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Thank you for joining us for this episode of DMPA Conversations.
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I'm Jeff Chelswig, President and CEO of Des Moines Performing Arts.
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Today I'm joined by Tony Award winner Derek McLain, scenic
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designer for Moulin Rouge, the musical, part of our Willis
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Broadway series. These podcasts are designed to give you an
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insider's perspective of the fantastic performances headed to DMPA stages.
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Thank you again for joining us, and now here's my
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conversation with Derek McLain. So, Derek, thanks so much for
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joining me today. We're talking about Mulan Rouge, and before
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we start, I want to mention that this will be
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the second show in a row that you have been
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the scene designer for. Our last Broadway show here at
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the Civic Center was MJ the Musical, which was really
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well received by our audiences. I know that they're going
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to be really through to see the production of Mulin Rouge,
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which is our.
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Next That's wonderful. I'm honored to be back there.
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That's great. Well, congratulations on winning the Tony Award for
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seeing design for Moulin Rouge. Let me start by asking
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about your background as a scenic designer. How did you
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get started?
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Well, I had done some house construction as a summer
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job prior to going to college, and I spent the
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whole summer right before starting college building a house in
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Vermont with a contractor. I was a bit of a
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grunt carpenter. I mostly carried sheets of plywood, but I
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knew a little bit about carpentry. And so when I
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was a freshman in college, somebody asked me to build
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a set because I'd heard I knew how to swing
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a hammer, and so I did. And you know, I
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never really even heard of set design prior to that,
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never contemplated as a thing, and I suddenly thought, wow,
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design this would be really really cool. And so I
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was lucky in a way that there was no theater
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program when I was in college, so therefore there was
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nobody to stop me or tell me no, I couldn't
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design sets. There's lots of shows. There was no sort
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of official department or anything, and so you know, when
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I said I wanted to design sets for some college shows,
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everybody was like, Okay, sure, go ahead. So I did.
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And the first thing I designed was a production of
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Guys and dolls that we did in the dining room.
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I was terribly proud of it. And now I cringe
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when I think about what I did, but I I
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fell in love with it instantly, and I and then
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I was lucky enough to meet Michael Urigan, who was
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designing some shows for the American Repertory Theater, and I
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kind of threw myself at his mercy and said, I
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want to be your assistant. So, you know, I assisted
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him on a few things and he asked me, you
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know what I wanted to do. I said, I wanted
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to become a set to, and he simply, you should
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probably be a Yale drama school, where he was on
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the faculty. So he helped me apply and helped me
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get in, and that's what I ended up doing. And
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then when I finished Yale, I moved to New York
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and started assisting you know, every designer I could I
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could find, which I did for probably five years. I
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learned a huge amount from the various people I assisted.
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I want to go to before we start talking about
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Mulan Ruth to ask you about how you approach in general.
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I mean, you're you're working all the time, You're working
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on theater. You also do things for television, do you
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do you do stuff for film as well?
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Or not very much? A little bit, tiny bit of film,
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but mostly I did do stuff for television, done a
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lot of award shows, and then you know, did a
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bunch of those big television musicals. Oh, yes, right, I did.
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I did design the Oscars for six years. Last year,
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I designed the SAG Awards. I said, designed the met
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Gala last year, which was wow, an interesting departure. But
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mostly most of my work is for Broadway. That's what
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I love to do.
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Well. Then let's segue to willon Rouge. So Willin Rouge
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based on the two thousand and one Baz Luhmann film,
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which is one of my favorites. I just I love
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that film for.
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A lot of Yeah too.
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Tell us about what was the process that you went through,
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because you're kind of adapting something that's very known and
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beloved for the stage.
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Yeah, for sure. And I was intimidated by that in
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some ways because it is beloved. The movie is beloved,
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rightly beloved, and it's also I would say particularly beloved
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by designers. Like design geeks sort of go crazy over
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the movie Bluey Rouge and so I kind of knew,
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like it was a real obligation designing this that you know,
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I had something to live up to and something that
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I knew would be scrutinized by all those design geeks,
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and so I was keenly aware of that. You know.
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Alex stibber Is the director, and I spent a lot
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of time talking about what it is we wanted to
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capture from the movie and what it is we wanted
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to be different. And John Logan, the book writer, was
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also very much a part of that. And there were
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many things about the movie that were not possible to
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do on stage. Of course, you know, one of the
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one of the sort of hallmarks in that movie of
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those crazy panning shots where the camera will shoot you know,
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through a room and out of window and over the
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streets of Paris and back into another room. You know,
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so some of those things you can't literally do on stage.
