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It's the Desolate Dating Podcast, hosted by Haley Shipp, the hottest girl I ever fumbled.
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So glad to have you with us today, as this episode is the one that could save you$200,000.
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Folks, I'm not even exaggerating.
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This is the episode that could save you or a loved one that money.
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We are talking about romance scams today with Commissioner James Brown.
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He is Montana State Auditor.
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He is the Commissioner of Securities and Insurance.
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This is all in his purview, and he's gonna give us the lessons that they have learned through their office.
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Three things before I bring James on that I think are really important to bring this idea of romance scams into the desolate dating purview.
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Number one, uh, it's not uncommon if you are dating online that you don't know this person, they are a long distance away, and you might not actually get to meet them in person for quite some time.
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Number two, what do we do in rural spaces, small towns?
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We help people.
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These romance scammers are going to show that they have a need, they need some help, and I think that we're just predisposed to jump up and say, How can I fix this?
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How can I help you?
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And that is exactly what they're looking for.
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And then number three, and this one I really want to hammer home.
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James told me that it is very often folks that are of retirement age that have perceived disposable income that become the targets for this sort of a scam.
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So if you yourself are meeting people online and you are of a certain age, just know that Albre puts more of a target on your back.
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And if you are listening and that sounds like a parent or a loved one, make sure that you send this episode to them as well, because we don't want to see this happen to anyone.
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So with no further ado, we're gonna go ahead and welcome in Commissioner James Brown.
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James, so glad to have you with us today.
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What a privilege it is to be on desolate dating.
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This is like the highest I've ever achieved professionally.
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This is peak, pinnacle of your entire government career.
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So, James, as we were putting this together.
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Of course, I have done radio now for 20 years, and I just felt as I was contacting your staff like I really needed to add my credentials in there so that they knew it wasn't just some gal on a podcast drinking whiskey who wanted to talk to you.
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So they were very easy to work with.
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Thank you to your staff for that.
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You bet.
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Well, I mean, obviously we've known each other for years.
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So when they said that you were the one reaching out, of course, I had felt confidence enough to know that you weren't a scammer.
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Right.
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And that I could come on your show and we could do some good things and inform some people about the kinds of scams that we see at our office.
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Well, James, I I'm sure you're not gonna be doing a shot of whiskey with me.
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I think there's our certain boundaries on your job, but you've got some water ready to go.
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Right out of the Missouri.
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Yes.
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So our toast today to get started with this is here is to avoiding romance scams.
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And that is what we're gonna build for the listener today.
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Give them that toolbox so that they can make sure that this isn't something they fall prey to.
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So cheers to that.
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Cheers.
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Fireball down the hatch.
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It's time to talk about our presenting partners here on Desolate Dating.
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And for season one, those include the Glasgow Dental Clinic as well as the Moss Lodge by Arnis and Contracting.
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Who wants to enter into dating with bad teeth?
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Not me.
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If you are in that same boat, whether you need some actual in-depth dental work done or maybe just a cleaning, Dr.
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Jo Lynn Ryling at the Glasgow Dental Clinic can hook you up.
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I've got her information as far as how to get a hold of her in the show notes.
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And then the Moss Lodge.
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This is a top 10% Airbnb located right in Glasgow, Montana.
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I could go on and on about what this listing has to offer, but I'm just gonna talk today about the hot tub.
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Cold weather is starting to sink in, and it would be the perfect time to sink in to that warm water.
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It's on the back deck, just outside of the master bedroom.
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One step out, drop on in, enjoy the stars, enjoy the brisk air, maybe a hot toddy.
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You'll find it all at the Moss Lodge.
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That listing is also in the show notes.
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As we hopped onto this phone call today, Auditor Brown told me I'll be your Nigerian prince because I think that that's kind of, you know, we all have these thoughts of what it used to look like with somebody getting scammed.
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So I guess paint us that picture of what a romance scam actually looks like.
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You bet.
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So the core definition, we could say what a romance scam is not.
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It's not about a bad date or a deceptive partner, right?
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It's a highly calculated form of social engineering where the fraudster is a criminal and that fraudster adopts a fake identity, for example, a Nigerian Prince, which is why I made that joke off the trump.
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And and the scam is designed to build intense trust and leverage emotion and then systematically extract money from the victim over time.
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Usually it it starts uh with some kind of outreach on an app like Tinder or through WhatsApp or through an unsolicited email.
