WEBVTT
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00:00:04.488Welcome to DollCast.
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00:00:12.608With Kelly Carrigan.
00:00:12.608 -->
00:00:17.312I know you guys are going to tell me I'm crazy, but I think all gay men would benefit from a gender transition.
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00:00:18.724Rihanna Woods.
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00:00:20.446Do you know who Rihanna Woods is?
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00:00:22.426It was people on the line.
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00:00:25.309I actually never knew her, so I don't have a lot of approach to this stuff.
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00:00:27.210Skylar Bogart.
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00:00:35.210More confused on girls or boys would be a better fit for me, and when you're bisexual and you have the potential for either, you've got to parse that out a little bit.
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00:00:37.325Intaj Tav.
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00:00:44.213Having your story heard, having people empathize with you on that kind of political level, I think is really hard to do.
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00:00:46.661It's the Dog Cats, dog Cats.
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00:00:52.588People empathize with you on that kind of political level, I think it's really hard to do.
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00:00:58.595Hello and welcome back to doll cast, where real talk meets the touch of glam and plenty of laughs.
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00:01:06.682I'm your host, skylar, and we have an absolutely stacked episode today, with some fierce topics and even fiercer opinions.
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00:01:13.281But first let me introduce the brilliant and ever entertaining crew who make every episode sparkle.
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00:01:19.272So first up we have the wise and mystical muse herself, taftaj.
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00:01:24.890Seriously, if wisdom had fragrance, she'd be the luxury perfume you wish you could afford.
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00:01:36.022Welcome tab thank you, skylar, I'm excited to be here and so next up we have the fun and eloquent brianna woo, a woman of many talents.
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00:01:41.153She can win a debate and plan a mario kart strategy all in one.
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00:01:42.825How's it going?
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00:01:52.941brie know, the most embarrassing thing that ever happened to me is my niece completely destroyed me at Christmas last year at Mario Kart and I'm just like bitch.
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00:01:58.248I have been playing this game since 1994 and you're coming in here and beating me.
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00:01:59.783How dare you A?
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00:02:00.825Thank you very much.
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00:02:01.867I appreciate that, skye.
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00:02:05.417Ouch A wound to the pride, I'm sorry, Skye.
00:02:05.417 -->
00:02:06.439Ouch A wound to the pride, I'm sorry.
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00:02:14.093All right and last but definitely not least, the spicy original homegirl herself, Callie Cadigan.
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00:02:21.174Known for bringing the drama and well spilling the tea, she keeps us on our toes and ready for the next plot twist.
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00:02:22.894Kelly, are you ready to stir the?
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00:02:23.400pot today.
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00:02:25.801Oh my God, always I'm so excited.
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00:02:26.604Great.
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00:02:33.423So, kicking off today's episode, we have our very first guest on the show, the iconic Plastic Martyr.
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00:02:39.043You might know her from her viral videos where she shares her life and throws in some spicy commentary.
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00:02:50.209But with the election on the horizon, today we're going to be talking politics, plastic's unapologetic advocacy and why she feels so passionately about these issues.
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00:03:05.132Plastic welcome to doll cast thank you for having me amazing so tell us a little bit more about yourself and what you love to share on your socials well I am in the entertainment industry.
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00:03:11.108I began as a fashion model when I was like 14 and then slowly moved into reality TV.
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00:03:27.723I also do music and through that journey I also had to navigate that as an openly trans woman and that was really interesting because you would think Hollywood was this open-minded place but it was very judgmental against trans people, trans women specifically.
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00:03:37.271I was fired left and right from runway shows and music videos, find out I was trans and it was just really interesting to navigate both things.
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00:03:46.605The entertainment industry is really really difficult to manage for anybody and, on top of that, being a marginalized person, it's really interesting.
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00:04:19.793So I kind of started doing more content talking about that and then, around 2016, when trans rights was starting to be more villainized and politicized by the far right, I began to push back on that and start to give my opinion on, as an actual trans person, how transitioning young, and start to give my opinion on, you know, as an actual trans person, how transitioning young and being seen by my family saved my life rather than hurting you know, they invited me onto two separate uh, major reality shows in the gamergate era and I said no to them.
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00:04:26.613Like, I looked at it and I'm like I know they're going to set me up to be the villain and I don't know.
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00:04:29.610So I'm not surprised that happened to you.
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00:04:30.742I was watching them.
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00:04:35.490After they finally came out, I was like, oh my God, I'm so glad I said no to both of these.
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00:04:37.425So I wanted to talk.
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00:04:43.002The whole reason I wanted to bring you on the show today is you know, there's an election and I love your Kamala content.
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00:04:44.244You is there's an election and I love your Kamala content.
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00:04:45.545You're always out there.
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00:04:51.555You're cheerleading for my girl, kamala Harris, who I've worked with a ton in the last four years.
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00:05:02.492Her office on women's initiatives really impressive stuff and I criticized her quite a bit in the 2020 primary.
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00:05:04.769She was absolutely not my candidate.
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00:05:10.646I was 100% in on Elizabeth Warren, so she had a lot of like work to do to impress me.
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00:05:11.769Her office did.
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00:05:12.430It's not like.
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00:05:14.783This is the first politician I've ever worked with.
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00:05:23.468I walked away so impressed with how professional and thoughtful and, most of all, strategic that they were.
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00:05:33.125So, um, I thought like what I wanted to do today was, uh, I know there's a little bit of a different opinion here at the, the dollar cast who we're all voting for.
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00:05:39.185I was thinking we would kind of all just talk as a group, you know, figuring out uh kind of what's at stake with me.
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00:05:43.846I want to be the first oh boy.
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00:05:49.204Yeah, it's like I want to hear why, because I mean I don't want to call you out, but I know you're leaning towards trump.
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00:05:53.740So over kamala, if you don't mind me asking oh gosh, wait, you know you're.
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00:06:05.935You're putting me on the spot first it is hard to go first, especially if you've got like the dissenting opinion yeah, oh, but okay, I appreciate those assurances.
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00:06:11.072I feel like I'm about to be excommunicated from this group, I really know, okay.
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00:06:17.319So I mean, well, for me it's like a lot of it is from like I feel like trans rights.
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00:06:32.271I liked how I liked the movement back in like the mid 20 teens, like back when it was first fresh and it was like inspirational and it was really like it seemed like the direction progressivism was going and it seemed like the right way.
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00:06:59.742But I think things came to a front for me when I saw like the title nine legislation coming through with like Biden and Harris going for that and trying to codify gender identity into law and I'm like, okay, I see the value in like protecting vulnerable people like ourselves, but there's going to be bad actors and like people that abuse that and it like strips away the ability to actually like treat them in the way that they should be treated.
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00:07:17.742I mean there's like lots of cases of this kind of thing like internationally and I'm just like kind of scared for what that could do long term for trans rights if, like the impression of who, of what trans means in the public eye, goes like downhill because of all these you know bad actors like predators and etc.
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00:07:22.266That are like coming into the trans community because there's benefits legally I, legally, I don't know.
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00:07:24.911Okay.
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00:07:46.072So I'm going to go I mean, I definitely have so many thoughts on that right Because I think this election is really kind of a referendum on progressivism and a certain kind of identity progressivism which is very focused on these marginalized groups and creating protections for them.
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00:08:01.483And besides you, skylar, I'm probably like the most, um, maybe like Trump leaning or like right person on here and my, like biggest concern with Trump is just like the election stuff and the sort of instability that causes.
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00:08:12.906But I empathize a lot with your feelings of kind of anxiety around the progressive push for defending trans rights.
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00:08:20.916It's not how I would do it like I think that we need an approach which defends our rights on the basis of freedom and free expression.
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00:08:37.091I think that is so much more robust and I I really do see how, like when we've kind of barged into spaces and insisted that people, you know, view us a certain way, sometimes it's backfired and we've seen this big push where people are really frustrated.
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00:08:45.731So I relate, I empathize, so I just want to jump in and say like, look, I totally understand where both of you are coming from.
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00:08:48.054I really do so.
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00:08:57.202As someone who regularly writes checks to the Democratic Party, raises money professionally for the Democratic Party, works with the Democratic Party on a host of elections.
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00:09:02.961I cannot stress to you just how little they understand or care about us.
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00:09:06.750They're completely tuned out to the average democrat.
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00:09:13.201Like I swear to god, before I write them a check, I will get the candidate on the phone and I will say this is something I always do.
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00:09:16.331I go what is in your mind the most important?
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00:09:31.269Um, you know, uh, public policy for trans people, and they will always, always give me something completely stupid, like non-binary driver's licenses, or you know, it's not healthcare funding, it's like something that's very superficial.
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00:09:46.547Like I had a major candidate I'm not going to tell you their name, but this is as high up as it gets in the government and they told me that, like they helped change a form in their state to make it so you didn't have to declare your gender on it, and it's like dude, I care funding.
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00:09:48.572So I hear what you're saying.
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00:10:14.186I really think you should attribute all of this in the democratic party, not to them subscribing to this maximalist opinion on things like title nine, which I also share your um reservations about, and telling you, after the republicans have made them pay such a high price for standing with the trans community this time around, it is not going to be the same if Kamala comes into office.
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00:10:21.107So, you know, in my view, I think it's okay to look at the bigger things, like is democracy going to be okay?
00:10:21.107 -->
00:10:22.932What is the economy going to be like?
00:10:22.932 -->
00:10:24.447What is our national security going to be like?
00:10:24.447 -->
00:10:25.447You know, as someone to be like, what is our national security going to be like?
00:10:25.447 -->
00:10:36.269As someone who's taken a very public stand with Israel, it gives me a lot of pause that Rex Tillerson quit as Secretary of State midway through.
00:10:36.269 -->
00:10:39.302I didn't love the guy, but he was eminently qualified.
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00:10:56.956So many of Trump's generals have quit halfway through and we are seriously looking at a hot war with Taiwan, um, you know, in the next five years over Taiwan, rather so, you know, I I think if you really look at this, uh, from 30,000 feet up, it it just I I understand where you're coming from.
00:10:56.956 -->
00:11:01.514It's just not, um, I I don't think it's going to be as big an issue in my opinion.
00:11:01.514 -->
00:11:02.740Can I ask you a question?
00:11:03.364 -->
00:11:14.743sure, of course, if you're seriously looking at a hot war with taiwan and you know pretty soon here is there any desire to move manufacturing at home?
00:11:14.743 -->
00:11:20.280Right now, a ton of that is offshored, especially into places where china has access.
00:11:20.280 -->
00:11:32.881In china, it seems like you know, one way to interpret Trump's protectionism is really as an anticipation of geopolitical conflict and a desire to make sure that we have domestic manufacturing.
00:11:33.182 -->
00:11:34.245Yeah, 100%.
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00:11:44.746I'm very aligned with you on that, which is why I was so upset that Mike Johnson literally yesterday as we're recording this, the Republican Speaker in the House said he was going to repeal the CHIPS Act.
00:11:44.746 -->
00:12:01.845And if we can get into the CHIPS Act and you know tooling and all of that, I understand it's not a perfect legislation, but this was trying to get something that's very much international security interest back here at home because you know we can't like have a military if we can't have CHIPS to operate it.
00:12:01.845 -->
00:12:09.190So I really share that and a lot of Trump's domestic agenda is someone that actually ran for Congress here in Massachusetts.
00:12:09.190 -->
00:12:15.687I've talked to these union guys that want jobs back here at home, so I'm sympathetic to that.
00:12:15.687 -->
00:12:18.509I think the question is not the policy I have a difference with.
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00:12:24.149It's more is Trump the vehicle to get us there, and I just don't have faith in that credibility.
00:12:26.701 -->
00:12:28.205Well, I'd love to talk more about that too.
00:12:28.205 -->
00:12:29.206The personality like plastic.
00:12:29.246 -->
00:12:30.408What do you think about it?
00:12:30.548 -->
00:12:38.948let's pivot yeah, well, um, as a Jew and a trans woman, um, I think Trump is extremely dangerous.
00:12:38.948 -->
00:12:55.682I see he I mean he has just come out, he is not hiding it, he is full front and center of what he wants to do, how he wants to destroy this democracy, how he wants to make this a white, christian, nationalist country and I'm sorry anybody who is okay with that or supports that.
00:12:55.682 -->
00:12:57.568In my eyes, you're batshit crazy.
00:12:59.160 -->
00:13:02.668Literally, we have hey, except Scott, except Scott.
00:13:03.120 -->
00:13:03.621History.
00:13:03.621 -->
00:13:05.087Read the history books.
00:13:05.087 -->
00:13:12.067If you sit by and allow this to happen again, you are part of this problem, and he is not hiding it.
00:13:12.067 -->
00:13:22.870So, as for trans rights, I had this issue with a bunch of these progressive trans women who are like oh, kamala isn't doing enough or isn't saying enough and it's like well, she shouldn't be saying this right now, before the election.
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00:13:31.366Democrats are extremely transphobic too, and we are so far down on the list, and I would want us to be at the top of the list.
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00:13:35.409Trans rights should not be the number one thing that America is talking about right now.
00:13:35.409 -->
00:13:37.292I think we deserve human rights.
00:13:37.292 -->
00:13:54.407I think we need to put checks and balances into place because, like some of you said, there are people who are abusing the power of this, but I don't think that trans women should not be considered women and I don't think that we should invalidate people's identity and invalidate people's personalities simply because you don't agree with it.
00:13:54.679 -->
00:14:06.693I think there needs to be checks and balances, but I think segregating trans people from cisgender people is extremely wrong and it's gonna lead us down a road where it opens it up for more bigotry and more segregation, and we are just the tipping point of that.
00:14:06.693 -->
00:14:14.652So I think that it's really, really important to bite the bullet and, whether you like Kamala or not, at least in four years there will be another election.
00:14:14.652 -->
00:14:18.630Trump is literally saying many times that day one he will be a dictator.
00:14:18.630 -->
00:14:23.005So if you want to live under a dictatorship which is really actually under Putin.
00:14:23.005 -->
00:14:27.993That's on you, but you know you lie in it and you're going to be lying in it for a while.
00:14:28.173 -->
00:14:29.875Kelly, how do you feel about this?
00:14:29.875 -->
00:14:38.599I was really I mean, I was pleased, but you came out really strongly for Kamala as well when she was kind of the nominee.
00:14:38.619 -->
00:14:41.229Yeah, and I agree with absolutely everything that Plastic just said.
00:14:41.229 -->
00:14:54.503Back to Skye's point where she was focusing on, you know, the people that are abusing the trans community to do predatory things, such as, like all the stories we've seen of people going to female prisons that are identifying as trans and then we have all these cases of assault.
00:14:54.503 -->
00:15:01.288I do think we need to have stricter checks and balances in place and I don't blame her for how she phrased that in that interview.
00:15:01.288 -->
00:15:10.765But, like Plastic was saying, I really think we need checks and balances and I know this is really controversial in the trans community.
00:15:10.765 -->
00:15:20.923But I think a huge part of that is transmedicalism and saying that HRT is a requirement for an extended period of time at least before you can have access to female spaces, such as female prisons, and I think that would prevent a lot of these assaults that are taking place.
00:15:21.384 -->
00:15:23.245Yeah, I think that's really fair.
00:15:23.245 -->
00:15:24.006Yeah, I think it's really fair.
00:15:24.006 -->
00:15:25.269Yeah, I think it's really interesting.
00:15:25.269 -->
00:15:40.092We've got five trans women here today and all of us if I'm understanding everyone right, like all five of us agree that this maximalist view on trans issues, this isn't what we want from the Democratic Party.
00:15:40.092 -->
00:15:41.278Does that sum up how all of us are feeling today?
00:15:41.278 -->
00:15:41.600Yeah, definitely.
00:15:41.600 -->
00:15:42.802Yeah.
00:15:42.802 -->
00:15:43.745What about you, skye?
00:15:43.764 -->
00:15:56.575How do you kind of yeah, I mean yeah, I just think, like as much as I would like to believe that we could make policy on gender identity, when I look at the real world examples, I just don't see it being tenable.
00:15:56.575 -->
00:16:00.105It's like, I mean, maybe that's distortion from the media.
00:16:00.105 -->
00:16:13.009You know, I think any case where there's a bad acting trans woman or, in some cases, like better described crossdresser acting out that's getting called trans and then like causing problems, I mean you have the Sal Grover case thing that's happening in Australia.
00:16:13.009 -->
00:16:15.912It's just awful, but it's it's not the U?
00:16:15.912 -->
00:16:20.159S, but like the point is, is that like that kind of thing is just one step away.
00:16:20.421 -->
00:16:27.062If we're like pushing gender identity and law and it's like mean I don't know what the right approach is.
00:16:27.062 -->
00:16:58.224I don't have the magic ingredient, but you can't enforce like, like passing, in terms of like there's trans women that are a lot like women and then there are some that just well, for better words aren't necessarily and it's like you have, I feel like it's part of like the right vision is to understand that there's people that aren't going to accept that and I'm worried that if we continue the progressive push that like honestly, biden Kamala, like I, I'll be honest, I voted Biden last election and it's only because I'm afraid of the events that have sort of taken place.
00:16:58.224 -->
00:17:07.528Like I mean you have the Leah Thomas thing at the Olympics and it's like I don't see anything like harming trans rights no offense to him, no offense to her than that.
00:17:07.528 -->
00:17:18.727And like I mean seriously, because now you have riley gaines doing this whole thing and it's like a whole career off of like sports stuff now that's, you know, it's just like how can we stop that?
00:17:18.987 -->
00:17:19.188what?
00:17:19.188 -->
00:17:29.751What I find really frustrating is you know I'm a little older than y'all are in In the trans movement like how we got all these rights was going very slowly, piece by piece and getting buy-in from the wider public.
00:17:29.751 -->
00:17:37.184Like something I tweeted out last week was a copy of my Virginia birth certificate, which has been changed after I got GRS to female right.
00:17:37.184 -->
00:17:39.932That is an accommodation that was put into law.
00:17:39.932 -->
00:17:40.819It took time.
00:17:40.819 -->
00:17:42.622There was buy-in from the public.
00:17:43.163 -->
00:17:52.991What I think has happened in the last five years is a lot of the trans activists have convinced Democratic lawmakers of this maximalist vision of trans liberation.
00:17:52.991 -->
00:17:54.753That essentially comes to.
00:17:54.753 -->
00:17:58.436It's a bunch of policy positions that turn the public against us.
00:17:58.436 -->
00:18:01.390I think prisons are a really really good example.
00:18:01.390 -->
00:18:05.641I don't think prisons should be gender affirming really really good example.
00:18:05.641 -->
00:18:06.964You know, I don't think prison should be gender affirming.
00:18:06.984 -->
00:18:14.530I also don't think someone like you know my friend, you know Chelsea Manning, who was basically kept in prison and tortured without HRT and without help for that gender dysphoria.
00:18:14.530 -->
00:18:16.221That's also not the right policy.
00:18:16.221 -->
00:18:24.469So I don't know if we need to like create a separate you know prison for trans people in the United States or what, but you know this maximalist idea.
00:18:24.469 -->
00:18:33.671I think it's not serving us because it just hands the Republicans all the tools they need to like create millions of dollars of ads going after us.
00:18:33.671 -->
00:18:34.402So, plastic.
00:18:34.402 -->
00:18:41.146When you said you know you think they're talking about trans stuff way too much, I really strongly agree with you.
00:18:41.146 -->
00:18:48.836I want trans people to be a lot less visible and I want us just to be a lot less visible and I was just to be able to go about our lives like kind of quietly in the background.
00:18:49.115 -->
00:18:51.018Yeah, like when I transitioned.
00:18:51.018 -->
00:18:54.548I mean, I began my transition at five years old and, wow, you're so lucky.
00:18:54.567 -->
00:18:58.442I was very lucky and I definitely want to hear about that as well.
00:18:58.501 -->
00:19:12.423Yeah, so I I'm 35 now, so I, I guess 30 years ago, and my mom is a liberal Jew from New York, she's got two masters in psychology and she yeah, she knew what was happening.
00:19:12.423 -->
00:19:14.691This wasn't on me, this wasn't like.
00:19:14.691 -->
00:19:19.589That's why, like the whole narrative of, oh, like you're teaching kids and nobody's I didn't even know what that was.
00:19:19.589 -->
00:19:21.867I didn't know the word transgender until I was 16.
00:19:21.867 -->
00:19:28.160All I knew was I was a girl and I had to do whatever I had to do to make myself, not want to kill myself.
00:19:28.160 -->
00:19:33.246Because I remember the first time I wanted to kill myself I was six years old, and it wasn't because I was depressed.
00:19:33.246 -->
00:19:38.160I learned about reincarnation in school and I was like, oh my God, that's it, that's how.