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But our takeaway as we analyzed it was that, you know,
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there was an incredible sense of anarchy in the movie,
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and that's what's sort of exciting and enjoyous about it,
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and also really disparate styles. You know, like the whole
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movie has a feeling of a bit of a mash
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up in terms of the way music is used and
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period Paris is creative. Period Paris is like not exactly
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period in the movie. It's like gorgeous, but it's it's
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it's you know, it's definitely its own invention. So we
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sort of set out to think about, like, one of
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the things that we can do we can successfully do
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on stage, we'll capture some of that. You know. One
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of those things was, you know, making it as environmental
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as we could, really making the audience feel like they
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were going into the club from the moment that they
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that they walk into to the theater. So that was
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that was one thing. Another thing was, you know, although
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we can't actually do jump cuts, we can make it
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feel like that by basically I made as much of
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the set electrified as I possibly could. Like there's really
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almost nothing on the set that doesn't light up somewhere,
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so it's a little bit like like a jukebox or
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a pinball machine. And what that does is, you know,
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you can ever move scenery fast enough to sort of
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create the energy of that movie, but you can move
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the lighting and you know, which obviously moves at the
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speed of light, and so that's that's what we do.
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We you know, it's sort of almost violent lighting changes
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that happened within the show, especially in that opening number,
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which is so completely you know, insane and over the
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top and has featured so many incredible songs that are
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you know, really are literally a mash up in an
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exciting way. Another thing that we did to try to
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capture the energy of the movie was normally on most shows,
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when I designed a show, I set out to be
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stylistically coherent, you know, I come up to try to
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up with a style that is consistent throughout the entire show,
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and with Will my rouge, I really did the opposite,
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Like I really deliberately made one scene in one style
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and then the next scene in a completely different style,
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so that there are things in the show that feel
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very sort of modern and contemporary and graphic, and then
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other things that feel like you're watching the nineteenth century opera.
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Those juxtapositions make the scene changes feel more surprising and
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sort of catch you off guard a little bit some nimes,
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because you don't know what's coming. You don't know you know,
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you have you go from one set to another and
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you go, wait, where did this come from? This is
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like a whole different style here, and which I think
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is consistent with the spirit of the movie.
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Right, And the windmill from that figures in a lot, right, it.
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Does figure in a lot. I mean, you know, so
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early on in the process, the producers sent me to
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Paris to other than Mula Rouge, which I did, and
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I had a wonderful time. I sat with the one
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of the owners of the Mula Rouge, watched the show.
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But one of the things, you know, obviously that's just
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unmissible is that windmill, and so I thought that would
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be just so much fun to have in the theater
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when the audience comes in, I mean, completely unnecessary, but fun.
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You know. Then I needed something to balance it. One
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of the things that was the figures in that story
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is the elephant that the team lives in at a
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plot point, so you know. But what's interesting was the
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elephant actually really existed in real mil Rouge. So windmills
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and elephants both figure into the design, both big and small.
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I mean, there's lots of different If you look carefully,
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you will find many iterations of both of those things
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in the set of Some of them you really have
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to look for.
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I'll look forward to seeing that because I've seen it
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on Broadway, haven't seen the tour. I'm curious about the
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challenge of the tour some of the things.
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Yeah, I mean, we're not able to do everything you
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know on the tour that we do on Broadway that
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the Broadway set took I think two months to load in,
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And of course we have a dad basically for a tour,
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so it does require a different kind of economy. But
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I think we capture a lot of that feeling. I
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mean we do. We do light the auditorium in a
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way that's suggestive of the club, and you hear this music,
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this very eerie, seductive club music when you come in
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to the auditorium, and that will be true on the
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tour and awesome, and I think that that's part of
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what makes you feel like you're sort of there before
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the show starts.
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Tell us something you mentioned that looking around to see
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the elephants, is there something scenic that you would like
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people to kind of watch for in this show.
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Well, if you get a chance to look upstage of
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to lose Letres garrett He's got his set has which
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is an act to it has a big skylight in
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the back, take a look at what's in the little
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skylet miniature skyline back there. I mean, one of the
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things I sensed in the movie that I wanted to
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try to capture on stage was that the show takes
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place very much in a neighborhood. It takes place in
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mart and it's not necessarily a huge neighborhood. Like you
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get the sense that you know that they were all
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kind of lived, kind of close to each other, and
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so I wanted to convey that sense. And so I
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think if you look out the window at the Garrett,
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I think you'll see that. You'll see that Inme to Life, I.
