Full Transcript for Cognitive Reframing in Anxiety Disorders (Episode 176)

00:03:48.240 --> 00:03:54.000 I would probably say, you know, can I reframe that as like I'm really uncomfortable right now, and and that makes me scared. 00:03:54.240 --> 00:03:56.479 And that would be my reframe, right? 00:03:56.800 --> 00:04:04.400 Yeah, one of my favorites is yeah, some spirals go up, or spiral like, um, yeah, now you can learn. 00:04:04.479 --> 00:04:07.599 Here's an opportunity to teach yourself that you can cope with spirals. 00:04:08.400 --> 00:04:15.039 Yeah, because when you think, oh, uh lots of people with anxiety think, oh, I'm really triggered and it gets to the point where I'll lose control. 00:04:15.599 --> 00:04:20.639 No, you can learn that even while I'm spiraling, I can cope, I can tolerate it. 00:04:20.800 --> 00:04:29.439 So the word spiral suggests to your brain, oh, I'm not in control, but you're not, you know, people often pay for the waltzers, you know, to do that. 00:04:30.079 --> 00:04:32.480 Do you have waltzers in the US or is it a UK thing? 00:04:32.720 --> 00:04:33.839 Oh, it doesn't sound familiar. 00:04:33.920 --> 00:04:35.519 Is that the name of a retail establishment? 00:04:35.920 --> 00:04:50.639 Fairground, it's a fairground ride where you sit in a giant cup and they spin you around, then that spins around, and there's really loud music, and it has the you know, health and safety record of a roller coaster built out of melting chocolate. 00:04:51.040 --> 00:04:53.120 Um, but but yeah, no, it's great. 00:04:53.279 --> 00:04:55.360 Uh yeah, you can learn to spiral. 00:04:55.519 --> 00:04:57.040 What a great way to reframe it. 00:04:57.120 --> 00:04:58.000 What would you say? 00:04:58.319 --> 00:05:07.680 Um, yeah, I would think in that situation, the spiral is, you know, the reframe might be, well, I I noticed that I want to do things that might fuel this spiral. 00:05:07.920 --> 00:05:12.079 You know, can you notice that you want to do a bunch of stuff that thrashes against the experience? 00:05:12.240 --> 00:05:16.639 Like, is it are you spiraling or are you just really afraid and trying to feel better? 00:05:17.199 --> 00:05:17.600 Yeah. 00:05:18.000 --> 00:05:18.959 Yeah, it's a spiral. 00:05:19.040 --> 00:05:20.959 What about a common phrase that you hear? 00:05:21.199 --> 00:05:23.519 Um, well, I'm gonna go right to the number one. 00:05:23.600 --> 00:05:26.319 Like, we would normally do like the top 40 and end with number one. 00:05:26.399 --> 00:05:29.040 I think the number one, because it's in our our studio audience, is what if? 00:05:29.199 --> 00:05:30.480 What if and insert whatever? 00:05:30.560 --> 00:05:32.000 I don't care what it is, what if? 00:05:32.399 --> 00:05:35.199 And how might you frame a what if thought? 00:05:35.759 --> 00:05:36.240 Yeah. 00:05:36.480 --> 00:05:39.680 And it's what a what if a good thing happens or what if a bad thing happens? 00:05:39.920 --> 00:05:40.560 What if anything? 00:05:40.720 --> 00:05:42.240 What if anything happens, really? 00:05:42.720

--> 00:05:45.519 Like, what if it's you know, what if I uh what if I actually go insane? 00:05:45.600 --> 00:05:47.279 What if this actually makes me insane? 00:05:48.240 --> 00:05:50.879 Yeah, what okay, so so what if this makes me insane? 00:05:51.120 --> 00:06:03.680 Because we don't want to conflate it with there was this it's really annoying being a therapist on um social media because there are people who aren't therapists on social media that pretend they are, like Mel Robbins. 00:06:03.759 --> 00:06:13.199 And there was a really uh well-watched video called The Five Words to Defeat Anxiety, and she says, What if it all works out? 00:06:13.680 --> 00:06:15.279 I'm like, wow, oh my god. 00:06:15.439 --> 00:06:29.759 You know, I've got to 37 years old, and I never really thought my rational cognitive brain just needed Mel Robbins to tell me what if it all works out alongside a protein supplement she's probably selling. 00:06:29.920 --> 00:06:30.720 Uh, there we go. 00:06:30.879 --> 00:06:31.759 Thank you, Mel. 00:06:31.920 --> 00:06:33.439 Uh, what if it all works out? 00:06:33.680 --> 00:06:37.600 But to the credit, it is an example of a cognitive reframe. 00:06:38.000 --> 00:06:42.319 So, in in this community, it's like, okay, what if the bad thing happens? 00:06:42.399 --> 00:06:43.439 What if I have a heart attack? 00:06:43.519 --> 00:06:43.920 Whatever. 00:06:44.160 --> 00:06:47.680 But to reframe that, it's what if it doesn't happen? 00:06:48.000 --> 00:06:51.199 And here's an opportunity for me to practice uncertainty. 00:06:51.439 --> 00:06:55.519 I feel uncertain right now, and I've probably had this thought a thousand times before. 00:06:56.639 --> 00:06:58.160 The likelihood is it's not gonna happen. 00:06:58.240 --> 00:07:00.879 So I'm gonna try and see how well I deal with uncertainty. 00:07:01.040 --> 00:07:06.639 Yeah, you can reframe the situation to what the actual goal is is desensitizing. 00:07:07.120 --> 00:07:16.879 Or we can subscribe to the narrative of I've completely over anxiety when I have no symptoms, no scary thoughts, no no, it's about you practicing when you are uncertain. 00:07:17.120 --> 00:07:17.439 Yeah. 00:07:17.680 --> 00:07:19.920 My my what if I have one what if reframe. 00:07:20.000 --> 00:07:22.000 I'm a one-trick prony when it comes to what if. 00:07:22.399 --> 00:07:25.759 Because I I'm not a fan of the whole like, well, what if a good thing happens? 00:07:25.839 --> 00:07:27.680 Well, what if, you know, or what if I crash and burn? 00:07:27.839 --> 00:07:29.120 Oh, but dear, what if you fly? 00:07:29.279 --> 00:07:32.240 Like you're an anxious mind isn't interested in the good part. 00:07:32.399 --> 00:07:37.759 So when somebody says to me, what if, I I offer the reframe, well, just tell me what you're afraid of. 00:07:37.920 --> 00:07:39.839 Like, what if uh what if I have a psychotic break? 00:07:40.000 --> 00:07:41.519 Okay, well, just well, tell me what you're afraid of. 00:07:41.600 --> 00:07:42.879 Well, I'm afraid to have a psychotic break. 00:07:43.040 --> 00:07:43.920 Okay, so that's it. 00:07:44.000 --> 00:07:44.480 Just say that. 00:07:44.639 --> 00:07:46.879 You don't have to ask what if, because then you'll try to answer it. 00:07:47.120 --> 00:07:50.160 So I try to take the what if question and reframe it as a statement. 00:07:50.319 --> 00:07:51.279 I fear that. 00:07:51.600 --> 00:08:00.480 And then from there we can move on to like, oh, we're not gonna try to answer the question because you you what if this happens is an attempt to find an answer that says it won't happen. 00:08:00.639 --> 00:08:02.879 But your brain has already decided it's gonna happen, by the way. 00:08:02.959 --> 00:08:04.160 It's already decided too late. 00:08:04.240 --> 00:08:05.680 It's the elephant and the rider thing, right? 00:08:05.759 --> 00:08:06.720 From the that book. 00:08:06.879 --> 00:08:07.120 Yeah. 00:08:07.519 --> 00:08:11.120 And I think so I reframe what if to just tell me what it is you're afraid of. 00:08:11.199 --> 00:08:16.480 Oh, I'm afraid of forgetting my kids, or I'm afraid that I accidentally cheated on my partner, or I'm afraid of self-harm. 00:08:16.639 --> 00:08:18.800 Okay, and and now what does that make you want to do? 00:08:18.879 --> 00:08:20.879 Oh, it makes me want to like be sure that it won't happen. 00:08:21.040 --> 00:08:22.319 Okay, now we're getting somewhere. 00:08:22.399 --> 00:08:24.079 So yeah, yeah, it's the after. 