00:19:38.200 -->
00:19:39.442I'm going to get in the right body.
00:19:39.442 -->
00:19:41.644I remember that I did the same thing.
00:19:41.644 -->
00:19:49.796I tried to kill myself Because I was like I'm going to come back in the right body this time, and thank God I didn't successfully do it.
00:19:49.796 -->
00:19:54.803It's way harder to drown yourself at six years old than you think, but anyway.
00:19:54.803 -->
00:20:04.236So my mom luckily saw me and knew that it was at that point called gender dysphoria or whatever the hell it was called, and she allowed me to socially transition.
00:20:05.200 -->
00:20:08.008And then, when I was in my late teens, I began my hormone replacement therapy journey.
00:20:08.107 -->
00:20:15.449And then, in my 20s is when I got my surgery and all of that, just it's what kept me alive.
00:20:15.930 -->
00:20:25.448And my mom fought for me every single day, because when I was doing this years ago, there was nobody else out there, there was no internet for us to get information.
00:20:25.888 -->
00:20:53.487So when, um, you know, I would go into the bathrooms the girls bathrooms and then the parents would complain and then the school would tell me I can't go in the girls bathroom, my mom was there fighting for me and she was like either you're gonna let my kid use the correct battle lines with her gender or I'm gonna have a news crew here tomorrow and your choice, and the transphobia that I experienced now is worse than anything I've ever experienced in the years before.
00:20:53.487 -->
00:21:12.866I mean, you think it was the opposite because there's so much more information now, but I guess ignorance is bliss and I would love to go back to a time when people just didn't give a shit or were more afraid of me than they wanted to hurt me, because now they want to hurt me rather than be afraid of me totally, and I feel like that's something that we can all relate to on some level.
00:21:13.208 -->
00:21:17.344I'm lucky in that, like my parents also fought for me in a lot of ways.
00:21:17.344 -->
00:21:39.471Like I remember, you know, one of my extended family members like misgendered me and my father was like like, was like so annoyed, and he was like, yeah, she just doesn't get it, and he was like ranting um and like I had not asked him to do that, but he just he so clearly loved me, uh, so deeply and understood my struggle.
00:21:39.531 -->
00:21:55.315Yeah, so touching and I feel like what I'm hearing from like everyone, even though people are maybe disagreeing, is that we're all united about wanting a better world for people like us and I.
00:21:56.663 -->
00:22:17.963I'm so frustrated sometimes when, you know, I look out into the internet space and I see that people who are, you know, maybe a little bit like transcritical or not progressive, I see them like selling out to conservatives and to gender critical people, because it's so easy to do that, it's so easy to just be like you know, I have a slightly different opinion.
00:22:17.963 -->
00:22:20.056These people will give me attention without opinion.
00:22:20.056 -->
00:22:43.611I'm just going to get like you know, I'm just going to take advantage of that, but at the end of the day, I'm just going to get like you know, I'm just going to take advantage of that, but at the end of the day, like you and I, skylar and you, plastic, like, we all just want the best for us and we all have a united target on our back is the thing so like difference of opinion on political people or not, we still have that same target on our back it's so important.
00:22:43.631 -->
00:22:50.429Yeah, yeah, no, um, I wanted to ask have y'all seen, um, that that trans ad that is playing?
00:22:50.429 -->
00:22:54.423I live in massachusetts and it is on the air every four seconds.
00:22:54.423 -->
00:23:08.941I was, um, walking on the bathroom at the movie theater the other day and this ad comes on the air and it's got like a trans woman with a very deep voice and then it shows, you know, rachel levine, and then it shows a bunch a very deep voice and then it shows you know Rachel Levine, and then it shows a bunch of drag queens, you know.
00:23:08.941 -->
00:23:14.473Then it goes into Kamala Harris wants gender affirming surgery for prisoners.
00:23:14.473 -->
00:23:26.361And then, you know, it ends with the tagline like Trump is for us, kamala is for they, them, and you know, it's not that.
00:23:26.381 -->
00:23:30.249I think all of us just said like we want a more sophisticated conversation about how trans people are treated in prison.
00:23:30.249 -->
00:23:39.340I certainly do not want, you know, cis women in danger, because the prison system is putting, you know, rapists in with, uh, you know, cis women.
00:23:39.340 -->
00:23:41.144That that's cruel and crazy.
00:23:41.144 -->
00:23:44.288We all condemn unequivocally.
00:23:44.288 -->
00:23:47.535But at the same time, that's not what this ad is.
00:23:47.535 -->
00:24:07.601It's using these caricatures of trans women as drag queens and then using us to scare the public and then linking like a bunch of ideas together, like drag queens, trans women, you know non binary people into the soup to basically make people hate us, and that's a.
00:24:07.601 -->
00:24:12.593It's a really dispiriting thing to see an election about like dehumanizing you.
00:24:12.593 -->
00:24:14.364Do y'all feel the same way?
00:24:14.364 -->
00:24:15.166Totally.
00:24:15.446 -->
00:24:19.700Yeah, it's just it's taking that exaggerated bad examples.
00:24:19.700 -->
00:24:23.207I mean this started with, like, the drag queen story hour.
00:24:23.207 -->
00:24:36.669That's what's fuming that whole ad is like with the drag queen part, and it's like drag queens have been around forever, but it wasn't until the schools and the drag queen story hour time that this whole thing started to become an issue.
00:24:36.669 -->
00:24:51.788Like you have a whole publication like now is it called Redux that goes and just publishes like anti-trans content all the time and like rightfully, I mean I'll, I'll be honest like they're taking examples, real world examples, and just reporting on them.
00:24:51.788 -->
00:24:56.990So the problem is with the legal system, the framework that's allowing these.
00:24:57.432 -->
00:25:19.869Again, you know, I don't want to say they're not genuine trans women, but there's clearly problems going on with these people and it's like they're getting wrapped up, though, and they're basically dragging the whole thing down and it's like, how can we move forward in a way that protects the image of, like, the trans community and keeps those rights and keeps the public image like going up, like free?
00:25:19.869 -->
00:25:31.141I always think back to how you you always talk, because you transitioned so long ago, how, like you saw the evolution in rights like over time, and like I go back to that I'm like we take it for granted.
00:25:31.141 -->
00:25:49.307Like I take it for granted, I had everything paid for through search, through insurance, because of well, because of people like you that came before and spoke to the efficacy of this process and, like before, now we're starting to see pushback and now we see ads literally political ads attacking us.
00:25:50.903 -->
00:25:53.531Like I don't know it's exhausting.
00:25:53.531 -->
00:25:54.625It really hurts me.
00:25:54.625 -->
00:25:55.924I mean, kelly, how do you feel?
00:25:55.944 -->
00:25:56.366about it.
00:25:56.366 -->
00:25:59.488I mean, it's always been tough.
00:25:59.488 -->
00:26:04.686I feel like the right has just been getting more and more against us as this election has been getting closer.
00:26:04.686 -->
00:26:10.307It just feels like I didn't think it could get worse, and from 2018 and now it just feels like we're here and it's even worse than it was.
00:26:10.307 -->
00:26:20.064I remember in like 2016, it felt like things were kind of taking a turn um, especially when caitlin jenner came out, like I thought like society was going to be with us and I don't know.
00:26:20.064 -->
00:26:28.125It seems like ever since trump got into office, uh, it's gotten worse and worse, and now I don't know if we're getting more accepted by society anymore.
00:26:28.125 -->
00:26:33.510I think there's more people against us than ever before, especially because we've been so exposed by the trans visibility movement.
00:26:34.740 -->
00:26:36.203I think it's a real problem.
00:26:36.203 -->
00:26:52.695I hope this is an unpopular opinion, but I think that trans people because we don't have children, I think we are really underestimating the degree to which it's upsetting parents like this explosion of very young children that are non-binary.
00:26:52.695 -->
00:26:54.659I've got a really good friend of mine.
00:26:54.659 -->
00:27:04.996He was telling me with the class they were having a coming out day and half the class was raising their hand not saying, hi, I'm gay or lesbian, but I'm non-binary.
00:27:04.996 -->
00:27:08.988And it's not that I'm saying I don't think that they're going through something real there.
00:27:08.988 -->
00:27:11.541I'm saying that just pragmatically.
00:27:11.682 -->
00:27:14.909If you've got armies, these kids coming out in schools.
00:27:14.909 -->
00:27:32.366It is scaring the parents and it's really easy for me to understand how some of these things have been done in a way that I don't think is skillful and it's just giving the Republicans ammunition to go after us.
00:27:32.366 -->
00:27:38.627So you know, when I'm saying stuff on Twitter kind of urging us to back away from this progressive fringe, it's not because I don't love trans people or I don't see the humanity there.
00:27:38.627 -->
00:27:48.996It's because I don't think these tactics are going to get us the things that we want, and all of us on this call today I think we all 10 out of 10 want dignity for trans people is, isn't that?
00:27:49.036 -->
00:28:18.252right absolutely, and I think you're on something really important, which is this sort of distinction between like a lifestyle minority or like a medical minority and like I believe very strongly that if you want to wear like women's clothing and you just want to like cross dress, like, you should be able to do that and you should be able to wear your drag and you should be able to like identify as non-binary and whatever that means to you.
00:28:18.252 -->
00:28:24.076I think it's like so fundamental to your right as an american that you'd be able to express that.
00:28:24.076 -->
00:28:50.271At the same time, I think that there's like a sort of conflation here where, like maybe these children in these classes who are all raising their hands and saying that they're non-binary they probably are like expressing a real sentiment which is like the the desire for gender non-conformity or fluidity, and it's like it's very you know, it's okay if children are able to explore that.
00:28:50.271 -->
00:29:16.732I think the problem we've sent like mixed messages, and one of those messages is that it's like totally that we need to transition because there's medical need and so, like plastic when you're talking about like I would kill myself if I wasn't able to transition that is an intense need which goes so far beyond just, you know, like I like the color green, right I'm wearing a green dress.
00:29:16.732 -->
00:29:19.346That's not a strong need right.
00:29:19.405 -->
00:29:24.567At the end of the day, I don't think that I have like a medical like right to wear the color green.
00:29:24.567 -->
00:29:27.634I think I have a personal freedom of expression right to do that.
00:29:27.634 -->
00:29:41.230And I think that when we make arguments for, like trans people getting surgeries in prison, for example, that's a medical need argument, right and we can defend trans rights on that.
00:29:41.230 -->
00:30:08.804But if we're going to do that, then we need to make a distinction for the these kids that are raising their hand, otherwise people are going to see them and be they're thinking that like, oh, progressives want to like give these kids surgery and we just have to be able to show that like both things are fine, but they are different things that we're talking about here I do feel like they have completely blown out of proportion the whole, like kids are being confused by this thing.
00:30:09.164 -->
00:30:22.301I think that that is a tool that the republicans have used it's exaggerated for sure, when I was a kid, one of the the most euphoric feelings remember was in high school.
00:30:22.301 -->
00:30:28.382I had this one teacher who said to me day one, what are your pronouns?
00:30:28.382 -->
00:30:31.615And I was looking at him, like I'm like, what the fuck are you talking about?
00:30:31.615 -->
00:30:36.127Like, because the school was just they, you know, misgendered me in the yearbook.
00:30:36.127 -->
00:30:39.021They, you know, were refused to call me she, her.
00:30:39.021 -->
00:30:39.904They were just horrible.
00:30:39.904 -->
00:30:44.240And this one teacher was like, what do you want to be called?
00:30:44.240 -->
00:30:45.624And I said she, her.
00:30:45.624 -->
00:30:47.730And I didn't even know that was an option in the school.
00:30:47.730 -->
00:30:53.527And he addressed the entire class and explained to them what transgender meant and that I am to be called she, her.
00:30:53.527 -->
00:30:57.288And you know how many kids in that class transitioned, other than me, zero.
00:30:57.367 -->
00:30:58.150Zero yeah.
00:30:58.391 -->
00:30:59.252None of them.
00:30:59.252 -->
00:31:04.928Well, no, I was just saying that probably I'm assuming that maybe made you feel like male caster that make you feel uncomfortable at all.
00:31:04.988 -->
00:31:12.060No, it made me feel so seen and it made me feel safe because I was like you know, this teacher has my back now and now.
00:31:12.060 -->
00:31:25.872If any other kids in class bullied me or were like you're a boy, you're a boy like I would go to him and he would address it and I was like I just felt so safe in his class, whereas the other classes I was, it was bullying me was excused.
00:31:25.872 -->
00:31:32.009So I mean, I even had a substitute teachers that would write notes.
00:31:32.009 -->
00:31:41.488When they would have substitute teachers on the notes they would say that me they would use, my name was to be called by this name, my legal name, and do not call me she, her.
00:31:41.488 -->
00:31:49.614So it was just like that class I didn't feel safe in, versus this class where this teacher was like I see you, who do you want to be?
00:31:49.614 -->
00:31:51.207And it was like amazing.
00:31:51.599 -->
00:31:59.932Well, that's so much like what you're talking about with your mother too the power of having someone step in and have your back.
00:31:59.932 -->
00:32:12.522And it doesn't even need to be like an institutional thing like you know where, like the school itself is having like a rule in place, but just having one person to like have your back on that, that's so valuable.
00:32:12.522 -->
00:32:21.249And you know I think we've talked about this so many times on this show but kind of like that, there's cultural differences between conservatives and liberals.
00:32:21.249 -->
00:32:41.914One of those cultural differences you know, I grew up in like a rural town, like lots of conservatives one of the cultural elements of that is the idea that you sort of you stand up for yourself, or like you get other people to stand up for you, but you don't rely on, like the government or like the policy to protect you and that kind of works.
00:32:42.277 -->
00:32:48.152When you're in this small town and you have these personal relationships and like you can really connect with people.
00:32:48.152 -->
00:32:56.634But it's way harder to do when you're navigating these sort of impersonal environments where, like you might not have those connections.
00:32:56.634 -->
00:33:08.705And so I think that, like liberals and progressives, they're way more likely to advocate for like an actual policy, something in Title IX or you know, in somewhere else in the law that says no, you can't discriminate.
00:33:08.705 -->
00:33:14.288And so I think that there's just we're like butting heads culturally where conservatives are like, why do you need to do that?
00:33:14.288 -->
00:33:18.769Like, just, you know, speak to people, and it's different approaches that work.
00:33:18.769 -->
00:33:21.059You know, more or less in different areas.
00:33:21.320 -->
00:33:24.089I mean, I hear you, you know, Taff, I in different areas, I hear you, taff.
00:33:24.089 -->
00:33:32.846I remember, though, we had one black girl that came in and enrolled in my Mississippi private school when I was young, and I'll never forget the day she got stabbed in the eye with a pencil.
00:33:32.846 -->
00:33:34.247Holy fuck.
00:33:34.247 -->
00:33:39.106She left school after that and I never saw her again.
00:33:39.106 -->
00:33:45.926I think that regulation can have its place when I really differ from this.
00:33:46.701 -->
00:33:47.785People in the eye with pencils.
00:33:47.865 -->
00:33:51.028Yeah, I totally agree, there's a bare minimum regulation.
00:33:52.001 -->
00:33:55.240It was an accident, but we don't know if it was racially motivated or what.
00:33:55.240 -->
00:34:08.541My point is I think that there's this tendency in progressive circles to really inflame and just like, poke the conservatives as hard as you can and push it.
00:34:08.541 -->
00:34:11.427It's where this drag queen story hour comes from.
00:34:11.427 -->
00:34:16.786I think the pretext with this is oh, we're going to educate children about gender diversity.
00:34:16.786 -->
00:34:23.369I think the subtext of it really is f you conservatives, look at these drag queens out here.
00:34:23.369 -->
00:34:24.992We're here, we're proud, we're queer.
00:34:24.992 -->
00:34:29.128It's just kind of a like staking a cultural stake in the ground.
00:34:29.128 -->
00:34:31.300Yeah, I don't have a problem with that.
00:34:31.300 -->
00:34:37.083I just it's like there's a cost to this because they're going to retaliate and they're going to backfire.
00:34:37.907 -->
00:34:46.420Um, you know and the last thing I want to say, plastic and yeah, this is respectfully I I don't agree with you that, like no kids are going to transition.
00:34:46.420 -->
00:34:49.666It's a real public policy problem nowadays.
00:34:49.666 -->
00:35:01.228Um, the number of girls that are detransitioning, you know they're, they're getting on this and we actually don't have full numbers because these clinics will not release their total data to the public.
00:35:01.228 -->
00:35:09.726I think, directionally, if you look at these stories, for whatever reason, female to males, they are detransitioning at rates that are different than us.
00:35:09.726 -->
00:35:10.862We do this.
00:35:10.862 -->
00:35:12.442We tend to not have regrets.
00:35:12.442 -->
00:35:32.699We are relatively low at detransitioners, but this is a public policy problem and I think mixing non-binary and FTMs and MTFs into this gender soup, I think it's really not serving us from a public policy perspective I think again, checks and balances, but completely villainizing trans kids.
00:35:33.000 -->
00:35:35.125And oh, 100 allowed again.
00:35:35.125 -->
00:35:39.534That's gonna lead to more suicides for 100 because there are trans kids.
00:35:39.534 -->
00:35:55.583So just because the detransition rate is increased in trans men and trans boys, um, that doesn't mean that the I hate using the term real trans, but the real trans, yeah, because if these rules were in place when I was a kid, I would not be here today.
00:35:55.583 -->
00:36:03.266So I have stricter rules, but not rules that erase trans I'm 100 with you.
00:36:03.286 -->
00:36:05.251Yeah, yeah, go ahead, sky.
00:36:05.492 -->
00:36:05.952Okay, yeah.
00:36:06.300 -->
00:36:07.226Sorry, I'll just jump in.
00:36:07.360 -->
00:37:06.804I like I so agree with what you're saying there, plastic, like, I think the like unifying force here is that we recognize that males and females respond to different things, and it's like one of the things I've seen is that, like females can, they can tend to have more of like a social connection to how they make their decisions and their identities, and this can feed into some of the like problems of like trying to escape, like sexualization when they're going through puberty or something, and then they, they take on this trans identity, go a little too far and then they detransition and it's like that's the issue is like we got to start treating cases individually, like how they are, and recognize, like you said, there needs to be a pipeline or some kind of gateway or pathway really for you for trans, for for trans kids, for youth that are in this space, know themselves and are questioning their gender and saying like I think, I think this might be me like can I get some help and there should be a way for them to proceed in a supportive environment.
00:37:07.525 -->
00:37:08.728Um, and that's what.
00:37:08.728 -->
00:37:18.682Like, I think what we're all coming towards is like a solution for better medical care and that's what we're really like trying to look for in this, and it's just a matter of figuring out.
00:37:18.682 -->
00:37:20.427What does that exactly look like?
00:37:21.068 -->
00:37:24.114yeah, and listen, I mean, even with among cis children.
00:37:24.114 -->
00:37:27.320Gender role-playing when you're a child is normal.
00:37:27.320 -->
00:37:31.092Oh, 100% yes, people forget that there are.
00:37:31.092 -->
00:37:36.889So I know so many of my cisgender friends who were role-playing with gender when they were kids and they are completely like.
00:37:36.889 -->
00:38:03.713There was one little girl that was on my block who I was sure was going to either grow up to be trans or a lesbian and she is married with children now and it was like she's exploring, you know yeah, and I think again making children feel like something is wrong with them, for questioning their gender is is wrong, and I think when, again, when I was a kid and I was trans, the checks and balances that were in place worked for me.
00:38:03.813 -->
00:38:07.391I went to the doctor, I talked to therapists, I spoke to my mom.
00:38:07.391 -->
00:38:17.250I think it's also important that we start to educate parents more, because I think parents are the ones who are punishing their children for this, and I think the parents need the education more than the kids need the education.
00:38:17.250 -->
00:38:27.139I forgot who it was that said that you think that a lot of the stuff that's being taught in school now, or like it's happening in schools, is pushback against the conservatives.
00:38:27.139 -->
00:38:32.851I do agree to some extent because, like, I feel like it's important to teach kids tolerance.
00:38:32.851 -->
00:38:41.413Some of the stuff is going a little over the top with some of these things about like a coming out day for like whatever, like middle schoolers Maybe a bit much.
00:38:44.483 -->
00:38:49.059Do you think that has anything to do with the amount of detransitioners we're seeing?
00:38:49.059 -->
00:39:07.192Just because, like I feel, like you know nowadays I because it's taught to them what being trans is, what being non-binary is, in the name of creating tolerance, do you think that's just maybe making some kids think they're trans and then they go through a transition and then go oh shit, this wasn't meant for me I think the the terms are not clear among people.
00:39:07.360 -->
00:39:11.621I think there's a lot of new terms coming in that are confusing people Like I don't know.