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Will definitely look for that. What else can you share
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with us about the show?
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You know, one of the sets that we spent a
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lot of time in an Actuan is Stine's sort of apartment.
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You know. That's so that design is inspired a little
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bit by the movie, but also research. I did you
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know of Paris in eighteen ninety nine. Paris in eighteen
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nine nine was a pretty whack noodle place. There were
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a lot of really fascinating art influences going on there.
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But one of the things that were really interested in
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was the Far East India. And Morocco, and so you
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saw all of these influences in interior design, not just
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you know, around the Mula Rouge, but throughout Paris. You know,
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it's a team plays a kind of high class courtism,
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and so I did do research on Courtisan's apartments, you know,
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from that era, and a really big theme was this
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kind of Eastern exoticism, Moroccan style arches and swagged sorys
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and Indian and Chinese fabrics, and so Seteen's apartment definitely
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reflects that, you know, and so I think that's sort
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of a fun thing.
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And lastly, the music, so much music, and so much music, yeah,
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different from a lot of the music is different from
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the film is what I remember the most.
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Yeah, Well, Alex Timbers and Justin Levine, who is the
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music supervisor, wanted to capture some of the music from
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the movie. So some of those incredible songs like Roxanne
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and of course Lady Marmalade, you know, those things are
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all there. But also to make it feel a little
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more contemporary, and so it's it's been you know, some
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of it's been updated, and so you hear some more
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contemporary artists like Ci and Beyonce and you know, they're
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all in there. I think I can't remember, but it's
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something like seventy two different songs in the show. But
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some of them you just hear almost the sniffets of.
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I mean, it's part of the thing that you know
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we're talking about before. The energy of the show really,
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so much of that comes from the music and the
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kind of mashup of these music and Justin Levin did
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such a brilliant job. It's sort of layering these songs
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and creating new songs out of a conglomeration of you know,
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three different, three different songs. It was very sophisticated, but
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he did. It's you know, it's such a treat to
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listen to.
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Beforehand, you and I talked about the High School Musical
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Theater Awards. We have a lot of high school films,
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so we work with for aspiring scenic designers. What kind
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of advice would you give.
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Them, Well, I would say a couple of things is,
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you know, try to work in the theater to make
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sure you really like it. It's not an easy place
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to work necessarily, it can be very very rewarding. It's
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not for everybody. So there's nothing like you know, finding
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a way to actually work in a theater to sort
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of discover that. I think, if you actually want to
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be a design the thing that a lot of young
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designers miss is developing their drawing and their art skills.
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You know, it's easy to think of set design as
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a technical skill, but it's it's really more of an
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artistic endeavor than it is technical. You know, you I
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don't know how to build the sets that I design.
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I don't know how to work out the automation for them.
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They're people who are much smarter at those things than me.
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But what I'm really responsible for is how does the
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show work artistically, which includes how it moves and how
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it flows and all those kinds of things. But you know,
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what is it? What does it feel like? What does
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it look like? And the only way I know how
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to do that, And this is really true I think
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for other working designers is you just have to keep
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drawing it. Drawing is to a designer what writing is
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to a writer. You just you work things out with
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a pencil. And I start on every single show, include
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with a blank piece of paper, and sometimes I have
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an idea of what I want to draw, and sometimes
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I don't. But even if I don't, I just draw something.
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You know, I'll draw the most basic thing. I'll go, okay,
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well Seteen has a room. She's got a bedroom, so
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I've got to draw her bedroom and then look at
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it and say, well that doesn't look very good, But
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how do I make it better? And then you just
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redraw it. And it's that process of drawing is how
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you develop a design. And I think it's very hard
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to design something if you can't draw it. I think
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if as a young designer, you can, if you can
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nail that, you'll have a huge leg up on your competition.
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We appreciate you joining us for this special conversation. The
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DMPA Conversations podcast is produced by Andrew Downs. To our
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donors and season ticket holders, thank you for providing the
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foundation for great performances and educational opportunities at des moin
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Performing Arts. Visit DMPA dot org or wherever you get
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your podcasts for future conversations like this one. Thank you
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for listening.