00:08:24.160 --> 00:08:26.000 Yeah, just frame it as what I'm a skate of. 00:08:26.079 --> 00:08:26.879 What I'm afraid of. 00:08:26.959 --> 00:08:27.920 Listen, a skate of. 00:08:28.000 --> 00:08:28.879 I just made a word. 00:08:29.439 --> 00:08:32.399 Someone in the audience said one of my favorite reframes came from Drew. 00:08:32.480 --> 00:08:34.000 Oh no to oh well. 00:08:34.399 --> 00:08:35.279 Yeah, yeah. 00:08:36.320 --> 00:08:37.200 Yeah, that's true. 00:08:37.360 --> 00:08:38.799 Oh, oh well, oh well. 00:08:40.159 --> 00:08:41.200 Oh dang. 00:08:41.679 --> 00:08:42.799 Very wholesome. 00:08:43.840 --> 00:08:44.879 Oh, darn it. 00:08:45.200 --> 00:08:52.080 Uh, you know, another one that we tend to use around here, it's the you know, oh well to oh, yeah, it's oh god to oh well. 00:08:52.159 --> 00:08:52.639 That is true. 00:08:52.799 --> 00:08:56.799 But uh one thing that we've been starting to use around here a little bit more in the community is I'm doing it again. 00:08:56.960 --> 00:09:06.080 So when people say I've been resensitized, I might offer, I've been resensitized, or I'm in a setback, or I'm back to square one, I offer, or are you just doing it again? 00:09:06.240 --> 00:09:07.840 And I'm like, what do you mean I'm doing it again? 00:09:07.919 --> 00:09:08.799 Am I are you blaming me? 00:09:08.879 --> 00:09:09.279 Are you victim? 00:09:09.600 --> 00:09:10.159 No, no, no, no. 00:09:10.240 --> 00:09:14.399 What I mean by that is what does it mean to be resensitized

or back to square one or in a setback? 00:09:14.480 --> 00:09:21.759 It means you just decided that the old way, the fighting, the thrashing, the running, the avoiding, the compulsing was was the right way again because you got scared enough to choose that. 00:09:22.000 --> 00:09:23.279 Oh, yeah, I'm doing it again. 00:09:23.519 --> 00:09:24.240 Okay, cool. 00:09:24.720 --> 00:09:26.159 So what do we do now? 00:09:27.200 --> 00:09:28.879 Yeah, here's one from the community. 00:09:28.960 --> 00:09:33.679 What if I lose progress if I get really scared for an extended period of time? 00:09:33.840 --> 00:09:35.440 Oh, that's a common one. 00:09:35.600 --> 00:09:36.960 What if I lose progress? 00:09:37.120 --> 00:09:38.159 What is progress? 00:09:38.399 --> 00:09:39.919 Reframe what progress is. 00:09:40.159 --> 00:09:40.559 That's it. 00:09:40.720 --> 00:09:47.600 Yeah, if you're judging progress on going a long time without being anxious, you're not using the correct mark scheme. 00:09:47.840 --> 00:09:54.799 The reframe for that is it's not what if I lose progress and get really scared for an extended period of time. 00:09:54.879 --> 00:09:59.360 It's how how good am I at bouncing back when I get scared? 00:09:59.600 --> 00:10:00.080 Yeah, exactly. 00:10:00.159 --> 00:10:00.960 That's the reframe there. 00:10:01.200 --> 00:10:02.559 The reframe is a good reframe. 00:10:03.039 --> 00:10:04.240 You can have that one for free. 00:10:04.399 --> 00:10:04.559 Absolutely. 00:10:04.799 --> 00:10:05.279 There we go. 00:10:05.519 --> 00:10:07.519 I hope you guys have your notepads and you're taking notes. 00:10:07.600 --> 00:10:08.799 Or a number two pencil. 00:10:08.879 --> 00:10:10.879 Does anybody ever do we need number two pencils anymore? 00:10:11.039 --> 00:10:11.679 It used to be a thing. 00:10:11.759 --> 00:10:12.080 What's that? 00:10:12.159 --> 00:10:15.279 Yeah, you take a test, you fill in the bubbles, and then that's how they score the test. 00:10:15.919 --> 00:10:17.279 No, I don't remember that. 00:10:17.440 --> 00:10:18.159 Wow, okay. 00:10:18.320 --> 00:10:19.360 It's really difficult. 00:10:19.519 --> 00:10:22.320 Um, yeah, so anyway, uh, yeah, that that's a good one. 00:10:22.399 --> 00:10:22.720 I like it. 00:10:22.879 --> 00:10:32.080 Like it uh reframe how you the reframe on what if I but what if it comes back, or what if I have a setback, or what if I lose all my progress is well, yeah, tell me, tell me what that means. 00:10:32.159 --> 00:10:33.120 What does progress mean? 00:10:33.440 --> 00:10:34.879 So uh I love that. 00:10:35.039 --> 00:10:36.080 Here's one of my favorite ones. 00:10:36.399 --> 00:10:41.840 Favorite uh what if in the chat is what if I wake up tomorrow and I look like Henry Cavill? 00:10:43.039 --> 00:10:45.360 Thoughts my anxious mind never has. 00:10:47.279 --> 00:10:51.840 Hey, if it happens, then you know I'm gonna go for some casting calls or something, but definitely. 00:10:51.919 --> 00:10:53.279 But yeah, I

get it. 00:10:53.519 --> 00:10:59.679 Yeah, yeah, this is one of those, and it's always reframe what it is, but also it's not just about the anxiety. 00:11:00.159 --> 00:11:03.200 Think about the life isn't all about anxiety disorder. 00:11:03.279 --> 00:11:04.879 So here's a challenge for you, Drew. 00:11:05.039 --> 00:11:06.799 What if I'm a burden to my family? 00:11:06.960 --> 00:11:08.320 How could you reframe that? 00:11:08.559 --> 00:11:13.440 Well, I would what if my anxiety feels make me what if my anxiety means I'm a burden to my family? 00:11:13.679 --> 00:11:22.240 Yeah, I think I would offer a reframe, it depends on what the person has been going through and how what I know about them, but one of them might be, well, you know, let's let's let's look at this from a different angle. 00:11:22.399 --> 00:11:24.720 What would make what would make you see yourself as a burden? 00:11:24.799 --> 00:11:26.559 Why would you draw that conclusion about yourself? 00:11:26.720 --> 00:11:30.159 Because otherwise the reframe is no, no, I am a burden if I'm anxious and that's it. 00:11:30.240 --> 00:11:31.440 It's just a statement of fact. 00:11:31.600 --> 00:11:33.759 So the reframe for me is something makes you feel that way. 00:11:33.840 --> 00:11:34.240 What is it? 00:11:34.320 --> 00:11:35.120 That's one yeah. 00:11:35.279 --> 00:11:37.840 Me being anxious is burdening my family. 00:11:37.919 --> 00:11:43.200 And my reframe is I'm currently anxious and I'm trying to get better for my family. 00:11:43.840 --> 00:11:44.320 Same thing. 00:11:44.480 --> 00:11:44.720 Love it. 00:11:45.200 --> 00:11:45.840 Both truth. 00:11:45.919 --> 00:11:46.159 Sure. 00:11:46.320 --> 00:11:47.200 It's just a reframe. 00:11:47.279 --> 00:11:49.679 Yeah, you're coming at it from a slightly different angle. 00:11:49.919 --> 00:11:53.279 It's like taking a selfie, but from the belly button height. 00:11:53.440 --> 00:11:54.639 No one likes those pictures. 00:11:55.039 --> 00:12:01.279 So you just move the selfie up in the perfect light, it's hiding your chin and neck, and suddenly you look like Henry Cavill. 00:12:01.600 --> 00:12:07.759 It's the same thing, it's not changing your face, it's not changing what's happening, it's just offering a different perspective. 00:12:07.840 --> 00:12:10.639 But semantics are so powerful, yeah. 00:12:11.039 --> 00:12:15.200 You know, yeah, I am struggling at the moment, but I'm trying. 00:12:15.279 --> 00:12:16.879 It's also truth. 00:12:17.120 --> 00:12:19.759 Or you could go with the Craig the Critic truth. 00:12:20.000 --> 00:12:31.679 That's his opinion of what's happening, but then the cognitive reframe is how can I take this really pervasive um barrier to being nice to myself? 00:12:31.840 --> 00:12:35.600 We bang on about compassion, and people are like, How do I be compassionate? 00:12:36.159 --> 00:12:38.159 This is a good way to do it. 00:12:38.320 --> 00:12:41.440 Yeah, find all those critic things and just do a subtle reframe. 