Mark Ireland – The Persistence of the Soul

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My name is Victor Furman. Some
call me the Voice. I've always been
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fascinated with human nature, spirituality,
science and the crossroads at which they meet.
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Join me now and we will explore
these topics and so much more with
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fascinating guests, authors and experts who
will guide us to Destination Unlimited. Is
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their evidence of the continuity of consciousness
after physical death? How might that evidence
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bring comfort to the bereaved, especially
parents who have lost children. My guest
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this week on Destination Unlimited, Mark
Ireland, sought this evidence after the passing
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of his youngest son. He was
able to connect with his son's essence and
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observed a variety of phenomenon supporting the
survival hypothesis. This led him on a
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profound personal journey and deep dive into
psychic medium phenomena, spirit visitations, afterlife
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communication, reincarnation and near death experiences
pointing to the post mortem survival of consciousness.
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Mark is also co founder of Helping
Parents Heal, an organization with twenty
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four thousand members that assist berief parents
worldwide. His website is markirelandauthor dot com,
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and he joins me this week to
share his path and latest book,
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Persistence of the soul, mediums,
spirit visitations, and afterlife communication. Please
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join me in welcoming to Destination Unlimited, Mark, Ireland. Welcome Mark.
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Hey, it's great to be here, Vickor. Thanks for having me,
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and thank you so much for joining
us today and sharing a message that I
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think is so important for so many. So let's start by asking you what
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motivated you to investigate and write about
mediumship and afterlife evidence. Well, actually,
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unlike a lot of folks in my
position, I grew up with a
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father who was a pretty prominent psychic
and medium. His prominence was from the
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fifties through the eighties primarily, and
so I saw this phenomenon in daily life
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where you know, the psychic part
of it, you couldn't get away with
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anything at home, and then you
know, in his own church where he
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would demonstrate these abilities I guess as
validation of the gifts of the spirit,
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and then in secular venues as wells
doing psychic demonstrations but also periodically having spirit
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communication pop through. So as a
young kid, I saw this. So
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I looked at this and said,
there is something more. You know.
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I don't understand exactly how it works, but clearly when people die they still
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exist in some form and could communicate. So having grown up like that,
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I didn't necessarily want to be my
dad or like him, who wants to
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be their parent anyhow when they grew
up, So I took a more conventional
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path. I went to college,
got a degree, got married at a
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young age, and had a couple
of kids and was just kind of going
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down the normal American lifestyle kind of
thing and with career as the focus.
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But unexpectedly, my eighteen year old
son passed. And it was a day
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when he was going to go on
a hike on the mountains in the McDonald
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Mountains in Scottsdale, Arizona, which
was behind our home. And I had
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an uneasy feeling, almost like a
premonition feeling, and tried to talk him
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out of going, but there was
no stopping him. And he's like,
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the last words he ever said to
me were we're going, dad, you
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know, implying stop your worrying,
you know. So he went on this
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hike with buddies and he ended up
without dragging this out, he ended up
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passing away. His best friend had
reported that he was that brand and my
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son had felt like his heart was
beating rapidly and his arms were kind of
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numb, and then he tried to
revive Stu tried to revive Brandon but was
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unsuccessful. We were away from home
at the time. We rushed back after
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getting a call and by the time
we got there there were a horde of
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spectators, firetruck, ambulance and helicopter
and we were informed within a short period
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of time that he had passed.
So that's really what drew me back into
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it. By that point in my
life, my dad had been gone for
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a number of years, about twelve, I believe, but my uncle was
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still alive and he had ability similar
to my father, and he's one of
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the first people I called and I
asked him. He asked if he could
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do anything to help me, and
just said, if you get any kind
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of message, I'd really appreciate it. And it was probably three days later
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when I was in the ortuary making
arrangements that we connected by cell and at
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that point we had no cause of
death. But my uncle said, you
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know, Mark, I tried to
connect last night and I couldn't get anything.
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But in my morning meditation today,
your dad came to me. He
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wanted to let you know that he
was there when Brandon passed. Brandon was
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a little confused at first, but
your dad helped him adjust. Brandon wanted
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you to know that you're the best
parents he ever could have had, which
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is the fuzzy, nice, warm
thing we like to hear. But then
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he said your father's Your dad said
that Brandon's death was caused by a lack
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of oxygen in his bloodstream that caused
his heart to fail. That was the
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evidence piece, because two days later
I got a call from the physician who
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had conducted the autopsy, and she
told me that Brandon had suffered a severe
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asthma attack which drove his blood oxygen
levels down, causing cardiac arrest. So
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I got the cause of death two
days before the autopsy results from my uncle
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through means other than physical examination.
So that was really the, I guess,
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the starting point for what drew me
back into the field. Let's address
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a little bit more about your dad
and your uncle. What was it like
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growing up with him? You had
mentioned the fact that you didn't want to
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be like your dad, but what
was it like having him in your life?
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It was pretty wonderful. He was
a gregarious person who people loved and
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followed some of them. You know, he had people who tried to mooch
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off of him, I guess you
would say, but he also he was
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just very interesting and having this ability
is just one facet of him, because
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just as a human, he was
just a very caring, loving person who
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gave to others, in fact to
a point where it was even frustrating the
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family members. At times. He
brings a stranger in off the street or
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whatever to stay with us for a
while if someone was in distress or in
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a bad spot. So he really
tried to live christ Like life, I
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guess in many ways, not that
he was perfect by any means, but
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he was a good person, a
caring person. It was very interesting,
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you know, just to see how
he would affect the lives of others.
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I remember one time walking into a
living room when he was he had just
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done a reading for Amanda Blake,
who played Miss Kitty on Gunsmoke, and
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she was just crying, but they
were like happy tears, so I could
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tell she'd really been touched. My
dad counseled other celebrities like May West.
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I got to meet her when I
was nineteen years old and tour her apartment.
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You know and so, And I
even have a card from Mamie Eisenhower
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from dated nineteen fifty six congratulating my
dad on behalf of the president and her.
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That's when my parents got married.
So it was just an interesting mix
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of his church, which was non
denominational. It was really a place where
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he called it the University of Life. He wanted to have it be a
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very open forum type of place,
pushing forth a lot of dogma, but
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more letting people form their own opinions
and views based on their experiences, and
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then demonstrating the abilities that he had. And then in secular venues he branched
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out and did you know TV shows, nightclubs, all kinds of things,
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demonstrating psychic phenomena, really to open
people's minds to the possibility that were more
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than just a brain and a body. So that was my dad a very
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unique individual. What were some of
the most evidential stories you can share about
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your dad's abilities. Sure, I'll
tell you. I've had a lot of
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people come to me after the fact
years later, and I'm putting these together
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in another book later on. I
think one of the most startling that really
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twists you're thinking about the nature of
time and space comes from a woman named
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Norma Polling. So I was doing
a talk a number of years ago and
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she approached me and said, hey, Mark, I've got a story for
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you about your dad. She actually
gave me a typewritten piece of paper with
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the whole story written. But then
she told me the story. She said,
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I first saw your dad in nineteen
sixty three. It was a psychic
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demonstration. And what he would do
is take ten strips of Johnson Johnson white
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medical tape, which if anyone hasn't
used that or seen it, it's extremely
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sticky, the adhesa is very strong, and it's completely, I believe,
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completely opaque. So he would take
these strips, cover his eyes and then
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put three black blindfolds over that,
and then more tape over that down covering
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the bottom of the blindfold, so
no one would think that he could see
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downward. It was really overkilled.
But then he would ask people to write
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questions on pieces of paper. Those
would be collected by someone and then delivered
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to him in a basket. So
this woman, Normal Polling, was my
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dad was completely blindfolded at this point
or in the process of blindfoldings, and
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she's trying to think about what to
ask as a question, so she thought
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of two different possibilities. One was
will I have a fourth child? Or
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will I get my map master's degree? So she ended up just writing the
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one about the master's degree. She
sent it up and near the end he
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had answered the question and said,
yes, you're going to get your master's
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degree, which was great. You
know, she actually did get the master's
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degree. But then five years later
she went back to see him a second
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time and wrote an entirely new question, and when she sent it up,
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he later answered her and said,
oh, Norma, norma polling, I
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see you had that fourth child.
So that was a question she'd only thought
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of five years ago but never wrote
down. Pretty wild. You have another
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example, sure, So this is
one of my favorites, and people really
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like this one. So on one
occasion before I met my before I married
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my wife, actually on our second
date, I was nineteen years old.
