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Welcome to Divine Intimacy Radio, a co-production of EWTN Radio and SpiritualDirection.com, where we provide you with a spiritual haven of rest and explore the riches of the wisdom of the saints and the path to union with God.
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This is Dan Stephanie Burke.
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Welcome to Divine Intimacy Radio, your radio haven of rest.
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Your hermitage of the heart.
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Your monastery of the mind where we lift our hearts and minds to heaven to draw upon wisdom of the saints to help us navigate this crazy life.
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This confusing life.
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Yeah.
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This tumult.
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Tumult's a good word.
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Tumult.
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Tumult.
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Tumult, sorry.
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I just wasn't correcting you.
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Yeah.
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All right.
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So today we're going to talk about obedience, communion on the tongue, husband and wife relationship, husband, wife, priest relationships.
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Fascinating question.
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Very fascinating question.
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First one that's come up about.
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Well, it's a triangle is the issue.
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I wonder if we should dissect the question.
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So just for our listeners, we have a woman who is very convicted about receiving on the tongue, which is, if you ask Teresa of Avila, that's an indication of likely a spiritual maturing.
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Mm hmm.
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not picking on her husband, but he's not there.
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And then a priest is in the midst with, and there's a kind of a conflict, a three-way conflict.
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So we're gonna try to unravel this.
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I wonder if we should talk about the husband and wife first, because I think you can speak to that best.
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And then let's talk about that situation and then add the priest in.
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Sure.
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We have a priest consulter in the studio.
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He will not come on camera.
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But he's staying with us at the retreat center that we asked about before the show just to, because he was here at his perspective.
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So we've already tapped into some wisdom there.
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Yeah.
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And to that end, you know, pray for us because I would love to get a bigger studio so we could actually have a guest with us in the studio.
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Well, it's a matter of equipment.
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I know.
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I know.
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So God funds what he desires.
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Yeah.
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So if anybody's out there that wants to fund our ability to have four chairs in here, though.
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That would be awesome.
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Yeah.
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Okay.
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Do you want me to read the question?
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Because I think it's pretty long question.
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I think we can do it part by part.
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Yeah, that's fine.
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But let's just deal with the husband and wife first.
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Okay.
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So husband is not receiving on the,
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Well, they're new converts for one.
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Okay.
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Okay.
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So I think that's, that's important.
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They came in, uh, Easter of 2025.
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Okay.
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And they're at a parish that 99% of the parishioners receive standing, uh, and in the hand.
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And just to keep us out of trouble, we affirm that the U.S. bishops are allowed to do that and to allow that, and that's a viable option granted by the Holy See.
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So that out of the way.
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So I guess, what does the husband want in this situation, do we know from the question?
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From the question, I didn't in it didn't indicate that he was against her receiving kneeling on the tongue because she wants to kneel and receive on the tongue.
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He stands and receives in the hand.
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Right.
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So there's you know, they're not on the same page.
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Yeah.
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in that area, but that's not uncommon because it's super common that one spouse comes to conversion first, comes to reversion first, gets set on fire, wants to kind of go deeper.
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But there were both, I don't want to, because we don't know, I mean, the husband could be very holy, just hasn't come to that conviction yet about this situation.
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And I also want to affirm in this that
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kneeling on the tongue is still the universal norm of the church.
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It cannot rightly be prohibited in any context in terms of how the church understands it.
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And even in the document, Moriali Domini, that approved communion in the hand, it noted that most of the bishops in the world disagreed with the decision
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And there was an argument made in the very document itself that receiving kneeling and on the hand kneeling and on the tongue, I should say, but it focuses on the tongue is a very holy, humble, good, recommended way to receive and that the Eucharist needs to be protected.
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So I just want to affirm this woman.
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in her desire, her conviction of the heart to do so because, I mean, and it's a big thing.
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It's not a minor thing to kneel and receive on the tongue when almost nobody around you does, when your husband does it.
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It takes courage.
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It takes a lot of courage.
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I will never forget one of these beautiful members of our community who knelt to receive and her priest denied her time and time again.
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Right.
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And she knelt before him and he told her, stand up.
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And she looked at him with conviction, but reverence and said, she is a very humble woman.
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She's a, she's a wonderful, wonderful soul.
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And she said, I will kneel for my God and my King.
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I will kneel for my God and my King.
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It gives me chills.
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I just think about that.
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There's a fire in her and I know because she's wonderful.
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Right?
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He did give her communion.
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He ended up giving her communion.
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I remember being at a church in Florida.
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I'll just name the state.
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I won't name the parish or any of that because I don't actually remember, though you probably do, but let's not go there.
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And I went up to receive and I waited till the back of the line because I didn't, you know, was nobody was receiving on the tongue.
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And I knelt and the priest said to me, no, like like that.
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Well, he.
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yelled at you actually he actually yeah so he yells at me no stand up yeah no and i just looked at him and i said very quietly father i cannot receive in the hand yeah and he turned on his heel and walked off and left me which he denied me the lord that's worthy of disciplinary action and i just prayed for him you know um i pray for all of our priests because they're human just like we are but they have a very difficult job
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it is um so i guess you know battle's real i was trying to separate the husband and wife okay so let's let's talk about the husband and wife so so it would be really hard for me if i had that burning conviction in my heart yeah um and you said i want you to stand and receive but he didn't say it he didn't right no and if i said that to you what would we do yeah
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I would wait till we were both in consolation.
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I'd probably, you know, convince us to fast a year, go out to dinner, have a glass of wine and say, honey, I really, really, really love you.
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And I really respect you.
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Yeah.
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This is why this burns in my heart.
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This is my heart.
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You know, because when you show your heart, who's going to who's going to tell you?
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That you don't burn for Jesus like that.
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You know, I would hope so.
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Right.
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So I think there's ways to navigate that in a marriage without causing division or problems, disunity.
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And there's so many that, you know, the wife actually, it's usually the wife, it's not always the wife, but it's usually the wife that comes to a deeper conversion.
