Table Talk - Interview with Johnny Stanton IV

WEBVTT
00:05.400 --> 00:13.206
[SPEAKER_00]: Hello and welcome to Table Talk, a show where I chat with other creators in the TTRPG space about how they run their tables.
00:13.806 --> 00:32.121
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm Danger'd Andrews, the GM and host of D&D Ark, and joining us at the table today is former fallback for the Cleveland Browns host of the Athletics Check podcast and a GM who's been involved with Critical Role, Dropout TV, Friday Bears, Dungeons & Cabins, and soon to be involved with Nat-22ers, Johnny Stanton IV.
00:32.761 --> 00:33.121
[SPEAKER_01]: Hello.
00:33.141 --> 00:34.522
[SPEAKER_01]: What's up, Dan?
00:34.542 --> 00:35.963
[SPEAKER_01]: You kind of buried the lead here.
00:36.023 --> 00:38.305
[SPEAKER_01]: I was the DM for the sandworms.
00:38.605 --> 00:40.427
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's what I'll be the most known for.
00:40.907 --> 00:41.647
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, certainly.
00:42.048 --> 00:47.732
[SPEAKER_00]: For any of our listeners who were not involved with Dungeons & Cappens, Johnny was my GM for this year's event.
00:47.972 --> 00:50.374
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was an incredible time.
00:50.914 --> 00:52.176
[SPEAKER_01]: We had our laughs.
00:52.216 --> 00:53.057
[SPEAKER_01]: We had our tears.
00:53.197 --> 00:55.359
[SPEAKER_01]: We had our blood sweating and all such.
00:55.760 --> 00:56.841
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was a great time.
00:57.261 --> 01:04.810
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, your character was hilarious and ended up I think corny in the mascot for our sand to party as the sand worms.
01:04.870 --> 01:05.711
[SPEAKER_01]: It was such a good time.
01:06.111 --> 01:06.731
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
01:06.971 --> 01:10.453
[SPEAKER_00]: I, uh, this year in particular will hold a very special place for me.
01:10.473 --> 01:12.294
[SPEAKER_00]: I brought a few people who hadn't been before.
01:12.794 --> 01:21.378
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I not only had a great time myself, but vicariously through my friends who were first timers, it was re-experencing that joy all over again.
01:21.738 --> 01:23.179
[SPEAKER_01]: who's one of their characters I did kill.
01:23.419 --> 01:26.761
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think it was the only character to actually be like killed.
01:26.881 --> 01:27.261
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't.
01:27.281 --> 01:33.064
[SPEAKER_01]: There was somebody else I think who sacrificed themselves, but this was by no means voluntary.
01:33.685 --> 01:35.546
[SPEAKER_01]: I definitely killed her character.
01:35.786 --> 01:37.727
[SPEAKER_01]: It was great narratively though.
01:38.107 --> 01:38.567
[SPEAKER_01]: It was fun.
01:38.848 --> 01:42.129
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't go out by any means and I'm sure we'll get into this.
01:42.169 --> 01:45.691
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't go into any game attempting to kill any characters.
01:45.711 --> 01:46.532
[SPEAKER_01]: And I feel like they're probably
01:48.533 --> 01:53.117
[SPEAKER_01]: by no means am I interested in doing that, but I feel like it called for it a little bit.
01:53.217 --> 01:57.500
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like the stakes needed to be placed and this was just straight up in combat.
01:57.520 --> 01:58.841
[SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't like a, oh, you die.
01:58.861 --> 02:03.525
[SPEAKER_01]: This was a death saves were rolled and bad luck was had.
02:03.745 --> 02:06.006
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, sometimes the dice just aren't on your side.
02:06.286 --> 02:10.748
[SPEAKER_00]: And I really think it made for a very full-filling narrative.
02:11.248 --> 02:13.569
[SPEAKER_00]: And like you said, the stakes needed to be there.
02:14.049 --> 02:18.471
[SPEAKER_00]: And it felt very tense, which was very thrilling to play through.
02:18.491 --> 02:21.812
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I mean, all of you guys made it such an awesome experience.
02:22.152 --> 02:23.712
[SPEAKER_01]: And like, it texted you after camp.
02:24.073 --> 02:29.195
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd play with you guys a million out of a million times that had 200 session long campaign.
02:29.335 --> 02:30.215
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, let's make it happen.
02:30.615 --> 02:32.856
[SPEAKER_00]: absolutely incredible table all around.
02:33.436 --> 02:42.858
[SPEAKER_00]: So to get us started, can you tell us a bit about how you got involved with TTRPGs and about just the general things that you do in the space?
02:43.478 --> 02:48.120
[SPEAKER_01]: So I got into TTRPGs honestly through comics when I was in college.
02:48.340 --> 02:48.520
[SPEAKER_01]: So
02:49.280 --> 03:01.967
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, growing up I was always into sports, if there was something I was nerdy about, it was the Los Angeles Dodgers or the LA Lakers and just what I was really interested in, which was sports.
03:02.668 --> 03:10.812
[SPEAKER_01]: And it took me until I think it was really tearing my ACL in high school and having to step away from the sport for a while to
03:12.033 --> 03:23.424
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd say this in a TEDx talk that I did a couple years ago with this was kind of like the main point that I was trying to get across was a really forced me to take a step away from what my identity was and discover more about myself.
03:24.545 --> 03:29.330
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's when I learned that I'm way more of a nerd than I think sports can fulfill for me.
03:29.910 --> 03:32.053
[SPEAKER_01]: So comics was my first step into that.
03:32.133 --> 03:43.367
[SPEAKER_01]: So I was huge DC Comics fan going to the comic book shop every Wednesday and then at some point some YouTube rabbit hole I found myself in around like 2016 probably.
03:45.349 --> 03:54.192
[SPEAKER_01]: I found myself wanting to play Dungeons & Dragons and my local comic shop, I talked to one of the folks that worked there and they said, yeah, we actually had a group that just started.
03:54.212 --> 03:58.153
[SPEAKER_01]: They planned Sundays, which was perfect for me because college football plays on Saturdays.
03:58.193 --> 04:00.954
[SPEAKER_01]: We had to have Sunday off and then go into filming workouts on Monday.
04:01.494 --> 04:07.256
[SPEAKER_01]: So Sunday was like one of my only days off and I figured D&D would be as good of a way to spend it as any.
04:07.956 --> 04:10.937
[SPEAKER_01]: And as much fun as I had, I fell in love with it first off.
04:13.618 --> 04:31.569
[SPEAKER_01]: This is going to be a much more fulfilling opportunity for me when I actually get to play with people that I know that I have like an existing rapport with and can if you're really comfortable with as opposed to like add a table in a comic book shop with a bunch of folks that just like happened to be interested in playing D&D as well.
04:31.789 --> 04:35.552
[SPEAKER_01]: Those folks were great, but that's when I realized I want to play with people that I know.
04:35.592 --> 04:39.195
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's when I started recruiting teammates from my college football team to play with me.
04:39.215 --> 04:44.980
[SPEAKER_01]: We're in a very short, uneducated, like, you know, unprepared game for them.
04:45.220 --> 04:47.342
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I did something similar when I was with the Browns.
04:47.682 --> 04:50.584
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's how people ended up getting to know me.
04:50.644 --> 04:51.065
[SPEAKER_01]: Was that I,
04:51.545 --> 05:06.393
[SPEAKER_01]: score to touch down on Thursday and I football right before a critical roll shirt to the game, decided to announce later on that I ran D&D for some of my Brown teammates, including all defensive everything Miles Garrett, who's a buddy of mine, and from that point on its history.
05:06.733 --> 05:19.924
[SPEAKER_00]: Just for the fun and the hell of it, do you remember either does not have to be your first campaign, but like the first significant campaign, what was the like most significant memory you have of the one that like made you fall in love with the hobby?
05:20.244 --> 05:27.310
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think what really made me fall in love with it was, as I mentioned, getting to run for my friends and teammates.
05:27.670 --> 05:43.326
[SPEAKER_01]: from that original group that I was playing in, I learned about the adventures on, which is what really unlocked everything for me as like D&D as a narrative, which I'm sure it did for a lot of people, which is fun now, because now I can consider a couple of the McRoy members family there.
05:43.906 --> 05:47.129
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm in a fantasy football leagues with a couple of them, and they're really good folks.
05:47.770 --> 06:07.517
[SPEAKER_01]: But that is what I think inspired me to run my own game, which is basically a risky inversion of the kind of video game nature that Griffin ran for the adventure zone that I tried to use as like the core conceit for my own game, which really we got like less than 10 sessions in, they went the way of most D&D's campaigns go.
06:07.577 --> 06:10.138
[SPEAKER_01]: And it just kind of fell apart when we moved away from each other.
06:10.838 --> 06:37.234
[SPEAKER_01]: But the adventure zone was the basis for what I ran that first campaign on in terms of like having a set of my guffins I kind of I think I like set all of the my guffins to be surrounding the alignment chart which I thought was kind of cool like there's a different crystal that was supposed to represent each like lawfulness chaos good and evil and if you were to like behold it or the people who that they're trying to get it from.
06:37.534 --> 06:40.895
[SPEAKER_01]: the people who beheld it there were like affected by its power.
06:40.955 --> 06:42.875
[SPEAKER_01]: So like the chaos would affect you in different way.
