some point it finally ended and you could ride your bike,
510
00:32:44.880 --> 00:32:47.720
and then there was a more mud section coming, but
511
00:32:47.759 --> 00:32:50.640
they fortunately were already a bit drier so you could
512
00:32:50.720 --> 00:32:56.039
actually ride. And then we were facing a lot of headwind,
513
00:32:56.160 --> 00:32:59.160
like it was just so windy you couldn't go in
514
00:32:59.240 --> 00:33:03.920
your aerow bar. And then sometimes you were just so slow,
515
00:33:04.079 --> 00:33:06.240
like it was not rolling at all. You were just
516
00:33:06.279 --> 00:33:11.000
facing the headwind and just trying to fight against the wind.
517
00:33:11.279 --> 00:33:14.839
Coming to finish a bit closer, and mentally it was
518
00:33:14.880 --> 00:33:18.400
super hard because it was already like eleven ish o'clock
519
00:33:19.000 --> 00:33:21.880
and still it was like a two two hundred k
520
00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:26.400
to go, which wasn't planned because like we thought about
521
00:33:26.440 --> 00:33:29.480
finishing around maybe two or three o'clock in the afternoon,
522
00:33:29.839 --> 00:33:32.039
but then it turned out it's going to be a
523
00:33:32.079 --> 00:33:36.680
long ride till the evening. And yeah, then I was
524
00:33:37.480 --> 00:33:40.839
first woman. I passed Maddie at some point in the
525
00:33:40.920 --> 00:33:44.839
mud and I continued and then there was a gap
526
00:33:44.880 --> 00:33:47.960
between us. But I never knew where she actually is, Like,
527
00:33:48.240 --> 00:33:50.160
is she just a bit behind me? Is there a
528
00:33:50.200 --> 00:33:53.720
bigger gap? I didn't know, so I just tried to
529
00:33:53.960 --> 00:33:56.240
go as fast as I can. So I was writing
530
00:33:56.359 --> 00:33:59.759
literally on my limit. I was racing for like twenty
531
00:33:59.759 --> 00:34:04.079
seven hours, and then just in the very end, I realized, okay,
532
00:34:04.119 --> 00:34:07.000
the big the gap is big enough. I got some
533
00:34:07.039 --> 00:34:11.239
messages from home via my phone that media is a
534
00:34:11.280 --> 00:34:13.480
bit behind me and she's not going to close that
535
00:34:13.559 --> 00:34:18.199
gap anymore. So I was, okay, now I can win
536
00:34:18.360 --> 00:34:22.039
that if nothing's going to happen anymore. So I took
537
00:34:22.199 --> 00:34:25.880
really care and it got a bit technical, and like
538
00:34:26.360 --> 00:34:30.119
these sharp stones, I was a bit afraid of getting
539
00:34:30.119 --> 00:34:33.800
a flat or whatever, like another mechanical but I, yeah,
540
00:34:33.840 --> 00:34:37.000
I was lucky and there was nothing happening. So I
541
00:34:37.199 --> 00:34:40.440
just rode my bike, and with every kilometer you come
542
00:34:40.639 --> 00:34:44.880
to the finish it was a bit closer. So mentally
543
00:34:44.960 --> 00:34:47.800
it was a real big fight. Just stay on your
544
00:34:47.840 --> 00:34:53.840
bike and continue. But yeah, I could ride a bit
545
00:34:53.880 --> 00:34:57.519
with another guy, so I could talk with someone which
546
00:34:57.639 --> 00:35:01.920
actually had quite a lot, and it wasn't dead boring anymore.
547
00:35:02.880 --> 00:35:06.000
So yeah, at some point it got warm again, and
548
00:35:06.039 --> 00:35:09.440
then the kilometers got less and less and less, and
549
00:35:09.440 --> 00:35:14.079
then the last couple of kilometers I really enjoyed and
550
00:35:14.239 --> 00:35:16.480
I knew I got to win. And then yeah, I
551
00:35:16.599 --> 00:35:20.079
finished first, which was a really big or which is
552
00:35:20.119 --> 00:35:23.519
a really big achievement winning Arbot Exel now the second time,
553
00:35:24.400 --> 00:35:28.880
coming from a not very well preparation the last couple
554
00:35:28.920 --> 00:35:32.480
of months because I had to finish my exams and yeah,
555
00:35:32.679 --> 00:35:36.079
just two weeks ago I had my last one, which
556
00:35:36.239 --> 00:35:39.800
was really like a stressful time and I wasn't really
557
00:35:39.880 --> 00:35:44.280
keen about putting a lot of time in my bike
558
00:35:44.400 --> 00:35:50.159
maintainance and yeah, like training preparation and stuff. So I'm
559
00:35:50.159 --> 00:35:56.039
actually super happy to execute my plan to win that
560
00:35:56.239 --> 00:35:59.639
a second time. And yeah, then there were many people
561
00:35:59.679 --> 00:36:02.800
waiting for me in the finish area and they hugging me,
562
00:36:02.960 --> 00:36:06.079
and they were laughing, and it was just it was
563
00:36:06.199 --> 00:36:10.440
so nice to see them and to really feel their
564
00:36:10.559 --> 00:36:14.360
feeling for me, and they're really happy. So yeah, that
565
00:36:14.519 --> 00:36:16.840
was a big one. And even if it was a
566
00:36:16.920 --> 00:36:21.400
really stressful time in before, I'm super happy that I
567
00:36:21.559 --> 00:36:25.280
bring home that win now, and yeah, really much looking
568
00:36:25.320 --> 00:36:30.800
forward what's coming next, maybe having the next real Ultra
569
00:36:32.639 --> 00:36:38.760
in autumn time, so there's some next racist planned and
570
00:36:38.800 --> 00:36:43.360
then yeah, we'll see what the future brings. Thank you,
571
00:36:43.519 --> 00:36:45.719
and yeah, hope two years soon.
572
00:36:48.199 --> 00:36:52.000
Another event that we had recently was Utrecht Ultra, and
573
00:36:52.360 --> 00:36:56.360
in our preview on the DoD last last month, I
574
00:36:56.360 --> 00:36:58.800
think we were quite interested to see how the pair
575
00:36:58.840 --> 00:37:01.719
of baths of last Camp and Leonard Knapp would get
576
00:37:01.760 --> 00:37:04.719
on as they were talking about trying to win the
577
00:37:04.800 --> 00:37:09.519
event outright, which in the commentary it was quite rightly
578
00:37:09.559 --> 00:37:11.480
picked up. This wouldn't have been the first time that
579
00:37:11.679 --> 00:37:14.719
a paired one overall, because it happened in Across Andy's
580
00:37:14.800 --> 00:37:19.280
a few years ago that there was only I think
581
00:37:19.320 --> 00:37:22.280
there was only less than twenty competitors at that time,
582
00:37:22.400 --> 00:37:25.599
so this potentially would have been the first time in
583
00:37:25.639 --> 00:37:29.400
the bigger field of nearly two hundred people in the end,
584
00:37:29.679 --> 00:37:34.079
they came in second place, which they described as a
585
00:37:34.159 --> 00:37:37.679
consolation win. They were first pair second overall, they were
586
00:37:37.840 --> 00:37:40.360
leading for a long time. They went out super fast
587
00:37:40.880 --> 00:37:43.320
and on the route like this, where it's one thousand
588
00:37:43.320 --> 00:37:46.639
and k six thousand meters climbing, being able to work
589
00:37:46.679 --> 00:37:50.360
together in draft and doesn't make a huge advantage. There
590
00:37:50.519 --> 00:37:52.639
was more elevation in the back calf of the course,
591
00:37:52.880 --> 00:37:55.519
and when you're a pair, there's always two reasons to stop,
592
00:37:55.559 --> 00:37:59.199
two sets of things that can go wrong. So in
593
00:37:59.239 --> 00:38:02.199
the end they did finish around two hours behind the
594
00:38:02.239 --> 00:38:05.519
overall winner, who is Alexander val in forty one hours
595
00:38:05.599 --> 00:38:09.119
and twenty nine minutes, and the first female who finished
596
00:38:09.159 --> 00:38:12.960
in tenth overall was Merlin Saluter in fifty one hours
597
00:38:13.000 --> 00:38:15.079
and eighteen minutes.
598
00:38:15.719 --> 00:38:19.000
I did enjoy actually, on the following my challenge tracking
599
00:38:19.039 --> 00:38:21.960
for this the tags where you could see if they'd
600
00:38:22.000 --> 00:38:25.760
competed in Utrek Ulture before, and I think it was
601
00:38:25.800 --> 00:38:29.760
really interesting to see the top ten apart from one,
602
00:38:30.199 --> 00:38:34.960
had all competed in a Utrek Ultra event before, so
603
00:38:35.320 --> 00:38:37.960
just does share a bit of experience at an event
604
00:38:38.039 --> 00:38:40.679
can definitely give you a bit of an advantage in
605
00:38:40.760 --> 00:38:42.440
the next one.
606
00:38:43.000 --> 00:38:46.519
And I'm sure it's a good sign for the organization
607
00:38:46.639 --> 00:38:48.679
as well that if people have done this event are
608
00:38:48.800 --> 00:38:51.000
and are willing to go back, then they must be
609
00:38:51.039 --> 00:38:57.440
doing a good job there exactly. Now, let's look at
610
00:38:57.440 --> 00:39:02.000
some dots to watch. There are a lot of events
611
00:39:02.039 --> 00:39:05.079
going on in Jam Packed Tune, and we'll be back
612
00:39:05.400 --> 00:39:08.199
in a week or so with the second episode of
613
00:39:08.199 --> 00:39:11.599
On the Dot to preview a lot of them. But
614
00:39:11.639 --> 00:39:14.559
in the meantime, there's a couple coming up that are
615
00:39:15.000 --> 00:39:18.119
starting this weekend the sixth of June.
616
00:39:19.079 --> 00:39:20.199
The first one which.
617
00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:23.039
I want to talk about is what's now being called
618
00:39:23.119 --> 00:39:26.800
the Trans and Bike NonStop. Previously just the Trans and
619
00:39:27.000 --> 00:39:31.119
Bike Race starts in sveenth of June from Astoria in Oregon.
620
00:39:32.480 --> 00:39:35.119
What has changed in the past couple of years is
621
00:39:35.199 --> 00:39:40.920
this change in terminology in both changing route as well.
622
00:39:42.239 --> 00:39:45.840
There's an option, well, there are various options that the
623
00:39:45.960 --> 00:39:50.000
riders can take. They all start in Oregon on the
624
00:39:50.000 --> 00:39:52.719
west coast of the US head towards the east coast.
625
00:39:53.760 --> 00:39:57.840
There's basically three lots of checkpoints that they have to
626
00:39:57.880 --> 00:39:58.280
go through.
627
00:39:58.320 --> 00:39:59.599
The first two fixed.
628
00:39:59.320 --> 00:40:01.199
And then the third one basically an option of a
629
00:40:01.360 --> 00:40:05.280
number of ways to cross the Mississippi River. And then
630
00:40:05.679 --> 00:40:09.760
the part which I find interesting in terms of how
631
00:40:09.800 --> 00:40:12.480
we're classifying results is that there are two finish points.
632
00:40:12.679 --> 00:40:17.239
There's Yorktown, Virginia, which is the Classic trans Am Bike
633
00:40:17.360 --> 00:40:21.519
Race finish point, or also Washington, DC, And so they're
634
00:40:21.519 --> 00:40:25.280
basically describing it as hybrid version of the paved Transcend
635
00:40:25.320 --> 00:40:29.400
Bike Race and this mixed terrain bike non stop US.
636
00:40:30.360 --> 00:40:32.519
There's a mass start of everyone's starting at the same time,
637
00:40:32.840 --> 00:40:36.679
but riders can choose which of these routes they're taking.
