Is Data Raising Your Electric Bill? The Hidden Cost of America's AI Data Centers.

WEBVTT
00:00:01.160 --> 00:00:05.780
Attention! Here is today's trigger warning. If
00:00:05.780 --> 00:00:08.679
you require a warning before hearing an opinion,
00:00:09.619 --> 00:00:13.179
consider yourself now warned. Because somewhere
00:00:13.179 --> 00:00:16.239
in the next hour, someone may ask what you believe,
00:00:16.539 --> 00:00:19.239
what you believe it, and whether you had anything
00:00:19.239 --> 00:00:23.179
resembling evidence. Those easily offended by
00:00:23.179 --> 00:00:26.320
facts, follow -up questions, or complete sentences,
00:00:27.019 --> 00:00:30.839
they wish to leave right now. those remaining
00:00:30.839 --> 00:00:34.920
can meet the cast and suggest subjects that deserve
00:00:34.920 --> 00:00:39.659
our attention by visiting us at .gandthediscussance
00:00:39.659 --> 00:00:44.460
.com. You're listening to .gandthediscussance
00:00:44.460 --> 00:01:00.429
on sabbatical. The Doctor is in. Well, you're
00:01:00.429 --> 00:01:03.649
not unlike anybody else out there. So welcome
00:01:03.649 --> 00:01:09.510
in. I wanted to remind everybody that we've got
00:01:09.510 --> 00:01:13.170
a big week of shows coming up. This one today
00:01:13.170 --> 00:01:17.650
is about AI data centers or just data centers.
00:01:17.709 --> 00:01:20.010
And we're going to sort of run down what the
00:01:20.010 --> 00:01:23.650
hidden costs of America's AI data center boom
00:01:23.650 --> 00:01:27.689
might be to the individual. This is something
00:01:27.689 --> 00:01:32.760
that I sort of, I don't know, poopod as this
00:01:32.760 --> 00:01:36.260
is the left deciding that, you know, we don't
00:01:36.260 --> 00:01:39.280
need power centers, those sorts of things. The
00:01:39.280 --> 00:01:41.000
more I did research on it, the more I thought,
00:01:41.379 --> 00:01:43.700
you know, my bet is there's a lot of people out
00:01:43.700 --> 00:01:45.659
there that are sort of feeling that way, like
00:01:45.659 --> 00:01:47.620
I'd like to know a little bit more. Well, we're
00:01:47.620 --> 00:01:50.200
going to do that for you today. On Wednesday,
00:01:50.379 --> 00:01:53.200
we're going to talk about underage gambling.
00:01:53.879 --> 00:01:57.000
Underage gambling? Well, yeah, with these with
00:01:57.000 --> 00:02:00.099
these new laws that it's expanded where you can
00:02:00.099 --> 00:02:02.680
gamble from anywhere. Right. From your phone,
00:02:03.260 --> 00:02:05.920
from, you know, your room late at night under
00:02:05.920 --> 00:02:07.780
your covers, those sorts of things. There's a
00:02:07.780 --> 00:02:10.080
lot of kids start to gamble. And I've sort of
00:02:10.080 --> 00:02:13.000
wanted us to be on the record as saying. And
00:02:13.000 --> 00:02:14.919
this is something that's coming that I think
00:02:14.919 --> 00:02:18.620
people need to be aware of because I think, you
00:02:18.620 --> 00:02:22.500
know, a lot of kids end up sort of ruined anymore
00:02:22.500 --> 00:02:26.180
before they even get started right under their
00:02:26.180 --> 00:02:28.240
parents' noses, right under the noses of their
00:02:28.240 --> 00:02:30.199
teacher. They're sitting there. They could, you
00:02:30.199 --> 00:02:32.080
know, look like they're just playing with their
00:02:32.080 --> 00:02:35.620
phone while they're losing a fortune on all these
00:02:35.620 --> 00:02:38.120
gambling apps. And it's not just sports. You
00:02:38.120 --> 00:02:40.819
can bet on anything now. You can bet on, you
00:02:40.819 --> 00:02:44.530
know, election outcomes, those sorts of things.
00:02:44.750 --> 00:02:48.490
Have you seen Junior's gray? Yeah. Have you seen
00:02:48.490 --> 00:02:51.590
his seen our bank account after Junior decided
00:02:51.590 --> 00:02:56.110
to hijack our credit card and go to Draft Kings
00:02:56.110 --> 00:02:59.009
or wherever he's going to go with it? So I thought
00:02:59.009 --> 00:03:01.669
that would be interesting. And then we have the
00:03:01.669 --> 00:03:05.229
second part of the Ozark Music Festival, where
00:03:05.229 --> 00:03:07.789
the professor has been we have to go back there
00:03:07.789 --> 00:03:09.629
again. Yeah, because we got to finish it up.
00:03:09.629 --> 00:03:12.759
We only did we only did like two. Sodom and Gomorrah,
00:03:12.860 --> 00:03:15.639
that's such a dangerous place. Yeah, and it's
00:03:15.639 --> 00:03:19.960
actually titled Sodom and Gomorrah. Sodom and
00:03:19.960 --> 00:03:23.099
Gomorrah in Missouri, the Ozark music festival
00:03:23.099 --> 00:03:27.180
and the untold story there. And there's really
00:03:27.180 --> 00:03:31.639
no one who lived that any more fully than the
00:03:31.639 --> 00:03:34.680
professor. He was there with a camera the entire
00:03:34.680 --> 00:03:38.740
time. He flew over the festival. He himself,
00:03:39.080 --> 00:03:41.740
those guys that were those guys that were partaking
00:03:41.740 --> 00:03:44.520
in the prostitution buses may have lived it to
00:03:44.520 --> 00:03:47.620
a little heavier extent than I did. Yeah. So
00:03:47.620 --> 00:03:52.319
there were actual prostitution buses at this
00:03:52.319 --> 00:03:57.319
thing. And so, you know, for us and just to,
00:03:57.319 --> 00:03:59.919
I don't know, not to put too fine a point on
00:03:59.919 --> 00:04:02.909
this. You know, they're talking about in different
00:04:02.909 --> 00:04:05.289
parts of the research here where, you know, everybody
00:04:05.289 --> 00:04:07.710
in Sedalia continues to talk about this. I've
00:04:07.710 --> 00:04:10.650
never found that to be the case. You know, I've
00:04:10.650 --> 00:04:14.409
never found that to be the case. And as you know,
00:04:14.750 --> 00:04:17.990
I've just not heard that much talk about it after
00:04:17.990 --> 00:04:20.930
it was over with it seemed like is more of a
00:04:20.930 --> 00:04:23.410
big secret that we just don't talk about around
00:04:23.410 --> 00:04:25.870
here instead of sweep that under the rug and
00:04:25.870 --> 00:04:28.050
pretend it never happened. Does that does it
00:04:28.050 --> 00:04:30.949
seem that way to you as well? Yeah, yeah, yeah,
00:04:31.009 --> 00:04:34.670
and so you know I think it's a story that you
00:04:34.670 --> 00:04:37.769
know the rest of the nation really doesn't know
00:04:37.769 --> 00:04:41.250
that much about but this thing was likely bigger
00:04:41.250 --> 00:04:45.350
than wind stock had some outstanding bands and
00:04:45.350 --> 00:04:49.949
it had some real Sodom and Gomorrah type atmosphere
00:04:49.949 --> 00:04:52.629
for real and that's the part we're going to get
00:04:52.629 --> 00:04:56.110
into Friday So you'll want to make sure that
00:04:56.110 --> 00:04:58.350
you stay close this week because we have some
00:04:58.350 --> 00:05:02.290
really great things coming up Make sure that
00:05:02.290 --> 00:05:07.870
you subscribe so you never miss. Otherwise, it's
00:05:07.870 --> 00:05:10.589
easy to miss, and that way it just comes to you.
00:05:11.149 --> 00:05:13.610
Also, the website. Part of the reason why the
00:05:13.610 --> 00:05:20.279
website was... So Made so easy to follow was
00:05:20.279 --> 00:05:23.040
so you didn't have to go to any platform to get
00:05:23.040 --> 00:05:25.379
the show You can go to the website hit one button.
00:05:25.379 --> 00:05:28.360
It'll say listen now You can go to the latest
00:05:28.360 --> 00:05:30.939
episodes or all the episodes. You don't have
00:05:30.939 --> 00:05:34.160
to go to any other website You don't have to
00:05:34.160 --> 00:05:37.959
go to a podcast hosting service. You can go straight
00:05:37.959 --> 00:05:40.279
to us on our website Which is more fun anyway,
00:05:40.279 --> 00:05:42.319
because you can write to us. You can tell us
00:05:42.319 --> 00:05:45.779
what you think of the show you can write to the
00:05:45.779 --> 00:05:49.939
professor and tell him, hey man, I really dig
00:05:49.939 --> 00:05:52.199
what you said about the festival and will you
00:05:52.199 --> 00:05:54.180
send me a couple pictures of yourself with Ted
00:05:54.180 --> 00:05:57.160
Nugent? He might just be able to - Well, I didn't
00:05:57.160 --> 00:05:59.439
get that close. I got close to Ted Nugent many
00:05:59.439 --> 00:06:01.600
years before that at a concert in a little town
00:06:01.600 --> 00:06:04.000
where they wanted him to stop playing at this
00:06:04.000 --> 00:06:06.379
big ball field and he wouldn't stop until they
00:06:06.379 --> 00:06:08.660
shut his electricity off and he was out in the
00:06:08.660 --> 00:06:10.540
crowd, we were all there in the dark, Ted was
00:06:10.540 --> 00:06:12.379
mingling with all the people, all of his fans.