06:42.955 --> 06:52.638
[SPEAKER_01]: Laughfulness would like force you to like listen to whatever I forget exactly what it was but it was my first experience of actually like I never I didn't grow up with any kind of creative outlet really like sports.
06:53.118 --> 06:54.718
[SPEAKER_01]: You can kind of think about it creatively.
06:54.938 --> 07:00.420
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think that anybody who would see me played football would think that like oh that's like an artist at work.
07:00.940 --> 07:02.481
[SPEAKER_01]: I never really had the creative outlet.
07:02.701 --> 07:05.283
[SPEAKER_01]: So D&D was suddenly my creative outlet.
07:05.563 --> 07:11.887
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's why I feel like DMing is, while I have, I think, more fun as a player because you're experiencing it.
07:12.107 --> 07:15.029
[SPEAKER_01]: It's being thrust onto you and you're going to go long for the right.
07:15.550 --> 07:17.451
[SPEAKER_01]: But as a DM, it's way more fulfilling.
07:17.831 --> 07:23.035
[SPEAKER_01]: That was my first experience with the fulfillment of getting to tell a story.
07:23.415 --> 07:24.656
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was like a drug after that.
07:25.314 --> 07:26.755
[SPEAKER_00]: I get that a hundred percent.
07:26.995 --> 07:30.198
[SPEAKER_00]: I also prefer DMing to playing.
07:30.358 --> 07:37.663
[SPEAKER_00]: I have a ton of fun and either see, but kind of like how you fell into it with the adventure zone for me what brought me in was Dungeons and Datties.
07:38.043 --> 07:48.491
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah, I had a couple of co-worker friends who were big on it and I was like, had done a one shot hero there, but not really involved in D&D that much.
07:48.731 --> 07:50.332
[SPEAKER_00]: This would have been around 2020.
07:51.753 --> 07:59.293
[SPEAKER_01]: I was going to ask, when did you start listening to Dungeons and Daddies because there's a good chance that you heard my name, a whole lot sooner than you thought you did.
07:59.698 --> 08:01.898
[SPEAKER_00]: I started listening around 2020.
08:01.938 --> 08:09.980
[SPEAKER_01]: I think they had just finished season one because I submitted and got two magic items into Dungeons and Datties.
08:10.380 --> 08:11.140
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's awesome.
08:11.380 --> 08:12.181
[SPEAKER_00]: Which ones were they?
08:12.461 --> 08:18.742
[SPEAKER_01]: So every once in a while, I'll get tagged on social media from somebody who's listening to season one of Dungeons and Datties for the first time.
08:19.002 --> 08:20.862
[SPEAKER_01]: Saying holy shit, giant stand is like you.
08:21.222 --> 08:24.183
[SPEAKER_01]: The first one that I submitted was the kiss the cook grill.
08:24.703 --> 08:32.172
[SPEAKER_01]: which they ended up finding as a prize in the like Chuck E. Cheese kids fighting ring or something like that.
08:32.192 --> 08:37.098
[SPEAKER_01]: The paid was in and they didn't ever end up using it, but I loved the fact that like they were really excited about it.
08:37.398 --> 08:41.383
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the last one was the John Deer lawnmower.
08:41.723 --> 08:45.607
[SPEAKER_01]: which ended up becoming core to Walter the Amoral.
08:45.888 --> 08:47.089
[SPEAKER_01]: It ended up becoming his legs.
08:47.509 --> 08:59.562
[SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, I submitted that one, because I just thought, like, what's a fun, like, dad-esque item for both of those that you can throw into the campaign, and they got picked up by Anthony, and I very friendly and hung out with Beth May a number of times.
08:59.582 --> 09:00.243
[SPEAKER_01]: She's awesome.
09:00.283 --> 09:00.944
[SPEAKER_01]: She's hilarious.
09:01.404 --> 09:03.906
[SPEAKER_01]: and then the rest of the folks have been able to meet once or twice.
09:04.266 --> 09:08.729
[SPEAKER_01]: Dungeon and Datties is such a fun way of like reimagining the D&D story.
09:09.109 --> 09:13.773
[SPEAKER_01]: If you are experienced with just like in a night culture and storytelling and like the S.A.K.I.
09:14.033 --> 09:18.476
[SPEAKER_01]: trope is everywhere and had been done before in D&D.
09:18.496 --> 09:23.840
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure a million times but never to that level of success and Dungeon and Datties is awesome.
09:24.238 --> 09:24.578
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
09:24.698 --> 09:31.021
[SPEAKER_00]: It was what got a group of my work friends involved, putting together what turned into our first campaign.
09:31.522 --> 09:34.763
[SPEAKER_00]: It was hard of the Dragon Queen and Rise of Tiamat.
09:35.204 --> 09:36.444
[SPEAKER_00]: Jordan was the DM for that.
09:36.984 --> 09:38.145
[SPEAKER_00]: And great time.
09:38.185 --> 09:42.447
[SPEAKER_00]: That was my first real toe dip into the TTRPG space.
09:42.867 --> 09:47.590
[SPEAKER_00]: And I had had very little experience doing that when wanting to like run my own stuff.
09:48.230 --> 10:00.697
[SPEAKER_00]: and was encouraged by some friends to just dive in head first and learn on Mike, which I have mixed feelings about, but jumped into DM and my first campaign as the first season of D&D.
10:00.837 --> 10:01.077
[SPEAKER_00]: Nice.
10:01.497 --> 10:09.822
[SPEAKER_00]: Since then, I've run a bunch of stuff in other things, and I've really enjoyed everything I could sync my teeth into, both on and off Mike.
10:10.242 --> 10:13.484
[SPEAKER_00]: I do get a little bit more narrative fulfillment
10:15.605 --> 10:19.389
[SPEAKER_00]: have had some incredible moments of supplier that just really stick with me.
10:19.469 --> 10:22.232
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's tons of value on both sides of that.
10:22.492 --> 10:28.098
[SPEAKER_00]: And I find that the more that I do of one seat, the better that I get at the other.
10:28.399 --> 10:31.482
[SPEAKER_01]: I was just going to say the best the best ones at both do both.
10:31.762 --> 10:31.942
[SPEAKER_01]: So.
10:32.603 --> 10:41.226
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that people who play should absolutely, it's why I think it's way more important for people who play to experience DMing to kind of understand the amount of work that goes into that.
10:41.947 --> 10:47.729
[SPEAKER_01]: And as a DM, you have to have a story told to you so you don't get caught up with the whole writing a novel.
10:48.089 --> 10:49.650
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
10:50.510 --> 10:51.831
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, I fully agree.
10:52.311 --> 11:12.160
[SPEAKER_00]: So with your approach to the table, from my experience with the one campaign that we did for Dungeons and Cabins, I would kind of describe your style as being generally tough but fair, how I phrased it to some other people when like relaying what the week was, was that you don't pull your punches, but you also don't let your players pull their punches either.
11:12.940 --> 11:36.756
[SPEAKER_00]: So in how you approach your table, what sort of things have affected your style, your sensibilities, where you kind of draw that line and what kinds of things you bring into your table, both like narratively and mechanically, are there other games you've played aside from D&D that like that system hasn't formed some of the rules you bring in anything along those lines.
11:37.275 --> 11:48.366
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think the thing that is affected and inspired my DMing as a whole has been the fact that a lot of my DMing ends up being two new players.
11:48.886 --> 11:54.932
[SPEAKER_01]: So as I mentioned, I introduced teammates, both in college and in the pros, two Dunst Dragons, and you have to end up.
11:55.172 --> 12:17.482
[SPEAKER_01]: telling a specific kind of story when you're doing that, you can lean in on tropes a little bit more, which is nice, but you also have to spoon feed a certain amount to these players, because they're not necessarily going to learn the character sheet in the same way, especially if you are the driving force into like who is playing the Indian when you're playing and how often, who's often times I end up.
12:17.742 --> 12:19.183
[SPEAKER_01]: being for better for worse.
12:19.624 --> 12:26.010
[SPEAKER_01]: So the fact that I that I run so much for new players ends up being something that I have adapted to.
12:26.450 --> 12:37.620
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think I told you guys during our session zero for Dungeons and Cappens that I was very much looking forward to getting to run for experience players, people who know how to use their character sheets and like all the tools that you're disposal.
12:38.021 --> 12:39.942
[SPEAKER_01]: But I do think that when I
12:40.543 --> 12:45.924
[SPEAKER_01]: They run for players who are new, oftentimes I have to remind them about some of the things they can do.
12:46.544 --> 12:50.445
[SPEAKER_01]: And oftentimes that gets me excited about something cool that they can do.
12:50.905 --> 12:54.486
[SPEAKER_01]: And I kind of push them to do that, which, again, is something that I think is great.
12:54.806 --> 12:55.607
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes it's needed.
12:55.707 --> 13:00.508
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes I do end up dictating too much at the table, which is something that I want to get better at.
13:00.528 --> 13:05.069
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll watch the look at some of the comments for the Friday beers, games, people will say like I'm railroading.
13:05.089 --> 13:09.970
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, well, I know for a fact, I'm not railroading, but also I know that I definitely
13:11.050 --> 13:13.552
[SPEAKER_01]: to the effect that like they are complaining about it.
13:13.572 --> 13:15.874
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, yeah, it's for camera.
13:16.354 --> 13:17.975
[SPEAKER_01]: Some of it has to be planned.
13:18.015 --> 13:19.757
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I got this whole battle map.
