WEBVTT
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This is Divine Interruption.
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I'm Sarah Hildreth Rankin.
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Hi, welcome back.
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So I'm gonna pick up where I left off in my Sex and Relationship series a little while ago now.
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I just can't seem to express all of these things that are coming up for me in a linear fashion.
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It's almost like they just tell me when they want to make themselves known.
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So I've bounced around quite a bit.
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But right now, this experience, again, is getting loud and it's like talk about the last relationships, and I just like can't stop thinking about it.
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And really, that's quite a reflection of life.
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Like we're a big jumble of experiences and thoughts and memories and perceptions, and it's not all neat and tidy.
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So of course, this process is not gonna be neat and tidy.
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So let's go back.
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If you haven't listened to any of the episodes in this series, I would recommend it.
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I mean, it really does show a progression over time, and there's gonna be references that are gonna make more sense if you've listened to the past episodes.
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So if you haven't listened to any of them, I would recommend starting with episode 14, that seating disenchantment, and just following each episode after that.
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And my last one in this series was episode 23, Under the Influence.
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So they'll all be linked in the show notes here if you just want to pop down and start somewhere.
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Heads up, I'm gonna mention sex in this episode, nothing scandalous or graphic.
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I'm just letting you know.
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So, after a couple years of living in this small town, this mountain town, Jasper, especially after all of the experiences that I'd had, the assault I talked about in my last episode, really a general shift had definitely occurred.
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All of these experiences, one after another, just compounded on each other.
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I'd really been shown and told again and again how much I didn't matter.
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I felt like I wasn't attractive.
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I wasn't girlfriend material, I was disposable.
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You know, men only wanted to sleep with me, but there was also something really shameful and embarrassing about sleeping with me.
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And I became fodder for lies and jokes and humiliation.
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I came to the conclusion that I just wasn't the kind of girl worth respect or time or kindness.
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And I really started to believe what life was showing me.
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So all of these experiences led me to believe this now about myself.
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Now, I'd had an experience with an older man during my first summer there who actually took me on a few dates.
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And he's like, hey, I want to take you on a tour around town, you're new, and maybe we can go for a beer after.
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And he actually wanted to get to know me as a person.
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And then he offered to have me over another time and he cooked dinner for me.
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And we had a lot in common.
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Like he was really funny, he was thoughtful, he was respectful.
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He invited me to be and hang out with his friends.
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But I remember deep down just knowing that I wasn't into having a relationship with him.
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Like I did not want to take it further, but it was really hard because I really liked him.
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But I was 19.
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And he must have been in his mid-30s at the time.
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And it just wasn't for me.
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Like I knew that.
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But at the same time, you know, it was like I was making a friend, I was making a connection, and I didn't know a lot of people.
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And he was just so nice, you know, and like kind.
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And I was like, oh, I really enjoy being with him.
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I just don't want to be in a relationship with him, or I don't want anything romantically.
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I didn't want to hurt his feelings.
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I didn't want to make it weird.
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I didn't want him to think that I was leading him on.
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It was really hard.
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I don't know, it was hard.
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But we moved through it.
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We moved on.
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I don't know if I was very upfront with him, likely not, seeing as my track record was like null at that point of speaking up or saying anything at all at that point.
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But he was actually mature about it, as far as I remember.
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You know, we could still talk, I could still see him at work, I could see him out around town, and he was still kind to me and didn't bring anything up or make me feel like I was a horrible person.
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But over the course of the next year or so, as I had all of these other experiences, something shifted somewhere along the lines.
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And I'm not sure if it was conscious or not, but it was like I came to the conclusion, after so many degrading and damaging interactions with men my own age, as I've talked about throughout this series.
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Now I felt the only place I could land would be with an older man.
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And it was actually this earlier experience with this older man when I first moved there that was a part of that.
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It was like he had imprinted something on me before this chaotic storm of really losing myself had started to happen.
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Because that was one of the only interactions where it actually felt like I'd been safe, where I'd been in control on some level, where he respected me as a human being above all of the other things.
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He had treated me like an equal, like I was worthy of attention, kindness, interest.
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He told me that he was attracted to me.
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He told me that I mattered and, you know, really gave me respect.
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And I think after that experience, I kind of equated this sense of safety and approval with older men.
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It didn't necessarily mean I wanted to be in relationship with much older men, but I had somehow attached these two things.
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I put together an equation in my brain that said youth equals value.
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Because I didn't seem to have anything that men in my dating pool wanted.
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But with older men, I actually had a valuable currency.
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And that currency was my age.
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They would want me, they would approve of me, they would respect me, they would have me.
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And energy is so funny like that.
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You've likely experienced this in one way or another.
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Once you've made some sort of internal shift and your perception is different about whatever it may be, what shows up for you in your daily life is different.
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And it's not that these older men didn't exist before, as I'm going to talk about, but now it's like I had opened a tiny crack in a window somewhere inside of me.
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And now older men were appearing in my life differently.
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So I'd gotten to know many people working at this bakery, locals and the like.
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It was a normal hangout for retired folk, and it was always a regular stop-off before people went to work or for coffee breaks or lunchtime.
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And there was this RAF guide who would come in every so often.
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We're going to call him Steve.
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He was upbeat, he was talkative, he was friendly.
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He was that guy that knew everyone and would talk to literally anyone.
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And you always knew when he was around.
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So he was loud, he took up space, he had this booming voice.
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He was definitely much older than me.
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I was 20 at the time, but he also seemed just young because he was living this lifestyle of someone in their early 20s.
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And he just had a lot of energy.
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One night I was out with my friends, we were at the bar and we ran into him.
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And he was so excited to see us.
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He'd say, Bay Creek girls, bay creek girls, which was actually a common thing that happened to all of the women who worked there frequently with different people.
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And he ended up dancing with us all night.
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And as we walked home, I remember he was walking with us and he's like, Oh, my place is on the way.
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He was very, very drunk.
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And we just kind of walked with him or making jokes.
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And at some point, we split off to go to our place, but he keeps walking with us.
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And we're like, okay, like we didn't really know what his deal was, but we're like, okay.
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And then we go into our house and then he just follows us into our house.
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And we're like, this is kind of weird.
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What do we do?
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I don't know.
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I remember we both climbed into the same bed and just put the covers over our head and we're like, what's gonna happen?
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What's happening?
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Do we do anything?
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Do we tell him to leave?
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What's happening?
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It was just one of those awkward situations.
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And at some point he got just disoriented, as if he's like, Where am I?
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And then he just left.
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Because I remember thinking, do I like, do I don't want anything to happen with this guy?
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This is this guy that we just see around town.
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He's older.
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Like, that's weird.
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No.
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But then I would see him around more often and see him out again at the pub and the bar.
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And, you know, now he would come sit with us.
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And I remember thinking, oh, he's so friendly.
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He's so outgoing.
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You know, he's being nice to me.
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Uh, he's showing me attention.
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Do I, do I like him?
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And then at some point over the course of time, we did end up sleeping together.
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I had developed this crush on him.
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And after being together the first time, we kind of continued to see each other.
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And it was that awkward phase of anything where you just you don't know where the other person stands, and maybe they don't know where you stand or what you want.
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And so then you just don't talk about it, right?
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It it, I don't know, it was confusing.
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I would see Steve out at a coffee shop or the laundromat or the video store, and we would talk and we would banter just like he did with everyone else, and then that was kind of it.
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Except that randomly he would also show up at my place late at night and we would have sex, or he would invite me over to his place when his roommate was away and we would sleep together.
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There was never any discussion if he liked me or what this was or where it was going.
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It was happening consistently.
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I think really I was already used to getting my hopes up, regardless, and like assuming that a relationship was not possible for me.
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So I just kind of kept going with this situation.
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And I tried to push past the disappointment I felt in him maybe not wanting anything more with me.
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And I was trying to actively move on because this is happening over the course of months, right?
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Where we're doing this again and again.
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And I'm like, oh, I like you.
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And I'm like, oh no, I like you more.
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But no, no, no, okay.
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I can't say anything.
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He obviously doesn't want to do this.
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And when I say I was trying to move on, of course I don't actually mean I moved on.
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You know, that would that would be too healthy.
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That would be too obvious.
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It just meant I continued to sleep with him randomly in the background whenever he came calling.
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Now, the weird thing was that once I'd slept with Steve, it was as if like the word got out or something.
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And I'm not saying that's actually what happened, but it was as if the universe said, oh, okay, oh, you're actually serious about this.
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Hmm.
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This is what you believe you want, or what you think you're worth.
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This is what you want now.
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Well, oh, okay, here you go.
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It was as if all these older men started coming out of the woodwork.
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Men who had previously just been older guys in town, regulars at the bakery, railroad guys or construction workers, just ordinary older men out of my purview romantically.
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Now they were showing up differently.
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These were customers, dad types, people who I connected with through my job.
