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Hey guys, well, welcome back to the Disciples Made Here podcast.
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I'm Drew Sodostrom, and man, it's been a gift to just journey with all of you over these last couple of months.
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Thank you for the way that you're fighting for your joy in Jesus, but doing it as a community with the hope that each of us would live out our calling as a sent one, a son, a daughter, truly deployed.
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And so just a quick reminder where we've been.
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On our podcast last week, we looked at the woman at the well and how Jesus models this really this pathway of engaging in conversation and normal day life, pointing us to follow him to the joy that he offers, and then actually living that out.
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And so today's fun.
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It's one of our guest episodes.
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Um, as we prepare to walk through the disciples making diamonds, some of these ideas and concepts will be pulling apart over the next really month.
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It's because of guys like Hugh.
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Uh, I would consider Hugh a big brother.
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Hugh, I don't know if you remember, I met you at an EFCA gathering of all places.
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Really, the year that we launched vintage, and you were not just putting words to my vision, because vision is just words on paper unless it's lived out.
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You lived it.
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And I'm like, Hugh's who I want to be when I grow up.
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We were just talking about CrossFit.
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I'll never be as strong as Hugh, but I want to follow as faithfully as you, man.
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And so I just want to start today by introducing you to my friends with Disciples Made Here, but also by just saying thank you.
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Not just the way that you lead, but more so the way that you follow, uh, the way that you paint houses and be a dad and the way you live as a husband, your brokenness.
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Um, but God's goodness shines through you to me.
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You are a missionary.
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Um, and I am just so, so dang grateful for you, brother.
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So thanks for being here, man.
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Yeah, just keep going.
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That was sounding great.
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You should just five weeks.
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That's the only kind of thing.
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And I could I could go on and on because I say vision's caught not taught, and I've caught part of it from you.
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Whatever.
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Yep, yep.
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So before we get into like just some questions I threw at you earlier, uh just tell us your story.
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Like, I know part of your story.
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Right now you're out in Alton, but there were decades before that led you to this point.
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Give me some big steps to how you got to Alton today, but where have you come from to get you where you are today?
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Yeah, big steps are uh Portland, Oregon to Denver to Alton.
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Portland uh was where I was doing inner city kind of youth ministry with Youth for Christ about 10 years, which led to our first church plant there.
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Um, but it was it was not a normal church plant.
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I was a house painter.
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Um, you know, we didn't take any money from it, so I made my income on the outside.
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And it was mostly just uh a lot of evangelism, and then just trying to to give people a community to be a part of the the backstory behind that was our son Ryan uh had really severe epilepsy, so we were it was hard to leave the house.
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That's why we did most of what we did out of the house and out of the neighborhood.
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Um, you know, driving the minivan to church just wasn't an option for us, and right.
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So, really, it was uh my wife and I just trying to learn how to live like missionaries right where we were, and that went good.
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And then we eventually moved to Denver uh to try to do it more intentionally.
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We we decided to start more of a missionary movement, we thought it wasn't really a let's start one church, let's just try to teach people how to live like we live.
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And that ended up being a story called The Tangible Kingdom that ended up traveling around the world and got me traveling.
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But it it was, you know, it wasn't rocket science, it was just individual people that work normal jobs that um would take a chunk of their neighborhood or a need or something that really captured their heart, and they would build a missionary community around that.
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And so we built that network up to 20 some uh kind of communities around the Denver Metroplex and just basically trying to make the kingdom tangible to people and then letting them respond to it.
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That was kind of the evangelistic discipleship process is you live in such a way that people would go, hey, uh I would love to do lunch with you, you know.
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So we would never go after anybody, we just waited for them to come and ask us to do something.
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So um that was 15, 14 years, 15 years of that.
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Um yeah, and then we found an assisted living center for our son out in this little Midwestern town just north of St.
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Louis called Alton, Illinois, and never thought we would leave Denver and move uh to this spot.
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Um, but I always say our son's disability uh caused him to be the spiritual patriarch of our whole family.
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So he taught us how to live as missionaries.
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He also got our entire family, my two adult daughters and their husbands, uh, to all come out here with us about 10 years ago with the idea of just trying to do something to help the city.
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It's a very impoverished area.
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Average family income is about 20,000, uh sort of half black, half-white context.
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But we literally didn't know what we were gonna do.
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We just felt like God called us on mission number three, and now we've got five grandkids and we've all settled here, and it appears as though we are stuck here forever.
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So that's kind of the journey.
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Yeah.
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Well, and I love it because as I've walked with you from a distance every step of the way, you're just simply saying, I'm a son and a sent one, and you've not gone to easy-to-reach places.
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Like you've gone where God's opened doors and called you.
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You're never looking at the next thing, you're always just right here, right now.
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And it feels like there's plenty for you to do every day of your life.
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Um but that's where your faithfulness is just something that I, again, I'm encouraged by, I'm inspired by.
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Um, in hard times and easy times, there's no such thing as easy times.
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It feels like everything you've done has been hard, but you've also said it's worth it.
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Yeah, the uh kind of the undercurrent has always been that little suffering element with my son.
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You know, I mean, that was uh one hour of sleep a night for me uh because I would take the night duty and then Cheryl would take him during the day.
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And yeah, it was kind of I don't looking back, I don't know how we got through, but it I always just go the Lord knows what he's doing.
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Um, I don't think I would be the person I am without that constant sort of undercurrent of suffering.
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Uh it changed who I was.
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I think it made me a better person in general.
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Um, my wife didn't need that, she was already already pretty great, but um yeah, when we got to Alton, you know, this was unique in that I was 50 years of age.
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I didn't really want to start another congregation, to be honest with you.
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Um but I would walk the streets and I would pray and I said, God, I'll do whatever you want.
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I don't care what it is, but I would specifically ask him to put bread on the trail.
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Every day I'd say, Can you just put bread on the trail today?
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A little mana.
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And we'll just pick up the manna and do that, and we'll see what you build.
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And now he's I don't know, but I think I feel like this is our best story, what he has built with just day to day picking up a little piece of obedience and going, I think we're supposed to do that today.
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Um, I don't know, it's just been a cool thing to see what the creativity of God, not really our creativity, but what's the thing?
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Yeah, we're just faithfully following or picking up the manna, like you said.
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I I love that.
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Now, one of my favorite times connecting with you was over the book flesh and walking my life group leaders through this idea.
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You know, I'm a formary, I'm a former, you know, seminary professor and teacher at Bible school and those kind of things.
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And I really believe that in the Church of America we can overteach and under-reach.
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Um, and Jesus came, he did teach, teaching's not bad, but he lived this walk with the Father, abiding in the Spirit, and that's where the word becomes flesh.
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And so it wasn't just this like idea in a book, it was lived out.
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And that's what, again, I think that you you live what you write, which is what makes your writing flow easily.
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When we think about that that book flesh, um, how has that impacted?
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I mean, it's just it's just your story, but how have you seen that impact the church to get away from the Sunday focus and living this out Monday through Friday, picking up the manna every day?
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Yeah, I mean, the flesh was off uh John 1 14.
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Word became flesh and he made his dwelling among us, and so we perceive the glory of God.
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So the the whole idea of the book was that, you know, like back in those days, we were talking a lot about missional, you know, missional everything.
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Missional, if you think of it like a bicycle, missional is the back wheel.
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Uh, it's where the sprockets are, it's what propels you forward.
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But incarnational is the front tire, it's what uh what touches people first, what they first experience.
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It's the way of Jesus, his humanity, it's uh it's our posture, it's the way we talk, it's the way we look, it's it's how we speak, how we don't speak, how we wait, it's it's everything related to helping them see the face of God.
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So the fact that Jesus came in the flesh, we were able to go, oh, it's not like what I thought it was.
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Like God must be different because I ran into that dude.
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So when we live a missional incarnational life, we hopefully uh we don't come at people with a political bent or a or denominational bent.
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We come with uh the way that Jesus lived, and and that hopefully helps them to see who God really is.
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Yeah.
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Well, and something I've appreciated about you I wrestle with having no tribe, and you and I have talked about that, right?
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Where we really value this missional bent, but the opportunities are at the gym.
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They are at the coffee shop.
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They're not people coming to see Jesus at his dwelling place.
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We are his dwelling place and we are leaving, right?
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And so the best part of my Sunday gatherings is that we scatter, not that we gather.
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So what changes is you've seen it over decades now.
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This isn't a one-time thing, this isn't like a flash in the pan.
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What changes in our disciple-making culture when we move that context out of church and into the gym, into the coffee shop?
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Like what changes there?
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Well, just think about, I mean, again, I don't know what our problem is, but in America, we turn everything into like a math equation, um, especially discipleship.
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It's like if you go, okay, let's disciple somebody, then we we go to these weird compartments where we think about a weekly meeting or some Bible verses or whatever it is.
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But we don't disciple our kids that way.
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We disciple them as moms and dads, and we go every single day is an opportunity for probably five, six, twenty reps with them where they get to see the way we live and then we talk about things in time.
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So you would never, like in your family, go, hey kids, Thursday night's discipleship time, and you give them that hour.
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And no, I mean, every single thing they're going through, you're speaking into, you're asking the right questions.
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Um, I just I think we've got to begin to view disciple making like that.
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So when you're out in the world, it's just more reps in real life.
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It's not, you know, coming away from the world and then having a Bible study.
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It's right, it's talking in real time about things that they really care about in that moment.
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And I so I never go like, let's just, in fact, I have a little problem.
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We just go, let's make disciples and make disciples make disciples, because just the way we say that, it's like bam, bam, bam.
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That's not how discipleship works.
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It's a life and it's it's getting natural reps with people until God says we're done with those people.
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So and it does feel like it's two steps forward, seven steps back.
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It's not even like we want to say two steps forward, one step back, because then we're taking the hill.
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It does feel like with disciple making in my journey with men, it's like sometimes it feels way back and way sideways, but I'm not the Lord of the harvest, and so I'm just faithfully staying in it.
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And they're a lot more transparent with me at the pub than they are with the priest, right?
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Like this mentality of sacred, secular.
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Um I I I love that, whether it's at the ranch or at the bar or whatever that looks like for you.
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Yeah, where do you start with that?
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I also think, too, you know, I'm still like I always tell people, I've been walking with the Lord for almost 50 years, and I'm like 11% better.
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Like there's still there's still a lot of Hugh Halter that's not conformed to the image of Christ.
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And and there are days that I drive down the road and I'm begging God to send somebody to re-evangelize me, like help me to really believe again.
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So, again, disciple making, it's not it's not some guy on top fixing somebody on the bottom.
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It's like we're it's more directional.
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We're all going in this direction.
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So come be with me and I'll be with you, and we'll we'll kind of move our way towards Jesus together on this thing.
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Yeah.
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Well, and I think one of the things I've experienced in my walk with Jesus is that he's the only hero, and then we all just get to be limping along, following him.
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Something that that you've modeled well for many people that are anyone that's around you.
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Um, and we I remember giving all of our life group leaders, right, as we launched Vintage, everyone got a copy of Happy Hour, because it's trying to help them rethink their sacred secular divide and their their spaces that the front door of the church is not Vintage Grace or whatever church you know our DMH communities are in, the front door of the church is the front door of your house.
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Um, how have you seen fruit in helping people rethink their thinking?
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That it's like, no, the organic natural conversations, my home, hospitality is mission.
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Um yeah, what walk through some of that with me?
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Well, to me, that's the center of the cinnamon roll.
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So we've had been married almost 35 years.
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We've fixed and flipped a house together about every three years.
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We'd move into a new house.
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And we always with the kids, we go, okay, how do we make how do we get 50 people in here?
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So we would blow out walls, and it was always about getting people into the house.
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Um, and the power of that is I've I've always said the way to the soul, like we're we're always going for the soul, right?
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Right.
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The way to the soul is through the heart.
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But what seems to be the way to the heart is through the stomach.
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God's given, you know, there's not a lot of things that connect people.
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The only two that I can find that across the board always make some type of connection are music and food.
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And if uh if that's a natural rhythm of your life, whether it be a like every Sunday night was family meal time at the halter home, but all of my family kept inviting their friends.
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So family, you know, halter family night always meant everybody.
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Bring your friends, and our kids grew up learning that that's like the family of God is more important than our nuclear family, and hospitality becomes the entrance to that.
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I think I think it's a primary discipling tool for your kids as well.
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If you're eating with people together and they're they're listening and watching how that happens, they'll just end up being great people.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And they get a front row seat to people that have real questions and real conversations.
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Um, and some of the language that we've been using with DMH has not just been who are you inviting to your house, but looking for green shoots where people invite you to their house, right?
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Like live in such a way that they want you there.