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Or LinkedIn is sometimes used, or even online games for for younger victims, or even that random text message that we get.
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Like I just got one I'd say within the last week saying, Are we still on for dinner?
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And I had to think about that one for a minute.
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Um another way to put this is they're confidence scams because they rely on building trust over time.
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And then uh what they try to do, of course, is to take in the victim by building uh uh a relationship with the victim, which is designed with the romance scam to uh create a romantic or a love interest.
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Do you have any stories to just really point out to people how bad this can be, how detrimental this can be to somebody's personal wealth?
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So yes, uh we had a victim from Montana that unfortunately was the victim of a romance scam.
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So this was June of 2025.
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Our agency received a report from an investment advisor explaining that a 77-year-old client was defrauded out of approximately 200,000 by a romance scammer.
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In this instance, the scammer pretended to be a U.S.
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military service member stationed overseas named Palumbo Johnson.
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I'm not making that up.
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Johnson solicited the victim to pay delivery and storage fees for a box of valuables he claimed contained his life savings, which included a Medal of Honor and other valuables.
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Then Johnson told the victim that she was the designated beneficiary and will ultimately receive the contents of the box, which was very valuable.
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Uh so then one of the entities the victim sent money to then demanded additional escalating payments in order to receive the valuable box.
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Unfortunately, uh due to the trust that was built over time uh between the fraudster and the victim here, our office investigated the case, found clear wrongdoing here.
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Uh we ordered a fine against the perpetrator, uh and we'll work through that a little bit.
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So a lot of the perpetrators of these romance scams are going to be persons that are overseas, and so um, we never or rarely ever find these people, right?
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Uh because it's an international scam, and our jurisdiction essentially ends at the borders of Montana.
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We tried to work with the federal government uh to try to bring these perpetrators to justice, but even they have difficulty uh locating them.
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So the most that we can really do as an agency when you have a case like this where the perpetrator was overseas is we can issue an order basically finding wrongdoing from the perpetrator whose name is obviously a fake name, and then do a fine amount, and then if we ever do track these people down, we can criminally prosecute them.
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Montana is only one of seven states that actually has a restitution fund to help victims of investment scams recoup some of their money.
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Very forward-thinking program on the part of the legislature.
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And so we're able to get Montana victims up to$50,000 in restitution, which helps lessen the blow of the loss.
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But the average scam loss that we see in Montana is about$173,000, if you can believe it.
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And so even though we do have a little bit of a payment to help out, it's not gonna make that person whole.
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Kristen Strom, keynote speaker and coach, and Jay Whittle Construction, LLC.
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Folks, if your business would like to be part of this list of sponsors, what I am calling our open enrollment.
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I may have stole that phrase from somewhere.
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It's open through October 31st.
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My email is in the show notes so that you can contact me for details.
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Also in the show notes, the contact information, probably more importantly, for these businesses that have stepped up right away.
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Again, Ushiny Fabrics, Cherry Creek Aesthetics, Busted Knuckle Brewery, End of the Road Vacation Rental, Dr.
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Kristen Strom, and Jay Whittle Construction.
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Now back to the show.
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When we go into the, especially the online dating worlds of it, so it might be on a match.com, a Facebook dating, a Tinder, these people are they're probably putting up a profile that looks as though it's real and interacting with you as though that they are romantically interested.
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And then it starts to take on a different tone.
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What are some things that people should notice in that atmosphere, some red flags that might come up?
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Yeah, that's a that's a really good point.
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And and let me answer that at a higher level before I go into the specific points.
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So what we're finding out through our investigations as we get more and more of the reports coming into our office about these romance scams, which is growing, by the way, as the use of artificial intelligence is increasing, and of course, the ease with which uh technology makes it possible to contact somebody else, particularly across state borders or across international lines, right?
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We're finding out that most modern romance scams are not a single individual behind a computer, right?
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Uh these scams are actually highly organized by international syndicates operating like corporate call centers.
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It's really incredible.
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Uh as part of our presentations that we give to the Montana public about the not being a victim, is that we actually show one of these centers in Myanmar.
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I I mean it literally looks like an industrial office you would see somewhere in the you know suburbs of LA.
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I I mean it's quite an operation.
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Um and as you stated, uh one of the red flags, of course, that you're gonna see is that the person that you're communicating with is gonna be quite an an attractive individual.
