Cliff Haney on Lowtemp Industries & Scaling Solventless | Digging Deeper Ep. 11

Austin: Alright, guys, welcome back. Another episode of Digging Deeper by Dialedon Gummies. I'm with Cliff Haney. Yep, correct. From Low Temp Industries, founded right here in Denver, Colorado, one of the fastest growing solventless extraction equipment companies in America and beyond. I had no idea the demand would be what it is today. These machines don't call out sick. They don't come in to work with attitudes. They usually get shit done. Super simple solution to a pretty massive. I mean I still remember though having conversations with some of the biggest edible producers and them just basically laughing at me and telling me hey this process is never gonna scale. Have fun with your little pet project. Colorado is the home of hash. Sure, Maine, Michigan, obviously California. Like Colorado's hash is some of the best. One thing you'll notice if you've been in the hash community for a while, there's some big egos. ⁓ with the ampersand, I mean that have you tried some yet? I hadn't. It's incredible. That's b gonna become a lot more popular. I I thought it was cringe. I think that's where things are gonna head. Cliff, thanks for coming in, man. Yeah, thanks for having me, man. Absolutely. Hey, you know, we're trying, Cliff. We're trying. Totally. So, Cliff, let's talk about the beginning days. You know, ⁓ I know Levi is the founder. Yep, correct. And ⁓ I know he was kind of like a little bit of a tinkerer growing up. He liked to just build things. I know he had mentioned he used to build like underwater water housing equipment for cameras before GoPro was around. Or GoPro's or even existed. Crazy to think about. Crazy. He might have had a whole other idea there. Yeah. ⁓ but I'm glad that he went into extraction equipment instead. So he had this whole idea of like wanting to build solventless extraction equipment. Can you talk about like where that idea came from and like how he brought it to fruition? Totally. So, you know, I think Levi was always kind of a stoner scientist growing up. And when he started to go to college, he was around like 19 when he moved out to Denver or dropped out of college. He He started to see this solventless trend and he was like, Okay, I think I can build a rosin press. I don't even think at that time he had it in his head like I'm gonna build this solventless extraction equipment company. I think it was more just the press. I'm gonna build a rosin press company. Interesting. Which is why we were low temp plates to start. Now we're low temp industries as we've expanded the product line. So I don't think it was anywhere on his radar at the time, like, Hey, we're gonna build big hash washing machines. I forget that it started with just the plates. Just started with the plates, man. And he really crowdsourced the whole thing, building these presses out of his garage and and it really just grew from there. So he never took on investment dollars. He built this company brick by brick. And you said that just now. I was gonna touch on that. So all the funding came from the community. Like exactly literally he would build a press, he charge somebody for it and would just slowly build on that over time. Then when the Osprey came, you know, much higher price point ⁓ piece of equipment. So that's where it really started to just snowball. Turn into this massive massive thing that I don't think he ever expected. And you guys are still making things to order, correct? Correct. Like yeah. It's not like you just have endless inventory of like the overhead would be outrageous. So you have all the could do that, right? Because demand wasn't as high as it is now. But you look at every lab in the country, I mean, nine out of ten labs are rock in low temp equipment. Absolutely. Even all of the home grower guys. ⁓ absolutely. Some of these these hobbyists or some of these guys that are just Entering competitions, they've got a garage setup. So when you're dealing with that kind of volume from the home growers and these small labs, and then we've also got these massive lab builds where it's not just a press and a washer, it's water chilling, it's RO systems, it's freeze dryers, it's all of these different things. It's really hard to have all of that stuff on the shelf. So now we've got a back order. We've got a backlog of equipment. So, you know, with the dispenser, we we've got a log of people that are waiting on their equipment. Get there. So we're building as quick as we can and shipping them out the same. All right. So for the people who don't necessarily know about low temp, can you explain the osprey? Totally. And then can you explain the dispenser as well? Yeah, totally. So the the whole solventless extraction process starts with trying to capture the trichome head. Yep. The most effective and highest quality way to do that is to use water. Typically people have used ice water, but as long as the water is chilled, that is sufficient. And what we're doing is we're using the osprey, which is our hash washing machine, to add water, to agitate the material, just as you would wash your clothes. And what we're doing is we're snapping the top of that trichome head off. It's a glandular structure. It's where all the terpenes and cannabinoids live. And it looks like a mushroom. And basically, what we're doing is we're doing this gently enough where we're snapping the head off of the stalk, and then we're collecting all of those trichomb heads, either in hash collection bags, which are typically referred to as bubble bags. Yep. Or now we've got stainless steel screens. That's called the auto sieve, where we'll grade the different levels of hash because they range in size, right? You know, most people are collecting twenty five U or forty five U. And then the bags go all the way up to two twenty. Two twenty being your cleanup bag where you're gonna have your