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These were men that I had gotten to know in a friendly, you know, peer kind of way, often like in an almost paternal capacity.
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These were the men who would talk to me every morning, you know, check in on me, see how I was doing, how my day was going.
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And I got to know them really well.
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And because I was newly living on my own, it did feel that these relationships really mattered to me.
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You know, they were a part of my community, and that was really important, having community.
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And that's also something really special with a small town that I found was oh, there is a community here.
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People know each other and they show up for each other.
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So these men would ask me about my future plans or how my weekend was going, and sometimes they would offer support or advice, those kinds of things.
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So these relationships mattered.
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But now these men, many of them, were starting to shape shift.
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And it was as if the rules had just changed or something, the boundaries they just started to bend and change.
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There was the divorced railroader.
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He had two teenage sons.
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I would serve him coffee multiple times a day.
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And after, I'd say, a year and a half, two years, he invited me and my friend to this large get-together at his house.
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Oh, come to my house.
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I'm having a big thing.
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And then we find out that this large get-together has turned into like, oh no, it's an exclusive party.
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Okay, then the exclusive party becomes an exclusive hot tub party.
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And then the exclusive hot tub party, we are now requested to wear bikinis to.
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So we did not go to said party.
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But this man had just shifted one day, and all of a sudden he was asking us to go to his house and wear bikinis.
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And I was like, no, you're like my dad.
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I thought we were friends.
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There was the coffee supplier I'd been working with for a long time.
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I was out at the bar one evening and he sought me out.
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He's like, hey, can I buy you a drink?
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I said, sure.
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Like I thought we were just friendly through work because that had always been the case.
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He was at least 25 years older than me.
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But he definitely thought something was going to happen.
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And he became so rude and aggressive when I wouldn't allow him to kiss me after I drank my Long Island iced tea.
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And he was double upset when I didn't accept his offer.
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Point blank, he just asked me, come home with me.
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And I said, no.
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But it was apparently him buying me this one drink at 4:30 on a Thursday that entitled him to my body after we'd only talked about coffee for like two years.
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Or there was my friend's literal dad, who I'd gotten to know along with my other friends, when he'd come into the bakery or we'd occasionally, you know, see him at her house.
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He offered to buy me a drink one night out.
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And when I said, no, no, thank you, he was visibly upset and he just put that on me.
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It was as if I was this person who should be giving him this thing.
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He needed this interaction, and there was something at play here.
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Later, I was told that he had known and had mentioned that he knew I was into older guys.
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And I was like, What?
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What is this weird thing?
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How does he know this?
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That's not even necessarily true.
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But yeah, all of these people were showing up in new ways.
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And it was as if after I had the shift in mentality around my youth being my value, and continuing, of course, to randomly sleep with Steve, things just changed in this weird way.
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And I didn't necessarily want this to happen.
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It was part conscious, part unconscious.
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I didn't particularly like having these older men suddenly see me as available or openly shifting from a safe platonic friend to a potential sexual conquest.
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That's not what I wanted.
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It didn't necessarily feel good.
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And it made things really confusing for me.
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I just didn't know where the boundaries were.
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And now I don't know.
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I started to almost like not trust people.
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I didn't trust what their intentions were.
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I felt like these boundaries were so muddied that I didn't know if I could just be nice to someone, right?
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Are they going to misconstrue that?
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Is it going to come across the wrong way?
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And then are they going to be upset with me?
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And then they're not going to talk to me.
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Like it became really muddled.
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But in a messed up way, I had also now confirmed that older men did see value in me when other more age-appropriate men didn't.
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So it didn't matter that perhaps I felt like, ugh, like a bit of a yuck factor in there.
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Or maybe that I didn't always find them attractive, specifically for me in terms of like age at that time, or even that maybe I judged them for liking me that way.
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Like it was all very effed up.
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But I had gone beyond any boundary I may have had.
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And now it was almost like it's all fair game.
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So as I am still seeing Steve in the background, all these other things are happening on a day-to-day basis, right?
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And one of those particular men that I fully remember, he was a regular tradesman.
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He would come into the bakery frequently.
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He was really friendly.
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He was very soft-spoken, like he barely said anything.
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He wouldn't even make eye contact sometimes.
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He was very shy.
00:17:47.440 --> 00:17:50.799
But there was also something very masculine about him.
00:17:50.960 --> 00:17:53.519
Like he was super scorched from the sun.
00:17:53.680 --> 00:17:55.279
He would wear overalls.
00:17:55.759 --> 00:18:00.799
His clothes were always covered in like sawdust or paint or grease.
00:18:01.279 --> 00:18:03.759
And I can't tell you why this did it for me.
00:18:04.000 --> 00:18:05.119
It still does.
00:18:05.839 --> 00:18:10.160
He would wear one earring, just like a tiny little hoop earring.
00:18:10.240 --> 00:18:13.039
And then he would put a pencil behind his ear.
00:18:13.839 --> 00:18:17.920
Oh, I just I called him Carpenter Man.
00:18:18.480 --> 00:18:26.160
One night at the pub, I remember someone saying, Do you ever, you know, think that you have daddy issues?
00:18:26.559 --> 00:18:29.759
And then this guy, he points over, and there's Carpenter Man.
00:18:29.839 --> 00:18:35.599
He's at the bar, and he says, Cause if you do, maybe you should talk to my friend here.
00:18:35.839 --> 00:18:40.079
But just he said, the caveat is like, do not break his heart.
00:18:40.319 --> 00:18:40.960
So I did.
00:18:41.039 --> 00:18:45.920
I went over and I sat with him and I had a very long conversation about Jamaican rum.
00:18:46.079 --> 00:18:50.559
He was extremely drunk, but I got to know him a little bit better.
00:18:50.880 --> 00:18:52.480
I don't really know how I felt.
00:18:52.559 --> 00:18:54.480
It was more just like, oh, this is nice.
00:18:54.640 --> 00:18:57.839
This is fun, you know, didn't think too much of it.
00:18:58.079 --> 00:19:10.559
The next day he came into the bakery, and as he's going to pay, he takes the pencil from behind his ear and he put it behind mine.
00:19:11.599 --> 00:19:13.839
And I almost died.
00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:21.039
It was like the most exciting and romantic moment I wanted to explode.
00:19:21.200 --> 00:19:21.599
I don't know.
00:19:21.680 --> 00:19:22.960
It was just like all these things at once.
00:19:23.039 --> 00:19:26.000
I was like, wow, that is so attractive.
00:19:26.160 --> 00:19:28.079
That is so romantic.
00:19:28.640 --> 00:19:31.359
And here's the thing: like, I was attracted to him.
00:19:31.599 --> 00:19:35.039
And I also felt that he was just a really good person.
00:19:35.440 --> 00:19:44.160
And he gave me those same feelings as the older guy that I'd been out with when I'd first arrived in town, like that safe feeling.
00:19:44.480 --> 00:19:49.359
But I did also feel like he was definitely too old for me.
00:19:49.519 --> 00:19:54.559
And I also felt uncomfortable imagining like actually doing anything with him.
00:19:55.039 --> 00:19:57.599
And I think that's, you know, what you call instinct.
00:19:57.759 --> 00:19:58.880
That's what you call intuition.
00:19:59.039 --> 00:19:59.759
Like I already knew.
00:19:59.839 --> 00:20:02.400
I was like, oh, I don't want to be in a relationship with this person.
00:20:02.480 --> 00:20:03.759
This isn't for me.
00:20:04.400 --> 00:20:12.960
But there was this part of me that had been rejected, that had been ripped apart, that had been abused and put down like again and again.
00:20:13.279 --> 00:20:18.400
And that part of me like needed to know that I was valuable and worthwhile.
00:20:18.720 --> 00:20:23.279
That very like childlike part of me who just wanted to feel accepted, like cared for.
00:20:23.440 --> 00:20:24.960
I wanted to be wanted by someone.
00:20:25.039 --> 00:20:30.160
And so I let something happen with Carpenter Man.
00:20:30.319 --> 00:20:34.160
I saw him out again one night after we had many drinks.
00:20:34.319 --> 00:20:35.920
We stumbled together through town.
00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:37.440
We ran across a schoolyard.
00:20:37.519 --> 00:20:39.519
We laid in a field and looked at the stars.
00:20:39.759 --> 00:20:41.119
Like it was all super nice.
00:20:41.279 --> 00:20:43.279
And it was exciting.
00:20:43.519 --> 00:20:48.079
But I remember being like very consciously, like, do I want to do this?
00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:50.480
Like, uh, this is a good person.
00:20:50.960 --> 00:20:52.160
What am I doing?
00:20:52.400 --> 00:21:13.680
I think it's even being at that age when you want experiences and you're craving to live life, and you almost need to bump up against things to figure out sometimes how you feel or what you want or what that would be like, which is kind of it's obviously very exciting, but it's confusing and people can get hurt along the way.
00:21:14.240 --> 00:21:16.799
And in a way, like I already knew, right?