13:19.957 --> 13:27.622
[SPEAKER_01]: I had a dwarven forge flying a battle map so that we could get it set up and like, you know, you use the actual map that we're going to use.
13:27.642 --> 13:28.563
[SPEAKER_01]: And you got many's painted.
13:28.883 --> 13:31.825
[SPEAKER_01]: Like we're gonna set it up in a way that I prepared it.
13:32.346 --> 13:35.528
[SPEAKER_01]: How we get there isn't known to anybody.
13:35.848 --> 13:43.751
[SPEAKER_01]: But I do end up like, if it's a round and combat, I'll tell them, they're like, oh, you can do this thing to make you feel cooler, make you feel more powerful.
13:44.291 --> 13:47.012
[SPEAKER_01]: So when you say, like, I'm tough but fair, I appreciate that.
13:47.052 --> 13:48.713
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that is something that I want to be.
13:49.093 --> 13:54.635
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to be somebody who enforces the rules, while still adhering to the rule of
13:58.596 --> 14:07.141
[SPEAKER_01]: creativity to dictate what actually happens at the table and then when there is a question you kind of rely on like what has been told before.
14:07.541 --> 14:26.532
[SPEAKER_01]: So you know like we mentioned that we had a character death and that was a situation which I had to there was consistent damage like area of effect damage that was happening that's gonna knock your death saves down and otherwise she was rolling pretty well but it just so happened that she got hit three times that she was unable to
14:28.553 --> 14:40.682
[SPEAKER_01]: It was tough, but those moments of sadness, those moments of an obstacle winning that clash between what you want to do and what something else is stopping you.
14:41.042 --> 14:48.568
[SPEAKER_01]: When those moments that you lose the battle, it makes winning the war feel that much better, which is why I think being tough.
14:48.588 --> 14:54.512
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's why I have to remind myself, and remind my wife, Maddie, when I run team to you for especially early on, was that,
14:55.032 --> 15:00.973
[SPEAKER_01]: she would get upset at times when I would run a game and they would run into obstacles.
15:01.554 --> 15:09.456
[SPEAKER_01]: And she wouldn't actually be upset, but she would be like venting and stuff and say, like, oh, why do you have to keep us from getting to XYZ?
15:09.996 --> 15:18.898
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you realize that I'm setting up all these obstacles for you to feel the fulfillment and the success and the excitement of overcoming those obstacles.
15:19.238 --> 15:26.785
[SPEAKER_01]: And yes, you are going to lose five, 10 battles before you win the one battle that actually matters.
15:26.966 --> 15:39.258
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the balancing act, those that you have to eke out those successes and the joy and the minor victories, the small victories so that all of those failures and all of those losses
15:39.758 --> 15:43.899
[SPEAKER_01]: don't deter you from continuing to fight because I've been in those campaigns.
15:43.959 --> 15:49.880
[SPEAKER_01]: I've been in games in which every single victory is undercut by a larger loss.
15:50.360 --> 15:54.561
[SPEAKER_01]: When it's undercut by the larger loss, I doesn't feel like a victory anymore and you don't get to revel in it.
15:54.922 --> 16:00.343
[SPEAKER_01]: You have to be able to revel in success so that the failures hurt that much more.
16:01.103 --> 16:03.984
[SPEAKER_01]: So that the greater success feels that much better.
16:04.244 --> 16:07.484
[SPEAKER_01]: It's this roller coaster that you're trying to level out
16:09.885 --> 16:18.569
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you continue just having the rising action, continue and to go up, continue to go up, then you're never going to have the excitement of that sudden downturn.
16:18.889 --> 16:19.990
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, absolutely.
16:20.370 --> 16:20.650
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
16:20.850 --> 16:24.031
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's what I try to remember when I'm running games.
16:24.091 --> 16:28.373
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, okay, what is the hardest thing that this character would have to deal with right now?
16:28.674 --> 16:30.835
[SPEAKER_01]: What is the one thing that they just say?
16:30.995 --> 16:35.477
[SPEAKER_01]: I just hope that he doesn't catch or doesn't make me face whatever.
16:35.737 --> 16:38.298
[SPEAKER_01]: And I want to try to just kind of push it that.
16:38.638 --> 16:43.461
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I personally find the sweet spot that I aim for most of the time.
16:43.521 --> 16:48.324
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes I want to throw my players an easy win to give them an opportunity to flex a little bit.
16:48.384 --> 16:51.486
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes I will kind of grind them into the dirt.
16:51.847 --> 17:00.673
[SPEAKER_00]: But generally what I aim for maybe like 80% of the time is I try to get them to win by the skin of their teeth.
17:00.953 --> 17:01.233
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah.
17:01.693 --> 17:18.538
[SPEAKER_00]: Those are to me as a player the most satisfying encounters are the ones that we just barely pull through and I've had experience in campaigns where there is a little bit too much of that and so it is necessary for some of that catharsis for a moment for the players to feel like they are powerful.
17:18.758 --> 17:29.510
[SPEAKER_01]: And the worst thing that you feel as a DM is when the players realize that you are trying to manipulate things in a way to have it happen by the skin of their teeth.
17:29.851 --> 17:36.739
[SPEAKER_01]: Because then, that can sometimes lose their trust a little bit, whether it's, oh, they're about to lose this fight.
17:37.079 --> 17:37.840
[SPEAKER_01]: I need to...
17:38.841 --> 17:46.726
[SPEAKER_01]: maybe Deus Ex Machina or give them that much more of like a little boost or the fact that like, oh, they're kicking ass.
17:46.746 --> 17:50.769
[SPEAKER_01]: This fight, I really need to introduce something to kind of shake it up a little bit.
17:51.089 --> 17:52.290
[SPEAKER_01]: Those things happen, right?
17:52.650 --> 17:55.712
[SPEAKER_01]: But when they constantly happen, that's when it's tough.
17:55.753 --> 17:56.193
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's why
17:56.553 --> 18:17.485
[SPEAKER_01]: And honestly, what I try to do when I'm running games is nine times at a ten when you think that all is lost for the players and you're like, oh shoot, I'm really on a fast track to TPK or I'm a fast track to like having an untimely death, the players have so much more luck on your side than you do as a DM.
18:17.745 --> 18:23.069
[SPEAKER_01]: like they are going to figure out, they've been holding on to their magic items, their health potions.
18:23.409 --> 18:25.351
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the time for them to use it.
18:25.671 --> 18:27.913
[SPEAKER_01]: They've been holding on to that fourth level spell slot.
18:28.053 --> 18:29.514
[SPEAKER_01]: They haven't been wanting to use it.
18:29.754 --> 18:32.636
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they're like, oh, fine, okay, I have to use it.
18:32.996 --> 18:34.237
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's when the tides turn.
18:34.257 --> 18:36.879
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's when you remember as a DM, I'm like, oh, that's right.
18:37.199 --> 18:39.441
[SPEAKER_01]: That's why I have to just trust my gut.
18:39.541 --> 18:45.626
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's the thing that I've learned as a DM is stop trying to put your finger on the scale.
18:46.186 --> 18:58.274
[SPEAKER_01]: allow it to play out because when they do end up overcoming and winning by the skin of their teeth without you even touching anything and without you having to mess with it, it can allow you to build up your own confidence as a DM.
18:58.294 --> 19:07.340
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I did prepare combat that actually was fulfilling and that is cathartic and built up good stakes and at a great climax.
19:07.700 --> 19:25.340
[SPEAKER_01]: and the players get to build up their own confidence as well because when they feel like all is lost and all is not lost and that just continues to grow the hero's journey of like them realizing that it might seem overwhelming odds at this point but just chip away at that HP and it's going to go down at some point.
19:25.680 --> 19:26.280
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
19:26.560 --> 19:32.701
[SPEAKER_00]: A funny back and forth that I have with my players very often is they will throw at me in between sessions.
19:33.101 --> 19:34.442
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you crazy?
19:34.802 --> 19:41.763
[SPEAKER_00]: But they consistently manage to pull through and some of the best moments are the ones that really have caught me by surprise.
19:42.203 --> 19:49.165
[SPEAKER_00]: I try to in the effect of what you were saying of the players kind of feeling you nudging the scales, being kind of a
19:51.245 --> 20:02.235
[SPEAKER_00]: I try to calibrate the difficulty beforehand and then whatever happens happens, I try as little as possible to adjust once things are already going.
20:02.836 --> 20:06.019
[SPEAKER_00]: Once the first attack goes, I am not nerfing what the damage is.
20:06.039 --> 20:06.519
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
20:06.780 --> 20:10.103
[SPEAKER_00]: I am free to nerf or buff this attack before the fight starts.
20:10.523 --> 20:12.144
[SPEAKER_00]: Once it starts, it is what it is.
20:12.405 --> 20:12.605
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
20:12.905 --> 20:15.806
[SPEAKER_00]: and if it hits too hard, the players will figure it out.
20:15.966 --> 20:21.409
[SPEAKER_00]: If it doesn't hit hard enough, then they'll get one over on me and have really good gloating rights for a little while.
20:21.509 --> 20:21.689
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
20:22.069 --> 20:24.510
[SPEAKER_00]: Part of it too is different considerations for different tables.
20:24.850 --> 20:33.734
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of the times I will know what the players have at their disposal and I've been in the situations of like, okay, I know you have that iron flask with a beholder in it.
20:34.094 --> 20:35.136
[SPEAKER_00]: I gave that to you.
20:35.316 --> 20:36.257
[SPEAKER_00]: You haven't used it.