your plant contaminant. So that's that's really the purpose of the hash washing is to snap off that trichome head, which To the layman, I mean, if you look at cannabis and you see what you think are crystals, correct, those are those glandular structures we're excellent for. Excellent. And so how long has the osprey now been in market? Because like we we just recently got one, you know, I want to say two years ago. Yeah. I dialed in, but they've been around way before that. How long have ospreys really been around now? I think about five or six years now. Okay. You know, ⁓ the the in house guys were just here and they said they bought theirs five years ago. So Crazy. We know at least five years. Okay. Yep. Excellent. Excellent. And you have since then, because the Osprey is the big boy. Exactly. Now seventy five gallon. Seventy five gallons. It's commercial scale. Yeah. You're not running an OG Osprey in your basement. No, no, no, no. But you are running the mini. The mini. Exactly. The mini. So what's the mini and what's the size difference? It's just a dumbed down version of the Osprey, right? It's a 30 gallon unit, a lot more affordable. It's a nice entry level system for people who are maybe doing smaller batches. And then the OG Osprey is just like a a lot it's I wouldn't say a lot more complex, but it's got a UL listed control panel. It's got double walled insulation with closed cell foam. So it's just a more robust unit for people that are looking to do real numbers, you know, 20 kilos at a time. And are you starting to see a lot more minis fly off the shelf now? Yeah, dude, it was insane. Really? I really I had no idea. the demand would be what it is today. ⁓ because that, you know, there's still a lot of people that are on the home cultivation side or the trap. And they they have this misconception that in order to make quality, you need to be using a paddle and a brute trash can. And that's just not the case, bro. Yeah. Yeah. It it is it is low cost, right? For for those people. But it's great place to start. 100%. 100%. But you can create identical quality using either method. And you've proven that now. Yeah. You've proven that. We've got the macros. We've got the side by side taste test. Like, you know, I think if there was a major difference, then house guys would be s washing my hands still, you know? A hundred percent. A hundred percent. So and now you have the dispenser as well. Talk about that. Yeah, so that that's really the biggest bottleneck I would say in any cannabis facility, right? Like you've got pack a few people in the grow, you've got a few people in the extraction side of things. And then you've got a team of five to ten people packaging that product. So all of the value starts in cultivation. In extraction, we express that value into another skew. Packaging is just a necessary evil to distribute that value. Yeah. So we picked up on that, saw that hey, there's five to ten people that are doing this process. Our customers are asking us for a solution. So let's go ahead and make a solution that's not applying heat to the product. Everything that's touching it is stainless steel components. And we're simply just extruding the product. So super simple solution to a pretty massive problem. And for all the extraction companies that may be listening to this, these are available right now. Totally can can totally help with cogs because as I was kind of joking around with Cliff before we got on camera, these machines don't call out sick. They don't come in to work with attitudes. They usually get shit done. So totally. ⁓ that's a pretty cool thing. I I definitely I saw it when we were at Neecan and ⁓ I I definitely see that being a very valuable piece of equipment in most extraction processing labs. It's been a game changer for us for sure. Yeah. Customers. Now Low Temp started at what year again in Colorado? Twenty fifteen. Twenty fifteen. Yep. Okay. So you guys just celebrated ten years. Yeah. Congratulations. Thank you. Massive. Totally. And are you just in Colorado or do you have like a a separate facility or like I know the headquarters is here. Yep. But does everything come from Colorado? So I wouldn't say everything comes from Colorado. Like we've got another state where we do a lot of our fabrication. Okay. And then ship stuff here to Colorado where we will finish things off, electronics, things like that. So we've got a stainless steel weld shop. Okay. ⁓ and they do a lot of the initial construction. We finish it off here in Denver. Excellent. And like how many employees now does Low Time pass? So I think we're almost at like thirty employees. No way. Which is insane. You know? It's really insane. Especially the past two years. We've really seen the team grow pretty significantly. So we've got a lot of really cool people that work at Low Temp. I mean, a lot of these guys were, you know, born in this space before it was legal. Mm-hmm. And so they're just so in tune with our customer base. They run our equipment at home. Like you call us for customer support or to have a sales conversation, you're not talking to a suit. Like you're talking to dudes that have been doing this for years. A hundred percent. Yeah. I think that's what makes you guys very special. Totally. ⁓ now so You guys came in twenty fifteen. So cannabis had just legalized in twenty fourteen. So Rosin really at that time wasn't really being talked about that much. So you came in at a very unique time. When do you think that spike happened? Of like, cause I can look back and remember I moved to Colorado in 2019 and Rosin was like really starting to take off then. Totally. It still isn't where it is today. Cause today is insane. Yeah. Like Colorado is the home of hash. Totally. Like sure, Maine, Michigan, obviously California, they've got a nice hash community there. There's no doubt about it. But like Colorado's hash is some of the best. And you