00:12:41.600 --> 00:12:43.039 Write them down if you have to. 00:12:43.200 --> 00:12:46.320 Yeah, you know, like, oh, I'm doing this, I'm useless. 00:12:46.480 --> 00:12:47.919 No, I'm trying. 00:12:48.240 --> 00:12:49.039 Same thing. 00:12:49.200 --> 00:12:50.159 I'm trying to be better. 00:12:50.240 --> 00:12:52.399 I'm trying to what what a lovely thing to do. 00:12:52.480 --> 00:12:54.639 And it's less definitive because nothing is definitive. 00:12:54.720 --> 00:12:55.840 Well, humans are always changing. 00:12:55.919 --> 00:12:56.480 Oh, shut up. 00:12:56.720 --> 00:12:57.440 No, you're you're right. 00:12:57.519 --> 00:12:58.559 Well, humans are always changing. 00:12:58.639 --> 00:13:00.320 Somebody said, Well, what if nothing ever changes? 00:13:00.399 --> 00:13:04.240 You know, so a lot of the folks in the chat are are are throwing out what if questions. 00:13:04.480 --> 00:13:09.039 And the reframe again is just like, okay, well, some things don't change, but most things do change. 00:13:09.120 --> 00:13:14.879 Like, uh, I might often I use, you know, my it's interesting now that we're having this conversation, my reframes are just often challenges. 00:13:15.039 --> 00:13:16.480 I'll just ask you to restate the question. 00:13:16.559 --> 00:13:21.360 I won't give you the reframe, I will challenge you to redefine it so that you find your own reframe. 00:13:21.440 --> 00:13:22.960 I didn't even know I was doing that until just now. 00:13:23.200 --> 00:13:25.919 Like, okay, well, give give me an example of something that has never changed. 00:13:26.159 --> 00:13:28.720 Can you give me something that has never changed in your life ever? 00:13:29.600 --> 00:13:30.080 Yeah. 00:13:31.039 --> 00:13:40.159 The most powerful reframe, one of my favorites in this community, is I went to the family barbecue and I was anxious. 00:13:40.799 --> 00:13:46.639 My favorite reframe, and all of what I do is I went to the barbecue despite being anxious. 00:13:46.799 --> 00:13:47.759 Yeah, that's a good one too. 00:13:48.080 --> 00:13:48.720 That's a good one too. 00:13:48.879 --> 00:13:50.879 I went to the barbecue with anxiety. 00:13:51.519 --> 00:13:53.279 Oh yeah, I like that. 00:13:54.320 --> 00:13:56.240 You went to the barbecue and you got anxious. 00:13:56.720 --> 00:13:57.840 Craig the critic. 00:13:58.080 --> 00:14:00.720 I went to the barbecue despite feeling anxious. 00:14:01.039 --> 00:14:02.159 I'm desensitizing. 00:14:02.480 --> 00:14:02.720 Yeah. 00:14:03.360 --> 00:14:04.960 Soap, same fact. 00:14:05.440 --> 00:14:07.600 Just different way of looking at it. 00:14:07.679 --> 00:14:09.360 That's where we get all therapy and stuff. 00:14:09.440 --> 00:14:11.919 That's where those online grifters and coaches kind of do it. 00:14:12.879 --> 00:14:14.879 Following my 12-step program. 00:14:17.440 --> 00:14:27.279 And I think one of the things that's interesting, I think, and then I want to do an audio did it anyway, because I got one

queued up, but I one of the things that happens with cognitive reframing is, and I always find this interesting. 00:14:27.360 --> 00:14:28.399 We talked about it before. 00:14:28.639 --> 00:14:39.519 A lot of therapists who even understand that the sort of stuff that we do, it really is the most effective way to deal with an anxiety disorder, won't do it because it makes them uncomfortable to you know make people uncomfortable. 00:14:39.679 --> 00:14:41.759 We're encouraging people to intentionally be uncomfortable. 00:14:41.840 --> 00:14:42.799 Many therapists don't want to do that. 00:14:42.879 --> 00:14:43.200 That's fine. 00:14:43.279 --> 00:14:44.000 You don't have to do that. 00:14:44.080 --> 00:14:44.799 We'll do it. 00:14:45.120 --> 00:14:48.960 But they will fall back on this technique, the cognitive reframe. 00:14:49.039 --> 00:14:58.159 They will they invariably in the counseling research, we see, well, I will always want to fall back to do things like cognitive reframing or challenging their thoughts and doing thought records like old school CBT. 00:14:58.480 --> 00:15:01.600 So cognitive reframing is really cool, but you see how we're using it? 00:15:01.759 --> 00:15:09.440 Never to change your thought into something different, only to look at the thought from a different angle that doesn't have the negative catastrophic bias. 00:15:10.000 --> 00:15:11.440 Always what's the compassion? 00:15:11.600 --> 00:15:11.919 Yes. 00:15:12.240 --> 00:15:14.799 How can you see this through compassion? 00:15:15.279 --> 00:15:16.240 Yeah, I agree. 00:15:16.399 --> 00:15:17.440 I I agree, right? 00:15:17.600 --> 00:15:23.519 So no one in this community will look at someone else who's having a panic attack and go, You're pathetic, you're a burden. 00:15:23.679 --> 00:15:24.080 That's true. 00:15:24.240 --> 00:15:27.440 And yet for some reason, when it happens to them, it's like, oh no. 00:15:27.600 --> 00:15:30.559 Yeah, the way I see it is definitely the object truth. 00:15:30.799 --> 00:15:32.960 If it happens to me, the rules change. 00:15:33.279 --> 00:15:36.320 No, you're just seeing things through the wrong lens. 00:15:36.559 --> 00:15:42.399 So a cognitive refrain in this community is actually to do with compassion to do the tricky thing. 00:15:42.639 --> 00:15:49.519 It's nothing to do with getting rid of a feeling, it's to build momentum, it's to keep it going, it's to do all those things, you know. 00:15:49.679 --> 00:15:51.840 Um, otherwise, you won't get momentum. 00:15:51.919 --> 00:15:57.200 You'll go out, you have a panic attack in the park, an adrenaline rush, which was the homework. 00:15:57.360 --> 00:15:57.759 Yep. 00:15:57.919 --> 00:16:00.240 And you're like, no, I'm still panicking, I'm failing. 00:16:00.399 --> 00:16:00.559 Right. 00:16:00.879 --> 00:16:05.600 No, I went to the park and a reframe and I managed to practice with panic. 00:16:05.679 --> 00:16:05.919 Yeah. 00:16:06.159 --> 00:16:06.480 Good. 00:16:06.559 --> 00:16:07.600 I'm gonna do it again. 00:16:08.240 --> 00:16:14.480 Someone in the uh in the audience, sorry, do you someone in the audience said yesterday I had what I'm assuming a panic attack while on the treadmill. 00:16:14.559 --> 00:16:18.159 My heart went from 120 to 170, so naturally started to panic. 00:16:18.399 --> 00:16:19.759 Came back down after 20 minutes. 00:16:19.919 --> 00:16:22.080 My work, my worst fear is heart related. 00:16:22.159 --> 00:16:24.960 Today we get back on the treadmill and do it anyway. 00:16:25.120 --> 00:16:25.360 Love that. 00:16:26.080 --> 00:16:33.840 And you know, I think that would kind of if you want to put a reframe into that for this person who did that, along the path to that moment where I'm getting back on the treadmill. 00:16:33.919 --> 00:16:35.519 I didn't get off, I finished, blah, blah, blah. 00:16:35.919 --> 00:16:40.399 Is oh my god, I got on the treadmill and my heart rate went up to 170 and it was terrible. 00:16:40.639 --> 00:16:47.919 Or the reframe would be you were on the treadmill doing something scary and you encountered a very scary thing and you bravely saw it through. 00:16:48.080 --> 00:16:54.320 It's the same exact thing, except we want to look at it from this way, and that will maybe get you on the treadmill to do it again tomorrow. 00:16:54.399 --> 00:16:57.360 If you if you land on the first one, then you ain't get back on the treadmill. 00:16:57.519 --> 00:17:01.200 You're you're you're telling it, you're you're putting your clothes over it, and it's just a hanger. 