00:39:11.621 -->
00:39:20.661For instance, like when I was a kid, there was a period in my life in my childhood where I probably would have been considered non-binary, but I didn't have that term then.
00:39:20.661 -->
00:39:26.110So I said I would go around saying I was genderless because I didn't quite feel I was a boy.
00:39:26.110 -->
00:39:31.583I knew I wasn't a boy but I didn't quite feel comfortable claiming I was a girl in middle school.
00:39:31.583 -->
00:39:42.527But I think that being non-binary is this great little purgatory that a lot of trans people are in in the beginning, figuring out who they are, trying on different hats and figuring out am I a girl, am I a boy?
00:39:42.527 -->
00:39:43.692And that's normal.
00:39:43.692 -->
00:40:01.806I think, when we get into all of these new terminologies, that it is easy for kids to be like I'm trans when they're really not, and I think that's when either having psychiatrists or parents or people talking to their kids about this stuff, it'd be more important than trying to shame them and shut them down.
00:40:02.960 -->
00:40:05.409This is why I believe so strongly in transmedicalism.
00:40:05.409 -->
00:40:07.324I'm fully with you.
00:40:07.324 -->
00:40:09.166Kids need to be able to play with gender.
00:40:09.166 -->
00:40:12.550We just used to call these kids goth back in the 90s.
00:40:12.550 -->
00:40:16.527I think that's beautiful.
00:40:16.527 -->
00:40:17.309I love that.
00:40:17.309 -->
00:40:19.949I want every single kid to be able to do that.
00:40:20.300 -->
00:40:23.530I think the problem is when we're so quick to medicalize this.
00:40:23.530 -->
00:40:41.007Kelly, I've used the talking point that you gave last episode literally three times this week talking to elected officials, where you were talking about how, like when you think a lot of the people that start this, they just want to be able to talk about their feelings and that makes a lot of sense to me.
00:40:41.007 -->
00:40:43.467I'm sure there are a lot of kids that come in there like you.
00:40:43.467 -->
00:40:44.751Obviously, you transitioned.
00:40:44.751 -->
00:40:46.284You're gorgeous, you're very feminine.
00:40:46.284 -->
00:40:59.032We all went down the right path for us, but I think it's really important to you know just to not immediately medicalize and to give those kids you know enough time to figure out who they are, to make a decision for them.
00:40:59.032 -->
00:41:04.411And Taff, like you were saying, if someone wants to cross dress like more power to you, that's great.
00:41:09.760 -->
00:41:13.989If you don't have to get on these hormones, have your face and your genitals taken apart like I think that's a good decision for you.
00:41:13.989 -->
00:41:14.590Yeah, there's a place to?
00:41:14.590 -->
00:41:14.710Um.
00:41:14.710 -->
00:41:26.039Sorry, I was just gonna ask do you not think there's like any room for maybe quote-unquote I hate phrasing it this way but setting a kid on the right path before they get into like cross-dressing, you know?
00:41:26.039 -->
00:41:35.240Like maybe being like, oh, maybe you know boys don't wear dresses and maybe for a while trying to like say that they can't do that stuff and if it is consistent, then then maybe allowing them to do that.
00:41:35.240 -->
00:41:54.567I'm not saying like a full-on, tell your kid no for the rest of their life, but maybe just put, try to set them straight before they have to go down this trans path or cross-dressing path, because it's not like an easy life, you know I feel like again, that is the parent trying to, in a sense, make that kid in their vision.
00:41:54.626 -->
00:42:04.786If your kid is showing signs of wanting of gender diversity or whatever and you're trying to stop that, I feel like again that's the parent trying to prevent that child from being their true self.
00:42:04.786 -->
00:42:10.945My mom, when I was young, for instance my mom, you know I wanted to go to school in a dress and she told me she gave me the option.
00:42:10.945 -->
00:42:19.726She said you could go to school in the dress and kids may make fun of you, or you could dress like a boy and when you can come, when you come home, you can put the dress on and be safe here.
00:42:20.206 -->
00:42:22.969And she gave me that choice and I said fuck the kids wearing the dress.
00:42:22.969 -->
00:42:41.152And I think, giving the kids that option, instead of phrasing it like boys don't wear dresses, I feel like you should instead phrase it like you know people, let them know the you know the truth of what will happen if you go out dressed as a girl and you're a boy.
00:42:41.152 -->
00:42:44.045People may make fun of you, you may be called names.
00:42:44.045 -->
00:42:54.358Is that something that you want to do and give them the choice, but rather to tell them that they're wrong, for that, I feel like puts it in their head that there's something wrong with them.
00:42:54.378 -->
00:43:06.052I feel like all of us, probably when we were younger, probably experimented with gender and really got that message right away that it was wrong, and we were punished or at least I did like I will never forget.
00:43:06.052 -->
00:43:29.007When I started, like you know, my, my parents obviously punished like physically punished me in some really difficult ways, like when I, would you know, experiment with gender, and then I remember I would like wrap, I would like try to turn things into accessories, right, and my dad would just hit the roof and start screaming at me about that, you know like, because I look gay, right.
00:43:29.007 -->
00:43:41.347So I don't know if there's like a danger, kelly, of like the kid not getting the message that this stuff is his, that this is what boys do or maybe I'm naive about that, I don't know.
00:43:41.639 -->
00:43:56.507Well, I don't know if I just see like too much like conservative media on my page, but like a lot of people would say that like, oh, you're grooming your child if you allow them to wear a dress or if you, if your child wants to wear a dress and you tell them, no, that's also grooming you know what I mean.
00:43:56.568 -->
00:44:00.561I feel like I'm listening to the child more and seeing who this person wants to be.
00:44:00.561 -->
00:44:01.985Kids are not stupid.
00:44:01.985 -->
00:44:06.722I'm tired, I'm like so sick of people acting like kids are dumb and that they're too young to know.
00:44:06.722 -->
00:44:10.597Kids know who they are and we all try on cis trans.
00:44:10.597 -->
00:44:11.018Doesn't matter.
00:44:11.018 -->
00:44:12.963We all go through different phases in our life.
00:44:13.684 -->
00:44:36.251Allow that child to express themselves and guide them through that, protecting them, but don't don't limit them yeah, I feel like it's so hard because it's like how do you tell, based on those types of things we were talking about, like wearing dresses, how do you know the kid, that child, wants to actually transition or it's just gonna grow up and be a regular gay guy, like?
00:44:36.251 -->
00:44:46.702I think there's, because there's experimentation, like we all acknowledge there's experimentation, and I think what it comes down to is, like when I think about it, like how do I, how am I confident that transition was right for me?
00:44:46.702 -->
00:44:48.206It was time.
00:44:48.206 -->
00:44:58.201I gave myself time and like the feelings did not go away, they were persistent, and that was what kind of informed me like hey, this isn't going to change for me.
00:44:58.583 -->
00:45:03.019I need to make a decision on how I want to set up my life for like the rest of my future.
00:45:03.019 -->
00:45:04.983Do I want to be a depressed man or do I want to like be the woman that I really want to set up my life for like the rest of my future?
00:45:04.983 -->
00:45:07.873Do I want to be a depressed man or do I want to like be the woman that I really want to be?
00:45:07.873 -->
00:45:26.070And it's like I needed time to figure that out and it's like what we want to do is is somehow like hit that sweet spot of giving them time and space to figure this out, but also not too much time that they're going through puberty and having all those masculinization effects happen before like they're ready to.
00:45:26.070 -->
00:45:28.981So it's it's a hard balance, can.
00:45:29.001 -->
00:45:39.268I ask a quick question Was there any point where any of us, like at any age, if someone said, hey, you can be a girl, you would not have just said yes, absolutely.
00:45:39.268 -->
00:45:49.202I mean, would y'all have had to think about it, cause I wouldn't have no have had to think about it because I wouldn't have.
00:45:49.242 -->
00:45:49.563No, yeah, not me.
00:45:49.563 -->
00:45:50.284So I think, sky, what about you?
00:45:50.284 -->
00:45:53.693I, I would have thought about it like, if I'm being perfectly honest, yeah, like I didn't know.
00:45:53.693 -->
00:45:59.177I wasn't fully confident in that decision because I didn't know what life would look like exactly.
00:45:59.177 -->
00:46:08.596As a woman, I needed to like approach it in parts, especially because, because, like I don't think HRT or like transition, is necessarily an all things equal path.
00:46:08.596 -->
00:46:14.411Like I think there's risks to long-term usage that we may not know all about, but it's like.
00:46:14.411 -->
00:46:19.824It's like I just don't really think you can look at transition as like an all things equal decision.
00:46:19.824 -->
00:46:22.266Did you know that at five years old, though?
00:46:23.650 -->
00:46:28.085Sure, if someone said like press a button and you turn into a girl.
00:46:28.266 -->
00:46:39.637Oh my gosh, okay, well, this hypothetical like yeah, like sure it with no consequences, but like that's not life, like no, it's not life, yeah, yeah, I, I think it's.
00:46:39.998 -->
00:46:44.862I get the hypothetical, I think, which is just like, what was your natural impulse towards?
00:46:44.862 -->
00:47:20.422And, you know, did that turn out to be correct, though, you know, and Kelly's talking about this like grooming thing and I think the problem here is really just that there's really mixed messages from the sort of progressive, trans side when, again, like I think, kids should be able to able to, you know, express themselves and experiment and do those things, um, and I don't think that necessarily we have to, like put them on a medical path as a result of that right, I think you can just experiment without going down the medical route.
00:47:20.422 -->
00:47:35.282And one of the problems is that one of the ways we've advocated for ourselves is by saying, like you know I don't know if you've had this experience I had this experience where I was a gender non-conforming kid.
00:47:35.282 -->
00:47:50.347I came out to my mom and I had months and months of conversations with her where I would go to her and I would make these appeals based on science and I would tell her listen, this is what the studies say.
00:47:50.347 -->
00:48:21.001Like you know, it's really gonna work out for me, and I did that for months and it wasn't until I like broke down crying in front of her and showed the depth of my emotion on the issue, that she really was able to connect with me and we made plans to drive six hours out to you know a city where they'd have an endocrinologist that could work with me, and that was so important for me to advocate for myself.
00:48:21.661 -->
00:48:39.351But I also recognize that in advocating for ourselves sometimes we create this impression that if any kid has, like a gender non-conforming behavior, that means that we need to, like get them on this path to medicalization, and that's just not necessarily true.
00:48:39.371 -->
00:48:50.751It needs to be handled delicately and I think that the reason conservatives feel like it's grooming is because a lot of people aren't willing to acknowledge that like.
00:48:50.751 -->
00:48:59.364Sometimes you might want to transition when you're like a kid because you don't fully understand what that means, and then you change your mind as, like, an adolescent.
00:48:59.364 -->
00:49:40.487That wasn't the case for me, maybe that's not the case for most people, but it's important that at the very least we have, like, an expert, you know a doctor who is experienced in this, to help give guidance and, frankly, to feel like they can help give that guidance without having the political pressure from their peers to just like sign off on everything, and so that is so hard to get, but it needs to happen, and as soon as we have that, I think it's going to be so much easier to just say like, yeah, kids can experiment with gender, totally fine, cause that doesn't necessarily mean that they're going to be put on a medical path and we can trust the system to make the right decision.
00:49:40.849 -->
00:49:51.483But I think where the issue comes in and why some people call it grooming, is because do you not think allowing that experimentation could eventually lead down to a medical path in the future, whereas it wouldn't have before?
00:49:52.005 -->
00:49:55.231um apologies.
00:49:55.231 -->
00:49:59.565We'll edit this out I'll totally edit.
00:49:59.664 -->
00:50:11.688No, I'm gonna keep it right here, we're just gonna slow down, it's gonna be beautiful, yeah, um no, I mean, I I don't think so.
00:50:11.688 -->
00:50:12.210I think it's.
00:50:12.210 -->
00:50:22.007I think it's unlikely that if you let a kid, you know, play with their gender, you know wear different clothes, that that's going to necessarily mean that they get on this medical path.
00:50:22.007 -->
00:50:34.389I think that if you talk to a doctor, I think you start putting them on this medical path and I think sometimes the messaging from the community is not very helpful, especially if the kid is having doubts.
00:50:34.748 -->
00:50:38.965A lot of times the message from the trans community is just like transition harder.
00:50:38.965 -->
00:50:53.112It's like get more surgeries, and that might not be helpful for someone who really is having doubts and doesn't understand that, like you know, is totally fine to have experimented and to decide.
00:50:53.112 -->
00:50:53.594It's not for you.
00:50:53.594 -->
00:50:55.242That's also okay.
00:50:55.242 -->
00:50:57.146It's okay if someone wants to detransition.
00:50:57.146 -->
00:51:17.161And I think some people even feel like they're locked into transition because you know they've made all these arguments, they've put in all this work, they've demanded everyone around them change their pronouns and now they're like oh no, if I go back on this, like I'm gonna look like a fool and I might hurt like other trans people.
00:51:17.161 -->
00:51:18.726Right, that shouldn't be the case.
00:51:18.786 -->
00:51:25.166Like you should be able to someone that's tough is like uh, you know this trump university scheme that came out.
00:51:25.166 -->
00:51:31.505Uh, you know everyone that went to trump university like said initially like, oh, it was the best thing I ever did.
00:51:31.505 -->
00:51:33.329I got so much value out of it.
00:51:33.329 -->
00:51:37.347And then the lawsuit comes and these same people are testifying like, yeah, it was a scam.
00:51:37.347 -->
00:51:52.130I think it caused fallacy with a lot of trans people, like especially that one dude that got a vaginoplasty and then like decided to detransition a lot of some cost at that point, dude.
00:51:52.130 -->
00:51:55.820So I I agree with you a hundred percent in there.
00:51:55.820 -->
00:52:05.369We need more room in our community for people at detransition like not everyone that does this automatically becomes a chloe cole and like a grifter yes, heard our rights.
00:52:06.519 -->
00:52:17.831That's not the case and we need to be able to platform these people without having them like run straight into the arms of like the craziest, like gender critical person who is just going to give them a microphone.
00:52:17.831 -->
00:52:23.905Like we actually have to have conversations about this and not just shun these people A hundred percent plastic.
00:52:23.945 -->
00:52:24.447How do you feel?
00:52:24.447 -->
00:52:25.028How do you feel?
00:52:25.028 -->
00:52:25.538How do you feel?
00:52:25.557 -->
00:52:30.869yeah, about which part on that, yeah, just jump on in well, I okay.
00:52:30.889 -->
00:52:44.469So I'm still in my head on the um on trans kids, because again I think that it's, um like, really important to also because, like, each trans person's journey is unique to them.
00:52:44.469 -->
00:52:53.085You know, and I've had two friends, two really close friends of mine, that have detransitioned and both of them ended up transitioning back to female trans.
00:52:53.085 -->
00:53:17.088They were assigned male at birth, transition to female and then mid-transition, transition back to male and then transition back to female again, and now we're completely happy as female and, um like, the thing with that is is that a lot of both of their backgrounds were conservative families were shaming them, so that was what was responsible for their detransition, and I think that we're not crediting that enough.
00:53:17.088 -->
00:53:20.902I feel like we see detransition stories and we're like, oh, they immediately regretted it.
00:53:20.902 -->
00:53:28.445We're not thinking about their home, who was whispering in their ear, and the fact that it was conservative rhetoric that was shaming them.
00:53:29.188 -->
00:53:47.315Again, I do feel that, yes, in some instances that it's probably best that we maybe set, like I said, stricter rules or checks and balances for kids going on the medical path, but also, I don't feel like we should be able to overstep that.
00:53:47.315 -->
00:54:13.764I think that's something that should be between the trans child, the parent and the doctors Because, like for me, I'm glad personally that I didn't go on hormones super young because I ended up getting the vaginoplasty and I had a lot to work with and it made my results much better and congratulations very happy whereas, like, there are other people who went on very young and did not have a lot of growth and it made their surgery much more difficult.
00:54:13.804 -->
00:54:15.550So there are pros and cons to both.
00:54:15.550 -->
00:54:21.920Again, I wouldn't want somebody to tell that person though no, you can't do that because I didn't do it and I don't think it was right.
00:54:21.920 -->
00:54:22.603Like you know what I mean.
00:54:22.603 -->
00:54:34.889I feel like we're overstepping a lot here by feeling that we have the right to decide for other trans people how they transition yeah, I just oh god, you know I am.
00:54:34.969 -->
00:54:36.972I'm gonna start a little bit of a public fight today.
00:54:36.972 -->
00:54:40.385I agree with you that that's a huge portion of it.
00:54:40.385 -->
00:54:45.400But I also think some of these decred transitioners I think they're crossies to find out.
00:54:45.400 -->
00:54:57.980They just don't like the effects of of hormones in their body, like take ray gp I'm sorry that dude is the most obvious crossy, like transvestite cross dresser on the entire planet.
00:54:57.980 -->
00:55:00.807Like he says he's on estrogen forever.
00:55:00.807 -->
00:55:01.570It's like what?
00:55:01.570 -->
00:55:06.764Two milligrams or something, so you can make sure to like jack off the entire time like god.
00:55:06.764 -->
00:55:09.431Some of these people get on hrt and it's.
00:55:09.431 -->
00:55:15.389It's distressing for them because it's about like sex, it's not about their identity and that's okay.
00:55:15.389 -->
00:55:18.164If you want to go be a crossy, more power to you.
00:55:18.164 -->
00:55:21.936But I mean like I don't think it's all just conservatives.
00:55:21.936 -->
00:55:32.907I think some people go down this path of finding out if there's like a woman inside and there's just not, and that's okay, like they should be able to go back there's a lot of fetishizing it.
00:55:33.389 -->
00:55:41.681Yeah, I do see that a lot too, and that is like I'm able to clock that immediately and I do have an issue with that because it's like, bitch, don't be trying to get in my circle.
00:55:41.681 -->
00:55:43.005But I think like we need to.
00:55:43.005 -->
00:55:48.228That comes in with the checks and balances of like.
00:55:48.228 -->
00:56:01.306We need to set clear, concise rules and boundaries in the trans community that protect trans people and also protect non-trans people, and hopefully we could get to that point at some point.
00:56:01.327 -->
00:56:01.949That's a true point.
00:56:02.009 -->
00:56:10.447I agree, yeah, I mean yeah, and not necessarily to like muddy the waters, but I I think that it's complicated too.
00:56:10.447 -->
00:56:19.862Like you could have people that there is a sexuality that goes with their transition, but it's not the motivator, it's not why there's a conflict born out of it.
00:56:19.862 -->
00:56:22.550I mean that that connects to my Like.
00:56:22.550 -->
00:56:29.088I definitely would say like for me, like I have some of that auto sexuality, but that's not why I transitioned.
00:56:29.501 -->
00:56:42.467I transitioned because I couldn't be happy as a man, as a male, in society, and it's like, does that mean like you know, because I share some similarities to Ray GP that I couldn't transition?
00:56:42.467 -->
00:56:47.422No, it just means that there should be standards, gatekeeping, just like we're saying.
00:56:47.422 -->
00:56:56.396But I'm just trying to, you know, build on that standard and say like there's a lot of nuances and individual components that go into transition.
00:56:56.396 -->
00:57:07.181And I think the bottom line that we're all reaching here is that there needs to be some criteria and time to figure those things out and to like work with that individual to really assess hey, do you want to be some criteria and time to figure those things out and to like work with that individual to really assess?
00:57:07.181 -->
00:57:12.942Hey, do you want to be a woman at 30, 40, 50 years old, because this stays with you.
00:57:13.021 -->
00:57:19.652You know you do this and it's a it's a direction you're moving in your life and you got to be signing up for a lot more than I don't know.
00:57:19.692 -->
00:57:43.512Some short-term sexual fulfillment or whatever you know is is motivating some of this you know group, and so it's like I just think better therapy and more knowledge on the effects are really what like need to be proliferated and understood so that we don't have, like you all mentioned, certain detransitioners that you know platform and then speak out against it.
00:57:43.880 -->
00:57:46.947I mean, I saw this firsthand at the Gens gen spec conference that I went to.
00:57:46.947 -->
00:57:50.434That was like chloe cole uh, actually she wasn't there.
00:57:50.434 -->
00:58:04.664I don't think she was there, um, but like other detransitioners, were there prisha was there, a different one, um, and it's just like when you see the harm on them, like they clearly weren't good candidates but they were pushed in this direction.
00:58:04.664 -->
00:58:10.014So there, there needs to be some reforms, and so I'm kind of sympathetic to their, to what they're saying.
00:58:10.014 -->
00:58:19.608I just I just want to make sure we minimize the collateral damage as these voices come forward and that you know we see that transition does work for some.