20:36.377 --> 20:42.425
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm trying to push you to where you'd feel the need to use it, because I need this item to hit the board.
20:42.765 --> 20:46.490
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, things like that are my kind of philosophy.
20:46.510 --> 20:52.778
[SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of it, too, is I will kind of adjust what my preferences for the table are, the more games that I've played.
20:52.978 --> 20:59.682
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah, recently we've done a bunch of stuff where we've dabbled in some more rules light and some more rules heavy systems.
21:00.442 --> 21:08.286
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's a lot of things that I love that are unique to individual systems that I will tend to port over home-rewise.
21:08.667 --> 21:15.030
[SPEAKER_00]: The big one that I really sunk my teeth into lately that I just absolutely love because it adjusts the feeling
21:18.452 --> 21:24.736
[SPEAKER_00]: This has been specific to Pathfinder so far because that's what we've been playing for our second season and that's kind of the system that I've more shifted towards.
21:25.377 --> 21:31.061
[SPEAKER_00]: In Pathfinder, there's no equivalent to legendary actions or layer actions or the like that bosses will get.
21:31.601 --> 21:39.347
[SPEAKER_00]: In their place, I've taken a thing from the Alien TTRPG where the Xenomorphs have multiple turns per round.
21:40.167 --> 21:50.719
[SPEAKER_00]: I started doing that to kind of fill the gap of legendary actions of having my boss monsters role initiative twice and they're in the initiative order two times they get multiple moves.
21:50.739 --> 21:57.647
[SPEAKER_00]: They get to do more of what they can and it doesn't drag the fight out the way that like inflating the HP pool does.
21:58.288 --> 22:09.160
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, D&D has, if you really stick with what rules is written, D&D has limited resources to make fights more difficult.
22:09.500 --> 22:12.744
[SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of times it's only like two numbers that you can raise.
22:12.804 --> 22:17.830
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're set on what the bickering parties are and know that like, okay, well, they're all going to team up on this one guy.
22:18.230 --> 22:19.111
[SPEAKER_01]: There's two things I can do.
22:19.151 --> 22:19.631
[SPEAKER_01]: I can make.
22:20.152 --> 22:47.718
[SPEAKER_01]: my HP higher and that can be a effect of a lot of things that can be resistances that can also be slowing down a fight, the by casting certain debuff spells or weakening them and not allowing them to deal as much damage so that that's another way of, do I make this last longer or do I make this last a lot shorter by upping the damage, you know, having more powerful spells and it takes some creativity to kind of figure out, okay, what are the ways that I can affect this fight outside of that?
22:48.077 --> 23:14.023
[SPEAKER_01]: That's why I think that relying on the narrative of it all really helps it because when the narrative is really there, you can kind of figure out, okay, well, what makes sense, the more that you're really like diving into this character, it just allows for a lot more creativity to realize, oh, well, maybe this reason why he's really getting on this one character's nerves is because he has a certain ability that's going to like come up in a fight and
23:14.563 --> 23:30.797
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's why I think you got to go narrative role play focused to dictate what the actual combat looks like and have it be tied in so that it doesn't feel like, you know, I follow into it, you're having narrative sessions versus combat sessions.
23:31.097 --> 23:37.162
[SPEAKER_01]: But the more that you can make combat session feel narrative, the more successful as a DM, I think you are.
23:37.698 --> 23:44.161
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, very much so I love messing around with alternate wind conditions based on what the narrative calls for.
23:44.461 --> 23:52.004
[SPEAKER_00]: I actually earlier today, we were recording an episode for our show where we were doing an arena fight surrounded by an audience.
23:52.704 --> 23:59.227
[SPEAKER_00]: And the core of the fight was within X amount of rounds, your goal is not to win the fight, but to win the audience.
23:59.707 --> 24:04.129
[SPEAKER_00]: So be as flashy and make it as big of a spectacle as you possibly can.
24:04.149 --> 24:04.609
[SPEAKER_00]: I like that.
24:04.629 --> 24:05.650
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to steal that.
24:05.910 --> 24:10.192
[SPEAKER_00]: So I love approaching fights from that kind of angle, doing things like that.
24:10.373 --> 24:18.537
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of the classics of like surviving for X amount of rounds or get the item and get out those types of things.
24:18.637 --> 24:23.980
[SPEAKER_00]: I try to mix those in as often as I can to just to get a bunch of variety.
24:24.260 --> 24:29.603
[SPEAKER_00]: And there is still a lot of fun with the classic reduce the boss to 0 HP in my opinion.
24:29.643 --> 24:31.064
[SPEAKER_00]: I think every fight.
24:31.484 --> 24:36.767
[SPEAKER_01]: should have an alternate wind condition that doesn't include all enemies go to zero HP.
24:37.308 --> 24:52.798
[SPEAKER_01]: The only time that you should allow yourself to fall back on the enemies go to zero HP and that means you win is the fights that have the most stakes, the most buildup, the enemies that have the most
24:53.478 --> 25:00.020
[SPEAKER_01]: hatred and notes taken about them and thought spent outside of the game thinking about, okay, how are we going to kill this one?
25:00.361 --> 25:12.325
[SPEAKER_01]: Because that is how you build the tension and getting that character to zero HP is tantamount to like the most catharsis you can have.
25:12.765 --> 25:20.752
[SPEAKER_01]: outside of that, I think that there is, if you just come across some random monster on the road, that's why I don't like random encounters in D&D.
25:20.852 --> 25:26.357
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't like the old school D&D where you go through different rooms, you fight something, you move on to the next room.
25:26.917 --> 25:30.420
[SPEAKER_01]: I think every combat needs to
25:33.843 --> 25:40.129
[SPEAKER_01]: for it happening, everything needs to have a reason in story for why it's happening, combat's are included there.
25:40.449 --> 25:57.266
[SPEAKER_01]: You should never just throw a monster at somebody and have it be, you guys seem like you need other Wilson dice, you know, I think everything needs to be narrative driven, everything needs to have a reason for why it's happening because otherwise it's just going to be, you know, a series of dice rolls.
25:57.606 --> 26:05.313
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I've definitely been involved in tables where that kind of game play happens and plays out and it always sort of leaves something to be desired.
26:05.633 --> 26:05.834
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
26:06.314 --> 26:12.920
[SPEAKER_00]: To change subjects a little bit, I want to touch on some of the live events that you do and are involved in.
26:12.960 --> 26:20.927
[SPEAKER_00]: So obviously Dungeons and Cappens, you were my DM for that and you've done that for a couple of years now, but you've also done stuff with packs unplugged.
26:20.987 --> 26:23.329
[SPEAKER_00]: You're about to be a GM for Nat 22ers.
26:24.450 --> 26:30.156
[SPEAKER_00]: When you're doing those kinds of live events, what kinds of unique considerations are there?
26:30.637 --> 26:32.499
[SPEAKER_00]: You can go specific with the individual event.
26:32.519 --> 26:45.352
[SPEAKER_00]: You can go in general of like unique opportunities, unique obstacles, and how has doing those kinds of events impacted the way you approach the table in general, if at all.
26:45.892 --> 26:51.994
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure, um, I will take this opportunity to talk to the audience a little bit about natural 20 tours that that's okay.
26:52.094 --> 26:52.814
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, please do.
26:53.234 --> 26:57.135
[SPEAKER_01]: Nat 22ers is an awesome company that is just starting.
26:57.435 --> 27:00.296
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a mission that is that has been done before.
27:00.316 --> 27:07.957
[SPEAKER_01]: You've heard about these opportunities to go, whether it's overseas or to some other location playing Dunes and Dragons in a location for a while.
27:08.178 --> 27:09.338
[SPEAKER_01]: You get to play with this group.
27:09.398 --> 27:09.778
[SPEAKER_01]: It's great.
27:10.078 --> 27:11.118
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a little bit different.
27:11.178 --> 27:15.980
[SPEAKER_01]: Not only is this going to be happening in Ireland, you fly in a double and you drive up to bell fast and bus.
27:16.461 --> 27:24.904
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you have a couple sessions over the course of a week all culminating in the Druidic Celtic Festival of Fire called Bialtina.
27:25.284 --> 27:26.645
[SPEAKER_01]: It lines up usually with Mayday.
27:27.185 --> 27:29.426
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's happening in like the first week of May or so.
27:29.706 --> 27:31.207
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm very, very excited about it.
27:31.307 --> 27:32.727
[SPEAKER_01]: Please go check out.
27:32.907 --> 27:34.808
[SPEAKER_01]: I hope, Dan, you can throw a link in there.
27:34.848 --> 27:35.568
[SPEAKER_01]: I can send it to you.
27:35.648 --> 27:37.189
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that will be included at the end.
27:37.509 --> 27:38.890
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm really excited about it.
27:39.050 --> 27:53.701
[SPEAKER_01]: The game is going to be centered around Irish tradition and folklore and culture, and all of the locations that we're going to be visiting are all going to be historic Irish locations that are going to be translated and uses inspiration for parts of the campaign itself.
27:53.902 --> 27:55.162
[SPEAKER_01]: So very exciting.
27:55.483 --> 27:58.645
[SPEAKER_01]: I've always wanted to visit Ireland and this is such a cool reason to do so.
27:58.705 --> 28:00.607
[SPEAKER_01]: So please go check it out, go sign up.