00:17:01.279 --> 00:17:11.759 So Yeah, well, it sounds like one of the most famous, not favorite the most popular things that the clients said to me over the years is well, it sounds better when you say it. 00:17:12.960 --> 00:17:14.079 Well, you start saying it. 00:17:14.400 --> 00:17:15.599 That's a hundred percent true. 00:17:15.759 --> 00:17:16.960 Like, okay, then borrow my words. 00:17:17.039 --> 00:17:18.079 Say it the way you might say it. 00:17:18.160 --> 00:17:19.039 Like, experiment with that. 00:17:19.119 --> 00:17:20.799 It's okay, you're allowed to do that, you know. 00:17:20.880 --> 00:17:22.559 So the way you say it sucks. 00:17:22.640 --> 00:17:23.200 It isn't working. 00:17:23.279 --> 00:17:27.599 Well, you can't drill sergeant your way out of something that requires compassion. 00:17:27.759 --> 00:17:29.200 Yeah, um, here's another one. 00:17:29.279 --> 00:17:30.640 This is one of my ones, this one. 00:17:30.880 --> 00:17:32.799 My favorite reframe is panic attack. 00:17:32.880 --> 00:17:34.319 No, adrenaline rush. 00:17:34.559 --> 00:17:34.720 Yes. 00:17:34.960 --> 00:17:35.119 Sure. 00:17:35.279 --> 00:17:35.920 That's exactly right. 00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:36.240 I love it. 00:17:36.400 --> 00:17:36.720 I love it. 00:17:36.960 --> 00:17:40.799 The person who got playing on the treadmill says, I'm now taking my towels off my treadmill. 00:17:41.039 --> 00:17:41.680 Yeah, I know. 00:17:41.839 -->

00:17:44.240 We all have a treadmill that has the clothing draped over it. 00:17:44.319 --> 00:17:44.880 We get it. 00:17:45.039 --> 00:17:47.200 So uh how about we hear from the community? 00:17:47.359 --> 00:17:50.000 We have a pretty cool, like, health anxiety-related did it anyway. 00:17:50.079 --> 00:17:51.119 So let's hear it. 00:17:52.319 --> 00:17:56.640 Hi, my name is Caitlin, and I wanted to share a I did it anyway. 00:17:57.200 --> 00:18:03.839 Uh, I'm someone who suffers really badly from health anxiety, um, and at times can be quite debilitating. 00:18:04.559 --> 00:18:09.359 Uh recently, in the last four months, I've been suffering really badly from migraines. 00:18:10.000 --> 00:18:16.319 Um, going back to the doctor over and over, being given medication, and not taking the medication. 00:18:16.799 --> 00:18:25.759 Um, because something I really struggle with is the fear of having an allergic reaction or a terrible side effect from a med medication. 00:18:26.319 --> 00:18:33.920 But uh that is also from reading Reddit over and over and over for hours, and I'm sure lots of people do the same. 00:18:34.319 --> 00:18:46.960 But I'm proud to say that I did take one of my tablets, um the one that that I had been reading about for hours, um, people saying you know it ruined their lives, killed their whole family, etc. 00:18:47.599 --> 00:18:52.319 And I didn't have any bad side effects, and actually it helped. 00:18:52.720 --> 00:19:02.559 So I think this is just a reminder to those who also fear medication to stop Googling it, stop going on Reddit. 00:19:03.039 --> 00:19:10.480 Um I have deleted the app from my phone and I'm genuinely just going to try and be cold turkey for as much as I can. 00:19:10.880 --> 00:19:20.799 Um it can be very difficult to have health anxiety and also real physical illness at the same time, but I'm just trying to sit with the uncertainty. 00:19:20.960 --> 00:19:28.880 I don't know if it is migraine or if it's gonna kill me, um, but what is the point in thinking about it every second of every day? 00:19:29.200 --> 00:19:34.400 So uh this is just a shout-out to those who are also suffering from the same thing. 00:19:34.559 --> 00:19:36.319 Um, get off of Reddit. 00:19:36.640 --> 00:19:37.839 Thank you for time. 00:19:38.480 --> 00:19:38.960 Bye. 00:19:39.839 --> 00:19:40.880 It's really good. 00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:43.119 Reddit, man. 00:19:45.200 --> 00:19:49.759 Yeah, Reddit, Reddit and AI are not anxiety disorders first. 00:19:50.079 --> 00:19:53.039 Reddit was was a hole I used to go down quite a lot. 00:19:53.200 --> 00:19:55.680 Um, but that was a good did it anyway, wasn't it? 00:19:55.759 --> 00:19:56.160 I love that. 00:19:56.240 --> 00:19:58.640 It's scary doing something new, all that uncertainty. 00:19:58.799 --> 00:20:04.319 I know, loved it, and like I read about it for hours, and everybody said it ruined their life and killed their whole family. 00:20:04.720 --> 00:20:05.279 Like, I don't know.

00:20:05.359 --> 00:20:09.039 I took this this migraine medication in California, broke off into the Pacific Ocean. 00:20:09.119 --> 00:20:11.039 So uh terrible. 00:20:11.200 --> 00:20:12.240 That stuff should be illegal. 00:20:12.400 --> 00:20:13.039 Yeah, yeah. 00:20:13.359 --> 00:20:15.200 Yeah, no, absolutely. 00:20:15.440 --> 00:20:18.000 Um, really good visit, and thanks for sharing that. 00:20:18.160 --> 00:20:19.359 There's a reframe on that one, by the way. 00:20:19.440 --> 00:20:20.799 I'm gonna point out a reframe. 00:20:20.960 --> 00:20:23.200 She said, Yeah, maybe this'll kill me. 00:20:23.359 --> 00:20:23.680 Okay. 00:20:23.920 --> 00:20:24.960 That I I get it. 00:20:25.119 --> 00:20:28.720 Health anxiety is you're a little bit fixated on something terrible will happen. 00:20:28.880 --> 00:20:32.319 But what's the point of thinking about it every minute of every day? 00:20:32.559 --> 00:20:33.359 Ah, love it. 00:20:33.519 --> 00:20:35.680 Yeah, I'm really scared for my health all the time. 00:20:35.759 --> 00:20:40.400 But also, there might be no point in in making that the most important thing in the room all the time. 00:20:40.480 --> 00:20:41.680 There's your reframe. 00:20:42.160 --> 00:20:49.039 Do you think there's a coincidence that we've never had a did it anyway from an estate agent or someone trying to sell a house? 00:20:49.519 --> 00:20:52.960 The realtors and stuff like that, because they're so good at reframes. 00:20:53.279 --> 00:21:00.000 Oh, you know, it's just like you know, that they're trying to this bathroom, the toilets on the wall, you can't even fit in there. 00:21:00.079 --> 00:21:01.920 And they're like, it's cozy. 00:21:03.839 --> 00:21:06.960 Is it true that a family of eight was brutally slaughtered in here? 00:21:07.039 --> 00:21:08.720 Well, it's full of local color and history. 00:21:09.039 --> 00:21:09.920 It's history. 00:21:11.680 --> 00:21:18.240 Yeah, yeah, it's like it's uh the kitchen's like half the walls burnt and there's rust everywhere. 00:21:18.400 --> 00:21:18.960 It's rustic. 00:21:19.119 --> 00:21:19.680 It's rustic. 00:21:20.640 --> 00:21:21.279 It's authentic. 00:21:21.359 --> 00:21:23.920 It's a this sort of authentic space to live your life in. 00:21:24.079 --> 00:21:26.640 So yeah, absolutely, absolutely. 00:21:26.799 --> 00:21:28.160 Become a mistake agent. 00:21:28.400 --> 00:21:29.200 They would be the best thing. 00:21:33.519 --> 00:21:34.400 I love it, man. 00:21:35.119 --> 00:21:36.000 Really good. 00:21:36.240 --> 00:21:38.000 Um, I like this. 00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:40.799 It's hard to get to the point where a panic attack is from the audience. 00:21:40.880 --> 00:21:46.559 It's hard to get to the point where a panic attack is reframe is reframed as an opportunity to practice willful tolerance and rewire. 00:21:46.720 --> 00:21:47.759 Yeah, I mean, it's hard. 00:21:47.839 --> 00:21:52.079 Yeah, but that's the important reminder for me when I'm tempted to resort back to old behaviors and avoids. 