00:21:16.960 --> 00:21:28.640
I already knew, like, nah, I'm not gonna want to do this again or be with this person seriously, but can I then hang out with him in this capacity and no one will get hurt?
00:21:28.720 --> 00:21:30.960
Like I already knew it was not a good idea.
00:21:31.200 --> 00:21:36.160
But there we are, lying in the field, looking at the stars, and he's like, oh, let's go to my place.
00:21:36.319 --> 00:21:37.599
So I follow him.
00:21:37.759 --> 00:21:42.799
He takes me up a fire escape of an old house, and then we're making out on this fire escape.
00:21:42.880 --> 00:21:50.079
And I'm like, okay, like we're in the moonlight, we're on the railing, and we're out in the open, and it was just really exciting.
00:21:50.240 --> 00:21:51.119
And it was different.
00:21:51.279 --> 00:21:54.240
And I just tried to be in the moment.
00:21:54.960 --> 00:21:56.880
We eventually make it into his house.
00:21:57.039 --> 00:21:59.759
He lived in this really tiny attic assembly.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:02.880
Essentially, with a triangle ceiling.
00:22:03.279 --> 00:22:09.279
And he tells me, This is the bed that I built for myself out of like the old oak tree.
00:22:09.359 --> 00:22:10.559
I'm like, oh, wow.
00:22:10.720 --> 00:22:12.880
And then he introduces me to his dog.
00:22:13.119 --> 00:22:15.200
It's like this old golden retriever.
00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:17.119
He's like, this is yellow dog.
00:22:17.440 --> 00:22:21.599
Like, oh, like straight out of like old yellow from the 1950s.
00:22:21.920 --> 00:22:27.680
Like everything about him was like good and solid and real and honest.
00:22:28.480 --> 00:22:30.799
We're making out, we're sitting on some chair.
00:22:30.880 --> 00:22:32.079
I'm sitting on top of him.
00:22:32.160 --> 00:22:35.119
And at some point, I just like pull off his hat.
00:22:36.079 --> 00:22:41.519
And that's when I realized he was completely bald under there.
00:22:41.920 --> 00:22:48.400
He had the ring of hair at the bottom, but the rest of his head was just shiny and smooth and bald.
00:22:48.960 --> 00:22:50.880
And look, no judgment.
00:22:50.960 --> 00:22:52.960
Like we don't have control over these things, right?
00:22:53.039 --> 00:22:55.759
And I don't find baldness unattractive at all.
00:22:56.000 --> 00:23:03.200
It's just that it was really unexpected because I'd never seen him without a hat before and I hadn't thought about that.
00:23:03.359 --> 00:23:08.240
And then all of a sudden, this put like a marker in the sand around our age difference.
00:23:08.400 --> 00:23:10.160
I was like, oh, okay.
00:23:10.319 --> 00:23:13.680
Like you are significantly older than I am.
00:23:13.920 --> 00:23:14.880
We had sex.
00:23:15.599 --> 00:23:25.759
And after he goes to use the bathroom, which is unfortunately, you know, in his tiny attic room right across from the bed.
00:23:26.079 --> 00:23:31.519
And unfortunately has a curtain for a door, just for the most obvious reasons.
00:23:31.680 --> 00:23:33.119
Like it was just really embarrassing.
00:23:33.279 --> 00:23:34.480
And look, we're all human.
00:23:34.640 --> 00:23:40.799
It doesn't have to be embarrassing to use the bathroom, but oh boy, like he's just in there and I'm hearing everything.
00:23:41.039 --> 00:23:50.160
And I was like still very much at that age where my comfortability with things like that, like I didn't know how to deal with a situation like that.
00:23:50.240 --> 00:23:51.920
And I just like couldn't talk about it.
00:23:52.000 --> 00:23:53.440
I couldn't make light of it.
00:23:53.599 --> 00:23:56.960
I grew up in a home where nothing like that existed.
00:23:57.039 --> 00:23:58.960
Oh, no one uses the bathroom.
00:23:59.200 --> 00:24:00.880
No one passes gas, right?
00:24:01.039 --> 00:24:04.000
So I was like, oh my gosh, I'm hearing it and I feel so embarrassed.
00:24:04.079 --> 00:24:05.200
I don't know what to do.
00:24:05.440 --> 00:24:09.359
And there was one other night where he just showed up at my place.
00:24:09.599 --> 00:24:12.400
Now, whenever I say this, I'm like, I think I've said this a lot.
00:24:12.640 --> 00:24:14.480
I keep wondering how all of that happened.
00:24:14.640 --> 00:24:16.960
How are people just always showing up at my place?
00:24:17.200 --> 00:24:18.640
But that really did happen.
00:24:18.720 --> 00:24:22.720
I think it was a small town thing and also a not having a cell phone thing.
00:24:23.039 --> 00:24:24.160
Doesn't matter.
00:24:24.400 --> 00:24:26.000
He shows up at my place.
00:24:26.240 --> 00:24:28.960
He smells like gasoline and sawdust.
00:24:29.119 --> 00:24:31.599
He barely talks, and we do stuff.
00:24:31.680 --> 00:24:32.880
He wakes up early in the morning.
00:24:32.960 --> 00:24:37.680
He's like, I need to go take care of yellow dog and I need to get back to building houses.
00:24:37.839 --> 00:24:41.279
You know, he's very stoic and has this work to do.
00:24:41.839 --> 00:24:46.160
And my roommate comes in shortly after and she's like, Hey, can you come out and see this?
00:24:46.319 --> 00:24:47.359
Like, what is this?
00:24:47.599 --> 00:25:03.200
I go out to the hallway with her, and she points at the walls, and I'm like, oh, there were like hand prints and greasy smudge marks all along the walls, leading all the way from my room down the hallway, up to the front door.
00:25:03.599 --> 00:25:11.359
He was literally coated in grease and hard work, and he left his mark on our apartment, and he lived up to his name.
00:25:11.599 --> 00:25:13.920
He was the carpenter man.
00:25:14.480 --> 00:25:18.799
Now, I don't want this to come across as judgmental because it's really not meant to be.
00:25:19.039 --> 00:25:22.559
I just felt like we were from two entirely different worlds.
00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:25.119
We had these stark differences, right?
00:25:25.359 --> 00:25:30.160
His age, his lifestyle, his background, how he communicated.
00:25:30.480 --> 00:25:33.680
He had this life, he had this work that he did.
00:25:33.920 --> 00:25:36.480
Everything was kind of set up for him.
00:25:37.039 --> 00:25:39.920
And I just was like, oh no.
00:25:40.160 --> 00:25:43.920
All those differences is what made it so exciting and like interesting and charged, right?
00:25:44.000 --> 00:25:44.960
Like we didn't even talk.
00:25:45.039 --> 00:25:50.160
It was just like, you are a man covered in Greece, and I'm kind of into this.
00:25:50.720 --> 00:25:57.599
But I already knew the first time we'd been introduced that I wasn't prepared to be like serious about anyone.
00:25:57.680 --> 00:26:02.880
But I also felt kind of guilty and gross for, you know, hanging out with him in that way.
00:26:03.119 --> 00:26:08.400
Even if it was just to experiment and like I enjoyed his company and all of that, I was like, oh, is this like unfair?
00:26:08.559 --> 00:26:11.119
And I did not know how to voice that.
00:26:11.440 --> 00:26:14.480
And honestly, age was a thing.
00:26:14.720 --> 00:26:17.599
I didn't actually want to date older men.
00:26:17.759 --> 00:26:28.799
I knew it wasn't going to work for me, even when they were kind, good, solid, interesting people at that age, what, 19, 20, 21, like age did matter.
00:26:29.119 --> 00:26:34.000
And a guy being, you know, 15 plus years older than me did make a difference.
00:26:34.240 --> 00:26:36.960
It's so obvious to see this in hindsight.
00:26:37.119 --> 00:26:41.920
But at the time, my subconscious fears just kept pushing this narrative.
00:26:42.240 --> 00:26:43.440
This is your future.
00:26:43.599 --> 00:26:44.960
This is the only way.
00:26:45.279 --> 00:26:46.960
You need to make this concession.
00:26:47.119 --> 00:26:48.079
You're not good enough.
00:26:48.240 --> 00:26:49.200
Take what you can get.
00:26:49.359 --> 00:26:50.400
No one else will love you.
00:26:50.559 --> 00:26:52.480
No one else finds you attractive.
00:26:52.799 --> 00:26:58.160
So I overrode those feelings of already knowing, oh no, this isn't for me.
00:26:58.319 --> 00:26:59.599
This is going to get messy.
00:26:59.680 --> 00:27:00.799
It's going to get tangled.
00:27:00.960 --> 00:27:03.440
I still like wanted to see if it would work, right?
00:27:03.519 --> 00:27:11.759
I'm like, no, but Sarah, you have to do this because like you no one else is ever going to want to be with you and you're going to be alone forever, whatever those things are.