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Yeah, not because no, they don't know why.
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I would argue it's the Imago Day shining out of you, right?
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Or you married well, like you and I, so they want your wife there, and then you just come along.
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But how to help people like really view that as like that's the mission field.
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So we always told our people keep inviting them until they invite you.
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But when they've when they do finally invite you, that's a sacred, like that means you've done good work.
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It means that they trust you even with their kids and their friends.
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Like when they when they trust you with their friends, you've been a good missionary.
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And I just feel like we have to change the paradigm, and that's the whole point of this podcast, right?
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How do we help people, every person at our churches, say disciples are made here where I live, work, and play.
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Of course, I want to make disciples on Sunday, but that's such a small fraction of the week, and it's not where they're made.
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Disciples are not made, they're made around the campfire, during happy hour.
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Um, and I just feel like we're seeing great fruit, and it's helpful to have guys literally two, three decades ahead of me, that are like, no, I I've done this in Portland, I've done this in Colorado, I'm doing this in Alton, Illinois.
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Um, I really view like what would it be like if the dwelling of God rested in us, and now imagine our city saturated with little followers of Christ called Hugh and Drew, right?
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Like that changes the city.
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How have you seen that in Alton?
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I mean, you've seen it in multiple cities now, but how are you seeing that right now?
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Like, even where you sit, I know conceptually God's placed you there as a missionary.
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Yeah, well, I mean, I'll just give you a story.
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This this is maybe the newest story.
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Just a couple months ago, a young girl that had a uh a business in our town asked if she could bring her business into our business.
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And we asked her why.
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She had a good following, and she said, I'm trying to figure out God, and I just thought it'd be good to be with you guys.
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And I said, I said, Chrissy, how did you even know that we were God people?
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And she said, Everybody knows that about you guys, but she goes, but you guys are not like normal Christians, there's something different about you.
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And she goes, I just feel like I need that in my life.
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So I feel like that's just an example.
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Like we just keep doing what we do.
00:16:42.960 --> 00:16:54.399
A lot of it's business forward, so we've got a bunch of different businesses in town again because our town didn't have a lot of what we have, and so we create spaces that people respected and loved and were thankful for.
00:16:54.480 --> 00:16:58.639
And so then they they start to, you know, a lot of people will come up and go, I Googled you.
00:16:58.799 --> 00:17:10.400
So they they pick up on things and um they meet other young missionaries in our in our movement, and they people have said, like, your buildings are amazing, what you guys do, but your people are amazing.
00:17:10.559 --> 00:17:19.200
And those are our young missionaries, and I feel like that's always the entrance in is whether or not people respect who you are in real life.
00:17:19.359 --> 00:17:23.599
That's and and honestly, we've never had to go after people.
00:17:23.680 --> 00:17:32.640
Um, they do come to us and they ask for lunch or 20 minutes or to share a coffee, and they just ask questions and something begins to move.
00:17:32.720 --> 00:17:37.759
And it's it's it's quite startling how easy it is if you do the groundwork.
00:17:37.920 --> 00:17:49.920
Um I feel like part of what I want my friends to hear, of course, is it is slow, but once you saturate a community with presence, it's a lot.
00:17:50.480 --> 00:17:51.039
It is a lot.
00:17:51.359 --> 00:17:57.119
And and I try to coach people hey, don't ask questions for people that they're not asking, right?
00:17:57.200 --> 00:18:06.079
Like I say that all the time because I grew up in the church and I was like, let me tell you about my Jesus, which on one level, cute, Drew, like zealous for Jesus, yay.
00:18:06.319 --> 00:18:08.960
But also they didn't care about your Jesus.
00:18:09.279 --> 00:18:13.119
Um, but if we live lives that create curiosity, right?
00:18:13.279 --> 00:18:20.160
Like I I'm a cancer dad, you've dealt with a son in such a way that you're like, this is a long obedience in the same direction.
00:18:20.319 --> 00:18:24.319
And my joy is not perfect, but it's not wavering based on my circumstances.
00:18:24.480 --> 00:18:26.079
That creates curiosity in people.
00:18:26.240 --> 00:18:31.599
They only get that if they work out with you, they only get that if they break bread with you, they only get that if they see you dad, right?
00:18:31.839 --> 00:18:41.759
Like, and I just I I love that reality, and something that we try to model then, of course, is the idea of like, don't answer questions people aren't asking, but live in such a way that they ask you first.
00:18:41.839 --> 00:18:42.240
Yeah, right.
00:18:42.480 --> 00:18:47.039
I usually try to come and give them get them give them less than what they're asking.
00:18:47.200 --> 00:18:51.359
Just be right on the one point that they care about, and then I whatever.
00:18:51.440 --> 00:18:54.799
I always go, hey, by the way, thanks for asking my thoughts on that.
00:18:55.200 --> 00:19:07.279
And and then they usually do, they're coming back, and uh even like you know, I did start like a discipleship with a bunch of young men, but it was after 12, 14 months in the CrossFit Gym.
00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:15.839
Right, and I just finally, when I knew that I had the respect of everybody, I just sent out an email that said, men, whiskey, fire, meat.
00:19:16.079 --> 00:19:20.559
And everybody I sent it to, they all came, about 25 guys.
00:19:20.799 --> 00:19:21.200
Wow.
00:19:21.359 --> 00:19:24.960
And so I don't send that email on the first month.
00:19:25.039 --> 00:19:25.759
They don't know me.
00:19:26.559 --> 00:19:34.799
But over that 12, 14 months, I would get to know their names and I would go, hey, uh, last week you told me about your boss and that little struggle you were having.
00:19:34.880 --> 00:19:36.319
How'd that did that how'd that go?
00:19:36.480 --> 00:19:37.599
Like, did you confront him?
00:19:37.759 --> 00:19:47.759
Did it so I just was always just moving the dial forward with the things that they were bringing up, and then eventually we're talking about Jesus with them because they asked for it.
00:19:48.079 --> 00:19:48.480
Yeah.
00:19:48.640 --> 00:19:53.039
And because everyone is trying to be happier tomorrow than they are today, they're trying to fill that God space hole.
00:19:53.200 --> 00:19:56.160
And so if you have him and he has you, that leaks out of you.
00:19:56.240 --> 00:19:59.920
Like it is, it feels like the Shekinah glory at the CrossFit Gym.
00:20:00.079 --> 00:20:06.880
Like, and if we're so focused on Sundays, then man, we're missing all the Holy Spirit's doing the majority of the week.
00:20:07.039 --> 00:20:11.519
And I feel like the language we like to use, then of course, is that you can belong before you believe.
00:20:11.680 --> 00:20:16.400
And of course I want you to believe, because you won't be happy apart from belief and trust and treasuring.
00:20:16.559 --> 00:20:18.079
But how do we we belong?
00:20:18.319 --> 00:20:21.279
And so you've done this now for again, like I said, decades.
00:20:21.359 --> 00:20:28.000
So, what is important for the everyday missionary that's listening today, not the pastor, the everyday son and daughter that's being sent.
00:20:28.240 --> 00:20:32.240
How do they think about building trust without being in a hurry to get there?
00:20:32.400 --> 00:20:35.039
But of course, that's their motivation for God's glory and their good.
00:20:35.200 --> 00:20:37.200
But how do they help just do the little things?
00:20:38.960 --> 00:20:42.880
Yeah, one simple thing is to ask God to show you where he is at work.
00:20:43.039 --> 00:20:47.599
So I don't ever presume that I know you know what's going to be going on during the day.
00:20:47.759 --> 00:20:49.920
So I do wake up every day and I give him permission.
00:20:50.000 --> 00:20:53.200
I say, you can interrupt my my schedule anytime you want.
00:20:53.440 --> 00:20:58.799
But when we're training the missionary way, we we use words like archaeology and artistry.
00:20:58.880 --> 00:21:05.759
So so dig, dig, dig around, find out what's broken, what's hurting, um, who's struggling.
00:21:05.920 --> 00:21:07.759
Um, that's the incarnational life.
00:21:07.839 --> 00:21:17.119
So get in there, you know, once you begin to realize who's hurting, what's wrong, what's broken, then try to craft an artistic response to that.
00:21:17.359 --> 00:21:20.640
So our town had no coffee shop for 50,000 people.
00:21:20.799 --> 00:21:26.960
So once we realized there was no place to gather, our response was to build a big living room for our city.
00:21:27.039 --> 00:21:31.599
Okay, so sometimes your responses are big and they're they take two years to do.
00:21:31.680 --> 00:21:41.359
And other times you move into a neighborhood and there's no street lights and the fences are down, and you go, well, we can at least let's go and fix that fence.
00:21:41.440 --> 00:21:43.839
And then people come up and go, that's been down for 30 years.
00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:44.720
Thank you for putting.
00:21:45.119 --> 00:21:46.720
So it doesn't matter what it is.
00:21:46.880 --> 00:21:51.039
It can be a small thing or a big thing, but just go, you know, dig around.
00:21:51.200 --> 00:21:56.799
Don't presume that you know, and don't just be weird and sit around and try to figure out how to talk to people.
00:21:57.359 --> 00:22:03.200
Start fixing things that are broken and That will lead to conversation, I think, in due time.
00:22:03.680 --> 00:22:03.920
Yeah.
00:22:04.079 --> 00:22:06.000
And it does feel like the ways of Jesus.
00:22:06.160 --> 00:22:09.039
And I want to memorize the words, I do, but I want to live his ways.
00:22:09.519 --> 00:22:11.279
Um, which it was, it was getting dirty.
00:22:11.359 --> 00:22:12.880
I mean, that was like the big criticism, right?
00:22:12.960 --> 00:22:14.240
Why do you hang out with all the sinners?
00:22:14.400 --> 00:22:20.079
Why do you I mean and he's like, because I can be with them and love them and ask good questions?
00:22:20.400 --> 00:22:28.960
Yeah, we have a we have a tagline here that uh it's not a tagline, it's a scripture out of Proverbs uh 11 10 where the righteous prosper, the city rejoices.
00:22:29.119 --> 00:22:36.240
So we would ask ourselves, are the things that we're doing day to day, are there things that that make people glad that we moved to this town?
00:22:36.480 --> 00:22:41.200
And if we left, would they be, you know, a little bit bummed out that we left?
00:22:41.440 --> 00:22:49.680
So those are some ways to think, like even in your own neighborhood, what are what are some things that would that our our neighborhood's concerned about, or the moms and dads?
00:22:49.759 --> 00:22:51.039
Like, what are some issues here?
00:22:51.200 --> 00:22:58.240
So we're we're about to start building a big family entertainment health park because 65% of our kids are fatherless.
00:22:58.400 --> 00:23:15.279
So, you know, again, sometimes it requires a big artistic response, and other times you just go, I know about that family, and I know those kids probably live in loneliness, and so the response is just when you see them to say, Hey, we got a cool backyard with the trampoline.
00:23:15.440 --> 00:23:21.279
If you know, if you ask your mom or dad if it's okay, you can use you know, just anything like that.
00:23:21.440 --> 00:23:27.119
Um, but you got to be looking around for what the real issues are that would cause people to be glad you're there.
00:23:27.440 --> 00:23:27.759
Yeah.
00:23:28.000 --> 00:23:31.839
And asking those questions, you know, because people are willing to share their felt needs.
00:23:32.240 --> 00:23:41.119
Um, you know, and if they just know that we care because we genuinely want them, and that is my our language, happier tomorrow than today, of course, Jesus I think is that answer.
00:23:41.200 --> 00:23:43.359
But it starts sometimes with just a cup of coffee.
00:23:43.519 --> 00:23:44.880
I I love the trampoline.
00:23:45.200 --> 00:23:52.720
Um, going in, and I always wrestled, even coming out of seminary, that mentality if your church left tomorrow, would anyone care or notice?
00:23:53.039 --> 00:23:55.359
And it still felt too like centralized.
00:23:55.599 --> 00:23:56.960
I love the way you just said that.
00:23:57.119 --> 00:23:59.920
If you left your neighborhood tomorrow, would anyone notice?
00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:06.240
Yeah, because I do feel like if our church left, I don't know if people would notice because we're not always trying to put our sticker on everything.
00:24:06.720 --> 00:24:07.279
You know what I mean?
00:24:07.359 --> 00:24:12.240
Like it's not about the collective family as much as the release family.
00:24:12.640 --> 00:24:17.279
And so I I man, I and I find so much joy when our people understand that.
00:24:17.359 --> 00:24:26.480
Like, that's why we we do missional grants as a church, and even DMH does missional grants all over with the hope that you see yourself and your trampoline as a sacred space.
00:24:26.720 --> 00:24:27.119
I love that.