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Yeah, women are more open.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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But I really, I think your advice is really, really good.
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Wait till you're both in consolation.
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If you don't understand the Sermon of Spirits, you know, just wait till you're both in a positive mood, no conflict.
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Do separate yourself out like you recommended a dinner.
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Do have a glass of wine unless you don't drink, but get yourself out of the normal context.
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Do not do this on the fly because the enemy is going to try to cause division between your husband.
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And this is, of all things, how you receive communion should drive us to unity because it's in essence a proclamation of unity with God.
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the church, which means the teaching authority of the church, the magisterial authority, the communion of saints, the people, you know, so it's actually an action of unity.
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We should never allow it to divide us.
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Right.
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And when you say it's an action of unity, you're not saying that we have to do it the same way.
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No, no.
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And okay, so this is good.
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Yeah.
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So this is a false claim that's often repeated in these contexts by those who are not informed well.
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And I've even heard by a priest friend who's very well formed, it kind of shocked me when he said, you know, do as everyone else does for the sake of unity.
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And I want to, and I never addressed it with him, I will one day, but the problem is he's way smarter than me, so I have to be, you know, really ready for it.
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Uh, you do not, you never conform, uh, to a call to unity on the basis of untruth.
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It, it isn't, if there's liturgical abuse or if there are norms that are being ignored or rights that are being ignored.
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And denied or denied.
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You don't, you don't go, okay, for the sake of unity, I will do the wrong thing for the sake of unity.
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I'll, I'll, you know, it, it, it's, it's contradictory.
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Right.
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It makes no sense.
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And you can tie it into any sacrament, any religious observance, you know, any, any sin out there.
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It's mostly in mass.
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Right.
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Talked about.
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Right.
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Yeah.
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It's like, well, if everybody kneels at the wrong time, just kneel.
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It's like, no, I'm, you know,
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I'm deeply convicted about this.
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I'm going to follow church teaching.
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Our community has, you know, there are 20 something rights in the church.
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Our community has a bunch of them, Byzantine, traditional Latin mass, ordinary form, Maronite, you know, so we have people from all over the world and we tell them is do what the church teaches.
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In whatever form that you are following.
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And in this case, she is following church teaching.
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She is.
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And her husband is doing what the church allows.
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Right.
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And so both ought to be allowed to do that in peace, really.
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Yeah.
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So let's, as we get ready to break, let me tell you what the priest did.
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So first...
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he told her because before she received first Holy Communion, he said, yes, you may receive kneeling on the tongue because she asked.
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Yeah.
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And so presumably husband was there too or whatever.
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He said something.
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He said, you may do that as long as you don't hold up the line.
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And it takes longer.
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Forgive me.
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That's an eye roll.
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I'm not good at eye roll.
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God bless him.
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I just, I hear that argument and I'm like, really?
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Yeah.
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Honestly?
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Let's just be honest.
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It's not a real argument.
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It's just, I don't like this.
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And so when, you know, you always know when people don't have a rational, logical argument,
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you know, properly ordered response, they give you some goofy thing that has, you know, on the surface.
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And, and that's what this is.
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It's just, I don't like it is really what's happening.
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I don't like it.
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So I'm just saying in a passive aggressive way, I don't like it.
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So don't hold anyone up, you know, come on.
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two seconds, if that one second more.
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So for a while she did.
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Yeah.
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And then he came back to her and said, you need to receive standing and in your hand so that you won't cause division in your marriage or in the rest of the community.
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So that's where we are.
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And her dilemma is she
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understands that becoming a Catholic, there's a, there's a, you know, there's already a huge, well, when I converted, there's this, when I converted, there's a real sense like she has, it was hard to convert because I'm not, I'm not Lone Ranger Jesus guy.
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Now I have to submit and obey.
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I, you know, there's, there's a bigger system here that I believe is established by Jesus and
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And I have to be properly subject to it.
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And she has that dilemma as well going on.
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So when we get back from the break, we're going to talk about, like, what does she do?
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Yeah.
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Okay.
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We'll be right back.
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Welcome back to Divine Intimacy Radio.
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We are talking about this challenge of a woman, newly convert, new convert, both of them, right?
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And she's convicted to receive kneeling and on the tongue, her husband standing, no condemnation either way.
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The priest initially said, fine.
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But don't hold up the line.
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Don't hold the line.
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And then he came back and said, Hey, you know, I, I want you to stop doing this.
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You need to be in unity with your husband.
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And there's only a few others in the parish that are kneeling.
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They're the exception.
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Right.
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They're the exception.
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So, and I, I don't know.
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So now I mentioned before we have a priest advisor in the studio.
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We will not be on camera.
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but asked him if we had missed anything from the previous segment.
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And he said, because we said, for husband and wife purposes, Stephanie said, you know, go to dinner.
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Be in consolation.
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Say, I love you dearly.
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Share your heart, your wife to husband.
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Carefully.
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I love the Lord.
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I'm not contradicting you.
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I want to be in union with you.
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I have to do this, you know.
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But we said do it in consolation.
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Our priest friend said, make sure you're in a state of grace, which is huge.
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So huge.
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So then the sequence is go to confession, go to mass, receive the Lord, go out to dinner, a nice dinner, nice dinner, consolation, glass of wine, then hit the subject.
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OK, so that's a good addition.
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So now we have the priest situation who is, he was first passive aggressive.
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Now he's, I think probably watching it happen and just annoyed with it.
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I'm not, we're not assuming he's a bad priest or anything like that.
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No, but it's just not something totally out of the ordinary.
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We hear about these things.
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We've seen it.
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We've experienced it.
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It's an ordinary form issue.
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And it's very unfortunate because, you know, and the Vatican's been really clear.
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You know, I've heard it over and over from Cardinal Renzi and others.
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Leave them alone in their devotion.
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Let them be devoted to the Lord.
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So and there's no reason to bash this priest.
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And I don't like criticizing priests in general.
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However, in this case, it's not right.