00:58:19.608 -->
00:58:29.335It's just a matter of figuring out who that is and understanding, like you know, an individualized approach, how to help that person arrive at that conclusion.
00:58:30.079 -->
00:58:32.324Skylar, Donald Trump gets elected.
00:58:32.324 -->
00:58:39.255He creates the perfect trans policy, fixes the economy, deports all illegal immigrants.
00:58:39.255 -->
00:58:40.780This is your dream.
00:58:40.780 -->
00:58:41.981What's your ideal if Trump gets elected?
00:58:41.981 -->
00:58:42.802This is your dream.
00:58:42.802 -->
00:58:44.605What's your ideal if Trump gets elected?
00:58:45.346 -->
00:58:47.768Oh God, I don't know.
00:58:47.768 -->
00:58:54.956I mean, it's definitely I'm not, like I'm not concerned about immigration, like illegal immigrants aren't a problem for me.
00:58:57.079 -->
00:58:58.123That's not a problem for me.
00:58:58.523 -->
00:59:41.561I mean I don't have anything to really speak on there, I don't have a lot of knowledge on that, yeah, but when it comes to guess like trans rights, like I would like to see like a sort of a return to kind of what things used to sort of be um, and so what I mean by that is like not all the way, but like partially back from like funneling trans women or trans women into men, into women's prisons that aren't transitioned or convicted with sexual, you know issues and then like things like that, like I don't want to see that happening because I think that's where, like you know, things are kind of rubbing up against you know, the political or like the society's viewpoint of trans people.
00:59:42.202 -->
01:00:03.123And so, in terms of like weighing the sort of trans stuff that I know we've like talked a lot about versus all of the other issues going into the election, you know, would you say in general, you find, like Donald Trump's you know positions, seated positions, it's we can get into it like I don't know how much of his stated positions he like truly believes in or is going to enact.
01:00:03.123 -->
01:00:05.641Uh, but you know you're weighing these.
01:00:05.641 -->
01:00:14.387Are you really seeing like the rest of his positions as being like maybe good, maybe bad, or like are there some that you like are generally in favor of?
01:00:14.387 -->
01:00:17.342Um, yeah, how does that weigh out?
01:00:17.342 -->
01:00:18.684How do you do that?
01:00:20.190 -->
01:00:21.855I'm not a political person.
01:00:21.855 -->
01:00:23.858I honestly was.
01:00:23.858 -->
01:00:24.902I'm still on the fence.
01:00:24.902 -->
01:00:34.213To be honest, I'm like going to decide the day of, but like I think for me it's just um, well, okay, short answer is no, I don't really like his personality.
01:00:34.213 -->
01:00:37.559I, like I mentioned, I voted for biden in the first, in the last election.
01:00:37.559 -->
01:00:43.670It's just that I'm worried about the, the continual swing of progressivism for four more years.
01:00:43.670 -->
01:00:57.400Like I just think there's a pendulum here and I want to have some pushback on that direction so that the end result of the blowback isn't so bad, because I see the direction yeah, with detransitioners and those types of things and I get a little concerned.
01:00:57.400 -->
01:00:59.666I, I hear you and I again.
01:00:59.684 -->
01:01:01.188We're gonna be friends, no matter what.
01:01:03.920 -->
01:01:21.628Don't kick me off the podcast no, no, no, we love you too much, scott I really feel where you're coming from with that like um, you know, this is my problem with trump, though he's not a policy guy like let's take something you said that I agree with, which is that our border is a serious problem.
01:01:21.628 -->
01:01:26.114You know, like I'm not coming at this from like a xenophobic perspective.
01:01:26.114 -->
01:01:28.855It's 100% a national security perspective.
01:01:28.855 -->
01:01:32.306Like down there on the southern border we've got so many crossings a day.
01:01:32.306 -->
01:01:35.244You know, the asylum system is clearly broken.
01:01:35.244 -->
01:01:37.581We don't know who's coming into the country.
01:01:37.581 -->
01:01:39.268The asylum system is clearly broken.
01:01:39.268 -->
01:01:40.813We don't know who's coming into the country.
01:01:40.813 -->
01:01:57.108You know, one of the stories we've just forgotten to memory hold from the Bush era is someone coming into the United States with a dirty bomb with the intention of attacking us and basically spreading radiological material in one of our major cities.
01:01:57.108 -->
01:01:59.092So I'm really like sympathetic for a Natsak perspective to this goal of fixing the border.
01:01:59.092 -->
01:02:07.215My problem with donald trump is nothing he like plans to do from a policy perspective will actually um address that ways.
01:02:07.215 -->
01:02:10.523The reason the border is broken is because we don't have enough judges.
01:02:10.523 -->
01:02:19.097The judges here in massachusetts have actually been uh dispatched down to the southern border to help adjudicate some of these cases as they're coming through.
01:02:19.599 -->
01:02:20.885Donald Trump wasn't going to do that.
01:02:20.885 -->
01:02:24.077He was to build a wall from sea to shining sea right.
01:02:24.077 -->
01:02:30.255So the problem, over and over again, is this is my job and I do know a thing or two about this.
01:02:30.255 -->
01:02:44.655And when it comes to like the economy, his plan for the economy last time was one of reasons inflation got so high high like just unchecked spending deficit uh, deficits skyrocketing basically shooting bazookas of cash at the stock market.
01:02:44.655 -->
01:02:56.643There are so many people have made tons of money by just like following whatever the fed was investing in, investing their money in during covid, because they were shooting so much cash there, you couldn't help but get very, very rich.
01:02:56.643 -->
01:03:02.663Doing it so like it's just every single like strategy he tries to implement.
01:03:02.663 -->
01:03:04.887It doesn't seem like it's skillfully done.
01:03:04.887 -->
01:03:17.159I'm with you on being frustrated with a lot of the progressive excesses, but it just seems like there's a real competence issue that goes along with getting the republicans into government, and that's what pushes me away.
01:03:17.159 -->
01:03:17.661I.
01:03:17.701 -->
01:03:18.724I mean, can I ask you something?
01:03:18.724 -->
01:03:40.539Yeah, of course it sounds like on the issue of protectionism, you see some value in manufacturing home On the issue of the border, just a real security issue with illegal immigrants and our broken asylum system which is costing us lots of money, hurting actual, real asylum seekers because we can't process all these people fast enough.
01:03:40.539 -->
01:03:51.637You know you have these worries about the excesses of the progressive movement but at the end of the day, your feeling is that like trump, he's just not a policy guy and like this is all kind of lip service.
01:03:51.637 -->
01:04:01.731I'm gonna, I think like the fact that it's all kind of lip service is the only reason to consider Trump Really.
01:04:03.396 -->
01:04:04.802That's very smart actually.
01:04:04.802 -->
01:04:05.815Yeah, because.
01:04:05.996 -->
01:04:19.876OK, I'm going to annoy all like the Trumples Trump appeals to like a lot of fucking idiots who like don't understand anything about politics and who are, like you know, big, beautiful wall.
01:04:19.896 -->
01:04:21.621That sounds amazing, like that's going to protect us.
01:04:21.621 -->
01:04:31.903Um, they like imagine him like walking into like a boardroom with, like Putin and Xi and just like slapping his like fat orange cock on the table and suddenly, you know, american foreign policy is solved.
01:04:31.903 -->
01:04:33.876In reality, that doesn't happen.
01:04:33.876 -->
01:04:52.585And also, in reality, like when candidates run on these sort of arguments, then they get into office and then they are much more responsive to wealthier donors, people who are more educated, people who are actually writing policy.
01:04:52.585 -->
01:05:29.492I think that you can sort of see that there's a political meta which has developed where, like, the Republican Party is willing to run this candidate who is quite, he's like, narcissistic I don't know if he really has, like any deep values besides personal self-aggrandizement but he gets votes and the Republicans, who are powerful and who have money, understand that if Trump gets into office, this guy, who doesn't really have a ton of strong opinions of his own, is going to be able to sign off on policy that they've carefully crafted.
01:05:30.376 -->
01:05:31.702This is what crypto wants to do.
01:05:31.702 -->
01:05:32.960They're a perfect example.
01:05:32.960 -->
01:05:34.018This is what.
01:05:34.077 -->
01:05:42.789Elon wants to do at 100% and I think if you look at his presidency, you know, in 2016, I think that that's what you see for the most part.
01:05:42.789 -->
01:06:07.186Like you're right, he was inflationary, you know, and I certainly cannot give him credit for that, but a lot of his strategy came from, basically, republican operatives who are a lot smarter than he is and told him, like you know, appoint these judges, they will rule on Chevron, they'll rule on, you know, roe, and suddenly the Republicans are winning these victories.
01:06:07.186 -->
01:06:22.864I think that, if you are, if your number one issue with Trump is, like he's not a policy guy, I think maybe that's not so important and maybe it's more important that you care about the immigration and the protectionism and you know the excesses of progressivism.
01:06:22.864 -->
01:06:28.378Honestly, I, if I were in your position, I would let that weigh more on me the last time around.
01:06:28.498 -->
01:06:29.842Like, what was he effective on?
01:06:29.842 -->
01:06:31.166What was Trump's really like?
01:06:31.166 -->
01:06:33.057Let's look at just policy to policy.
01:06:33.057 -->
01:06:34.059What does Biden have?
01:06:34.059 -->
01:06:36.784He's got Inflation Reduction Act that was effective.
01:06:36.784 -->
01:06:39.527Chips was effective for getting stuff back here.
01:06:39.527 -->
01:06:46.740Domestically we lowered inflation faster than any other country in the world.
01:06:46.740 -->
01:06:50.248I think that when it came to the war supporting Ukraine A-plus for that.
01:06:50.248 -->
01:06:53.003Rolling out the vaccine A-plus for that.
01:06:53.003 -->
01:06:55.643Supporting Israel, I'll give them a C-plus.
01:06:55.643 -->
01:06:59.545They're solid policy accomplishments there.
01:06:59.545 -->
01:07:04.987When I look at trump, I mean like I don't mean this snarkily what can you point to?
01:07:04.987 -->
01:07:08.039Is a an accomplishment of his presidency?
01:07:08.039 -->
01:07:09.181Warp speed.
01:07:09.181 -->
01:07:10.826My husband works in this industry.
01:07:10.826 -->
01:07:14.221That money was allocated far before he got into office.
01:07:14.221 -->
01:07:17.277If I thought he deserved credit for all of that, I would give it to him.
01:07:17.277 -->
01:07:18.280I don't think it's fair.
01:07:18.280 -->
01:07:25.005Like frank worked on the moderno portion of that, like these times these were, this was 10 years in development ahead of that.
01:07:25.005 -->
01:07:29.097So like, what is the policy that he accomplished last time real?
01:07:29.277 -->
01:07:35.519yeah, I don't know if I would say there's like a ton, I think you know, like you already mentioned, I think there's prison reform.
01:07:35.519 -->
01:07:37.525I think that's fair.
01:07:37.525 -->
01:07:47.402Yeah, I think that if you are a big fan of donald trump, it probably points the fact that you had like lower border crossings you can like take credit for.
01:07:47.402 -->
01:07:48.967That is maybe questionable.
01:07:48.967 -->
01:07:58.960Um, I think you would point to the fact that there was so much inflation towards the latter half of his presidency as being a covet thing or, you know, towards the very end of it.
01:07:58.960 -->
01:08:04.318I think you would say it's just like a COVID thing and, um, you know, there wasn't much way of getting out of that.
01:08:04.318 -->
01:08:09.259I think they would point to the facts that, like it or not, there were no new wars.
01:08:09.259 -->
01:08:32.777Um, you know, and maybe if a war in Ukraine had, you know, broken out, I think I would have loved Donald Trump to make the same policy decisions that biden did because, frankly, the biden administration handled ukraine extremely well being able to utilize old technology to, you know, massively slow down and cost one of our biggest geopolitical rivals tons of money.
01:08:32.777 -->
01:08:35.402Probably slowed down the invasion of Taiwan, you know.
01:08:35.402 -->
01:08:37.826Fantastic, I think.
01:08:37.826 -->
01:08:40.369Maybe, if you do care a lot about Israel.
01:08:40.369 -->
01:08:48.804Trump is a lot more muscular on Israel than Kamala Harris, and so I don't know.
01:08:49.255 -->
01:08:57.926I think it's interesting that between you and Skyler you have this sort of duality where one person is like you know, I'm not super interested in the policy, but like I just think it's going to be a cultural change.
01:08:57.926 -->
01:09:04.779And then, brianna, one person is like you know, I'm not super interested in the policy, but like I just think it's going to be a cultural change, and then, brianna, you're like you know, I'm only interested in what he says policy-wise.
01:09:04.779 -->
01:09:08.416Um, this seems like you might align on him, at least in a perfect world.
01:09:08.416 -->
01:09:09.418Oh, of course I do.
01:09:09.418 -->
01:09:12.386And I'll say election denialism really bad.
01:09:12.386 -->
01:09:15.863Yeah, really, that's my number one thing play against donald trump.
01:09:16.123 -->
01:09:20.478I did not like his trans ban in the military, nope, that whole thing.
01:09:20.478 -->
01:09:28.050There you go because like well, so I was like I was kind of okay with it until I found out that it was all a unilateral across the board.
01:09:28.050 -->
01:09:31.420I thought it was just combat, but it was non-combat and combat.
01:09:31.420 -->
01:09:42.788So even like intelligence roles that had zero like impact, of being like on medication or whatever, are impacted now and, and it's like I don't really want to see that, but it's like what am I left?
01:09:42.788 -->
01:09:45.335Like this is where I really just don't like the two party system.
01:09:45.335 -->
01:09:51.818Like my real problems lie more with, like the structure of our politics than it has to do.
01:09:52.078 -->
01:09:55.795That Like produces these, yeah, like these candidates.
01:09:55.795 -->
01:10:03.023It's like that's where I'm just like and I think we can all agree on that like neither of these candidates are perfect and it's like we're too.
01:10:03.023 -->
01:10:19.858I mean, I feel like this is the you know lesser of two evils type of thing again, and it's like I don't know, it's like I will say too, the other thing that has me going for kamala is that it looks like the house and the senate are projected to be Republican, which makes me scared.
01:10:19.858 -->
01:10:21.765If you know it's all Republican.
01:10:21.765 -->
01:10:28.260Yes, and he already signed like the most executive orders Like I forget how many it was, but it was an insane number.
01:10:29.335 -->
01:10:32.198Can you imagine a Supreme Court that was more against this?
01:10:32.198 -->
01:10:34.104Anyway, I want plastic and calories.
01:10:34.123 -->
01:10:41.780Yes, Well, I'm 1,015 bajillion percent against Trump when.
01:10:44.247 -->
01:10:49.523Hold on, I'm writing this down, the number 1,015 billion percent.
01:10:49.523 -->
01:10:50.466Okay, we've got.
01:10:50.488 -->
01:10:56.141My ass will be out of the country before January when that happens.
01:10:56.141 -->
01:10:58.067But you're Jewish, you can move to Israel.
01:10:58.067 -->
01:11:04.801Can I come room with you?
01:11:04.801 -->
01:11:07.466I just I it's I don't.
01:11:07.466 -->
01:11:08.546I don't understand.
01:11:08.546 -->
01:11:13.001I know that a few of you are considering trump, but I just don't understand how I mean it is.
01:11:13.082 -->
01:11:18.903So he's so transparent and clear of how he will dismantle this country and there is no benefit to it.
01:11:18.903 -->
01:11:19.645There really isn't.
01:11:19.645 -->
01:11:21.322He's going to destroy the economy.
01:11:21.322 -->
01:11:23.483He's going to take away trans rights.
01:11:23.483 -->
01:11:25.274He's going to undo gay rights.
01:11:25.274 -->
01:11:28.625He's going to take away all women's rights that they already have.
01:11:28.625 -->
01:11:31.523Roe is just the tip of the iceberg for that one.
01:11:31.935 -->
01:11:34.583I mean, why would we want to even entertain that?
01:11:34.583 -->
01:11:37.425He's even said day one he will be a dictator.
01:11:37.425 -->
01:11:39.978Again, we want to even entertain that?
01:11:39.978 -->
01:11:41.122He's even said day one he will be a dictator again.
01:11:41.122 -->
01:11:45.097Four years of kamala is a small price to pay for another free and fair election rather than a dictatorship that you will just be.
01:11:45.097 -->
01:11:47.987I mean again, look at nazi germany.
01:11:47.987 -->
01:11:50.153Do we really, did we forget about this?
01:11:50.153 -->
01:11:51.936Do we really need a reminder of this?
01:11:52.497 -->
01:12:00.309This is what dictatorship looks like, and and even earlier we were talking about that stupid anti-trans commercial.
01:12:00.309 -->
01:12:01.890That's propaganda.
01:12:01.890 -->
01:12:03.341That's what Hitler did with the Jews.
01:12:03.341 -->
01:12:05.314This is what he's doing with trans people.
01:12:05.314 -->
01:12:09.447We are the current target that he's using to manipulate his dumb ass followers.
01:12:09.447 -->
01:12:14.341We are the big bad wolf that he's created, and that's what Hitler did with the Jews.
01:12:14.341 -->
01:12:16.643We are the vermin poisoning the country.
01:12:17.315 -->
01:12:28.225He's using the same terminology that Hitler used and I am sorry, I just don't see a world where, even if he had one policy, that was a pro voting for a Hitler wannabe.
01:12:28.225 -->
01:12:30.789He idolizes people like Putin.
01:12:30.789 -->
01:12:37.287He idolizes Hitler, and his entire fan base pretty much is waving a giant fucking swastika.
01:12:37.287 -->
01:12:39.360And then there's people who are like well, I just don't know.
01:12:39.360 -->
01:12:39.782I don't know.
01:12:39.782 -->
01:12:55.457I think he might be good Really, because, as a Jew who understands history, I don't think he will be good and I know for a fact that all women and trans people and gay people and black people and Jews and whoever is not Christian, white, cisgender, hetero male will be royally fucked if he gets an office.
01:12:55.457 -->
01:13:12.820Christian, white, cisgender, hetero male will be royally fucked if he gets in office, and so will the entirety of our country, and not just our country but the world, because he will be teaming up with the other dictator, fascist nutjobs in this world and they will essentially take over and invade and you know they're power hungry.
01:13:12.820 -->
01:13:13.382They will stop.
01:13:15.420 -->
01:13:16.082It will be the end.
01:13:17.015 -->
01:13:20.197He does seem to have an alliance with, uh, authoritarians.
01:13:20.197 -->
01:13:22.240That I find really, really disturbing.
01:13:22.240 -->
01:13:25.427Um, yeah, kelly, you haven't talked for a while.
01:13:25.427 -->
01:13:26.337I want you to jump in.
01:13:26.337 -->
01:13:27.238What do you think, girl?
01:13:27.560 -->
01:13:37.381yeah, I mean I it's tough for me just because I I feel like you guys are so much more educated on politics and all like this lingo and like half the time it just sounds like mumbo jumbo to me.
01:13:37.400 -->
01:13:50.386It kind of like got a lot of stuff that plastic was sitting on, just like it's the very basic understandings that I have when it comes to like women's rights and roe versus wade, and just like how a lot of the way trump talks about trans people does kind of remind me of that word.
01:13:50.447 -->
01:13:56.684I can just see the hatred growing um more and more in this country and just not feeling safe when I leave the house half the time.
01:13:56.684 -->
01:14:06.283So to me I'm just voting for the person that stands for democracy and seems like they stand for what I think America should stand for.
01:14:06.283 -->
01:14:09.643So, yeah, that's just where I'm at.
01:14:09.643 -->
01:14:17.002I don't when you guys go into like details about like policies and like the Senate and stuff, like I have no idea half the time.
01:14:17.002 -->
01:14:25.198But honestly, though I feel like I represent a majority of Americans, because I think a lot of Americans are like me we don't really know the in-depth of this stuff.
01:14:25.198 -->
01:14:30.603It's kind of just like we know what we see on TV, we know what we read on Twitter and that's kind of how people are voting, I think.
01:14:32.375 -->
01:14:47.161There's this thing that's like I can't remember where I heard this, but politics takes place locally, like what you see around you, who your friends are and what you like come into contact with, like that your world shapes a lot of like how you think about this.
01:14:47.161 -->
01:15:19.837So, like I live in like conservative land in Virginia and it's like I get a lot of like disproportionately biased information from that direction, and so it's like I, in my view, like if it wasn't for brie, I would think that trump is gonna just win in a landslide, and I'm kind of glad that it's more like, even because I'm like I I mean, I'm not even sure about trump either and like hearing plastic talk, it's like you know it is, it is compelling to be like, yeah, maybe you know kamala is the way forward here and I've just, you know, been looking at the wrong things.