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I went to pick her up and
I asked her if she'd like to go
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see my dad's demonstration. She said
yes, So we went there and I
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was running like so by the time
we got there, he was already blindfolded
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and giving messages to people. So
I encouraged my wife, my wife to
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be, who was just my second
date at the time, Susie, to
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write a question down. So she
wrote, when will my mother get married?
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And at this time her mom was
divorced from her dad, but she
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had been dating a man for a
number of years but had been noncommittal,
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so that's why she asked the question. So she sends that question up,
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and a bit later, my dad
says, Susie sap soup soap and her
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last name was Sip. And she
says, here, this is me,
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you know, And he says,
uh, I think you've asked me a
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question about your mother once you'll get
married. Well, I don't know about
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your mother, my dear, but
you've made your choice of men. He's
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with you tonight. Then I piped. Then I piped up into the dad
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Susie's my date, and he says, Oh, my gosh, I guess
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I just married off my own son. That's so wonderful story. Thank you
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for sharing that. Yeah about here, Plater, we got married. That's
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a wonderful thank you. With reference
to the Eisenhowers, did he actually do
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a reading for the Eisenhowers? You
know, I can't say because you were
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very secret about some of those things
over the years. I got the impression
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that he may have counseled other people
in the government at different times, but
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he was tight lipped about it.
Maybe he had to be I don't really
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know. I would have to assume
that he must have counseled at least maybe.
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I don't know if he counseled the
president as well. Otherwise, how
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would she have known him, Why
would she be sending him this card.
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So it's kind of a puzzle at
this point. But my assumption here is
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that he must have counseled them because
of that. Now, you mentioned your
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father. Obviously you said that your
uncle was also psychic. Were there other
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psychic people in your family? Yeah, it does, you know, I
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think a lot of people that researched
this field have determined that there seems follows
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family lines a lot of the time. My grandmother, my dad's mom,
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ended up being a trance medium,
so and then she founded her own church
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in Ashley, Ohio, which is
a suburb of Columbus, and my dad's
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grandmother, I guess read tea leaves
back in the city, so it does
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follow suit. And I've had my
own experiences. My dad always said I
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was very psychic. I never really
viewed myself as such because I felt like,
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how can I match with that,
you know, that standard. But
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I've had, you know, when
I've made an effort at it, I
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have, you know, been able
to produce some significant results. And oftentimes
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it's been more spontaneous though with me, because I've not really worked at it.
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But yes, it has gone through
our family and even on my mom's
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side a little bit too. My
aunt was pretty psychic, my aunt Gloria,
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my mom's sister, and my mom
to some degree, I would say
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too. But I think it just
in people. It varies the level of
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ability. And then the other part
of it is do they work to develop
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it or not. Which of the
Claires did your family share? Oh?
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Boy? Well, I think for
my dad it was a cross section of
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Claire, williance, Claire, audience, telepathy. It was all of them,
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and I think that's what made his
ability so strong. For I would
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say for the others, I can't
really say, because I don't know that
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I asked my grandmother about that specifically. For I can tell you for me,
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when I've had it happen, it's
really two different things. I would
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say, it's Claire Wallance. For
sure, I have to close my eyes.
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I'll give you an example, and
this one's more personal. So really,
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even before after my son Brandon passed, before I contacted my uncle,
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the first thing I did was I
wanted a direct connection with my son.
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So I went into a darkened room
which is actually my walking closet, shut
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the door, and then just tried
to quietly meditate. So my mind went
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pretty blank, and I the first
thing I visualized, kind of in my
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mind's eye was my son brand and
glowing like smiling, happy, but with
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a glow around him. And then
right after that was a symbol which was
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a cross with an over loop at
the top. At the time, I'd
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seen those, but I didn't know
what they meant, So being somewhat analytical,
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I had to then go to Google
type in you know, across with
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oval loop atop to find out that
that's an AUNC, which is the oldest
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cross of human history, tied to
the Egyptians, probably five thousand years old
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or thereabouts, with the lower portion
of the cross representing physical life and the
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oval loop representing internal life. So
what I got there was kind of a
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coded message that my son still existed
and was happy and joyful. Had I
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already known what that symbol meant,
then I could have second guessed it and
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said, well, that's my subconscious
trying to comfort me. Now. In
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addition, I'd say, I guess
you could call this Claire audience. I'm
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not really sure. I think the
mediums I've interviewed who are Claire audience,
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very few of them actually here in
an auditory way through theirs. Some of
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them will hear in their mind,
and some will just have like an idea
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pop in. So a few years
ago, for a three year stint,
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I was speaking at this church in
San Francisco is called the Goldigate Spiritualist Church,
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who was founded in nineteen twenty four
by a woman named Florence Becker,
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who, by all accounts was similar
to my father in abilities. She passed
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and I believe nineteen seventy. And
when I did these talks over this three
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year stint, I was accompanied by
Tina Powers, a really good medium friend
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from Tucson. So this one of
those trips Tina was saying to me,
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Mark, I think you're going to
get a message, will you share it
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with the congregation and I said,
well, sure, if I get something,
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I'll share it, And so she
kept bugging me about this. So
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you promised to share it? Yes, I promise, And even the day
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walking into the church, she's like, Mark, if you get a message,
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will you share it. I'm like
yes. So we're about thirty minutes
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early. I go sit down in
their healing room. I sit on a
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bench for a piano or an organ, and I tried to quiet my mind
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and actually I'm able to get it
like totally blank, which is pretty rare
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for me, much like the other
experience I just described. But it's blank.
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I'm just sitting there, relaxing,
trying to prep you know, just
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not quiet my mind before the talk. But all of a sudden, the
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name pops into my mind. Max
And then immediately after Maxine, I thought,
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oh maybe it's Maxine or not Max. Now I didn't hear it,
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I didn't see it. It came
to me like an idea would come to
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you or a memory would come to
you. That's it. It just just
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popped in. So when it was
my turn to talk, I gave the
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talk and then at the end I
said, Tina made me promise to share
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anything I might get so I have
to ask if the name is Max or
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Maxine mean anything to anyone here,
and the pastor of the church is jaw
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dropped, and he said, well, Max and Maxine were twins that were
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born to the church founder of Florence
Becker. They were delivered stillborn and grew
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up in spirit. He said that
only a few people long term church members
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know this, and then he took
me upstairs afterward to show me a painting
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that I believe is done by Florence
Beckert. Was a landscape with a whining
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road and two little figures at the
end. He says, that's Max and
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Maxine. So first, now you
know, in hindsight, I could say,
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now I know why Tina pushed me
so hard to say that, because
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the way it came to me was
so subtle that I could have just dismissed
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it as my imagination and gone on. But to have not one, but
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two names that aren't that common,
you know, together was pretty long odds.
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So that's how it worked for me. So I would say, I
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guess you could call that clare audience. Even though I didn't hear anything,
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it just popped in. Maybe it
would be telepathy telepathy with a deceased In
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nineteen seventy five, I was in
the Air Force. I was stationed in
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Korea, and one morning I woke
up and I heard in my head,
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and this is the way I get
it. I get clare audience, but
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I don't hear it a sound externally. I hear it within my head of
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voice. And it said, you
have to call your mother back in New
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York or something wrong and she needs
to hear from you. And whenever that
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voice would speak to me, I
would always respond in kind. I learned
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to differentiate between the ego voice,
which is the voice that sort of shouts
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at you, and the softer voice, the reassuring voice that says, this
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is what you really need to do. And so consequently I'd call back to
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New York, six thousand miles away. And in those days, we had,
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as you know, extension telephones,
and my sister and mother picked up
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the phone simultaneously, and I said, Mom, what's wrong? And I
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heard my sister say, oh,
my god, how did he find out?
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And it turned out that she was
scheduled for major surgery the next day,
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and the voice told me to share
with her that the surgery would be
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a complete success, she'd have a
full recovery and everything would be fine.
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And I shared that with her.
Obviously, everything that I said transpired,
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and that conversation, that call reassured
her and made her feel really good.
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So that's one of the gifts of
spirit that I'm grateful for, that the
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inner voice that has guided me at
many different times during my life. I
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think that every human being, every
sentient being, has within them capacity for
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some of these gifts. Do you
Yeah, that was just like Socrates there,
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but that's also I'm not familiar with
that story. Oh, just that
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he had a voice that always told
him what to do and kept him out
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of trouble on the on the right
path. Ah, I didn't love it.