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It's just not.
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And I'm telling you, as a new Catholic, it's not.
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Now, the likelihood you're going to change anything is very low, but I'll give you the formula, if you will, we use in our community for situations like this.
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And it's one we adopt in Apostoli VA, I mean.
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We adopt because we're super concerned about being reverent towards our priests and respectful towards our priests, whoever they are, even if we don't agree, right?
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So we always tell folks, if you have an issue with your priest, fast for a month for the priest.
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And then, you know, the secret sauce is that'll change your heart too.
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And ask the Lord to give you a deep love for him, a deep respect for him.
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Ask the Lord to make your hearts one.
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And then just, and then you go after a month.
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And in the meantime, by the way, between...
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In a state of grace.
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In a state of grace, yeah.
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But in the meantime...
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Make sure you're telling your priest a good thing that he's doing.
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Yeah.
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I think it's, it's really, that's a really important point.
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Yeah.
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Our priests hear over and over again, what they're doing wrong, what we don't like.
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Yeah.
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If they say something in their homily that offends us, we meet them at the back door and we threatened to take our, our tithe or we're going to go to the bishop or whatever.
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And I, you know,
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ick cringe yeah it's just terrible why do we live this way we're supposed to be one yeah one and and be discreet and loving and prudent and careful with each other right you need to see the priest as a human being who is created for an eternal relationship with love with god
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You know, and unfortunately, we've been through a really bad period of formation, you know, so we need to be kind and patient.
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But fasting and then during that month, compliment the priest honestly.
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on one or two things separate times, if you can, on what's going right.
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Cause that sends a signal to him.
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You're not just one of those complainers.
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You know, those who are more oriented to tradition can be tend to be more harsh or more demanding and more, you know, coming off in a way that I think is very off putting the priest.
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I'm not saying that perception is right or well, but I, you know,
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I'm on the traditional end of the spectrum.
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So I'm one of you if you're wincing right now, but it's true.
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So fast for a month every day, something, if it's a portion of a meal, if it's, you know, if it's...
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It's the drive-thru, the Starbucks.
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Your chips or, you know, your coffee for the purpose of developing a deeper heart of love for your priest.
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And for the purpose of unity and the ability to actually connect heart to heart with Jesus present.
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Pray for the priest.
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So she could go and just say, in that context, I really, I love you.
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I respect you as my priest.
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And I want to be an obedience to you.
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But I understand that the church allows for both.
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And I'm going to just continue.
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But I don't mean to be disrespectful to you at all.
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And then you don't have to ask for permission in that context.
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You have the right to do that.
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Right.
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So you're just doing you're doing it in a way where you're saying, I love and respect you.
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Now, if you get blasted in that context, our priest advisor in the studio, our secret priest advisor in the studio said, find another parish.
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Yeah.
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Now, sometimes it's easier said than done.
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If you're out in the middle of Timbuktu, I don't know where is Timbuktu anyway?
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I don't know.
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Yeah.
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So anyway, if you're out in the middle of nowhere, it may be difficult to find, you know, another option for you.
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But nevertheless, let's say you don't have another option or...
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And a lot of people will drive an hour, for instance, to go to a reverent mass, an hour one way.
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We used to do that in Denver to go to mass with Archbishop Chaput.
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Such a beautiful experience.
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Amazing.
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God bless Archbishop Chaput.
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We would drive an hour every Sunday.
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Daily mass is harder.
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You can't do that every day.
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Yeah.
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I think one thing to, to encourage her, um, all, all of this being true and all, you know, everything that we've said, um, starting, you know, when, when the Lord is going to start something in a parish, he's going to pick a soul, you know, he's going to drop a, you know, a beautiful drop of grace on that person, convict them.
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Then they start thinking and praying about it, ruminating on it and, um,
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Saying, oh, well, maybe I want to do this.
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And then they start down that path.
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I mean, starting a gospel encounter group, you know, praying for your priest, starting an apostolate of pray for your priest.
318
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You know, all these things start with a drop of inspiration from the Holy Spirit that starts to move.
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Yeah.
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So I want to encourage you to because I remember years and years and years ago when I when I finally felt convicted to wear a veil.
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Now, if you see me out in the world, nine times out of 10, I have forgotten my veil.
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Just so you know, it's usually gets less left on the dash of my car.
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Yeah, it's just a terrible bad habit.
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But I love to wear my veil.
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And when I started wearing the veil, there were like three of us in the parish.
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I look in there and it's like spreads like wildfire.
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Like I'll give you another, it's probably half of the parish now that wears a veil.
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Yeah.
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Um, the, the traditional Latin mass has grown in that community where, and we also attended that parish.
330
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I mean, it's, it's beautiful.
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So if it's good and right and holy, and if it's within what the church allows, um,
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Sometimes we have to be the ones that step out.
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And do it humbly.
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Right.
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That same cathedral didn't use a communion patent before we were there.
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Now they do.
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Another parish, you know, closer by here now uses a communion patent.
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And it was all because of this approach of,
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very respectful, you know, supporting the priest, prayerful, even when you don't agree, kindness.
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I mean, you in one parish got the whole, there was an illicit mass, valid but illicit mass that was going on.
341
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And you and I were both very at odds.
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ideologically, theologically with this priest.
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I would say he had horrific formation and perspectives, but because you are respectful to him, you,
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he actually made it a big change.
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He did.
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In the Holy Second.
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We don't have to go into the details.
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There was actually two changes at that parish, two different priests.
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So it was fascinating.
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But same approach.
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Prayer, sacrifice, being humble in the approach.
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I'm not claiming to be humble.
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As soon as you claim to be humble, you're not.
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So I have one last question before we go.
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Sure, sure.
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Because a little different scenario didn't come up here.
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What if her husband told her he didn't like it?
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Doesn't like that she does it.
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00:23:48.868 --> 00:23:49.150
Yeah.
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Yeah.
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00:23:50.157 --> 00:23:50.721
What would you do?