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Thank you for joining us for this episode of DMPA Conversations.
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I'm Jeff Chelswig, President and CEO of Des Moines Performing Arts.
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Today I'm joined by Tony Award winner Derek McLain, scenic
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designer for Moulin Rouge, the musical, part of our Willis
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Broadway series. These podcasts are designed to give you an
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insider's perspective of the fantastic performances headed to DMPA stages.
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Thank you again for joining us, and now here's my
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conversation with Derek McLain. So, Derek, thanks so much for
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joining me today. We're talking about Mulan Rouge, and before
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we start, I want to mention that this will be
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the second show in a row that you have been
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the scene designer for. Our last Broadway show here at
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the Civic Center was MJ the Musical, which was really
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well received by our audiences. I know that they're going
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to be really through to see the production of Mulin Rouge,
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which is our.
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Next That's wonderful. I'm honored to be back there.
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That's great. Well, congratulations on winning the Tony Award for
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seeing design for Moulin Rouge. Let me start by asking
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about your background as a scenic designer. How did you
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get started?
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Well, I had done some house construction as a summer
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job prior to going to college, and I spent the
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whole summer right before starting college building a house in
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Vermont with a contractor. I was a bit of a
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grunt carpenter. I mostly carried sheets of plywood, but I
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knew a little bit about carpentry. And so when I
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was a freshman in college, somebody asked me to build
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a set because I'd heard I knew how to swing
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a hammer, and so I did. And you know, I
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never really even heard of set design prior to that,
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never contemplated as a thing, and I suddenly thought, wow,
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design this would be really really cool. And so I
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was lucky in a way that there was no theater
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program when I was in college, so therefore there was
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nobody to stop me or tell me no, I couldn't
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design sets. There's lots of shows. There was no sort
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of official department or anything, and so you know, when
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I said I wanted to design sets for some college shows,
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everybody was like, Okay, sure, go ahead. So I did.
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And the first thing I designed was a production of
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Guys and dolls that we did in the dining room.
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I was terribly proud of it. And now I cringe
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when I think about what I did, but I I
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fell in love with it instantly, and I and then
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I was lucky enough to meet Michael Urigan, who was
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designing some shows for the American Repertory Theater, and I
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kind of threw myself at his mercy and said, I
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want to be your assistant. So, you know, I assisted
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him on a few things and he asked me, you
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know what I wanted to do. I said, I wanted
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to become a set to, and he simply, you should
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probably be a Yale drama school, where he was on
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the faculty. So he helped me apply and helped me
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get in, and that's what I ended up doing. And
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then when I finished Yale, I moved to New York
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and started assisting you know, every designer I could I
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could find, which I did for probably five years. I
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learned a huge amount from the various people I assisted.
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I want to go to before we start talking about
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Mulan Ruth to ask you about how you approach in general.
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I mean, you're you're working all the time, You're working
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on theater. You also do things for television, do you
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do you do stuff for film as well?
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Or not very much? A little bit, tiny bit of film,
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but mostly I did do stuff for television, done a
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lot of award shows, and then you know, did a
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bunch of those big television musicals. Oh, yes, right, I did.
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I did design the Oscars for six years. Last year,
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I designed the SAG Awards. I said, designed the met
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Gala last year, which was wow, an interesting departure. But
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mostly most of my work is for Broadway. That's what
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I love to do.
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Well. Then let's segue to willon Rouge. So Willin Rouge
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based on the two thousand and one Baz Luhmann film,
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which is one of my favorites. I just I love
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that film for.
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A lot of Yeah too.
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Tell us about what was the process that you went through,
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because you're kind of adapting something that's very known and
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beloved for the stage.
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Yeah, for sure. And I was intimidated by that in
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some ways because it is beloved. The movie is beloved,
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rightly beloved, and it's also I would say particularly beloved
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by designers. Like design geeks sort of go crazy over
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the movie Bluey Rouge and so I kind of knew,
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like it was a real obligation designing this that you know,
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I had something to live up to and something that
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I knew would be scrutinized by all those design geeks,
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and so I was keenly aware of that. You know.
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Alex stibber Is the director, and I spent a lot
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of time talking about what it is we wanted to
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capture from the movie and what it is we wanted
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to be different. And John Logan, the book writer, was
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also very much a part of that. And there were
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many things about the movie that were not possible to
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do on stage. Of course, you know, one of the
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one of the sort of hallmarks in that movie of
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those crazy panning shots where the camera will shoot you know,
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through a room and out of window and over the
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streets of Paris and back into another room. You know,
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so some of those things you can't literally do on stage.