638
00:40:37.480 --> 00:40:41.679
There are thirty three starters. Twenty of them are doing
639
00:40:41.960 --> 00:40:45.559
the short version of the bike NonStop, six are doing
640
00:40:45.559 --> 00:40:48.360
the bike NonStop, and there's only seven that are doing
641
00:40:48.440 --> 00:40:55.559
the classic Transam bike race route. It's one which in
642
00:40:55.679 --> 00:40:58.840
previous years there was a lot of attention around when
643
00:40:58.880 --> 00:41:01.360
it's a Transcend bike race, and this was seen as
644
00:41:01.599 --> 00:41:06.119
one of the high highest profile events we've had in
645
00:41:06.159 --> 00:41:11.119
the past. Michael winning this, Leo Wilcox won It's outright
646
00:41:11.159 --> 00:41:15.719
as well, but it seems to have both fallen out
647
00:41:15.719 --> 00:41:19.599
of favor. Perhaps it's changed a bit. How how have
648
00:41:19.639 --> 00:41:21.880
you sort of viewed how this evolved.
649
00:41:22.079 --> 00:41:24.760
I mean, I guess the last time I was really
650
00:41:26.239 --> 00:41:29.079
enthralled with. It was the year I think it was
651
00:41:29.079 --> 00:41:33.800
twenty twenty three, and it was when Pico Paul Wowski,
652
00:41:33.840 --> 00:41:38.159
the organizer, had raced through Poland was racing and him
653
00:41:38.280 --> 00:41:40.880
and Omar de Belice were having a sort of battle
654
00:41:40.960 --> 00:41:44.199
for the finish, with Omar winning and then Pico rolling
655
00:41:44.239 --> 00:41:47.440
in after. And I think that that was the last
656
00:41:47.519 --> 00:41:50.320
year there was two separate routes, but that was the
657
00:41:50.400 --> 00:41:54.519
last year where somebody can just jump in and dot watch.
658
00:41:54.719 --> 00:41:58.199
And I think that we're at the point now, and
659
00:41:58.360 --> 00:42:00.840
obviously no disrespect to the organizer, but I think that
660
00:42:00.880 --> 00:42:04.360
we're at the point where unless you are intimately engaged
661
00:42:04.519 --> 00:42:08.000
with trans Am, you're not going to know what's going on.
662
00:42:08.480 --> 00:42:12.719
And I think that potentially if you go out and
663
00:42:12.760 --> 00:42:15.360
you win, but then you don't win the whole thing,
664
00:42:15.679 --> 00:42:19.239
it just turns races off a little bit. So I
665
00:42:19.280 --> 00:42:21.119
really think they just went back to the one room
666
00:42:21.840 --> 00:42:25.880
we could see more people engage in the race, and
667
00:42:25.920 --> 00:42:27.519
then another side of it, I don't know how you
668
00:42:27.559 --> 00:42:30.639
feel about this, is that I think maybe people aren't
669
00:42:30.639 --> 00:42:33.239
doing these huge races anymore because it means that's it
670
00:42:33.280 --> 00:42:35.880
for your year, And what are your thoughts on that
671
00:42:35.920 --> 00:42:36.360
side of it.
672
00:42:37.440 --> 00:42:40.840
Yeah, it's a huge time commitment in this, because I
673
00:42:40.880 --> 00:42:47.400
think even the outright record is it's around two weeks
674
00:42:47.519 --> 00:42:51.960
give or take, and that's for people who are they're
675
00:42:51.960 --> 00:42:55.559
not stopping at all really along the way. A lot
676
00:42:55.599 --> 00:42:58.079
of people are going to be finishing around three week mark,
677
00:42:58.159 --> 00:43:04.199
which factoring travel there and back and the time around
678
00:43:04.199 --> 00:43:06.960
the start and finished, that's a month out of your life,
679
00:43:07.000 --> 00:43:10.239
which a lot of people just can't do with regular
680
00:43:10.400 --> 00:43:14.079
full time jobs. So that is one big barrier to it.
681
00:43:15.320 --> 00:43:19.320
And then there is a response from the organizer, Nathan
682
00:43:19.400 --> 00:43:25.679
Jones on the website around whether whether you can still
683
00:43:25.800 --> 00:43:30.079
do the Transcend bike Race original route. He does respond
684
00:43:30.199 --> 00:43:34.719
saying that riders should consider wider format was changed. There
685
00:43:34.760 --> 00:43:37.840
have been concerns around how heavily trafficked the route is
686
00:43:37.880 --> 00:43:40.239
in places, and there have been a couple of instants
687
00:43:40.239 --> 00:43:46.039
over the years, unfortunately with riders being injured or even
688
00:43:46.079 --> 00:43:51.000
worse along the way as well. So yeah, I can
689
00:43:51.079 --> 00:43:54.280
understand that there could be safety issues with the route
690
00:43:54.320 --> 00:43:54.760
as well.
691
00:43:56.599 --> 00:43:58.079
So yeah, I think there's.
692
00:43:57.960 --> 00:44:02.719
Various reasons why there's there is this number of people
693
00:44:03.280 --> 00:44:06.800
taking part, But yeah, I do wonder having especially having
694
00:44:06.800 --> 00:44:09.920
those two finishes, whether it dilutes it as an event,
695
00:44:11.079 --> 00:44:15.280
could it possibly done as separating the two bit more distinctly,
696
00:44:15.960 --> 00:44:20.559
And I mean events routes can evolve over time as well,
697
00:44:20.920 --> 00:44:24.880
and are there ways of making the classic route a
698
00:44:24.920 --> 00:44:26.760
bit a bit safer as well?
699
00:44:27.280 --> 00:44:31.239
Yeah, and I think that potentially for next year, that
700
00:44:31.320 --> 00:44:34.639
could be a way to go because I totally understand
701
00:44:34.679 --> 00:44:38.760
the safety aspect of it. But as somebody also who
702
00:44:39.719 --> 00:44:42.880
has never done a long distance ride in the United States,
703
00:44:42.920 --> 00:44:47.239
so I think his comments about understanding which roads are
704
00:44:47.280 --> 00:44:50.079
dangerous or not, I actually feel if I was just
705
00:44:50.199 --> 00:44:53.559
told on the route, this is the safer route, we've
706
00:44:53.679 --> 00:44:56.119
changed it, I would be more willing to go and
707
00:44:56.159 --> 00:45:01.639
do the event. But I completely respect nacan's choices to
708
00:45:01.800 --> 00:45:06.440
make the route safer because we can't. You know, you
709
00:45:06.480 --> 00:45:09.679
can't beat an eighteen wheel LORI when you're just you
710
00:45:09.760 --> 00:45:10.320
on your bike.
711
00:45:10.719 --> 00:45:14.840
Well, let's see how this event evolves into the future.
712
00:45:15.559 --> 00:45:17.599
But it's the concept.
713
00:45:18.199 --> 00:45:22.159
It's pretty awe inspiring. I think riding from coast to
714
00:45:22.159 --> 00:45:25.239
coast in the US is it's a bucket list thing
715
00:45:25.320 --> 00:45:30.400
for many people, so this offers it there's options to choose. Yeah,
716
00:45:30.840 --> 00:45:34.920
if you've got a month spare, then it's there for you.
717
00:45:36.679 --> 00:45:38.800
Another event that we've got starting on the sent of
718
00:45:38.880 --> 00:45:44.239
June is Seven Serpents, starting at Lubiana in Slovenia. It
719
00:45:44.639 --> 00:45:47.880
finishes in Trieste in Italy around one thousand k later,
720
00:45:48.000 --> 00:45:52.360
with eighteen thousand meters of climbing. It takes in all
721
00:45:52.400 --> 00:45:58.519
sorts of off road surfaces from some smooth staff, some
722
00:45:58.719 --> 00:46:02.119
hiker bike in there as well. It's a fixed route.
723
00:46:02.360 --> 00:46:05.679
One of the unique elements of this is the island topping.
724
00:46:06.000 --> 00:46:09.960
I've counted five ferries that the riders have to take
725
00:46:10.320 --> 00:46:13.039
crossing from the mainland over to three islands and then
726
00:46:13.079 --> 00:46:13.559
back to.
727
00:46:13.760 --> 00:46:14.840
Mainland Europe again.
728
00:46:15.840 --> 00:46:19.880
There are one hundred and fifty three solo riders and
729
00:46:20.559 --> 00:46:24.920
forty eight lots of pairs. Some interesting riders to watch.
730
00:46:24.960 --> 00:46:28.440
First one is another one of our guests in the
731
00:46:28.480 --> 00:46:31.440
round table coming up, Adam Jordan, who was having a
732
00:46:31.440 --> 00:46:34.480
great race last year at seven Serpents. He was leading
733
00:46:34.559 --> 00:46:38.079
after the first first halb. Unfortunately had to scratch last
734
00:46:38.159 --> 00:46:40.199
year as well. He was also in the first pair
735
00:46:40.559 --> 00:46:44.400
in bad Lands. We've also got the returning winner from
736
00:46:44.480 --> 00:46:49.039
last year, Omar Martinello, who has also come second in
737
00:46:49.039 --> 00:46:51.480
this event in twenty twenty three and was first in
738
00:46:51.599 --> 00:46:54.920
the Quick Bite, the shorter version of Seven Serpents in
739
00:46:54.960 --> 00:46:57.239
twenty twenty vour so and knows the route and what
740
00:46:57.280 --> 00:47:01.800
to expect there and also finish the last year. Andre
741
00:47:02.119 --> 00:47:06.760
Subbek is returning and some interesting rise on the women's
742
00:47:06.760 --> 00:47:07.599
side to look at for as well.
743
00:47:07.679 --> 00:47:14.159
Kitty Mmm, so we've got India Landi, who is somebody
744
00:47:14.199 --> 00:47:18.519
who I think her longevity in the ultra cycling scene
745
00:47:18.559 --> 00:47:22.519
is something people really like to see. So she's coming
746
00:47:22.519 --> 00:47:26.119
to that, and so is Kara Dixon, a rider who
747
00:47:27.679 --> 00:47:31.840
has had some incredible results in the ultra distance arena
748
00:47:31.960 --> 00:47:34.719
and sometimes flies slightly under the radar.
749
00:47:35.920 --> 00:47:37.719
But I think their riding is a pair.
750
00:47:39.039 --> 00:47:41.840
And I think that this could be the start of
751
00:47:42.039 --> 00:47:45.000
I was thinking about this is that Seven Serpents. It's
752
00:47:45.039 --> 00:47:47.920
an incredible area of the world. I think we're going
753
00:47:48.000 --> 00:47:51.840
to see more and more arch distance races. Doing this,
754
00:47:52.239 --> 00:47:56.239
like what Alex McCormack did with Jesse Yates and lots
755
00:47:56.239 --> 00:47:59.079
of other riders have done, is maybe just taking it
756
00:47:59.119 --> 00:48:03.480
a little bit more as a an adventure than a race,
757
00:48:03.760 --> 00:48:07.159
and hopefully we're going to see some very wholesome content
758
00:48:07.239 --> 00:48:11.880
of these two having a lovely time. That might encourage
759
00:48:11.920 --> 00:48:14.880
people to go to these beautiful events and take them
760
00:48:14.920 --> 00:48:18.239
as an event rather than an all out race to
761
00:48:18.280 --> 00:48:21.119
the finish, which we love. But there's space for everyone.
762
00:48:21.599 --> 00:48:26.719
And then also Zuzanna bowa Kova, who was fourth overall
763
00:48:26.880 --> 00:48:30.599
last year, so expect her to be right up there again.
764
00:48:32.239 --> 00:48:36.119
I love a good Ferry event because when you see
765
00:48:36.159 --> 00:48:39.639
these docs coming together and people timing their sleep and
766
00:48:39.679 --> 00:48:43.840
everything just adds such an exciting layer of unknown to
767
00:48:43.960 --> 00:48:47.480
the racing. So hopefully we will see a really exciting
768
00:48:47.480 --> 00:48:48.519
addition this year.