00:06:12.649 --> 00:06:15.250
He was with the Amboy Dukes, and Ted was just
00:06:15.250 --> 00:06:17.730
cussing up a storm, but yeah, it was within 24
00:06:17.730 --> 00:06:20.269
inches. It was exciting. There was magic in the
00:06:20.269 --> 00:06:22.850
air, but that was a long time ago. I can imagine
00:06:22.850 --> 00:06:26.329
that, you know, if you're within 24 inches of
00:06:26.329 --> 00:06:29.129
Nugent, that there would be a must in the air,
00:06:29.189 --> 00:06:32.550
you know, in aroma for certain. Swing, dang,
00:06:32.730 --> 00:06:40.220
swing, dang! So that's getting back to things
00:06:40.220 --> 00:06:42.339
that are on people's mind that are a more little
00:06:42.339 --> 00:06:48.139
certainly more Serious than that What we're going
00:06:48.139 --> 00:06:50.899
to attempt to do with this data center thing
00:06:50.899 --> 00:06:55.180
is to follow the money from an AI prompt to a
00:06:55.180 --> 00:06:58.339
household power bill and decide whether the company's
00:06:58.339 --> 00:07:01.879
creating the demand or paying the full cost of
00:07:01.879 --> 00:07:04.000
serving it. Now there's a lot of people who don't
00:07:04.000 --> 00:07:08.220
think so. Artificial intelligence feels weightless.
00:07:08.579 --> 00:07:10.920
You type in a question and an answer appears,
00:07:11.220 --> 00:07:15.439
but behind that answer are buildings. There's
00:07:15.439 --> 00:07:17.600
a lot of these buildings. When you hear a lot
00:07:17.600 --> 00:07:19.980
of buildings, until you know the scale of the
00:07:19.980 --> 00:07:22.060
actual construction that's going on out there.
00:07:22.300 --> 00:07:25.500
For example, in Texas, there's 300 of these things
00:07:25.500 --> 00:07:27.920
under construction right this second. And they
00:07:27.920 --> 00:07:31.839
are huge. They are the size of car plants and
00:07:31.839 --> 00:07:34.899
even bigger than that. And they are huge places,
00:07:35.319 --> 00:07:37.959
packed with computers that consume electricity
00:07:37.959 --> 00:07:41.639
every second. The technology may be revolutionary,
00:07:41.680 --> 00:07:45.160
but the bill is already becoming political. I
00:07:45.160 --> 00:07:47.500
thought I would play this from PBS so you could
00:07:47.500 --> 00:07:50.699
get an idea of the scale of what's going on.
00:07:50.959 --> 00:07:53.459
It's estimated that by the year 2030, companies
00:07:53.459 --> 00:07:56.680
will have invested nearly $7 trillion in data
00:07:56.680 --> 00:07:59.319
center infrastructure in a race to dominate the
00:07:59.319 --> 00:08:02.879
AI market. But this race to build AI superiority
00:08:02.879 --> 00:08:05.740
is happening so fast, many are concerned that
00:08:05.740 --> 00:08:08.019
companies might be cutting corners or taking
00:08:08.019 --> 00:08:11.230
advantage of regulatory loopholes. especially
00:08:11.230 --> 00:08:14.209
when it comes to the electricity and water required
00:08:14.209 --> 00:08:17.810
to run these massive data centers. Your AI query
00:08:17.810 --> 00:08:21.790
likely pings a data center like this, full of
00:08:21.790 --> 00:08:24.810
millions of power -hungry processing chips running
00:08:24.810 --> 00:08:28.089
the chatbots, agents, and other tools that millions
00:08:28.089 --> 00:08:31.370
of people interact with every day. But to power
00:08:31.370 --> 00:08:34.009
those operations, data centers around the country
00:08:34.009 --> 00:08:36.909
are increasingly relying on their own custom
00:08:36.909 --> 00:08:40.440
-built gas power plants. The Stargate data center
00:08:40.440 --> 00:08:45.399
already has 62 diesel generators and 10 gas -powered
00:08:45.399 --> 00:08:50.080
turbines on site, with plans for 41 more. This
00:08:50.080 --> 00:08:52.379
will make it one of the largest fossil fuel power
00:08:52.379 --> 00:08:56.279
plants of any kind in Texas. And it's just to
00:08:56.279 --> 00:09:08.429
power this data center. It has a, you still have
00:09:08.429 --> 00:09:13.149
a gas turbine engine? Yes, I do, I do. I actually
00:09:13.149 --> 00:09:15.809
have one out of my shop. It's waiting until I
00:09:15.809 --> 00:09:19.230
get back to my aircraft project that I started.
00:09:19.809 --> 00:09:23.269
That thing's a little scary. I started this project
00:09:23.269 --> 00:09:26.870
in I guess 19, middle of the mid 80s, maybe 85
00:09:26.870 --> 00:09:29.990
-ish. And then I abandoned it two years later
00:09:29.990 --> 00:09:31.750
or at least put it on the back burner where it's
00:09:31.750 --> 00:09:35.269
been ever since when I was forced to. That's
00:09:35.269 --> 00:09:37.750
my bird in the background by the way green Amazon
00:09:37.750 --> 00:09:41.350
parrot he's part of this podcast, but anyway
00:09:41.350 --> 00:09:45.389
I had to leave the project for a while because
00:09:45.389 --> 00:09:47.889
we were ousted from our living quarters because
00:09:47.889 --> 00:09:50.830
a church nearby was going to turn our Property
00:09:50.830 --> 00:09:54.309
into a parking lot. So I guess it was uh, I'm
00:09:54.309 --> 00:09:56.529
not gonna say it certainly wasn't heavenly domain
00:09:56.529 --> 00:09:58.909
and that's another another podcast. It was just
00:09:58.909 --> 00:10:02.090
a church's business. I think so that's Anyway,
00:10:02.230 --> 00:10:04.389
the project was put on hold at that point and
00:10:04.389 --> 00:10:06.409
then life got in the way so to speak the new
00:10:06.409 --> 00:10:09.490
residents need a lot of work so my gas turbine
00:10:09.490 --> 00:10:13.450
powered aircraft is on hold It's waiting till
00:10:13.450 --> 00:10:15.529
I get back to it. I've heard a couple stories
00:10:15.529 --> 00:10:18.289
about the power of that engine now I've seen
00:10:18.289 --> 00:10:21.750
it. It's really not very big, but it is plenty
00:10:21.750 --> 00:10:27.009
scary It's got your attention a couple of times
00:10:27.009 --> 00:10:30.440
hasn't it? Oh yeah, I ran it on a test stand
00:10:30.440 --> 00:10:35.440
a few times and it always scared me when I ran
00:10:35.440 --> 00:10:37.279
it. I think if I went back to the project, I
00:10:37.279 --> 00:10:39.460
wouldn't be so freaked out as I was back then.
00:10:39.720 --> 00:10:41.440
That was kind of my introduction to it back in
00:10:41.440 --> 00:10:43.740
that era. Now I kind of know what to expect,
00:10:43.879 --> 00:10:45.580
but I was so frightened of it that I even put
00:10:45.580 --> 00:10:48.820
a shield on the test stand between me and the
00:10:48.820 --> 00:10:51.539
engine itself and an instrument panel on my side
00:10:51.539 --> 00:10:54.210
to run the thing. I don't know, I guess I was
00:10:54.210 --> 00:10:57.570
just paranoid. I stepped into an area I knew
00:10:57.570 --> 00:11:00.169
nothing about and it was frightening. I think
00:11:00.169 --> 00:11:02.429
I'm probably over that if I can return to the
00:11:02.429 --> 00:11:05.299
project. I'm not going to need to. a shield between
00:11:05.299 --> 00:11:07.960
me and the engine. So what's going on in these
00:11:07.960 --> 00:11:11.299
AI power center or these data centers is they've
00:11:11.299 --> 00:11:15.519
got these huge gas turbine engines mounted on
00:11:15.519 --> 00:11:18.580
trucks. So it's loud. Yeah. And part of the reason
00:11:18.580 --> 00:11:21.899
why they do that is so they can say they're just
00:11:21.899 --> 00:11:25.440
temporary. They are not the actual infrastructure.
00:11:25.440 --> 00:11:29.440
And these are huge gas turbine engines and they
00:11:29.440 --> 00:11:32.360
run them because they have to have them to power
00:11:32.360 --> 00:11:35.120
these things. These ones that are in Texas that
00:11:35.120 --> 00:11:38.120
you were talking about, are they like next to
00:11:38.120 --> 00:11:41.399
communities? Are they out in the middle of nowhere?
00:11:41.980 --> 00:11:44.159
Some communities have embraced them because of
00:11:44.159 --> 00:11:46.440
the tax revenue that they bring because of the
00:11:46.440 --> 00:11:48.559
jobs that they're supposedly going to bring.
00:11:49.080 --> 00:11:50.899
Some of them are sort of out in the middle of
00:11:50.899 --> 00:11:54.320
nowhere. Right. So both things are going on.
00:11:54.340 --> 00:11:58.639
The only jobs that they have technically that
00:11:58.639 --> 00:12:02.120
will stay there are the construction jobs, right?
00:12:02.340 --> 00:12:05.019
Well, after those, that's a point that's coming
00:12:05.019 --> 00:12:07.919
up. So they've promised a lot of jobs, but after
00:12:07.919 --> 00:12:10.519
these things are actually built, it doesn't take
00:12:10.519 --> 00:12:13.340
that many people to mine the computers that are
00:12:13.340 --> 00:12:15.460
inside. It depends on how big this is. Exactly.
00:12:16.019 --> 00:12:18.200
So there's a lot of jobs to start with, and there
00:12:18.200 --> 00:12:20.519
are jobs that are left because these places are
00:12:20.519 --> 00:12:24.600
huge. But in terms of comparing it to like an
00:12:24.600 --> 00:12:27.889
automobile plant, They're not going to stay.
00:12:28.070 --> 00:12:31.750
Right, not as many of those sorts of jobs. So
00:12:31.750 --> 00:12:34.950
the Department of Energy's 2024 national report
00:12:34.950 --> 00:12:38.830
says data centers used about 4 .4 percent of
00:12:38.830 --> 00:12:42.230
U .S. electricity in 2023, and they could use
00:12:42.230 --> 00:12:46.909
6 .7 to 12 percent by 2028, roughly double or
00:12:46.909 --> 00:12:50.850
triple their 2023 consumptions. When we come
00:12:50.850 --> 00:12:54.759
back, The computers do not receive a separate
00:12:54.759 --> 00:12:59.039
electric universe. They enter the same grid that
00:12:59.039 --> 00:13:02.840
serves your refrigerator and the cost can travel
00:13:02.840 --> 00:13:06.100
all the way to your meter. You're listening to
00:13:06.100 --> 00:13:11.379
Doc G and the Discussants. The discussion continues
00:13:11.379 --> 00:13:14.940
in just a moment. While we take a break, go to
00:13:14.940 --> 00:13:19.440
Doc G and the Discussants dot com. Meet the Discussants.