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It's his damon, but which is
not the same as a demon.
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But yeah, that he had a
voice that always guided him to do what
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needed to be done to make the
right decision. So yeah, but yeah,
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I do think that my dad felt
that. I think everyone has this
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to some degree. The gifts are
varied. I mean, some people maybe
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have healing gifts. Other people may
have, you know, an intuition some
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and I think that this is broader
too. Even like my dad felt the
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creative endeavors are closely related to some
of these abilities, like music or art,
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so people that do those things that
kind of opens them up more.
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I just think that in terms of
intuition, psychic abilities, mediumship, there's
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kind of you have X amount of
natural aptitude, and I think some have
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more than others, just like athletes, you know, some athletes are better
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than others. Others make it to
the pros through hard work. They're not
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as talented or gifted, but they
can still get there. So I view
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it as like there's people that are
the very best, you know, and
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one of them that I know today
is Gordon Smith, who's a medium out
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of Scotland's just phenomenal. He's the
closest thing to my dad that I've seen.
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And then there are others that are
very good. But I think his
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is a case of having a lot
of natural aptitude but also really training and
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development and commitment to it. Back
in my dad's day, you know,
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I think it was a different world
and the people that were in that area
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through usually through spiritualism. Then now
it's broader. Would you know, they
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didn't have smartphones, they didn't watch
TV, they had a lot more quiet
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time and they were very dedicated.
It took a lot of time and work
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to get to that point and meditation, you know, eventually my dad figured
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out two meditations at fifteen minutes of
crack per day was really what worked for
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him. But I do think everybody
has it to some degree. And even
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if you just use it to give
yourself guidance, so you're not always seeking
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outwardly asking for reassurance or guidance someone
to do. You can hear that still
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inner voice that guides you to making
good decisions. There's something to that and
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I think it can benefit anyone absolutely. My guest is Mark Ireland. We're
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going to be talking about his new
book, The Resistance of the Soul,
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00:22:37.319 --> 00:22:42.440
Mediums, Spirit Visitations and After Life
Communication. Mark, please share with our
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00:22:42.480 --> 00:22:47.079
listeners that can get your books and
find out more about you. Yeah.
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00:22:47.160 --> 00:22:51.559
My website has links to all the
places that sell it, including Amazon,
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00:22:51.599 --> 00:22:55.920
Barnes and Noble and others, and
it's available in eleven countries on Amazon It.
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00:22:56.319 --> 00:23:00.119
My website is Mark Ireland author dot
com that's marked with a K Ireland
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00:23:00.240 --> 00:23:06.160
like the country and author markirelandauthor dot
com. And we'll be back with more
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00:23:06.160 --> 00:23:10.839
of Mark after these words on the
own Times Radio network, The Cutting Edge
321
00:23:10.880 --> 00:23:15.519
of Conscious Radio ome Times Radio IOMFM. Ome Times Magazine is one of the
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00:23:15.640 --> 00:23:22.240
leading online content providers of positivity,
wellness and personal empowerment. A philanthropic organization,
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00:23:22.599 --> 00:23:29.440
their net proceeds are finaled to support
worldwide charity initiatives via Humanity Healing International.
324
00:23:29.599 --> 00:23:33.359
Through their commitment to creating community and
providing conscious content, they aspire to
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00:23:33.480 --> 00:23:40.240
uplift humanity on a global scale.
Home Times co creating a more conscious lifestyle.
326
00:23:41.240 --> 00:23:45.759
Back on Destination Unlimited. My guest
this week is Mark Ireland. We're
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00:23:45.799 --> 00:23:49.559
going to be talking about his new
book, The Persistence of the Soul Mediums,
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00:23:49.680 --> 00:23:55.559
Spirit Visitations and After Life Communication.
Mark, tell us about your first
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book, Soul Shift. Yes,
Soul Shift was really a recounting of the
330
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journey we talked about in the first
segment, the journey I took after my
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son Brandon passed. It was kind
of reintroducing myself to the field my father
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had been in that I always saw
and grew up with. But I don't
333
00:24:12.279 --> 00:24:15.480
want to say I abandoned, but
I wasn't really engaged in it for quite
334
00:24:15.519 --> 00:24:21.480
a few years. And what you
know, I think the first part,
335
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I talk about Brandon, and you
build tell people what he was like and
336
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what he was all about. Very
good kid, good hearted, friendly towards
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00:24:30.400 --> 00:24:33.799
people who aren't popular, and all
that. Just an old soul, i'd
338
00:24:33.839 --> 00:24:37.400
say, you know, in terms
of how you define people and what they're
339
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like. And so from there I
talked about, you know, the day
340
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that they passed, and then some
of the experiences that happened after that,
341
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and then my introduction to four top
mediums, my engagement with an experiment at
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00:24:51.200 --> 00:24:55.720
the University of Arizona who was testing
mediums at the time. So I guess
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to get there, I'll give you
a couple of tidbits. So early on,
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00:25:00.440 --> 00:25:03.279
I think two weeks after Brandon passed, I went to an intuitive and
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one of the things she said was, I believe you're going to see Brandon
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at the side of your bed in
about six months. So six months later,
347
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we did go on a cruise.
So my wife and I we took
348
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our older son, Steven, and
then we took Stu, who was Brandon's
349
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best friend. This was going to
be Brandon's high school graduation gift to go
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on this cruise, but since he
couldn't physically go with us. We took
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Stu the day that we got back. Now I guess before I jumped to
352
00:25:32.799 --> 00:25:37.720
that. Before we left the trip, we loan Brandon's bass guitar because Brandon
353
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was a bassist to a friend named
James Linton. James was a musician,
354
00:25:41.440 --> 00:25:45.440
guitar player, composer, singer,
and he had an in home studio he
355
00:25:45.480 --> 00:25:48.160
was recording some music and he asked
if he could borrow the bass before we
356
00:25:48.279 --> 00:25:52.720
left, and so we did loan
it to him. And we'd met James
357
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because he had actually been on the
mountain the day Brandon passed. He had
358
00:25:56.559 --> 00:26:00.160
come to the area where Brandon was
laying on his back and wanted to help,
359
00:26:00.240 --> 00:26:03.279
but he was too late. So
he was really frustrated by that,
360
00:26:03.400 --> 00:26:06.240
and he told me that he asked
God, like, well, why do
361
00:26:06.319 --> 00:26:07.839
you put me here in this situation? I can't even help this kid.
362
00:26:08.799 --> 00:26:14.759
So we found him because he had
written a response on an online obituary and
363
00:26:14.799 --> 00:26:18.279
said that he had been there that
day and if we wanted to reach out
364
00:26:18.279 --> 00:26:21.640
to him, he gave his contact
information. So anyhow we became friends.
365
00:26:21.680 --> 00:26:25.920
We met him and became friends,
and so this is again six months afterward,
366
00:26:26.240 --> 00:26:29.880
after Brandon's passing, We go on
the cruise, we come back the
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00:26:29.960 --> 00:26:33.119
day that we're Just as we get
home, my wife is actually sitting at
368
00:26:33.119 --> 00:26:38.079
the foot of our bed and she
feels Brandon's presence and she sees a shadow
369
00:26:38.119 --> 00:26:42.680
figure out of her peripheral vision that
she knows is him. Now here's what
370
00:26:42.799 --> 00:26:47.000
really makes the story even more compelling. The very next day, we get
371
00:26:47.000 --> 00:26:49.759
a call from James Linton and he
says, Susie, I've got something to
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00:26:49.799 --> 00:26:52.000
tell you, but I don't know
how to tell you. And she's like,
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well, she was afraid he'd broken
the bass or something, but he
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00:26:55.839 --> 00:26:59.720
says, well, I was recording
a song and while I was sitting there,
375
00:27:00.279 --> 00:27:03.519
a presence in there with me,
and I saw a shadow figure out
376
00:27:03.519 --> 00:27:07.440
of my peripheral vision, and I
saw flashes of white light, and I
377
00:27:07.440 --> 00:27:10.559
thought I was hallucinating. So I
went and got water, I got food,
378
00:27:10.640 --> 00:27:12.720
I took a shower, but each
time I came back it got stronger.
379
00:27:14.039 --> 00:27:18.000
Now keep in mind, James didn't
know about Susie's experience. He's just
380
00:27:18.079 --> 00:27:22.759
telling his experience at this point.