769
00:48:49.280 --> 00:48:50.800
And one more.
770
00:48:51.840 --> 00:48:55.760
It's a big event, it's more of an individual challenge
771
00:48:55.800 --> 00:49:00.719
than a race. But we have Leah Wilcox attempting to
772
00:49:00.800 --> 00:49:04.599
ride around the world faster, starting on the seventh of June.
773
00:49:04.840 --> 00:49:07.679
I think she's starting from Chicago in the US and
774
00:49:07.719 --> 00:49:10.920
heading east from there. We talked about this in detail
775
00:49:11.199 --> 00:49:15.280
on episode twelve when Millie was co hosting, so we'd
776
00:49:15.320 --> 00:49:18.159
like to go back and hear our full opinions on there.
777
00:49:18.679 --> 00:49:22.280
She has the target of Mark Beaumont's overall record of
778
00:49:22.400 --> 00:49:25.800
seventy eight days and fourteen hours to go for and
779
00:49:26.639 --> 00:49:31.400
she's recently gone for a buzz cut to go get
780
00:49:31.480 --> 00:49:34.199
full aerodynamic benefits here.
781
00:49:34.400 --> 00:49:36.480
So do you think she's going to do it, Kitty?
782
00:49:38.400 --> 00:49:40.119
I do, And I think the buzz cut as well
783
00:49:40.239 --> 00:49:43.039
says something because that is also I don't want to
784
00:49:43.079 --> 00:49:45.320
have to think about dealing with my hair and things
785
00:49:45.320 --> 00:49:50.800
like that. It just shows she has thought of absolutely anything, everything,
786
00:49:51.440 --> 00:49:54.519
and I think anyone can do this. It's going to
787
00:49:54.519 --> 00:49:58.159
be Leel Wilcox, and I think Mark Beaumont's record is
788
00:49:58.199 --> 00:50:02.639
obviously a feat of human endurance that is incredible, but
789
00:50:04.119 --> 00:50:06.559
it is something that's been there long enough that we
790
00:50:06.599 --> 00:50:09.519
can see someone top all that. And she's done it
791
00:50:09.559 --> 00:50:12.360
before she knows the route, she knows what she's doing.
792
00:50:13.559 --> 00:50:15.679
I think that it's going to be tight, but it's
793
00:50:15.719 --> 00:50:17.760
going to be I think you're not going to be
794
00:50:17.760 --> 00:50:19.599
able to look away. We're all going to just have
795
00:50:19.639 --> 00:50:22.000
to sit behind our computers for eighty days.
796
00:50:22.639 --> 00:50:25.480
You're right, it is a huge physical effort, but I
797
00:50:25.519 --> 00:50:27.840
know Leo's gone to a huge amount of detail in
798
00:50:27.960 --> 00:50:31.199
terms of optimizing all the other aspects are going to
799
00:50:31.199 --> 00:50:33.119
which are going to be really important over such a
800
00:50:33.159 --> 00:50:36.320
long duration, like she's been in the wind tunnel to
801
00:50:36.320 --> 00:50:40.519
test out her aerodynamics. I think how even over the
802
00:50:40.599 --> 00:50:45.519
past seven eight years. Now, how much technology and all
803
00:50:45.559 --> 00:50:47.880
these aspects that she can put in her favor of developed,
804
00:50:48.360 --> 00:50:52.280
I mean that's going to give her disadvantage. And she's
805
00:50:52.559 --> 00:50:55.800
talked around like it's only a few hours extra riding
806
00:50:55.840 --> 00:50:58.519
each day, and as she did in her first time round,
807
00:50:58.920 --> 00:51:02.800
So if she can nail the logistics side of things,
808
00:51:03.119 --> 00:51:07.800
then in some ways, I mean, the pedling is not easy,
809
00:51:07.920 --> 00:51:11.039
and I think there is the additional challenge of you
810
00:51:11.079 --> 00:51:16.079
are You've got everything done for you, So being supported
811
00:51:16.599 --> 00:51:21.679
takes away some of what is occupying your mind around resupply,
812
00:51:21.920 --> 00:51:25.960
around feeding, fueling and so on. So maybe that's an advantage.
813
00:51:26.320 --> 00:51:29.920
Maybe it makes because things are so simple, all you've
814
00:51:29.960 --> 00:51:31.239
got to do is think about peddling.
815
00:51:31.639 --> 00:51:33.400
Maybe that plays in your mind a bit.
816
00:51:34.760 --> 00:51:38.360
Yeah, But I think that having heard Layl speak and
817
00:51:38.599 --> 00:51:40.800
how she talks about riding, I think that if anyone
818
00:51:41.280 --> 00:51:48.400
has the mental mental capacity to think about riding, keep
819
00:51:48.440 --> 00:51:52.840
it positive and keep pressing forward, it will be her.
820
00:51:53.400 --> 00:51:57.920
And I also think that she seems like somebody who
821
00:51:57.960 --> 00:52:00.519
would not have gone for it if it was out
822
00:52:00.559 --> 00:52:01.119
of her reach.
823
00:52:03.239 --> 00:52:06.199
And I'm sure with the support she said, and there
824
00:52:06.239 --> 00:52:09.039
are a lot of people who believe in her. So yeah,
825
00:52:09.079 --> 00:52:10.880
we'll be following on with interest and we'll get some
826
00:52:10.960 --> 00:52:13.599
updates along the way. So well, best of luck for
827
00:52:13.639 --> 00:52:14.320
the start layel.
828
00:52:18.440 --> 00:52:21.559
The finding gravel and ultra goes far beyond just simply
829
00:52:21.599 --> 00:52:25.559
describing a surface and distance or duration. There is something
830
00:52:25.599 --> 00:52:28.760
implicit in these words that evokes a vision, philosophy, and
831
00:52:28.840 --> 00:52:33.920
famously a spirit. The ultra and gravel scenes offer subs.
832
00:52:34.119 --> 00:52:38.239
Whilst also being founded on similar principles, Both are witnessing
833
00:52:38.280 --> 00:52:42.679
exponential growth, particularly in recent years, in large part as
834
00:52:42.719 --> 00:52:46.679
they offer something different to traditional cycling racing. One of
835
00:52:46.719 --> 00:52:49.320
our guests, Adam Jordan, put it well in a recent
836
00:52:49.440 --> 00:52:52.639
article for the dot Watcher sub stack by stating that
837
00:52:52.679 --> 00:52:55.960
they are built on trust, self reliance, community, and the
838
00:52:56.000 --> 00:52:58.360
idea that a rider can take on a difficult route
839
00:52:58.400 --> 00:53:00.559
with very little between them and the outcome.
840
00:53:01.159 --> 00:53:04.599
However, when these two worlds come together in an ultra
841
00:53:04.719 --> 00:53:09.079
gravel crossover space, tensions relating to the underlying differences are
842
00:53:09.119 --> 00:53:12.039
often brought to light. We are seeing this more and
843
00:53:12.079 --> 00:53:14.519
more in events that are sure enough to appear as
844
00:53:14.559 --> 00:53:18.280
accessible to riders coming from a gravel background, whilst equally
845
00:53:18.400 --> 00:53:21.199
requiring at least an element of self sufficiency in race
846
00:53:21.280 --> 00:53:25.960
management that those from multi day ultra racing excel at
847
00:53:26.559 --> 00:53:29.639
on one side track of five sixty in unbound Excel
848
00:53:29.880 --> 00:53:33.519
have grown as longer versions of renowned gravel races, whilst
849
00:53:33.599 --> 00:53:36.039
on the other races such as bad Lands have their
850
00:53:36.039 --> 00:53:40.039
origins of self supported ultra endeavors. Although they may be
851
00:53:40.119 --> 00:53:44.039
considered as similar challenges, differences in rules and their interpretation
852
00:53:44.360 --> 00:53:49.039
can vary significantly between events. Take drafting, for example, this
853
00:53:49.119 --> 00:53:53.039
has permitted unbound Excel, apparently only accepted for the first
854
00:53:53.119 --> 00:53:56.639
twenty kilometers at track of five sixty and strictly forbidden
855
00:53:56.679 --> 00:54:00.920
at Badlands. With so much media sponsor general interest in
856
00:54:00.960 --> 00:54:03.199
these races, we're eager to explore some of the key
857
00:54:03.239 --> 00:54:06.199
talking points that arise in this crossover space and where
858
00:54:06.239 --> 00:54:08.239
the line is between gravel and ultra.
859
00:54:09.360 --> 00:54:10.639
To do so, we have.
860
00:54:10.760 --> 00:54:14.280
Guests whose experienced stretches across each end of this ultra
861
00:54:14.280 --> 00:54:18.639
gravel continuum. So firstly, he's already been mentioned, so it's
862
00:54:18.679 --> 00:54:22.119
no secret that we're joined by Adam Jordan. Adam is
863
00:54:22.159 --> 00:54:25.960
a Slovenian ex pro road racer who finished tenth in
864
00:54:26.039 --> 00:54:29.719
the twenty twenty two Slovenian National Championships before shifting his
865
00:54:29.840 --> 00:54:32.960
focus towards becoming a full time gravel racer, where he's
866
00:54:33.000 --> 00:54:37.440
participated in the Gravel World and European Championships in the
867
00:54:37.440 --> 00:54:40.320
past couple years. He's achieved impressive results in the off
868
00:54:40.400 --> 00:54:44.639
road ultra scene, notably as first finisher at Basawan and
869
00:54:44.760 --> 00:54:48.280
as first pair finisher at Badlands, both in twenty twenty five.
870
00:54:48.840 --> 00:54:51.320
He's also recently just picked up second place at the
871
00:54:51.400 --> 00:54:54.239
seven Serpent's Quick Bite ahead of tackling in the full
872
00:54:54.280 --> 00:54:58.639
event coming this weekend. As we record is aforementioned piece
873
00:54:58.679 --> 00:55:01.840
for the dot Watch substac following his experience and trek
874
00:55:01.840 --> 00:55:04.239
of five sixty also shows that he isn't shy about
875
00:55:04.280 --> 00:55:06.480
addressing the issues this space faces.
876
00:55:06.840 --> 00:55:11.199
So thanks for joining us, Adam.
877
00:55:09.519 --> 00:55:10.400
Happy to be here.
878
00:55:11.239 --> 00:55:14.599
So also joining us is Angus Young and Angus is
879
00:55:14.639 --> 00:55:18.039
one of the most accomplished ultra cyclists of recent years,
880
00:55:18.239 --> 00:55:21.119
winning the Homeland twelve five to fifty Dale's Divide in
881
00:55:21.239 --> 00:55:25.360
record times and still holding the fastest known time for
882
00:55:25.639 --> 00:55:29.199
the latter. He's never finished lower than six in any
883
00:55:29.280 --> 00:55:32.719
ultra event he's completed, and this includes a recent fifth
884
00:55:32.800 --> 00:55:35.639
place at Track of five five sixty, where if you've
885
00:55:35.639 --> 00:55:38.840
listened to the latest episode you'll have heard how outspoken
886
00:55:38.880 --> 00:55:43.119
he was about various aspects of the event. Angus also
887
00:55:43.159 --> 00:55:46.639
holds two rather huge pastes known times in many sense
888
00:55:46.920 --> 00:55:49.840
of the word, The nine five hundred and seventy five
889
00:55:49.920 --> 00:55:52.840
kilometer Eastern Divide in North America that he's set in
890
00:55:52.880 --> 00:55:56.840
twenty twenty five and the seven six hundred kilometer European
891
00:55:56.840 --> 00:56:00.159
Divide in twenty twenty two. Is no one trick pony.
892
00:56:00.440 --> 00:56:03.679
Angus also has a marathon PB of two twenty eight.