00:13:19.620 --> 00:13:22.960
Catch another episode. Support the show, visit
00:13:22.960 --> 00:13:26.840
the shop, or tell your favorite cast member exactly
00:13:26.840 --> 00:13:31.480
what's on your mind. Doc G and the Discussants
00:13:31.480 --> 00:13:42.960
on sabbatical, back after this. Every successful
00:13:42.960 --> 00:13:46.509
show has great sponsors. If you'd like to introduce
00:13:46.509 --> 00:13:49.070
your business to our audience, we'd like you
00:13:49.070 --> 00:13:52.350
to consider our tremendous sponsorship opportunities.
00:13:53.330 --> 00:13:56.169
Choose from general admission, mezzanine, front
00:13:56.169 --> 00:13:59.950
row floor, backstage pass, or executive producer.
00:14:00.690 --> 00:14:03.429
Every sponsorship includes recognition on the
00:14:03.429 --> 00:14:07.309
show. founding sponsor status, preferred advertising
00:14:07.309 --> 00:14:10.330
rates, and additional benefits based on your
00:14:10.330 --> 00:14:13.429
sponsorship level. You'll find complete details
00:14:13.429 --> 00:14:26.710
at dgnd .com or docgandthediscussance .com. or
00:14:26.710 --> 00:14:29.950
simply looking for a better place to manage your
00:14:29.950 --> 00:14:34.330
everyday finances, our local team is here to
00:14:34.330 --> 00:14:37.990
help. With convenient online and mobile banking,
00:14:38.549 --> 00:14:41.110
competitive lending options, and people you can
00:14:41.110 --> 00:14:44.610
actually talk to, Ozark Regional Bank combines
00:14:44.610 --> 00:14:48.370
modern banking with hometown service. Stop by
00:14:48.370 --> 00:14:51.970
one of our convenient locations or learn more
00:14:51.970 --> 00:14:58.019
today. Ozark Regional Bank. Local people. Local
00:14:58.019 --> 00:15:04.299
decisions. Member FDIC Equal Housing Lender.
00:15:08.480 --> 00:15:12.059
Security isn't about reacting. It's about knowing.
00:15:12.759 --> 00:15:16.440
Deep Blue Home Security gives you full visibility,
00:15:16.740 --> 00:15:21.200
doors, windows, motion, all of it, where you
00:15:21.200 --> 00:15:25.690
need it. Quiet system, immediate alerts, and
00:15:25.690 --> 00:15:30.330
no unnecessary noise unless that noise matters.
00:15:31.070 --> 00:15:34.289
Deep blue home security. You don't think about
00:15:34.289 --> 00:15:39.190
it because it's already handled. Insurance has
00:15:39.190 --> 00:15:42.850
become complicated enough. Heritage Mutual Group
00:15:42.850 --> 00:15:45.309
believes coverage should still come with real
00:15:45.309 --> 00:15:48.710
conversations, straightforward answers, and people
00:15:48.710 --> 00:15:51.429
you can actually reach when something goes wrong.
00:15:51.950 --> 00:15:55.350
Whether it's home, auto, business, or life insurance,
00:15:55.830 --> 00:15:58.669
Heritage Mutual Group works to help protect what
00:15:58.669 --> 00:16:04.509
matters most without the runaround. This message
00:16:04.509 --> 00:16:06.970
is for Shana, my mom who just finished her high
00:16:06.970 --> 00:16:09.350
school diploma. I wanted to say I'm so proud
00:16:09.350 --> 00:16:11.690
of you for finishing school. You told me it's
00:16:11.690 --> 00:16:14.029
never too late to achieve your dreams. I hope
00:16:14.029 --> 00:16:17.429
to make you as proud as you have made me. When
00:16:17.429 --> 00:16:21.429
you graduate, they graduate. Finish your high
00:16:21.429 --> 00:16:25.289
school diploma for you and for them. Visit finishyourdiploma
00:16:25.289 --> 00:16:28.090
.org to find free and supportive adult education
00:16:28.090 --> 00:16:30.929
centers near you. Brought to you by the Dollar
00:16:30.929 --> 00:16:33.210
General Literacy Foundation and the Ad Council.
00:16:43.879 --> 00:16:47.440
At the intersection of policy, politics, and
00:16:47.440 --> 00:16:49.960
culture, you're on sabbatical with Doc G and
00:16:49.960 --> 00:16:53.659
the Discussants. To contact the program or email
00:16:53.659 --> 00:16:58.279
your favorite discussant, write to docgshowstudio
00:16:58.279 --> 00:17:04.960
at gmail .com. We are talking about AI data centers
00:17:04.960 --> 00:17:08.819
as are most of the nation, one way or another.
00:17:09.400 --> 00:17:13.039
Several Republican governors, a lot of Democratic
00:17:13.039 --> 00:17:16.039
governors, but several Republican governors,
00:17:16.420 --> 00:17:19.819
including Governor Abbott down in Texas, have
00:17:19.819 --> 00:17:22.079
sort of put the brakes on this a little bit.
00:17:22.299 --> 00:17:26.480
Looking at it a little bit more seriously, because
00:17:26.480 --> 00:17:29.460
I think that they are starting to become aware
00:17:29.460 --> 00:17:33.849
of just what the demands are going to be. You
00:17:33.849 --> 00:17:36.509
know, this new demand is going to create a need
00:17:36.509 --> 00:17:40.529
for generation, transmission and guaranteed capacity.
00:17:41.670 --> 00:17:44.289
Regulators then decide who's going to pay for
00:17:44.289 --> 00:17:47.890
all this. So more load can require new power
00:17:47.890 --> 00:17:51.130
plants, substations and transmissions. Utilities
00:17:51.130 --> 00:17:54.849
cover approved cost and through rates. Regional
00:17:54.849 --> 00:17:58.369
capacity markets also pay generators to be available
00:17:58.369 --> 00:18:02.599
when demand peaks. Just to give you some idea,
00:18:03.539 --> 00:18:07.380
this is as big as the defense budget. New facilities
00:18:07.380 --> 00:18:10.099
like this are being built largely to meet demand
00:18:10.099 --> 00:18:13.980
for generative AI tools like chatbots. OpenAI
00:18:13.980 --> 00:18:16.799
reported that global use of chatbots more than
00:18:16.799 --> 00:18:20.519
doubled in the last year, going from 400 to 900
00:18:20.519 --> 00:18:23.490
million users. Big tech companies are projected
00:18:23.490 --> 00:18:27.329
to spend more than $800 billion on the infrastructure
00:18:27.329 --> 00:18:31.230
behind artificial intelligence in 2026. And in
00:18:31.230 --> 00:18:34.710
2027, that number will exceed a trillion dollars.
00:18:35.210 --> 00:18:38.690
That's on par with the entire U .S. defense budget.
00:18:41.410 --> 00:18:44.309
Stargate is one of the most ambitious and powerful
00:18:44.309 --> 00:18:47.980
AI data centers ever built. The proposed on -site
00:18:47.980 --> 00:18:51.779
power plant could deliver more than 1 .7 gigawatts
00:18:51.779 --> 00:18:54.460
of power. That's enough energy to power more
00:18:54.460 --> 00:18:57.559
than 1 million homes for a year. The Stargate
00:18:57.559 --> 00:19:03.019
facility is in Texas and it is massive. In the
00:19:03.019 --> 00:19:07.119
nation's largest regional grid, PJM's independent
00:19:07.119 --> 00:19:10.539
market monitor says data center growth is the
00:19:10.539 --> 00:19:14.059
primary reason for recent and expected capacity
00:19:14.059 --> 00:19:17.970
market pressure. One 2026 analysis attributed
00:19:17.970 --> 00:19:22.670
6 .5 billion or 40 percent of the capacity cost
00:19:22.670 --> 00:19:27.970
to data center load. So, you know, that brings
00:19:27.970 --> 00:19:30.869
up some questions. A data center does not automatically
00:19:30.869 --> 00:19:34.670
raise every energy bill. New large customers
00:19:34.670 --> 00:19:38.250
can spread fixed costs and improve grid utilization.
00:19:38.569 --> 00:19:42.250
But bills rise usually when their added infrastructure
00:19:42.250 --> 00:19:45.130
and risk are shifted to existing customers. rather
00:19:45.130 --> 00:19:49.809
than charge to the companies creating them. And
00:19:49.809 --> 00:19:52.569
this is something that Congress is now starting
00:19:52.569 --> 00:19:56.549
to look at because if they were like myself,
00:19:57.369 --> 00:20:02.609
I did and have heard and have been... concerned
00:20:02.609 --> 00:20:08.109
mildly that these were going to impose a lot
00:20:08.109 --> 00:20:11.490
more usage which could increase electricity bills
00:20:11.490 --> 00:20:14.329
while electricity bills are going up anyway.
00:20:15.690 --> 00:20:18.490
I know, you know, personal electricity bills
00:20:18.490 --> 00:20:21.930
have crept up over especially the last couple
00:20:21.930 --> 00:20:26.980
of years, but If this is going to increase by
00:20:26.980 --> 00:20:31.059
double and triple and it's already consuming
00:20:31.059 --> 00:20:34.279
huge amounts of power, I don't think that any
00:20:34.279 --> 00:20:38.900
of us should be surprised if the bills increase.
00:20:39.440 --> 00:20:42.720
Now, there are fail saves where the government
00:20:42.720 --> 00:20:45.960
and local governments, especially state governments,
00:20:47.039 --> 00:20:50.980
making some of these outfits. provide their own
00:20:50.980 --> 00:20:53.299
infrastructure. And President Trump has talked
00:20:53.299 --> 00:20:57.240
about making these data centers provide their
00:20:57.240 --> 00:21:01.220
own electricity. Well, what happens when President
00:21:01.220 --> 00:21:03.740
Trump is no longer around or the Republicans
00:21:03.740 --> 00:21:08.539
are not in power? And here's another question.