00:27:12.240 --> 00:27:19.519
And in keeping with my track record of the time, I secretly hoped that this experience would kind of fade into the background.
00:27:19.599 --> 00:27:26.880
And I'm like, oh, we can keep those experiences on a shelf for what they were, and we'll never have to, you know, deal with it.
00:27:27.200 --> 00:27:32.400
But then I would see his red truck, you know, driving down the main strip of town.
00:27:32.480 --> 00:27:34.400
And I'd see yellow dog in the back.
00:27:34.480 --> 00:27:37.519
And I'd know, I'm like, oh, I'd like actually start to panic.
00:27:37.599 --> 00:27:38.240
I would feel sick.
00:27:38.319 --> 00:27:40.720
I'm like, oh no, like he's gonna slow down.
00:27:40.880 --> 00:27:42.160
He's gonna say hi.
00:27:42.720 --> 00:27:44.400
And I did not want to be mean.
00:27:44.559 --> 00:27:50.000
I didn't also want to like lead him on to think that I wanted more, even though I'm like, I really like you.
00:27:50.240 --> 00:27:52.000
Obviously, it just like felt hard, right?
00:27:52.079 --> 00:27:54.240
It felt hard, it felt confusing.
00:27:54.559 --> 00:27:57.440
And as far as I remember, I never said anything.
00:27:57.680 --> 00:27:59.440
I never was honest.
00:27:59.599 --> 00:28:00.799
I never expressed myself.
00:28:00.880 --> 00:28:06.319
I just probably pretended like it didn't happen, which is not helpful for anyone.
00:28:06.880 --> 00:28:09.599
But yeah, in the background, Steve was still around.
00:28:09.759 --> 00:28:11.279
We were still sleeping together.
00:28:11.440 --> 00:28:13.920
He was still not acknowledging that it was anything.
00:28:14.079 --> 00:28:18.319
And I'm pretty sure I was making it known in certain ways that I wanted more.
00:28:18.480 --> 00:28:20.319
I was trying to turn it into more.
00:28:21.039 --> 00:28:30.880
But everything he was showing me, you know, in the way that we were communicating or that we'd be meeting on his bequest at night, was saying, like, this isn't for you, Sarah.
00:28:30.960 --> 00:28:32.400
Like, this isn't gonna work.
00:28:32.880 --> 00:28:35.759
But I just didn't think I was worth anything better.
00:28:35.920 --> 00:28:36.559
I really didn't.
00:28:36.640 --> 00:28:41.759
And I didn't think someone else was going to come along, or the fact that I actually like did also like him.
00:28:41.839 --> 00:28:45.200
I was like, oh, okay, well, these two things are combined.
00:28:45.359 --> 00:28:47.599
Like, this is all I've got.
00:28:47.920 --> 00:28:53.279
And I also want to say, I don't actually have any judgment about age gap relationships.
00:28:53.359 --> 00:28:56.079
And I think for many people, it likely could work.
00:28:56.240 --> 00:28:57.119
Do you know what I mean?
00:28:57.359 --> 00:29:01.599
For me at the time, the experiences I did have, they just were not working.
00:29:01.680 --> 00:29:03.839
And I already felt that they weren't for me.
00:29:04.000 --> 00:29:08.960
It's not an objective, you know, judgment on everyone because I don't think that's the case.
00:29:09.039 --> 00:29:15.039
And I think it can work out, but I had feelings already, and yet I kind of overrode those feelings at the time.
00:29:15.359 --> 00:29:22.720
So we'll pick up in the next episode about Steve and the slow train wreck that ensues after that.
00:29:22.960 --> 00:29:23.920
Okay, thanks so much.
00:29:24.079 --> 00:29:24.799
Watch you again.
00:29:24.960 --> 00:29:25.359
Bye.
00:00:08.400 --> 00:00:10.880
This is Divine Interruption.
00:00:11.119 --> 00:00:13.519
I'm Sarah Hildreth Rankin.
00:00:15.759 --> 00:00:17.679
Hi, welcome back.
00:00:18.079 --> 00:00:25.280
So I'm gonna pick up where I left off in my Sex and Relationship series a little while ago now.
00:00:25.600 --> 00:00:32.799
I just can't seem to express all of these things that are coming up for me in a linear fashion.
00:00:32.960 --> 00:00:37.840
It's almost like they just tell me when they want to make themselves known.
00:00:37.920 --> 00:00:40.079
So I've bounced around quite a bit.
00:00:40.399 --> 00:00:49.200
But right now, this experience, again, is getting loud and it's like talk about the last relationships, and I just like can't stop thinking about it.
00:00:49.439 --> 00:00:51.920
And really, that's quite a reflection of life.
00:00:52.079 --> 00:00:59.359
Like we're a big jumble of experiences and thoughts and memories and perceptions, and it's not all neat and tidy.
00:00:59.439 --> 00:01:04.000
So of course, this process is not gonna be neat and tidy.
00:01:04.159 --> 00:01:05.680
So let's go back.
00:01:05.920 --> 00:01:11.439
If you haven't listened to any of the episodes in this series, I would recommend it.
00:01:11.599 --> 00:01:19.120
I mean, it really does show a progression over time, and there's gonna be references that are gonna make more sense if you've listened to the past episodes.
00:01:19.359 --> 00:01:30.480
So if you haven't listened to any of them, I would recommend starting with episode 14, that seating disenchantment, and just following each episode after that.
00:01:30.719 --> 00:01:34.640
And my last one in this series was episode 23, Under the Influence.
00:01:34.799 --> 00:01:40.480
So they'll all be linked in the show notes here if you just want to pop down and start somewhere.
00:01:40.640 --> 00:01:45.280
Heads up, I'm gonna mention sex in this episode, nothing scandalous or graphic.
00:01:45.359 --> 00:01:47.120
I'm just letting you know.
00:01:47.599 --> 00:02:05.599
So, after a couple years of living in this small town, this mountain town, Jasper, especially after all of the experiences that I'd had, the assault I talked about in my last episode, really a general shift had definitely occurred.
00:02:05.840 --> 00:02:10.639
All of these experiences, one after another, just compounded on each other.
00:02:10.800 --> 00:02:15.199
I'd really been shown and told again and again how much I didn't matter.
00:02:15.360 --> 00:02:17.520
I felt like I wasn't attractive.
00:02:17.680 --> 00:02:20.800
I wasn't girlfriend material, I was disposable.
00:02:21.439 --> 00:02:30.080
You know, men only wanted to sleep with me, but there was also something really shameful and embarrassing about sleeping with me.
00:02:30.400 --> 00:02:34.800
And I became fodder for lies and jokes and humiliation.
00:02:35.039 --> 00:02:42.560
I came to the conclusion that I just wasn't the kind of girl worth respect or time or kindness.
00:02:43.199 --> 00:02:47.599
And I really started to believe what life was showing me.
00:02:47.680 --> 00:02:52.479
So all of these experiences led me to believe this now about myself.
00:02:53.120 --> 00:03:01.840
Now, I'd had an experience with an older man during my first summer there who actually took me on a few dates.
00:03:02.000 --> 00:03:07.840
And he's like, hey, I want to take you on a tour around town, you're new, and maybe we can go for a beer after.
00:03:08.080 --> 00:03:11.360
And he actually wanted to get to know me as a person.
00:03:11.599 --> 00:03:15.199
And then he offered to have me over another time and he cooked dinner for me.
00:03:15.280 --> 00:03:16.719
And we had a lot in common.
00:03:16.879 --> 00:03:20.960
Like he was really funny, he was thoughtful, he was respectful.
00:03:21.280 --> 00:03:24.560
He invited me to be and hang out with his friends.
00:03:24.879 --> 00:03:31.840
But I remember deep down just knowing that I wasn't into having a relationship with him.
00:03:32.000 --> 00:03:37.439
Like I did not want to take it further, but it was really hard because I really liked him.
00:03:37.759 --> 00:03:39.599
But I was 19.
00:03:39.759 --> 00:03:42.080
And he must have been in his mid-30s at the time.
00:03:42.159 --> 00:03:43.520
And it just wasn't for me.
00:03:43.680 --> 00:03:45.039
Like I knew that.
00:03:45.280 --> 00:03:52.560
But at the same time, you know, it was like I was making a friend, I was making a connection, and I didn't know a lot of people.
00:03:52.719 --> 00:03:55.120
And he was just so nice, you know, and like kind.
00:03:55.199 --> 00:03:56.960
And I was like, oh, I really enjoy being with him.
00:03:57.120 --> 00:04:02.000
I just don't want to be in a relationship with him, or I don't want anything romantically.
00:04:02.319 --> 00:04:03.680
I didn't want to hurt his feelings.
00:04:03.840 --> 00:04:05.039
I didn't want to make it weird.
00:04:05.199 --> 00:04:07.919
I didn't want him to think that I was leading him on.