00:21:52.319 --> 00:21:52.880 Very good. 00:21:52.960 --> 00:21:55.920 And that is exactly the audience member, is what I did. 00:21:56.079 --> 00:21:56.240 Yeah. 00:21:56.400 --> 00:22:00.640 Like sometimes you get to the stage where you get bigger windows and you feel like Yourself. 00:22:00.799 --> 00:22:06.000 You know, and you often hear this like on forums in the community, like, I'm 90% recovered. 00:22:06.160 --> 00:22:07.920 No, that's why I don't use the word recovery. 00:22:08.000 --> 00:22:10.799 And like, I'm having bigger windows where I don't feel sensitized. 00:22:11.039 --> 00:22:12.240 Great, it's cool. 00:22:12.400 --> 00:22:16.000 But you might get, odds are, you might get an adrenaline rusher or panic again. 00:22:16.319 --> 00:22:20.160 You know, uh, I do probably maybe once a year. 00:22:20.400 --> 00:22:23.279 I'll get an adrenaline rusher, I don't know, old pathways, whatever. 00:22:23.440 --> 00:22:24.079 Yeah. 00:22:24.400 --> 00:22:32.960 Uh, but even then, audience member, I would be like, ooh, you know, let's let's let's dust off the jacket and see how that willful tolerance gets on, you know. 00:22:33.039 --> 00:22:42.000 Like it's not, oh no, it's back, I've got wrong, or I still use that old reframe, like, okay, let's let's see if I can practice my willful tolerance. 00:22:42.079 --> 00:22:44.480 Now it feels harder because I'm out of practice. 00:22:44.720 --> 00:22:45.519 Nah, it's fine. 00:22:45.839 --> 00:22:46.559 Crap on with it. 00:22:46.799 --> 00:22:48.799 I think there's a reframe before that reframe. 00:22:48.880 --> 00:22:53.599 For me, it's like I knew I I have to acknowledge, I knew this was gonna happen at some point. 00:22:53.839 --> 00:22:55.119 Like, I know it's gonna happen. 00:22:55.200 --> 00:22:59.359 So, like, oh no, I was doing so great, and then you know, I had a really hard day. 00:22:59.519 --> 00:23:03.680 Okay, and and you know, can you consider the possibility that you had a hard day? 00:23:03.839 --> 00:23:14.079 Because everybody has a hard day sometimes, like even the people with the expensive microphones and the cameras that have the anxiety podcast are gonna have a hard day and get hooked by the old shit for a couple of minutes or an hour. 00:23:14.160 --> 00:23:16.240 And okay, I knew that was gonna happen. 00:23:16.319 --> 00:23:18.799 And now I get to practice again my old stuff. 00:23:18.960 --> 00:23:22.319 So do you remember when we were playing Satisfactory online? 00:23:22.640 --> 00:23:23.920 We're playing a co-op game, yeah. 00:23:24.400 --> 00:23:27.920 And you were like, Oh my god, I feel I feel like I'm having an adrenaline rush. 00:23:28.160 --> 00:23:34.799 And then what what was my response to legitimately the worst reframe in the history of the universe? 00:23:34.960 --> 00:23:36.400 I said, I think I'm having a panic attack. 00:23:36.480 --> 00:23:40.960 And Josh immediately said, Is it possible that you should just believe every thought

your mind makes right now? 00:23:41.039 --> 00:23:47.359 Like that was the biggest all those thoughts are real, all those thoughts are realings of warnings you are about to die. 00:23:49.119 --> 00:23:51.279 Wow, that was the worst reframe ever. 00:23:51.440 --> 00:23:52.240 Just saying. 00:23:52.559 --> 00:23:53.759 I don't do that in my practice, bro. 00:23:54.240 --> 00:23:56.400 No, he reserves it for his friends for sure. 00:23:57.039 --> 00:23:58.160 It was uh it was a thing. 00:23:58.240 --> 00:24:02.319 It's somebody who just said she found out about this podcast on Reddit while searching anxiety. 00:24:02.480 --> 00:24:04.319 All right, well, maybe Reddit ain't so bad. 00:24:07.119 --> 00:24:08.079 Yep, the reframe. 00:24:08.240 --> 00:24:10.319 Uh uh would you like another did it anyway? 00:24:10.559 --> 00:24:11.920 Sure, let's hear it. 00:24:13.359 --> 00:24:14.960 Okay, here we go. 00:24:15.440 --> 00:24:20.640 Um I don't think they've given permission to use their name, but it's lovely. 00:24:20.799 --> 00:24:25.920 Um I've had general anxiety that turned into health anxiety off and on since high school. 00:24:26.160 --> 00:24:27.680 Currently I'm 68. 00:24:27.920 --> 00:24:31.759 Sometimes I've gone years with nothing more than typical anxious moments. 00:24:32.160 --> 00:24:34.240 Other times it goes on for weeks or months. 00:24:34.480 --> 00:24:35.920 No panic tactile. 00:24:36.319 --> 00:24:47.359 I have a wonderful therapist who has helped with many other things along with tracking down the roots of some other anxiety, but not in managing the anxiety, health anxiety itself. 00:24:47.599 --> 00:24:53.839 Health anxiety usually comes after something happens around me or to me, and I see it and I know it. 00:24:54.079 --> 00:24:57.839 No one around me other than my husband knows or would even guess. 00:24:58.000 --> 00:25:00.559 On the outside, I am calm and collected. 00:25:00.960 --> 00:25:05.359 When these periods happen, it goes on for weeks under the cool exterior. 00:25:05.599 --> 00:25:08.480 It always has always been better when I am at work. 00:25:08.640 --> 00:25:18.480 I've worked with profoundly autistic, seriously, um uh kids with behavioral issues and adults for decades, and I kind of lose myself in my in my work with them. 00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:21.759 Right now, I'm headed towards eventual retirement. 00:25:22.000 --> 00:25:28.000 What I am saying is that I've done a version of a did it anyway because it seemed like the only choice. 00:25:28.319 --> 00:25:35.680 What I have learned from your podcasts and books is to do it anyway with intention, and it has made all the difference. 00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:41.279 Ironically, I teach mindfulness in yoga with intentional doing it anyway. 00:25:41.440 --> 00:25:47.200 It dissolves in a much shorter time, and the confidence that gives is life-changing. 00:25:47.359 --> 00:25:49.119 Thank you so much for all that you do. 00:25:49.279 --> 00:25:50.480 Oh, I love it. 00:25:53.759 --> 00:25:55.599 It's really nice that one as well. 00:25:55.680 --> 00:26:00.400 And you could you can factor in kind of some anxiety, disorder-informed mindfulness in yoga. 00:26:00.640 --> 00:26:01.039 Oh, yeah. 00:26:01.519 --> 00:26:02.160 Oh, absolutely. 00:26:02.319 --> 00:26:02.559 Yeah. 00:26:02.799 --> 00:26:05.039 I mean, that's that's what yoga actually is. 00:26:05.200 --> 00:26:07.359 Like just paying attention moment by moment. 00:26:07.759 --> 00:26:08.559 That that's it. 00:26:08.960 --> 00:26:09.200 Yeah. 00:26:09.440 --> 00:26:10.720 I love the intention. 00:26:10.960 --> 00:26:13.440 Like doing it anyway with intention. 00:26:13.599 --> 00:26:15.359 Yeah, probably one of the most important. 00:26:15.440 --> 00:26:16.880 There's a reframe for you right there. 00:26:17.039 --> 00:26:18.079 Like, oh, do it anyway. 00:26:18.240 --> 00:26:20.720 You know, well, oh, I I do it anyway, but nothing is changing. 00:26:20.880 --> 00:26:23.519 Well, are are you doing it anyway with intention? 00:26:23.599 --> 00:26:25.759 Like, what's your intention when you do it anyway? 00:26:26.000 --> 00:26:26.880 Oh, yeah. 00:26:27.039 --> 00:26:32.160 Is it possible that you're doing it anyway, but also just trying to push through it until you get done with doing it anyway? 00:26:32.400 --> 00:26:33.119 Yeah, yeah. 00:26:33.359 --> 00:26:34.960 Really good, really good one though. 