893
00:56:04.280 --> 00:56:06.440
To round things off. He now hosts his own event,
894
00:56:06.559 --> 00:56:09.039
the f Red Ultra, which has just held its first
895
00:56:09.159 --> 00:56:12.239
edition in his backyard in southwest England.
896
00:56:13.760 --> 00:56:15.639
Hello, I'm yeah, happy to be here.
897
00:56:16.480 --> 00:56:21.239
If we start, maybe with Angus, based on your sort
898
00:56:21.239 --> 00:56:25.800
of long, sort of history with ultra distance, what in
899
00:56:25.840 --> 00:56:28.480
your opinion constitutes an.
900
00:56:28.400 --> 00:56:34.599
Ultra Well, this is sort of the golden question, isn't it? Really?
901
00:56:34.679 --> 00:56:37.559
You know why we're here, And I've been thinking about
902
00:56:37.559 --> 00:56:39.679
it since you asked me to come on the podcast,
903
00:56:39.719 --> 00:56:42.400
and I've been talking about it with other people and
904
00:56:42.440 --> 00:56:45.760
lots of people have different opinions. My first thought was
905
00:56:47.519 --> 00:56:52.920
it's an event where like where you need to sleep? Well,
906
00:56:53.000 --> 00:56:57.559
like need to sleep is really the where I first,
907
00:56:57.880 --> 00:57:01.199
like you know, thought straight away, but then think you
908
00:57:01.320 --> 00:57:04.000
can for example, because you know mentioned Dale's Divide and
909
00:57:04.000 --> 00:57:06.039
I feel that Dale's Divide is very much an ultra.
910
00:57:06.239 --> 00:57:08.639
I supposed to a gravel race, and you know the
911
00:57:08.639 --> 00:57:12.239
top half of the field don't sleep in Dale's Divide.
912
00:57:13.280 --> 00:57:15.840
So then you start thinking about, well, is it an
913
00:57:15.840 --> 00:57:20.800
event where you need to have some kind of resupply
914
00:57:21.559 --> 00:57:27.280
along the way, because even in something like Dale's, you know,
915
00:57:27.320 --> 00:57:29.119
you probably could go all the way carrying all your
916
00:57:29.199 --> 00:57:31.239
nutrition from the start, but it's.
917
00:57:31.039 --> 00:57:32.360
Not going to be the optimal way.
918
00:57:34.840 --> 00:57:38.079
Whereas you know, I think that you know, short of
919
00:57:38.079 --> 00:57:40.599
gravel races, you can't pretty much carry everything you want
920
00:57:40.639 --> 00:57:44.119
from the start. It's a difficult question. There's a couple
921
00:57:44.159 --> 00:57:46.440
of thoughts. The obvious way to do it is something
922
00:57:46.480 --> 00:57:51.000
about duration. Really, you might think anything over you know,
923
00:57:51.239 --> 00:57:53.320
say somehow whichually number of like twenty four hours for
924
00:57:53.360 --> 00:57:57.480
the winner is an ultra. But then again it's dependent
925
00:57:57.519 --> 00:58:01.199
on how they're raced, right, you know, you look at
926
00:58:02.880 --> 00:58:05.880
the unbound excel you've just gone, and that's pretty much
927
00:58:05.960 --> 00:58:08.119
raced as a gravel race. You know, from what I
928
00:58:08.119 --> 00:58:10.320
can tell looking at it, the tactics are pretty similar.
929
00:58:10.480 --> 00:58:12.960
You know. Obviously I've got drafting, which is a huge thing.
930
00:58:15.480 --> 00:58:19.920
With the shorter race of gravel ultra type races, I
931
00:58:19.960 --> 00:58:23.760
feel that you're more racing your competitors as opposed to
932
00:58:24.119 --> 00:58:27.719
trying to put out an individual best effort. Obviously, the
933
00:58:27.800 --> 00:58:30.880
longer races you do end up racing your competitors as well,
934
00:58:31.119 --> 00:58:38.639
but it's maybe state tactical on that front potentially. But yeah,
935
00:58:38.719 --> 00:58:40.480
I as I said, I've been thinking about this for
936
00:58:40.519 --> 00:58:42.400
a couple of weeks now and I haven't come up
937
00:58:42.400 --> 00:58:44.880
with a satisfactory answer. So I'm really keen to hear
938
00:58:44.920 --> 00:58:46.960
what other people have to say about the fact about
939
00:58:46.960 --> 00:58:47.320
the thing.
940
00:58:47.280 --> 00:58:50.920
That's very interesting. I've never actually thought about the nutrition
941
00:58:51.199 --> 00:58:55.960
side of it. I guess what are your thoughts on that, Adam.
942
00:58:56.079 --> 00:59:00.119
Yeah, so the question I also started thinking about it,
943
00:59:00.159 --> 00:59:03.440
which was the main question which was hard for me
944
00:59:03.519 --> 00:59:08.880
to answer. And my idea was it becomes an ultra
945
00:59:09.960 --> 00:59:16.119
perhaps when the like the pure performance side shifts from
946
00:59:16.679 --> 00:59:21.360
also managing yourself. So exactly what Angus said, nutrition, food,
947
00:59:22.239 --> 00:59:26.639
maybe even sleep depends, you know, it's you're doing sleep deprivation.
948
00:59:27.199 --> 00:59:30.920
You're doing a twenty four hour event like a traca.
949
00:59:31.800 --> 00:59:36.039
So I think as soon as you have to like
950
00:59:36.440 --> 00:59:41.159
the pure challenge of raising others shifts to something where
951
00:59:41.159 --> 00:59:45.039
you have to take care of yourself, also mechanicals or
952
00:59:45.079 --> 00:59:48.840
similar things. I would say this is when it becomes
953
00:59:48.920 --> 00:59:54.880
an ultra. But it's hard to define the exact race
954
00:59:55.000 --> 00:59:58.800
where you say, okay, like Unbound is an ultra, but
955
00:59:58.880 --> 00:59:59.880
something else isn't.
956
01:00:00.079 --> 01:00:03.079
So I think that's really interesting because Simon and I
957
01:00:03.079 --> 01:00:05.559
were obviously chatting about this before, and as you mentioned,
958
01:00:05.639 --> 01:00:10.519
Angus the Dales is sort of very similar to Unbound
959
01:00:10.559 --> 01:00:13.440
in its distances, and I think the best that I
960
01:00:13.440 --> 01:00:16.760
could come up with is, it's just the vibe is different.
961
01:00:18.760 --> 01:00:20.159
Yeah, I agree what it is.
962
01:00:20.840 --> 01:00:23.159
Yeah, as and you mentioned at the start of the podcast,
963
01:00:23.239 --> 01:00:25.920
you know, the spirit of gravel with the spirit of ultra,
964
01:00:26.159 --> 01:00:27.920
that sort of thing, And you're right, it just comes
965
01:00:27.960 --> 01:00:30.719
down to the vibe, you know, what people are trying
966
01:00:30.760 --> 01:00:32.639
to get out of it. And I'm sure that if
967
01:00:32.679 --> 01:00:38.039
something like you know, if Dale's did attract you know, ten, fifteen,
968
01:00:38.119 --> 01:00:41.599
twenty of the world's top gravel slash ultra races, the
969
01:00:41.679 --> 01:00:44.079
vibe would change and it would probably start to shift
970
01:00:44.079 --> 01:00:48.719
towards that more you know gravelly type event as he
971
01:00:48.760 --> 01:00:50.639
sings to you know, these events always evolved, don't they.
972
01:00:50.719 --> 01:00:53.920
Lots of events might start out as a you know,
973
01:00:54.239 --> 01:00:59.079
grassroots ultra and then shift into like even you know, unbound,
974
01:00:59.719 --> 01:01:02.559
like the two hundred mile race. You know, it started
975
01:01:02.599 --> 01:01:06.400
out as what probably a very sort of ultra vibe
976
01:01:06.960 --> 01:01:10.920
and now it's miles and miles away from that.
977
01:01:11.679 --> 01:01:15.880
One common thing that the couple you mentioned is about
978
01:01:16.559 --> 01:01:22.159
how ultras are essentially individual time trials of everyone's starting
979
01:01:22.239 --> 01:01:25.159
at the same time and there's less of that interaction
980
01:01:25.280 --> 01:01:28.679
between riders, how that strategy can play out, and obviously
981
01:01:29.039 --> 01:01:31.480
when there is drafting things that I'm bad excel, that
982
01:01:32.000 --> 01:01:35.320
totally shifts that because there is there is a reason
983
01:01:35.440 --> 01:01:38.559
to adapt your strategy to what other people are doing.
984
01:01:39.159 --> 01:01:42.400
And it's something you A guess you mentioned in that
985
01:01:42.519 --> 01:01:45.880
voice that you left us for the last podcast that
986
01:01:45.920 --> 01:01:48.760
you think there could be a space for drafting to
987
01:01:48.760 --> 01:01:52.239
be included in some of these longer gravel events. Do
988
01:01:52.239 --> 01:01:54.599
you think that will help to really give this distinction
989
01:01:54.679 --> 01:01:56.800
between the two worlds.
990
01:01:58.000 --> 01:01:59.840
Yeah, I think so, and I think it would be
991
01:01:59.880 --> 01:02:04.000
very clear cut you know, it would be nice and
992
01:02:04.039 --> 01:02:05.719
easy to say if we could all say, oh, if
993
01:02:05.719 --> 01:02:09.920
there's drafting, it's it's a gravel race slash long mountain
994
01:02:09.960 --> 01:02:13.519
bike race, and if there isn't, it's an ultra. But
995
01:02:14.119 --> 01:02:17.920
the reality of it is, organizing events which are draft
996
01:02:17.960 --> 01:02:21.079
legal is a lot harder than organizing events which aren't,
997
01:02:21.360 --> 01:02:24.079
just like from a safety and risk management point of view.
998
01:02:24.679 --> 01:02:29.519
So yeah, that's I think it's not feasible for all
999
01:02:29.559 --> 01:02:33.599
of these shorter ones to be draft legal. I think
1000
01:02:34.400 --> 01:02:37.559
the one of the reasons why I thought, you know,
1001
01:02:37.760 --> 01:02:39.760
there's definitely more of a space for these longer draft
1002
01:02:39.800 --> 01:02:41.480
legal ones is I just think that if you've got
1003
01:02:41.480 --> 01:02:44.760
that many fast people on the course, it's impossible not
1004
01:02:44.800 --> 01:02:47.519
to draft, like at some like at some point, and
1005
01:02:47.559 --> 01:02:50.440
the deeper and deeper these fields to get, which we're
1006
01:02:50.440 --> 01:02:53.320
clearly seeing, you know, the strength and depth of riders
1007
01:02:53.360 --> 01:02:57.039
like everywhere is growing, and you know, as you said,
1008
01:02:57.079 --> 01:03:01.639
it's the sport's growing exponentially. That distance at which is
1009
01:03:02.000 --> 01:03:05.800
we're coming, you know, impossible not to draft is getting
1010
01:03:05.800 --> 01:03:07.880
longer and longer longer, So you might as well just
1011
01:03:07.920 --> 01:03:09.480
bite the bullet and say, right, you can draft and
1012
01:03:09.559 --> 01:03:12.760
change change change the tactics of the race, like you
1013
01:03:12.800 --> 01:03:14.119
can see it unbound Excel.
1014
01:03:14.280 --> 01:03:15.800
Then you know the race.
1015
01:03:15.599 --> 01:03:17.880
Tactics there from what I can tell by looking at
1016
01:03:17.920 --> 01:03:20.119
social media and stuff, looked like it was raced differently
1017
01:03:21.320 --> 01:03:23.239
to other races.