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00:23:52.360 --> 00:23:55.702
Well, you and I don't agree on everything, right?
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00:23:55.943 --> 00:23:56.963
Well, but I'm right.
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So it's not really a problem for me.
365
00:24:00.746 --> 00:24:04.148
Because, you know, yeah, because I'm married to Dan Burke, right?
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00:24:04.208 --> 00:24:04.869
Yeah.
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00:24:05.589 --> 00:24:05.870
Yeah.
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00:24:05.990 --> 00:24:07.611
Girls, don't you believe that?
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You know, I think, again, it's love builds a bridge over which truth can pass.
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Brilliant line.
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00:24:14.736 --> 00:24:15.576
Yeah.
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Some guy named Dan Burke said it.
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Love builds a bridge over which truth can pass, right?
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Yeah.
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Should she stop for a time out of respect until they have these meeting of hearts?
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00:24:29.934 --> 00:24:30.956
I don't know that I could.
377
00:24:30.976 --> 00:24:32.037
Yeah.
378
00:24:32.558 --> 00:24:34.561
Because we're talking about...
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00:24:35.928 --> 00:24:43.495
you know, because it is, I, I cannot bring myself to touch the blessed sacrament.
380
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I cannot do it.
381
00:24:45.517 --> 00:24:55.006
I quit being an, uh, an extraordinary minister, a minister of Holy communion, because when the Lord convicted me with that, cause I used to do it as a principal, uh,
382
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as a Catholic principal, because we, you know, got to hurry up with mass.
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00:25:00.907 --> 00:25:03.368
Once that hit me, I was like, I can't.
384
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My hands are not consecrated.
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Only the priest's hands are consecrated.
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It makes me want to cry.
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I can't touch my Lord.
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I can't.
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So...
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I just, you know, if her husband listens to this, I'd beg him to understand her heart and maybe just say, okay, well, let's, let's study something together.
391
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Let's read about it.
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Let's look at resources.
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Let's see what's out there.
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00:25:31.821 --> 00:25:34.163
Bishop Athanasia Schneider, it is the Lord.
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Yeah.
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It is the Lord.
397
00:25:35.763 --> 00:25:36.084
Yeah.
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00:25:36.604 --> 00:25:36.764
Yeah.
399
00:25:36.804 --> 00:25:38.124
That's a great resource.
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00:25:38.684 --> 00:25:39.785
Read it together.
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00:25:39.805 --> 00:25:45.107
Agree to disagree in unity and love and respect for one another.
402
00:25:45.127 --> 00:25:50.829
And read that together and make that your time together.
403
00:25:50.849 --> 00:25:51.469
I will.
404
00:25:51.709 --> 00:25:52.009
I can.
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00:25:52.690 --> 00:25:53.630
I can promise you.
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00:25:54.230 --> 00:26:11.444
What's going to happen is your language, your intimacy is actually going to grow as a couple because you're going to start to actually have conversations, deep conversations about these things that really matter with an expert in the middle that you can then ruminate and think about and talk about.
407
00:26:11.904 --> 00:26:12.684
Yeah, I think you're right.
408
00:26:12.704 --> 00:26:13.904
There's great resources out there.
409
00:26:13.924 --> 00:26:20.206
Brant Petrie, Dr. Scott Hahn on understanding the Eucharistic and draw how to be his.
410
00:26:21.026 --> 00:26:22.386
How to be his, right.
411
00:26:22.426 --> 00:26:40.230
I had a part in recently on Eucharistic adoration and drawing to a consecration to the Lord and Eucharist by Jesse Mango, Father Jesse Mango and Ignatius Schweitzer at Sophia Institute Press.
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00:26:40.910 --> 00:26:44.553
For all resources in this area, head out to spiritualdirection.com.
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00:26:44.573 --> 00:26:49.176
If you're looking for holy, healthy community life, apostoliva.org.
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00:26:49.396 --> 00:26:54.200
A-P-O-S-T-O-L-I-E-L-I-B-I-A-E.org.
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00:26:55.061 --> 00:26:58.884
Until next time, may the God of peace make you perfect in holiness.
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May he preserve you whole and entire, spirit, soul, and body, irreproachable with the coming of our Lord, Jesus Christ.
417
00:27:08.191 --> 00:27:08.351
Amen.
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00:27:11.766 --> 00:27:13.407
Learn more about the interior life.
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00:27:13.667 --> 00:27:15.729
Visit SpiritualDirection.com.
420
00:27:16.089 --> 00:27:26.616
Divine Intimacy Radio is a co-production of EWTN Radio and SpiritualDirection.com and heard worldwide on the EWTN Global Catholic Radio Network.
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Welcome to Divine Intimacy Radio, a co-production of EWTN Radio and SpiritualDirection.com, where we provide you with a spiritual haven of rest and explore the riches of the wisdom of the saints and the path to union with God.
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This is Dan Stephanie Burke.
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Welcome to Divine Intimacy Radio, your radio haven of rest.
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Your hermitage of the heart.
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Your monastery of the mind where we lift our hearts and minds to heaven to draw upon wisdom of the saints to help us navigate this crazy life.
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This confusing life.
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Yeah.
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This tumult.
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Tumult's a good word.
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Tumult.
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Tumult.
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Tumult, sorry.
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I just wasn't correcting you.
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Yeah.
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All right.
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So today we're going to talk about obedience, communion on the tongue, husband and wife relationship, husband, wife, priest relationships.
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Fascinating question.
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Very fascinating question.
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First one that's come up about.
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Well, it's a triangle is the issue.
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I wonder if we should dissect the question.
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So just for our listeners, we have a woman who is very convicted about receiving on the tongue, which is, if you ask Teresa of Avila, that's an indication of likely a spiritual maturing.
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Mm hmm.
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not picking on her husband, but he's not there.
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And then a priest is in the midst with, and there's a kind of a conflict, a three-way conflict.
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So we're gonna try to unravel this.
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I wonder if we should talk about the husband and wife first, because I think you can speak to that best.