00:21:08.619 --> 00:21:12.180
What happens if they start building and they
00:21:12.180 --> 00:21:16.359
just decide to quit and they pull out after they've?
00:21:16.539 --> 00:21:20.059
done a lot of work on these huge data centers,
00:21:20.980 --> 00:21:23.140
and they decide, hey, we've built some of this
00:21:23.140 --> 00:21:24.980
infrastructure, but we're not going to finish
00:21:24.980 --> 00:21:27.839
it anymore. How do you make sure that this thing
00:21:27.839 --> 00:21:31.380
doesn't really impact people in a bad way? And
00:21:31.380 --> 00:21:34.160
so the more I got into this question, the more
00:21:34.160 --> 00:21:39.539
I could see why even conservative governors who
00:21:39.539 --> 00:21:43.420
really pushed this, for good reasons because
00:21:43.420 --> 00:21:46.500
you know they're worried about national competitiveness
00:21:46.500 --> 00:21:49.799
state competitiveness those sorts of things why
00:21:49.799 --> 00:21:55.720
they're taking a second look why all of a sudden
00:21:55.720 --> 00:22:01.839
do we need so many i mean is it because everything
00:22:01.839 --> 00:22:05.240
is now using it you've got your smart phones
00:22:05.240 --> 00:22:08.500
you've got your refrigerator that's a smart refrigerator
00:22:08.500 --> 00:22:12.740
your whole house is a smart house i mean everything
00:22:12.740 --> 00:22:16.559
so is that why we need them or because of the
00:22:16.559 --> 00:22:23.660
all the ai generated um both It's both. So they
00:22:23.660 --> 00:22:25.599
were building these data centers to begin with.
00:22:25.799 --> 00:22:29.859
Gaming is a big deal, where people that are gaming
00:22:29.859 --> 00:22:33.980
are taking a lot of computing power, and it takes
00:22:33.980 --> 00:22:36.539
big data centers to run those things, and the
00:22:36.539 --> 00:22:38.920
networks and social media, those sorts of things.
00:22:38.940 --> 00:22:41.940
They were already building these centers. Then
00:22:41.940 --> 00:22:47.359
along comes AI, and it is power. It is eating
00:22:47.359 --> 00:22:51.630
everything up at this point. And thus, the talk
00:22:51.630 --> 00:22:54.829
of little nuclear reactors for these things,
00:22:55.549 --> 00:22:59.390
like aircraft carriers and submarines run a bridge
00:22:59.390 --> 00:23:02.049
too far for a lot of people. You know, they remember
00:23:02.049 --> 00:23:05.490
some fairly serious accidents that happened not
00:23:05.490 --> 00:23:08.809
all too many years ago. Look at all the blood
00:23:08.809 --> 00:23:10.930
that's been shed to get to the point where we
00:23:10.930 --> 00:23:13.509
are now with the airliners, for example. I mean,
00:23:13.589 --> 00:23:16.970
thousands of deaths and crashes every time we
00:23:16.970 --> 00:23:19.349
learn something from each one. I don't know how
00:23:19.349 --> 00:23:20.430
much of that we're going to have to go through
00:23:20.430 --> 00:23:22.970
with data centers and nuclear reactors and all
00:23:22.970 --> 00:23:25.390
that. A nuclear reactor is probably a good idea
00:23:25.390 --> 00:23:27.450
if it's small and we've gotten to the point that
00:23:27.450 --> 00:23:29.829
it'll stay contained and we can depend upon it
00:23:29.829 --> 00:23:32.089
to become a reliable piece of equipment. I don't
00:23:32.089 --> 00:23:34.329
know anything about it. I hope that's the case.
00:23:34.769 --> 00:23:37.650
Nuclear sounds good if it works properly, but,
00:23:37.750 --> 00:23:40.349
yeah, we do have a history of frightening events
00:23:40.349 --> 00:23:44.190
in that area. Back to you, Doc. Yeah, the problem
00:23:44.190 --> 00:23:47.390
here is that once there's a nuclear accident,
00:23:47.789 --> 00:23:52.029
It's not like an oil spill. You know, people
00:23:52.029 --> 00:23:56.210
pull their hair out over an oil spill. A nuclear
00:23:56.210 --> 00:23:59.970
accident is sort of forever in some ways. You
00:23:59.970 --> 00:24:03.150
know, it seems like I've seen, we've seen some...
00:24:04.240 --> 00:24:07.380
documentaries lately on Chernobyl and what has
00:24:07.380 --> 00:24:09.819
happened around there. And it seems like it's
00:24:09.819 --> 00:24:12.460
doing better than a lot of people expected, but
00:24:12.460 --> 00:24:15.039
at the same time the radiation levels there are
00:24:15.039 --> 00:24:18.779
super high. Same thing with some recent accident
00:24:18.779 --> 00:24:23.619
in Japan. In the last 10 years a Fukushima plant
00:24:23.619 --> 00:24:28.180
blew up, really blew up. I mean worse in most
00:24:28.180 --> 00:24:32.529
ways than Chernobyl. meltdown. So, you know,
00:24:32.609 --> 00:24:35.470
having a whole lot of these little bitty nuclear
00:24:35.470 --> 00:24:39.349
reactors out there and they're run by companies
00:24:39.349 --> 00:24:44.509
who maybe are or are not all that financially
00:24:44.509 --> 00:24:48.210
viable, then they're supplying the personnel
00:24:48.210 --> 00:24:52.309
to make sure that these things are safe. There's
00:24:52.309 --> 00:24:57.210
questions there for certain, but the alternative
00:24:57.210 --> 00:25:00.660
is what they're doing right now. So when they
00:25:00.660 --> 00:25:02.480
come in, a lot of times they'll say they're going
00:25:02.480 --> 00:25:05.200
to have this be sustainable. And by sustainable,
00:25:05.299 --> 00:25:09.779
they then mean nuclear, which is scary. So what
00:25:09.779 --> 00:25:12.799
they do is they bring in all these gas powered,
00:25:12.859 --> 00:25:15.740
diesel powered generators, these gas turbine
00:25:15.740 --> 00:25:18.519
engines. And there might be a hundred of these
00:25:18.519 --> 00:25:22.359
things to supply the power that they need, which
00:25:22.359 --> 00:25:27.940
is a lot of power. But they usually don't get
00:25:27.940 --> 00:25:32.099
approved with that. because of people's concerns
00:25:32.099 --> 00:25:35.460
around fossil fuel burning and the amount of
00:25:35.460 --> 00:25:38.319
fossil fuel that will take. So it seems like
00:25:38.319 --> 00:25:42.099
maybe this technology has maybe outgrown itself
00:25:42.099 --> 00:25:47.380
a little bit. And to chase it down, sort of like
00:25:47.380 --> 00:25:52.539
Professor suggested just a little bit ago, there's
00:25:52.539 --> 00:25:56.759
always a learning curve. And in previous generations,
00:25:57.220 --> 00:26:00.279
years gone by in America, You know, that usually
00:26:00.279 --> 00:26:04.700
costs lives or, you know, in one way or another,
00:26:04.779 --> 00:26:07.359
and I'm not so sure that he isn't right about
00:26:07.359 --> 00:26:10.380
this and that this may cost some lives in this
00:26:10.380 --> 00:26:15.019
circumstance as well. I'm not sure I'm comfortable
00:26:15.019 --> 00:26:18.099
with that. Well, it's worth it. We've got to
00:26:18.099 --> 00:26:21.819
keep the gamers electrified. That's sort of how
00:26:21.819 --> 00:26:25.700
it seems and But at the same time I'm also hearing
00:26:25.700 --> 00:26:31.180
well, you know AI is such an essential technology
00:26:31.180 --> 00:26:36.480
to America going forward And I sort of believe
00:26:36.480 --> 00:26:41.400
that so Then on top of it. We're hearing reports
00:26:41.400 --> 00:26:44.500
and from some fairly credible people including
00:26:44.500 --> 00:26:48.309
Elon Musk that this is a technology that people
00:26:48.309 --> 00:26:51.829
are going to have to watch very carefully because
00:26:51.829 --> 00:26:55.630
more than one person has said it could be the
00:26:55.630 --> 00:26:59.769
end of a human being. So Trump, Trump called
00:26:59.769 --> 00:27:04.630
it the new oil industry. We'll get back to the
00:27:04.630 --> 00:27:09.039
president. Isn't that what he said? It's the
00:27:09.039 --> 00:27:15.759
new oil industry? I'm not sure how I feel about...
00:27:15.759 --> 00:27:19.640
Well, I mean, how do they make money with this,
00:27:19.720 --> 00:27:22.640
I guess? When we come back, we'll explore some
00:27:22.640 --> 00:27:26.680
of these questions. When we take a look at...
00:27:26.680 --> 00:27:29.099
The industry says these projects create investment
00:27:29.099 --> 00:27:32.700
jobs and tax revenue, but states... are also
00:27:32.700 --> 00:27:36.539
competing to give them tax breaks. So what exactly
00:27:36.539 --> 00:27:39.700
are taxpayers buying? You're listening to Doc
00:27:39.700 --> 00:27:43.259
G and the discussants. You're on sabbatical.
00:27:50.579 --> 00:27:53.619
Before we continue, perhaps you'd like to circle
00:27:53.619 --> 00:27:58.259
back, unpack the conversation, sit with it, process
00:27:58.259 --> 00:28:02.670
it. and make sure everybody feels heard? Or you
00:28:02.670 --> 00:28:04.890
could simply decide whether it makes any sense,
00:28:05.009 --> 00:28:08.509
bit radical I know. This is Doc G and the Discussance.
00:28:08.670 --> 00:28:11.210
The truth is more interesting than fiction and
00:28:11.210 --> 00:28:13.789
far more valuable than cliches or talking points.