00:04:08.159 --> 00:04:09.120
It was really hard.
00:04:09.280 --> 00:04:10.639
I don't know, it was hard.
00:04:10.879 --> 00:04:12.080
But we moved through it.
00:04:12.240 --> 00:04:13.199
We moved on.
00:04:13.439 --> 00:04:23.439
I don't know if I was very upfront with him, likely not, seeing as my track record was like null at that point of speaking up or saying anything at all at that point.
00:04:23.839 --> 00:04:26.800
But he was actually mature about it, as far as I remember.
00:04:26.879 --> 00:04:37.439
You know, we could still talk, I could still see him at work, I could see him out around town, and he was still kind to me and didn't bring anything up or make me feel like I was a horrible person.
00:04:38.160 --> 00:04:46.639
But over the course of the next year or so, as I had all of these other experiences, something shifted somewhere along the lines.
00:04:46.800 --> 00:04:59.759
And I'm not sure if it was conscious or not, but it was like I came to the conclusion, after so many degrading and damaging interactions with men my own age, as I've talked about throughout this series.
00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:05.759
Now I felt the only place I could land would be with an older man.
00:05:06.000 --> 00:05:12.639
And it was actually this earlier experience with this older man when I first moved there that was a part of that.
00:05:12.800 --> 00:05:20.480
It was like he had imprinted something on me before this chaotic storm of really losing myself had started to happen.
00:05:20.720 --> 00:05:32.560
Because that was one of the only interactions where it actually felt like I'd been safe, where I'd been in control on some level, where he respected me as a human being above all of the other things.
00:05:32.720 --> 00:05:37.680
He had treated me like an equal, like I was worthy of attention, kindness, interest.
00:05:37.839 --> 00:05:39.680
He told me that he was attracted to me.
00:05:39.759 --> 00:05:44.399
He told me that I mattered and, you know, really gave me respect.
00:05:44.639 --> 00:05:52.639
And I think after that experience, I kind of equated this sense of safety and approval with older men.
00:05:53.040 --> 00:06:00.480
It didn't necessarily mean I wanted to be in relationship with much older men, but I had somehow attached these two things.
00:06:00.639 --> 00:06:07.040
I put together an equation in my brain that said youth equals value.
00:06:07.519 --> 00:06:12.160
Because I didn't seem to have anything that men in my dating pool wanted.
00:06:12.399 --> 00:06:16.079
But with older men, I actually had a valuable currency.
00:06:16.160 --> 00:06:18.160
And that currency was my age.
00:06:18.399 --> 00:06:23.199
They would want me, they would approve of me, they would respect me, they would have me.
00:06:23.519 --> 00:06:26.560
And energy is so funny like that.
00:06:26.879 --> 00:06:29.759
You've likely experienced this in one way or another.
00:06:29.920 --> 00:06:41.600
Once you've made some sort of internal shift and your perception is different about whatever it may be, what shows up for you in your daily life is different.
00:06:41.839 --> 00:06:54.959
And it's not that these older men didn't exist before, as I'm going to talk about, but now it's like I had opened a tiny crack in a window somewhere inside of me.
00:06:55.360 --> 00:07:00.000
And now older men were appearing in my life differently.
00:07:00.800 --> 00:07:05.279
So I'd gotten to know many people working at this bakery, locals and the like.
00:07:05.439 --> 00:07:13.360
It was a normal hangout for retired folk, and it was always a regular stop-off before people went to work or for coffee breaks or lunchtime.
00:07:13.600 --> 00:07:17.360
And there was this RAF guide who would come in every so often.
00:07:17.600 --> 00:07:19.759
We're going to call him Steve.
00:07:20.079 --> 00:07:23.759
He was upbeat, he was talkative, he was friendly.
00:07:24.079 --> 00:07:30.160
He was that guy that knew everyone and would talk to literally anyone.
00:07:30.480 --> 00:07:32.720
And you always knew when he was around.
00:07:32.879 --> 00:07:37.920
So he was loud, he took up space, he had this booming voice.
00:07:38.240 --> 00:07:40.319
He was definitely much older than me.
00:07:40.399 --> 00:07:49.120
I was 20 at the time, but he also seemed just young because he was living this lifestyle of someone in their early 20s.
00:07:49.360 --> 00:07:52.160
And he just had a lot of energy.
00:07:53.040 --> 00:07:58.000
One night I was out with my friends, we were at the bar and we ran into him.
00:07:58.160 --> 00:07:59.839
And he was so excited to see us.
00:07:59.920 --> 00:08:09.759
He'd say, Bay Creek girls, bay creek girls, which was actually a common thing that happened to all of the women who worked there frequently with different people.
00:08:10.000 --> 00:08:12.399
And he ended up dancing with us all night.
00:08:12.560 --> 00:08:18.639
And as we walked home, I remember he was walking with us and he's like, Oh, my place is on the way.
00:08:18.879 --> 00:08:20.639
He was very, very drunk.
00:08:20.879 --> 00:08:23.439
And we just kind of walked with him or making jokes.
00:08:23.600 --> 00:08:27.920
And at some point, we split off to go to our place, but he keeps walking with us.
00:08:28.000 --> 00:08:32.240
And we're like, okay, like we didn't really know what his deal was, but we're like, okay.
00:08:32.480 --> 00:08:36.399
And then we go into our house and then he just follows us into our house.
00:08:36.639 --> 00:08:38.559
And we're like, this is kind of weird.
00:08:38.639 --> 00:08:39.279
What do we do?
00:08:39.440 --> 00:08:39.919
I don't know.
00:08:40.080 --> 00:08:44.399
I remember we both climbed into the same bed and just put the covers over our head and we're like, what's gonna happen?
00:08:44.559 --> 00:08:45.039
What's happening?
00:08:45.200 --> 00:08:45.840
Do we do anything?
00:08:45.919 --> 00:08:46.799
Do we tell him to leave?
00:08:46.960 --> 00:08:47.519
What's happening?
00:08:47.679 --> 00:08:49.759
It was just one of those awkward situations.
00:08:50.080 --> 00:08:54.399
And at some point he got just disoriented, as if he's like, Where am I?
00:08:54.559 --> 00:08:56.000
And then he just left.
00:08:56.159 --> 00:09:01.519
Because I remember thinking, do I like, do I don't want anything to happen with this guy?
00:09:01.600 --> 00:09:03.200
This is this guy that we just see around town.
00:09:03.279 --> 00:09:03.679
He's older.
00:09:03.759 --> 00:09:04.639
Like, that's weird.
00:09:04.960 --> 00:09:05.279
No.
00:09:06.559 --> 00:09:11.440
But then I would see him around more often and see him out again at the pub and the bar.
00:09:11.519 --> 00:09:13.519
And, you know, now he would come sit with us.
00:09:13.759 --> 00:09:16.799
And I remember thinking, oh, he's so friendly.
00:09:16.879 --> 00:09:18.159
He's so outgoing.
00:09:18.320 --> 00:09:20.720
You know, he's being nice to me.
00:09:20.960 --> 00:09:23.039
Uh, he's showing me attention.
00:09:23.360 --> 00:09:25.679
Do I, do I like him?
00:09:26.080 --> 00:09:30.960
And then at some point over the course of time, we did end up sleeping together.
00:09:31.200 --> 00:09:34.159
I had developed this crush on him.
00:09:34.480 --> 00:09:38.879
And after being together the first time, we kind of continued to see each other.
00:09:39.039 --> 00:09:49.279
And it was that awkward phase of anything where you just you don't know where the other person stands, and maybe they don't know where you stand or what you want.
00:09:49.600 --> 00:09:52.559
And so then you just don't talk about it, right?
00:09:52.720 --> 00:09:54.720
It it, I don't know, it was confusing.
00:09:54.960 --> 00:10:05.840
I would see Steve out at a coffee shop or the laundromat or the video store, and we would talk and we would banter just like he did with everyone else, and then that was kind of it.
00:10:06.240 --> 00:10:16.559
Except that randomly he would also show up at my place late at night and we would have sex, or he would invite me over to his place when his roommate was away and we would sleep together.
00:10:16.799 --> 00:10:22.559
There was never any discussion if he liked me or what this was or where it was going.
00:10:22.879 --> 00:10:25.279
It was happening consistently.
00:10:26.000 --> 00:10:34.240
I think really I was already used to getting my hopes up, regardless, and like assuming that a relationship was not possible for me.
00:10:34.879 --> 00:10:40.320
So I just kind of kept going with this situation.
00:10:40.480 --> 00:10:48.480
And I tried to push past the disappointment I felt in him maybe not wanting anything more with me.
00:10:48.720 --> 00:10:54.399
And I was trying to actively move on because this is happening over the course of months, right?
00:10:54.559 --> 00:10:56.480
Where we're doing this again and again.
00:10:56.639 --> 00:10:57.919
And I'm like, oh, I like you.