He then finally gave in and said,
381
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okay, Brandon, what do you
want? And he said at that point
382
00:27:26.720 --> 00:27:30.640
he felt guided to redo the lyrics
of this song and the bassline specifically,
383
00:27:32.519 --> 00:27:34.880
and at the end of it,
it ended up being a song called The
384
00:27:34.920 --> 00:27:37.359
Other Side. He said, this
is the best song I've ever written,
385
00:27:37.480 --> 00:27:41.720
but I didn't write it, so
that was pretty compelling. That was one
386
00:27:41.759 --> 00:27:47.519
of the early experiences that happened.
Another thing that kind of led me into
387
00:27:47.559 --> 00:27:49.279
the path of meeting some of the
researchers in the field, and I'm friends
388
00:27:49.279 --> 00:27:52.839
with a few of them. Now
I know a few of them as well
389
00:27:52.880 --> 00:27:57.400
as the top mediums. Going back
to just three weeks after Brandon's passing,
390
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I was watching my news clip on
the NBC affiliate in Phoenix about a research
391
00:28:03.240 --> 00:28:06.680
study being done at the University of
Arizona, you know, one of the
392
00:28:06.720 --> 00:28:11.599
few that would actually look into mediumship
or psychic phenomena. And what they had
393
00:28:11.640 --> 00:28:14.839
going on there was they had a
medium who was little known at the time
394
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but later became a big name,
Alison Dubois, because of the show Medium.
395
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She was being tested with some test
sitters. Now sitters are the people
396
00:28:23.960 --> 00:28:29.240
who received the reading, and she
couldn't see them visually, and she couldn't
397
00:28:29.279 --> 00:28:32.839
and they couldn't talk to her,
but a third party of proxy was asking
398
00:28:32.880 --> 00:28:37.279
her questions and she was doing really
well, it appeared. And then at
399
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the end they debriefed with the sitters, and I was really impressed because there
400
00:28:41.240 --> 00:28:45.279
was a lot of specific information,
not just generalities, but specific information pertaining
401
00:28:45.279 --> 00:28:49.720
to people who had passed that were
close to the sitters, and a thing,
402
00:28:49.880 --> 00:28:52.799
you know, characteristics about them,
what they liked to do, where
403
00:28:52.799 --> 00:28:56.519
they like to go, all these
kinds of things that were all validated.
404
00:28:56.119 --> 00:28:59.799
And I thought to myself, cheese, I'd love to get a reading from
405
00:28:59.839 --> 00:29:02.680
her someday, and I'd love to
be a sitter in that lab. Well.
406
00:29:02.720 --> 00:29:04.000
The very next day, I get
a call from a man named Jerry
407
00:29:04.039 --> 00:29:08.359
Concer, who had been a close
friend of my father's, and Jerry says
408
00:29:08.400 --> 00:29:11.160
to me, Hey, Mark,
I know what you've been through, and
409
00:29:11.200 --> 00:29:15.400
I know someone who might be able
to help you. Her name's Alison Dubois
410
00:29:15.079 --> 00:29:18.480
and here's the phoneum, you can
call to get a reading from her.
411
00:29:18.039 --> 00:29:22.079
So that seemed rather synchronistic to me, like my dad was trying to help
412
00:29:22.160 --> 00:29:26.079
out from the other side. So
I did eventually get that reading, and
413
00:29:26.119 --> 00:29:30.119
then a year later I was in
that lab as well. As a test
414
00:29:30.119 --> 00:29:34.240
sitter with another medium, Lori Campbell. But I did go on and have
415
00:29:34.279 --> 00:29:38.400
a series of readings with Alison,
with a man named Jamie Clark, with
416
00:29:38.519 --> 00:29:44.480
a prominent English medium Linda Williamson,
and then finally with Lori Campbell in the
417
00:29:44.559 --> 00:29:48.319
lab. So I chronicle all these
different things that happened. There's a lot
418
00:29:48.319 --> 00:29:53.000
of synchronicity, there's a lot of
validations in the readings, and a lot
419
00:29:53.039 --> 00:29:59.720
of the information overlapped. There was
consistency there too, So it was that's
420
00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:03.160
that's kind of the long and short
of what Soul Shift was about. It
421
00:30:03.200 --> 00:30:08.319
was a memoir, you know,
a personal journey that really brought me to
422
00:30:08.359 --> 00:30:14.119
a place of greater peace and understanding. And then subsequently, I know the
423
00:30:14.119 --> 00:30:17.200
book has been helped really healing for
a lot of folks around the world.
424
00:30:17.240 --> 00:30:22.519
I've even had people write to me
and say they had contemplated taking their own
425
00:30:22.519 --> 00:30:26.640
life, read the book and then
decided not to. They felt more hopeful
426
00:30:26.119 --> 00:30:30.799
and saw a purpose in life at
that point, and that you know,
427
00:30:30.839 --> 00:30:36.599
they're better off not doing that.
And what inspired your new book, The
428
00:30:36.680 --> 00:30:41.839
Persistence of the Soul. So this, you know, it's really a blend
429
00:30:41.880 --> 00:30:45.720
of two things. I wanted to
write a more scholarly book because I wanted
430
00:30:45.759 --> 00:30:51.519
to address some of these issues,
like extreme skepticism, which is really the
431
00:30:51.559 --> 00:30:56.480
debunker type of skepticism, which isn't
open minded skepticism. It's not really skepticism
432
00:30:56.519 --> 00:31:00.200
at all, because skepticism is supposed
to be an open minded inquiry, inquiry
433
00:31:00.599 --> 00:31:07.400
to determine truth or following the evidence, so I wanted to address that.
434
00:31:07.519 --> 00:31:12.680
I also know that there were a
lot of folks in more fundamentalist religious back
435
00:31:12.799 --> 00:31:19.039
with more fundamentalist religious backgrounds who have
a problem with these phenomena and are afraid
436
00:31:19.079 --> 00:31:25.079
of them because of maybe what they've
been told or just traditional thinking within their
437
00:31:25.160 --> 00:31:29.640
churches. So I wanted to dive
deeper and address that through looking at scripture
438
00:31:30.319 --> 00:31:33.160
and working through that. But I
also wanted to keep the personal stories going
439
00:31:33.200 --> 00:31:36.720
too, like I had with Soul
Shift. So it's a combination of two
440
00:31:36.759 --> 00:31:41.039
things. So it's really almost like
two books in one. It's intended to
441
00:31:41.079 --> 00:31:45.400
be educational, so I'm giving personal
stories and examples of various phenomena supportive of
442
00:31:45.799 --> 00:31:51.839
the idea that we do that our
personality, our soul survives physical death.
443
00:31:52.440 --> 00:31:56.079
But then also the history and the
science to support it where possible. So
444
00:31:56.119 --> 00:32:00.119
I go back and talk about the
early cases through the Society of Psychical Research
445
00:32:00.680 --> 00:32:07.319
and some of the best evidence for
this over the years. I'm mingled with
446
00:32:07.920 --> 00:32:13.119
my personal experiences. I talk in
there. I detail an experiment that I
447
00:32:13.160 --> 00:32:17.599
did with my sister Robin before her
passing. I have a chapter touching on
448
00:32:20.079 --> 00:32:24.000
reincarnation as an issue. I interview
two psychic mediums too, because a lot
449
00:32:24.000 --> 00:32:29.200
of people, if they get a
reading or they hear psychic medium talk about
450
00:32:29.200 --> 00:32:31.359
their experiences. The medium may say, oh, I see this or I'm
451
00:32:31.400 --> 00:32:36.359
being told this, but really,
what does that mean? What's the experience
452
00:32:36.440 --> 00:32:39.039
like? So I dive deeper into
that to get that firsthand experience from them,
453
00:32:39.039 --> 00:32:43.880
like, well, what is this
when you say you heard from spirit
454
00:32:43.960 --> 00:32:45.759
or you saw spirit? What does
that mean for you? So I get
455
00:32:45.799 --> 00:32:51.720
into that. So it's kind of
a cross section of a scholarly book and
456
00:32:51.759 --> 00:32:54.839
a book of personal experiences. So
if someone is more just I don't care
457
00:32:54.839 --> 00:32:59.319
about the science, I just want
to read the stories, they can they
458
00:32:59.319 --> 00:33:02.519
can skip just to those parts.