1018
01:03:23.840 --> 01:03:26.519
That sort of brings us on to the next next
1019
01:03:26.519 --> 01:03:28.440
area that we want to look at, which is your
1020
01:03:28.679 --> 01:03:32.360
personal experiences of taking part in these events that we
1021
01:03:32.400 --> 01:03:36.320
can call crossover where you have people come from more
1022
01:03:36.440 --> 01:03:39.039
but the gravel backgrounds and people more familiar to self
1023
01:03:39.039 --> 01:03:44.320
sufficient ultra side of things. So Adam, you've come from
1024
01:03:45.519 --> 01:03:48.599
more of the gravel side of things. Initially, what's your
1025
01:03:48.599 --> 01:03:52.519
experience being like in the events? For instance, you are
1026
01:03:52.639 --> 01:03:54.559
tracker this year, So for.
1027
01:03:54.679 --> 01:04:00.519
Me, the trucker was I mean the draft draft was
1028
01:04:00.559 --> 01:04:05.679
the main thing that wasn't defined here. And also I mean,
1029
01:04:06.119 --> 01:04:12.239
as Angus said, by defining drafting, you could say what event.
1030
01:04:12.400 --> 01:04:15.519
I mean you can also define what is a race,
1031
01:04:16.320 --> 01:04:20.079
what is an adventure or you know, then split it
1032
01:04:20.159 --> 01:04:24.639
into like a really competitive race and not not such
1033
01:04:24.639 --> 01:04:27.679
a competitive race or a race. Let's call it an
1034
01:04:27.679 --> 01:04:32.440
event where people also come with the ultra spirit. But
1035
01:04:32.840 --> 01:04:36.840
I see that most of the let's say events which
1036
01:04:36.880 --> 01:04:40.000
are gravel and ultras over that are the ones which
1037
01:04:40.039 --> 01:04:43.039
bring the most attention. Also, if you think about it,
1038
01:04:43.039 --> 01:04:48.360
it's traka, it's unbound, it's bad lands, and they're all
1039
01:04:48.360 --> 01:04:51.880
gravel events which bring lots of attention, lots of attention,
1040
01:04:52.000 --> 01:04:55.960
but they are also a mix of gravel riders and
1041
01:04:56.159 --> 01:05:01.320
ultra riders. And by defining some standard in these events,
1042
01:05:02.039 --> 01:05:03.360
it would be easier to.
1043
01:05:05.599 --> 01:05:07.599
They called them ultra or.
1044
01:05:08.639 --> 01:05:15.119
Let's say, gravel events, even though they require self sufficiency.
1045
01:05:15.199 --> 01:05:19.079
And angus obviously you have extensive experience more in the
1046
01:05:19.079 --> 01:05:24.239
self sufficient culture worlds. You're also at a tracker we've
1047
01:05:24.280 --> 01:05:29.039
already talked about. When you think about potentially including drafting there,
1048
01:05:29.639 --> 01:05:32.199
what else were your major takeaways from taking part in
1049
01:05:32.559 --> 01:05:34.920
an event of that nature, you.
1050
01:05:34.880 --> 01:05:38.159
Know, Mike, the gripe I have with it is that
1051
01:05:39.880 --> 01:05:41.920
it felt like it was just, you know, like an
1052
01:05:41.960 --> 01:05:45.480
ultra bolted on or you know, a race bolted on
1053
01:05:45.559 --> 01:05:49.719
to what's already an enormous spectacle, which is the Tracker,
1054
01:05:50.880 --> 01:05:54.079
you know, the three sixty in the two hundred. So
1055
01:05:55.119 --> 01:05:56.320
I know a lot of people put a lot of
1056
01:05:56.360 --> 01:05:59.800
work into putting on the event, but you know, we
1057
01:05:59.880 --> 01:06:03.280
got there, and we definitely felt, well, I personally felt
1058
01:06:03.320 --> 01:06:07.119
and speaking to a lot of my peers that you know,
1059
01:06:07.159 --> 01:06:09.840
we were just sort of right on the side. It
1060
01:06:09.920 --> 01:06:11.880
wasn't really clear where we had to go sign in
1061
01:06:13.440 --> 01:06:15.360
and you know, I'm not going to Goro and the
1062
01:06:15.400 --> 01:06:18.119
list everything that, you know, every fight with the with
1063
01:06:18.159 --> 01:06:18.559
the event.
1064
01:06:18.760 --> 01:06:20.760
But it didn't.
1065
01:06:21.719 --> 01:06:23.360
Yeah, it just felt like we were just sort of
1066
01:06:23.519 --> 01:06:27.119
something a little bit extra and that the organizers didn't
1067
01:06:27.280 --> 01:06:31.880
quite fully understand what I sort of see to be
1068
01:06:32.000 --> 01:06:36.480
like the ultra, you know, how an ultra should happen.
1069
01:06:38.039 --> 01:06:41.599
And I think that's where sort of, you know, a
1070
01:06:41.639 --> 01:06:45.639
few you know, heads sort of clashed really because people
1071
01:06:45.679 --> 01:06:47.800
like me, who maybe come from the longer the type events,
1072
01:06:48.239 --> 01:06:51.000
have a certain expectation as to what we expect an
1073
01:06:51.000 --> 01:06:53.639
event to be like and how it to be run
1074
01:06:54.519 --> 01:06:57.360
and what we are experiences, we're sort of expecting it,
1075
01:06:57.440 --> 01:07:02.400
of course, and then other people have different expectations for it.
1076
01:07:02.440 --> 01:07:04.840
And then I think that's where it can maybe clash
1077
01:07:04.960 --> 01:07:08.000
a little bit depending on sort of which side of
1078
01:07:08.039 --> 01:07:11.280
the you know, the spectrum you come from. And then
1079
01:07:11.320 --> 01:07:13.280
there are these people who are sort of in the
1080
01:07:13.280 --> 01:07:15.119
middle a little bit and sort of make their way.
1081
01:07:15.719 --> 01:07:19.199
But yeah, and in your case, what was it which
1082
01:07:19.400 --> 01:07:22.719
interested you about taking part in tracking in particular?
1083
01:07:23.400 --> 01:07:24.880
To be honest, the reason I entered it is because
1084
01:07:24.880 --> 01:07:28.239
I was going to be in Spain anyway, and I
1085
01:07:28.480 --> 01:07:30.800
thought that. I was like, I'm going to be in Spain,
1086
01:07:30.920 --> 01:07:33.079
then well I needed to be in spending a week after,
1087
01:07:33.400 --> 01:07:34.559
so I was like, oh, I might as well just
1088
01:07:34.599 --> 01:07:36.159
go down a week earlier and enter it because it
1089
01:07:36.159 --> 01:07:38.400
looks like it would be fun. And like, I just
1090
01:07:38.440 --> 01:07:40.119
want to be very clear, I had a lot of fun.
1091
01:07:40.119 --> 01:07:40.920
In the event.
1092
01:07:41.400 --> 01:07:45.840
I you know, I rode my bike in some beautiful places.
1093
01:07:46.320 --> 01:07:47.800
I was really pleased with my performance.
1094
01:07:48.840 --> 01:07:52.920
I spent some time with some really cool people, and yeah,
1095
01:07:52.960 --> 01:07:56.719
I had a great time. But there are always things
1096
01:07:56.719 --> 01:07:59.119
to improve on with all these things.
1097
01:08:00.559 --> 01:08:04.199
And you both talked about like the media exposure in
1098
01:08:04.199 --> 01:08:08.639
particularly these events. Get why do you why do you
1099
01:08:08.679 --> 01:08:11.039
think that is the case. Why are we're seeing such
1100
01:08:11.119 --> 01:08:14.920
interest in these these events where there too was made.
1101
01:08:15.559 --> 01:08:20.079
Yeah, so I think you know, GROWL is a really growing.
1102
01:08:21.319 --> 01:08:21.600
Seam.
1103
01:08:22.520 --> 01:08:26.680
And with that, brands would like to promote, let's say,
1104
01:08:26.840 --> 01:08:32.520
their new upcoming things that they are developing or releasing,
1105
01:08:33.600 --> 01:08:37.600
and these events which bring attention are a great way
1106
01:08:37.640 --> 01:08:41.079
to do it. But if you think, I mean the
1107
01:08:41.159 --> 01:08:45.680
track a week, everything was getting released, everyone was everywhere
1108
01:08:45.720 --> 01:08:48.600
doing content and everything, and at some point you think
1109
01:08:48.640 --> 01:08:53.920
about like, okay, like who even wants to observe all
1110
01:08:53.960 --> 01:08:59.039
of this happening, and like bring all the information, like
1111
01:08:59.119 --> 01:09:04.239
the news, Like you have different wheels, different bikes all
1112
01:09:04.279 --> 01:09:08.840
getting released in the same week. So it also happens
1113
01:09:08.880 --> 01:09:14.000
to be that, you know, brands invest a lot in
1114
01:09:14.039 --> 01:09:17.439
these kind of events for exactly I mean during these
1115
01:09:17.479 --> 01:09:20.880
events or bringing riders to these events for this exact reason,
1116
01:09:21.640 --> 01:09:27.039
to showcase what they have, like the big leap they
1117
01:09:27.079 --> 01:09:32.600
have made in the production or something they will release
1118
01:09:32.680 --> 01:09:37.960
at some point, and also results, you know, they bring
1119
01:09:38.000 --> 01:09:44.199
attention now somebody like let's if somebody wins on a
1120
01:09:44.239 --> 01:09:47.960
certain bike, of course people will look at him and say, oh,
1121
01:09:48.000 --> 01:09:51.920
look he won on Let's say this certain brand on
1122
01:09:51.960 --> 01:09:56.119
this new bike which will release soon. Let's dig into
1123
01:09:56.199 --> 01:09:59.560
more into it and see if the bike is actually
1124
01:10:00.359 --> 01:10:04.239
worth buying. And you know, people are interested because of that.
1125
01:10:04.720 --> 01:10:08.760
And I think that's why also these big brands like
1126
01:10:08.880 --> 01:10:14.199
to invest more and more because it's becoming a pretty
1127
01:10:14.640 --> 01:10:17.680
substantial part of the market for the bike.
1128
01:10:17.760 --> 01:10:23.119
Brands, I suppose to some of these events, they already
1129
01:10:23.159 --> 01:10:27.680
have the media attention that whole infrastructure there from the
1130
01:10:27.800 --> 01:10:33.680
shorter Gravel events, So it sort of seems natural to
1131
01:10:33.680 --> 01:10:36.840
have this attention on the ultra event which is also
1132
01:10:36.920 --> 01:10:39.399
going on at the same time because many of the
1133
01:10:39.399 --> 01:10:42.399
things you mentioned, Adam, there's no reason why that couldn't
1134
01:10:42.399 --> 01:10:45.239
be done around stand alone ultra events.
1135
01:10:45.399 --> 01:10:48.479
Let's say, yeah, but I mean it wouldn't bring the
1136
01:10:48.520 --> 01:10:52.359
same attention that it does events like Tracker or Unbound,
1137
01:10:53.920 --> 01:10:57.800
where most of the people, let's say the main events
1138
01:10:57.840 --> 01:11:02.680
in Europe or US, most of their brands are also
1139
01:11:02.760 --> 01:11:06.399
based and release their new stuff or prototypes.
1140
01:11:07.520 --> 01:11:12.720
Totally interesting points there, and I think what Adam has
1141
01:11:12.760 --> 01:11:15.520
said kind of hits the nail on the head is that,
1142
01:11:15.680 --> 01:11:20.199
like the events coming from Gravel, Gravel was invented to
1143
01:11:20.319 --> 01:11:24.159
fill a gap in the market we buy more bikes,
1144
01:11:24.239 --> 01:11:29.119
whereas bike packing has always been a bit more about cottage,
1145
01:11:29.479 --> 01:11:32.560
small frame builders, stuff like that. So it's interesting to
1146
01:11:32.560 --> 01:11:37.319
see that potentially an element of it is marketing. So
1147
01:11:37.600 --> 01:11:40.000
moving on from like what Adam said, and also what
1148
01:11:40.039 --> 01:11:46.039
Angus mentioned about this being part of like rules and principles,
1149
01:11:47.239 --> 01:11:52.399
why do you think that these events have so much controversy.