can get it for such affordable pricing. Totally. Now, where did you where do you think that whole spike happened? What year like stands out to you of like, ⁓ that was the year? Well, for me personally, you know, at the time, I wasn't at low temp. So I was at peer pressure. That's right. So I would say at the pure pressure days, to me it seemed around twenty twenty. Yeah. Where people were really starting to look at this and be like, Okay, we're gonna start scaling up and preparing ourselves for the future because this is where the industry's headed. Yeah. I mean, I still remember though having conversations with some of the biggest edible producers, probably people that you guys have taken tens of millions of dollars in market share from and pitching them on this concept and them just basically laughing at me and telling me, Hey, this process is never gonna scale. People simply don't care. Yep. They want distillate edibles. Have fun with your little pet project. You know? And that was really common to get those kind of, you know those reactions. Those reactions, I would say, from some of these big players. ⁓ yeah. We were told we were crazy to launch a rosin gummy back in 2020. Dude, I remember when Jason actually called into peer pressure and he was working with my coworker, ⁓ Brady at the time. And they were talking about this, and Brady was kind of telling me about the project, and I was just like, be completely honest with you, I was like, ⁓ this is this is not gonna work out. Right. Like I really I didn't think there was any way that you guys would be able to do what you did. So it's it's astounding, you know. Super cool to see and like it's I think it's inspiring to a lot of people out there because, you know, I was a cynic at the time and just seeing what you guys have done and I love your product. You know, it's definitely one of my favorite on the market. So thank you. Thank you. It means a lot, man. It means a lot. So you went From Pure Pressure. When did you come over to Low Temp? ⁓ so I came over to Low Temp a little over three years ago. Okay. You know, I was at Pure Pressure at the time. There was this big Agrify acquisition. You know, it was this publicly traded company. They came in, the culture kind of had a massive decline, bled off a lot of the top talent. And that kind of led me to see the writing on the wall like, hey, this is not gonna last. When you lose your top talent, you lose the culture, you start to lose that edge on the innovation side. Absolutely. I remember ⁓ actually funny you mentioned that. I remember because I'm pretty sure Peer Pressure had their own booth at MJ BizCon. Yeah. Back in I think it was twenty one. Yep. And I remember them being with who was it again? Agra. Agrify. Agrify. They all of a sudden they were under the Agrafy umbrella the next year. And I was like, whoa, when did that happen? Totally. And you could just tell, like vibes were different. You know things changed. You know? Things changed. So I saw that writing on the wall, and that's when I hit up Levi and I was like, hey, you know, let's do this. Love that. And now how many states would you say Wotemp has products in? Like in how many countries? I was just gonna say, and it's not just the United States, like how many countries now? I think you would mention all the way from Afghanistan to Japan. Japan places that we, you know, maybe wouldn't even wanna talk about. So but it's insane. I mean, you look at every single state and you'll find one piece of equipment. You might not find a massive lab, but you'll find a rosin press here and there. No matter where you go. That's gotta be pretty cool, man. It's awesome. That's it's insane to see. Really, especially when we go to places like Spanivus and then people coming up to our booth like, Hey, dude, I'm in the hills of Columbia. I was watching your videos on how to make this product, and you're just like mind blown. Like, how is this possible that that you you know who we are and what we do? Your guys' motto is buy hash makers for hash makers. Yep. And I think we kind of touched on that a little bit earlier when you were talking about, you know, every employee that works at Low Temp, you they've got At least one of the pieces of equipment at home, like they were kind of born into this culture, born into this lifestyle. How important do you think that was when building your community, having that as your slogan and like having those types of employees for when people do call in to have that kind of an experience? So one thing, we are kind of moving away from buy hashmakers for hash makers. Okay. I did come up with that, and now twenty companies have taken that and so it means nothing now. ⁓ you see that and it's just like, ⁓ Everybody, everybody says that. But no, it's it's really true, right? Like when we're developing products, we're working hand in hand with the trappers that are doing it right. We're asking for their feedback. We're putting that feedback directly into our products. And that's what matters because I've seen a lot of companies, right? They've got super talented engineers. They let them run wild and they're just like, dude, go build the sickest shit that you can build. And they're like, What if we put laser beams on? And like make this and it's like that that's features. Sharks with laser beams. Dude, it's like features are great, right? But what we really excel in doing is taking the process, simplifying it, and making every single one of our pieces of equipment two to three button operation. Right. Like you start dealing with the wash, it's time in RPM. You deal with the freeze dryer, it's time in temperature. You deal with the press, it's time, temperature, pressure. You deal with the concentrate dispenser, it's really distance that the piston's traveling. So we like to simplify the process and make equipment that's not gonna break down, doesn't have these unnecessary