Conversely, if someone's more just interested in
459
00:33:02.559 --> 00:33:07.200
the science and the scholarly part of
it, they could just read that and
460
00:33:07.359 --> 00:33:10.079
some people want to read it all. So that's really where that book came
461
00:33:10.119 --> 00:33:15.680
from. And I've had some really
good endorsements from a number of people in
462
00:33:15.720 --> 00:33:21.559
the field, Stanley Kripner, who's
been a parapsychologist for quite a few decades,
463
00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:25.279
Larry Dacy, Alison did Wagho,
I mentioned earlier, the late guy
464
00:33:25.640 --> 00:33:34.240
Lion Playfair who was with the spr
and a number of others. So that's
465
00:33:34.240 --> 00:33:37.200
what that book's about. You had
mentioned that experiment you conducted with your younger
466
00:33:37.240 --> 00:33:42.160
sister. Can you explain that process
without giving away the outcome? Sure,
467
00:33:42.400 --> 00:33:47.079
be happy to. So my sister
been diagnosed with pancreatic cancer which metastasize to
468
00:33:47.119 --> 00:33:51.759
her liver. She had a finite
period of time to be here on the
469
00:33:51.759 --> 00:33:55.319
earth in a physical body, probably
a year or less. So as we
470
00:33:55.359 --> 00:34:00.240
were getting closer to the end,
she was in hospice care and I I
471
00:34:00.279 --> 00:34:02.079
was thinking about, you know,
is there something we could do to help
472
00:34:02.200 --> 00:34:07.799
people have more confidence that life goes
on after, you know, physical death.
473
00:34:07.400 --> 00:34:12.280
So I thought about what kind of
experiment we could do, and I
474
00:34:12.360 --> 00:34:15.800
kind of went back to the Houdini
code. Now, a lot of people
475
00:34:15.800 --> 00:34:19.679
may or may not know this,
But Harry Houdini was a debunker or tried
476
00:34:19.679 --> 00:34:22.159
to debunk mediums, but at the
same time he must have had some measure
477
00:34:22.159 --> 00:34:29.559
of believer in him because he wanted
to do an experiment by leaving a secret
478
00:34:29.599 --> 00:34:32.599
code with his wife Beatrice before he
died, and he told her that if
479
00:34:34.159 --> 00:34:37.639
anyone should give you this phrase,
that you'll know it's me and that I've
480
00:34:37.719 --> 00:34:45.599
made it, I still exist.
And anyhow, after that, after his
481
00:34:45.719 --> 00:34:51.440
death, the mediam Arthur Ford actually
did deliver that phrase to her. But
482
00:34:51.480 --> 00:34:54.079
then skeptics came out of the woodwork, claiming that they must have been in
483
00:34:54.119 --> 00:35:00.280
cahoots together and they just wanted the
publicity or some said it was a and
484
00:35:00.320 --> 00:35:02.239
knowledge what the phrase was. So
all this stuff kind of blew it up.
485
00:35:02.760 --> 00:35:06.760
And if you were to google this
today, it would say that it's
486
00:35:06.760 --> 00:35:09.440
never been solved. But in fact
it was solved. But the you know,
487
00:35:09.519 --> 00:35:15.039
the the the debunker types got a
hold of it and basically convinced people
488
00:35:15.039 --> 00:35:19.840
that it never was solved. So
I asked myself, well, what was
489
00:35:19.880 --> 00:35:22.599
wrong with his methodology? Why was
it why was he you know, why
490
00:35:22.639 --> 00:35:25.119
did they come after him, and
why didn't it hold up strong, and
491
00:35:25.159 --> 00:35:30.000
I thought to myself, really,
because any living person knew what the phrase
492
00:35:30.280 --> 00:35:32.639
was, so they could allege that
they had, you know, the person
493
00:35:32.679 --> 00:35:37.199
that had spilled the beans. So
I thought to myself, well, a
494
00:35:37.199 --> 00:35:39.320
better way to do this is to
have my sister write a phrase or a
495
00:35:39.320 --> 00:35:44.199
message of some sort and then put
it into a sealed envelope where no one
496
00:35:44.239 --> 00:35:47.320
knows what it is except for her. And that's what we did. And
497
00:35:47.360 --> 00:35:52.320
then I consulted a doctor, Don
Watson. He's since passed two, but
498
00:35:52.400 --> 00:35:57.760
he was a neuroscientist who was very
interested in these type of phenomena and he
499
00:35:57.760 --> 00:36:01.400
helped me devise kind of an experimental
not to try and pull this off.
500
00:36:01.840 --> 00:36:06.119
And we reached out to a number
of mediums, told them about that and
501
00:36:06.639 --> 00:36:09.440
asked who would like to participate,
and then we started getting responses and we
502
00:36:09.559 --> 00:36:13.760
put those together and categorized them,
and then, you know, further down,
503
00:36:13.800 --> 00:36:16.079
we eventually opened the envelope. He
had asked me to send him the
504
00:36:16.159 --> 00:36:21.199
envelope so that I would never be
implicated as having peaked at it or anything
505
00:36:21.199 --> 00:36:24.000
like that. So he got the
envelope immediately it was it was unsealed.
506
00:36:24.960 --> 00:36:30.159
My sister wrote on the outside,
she initialed it and when we opened it,
507
00:36:30.199 --> 00:36:32.440
then we compared all the responses to
it. So it was a It
508
00:36:32.519 --> 00:36:37.119
was an interesting process, and I
think it could also give people ideas for
509
00:36:37.199 --> 00:36:43.000
other forms of types of experiments that
could be done along these lines. And
510
00:36:43.039 --> 00:36:45.559
there's a learning I think whenever you
do something like this for how it could
511
00:36:45.599 --> 00:36:52.079
even be further enhanced. What explains
the debunker mentality? Why did the bunkers
512
00:36:52.119 --> 00:36:55.320
want a debunk? In my view, it's it's because of their worldview.
513
00:36:57.440 --> 00:37:04.159
They're married to a physicalist, realistic
paradigm that's been perpetuated in academia for a
514
00:37:04.199 --> 00:37:07.239
long long time. It really goes
back to I think the split between religion
515
00:37:07.280 --> 00:37:12.880
and science back at a time when
science was being scientists were being persecuted by
516
00:37:12.880 --> 00:37:15.800
the church, so that caused that
split, and then there's never been a
517
00:37:15.840 --> 00:37:22.760
reconciliation. And unfortunately a lot of
those folks equate religion and spiritual spirituality with
518
00:37:22.920 --> 00:37:30.320
religion is one and the same,
and they're not necessarily the same. And
519
00:37:30.400 --> 00:37:32.599
I think it's also comes out of
a sense of arrogance, kind of like,
520
00:37:32.679 --> 00:37:37.559
oh, I'm in we're intellectually superior
because we don't believe in all this
521
00:37:37.639 --> 00:37:42.239
wu woo stuff, and it's a
shame because really we should be doing more
522
00:37:42.280 --> 00:37:46.679
research into this this field. And
there are some organizations in the universites that
523
00:37:46.800 --> 00:37:50.760
do, which I applaud them,
but I think we need a lot more.
524
00:37:50.840 --> 00:37:53.000
I mean, there's all kinds of
research being done and things and spending
525
00:37:53.039 --> 00:37:57.679
our tax dollars on that aren't really
that important to people. I don't know
526
00:37:57.719 --> 00:38:00.760
of any subject matter that's really any
more important than you know, Who are
527
00:38:00.800 --> 00:38:04.400
we? Why are we here?
Where do we go after we die?
528
00:38:04.920 --> 00:38:08.840
Right? We talk about the survival
of consciousness and personality, and then we
529
00:38:08.880 --> 00:38:15.159
also talk about reincarnation. Is there
a point where that communication with the consciousness
530
00:38:15.199 --> 00:38:17.400
and personality that is, the soul, the spirit, whatever you'd like to
531
00:38:17.440 --> 00:38:22.440
call it, goes on and can
no longer be contacted. Yeah, this
532
00:38:22.559 --> 00:38:27.119
is speculative on my part because I
can't say that I know the answer.