00:10:58.000 --> 00:10:59.440
And I'm like, oh no, I like you more.
00:10:59.519 --> 00:11:00.879
But no, no, no, okay.
00:11:01.039 --> 00:11:02.159
I can't say anything.
00:11:02.320 --> 00:11:04.320
He obviously doesn't want to do this.
00:11:04.720 --> 00:11:10.879
And when I say I was trying to move on, of course I don't actually mean I moved on.
00:11:10.960 --> 00:11:12.559
You know, that would that would be too healthy.
00:11:12.639 --> 00:11:13.919
That would be too obvious.
00:11:14.159 --> 00:11:20.080
It just meant I continued to sleep with him randomly in the background whenever he came calling.
00:11:20.320 --> 00:11:27.200
Now, the weird thing was that once I'd slept with Steve, it was as if like the word got out or something.
00:11:27.440 --> 00:11:35.919
And I'm not saying that's actually what happened, but it was as if the universe said, oh, okay, oh, you're actually serious about this.
00:11:36.080 --> 00:11:36.559
Hmm.
00:11:36.720 --> 00:11:39.919
This is what you believe you want, or what you think you're worth.
00:11:40.080 --> 00:11:41.120
This is what you want now.
00:11:41.279 --> 00:11:43.519
Well, oh, okay, here you go.
00:11:44.000 --> 00:11:48.159
It was as if all these older men started coming out of the woodwork.
00:11:48.320 --> 00:11:59.679
Men who had previously just been older guys in town, regulars at the bakery, railroad guys or construction workers, just ordinary older men out of my purview romantically.
00:11:59.919 --> 00:12:02.720
Now they were showing up differently.
00:12:02.960 --> 00:12:07.840
These were customers, dad types, people who I connected with through my job.
00:12:08.320 --> 00:12:16.960
These were men that I had gotten to know in a friendly, you know, peer kind of way, often like in an almost paternal capacity.
00:12:17.360 --> 00:12:24.320
These were the men who would talk to me every morning, you know, check in on me, see how I was doing, how my day was going.
00:12:24.480 --> 00:12:26.240
And I got to know them really well.
00:12:26.559 --> 00:12:32.799
And because I was newly living on my own, it did feel that these relationships really mattered to me.
00:12:32.879 --> 00:12:37.679
You know, they were a part of my community, and that was really important, having community.
00:12:37.759 --> 00:12:44.240
And that's also something really special with a small town that I found was oh, there is a community here.
00:12:44.399 --> 00:12:47.200
People know each other and they show up for each other.
00:12:47.600 --> 00:12:56.879
So these men would ask me about my future plans or how my weekend was going, and sometimes they would offer support or advice, those kinds of things.
00:12:56.960 --> 00:12:58.480
So these relationships mattered.
00:12:58.720 --> 00:13:03.360
But now these men, many of them, were starting to shape shift.
00:13:03.519 --> 00:13:10.720
And it was as if the rules had just changed or something, the boundaries they just started to bend and change.
00:13:10.960 --> 00:13:12.639
There was the divorced railroader.
00:13:12.720 --> 00:13:14.240
He had two teenage sons.
00:13:14.559 --> 00:13:17.840
I would serve him coffee multiple times a day.
00:13:18.080 --> 00:13:25.440
And after, I'd say, a year and a half, two years, he invited me and my friend to this large get-together at his house.
00:13:25.600 --> 00:13:26.559
Oh, come to my house.
00:13:26.639 --> 00:13:28.159
I'm having a big thing.
00:13:28.399 --> 00:13:36.159
And then we find out that this large get-together has turned into like, oh no, it's an exclusive party.
00:13:36.399 --> 00:13:41.840
Okay, then the exclusive party becomes an exclusive hot tub party.
00:13:42.000 --> 00:13:48.000
And then the exclusive hot tub party, we are now requested to wear bikinis to.
00:13:48.639 --> 00:13:52.320
So we did not go to said party.
00:13:52.639 --> 00:13:58.639
But this man had just shifted one day, and all of a sudden he was asking us to go to his house and wear bikinis.
00:13:58.720 --> 00:14:00.639
And I was like, no, you're like my dad.
00:14:00.879 --> 00:14:02.399
I thought we were friends.
00:14:02.639 --> 00:14:06.559
There was the coffee supplier I'd been working with for a long time.
00:14:06.879 --> 00:14:10.240
I was out at the bar one evening and he sought me out.
00:14:10.320 --> 00:14:12.159
He's like, hey, can I buy you a drink?
00:14:12.399 --> 00:14:13.440
I said, sure.
00:14:13.600 --> 00:14:18.000
Like I thought we were just friendly through work because that had always been the case.
00:14:18.159 --> 00:14:20.799
He was at least 25 years older than me.
00:14:21.279 --> 00:14:24.559
But he definitely thought something was going to happen.
00:14:24.879 --> 00:14:33.840
And he became so rude and aggressive when I wouldn't allow him to kiss me after I drank my Long Island iced tea.
00:14:34.000 --> 00:14:37.759
And he was double upset when I didn't accept his offer.
00:14:37.919 --> 00:14:40.559
Point blank, he just asked me, come home with me.
00:14:40.720 --> 00:14:42.000
And I said, no.
00:14:42.879 --> 00:14:54.480
But it was apparently him buying me this one drink at 4:30 on a Thursday that entitled him to my body after we'd only talked about coffee for like two years.
00:14:54.799 --> 00:15:04.799
Or there was my friend's literal dad, who I'd gotten to know along with my other friends, when he'd come into the bakery or we'd occasionally, you know, see him at her house.
00:15:05.039 --> 00:15:07.039
He offered to buy me a drink one night out.
00:15:07.200 --> 00:15:13.039
And when I said, no, no, thank you, he was visibly upset and he just put that on me.
00:15:13.200 --> 00:15:17.440
It was as if I was this person who should be giving him this thing.
00:15:17.600 --> 00:15:21.600
He needed this interaction, and there was something at play here.
00:15:21.919 --> 00:15:27.600
Later, I was told that he had known and had mentioned that he knew I was into older guys.
00:15:27.679 --> 00:15:28.799
And I was like, What?
00:15:29.440 --> 00:15:31.120
What is this weird thing?
00:15:31.279 --> 00:15:32.240
How does he know this?
00:15:32.399 --> 00:15:34.639
That's not even necessarily true.
00:15:35.200 --> 00:15:38.720
But yeah, all of these people were showing up in new ways.
00:15:38.879 --> 00:15:50.080
And it was as if after I had the shift in mentality around my youth being my value, and continuing, of course, to randomly sleep with Steve, things just changed in this weird way.
00:15:50.320 --> 00:15:52.799
And I didn't necessarily want this to happen.
00:15:53.039 --> 00:15:55.279
It was part conscious, part unconscious.
00:15:55.440 --> 00:16:09.519
I didn't particularly like having these older men suddenly see me as available or openly shifting from a safe platonic friend to a potential sexual conquest.
00:16:09.679 --> 00:16:11.200
That's not what I wanted.
00:16:11.279 --> 00:16:13.279
It didn't necessarily feel good.
00:16:13.440 --> 00:16:16.159
And it made things really confusing for me.
00:16:16.480 --> 00:16:19.360
I just didn't know where the boundaries were.
00:16:19.600 --> 00:16:21.679
And now I don't know.
00:16:21.759 --> 00:16:23.840
I started to almost like not trust people.
00:16:24.000 --> 00:16:26.240
I didn't trust what their intentions were.
00:16:26.559 --> 00:16:33.919
I felt like these boundaries were so muddied that I didn't know if I could just be nice to someone, right?
00:16:34.000 --> 00:16:35.360
Are they going to misconstrue that?
00:16:35.519 --> 00:16:36.879
Is it going to come across the wrong way?
00:16:36.960 --> 00:16:38.480
And then are they going to be upset with me?
00:16:38.559 --> 00:16:39.840
And then they're not going to talk to me.
00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:42.960
Like it became really muddled.
00:16:43.519 --> 00:16:54.399
But in a messed up way, I had also now confirmed that older men did see value in me when other more age-appropriate men didn't.
00:16:54.720 --> 00:17:00.639
So it didn't matter that perhaps I felt like, ugh, like a bit of a yuck factor in there.
00:17:01.039 --> 00:17:12.559
Or maybe that I didn't always find them attractive, specifically for me in terms of like age at that time, or even that maybe I judged them for liking me that way.
00:17:12.720 --> 00:17:14.480
Like it was all very effed up.
00:17:15.359 --> 00:17:19.039
But I had gone beyond any boundary I may have had.
00:17:19.119 --> 00:17:22.640
And now it was almost like it's all fair game.
00:17:23.200 --> 00:17:30.319
So as I am still seeing Steve in the background, all these other things are happening on a day-to-day basis, right?
00:17:30.400 --> 00:17:36.079
And one of those particular men that I fully remember, he was a regular tradesman.