00:28:13.950 --> 00:28:21.730
We'll be back. The people around this table have
00:28:21.730 --> 00:28:24.769
a lot in common. They're all accomplished and
00:28:24.769 --> 00:28:27.009
interesting. They've spent their lives behind
00:28:27.009 --> 00:28:29.569
microphones, built businesses, taught students,
00:28:29.750 --> 00:28:32.650
designed and built remarkable machines, made
00:28:32.650 --> 00:28:35.789
music -led organizations, solved problems, and
00:28:35.789 --> 00:28:38.930
entertained audiences for years. They're talented,
00:28:39.230 --> 00:28:42.210
experienced, and every one of them are people
00:28:42.210 --> 00:28:45.880
you want to know. That's what makes them Discussants.
00:28:46.160 --> 00:28:50.519
Meet the people behind the microphones at docgandthediscussants
00:28:50.519 --> 00:29:09.069
.com Plumbing and electrical to outdoor equipment
00:29:09.069 --> 00:29:12.170
and seasonal supplies, Mill Creek Hardware believes
00:29:12.170 --> 00:29:16.230
customer service still matters. Mill Creek Hardware.
00:29:16.549 --> 00:29:19.690
Built for people who still like doing things
00:29:19.690 --> 00:29:27.950
themselves. You bought the stuff. You wanted
00:29:27.950 --> 00:29:31.769
the stuff. And now you have absolutely nowhere
00:29:31.769 --> 00:29:35.460
to put the stuff. That's where green lawn storage
00:29:35.460 --> 00:29:39.799
comes in. Clean units, easy access, plenty of
00:29:39.799 --> 00:29:43.700
room for furniture, tools, boxes, and everything
00:29:43.700 --> 00:29:45.640
else you swear you're going to use again someday.
00:29:46.359 --> 00:29:50.619
Green lawn storage. Your stuff needs a home too.
00:29:52.859 --> 00:29:56.440
Markets change. Economies change. Your long -term
00:29:56.440 --> 00:29:59.920
strategy shouldn't depend on panic and guesswork.
00:29:59.980 --> 00:30:03.099
Sterling Ridge Financial provides retirement
00:30:03.099 --> 00:30:06.220
planning, investment guidance and personalized
00:30:06.220 --> 00:30:09.700
financial strategies designed around your goals
00:30:09.700 --> 00:30:13.680
and your future. Sterling Ridge Financial, steady
00:30:13.680 --> 00:30:28.660
planning for uncertain times. So by stopping
00:30:28.660 --> 00:30:31.480
at the education section of a resume, you might
00:30:31.480 --> 00:30:34.759
throw away the perfect hire. You might miss someone
00:30:34.759 --> 00:30:37.279
who has valuable skills to offer, to help your
00:30:37.279 --> 00:30:39.920
business thrive right now and in the future.
00:30:40.900 --> 00:30:43.900
Because the truth is this. Skills First Hiring
00:30:43.900 --> 00:30:47.480
helps you see talent others miss. Like more than
00:30:47.480 --> 00:30:51.160
70 million stars, skilled through alternative
00:30:51.160 --> 00:30:54.980
routes. When you let their story unfold, you
00:30:54.980 --> 00:30:57.579
gain a competitive advantage. Because hiring
00:30:57.579 --> 00:31:00.339
managers who start with skills are 60 % more
00:31:00.339 --> 00:31:03.660
likely to find a successful hire. See the real
00:31:03.660 --> 00:31:08.539
person. Complete. See what others miss. Hire
00:31:08.539 --> 00:31:13.559
skills first. Learn why it's a competitive advantage
00:31:13.559 --> 00:31:17.220
at tearthepaperceiling .org. Brought to you by
00:31:17.220 --> 00:31:28.089
Opportunity at Work and the Ad Council. If you
00:31:28.089 --> 00:31:31.650
have need for an emotional support animal, well,
00:31:32.029 --> 00:31:35.490
you're in the wrong place. You're on sabbatical
00:31:35.490 --> 00:31:38.829
with Doc G and the Discussants at the intersection
00:31:38.829 --> 00:31:42.529
of policy, politics, and culture. Have a question
00:31:42.529 --> 00:31:46.109
for your favorite discussant? Well, please visit
00:31:46.109 --> 00:31:51.390
us on the World Wide Web at thediscusses .com.
00:31:51.990 --> 00:31:57.319
The Doctor is in. Thank you very much. We're
00:31:57.319 --> 00:31:59.680
back and we're talking about AI data centers
00:31:59.680 --> 00:32:03.359
or data centers in general that we can't this
00:32:03.359 --> 00:32:07.119
is a Huge huge topic. This is the kind of thing.
00:32:07.400 --> 00:32:09.970
I was working in the legislature that would just
00:32:09.970 --> 00:32:13.269
consume an entire session. Right. It would. I
00:32:13.269 --> 00:32:15.509
can see that. Yeah. I mean, just writing the
00:32:15.509 --> 00:32:18.170
bills and to think of all the things could happen.
00:32:18.190 --> 00:32:20.549
And then you got, you know, lobbying forces on
00:32:20.549 --> 00:32:23.650
all sides, trying to make sure that the whatever
00:32:23.650 --> 00:32:28.609
legislation comes out of it is suitable. This
00:32:28.609 --> 00:32:31.190
would be one of those things where it'd be night
00:32:31.190 --> 00:32:35.430
after night after night after night after amendment,
00:32:35.950 --> 00:32:38.450
replacement bill, substitute, those sorts of
00:32:38.450 --> 00:32:41.359
things. to go on and on and on and it should
00:32:41.359 --> 00:32:45.599
because this is extremely complicated and you
00:32:45.599 --> 00:32:48.829
know high stakes. You know, to test the economic
00:32:48.829 --> 00:32:51.910
development pitch against the public price, tax
00:32:51.910 --> 00:32:54.609
incentives and permanent jobs, water consumption,
00:32:54.690 --> 00:32:56.390
that's something we'll talk about here in a minute,
00:32:57.029 --> 00:32:59.890
and the possibility, and I think a pretty good
00:32:59.890 --> 00:33:03.109
possibility of higher water bills and electric
00:33:03.109 --> 00:33:06.269
bills if it isn't controlled fairly closely.
00:33:06.950 --> 00:33:09.730
Data centers bring enormous capital investment,
00:33:10.109 --> 00:33:11.910
construction work, technology infrastructure,
00:33:12.230 --> 00:33:15.819
and potentially durable local tax revenue. but
00:33:15.819 --> 00:33:19.039
they can also support the national race for AI
00:33:19.039 --> 00:33:22.579
leadership at the same time, which everybody
00:33:22.579 --> 00:33:26.140
has agreed is an important thing, and especially
00:33:26.140 --> 00:33:29.279
for the next generation of military hardware.
00:33:30.660 --> 00:33:33.059
In the subsidy race, the National Conference
00:33:33.059 --> 00:33:35.359
of State Legislatures, which it did a lot of
00:33:35.359 --> 00:33:39.420
work with, reports that at least 38 states offer
00:33:39.420 --> 00:33:43.400
data center incentives. So come and settle in
00:33:43.400 --> 00:33:45.240
our state. We're going to give you these tax
00:33:45.240 --> 00:33:48.839
breaks, tax exemptions, relief on electricity
00:33:48.839 --> 00:33:52.839
taxes, and in 11 states some form of property
00:33:52.839 --> 00:33:56.630
tax relief. It kind of defeats the purpose, doesn't
00:33:56.630 --> 00:33:58.549
it? Exactly, and that's what we're getting at.
00:33:58.670 --> 00:34:02.609
The multi -billion dollar server campus is not
00:34:02.609 --> 00:34:05.829
a billion dollar factory. It may employ large
00:34:05.829 --> 00:34:08.530
construction crews, but permanent staffing is
00:34:08.530 --> 00:34:11.849
often modest relative to the investment and public
00:34:11.849 --> 00:34:15.630
concessions. The right comparison is total public
00:34:15.630 --> 00:34:20.670
cost per lasting job and per dollar of new revenue
00:34:20.670 --> 00:34:24.739
that would be generated in that. You know, it's
00:34:24.739 --> 00:34:28.199
sort of hard to look in a crystal ball and project
00:34:28.199 --> 00:34:31.039
that. That's where the lobbyists come in. They
00:34:31.039 --> 00:34:33.260
say, these are all the jobs that's going to be
00:34:33.260 --> 00:34:35.619
created and it's a workforce development idea
00:34:35.619 --> 00:34:39.699
and it's going to help your state lead the nation
00:34:39.699 --> 00:34:44.519
in AI technology and what? A politician doesn't
00:34:44.519 --> 00:34:46.900
want to go home and say that he's helping to
00:34:46.900 --> 00:34:50.420
do that or her. Well, back to your workforce
00:34:50.420 --> 00:34:53.739
development. Once the place is built and it's
00:34:53.739 --> 00:34:56.880
up and running, you're talking about, what, 30,
00:34:57.059 --> 00:34:59.639
50 people? Oh, I think we're talking about a
00:34:59.639 --> 00:35:01.760
whole lot more than that, but not the same amount
00:35:01.760 --> 00:35:03.980
of people that, you know, it takes. These things
00:35:03.980 --> 00:35:08.400
are huge. I mean, we're talking about buildings
00:35:08.400 --> 00:35:11.179
that would cover all of Central Park in New York
00:35:11.179 --> 00:35:14.829
City. huge a complex I mean you can't do that
00:35:14.829 --> 00:35:16.869
with 30 40 people they're just going to have
00:35:16.869 --> 00:35:18.889
to have more than that but it's not the same
00:35:18.889 --> 00:35:21.170
thing as a whole building full of people who
00:35:21.170 --> 00:35:24.269
are building cars it's just not this not comparable
00:35:24.269 --> 00:35:26.210
in the number of people and there's a lot less
00:35:26.210 --> 00:35:29.269
people needed to build cars these days a lot
00:35:29.269 --> 00:35:31.949
of computers or a lot of robots and computers
00:35:31.949 --> 00:35:35.650
are doing that as well so let's just talk about
00:35:35.650 --> 00:35:37.849
what it means to us I mean these are great big
00:35:37.849 --> 00:35:41.110
questions but what does it mean to you know us
00:35:41.159 --> 00:35:45.280
How about in terms of water uses, this from PBS."