features that drive up the cost because we're we're trying to provide simple, affordable solutions no matter the scale. I love that. And you guys have done a really phenomenal job of like creating this library of videos to help. The new potential customer or user of equipment understand how it works. And I'm pretty sure you're the face of a lot of those. Totally. And so, how instrumental do you think that's been for LowTemp since you started to release those? And then also, make this a really long question. You guys have also started doing grow tours, kind of similar, like we do them as well, and highlighting how the equipment's being used. How has all that been instrumental to the growth for the company as well? So, you know, I would say with the educational content, like it's it's so critical that people know what they're doing with your equipment, that they're doing things the right way, that they're thinking about these different processes. You put out a a a tech tip or something like that, you'll get 20 comments with people disagreeing with you. And some of them might have good ideas that spark ideas within the community. Yep. So then people are sharing our content and it's it's helping them and it's helping us because Regardless if they're using our equipment, they're looking at us as that educational platform or resource. And we're always going to be top of mind. When they think solventless extraction, they're going to think about low temp. Absolutely. And how has how has it been going to these grow tours and like getting to see your equipment used and like getting to hear the feedback from the actual employees using it on an everyday basis? And maybe some of these people were paddle washing before and they could be like, dude, my back, my arms, like everything's been saved. Thanks to this piece of equipment. Now I have to do is press this button and watch it work. I think it's so sick, you know, and oftentimes I'm surprised by how people are using our equipment. Yeah. You know, you look at their process and like you ask a hundred hash makers, what's the best RPM or what's the best methodology for high RPM to start, low P low RPM to finish. Mm-hmm. You'll get a million different answers. And I think talking to these people and seeing the different ways that they're using the equipment is is really interesting because would they all have these concepts and these ideas that they believe are making the best product. And oftentimes those guys are right. Do you ever step in and be like, have you tried this? Or do you just kind of let them like I try not to do that. Yeah. Because I think one thing you'll notice if you've been in the hash community for a while, there's some there's some pretty big egos. and so there's there's a competition called ego clash. Exactly. You start trying to tell somebody what they're doing wrong and that's a good way to just create Friction and I try to avoid friction, confrontation, yeah, beef, anything that could lead to to that. I'm just like, ⁓ God, this is incredible. You guys are doing great. Like, you know, I'm trying to more uplift them to be curious about those things and and go try those smart. You know, don't take my word for it. I haven't tried your methodology. So run the numbers. Do some testing, do some RD. Very smart. And you guys are also now doing classes. Yep. Correct? Yeah, we've been doing classes. So We did one with Ken Wall back in Oklahoma like years ago. We did one with the real cannabis Chris. We're doing one with Bubble Man now. Yeah. ⁓ so it's not so much that it's a a low temp class as we're giving them a platform to carry out their class using our equipment. Excell you know, so they're kind of setting the curriculum. This is all of their tech, their knowledge that they're sharing with the community. We're just helping them as a platform to do that. That's beautiful. And you guys have been doing this for how long now? I would say, you know, the Ken Maw class, I think that was probably like five or six years ago. No kid. But we don't do these often, you know. So they're special when you do them. Exactly. It's it's not gonna happen every year. It's not gonna happen every few months. It's just whenever the timing aligns. Now we're gonna go away from cannabis for a second, because you gave me a little ⁓ tidbit about yourself that I think is super interesting for everyone that doesn't know about Cliff. He was born on a navy. Ship. Well, not born. I was conceived on the Navy ship. So born, I I think they would have more than thrown him in the brig. Like he might have disappeared for that one. But yeah, dude, crazy. You know, my my mom and my dad were both in the navy. Yeah. My dad was a ⁓ what was it? A master chief on the ship. My mom was a new recruit. She ended up getting pregnant while they were out. He ended up getting thrown in the brig for a few months. So For a few months. For a few months. Crazy and demoted. So it was yeah. Because that's a big no-no. ⁓ my god, yeah. That's like the biggest the biggest no-no. The biggest no-no. It's not a trading state secrets or something, you know. And where were they stationed? When did like where did they so I was born in Orlando, Florida? So that's where they were stationed at the time. Okay. Yep. I went to college in Orlando. No way. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I grew up in the South. You know, like I I was born in Orlando. I've got family in Atlanta. I've got family now in Baton Rouge. I spent most of my childhood in Arkansas. Really? Yeah, dude. I'm from the South. The South. Yep. All right. And how long have you been in Colorado now? I've been in Colorado for about eight years now. Okay. Yep. Okay. I came out just to get in the cannabis industry. So like twenty eighteen, twenty seventeen? Yep. Exactly. Okay. Very cool. So you were here just a couple years after it all went legal. Yep. But you got to see it all change. Totally. And so, you know, what's your biggest takeaway for Colorado? What do you think's gonna be the next thing, if you will? Like, you know, we've seen so many trends in cannabis, right? You know, it went from obviously the best flour, then it went to, you know, concentrates of all types, right? Even before rosin, you had your shatters, your batters, your waxes, and then solvent was started coming into the play. And then we had fresh press, then went cold cure. Then you've got f thumb prints. And now we've got Ambersand coming into the market here soon, which what are your thoughts on Ambersand? I think it's super sick. It's cool, right? Tony's doing things that are different. Yeah. Right. And he's coming up with new products. And I I love to see that. Cause I wouldn't say there's been a ton of innovation that's happened over the past eight years. Like I think people get so caught up in like the hash making side of things and trying to come up with new SKUs that maybe they don't. provide a lot of value. It's just a different look and texture. But with the ampersand, I mean that that's really interesting to me. And I love seeing stuff like that. Have you tried some yet? I haven't. You haven't? No. ⁓ Why you you holding? Well, I mean, I might it's incredible. I might know a guy. All right. It's incredible. ⁓ I was lucky to have some right before a little like Day on the hill. It wasn't a mountain because I'm live back in Ohio now. And I was yeah, snowboarding on this hill in Indiana that ⁓ my man Austin knows all about. It's ⁓ perfect north slopes in Lawrenceburg, Indiana. Very cool. ⁓ the most vertical drop in the state, all four hundred feet. you literally start I stopped listening to music there because I would start a song. Not even twenty seconds later, I'm at the back at the lift line. Yep. Yeah. So I'm like, all right, let's just enjoy the nature and the sound and sounds of turns. But anyways, I was with my buddy and he busted out an amber sand jar. And I'm like, where'd you get that? He's like, Well, we're thinking about I'm like, Well, give me a scoop. What's the taste in the mouth feel like? It literally just dissolves instantly under the tongue. There's not a weird, you know how sometimes when you're not lingering or anything like that. No, no. Interesting. Doesn't coat your mouth at all either? No, no, it was pretty terp forward, you know, which I would love obviously I love. Yeah. ⁓ And the effects were great and they did hit pretty quickly. And it's not flavored, right? It's like correct. The concentrated self is the flavor. Is the flavor. Yes. Which threw me off. I've only seen that one other time and that was ⁓ Papa Select or Papa and Barkley in California. They had their hash line of gummies that were unflavored, but it was Seven Ten Labs did too. Okay. Yeah, Seven Ten Labs did it. Yep. ⁓ And but that's our rosin drops, you know, like our solventless simple syrup. We don't flavor that. It's turp forward. So whatever the rosin that we're using for that product, that turp profile is what you're gonna taste in the product. Dude, I used to make some drinks with the the syrup I made. When back when I was doing turp guide, I was making little cocktail recipes and stuff. ⁓ it's the best. Like I I love that because I've been trying to drink a lot less. Yeah. You know, and I just am gravitating towards these microdose THC beverages. And you asked earlier about where do I see things going. Yeah. And I think that's be gonna become a lot more popular. For me, when I first saw it, like a buddy was like, ⁓ hey, I've got this 1.5 milligram THC hop water. And in my head at the time, like, ⁓ you got this 1.5 milligram. Yeah, what's this 1.5 gonna do? I I thought it was cringe. You know, I was like, ⁓ this is gonna do nothing. It's not my type of product. But then I started drinking and I'm like, okay, this feels like I'm drinking, maybe. Beer. It's like I don't feel like I'm missing out when I'm kicking it with the homies and I don't want to drink. I can sip on this. And it's I think that's where things are gonna head. ⁓ dude, I'll bring a bottle of rosendrops to a party and like offer to make everyone cocktails. They think it's the coolest totally thing that they're having a Manhattan that isn't bourbon-based, it's cannabis-based, still using bitters, still using all the components, muddle cherry, whatever. Of well, I'm thinking I'm now describing old fashioned, but anyway. ⁓ and then but you use the syrup as the base and this little soda water, they freak out, you know? ⁓ I just have a lot less guilt with that. Yeah, with no hangover cannabis than alcohol. You know, for some reason I really beat myself up when I like go hard one night, I'm hungover the entire next day and I can't function. Yeah, it's the hangover. And then I'm like, dude, you wasted a whole day because you got hammered last night. Whereas I drink too much THC, I get the best night's sleep ever. Munchies maybe sleep an hour or two later, but who cares? I'm still up and ready to go. A hundred percent. So, Cliff, how did cannabis come into your life? How did that all start? And if you can tell me, like, what was your first time smoking like? Dude, I think the first time I smoked was actually with ⁓ my stepbrother at the time, and there was this kid named Jeremy down the street. ⁓ yeah. That had this tree house. Jeremy down the street. Super sick tree house, like AC, everything so sick. He had stolen a pack of cigarettes from his mom. Some like terrible Winston one hundreds. ⁓ yeah. And then he had a bag of some White Widow at the time, which was just like, bro, it smelled like seven up. It tasted like seven. It was like at the time, I was like, dude, this is nuts. Like that this is my first time smoking. And this way you pull out. And bro, that was, yeah, that was the first time. And then I think as a Was it out of a bong? Did you roll a joint or did you just like