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But our takeaway as we analyzed it was that, you know,
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there was an incredible sense of anarchy in the movie,
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and that's what's sort of exciting and enjoyous about it,
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and also really disparate styles. You know, like the whole
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movie has a feeling of a bit of a mash
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up in terms of the way music is used and
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period Paris is creative. Period Paris is like not exactly
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period in the movie. It's like gorgeous, but it's it's
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it's you know, it's definitely its own invention. So we
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sort of set out to think about, like, one of
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the things that we can do we can successfully do
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on stage, we'll capture some of that. You know. One
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of those things was, you know, making it as environmental
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as we could, really making the audience feel like they
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were going into the club from the moment that they
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that they walk into to the theater. So that was
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that was one thing. Another thing was, you know, although
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we can't actually do jump cuts, we can make it
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feel like that by basically I made as much of
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the set electrified as I possibly could. Like there's really
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almost nothing on the set that doesn't light up somewhere,
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so it's a little bit like like a jukebox or
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a pinball machine. And what that does is, you know,
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you can ever move scenery fast enough to sort of
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create the energy of that movie, but you can move
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the lighting and you know, which obviously moves at the
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speed of light, and so that's that's what we do.
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We you know, it's sort of almost violent lighting changes
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that happened within the show, especially in that opening number,
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which is so completely you know, insane and over the
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top and has featured so many incredible songs that are
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you know, really are literally a mash up in an
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exciting way. Another thing that we did to try to
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capture the energy of the movie was normally on most shows,
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when I designed a show, I set out to be
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stylistically coherent, you know, I come up to try to
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up with a style that is consistent throughout the entire show,
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and with Will my rouge, I really did the opposite,
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Like I really deliberately made one scene in one style
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and then the next scene in a completely different style,
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so that there are things in the show that feel
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very sort of modern and contemporary and graphic, and then
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other things that feel like you're watching the nineteenth century opera.
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Those juxtapositions make the scene changes feel more surprising and
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sort of catch you off guard a little bit some nimes,
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because you don't know what's coming. You don't know you know,
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you have you go from one set to another and
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you go, wait, where did this come from? This is
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like a whole different style here, and which I think
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is consistent with the spirit of the movie.
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Right, And the windmill from that figures in a lot, right, it.
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Does figure in a lot. I mean, you know, so
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early on in the process, the producers sent me to
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Paris to other than Mula Rouge, which I did, and
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I had a wonderful time. I sat with the one
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of the owners of the Mula Rouge, watched the show.
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But one of the things, you know, obviously that's just
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unmissible is that windmill, and so I thought that would
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be just so much fun to have in the theater
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when the audience comes in, I mean, completely unnecessary, but fun.
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You know. Then I needed something to balance it. One
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of the things that was the figures in that story
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is the elephant that the team lives in at a
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plot point, so you know. But what's interesting was the
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elephant actually really existed in real mil Rouge. So windmills
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and elephants both figure into the design, both big and small.
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I mean, there's lots of different If you look carefully,
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you will find many iterations of both of those things
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in the set of Some of them you really have
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to look for.
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I'll look forward to seeing that because I've seen it
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on Broadway, haven't seen the tour. I'm curious about the
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challenge of the tour some of the things.
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Yeah, I mean, we're not able to do everything you
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know on the tour that we do on Broadway that
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the Broadway set took I think two months to load in,
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And of course we have a dad basically for a tour,
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so it does require a different kind of economy. But
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I think we capture a lot of that feeling. I
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mean we do. We do light the auditorium in a
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way that's suggestive of the club, and you hear this music,
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this very eerie, seductive club music when you come in
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to the auditorium, and that will be true on the
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tour and awesome, and I think that that's part of
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what makes you feel like you're sort of there before
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the show starts.
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Tell us something you mentioned that looking around to see
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the elephants, is there something scenic that you would like
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people to kind of watch for in this show.
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Well, if you get a chance to look upstage of
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to lose Letres garrett He's got his set has which
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is an act to it has a big skylight in
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the back, take a look at what's in the little
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skylet miniature skyline back there. I mean, one of the
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things I sensed in the movie that I wanted to
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try to capture on stage was that the show takes
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place very much in a neighborhood. It takes place in
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mart and it's not necessarily a huge neighborhood. Like you
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get the sense that you know that they were all
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kind of lived, kind of close to each other, and
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so I wanted to convey that sense. And so I
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think if you look out the window at the Garrett,
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I think you'll see that. You'll see that Inme to Life, I.