1150
01:11:52.479 --> 01:11:57.039
Is it misinterpretation, is it ignorance or is it like
1151
01:11:58.199 --> 01:12:00.640
this wasn't even in the question, but it winner takes
1152
01:12:00.680 --> 01:12:03.880
all mentality because there is so much money on the line.
1153
01:12:04.159 --> 01:12:05.840
Angus that you've been on the scene for a very
1154
01:12:05.840 --> 01:12:08.960
long time. You tend to work with smaller brands. So
1155
01:12:09.079 --> 01:12:12.319
what do you think about this idea about why there's controversy?
1156
01:12:12.359 --> 01:12:13.000
Is it the rules?
1157
01:12:13.079 --> 01:12:13.760
Is it the brand?
1158
01:12:14.800 --> 01:12:19.720
Even in longer bike packing races, there is this maybe
1159
01:12:19.760 --> 01:12:24.720
like vagueness to the rules that unless you've sort of
1160
01:12:24.760 --> 01:12:27.359
been in the scene and you know you've been through
1161
01:12:27.359 --> 01:12:29.319
a lot of these discussions, and you may be being
1162
01:12:29.319 --> 01:12:31.880
caught out the other time, I've been caught out before
1163
01:12:32.760 --> 01:12:35.119
where things that I thought were maybe sort of counters
1164
01:12:35.279 --> 01:12:40.520
in gb Jerry twenty one or twenty two, when my
1165
01:12:40.640 --> 01:12:45.159
bike broke and a local was there, like he lent
1166
01:12:45.239 --> 01:12:46.840
me his bike to do last hundred k and I
1167
01:12:46.840 --> 01:12:48.159
thought that was fine because it was just like he
1168
01:12:48.199 --> 01:12:50.439
didn't come out to see me or anything.
1169
01:12:50.479 --> 01:12:51.880
He was just there out on a bike ride.
1170
01:12:52.119 --> 01:12:54.800
And I thought that'd be fine because in a different event,
1171
01:12:55.039 --> 01:12:58.720
something suchly different that's happened and you know you maybe
1172
01:12:58.760 --> 01:13:01.039
get caught out by these things.
1173
01:13:01.560 --> 01:13:04.439
And the rules are you know, a little bit vague.
1174
01:13:04.479 --> 01:13:07.079
What counts as you know, quote unquote trail magic, what
1175
01:13:07.279 --> 01:13:12.359
counts as outside support, And every event does have different rules,
1176
01:13:12.640 --> 01:13:15.119
and even if on the paper they're the same, the
1177
01:13:15.159 --> 01:13:21.359
event directors or you know, keyboard warriors think differently about
1178
01:13:21.600 --> 01:13:25.239
the event and they have different opinions on what's allowed.
1179
01:13:25.279 --> 01:13:27.720
You know, there's lots of things that happen out on
1180
01:13:27.760 --> 01:13:30.760
Tour Divide that wouldn't be allowed to happen in other events,
1181
01:13:30.800 --> 01:13:32.840
like you know, people getting cash it, you know, picking
1182
01:13:32.920 --> 01:13:36.560
up gatorade that people have cashed, et cetera. Like you know,
1183
01:13:36.760 --> 01:13:39.159
not their have cash, but Trail Angels have left, you
1184
01:13:39.199 --> 01:13:41.600
know for Tour Divide people, and you know, lots of
1185
01:13:41.640 --> 01:13:46.800
events that wouldn't fly. So again, it's there's a lot
1186
01:13:46.800 --> 01:13:48.840
of substy to a lot of these rules. And I
1187
01:13:48.840 --> 01:13:50.840
think that when you get to this crossover.
1188
01:13:52.319 --> 01:13:53.640
Because partly because it's.
1189
01:13:53.520 --> 01:13:55.359
So competitive and because there's so much on the line,
1190
01:13:55.399 --> 01:13:57.680
and partly because a lot of people are coming from
1191
01:13:57.760 --> 01:14:02.279
it from a different angle that and they might not
1192
01:14:02.359 --> 01:14:02.800
have had a.
1193
01:14:02.800 --> 01:14:04.399
Lot of those experiences.
1194
01:14:05.720 --> 01:14:07.800
They might have a different interpretation of the rules, and
1195
01:14:07.840 --> 01:14:11.640
also the event directors might have a different interpretation, but
1196
01:14:11.760 --> 01:14:12.319
they're their rules.
1197
01:14:12.359 --> 01:14:13.479
They can do whatever they want with them.
1198
01:14:13.800 --> 01:14:17.560
But you know how I see how I've see the rules,
1199
01:14:18.520 --> 01:14:21.279
So you know, I think people maybe come into it
1200
01:14:21.319 --> 01:14:25.439
from a you know, more bike packing race, you know,
1201
01:14:25.720 --> 01:14:29.279
full on one hundred percent, you know, you know where
1202
01:14:29.319 --> 01:14:32.279
you are, and then maybe my interpretation of rules is
1203
01:14:32.720 --> 01:14:36.640
slightly different to how other people might interpret them. Yeah,
1204
01:14:36.680 --> 01:14:42.640
so it's it's difficult because the rules, you know, it's
1205
01:14:42.800 --> 01:14:44.880
very rare for an event to actually write down every
1206
01:14:44.920 --> 01:14:49.439
single rule and every single you know in case, because
1207
01:14:49.600 --> 01:14:51.399
a lot so much can happen on one of these events.
1208
01:14:51.359 --> 01:14:55.039
They're so long that it's impossible really for an event
1209
01:14:55.079 --> 01:14:57.880
to write down every single you know possibility.
1210
01:14:58.600 --> 01:15:03.720
Yeah, so yeah, it's difficult. I don't know.
1211
01:15:04.760 --> 01:15:08.239
It's interesting. It was twenty twenty one because I had
1212
01:15:08.319 --> 01:15:11.079
just started at Docher and that was like the first
1213
01:15:11.600 --> 01:15:17.439
example of like a a principle is this self supported
1214
01:15:17.520 --> 01:15:19.279
or is it not? There were all these arguments that
1215
01:15:19.359 --> 01:15:22.840
if it wasn't Angus who was winning the race, would
1216
01:15:22.920 --> 01:15:24.800
somebody have leant their bike And it was a very
1217
01:15:24.840 --> 01:15:29.359
interesting thought experiment, and I guess maybe part of what's
1218
01:15:29.359 --> 01:15:32.199
happening at these crossover events is that we're having these
1219
01:15:32.239 --> 01:15:35.439
scenarios and we're having to work them out as though.
1220
01:15:36.279 --> 01:15:39.159
So I guess, Adam, like, what are your thoughts about
1221
01:15:39.159 --> 01:15:42.399
this controversy. Do you think it's principles and rules, do
1222
01:15:42.479 --> 01:15:44.520
you think it's something else, or do you think it's
1223
01:15:44.600 --> 01:15:47.680
that there's people coming into it from different areas. What
1224
01:15:48.039 --> 01:15:49.119
are your thoughts?
1225
01:15:50.119 --> 01:15:53.960
I mean, as Angus mentioned, there are a lot of
1226
01:15:54.000 --> 01:15:56.439
things that can happen. I mean, if you think about
1227
01:15:56.520 --> 01:16:02.159
twenty twenty four Colorado Trail see us the will thing
1228
01:16:02.479 --> 01:16:07.560
where he took a car. I mean, you know, it happens,
1229
01:16:07.600 --> 01:16:11.039
you get caught out. But these are the things that
1230
01:16:11.079 --> 01:16:14.279
you don't do on purpose. But in some cases you
1231
01:16:14.319 --> 01:16:18.279
know there are rules. But let's say some people are
1232
01:16:18.520 --> 01:16:26.720
opportun opportunistic and because some races bring attention you get
1233
01:16:27.600 --> 01:16:32.279
they can bring like let's say, life changing results. People
1234
01:16:32.319 --> 01:16:39.800
will take the opportunity to maybe try and like get
1235
01:16:39.840 --> 01:16:44.239
over the rules or not follow them to bring a
1236
01:16:44.279 --> 01:16:49.239
result which will help them in the future. But if
1237
01:16:49.800 --> 01:16:53.920
there is no clear complaint process, like if there are rules,
1238
01:16:53.960 --> 01:16:55.039
there should also be.
1239
01:16:54.960 --> 01:16:57.439
A clear complaint process.
1240
01:16:57.239 --> 01:17:01.399
And it should be taken seriously by the word, because
1241
01:17:01.439 --> 01:17:04.159
I think most of the events have rules in place
1242
01:17:04.319 --> 01:17:08.359
which are there for a reason, but a lot of
1243
01:17:08.399 --> 01:17:13.000
them don't want to apply them because you know, it's
1244
01:17:13.239 --> 01:17:17.199
let's say it's that they don't take it that seriously
1245
01:17:18.279 --> 01:17:22.680
in my opinion, Like the good example was Traka. I mean,
1246
01:17:23.159 --> 01:17:26.199
it's an adventure. They call it an adventure, so I
1247
01:17:26.239 --> 01:17:29.840
guess they just don't take it that seriously. And in
1248
01:17:29.920 --> 01:17:33.319
the end, they also don't apply the rules in the
1249
01:17:33.359 --> 01:17:38.880
way it should be applied. So setting some standard where
1250
01:17:39.279 --> 01:17:41.399
or somebody who helps.
1251
01:17:42.119 --> 01:17:42.880
With these.
1252
01:17:44.279 --> 01:17:49.000
Complaints or you know, if somebody handles or somebody does
1253
01:17:49.039 --> 01:17:54.720
a complaint towards somebody's action, there should be someone some
1254
01:17:54.800 --> 01:17:59.800
third party who should help the organizer to think about
1255
01:17:59.840 --> 01:18:03.960
what's the reasonable let's call penalty for that.
1256
01:18:05.520 --> 01:18:06.560
I think that happened.
1257
01:18:07.640 --> 01:18:11.560
You're getting dangerously clos there to calling for a governing body.
1258
01:18:11.760 --> 01:18:16.640
Adam sounds like. I think that inconsistency with implementing the
1259
01:18:16.720 --> 01:18:22.479
rules is something we talk about after Tracker as well.
1260
01:18:23.039 --> 01:18:28.760
That does come back to this lag between the potential
1261
01:18:28.800 --> 01:18:32.239
rewards from these events and what it's what it takes
1262
01:18:32.359 --> 01:18:37.880
to police them. Because We're talking about events that cover
1263
01:18:38.239 --> 01:18:41.720
many hundreds of kilometers, lasting for a lot of hours,
1264
01:18:41.760 --> 01:18:45.520
with hundreds of competitors, So how can the organizer be
1265
01:18:45.720 --> 01:18:49.119
on top of everything that's going on. So at the moment,
1266
01:18:49.439 --> 01:18:52.840
with the resources we have a lot of it's still
1267
01:18:52.880 --> 01:18:57.319
got to come back to the integrity of riders, and
1268
01:18:57.760 --> 01:19:01.560
potentially that means people being a bit more forthcoming about
1269
01:19:01.840 --> 01:19:05.359
calling out behavior that they don't see as fitting in
1270
01:19:05.439 --> 01:19:09.960
with the spirit and the rules, and well holding ourselves
1271
01:19:10.000 --> 01:19:10.479
to account.
1272
01:19:10.560 --> 01:19:15.079
Essentially, I think currently the main thing that is holding
1273
01:19:15.159 --> 01:19:18.520
back a lot of the events is the GPS tracking
1274
01:19:19.680 --> 01:19:24.479
because it's not very clear at some points, you know,
1275
01:19:24.560 --> 01:19:27.720
it loses connection and things like that, so you cannot
1276
01:19:27.840 --> 01:19:29.760
really check if.
1277
01:19:29.600 --> 01:19:32.079
Things were done wrong or they were done right.