00:24:27.200 --> 00:24:27.839
Um, it's great.
00:24:28.079 --> 00:24:29.279
What a cool, cool thing.
00:24:29.759 --> 00:24:33.519
So when you think about Alton, you've been here now for I can't believe it's been a decade.
00:24:33.599 --> 00:24:34.720
You said 10 years already.
00:24:34.880 --> 00:24:35.200
Yeah.
00:24:35.759 --> 00:24:38.799
So I think again, we met right before you moved, and so it's crazy.
00:24:38.880 --> 00:24:51.200
And you've been again, Portland, Denver, these are not easy places, but I'm sharing that more in the context of this loving, caring, living a missionary, living proof of loving God, that translates in every culture, right?
00:24:51.359 --> 00:24:56.559
Yeah, anything different, or people are people, same needs, same desires, no matter what.
00:24:56.720 --> 00:24:58.960
I mean, that that's what I feel like we see often.
00:24:59.279 --> 00:25:00.880
You might see some cultural differences.
00:25:01.119 --> 00:25:03.599
Portland, Oregon, it was easier to get people to the house.
00:25:03.759 --> 00:25:04.480
I don't know why.
00:25:04.559 --> 00:25:07.920
It was uh more west coast, a little bit more open.
00:25:08.079 --> 00:25:16.880
Uh a lot of the families were broken up already, so people were like, you know, Christmas, Easter, any holidays, we'd say, hey, if you don't have a place to go, come hang at the halters.
00:25:17.039 --> 00:25:19.599
It was always 50, 60, 100 people.
00:25:19.839 --> 00:25:24.640
Now we're in a Midwestern culture, families a little bit more intact, except in our town.
00:25:24.799 --> 00:25:30.240
Uh, people a little bit more reserved, so getting them to the houses might be a little bit, you know, less comfortable.
00:25:30.400 --> 00:25:33.839
So I think you do have to be aware of your cultural context.
00:25:34.079 --> 00:25:38.000
But um, I think other than that, the same issues always exist.
00:25:38.160 --> 00:25:54.799
If they if they like and respect you as a person, um, if they know you as a person, um, not as a political, like, don't put signs in your front yards and don't establish yourself as you know, there to stick up for God or stick up for your country.
00:25:54.880 --> 00:25:58.559
If you just be a normal person, I think that works anywhere.
00:25:58.720 --> 00:26:05.680
And if you have good food, it works like if you get crappy food, you know, don't buy your cheese at Costco in pre-made chunks.
00:26:05.759 --> 00:26:08.480
Like, get some real cheese, people are gonna like you, you know.
00:26:08.880 --> 00:26:09.279
I love it.
00:26:09.440 --> 00:26:09.839
I love it.
00:26:10.000 --> 00:26:13.759
Well, and even when you are painting, be the best dang painter that you can be.
00:26:13.839 --> 00:26:17.440
Yeah, because when I'm at your house painting, that creates conversation.
00:26:17.519 --> 00:26:24.079
Yeah, when I, you know, again, the the coffee, you know, your coffee shop isn't a crappy coffee shop on purpose.
00:26:24.319 --> 00:26:27.519
It's designed for good because we're trying to reflect the glory of God.
00:26:27.759 --> 00:26:28.880
Yeah, absolutely.
00:26:29.920 --> 00:26:36.480
Well, recently we had a family, you were out here, I don't know, seven or eight years ago, and you were talking about this new venture, right?
00:26:36.559 --> 00:26:37.920
Just what God was inviting you into.
00:26:38.079 --> 00:26:42.400
Every day you're waking up, surrendered to the spirit, manna from heaven, but also there's some big things as well.
00:26:42.640 --> 00:26:52.400
Um, lots has changed the last seven or eight years, but one of those things is not just what God's doing Alton, but this family was so inspired by going, oh, that's right, everything is a God thing.
00:26:52.559 --> 00:26:55.680
Uh they lived way away from our central location here.
00:26:55.759 --> 00:26:59.920
Um, and so they were like, look, we'll do watch parties for Sunday, but we don't, it's not about Sunday.
00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:02.480
And so they bought a coffee shop and just opened it up.
00:27:02.559 --> 00:27:07.359
And it's amazing to see how this translates Midwest, Far West, East.
00:27:07.599 --> 00:27:11.200
It's all about creating space and your business's mission.
00:27:11.279 --> 00:27:12.160
So you're a business owner.
00:27:12.240 --> 00:27:13.039
How many jobs you got?
00:27:13.200 --> 00:27:14.640
10, 11, 12, right?
00:27:14.799 --> 00:27:17.839
Um, but every one of those is a mission field.
00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:22.079
And so help me coach some of our business owners, our our workers.
00:27:22.319 --> 00:27:25.279
How do we view work as the mission place?
00:27:25.519 --> 00:27:30.480
Yeah, I I I always say business is not a means to the mission in many settings.
00:27:30.640 --> 00:27:32.240
Business is the mission, right?
00:27:32.960 --> 00:27:34.799
Um, and so I think you gotta see it like that.
00:27:34.880 --> 00:27:43.680
I think the key though with any business, it's it's always well, it's not even even if you don't have a business, everything's about building kingdom culture, you know.
00:27:43.759 --> 00:27:50.079
So, like the benefit of what I do here, we we don't try to hire Christians, we try to hire people that don't know God.
00:27:50.240 --> 00:27:53.920
But our managers are all little, you know, subversive missionaries.
00:27:54.079 --> 00:28:01.119
So we all set a culture together of kindness, and somebody's out of line as a staff, they don't get immediately fired.
00:28:01.279 --> 00:28:06.799
We all sit down and love on them and talk to them and go, hey, we want to call you to a different culture.
00:28:06.880 --> 00:28:10.319
And usually they're drawings, people like the kingdom, they really do.
00:28:10.559 --> 00:28:20.480
Um, so given enough time, if you just hold to that culture, they're eventually going to move towards it, um, or they're just they're gonna be actually offended by it.
00:28:20.720 --> 00:28:31.599
So I feel like that's the role of a business in a city is you just help build kingdom culture and and you know, again, change people's mind about what they think a Christian is.
00:28:32.240 --> 00:28:38.000
In our setting, you know, there's a lot of religious people that don't like us because we got a whiskey bar next to our coffee bar.
00:28:38.079 --> 00:28:48.000
They don't get it, you know, but the locals appreciate you know what we do and and all the different types of unique business things that we do, but it's mostly they they like our people.
00:28:48.240 --> 00:28:53.039
It's like a consistency of um concern and care.
00:28:53.279 --> 00:29:16.480
And we I mean we had a guy come in the other night with uh into our pizza uh microbrewery, and he had a bulletproof jacket on, and he was not doing well with drugs, and by the end of the night he's sharing his whole, you know, we thought he was basically gonna shoot up the joint, and our staff just locked in and ends up the guy actually had a real soft heart and they were able to love on him, and you know, it's just stuff like that.
00:29:16.559 --> 00:29:18.720
Uh just kind of happens in the business, right?
00:29:18.799 --> 00:29:21.759
It's not happening in the church, but it's happening in the business.
00:29:22.079 --> 00:29:23.519
Yeah, and I don't even mean that.
00:29:23.599 --> 00:29:24.400
I know it's not your heart.
00:29:24.480 --> 00:29:26.400
I don't mean that as a criticism to the church.
00:29:26.559 --> 00:29:28.720
I just want to equip the church to go.
00:29:29.119 --> 00:29:31.839
Um, the opportunities, I love the way you said earlier.
00:29:32.000 --> 00:29:34.799
Like, it's amazing how many times they're gonna ask questions.
00:29:34.880 --> 00:29:43.759
Like, I actually my schedule could be full of lunches with the yet to believe um because they know that we love them, we care about them, um, and we want that.
00:29:43.839 --> 00:29:53.119
But how powerful it'd be if we viewed the church as a collective scattering, not just gathering, um, to all these unique places where again, like you said, that guy's not going to vintage grace.
00:29:53.200 --> 00:29:54.640
He's not gonna show up on a Sunday.
00:29:54.799 --> 00:29:56.559
Um, but he will come to the bar.
00:29:56.720 --> 00:30:03.359
And so if we're there ready for him, what a huge opportunity to just be incarnational, Jesus with skin on, right?
00:30:03.599 --> 00:30:13.759
Yeah, we had even the other night, and this is with one of our pizza guys that, you know, I mean, he knows God, but he's he's never really like, as he would say, never been on mission.
00:30:13.920 --> 00:30:22.480
So he'd buy himself in the pizza joint the other night, and an adolescent from a from a Catholic orphanage that we've kind of we've all befriended.
00:30:22.559 --> 00:30:28.720
He came in and he had to share that he had just been raped at the orphanage, you know, and it was interesting.
00:30:28.960 --> 00:30:33.359
Our staff called because he's like, this is above my pay grade, but and we all went.
00:30:34.160 --> 00:30:44.480
But I just remember thinking that this kid, he thought the only place I can go to get help on this was to our pizza joint because of what our people had done.
00:30:44.640 --> 00:30:51.119
But it did also help disciple our staff person, it helped them realize that what they were doing was mission.
00:30:51.359 --> 00:30:59.039
So, I mean, everything related to disciple making, I just feel like it's better when it's done out there, not in here.
00:30:59.519 --> 00:31:00.319
Yeah, yeah.
00:31:00.559 --> 00:31:05.519
Well, and I just remember being a young high schooler going on our you know, Mexico missions trip.
00:31:05.599 --> 00:31:11.680
And the highlight for me was coming back after a good day of quote unquote work and then talking about where did you see God work?
00:31:11.839 --> 00:31:14.880
Like, what if we framed our home that way, right?
00:31:15.200 --> 00:31:16.799
That's what I know family dinners are for you.
00:31:16.960 --> 00:31:24.720
What if we framed our church gathering, our life groups, our missional spaces that every day it was this rhythm of God, what are you inviting me into?
00:31:24.880 --> 00:31:32.160
This surrender of the day, my eyes are open to see, but then the end of the day, this reflection of you you said 20 at one point with kids, right?
00:31:32.400 --> 00:31:33.200
20 moments.
00:31:33.279 --> 00:31:35.839
And if I get two of them, I feel like I crushed it, right?
00:31:35.920 --> 00:31:37.920
Like two for 20 feels like a dub.
00:31:38.160 --> 00:31:43.519
But just to reflect on those two, or even to reflect on those 18, how do you process that?
00:31:43.680 --> 00:31:52.000
Like, I'm trying to create a culture where that's a regular rhythm with my marriage, with my babies, and in our churches that we go and then we come together and hey, let's let's just talk.
00:31:52.079 --> 00:31:52.799
Let's debrief.
00:31:52.880 --> 00:31:54.000
How did the work week go?
00:31:54.160 --> 00:31:55.440
What was a kingdom moment?
00:31:55.519 --> 00:31:56.960
What was a Jesus fingerprint?
00:31:57.039 --> 00:31:58.240
What was an invitation?
00:31:58.400 --> 00:32:05.279
What are some things you've done that have helped people reflect after the fact and then actually preps them to go into the next one?
00:32:05.599 --> 00:32:13.440
Yeah, well, I mean, like with the situation I just brought up, I have not had time to debrief that with this staff person, but I know he works tomorrow.
00:32:13.519 --> 00:32:17.279
So I'm specifically gonna go on and go, hey, let's talk about that.
00:32:17.519 --> 00:32:20.000
And yeah, um, I've done that with my kids.
00:32:20.079 --> 00:32:29.039
You know, if we have a party and one of the one of the old guys gets drinking too much and gets a little obnoxious, and I have to take him out of our house and send them home and go home and sleep with them.
00:32:29.279 --> 00:32:34.079
Uh that's when I remember I talked with Allie about alcohol and she was 13 at the time, you know.
00:32:34.319 --> 00:32:41.680
So every situation, it's like, well, if the crap hit the fan or um or if it went great, then I'm gonna debrief it usually.
00:32:41.759 --> 00:32:43.200
Just it's almost like natural.
00:32:43.279 --> 00:32:47.440
Like, hey, that was awesome the other day when we were doing that together.
00:32:47.599 --> 00:32:51.519
So um I'd also say like I'd encourage folks to plan your week.
00:32:51.599 --> 00:32:53.519
Like you take ownership of your own life.
00:32:53.680 --> 00:33:00.880
So, you know, we would plan the family night, we would plan the big Bronco pizza party and telling everybody bring their friends.
00:33:01.039 --> 00:33:06.799
So if you put it on your calendar, generally uh unique opportunities will happen.
00:33:06.880 --> 00:33:13.440
If you if you just let weeks and weeks go by and you're waiting for like supernatural, a lot of times it doesn't.