00:26:35.680 --> 00:26:36.720 Here's another reframe. 00:26:36.880 --> 00:26:37.359 Yeah. 00:26:37.680 --> 00:26:42.160 Um why is this happening to me? 00:26:42.400 --> 00:26:44.640 You know, why did this have to happen to me? 00:26:44.880 --> 00:26:46.559 Why did this have to happen to me? 00:26:46.960 --> 00:26:48.640 I something I used to say a lot. 00:26:49.200 --> 00:27:01.200 And now I'm like, I'm glad that happened to me so I could learn about myself and all the things that have happened as a result of it has made me a more grounded, mature, and happier person. 00:27:01.359 --> 00:27:01.440 Yeah. 00:27:01.680 --> 00:27:02.640 Genuinely sold up. 00:27:02.880 --> 00:27:05.440 And there's some people that listen to that, be like, shut up, Josh. 00:27:05.759 --> 00:27:11.440 Smug, you don't know, but waking up with intrusive thoughts and panicking in the car, and you know you smug kid. 00:27:11.759 --> 00:27:14.160 But in general, yeah, uh looking back, yeah, I'm glad it happened. 00:27:14.319 --> 00:27:15.759 Yeah, it's a retroactive reframe. 00:27:16.079 --> 00:27:20.319 You know, in in that situation, it might be the yeah, yeah, I'm glad that it happened. 00:27:20.400 --> 00:27:20.880 Yeah, maybe. 00:27:21.039 --> 00:27:23.039 Or like also, well, you're just really scared right now. 00:27:23.119 --> 00:27:24.559 Is it possible you're just really scared right now? 00:27:24.640 --> 00:27:26.240 And like and you're just trying to feel safer. 00:27:26.400 --> 00:27:26.960 Okay, cool. 00:27:27.039 --> 00:27:28.799 Both things can be true at the same time, you

know. 00:27:28.960 --> 00:27:33.039 Somebody in the audience said, Either I'm bad at reframing or I don't believe my reframing. 00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:44.240 I think that's a really great, I mean it's a little bit of a joke, but if you don't believe your reframe, it might be because your reframe is trying to prove the original thought wrong. 00:27:44.720 --> 00:27:47.680 Like, oh, clearly I'm failing and I'm never gonna get better. 00:27:47.759 --> 00:27:51.440 And your reframe is, oh, but it's fine, everything's gonna be fine, uh, and I'm gonna be great. 00:27:51.680 --> 00:27:54.000 Yeah, yeah, you don't definitely do not believe that in that moment. 00:27:54.319 --> 00:27:59.119 I think a reframe is so important to take into account the fact that you your mind does not believe it. 00:27:59.279 --> 00:28:05.920 You can't the reframe is not arguing against, it's not presenting the the 180-degree opposite truth that won't work. 00:28:06.160 --> 00:28:09.839 So yeah, yeah, no, of course, of course, of course. 00:28:10.000 --> 00:28:10.480 Yeah, cool. 00:28:10.640 --> 00:28:13.839 Think and think of another reframe while I we got a question. 00:28:14.000 --> 00:28:14.880 Would you like the question? 00:28:15.200 --> 00:28:16.319 We could do the question if you want. 00:28:16.480 --> 00:28:20.160 I mean, I'm going through the chat here to see, you know, what other people are looking for. 00:28:20.240 --> 00:28:22.000 Like, what would they try to reframe? 00:28:22.160 --> 00:28:30.000 Um, well, you know, let me offer one quick reframe because there's a person who's talking about like, you know, how am I supposed to do this really scary thing that's coming up? 00:28:30.160 --> 00:28:32.559 Like, how do I use this process to do a scary thing? 00:28:33.200 --> 00:28:35.119 The process is doing the scary thing. 00:28:35.359 --> 00:28:38.000 So the reframe is that the process, that's right. 00:28:38.400 --> 00:28:42.000 The reframe is I I have to use this process so I can do a scary thing. 00:28:42.160 --> 00:28:45.440 I know that's the process is doing a scary thing. 00:28:45.839 --> 00:28:49.519 So it's not how do I how do I knock down the fear so I could do this thing? 00:28:49.599 --> 00:28:53.519 It's oh, am I willing to go and do the thing while I'm while I'm afraid? 00:28:53.599 --> 00:28:54.559 That's my goal here. 00:28:54.640 --> 00:29:00.880 So yeah, little subtle ones like how do I do surrender and willful tolerance? 00:29:01.680 --> 00:29:05.920 Yeah, how do I practice surrender and willful tolerance? 00:29:06.160 --> 00:29:13.680 I am practicing the sense that it's not don't technique if I go for the tech how what's the one technique that makes all the feelings go away and I get really good at it? 00:29:14.079 --> 00:29:16.240 No, it's just how am I practicing that? 00:29:16.400 --> 00:29:20.799 How here's an opportunity to practice that's one of the most common reframes I've used. 00:29:20.960 --> 00:29:22.559 Here's an opportunity to practice. 00:29:22.799 --> 00:29:23.359 Remember that. 00:29:23.680 --> 00:29:26.960 If you're anxious and you forget all this, just here's an opportunity to practice. 00:29:27.200 --> 00:29:27.519 Absolutely. 00:29:27.599 --> 00:29:33.200 And then the the but the the pushback is, and I'll I'll I'll generetize it here so we don't out anybody. 00:29:33.279 --> 00:29:35.519 But so the person says, Yeah, but how do I practice? 00:29:35.759 --> 00:29:37.279 Insert the event coming up, right? 00:29:37.359 --> 00:29:38.160 And we hear it all the time. 00:29:38.240 --> 00:29:39.440 Yeah, but how do you practice a flight? 00:29:39.519 --> 00:29:40.720 Yeah, but how do you practice a wedding? 00:29:40.799 --> 00:29:41.839 Yeah, but how do you practice surgery? 00:29:41.920 --> 00:29:43.680 Yeah, but how do you practice a dentist appointment? 00:29:43.920 --> 00:29:50.160 It's not the surgery, it's the fact that you are so scared and think you can't handle your own fear. 00:29:50.400 --> 00:29:51.839 That's the the surgery. 00:29:52.160 --> 00:29:55.039 The reframe on that is like the surgery is just a trigger. 00:29:55.119 --> 00:30:01.440 Is it possible that surgery is just a trigger for this internal state that you have declared unhandleable in your life? 00:30:01.680 --> 00:30:04.319 So that's what we're we're trying to switch that way, right? 00:30:05.119 --> 00:30:05.599 Yeah. 00:30:05.839 --> 00:30:08.079 Um, yeah, absolutely. 00:30:08.480 --> 00:30:10.240 Um, very good. 00:30:10.400 --> 00:30:12.000 Uh here let me read this question. 00:30:12.160 --> 00:30:12.559 How was it? 00:30:12.640 --> 00:30:14.079 Um, hi Josh and Drew. 00:30:14.319 --> 00:30:15.920 First, I just want to say thank you for the podcast. 00:30:16.079 --> 00:30:19.440 Found it really helpful and supportive, especially it's been a difficult year with anxiety. 00:30:19.599 --> 00:30:25.839 I wonder if you could help me find out about the difference between anxiety and being a highly sensitive person, HSP. 00:30:26.240 --> 00:30:36.400 I came across HSP a while ago, Elaine are on, and I and although I know there are questions around how scientifically supported the concept is, yeah, I certainly am. 00:30:37.440 --> 00:30:41.680 Certainly, certainly are questions around that, it really resonated with me. 00:30:41.839 --> 00:30:44.240 I've always thought of myself as quite a sensitive person. 00:30:44.400 --> 00:30:45.200 Me too, Elaine. 00:30:45.279 --> 00:30:48.960 I'm really sensitive, but I don't think I've always been particularly anxious. 00:30:49.119 --> 00:30:52.960 What I struggle with now is working out where the line is between the two. 00:30:53.279 --> 00:30:58.799 Uh, I feel like I naturally process things quite deeply and take time to make decisions by looking at all options. 00:30:58.960 --> 00:31:05.839 Well, it sounds like you're very um intelligent and can notice things others might not and have a high level of empathy. 00:31:06.000 --> 00:31:08.160 Well, yeah,