01:15:19.837 -->
01:15:25.158I don't know, and there's just I'm always an open book and I just I appreciate hearing all these perspectives.
01:15:25.158 -->
01:15:25.939Can I ask?
01:15:26.000 -->
01:15:30.899a really honest question sky and again like reference, no matter what, but like january 6th.
01:15:30.899 -->
01:15:32.582How do you feel about that?
01:15:32.582 -->
01:15:35.576Because this was like january 6th happened.
01:15:35.576 -->
01:15:49.146I just worked the presidential election and then, exhausted, I just worked the Georgia but the Senate races I was so tired, I was so grouchy and then the Republicans led an insurrection against the Capitol.
01:15:49.146 -->
01:15:59.698I sat there and just wept openly that day and I think, like you know me well enough to know I'm not some crazy anti-Republican extremist here, like you know me well enough to know I'm not some crazy anti-Republican extremist here.
01:15:59.698 -->
01:16:08.027My job requires me to work with the left and the right, depending on who contracts me out, and you know I treasure constructive relationships with Republicans.
01:16:08.027 -->
01:16:24.640But for anyone that's just an American that was such an incredibly dark day to see people invading our capitals with zip ties, like planning to kidnap members of Congress and deny the election.
01:16:24.640 -->
01:16:26.944I mean, how does that make you feel?
01:16:26.944 -->
01:16:29.315Because I agree with Plastic.
01:16:29.537 -->
01:16:55.295I think the Republicans will try that again and be successful this time, in my view, and be successful this time in my view Well, I guess you know I mean hard to answer that because you know I have no connection to and I don't know anyone that was part of those riots or anything like that but I kind of view it as more of a broader trend of radicalization that's happening in all sorts of spaces in our country.
01:16:55.295 -->
01:16:58.905It's not like this is a Republican-specific phenomenon.
01:16:58.905 -->
01:17:03.845It was that day, but there have been far-left radical things that have happened.
01:17:03.845 -->
01:17:08.402I mean you have radical groups on both sides Proud Boys, antifa, whatever.
01:17:08.402 -->
01:17:21.301I mean there's like it's just where you are and I will admit like, yeah, that was a pretty depressing day, for I think most Americans saw that and were like, yeah, we condemn that, but again it, you know you're not there, you're not prepared for it, all you're.
01:17:21.301 -->
01:17:25.670You know you're watching it from wherever you are and you're like, oh gosh, like what's happening to our country.
01:17:26.051 -->
01:17:30.762What is disappointing is that trump didn't speak out more, more openly against it.
01:17:30.762 -->
01:18:08.747I, you know, I'm absolutely there with you all, but it's like what we really need is to return to civility and dialogue and having open conversations about these things and make politics discussable again, because, quite frankly, I'm scared to talk about it anywhere I go and it's like that's not a good thing, that's not like that's not the kind of culture you want here, and that's the kind of culture that trump is grooming us for, because he's even come out and said that he will punish, at lengths that have never been seen before his words, anybody who was against him and that goes for all the democrat politicians and people in senate and anybody who voted against him.
01:18:09.317 -->
01:18:19.097He will come down on and either arrest them, have them executed, whatever he even used inflammatory language the other day, threatening to kill Liz Cheney, like the things he's saying.
01:18:19.097 -->
01:18:26.701Just you cannot have somebody that disgusting and psychotic in power constantly ratcheting up the inflammatory rhetoric.
01:18:26.841 -->
01:18:29.105Yes and not just, and we all know that.
01:18:29.105 -->
01:18:34.770If god forbid that piece of shit got in office, he's out, but JD Vance will be in power.
01:18:34.770 -->
01:18:37.197And JD Vance is equally as fucking scary.
01:18:37.197 -->
01:18:42.902And, yes, you have all these other people under him, and Trump was a genius putting these people in place.
01:18:42.902 -->
01:18:46.381During his last term, he put people in place that are his little yes.
01:18:46.381 -->
01:18:51.083Men where he could get anything he wants done and he will be absolved of any crime.
01:18:51.083 -->
01:18:53.724He's a 34 time convicted felon rapist.
01:18:53.724 -->
01:18:55.779How can anybody in their right mind be like you know what?
01:18:55.779 -->
01:18:56.520I like him, though.
01:18:56.520 -->
01:18:57.603He's just, he's funny.
01:18:57.603 -->
01:18:59.568I think he should run the country like.
01:18:59.568 -->
01:19:00.189This.
01:19:00.288 -->
01:19:49.743Man is demented and sick and evil, and you may not like kamala, but again, she's not a horrible person and four years of her being a normal president would be way better than a dictatorship under that son of a bitch well, I heard trump quoting recently the alien enemies act of 1798 which, like we know who trump is, he's not like reading a book and like coming across this like interesting bit of war, someone who's told him about this and basically, alien enemies act of 1798 I believe it's what was used to like intern japanese people during world war ii and basically it allows you to say, like an ounce of a country is you know your enemy and then you can start targeting people who might be like spies within your country or going to undermine you domestically.
01:19:49.743 -->
01:19:51.279And that kind of rhetoric.
01:19:51.279 -->
01:19:58.494Also, like Skylar, I don't know if you know anything about, like the false electors scheme, but like it's more than just like violence.
01:19:58.494 -->
01:20:32.148On the day of january 6th, donald trump had been part of a scheme that had been orchestrated since, I think, beginning like before he, actually, you know, before election night, november 6th, um, and it was to be able to send like a group of false electors to potentially install him as president, overriding the, you know, the will of the people or the will of the government.
01:20:33.168 -->
01:20:48.024Even if I agree with, like certain policies of his, or even if I believe that, like if he gets in power, he's ultimately not going to be able to like, do or act on the sort of like nonsense things that he says, even if I think he's going to moderate this.
01:20:48.024 -->
01:21:22.640There's a level of chaos in Trump that really bothers me, and for me it is like a matter of stability where, like I would love you know, my politics are pretty anti-progressive I would love for there to be a meaningful reform on progressivism, but I think thrusting the potential at least to thrust the country into total chaos on the whim of like one man is just beyond the pale and for me, like you know, election day, that is the one issue that is weighing on me more than anything else.
01:21:23.555 -->
01:21:26.005I just I've got two things to say before we close this out.
01:21:26.005 -->
01:21:33.097Taff A I've wanted to tell you this whole show and I love your hair like that, I think it's absolutely gorgeous Really really pretty B.
01:21:33.097 -->
01:21:48.849I just want to note the irony of the woman who is so famous for being, like, skeptical about democracy, the fact that democracy and the threat of democracy that Trump presents, and that's what gets you on board.
01:21:48.849 -->
01:21:52.666I'm happy you're here with us, but I just think that's a little funny.
01:21:53.617 -->
01:21:55.524Well, I can tell you about the psychology behind it.
01:21:55.524 -->
01:22:06.002It's really that I love order and I deeply fear chaos and I see, like you said, lots of criticisms of democracy.
01:22:06.002 -->
01:22:07.240I bring them up constantly.
01:22:07.240 -->
01:22:13.100At the end of the day, order is just so much more important and stability Amazing.
01:22:15.414 -->
01:22:15.837Plastic.
01:22:15.837 -->
01:22:17.502It's been so good to see you today.
01:22:17.502 -->
01:22:17.904Thank you.
01:22:17.904 -->
01:22:20.685You were the first guest we've ever had on dollcast.
01:22:20.828 -->
01:22:21.475Well, I'm honored.
01:22:21.957 -->
01:22:25.783Thank you so much for having me can I say you're prettier in person than you are.
01:22:25.783 -->
01:22:28.525You are so gorgeous, oh my gosh.
01:22:28.627 -->
01:22:30.932I was on your twitter and I was like what the heck?
01:22:32.421 -->
01:22:33.345yeah, thank you.
01:22:33.345 -->
01:22:33.655All.
01:22:33.655 -->
01:22:37.747Of you are gorgeous too, and it was wonderful to be here yeah, it's amazing.
01:22:38.036 -->
01:22:44.987Before we go, can I just ask we're about to do a segment talking about the need for a kinder trans community.
01:22:44.987 -->
01:22:48.363Just very briefly, because we're already at an hour and a half what?
01:22:48.363 -->
01:22:50.923What are kind of your thoughts about the trans community?
01:22:50.923 -->
01:22:59.283Does it ever bum you out that we are so mean to each other, for lack of a better word, yeah, the trans community is just a total shit show.
01:22:59.375 -->
01:23:01.078Everyone's in that.
01:23:01.078 -->
01:23:04.125I think that we definitely need to be kinder.
01:23:04.125 -->
01:23:05.648I've always felt that way.
01:23:05.648 -->
01:23:08.863I've never really been like very involved in the trans community.
01:23:08.863 -->
01:23:15.626Growing up, I didn't have a lot of trans friends because of the, the cattiness yeah, the cattiness, the like.
01:23:15.626 -->
01:23:19.543You need to transition this way, you need to do that, you should get that, and it's like girl, fuck off.
01:23:19.864 -->
01:23:23.194So I think that we're getting there.
01:23:23.194 -->
01:23:26.921I've actually feel like we are starting to unite more.
01:23:26.921 -->
01:23:41.069I don't know if I'm the only one seeing that, but I feel like there is more of like kind of a yeah, a little bit more of like a community now than there was we want to be a community with you and you're welcome on the doll cast anytime well, thank you so much.
01:23:41.289 -->
01:23:48.190I'd love to do a like more casual episode with you, one that's like a little baby, like we've got.
01:23:48.190 -->
01:23:49.414Our third topic is fashion.
01:23:49.414 -->
01:23:51.940I feel like I want to ask about your cheekbones.
01:23:51.961 -->
01:23:58.926I want to hold this about your cheekbones, oh my god they look, look like Victoria Justices.
01:23:58.945 -->
01:23:59.948They look so prominent.
01:23:59.948 -->
01:24:03.122They're my mommy's cheekbones.
01:24:03.904 -->
01:24:04.365Love me.
01:24:04.365 -->
01:24:06.220Thank you for coming.
01:24:06.983 -->
01:24:07.626Thank you.
01:24:07.626 -->
01:24:10.824Next up, let's dive into a little bit of reflection.
01:24:10.824 -->
01:24:13.384We're talking about why we started Dollcast.
01:24:13.384 -->
01:24:26.895The main reason was simple we wanted to showcase that trans women are drum roll mostly normal women.
01:24:26.895 -->
01:24:35.940We wanted to move away from the sensationalism that proliferates online and show that we navigate everyday life, career hurdles, relationships and everything else just like anyone else, but with our own unique twist.
01:24:35.940 -->
01:24:41.130The point is to de-radicalize the conversation around trans experiences.
01:24:41.130 -->
01:24:44.064So why did we launch Dollcast?
01:24:44.064 -->
01:24:45.180I'll start with you.
01:24:45.935 -->
01:24:47.101Well, it's Kelly's idea.
01:24:47.101 -->
01:24:49.242Kelly, this is all your problem.
01:24:49.242 -->
01:24:51.462You came up with this scheme originally.
01:24:51.462 -->
01:25:07.055So she was talking how she wanted to start a podcast, and one of the reasons I loved Kelly initially is she was willing to talk about this distance, um the difference that she feels between non-binary people and binary trans women.
01:25:07.576 -->
01:25:18.948And I want to be clear, like it's important to me, like one of my really best friends on earth is dana simpson uh, dana, the unicorn um youebe, and the Magical Unicorn, the cartoonist behind that.
01:25:18.948 -->
01:25:23.555Her partner's non-binary and they've been over to my home.
01:25:23.555 -->
01:25:56.421Of course, I want to treat them with respect, but at the same time, there's a public policy difference and, kelly, you were one of the few people that were willing to go forward and try to start that conversation Not that you did it as skillfully as it could be done, but you had the guts to get out there and do it and I just I want a space where we, as trans women, can sit down and legitimately talk through this stuff without the progressive fringe pushing us towards the maximalist position.
01:25:56.421 -->
01:25:56.461I.
01:25:56.461 -->
01:26:02.664I think trans people deserve a community and that's part of why I wanted to start this show.
01:26:03.195 -->
01:26:11.101I think that it's been for a long time that the non-binary community has really wanted to push that they are transgender and that they are no different than us.
01:26:12.475 -->
01:26:19.802And it's frustrating to me because I just think we're two separate things and if we were exactly the same thing, we would have the same exact name.
01:26:19.802 -->
01:26:26.805Like there's a reason they call themselves non-binary and not trans, even though they want to act like it's a subcategory of being trans.
01:26:26.805 -->
01:26:33.240I just don't think it is, especially when you're not going on any form of HRT or making any type of medical transition.
01:26:33.240 -->
01:26:38.525I think a year ago I definitely had a lot more hatred for non-binary people.
01:26:38.525 -->
01:26:43.685I mean, you can definitely find clips of me saying that I that I just don't think they exist.
01:26:43.685 -->
01:27:04.109I think it's that maybe I just don't have an understanding of exactly what non-binary is or at least I didn't back then because when you lump yourself with being trans, it makes me think a transition is taking place right, because you that's literally what trans is like stands for, I mean I don't think we started dollcast, though, to like.
01:27:04.569 -->
01:27:08.501I didn't start it to like make a screed against non-binary people.
01:27:08.501 -->
01:27:15.259I didn't see any space for us to have a community as trans women where we could have honest conversations.
01:27:15.259 -->
01:27:16.921That's that, literally it.
01:27:16.921 -->
01:27:23.140And what I am so tired of personally is this like all of y'all are my sisters.
01:27:23.140 -->
01:27:53.992Like, when we talk, every single time the show is over, I feel energized, I feel happy, I feel like I'm talking to people that understand me, even if we don't all agree on stuff, and what I wanted to build was a place in the trans community People could go to look for meaningful connections with other people that were based more about what we agree on and what our shared values are, rather than, like, enforcing this fringe progressive point of view on maximalist trans politics.
01:27:53.992 -->
01:27:56.783So that's kind of my point of view on that.
01:27:56.783 -->
01:27:57.524How do y'all feel?
01:27:59.015 -->
01:27:59.176politics.
01:27:59.176 -->
01:28:00.279So that's that was kind of my point of view on that.
01:28:00.279 -->
01:28:00.641How do y'all feel?
01:28:00.662 -->
01:29:23.103Yeah, I think it's funny that you say that because in some ways I feel like I'm coming at it from the opposite direction of you, brianna, where, like when I started like talking about politics, I leaned much more into a kind of like conservative worldview and kind of like what kelly is saying, where, like she used to be like more down on non-binary, I think I was also like leaning much more into the conservative side and I think when I look back on that experience, I feel like there was so much more opportunity to make an affirmative case for my own like existence and my own like personhood and rights and also my own ability to like be so much more than just like what the progressive, you know, discourse has pegged us as, and so I really wanted to talk like a little bit less about politics and talk like more just about cultural stuff and get through the values which are really animating all of our lives that are kind of to the side of the really divisive topics that like I think for me I mean I wouldn't say like I was ever, I don't think I was ever like not for the non-binary um identity necessarily.
01:29:23.163 -->
01:29:34.279I think it's just like for me figuring out like how can we make policy that is sustainable for trans people, not like not saying we're making policy, but like what does that look like?
01:29:34.279 -->
01:29:41.020Like exploring like the ins and outs of what makes our community tick and like what works for us.
01:29:41.020 -->
01:29:51.398Because it's like I don't know, I just see a lot, of, a lot of people that aren't making the transition get swept up in our same like identification.
01:29:51.398 -->
01:29:56.435And then people are like, oh no, we don't want to, we don't, we don't support that Like.
01:29:56.435 -->
01:30:09.283I'll never forget when I was talking to a friend recently and she was at her p flag, which is an organization, um, that like helps you know trans people or gender non-conforming you know anyone adjacent in that space?
01:30:09.283 -->
01:30:13.421Um, talk about trans stuff and like figure themselves out.
01:30:13.501 -->
01:30:17.097And there are people she was like yeah, there's like literally so many.
01:30:17.097 -->
01:30:21.710There's about like a quarter to a half of the people have done nothing to transition.
01:30:21.710 -->
01:30:25.242They're just completely there like presentation.
01:30:25.242 -->
01:30:30.862They're like I'm transgender, I'm really a woman inside, and they haven't done anything to transition.
01:30:30.862 -->
01:30:34.436No one wants to say anything negative because they don't want to hurt their feelings.
01:30:34.436 -->
01:30:36.981But then, like everyone's like, yeah, you're so valid.
01:30:36.981 -->
01:30:40.228And it's like, but you can't make policy on that.
01:30:40.228 -->
01:30:43.916And it's like, and I mean, I get where they're coming from.
01:30:43.916 -->
01:30:47.664You know, it's like they want to, you know, support them, they want to help them.
01:30:47.664 -->
01:30:50.822But what does that actually look like?
01:30:50.822 -->
01:30:55.475Is it just validating or is it like well, let's help you get a plan together?
01:30:55.475 -->
01:30:58.345You know, get yourself independent and figure out how to transition.
01:30:58.345 -->
01:31:09.990And so for me, yeah, dolcast is that space to kind of help conceptualize and understand how to make transition work in like a tenable way.
01:31:14.641 -->
01:31:17.908No, I fully you are going to agree with this as well as you, kelly is.
01:31:17.908 -->
01:31:24.139There's a message out there that politics is the solution to any stress with transition.
01:31:24.139 -->
01:31:35.182Right, like, if you're not being treated well as a trans woman, well, the answer is just to wait to the communist future that is inevitably coming, where gender will be abolished and all this stuff is going to work.
01:31:35.182 -->
01:31:46.021And it's like, no, you know, actually, if you're really depressed and transition hasn't fixed all your problems, maybe you need to go to therapy, maybe you need to work on some stuff with your presentation.
01:31:46.021 -->
01:32:13.442If you are transitioning, and something I feel like your generation, um, uh, has really been cheated out of, is that kind of outcome focused community that will sit there Like I remember when I first transitioned and this was, oh my God, this was a long time ago but like you would go to a support group and there would be a form that you would fill out and would say like give this girl, you know, like feedback on her appearance, be kind and compassionate.
01:32:14.015 -->
01:32:17.943And you would sit there and say like okay, this is something you can do better, this is passionate.
01:32:17.943 -->
01:32:19.703And you would sit there and say like, okay, this is something you can do better.
01:32:19.703 -->
01:32:20.465This is something you can do better.
01:32:20.465 -->
01:32:37.143I think it's really hard today because we're not getting that basic culture that tells you how to integrate and go out there and live your best life, where it's not just about being a trans woman, right, um, I think it's all about this fringe progressive political project to destroy gender.
01:32:37.143 -->
01:32:39.073That is just it's it's.
01:32:39.073 -->
01:32:41.219I don't think it's why any of us transition.
01:32:41.219 -->
01:32:46.100So I just wanted to make a community where girls that do want to integrate can come hang out.
01:32:46.140 -->
01:32:49.055I was just saying it tells me that they want to like abolish gender.
01:32:49.055 -->
01:32:54.859Because I think a lot of like non-binary people feel that way, where they're like, oh, what's wrong with creating a genderless society?
01:32:54.859 -->
01:33:00.402I like gender, I like there's like men and women, and that's not to say non-binary people can't exist.
01:33:00.402 -->
01:33:09.911But if you want to make the whole world like a genderless society, I just feel like you're kind of like killing sex, like in general, in a way, because like, what is there not to say like non-binary people aren't attractive?
01:33:09.911 -->
01:33:15.722But I just feel like the whole dynamic of masculinity and femininity is the basis of sex for so many people.
01:33:15.722 -->
01:33:24.301Besides, if you're gay or lesbian, obviously, but even then, like lesbians are attracted to femininity and half the time there's a more masculine and more feminine same with gay men and their relationships.
01:33:24.301 -->
01:33:26.498So I I don't know.
01:33:26.498 -->
01:33:31.323To me, creating a genderless society isn't really something I would ever want.
01:33:31.323 -->
01:33:32.907It feels like erasure.
01:33:33.528 -->
01:33:34.876Honestly, that's.
01:33:34.876 -->
01:33:50.786My entire reason of transitioning was to get out of one gender binary and be into the other, so they're literally talking about erasing the thing that I consider my life's mission, if that makes sense it's so interesting to hear you guys talk about this.
01:33:51.407 -->
01:34:00.048Um, I guess I didn't even realize like, going into this, you had like very specific topics you really wanted a place to express.
01:34:00.408 -->
01:34:23.215I think one of the things that I liked about you know, kelly and brianna, you really brought this to the forefront and skylar, you continue to bring it every week is like this radical honesty and I like that, brianna and kelly, like I see you on Twitter and you are so willing to take stands that are not necessarily going to be popular.