00:33:13.519 --> 00:33:21.920
So I I would say plan what you can and then be available on those weird times where where God goes, hey, I know you're busy, but we need you over here.
00:33:22.079 --> 00:33:27.680
Like simmer down, it'll be okay, but I need you for a half hour over on this park bench.
00:33:27.759 --> 00:33:29.039
So yeah.
00:33:29.279 --> 00:33:38.880
Well, and I just feel like we're doing anyone a favor when that happens because we're helping them grow in their understanding of what does it mean to be incarnational, but also to receive.
00:33:39.039 --> 00:33:43.519
Like when I'm in a situation I don't have a clue what I'm doing, it's amazing the spirit shows up every time.
00:33:43.839 --> 00:33:48.480
And I might fumble, I might fail, I might, but again, there is really no failure when it's the spirit leading.
00:33:48.960 --> 00:33:52.799
And there's a freedom to that of being like, I don't have a clue what I'm doing.
00:33:52.960 --> 00:33:54.960
I'm moving to a new town, starting a new job.
00:33:55.119 --> 00:33:57.200
I mean, you've got so many different jobs you're starting.
00:33:57.359 --> 00:34:00.319
There's an excitement of discovery, there's a desperation.
00:34:00.480 --> 00:34:02.000
Um, I love that.
00:34:02.240 --> 00:34:04.799
Yeah, here's a little reminder maybe for everybody.
00:34:04.880 --> 00:34:09.199
Um, and to me, it lets it take all the pressure off this whole thing.
00:34:09.360 --> 00:34:14.639
Um, and that is that Jesus said he would build his church, so you don't have to try to build his church ever.
00:34:15.039 --> 00:34:22.880
He also said, I know you guys are going to struggle with trying to convince and convict people of sin, righteousness, and holiness, so I'll send the Holy Spirit to do that.
00:34:23.039 --> 00:34:23.360
Yeah.
00:34:23.679 --> 00:34:26.239
And then there's no scripture that says we build the kingdom.
00:34:26.320 --> 00:34:39.920
So when you don't have to build the church and you don't have to convince or convert people, and you and you can't build the kingdom, it's already there, then those are generally the three categories that usually get us all uptight and get our undies in a square knot.
00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:54.159
And if God just said, look, you don't do any of that, then what you do get to do is live your life and and just walk and say, God, I'm available and get after the stuff you love doing and know that God's going to breathe into it and stuff is gonna happen.
00:34:54.400 --> 00:34:59.920
So I always like tell would-be missionaries anywhere in the world, like, chill out, number one.
00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:04.639
Yeah, um, this is not, you know, people don't go to hell because we don't get to them in time.
00:35:04.800 --> 00:35:07.920
Jesus lived 30 years in the neighborhood and never said a word.
00:35:08.079 --> 00:35:14.400
So that teaches us like uh it ain't about the the timing issue or about franticness.
00:35:14.480 --> 00:35:20.960
This is about the father and his patient love for people, and it'll get done when it needs to get done.
00:35:21.119 --> 00:35:24.639
Um, so wait for him to lead for sure.
00:35:25.039 --> 00:35:26.880
When there's so much freedom to that.
00:35:26.960 --> 00:35:28.320
That's what you're describing, right?
00:35:28.480 --> 00:35:39.360
Which again, I I definitely missed a little bit in seminary and all of this idea of like, we got to do our apologetics training, we gotta always be ready to give an account, which is a true biblical verse.
00:35:39.440 --> 00:35:44.159
Like, we do, but man, I said ask people like, have you lived in such a way that people want you to give an account?
00:35:44.719 --> 00:35:44.960
Right?
00:35:45.119 --> 00:35:48.880
Like, what a cool opportunity when someone comes and says, Man, I'm broken.
00:35:49.039 --> 00:35:59.119
This is what my wife is saying about me, or man, this is what my dad didn't do, and he's left me, or this is the domestic abuse, and like these opportunities are literally in every one of our neighborhoods.
00:35:59.360 --> 00:36:03.280
I pray we see them, like I pray we're there with eyes open.
00:36:03.440 --> 00:36:11.039
Um, and I do, I love the freedom that it's just not about us, which some of us don't like because we wish it was, um, but we really don't.
00:36:11.360 --> 00:36:18.800
Like, we just one of my greatest, you know, the mistakes, the moments where I went, geez, halter, it's when I was moving too fast.
00:36:20.159 --> 00:36:21.920
And it was, you know, it's because I love people.
00:36:22.079 --> 00:36:25.039
I've always cared about people outside the faith.
00:36:25.199 --> 00:36:30.880
Um, but I think as I've gotten older, I I realize God loves them way more than I do.
00:36:31.039 --> 00:36:34.639
And he's, you know, he has he's always been a front band.
00:36:34.960 --> 00:36:41.599
He could have just pulled up and just told everybody exactly who he was, but there was timing issues, and he would send John the Baptist.
00:36:41.760 --> 00:36:43.679
Like, like, why waste all this time?
00:36:43.760 --> 00:36:52.159
But well, there's something he understands the psyche of people, and that there needs to be a build-up and uh kind of a tearing off of shackles.
00:36:52.320 --> 00:36:56.639
And so I just say just be a part of the long process that God's doing with everybody.
00:36:56.719 --> 00:37:02.320
And then, you know, if if he calls you to proclaim in a moment or to share your faith, then do it.
00:37:02.480 --> 00:37:05.360
You know, but if they're asking, you don't have to shrink back at all.
00:37:05.519 --> 00:37:09.760
You just be honest with them and tell them what um so I don't know.
00:37:09.840 --> 00:37:12.639
I just I think as I get older, it's way less pressure.
00:37:12.800 --> 00:37:14.960
I totally trust God with everybody.
00:37:15.119 --> 00:37:17.920
I'm happy to not talk for him now.
00:37:18.000 --> 00:37:19.360
I'm happy to not do anything.
00:37:19.440 --> 00:37:21.599
I like being by myself.
00:37:21.840 --> 00:37:23.440
I don't even like people anymore.
00:37:23.519 --> 00:37:24.800
I mean, that's that's the natural.
00:37:25.039 --> 00:37:30.960
So when if God wants to interrupt and pull me in, remember it's Hugh Halter has been crucified with Christ.
00:37:31.039 --> 00:37:35.280
So it's not Hugh Halter who gets to live his life, but it's Christ that wants to live in me.
00:37:35.360 --> 00:37:37.280
That's an amazing concept.
00:37:38.159 --> 00:37:42.559
So, you know, I just I wake up every day and go, look, if you don't need me, I'd be great.
00:37:42.800 --> 00:37:46.719
But I'll do if you need me all day for 12 hours today, I'm in.
00:37:46.880 --> 00:37:47.599
Whatever you want.
00:37:47.760 --> 00:37:48.159
Yeah.
00:37:48.400 --> 00:37:48.800
Yeah.
00:37:49.039 --> 00:37:56.559
Well, and again, I just I can't thank you enough for just how you've modeled that in season, out of season, hard seasons, good seasons.
00:37:56.719 --> 00:38:01.119
Um, it's so easy to just settle for, all right, I just want to get by.
00:38:01.280 --> 00:38:06.719
And faithfully, the Spirit's opening doors for you relationally, in your neighbors, at your work, where you play.
00:38:06.880 --> 00:38:09.280
Um, any final words for us as a community?
00:38:09.360 --> 00:38:10.639
We're we're fighting for our joy.
00:38:10.719 --> 00:38:14.800
We're trying to pray, like we really are trying to have a culture of prayer, of surrender every morning.
00:38:14.880 --> 00:38:16.159
God, what do you have for us?
00:38:16.320 --> 00:38:17.920
Um, any final words?
00:38:18.239 --> 00:38:20.239
Surrender, buy your underwear, what else?
00:38:20.480 --> 00:38:31.199
I'd say walk with your eyes open in the morning early, take a little five minute, and just invite God to interrupt your day and ask him to put bread on the trail.
00:38:31.360 --> 00:38:32.639
And just so good.
00:38:32.960 --> 00:38:36.719
That's don't go past that and see what he builds out in your life.
00:38:37.280 --> 00:38:38.000
Cool, cool.
00:38:38.079 --> 00:38:42.719
Well, it's fun, like I said, for us as a church, as an organization, from afar, as a little brother.
00:38:42.880 --> 00:38:44.159
Thanks for not just leading.
00:38:44.239 --> 00:38:45.920
I appreciate the way you lead, but you live.
00:38:46.000 --> 00:38:47.360
That is your your life.
00:38:47.440 --> 00:38:49.119
Every book you've written has pointed to that.
00:38:49.199 --> 00:38:52.239
We'll put those in the show notes, just ways to get connected.
00:38:52.320 --> 00:39:04.320
Um, and I want to encourage our our DMH community, we're gonna dive into that first side of the diamond, which again, it's not a playbook, it's just a pathway, which is exactly what Hugh said without knowing it, but it's identified to be a culture of praying.
00:39:04.480 --> 00:39:08.639
I'm just watching what are you, spirit, doing, as we live as everyday missionaries?
00:39:08.719 --> 00:39:10.880
Because the harvest is plentiful and the labors are few.
00:39:10.960 --> 00:39:15.760
I pray that's not true of Hugh, of Drew, or of you, because it's happening everywhere that you live, work, and play.
00:39:15.840 --> 00:39:16.719
Thanks for being with us, guys.
00:39:17.360 --> 00:39:17.760
Love you.
00:39:17.920 --> 00:39:18.320
Take care.
00:00:11.359 --> 00:00:14.160
Hey guys, well, welcome back to the Disciples Made Here podcast.
00:00:14.240 --> 00:00:19.280
I'm Drew Sodostrom, and man, it's been a gift to just journey with all of you over these last couple of months.
00:00:19.440 --> 00:00:28.559
Thank you for the way that you're fighting for your joy in Jesus, but doing it as a community with the hope that each of us would live out our calling as a sent one, a son, a daughter, truly deployed.
00:00:28.640 --> 00:00:30.800
And so just a quick reminder where we've been.
00:00:31.199 --> 00:00:42.880
On our podcast last week, we looked at the woman at the well and how Jesus models this really this pathway of engaging in conversation and normal day life, pointing us to follow him to the joy that he offers, and then actually living that out.
00:00:42.960 --> 00:00:43.759
And so today's fun.
00:00:43.840 --> 00:00:45.200
It's one of our guest episodes.
00:00:45.439 --> 00:00:51.840
Um, as we prepare to walk through the disciples making diamonds, some of these ideas and concepts will be pulling apart over the next really month.
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It's because of guys like Hugh.
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Uh, I would consider Hugh a big brother.
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Hugh, I don't know if you remember, I met you at an EFCA gathering of all places.
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Really, the year that we launched vintage, and you were not just putting words to my vision, because vision is just words on paper unless it's lived out.
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You lived it.
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And I'm like, Hugh's who I want to be when I grow up.
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We were just talking about CrossFit.
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I'll never be as strong as Hugh, but I want to follow as faithfully as you, man.
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And so I just want to start today by introducing you to my friends with Disciples Made Here, but also by just saying thank you.
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Not just the way that you lead, but more so the way that you follow, uh, the way that you paint houses and be a dad and the way you live as a husband, your brokenness.
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Um, but God's goodness shines through you to me.
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You are a missionary.
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Um, and I am just so, so dang grateful for you, brother.
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So thanks for being here, man.
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Yeah, just keep going.
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That was sounding great.
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You should just five weeks.
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That's the only kind of thing.
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And I could I could go on and on because I say vision's caught not taught, and I've caught part of it from you.
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Whatever.
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Yep, yep.
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So before we get into like just some questions I threw at you earlier, uh just tell us your story.
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Like, I know part of your story.
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Right now you're out in Alton, but there were decades before that led you to this point.
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Give me some big steps to how you got to Alton today, but where have you come from to get you where you are today?
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Yeah, big steps are uh Portland, Oregon to Denver to Alton.
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Portland uh was where I was doing inner city kind of youth ministry with Youth for Christ about 10 years, which led to our first church plant there.
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Um, but it was it was not a normal church plant.
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I was a house painter.
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Um, you know, we didn't take any money from it, so I made my income on the outside.
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And it was mostly just uh a lot of evangelism, and then just trying to to give people a community to be a part of the the backstory behind that was our son Ryan uh had really severe epilepsy, so we were it was hard to leave the house.
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That's why we did most of what we did out of the house and out of the neighborhood.
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Um, you know, driving the minivan to church just wasn't an option for us, and right.
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So, really, it was uh my wife and I just trying to learn how to live like missionaries right where we were, and that went good.