533
00:38:27.159 --> 00:38:29.800
I think I kind of answered this
in one of two ways, or two
534
00:38:29.880 --> 00:38:35.440
possibilities. One. I've heard a
theory that implies that part of us,
535
00:38:35.760 --> 00:38:38.880
maybe our over soul or the main
part of us, is never It's always
536
00:38:38.920 --> 00:38:44.119
on the other side, it never
comes here. We're like a subset of
537
00:38:44.159 --> 00:38:50.400
that soul here for physical experiences in
a physical world, and we're like,
538
00:38:51.039 --> 00:38:55.719
there's a feedback loop there that goes
to our real soul, our eternal soul,
539
00:38:57.079 --> 00:39:01.400
and that's always there. It's it's
it's fully gone if you will,
540
00:39:01.480 --> 00:39:06.199
or coming over here back and forth. The other thing is that, you
541
00:39:06.239 --> 00:39:09.800
know, I think the duration of
time on the other side in between incarnations
542
00:39:10.960 --> 00:39:16.280
may vary widely, and perhaps maybe
you're not coming back right away. On
543
00:39:16.440 --> 00:39:20.639
my dad, it felt like there
were cases, many cases where people might
544
00:39:20.679 --> 00:39:22.719
be on the other side for what
would be we would consider on this side
545
00:39:22.719 --> 00:39:28.039
one hundred years or thereabouts. I
know other folks feel like reincarnation can happen
546
00:39:28.119 --> 00:39:32.840
very rapidly, So I don't really
know the answer to that, but I've
547
00:39:32.880 --> 00:39:37.679
not seen cases. I've seen very
few cases where someone couldn't be contacted or
548
00:39:38.239 --> 00:39:45.000
couldn't communicate through a really top medium. So I'm kind of mixed on which
549
00:39:45.079 --> 00:39:47.960
view I take. Maybe the former, I might lean to it a little
550
00:39:49.000 --> 00:39:53.320
more than the latter. Absolutely.
My mother passed in January of twenty twenty,
551
00:39:54.039 --> 00:39:58.519
and after she passed, I started
seeing these visions of circles and rings
552
00:39:58.519 --> 00:40:01.239
in my mind's eye, and this
poem came through me. May I share
553
00:40:01.280 --> 00:40:05.440
this with you? Sure, I'd
love to hear it. It's called Circles
554
00:40:05.440 --> 00:40:09.119
and Rings, the path of great
beauty and so many things, from atoms
555
00:40:09.159 --> 00:40:15.360
to galaxies, circles and rings,
natural wisdom that dwells there within from not
556
00:40:15.559 --> 00:40:21.480
to three sixty, that magical spin. We circle each other in Gravity's dance,
557
00:40:22.039 --> 00:40:27.000
as Guy a circle soul, the
solar romance as Luna circles us in
558
00:40:27.079 --> 00:40:31.360
life giving motion, drawing the tides
and inner emotion. And the age of
559
00:40:31.360 --> 00:40:36.840
the oak is found in its rings, as in woman and man and all
560
00:40:36.880 --> 00:40:40.199
living things. And when the rings
stop and life comes to an end,
561
00:40:40.639 --> 00:40:49.280
we'll all circle back and dance once
again. You know what's really interesting about
562
00:40:49.320 --> 00:40:53.159
that? It's wonderful, beautiful.
There's a friend of mine who lives in
563
00:40:53.199 --> 00:40:58.440
New York, Colum Dor, and
he's also an author, and he was
564
00:40:58.800 --> 00:41:04.400
friends with and mentored by another psychic
medium, Clifford Bias, who was friends
565
00:41:04.400 --> 00:41:08.480
with my dad. I think my
dad actually introduced them, but Colin told
566
00:41:08.519 --> 00:41:14.159
me that Clifford had told when Clifford
was near dying, I think he said,
567
00:41:14.800 --> 00:41:21.679
we shall dance again. That's wonderful
that cons that confirms the sense that
568
00:41:21.760 --> 00:41:25.960
I had. That's wonderful. My
guest is Mark Ireland, his book The
569
00:41:27.079 --> 00:41:31.920
Persistence of the Soul Mediums, Spirit
Visitations and Afterlife Communication. We'll be back
570
00:41:31.960 --> 00:41:38.480
with more after these words on the
Old Times Radio Network. Humanity Healing International
571
00:41:38.639 --> 00:41:43.960
is a small nonprofit with a big
dream. Since two thousand and seven,
572
00:41:44.360 --> 00:41:50.039
HHI has been working tirelessly to bring
help to communities with little or no oh.
573
00:41:50.400 --> 00:41:54.320
Our projects are not broad mandates,
nor are they overnight solutions, but
574
00:41:54.440 --> 00:42:00.559
they bring the reassurance then no one
is alone and that someone cares to learn
575
00:42:00.639 --> 00:42:06.400
more. Please visit Humanity Healing dot
org. Humanity Healing is where your heart
576
00:42:06.440 --> 00:42:12.039
is. Back on Destination Unlimited.
My guest this week is Mark Ireland,
577
00:42:12.119 --> 00:42:19.480
his book The Persistence of the Soul
Mediums, Spirit Visitations and After Life Communication.
578
00:42:20.199 --> 00:42:24.039
Mark, why did you start a
medium certification program? Well after my
579
00:42:24.079 --> 00:42:29.840
first book came out, I was
kind of being barraged with people asking for
580
00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:34.800
recommendations for mediums, for good mediums, and what I'm talking about are evidential
581
00:42:34.840 --> 00:42:39.360
mediums, ones that just don't tell
you your grandmother loves you and things like
582
00:42:39.360 --> 00:42:45.599
that, but provides detailed information and
So anyhow, as a result of that,
583
00:42:45.880 --> 00:42:50.559
I knew at that point just maybe
a half dozen people that were really
584
00:42:50.599 --> 00:42:53.519
good, but a lot of them
were celebrities at that point had long wait
585
00:42:53.559 --> 00:42:58.599
lists, some up to two years, and some charged more. You know,
586
00:42:58.599 --> 00:43:01.239
I'm not going to judge people what
they charge. It's great for some
587
00:43:01.280 --> 00:43:05.920
people to not charge anything or charge
very little, and others charge more.
588
00:43:05.960 --> 00:43:09.039
But you know, some of those
folks quit careers too in the business world
589
00:43:09.079 --> 00:43:14.159
just to support themselves so they could
do it full time. But I thought,
590
00:43:14.159 --> 00:43:16.800
well, it would be nice to
make it accessible to more people.
591
00:43:17.559 --> 00:43:21.480
So I thought, you know,
there must be other folks out there with
592
00:43:21.519 --> 00:43:25.679
these abilities that are refined that just
aren't well known and don't charge a lot
593
00:43:25.679 --> 00:43:31.639
and don't have long wait lists.
So I put together a plan to develop
594
00:43:31.679 --> 00:43:38.239
protocols and have a program to test
mediums and have them earned certification. And
595
00:43:38.360 --> 00:43:46.119
to that end, I participated in
a mediumship research project or experiment with a
596
00:43:46.239 --> 00:43:52.199
doctor Emily Williams Kelly at the University
of Virginia Division of Perceptual Studies. That's
597
00:43:52.239 --> 00:43:57.840
the same department that was founded by
doctor Ian Stevenson, who is a reincarnation
598
00:43:58.000 --> 00:44:04.280
researcher and Grayson works there as well. Primarily has been focused on your death
599
00:44:04.320 --> 00:44:09.039
experience phenomena. Jim Tucker now have
picked up the picked up where Ian Stevenson
600
00:44:09.159 --> 00:44:15.119
left off on the reincarnation research.
But anyhow, through the process of working
601
00:44:15.119 --> 00:44:21.039
on this experiment, a mediumship experiment
with doctor Kelly, I learned what her
602
00:44:21.039 --> 00:44:23.719
protocols were, so I kind of
use those as a guideline. And then
603
00:44:24.039 --> 00:44:28.840
another friend of mine, Tricia Robertson, who had been the president of the
604
00:44:28.880 --> 00:44:32.920
Scottish Society of Psychical Research, helped
me kind of refine those and so what
605
00:44:32.960 --> 00:44:38.840
I ended up putting together was a
process of where any applicant has to conduct
606
00:44:38.920 --> 00:44:45.599
five blinded readings via zoom with no
video on for someone they don't know.
607
00:44:45.480 --> 00:44:52.559
The sitter the recipient of the reading
would provide their first name only at the
608
00:44:52.559 --> 00:44:57.480
beginning and again no video. They
can't turn video on later but not in
609
00:44:57.519 --> 00:45:01.679
the beginning. And then the the
medium has to give the reading for about
610
00:45:01.679 --> 00:45:06.119
the first ten minutes, they just
give whatever impressions come, and then if
611
00:45:06.119 --> 00:45:09.360
the sitter wants they can ask for
a connection with a specific first name only.