01:34:23.956 -->
01:34:35.702I think that a lot of our best topics are opportunities where there is something that is real and it's deep and it affects everyone, but it's not talked about.
01:34:35.702 -->
01:34:51.368And it's not talked about because everyone's afraid of offending people, and I think we need to have conversations about things like non-binary people and like the differences in how non-binary and binary trans people experience dysphoria.
01:34:51.368 -->
01:35:00.037Like that's an uncomfortable conversation because it's easier to pretend that we're all experiencing the exact same thing and need the exact same things.
01:35:00.037 -->
01:35:24.261But maybe it's better if we can really meet people where they're at and we can like reconcile these elements of the trans community or of culture in general, which are like a little bit uncomfortable, but have just been seething under the surface and causing us so much distress, because we see them manifested in politics and we can't talk about it and they just keep on happening.
01:35:24.261 -->
01:35:26.207So that's why I'm so excited for this.
01:35:26.375 -->
01:35:35.724How can this be a community, taff, if we can't have a conversation like how can it be a community if the maximalist view is the only one that's out there?
01:35:35.724 -->
01:35:39.432You know like, uh, look last week's episode.
01:35:39.432 -->
01:35:43.162We all talked about how flawed we think the idea of agp is.
01:35:43.162 -->
01:35:44.564We think something is there.
01:35:44.564 -->
01:35:48.524I think all of us would agree the model is insufficient sky.
01:35:48.564 -->
01:35:57.336I saw you like me on liking my comment on twitter, talking about agp being like a zombie bite where if you get one little hint of it, it's all that defines you.
01:35:57.336 -->
01:36:09.980Like that's the way some people talk about it and you know, I know that's not the way y'all feel, but there's an entire segment out there that just wants to pretend like this doesn't even exist and that's maximally enforced.
01:36:09.980 -->
01:36:26.787How is this a community if, like Taff, you and I can have shared an experience is so deep and so fundamental to who we are and we can't, like, really deconstruct what it means or where we need to go from here?
01:36:26.787 -->
01:36:36.605I just think so much of the trans community is based on groupthink and silence and I just it's not what I want to build together.
01:36:37.255 -->
01:36:37.695That's how I feel.
01:36:37.695 -->
01:36:38.716I just it's not what I want to build together.
01:36:38.716 -->
01:36:47.085That's how I feel and it's like it's so much more than just, like you know, we have like these specific topics in mind, but I think it's really the approach that is important.
01:36:47.085 -->
01:36:50.649It's like the willingness to just have these conversations.
01:36:50.908 -->
01:36:53.551Sorry, I didn't want to cut you off but I like can't agree more.
01:36:53.551 -->
01:37:15.565I mean I'm going to come back to this because really, like the reason I started dollcast with you all is that 2023 public religion research institute survey that literally says that decline for lgbt rights trans rights in that included in that especially among republican, young republicans aged 18 to 29 is dropping like for the first time.
01:37:15.565 -->
01:37:22.287It's dropping and it's like I think it's just it's because of those insensational stories proliferating on the internet.
01:37:22.287 -->
01:37:33.570I mean Isla Bryson, chloe Cole, detransitioner I mean they're like all these stories that are just painting trans people in a negative light and I want us to change that narrative.
01:37:33.993 -->
01:37:50.998Like I think with Dollcast we're actually actually we're actually like amplifying something that's real and relatable to so many people and breaks those stereotypes that are otherwise like out on the internet floating around and we're actually having conversations that are going to help people have real understanding.
01:37:50.998 -->
01:38:01.905It's like we need a show that just gives that like light to everyday trans people living normal lives and not only just living normal lives, like flourishing in their identities.
01:38:01.905 -->
01:38:08.087I mean I see all of us are doing well we have jobs, we have like homes, like we're doing real life.
01:38:08.087 -->
01:38:09.774We're integrated and like.
01:38:09.774 -->
01:38:17.918That's been my story and I just want to see us continue to elevate more stories like that that show the positives that can actually come out of transition.
01:38:17.918 -->
01:38:23.496When, like yeah, our world is just like full of despair right now, we need to like sprinkle on some hope.
01:38:24.578 -->
01:38:25.802I love that so much.
01:38:25.802 -->
01:38:33.760Okay, something else I really wanted to do, and maybe this is a little bit email, but I, I, really I.
01:38:33.760 -->
01:38:41.390I think one of the hardest, most toxic aspects of the trans community is the way it takes its turn devouring everyone.
01:38:41.390 -->
01:38:45.466Kelly, the way you've been treated by the trans community really upsets me.
01:38:45.466 -->
01:38:58.837Just being 100% real with you, I think you are a very sweet young woman who really has a talent for saying things in a way that's a little provocative and really gets your attention and really starts a conversation.
01:38:58.837 -->
01:39:00.140I love that about you.
01:39:00.743 -->
01:39:10.265I have always loved you, and to see like the way the community has made a mission to hurt you, it's not what I want to build together.
01:39:10.324 -->
01:39:46.626So I feel like one of the ways I can help be a leader is to just model something different where, if you were looking for a real community of trans women that are like you, that are just interested in meaningful friendships, where we can talk like you can have your back and we can have fun conversations about fashion, like we're about to in the next topic or talk about like Kelly, you and I had a discussion on the phone the other day about your boyfriend and my husband and like what it's like being in a relationship with a cis guy.
01:39:46.626 -->
01:40:14.277I think other trans women out there desperately want these real relationships in their life and I think it's hard because the trans community has taught all of us to be so suspicious and scared of each other and I think there's just a real need for us to have something positive out here where we can love one another and respect each other and find real meaning in those friendships.
01:40:15.319 -->
01:40:29.761Yeah, I think a huge reason that we're not hitting on I mean, at least for me, is like I kind of just wanted to start a podcast just to like have something to do every week and just like create like friendships with other trans women and just because that's not something I had really ever like had before.
01:40:29.761 -->
01:40:44.645Um, especially with how like I mean I know you say like you don't like the way the community treated me, but honestly, some of it was deserved, because I mean, maybe not recently, but like back like a year ago, I feel like I was pretty brutal with like the things I would say and the conservative takes I would have like they were very extremist.
01:40:44.645 -->
01:40:48.277Um, but I, yeah, I really just kind of.
01:40:48.277 -->
01:40:58.945I mean maybe it's not how it started out, but I feel like now a huge piece of this, a huge reason why I like to do it, it's just I like talking with you guys every week and just like having something to look forward to.
01:40:59.487 -->
01:41:07.802I love that, yeah, and I feel like we can show how to politely disagree and respect each other and not let that cause bridges.
01:41:07.802 -->
01:41:11.978And, kelly, especially for you, show like what forgiveness.
01:41:11.978 -->
01:41:26.367And just like starting fresh and like like I don't care at all about any of that past stuff that you're talking about, like I see you and I'm like you're awesome, you're really cool and I want to see more trans women like you stepping up and that's all I care about.
01:41:26.448 -->
01:41:40.847Like, and I love talking to you all on a weekly basis I can't think of any other project I do, where I look forward to our team meetings and I feel better after the team meetings, like I love this same, oh awesome.
01:41:40.887 -->
01:41:42.036So how do we feel like the?
01:41:42.076 -->
01:41:42.697launch went.
01:41:42.697 -->
01:41:44.782The reaction was pretty positive on twitter.
01:41:44.782 -->
01:41:53.006I think the um, I think the reaction on tiktok was good, um, and I think you know it's one of those things where we are.
01:41:53.006 -->
01:41:57.885We are committed to this for the long run and, uh, I, I, this is good stuff.
01:41:57.885 -->
01:41:59.007We're going to build an audience.
01:41:59.007 -->
01:42:12.104I can't wait to launch the Discord and get people there, and I've launched a lot of different social media projects for companies and politicians and other entities and our first day metrics were extremely good.
01:42:12.104 -->
01:42:14.203So I think there's clearly an audience here.
01:42:14.916 -->
01:42:18.144Do we want to talk about some of the haters on Twitter?
01:42:18.144 -->
01:42:20.980From the launch, we could, we should.
01:42:20.980 -->
01:42:21.717I think you should.
01:42:21.717 -->
01:42:22.641Okay, let's do it.
01:42:22.641 -->
01:42:24.099I mean, there was the Brit cast too.
01:42:24.099 -->
01:42:25.845I think that was probably the biggest one, right?
01:42:25.845 -->
01:42:27.956What do you?
01:42:27.996 -->
01:42:29.378got Four likes.
01:42:29.378 -->
01:42:32.546I don't know.
01:42:32.787 -->
01:42:35.796Yeah, I don't know A lot of people like I don't know.
01:42:35.796 -->
01:42:47.926They were really mad that I feel like just that they didn't like seeing like such a diverse group of trans women being together, just because I feel like we're all kind of from like different lanes and it was bizarre to them that all of us were even doing a podcast together.
01:42:47.926 -->
01:43:00.484But then I just think it's so typical of the trans community to immediately just go for looks and be like, oh, you're all bricks and it's just so funny, like I don't know looks and it'd be like, oh, you're all bricks and it's just so funny, like I don't know.
01:43:00.484 -->
01:43:00.805It makes me sad.
01:43:00.805 -->
01:43:04.823It's kind of like what we were just talking about with how the trans community is just so mean to each other for absolutely no reason.
01:43:04.823 -->
01:43:07.094Um, but that's how cis women are too right.
01:43:07.094 -->
01:43:11.844Everything is so high school all the time right, hey, diversity is our strength.
01:43:12.204 -->
01:43:22.404That's what I think, and like and I see it too like we all bring something here and like bricks is such a cope to me, like I don't, I don't know where that comes from, but it's like.
01:43:22.404 -->
01:43:27.658I mean no, I do, but it's like really Like that's the worst, I mean that's not that bad.
01:43:27.658 -->
01:43:32.479Like it just kind of bounces off of me Cause it's like doesn't matter, I'll step out and I'm a woman.
01:43:32.479 -->
01:43:35.207Anywhere I go, it doesn't matter, it I go, it doesn't matter.
01:43:35.207 -->
01:43:35.447It's like.
01:43:35.447 -->
01:43:37.349So I don't know, bricks just didn't really phase me.
01:43:37.668 -->
01:43:44.220I love that their attack of me is to literally drag up a picture of me from like 15 years ago.
01:43:44.220 -->
01:43:48.479It's like do you have any idea how much plastic surgery I've had between now and then?
01:43:48.479 -->
01:43:50.534Like, come on, like, do you want to tell me a little?
01:43:50.534 -->
01:43:56.569Yeah, it's like attack me with what I look like today.
01:43:56.590 -->
01:44:02.645Like come on but it's like, even if you didn't, though, it's like I just first of all, you didn't look bad before plastic surgery at all.
01:44:02.645 -->
01:44:07.112It's just I don't understand what is with going for the appearance all the time.
01:44:07.112 -->
01:44:17.444I think it's because just we, as trans women, know how insecure it can make us, just like we've all dealt with that, especially at the beginning of our transition, and just with the way the beauty standard is for women in general.
01:44:17.444 -->
01:44:18.747It's just I don't know.
01:44:18.747 -->
01:44:22.430It makes me so sad that that is the go-to every time.
01:44:22.430 -->
01:44:26.103But I get it though, because it's they know where it's going to hit us in the heart.
01:44:26.103 -->
01:44:39.969And it's kind of like um Taff was saying it's interesting how we all react so differently to criticism because like, whereas me, I feel like I get really triggered and like really in my emotions, whereas Brie you kind of seem like in the middle and then, like tap, just kind of makes a joke out of it.
01:44:41.617 -->
01:44:42.417I love tap's response.
01:44:43.038 -->
01:44:44.662Yeah, that was funny.
01:44:44.662 -->
01:44:45.524I love that.
01:44:45.524 -->
01:44:47.729Yeah, I thought it was funny too.
01:44:47.729 -->
01:45:07.253I definitely have like, if you're going to critique my response, I definitely tend to be like a little, maybe too self effacing, where I will like totally play into it and be like haha, yeah, like here's like my worst photo, like you can call me a brick, whatever.
01:45:11.694 -->
01:45:21.743So I think for me, it's always like it's always a matter of also trying to assert myself and also like draw those boundaries and to be like you know, yeah, I'll joke about it, but at the end of the day, like I want to be able to like defend people that I care about.
01:45:21.743 -->
01:45:29.141And yeah, and I think having that standard is really important and it's like but we're talking about why we're starting dollcast.
01:45:29.141 -->
01:45:39.976Like I felt like when I was being, you know, kind of conservative online, I was like playing into a certain vision of me, of conservative online.
01:45:39.976 -->
01:45:41.722I was like playing into a certain vision of me, and I say this over and over.
01:45:41.722 -->
01:45:57.905But that happens so often when trans people want to critique, critique the sort of trans activist narrative, they end up just end up just playing into a different narrative, and so, yeah, I think it's important to like stand up for yourself at the end of the day, and and so I'm also working on that.
01:45:57.966 -->
01:46:00.890Yes, tap, yep, all right.
01:46:00.890 -->
01:46:03.904So I think is that a good segue, that's good.
01:46:03.904 -->
01:46:04.947Stay tuned.
01:46:05.395 -->
01:46:18.210Come join our community If you're tired of all the toxic trans politics, if you just want to hang out, if you just want to talk fashion like our next segment is going to be about like come join our Discord, come hang out with us.
01:46:18.270 -->
01:46:35.497We would love to have you and I will say to close out that, like last topic, I'll just say like I think the most rewarding part for me was just seeing all the comments from viewers that like felt seen and understood by what we were doing, like on board with our mission of like showing normal trans women.
01:46:35.497 -->
01:46:53.101It's like everyone agrees this is sorely needed, and seeing those comments just like oh, warm my heart so much, way more than any of the haters or any of the negative comments so there was way more positivity, which honestly we probably should have focused on more when we were talking.
01:46:53.122 -->
01:46:57.583it's more fun to talk about the negativity, but, yeah, no, it was overwhelmingly positive.
01:46:57.583 -->
01:47:09.385But I think that's because there's so many people who really do like feel the same way and there's just no one out there willing to say what they're thinking, and so having someone to do that, it's really valuable.
01:47:09.956 -->
01:47:13.841It takes a lot of bravery to break the toxic spiral and try to build something new.
01:47:13.841 -->
01:47:21.341And that's it's so interesting because, like at the end of my career, I don't want to be known for gamergate.
01:47:21.341 -->
01:47:26.521What I want to be known for is someone that helped set the trans community on a healthier direction.
01:47:26.521 -->
01:47:46.654And I'm not telling you that everything I do is perfect or well thought out, like I shoot my mouth off all the time and make mistakes, but I think I really think this is an important mission and I don't see anyone out there trying to do it, and I'm really honored going in with the three of you and I just I don't know I was.
01:47:46.654 -->
01:47:50.221I was so honored when I asked all of you to do this and you said yes.
01:47:50.442 -->
01:47:53.506So All right, we're getting sappy, let's keep going.
01:47:53.506 -->
01:47:56.461Sorry, I'm crying of happiness.
01:47:56.461 -->
01:47:59.238Ok, all right.
01:47:59.238 -->
01:48:00.804So now we're going to segue into.
01:48:00.804 -->
01:48:05.403Now for something a little more lighthearted but equally important fashion.
01:48:05.403 -->
01:48:12.185We all know the thrill and the struggle of finding clothes that make us feel confident and beautiful.
01:48:12.185 -->
01:48:18.506We'll chat about our favorite brands, shopping strategies and the fashion styles that make us feel our best.
01:48:18.506 -->
01:48:24.286From online deals to in-person treasure hunts, let's dish on all things wardrobe.
01:48:24.286 -->
01:48:26.195Who wants to go first?
01:48:27.939 -->
01:48:29.962This is your topic, Taff.
01:48:30.042 -->
01:48:41.300I want to have more, just like I don't know personal, casual conversations about fashion or just any topic that isn't like super serious, um.
01:48:41.300 -->
01:48:44.050So, yeah, I want to like hear about people's perspectives.
01:48:44.050 -->
01:48:50.185For me, I think fashion is like such an indicator of what people care about.
01:48:50.185 -->
01:49:23.382Like, for me, I, um I've gone on like a crusade recently where, like I feel so frustrated with clothes getting like stained or like damaged in the wash and so I feel like I've just like bought so many expensive pieces and then like mess them up and I feel like it's like so important that things are like utilitarian for me and functional, um, and at the same time, like I want them to be beautiful, and that's like a huge tension.
01:49:23.382 -->
01:49:39.608But like, yeah, I don't know, I just I would love to hear people's perspectives and ideas, things that they've bought recently, fashion that they've seen in the world, and they're like oh, this is cool, yeah, anything that they've seen in the world, and they're like oh, this is cool.
01:49:39.627 -->
01:49:40.515Um, yeah, anything I think like.
01:49:40.515 -->
01:49:45.207One of the things I do is, I think like body conscious stuff tends to look good on me.
01:49:45.207 -->
01:49:47.739Um, there's a brand called wolford.
01:49:47.739 -->
01:49:49.404I really really like everything.
01:49:49.404 -->
01:49:56.184They're super expensive, like it's a top and it'll be a 200 top or a jacket that would be dollars.
01:49:56.184 -->
01:50:01.019So it's really really well made and will last you like years and years and years and years.
01:50:01.019 -->
01:50:03.264So that tends to be my thing.
01:50:03.264 -->
01:50:10.605But I also really really love like going and taking a saturday and like going and finding like a really nice like.
01:50:11.087 -->
01:50:13.859Um, I got a skirt over at kate's faith the other day.
01:50:13.859 -->
01:50:15.002That's like this wool.
01:50:15.002 -->
01:50:17.555It's kind of a mini skirt you can wear with tights.
01:50:17.555 -->
01:50:20.983It's this wool checker pattern on it, but it's just gorgeous.
01:50:20.983 -->
01:50:23.146It looks 10 out 10 styles I don't know.
01:50:23.146 -->
01:50:35.756Um, I think the other thing is sometimes like, if you're not really fashionable, um, my friend christina taught me this you can literally just go to nordstrom and fork over your credit card and be like I don't understand this stuff.
01:50:35.756 -->
01:50:37.099Can you help me get started?
01:50:37.099 -->
01:50:48.747And they will sit there and spend an entire saturday with you like, helping you like figure out what is a good, like you know what looks good on you, so that's kind of my approach I had no idea they did that.
01:50:49.637 -->
01:50:51.261Oh yeah, that's great.
01:50:51.301 -->
01:50:57.945I know I want to go use that can I just say it's also super, super good.
01:50:57.945 -->
01:51:00.430Um, like it's, it's, it's.
01:51:00.430 -->
01:51:04.199It shows you like it's not just like the picture on a model.
01:51:04.199 -->
01:51:10.904They will actually have someone like hold it up so you can kind of figure out the cut of it if it's gonna look good on you, if that makes sense, do you guys?
01:51:10.925 -->
01:51:15.922ever get like stressed about where you show up, because I definitely get this.
01:51:15.922 -->
01:51:18.067We're like like, is this a good store?
01:51:18.067 -->
01:51:31.921It's like very hard for me to know and I feel like fashion is like so ruled by all of these like little, these little like biases and judgments that I'm like sort of not privy to, and okay.
01:51:31.921 -->
01:51:43.064So here's an example Um, there's this like trend on TikTok that got really big a while back and I think it was called like quiet luxury.
01:51:43.064 -->
01:51:50.966But basically there's like a reaction and you know, reaction to the reaction that's like constantly happening in the fashion world.
01:51:51.836 -->
01:52:03.341And I think that what we saw was like a lot of people, especially during like COVID times, they got like the stimulus check and they're like all right, I got a little money, I'd like to spend it on something.
01:52:03.341 -->
01:52:13.087And people are like getting these items that were like luxury brands and they were like sort of ostentatious and they had big like logos and stuff.
01:52:13.087 -->
01:52:47.685And a lot of people had that experience, that experience and then also had the very you know simultaneous experience which is like, oh wait, this is like no longer or this is not a status symbol in the way that I thought it was, and the clothing pieces to really end up being status symbols are the ones that signal to like important and well, you know, informed people that you like know what you're doing and you have lots of money and aren't signaling just like to anyone.
01:52:47.685 -->
01:53:01.076And so there was this term that like became popular, of like, quiet, luxury, these items which are really expensive but you wouldn't necessarily know they're expensive, and so that is like the perfect indicator.
01:53:01.095 -->
01:53:18.966I mean like a coach bag or like some, some, you know, imagine like a laura kiana, like unbranded, just like cable knit sweater that, like someone who knows fashion, can take like one look at, like the stitching or the seam, and they can like recognize it and be like, oh, that's that.
01:53:19.006 -->
01:53:24.587Or they can see, like you know, a tiny like faint symbol like just below the collar, and be like that's that.