1278
01:19:33.000 --> 01:19:36.640
So I think this is one of the major parts
1279
01:19:36.760 --> 01:19:41.680
which would help the organizers to then also improve the
1280
01:19:41.760 --> 01:19:47.520
situation in terms of let's say a lot of controversies
1281
01:19:47.600 --> 01:19:48.640
that can happen.
1282
01:19:51.720 --> 01:19:52.960
But then also.
1283
01:19:54.560 --> 01:19:58.279
With that you could help organizers, like if you think
1284
01:19:58.319 --> 01:20:04.119
about it, Nelson, he really does take care of his results,
1285
01:20:04.159 --> 01:20:08.279
Like Atlas Mountain Race results were published two months.
1286
01:20:08.000 --> 01:20:11.479
After, so he does really pot working as.
1287
01:20:11.359 --> 01:20:17.199
An organizer and once to his events to be let's say,
1288
01:20:17.239 --> 01:20:23.520
a gold standard for something that other events can look
1289
01:20:23.600 --> 01:20:23.800
up to.
1290
01:20:24.600 --> 01:20:31.479
Speaking about these rules and principles of self supported races
1291
01:20:31.920 --> 01:20:35.840
and events, how do we think they can be better
1292
01:20:35.920 --> 01:20:39.439
clarified and how do we see this can help the
1293
01:20:39.520 --> 01:20:44.079
scene as it evolves in the future. Angush would be
1294
01:20:44.119 --> 01:20:47.840
good to start this as a new event to organizer yourself.
1295
01:20:48.600 --> 01:20:51.920
Yeah, I think that the clarity is a really important
1296
01:20:51.960 --> 01:20:56.920
thing because it's okay, in my opinion anyway, that different
1297
01:20:56.960 --> 01:21:01.199
events have subtly different rule sets. So for instance, with
1298
01:21:01.279 --> 01:21:04.479
my events read last weekend, I made it very very
1299
01:21:04.520 --> 01:21:07.279
clear to the riders that they're allowed to help each
1300
01:21:07.319 --> 01:21:11.880
other there, and they're allowed to you know, lend a
1301
01:21:11.880 --> 01:21:16.319
pump or such and such, or if you know, they
1302
01:21:16.359 --> 01:21:20.760
need picking up from somewhere, you know, we can go
1303
01:21:20.800 --> 01:21:22.960
get them and get them back to base, getting you
1304
01:21:22.960 --> 01:21:25.600
know a little bit of help from the organizers, that
1305
01:21:25.680 --> 01:21:28.119
sort of thing. I was gave loads of detail about
1306
01:21:28.119 --> 01:21:30.760
where resupplies was. I'd you know, talk people through the
1307
01:21:30.840 --> 01:21:33.640
route that sort of thing, help them out as well,
1308
01:21:33.720 --> 01:21:36.039
Like if they're you know, one chat was stuck with
1309
01:21:36.079 --> 01:21:39.720
his seat clamp and hard you know, talking through have
1310
01:21:39.920 --> 01:21:43.079
a potential bog that sort of thing, and I think
1311
01:21:43.119 --> 01:21:47.399
there's a space for every everywhere on that spectrum. I
1312
01:21:47.439 --> 01:21:49.520
just think it needs to be really clear so that
1313
01:21:49.560 --> 01:21:52.000
people know where they stand both when they're entering event
1314
01:21:52.079 --> 01:21:55.520
and then also in the moment, because you don't want
1315
01:21:55.560 --> 01:21:57.439
to be caught out thinking you're doing something which is
1316
01:21:57.479 --> 01:22:03.880
okay and it isn't, and that is just a yeah,
1317
01:22:03.960 --> 01:22:08.039
that's on the event directors to just make it as
1318
01:22:08.079 --> 01:22:12.319
clear as possible what is allowed and what isn't. And
1319
01:22:12.600 --> 01:22:14.279
I'd be honest, I think the only way of really
1320
01:22:14.319 --> 01:22:18.000
doing that is like having it in black and white,
1321
01:22:18.399 --> 01:22:21.760
and then also in the race briefing it's a lot
1322
01:22:21.800 --> 01:22:24.359
easier to you know, discuss these things and you know,
1323
01:22:25.159 --> 01:22:27.800
give people an opportunity to ask questions.
1324
01:22:29.880 --> 01:22:30.319
As well.
1325
01:22:31.600 --> 01:22:35.279
But yeah, it's on the organizer, I think really, and
1326
01:22:35.640 --> 01:22:40.560
I suppose askers athletes as well to make sure that
1327
01:22:40.880 --> 01:22:41.880
the organizers know that.
1328
01:22:42.439 --> 01:22:45.399
Do you think that some people.
1329
01:22:46.800 --> 01:22:50.920
Potentially overlook the self supported side of things if they
1330
01:22:50.920 --> 01:22:59.119
are coming from the shorter gravel distances events where there
1331
01:22:59.239 --> 01:23:02.479
isn't that same liliment, Because for instance, I was looking
1332
01:23:02.520 --> 01:23:08.159
at the Tracker manual earlier and there are common rules
1333
01:23:08.199 --> 01:23:11.439
for across all of the durations, but then there's certain
1334
01:23:11.479 --> 01:23:15.439
elements for that only apply to the three sixties. So
1335
01:23:15.560 --> 01:23:17.560
you think there's some confusion there of how the rules
1336
01:23:17.600 --> 01:23:20.119
are set out in the first place. Then you gave
1337
01:23:20.199 --> 01:23:22.640
some examples in that article that you did for the
1338
01:23:22.680 --> 01:23:25.479
dot watch substack it, even those that you'd like to
1339
01:23:25.640 --> 01:23:26.359
elaborate on.
1340
01:23:27.239 --> 01:23:32.520
Yeah, so I think it should be clearly defined is
1341
01:23:32.560 --> 01:23:36.159
it an adventure or a RaSE, because if you have
1342
01:23:36.199 --> 01:23:42.239
an adventure, then there are podiums and results and people celebrated.
1343
01:23:42.800 --> 01:23:45.039
It's it's a raise basically.
1344
01:23:46.119 --> 01:23:51.920
So having a clear difference is it an adventure or
1345
01:23:52.000 --> 01:23:56.159
an event or is it a raise does define what people,
1346
01:23:56.239 --> 01:23:59.720
how people would treat it, and which kind of people
1347
01:23:59.720 --> 01:24:03.520
will enter, because if it's an event, people will come
1348
01:24:03.560 --> 01:24:07.319
there with the self I mean with the ultra mind,
1349
01:24:07.439 --> 01:24:14.039
so the like usual ultra events, which is more let's
1350
01:24:14.079 --> 01:24:19.600
say free and not as strict, and people will not
1351
01:24:19.680 --> 01:24:22.079
come there primarily to race, but to have a good
1352
01:24:22.119 --> 01:24:25.560
time and spend some days in the wild.
1353
01:24:26.800 --> 01:24:28.760
But if it's a race, people will.
1354
01:24:28.560 --> 01:24:34.079
Come there preparing for this event to also get the result,
1355
01:24:34.279 --> 01:24:38.159
and I mean a lot of times this does exclude
1356
01:24:38.199 --> 01:24:40.079
them the enjoyment.
1357
01:24:39.680 --> 01:24:44.840
Of bike packing. For example, a traka like the first
1358
01:24:44.840 --> 01:24:45.560
three hours it.
1359
01:24:45.640 --> 01:24:50.399
Was drafting, and you know, it excludes the example of
1360
01:24:50.479 --> 01:24:54.800
the usual self supported events where you're there on yourself,
1361
01:24:55.119 --> 01:25:01.319
out on yourself and enjoying it. So like a clear
1362
01:25:01.479 --> 01:25:05.520
definition of the rules firstly, and then also the type
1363
01:25:05.560 --> 01:25:06.359
of event it is.
1364
01:25:07.439 --> 01:25:10.680
But also I think a lot of organizers.
1365
01:25:11.520 --> 01:25:16.319
Like applying those things if you have several events at
1366
01:25:16.319 --> 01:25:20.960
the same time. I understand it's hard, but I think
1367
01:25:21.000 --> 01:25:26.920
everyone should get the same attention because everyone, like everyone
1368
01:25:27.000 --> 01:25:31.479
paid their entry fee, everyone wants to be there to
1369
01:25:31.520 --> 01:25:35.680
experience it, and also like then everyone should get the
1370
01:25:35.720 --> 01:25:39.920
same amount of attention like every event. And from what
1371
01:25:40.000 --> 01:25:43.560
I've heard, I think the five sixty is is not
1372
01:25:43.680 --> 01:25:47.159
going to happen in the next year just because of
1373
01:25:47.239 --> 01:25:51.159
that reason, because they feel like they couldn't fulfill the
1374
01:25:51.239 --> 01:25:56.960
needs of the athletes and they understood the situation. But
1375
01:25:57.039 --> 01:26:01.359
I think it's a great event. It just needs and
1376
01:26:01.399 --> 01:26:03.960
I hope it comes back at some point, but I
1377
01:26:04.000 --> 01:26:09.920
think it needs a clear set of rules and definition
1378
01:26:10.119 --> 01:26:10.840
of what it is.
1379
01:26:13.399 --> 01:26:17.119
I love this idea of us all coming home from
1380
01:26:17.199 --> 01:26:20.560
every ride and just getting sprayed with champagne. Because we've
1381
01:26:20.560 --> 01:26:25.079
had an adventure that's really entertained me. But it's an
1382
01:26:25.079 --> 01:26:28.520
interesting point that you can't. You can't call something an
1383
01:26:28.560 --> 01:26:31.520
adventure and make everyone say pay the same amount and
1384
01:26:31.600 --> 01:26:34.279
join the same thing, and then only one person gets
1385
01:26:34.279 --> 01:26:37.399
the champagne reception. They better have five hundred bottles of
1386
01:26:37.479 --> 01:26:39.199
champagne or no. None.
1387
01:26:41.079 --> 01:26:41.319
Yeah.
1388
01:26:41.359 --> 01:26:46.640
I do feel for the organizers though, because legally they
1389
01:26:46.680 --> 01:26:48.159
would want to call it a race. From what I
1390
01:26:48.199 --> 01:26:52.439
can tell, it's just that, you know, and it's very
1391
01:26:52.600 --> 01:26:55.159
country by country, you know, lots of these events that
1392
01:26:55.199 --> 01:26:59.800
we do are races. They're just called anything other than
1393
01:27:00.199 --> 01:27:03.760
a race. It's called an event or a quote ultra
1394
01:27:04.000 --> 01:27:06.359
or such and such, just because legally it's so hard to,
1395
01:27:06.800 --> 01:27:10.840
certainly in the UK, to cover yourself for being a race.
1396
01:27:12.880 --> 01:27:19.439
So I think just relying on the nomenclature alone is very,
1397
01:27:19.560 --> 01:27:21.720
very difficult, because you can still want to put on
1398
01:27:21.800 --> 01:27:25.600
something which is as close to a race as you want,
1399
01:27:25.840 --> 01:27:29.159
but if you can't actually call it a race, then
1400
01:27:29.239 --> 01:27:34.039
it becomes very difficult, certainly in the UK. Just yeah,
1401
01:27:34.319 --> 01:27:37.159
because you're not allowed to race on rightaways in any way.
1402
01:27:37.279 --> 01:27:37.760
Ultimately.
1403
01:27:37.800 --> 01:27:40.359
But that's interesting because I think maybe that's something that
1404
01:27:40.399 --> 01:27:44.199
only people who've put on a race no, and that
1405
01:27:44.319 --> 01:27:47.560
actually if it was more commonly acknowledged that it is
1406
01:27:47.600 --> 01:27:50.880
a race in all but named, people might understand it's
1407
01:27:50.920 --> 01:27:55.000
a bit more of a race, which is difficult because
1408
01:27:55.399 --> 01:28:00.560
you're talking about some events that are touching four five thousands.