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And then we eventually moved to Denver uh to try to do it more intentionally.
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We we decided to start more of a missionary movement, we thought it wasn't really a let's start one church, let's just try to teach people how to live like we live.
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And that ended up being a story called The Tangible Kingdom that ended up traveling around the world and got me traveling.
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But it it was, you know, it wasn't rocket science, it was just individual people that work normal jobs that um would take a chunk of their neighborhood or a need or something that really captured their heart, and they would build a missionary community around that.
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And so we built that network up to 20 some uh kind of communities around the Denver Metroplex and just basically trying to make the kingdom tangible to people and then letting them respond to it.
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That was kind of the evangelistic discipleship process is you live in such a way that people would go, hey, uh I would love to do lunch with you, you know.
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So we would never go after anybody, we just waited for them to come and ask us to do something.
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So um that was 15, 14 years, 15 years of that.
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Um yeah, and then we found an assisted living center for our son out in this little Midwestern town just north of St.
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Louis called Alton, Illinois, and never thought we would leave Denver and move uh to this spot.
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Um, but I always say our son's disability uh caused him to be the spiritual patriarch of our whole family.
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So he taught us how to live as missionaries.
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He also got our entire family, my two adult daughters and their husbands, uh, to all come out here with us about 10 years ago with the idea of just trying to do something to help the city.
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It's a very impoverished area.
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Average family income is about 20,000, uh sort of half black, half-white context.
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But we literally didn't know what we were gonna do.
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We just felt like God called us on mission number three, and now we've got five grandkids and we've all settled here, and it appears as though we are stuck here forever.
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So that's kind of the journey.
00:05:11.120 --> 00:05:11.360
Yeah.
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Well, and I love it because as I've walked with you from a distance every step of the way, you're just simply saying, I'm a son and a sent one, and you've not gone to easy-to-reach places.
00:05:21.040 --> 00:05:23.360
Like you've gone where God's opened doors and called you.
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You're never looking at the next thing, you're always just right here, right now.
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And it feels like there's plenty for you to do every day of your life.
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Um but that's where your faithfulness is just something that I, again, I'm encouraged by, I'm inspired by.
00:05:35.759 --> 00:05:38.720
Um, in hard times and easy times, there's no such thing as easy times.
00:05:38.800 --> 00:05:42.160
It feels like everything you've done has been hard, but you've also said it's worth it.
00:05:42.399 --> 00:05:46.560
Yeah, the uh kind of the undercurrent has always been that little suffering element with my son.
00:05:46.639 --> 00:05:53.360
You know, I mean, that was uh one hour of sleep a night for me uh because I would take the night duty and then Cheryl would take him during the day.
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And yeah, it was kind of I don't looking back, I don't know how we got through, but it I always just go the Lord knows what he's doing.
00:06:00.639 --> 00:06:06.319
Um, I don't think I would be the person I am without that constant sort of undercurrent of suffering.
00:06:06.639 --> 00:06:08.000
Uh it changed who I was.
00:06:08.160 --> 00:06:10.959
I think it made me a better person in general.
00:06:11.040 --> 00:06:21.120
Um, my wife didn't need that, she was already already pretty great, but um yeah, when we got to Alton, you know, this was unique in that I was 50 years of age.
00:06:21.279 --> 00:06:24.639
I didn't really want to start another congregation, to be honest with you.
00:06:24.959 --> 00:06:30.160
Um but I would walk the streets and I would pray and I said, God, I'll do whatever you want.
00:06:30.240 --> 00:06:35.120
I don't care what it is, but I would specifically ask him to put bread on the trail.
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Every day I'd say, Can you just put bread on the trail today?
00:06:37.839 --> 00:06:38.879
A little mana.
00:06:39.439 --> 00:06:43.600
And we'll just pick up the manna and do that, and we'll see what you build.
00:06:43.759 --> 00:06:56.319
And now he's I don't know, but I think I feel like this is our best story, what he has built with just day to day picking up a little piece of obedience and going, I think we're supposed to do that today.
00:06:56.480 --> 00:07:03.600
Um, I don't know, it's just been a cool thing to see what the creativity of God, not really our creativity, but what's the thing?
00:07:03.759 --> 00:07:06.319
Yeah, we're just faithfully following or picking up the manna, like you said.
00:07:06.399 --> 00:07:06.959
I I love that.
00:07:07.199 --> 00:07:13.120
Now, one of my favorite times connecting with you was over the book flesh and walking my life group leaders through this idea.
00:07:13.279 --> 00:07:18.639
You know, I'm a formary, I'm a former, you know, seminary professor and teacher at Bible school and those kind of things.
00:07:18.800 --> 00:07:23.279
And I really believe that in the Church of America we can overteach and under-reach.
00:07:23.680 --> 00:07:32.079
Um, and Jesus came, he did teach, teaching's not bad, but he lived this walk with the Father, abiding in the Spirit, and that's where the word becomes flesh.
00:07:32.160 --> 00:07:35.759
And so it wasn't just this like idea in a book, it was lived out.
00:07:35.839 --> 00:07:40.560
And that's what, again, I think that you you live what you write, which is what makes your writing flow easily.
00:07:40.720 --> 00:07:44.879
When we think about that that book flesh, um, how has that impacted?
00:07:44.959 --> 00:07:52.720
I mean, it's just it's just your story, but how have you seen that impact the church to get away from the Sunday focus and living this out Monday through Friday, picking up the manna every day?
00:07:52.959 --> 00:07:55.759
Yeah, I mean, the flesh was off uh John 1 14.
00:07:56.000 --> 00:08:00.399
Word became flesh and he made his dwelling among us, and so we perceive the glory of God.
00:08:00.560 --> 00:08:07.519
So the the whole idea of the book was that, you know, like back in those days, we were talking a lot about missional, you know, missional everything.
00:08:07.680 --> 00:08:11.680
Missional, if you think of it like a bicycle, missional is the back wheel.
00:08:11.759 --> 00:08:15.199
Uh, it's where the sprockets are, it's what propels you forward.
00:08:15.519 --> 00:08:22.160
But incarnational is the front tire, it's what uh what touches people first, what they first experience.
00:08:22.399 --> 00:08:37.200
It's the way of Jesus, his humanity, it's uh it's our posture, it's the way we talk, it's the way we look, it's it's how we speak, how we don't speak, how we wait, it's it's everything related to helping them see the face of God.
00:08:37.440 --> 00:08:42.559
So the fact that Jesus came in the flesh, we were able to go, oh, it's not like what I thought it was.
00:08:42.639 --> 00:08:45.759
Like God must be different because I ran into that dude.
00:08:45.919 --> 00:08:55.600
So when we live a missional incarnational life, we hopefully uh we don't come at people with a political bent or a or denominational bent.
00:08:55.679 --> 00:09:01.840
We come with uh the way that Jesus lived, and and that hopefully helps them to see who God really is.
00:09:02.320 --> 00:09:02.559
Yeah.
00:09:02.639 --> 00:09:07.519
Well, and something I've appreciated about you I wrestle with having no tribe, and you and I have talked about that, right?
00:09:07.759 --> 00:09:13.440
Where we really value this missional bent, but the opportunities are at the gym.
00:09:13.519 --> 00:09:14.799
They are at the coffee shop.
00:09:15.120 --> 00:09:18.799
They're not people coming to see Jesus at his dwelling place.
00:09:19.120 --> 00:09:21.440
We are his dwelling place and we are leaving, right?
00:09:21.519 --> 00:09:25.120
And so the best part of my Sunday gatherings is that we scatter, not that we gather.
00:09:25.279 --> 00:09:28.559
So what changes is you've seen it over decades now.
00:09:28.720 --> 00:09:31.200
This isn't a one-time thing, this isn't like a flash in the pan.
00:09:31.279 --> 00:09:37.919
What changes in our disciple-making culture when we move that context out of church and into the gym, into the coffee shop?
00:09:38.080 --> 00:09:39.200
Like what changes there?
00:09:39.600 --> 00:09:48.480
Well, just think about, I mean, again, I don't know what our problem is, but in America, we turn everything into like a math equation, um, especially discipleship.
00:09:48.639 --> 00:09:57.519
It's like if you go, okay, let's disciple somebody, then we we go to these weird compartments where we think about a weekly meeting or some Bible verses or whatever it is.
00:09:57.679 --> 00:09:59.679
But we don't disciple our kids that way.
00:09:59.759 --> 00:10:12.879
We disciple them as moms and dads, and we go every single day is an opportunity for probably five, six, twenty reps with them where they get to see the way we live and then we talk about things in time.
00:10:13.120 --> 00:10:19.360
So you would never, like in your family, go, hey kids, Thursday night's discipleship time, and you give them that hour.
00:10:19.440 --> 00:10:25.039
And no, I mean, every single thing they're going through, you're speaking into, you're asking the right questions.
00:10:25.200 --> 00:10:29.519
Um, I just I think we've got to begin to view disciple making like that.
00:10:29.600 --> 00:10:34.000
So when you're out in the world, it's just more reps in real life.
00:10:34.159 --> 00:10:37.840
It's not, you know, coming away from the world and then having a Bible study.
00:10:37.919 --> 00:10:43.039
It's right, it's talking in real time about things that they really care about in that moment.
00:10:43.200 --> 00:10:47.840
And I so I never go like, let's just, in fact, I have a little problem.
00:10:48.000 --> 00:10:53.840
We just go, let's make disciples and make disciples make disciples, because just the way we say that, it's like bam, bam, bam.
00:10:54.000 --> 00:10:55.600
That's not how discipleship works.
00:10:55.679 --> 00:11:03.440
It's a life and it's it's getting natural reps with people until God says we're done with those people.
00:11:03.679 --> 00:11:07.360
So and it does feel like it's two steps forward, seven steps back.
00:11:07.440 --> 00:11:11.600
It's not even like we want to say two steps forward, one step back, because then we're taking the hill.
00:11:11.840 --> 00:11:21.519
It does feel like with disciple making in my journey with men, it's like sometimes it feels way back and way sideways, but I'm not the Lord of the harvest, and so I'm just faithfully staying in it.
00:11:21.600 --> 00:11:26.080
And they're a lot more transparent with me at the pub than they are with the priest, right?
00:11:26.159 --> 00:11:28.799
Like this mentality of sacred, secular.
00:11:28.960 --> 00:11:33.679
Um I I I love that, whether it's at the ranch or at the bar or whatever that looks like for you.
00:11:33.840 --> 00:11:34.960
Yeah, where do you start with that?
00:11:35.759 --> 00:11:45.360
I also think, too, you know, I'm still like I always tell people, I've been walking with the Lord for almost 50 years, and I'm like 11% better.
00:11:45.519 --> 00:11:50.000
Like there's still there's still a lot of Hugh Halter that's not conformed to the image of Christ.
00:11:50.080 --> 00:11:57.679
And and there are days that I drive down the road and I'm begging God to send somebody to re-evangelize me, like help me to really believe again.
00:11:57.840 --> 00:12:03.440
So, again, disciple making, it's not it's not some guy on top fixing somebody on the bottom.
00:12:03.600 --> 00:12:06.240
It's like we're it's more directional.
00:12:06.320 --> 00:12:07.679
We're all going in this direction.
00:12:07.759 --> 00:12:15.360
So come be with me and I'll be with you, and we'll we'll kind of move our way towards Jesus together on this thing.
00:12:15.600 --> 00:12:15.919
Yeah.
00:12:16.000 --> 00:12:24.639
Well, and I think one of the things I've experienced in my walk with Jesus is that he's the only hero, and then we all just get to be limping along, following him.
00:12:25.919 --> 00:12:29.919
Something that that you've modeled well for many people that are anyone that's around you.
00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:48.480
Um, and we I remember giving all of our life group leaders, right, as we launched Vintage, everyone got a copy of Happy Hour, because it's trying to help them rethink their sacred secular divide and their their spaces that the front door of the church is not Vintage Grace or whatever church you know our DMH communities are in, the front door of the church is the front door of your house.
00:12:48.639 --> 00:12:52.240
Um, how have you seen fruit in helping people rethink their thinking?
00:12:52.320 --> 00:12:57.919
That it's like, no, the organic natural conversations, my home, hospitality is mission.
00:12:58.320 --> 00:13:00.480
Um yeah, what walk through some of that with me?
00:13:00.720 --> 00:13:03.279
Well, to me, that's the center of the cinnamon roll.
00:13:03.360 --> 00:13:06.320
So we've had been married almost 35 years.
00:13:06.480 --> 00:13:09.840
We've fixed and flipped a house together about every three years.
00:13:09.919 --> 00:13:11.679
We'd move into a new house.