01:53:24.587 -->
01:53:27.603It's not the kind of thing that most people would recognize.
01:53:27.603 -->
01:53:37.057The people who are in the know know that you just forked over like a ton of money for that and it's going to last you forever and that was like a great, you know fashion move.
01:53:37.057 -->
01:53:55.268And so I think that I and a lot of other people, when they get into fashion, they sort of realize that like quality is elusive and you can pay lots of money to get something that's sort of crappy but just shows you've paid a lot of money.
01:53:55.268 -->
01:54:01.679Or you can pay like a lot of money for something that's really quality and that's much harder to do.
01:54:01.679 -->
01:54:13.216And you know, maybe we'll signal to the right people that you know what you're doing, but I don't know what I'm doing like signaling to people, because I always think this is a trap.
01:54:13.376 -->
01:54:26.203I mean, I don't know, I think you know there's a certain kind of person out there that's very conscious about getting like photos taken with celebrities to like make the appearance of being important.
01:54:26.203 -->
01:54:31.787It just comes off like you're a joke to me, like if you're important, people are going to know you're important.
01:54:31.787 -->
01:54:34.548If you're well dressed, people are going to know you're well dressed.
01:54:34.548 -->
01:54:49.399If you're like like, I almost think it's kind of a trap and rather than like focusing on the appearance of being put together, just be put together like I don't know the thing about status symbols is they're hard to fake.
01:54:49.798 -->
01:55:03.525So, like, if you're in a community that it really is like very poor and you get like a gucci belt, that's a hard status symbol to fake in a certain community because it means you've somehow gotten your hands on money and people are going to be surprised.
01:55:03.525 -->
01:55:15.233But if you move up a little bit in like the socioeconomic ladder, suddenly, like a Gucci belt is not a status symbol, is a symbol that you're like bad with money and you pretty like quickly realize that.
01:55:15.233 -->
01:55:23.038If you have that experience, what I think happens with like some status symbols is especially in fashion.
01:55:23.038 -->
01:55:28.269They're valuable because you can't just like go and replicate them.
01:55:28.269 -->
01:55:46.189Like if you have a piece that like you can only get like a trunk show in milan, that indicates that like you actually know people and like you've been to something and that's, and so that's one thing.
01:55:46.189 -->
01:55:52.220The other thing is that you can indicate you just have like good artistic right.
01:55:52.260 -->
01:55:56.467So like this, I think for me, I have lots of clothing pieces.
01:55:56.467 -->
01:55:58.541This, like you know, this maybe costs like 15 or something.
01:55:58.541 -->
01:55:59.043Like I got it on amazon.
01:55:59.043 -->
01:55:59.667I have lots of clothing pieces.
01:55:59.667 -->
01:56:00.912This maybe costs like $15 or something.
01:56:00.912 -->
01:56:01.335I got it on Amazon.
01:56:01.335 -->
01:56:20.947I have lots of clothes off Amazon, but I get them because I have a very specific aesthetic that I'm trying to create and I think that when people see that I've put all of these pieces together and that I have a really coherent fashion identity, that's a signal.
01:56:21.287 -->
01:56:30.015That is, it's not about the cost of the pieces, it's about like taste, and so it's not at all about like price, necessarily.
01:56:30.015 -->
01:56:38.021It's so many other things and I do think that, like you are, at the end of the day, what fashion is about is expressing yourself.
01:56:38.021 -->
01:56:49.572Yes and yeah, I think it's about expressing, like, your best qualities, and maybe that's the fact that you like know someone who got you like invited somewhere, and people are gonna be like who do you know?
01:56:49.572 -->
01:56:50.456Like how do you know them?
01:56:50.456 -->
01:56:52.725And then you can brag about your fancy career or whatever.
01:56:52.725 -->
01:56:57.404Or maybe it's just like your ability to read aesthetics and make good choices.
01:56:57.945 -->
01:57:04.543Um, yeah, that's sort of my perspective you're so thought out on, like the status.
01:57:04.543 -->
01:57:11.048I'm like I was like whoa, she knows she's thinking about this a lot of deep thought.
01:57:11.551 -->
01:57:29.300I just like think about it way too much so yeah, like I'm such a comfort girl, like I like I respect that, yeah, like I mean I'm a little bit lazy but I'm just like I like comfort, I do like I do care about aesthetic too, but it's like very much contingent on like who am I seeing that day?
01:57:29.300 -->
01:57:37.462Where am I going, like, what am I doing in my day that I want to dress for or like orient my clothing style so that I'm most comfortable?
01:57:37.462 -->
01:57:39.326Honestly, that's kind of a flex.
01:57:39.606 -->
01:57:45.877I think, oh, really yeah, because if you're gorgeous you don't need to super dress up.
01:57:45.877 -->
01:57:46.680So I think that's cool.
01:57:48.916 -->
01:57:53.661Well, I didn't even mean it that way, but that's great, that's true, I'm thinking that's a real flex.
01:57:55.498 -->
01:57:57.438Your hair is straight, you don't have to curl it.
01:57:57.438 -->
01:57:58.863You still have 10 out of 10.
01:57:58.863 -->
01:58:01.256You just your hair is straight.
01:58:01.296 -->
01:58:02.038You don't have to curl it.
01:58:02.038 -->
01:58:03.382You still have 10 out of 10.
01:58:03.382 -->
01:58:04.326You just have a top on.
01:58:04.326 -->
01:58:06.872Today I have like two layers of foundation, or you'd see my blushing right now.
01:58:06.894 -->
01:58:08.417Your natural blush looks so beautiful.
01:58:08.417 -->
01:58:10.882I hate that you get down on yourself for that.
01:58:11.023 -->
01:58:22.601Yeah, seriously, well I mean, yeah, I guess I don't know, I feel like I get really self-conscious because, like whenever I'm laughing or like somebody says something and I'm like, oh, that's so sweet.
01:58:22.601 -->
01:58:25.362But then it just goes to my head and then I blush like crazy.
01:58:25.362 -->
01:58:30.480Oh, I just can't help but get self-conscious just because it's like puffy red cheeks.
01:58:30.480 -->
01:58:32.381You shouldn't, I don't know.
01:58:32.381 -->
01:58:36.675But yeah, I mean I'm just really a convenience.
01:58:36.675 -->
01:58:38.359But comfort shopper.
01:58:38.359 -->
01:58:39.725I do have my stores.
01:58:39.725 -->
01:58:42.302I like my favorite would probably be Francesca's.
01:58:42.302 -->
01:58:45.082I love the Lacey.
01:58:45.082 -->
01:58:46.024Oh, you don't know.
01:58:46.024 -->
01:58:47.219Oh yeah, they're just like.
01:58:47.219 -->
01:58:54.597I mean they're sort of like their ideal demographic is women, probably in their like.
01:58:54.597 -->
01:58:59.479I mean really it could be teens all the way up to like upper 30s, 40s-ish.
01:58:59.479 -->
01:59:01.244I wouldn't go like much past that.
01:59:01.244 -->
01:59:12.707But it's very like cutesy, like lacy and just very feminine aesthetics and I've like always like when I find a piece that works for me, there it's, I have to buy it.
01:59:12.707 -->
01:59:14.435Like there's just like no way you're going to buy it.
01:59:17.671 -->
01:59:22.195You should look into Lace Maid it lace made.
01:59:22.195 -->
01:59:50.655It's like sort of like that, where it's like very cute, feminine, like pretty um, but like okay, I have like so much more to talk about, especially with like aging out of certain fashions, because you're talking about this like age ranges, and I noticed like a few years ago that I started looking like a lot older, um, like I aged up with my like teenage face right, and so I was like, oh my god, in 15 years I'm gonna look like, you know, a mom or whatever, and I can't be like dressing in like thigh high socks and like skirts for the rest of my life.
01:59:50.655 -->
01:59:58.363I have to actually like put together a cohesive aesthetic that's going to last um, so, yeah, that definitely like is in the back of my mind.
01:59:59.185 -->
02:00:02.375Right, yeah, no, that's like extremely true.
02:00:02.375 -->
02:00:08.987And like I mean, honestly, most of my clothes, like I guess this is kind of like a bad habit from COVID.
02:00:08.987 -->
02:00:18.844I don't know, maybe it's bad, maybe it's not, but like I used to get really shy about like going out and not really knowing like how to pick what worked for my body type.
02:00:18.844 -->
02:00:19.994Yes, yeah.
02:00:19.994 -->
02:00:27.585And so like I mean this is where having my partner really came in in candy and clutch because I could get her opinion and be like, what do you think about this?
02:00:27.585 -->
02:00:37.078What do you think about this dress Like, but I found like patterns of what worked for my body type which like originally, well, this was before I had boobs, so I had to be more.
02:00:37.139 -->
02:00:43.560Like Tuesday, yeah, yeah, was before I had boobs, so I had to be more like twosies strategic, yeah, yeah.
02:00:43.560 -->
02:00:58.868And it was like halter neck, halter neck dresses because I'm taller and it like just accented the collarbone and the cheeks and it just really makes it stand out and it pops and it's like and it draws attention away from those like less flattering areas in the mid region, and so like I found that out.
02:00:58.868 -->
02:01:16.779But then, like after I got my boob job and I was like, okay, I got some assets, now I got girls, I can work with this and I was like low-cut, a-line, it rocks, like it looks, yeah, it slays like I just so that's my go-to now and like I think y'all saw like that was like my pfp, it was so gorgeous.
02:01:17.079 -->
02:01:20.567Yeah, like yes, I just, yeah, I'm like glowing in it.
02:01:20.567 -->
02:01:30.597I just I love the low-cut stuff now and then that's like one of my favorite things about like going through this process of transition is like each stage it's like there's something I can look forward to and be happy with.
02:01:30.597 -->
02:01:40.622And then, like now that I've gone through that last stage of the breast augmentation, I'm like, yeah, I'm so happy, like I can wear anything and I like feel so beautiful and I love it.
02:01:40.622 -->
02:01:49.083But my go-to is sweats and like and um, oh god, uh, what's?
02:01:49.083 -->
02:01:51.368Uh, hoodies, like literally sweats and hoodies.
02:01:51.368 -->
02:01:53.317I dress like Billie Eilish all the time.
02:01:53.377 -->
02:02:07.801Oh, my god, yeah, so something I'm super jealous about with this guy in Utah is both of y'all can pull off like that lace, like very feminine look, and for me, like when I look at I've tried that stuff it just doesn't look good.
02:02:07.801 -->
02:02:17.127I have to look like very structured, like color blocks look really good on me, like classic, like fashion, especially if it's fitted like fashion, especially if it's fitted.
02:02:17.127 -->
02:02:18.628That looks good on me.
02:02:18.628 -->
02:02:31.902But just for whatever reason I don't know if it's my personality or that manager energy that you were talking about like it's just, I don't know.
02:02:31.902 -->
02:02:33.006It doesn't work on me and it never has.
02:02:33.025 -->
02:02:34.369I think like your personality reflects what fashion works for you.
02:02:34.369 -->
02:02:54.635I think there's like sharp personalities, like sharp fashions, and then there's like soft personalities and soft fashions and I've like alternated between both, but I definitely think there's like a there's so much power and like a sharp, like slick black dress and like straight hair, and I feel like you like lean into that.
02:02:54.635 -->
02:03:11.885Rihanna and you like do really well, um, but it's like okay, I don't know if you've also experienced this, but like sometimes I would prefer to dress like even more like feminine and like sort of like lacy and like girlish, but I'm like I don't know like totally what's my body.
02:03:11.885 -->
02:03:17.502So I've had to like negotiate with myself where I wear like feminine.
02:03:17.502 -->
02:03:22.917You sort of like I really lean into like the pretty, I think aesthetic, like I've got these.
02:03:22.917 -->
02:03:25.425Like you know, I've got these like butterfly earrings.
02:03:25.465 -->
02:03:26.086I love your earrings.
02:03:27.435 -->
02:03:55.582They're so pretty and I this is like in my mind I sort of think that I've got this style that I sometimes lean into, which is like pretty and slightly quirky, like elementary school teacher, where I'll wear like fruit earrings or like sort of like patterned dresses, cause I just think that they're like pretty undeniably feminine, but also not like you know, they're not like Lolita or something.
02:03:55.582 -->
02:04:09.082You're striking that balance Exactly Like they work for, like if you're like a tall woman who like sort of looks a little bit older than he actually is, perfect kelly.
02:04:09.122 -->
02:04:09.864What do you think?
02:04:09.864 -->
02:04:11.127How do you know?
02:04:12.229 -->
02:04:13.431it's just like I don't know.
02:04:13.431 -->
02:04:23.412For me I don't really feel like I think about it as much as you guys do like I just first of all, I'm like cheap as shit, like I you're like I get my shit on amazon.
02:04:23.412 -->
02:04:28.563I'm like girl, I look at the prices on amazon and I'm like, fuck, I am not paying like 25 for a pair of leggings.
02:04:28.643 -->
02:04:37.600It's the same thing, though on like tv, amazon just gets it to you faster, but it's literally the same thing I, I don't know.
02:04:37.621 -->
02:04:39.525I just I'm a notorious shin shopper.
02:04:39.525 -->
02:04:45.145I think I got in the habit of it, um, when I started my OF, just because it was really cheap clothing.
02:04:45.145 -->
02:04:48.261So I was like, the cheaper I can get, the more profit I'll make.
02:04:48.261 -->
02:04:51.313Um, and then my entire closet just turned into shin stuff.
02:04:51.313 -->
02:04:57.777I literally have bags of clothes in the attic on the side of me that are like old stuff from shin that I just will never touch again.
02:04:57.777 -->
02:04:58.960Um, but I really can't.
02:04:58.960 -->
02:05:00.923I can't throw it out, though for some reason it like.
02:05:00.923 -->
02:05:03.337For some reason, throwing it away just like gives me anxiety.
02:05:03.859 -->
02:05:06.952But like, I don't know, I wear like pajama pants all the time.
02:05:06.952 -->
02:05:11.988If it's from shin, it's from walmart or target, um, and I'll just like wear like pj bottoms.
02:05:11.988 -->
02:05:13.676Then I'll put on like a like I don't know.
02:05:13.676 -->
02:05:24.715I like like black little like crop tops that cover my belly a little bit, but yeah, it's not like super crop, but like, just like something that's like a, you know, like a tank top, and then just like some tight pants or jeans.
02:05:24.715 -->
02:05:31.573Or I like like leggings, black leggings or or, yeah, tight pj bottoms, it, yeah, I don't know.
02:05:31.573 -->
02:05:41.123And I like like sweatshirts, like I like oversized sweatshirts or like things like this that my shoulder and like kind of like make it so that my really long arms like it.
02:05:41.123 -->
02:05:43.469Just I like it when my hands are covered like Ariana Grande style.
02:05:43.469 -->
02:05:45.880Um, it's cute.
02:05:45.979 -->
02:05:58.261Yeah, I went through like a really weird phase in like um, like freshman year of college, like during like the thank you next sweetener era, where Ariana Grande was doing like thigh high boots and then like oversized hoodies with like really short shorts on, so it looked like you were pants.
02:05:58.261 -->
02:06:04.219That was like the one time like I was like, oh, I am gonna mimic this style because I want to feel like ariana grande.
02:06:04.219 -->
02:06:13.779Um, so I bought like three different pairs of thigh high boots and like different colors and like a ton of different oversized hoodies, um, and I mimicked that for like a year because, like I was so obsessed with her in that era.
02:06:13.779 -->
02:06:22.070Um, but other than that, it's literally just like anything oversized like on top of me and then like tight bottoms or, if in the summer, like short shorts.
02:06:22.070 -->
02:06:23.619But it's always cheap as shit.
02:06:24.074 -->
02:06:32.448Always cheap as shit for me Well, okay, I was going to ask about tucking, but of course that's like not a problem for you, because I thought it was a nightmare.
02:06:32.448 -->
02:06:32.993Oh, yeah.
02:06:32.993 -->
02:06:36.305Oh so bad.
02:06:36.305 -->
02:06:37.418And I had this one.
02:06:37.418 -->
02:06:40.676Be like why don't you just wear leggings and I'm leggings?
02:06:40.676 -->
02:06:40.978Oh so bad.
02:06:40.978 -->
02:06:41.699Yeah, and I had this one.
02:06:41.699 -->
02:06:43.286Be like why don't you just wear leggings and I'm like, girl, like it's painful.
02:06:43.305 -->
02:06:44.650Do we finally have this conversation?
02:06:44.650 -->
02:06:45.875I've never had this conversation.
02:06:45.875 -->
02:06:50.846This is the worst part of transition before you get vaginoplasty.
02:06:50.846 -->
02:06:51.247It's awful.
02:06:52.738 -->
02:06:57.257Everyone always acts like it's not painful for them, and I was like why am I the only one it's painful for?
02:06:57.520 -->
02:07:03.277like it just slips out a little and you're like crushing it, you're like dying yeah.
02:07:03.537 -->
02:07:04.975So there's like no good way to do it.
02:07:04.975 -->
02:07:06.734Then it wasn't just me, like it's just always.
02:07:07.658 -->
02:07:16.582No, well, okay, I think if you like literally tape it, you'll be okay, but it's like I'm not gonna tape it like every time, so you didn't sweat out of it.
02:07:16.582 -->
02:07:22.219I would sweat off the table even with a time.
02:07:22.238 -->
02:07:23.862Yeah, even in the winter, I would sweat out of it.
02:07:23.862 -->
02:07:24.503Oh god, that's brutal.
02:07:24.503 -->
02:07:26.367What about running or going to the gym?
02:07:26.367 -->
02:07:33.368That was the worst ever like because you're trying to like, you try tucking and then running 40 miles.
02:07:33.667 -->
02:07:37.564That's a challenge like I've never had these problems.
02:07:37.564 -->
02:07:38.728Oh, my god, I'm so lucky I don't have.
02:07:38.728 -->
02:07:39.550Like I've never had these problems.
02:07:39.550 -->
02:07:40.472I don't know, I don't have.
02:07:40.472 -->
02:07:42.436Like I think, just what's your?
02:07:42.497 -->
02:07:44.159strategy I don't have.
02:07:44.159 -->
02:07:46.784I don't have anything.
02:07:46.784 -->
02:07:47.506I just like.
02:07:47.506 -->
02:07:57.680I mean maybe I'm just like lucky, but like I mean I got my thongs, I got everything I need and I just snatch it up and I'm good, like I don't have any problems.
02:07:57.680 -->
02:08:01.939But I will say, when it comes to you, snatch it up.
02:08:01.960 -->
02:08:04.421There's so many invasive questions I want to ask you.
02:08:04.814 -->
02:08:05.698I know I need details.
02:08:05.698 -->
02:08:07.847How big is it?
02:08:07.970 -->
02:08:08.494What are we working on?
02:08:08.494 -->
02:08:10.199Why am I being put on the spot for this?
02:08:10.199 -->
02:08:11.664I was not anticipating this.
02:08:11.664 -->
02:08:14.721No, I didn't know it was such a problem.
02:08:14.721 -->
02:08:16.802I didn't know people had so much pain with this.
02:08:16.802 -->
02:08:21.421I thought it was just like you.
02:08:21.421 -->
02:08:24.118Just you compress and it's like I mean I don't have a problem.
02:08:25.804 -->
02:08:27.220Yeah, I like bikinis.
02:08:27.375 -->
02:08:29.498It's like not an issue for you and like a swimsuit.
02:08:30.314 -->
02:08:37.182So no, so that was what I was saying is the one thing that is tough is like I mean I've thought about doing the medical tape thing.
02:08:37.182 -->
02:08:42.368I, I mean, I've thought about doing the medical tape thing, I've tried it, it is fine, until you have to pee and then you have to do everything again.
02:08:42.368 -->
02:08:45.551So it's like not conducive for me.
02:08:46.015 -->
02:08:56.764So I, so I actually bought these shorts that like I mean I'm good with these swim shorts and like they're black and they just like hide the detail and you can't tell.
02:08:56.764 -->
02:09:10.154Like I mean I've worn these all the time and it's like it absolves me of the stress of tucking and at the same time, I, you know, nothing's really noticeable unless you have some like creepy pervert who's just like staring laser focused at you.
02:09:10.154 -->
02:09:13.061But I mean cis women wear shorts all the time swimming.
02:09:13.061 -->
02:09:15.346Like it's not like that crazy.
02:09:15.346 -->
02:09:18.761And these shorts like they block all the you know they.
02:09:18.761 -->
02:09:24.167They have like a layer on top of them that just like it's not a skirt but it's like fabric.
02:09:24.167 -->
02:09:37.364That just like again, it hides the detail and maybe I'm just lucky and I don't have that much to have to hide, but like I feel like you have a lot of material there to work with.