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Will definitely look for that. What else can you share
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with us about the show?
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You know, one of the sets that we spent a
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lot of time in an Actuan is Stine's sort of apartment.
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You know. That's so that design is inspired a little
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bit by the movie, but also research. I did you
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know of Paris in eighteen ninety nine. Paris in eighteen
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nine nine was a pretty whack noodle place. There were
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a lot of really fascinating art influences going on there.
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But one of the things that were really interested in
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was the Far East India. And Morocco, and so you
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saw all of these influences in interior design, not just
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you know, around the Mula Rouge, but throughout Paris. You know,
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it's a team plays a kind of high class courtism,
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and so I did do research on Courtisan's apartments, you know,
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from that era, and a really big theme was this
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kind of Eastern exoticism, Moroccan style arches and swagged sorys
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and Indian and Chinese fabrics, and so Seteen's apartment definitely
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reflects that, you know, and so I think that's sort
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of a fun thing.
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And lastly, the music, so much music, and so much music, yeah,
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different from a lot of the music is different from
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the film is what I remember the most.
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Yeah, Well, Alex Timbers and Justin Levine, who is the
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music supervisor, wanted to capture some of the music from
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the movie. So some of those incredible songs like Roxanne
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and of course Lady Marmalade, you know, those things are
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all there. But also to make it feel a little
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more contemporary, and so it's it's been you know, some
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of it's been updated, and so you hear some more
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contemporary artists like Ci and Beyonce and you know, they're
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all in there. I think I can't remember, but it's
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something like seventy two different songs in the show. But
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some of them you just hear almost the sniffets of.
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I mean, it's part of the thing that you know
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we're talking about before. The energy of the show really,
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so much of that comes from the music and the
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kind of mashup of these music and Justin Levin did
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such a brilliant job. It's sort of layering these songs
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and creating new songs out of a conglomeration of you know,
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three different, three different songs. It was very sophisticated, but
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he did. It's you know, it's such a treat to
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listen to.
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Beforehand, you and I talked about the High School Musical
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Theater Awards. We have a lot of high school films,
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so we work with for aspiring scenic designers. What kind
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of advice would you give.
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Them, Well, I would say a couple of things is,
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you know, try to work in the theater to make
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sure you really like it. It's not an easy place
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to work necessarily, it can be very very rewarding. It's
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not for everybody. So there's nothing like you know, finding
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a way to actually work in a theater to sort
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of discover that. I think, if you actually want to
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be a design the thing that a lot of young
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designers miss is developing their drawing and their art skills.
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You know, it's easy to think of set design as
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a technical skill, but it's it's really more of an
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artistic endeavor than it is technical. You know, you I
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don't know how to build the sets that I design.
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I don't know how to work out the automation for them.
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They're people who are much smarter at those things than me.
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But what I'm really responsible for is how does the
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show work artistically, which includes how it moves and how
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it flows and all those kinds of things. But you know,
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what is it? What does it feel like? What does
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it look like? And the only way I know how
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to do that, And this is really true I think
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for other working designers is you just have to keep
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drawing it. Drawing is to a designer what writing is
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to a writer. You just you work things out with
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a pencil. And I start on every single show, include
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with a blank piece of paper, and sometimes I have
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an idea of what I want to draw, and sometimes
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I don't. But even if I don't, I just draw something.
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You know, I'll draw the most basic thing. I'll go, okay,
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well Seteen has a room. She's got a bedroom, so
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I've got to draw her bedroom and then look at
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it and say, well that doesn't look very good, But
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how do I make it better? And then you just
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redraw it. And it's that process of drawing is how
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you develop a design. And I think it's very hard
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to design something if you can't draw it. I think
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if as a young designer, you can, if you can
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nail that, you'll have a huge leg up on your competition.
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We appreciate you joining us for this special conversation. The
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DMPA Conversations podcast is produced by Andrew Downs. To our
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donors and season ticket holders, thank you for providing the
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foundation for great performances and educational opportunities at des moin
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Performing Arts. Visit DMPA dot org or wherever you get
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your podcasts for future conversations like this one. Thank you
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for listening.