emotionally intelligent too. 00:31:08.319 --> 00:31:13.279 But when my anxiety is high, how do I know that that's just my natural way of processing things? 00:31:13.440 --> 00:31:17.200 And when it's actually turned into rumination or anxious overthinking? 00:31:17.440 --> 00:31:22.079 How do I distinguish between a personality trait or temperament that's always been there? 00:31:22.319 --> 00:31:24.480 You know, uh, where it's reflective, sensitive. 00:31:24.559 --> 00:31:27.920 So this is the the question's already going for how can I be certain? 00:31:28.079 --> 00:31:28.240 Yeah. 00:31:30.720 --> 00:31:34.240 Uh I've always been sensitive, but I don't feel like I've always been anxious. 00:31:34.400 --> 00:31:36.079 But have you noticed here? 00:31:37.039 --> 00:31:39.680 Um definitely here. 00:31:39.839 --> 00:31:46.079 Have you noticed with this question is that your anxiety will always want you to be special and it wants your attention? 00:31:46.400 --> 00:31:50.640 So, oh okay, well, I'd listen to the podcast, but maybe maybe I'm different. 00:31:50.799 --> 00:31:51.039 Yeah. 00:31:51.279 --> 00:31:52.240 Maybe I'm different. 00:31:52.400 --> 00:31:56.960 Also, I did a little Google of symptoms of um a HSP. 00:31:57.119 --> 00:32:06.880 Uh, this isn't to degrade the question, it's just to show you um that anyone can write a book and sell loads of resonance cells. 00:32:07.039 --> 00:32:09.200 Uh, yeah, we did, yeah, we did. 00:32:09.359 --> 00:32:16.480 Uh here's some symptoms of a HSP sensory overload, easily startled, crowd aversion, and physical sensitivity. 00:32:16.559 --> 00:32:18.640 That describes almost everyone in this community. 00:32:19.440 --> 00:32:21.519 Um, deep empathy. 00:32:21.599 --> 00:32:23.359 Well, yeah, you're intelligent emotionally. 00:32:24.000 --> 00:32:27.759 Deep empathy is not a flaw, it's not a symptom of something. 00:32:27.920 --> 00:32:29.839 Uh, aversion to media violence. 00:32:30.079 --> 00:32:33.359 Actually, maybe I do quite can't wait for Grand Theft Auto. 00:32:33.759 --> 00:32:38.640 Um, conflict, but yeah, um overwhelmed from precious stuff. 00:32:38.880 --> 00:32:42.240 This isn't unique to a certain personality trait. 00:32:42.400 --> 00:32:52.559 Uh, my only opinion on that is don't use the title HSP to make your to affect the narrative, to make your anxiety special. 00:32:52.799 --> 00:32:57.759 Because look, you want certainty, and that's the mechanism that we all have in this community. 00:32:58.079 --> 00:32:58.480 I agree. 00:32:58.640 --> 00:33:00.799 Uh I you know, and it's always a touchy thing. 00:33:00.880 --> 00:33:04.319 I don't fine if you're if you wanted to say HSP, that's fine. 00:33:04.559 --> 00:33:14.640 But I I don't have any good experience with that label because it's just like the person with GAD, for instance, who wants to stop ruminating and worrying. 00:33:14.720 --> 00:33:17.359 They really want they they get it, like this is making me crazy. 00:33:17.519 --> 00:33:24.400 But also I want to make sure that I am the war war W O R warrior because that makes me a loving parent. 00:33:24.480 --> 00:33:26.480 That's what proves my goodness or my kindness. 00:33:26.720 --> 00:33:29.920 So, like, okay, I I tend to be empathetic with people. 00:33:30.240 --> 00:33:32.160 If I see somebody struggling, I I feel for them. 00:33:32.400 --> 00:33:32.880 Okay, cool. 00:33:32.960 --> 00:33:33.440 Like, lovely. 00:33:33.519 --> 00:33:34.480 The world needs people like you. 00:33:34.559 --> 00:33:34.960 We love that. 00:33:35.119 --> 00:33:45.519 But but I'm an HSP, so that means that I I that's a that's a trait that I have to lean into and like, oh, and now I'm a mess for five hours because I feel everything so strongly in the room. 00:33:45.759 --> 00:33:49.279 Like it's a virtue to take on other people's emotions. 00:33:49.599 --> 00:33:50.559 Empathy is fine. 00:33:50.720 --> 00:33:55.359 If empathy informs support or empathy informs action of some kind, we love that. 00:33:55.599 --> 00:34:03.759 If empathy informs, no, I just sit with this feeling in the pit of my stomach and say it's an inevitability, and it's also kind of a good thing that I'm so sensitive. 00:34:03.839 --> 00:34:05.359 Like, look at me, how sensitive I am. 00:34:05.519 --> 00:34:08.880 It's really hard to reconcile how do I learn to be with difficult feelings. 00:34:09.119 --> 00:34:11.039 So I always challenge it a little bit. 00:34:11.119 --> 00:34:13.599 It's not I'm not taking away your empathy, it's a good thing, right? 00:34:13.679 --> 00:34:18.639 So the sensitivity is a fine thing, but we just want to be careful about calling it an inevitability. 00:34:18.800 --> 00:34:23.119 I have to be an HSP, but also want to make sure that I can tolerate difficult feelings. 00:34:23.679 --> 00:34:24.400 Yeah, exactly. 00:34:24.480 --> 00:34:28.159 And do you not reckon underneath this, and I'm only speculating question, Sandra? 00:34:28.400 --> 00:34:29.360 So beautiful question. 00:34:29.519 --> 00:34:29.760 Yeah. 00:34:29.920 --> 00:34:37.920 Uh, do you not think underneath it all it's I'm an HSP, so I can't tolerate it? 00:34:38.480 --> 00:34:41.440 You know, and I get that from I I'm a this, I'm a that. 00:34:41.519 --> 00:34:47.199 I'm an autistic guy, I get sensory overload, I'm getting sensitive of things, like whatever. 00:34:47.440 --> 00:34:48.239 It's not nice. 00:34:48.320 --> 00:34:54.079 My friends and loved ones can deal with it better, but I can still tolerate discomfort. 00:34:54.400 --> 00:34:55.360 That's the difference. 00:34:55.599 --> 00:35:02.159 And maybe you're maybe your level of tolerance and my level of tolerance are going to be different, or maybe from day to day we're gonna be different because we're human beings. 00:35:02.400 --> 00:35:08.400 But the it's the absolute statement how I can't tolerate this because I have this personality trait. 00:35:08.559 --> 00:35:10.800 Well, okay, then that would mean a life of

accommodation. 00:35:10.960 --> 00:35:13.840 And if you could pick that, and we would still root for you if that works for you. 00:35:14.079 --> 00:35:15.280 So it's all good. 00:35:15.840 --> 00:35:17.440 Um, anyway, good question. 00:35:18.000 --> 00:35:25.039 How about uh how about a did it anyway from our little community because I think it's a good one, and we'll see what we can do after that. 00:35:25.280 --> 00:35:26.960 Also, can I make a casting call? 00:35:27.199 --> 00:35:29.199 We need more audio did it anyways. 00:35:29.440 --> 00:35:33.679 Loads of written ones, and it's lovely, but there's a scarcity of audio did it anyways. 00:35:33.840 --> 00:35:38.880 So, your challenge, if you're someone who listens there, is to send in an audio did it anyway. 00:35:38.960 --> 00:35:41.280 Whoever you are, wherever you're in the world, send them in. 00:35:41.360 --> 00:35:45.280 We need loads, and if we get enough, we'll just do an episode just piping them all through. 00:35:45.599 --> 00:35:47.760 Uh, we need more audio did it anyways. 00:35:47.920 --> 00:35:56.639 So if this is you and you're like, I'm scared to send something to those guys, well then send something in, and nothing is too scary, nothing is too small. 00:35:57.119 --> 00:36:01.440 If it terrifies you just to get out of bed and brush your teeth, that's a good did it anyway. 00:36:01.519 --> 00:36:13.199 Yeah, but you know, if you get in a plane and jumping out of a plane and into, I don't know, a submarine and going to the whatever, send that is into there's no one too big, there's no one too small. 