02:09:37.604 -->
02:09:45.063Or are we talking like what's the situation Just between us and the whole internet Just slinging?
02:09:45.063 -->
02:09:47.840I know I'm like yeah, just for everyone to know about.
02:09:47.899 -->
02:09:54.141Like gosh, no, you don't have to say it to you Like what do y'all mean by like what like?
02:09:54.141 -->
02:09:55.720What's the question here?
02:09:57.659 -->
02:10:08.438I walked in and dr bowers like just whipped it out and like no one had touched it in like many, many years, and she goes yep, you got enough material there.
02:10:08.738 -->
02:10:14.835And then she just walked off okay, and how much material do you need?
02:10:14.835 -->
02:10:17.886Did you need, by the way, I know what does this mean.
02:10:18.006 -->
02:10:28.087I guess I had enough for okay, okay, um, my strategy was like, yeah, it was less than average, but enough for everyone.
02:10:28.509 -->
02:10:35.239Yes, I am but like I had a little too, and even with a little, I still felt like it could be painful as shit if they got caught there.
02:10:35.239 -->
02:10:36.867So I'm just like, how are you not getting it?
02:10:36.867 -->
02:10:40.118Like, do you guys know what that sock method that was in the beginning?
02:10:40.118 -->
02:10:51.163Like kind of like early stages like 2014, where this was my early beginning, I guess, for transition, but people would make tutorials about cutting the top part of a sock dude.
02:10:51.163 -->
02:10:56.359I did that all throughout high school and the way it would get caught in between I would be like dying in class.
02:10:56.359 -->
02:10:59.206I'm like I gotta go to the bathroom where I'm literally going to pass the fuck out.
02:10:59.867 -->
02:11:00.268Oh no.
02:11:00.268 -->
02:11:05.806Have you ever had a tuck fail and had a girlfriend notice it?
02:11:05.806 -->
02:11:09.363That is the most embarrassing situation.
02:11:09.363 -->
02:11:10.265Oh my God.
02:11:10.265 -->
02:11:20.282I literally to this day have nightmares about my friend Abby that noticed this with me one time when we were like at the gym together and I just wanted to die.
02:11:20.282 -->
02:11:31.408I just literally wanted to die, and this is why it's so hard for me to understand why some trans girls don't want vaginoplasty, because it's like, at the very least, you don't have to deal with this problem.
02:11:31.429 -->
02:11:33.364That seems like a boss, also with skirts.
02:11:33.364 -->
02:11:36.603I didn't have to deal with this problem, so I found my own solution.
02:11:42.175 -->
02:11:44.780Maybe I'm just lucky that I don't have like that much to worry about.
02:11:44.780 -->
02:11:50.899I've never had these problems, like I've never been that stressed about anything falling out like I don't know.
02:11:50.899 -->
02:11:58.863It's just like I mean, but I I don't know, like I, I just have my ways and it's like mysterious.
02:11:59.064 -->
02:12:08.202Well, I will say, will say I also I'm not like, I'm not packing like a Magnum Dom and I think in some ways it's like worse, yeah, okay.
02:12:08.936 -->
02:12:10.341You were starting about your swimsuit.
02:12:10.341 -->
02:12:11.284What do you do?
02:12:12.518 -->
02:12:13.483Thank you for reminding me.
02:12:13.483 -->
02:12:14.828You're so helpful.
02:12:14.828 -->
02:12:18.623Yeah, so, because I'm not packing a Magnum Dom.
02:12:18.623 -->
02:12:28.865I'm in this weird in the middle between zone where, like, if it was bigger, I could probably just like pull it back and like it'd be big enough to like hold in like the balls and everything and it'd be great.
02:12:29.668 -->
02:12:51.423Um, unfortunately, the reality is that it's like not, and so the balls would slip out easily and so I really need like incredibly tight something down there or tape, and my solution with swimsuits is just to wear like well, okay, if I want to wear a bikini which I've done before black bikini, like you're saying, like black shorts and guys things.
02:12:51.423 -->
02:13:10.640Black number two is I have this sort of like mesh skirt thing that sort of like hangs across my hips and just like goes in front and that plus, like the black bikini, it's like it just hides it so much that like I don't even have to talk in that scenario.
02:13:10.640 -->
02:13:12.164So I've done that a few times.
02:13:12.164 -->
02:13:19.800Um, I wouldn't do it in like you know the RNC swimming pool, right, but um, it works for, like the local.
02:13:19.800 -->
02:13:26.765You know the RNC swimming pool, right, but it works for, like the local, you know, whatever, I think the episode title is just going to be packing a box of dolls.
02:13:28.314 -->
02:13:32.215I'm just going to edit the videos, it's just Taff saying that like 10 times.
02:13:32.255 -->
02:13:33.340Yeah, just over and over.
02:13:35.456 -->
02:13:38.305I remember going to the beach would give me like so much anxiety.
02:13:38.305 -->
02:13:46.060I went with my boyfriend's friends one time and this was like one of my first times meeting them, and it was like a group of them and we I wanted to wear a bikini at the beach.
02:13:46.060 -->
02:13:47.944I wanted to seem normal, Like cause.
02:13:47.944 -->
02:14:05.305Like you know, I never went to the beach, so I was like, oh, this is like my one opportunity to like, but it would like almost like push itself to the front, to the point where you have like a bump like there, and it was.
02:14:05.305 -->
02:14:14.398It did that at the beach and it was just so obvious and I was in front of like all these people and I felt like I had to like constantly run to the bathroom and like hide myself and it was.
02:14:14.398 -->
02:14:14.878I don't know.
02:14:14.918 -->
02:14:18.662I don't know it was awful, it's brutal, it's brutal, yeah.
02:14:18.662 -->
02:14:24.788So yeah, we all have these like strategies and, like Skylar you mentioned, like earlier, like something that would like hide the midsection.
02:14:24.788 -->
02:14:26.451That's another thing for me.
02:14:26.451 -->
02:14:37.720Like I always I opt for outfits that kind of like flare out at the waist yeah, hugely helpful, but I feel like it's such like okay.
02:14:37.720 -->
02:14:43.625So, like Kelly, you're talking about like leggings or like you know, small bottom, like big top.
02:14:43.625 -->
02:15:01.530I've always been like too nervous to do that, in part because I think it makes me look like my upper body is like oversized, and so I've always preferred like the flared bottom or like a big bottom, small top combo.
02:15:01.530 -->
02:15:11.162Um, but yeah, it's like it is such a cute style and I would like totally wear the big bottom, small top if I was like ariana grande size and also you know.
02:15:11.181 -->
02:15:14.235So I want to ask y'all about this how do y'all feel about heels?
02:15:14.235 -->
02:15:15.278Because I love heels.
02:15:15.278 -->
02:15:22.502I think they're so pretty, they're so gorgeous, but it's, at the same time, like my height is the last thing I ever want to emphasize.
02:15:22.502 -->
02:15:33.914I was just about to say that yeah, it's such a challenge to find shoes that are pretty and strappy, that don't make me look like an mpa player.
02:15:34.856 -->
02:15:38.664You know what I mean do you ever feel like there's never like cause?
02:15:38.664 -->
02:15:40.028That used to be my insecurity too.
02:15:40.028 -->
02:16:00.048It was like, oh, they're going to make me taller, but at the same time I feel like I never have an opportunity to like wear heels, unless it's like a specific, like major event, like anytime I'm like going out with my boyfriend's friends, like we're constantly like outside or like in the dirt, or I feel like, even if we're just going to the theater, I have to walk on grass and it's muddy and I don't want to fuck on my heels.
02:16:00.048 -->
02:16:07.425I have so many heels that I feel like I just never wear, not because I don't want to be tall, but just because I don't feel like they're ever functional for where I'm going half the time.
02:16:07.796 -->
02:16:08.382With my job.
02:16:08.382 -->
02:16:13.823I do all the rooms constantly, so it's always appropriate.
02:16:13.823 -->
02:16:18.582Yeah, I just don't wear them because I don't want to seem too tall.
02:16:18.582 -->
02:16:20.286I'm very self-conscious about that.
02:16:21.387 -->
02:16:22.270Yeah, I respect that.
02:16:22.270 -->
02:16:26.707I am totally the kind of person who will dress up or nothing.
02:16:26.707 -->
02:16:30.864I'll go to the grocery store in a really nice dress.
02:16:30.864 -->
02:16:32.260I just like doing that.
02:16:32.260 -->
02:16:33.559It makes me feel nice.
02:16:34.514 -->
02:16:44.542And so I'm also the kind of person who would totally wear heels just out, and I think for a long time I avoided heels for the exact reason that people are sort of talking about.
02:16:44.563 -->
02:17:04.847Like it just made me look taller, and I think I especially felt that way in college, like I liked being able to walk around the hallways of my college and like see men who are like taller than me and just like feel shorter than a man, which is like we've like talked about this before.
02:17:05.189 -->
02:17:17.481There's a very specific feeling of just being like mere and attractive guy who's like bigger than you, um, and I liked that experience of being able to sort of like ogle guys and feel like small next to them.
02:17:17.481 -->
02:17:33.102But ever since I, you know, got into like a committed relationship, I no longer like really do that, um, and I don't really feel like I need to look like, you know, desirable to a man.
02:17:33.102 -->
02:18:02.316And so heels are like this, like very, they're like moggers, they're like they just make you look like powerful and like pretty, and if you're like gorgeous and you're like super tall, it's like model status and I feel like that's really cool and not something that I feel like I need to shy away from anymore I I'm really like you taff, in the sense I enjoy dressing up, I love doing it like and part of it is like just with my job, like if I'm like my.
02:18:02.596 -->
02:18:13.845My job is zoom calls with important people all day long, where it's just not appropriate for me to talk to a member of congress in sweatpants right it's like it's appropriate.
02:18:14.246 -->
02:18:20.715But I find this is one of the real advantages, I think, to being trans that like this has been consistent.
02:18:20.895 -->
02:18:30.590Like 20s, 30s, 40s, I take so much enjoyment out of femininity and working with what I have.
02:18:30.590 -->
02:18:41.495Like you know, lauren southern came over to my house and like taught me how to do like fake eyelashes, and I like always do this every single day, wake up when doing makeup.
02:18:41.495 -->
02:18:56.782I take like an extra three minutes to do that because it just looks gorgeous and I don't know what I have found is, I think, for a lot of cis women when they, you know, get through 30s and 40s, I almost think like femininity is a gum that has lost its flavor for them.
02:18:56.782 -->
02:19:12.566And I still I will, I'm sure when I'm in my 50s, I will still really enjoy just being able to do this stuff that was forbidden to me for so long and I really appreciate the fact that I can look my best.
02:19:12.566 -->
02:19:15.995I mean, I take time to work out and watch my diet.
02:19:15.995 -->
02:19:19.119In a way, a lot of cis women don't, and I don't know.
02:19:19.119 -->
02:19:24.106I think there's some real beauty in still finding fun in this stuff like no matter what.
02:19:24.106 -->
02:19:25.191Does that make sense?
02:19:25.251 -->
02:19:25.972I I.
02:19:25.972 -->
02:19:28.743That really echoes with me because it's like I will.
02:19:28.743 -->
02:19:33.179I say I wear like sweats and hoodies all the time, but that's just when I'm working from home.
02:19:33.179 -->
02:19:37.879If I'm going on a call or I'm going in the office, I am doing exactly what you're doing, brie.
02:19:37.879 -->
02:19:41.970I'm taking advantage that I'm going to be seen and I'm picking out that outfit.
02:19:41.970 -->
02:19:45.726I'm picking that dress I really want to wear and I'm like and it's cute.
02:19:45.726 -->
02:19:47.111It might be like super cute.
02:19:47.111 -->
02:19:47.975It might be more formal.
02:19:47.975 -->
02:19:50.477If I'm giving a presentation, it's going to be more formal.
02:19:50.477 -->
02:19:53.402It just depends on what the day affords, but it's.
02:19:53.402 -->
02:20:01.837There's something fun now about doing that, like when I I was, when I was a guy back back, when it was like I didn't, I didn't want to dress up like that.
02:20:01.837 -->
02:20:11.201I was like oh, I have to wear a suit, okay, whatever, like there was no joy in it, exactly like we all share that.
02:20:11.201 -->
02:20:13.265And it's like now it's so fun.
02:20:13.265 -->
02:20:14.709I'm like oh, I'm gonna pick this dress.
02:20:14.709 -->
02:20:15.958Oh, I get to pull this one out.
02:20:15.997 -->
02:20:19.225It's cold outside now oh, uggs, but I love Uggs.
02:20:19.225 -->
02:20:20.387That's the one thing.
02:20:20.387 -->
02:20:26.441I don't really go with the heels because, well, I am just self conscious about my height and it's something I should be better about.
02:20:26.441 -->
02:20:30.300But, like again, comfort, I balance everything and I'll just.
02:20:30.300 -->
02:20:34.842I most often do the leggings with the Uggs and I just love that.
02:20:34.842 -->
02:20:35.994I love that feeling.
02:20:35.994 -->
02:20:38.019It's a cute combo.
02:20:38.019 -->
02:20:39.663It's like blankets for your feet.
02:20:39.663 -->
02:20:40.906How can you not love it?
02:20:43.395 -->
02:20:44.599Okay, so oh no, Go ahead, Kelly.
02:20:44.599 -->
02:20:45.701Yeah, I'll see you in a piece later.
02:20:45.721 -->
02:20:46.925I was just going to say.
02:20:46.925 -->
02:20:54.245I went through a phase in high school, when I was in the beginning of my transition, where I feel like I did try really hard to be overly feminine.
02:20:54.245 -->
02:20:58.949I would wear things that were heels or wedges, I would do like fake eyelashes every day.
02:20:58.949 -->
02:21:05.708This was when, also in 2015, 2016, when, like big makeup was in with like Kylie Jenner, jeffree star, james Charles, you know.
02:21:07.092 -->
02:21:20.676But I think, like, as I got older, like I've just been wearing less and less makeup and like, I guess, dressing less feminine by wearing just like leggings or sweats with like a small little top, because like I, and same with like my makeup.
02:21:20.676 -->
02:21:22.441You know, like I I don't even do mascara anymore.
02:21:22.441 -->
02:22:03.513I do like very minimal makeup every day, not because, like I don't enjoy doing eyelashes from time to time or like, um, like lipstick or like mascara, any of it, but I just, for some reason, I kind of feel like that's what people expect of like trans women, to like try to go out of their way, to be overly feminine, and I always just kind of want to blend in and seem normal, and so I guess, like in a weird way, I try to be like as subtle as I can be to almost like blend in and almost not seem trans totally, totally yeah, and I mean it's exactly what I was going to like talk about, which is like the motivations for dressing a certain way, like what are you trying to project?
02:22:03.995 -->
02:22:06.183Or like how do you want people to see you?
02:22:06.183 -->
02:22:18.120Like I asked one of my friends who knew me in high school what he thought of my fashion sense at that time and he said, like well, I just remember there were a lot of short skirts.
02:22:18.139 -->
02:22:53.254Like well, I just remember there were a lot of short skirts and I was like that's interesting, that that's what you remember, because my memory of high school was I want to look like really cute, so like, please, someone can hit on me, and I was like doing my makeup every day and I was like so like on that grind and it's because I wanted to seem like sexually appealing for people, which you know when you're a teenager, it's like inherently cringe and like you're all teenagers are bad at this and don't know what they're doing, and I was no exception.
02:22:53.514 -->
02:23:05.110But that was like the goal and I feel like now that I'm older and I'm not like trying to do that, I like just want to look pretty and like feel comfortable.
02:23:05.110 -->
02:23:27.320Yes, and the way I feel most comfortable is when I feel like I'm presenting myself in a way that's like feminine and pretty, and I don't care if people like find me sexually attractive, which is why, like I don't mind wearing heels, because if a guy sees me, I think he'll think, oh, she's pretty, but like maybe I wouldn't sleep with her because she's like so tall.
02:23:27.320 -->
02:23:29.509Fine, like that's totally cool with me.
02:23:29.509 -->
02:23:37.959And I definitely feel like my priorities have changed as I've gotten older, still into the feminine stuff, but like it's just different.
02:23:39.064 -->
02:23:41.715I I really enjoy looking put together.
02:23:41.715 -->
02:23:47.575It's not that I'm trying like I've been married for 16 years, I'm not trying to like attract someone.
02:23:47.575 -->
02:23:57.322It's that I, I just truly enjoy like like putting curl in my hair, like I take pleasure from going and getting a good manicure.
02:23:57.322 -->
02:24:04.066I love love finding like a cute bracelet, like going to a thrift shop and like looking through vintage stuff for them.
02:24:04.066 -->
02:24:14.748Like I just it's about expressing myself, and this is something I think men don't understand is these are cues that women pick up on.
02:24:14.748 -->
02:24:30.264So because, like, throughout my day, so much of it is like making a connection with people I can't tell you how many like professional connections I've gotten with someone by just talking to them about their nails and like like noticing or something about their outfit.
02:24:30.264 -->
02:24:38.345Like it's just I don't know it's, it's fundamentally who I am and it's not for anyone else.
02:24:38.345 -->
02:24:41.411I just this is the way I want to present myself to the world.
02:24:41.411 -->
02:24:42.939But just one more thing.
02:24:42.959 -->
02:24:55.063Like Taff, I thought so much about what you said in our last show about that feeling that you sometimes have when you like look in the mirror and you see yourself and you see like the boy version of yourself.
02:24:55.063 -->
02:25:09.368It's like you feel like you're in drag, like it took me so long to get over that and I feel like that is why I like was very resistant to learning a lot of stuff like advanced skills.
02:25:09.368 -->
02:25:20.888I kind of do contouring and stuff like that and I think like it's it's almost like you've got to lean into these things that cause you to like it's a little painful does that make sense?
02:25:21.755 -->
02:25:23.078I mean absolutely this.
02:25:23.078 -->
02:25:41.876There's like a great quote from the spake zarathustra by nicha, where, like, he's describing this like dog um, and it's like wrestling with the snake in his mouth and the dog, in order to like escape, he needs to bite through the snake and just like get through it.
02:25:41.876 -->
02:25:58.862And he's this famously like sickly philosopher who spent his nights like vomiting up black bile and like, in order to write what he did and be the kind of person that he was, he just had to like get through it and he had to embrace that pain.
02:25:58.862 -->
02:26:01.716And so many things in life are uncomfortable.
02:26:01.716 -->
02:26:14.043You have to bite through them and makeup, I think, is like that sometimes I think we've discussed fashion, everything in our show y'all.
02:26:14.305 -->
02:26:17.653Yeah, I think we should um probably wrap up here.
02:26:17.653 -->
02:26:19.539Are you gonna hate us if we wrap?
02:26:19.558 -->
02:26:19.600up?
02:26:19.600 -->
02:26:20.979Not at all.
02:26:20.979 -->
02:26:21.618Can we push?
02:26:21.677 -->
02:26:22.361it to next week?
02:26:22.361 -->
02:26:29.425Yeah, for sure okay yeah, because this has gone on quite a while.
02:26:29.822 -->
02:26:46.583It's been awesome it's such a good combo, alright, so okay, this has been a blast, y'all, unpacking all these different topics, going through all these different topics, going through all these different like pieces of information and just content that we can share with each other.
02:26:46.583 -->
02:26:51.465So, all right, thank you all so much for hanging out with us at doll cast.
02:26:51.465 -->
02:26:54.043It's been a blast unpacking these topics with you.
02:26:54.043 -->
02:27:06.387Please make sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel, doll cast R eight N that's doll cast dash R eightN, for more content, and follow us on TikTok at Dollcast for your daily dose of insight and laughter.
02:27:06.387 -->
02:27:09.763You can also check us out on X at Dollcast Show.
02:27:09.763 -->
02:27:15.806That's our handle and just so you know, we can't do the show without your support.
02:27:15.806 -->
02:27:17.139Until next time, stay fabulous and keep spreading the love.
02:27:17.139 -->
02:27:17.843Okay, today's show is next time.
02:27:17.843 -->
02:27:19.752Stay fabulous and keep spreading the love.
02:27:19.752 -->
02:27:23.684Okay, today's show is Brie Terminated.
02:27:23.684 -->
02:27:29.746Today's show is Kelly Terminated and Taff Terminated.
02:27:29.746 -->
02:27:30.769That's right.
02:27:30.769 -->
02:27:32.299Today's show is terminated.
02:27:32.299 -->
02:27:33.382Thank you for tuning in.
02:27:33.382 -->
02:27:35.950Bye, bye.
02:27:37.016 -->
02:27:40.496Holy crap, wow, it's just a black hole of time.
02:27:40.496 -->
02:27:42.620It's like going out to lunch with girlfriends.