00:35:45.280 --> 00:35:47.599
The tens of thousands of high -powered chips
00:35:47.599 --> 00:35:50.920
inside a data center like this generate enormous
00:35:50.920 --> 00:35:54.219
amounts of heat, requiring massive cooling systems
00:35:54.219 --> 00:35:57.800
to prevent failures. Stargate uses a closed -loop
00:35:57.800 --> 00:36:00.480
cooling system that circulates water to pull
00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:03.599
heat away from the machines. While these systems
00:36:03.599 --> 00:36:06.659
usually only need to be filled once, they do
00:36:06.659 --> 00:36:10.590
require more electricity to run. By some estimates,
00:36:10.829 --> 00:36:12.929
the rise in data centers in the state of Texas
00:36:12.929 --> 00:36:16.809
could increase water usage a whopping 9 % by
00:36:16.809 --> 00:36:21.389
the year 2030. It's estimated by Berkeley Labs
00:36:21.389 --> 00:36:24.070
that the U .S. data centers directly consume
00:36:24.070 --> 00:36:28.730
66 billion liters, about 17 .4 billion gallons
00:36:28.730 --> 00:36:32.409
of water in 2023. Direct consumption could rise
00:36:32.409 --> 00:36:36.150
to roughly 38 to 73 billion gallons, billion
00:36:36.150 --> 00:36:40.510
gallons. It's hard to wrap your head around how.
00:36:40.889 --> 00:36:43.750
big a number, billions are, power generation
00:36:43.750 --> 00:36:47.730
adds as much larger indirect water footprint.
00:36:47.809 --> 00:36:49.570
So we're not just talking about electricity.
00:36:50.150 --> 00:36:53.289
We are talking about a lot of water needed to
00:36:53.289 --> 00:36:56.409
use it as well. So now, how does that reach your
00:36:56.409 --> 00:36:59.650
bill? How does that impact your water bill? Well,
00:37:00.050 --> 00:37:02.829
high local demand can force a utility to expand
00:37:02.829 --> 00:37:06.230
wells, treatment, storage, and pipelines if the
00:37:06.230 --> 00:37:08.869
data center does not cover those system -specific
00:37:08.869 --> 00:37:12.489
costs. and existing businesses can face higher
00:37:12.489 --> 00:37:15.570
water rates. The effect is local and depends
00:37:15.570 --> 00:37:19.110
on cooling technology, the technology used to
00:37:19.110 --> 00:37:22.789
actually cool, the water source available capacity
00:37:22.789 --> 00:37:26.210
and the contract. Let me say this while we're
00:37:26.210 --> 00:37:30.869
here in terms of cooling. The Norwegian countries,
00:37:31.030 --> 00:37:33.550
Finland, some of these countries that stay cold,
00:37:34.409 --> 00:37:37.730
they're getting a lot of data centers built because
00:37:37.730 --> 00:37:41.980
they're cold. and to make sure that they can
00:37:41.980 --> 00:37:44.940
cool without the need for some of these things.
00:37:45.199 --> 00:37:49.199
So it's a boon, at least at this point, to colder
00:37:49.199 --> 00:37:53.300
climates. and places where the politics will
00:37:53.300 --> 00:37:56.739
allow it to happen. Do we have any? Why are we
00:37:56.739 --> 00:37:58.820
not building them in Alaska? That's what I just
00:37:58.820 --> 00:38:03.559
was asking. Yeah, I think that I don't. That's
00:38:03.559 --> 00:38:07.380
a good question. I don't know the level of activity
00:38:07.380 --> 00:38:09.960
that's going on in Alaska underwater. But my
00:38:09.960 --> 00:38:13.480
bet would be that you've got all the good ideas.
00:38:13.599 --> 00:38:16.960
Yeah, my bet would be that. Alaska is getting
00:38:16.960 --> 00:38:20.920
a lot of interest to build. But you know, there's
00:38:20.920 --> 00:38:23.760
a lot of federal land in Alaska, too, which could
00:38:23.760 --> 00:38:27.960
be tricky. But I would say that this is a target
00:38:27.960 --> 00:38:31.480
for certain. Underwater, that's sort of like
00:38:31.480 --> 00:38:35.119
living on Mars. The professor could tell us about
00:38:35.119 --> 00:38:37.599
what it's like to live and work underwater. He's
00:38:37.599 --> 00:38:40.559
a scuba diver. Right. It would be hard to work
00:38:40.559 --> 00:38:43.219
on if something needed fixed on. You'd have to,
00:38:43.659 --> 00:38:46.800
you know... bring it back up or go down. Doesn't
00:38:46.800 --> 00:38:49.280
mean it couldn't be done if it was done where
00:38:49.280 --> 00:38:53.840
it was sort of self -contained. Just brainstorm
00:38:53.840 --> 00:38:57.940
it and design it for that location so there'll
00:38:57.940 --> 00:39:00.599
be no surprises. Just take everything into consideration
00:39:00.599 --> 00:39:03.800
and then send the crews out to put it together.
00:39:04.719 --> 00:39:10.570
Yeah I think that but these are these are important
00:39:10.570 --> 00:39:12.909
questions right this second and they're under
00:39:12.909 --> 00:39:15.530
construction you know I mean there's 300 of them
00:39:15.530 --> 00:39:18.869
now in Texas currently under construction and
00:39:18.869 --> 00:39:23.210
the answer right now is gas turbine engines diesel
00:39:23.210 --> 00:39:26.530
turbine engines and the neighbors in these areas
00:39:26.530 --> 00:39:30.559
are not happy because of the noise. They're saying
00:39:30.559 --> 00:39:33.179
that they're saying there's a lot of particulates
00:39:33.179 --> 00:39:35.519
in the air that you know they didn't bargain
00:39:35.519 --> 00:39:38.079
for when they bought their property having trouble
00:39:38.079 --> 00:39:41.800
maybe selling their property afterwards so you
00:39:41.800 --> 00:39:44.599
know this this clean thing that has been sold
00:39:44.599 --> 00:39:47.199
to legislatures to begin with about we're going
00:39:47.199 --> 00:39:49.460
to use nuclear we're going to use you know renewable
00:39:49.460 --> 00:39:52.780
sources That's really kind of not happening now.
00:39:52.800 --> 00:39:55.719
They're promising it down the line. What they're
00:39:55.719 --> 00:39:58.980
calling this is we start small. You start small.
00:39:59.179 --> 00:40:03.619
You start with a smaller thing. You promise what
00:40:03.619 --> 00:40:07.880
you have to promise to get the permits and then
00:40:07.880 --> 00:40:11.900
off you go with whatever it takes to build them.
00:40:14.219 --> 00:40:17.880
Went into this little project and boy, you know,
00:40:17.880 --> 00:40:19.679
there's a lot to know about this But I went in
00:40:19.679 --> 00:40:22.340
this little project as being skeptical I think
00:40:22.340 --> 00:40:24.840
well, you know here we go again people getting
00:40:24.840 --> 00:40:26.920
all worked up about what's gonna end up to be
00:40:26.920 --> 00:40:31.460
nothing These things are huge and they must they
00:40:31.460 --> 00:40:35.300
must be built in order to satisfy the requirement
00:40:35.300 --> 00:40:39.420
for people to Have the things that they wish
00:40:39.420 --> 00:40:41.460
to have at that point. That's quite a bit or
00:40:41.460 --> 00:40:45.309
is this the next calm bubble? Well, I don't know
00:40:45.309 --> 00:40:50.170
about that. I mean, I think AI is here to stay
00:40:50.170 --> 00:40:54.110
for certain. I mean, and here's something else.
00:40:54.730 --> 00:40:58.010
It might make itself stay around. You know, we
00:40:58.010 --> 00:41:00.110
might figure out a way to stay around one way
00:41:00.110 --> 00:41:04.449
or another. You know, at this point, you have
00:41:04.449 --> 00:41:10.389
to really watch AI to use it. Because it really
00:41:10.389 --> 00:41:13.960
doesn't think like you do. but it can do things
00:41:13.960 --> 00:41:16.800
quickly. It wasn't very long ago there was a
00:41:16.800 --> 00:41:20.619
report from the battlefront in Ukraine where
00:41:20.619 --> 00:41:22.900
the Russians used one of these and they just
00:41:22.900 --> 00:41:28.340
let it go on its own AI generated targeting and
00:41:28.340 --> 00:41:31.699
it killed what it wanted to kill without any
00:41:31.699 --> 00:41:34.960
intervention from people whatsoever. I think
00:41:34.960 --> 00:41:36.800
that's probably a lot more of that going on than
00:41:36.800 --> 00:41:40.659
anybody's going to say but you know a Russian
00:41:41.510 --> 00:41:44.670
Anything that comes from Russian, built by Russians,
00:41:45.789 --> 00:41:48.590
and then it's going to make decisions about who
00:41:48.590 --> 00:41:53.469
it's going to kill, bothers me. You know, they
00:41:53.469 --> 00:41:57.469
sort of build junk, and have built junk forever.
00:41:57.829 --> 00:42:03.289
And anytime we meet Russian hardware on the battlefield,
00:42:03.809 --> 00:42:08.000
it ends up in... in the trash heap, they have
00:42:08.000 --> 00:42:10.920
to sell it. There's countries that can't buy
00:42:10.920 --> 00:42:13.460
our stuff, they're not in our orbit, so they
00:42:13.460 --> 00:42:15.480
buy from the Soviets, they buy from the Chinese,
00:42:15.579 --> 00:42:19.239
and then we quickly dispatch it for them. But
00:42:19.239 --> 00:42:22.679
that may not always be the case, if you steal
00:42:22.679 --> 00:42:25.940
this technology, which I hear that the Chinese
00:42:25.940 --> 00:42:28.960
are really busy trying to do, and you can't blame
00:42:28.960 --> 00:42:31.000
them. If you think you're a step behind, you
00:42:31.000 --> 00:42:34.119
better find a way to get in front of this. We
00:42:34.119 --> 00:42:36.900
have people that'll give it to them. Unfortunately,
00:42:37.480 --> 00:42:41.360
that seems to be the case. We'll come back and
00:42:41.360 --> 00:42:45.199
when we do, America does not have to choose between
00:42:45.199 --> 00:42:48.039
AI leadership and affordable electricity. The
00:42:48.039 --> 00:42:51.179
real choice is whether government writes rules
00:42:51.179 --> 00:42:54.480
before the bill arrives or whether it writes
00:42:54.480 --> 00:42:58.079
them after. You're listening to Doc G and the
00:42:58.079 --> 00:43:02.980
Discussance. The discussion continues in just
00:43:02.980 --> 00:43:07.670
a moment. While we take a break, go to docgandthediscussants
00:43:07.670 --> 00:43:11.809
.com. Meet the Discussants, catch another episode,
00:43:12.170 --> 00:43:15.570
support the show, visit the shop, or tell your
00:43:15.570 --> 00:43:19.630
favorite cast member exactly what's on your mind.