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And then let's talk about that situation and then add the priest in.
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Sure.
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We have a priest consulter in the studio.
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He will not come on camera.
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But he's staying with us at the retreat center that we asked about before the show just to, because he was here at his perspective.
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So we've already tapped into some wisdom there.
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Yeah.
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And to that end, you know, pray for us because I would love to get a bigger studio so we could actually have a guest with us in the studio.
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Well, it's a matter of equipment.
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I know.
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I know.
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So God funds what he desires.
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Yeah.
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So if anybody's out there that wants to fund our ability to have four chairs in here, though.
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That would be awesome.
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Yeah.
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Okay.
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Do you want me to read the question?
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Because I think it's pretty long question.
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I think we can do it part by part.
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Yeah, that's fine.
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But let's just deal with the husband and wife first.
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Okay.
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So husband is not receiving on the,
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Well, they're new converts for one.
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Okay.
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Okay.
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So I think that's, that's important.
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They came in, uh, Easter of 2025.
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Okay.
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And they're at a parish that 99% of the parishioners receive standing, uh, and in the hand.
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And just to keep us out of trouble, we affirm that the U.S. bishops are allowed to do that and to allow that, and that's a viable option granted by the Holy See.
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So that out of the way.
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So I guess, what does the husband want in this situation, do we know from the question?
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From the question, I didn't in it didn't indicate that he was against her receiving kneeling on the tongue because she wants to kneel and receive on the tongue.
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He stands and receives in the hand.
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Right.
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So there's you know, they're not on the same page.
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Yeah.
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in that area, but that's not uncommon because it's super common that one spouse comes to conversion first, comes to reversion first, gets set on fire, wants to kind of go deeper.
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But there were both, I don't want to, because we don't know, I mean, the husband could be very holy, just hasn't come to that conviction yet about this situation.
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And I also want to affirm in this that
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kneeling on the tongue is still the universal norm of the church.
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It cannot rightly be prohibited in any context in terms of how the church understands it.
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And even in the document, Moriali Domini, that approved communion in the hand, it noted that most of the bishops in the world disagreed with the decision
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And there was an argument made in the very document itself that receiving kneeling and on the hand kneeling and on the tongue, I should say, but it focuses on the tongue is a very holy, humble, good, recommended way to receive and that the Eucharist needs to be protected.
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So I just want to affirm this woman.
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in her desire, her conviction of the heart to do so because, I mean, and it's a big thing.
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It's not a minor thing to kneel and receive on the tongue when almost nobody around you does, when your husband does it.
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It takes courage.
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It takes a lot of courage.
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I will never forget one of these beautiful members of our community who knelt to receive and her priest denied her time and time again.
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Right.
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And she knelt before him and he told her, stand up.
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And she looked at him with conviction, but reverence and said, she is a very humble woman.
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She's a, she's a wonderful, wonderful soul.
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And she said, I will kneel for my God and my King.
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I will kneel for my God and my King.
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It gives me chills.
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I just think about that.
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There's a fire in her and I know because she's wonderful.
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Right?
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He did give her communion.
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He ended up giving her communion.
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I remember being at a church in Florida.
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I'll just name the state.
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I won't name the parish or any of that because I don't actually remember, though you probably do, but let's not go there.
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And I went up to receive and I waited till the back of the line because I didn't, you know, was nobody was receiving on the tongue.
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And I knelt and the priest said to me, no, like like that.
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Well, he.
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yelled at you actually he actually yeah so he yells at me no stand up yeah no and i just looked at him and i said very quietly father i cannot receive in the hand yeah and he turned on his heel and walked off and left me which he denied me the lord that's worthy of disciplinary action and i just prayed for him you know um i pray for all of our priests because they're human just like we are but they have a very difficult job
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it is um so i guess you know battle's real i was trying to separate the husband and wife okay so let's let's talk about the husband and wife so so it would be really hard for me if i had that burning conviction in my heart yeah um and you said i want you to stand and receive but he didn't say it he didn't right no and if i said that to you what would we do yeah
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I would wait till we were both in consolation.
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I'd probably, you know, convince us to fast a year, go out to dinner, have a glass of wine and say, honey, I really, really, really love you.
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And I really respect you.
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Yeah.
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This is why this burns in my heart.
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This is my heart.
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You know, because when you show your heart, who's going to who's going to tell you?
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That you don't burn for Jesus like that.
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You know, I would hope so.
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Right.
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So I think there's ways to navigate that in a marriage without causing division or problems, disunity.
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And there's so many that, you know, the wife actually, it's usually the wife, it's not always the wife, but it's usually the wife that comes to a deeper conversion.
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Yeah, women are more open.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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But I really, I think your advice is really, really good.
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Wait till you're both in consolation.
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If you don't understand the Sermon of Spirits, you know, just wait till you're both in a positive mood, no conflict.
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Do separate yourself out like you recommended a dinner.
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Do have a glass of wine unless you don't drink, but get yourself out of the normal context.
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Do not do this on the fly because the enemy is going to try to cause division between your husband.
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And this is, of all things, how you receive communion should drive us to unity because it's in essence a proclamation of unity with God.
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the church, which means the teaching authority of the church, the magisterial authority, the communion of saints, the people, you know, so it's actually an action of unity.
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We should never allow it to divide us.
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Right.
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And when you say it's an action of unity, you're not saying that we have to do it the same way.
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No, no.
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And okay, so this is good.
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Yeah.
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So this is a false claim that's often repeated in these contexts by those who are not informed well.
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And I've even heard by a priest friend who's very well formed, it kind of shocked me when he said, you know, do as everyone else does for the sake of unity.
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And I want to, and I never addressed it with him, I will one day, but the problem is he's way smarter than me, so I have to be, you know, really ready for it.
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Uh, you do not, you never conform, uh, to a call to unity on the basis of untruth.
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It, it isn't, if there's liturgical abuse or if there are norms that are being ignored or rights that are being ignored.
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And denied or denied.