00:17:36.240 --> 00:17:38.400
He would come into the bakery frequently.
00:17:38.640 --> 00:17:39.920
He was really friendly.
00:17:40.079 --> 00:17:43.440
He was very soft-spoken, like he barely said anything.
00:17:43.759 --> 00:17:45.920
He wouldn't even make eye contact sometimes.
00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:47.200
He was very shy.
00:17:47.440 --> 00:17:50.799
But there was also something very masculine about him.
00:17:50.960 --> 00:17:53.519
Like he was super scorched from the sun.
00:17:53.680 --> 00:17:55.279
He would wear overalls.
00:17:55.759 --> 00:18:00.799
His clothes were always covered in like sawdust or paint or grease.
00:18:01.279 --> 00:18:03.759
And I can't tell you why this did it for me.
00:18:04.000 --> 00:18:05.119
It still does.
00:18:05.839 --> 00:18:10.160
He would wear one earring, just like a tiny little hoop earring.
00:18:10.240 --> 00:18:13.039
And then he would put a pencil behind his ear.
00:18:13.839 --> 00:18:17.920
Oh, I just I called him Carpenter Man.
00:18:18.480 --> 00:18:26.160
One night at the pub, I remember someone saying, Do you ever, you know, think that you have daddy issues?
00:18:26.559 --> 00:18:29.759
And then this guy, he points over, and there's Carpenter Man.
00:18:29.839 --> 00:18:35.599
He's at the bar, and he says, Cause if you do, maybe you should talk to my friend here.
00:18:35.839 --> 00:18:40.079
But just he said, the caveat is like, do not break his heart.
00:18:40.319 --> 00:18:40.960
So I did.
00:18:41.039 --> 00:18:45.920
I went over and I sat with him and I had a very long conversation about Jamaican rum.
00:18:46.079 --> 00:18:50.559
He was extremely drunk, but I got to know him a little bit better.
00:18:50.880 --> 00:18:52.480
I don't really know how I felt.
00:18:52.559 --> 00:18:54.480
It was more just like, oh, this is nice.
00:18:54.640 --> 00:18:57.839
This is fun, you know, didn't think too much of it.
00:18:58.079 --> 00:19:10.559
The next day he came into the bakery, and as he's going to pay, he takes the pencil from behind his ear and he put it behind mine.
00:19:11.599 --> 00:19:13.839
And I almost died.
00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:21.039
It was like the most exciting and romantic moment I wanted to explode.
00:19:21.200 --> 00:19:21.599
I don't know.
00:19:21.680 --> 00:19:22.960
It was just like all these things at once.
00:19:23.039 --> 00:19:26.000
I was like, wow, that is so attractive.
00:19:26.160 --> 00:19:28.079
That is so romantic.
00:19:28.640 --> 00:19:31.359
And here's the thing: like, I was attracted to him.
00:19:31.599 --> 00:19:35.039
And I also felt that he was just a really good person.
00:19:35.440 --> 00:19:44.160
And he gave me those same feelings as the older guy that I'd been out with when I'd first arrived in town, like that safe feeling.
00:19:44.480 --> 00:19:49.359
But I did also feel like he was definitely too old for me.
00:19:49.519 --> 00:19:54.559
And I also felt uncomfortable imagining like actually doing anything with him.
00:19:55.039 --> 00:19:57.599
And I think that's, you know, what you call instinct.
00:19:57.759 --> 00:19:58.880
That's what you call intuition.
00:19:59.039 --> 00:19:59.759
Like I already knew.
00:19:59.839 --> 00:20:02.400
I was like, oh, I don't want to be in a relationship with this person.
00:20:02.480 --> 00:20:03.759
This isn't for me.
00:20:04.400 --> 00:20:12.960
But there was this part of me that had been rejected, that had been ripped apart, that had been abused and put down like again and again.
00:20:13.279 --> 00:20:18.400
And that part of me like needed to know that I was valuable and worthwhile.
00:20:18.720 --> 00:20:23.279
That very like childlike part of me who just wanted to feel accepted, like cared for.
00:20:23.440 --> 00:20:24.960
I wanted to be wanted by someone.
00:20:25.039 --> 00:20:30.160
And so I let something happen with Carpenter Man.
00:20:30.319 --> 00:20:34.160
I saw him out again one night after we had many drinks.
00:20:34.319 --> 00:20:35.920
We stumbled together through town.
00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:37.440
We ran across a schoolyard.
00:20:37.519 --> 00:20:39.519
We laid in a field and looked at the stars.
00:20:39.759 --> 00:20:41.119
Like it was all super nice.
00:20:41.279 --> 00:20:43.279
And it was exciting.
00:20:43.519 --> 00:20:48.079
But I remember being like very consciously, like, do I want to do this?
00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:50.480
Like, uh, this is a good person.
00:20:50.960 --> 00:20:52.160
What am I doing?
00:20:52.400 --> 00:21:13.680
I think it's even being at that age when you want experiences and you're craving to live life, and you almost need to bump up against things to figure out sometimes how you feel or what you want or what that would be like, which is kind of it's obviously very exciting, but it's confusing and people can get hurt along the way.
00:21:14.240 --> 00:21:16.799
And in a way, like I already knew, right?
00:21:16.960 --> 00:21:28.640
I already knew, like, nah, I'm not gonna want to do this again or be with this person seriously, but can I then hang out with him in this capacity and no one will get hurt?
00:21:28.720 --> 00:21:30.960
Like I already knew it was not a good idea.
00:21:31.200 --> 00:21:36.160
But there we are, lying in the field, looking at the stars, and he's like, oh, let's go to my place.
00:21:36.319 --> 00:21:37.599
So I follow him.
00:21:37.759 --> 00:21:42.799
He takes me up a fire escape of an old house, and then we're making out on this fire escape.
00:21:42.880 --> 00:21:50.079
And I'm like, okay, like we're in the moonlight, we're on the railing, and we're out in the open, and it was just really exciting.
00:21:50.240 --> 00:21:51.119
And it was different.
00:21:51.279 --> 00:21:54.240
And I just tried to be in the moment.
00:21:54.960 --> 00:21:56.880
We eventually make it into his house.
00:21:57.039 --> 00:21:59.759
He lived in this really tiny attic assembly.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:02.880
Essentially, with a triangle ceiling.
00:22:03.279 --> 00:22:09.279
And he tells me, This is the bed that I built for myself out of like the old oak tree.
00:22:09.359 --> 00:22:10.559
I'm like, oh, wow.
00:22:10.720 --> 00:22:12.880
And then he introduces me to his dog.
00:22:13.119 --> 00:22:15.200
It's like this old golden retriever.
00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:17.119
He's like, this is yellow dog.
00:22:17.440 --> 00:22:21.599
Like, oh, like straight out of like old yellow from the 1950s.
00:22:21.920 --> 00:22:27.680
Like everything about him was like good and solid and real and honest.
00:22:28.480 --> 00:22:30.799
We're making out, we're sitting on some chair.
00:22:30.880 --> 00:22:32.079
I'm sitting on top of him.
00:22:32.160 --> 00:22:35.119
And at some point, I just like pull off his hat.
00:22:36.079 --> 00:22:41.519
And that's when I realized he was completely bald under there.
00:22:41.920 --> 00:22:48.400
He had the ring of hair at the bottom, but the rest of his head was just shiny and smooth and bald.
00:22:48.960 --> 00:22:50.880
And look, no judgment.
00:22:50.960 --> 00:22:52.960
Like we don't have control over these things, right?
00:22:53.039 --> 00:22:55.759
And I don't find baldness unattractive at all.
00:22:56.000 --> 00:23:03.200
It's just that it was really unexpected because I'd never seen him without a hat before and I hadn't thought about that.
00:23:03.359 --> 00:23:08.240
And then all of a sudden, this put like a marker in the sand around our age difference.
00:23:08.400 --> 00:23:10.160
I was like, oh, okay.
00:23:10.319 --> 00:23:13.680
Like you are significantly older than I am.
00:23:13.920 --> 00:23:14.880
We had sex.
00:23:15.599 --> 00:23:25.759
And after he goes to use the bathroom, which is unfortunately, you know, in his tiny attic room right across from the bed.
00:23:26.079 --> 00:23:31.519
And unfortunately has a curtain for a door, just for the most obvious reasons.
00:23:31.680 --> 00:23:33.119
Like it was just really embarrassing.
00:23:33.279 --> 00:23:34.480
And look, we're all human.
00:23:34.640 --> 00:23:40.799
It doesn't have to be embarrassing to use the bathroom, but oh boy, like he's just in there and I'm hearing everything.
00:23:41.039 --> 00:23:50.160
And I was like still very much at that age where my comfortability with things like that, like I didn't know how to deal with a situation like that.
00:23:50.240 --> 00:23:51.920
And I just like couldn't talk about it.
00:23:52.000 --> 00:23:53.440
I couldn't make light of it.