stuff a cigarette? I think we were just smoking out of his pipe. Yeah, okay. You know, I can't I can't really remember. I think a lot of my Childhood and early years have kind of disappeared from me for various reasons. Right, right, right. But you know, I think a lot of those things are really blurry. Yeah. So sometimes the details kind of slip me. ⁓ dude. I remember popping the back of the coat can with the with the screwdriver, popping some holes in the top. Which I would never now. ⁓ now I'm like thinking about, ⁓ my God, my pants have microplastics in them. Like, you know, that kind of stuff. And then back then I'm just like, bro, I didn't know. I mean whatever we can I wish it was White Widow. We were picking out seeds and stems. It was like mex it was like brickweed, pretty much, you know? Totally. ⁓ but we had this strain in Ohio called lemon G. And it's prominent in that state. And it's still to date one of my favorite turp profiles. Nice. If you ever have laser cat's lemon one ⁓ two, it's a lemon G cross with grape cookies. Okay. Phenomenal. Check it out. ⁓ phenomenal. But anyways. That was like my fifth time smoking. I got to try lemon G. And I'd never like it had such a huge lemon rind zest flavor to it. I like I remember it specifically. It went from like, ⁓ I think I kinda like camus cannabis to like obsessed. Yeah. And like now with rosin, I tell this to people all the time, I'm almost more obsessed with chasing the terps. Totally. Than I am necessarily the high that comes from it. Yep. Same. Yeah. I just even though that Backfires on me sometimes and I get shit. Boil boy, does it? Yes. Yes, I've been there plenty of times. But I got a sweet tooth. And I think that's why I chase those flavors. Yeah. It's because of that. Same. Like, dude, I eat dessert after every meal, you know? ⁓ do you really? Yeah. It's bad. What's the go to dessert? Dude, ice cream. What flavor? Like, ⁓ usually vanilla. ⁓ That's my go to. Vanilla bean? Or vanilla. Vanilla bean if I have the choice. ⁓ Love a good vanilla bean. Whenever me and the wife make a root beer float, vanilla bean is the base. Or fried ice cream. ⁓ my god. That's like my top. love that. Love that. Have you ever had the rolled ice cream? ⁓ yeah. Love that. Same. All of it. Any sweets. I'll take it all for real. I'm a I'm a creme brulee guy. ⁓ but creme brulee is so good. Hell yeah. And then a good affogato at the end of the meal. Can't beat it. Cannot. No. Can't be it. Dude, no, I I seek that every time we go on work trips, we're at trade shows. You're like, dude, you need help. And I'm like, I do. I do. You're requesting a dessert menu before you order dinner. Like, seriously, it's bad. It's bad. So where, you know, what's next for low temp, right? Like you guys just brought out the dispenser. That's the hottest market product in, you know, out right now. Do you guys, if you can talk about it, do you guys have next things in mind that you're Excited about that you can talk about or still a little bit under the I think we're always gonna push our existing product lines forward. So you know we're gonna come out with new versions that are have the latest and greatest tech. I think we're gonna continue to do that. We're gonna look at new opportunities in the space wherever they arise. I think we're gonna continue to build out the concentrate dispenser. Yes. Further automate that process down the line. And then we're gonna start looking at some of these other markets, like the European market's really starting to pick up some steam out there. Absolutely. And that's where we're really gonna start looking at how do we start pushing our products more there so low temp can have the same brand presence that we have in the US. I love that. You had told me once, I believe, that your mom uses cannabis to help her patients with fiber ⁓ fibrom I'm gonna fibromol. Fibromyalgia. So not her patients, her herself. ⁓ so yeah, she she used to use cannabis and that's kind of what got me interested in it. She would use it for her fibromyalgia, her Tourette's. She was bipolar. Really? Neurological issues. So she would use these to really help her cut down on her medications. You know, back when I was like fourteen, fifteen years old, I started to see this. Around that age, fifteen, sixteen, is when we started to consume cannabis together. Yeah. You know? ⁓ really? Kinda like sneaky. We'd have to hide it from my sister, 'cause like for some reason with sons and daughters, like sons play by a different set of rules. So like for my sister that would have never been acceptable. But for like us, when nobody was home, we'd sneak a little joint on the back porch. Shut up. Yeah. That's super sick. She was she This is back in the Arkansas days? This is back in the Arkansas days. Okay. Now so sh was she does she use cannabis like for inhalable consumption now or she like More on the gummy side now? Cause so she mostly in in inhalable products. Okay. So cartridges, flour. Yeah. You know, she passed away in September last year. So no longer with us, but she was one of the biggest potheads you've ever met. No kidding was awesome. Sounds like a rock star. Loved every minute of it. Sounds like a rock star. Now, so do you see other markets getting ready to emerge and be similar to America in terms of cannabis, or do you think we still have some years before we get Think we got some years before we get there, but I think it's important to remember that Europe has had a very strong hash culture ⁓ for a lot longer than the US. Absolutely. And so their their preferences are a little different as well. So you look at here in the US, what people are seeking is rosin cartridges, cold cured rosin. Not a lot of people fo smoke full melt or dry sift hash. Right. But you go over to Europe and that's all people are seeking. Is hash and sift and some of these other products that they're using as bull toppers or they're rolling