28:00.847 --> 28:04.870
[SPEAKER_01]: And honestly, way cheaper than most of these other events that you'd go to like,
28:05.230 --> 28:14.332
[SPEAKER_01]: Sit in a castle hotel where you play four or five games in the same location, but this is like literally you're playing in multiple occasions of the course of a week.
28:15.225 --> 28:25.237
[SPEAKER_01]: So take a look back and take your question, you know as well as I do running a game in front of a camera or in front of a microphone or in front of an audience is vastly different.
28:25.477 --> 28:27.520
[SPEAKER_01]: You have different goals in mind.
28:27.920 --> 28:34.869
[SPEAKER_01]: Then when you're just playing at your kitchen table or group of people that you've known for 10 years or whatever.
28:35.269 --> 28:36.730
[SPEAKER_01]: you're playing for different audiences.
28:36.890 --> 28:51.219
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, when you're running for your podcast and you know people are listening, you still want, you know, whoever is in your cast to feel fulfilled because that increases the enjoyment of the audience and you just want that in general.
28:51.719 --> 28:57.342
[SPEAKER_01]: But when you're running for an audience, you realize that you have a lot of things to take care of.
28:57.402 --> 29:05.166
[SPEAKER_01]: So when I'm running for Friday beers, yes, I want to increase their enjoyment in the game by getting them invested in this story.
29:05.566 --> 29:17.352
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to get the news to D&D, which is another thing that I'm having to think about when I'm running the game, I'm having to like, you know, spoon feed them a certain amount or like, you know, rely on different things that I would do for players who are newer.
29:17.852 --> 29:25.157
[SPEAKER_01]: But I'm also thinking about the people who are watching on YouTube, like what is their connection to D&D for the Friday beer's audience.
29:25.297 --> 29:28.299
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of them are watching D&D actual play for the very first time.
29:28.579 --> 29:31.301
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, what are the kinds of things that I would like to introduce them to?
29:31.921 --> 29:33.902
[SPEAKER_01]: What are the kind of comments that I want to see?
29:34.663 --> 29:34.983
[SPEAKER_01]: Overall.
29:35.283 --> 29:41.128
[SPEAKER_01]: audience has been phenomenal, and I've been very, very happy with how they've taken it in and the players have been amazing.
29:41.448 --> 29:51.036
[SPEAKER_01]: But then I'm also thinking about this is not a production company that is used to making actual plays or dealing with the kind of challenges that are involved with it.
29:51.137 --> 29:54.339
[SPEAKER_01]: So there was one shoot that we had did that where
29:55.280 --> 30:04.402
[SPEAKER_01]: I was trying to get a game in the day of, I find out, oh, by the way, one of our players has a hard out, like two hours after the original shoot time.
30:04.723 --> 30:08.784
[SPEAKER_01]: And we were hoping to get like three episodes of, like, oh, well, I don't know how that's gonna work.
30:09.124 --> 30:12.224
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for telling me now, but it's just what had happened.
30:12.365 --> 30:13.225
[SPEAKER_01]: So like, you deal with it.
30:14.245 --> 30:21.071
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's always things that come up so you always have to, I realized in the last couple shoots that we did.
30:21.271 --> 30:22.392
[SPEAKER_01]: Half of those episodes are out now.
30:22.693 --> 30:25.655
[SPEAKER_01]: There's still three more episodes that we shot that are going to be coming out in the next couple of months.
30:25.976 --> 30:26.556
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't check it out.
30:26.576 --> 30:27.717
[SPEAKER_01]: It's Friday beers on YouTube.
30:27.737 --> 30:28.318
[SPEAKER_01]: They're hilarious.
30:29.098 --> 30:34.684
[SPEAKER_01]: Before the shoot, I realized that I have over-prepared in all of the previous episodes that we shot.
30:35.324 --> 30:41.871
[SPEAKER_01]: I had prepared for it like a normal D&D session and that's not what is going to make it the most fun for this group.
30:41.931 --> 30:45.114
[SPEAKER_01]: I have a general idea of what is going to happen in this game.
30:45.274 --> 30:54.964
[SPEAKER_01]: I know what the first second and third episodes are going to be for the shooter and I know how we're going to get there and what the transition points are and who the characters are in general.
30:55.284 --> 30:57.668
[SPEAKER_01]: but I don't think that I took any notes besides that.
30:57.988 --> 30:59.430
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I did a little bit of combat prep.
30:59.710 --> 31:02.074
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, we had the minis and the the battle maps and everything.
31:02.094 --> 31:03.956
[SPEAKER_01]: And that was that took time and preparation.
31:04.577 --> 31:07.842
[SPEAKER_01]: But my notes were very, very minimal.
31:08.283 --> 31:10.786
[SPEAKER_01]: And I realized that because I didn't want to be checking my notes.
31:10.806 --> 31:10.826
[SPEAKER_01]: I
31:11.427 --> 31:12.127
[SPEAKER_01]: had it all in my head.
31:12.648 --> 31:19.171
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't want to be forcing myself to go to something that I had prepared for because I had spent the time preparing for it.
31:19.652 --> 31:24.694
[SPEAKER_01]: I just wanted it to be Lucy Gousi, free-flowing because I am playing for a group of sketch comedians.
31:25.075 --> 31:27.436
[SPEAKER_01]: They are going for what it is giving the biggest laugh.
31:27.996 --> 31:30.097
[SPEAKER_01]: and I don't know what that's going to be at.
31:30.538 --> 31:39.903
[SPEAKER_01]: They are going to be making decisions that I couldn't think of in a million years, and I just have to yes-and-it because that is what is going to make this session most fun.
31:40.243 --> 31:42.144
[SPEAKER_01]: So I wouldn't be doing that in a normal game.
31:42.204 --> 31:49.308
[SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't necessarily be like, oh yeah, let's just throw caution to the wind and just decide to go off on this weird thing.
31:49.948 --> 32:06.703
[SPEAKER_01]: No, like I would run a game in a sandbox for people at home, but I would also allow for consequences to happen in a more solidified way, whereas for this one, like rules be damned, like the other people, if everything's happening in the background, these are the main characters.
32:06.723 --> 32:07.564
[SPEAKER_01]: This is what's happening.
32:07.584 --> 32:10.947
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is the story that we were going to tell, and we are going to tell it because it's
32:11.447 --> 32:18.291
[SPEAKER_01]: great and it fills my soul to be able to play for these people, but it's funny and these people are funny and that's what I'm chasing.
32:18.631 --> 32:22.173
[SPEAKER_01]: So those are the kinds of things what I think about different audiences that I'm playing for.
32:22.493 --> 32:24.634
[SPEAKER_01]: A live audience is completely different from that.
32:24.894 --> 32:25.995
[SPEAKER_01]: I've only done that a couple times.
32:26.055 --> 32:36.361
[SPEAKER_01]: It's very hard, but I think on those games you have to just rely on your cast as much as possible because they're going to pick you up and then they're especially for
32:40.843 --> 32:42.104
[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to have to cut scenes.
32:42.644 --> 32:46.666
[SPEAKER_01]: I play with a group called Oops all Himbose at a lot of Pacs events and a live events.
32:47.226 --> 32:57.011
[SPEAKER_01]: And Jay Foster, God bless him, I don't think that he has ever expected us to do introductions for 45 minutes in any game that we've played.
32:57.611 --> 33:03.254
[SPEAKER_01]: And Lord knows that we have spent at least 45 minutes introducing our characters in every single game that we've done.
33:03.674 --> 33:07.536
[SPEAKER_01]: And I hope that he figures it out at some point because I feel so bad that we have to cut
33:10.597 --> 33:24.786
[SPEAKER_01]: So, those are the kinds of experiences that you have when you're having from like many audience, like recorded audience, audio audience and a live audience, all have very different goals in mind, and it's just about adapting to them and experiencing it.
33:25.006 --> 33:26.467
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that makes a ton of sense.
33:27.007 --> 33:32.850
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think what I kind of latch on to in the different venues and
33:35.692 --> 33:41.678
[SPEAKER_00]: is the more that I do at the less rigid my idea and concept of how things will be has gotten.
33:42.098 --> 33:55.371
[SPEAKER_00]: A big thing for me that I've gone all in on that I'm trying to bring as much as possible to every table that I'm at is I'm very big on negotiating between players and GMs.
33:55.672 --> 33:56.893
[SPEAKER_01]: I love doing that at tables.
33:57.253 --> 34:07.335
[SPEAKER_01]: As you got as you're well aware, like I love to have little inside gambling sessions and games inside every decision at the table.
34:07.515 --> 34:07.695
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
34:08.056 --> 34:08.236
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
34:08.336 --> 34:09.536
[SPEAKER_00]: I will try as hard as I can.
34:09.756 --> 34:23.699
[SPEAKER_00]: My big thing if a player ever wants to do something that kind of goes against the rules, my go to question and a part of this just kind of comes down to them trusting me and trying to establish an advance that we are on the same team here.
34:23.839 --> 34:26.580
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm rolling for the enemy, but I want your thing to
34:27.380 --> 34:32.444
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're willing, I have a great example of that that just happened in one of the more recent Friday beers episodes that came out.
34:32.464 --> 34:32.905
[SPEAKER_01]: Please do.
34:33.345 --> 34:41.332
[SPEAKER_01]: The whole conceit of the most recent arc that just released was there was this tavern-sized mimic that they came across in the first session.
34:41.672 --> 34:47.777
[SPEAKER_01]: It returned in this arc and they were trying to tame it, trying to get it under their control so that they could run it as a roving bar.