1409
01:28:01.239 --> 01:28:04.439
You can't go to every single town and ask for
1410
01:28:04.720 --> 01:28:07.399
race permission or whatever. So the only way you're right
1411
01:28:07.479 --> 01:28:10.680
to get around it is by labeling an event, which
1412
01:28:10.720 --> 01:28:13.159
is why I think as much as calls for a
1413
01:28:13.199 --> 01:28:16.439
governing body of ultra cycling, we've got to be really
1414
01:28:16.479 --> 01:28:20.479
careful in turning what's quite a grassroots under the radar
1415
01:28:20.560 --> 01:28:24.399
sport into some massive thing where we have to go
1416
01:28:24.760 --> 01:28:28.640
fround the route with a fine toothcomb and find health
1417
01:28:28.720 --> 01:28:30.399
and safety officers to tick them off.
1418
01:28:31.039 --> 01:28:34.039
Yeah. I don't really know what the solution is to that.
1419
01:28:34.119 --> 01:28:35.640
I don't think there is one. I think it's just
1420
01:28:35.640 --> 01:28:39.399
trying to skirt it all until and I know there
1421
01:28:39.439 --> 01:28:45.359
are some events in the UK which are branded as races.
1422
01:28:45.880 --> 01:28:50.600
I think I think It's Solstice Sprint might be ensured
1423
01:28:50.640 --> 01:28:57.560
as a race. I might be wrong about that, allegedly allegedly,
1424
01:28:59.119 --> 01:29:01.479
but it's because I spoke to quite a few people
1425
01:29:02.119 --> 01:29:04.640
about before my event, about you know what insurance that
1426
01:29:04.680 --> 01:29:08.720
I needed and things, and yeah, so it is possible,
1427
01:29:08.760 --> 01:29:13.119
but it's just quite costly. So we anyway, as you say,
1428
01:29:13.159 --> 01:29:14.520
that's a discussion for another time.
1429
01:29:15.720 --> 01:29:19.319
What is what is a race? It's there, you see
1430
01:29:19.319 --> 01:29:20.119
definition there.
1431
01:29:20.439 --> 01:29:24.560
I think it all comes back to our own motivations,
1432
01:29:24.600 --> 01:29:28.439
like are we going there to try our best? Because
1433
01:29:28.439 --> 01:29:30.640
that's sort of what we can do essentially in these
1434
01:29:30.680 --> 01:29:31.520
type of events.
1435
01:29:32.000 --> 01:29:34.399
I mean, in the end, it's a challenge with their selves.
1436
01:29:35.119 --> 01:29:40.119
We are not racing there with others. Like you're out there, let's.
1437
01:29:39.960 --> 01:29:43.920
Say in Morocco or Gusy is done for six days
1438
01:29:44.680 --> 01:29:49.279
and you're not there to deal with others and other
1439
01:29:49.359 --> 01:29:53.000
people's problems and racing with others, but like dealing with
1440
01:29:53.039 --> 01:29:58.680
your own problems, you're out there on yourself. So I
1441
01:29:58.720 --> 01:30:01.800
think in the end it's a personal challenge for everyone.
1442
01:30:02.720 --> 01:30:06.039
I think that's maybe a nice place to wrap it up.
1443
01:30:06.159 --> 01:30:10.600
That's well, we've we've sort of come back to this
1444
01:30:10.680 --> 01:30:14.119
whole spirit of it and struggling to find these words
1445
01:30:14.159 --> 01:30:17.760
for a definition. But I think we can all sort
1446
01:30:17.760 --> 01:30:20.439
of picture in our minds what this what this difference
1447
01:30:20.560 --> 01:30:23.399
is when you're when we're talking about these two different scenes,
1448
01:30:23.439 --> 01:30:26.600
and it's it's really interesting to see where they where
1449
01:30:26.640 --> 01:30:30.520
they overlappened. I'm sure we'll see we'll see this continuing
1450
01:30:30.560 --> 01:30:33.520
into the future and it gives us plenty to talk
1451
01:30:33.560 --> 01:30:37.520
about in the meantime. So it's been a really interesting discussion.
1452
01:30:38.000 --> 01:30:41.279
Thank you, thank you Adam, thank you Angus for joining us.
1453
01:30:41.920 --> 01:30:44.560
It's been a pleasure. And I think what Kuldy said
1454
01:30:44.640 --> 01:30:48.279
right at the start essentially is vibespaced. It's how I
1455
01:30:48.359 --> 01:30:51.119
sort of wrap the whole thing up, just to add
1456
01:30:51.159 --> 01:30:52.479
my two cents right at the end.
1457
01:30:52.840 --> 01:30:55.079
It's just vibespaced fit.
1458
01:30:59.720 --> 01:31:01.880
How a chapeau of the month. So each month we
1459
01:31:02.000 --> 01:31:04.600
pick out someone or something that deserves the recognition and
1460
01:31:04.640 --> 01:31:06.439
a bit of a tip of the hat. And I
1461
01:31:06.520 --> 01:31:11.520
picked up a story which was recognized on Utrecht Ultra
1462
01:31:12.720 --> 01:31:18.640
and from our from our commentator there. It concerns a
1463
01:31:18.640 --> 01:31:22.680
father than some pair in the race, Stephen Baldwin and yours.
1464
01:31:24.359 --> 01:31:27.760
It starts with bad luck though that Stephen lost his wallet,
1465
01:31:28.560 --> 01:31:33.479
but it was found by a local who managed to
1466
01:31:33.560 --> 01:31:37.560
contact Stephen via Facebook and found out that he was
1467
01:31:37.600 --> 01:31:42.039
doing this culture race. So the personally found the wallet,
1468
01:31:42.680 --> 01:31:47.039
managed to use the raised tracker to track down the
1469
01:31:47.119 --> 01:31:50.840
pair and return the return the wallet to them, So
1470
01:31:50.880 --> 01:31:56.119
it shows that Yeah, no, there's sometimes concerns around rider
1471
01:31:56.760 --> 01:32:00.000
safety and privacy when when they are being tracked by
1472
01:32:00.279 --> 01:32:03.399
Time does potentially have this upside that if you lose
1473
01:32:03.439 --> 01:32:07.800
something and you'll be a your identified, then someone knows
1474
01:32:07.800 --> 01:32:09.680
where you are to be able to return it. So
1475
01:32:09.720 --> 01:32:11.800
I thought that was a really nice gesture by this person.
1476
01:32:12.279 --> 01:32:14.760
Yeah, and I think that that is a true example
1477
01:32:15.000 --> 01:32:20.319
of a trail angel, a complete coincidence, just a kind
1478
01:32:20.439 --> 01:32:24.960
person looking to do something for some cool riders. It's
1479
01:32:25.159 --> 01:32:29.119
very nice. Also for chapeau. Every month you can buy
1480
01:32:29.279 --> 01:32:34.239
a cap for Nail wilcoxes around the world attempt, so
1481
01:32:34.279 --> 01:32:36.359
that would be a true chapeau for next month we
1482
01:32:36.399 --> 01:32:39.279
can both wear them.
1483
01:32:38.359 --> 01:32:39.760
A literal chapeau.
1484
01:32:43.960 --> 01:32:47.880
And best of bikes off because every good audio podcast
1485
01:32:47.920 --> 01:32:51.880
needs a visual led feature. So each month our co
1486
01:32:52.000 --> 01:32:56.359
host that's used Time Kitty chooses a bike and set
1487
01:32:56.399 --> 01:32:58.319
up from recent bikes of article on the dot watch
1488
01:32:58.399 --> 01:33:01.359
website has caught your eye.
1489
01:33:01.319 --> 01:33:05.640
This time, so I've picked Beyond Remschneider's bike, which is
1490
01:33:05.680 --> 01:33:08.680
a fern Chatcha and for Amanda he's got forty four
1491
01:33:08.720 --> 01:33:13.479
mill Victoria mescals on and this has a roll off
1492
01:33:13.560 --> 01:33:18.399
hub in it, so it's an interesting choice for Trans
1493
01:33:18.479 --> 01:33:21.159
Bulcan's race. But on the other side of the conversation
1494
01:33:21.239 --> 01:33:25.680
about Robin and bikes that are prototypes is the one
1495
01:33:25.680 --> 01:33:27.920
thing that we do see an Ultra all these beautiful,
1496
01:33:28.319 --> 01:33:32.560
unique bikes that wouldn't be allowed anywhere else in professional cycling,
1497
01:33:33.600 --> 01:33:37.359
So definitely worth taking a look at the Transvulcan race bikes,
1498
01:33:37.399 --> 01:33:39.880
of which has three pages of bikes view to have
1499
01:33:39.920 --> 01:33:40.359
a look at.
1500
01:33:41.760 --> 01:33:45.720
We don't see a huge amount of these internal gearing
1501
01:33:45.800 --> 01:33:49.279
systems on ultra bikes, but they do make a lot
1502
01:33:49.279 --> 01:33:53.159
of sense in terms of this less exposed to go wrong,
1503
01:33:53.600 --> 01:33:56.960
especially on events such as this where you are on
1504
01:33:57.000 --> 01:33:58.159
some quite rugged terrain.
1505
01:33:59.439 --> 01:34:02.800
Yes, I think potentially that they're very neat. You see
1506
01:34:02.800 --> 01:34:05.680
the more owed actors, don't you. They're like the animal strikes,
1507
01:34:05.720 --> 01:34:09.520
They're very niche. But I also think the only limiting
1508
01:34:09.560 --> 01:34:14.399
factor is potentially the lack of aductability and choice, especially
1509
01:34:14.479 --> 01:34:17.039
for riders taking on multiple events. But we could see
1510
01:34:17.039 --> 01:34:18.119
a resurgent.
1511
01:34:19.279 --> 01:34:24.479
Yeah, that's has its advanceage and disadvantages I suppose, so yeah,
1512
01:34:24.600 --> 01:34:27.079
an interesting one to check out on the bikes off
1513
01:34:27.079 --> 01:34:28.159
there definitely.
1514
01:34:30.039 --> 01:34:31.920
So that's all we have this month.
1515
01:34:32.239 --> 01:34:34.479
If you have any submissions then please get in touched
1516
01:34:34.479 --> 01:34:37.439
by Instagram. We are at dot COM's pod or you
1517
01:34:37.479 --> 01:34:42.119
can email us at dot Com'spod at gmail dot com.
1518
01:34:42.279 --> 01:34:44.319
As I often say, if you.
1519
01:34:44.319 --> 01:34:48.000
Have any feedback or any comments, then please do get
1520
01:34:48.000 --> 01:34:51.119
in touch because all of your interaction is really appreciated
1521
01:34:51.720 --> 01:34:54.119
and each and every one of you as listeners really
1522
01:34:54.159 --> 01:34:57.359
makes a difference. There's a lot coming up this month,
1523
01:34:57.479 --> 01:35:00.000
so check out the commentaries on the dot watch rep
1524
01:35:00.119 --> 01:35:03.520
site and if you're interested in volunteering for commentaries then
1525
01:35:03.960 --> 01:35:07.399
please get in touch. As Kitty was keen highlight at
1526
01:35:07.399 --> 01:35:10.840
the top, and there's also regular features coming out there
1527
01:35:10.880 --> 01:35:13.920
as well. So thank you very much for joining Kitty,
1528
01:35:14.600 --> 01:35:15.039
Thank you.
1529
01:35:15.039 --> 01:35:15.760
Thank you for having me.
1530
01:35:15.800 --> 01:35:19.159
It's been good fun and we will speak to you
1531
01:35:19.199 --> 01:35:21.479
in a week's time with on the Dot and on
1532
01:35:21.520 --> 01:35:24.479
the first Thursday next month for our next regular episode.
1533
01:35:24.880 --> 01:35:27.279
So thanks again and goodbye.
1534
01:35:27.920 --> 01:35:28.039
Hi