spliffs. So different modes of consumption that I think are gonna be leading the space over there. But regardless, they've already got a huge hash culture there. So I think it's gonna be, I think it's gonna be huge. I don't think there's gonna be this massive, and I could be wrong, I'm probably wrong. Probably a little biased. I don't think there's gonna be this massive hydrocarbon market and industry there just because they started with hash. Right. They're not gonna go back. It doesn't make sense to me. But I could be wrong. I've been especially the cost of the equipment too. Yeah. Exactly. Let's talk about that. Dude, millions to build out a legit. Let's talk about that actually. Yeah. How much does it cost to build out a legit hydrocarbon extraction lab in comparison to a solventless lab? I would say, you know. On average, sure you can do it for less, but around a million dollars, even more for solventless, you could do it for less than 100K and have top-of-the-line state-of-the-art facility. Literally 10% of the total cost of a hydrocarbon lab, you can have a solventless lab. And it's it's important to remember too that like the barriers to entry aren't just the the cost of the equipment, right? The complexity of using them. Like you really need somebody that has a background and is highly knowledgeable in hydrocarbon extraction. And it you have to be really skilled to make really high quality BHO. Whereas with rosin, I think a lot of people think that, you know, solventless extraction and making hash is like killed for this that it's some art form, right? And for me, the art form is the cultivation. Yeah. Right? Fire and fire. Bring me the best flower in the world. I can show you how to make the best hash in the world in a day. But I can't teach you how to make the best flower in the world. It's just impossible. Mm-hmm. ⁓ No, that's a very, very good call out. ⁓ there's a a a little mini BHO versus rosin war going on right now online that I've noticed. It's really picked up some steam. Of you know, these, you know, very talented, passionate BHO makers that are like, Well, my my stuff's just as clean as rosin, parts per million, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But we all know what the solvents went in to make it versus just water hi water, ice, heat and pressure. Dude, I think a lot of those conversations for me are are cringe. Yeah. It's like this guy is saying this does better than this guy. I don't care. Yeah. There's a place for every to there's a guy trying to convince you of that at Nikan when I ran into you. Yes. You remember that? You were there. Yes, I was there. I like got there right as that conversation ended. I can see he's just like holding him eyes. He's a minute, this is better than any hash you've ever seen in your life. I'm like, bro, okay. Like, I don't know what you want me to say. But I I just am saying that there's a place for both. There's always gonna be a need for BHO. There's always gonna be a need for rosin and for hash. Just look at I mean, look at alcohol, right? You've got all these different types of beers. So what I drink. And then you got people popping bottles of Caemas. Absolutely. Absolutely. You need to have the levels. It can't just be all high end. You gotta have it for everybody, for all the different types of consumers. I think people forget, like, you know, we're not in the best economy. Like I think a lot of people in my space. When you go to go get gas for five bucks, it's hard to forget. Well, dude, and a lot of the people I work with, like, you know, they're trapping, they're making money, good money. And I think oftentimes we forget that there is a huge part of the population that's living paycheck to paycheck. They don't have money to go blow eighty dollars on a gram of rosin. ⁓ yeah. And I don't blame them. That's not a smart financial decision. Right. So it is important for them to have high quality, clean BHO that they can afford and still be able to use. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I'll never knock that. No, no, no, no. It's still cannabis, right? Yeah. Still cannabis. And I'll never knock that, as you just said. So, Cliff, we've talked about rosin. We've mentioned BHO as well. If you could help me out for the listeners out there that may not know what BHO is, can you just explain the difference between rosin and BHO? Totally. So BHO stands for butane hash oil. What you're doing, instead of snapping the trichom heads off, we're using the butane to dissolve the trichomes. And then it's basically creating a big mixture. Of your cannabinoids, your terpenes, and your butane. And then they're putting that into a vac oven traditionally to then pull a vacuum and apply some heat to off-gas the butane from the product and then leave behind your terpenes and cannabinoids. Excellent. Okay. So you can use it to make batters, waxes, all kinds of different textures, sugars. Okay. Excellent. Excellent. And so the main difference between the two is one is using a solvent. Yep. Usually a butane or sometimes is it CO2 can be used as well? So traditionally it's it's mostly butane that you can see on the market right now. But yeah, CO2 can be used. ⁓ people can use ethanol. Like there's several different ways to skin the cat, depending on what product you're trying to put out there. But rosin is just water, ice, heat, and pressure. Yep, exactly. Excellent. Excellent. Is low temp still offering the lifetime warranty? Yeah, on the press. On the press? On the press on this construction. Come on. Lifetime warranty on the press. Yep. And that's been going since day one. Yep. It's it's for the frame, the plates. I mean, dude, we've we've thrown this thing off of buildings, we've thrown it through cars, we've shot it with guns. Like we we do like Jack Guy style, like torture test videos. So you ought to go check some of those out on YouTube. They're nuts. Like our that's