00:36:13.360 --> 00:36:15.039 Yeah, and you can do that where, Drew? 00:36:15.280 --> 00:36:16.639 At disorder.fm. 00:36:16.719 --> 00:36:20.159 You hit the little blue thing on the side of the page and it'll open a little voicemail recording thing. 00:36:20.239 --> 00:36:21.920 You got two minutes, so be mindful of that. 00:36:22.079 --> 00:36:23.360 But yeah, we love them all. 00:36:23.440 --> 00:36:24.159 So send them in. 00:36:24.239 --> 00:36:25.280 I love that it's a casting call. 00:36:25.360 --> 00:36:27.519 We're paying SAG AFSTRA minimum, by the way. 00:36:27.599 --> 00:36:28.800 So do you're not gonna get rich? 00:36:28.960 --> 00:36:30.159 That's we're paying nothing. 00:36:30.320 --> 00:36:31.360 Admittedly, it's zero. 00:36:31.599 --> 00:36:33.199 You get exposed, you get exposure. 00:36:33.519 --> 00:36:34.320 Do it for exposure. 00:36:34.400 --> 00:36:35.199 Yeah, that's exactly right. 00:36:35.360 --> 00:36:39.360 Yeah, like if all the people who will hear you talk about how you vomited and were okay. 00:36:39.599 --> 00:36:43.519 Uh oh, emetophobia and OCD ones, please send them in as well. 00:36:43.679 --> 00:36:45.119 Oh, we love all those for sure. 00:36:45.280 --> 00:36:47.039 I love an intrusive thought, did it anyway. 00:36:47.119 --> 00:36:51.599 Just as simple as I don't know, like sat there and your brain's like, what if I stab my family? 00:36:51.760 -->

00:36:53.840 But I picked up my and ate my dinner. 00:36:53.920 --> 00:36:54.559 I love those ones. 00:36:54.880 --> 00:36:56.639 Yeah, I I used the knife anyway. 00:36:56.719 --> 00:36:57.920 I carved my steak anyway. 00:36:58.000 --> 00:36:58.880 Yeah, it's really good. 00:36:59.280 --> 00:37:03.199 Um speaking of like there's no small, and people are and they send in their did it ways often. 00:37:03.280 --> 00:37:04.320 It's like, well, this is stilly. 00:37:04.559 --> 00:37:08.400 There's no silly did it anyways, as evidenced by this one from a member of our little community. 00:37:08.480 --> 00:37:11.840 Uh, I realized, says this person, that there are no small did it anyways. 00:37:11.920 --> 00:37:12.159 Good. 00:37:12.320 --> 00:37:14.159 So I'll share something that feels small. 00:37:14.320 --> 00:37:16.880 Thanks, Craig the critic, but I realize it's actually huge. 00:37:17.039 --> 00:37:23.119 I have some body stuff going on, and health anxiety is really trying hard to have me treat it as something urgent. 00:37:23.280 --> 00:37:28.000 It's saying it could be related to your surgery, or this could be this or that, whatever. 00:37:28.239 --> 00:37:31.840 I see that path and I'm choosing to not go down it. 00:37:32.000 --> 00:37:39.039 Not Googling, not messaging my doctor, not doing what is just doing what is practical to help the body stuff and giving my body some time and space. 00:37:39.280 --> 00:37:42.960 If and when it is time to address it further, I will. 00:37:43.199 --> 00:37:44.400 End of story. 00:37:44.559 --> 00:37:46.719 Uh I'm very, very proud of myself. 00:37:46.880 --> 00:37:52.480 It's hard not to compulse and ruminate, but it's how to take the boiling pot off the flame, so to speak. 00:37:52.800 --> 00:37:53.119 Oh. 00:37:53.920 --> 00:37:54.719 I'm sorry. 00:37:56.000 --> 00:37:57.760 Where's the reframe in that one, right? 00:37:57.840 --> 00:37:58.880 Like I'm scared. 00:37:58.960 --> 00:38:01.360 You know, well, what if it's what if it's a horrible thing that's gonna happen? 00:38:01.440 --> 00:38:02.000 What if I'm gonna die? 00:38:02.079 --> 00:38:03.360 What if uh what if this can happen? 00:38:03.440 --> 00:38:05.679 No, no, the reframe was like, Yeah, I see this process. 00:38:05.760 --> 00:38:07.039 It wants me to catastrophize. 00:38:07.119 --> 00:38:08.960 Uh, I'm just gonna do what I can do, and then that's it. 00:38:09.039 --> 00:38:10.000 I can't do any more than that. 00:38:10.159 --> 00:38:10.719 That's it. 00:38:11.679 --> 00:38:12.480 Love it. 00:38:12.800 --> 00:38:14.639 Yeah, really, really good. 00:38:15.199 --> 00:38:16.320 Um, excellent. 00:38:16.480 --> 00:38:17.119 Anything else? 00:38:17.199 --> 00:38:21.280 Or we're gonna see if you're only part of the community, you can do disorder.fm. 00:38:21.360 --> 00:38:23.760 It's not it's not essential, just a lovely group for us. 00:38:23.920 --> 00:38:29.039 Um, thank you for if you got time to leave a review or a star rating wherever you listen to us. 00:38:29.119 --> 00:38:32.320 That's that's really um, we'd really appreciate that. 00:38:32.480 --> 00:38:34.800 Uh the few health anxiety did it anyways, there. 00:38:34.880 --> 00:38:38.480 So we do have a book on the disordered guide to health anxiety. 00:38:38.559 --> 00:38:44.000 And we're currently writing the disordered guide to DPDR, which is going to be the second in the disordered library. 00:38:44.159 --> 00:38:48.079 So if you struggle with DPDR and derealization, then that'll be dropping too. 00:38:48.320 --> 00:38:49.440 What color should that book be? 00:38:49.599 --> 00:38:51.599 Uh we we decided all the books should have a color. 00:38:51.760 --> 00:38:52.239 DBDR. 00:38:53.119 --> 00:38:53.599 Maybe green? 00:38:54.239 --> 00:38:55.119 Green is DPDR. 00:38:55.440 --> 00:38:55.760 Let us know. 00:38:55.840 --> 00:38:58.480 Like, what color do you think DPDRxiety was the blue book? 00:38:58.559 --> 00:38:59.679 So DPDR might be. 00:38:59.840 --> 00:39:03.199 No, it should be see, it should be see-through and warm. 00:39:03.599 --> 00:39:07.840 And it's it's half reflective, so you're not quite sure really seeing it or not. 00:39:08.079 --> 00:39:11.039 And the right and the writing's like far or far away and up close. 00:39:11.360 --> 00:39:15.360 Oh, these stoker would just use different fonts, like it looks like perspective. 00:39:17.599 --> 00:39:20.239 Would be the cruelest DPDR book ever. 00:39:20.639 --> 00:39:22.480 Probably the only DPDR book ever written, because aren't you? 00:39:22.960 --> 00:39:23.199 Mirror. 00:39:24.800 --> 00:39:27.760 A mirror, it's just you open it, just black, just blackness. 00:39:28.000 --> 00:39:30.400 There's the blackest vanta black pages, right? 00:39:30.480 --> 00:39:31.280 What is that called? 00:39:32.800 --> 00:39:34.079 You never know what the next page is gonna be. 00:39:34.159 --> 00:39:34.639 What horror is the colour? 00:39:34.880 --> 00:39:35.280 Cosmic. 00:39:37.039 --> 00:39:38.559 People with DPDR love it. 00:39:39.760 --> 00:39:40.800 Mirror and then the cosmos. 00:39:41.519 --> 00:39:43.280 Telescope Pillars of Creation picture. 00:39:43.440 --> 00:39:44.960 Hey, here's our picture of eternity. 00:39:45.119 --> 00:39:45.760 Enjoy that. 00:39:46.400 --> 00:39:46.719 Yeah. 00:39:47.199 --> 00:39:48.559 Anyway, guys, very good. 00:39:48.639 --> 00:39:51.440 I will wrap up with uh just a reminder on the reframes. 00:39:51.679 --> 00:40:06.719 Reframe is not to prove your thing wrong or argue with it, it's just to take a little step a few degrees to the left or the right, and maybe see that you're looking through a catastrophic I can't lens and just try to see it in a different way. 00:40:06.880 --> 00:40:08.639 Maybe you can, even though you're really scared. 00:40:08.880 --> 00:40:09.440 That's it. 00:40:09.679 --> 00:40:12.480 So, all right, we'll do it again next week, yes. 00:40:12.800 --> 00:40:14.239 Yeah, catch you later, guys. 00:40:14.320 --> 00:40:15.360 Thanks for hanging out.