34:48.217 --> 34:49.859
[SPEAKER_01]: During this first fight with the mimic,
34:52.881 --> 35:01.363
[SPEAKER_01]: At least so that she wanted to say just to be able to get inside of the mimic, and I was trying to give her every hint that she shouldn't do that.
35:01.803 --> 35:03.764
[SPEAKER_01]: That you don't want to go inside of it.
35:03.824 --> 35:05.264
[SPEAKER_01]: It is not a building right now.
35:05.284 --> 35:06.004
[SPEAKER_01]: It is not a room.
35:06.344 --> 35:07.185
[SPEAKER_01]: It is a monster.
35:07.965 --> 35:10.185
[SPEAKER_01]: And I didn't outright say that.
35:10.726 --> 35:14.527
[SPEAKER_01]: So she kept on saying, I want to figure out, I want to figure out how to sneak in.
35:14.547 --> 35:15.507
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to like dive in.
35:15.947 --> 35:18.267
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, their comedians, they're trying to do something to the things funny.
35:18.327 --> 35:19.948
[SPEAKER_01]: Even if I told them not to do it, they were going to do it.
35:20.508 --> 35:22.589
[SPEAKER_01]: So I say, OK, I want to honor that request.
35:22.989 --> 35:25.830
[SPEAKER_01]: What I'm going to say, you are not a stealthy character.
35:25.951 --> 35:30.413
[SPEAKER_01]: You are not somebody who has the ability to go and tangible or invisible and sneak in.
35:31.213 --> 35:32.033
[SPEAKER_01]: You are a cleric.
35:32.353 --> 35:33.774
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's work within those rules.
35:34.074 --> 35:35.175
[SPEAKER_01]: You have the ability to heal.
35:35.955 --> 35:43.579
[SPEAKER_01]: You can maybe heal this monster and give it the, ah, that feels better, like big open mouth response.
35:44.159 --> 35:45.380
[SPEAKER_01]: And then try to sneak in.
35:45.820 --> 35:48.601
[SPEAKER_01]: And I will base the DC base on how much you heal it.
35:48.981 --> 35:49.722
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's what she did.
35:49.762 --> 35:50.822
[SPEAKER_01]: She cast healing words.
35:50.842 --> 35:52.363
[SPEAKER_01]: She healed it for eight points a damage.
35:52.423 --> 35:54.364
[SPEAKER_01]: I reduced the DC from 20 to 12.
35:54.684 --> 35:58.046
[SPEAKER_01]: I say, okay, with a DC 12 stealth check, you can get in.
35:58.566 --> 35:59.947
[SPEAKER_01]: She wrote like a four or something.
36:00.387 --> 36:00.808
[SPEAKER_01]: So, okay.
36:01.168 --> 36:03.350
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, let's think about what actually just happened.
36:03.370 --> 36:04.091
[SPEAKER_01]: You try to heal it.
36:04.171 --> 36:04.912
[SPEAKER_01]: It opened its mouth.
36:04.972 --> 36:08.976
[SPEAKER_01]: You rolled a stealth check to get in a notice and that failed.
36:09.336 --> 36:10.698
[SPEAKER_01]: You didn't fail getting in.
36:11.118 --> 36:12.319
[SPEAKER_01]: You just were noticed.
36:13.180 --> 36:14.341
[SPEAKER_01]: So, he swallows you.
36:14.421 --> 36:15.843
[SPEAKER_01]: You're now taking acid damage.
36:16.504 --> 36:19.487
[SPEAKER_01]: And that was the rule that we decided was going to happen.
36:19.547 --> 36:23.471
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that yes, you are adamant that you want this to happen.
36:23.851 --> 36:24.592
[SPEAKER_01]: that is your plan.
36:24.893 --> 36:31.562
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's figure out how the rules work within that and let that play out because like that D&D is just a template.
36:31.722 --> 36:32.964
[SPEAKER_01]: It is the words that you use.
36:32.984 --> 36:40.374
[SPEAKER_01]: It is the phrases, the language that you're using is dungeon and dragons and that means that you're rolling D20s and means you have certain bonuses and
36:40.935 --> 36:46.677
[SPEAKER_01]: you are telling a story with those rules and the dice rules are like the words that you actually write.
36:47.217 --> 36:49.478
[SPEAKER_01]: So I thought that was a really fun way.
36:49.738 --> 37:00.042
[SPEAKER_01]: It was honestly the most funny point of the episode and that was a moment in which I was proud as a DM that I was able to like have that be wrapped up in that way.
37:00.462 --> 37:02.383
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that is a fantastic example.
37:02.684 --> 37:11.329
[SPEAKER_00]: And that kind of gets to the heart of what I was wanting to get at is what I normally end up doing the question that I keep coming back to is, what is your goal here?
37:11.829 --> 37:14.571
[SPEAKER_00]: What is it that you as a player want to accomplish?
37:15.072 --> 37:20.155
[SPEAKER_00]: I might not be able to let you do it in the method that you want, but I'll work with you to help you get there.
37:20.175 --> 37:23.177
[SPEAKER_00]: And so like that's a perfect example of that kind of thing.
37:23.437 --> 37:36.783
[SPEAKER_01]: When people talk about player agency, it doesn't mean what they want to happen happened, but what they are attempting to happen, what they are intending needs to be honored by the DM.
37:36.803 --> 37:46.387
[SPEAKER_01]: You can never place intentions on a character because that is when you start to lose the player agency and that's when they start to start pushing back against that.
37:46.947 --> 37:54.133
[SPEAKER_01]: The player agency is what the intention of the player is and the story that they want to tell in any given moment.
37:54.433 --> 37:59.638
[SPEAKER_01]: The story that Elise wanted to tell was that she wanted a stage of to dive into this mimic and I had to honor that.
38:00.058 --> 38:06.043
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't have to let it happen or happen in the way that she wanted it to but I had to honor what she wanted to do.
38:06.063 --> 38:08.846
[SPEAKER_01]: I was giving her warnings but I was never going to tell her that she couldn't.
38:09.401 --> 38:09.621
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
38:09.902 --> 38:11.664
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you hit the nail on the head right there.
38:12.185 --> 38:16.451
[SPEAKER_00]: And you brought this up a little bit in some of the conversations about railroading.
38:16.871 --> 38:26.644
[SPEAKER_00]: I think there is a very big difference and what people kind of oversimplify the difference between a linear story and a railroaded campaign.
38:27.485 --> 38:41.194
[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like the big thing is the point that you just brought up of allowing that player agency making sure that they have the ability to pursue the goals that they want, regardless of whether they're successful or not.
38:41.674 --> 38:53.262
[SPEAKER_00]: I know the only times that I've really felt the constraints of like railroading in campaigns are when I feel the invisible barrier of I cannot
38:53.582 --> 39:02.053
[SPEAKER_00]: do this thing or go over here, which I generally try to tend towards where the plot hooks are and keep things totally.
39:02.153 --> 39:04.636
[SPEAKER_00]: Where I think will be most narratively interesting.
39:04.896 --> 39:08.942
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the whole idea of if they weren't going to be able to succeed at that, don't let them roll.
39:09.202 --> 39:09.763
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
39:10.143 --> 39:12.083
[SPEAKER_01]: of the whole like, okay, roll to seduce the dragon.
39:12.103 --> 39:13.204
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, shit, you got an actual 20.
39:13.244 --> 39:14.144
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, need to honor that.
39:14.184 --> 39:15.184
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't need to honor that.
39:15.224 --> 39:18.505
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't need to honor those dice rolls and say like, okay, can't happen.
39:18.845 --> 39:21.145
[SPEAKER_01]: But I mean, you have to put the trust in the players.
39:21.305 --> 39:21.605
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
39:21.625 --> 39:33.528
[SPEAKER_01]: You kind of had just have to have that understanding with them that like, hey, I want to work with you here, play with me, compromise with me, and let's figure out a way to make this work.
39:33.848 --> 39:42.154
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah, I'm huge on compromise and that's a lot of the homeroom magic items or rules that I bring in are to that effect.
39:42.555 --> 39:46.598
[SPEAKER_00]: A big one that I leaned super heavily on in our first season was Devil's Bargains.
39:46.958 --> 39:53.223
[SPEAKER_00]: That was a big way that a lot of players got out of jail and got into jail out of the frying pan into the fire.
39:53.763 --> 39:55.264
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm very big on stuff like that.
39:55.724 --> 40:00.086
[SPEAKER_00]: I love high-risk high-reward plays in these kinds of situations.
40:00.106 --> 40:05.248
[SPEAKER_00]: There's some of the most fun bits of story and like emergent narrative that come from that.
40:05.588 --> 40:13.052
[SPEAKER_00]: So letting the players do that and like empowering them to make those calls and to like, well, what if XYZ?
40:13.692 --> 40:16.013
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's the heart and soul of what the hobby is.
40:16.493 --> 40:23.804
[SPEAKER_01]: because that's when you realize that your players are thinking about the game rather than just experiencing the game.
40:24.124 --> 40:32.517
[SPEAKER_01]: When they start to be able to dictate the story and tell the story with you, that is when you want to start rewarding that.
40:32.837 --> 40:34.318
[SPEAKER_01]: and allowing that compromise.
40:34.438 --> 40:36.180
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, okay, I did not expect that to happen.