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You don't, you don't go, okay, for the sake of unity, I will do the wrong thing for the sake of unity.
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I'll, I'll, you know, it, it, it's, it's contradictory.
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Right.
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It makes no sense.
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And you can tie it into any sacrament, any religious observance, you know, any, any sin out there.
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It's mostly in mass.
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Right.
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Talked about.
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Right.
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Yeah.
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It's like, well, if everybody kneels at the wrong time, just kneel.
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It's like, no, I'm, you know,
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I'm deeply convicted about this.
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I'm going to follow church teaching.
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Our community has, you know, there are 20 something rights in the church.
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Our community has a bunch of them, Byzantine, traditional Latin mass, ordinary form, Maronite, you know, so we have people from all over the world and we tell them is do what the church teaches.
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In whatever form that you are following.
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And in this case, she is following church teaching.
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She is.
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And her husband is doing what the church allows.
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Right.
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And so both ought to be allowed to do that in peace, really.
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Yeah.
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So let's, as we get ready to break, let me tell you what the priest did.
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So first...
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he told her because before she received first Holy Communion, he said, yes, you may receive kneeling on the tongue because she asked.
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Yeah.
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And so presumably husband was there too or whatever.
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He said something.
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He said, you may do that as long as you don't hold up the line.
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And it takes longer.
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Forgive me.
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That's an eye roll.
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I'm not good at eye roll.
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God bless him.
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I just, I hear that argument and I'm like, really?
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Yeah.
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Honestly?
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Let's just be honest.
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It's not a real argument.
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It's just, I don't like this.
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And so when, you know, you always know when people don't have a rational, logical argument,
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you know, properly ordered response, they give you some goofy thing that has, you know, on the surface.
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And, and that's what this is.
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It's just, I don't like it is really what's happening.
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I don't like it.
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So I'm just saying in a passive aggressive way, I don't like it.
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So don't hold anyone up, you know, come on.
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two seconds, if that one second more.
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So for a while she did.
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Yeah.
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And then he came back to her and said, you need to receive standing and in your hand so that you won't cause division in your marriage or in the rest of the community.
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So that's where we are.
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And her dilemma is she
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understands that becoming a Catholic, there's a, there's a, you know, there's already a huge, well, when I converted, there's this, when I converted, there's a real sense like she has, it was hard to convert because I'm not, I'm not Lone Ranger Jesus guy.
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Now I have to submit and obey.
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I, you know, there's, there's a bigger system here that I believe is established by Jesus and
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And I have to be properly subject to it.
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And she has that dilemma as well going on.
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So when we get back from the break, we're going to talk about, like, what does she do?
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Yeah.
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Okay.
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We'll be right back.
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Welcome back to Divine Intimacy Radio.
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We are talking about this challenge of a woman, newly convert, new convert, both of them, right?
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And she's convicted to receive kneeling and on the tongue, her husband standing, no condemnation either way.
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The priest initially said, fine.
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But don't hold up the line.
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Don't hold the line.
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And then he came back and said, Hey, you know, I, I want you to stop doing this.
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You need to be in unity with your husband.
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And there's only a few others in the parish that are kneeling.
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They're the exception.
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Right.
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They're the exception.
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So, and I, I don't know.
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So now I mentioned before we have a priest advisor in the studio.
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We will not be on camera.
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but asked him if we had missed anything from the previous segment.
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And he said, because we said, for husband and wife purposes, Stephanie said, you know, go to dinner.
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Be in consolation.
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Say, I love you dearly.
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Share your heart, your wife to husband.
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Carefully.
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I love the Lord.
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I'm not contradicting you.
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I want to be in union with you.
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I have to do this, you know.
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But we said do it in consolation.
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Our priest friend said, make sure you're in a state of grace, which is huge.
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So huge.
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So then the sequence is go to confession, go to mass, receive the Lord, go out to dinner, a nice dinner, nice dinner, consolation, glass of wine, then hit the subject.
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OK, so that's a good addition.
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So now we have the priest situation who is, he was first passive aggressive.
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Now he's, I think probably watching it happen and just annoyed with it.
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I'm not, we're not assuming he's a bad priest or anything like that.
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No, but it's just not something totally out of the ordinary.
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We hear about these things.
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We've seen it.
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We've experienced it.
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It's an ordinary form issue.
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And it's very unfortunate because, you know, and the Vatican's been really clear.
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You know, I've heard it over and over from Cardinal Renzi and others.
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Leave them alone in their devotion.
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Let them be devoted to the Lord.
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So and there's no reason to bash this priest.
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And I don't like criticizing priests in general.
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However, in this case, it's not right.
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It's just not.
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And I'm telling you, as a new Catholic, it's not.
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Now, the likelihood you're going to change anything is very low, but I'll give you the formula, if you will, we use in our community for situations like this.
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And it's one we adopt in Apostoli VA, I mean.
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We adopt because we're super concerned about being reverent towards our priests and respectful towards our priests, whoever they are, even if we don't agree, right?
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So we always tell folks, if you have an issue with your priest, fast for a month for the priest.
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And then, you know, the secret sauce is that'll change your heart too.
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And ask the Lord to give you a deep love for him, a deep respect for him.
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Ask the Lord to make your hearts one.
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And then just, and then you go after a month.
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And in the meantime, by the way, between...
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In a state of grace.
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In a state of grace, yeah.
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But in the meantime...
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Make sure you're telling your priest a good thing that he's doing.
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Yeah.
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I think it's, it's really, that's a really important point.
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Yeah.
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Our priests hear over and over again, what they're doing wrong, what we don't like.
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Yeah.
269
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If they say something in their homily that offends us, we meet them at the back door and we threatened to take our, our tithe or we're going to go to the bishop or whatever.
270
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And I, you know,
271
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ick cringe yeah it's just terrible why do we live this way we're supposed to be one yeah one and and be discreet and loving and prudent and careful with each other right you need to see the priest as a human being who is created for an eternal relationship with love with god
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You know, and unfortunately, we've been through a really bad period of formation, you know, so we need to be kind and patient.