00:13:11.919 --> 00:13:16.639
And we always with the kids, we go, okay, how do we make how do we get 50 people in here?
00:13:16.720 --> 00:13:21.679
So we would blow out walls, and it was always about getting people into the house.
00:13:21.840 --> 00:13:28.080
Um, and the power of that is I've I've always said the way to the soul, like we're we're always going for the soul, right?
00:13:28.240 --> 00:13:28.480
Right.
00:13:28.720 --> 00:13:31.279
The way to the soul is through the heart.
00:13:31.519 --> 00:13:34.480
But what seems to be the way to the heart is through the stomach.
00:13:34.720 --> 00:13:37.919
God's given, you know, there's not a lot of things that connect people.
00:13:38.159 --> 00:13:44.639
The only two that I can find that across the board always make some type of connection are music and food.
00:13:45.120 --> 00:13:56.000
And if uh if that's a natural rhythm of your life, whether it be a like every Sunday night was family meal time at the halter home, but all of my family kept inviting their friends.
00:13:56.080 --> 00:13:59.679
So family, you know, halter family night always meant everybody.
00:13:59.840 --> 00:14:10.399
Bring your friends, and our kids grew up learning that that's like the family of God is more important than our nuclear family, and hospitality becomes the entrance to that.
00:14:10.559 --> 00:14:14.080
I think I think it's a primary discipling tool for your kids as well.
00:14:14.159 --> 00:14:20.799
If you're eating with people together and they're they're listening and watching how that happens, they'll just end up being great people.
00:14:21.120 --> 00:14:21.519
Yeah.
00:14:21.759 --> 00:14:21.919
Yeah.
00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:26.960
And they get a front row seat to people that have real questions and real conversations.
00:14:27.120 --> 00:14:35.840
Um, and some of the language that we've been using with DMH has not just been who are you inviting to your house, but looking for green shoots where people invite you to their house, right?
00:14:36.080 --> 00:14:39.840
Like live in such a way that they want you there.
00:14:39.919 --> 00:14:42.320
Yeah, not because no, they don't know why.
00:14:42.480 --> 00:14:45.279
I would argue it's the Imago Day shining out of you, right?
00:14:45.600 --> 00:14:49.120
Or you married well, like you and I, so they want your wife there, and then you just come along.
00:14:49.440 --> 00:14:53.440
But how to help people like really view that as like that's the mission field.
00:14:53.919 --> 00:14:57.519
So we always told our people keep inviting them until they invite you.
00:14:57.600 --> 00:15:02.639
But when they've when they do finally invite you, that's a sacred, like that means you've done good work.
00:15:02.799 --> 00:15:06.080
It means that they trust you even with their kids and their friends.
00:15:06.240 --> 00:15:10.720
Like when they when they trust you with their friends, you've been a good missionary.
00:15:11.519 --> 00:15:15.279
And I just feel like we have to change the paradigm, and that's the whole point of this podcast, right?
00:15:15.440 --> 00:15:21.120
How do we help people, every person at our churches, say disciples are made here where I live, work, and play.
00:15:21.360 --> 00:15:26.159
Of course, I want to make disciples on Sunday, but that's such a small fraction of the week, and it's not where they're made.
00:15:26.399 --> 00:15:30.879
Disciples are not made, they're made around the campfire, during happy hour.
00:15:31.039 --> 00:15:40.639
Um, and I just feel like we're seeing great fruit, and it's helpful to have guys literally two, three decades ahead of me, that are like, no, I I've done this in Portland, I've done this in Colorado, I'm doing this in Alton, Illinois.
00:15:40.799 --> 00:15:51.279
Um, I really view like what would it be like if the dwelling of God rested in us, and now imagine our city saturated with little followers of Christ called Hugh and Drew, right?
00:15:51.440 --> 00:15:53.120
Like that changes the city.
00:15:53.200 --> 00:15:54.480
How have you seen that in Alton?
00:15:54.720 --> 00:15:57.919
I mean, you've seen it in multiple cities now, but how are you seeing that right now?
00:15:58.000 --> 00:16:02.480
Like, even where you sit, I know conceptually God's placed you there as a missionary.
00:16:02.720 --> 00:16:05.919
Yeah, well, I mean, I'll just give you a story.
00:16:06.080 --> 00:16:08.320
This this is maybe the newest story.
00:16:08.399 --> 00:16:16.480
Just a couple months ago, a young girl that had a uh a business in our town asked if she could bring her business into our business.
00:16:16.639 --> 00:16:18.399
And we asked her why.
00:16:18.559 --> 00:16:24.559
She had a good following, and she said, I'm trying to figure out God, and I just thought it'd be good to be with you guys.
00:16:24.720 --> 00:16:29.039
And I said, I said, Chrissy, how did you even know that we were God people?
00:16:29.600 --> 00:16:36.720
And she said, Everybody knows that about you guys, but she goes, but you guys are not like normal Christians, there's something different about you.
00:16:36.799 --> 00:16:39.120
And she goes, I just feel like I need that in my life.
00:16:39.279 --> 00:16:41.440
So I feel like that's just an example.
00:16:41.519 --> 00:16:42.879
Like we just keep doing what we do.
00:16:42.960 --> 00:16:54.399
A lot of it's business forward, so we've got a bunch of different businesses in town again because our town didn't have a lot of what we have, and so we create spaces that people respected and loved and were thankful for.
00:16:54.480 --> 00:16:58.639
And so then they they start to, you know, a lot of people will come up and go, I Googled you.
00:16:58.799 --> 00:17:10.400
So they they pick up on things and um they meet other young missionaries in our in our movement, and they people have said, like, your buildings are amazing, what you guys do, but your people are amazing.
00:17:10.559 --> 00:17:19.200
And those are our young missionaries, and I feel like that's always the entrance in is whether or not people respect who you are in real life.
00:17:19.359 --> 00:17:23.599
That's and and honestly, we've never had to go after people.
00:17:23.680 --> 00:17:32.640
Um, they do come to us and they ask for lunch or 20 minutes or to share a coffee, and they just ask questions and something begins to move.
00:17:32.720 --> 00:17:37.759
And it's it's it's quite startling how easy it is if you do the groundwork.
00:17:37.920 --> 00:17:49.920
Um I feel like part of what I want my friends to hear, of course, is it is slow, but once you saturate a community with presence, it's a lot.
00:17:50.480 --> 00:17:51.039
It is a lot.
00:17:51.359 --> 00:17:57.119
And and I try to coach people hey, don't ask questions for people that they're not asking, right?
00:17:57.200 --> 00:18:06.079
Like I say that all the time because I grew up in the church and I was like, let me tell you about my Jesus, which on one level, cute, Drew, like zealous for Jesus, yay.
00:18:06.319 --> 00:18:08.960
But also they didn't care about your Jesus.
00:18:09.279 --> 00:18:13.119
Um, but if we live lives that create curiosity, right?
00:18:13.279 --> 00:18:20.160
Like I I'm a cancer dad, you've dealt with a son in such a way that you're like, this is a long obedience in the same direction.
00:18:20.319 --> 00:18:24.319
And my joy is not perfect, but it's not wavering based on my circumstances.
00:18:24.480 --> 00:18:26.079
That creates curiosity in people.
00:18:26.240 --> 00:18:31.599
They only get that if they work out with you, they only get that if they break bread with you, they only get that if they see you dad, right?
00:18:31.839 --> 00:18:41.759
Like, and I just I I love that reality, and something that we try to model then, of course, is the idea of like, don't answer questions people aren't asking, but live in such a way that they ask you first.
00:18:41.839 --> 00:18:42.240
Yeah, right.
00:18:42.480 --> 00:18:47.039
I usually try to come and give them get them give them less than what they're asking.
00:18:47.200 --> 00:18:51.359
Just be right on the one point that they care about, and then I whatever.
00:18:51.440 --> 00:18:54.799
I always go, hey, by the way, thanks for asking my thoughts on that.
00:18:55.200 --> 00:19:07.279
And and then they usually do, they're coming back, and uh even like you know, I did start like a discipleship with a bunch of young men, but it was after 12, 14 months in the CrossFit Gym.
00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:15.839
Right, and I just finally, when I knew that I had the respect of everybody, I just sent out an email that said, men, whiskey, fire, meat.
00:19:16.079 --> 00:19:20.559
And everybody I sent it to, they all came, about 25 guys.
00:19:20.799 --> 00:19:21.200
Wow.
00:19:21.359 --> 00:19:24.960
And so I don't send that email on the first month.
00:19:25.039 --> 00:19:25.759
They don't know me.
00:19:26.559 --> 00:19:34.799
But over that 12, 14 months, I would get to know their names and I would go, hey, uh, last week you told me about your boss and that little struggle you were having.
00:19:34.880 --> 00:19:36.319
How'd that did that how'd that go?
00:19:36.480 --> 00:19:37.599
Like, did you confront him?
00:19:37.759 --> 00:19:47.759
Did it so I just was always just moving the dial forward with the things that they were bringing up, and then eventually we're talking about Jesus with them because they asked for it.
00:19:48.079 --> 00:19:48.480
Yeah.
00:19:48.640 --> 00:19:53.039
And because everyone is trying to be happier tomorrow than they are today, they're trying to fill that God space hole.
00:19:53.200 --> 00:19:56.160
And so if you have him and he has you, that leaks out of you.
00:19:56.240 --> 00:19:59.920
Like it is, it feels like the Shekinah glory at the CrossFit Gym.
00:20:00.079 --> 00:20:06.880
Like, and if we're so focused on Sundays, then man, we're missing all the Holy Spirit's doing the majority of the week.
00:20:07.039 --> 00:20:11.519
And I feel like the language we like to use, then of course, is that you can belong before you believe.
00:20:11.680 --> 00:20:16.400
And of course I want you to believe, because you won't be happy apart from belief and trust and treasuring.
00:20:16.559 --> 00:20:18.079
But how do we we belong?
00:20:18.319 --> 00:20:21.279
And so you've done this now for again, like I said, decades.
00:20:21.359 --> 00:20:28.000
So, what is important for the everyday missionary that's listening today, not the pastor, the everyday son and daughter that's being sent.
00:20:28.240 --> 00:20:32.240
How do they think about building trust without being in a hurry to get there?
00:20:32.400 --> 00:20:35.039
But of course, that's their motivation for God's glory and their good.
00:20:35.200 --> 00:20:37.200
But how do they help just do the little things?
00:20:38.960 --> 00:20:42.880
Yeah, one simple thing is to ask God to show you where he is at work.
00:20:43.039 --> 00:20:47.599
So I don't ever presume that I know you know what's going to be going on during the day.
00:20:47.759 --> 00:20:49.920
So I do wake up every day and I give him permission.
00:20:50.000 --> 00:20:53.200
I say, you can interrupt my my schedule anytime you want.
00:20:53.440 --> 00:20:58.799
But when we're training the missionary way, we we use words like archaeology and artistry.
00:20:58.880 --> 00:21:05.759
So so dig, dig, dig around, find out what's broken, what's hurting, um, who's struggling.
00:21:05.920 --> 00:21:07.759
Um, that's the incarnational life.
00:21:07.839 --> 00:21:17.119
So get in there, you know, once you begin to realize who's hurting, what's wrong, what's broken, then try to craft an artistic response to that.
00:21:17.359 --> 00:21:20.640
So our town had no coffee shop for 50,000 people.
00:21:20.799 --> 00:21:26.960
So once we realized there was no place to gather, our response was to build a big living room for our city.
00:21:27.039 --> 00:21:31.599
Okay, so sometimes your responses are big and they're they take two years to do.
00:21:31.680 --> 00:21:41.359
And other times you move into a neighborhood and there's no street lights and the fences are down, and you go, well, we can at least let's go and fix that fence.
00:21:41.440 --> 00:21:43.839
And then people come up and go, that's been down for 30 years.
00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:44.720
Thank you for putting.
00:21:45.119 --> 00:21:46.720
So it doesn't matter what it is.
00:21:46.880 --> 00:21:51.039
It can be a small thing or a big thing, but just go, you know, dig around.
00:21:51.200 --> 00:21:56.799
Don't presume that you know, and don't just be weird and sit around and try to figure out how to talk to people.
00:21:57.359 --> 00:22:03.200
Start fixing things that are broken and That will lead to conversation, I think, in due time.
00:22:03.680 --> 00:22:03.920
Yeah.
00:22:04.079 --> 00:22:06.000
And it does feel like the ways of Jesus.
00:22:06.160 --> 00:22:09.039
And I want to memorize the words, I do, but I want to live his ways.
00:22:09.519 --> 00:22:11.279
Um, which it was, it was getting dirty.