612
00:45:10.800 --> 00:45:15.960
So this is all recorded, and
then at the end the sitter is
613
00:45:15.079 --> 00:45:20.360
charged with transcribing it and then grading
it. And the way that works is
614
00:45:20.519 --> 00:45:24.079
the sitter will have to take see
if there's a paragraph worth of information,
615
00:45:24.159 --> 00:45:29.320
they need to break that into individual
statements that can be validated as correct,
616
00:45:30.199 --> 00:45:36.960
incorrect, or indeterminable. And if
something's correct and it's highly significant to the
617
00:45:36.960 --> 00:45:39.960
sitter, they can award bonus points. And there's two levels of that.
618
00:45:40.000 --> 00:45:44.559
There's a two point bonus and a
five point bonus. So, for example,
619
00:45:44.639 --> 00:45:47.840
let's say the medium says that the
sitter, I believe I have your
620
00:45:47.880 --> 00:45:52.840
son here. His name starts with
an A, and I think his favorite
621
00:45:52.840 --> 00:45:58.480
food is pizza. The sitter might
say, okay, well, those three
622
00:45:58.519 --> 00:46:01.679
things are correct. My son passed. His name was Aaron, so that's
623
00:46:01.679 --> 00:46:06.440
an A and ame that's good,
and pizza was his favorite food. So
624
00:46:06.519 --> 00:46:08.119
maybe they'd say, okay, that's
pretty good. I'm going to give a
625
00:46:08.159 --> 00:46:13.000
bonus point for the pizza and for
the A name. But if the medium
626
00:46:13.039 --> 00:46:15.920
says, I believe I have your
son here, his name is Aaron and
627
00:46:15.960 --> 00:46:22.239
he liked pizza with anchovies, black
olives, and green peppers, that's highly
628
00:46:22.280 --> 00:46:25.360
specific, and then the sitter would
probably not only call those correct, but
629
00:46:25.679 --> 00:46:30.800
give five point bonuses for those two
statements, So that kind of gives you
630
00:46:30.800 --> 00:46:31.679
a feel for how it works.
But at the end of the day,
631
00:46:31.880 --> 00:46:38.119
once the once the five are conducted, it's the overall result that the passing
632
00:46:38.199 --> 00:46:43.159
requirements are to have a score of
seventy five or better as a minimum,
633
00:46:43.480 --> 00:46:46.639
and what that consists of is the
percent accuracy is part of the number.
634
00:46:46.679 --> 00:46:52.239
So in other words, sixty five
percent is the minimum that one can.
635
00:46:52.920 --> 00:46:57.480
They have to be at least sixty
five percent accurate to pass, and then
636
00:46:57.480 --> 00:47:00.960
with enough bonus points they could hit
seventy five. So for example, let's
637
00:47:00.960 --> 00:47:05.400
say somebody was sixty five percent accurate
and they had two five point bonuses and
638
00:47:05.440 --> 00:47:07.519
they got seventy five points, they
would pass just barely, but that would
639
00:47:07.559 --> 00:47:12.960
be a passing grade. Or someone
seventy five or seventy six percent accurate with
640
00:47:13.079 --> 00:47:17.559
no bonuses they could pass as well. Now the indeterminable statements get pushed to
641
00:47:17.599 --> 00:47:22.039
the side. Those would be things
like predictions of things that haven't passed yet,
642
00:47:22.599 --> 00:47:25.480
or maybe a piece of information that
citer can't determine. Maybe it was
643
00:47:25.559 --> 00:47:30.760
pertaining to someone that their loved one
knew in Europe, or whatever, and
644
00:47:30.800 --> 00:47:34.639
they have no contact information for the
person, so they can't validate the statement.
645
00:47:35.199 --> 00:47:39.159
But I limit the indeterminables to thirty
three percent of all statements. If
646
00:47:39.159 --> 00:47:43.079
somebody exceeds that, then to me, it's really not a good reading.
647
00:47:43.480 --> 00:47:46.920
So anyone, any of those over
thirty three percent get cast into the incorrect
648
00:47:47.000 --> 00:47:52.719
bucket. And today this is you
know, I started this in twenty fourteen,
649
00:47:52.840 --> 00:47:55.480
so nine and a half years later, I've got about forty people who
650
00:47:55.480 --> 00:47:59.599
have been certified, and some really
good ones. I mean some have scored
651
00:47:59.800 --> 00:48:02.639
in the ninety five to ninety eight
percent range, or not percent, but
652
00:48:02.840 --> 00:48:07.880
ninety five to ninety eight point range, and some with accuracies, you know,
653
00:48:07.000 --> 00:48:13.519
in the high eighties to low nineties
too. So and then I've done
654
00:48:13.519 --> 00:48:15.639
this all on my own. It's
I don't make any money from it.
655
00:48:15.679 --> 00:48:20.719
I don't collect the dime. It's
just linking. It's a public service thing,
656
00:48:20.840 --> 00:48:24.599
linking resources to people who need them
so that folks can go to a
657
00:48:24.639 --> 00:48:29.079
credible source. There's no guarantee that
they're going to get a good reading,
658
00:48:29.119 --> 00:48:32.320
but the odds are greatly improved,
and they're going to somebody who's trustworthy.
659
00:48:32.760 --> 00:48:37.320
And most of these mediums too.
If they if a consider gets a substandard
660
00:48:37.400 --> 00:48:42.719
reading, they'll they'll get a refund
if they ask for it. So that's
661
00:48:42.880 --> 00:48:49.119
that's really why it's there. Please
tell us about the Helping Parents Heal HPH
662
00:48:49.400 --> 00:48:53.800
organization and how it was founded.
Sure, so the way it came together
663
00:48:55.280 --> 00:49:00.840
was back in in two thousand and
nine, two thousand and ten, I
664
00:49:00.960 --> 00:49:06.639
was promoting my first book and I
was doing some workshops and this particular workshop,
665
00:49:07.400 --> 00:49:09.800
we had a break and a woman
approached me during the break and she
666
00:49:09.840 --> 00:49:15.159
said, Hey, I'm Susanne Wilson. I just moved from Florida to Arizona
667
00:49:15.199 --> 00:49:20.760
and I came here to meet like
minded people. And in the course of
668
00:49:20.840 --> 00:49:22.199
what she was describing to me,
she goes, you know, interestingly,
669
00:49:22.639 --> 00:49:27.440
I met another mother whose son had
passed on a mountain. It was in
670
00:49:27.440 --> 00:49:30.679
the Himalayas that he was on a
school trip and they had apparently taken the
671
00:49:30.719 --> 00:49:36.599
bus up the mountain two rapidly and
he ended up dying of altitude sickness.
672
00:49:37.360 --> 00:49:42.119
But she told me about this other
mother, and apparently the way she came
673
00:49:42.159 --> 00:49:45.360
to meet her was rather interesting because
she was trying to rent office space so
674
00:49:45.440 --> 00:49:51.239
she could have clients come in there. And then the landlord didn't really know
675
00:49:51.280 --> 00:49:53.840
what a medium was or whether it
was believable, so she put her through
676
00:49:53.880 --> 00:50:00.480
a test, and the test was
one where the landlord showed a car like
677
00:50:00.519 --> 00:50:05.519
a greeting card, a holiday or
Christmas card to Suzanne and said, tell
678
00:50:05.559 --> 00:50:08.599
me something about the people on this
and the card really featured three young people,
679
00:50:09.000 --> 00:50:15.840
two girls and a boy or young
adults on there. Well, it
680
00:50:15.920 --> 00:50:19.199
was the young man who had passed. She didn't know that, but she
681
00:50:19.320 --> 00:50:23.679
said, well, this young man, I feel his presence. And then
682
00:50:23.679 --> 00:50:28.400
she shared a number of validations that
were pretty interesting, one of which was
683
00:50:28.559 --> 00:50:34.320
she saw him with a blowhorn.