40:36.280 --> 40:42.125
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to compromise my story, but I'm not going to let exactly what you want to happen.
40:42.185 --> 40:44.607
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to honor the intention of what you want to happen.
40:45.267 --> 40:47.810
[SPEAKER_01]: And Monkey Pah, in a way that you weren't expecting.
40:48.394 --> 41:05.863
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's the beauty of collaborative storytelling is that nobody knows where it's going to go and you can say that until your face is red, but really allowing for that loss of control to happen is a hard thing as a DM and it really just takes experience.
41:06.365 --> 41:06.985
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, for sure.
41:07.666 --> 41:12.608
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's one of the things that I like the most about playing with new players.
41:13.148 --> 41:17.309
[SPEAKER_00]: I find that that is when I am thrown for the most loops as a GM.
41:17.329 --> 41:18.470
[SPEAKER_01]: They don't know their limitations.
41:18.510 --> 41:18.750
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
41:18.770 --> 41:18.930
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
41:19.110 --> 41:20.251
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't know the limitations.
41:20.431 --> 41:27.053
[SPEAKER_00]: They tend to be the most creative in their decisions, because they're not set in their ways of I know historically this thing has worked.
41:27.073 --> 41:29.794
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm going to do the thing that has historically worked for me.
41:30.235 --> 41:30.395
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
41:30.515 --> 41:30.635
[SPEAKER_00]: It's
41:31.495 --> 41:32.016
[SPEAKER_00]: it's great.
41:32.656 --> 41:37.622
[SPEAKER_00]: To pivot a little bit, I want to touch on your podcast athletics check.
41:38.162 --> 41:51.056
[SPEAKER_00]: Are there any particular interviews you've done that mean a lot to you or like any topics that have come up or guests that you've had that are especially significant to you that you've touched on on that show?
41:51.749 --> 41:56.792
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so athletic check was, I think the best thing about the show is the name honestly.
41:56.852 --> 41:58.533
[SPEAKER_01]: I love the name of athletic check.
41:58.633 --> 42:01.515
[SPEAKER_01]: I haven't had the opportunity to, it's been on a hiatus.
42:01.655 --> 42:07.699
[SPEAKER_01]: I haven't had the opportunity to to run it in a while, but I interview athletes about their nerdy hobbies.
42:07.939 --> 42:13.763
[SPEAKER_01]: I interview nerds, voice actors, writers, TTRPG performers, about the relationship with sports.
42:14.243 --> 42:17.324
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if I have a favorite interview that I did.
42:17.344 --> 42:21.845
[SPEAKER_01]: I talked to the McRoy's Clinton Travis about their relationship with sports.
42:21.865 --> 42:30.348
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, that one is very interesting to me because the McRoy's have talked very openly about how much less interested they are in sports than their dad is.
42:31.148 --> 42:36.770
[SPEAKER_01]: So talking to both Clint and Travis and having the two points of views, I honestly don't even know if the Travis episode aired.
42:36.830 --> 42:41.011
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it might still be in the backlog, but talking to them about like,
42:41.411 --> 42:49.498
[SPEAKER_01]: Nerdim was, yes, definitely Clint's world, but it was really kind of like owned by the boys and they brought Clint into play Dungeons and Dragons.
42:50.018 --> 42:56.123
[SPEAKER_01]: Sports was Clint's world and would oftentimes try to bring the boys into the world of sports and sometimes it was pushed back.
42:56.462 --> 42:58.905
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think that anybody needs to be in both.
42:58.965 --> 43:02.129
[SPEAKER_01]: I think both sides should have openness to both.
43:02.329 --> 43:04.172
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, nerds should be open to the world of sports.
43:04.652 --> 43:13.123
[SPEAKER_01]: Athletes, people who are fans of sports should be open to the nerd world because there's nothing nerdier than, you know, it's a cliche at this point, but there's nothing nerdier than playing fans to football or.
43:13.503 --> 43:16.164
[SPEAKER_01]: being a massive sports fan and knowing all the stats and everything.
43:16.504 --> 43:35.612
[SPEAKER_01]: So gosh, one of the some of the other interviews that I've done, I loved my interview with Amy Vorpel who's a good friend of mine because she's very well known as being a performer, a D&D nerd, but she is a legit committed Moitai trainer and I end up not trainer but like you know, somebody who trains at Moitai.
43:36.052 --> 43:42.375
[SPEAKER_01]: not in any kind of competitive way, but as a way of like staying in shape and staying, you know, having your self-defense and everything I've done.
43:42.855 --> 43:57.342
[SPEAKER_01]: And I got to talk to Amy's trainer and get some of his feedback and some of his thoughts about Amy as not just a more Thai fighter, but also as a person and share that with her to the point where Amy teared up during that interview.
43:57.382 --> 43:58.403
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was very
44:02.665 --> 44:14.317
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of the actors, the nerds, what have you, who I get to talk to, a lot of them don't really consider themselves an athlete and telling Amy, like, no, you absolutely are an athlete.
44:14.337 --> 44:16.299
[SPEAKER_01]: You're training, we tie three times a week.
44:16.339 --> 44:21.284
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, that's more than I'm training at football right now and then are you any less of an athlete than I am?
44:21.304 --> 44:21.665
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, no.
44:22.105 --> 44:46.537
[SPEAKER_01]: And then talking to athletes who might not think that they have a nerdy side and kind of allowing themselves to open that up like JC Johnson was a professional soccer player who I went to university Nebraska with and was in the sports program with and kind of opening her own eyes to like the ways in which she is in her she's never played Dungeons and Dragons before she's never right comic she's never done the traditional nerdy activities.
44:47.077 --> 44:58.244
[SPEAKER_01]: but realizing in the fact that she's actually a huge nerd about donuts, she could tell you what the best donut shops were and all the towns that she played in.
44:58.524 --> 45:05.248
[SPEAKER_01]: So whatever you're weird, interesting, whatever you're niche interest in, your niche interest is the way in which you are entered.
45:05.769 --> 45:10.372
[SPEAKER_00]: I am firmly of the belief that everyone is a nerd about something, 100%.
45:10.732 --> 45:12.193
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just an assistant and an impassion.
45:12.473 --> 45:13.814
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a great way to frame it.
45:14.317 --> 45:34.511
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, yeah, the intersection between athletics and nerd dumb, some of the most creative people that I know, there were several people that I went to high school in college with who it was kind of a similar situation with you dipping your tone to D&D, where they were athletes that were out on an injury leave, then decided, well, while I've got the time, I'm going to try theater.
45:34.531 --> 45:36.252
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to try screenwriting.
45:36.652 --> 45:51.510
[SPEAKER_01]: and just kind of see when it gets taken away from you that's when you have to realize what are you missing out on or what are the ways in which you can become a more well-rounded person and not just take at face value what you believe your identity is.
45:52.010 --> 45:55.675
[SPEAKER_01]: It should always be shifting it should always be open to what the next
45:56.155 --> 46:24.494
[SPEAKER_01]: potential thing is and I think that's what a lot of my former teammates and people I played with they could benefit from finding out a little bit more about themselves and not just being so linearly focused at I am a football player people know me for football so I know myself for football so that's all I'm gonna work on you know they all all my teammates would say that they have different things but when it comes down to like well how are you spending your time spend time with your family by all means like that you can be a nerd about your family please
46:25.515 --> 46:39.769
[SPEAKER_01]: I think there is so much growth that can come from actually investing yourself into something that maybe people don't know you for or that is foreign thing to you and you have to maybe be bad at it for a little bit.
46:40.227 --> 46:53.220
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's one of the most valuable lessons that I got from doing improv classes was accepting the risk of failure and being willing to put yourself out into uncomfortable or unfamiliar situations.
46:53.581 --> 47:00.908
[SPEAKER_00]: I learned so much from trying to broaden my horizons like that and beyond just
47:01.729 --> 47:19.892
[SPEAKER_00]: doing different hobbies or trying different passions, trying to talk to and get to know as many different types of people from as many different walks of life as possible has given me so many valuable nuggets of information that's one of my favorite things about doing these interviews.
47:20.552 --> 47:25.274
[SPEAKER_00]: is I come away from them having learned something new from each one of them.
47:25.854 --> 47:29.195
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm always surprised by the ones that stick with me.
47:29.455 --> 47:40.659
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of stuff that I can bring to apply in regards to TTRBGs, specifically to the table, or to the show, but also some general, very good life advice that comes up from that.
47:41.479 --> 47:48.567
[SPEAKER_00]: In your interviews, are there any of those kinds of, like, nuggets of wisdom that have particularly resonated with you?
47:48.627 --> 48:01.281
[SPEAKER_00]: Any, like, little bit of advice that's come up regardless of whether it was in the interviews or just other experiences in these creative spaces, any lessons that have, like, really resonated with you.
48:02.063 --> 48:02.323
[SPEAKER_01]: L.J.
48:02.403 --> 48:04.024
[SPEAKER_01]: Raider, it was an interesting one.
48:04.204 --> 48:05.245
[SPEAKER_01]: You wouldn't recognize his name.
48:05.385 --> 48:07.586
[SPEAKER_01]: He was a guy who does art, but make its sports.
48:07.966 --> 48:23.554
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you haven't seen this in social media, he will find an image that has made it onto from like this Sunday's game or just some sports photography that made its way into like the sportscon conscious within a day.
48:23.774 --> 48:24.774
[SPEAKER_01]: This will happen within a day.