00:22:11.359 --> 00:22:12.880
I mean, that was like the big criticism, right?
00:22:12.960 --> 00:22:14.240
Why do you hang out with all the sinners?
00:22:14.400 --> 00:22:20.079
Why do you I mean and he's like, because I can be with them and love them and ask good questions?
00:22:20.400 --> 00:22:28.960
Yeah, we have a we have a tagline here that uh it's not a tagline, it's a scripture out of Proverbs uh 11 10 where the righteous prosper, the city rejoices.
00:22:29.119 --> 00:22:36.240
So we would ask ourselves, are the things that we're doing day to day, are there things that that make people glad that we moved to this town?
00:22:36.480 --> 00:22:41.200
And if we left, would they be, you know, a little bit bummed out that we left?
00:22:41.440 --> 00:22:49.680
So those are some ways to think, like even in your own neighborhood, what are what are some things that would that our our neighborhood's concerned about, or the moms and dads?
00:22:49.759 --> 00:22:51.039
Like, what are some issues here?
00:22:51.200 --> 00:22:58.240
So we're we're about to start building a big family entertainment health park because 65% of our kids are fatherless.
00:22:58.400 --> 00:23:15.279
So, you know, again, sometimes it requires a big artistic response, and other times you just go, I know about that family, and I know those kids probably live in loneliness, and so the response is just when you see them to say, Hey, we got a cool backyard with the trampoline.
00:23:15.440 --> 00:23:21.279
If you know, if you ask your mom or dad if it's okay, you can use you know, just anything like that.
00:23:21.440 --> 00:23:27.119
Um, but you got to be looking around for what the real issues are that would cause people to be glad you're there.
00:23:27.440 --> 00:23:27.759
Yeah.
00:23:28.000 --> 00:23:31.839
And asking those questions, you know, because people are willing to share their felt needs.
00:23:32.240 --> 00:23:41.119
Um, you know, and if they just know that we care because we genuinely want them, and that is my our language, happier tomorrow than today, of course, Jesus I think is that answer.
00:23:41.200 --> 00:23:43.359
But it starts sometimes with just a cup of coffee.
00:23:43.519 --> 00:23:44.880
I I love the trampoline.
00:23:45.200 --> 00:23:52.720
Um, going in, and I always wrestled, even coming out of seminary, that mentality if your church left tomorrow, would anyone care or notice?
00:23:53.039 --> 00:23:55.359
And it still felt too like centralized.
00:23:55.599 --> 00:23:56.960
I love the way you just said that.
00:23:57.119 --> 00:23:59.920
If you left your neighborhood tomorrow, would anyone notice?
00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:06.240
Yeah, because I do feel like if our church left, I don't know if people would notice because we're not always trying to put our sticker on everything.
00:24:06.720 --> 00:24:07.279
You know what I mean?
00:24:07.359 --> 00:24:12.240
Like it's not about the collective family as much as the release family.
00:24:12.640 --> 00:24:17.279
And so I I man, I and I find so much joy when our people understand that.
00:24:17.359 --> 00:24:26.480
Like, that's why we we do missional grants as a church, and even DMH does missional grants all over with the hope that you see yourself and your trampoline as a sacred space.
00:24:26.720 --> 00:24:27.119
I love that.
00:24:27.200 --> 00:24:27.839
Um, it's great.
00:24:28.079 --> 00:24:29.279
What a cool, cool thing.
00:24:29.759 --> 00:24:33.519
So when you think about Alton, you've been here now for I can't believe it's been a decade.
00:24:33.599 --> 00:24:34.720
You said 10 years already.
00:24:34.880 --> 00:24:35.200
Yeah.
00:24:35.759 --> 00:24:38.799
So I think again, we met right before you moved, and so it's crazy.
00:24:38.880 --> 00:24:51.200
And you've been again, Portland, Denver, these are not easy places, but I'm sharing that more in the context of this loving, caring, living a missionary, living proof of loving God, that translates in every culture, right?
00:24:51.359 --> 00:24:56.559
Yeah, anything different, or people are people, same needs, same desires, no matter what.
00:24:56.720 --> 00:24:58.960
I mean, that that's what I feel like we see often.
00:24:59.279 --> 00:25:00.880
You might see some cultural differences.
00:25:01.119 --> 00:25:03.599
Portland, Oregon, it was easier to get people to the house.
00:25:03.759 --> 00:25:04.480
I don't know why.
00:25:04.559 --> 00:25:07.920
It was uh more west coast, a little bit more open.
00:25:08.079 --> 00:25:16.880
Uh a lot of the families were broken up already, so people were like, you know, Christmas, Easter, any holidays, we'd say, hey, if you don't have a place to go, come hang at the halters.
00:25:17.039 --> 00:25:19.599
It was always 50, 60, 100 people.
00:25:19.839 --> 00:25:24.640
Now we're in a Midwestern culture, families a little bit more intact, except in our town.
00:25:24.799 --> 00:25:30.240
Uh, people a little bit more reserved, so getting them to the houses might be a little bit, you know, less comfortable.
00:25:30.400 --> 00:25:33.839
So I think you do have to be aware of your cultural context.
00:25:34.079 --> 00:25:38.000
But um, I think other than that, the same issues always exist.
00:25:38.160 --> 00:25:54.799
If they if they like and respect you as a person, um, if they know you as a person, um, not as a political, like, don't put signs in your front yards and don't establish yourself as you know, there to stick up for God or stick up for your country.
00:25:54.880 --> 00:25:58.559
If you just be a normal person, I think that works anywhere.
00:25:58.720 --> 00:26:05.680
And if you have good food, it works like if you get crappy food, you know, don't buy your cheese at Costco in pre-made chunks.
00:26:05.759 --> 00:26:08.480
Like, get some real cheese, people are gonna like you, you know.
00:26:08.880 --> 00:26:09.279
I love it.
00:26:09.440 --> 00:26:09.839
I love it.
00:26:10.000 --> 00:26:13.759
Well, and even when you are painting, be the best dang painter that you can be.
00:26:13.839 --> 00:26:17.440
Yeah, because when I'm at your house painting, that creates conversation.
00:26:17.519 --> 00:26:24.079
Yeah, when I, you know, again, the the coffee, you know, your coffee shop isn't a crappy coffee shop on purpose.
00:26:24.319 --> 00:26:27.519
It's designed for good because we're trying to reflect the glory of God.
00:26:27.759 --> 00:26:28.880
Yeah, absolutely.
00:26:29.920 --> 00:26:36.480
Well, recently we had a family, you were out here, I don't know, seven or eight years ago, and you were talking about this new venture, right?
00:26:36.559 --> 00:26:37.920
Just what God was inviting you into.
00:26:38.079 --> 00:26:42.400
Every day you're waking up, surrendered to the spirit, manna from heaven, but also there's some big things as well.
00:26:42.640 --> 00:26:52.400
Um, lots has changed the last seven or eight years, but one of those things is not just what God's doing Alton, but this family was so inspired by going, oh, that's right, everything is a God thing.
00:26:52.559 --> 00:26:55.680
Uh they lived way away from our central location here.
00:26:55.759 --> 00:26:59.920
Um, and so they were like, look, we'll do watch parties for Sunday, but we don't, it's not about Sunday.
00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:02.480
And so they bought a coffee shop and just opened it up.
00:27:02.559 --> 00:27:07.359
And it's amazing to see how this translates Midwest, Far West, East.
00:27:07.599 --> 00:27:11.200
It's all about creating space and your business's mission.
00:27:11.279 --> 00:27:12.160
So you're a business owner.
00:27:12.240 --> 00:27:13.039
How many jobs you got?
00:27:13.200 --> 00:27:14.640
10, 11, 12, right?
00:27:14.799 --> 00:27:17.839
Um, but every one of those is a mission field.
00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:22.079
And so help me coach some of our business owners, our our workers.
00:27:22.319 --> 00:27:25.279
How do we view work as the mission place?
00:27:25.519 --> 00:27:30.480
Yeah, I I I always say business is not a means to the mission in many settings.
00:27:30.640 --> 00:27:32.240
Business is the mission, right?
00:27:32.960 --> 00:27:34.799
Um, and so I think you gotta see it like that.
00:27:34.880 --> 00:27:43.680
I think the key though with any business, it's it's always well, it's not even even if you don't have a business, everything's about building kingdom culture, you know.
00:27:43.759 --> 00:27:50.079
So, like the benefit of what I do here, we we don't try to hire Christians, we try to hire people that don't know God.
00:27:50.240 --> 00:27:53.920
But our managers are all little, you know, subversive missionaries.
00:27:54.079 --> 00:28:01.119
So we all set a culture together of kindness, and somebody's out of line as a staff, they don't get immediately fired.
00:28:01.279 --> 00:28:06.799
We all sit down and love on them and talk to them and go, hey, we want to call you to a different culture.
00:28:06.880 --> 00:28:10.319
And usually they're drawings, people like the kingdom, they really do.
00:28:10.559 --> 00:28:20.480
Um, so given enough time, if you just hold to that culture, they're eventually going to move towards it, um, or they're just they're gonna be actually offended by it.
00:28:20.720 --> 00:28:31.599
So I feel like that's the role of a business in a city is you just help build kingdom culture and and you know, again, change people's mind about what they think a Christian is.
00:28:32.240 --> 00:28:38.000
In our setting, you know, there's a lot of religious people that don't like us because we got a whiskey bar next to our coffee bar.
00:28:38.079 --> 00:28:48.000
They don't get it, you know, but the locals appreciate you know what we do and and all the different types of unique business things that we do, but it's mostly they they like our people.
00:28:48.240 --> 00:28:53.039
It's like a consistency of um concern and care.
00:28:53.279 --> 00:29:16.480
And we I mean we had a guy come in the other night with uh into our pizza uh microbrewery, and he had a bulletproof jacket on, and he was not doing well with drugs, and by the end of the night he's sharing his whole, you know, we thought he was basically gonna shoot up the joint, and our staff just locked in and ends up the guy actually had a real soft heart and they were able to love on him, and you know, it's just stuff like that.
00:29:16.559 --> 00:29:18.720
Uh just kind of happens in the business, right?
00:29:18.799 --> 00:29:21.759
It's not happening in the church, but it's happening in the business.
00:29:22.079 --> 00:29:23.519
Yeah, and I don't even mean that.
00:29:23.599 --> 00:29:24.400
I know it's not your heart.
00:29:24.480 --> 00:29:26.400
I don't mean that as a criticism to the church.
00:29:26.559 --> 00:29:28.720
I just want to equip the church to go.
00:29:29.119 --> 00:29:31.839
Um, the opportunities, I love the way you said earlier.
00:29:32.000 --> 00:29:34.799
Like, it's amazing how many times they're gonna ask questions.
00:29:34.880 --> 00:29:43.759
Like, I actually my schedule could be full of lunches with the yet to believe um because they know that we love them, we care about them, um, and we want that.
00:29:43.839 --> 00:29:53.119
But how powerful it'd be if we viewed the church as a collective scattering, not just gathering, um, to all these unique places where again, like you said, that guy's not going to vintage grace.
00:29:53.200 --> 00:29:54.640
He's not gonna show up on a Sunday.
00:29:54.799 --> 00:29:56.559
Um, but he will come to the bar.
00:29:56.720 --> 00:30:03.359
And so if we're there ready for him, what a huge opportunity to just be incarnational, Jesus with skin on, right?
00:30:03.599 --> 00:30:13.759
Yeah, we had even the other night, and this is with one of our pizza guys that, you know, I mean, he knows God, but he's he's never really like, as he would say, never been on mission.
00:30:13.920 --> 00:30:22.480
So he'd buy himself in the pizza joint the other night, and an adolescent from a from a Catholic orphanage that we've kind of we've all befriended.
00:30:22.559 --> 00:30:28.720
He came in and he had to share that he had just been raped at the orphanage, you know, and it was interesting.
00:30:28.960 --> 00:30:33.359
Our staff called because he's like, this is above my pay grade, but and we all went.
00:30:34.160 --> 00:30:44.480
But I just remember thinking that this kid, he thought the only place I can go to get help on this was to our pizza joint because of what our people had done.
00:30:44.640 --> 00:30:51.119
But it did also help disciple our staff person, it helped them realize that what they were doing was mission.
00:30:51.359 --> 00:30:59.039
So, I mean, everything related to disciple making, I just feel like it's better when it's done out there, not in here.
00:30:59.519 --> 00:31:00.319
Yeah, yeah.
00:31:00.559 --> 00:31:05.519
Well, and I just remember being a young high schooler going on our you know, Mexico missions trip.
00:31:05.599 --> 00:31:11.680
And the highlight for me was coming back after a good day of quote unquote work and then talking about where did you see God work?