Another a big teddy bear. Well,
684
00:50:34.320 --> 00:50:37.599
it turned out that the son,
Morgan, had been a cheerleader for the
685
00:50:38.679 --> 00:50:45.119
University of Arizona football team, and
he used a blowhorn and the cheerleaders called
686
00:50:45.199 --> 00:50:47.440
him big Bear because of his big
bear hugs. So the big teddy bear,
687
00:50:47.559 --> 00:50:52.719
you know, made sense. There
there were probably half a dozen or
688
00:50:52.760 --> 00:50:57.039
more validations like that. Those are
the ones I remember. Anyhow, So
689
00:50:57.199 --> 00:51:00.719
I told Suzanne, I said,
you know what, here's a copy of
690
00:51:00.760 --> 00:51:04.159
my book. Why don't you give
this to the mother who had the son
691
00:51:04.239 --> 00:51:07.400
pass and here's my contact information.
So it was no more than a day
692
00:51:07.480 --> 00:51:12.079
or two later I got a call
from Elizabeth Boyson, who's now a president
693
00:51:12.159 --> 00:51:15.760
of Helping Parents Heal, and she
said, I read your book in one
694
00:51:15.840 --> 00:51:20.559
sitting. I want to meet you
and your wife. And so we did
695
00:51:20.639 --> 00:51:23.239
meet really soon and thereafter and she
says, well, I started a group
696
00:51:23.360 --> 00:51:29.559
called Parents United in Loss on Facebook, but I'm going to have my first
697
00:51:29.559 --> 00:51:32.199
ever in person meeting. Would you
like to be my first speaker? And
698
00:51:32.239 --> 00:51:36.920
I said, okay, sure.
So a while later we went to this
699
00:51:37.000 --> 00:51:39.320
meeting. I think she drew maybe
thirty or forty people something like that.
700
00:51:39.679 --> 00:51:43.599
It went really well and I could
see that was very therapeutic for people.
701
00:51:45.039 --> 00:51:49.440
And then she started doing these meetings
every month. Fast forward to late twenty
702
00:51:49.440 --> 00:51:52.199
eleven. I was leaving a corporate
job and talking to my friend Tina Powers,
703
00:51:52.199 --> 00:51:55.719
who I had mentioned earlier in the
interview. And Tina said to me,
704
00:51:55.880 --> 00:52:00.280
Mark, I think your real purpose
in life is to help other parents
705
00:52:00.320 --> 00:52:02.320
who have been through the same thing
you have, have you, why don't
706
00:52:02.320 --> 00:52:06.960
you think about if you could start
some sort of organization to do that.
707
00:52:07.400 --> 00:52:09.159
I said, okay. So I
was mulling it over, and I thought,
708
00:52:09.280 --> 00:52:12.840
you know what, why reinvent the
wheel. You know what Elizabeth put
709
00:52:12.880 --> 00:52:16.719
together works. The only limitation is
that it's just one location and she doesn't
710
00:52:16.719 --> 00:52:22.039
have a website, she doesn't have
a newsletter. So I thought to approach
711
00:52:22.039 --> 00:52:23.840
her. I called her and said, hey, Tina, gave me this
712
00:52:23.880 --> 00:52:28.280
feedback and I think she's onto something
here. Would you like to partner with
713
00:52:28.360 --> 00:52:30.920
me and kind of blow this thing
out and make it something bigger where we
714
00:52:30.960 --> 00:52:37.519
could blueprint what your process is and
take it out to other locations, other
715
00:52:37.599 --> 00:52:43.400
cities and have more of these types
of meetings. And also I'll help put
716
00:52:43.440 --> 00:52:46.239
a website together and we'll start a
newsletter. And she said that'd be great.
717
00:52:46.440 --> 00:52:50.159
And I said, and maybe we
could use a new name, like
718
00:52:50.199 --> 00:52:52.639
Helping Parents Heal. She says,
I love that name. I didn't like
719
00:52:52.719 --> 00:52:58.679
my name Parents United and Loss.
It sounded too depressing. And the reason
720
00:52:58.760 --> 00:53:04.079
why we really started this was because
there have been and still are other parents
721
00:53:04.119 --> 00:53:08.480
support groups for grieving parents, but
they don't allow the discussion of afterlife evidence
722
00:53:08.559 --> 00:53:14.800
or spiritual experiences. So that was
our differentiator. And now fast forward to
723
00:53:15.000 --> 00:53:19.960
twenty twenty three, we have one
hundred and seventy six affiliate chapters around the
724
00:53:20.000 --> 00:53:24.440
world. We have twenty six thousand
members, and we will have our third
725
00:53:24.840 --> 00:53:30.960
conference in twenty twenty four in August
that will draw a thousand people. We
726
00:53:30.199 --> 00:53:35.559
had one last year that drew nine
hundred sold out the hotel, and interestingly,
727
00:53:37.119 --> 00:53:40.079
the hotel staff were really concerned about
having a group of Berief parents there.
728
00:53:40.119 --> 00:53:43.960
They were afraid that it was going
to be a real downer and depressing.
729
00:53:44.519 --> 00:53:45.440
And at the end of it,
they said, you were the best
730
00:53:45.440 --> 00:53:50.599
group we've ever had, and it
was so uplifting. I had half a
731
00:53:50.639 --> 00:53:52.519
dozen people approach me and say thank
you so much. No I don know
732
00:53:52.559 --> 00:53:57.199
if they're talking about my books or
about the organization, but they said you
733
00:53:57.320 --> 00:54:01.239
saved my life. And that kept
happening again and again and again. I
734
00:54:01.320 --> 00:54:04.880
just saw people that were in a
really dark place when they got there,
735
00:54:05.440 --> 00:54:08.840
that were really uplifted and quite frankly, there's a lot more participation of this
736
00:54:08.960 --> 00:54:14.679
of women than men. But since
we had this conference, the women brought
737
00:54:14.760 --> 00:54:16.559
their husbands, so a lot of
the husbands were exposed to things that they
738
00:54:16.559 --> 00:54:21.199
hadn't considered before, and they got
some healing out of it too. And
739
00:54:21.280 --> 00:54:24.920
we really have some top notch presenters
there too. We had Mark Anthony,
740
00:54:25.280 --> 00:54:30.079
Suzanne Geeseman. This next one we're
still going to have those two, plus
741
00:54:30.880 --> 00:54:38.079
we're going to have Gordon Smith back, Suzanne Wilson, doctor Mary Neil and
742
00:54:38.519 --> 00:54:43.519
a lot of other people, really
really good lineup. So that's what started
743
00:54:43.559 --> 00:54:47.679
with this little nugget to this massive
organization today that's really providing a lot of
744
00:54:47.719 --> 00:54:52.199
healing for folks around the world.
The wonderful work of Mark Ireland, his
745
00:54:52.320 --> 00:54:59.199
latest book, The Persistence of the
Sole Mediums, Spirit Visitations and Afterlife Communication.
746
00:54:59.559 --> 00:55:01.559
Mark more time, please tell our
listeners where they can get your books
747
00:55:01.559 --> 00:55:05.679
and find out more about this wonderful
work. Yeah, if you just go
748
00:55:05.760 --> 00:55:08.719
to my website, it's Mark Ireland
author dot com, mark with a ka
749
00:55:09.159 --> 00:55:15.360
Ireland like the country author, Mark
Ireland author dot com. Not only will
750
00:55:15.400 --> 00:55:17.159
you find my books there, I
have a media tab and you could see
751
00:55:17.199 --> 00:55:22.840
other interviews. You could see the
clip of the Discovery Channel show when I
752
00:55:22.880 --> 00:55:28.480
was at the University of Arizona participating
in a research study. There you could
753
00:55:28.519 --> 00:55:32.039
see a short documentary that was done
on my story. There is a link
754
00:55:32.079 --> 00:55:37.079
on my page to the Helping Parents
Heal website. There's also a link to
755
00:55:37.360 --> 00:55:40.559
see the video of my dad on
the Steve Allen Show back in nineteen seventy
756
00:55:40.559 --> 00:55:45.920
one and some other clips of him
as well, and then there's also a
757
00:55:45.960 --> 00:55:50.079
link to the Certified Medium site,
so everything is there that you might want
758
00:55:50.079 --> 00:55:53.199
that we've talked about today, Mark
Ireland author dot com. Mark, thank
759
00:55:53.239 --> 00:55:58.519
you so much for joining us and
sharing this very special message. Sure thing
760
00:55:58.599 --> 00:56:02.119
that there's been my pleasure and thank
you for joining us on Destination Unlimited.
761
00:56:02.400 --> 00:56:25.880
I'm Victor the Voice Firman. Have
a wonderful week.