273
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But fasting and then during that month, compliment the priest honestly.
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on one or two things separate times, if you can, on what's going right.
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Cause that sends a signal to him.
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You're not just one of those complainers.
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You know, those who are more oriented to tradition can be tend to be more harsh or more demanding and more, you know, coming off in a way that I think is very off putting the priest.
278
00:18:53.818 --> 00:18:57.400
I'm not saying that perception is right or well, but I, you know,
279
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I'm on the traditional end of the spectrum.
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So I'm one of you if you're wincing right now, but it's true.
281
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So fast for a month every day, something, if it's a portion of a meal, if it's, you know, if it's...
282
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It's the drive-thru, the Starbucks.
283
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Your chips or, you know, your coffee for the purpose of developing a deeper heart of love for your priest.
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And for the purpose of unity and the ability to actually connect heart to heart with Jesus present.
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Pray for the priest.
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So she could go and just say, in that context, I really, I love you.
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I respect you as my priest.
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And I want to be an obedience to you.
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But I understand that the church allows for both.
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And I'm going to just continue.
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But I don't mean to be disrespectful to you at all.
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And then you don't have to ask for permission in that context.
293
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You have the right to do that.
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Right.
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So you're just doing you're doing it in a way where you're saying, I love and respect you.
296
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Now, if you get blasted in that context, our priest advisor in the studio, our secret priest advisor in the studio said, find another parish.
297
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Yeah.
298
00:20:02.705 --> 00:20:04.766
Now, sometimes it's easier said than done.
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If you're out in the middle of Timbuktu, I don't know where is Timbuktu anyway?
300
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I don't know.
301
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Yeah.
302
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So anyway, if you're out in the middle of nowhere, it may be difficult to find, you know, another option for you.
303
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But nevertheless, let's say you don't have another option or...
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And a lot of people will drive an hour, for instance, to go to a reverent mass, an hour one way.
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We used to do that in Denver to go to mass with Archbishop Chaput.
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Such a beautiful experience.
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Amazing.
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God bless Archbishop Chaput.
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We would drive an hour every Sunday.
310
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Daily mass is harder.
311
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You can't do that every day.
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Yeah.
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I think one thing to, to encourage her, um, all, all of this being true and all, you know, everything that we've said, um, starting, you know, when, when the Lord is going to start something in a parish, he's going to pick a soul, you know, he's going to drop a, you know, a beautiful drop of grace on that person, convict them.
314
00:21:10.880 --> 00:21:14.082
Then they start thinking and praying about it, ruminating on it and, um,
315
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Saying, oh, well, maybe I want to do this.
316
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And then they start down that path.
317
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I mean, starting a gospel encounter group, you know, praying for your priest, starting an apostolate of pray for your priest.
318
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You know, all these things start with a drop of inspiration from the Holy Spirit that starts to move.
319
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Yeah.
320
00:21:33.602 --> 00:21:41.527
So I want to encourage you to because I remember years and years and years ago when I when I finally felt convicted to wear a veil.
321
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Now, if you see me out in the world, nine times out of 10, I have forgotten my veil.
322
00:21:46.870 --> 00:21:51.133
Just so you know, it's usually gets less left on the dash of my car.
323
00:21:51.153 --> 00:21:53.014
Yeah, it's just a terrible bad habit.
324
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But I love to wear my veil.
325
00:21:55.876 --> 00:22:00.018
And when I started wearing the veil, there were like three of us in the parish.
326
00:22:03.961 --> 00:22:07.203
I look in there and it's like spreads like wildfire.
327
00:22:07.323 --> 00:22:11.806
Like I'll give you another, it's probably half of the parish now that wears a veil.
328
00:22:11.946 --> 00:22:12.126
Yeah.
329
00:22:12.567 --> 00:22:18.711
Um, the, the traditional Latin mass has grown in that community where, and we also attended that parish.
330
00:22:19.131 --> 00:22:20.633
I mean, it's, it's beautiful.
331
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So if it's good and right and holy, and if it's within what the church allows, um,
332
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Sometimes we have to be the ones that step out.
333
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And do it humbly.
334
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Right.
335
00:22:31.758 --> 00:22:35.540
That same cathedral didn't use a communion patent before we were there.
336
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Now they do.
337
00:22:37.080 --> 00:22:41.801
Another parish, you know, closer by here now uses a communion patent.
338
00:22:42.141 --> 00:22:43.842
And it was all because of this approach of,
339
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very respectful, you know, supporting the priest, prayerful, even when you don't agree, kindness.
340
00:22:53.826 --> 00:23:04.871
I mean, you in one parish got the whole, there was an illicit mass, valid but illicit mass that was going on.
341
00:23:05.331 --> 00:23:08.413
And you and I were both very at odds.
342
00:23:09.353 --> 00:23:11.697
ideologically, theologically with this priest.
343
00:23:11.737 --> 00:23:18.448
I would say he had horrific formation and perspectives, but because you are respectful to him, you,
344
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he actually made it a big change.
345
00:23:21.615 --> 00:23:21.996
He did.
346
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In the Holy Second.
347
00:23:22.796 --> 00:23:24.397
We don't have to go into the details.
348
00:23:24.417 --> 00:23:27.339
There was actually two changes at that parish, two different priests.
349
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So it was fascinating.
350
00:23:29.320 --> 00:23:30.461
But same approach.
351
00:23:31.822 --> 00:23:35.484
Prayer, sacrifice, being humble in the approach.
352
00:23:35.724 --> 00:23:37.005
I'm not claiming to be humble.
353
00:23:37.145 --> 00:23:38.786
As soon as you claim to be humble, you're not.
354
00:23:39.106 --> 00:23:41.247
So I have one last question before we go.
355
00:23:41.387 --> 00:23:41.748
Sure, sure.
356
00:23:41.868 --> 00:23:43.869
Because a little different scenario didn't come up here.