00:31:11.839 --> 00:31:14.880
Like, what if we framed our home that way, right?
00:31:15.200 --> 00:31:16.799
That's what I know family dinners are for you.
00:31:16.960 --> 00:31:24.720
What if we framed our church gathering, our life groups, our missional spaces that every day it was this rhythm of God, what are you inviting me into?
00:31:24.880 --> 00:31:32.160
This surrender of the day, my eyes are open to see, but then the end of the day, this reflection of you you said 20 at one point with kids, right?
00:31:32.400 --> 00:31:33.200
20 moments.
00:31:33.279 --> 00:31:35.839
And if I get two of them, I feel like I crushed it, right?
00:31:35.920 --> 00:31:37.920
Like two for 20 feels like a dub.
00:31:38.160 --> 00:31:43.519
But just to reflect on those two, or even to reflect on those 18, how do you process that?
00:31:43.680 --> 00:31:52.000
Like, I'm trying to create a culture where that's a regular rhythm with my marriage, with my babies, and in our churches that we go and then we come together and hey, let's let's just talk.
00:31:52.079 --> 00:31:52.799
Let's debrief.
00:31:52.880 --> 00:31:54.000
How did the work week go?
00:31:54.160 --> 00:31:55.440
What was a kingdom moment?
00:31:55.519 --> 00:31:56.960
What was a Jesus fingerprint?
00:31:57.039 --> 00:31:58.240
What was an invitation?
00:31:58.400 --> 00:32:05.279
What are some things you've done that have helped people reflect after the fact and then actually preps them to go into the next one?
00:32:05.599 --> 00:32:13.440
Yeah, well, I mean, like with the situation I just brought up, I have not had time to debrief that with this staff person, but I know he works tomorrow.
00:32:13.519 --> 00:32:17.279
So I'm specifically gonna go on and go, hey, let's talk about that.
00:32:17.519 --> 00:32:20.000
And yeah, um, I've done that with my kids.
00:32:20.079 --> 00:32:29.039
You know, if we have a party and one of the one of the old guys gets drinking too much and gets a little obnoxious, and I have to take him out of our house and send them home and go home and sleep with them.
00:32:29.279 --> 00:32:34.079
Uh that's when I remember I talked with Allie about alcohol and she was 13 at the time, you know.
00:32:34.319 --> 00:32:41.680
So every situation, it's like, well, if the crap hit the fan or um or if it went great, then I'm gonna debrief it usually.
00:32:41.759 --> 00:32:43.200
Just it's almost like natural.
00:32:43.279 --> 00:32:47.440
Like, hey, that was awesome the other day when we were doing that together.
00:32:47.599 --> 00:32:51.519
So um I'd also say like I'd encourage folks to plan your week.
00:32:51.599 --> 00:32:53.519
Like you take ownership of your own life.
00:32:53.680 --> 00:33:00.880
So, you know, we would plan the family night, we would plan the big Bronco pizza party and telling everybody bring their friends.
00:33:01.039 --> 00:33:06.799
So if you put it on your calendar, generally uh unique opportunities will happen.
00:33:06.880 --> 00:33:13.440
If you if you just let weeks and weeks go by and you're waiting for like supernatural, a lot of times it doesn't.
00:33:13.519 --> 00:33:21.920
So I I would say plan what you can and then be available on those weird times where where God goes, hey, I know you're busy, but we need you over here.
00:33:22.079 --> 00:33:27.680
Like simmer down, it'll be okay, but I need you for a half hour over on this park bench.
00:33:27.759 --> 00:33:29.039
So yeah.
00:33:29.279 --> 00:33:38.880
Well, and I just feel like we're doing anyone a favor when that happens because we're helping them grow in their understanding of what does it mean to be incarnational, but also to receive.
00:33:39.039 --> 00:33:43.519
Like when I'm in a situation I don't have a clue what I'm doing, it's amazing the spirit shows up every time.
00:33:43.839 --> 00:33:48.480
And I might fumble, I might fail, I might, but again, there is really no failure when it's the spirit leading.
00:33:48.960 --> 00:33:52.799
And there's a freedom to that of being like, I don't have a clue what I'm doing.
00:33:52.960 --> 00:33:54.960
I'm moving to a new town, starting a new job.
00:33:55.119 --> 00:33:57.200
I mean, you've got so many different jobs you're starting.
00:33:57.359 --> 00:34:00.319
There's an excitement of discovery, there's a desperation.
00:34:00.480 --> 00:34:02.000
Um, I love that.
00:34:02.240 --> 00:34:04.799
Yeah, here's a little reminder maybe for everybody.
00:34:04.880 --> 00:34:09.199
Um, and to me, it lets it take all the pressure off this whole thing.
00:34:09.360 --> 00:34:14.639
Um, and that is that Jesus said he would build his church, so you don't have to try to build his church ever.
00:34:15.039 --> 00:34:22.880
He also said, I know you guys are going to struggle with trying to convince and convict people of sin, righteousness, and holiness, so I'll send the Holy Spirit to do that.
00:34:23.039 --> 00:34:23.360
Yeah.
00:34:23.679 --> 00:34:26.239
And then there's no scripture that says we build the kingdom.
00:34:26.320 --> 00:34:39.920
So when you don't have to build the church and you don't have to convince or convert people, and you and you can't build the kingdom, it's already there, then those are generally the three categories that usually get us all uptight and get our undies in a square knot.
00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:54.159
And if God just said, look, you don't do any of that, then what you do get to do is live your life and and just walk and say, God, I'm available and get after the stuff you love doing and know that God's going to breathe into it and stuff is gonna happen.
00:34:54.400 --> 00:34:59.920
So I always like tell would-be missionaries anywhere in the world, like, chill out, number one.
00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:04.639
Yeah, um, this is not, you know, people don't go to hell because we don't get to them in time.
00:35:04.800 --> 00:35:07.920
Jesus lived 30 years in the neighborhood and never said a word.
00:35:08.079 --> 00:35:14.400
So that teaches us like uh it ain't about the the timing issue or about franticness.
00:35:14.480 --> 00:35:20.960
This is about the father and his patient love for people, and it'll get done when it needs to get done.
00:35:21.119 --> 00:35:24.639
Um, so wait for him to lead for sure.
00:35:25.039 --> 00:35:26.880
When there's so much freedom to that.
00:35:26.960 --> 00:35:28.320
That's what you're describing, right?
00:35:28.480 --> 00:35:39.360
Which again, I I definitely missed a little bit in seminary and all of this idea of like, we got to do our apologetics training, we gotta always be ready to give an account, which is a true biblical verse.
00:35:39.440 --> 00:35:44.159
Like, we do, but man, I said ask people like, have you lived in such a way that people want you to give an account?
00:35:44.719 --> 00:35:44.960
Right?
00:35:45.119 --> 00:35:48.880
Like, what a cool opportunity when someone comes and says, Man, I'm broken.
00:35:49.039 --> 00:35:59.119
This is what my wife is saying about me, or man, this is what my dad didn't do, and he's left me, or this is the domestic abuse, and like these opportunities are literally in every one of our neighborhoods.
00:35:59.360 --> 00:36:03.280
I pray we see them, like I pray we're there with eyes open.
00:36:03.440 --> 00:36:11.039
Um, and I do, I love the freedom that it's just not about us, which some of us don't like because we wish it was, um, but we really don't.
00:36:11.360 --> 00:36:18.800
Like, we just one of my greatest, you know, the mistakes, the moments where I went, geez, halter, it's when I was moving too fast.
00:36:20.159 --> 00:36:21.920
And it was, you know, it's because I love people.
00:36:22.079 --> 00:36:25.039
I've always cared about people outside the faith.
00:36:25.199 --> 00:36:30.880
Um, but I think as I've gotten older, I I realize God loves them way more than I do.
00:36:31.039 --> 00:36:34.639
And he's, you know, he has he's always been a front band.
00:36:34.960 --> 00:36:41.599
He could have just pulled up and just told everybody exactly who he was, but there was timing issues, and he would send John the Baptist.
00:36:41.760 --> 00:36:43.679
Like, like, why waste all this time?
00:36:43.760 --> 00:36:52.159
But well, there's something he understands the psyche of people, and that there needs to be a build-up and uh kind of a tearing off of shackles.
00:36:52.320 --> 00:36:56.639
And so I just say just be a part of the long process that God's doing with everybody.
00:36:56.719 --> 00:37:02.320
And then, you know, if if he calls you to proclaim in a moment or to share your faith, then do it.
00:37:02.480 --> 00:37:05.360
You know, but if they're asking, you don't have to shrink back at all.
00:37:05.519 --> 00:37:09.760
You just be honest with them and tell them what um so I don't know.
00:37:09.840 --> 00:37:12.639
I just I think as I get older, it's way less pressure.
00:37:12.800 --> 00:37:14.960
I totally trust God with everybody.
00:37:15.119 --> 00:37:17.920
I'm happy to not talk for him now.
00:37:18.000 --> 00:37:19.360
I'm happy to not do anything.
00:37:19.440 --> 00:37:21.599
I like being by myself.
00:37:21.840 --> 00:37:23.440
I don't even like people anymore.
00:37:23.519 --> 00:37:24.800
I mean, that's that's the natural.
00:37:25.039 --> 00:37:30.960
So when if God wants to interrupt and pull me in, remember it's Hugh Halter has been crucified with Christ.
00:37:31.039 --> 00:37:35.280
So it's not Hugh Halter who gets to live his life, but it's Christ that wants to live in me.
00:37:35.360 --> 00:37:37.280
That's an amazing concept.
00:37:38.159 --> 00:37:42.559
So, you know, I just I wake up every day and go, look, if you don't need me, I'd be great.
00:37:42.800 --> 00:37:46.719
But I'll do if you need me all day for 12 hours today, I'm in.
00:37:46.880 --> 00:37:47.599
Whatever you want.
00:37:47.760 --> 00:37:48.159
Yeah.
00:37:48.400 --> 00:37:48.800
Yeah.
00:37:49.039 --> 00:37:56.559
Well, and again, I just I can't thank you enough for just how you've modeled that in season, out of season, hard seasons, good seasons.
00:37:56.719 --> 00:38:01.119
Um, it's so easy to just settle for, all right, I just want to get by.
00:38:01.280 --> 00:38:06.719
And faithfully, the Spirit's opening doors for you relationally, in your neighbors, at your work, where you play.
00:38:06.880 --> 00:38:09.280
Um, any final words for us as a community?
00:38:09.360 --> 00:38:10.639
We're we're fighting for our joy.
00:38:10.719 --> 00:38:14.800
We're trying to pray, like we really are trying to have a culture of prayer, of surrender every morning.
00:38:14.880 --> 00:38:16.159
God, what do you have for us?
00:38:16.320 --> 00:38:17.920
Um, any final words?
00:38:18.239 --> 00:38:20.239
Surrender, buy your underwear, what else?
00:38:20.480 --> 00:38:31.199
I'd say walk with your eyes open in the morning early, take a little five minute, and just invite God to interrupt your day and ask him to put bread on the trail.
00:38:31.360 --> 00:38:32.639
And just so good.
00:38:32.960 --> 00:38:36.719
That's don't go past that and see what he builds out in your life.
00:38:37.280 --> 00:38:38.000
Cool, cool.
00:38:38.079 --> 00:38:42.719
Well, it's fun, like I said, for us as a church, as an organization, from afar, as a little brother.
00:38:42.880 --> 00:38:44.159
Thanks for not just leading.
00:38:44.239 --> 00:38:45.920
I appreciate the way you lead, but you live.
00:38:46.000 --> 00:38:47.360
That is your your life.
00:38:47.440 --> 00:38:49.119
Every book you've written has pointed to that.
00:38:49.199 --> 00:38:52.239
We'll put those in the show notes, just ways to get connected.
00:38:52.320 --> 00:39:04.320
Um, and I want to encourage our our DMH community, we're gonna dive into that first side of the diamond, which again, it's not a playbook, it's just a pathway, which is exactly what Hugh said without knowing it, but it's identified to be a culture of praying.
00:39:04.480 --> 00:39:08.639
I'm just watching what are you, spirit, doing, as we live as everyday missionaries?
00:39:08.719 --> 00:39:10.880
Because the harvest is plentiful and the labors are few.
00:39:10.960 --> 00:39:15.760
I pray that's not true of Hugh, of Drew, or of you, because it's happening everywhere that you live, work, and play.
00:39:15.840 --> 00:39:16.719
Thanks for being with us, guys.
00:39:17.360 --> 00:39:17.760
Love you.
00:39:17.920 --> 00:39:18.320
Take care.