00:43:20.349 --> 00:43:24.929
Doc G and the Discussants on sabbatical, back
00:43:24.929 --> 00:43:34.389
after this. If you're looking for the official
00:43:34.389 --> 00:43:36.989
Doc G and the Discussants merchandise, you'll
00:43:36.989 --> 00:43:42.050
find it on our website, DGND .com. Browse our
00:43:42.050 --> 00:43:45.150
sabbatical collection for premium tees, hoodies,
00:43:45.630 --> 00:43:48.309
signature women's v -necks, whiskey rocks glasses,
00:43:48.750 --> 00:43:51.889
distressed ball caps, coffee mugs, and more.
00:43:52.590 --> 00:43:55.489
Everything in the store is something we are proud
00:43:55.489 --> 00:44:00.090
to own ourselves. Take a look at DocchiPodcast
00:44:00.090 --> 00:44:28.599
.com or DocchiAndTheDiscussance .com That's enough.
00:44:29.159 --> 00:44:32.739
Maplehouse coffee. Good coffee. No meeting required.
00:44:36.809 --> 00:44:40.630
At Oak and Iron Home Center, quality still matters.
00:44:41.090 --> 00:44:44.309
From premium mattresses and living room furniture
00:44:44.309 --> 00:44:48.210
to dining sets and home accents, Oak and Iron
00:44:48.210 --> 00:44:51.510
focuses on comfort, durability, and timeless
00:44:51.510 --> 00:44:54.769
design without the pressure and confusion of
00:44:54.769 --> 00:44:58.750
the big box stores. Visit Oak and Iron Home Center
00:44:58.750 --> 00:45:04.789
and see the difference for yourself. Don't you
00:45:04.789 --> 00:45:11.349
wish your life came with a warning app? Just
00:45:11.349 --> 00:45:14.170
a little heads up before something bad happens
00:45:14.170 --> 00:45:26.530
So you can have more control Well life doesn't
00:45:26.530 --> 00:45:28.800
always give you time to change the outcome But
00:45:28.800 --> 00:45:31.920
pre -diabetes does. With early diagnosis and
00:45:31.920 --> 00:45:34.039
a few healthy changes, like managing your weight,
00:45:34.360 --> 00:45:36.639
getting active, stopping smoking, and eating
00:45:36.639 --> 00:45:39.599
healthier, you can stop pre -diabetes before
00:45:39.599 --> 00:45:42.460
it leads to type 2 diabetes. It's easy to learn
00:45:42.460 --> 00:45:45.039
your risk. Take the one -minute test today at
00:45:45.039 --> 00:45:48.900
doihabprediabetes .org. Warning. The cap is loose
00:45:48.900 --> 00:45:53.460
on that catam. Don't wait. You have the power
00:45:53.460 --> 00:45:56.579
to change the outcome. Visit do I have prediabetes
00:45:56.579 --> 00:45:59.920
.org today. That's do I have prediabetes .org
00:45:59.920 --> 00:46:02.159
brought to you by the ad council and its prediabetes
00:46:02.159 --> 00:46:30.099
awareness partners. For example, when we say,
00:46:30.679 --> 00:46:36.460
at the end of the day, it's getting dark outside.
00:46:38.019 --> 00:46:43.539
Now, here's Donkey. As I've said before, he's
00:46:43.539 --> 00:46:46.940
a pet peeve of mine. Seems like every time I
00:46:46.940 --> 00:46:50.199
tune into a news broadcast of any kind, somebody's
00:46:50.199 --> 00:46:51.820
- Well, at the end of the day, then he's got
00:46:51.820 --> 00:46:58.190
himself. Every gosh - darn time, I've got somebody
00:46:58.190 --> 00:47:02.449
saying at the end of the day, like, find something
00:47:02.449 --> 00:47:05.230
else to say, just anything to say, you know,
00:47:05.230 --> 00:47:07.710
when all is said and done, how about that? You
00:47:07.710 --> 00:47:08.909
know, I don't like that. I don't really like
00:47:08.909 --> 00:47:10.929
that either. That's a cliche as well. But at
00:47:10.929 --> 00:47:12.829
the end of the day, I just can't think anything.
00:47:14.409 --> 00:47:17.630
Or when we finish with this process, this is
00:47:17.630 --> 00:47:21.449
what you should look. Why not? There's, there's
00:47:21.449 --> 00:47:25.000
some people who can't go to sentences without
00:47:25.000 --> 00:47:27.739
saying that or... Well, at the end of the day,
00:47:27.900 --> 00:47:32.659
I mean, whatever. Of course, then we get all
00:47:32.659 --> 00:47:35.599
the help that we need from the professor with
00:47:35.599 --> 00:47:41.780
the pet peeve. Well, at the end of the day. So,
00:47:43.199 --> 00:47:47.340
let me again, before we get too far into this
00:47:47.340 --> 00:47:52.550
segment, join us next time for... the gambling
00:47:52.550 --> 00:47:55.429
show, which is something we sort of wanted to
00:47:55.429 --> 00:47:58.670
go on the record with. I think that this is going
00:47:58.670 --> 00:48:03.230
to creep up quickly and surprise a lot of families.
00:48:03.469 --> 00:48:05.250
I think they're going to get surprised. They're
00:48:05.250 --> 00:48:07.460
already going to be surprised. with what's going
00:48:07.460 --> 00:48:09.579
on. So hang around for that. And then the professor
00:48:09.579 --> 00:48:13.500
is going to finish up with the Ozark Music Festival
00:48:13.500 --> 00:48:16.420
that we started last Friday. I'm really looking
00:48:16.420 --> 00:48:18.699
forward to that because we've got some rock and
00:48:18.699 --> 00:48:23.940
roll man rock and roll on a Friday. Yeah. What
00:48:23.940 --> 00:48:27.119
we're doing here isn't easy and it's not a whole
00:48:27.119 --> 00:48:32.440
lot of fun. I thought that this might be helpful
00:48:32.440 --> 00:48:36.219
to people because I didn't really understand
00:48:36.219 --> 00:48:39.239
the scale of this thing before I really got into
00:48:39.239 --> 00:48:41.219
it. I thought, you know, I think there's some
00:48:41.219 --> 00:48:43.260
people out there trying to scare people with
00:48:43.260 --> 00:48:48.380
this, and that may in fact be going on, but these
00:48:48.380 --> 00:48:52.460
are big. And they consume a ton of power. And
00:48:52.460 --> 00:48:54.519
there's really kind of no end in sight. I mean,
00:48:54.619 --> 00:48:57.019
this is the start of it. This is the infancy
00:48:57.019 --> 00:48:59.820
of it. And we're talking about building a lot
00:48:59.820 --> 00:49:04.019
of these data centers. So a new data center can
00:49:04.019 --> 00:49:07.840
support. or contract for new generation. I mean,
00:49:07.840 --> 00:49:10.059
it can support its own generation or contract
00:49:10.059 --> 00:49:13.280
for new. Storage and demand flexibility as well.
00:49:13.619 --> 00:49:17.880
During grid emergencies, large loads can curtail
00:49:17.880 --> 00:49:21.739
or run approved backup resources instead of forcing
00:49:21.739 --> 00:49:25.519
households to observe every shortage. Absorb
00:49:25.519 --> 00:49:29.719
is what I should say, not observe. But who's
00:49:29.719 --> 00:49:33.679
going to absorb it? When you've got a business
00:49:33.679 --> 00:49:37.659
that's contributing this much to the tax base,
00:49:38.019 --> 00:49:41.500
providing this many jobs. They've done a lot
00:49:41.500 --> 00:49:45.380
of lobbying in state houses and at the federal
00:49:45.380 --> 00:49:48.079
level. If they need more electricity, are we
00:49:48.079 --> 00:49:50.199
supposed to leave? They're not going to get it
00:49:50.199 --> 00:49:53.079
and that they're not going to take it out of
00:49:53.079 --> 00:49:56.199
my grid, which is down about, you know, I'm starting
00:49:56.199 --> 00:49:58.420
to wonder if I'm living in a third world nation
00:49:58.420 --> 00:50:02.289
anyway, sometimes around here. We've been out
00:50:02.289 --> 00:50:04.809
without power. It seems like all it takes is
00:50:04.809 --> 00:50:09.530
a decent rainstorm and I'm out of power Now I'm
00:50:09.530 --> 00:50:12.170
I'm headed out to start up the old generator
00:50:12.170 --> 00:50:16.230
and run some you know Electricity or some cords
00:50:16.230 --> 00:50:19.550
through the house to plug in our essential stuff
00:50:19.550 --> 00:50:23.610
So now I've got a Dana sitter next to me and
00:50:23.610 --> 00:50:26.630
if they want the power am I supposed to? Expect
00:50:26.630 --> 00:50:30.349
that I'm going to that mine's gonna be untouched
00:50:30.990 --> 00:50:34.469
Unless the rules are made correctly, I think
00:50:34.469 --> 00:50:37.289
that even if they are, I expect that there's
00:50:37.289 --> 00:50:40.030
going to be some problems. Tell me, man, you're
00:50:40.030 --> 00:50:42.710
going third world. You are going third world.
00:50:43.090 --> 00:50:45.429
It sort of seems like it. I never used to have
00:50:45.429 --> 00:50:49.090
this sort of problem with my electricity before.
00:50:50.309 --> 00:50:53.550
And not to speaking of that, I sort of want to
00:50:53.550 --> 00:50:58.199
finish thoughts here. Not too long ago, I had
00:50:58.199 --> 00:51:02.059
to call and I actually had to contact my senator
00:51:02.059 --> 00:51:05.460
just to get my mail delivered. Right. Yeah. I
00:51:05.460 --> 00:51:08.119
mean, in the United States of America that, you
00:51:08.119 --> 00:51:12.869
know, It originated these sorts of services nationwide.