00:23:53.599 --> 00:23:56.960
I grew up in a home where nothing like that existed.
00:23:57.039 --> 00:23:58.960
Oh, no one uses the bathroom.
00:23:59.200 --> 00:24:00.880
No one passes gas, right?
00:24:01.039 --> 00:24:04.000
So I was like, oh my gosh, I'm hearing it and I feel so embarrassed.
00:24:04.079 --> 00:24:05.200
I don't know what to do.
00:24:05.440 --> 00:24:09.359
And there was one other night where he just showed up at my place.
00:24:09.599 --> 00:24:12.400
Now, whenever I say this, I'm like, I think I've said this a lot.
00:24:12.640 --> 00:24:14.480
I keep wondering how all of that happened.
00:24:14.640 --> 00:24:16.960
How are people just always showing up at my place?
00:24:17.200 --> 00:24:18.640
But that really did happen.
00:24:18.720 --> 00:24:22.720
I think it was a small town thing and also a not having a cell phone thing.
00:24:23.039 --> 00:24:24.160
Doesn't matter.
00:24:24.400 --> 00:24:26.000
He shows up at my place.
00:24:26.240 --> 00:24:28.960
He smells like gasoline and sawdust.
00:24:29.119 --> 00:24:31.599
He barely talks, and we do stuff.
00:24:31.680 --> 00:24:32.880
He wakes up early in the morning.
00:24:32.960 --> 00:24:37.680
He's like, I need to go take care of yellow dog and I need to get back to building houses.
00:24:37.839 --> 00:24:41.279
You know, he's very stoic and has this work to do.
00:24:41.839 --> 00:24:46.160
And my roommate comes in shortly after and she's like, Hey, can you come out and see this?
00:24:46.319 --> 00:24:47.359
Like, what is this?
00:24:47.599 --> 00:25:03.200
I go out to the hallway with her, and she points at the walls, and I'm like, oh, there were like hand prints and greasy smudge marks all along the walls, leading all the way from my room down the hallway, up to the front door.
00:25:03.599 --> 00:25:11.359
He was literally coated in grease and hard work, and he left his mark on our apartment, and he lived up to his name.
00:25:11.599 --> 00:25:13.920
He was the carpenter man.
00:25:14.480 --> 00:25:18.799
Now, I don't want this to come across as judgmental because it's really not meant to be.
00:25:19.039 --> 00:25:22.559
I just felt like we were from two entirely different worlds.
00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:25.119
We had these stark differences, right?
00:25:25.359 --> 00:25:30.160
His age, his lifestyle, his background, how he communicated.
00:25:30.480 --> 00:25:33.680
He had this life, he had this work that he did.
00:25:33.920 --> 00:25:36.480
Everything was kind of set up for him.
00:25:37.039 --> 00:25:39.920
And I just was like, oh no.
00:25:40.160 --> 00:25:43.920
All those differences is what made it so exciting and like interesting and charged, right?
00:25:44.000 --> 00:25:44.960
Like we didn't even talk.
00:25:45.039 --> 00:25:50.160
It was just like, you are a man covered in Greece, and I'm kind of into this.
00:25:50.720 --> 00:25:57.599
But I already knew the first time we'd been introduced that I wasn't prepared to be like serious about anyone.
00:25:57.680 --> 00:26:02.880
But I also felt kind of guilty and gross for, you know, hanging out with him in that way.
00:26:03.119 --> 00:26:08.400
Even if it was just to experiment and like I enjoyed his company and all of that, I was like, oh, is this like unfair?
00:26:08.559 --> 00:26:11.119
And I did not know how to voice that.
00:26:11.440 --> 00:26:14.480
And honestly, age was a thing.
00:26:14.720 --> 00:26:17.599
I didn't actually want to date older men.
00:26:17.759 --> 00:26:28.799
I knew it wasn't going to work for me, even when they were kind, good, solid, interesting people at that age, what, 19, 20, 21, like age did matter.
00:26:29.119 --> 00:26:34.000
And a guy being, you know, 15 plus years older than me did make a difference.
00:26:34.240 --> 00:26:36.960
It's so obvious to see this in hindsight.
00:26:37.119 --> 00:26:41.920
But at the time, my subconscious fears just kept pushing this narrative.
00:26:42.240 --> 00:26:43.440
This is your future.
00:26:43.599 --> 00:26:44.960
This is the only way.
00:26:45.279 --> 00:26:46.960
You need to make this concession.
00:26:47.119 --> 00:26:48.079
You're not good enough.
00:26:48.240 --> 00:26:49.200
Take what you can get.
00:26:49.359 --> 00:26:50.400
No one else will love you.
00:26:50.559 --> 00:26:52.480
No one else finds you attractive.
00:26:52.799 --> 00:26:58.160
So I overrode those feelings of already knowing, oh no, this isn't for me.
00:26:58.319 --> 00:26:59.599
This is going to get messy.
00:26:59.680 --> 00:27:00.799
It's going to get tangled.
00:27:00.960 --> 00:27:03.440
I still like wanted to see if it would work, right?
00:27:03.519 --> 00:27:11.759
I'm like, no, but Sarah, you have to do this because like you no one else is ever going to want to be with you and you're going to be alone forever, whatever those things are.
00:27:12.240 --> 00:27:19.519
And in keeping with my track record of the time, I secretly hoped that this experience would kind of fade into the background.
00:27:19.599 --> 00:27:26.880
And I'm like, oh, we can keep those experiences on a shelf for what they were, and we'll never have to, you know, deal with it.
00:27:27.200 --> 00:27:32.400
But then I would see his red truck, you know, driving down the main strip of town.
00:27:32.480 --> 00:27:34.400
And I'd see yellow dog in the back.
00:27:34.480 --> 00:27:37.519
And I'd know, I'm like, oh, I'd like actually start to panic.
00:27:37.599 --> 00:27:38.240
I would feel sick.
00:27:38.319 --> 00:27:40.720
I'm like, oh no, like he's gonna slow down.
00:27:40.880 --> 00:27:42.160
He's gonna say hi.
00:27:42.720 --> 00:27:44.400
And I did not want to be mean.
00:27:44.559 --> 00:27:50.000
I didn't also want to like lead him on to think that I wanted more, even though I'm like, I really like you.
00:27:50.240 --> 00:27:52.000
Obviously, it just like felt hard, right?
00:27:52.079 --> 00:27:54.240
It felt hard, it felt confusing.
00:27:54.559 --> 00:27:57.440
And as far as I remember, I never said anything.
00:27:57.680 --> 00:27:59.440
I never was honest.
00:27:59.599 --> 00:28:00.799
I never expressed myself.
00:28:00.880 --> 00:28:06.319
I just probably pretended like it didn't happen, which is not helpful for anyone.
00:28:06.880 --> 00:28:09.599
But yeah, in the background, Steve was still around.
00:28:09.759 --> 00:28:11.279
We were still sleeping together.
00:28:11.440 --> 00:28:13.920
He was still not acknowledging that it was anything.
00:28:14.079 --> 00:28:18.319
And I'm pretty sure I was making it known in certain ways that I wanted more.
00:28:18.480 --> 00:28:20.319
I was trying to turn it into more.
00:28:21.039 --> 00:28:30.880
But everything he was showing me, you know, in the way that we were communicating or that we'd be meeting on his bequest at night, was saying, like, this isn't for you, Sarah.
00:28:30.960 --> 00:28:32.400
Like, this isn't gonna work.
00:28:32.880 --> 00:28:35.759
But I just didn't think I was worth anything better.
00:28:35.920 --> 00:28:36.559
I really didn't.
00:28:36.640 --> 00:28:41.759
And I didn't think someone else was going to come along, or the fact that I actually like did also like him.
00:28:41.839 --> 00:28:45.200
I was like, oh, okay, well, these two things are combined.
00:28:45.359 --> 00:28:47.599
Like, this is all I've got.
00:28:47.920 --> 00:28:53.279
And I also want to say, I don't actually have any judgment about age gap relationships.
00:28:53.359 --> 00:28:56.079
And I think for many people, it likely could work.
00:28:56.240 --> 00:28:57.119
Do you know what I mean?
00:28:57.359 --> 00:29:01.599
For me at the time, the experiences I did have, they just were not working.
00:29:01.680 --> 00:29:03.839
And I already felt that they weren't for me.
00:29:04.000 --> 00:29:08.960
It's not an objective, you know, judgment on everyone because I don't think that's the case.
00:29:09.039 --> 00:29:15.039
And I think it can work out, but I had feelings already, and yet I kind of overrode those feelings at the time.
00:29:15.359 --> 00:29:22.720
So we'll pick up in the next episode about Steve and the slow train wreck that ensues after that.
00:29:22.960 --> 00:29:23.920
Okay, thanks so much.
00:29:24.079 --> 00:29:24.799
Watch you again.
00:29:24.960 --> 00:29:25.359
Bye.