the sick thing about working for Levi. Like, dude, we can say whatever we want. We can do whatever we want. Love that. We don't have corporate overlords. Like if we want to go get AR fifteen's and just go. Last some presses. We do what we want. The next time you do that, can I get an invite? Like, yeah, I didn't even go to the last one. And I was I was like, ⁓ man, I can't believe I missed out on that. It looked so sick. So awesome. All right. Rapid fire. Favorite turp profile. Ooh, I don't know. Probably the favorite I've ever had was like some Poontang Pie. ⁓ I wish I could get that one back, that cut that I had, because it was just so nice. I literally just talking with a buddy who does his ⁓ home extraction back in Ohio. He told me he's got some Poontang Pie coming up. I love it. I still just, you know, still think about it frequently. Yeah. I think it's important to hold on to those. This is a quick tip for all the hash makers out there. Yes. Those cuts that you love right now, I know in a year from now you're gonna be like, ⁓ I'm gonna phase that out. It's kind of played out. Dude, 10 years from now, I promise you, you're gonna wish to God that you had that. That tissue cultured that, that you were holding on to that special Tissue culture is becoming very, very popular. I'm starting to see it in a lot more grows, at least in the markets that will allow it because as insane as it is, it's still, you know, regulations in different markets don't even allow it. It's crazy. That is insane. ⁓ I wasn't even aware of that. Yeah. Yeah. It's wild. Nuts. All right. ⁓ favorite consistency. Are you ⁓ full melt, fresh press, cold cure? Dude, I I'm gonna get killed for this again. Like I would say cold cure. Cold cure it's just easy. It's the simplicity. But that being said, I love when I get some true full melt full melt. Like I think people just think that anybody can make full melt with any any cultivar. Like it doesn't matter if you're the best hashmaker in the world. There's some cultivars that are never going to produce a really clean melt. And when I get my hands on that, it's just like a gift from the gods. ⁓ yeah. That's what it's nice. It's hard to find. I was you know what's funny? It's Rare to find fresh press now these days. I love a good fresh press dab. The turp profile is insane on it. Not that it's not on cold cure, but we know we're degrading those terps by cold curing it, right? ⁓ that fresh press. Although I don't even look at it though as degrading it. That's probably a bad word. I look at it's it's almost just changing it. Changing it. Like because they both have certain things that I like about them. Yeah. So for me, it's not even degrade. If you look at the numbers or the COA, maybe degrading percentages of turp, but I I wouldn't say it's all for the better though, because now you can literally have it wherever, keep it wherever. Totally. You don't have to worry about it buttering and then flipping and drying out, which I've had plenty of fresh press happen to me. ⁓ it's a risk to you as a brand providing fresh press because you can't rely on dispos to handle that properly. A hundred percent when they're putting freaking stickers on those jars. And they go they go take a lunch break or they go to the bathroom or a customer comes in. ⁓ absolutely. And my fresh press is sitting out there on the counter waiting to get freaking stickers on it. Great call out. It's a risk to your brand that, ⁓ somebody gets a you know, a jar that's it's hazy, it it's changed and it's really hard to deliver to the customer what you intend on delivering. That's a great, great call out. Great call. Or you have that time where you go to take a dab and you see this point two chunk just fly across the room. Dude, that's the worst. Yeah. It's like the Shatter days, you know? Exactly. Opening up an envelope of shatter and just poof. Good old Shatter days. ⁓ good. Yeah. Something I like to ask all of our guests. If you could make your own dialed in gummy flavor, any flavor, what would it be? Dude. Okay. Do you did you ever go to snow gum places when you were a kid? Of course. Okay, do you know the dragon's blood? Yeah. In the wedding cake? Yeah. If you could do a half and half dragon blood wedding cake, that would be so fun. Shout out to the snow cone spots. Those those are rare now. That would be heat. Those are rare. Please do that. Please. Wow. ⁓ God. I haven't had a snow cone in so long. Neither neither have I. ⁓ Let's go. Nah, yeah, let's go. Let's take some of the syrup and make our own. Say less. Say less. I know what we're doing tonight. Let's run. And some vanilla ice cream. We can pour the syrup over that too. Let's go. Vanilla bean. Vanilla bean. Exactly. Cliff, ⁓ where can people find out more information about low temp? What's the handle on the Instagram? What's the website? Where's the best source of truth for people that want to learn more about what you guys are doing? Totally. So if you go to IG, we're at low temp.industries, that's really the home. That's where we post everything. You know, you go to our YouTube channel, type in low temp industries, we've still got some good content there, but Instagram is where you're gonna find all the good stuff. Yeah. So that's where I would recommend it. And again, what was the IG handle? Low temp dot industries. Low temp dot industries. Okay. Excellent. Excellent. Cliff, it's been amazing having you on, getting to tell the low temp story, getting to tell a little tidbits about yourself and your journey as well into cannabis. And, you know, I'm just super grateful that we've got companies like you that care so much about making a product that it lasts forever, gives amazing quality output for the consumer, for the company. And then, you know. Just continuing to make it better and better every year. Thank you. I appreciate you, man. Absolutely platform for sure. My man, my man. Cliff, thank you.