357
00:23:44.129 --> 00:23:45.830
What if her husband told her he didn't like it?
358
00:23:47.439 --> 00:23:48.707
Doesn't like that she does it.
359
00:23:48.868 --> 00:23:49.150
Yeah.
360
00:23:49.654 --> 00:23:49.875
Yeah.
361
00:23:50.157 --> 00:23:50.721
What would you do?
362
00:23:52.360 --> 00:23:55.702
Well, you and I don't agree on everything, right?
363
00:23:55.943 --> 00:23:56.963
Well, but I'm right.
364
00:23:58.925 --> 00:24:00.366
So it's not really a problem for me.
365
00:24:00.746 --> 00:24:04.148
Because, you know, yeah, because I'm married to Dan Burke, right?
366
00:24:04.208 --> 00:24:04.869
Yeah.
367
00:24:05.589 --> 00:24:05.870
Yeah.
368
00:24:05.990 --> 00:24:07.611
Girls, don't you believe that?
369
00:24:08.692 --> 00:24:13.575
You know, I think, again, it's love builds a bridge over which truth can pass.
370
00:24:13.855 --> 00:24:14.476
Brilliant line.
371
00:24:14.736 --> 00:24:15.576
Yeah.
372
00:24:15.757 --> 00:24:17.138
Some guy named Dan Burke said it.
373
00:24:17.558 --> 00:24:19.739
Love builds a bridge over which truth can pass, right?
374
00:24:19.759 --> 00:24:19.879
Yeah.
375
00:24:20.840 --> 00:24:27.691
Should she stop for a time out of respect until they have these meeting of hearts?
376
00:24:29.934 --> 00:24:30.956
I don't know that I could.
377
00:24:30.976 --> 00:24:32.037
Yeah.
378
00:24:32.558 --> 00:24:34.561
Because we're talking about...
379
00:24:35.928 --> 00:24:43.495
you know, because it is, I, I cannot bring myself to touch the blessed sacrament.
380
00:24:43.655 --> 00:24:44.956
I cannot do it.
381
00:24:45.517 --> 00:24:55.006
I quit being an, uh, an extraordinary minister, a minister of Holy communion, because when the Lord convicted me with that, cause I used to do it as a principal, uh,
382
00:24:55.746 --> 00:25:00.007
as a Catholic principal, because we, you know, got to hurry up with mass.
383
00:25:00.907 --> 00:25:03.368
Once that hit me, I was like, I can't.
384
00:25:03.948 --> 00:25:07.169
My hands are not consecrated.
385
00:25:08.089 --> 00:25:10.230
Only the priest's hands are consecrated.
386
00:25:10.670 --> 00:25:12.011
It makes me want to cry.
387
00:25:12.031 --> 00:25:14.271
I can't touch my Lord.
388
00:25:14.811 --> 00:25:15.471
I can't.
389
00:25:16.212 --> 00:25:16.472
So...
390
00:25:17.992 --> 00:25:27.398
I just, you know, if her husband listens to this, I'd beg him to understand her heart and maybe just say, okay, well, let's, let's study something together.
391
00:25:27.799 --> 00:25:29.099
Let's read about it.
392
00:25:29.159 --> 00:25:30.660
Let's look at resources.
393
00:25:30.720 --> 00:25:31.801
Let's see what's out there.
394
00:25:31.821 --> 00:25:34.163
Bishop Athanasia Schneider, it is the Lord.
395
00:25:34.203 --> 00:25:34.443
Yeah.
396
00:25:34.803 --> 00:25:35.723
It is the Lord.
397
00:25:35.763 --> 00:25:36.084
Yeah.
398
00:25:36.604 --> 00:25:36.764
Yeah.
399
00:25:36.804 --> 00:25:38.124
That's a great resource.
400
00:25:38.684 --> 00:25:39.785
Read it together.
401
00:25:39.805 --> 00:25:45.107
Agree to disagree in unity and love and respect for one another.
402
00:25:45.127 --> 00:25:50.829
And read that together and make that your time together.
403
00:25:50.849 --> 00:25:51.469
I will.
404
00:25:51.709 --> 00:25:52.009
I can.
405
00:25:52.690 --> 00:25:53.630
I can promise you.
406
00:25:54.230 --> 00:26:11.444
What's going to happen is your language, your intimacy is actually going to grow as a couple because you're going to start to actually have conversations, deep conversations about these things that really matter with an expert in the middle that you can then ruminate and think about and talk about.
407
00:26:11.904 --> 00:26:12.684
Yeah, I think you're right.
408
00:26:12.704 --> 00:26:13.904
There's great resources out there.
409
00:26:13.924 --> 00:26:20.206
Brant Petrie, Dr. Scott Hahn on understanding the Eucharistic and draw how to be his.
410
00:26:21.026 --> 00:26:22.386
How to be his, right.
411
00:26:22.426 --> 00:26:40.230
I had a part in recently on Eucharistic adoration and drawing to a consecration to the Lord and Eucharist by Jesse Mango, Father Jesse Mango and Ignatius Schweitzer at Sophia Institute Press.
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00:26:40.910 --> 00:26:44.553
For all resources in this area, head out to spiritualdirection.com.
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00:26:44.573 --> 00:26:49.176
If you're looking for holy, healthy community life, apostoliva.org.
414
00:26:49.396 --> 00:26:54.200
A-P-O-S-T-O-L-I-E-L-I-B-I-A-E.org.
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00:26:55.061 --> 00:26:58.884
Until next time, may the God of peace make you perfect in holiness.
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May he preserve you whole and entire, spirit, soul, and body, irreproachable with the coming of our Lord, Jesus Christ.
417
00:27:08.191 --> 00:27:08.351
Amen.
418
00:27:11.766 --> 00:27:13.407
Learn more about the interior life.
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Visit SpiritualDirection.com.
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Divine Intimacy Radio is a co-production of EWTN Radio and SpiritualDirection.com and heard worldwide on the EWTN Global Catholic Radio Network.