48:25.174 --> 48:27.816
[SPEAKER_01]: He will relate it to a piece of
48:28.476 --> 48:33.080
[SPEAKER_01]: classic art, whether it's like, it doesn't have to be a bingo or Picasso or something like that.
48:33.140 --> 48:41.748
[SPEAKER_01]: It can also be a sculpture or a piece of modern art that just, it's insane what he's able to do.
48:42.128 --> 48:45.011
[SPEAKER_01]: This is not AI or anything that he's proven that time of time again.
48:45.311 --> 48:49.315
[SPEAKER_01]: He just has this brain in which he goes and experiences art.
48:49.915 --> 48:55.999
[SPEAKER_01]: goes to museums, he goes to these exhibits and takes in as much art as possible.
48:56.019 --> 49:12.832
[SPEAKER_01]: And then it just lives in his brand and he's able to file like grab it like a file as he looks at this photo and say, oh, the composition, the colors, like what what this artist's featuring reminds me of this piece of art and he's able to connect him and he does it in a way that blows my mind every single time he does it.
49:13.532 --> 49:17.035
[SPEAKER_01]: He was very blase about what he does.
49:17.075 --> 49:26.102
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, he runs a social media page in which he's not of his, like, he doesn't show his face to there's voice or anything.
49:26.163 --> 49:33.088
[SPEAKER_01]: It's literally just the brand art, but make it sports and very blase about considering himself a nerd.
49:33.108 --> 49:37.332
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't think there's anything, honestly, I think that's, that's the nerdiest person I had on the show.
49:37.752 --> 49:48.657
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'll honestly, but I think that's the lesson that I took from that message is like he didn't concern himself with what the label of it all is in his mind.
49:48.677 --> 49:54.580
[SPEAKER_01]: There is no line between nerd and being a sports fan.
49:54.920 --> 50:00.762
[SPEAKER_01]: The way that he takes in sports is that he relates it to the nerdy stuff that's already in his brain.
50:01.123 --> 50:02.683
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's like he just never thought about it.
50:06.685 --> 50:13.669
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the more you think about it and kind of put labels to it, complicate it, it gives itself weight in which it shouldn't.
50:13.749 --> 50:19.513
[SPEAKER_01]: And I know that's the whole point of my show is that like, you're an athlete, how are you actually a nerd, you're a nerd, how are you actually an athlete?
50:19.813 --> 50:28.939
[SPEAKER_01]: There is benefits to both, but I think when you think too hard about it and you try to like give it a percentage or like a, you, I don't know, I'm complicating in this point, but
50:29.399 --> 50:37.765
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the way that he kind of put it into perspective of like you can call me a nerd if you want you can call me a sportsman if you want this is just the way that I take in the world around me.
50:38.246 --> 50:40.427
[SPEAKER_01]: I think was in a lot of ways inspirational.
50:40.768 --> 50:45.491
[SPEAKER_00]: That's fantastic and that's such a good lens to see things in.
50:46.272 --> 50:50.895
[SPEAKER_00]: I love the coincidence of life imitating art and I've seen some of the pictures and
50:55.060 --> 50:57.222
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he has a very unique mind for sure.
50:57.722 --> 51:01.705
[SPEAKER_00]: He's an interesting guy before we wrap up, I want to just throw back to you one more time.
51:01.805 --> 51:07.569
[SPEAKER_00]: Are there any other miscellaneous things that you want to touch on that we haven't covered in this discussion?
51:07.669 --> 51:12.452
[SPEAKER_01]: It's been a great conversation so far, but absolutely, no, thank you for so much for having me on the show.
51:13.953 --> 51:14.954
[SPEAKER_01]: Go follow my social media.
51:14.994 --> 51:15.835
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm at Johnny Stanton.
51:15.915 --> 51:18.196
[SPEAKER_01]: I be anywhere on social media.
51:18.777 --> 51:19.978
[SPEAKER_01]: Go check out Friday beers.
51:20.018 --> 51:22.780
[SPEAKER_01]: The more you guys watch that, the more they want me back.
51:22.800 --> 51:24.021
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's been so much fun.
51:24.601 --> 51:26.803
[SPEAKER_01]: And go check out the description.
51:26.823 --> 51:28.224
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to send Dan the link.
51:28.564 --> 51:30.745
[SPEAKER_01]: It's natural22rs.com.
51:31.066 --> 51:34.128
[SPEAKER_01]: Check out the Ireland events and go to the one that's set in May.
51:34.548 --> 51:39.272
[SPEAKER_01]: It's spelled B-E-A-L-T-A-I-N-E-B-L-T-N-A-N-E-B-L-T-N-A-N-E-N-E-N-E-N-E-N-E-N-E-N-E-N-E-N-E-N-E-N-E-N-E-N-E-N-E-N-E-N-E-N-E-N-E-N-E-N-E-N-E
51:39.832 --> 51:40.552
[SPEAKER_01]: check it that out.
51:40.732 --> 51:43.794
[SPEAKER_01]: Hopefully you guys are excited about it in the same way that I am.
51:44.294 --> 51:44.594
[SPEAKER_00]: Awesome.
51:44.774 --> 51:46.875
[SPEAKER_00]: All of those links will be in the description.
51:47.336 --> 51:55.780
[SPEAKER_00]: Then one last thing before we go, a closing question that I tried to throw to everybody just because I always get such really interesting answers from it.
51:56.200 --> 52:06.305
[SPEAKER_00]: If there was one thing that you know now that you could tell yourself when you were younger and just starting out, what would that bit of advice be?
52:07.085 --> 52:28.846
[SPEAKER_01]: I would say, and this is honestly joining from like four years ago, stop concerning yourself with the fact that you are a novelty, because you are allow that to inform what you attempt to do and reward yourself for the platform that you have been able to build with it.
52:29.627 --> 52:34.489
[SPEAKER_01]: Because for a long time, I was worried about I'm going to lose relevancy when I leave the NFL.
52:34.549 --> 52:41.593
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not going to get these D&D opportunities because I'm not going to be the football player who plays D&D anymore.
52:42.013 --> 52:45.315
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just going to be the guy who used to play football, who also plays D&D.
52:46.275 --> 53:04.688
[SPEAKER_01]: I grew so much as I just personality wise and in my ability to perform through those opportunities and expanded the scope of what I can do so much that like yes you are you are a novelty right now.
53:05.428 --> 53:16.534
[SPEAKER_01]: you will not be treated as a novelty in the future because you're still going to get these opportunities, the amount of times that I look at like the Friday beer's D&D comments and I shouldn't but I do.
53:17.575 --> 53:20.036
[SPEAKER_01]: Somebody will say like, holy shit that DM played in the NFL.
53:20.417 --> 53:26.000
[SPEAKER_01]: That's how I know they're like, my ability to tell a story is now primary.
53:26.580 --> 53:30.301
[SPEAKER_01]: to what I did as like my career for and what a lot of people know me as.
53:30.761 --> 53:33.882
[SPEAKER_01]: So like people know me as the deal and NFL player plays D&D.
53:34.302 --> 53:37.003
[SPEAKER_01]: People also know me as the D&D player who he is to play in the NFL.
53:37.743 --> 53:40.023
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that is growth in its own right.
53:40.063 --> 53:45.145
[SPEAKER_01]: So I appreciate that and allow yourself to continue on that platform.
53:45.385 --> 53:47.485
[SPEAKER_00]: That is an amazing note to end on.
53:47.545 --> 53:50.126
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you again, so much for coming by to chat with me.
53:50.206 --> 53:53.427
[SPEAKER_00]: I had a fantastic time and got a lot of good stuff out of this.
53:54.032 --> 53:55.333
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely, thank you so much to Annie.
53:55.353 --> 54:00.117
[SPEAKER_01]: It was so great to be able to reconnect after my bout with the flu and yeah, man.
54:00.177 --> 54:03.479
[SPEAKER_01]: It was such a fun time and can't wait to play with you in the in the future.
54:04.020 --> 54:04.300
[SPEAKER_00]: Awesome.
54:04.420 --> 54:06.001
[SPEAKER_00]: I very much look forward to it.
54:06.321 --> 54:08.783
[SPEAKER_00]: In the meantime, thank you again for chatting with us.
54:09.063 --> 54:10.905
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you all of you for listening.
54:11.405 --> 54:14.187
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm Danger Dan Jersey, the GM and host of D&D Ark.
54:14.307 --> 54:18.851
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been chatting with Johnny Stanton the fourth and this has been Table Talk.
54:19.451 --> 54:21.873
[SPEAKER_00]: And I hope you enjoyed what we brought to the table.
54:26.143 --> 54:34.754
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Table Talk, created hosted and edited by myself, Danger Dan Jers, with artwork by Jordan Nelson.
54:35.515 --> 54:38.118
[SPEAKER_00]: Our guest this episode was Johnny Stanton the fourth.
54:38.559 --> 54:40.581
[SPEAKER_00]: Links to his work can be found in the episode description.
54:41.282 --> 54:48.045
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're interested in being a guest on this show, reach out to us at dndarkpodcast at gmail.com.
54:48.505 --> 54:51.206
[SPEAKER_00]: Our theme song and outro were created by Jeremy Volucci.
54:51.526 --> 54:55.788
[SPEAKER_00]: Check out more of his works on Instagram at Jeremy Volucci underscore wreck of time.
54:56.408 --> 55:00.550
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks again for listening, and we'll see you next time we have a guest take a seat at the table.