00:51:13.150 --> 00:51:15.769
I think the Pony Express was actually better
00:51:15.769 --> 00:51:19.010
at getting people their mail than mine was getting
00:51:19.010 --> 00:51:22.329
to me. I couldn't believe it. I had to complain,
00:51:22.329 --> 00:51:24.389
I don't know how many times, to the local office.
00:51:24.570 --> 00:51:27.750
And finally, they said, hey, I guess we'll go
00:51:27.750 --> 00:51:31.769
over your head. Well, boy did I ever. And it
00:51:31.769 --> 00:51:33.989
got straightened out fairly quick. I haven't
00:51:33.989 --> 00:51:35.469
really had a problem for a while, but that's
00:51:35.469 --> 00:51:38.210
what it took. to get the mail. You remember in
00:51:38.210 --> 00:51:41.050
the dark of night, they're supposed to deliver
00:51:41.050 --> 00:51:43.110
it through blizzards and all this kind of, I
00:51:43.110 --> 00:51:46.849
couldn't get it on a regular day at noon. It
00:51:46.849 --> 00:51:50.230
was always in somebody else's box. It never made
00:51:50.230 --> 00:51:54.780
it to mine. That's a whole other show. It's a
00:51:54.780 --> 00:51:58.679
problem. Congress is wrestling with the mail
00:51:58.679 --> 00:52:01.500
and people not getting their mail for a variety
00:52:01.500 --> 00:52:07.380
of reasons, including it being stolen, problems
00:52:07.380 --> 00:52:11.159
at the post office, those sorts of things. So
00:52:11.159 --> 00:52:14.780
the question here is should existing customers,
00:52:15.219 --> 00:52:19.260
should they pay for this speculative demand?
00:52:19.690 --> 00:52:22.750
The company requesting electric and water service,
00:52:23.090 --> 00:52:25.730
should they bear the cost and risk of facilities
00:52:25.730 --> 00:52:28.789
built specifically for it, unless a regulator
00:52:28.789 --> 00:52:32.210
can demonstrate a durable public benefit? You
00:52:32.210 --> 00:52:34.710
know, on the other side, I don't think that we
00:52:34.710 --> 00:52:37.730
should pretend that there's no, you know, upside.
00:52:38.210 --> 00:52:40.929
New customers can strengthen a utility system
00:52:40.929 --> 00:52:44.650
and lower average costs when contracts are enforceable,
00:52:44.869 --> 00:52:48.090
assets are useful, and the customers stay. you
00:52:48.090 --> 00:52:51.309
know stays around to use it so you know there's
00:52:51.309 --> 00:52:54.769
there's positives and minuses here but I thought
00:52:54.769 --> 00:52:57.070
that it's something that people need to know
00:52:57.070 --> 00:52:59.150
about and they need to think about and they need
00:52:59.150 --> 00:53:02.969
to do their own research about because it's coming.
00:53:03.289 --> 00:53:07.090
And we're talking about the very early stages
00:53:07.090 --> 00:53:09.750
of this. Now, one thing that I've noticed over
00:53:09.750 --> 00:53:13.250
the years is that a lot of times technology fixes
00:53:13.250 --> 00:53:16.070
its own problems. What was once a problem in
00:53:16.070 --> 00:53:20.050
heat and with needing a lot of power can then
00:53:20.050 --> 00:53:24.610
sort of go away when we get better technology.
00:53:24.809 --> 00:53:27.730
So technology poses problems, it also fixes them.
00:53:28.250 --> 00:53:31.010
Well, that'll be all worked out. Ultimately,
00:53:31.389 --> 00:53:35.469
in the meanwhile, the citizenry be damned. Well,
00:53:35.550 --> 00:53:39.110
I kind of think that's part of the reason why
00:53:39.110 --> 00:53:42.829
some really conservative legislators and governors
00:53:42.829 --> 00:53:46.429
are starting to worry because they pushed it.
00:53:46.550 --> 00:53:48.869
They really pushed it. They wanted it. They wanted
00:53:48.869 --> 00:53:51.329
it. They wanted it. And I think they're seeing
00:53:51.719 --> 00:53:54.760
that this could cause us a huge political problem
00:53:54.760 --> 00:54:00.380
in fairly short order, unless things are really
00:54:00.380 --> 00:54:05.099
well taken care of. And when you say well taken
00:54:05.099 --> 00:54:09.119
care of, well taken care of, that is so far fetched
00:54:09.119 --> 00:54:11.900
that if it weren't tragic, it would be laughable.
00:54:12.119 --> 00:54:16.519
Well taken care of. Yeah, I think so too. I'm
00:54:16.519 --> 00:54:20.099
trying to be a touch optimistic here, but It's
00:54:20.099 --> 00:54:22.260
like I said a little earlier do I really believe
00:54:22.260 --> 00:54:25.619
that I'm not going to be affected if one of these
00:54:25.619 --> 00:54:28.539
colossal if these colossal thing moves next door
00:54:28.539 --> 00:54:33.539
to me I expect I will be and I expect that it
00:54:33.539 --> 00:54:37.679
won't be in any good way so There are roughly
00:54:37.679 --> 00:54:41.239
300 data centers here in Texas with at least
00:54:41.239 --> 00:54:44.360
a hundred currently under construction with an
00:54:44.360 --> 00:54:47.579
additional hundred more planned and the vast
00:54:47.579 --> 00:54:51.639
majority are powered by fossil fuels. Texas has
00:54:51.639 --> 00:54:55.039
around 80 gigawatts of natural gas power under
00:54:55.039 --> 00:54:58.159
construction, and roughly half of those plants
00:54:58.159 --> 00:55:00.960
will provide power exclusively to data centers,
00:55:01.320 --> 00:55:04.260
without even connecting to Texas' electrical
00:55:04.260 --> 00:55:07.460
grid. Some of these approved sites are massive.
00:55:07.840 --> 00:55:10.380
One approved site in West Texas is slated to
00:55:10.380 --> 00:55:13.619
generate nearly 8 gigawatts alone, making it
00:55:13.619 --> 00:55:16.039
the largest proposed data center in the country.
00:55:16.239 --> 00:55:18.900
That 8 gigawatts is roughly enough to provide
00:55:18.900 --> 00:55:21.780
electricity for more than half the homes in the
00:55:21.780 --> 00:55:25.719
state, but that power will be off the grid, solely
00:55:25.719 --> 00:55:28.960
for one data center. While this so -called behind
00:55:28.960 --> 00:55:31.559
-the -meter strategy can reduce strain on the
00:55:31.559 --> 00:55:34.960
grid and might keep electricity prices down for
00:55:34.960 --> 00:55:38.679
consumers, it also means more power plants emitting
00:55:38.679 --> 00:55:41.960
more harmful pollutants across the state. The
00:55:41.960 --> 00:55:44.079
companies building these data centers almost
00:55:44.079 --> 00:55:47.039
always promise that they'll use renewables or
00:55:47.039 --> 00:55:49.880
nuclear when they announce their projects. But
00:55:49.880 --> 00:55:52.519
when you look at the data, most of what's actually
00:55:52.519 --> 00:55:55.579
being built right now is powered entirely by
00:55:55.579 --> 00:55:59.099
natural gas. It will be at least 2028 before
00:55:59.099 --> 00:56:03.039
renewables power AI at any real scale and new
00:56:03.039 --> 00:56:06.239
nuclear plants are a decade or more away. So
00:56:06.239 --> 00:56:10.059
a decade away even though there's at least 300
00:56:10.059 --> 00:56:14.400
of them being built in just Texas. So I really
00:56:14.400 --> 00:56:18.000
hope that this helps. our audience to understand
00:56:18.000 --> 00:56:21.820
the scale of what's going on out there. It just
00:56:21.820 --> 00:56:24.219
depressed me. It's a frustrating thing. I feel
00:56:24.219 --> 00:56:26.679
worse than before the show. Yeah, we didn't even
00:56:26.679 --> 00:56:29.639
talk about the water usage. Well, we did. A little
00:56:29.639 --> 00:56:32.199
bit. Yeah, a little bit, but not not to the degree
00:56:32.199 --> 00:56:36.000
that it can happen. So but I thought it was something
00:56:36.000 --> 00:56:40.360
everybody's talking about. It can't walk by a
00:56:40.360 --> 00:56:42.739
television without some sort of report about,
00:56:42.739 --> 00:56:46.750
you know, data centers and This is us trying
00:56:46.750 --> 00:56:50.250
to give you a little heads up about maybe what
00:56:50.250 --> 00:56:53.250
you should start your own research. Think about
00:56:53.250 --> 00:56:57.530
these things for yourself and maybe forecast
00:56:57.530 --> 00:57:01.510
what you can do about it. Don't forget, on Wednesday
00:57:01.510 --> 00:57:03.829
it's going to be a gambling show. We've got a
00:57:03.829 --> 00:57:05.309
lot of young people that are starting to take
00:57:05.309 --> 00:57:07.750
on a lot of debt because of gambling. You're
00:57:07.750 --> 00:57:10.130
listening to Doc G and the Discusses. This program
00:57:10.130 --> 00:57:14.070
is finished. The argument certainly is not. There
00:57:14.070 --> 00:57:17.630
are more episodes to hear, more ideas to challenge,
00:57:18.150 --> 00:57:21.409
and more opportunities to tell us exactly what
00:57:21.409 --> 00:57:25.769
you think. Visit docg and the discussants dot
00:57:25.769 --> 00:57:29.809
com. Meet the gang, leave a comment, suggest
00:57:29.809 --> 00:57:33.329
a show, drop something into Doc's gripe box,
00:57:33.730 --> 00:57:36.789
support the program, check out the sponsorship
00:57:36.789 --> 00:57:40.369
opportunities, and while you're there, you may
00:57:40.369 --> 00:57:45.030
as well visit the shop. docg and the discussants
00:57:45.030 --> 00:57:48.030
.com. We'll see you next time.