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The things that we tell folks to uh watch out about are um the invisible partner, if you will.
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Someone always has an excuse for why they can't meet in person or hop on a video call.
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With AI, however, that's even changing a little bit, right?
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Because they can mimic a person.
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So what you're trying to do is to make sure that the image is consistent with the photo or short video, if you will.
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The second thing is that um the the number one tell, and this is something that we've discussed with the FBI here in Montana, the number one tell for a scam is they're trying to create a sense of urgency when they do want you to act, so when they're actually making the play for you to send them the money, because ultimately that's the goal of these scams, right, is to establish the conf confidence so that you'll feel confident enough to send them uh big money.
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Uh and when that gets to that point, if they're pressuring uh their victim to act quickly, right, without being able to think about it, or without having an intermediary be involved, that's a huge scam.
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And then the thing that we're really seeing, which is a huge red flag, is the form of request of payment is becoming now unusual.
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Uh it used to be that they would ask that you know you go to your bank and wire them money.
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Now what they're trying to do is to have the victim send them gift cards because they're untraceable essentially, right?
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And then the second thing is to uh them cryptocurrency.
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This is a huge red flag.
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Because again, if you go down to your financial institution and say you're want to send, you know,$80,000 to someone in Nigeria, the bank officer is gonna be pretty suspicious.
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But if they can get you to create uh crypto account and just send money that way, there's nobody to stop it.
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And so those would be big red flags.
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But the the important one in the romance uh scam is they're gonna try to isolate their victim, particularly from their family, you know, say don't talk to your family uh about this.
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Uh and then the other thing, as I stated, is is you'll never they'll never want to meet in person.
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So how do they do the ask typically?
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Is it like I need this money to come and visit you?
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I need this money because I am um you know, going to get kicked out of my apartment or my somebody in my family's sick.
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Like, what is the m the most common thing that you get reported that people are tugging at heartstrings in order to get that money for?
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Yeah, you nailed it.
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It's uh they create the fraudster creates a scenario where they have a sick family member or a sick child that is in need uh of immediate medical care or some kind of help, uh, which plays on human nature to for us to try to help people, right?
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I mean, it's a perfect setup.
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Uh so what they try to do once they've established the trust and confidence, then what they do is say, Well, can you send me money to help out with my sick family member?
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The other thing that we see is what you pointed out is that they'll ask for money to travel uh to see the person in person uh for the first time.
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And so they need a little travel money to get their visa.
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Because a lot of these scams, as we talked about, originate from overseas actors, particularly Southeast Asia.
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Used to be coming out of Russia around 2000, uh, but that's changed a little bit as Russia's gotten back to being a little more modern.
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Now it's Southeast Asia.
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So they're gonna they're gonna make an ask, right?
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And sometimes sometimes the form of the ask will come in terms of investment.
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They have an investment uh that they think is a really hot investment and want you to send them money to do the investment for you.
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But the main form is gonna be they have a sick family member or their child needs help somehow.
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Aaron Powell And we've already established that just sort of the trusting nature of a lot of folks in rural spaces like what we have here makes us especially sitting ducks for this sort of a scam.
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And then I'm also thinking you know, one of the things is that they're I forget how you phrased it exactly, but you know, they're you're not able to actually have physical contact with them.
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You know, they're not able to come and see you.
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They might not be able to hop on a video chat.
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But again, being in Montana, we're used to if you're online dating that somebody is three, four hours away.
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And so physically you might not have that introduction with somebody until you've established quite a bit of a relationship where you might trust this person enough to help them out financially.
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So what do people what should they do if they suspect a scam?
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First of all, the number one reason that Montanans have who have been scammed tell us that they didn't report the scam or that they had lost money was because of the fear of embarrassment and uh and they felt stupid.
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Uh the reality is these scammers literally have made scamming their business.
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To get to the thrust of your question, um the first thing we encourage people to do is to actually just report the scam.
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Uh we are at the State Auditor's Office the repository uh for reporting financial type scams in Montana.
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But the the thing that we also tell folks is if you think you're being scammed, just like we heard as a kid, you know, if they're if you're on fire, stop, drop and roll, right?
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Same concept.
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If you think you're getting scammed, stop what you're doing, drop communication with the fraudster, and report that incident to my office or to another law enforcement agency.
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All right, James.
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Um anything else on this romance scam front that we didn't bring up that you think is pertinent for folks to know.
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Yeah, I want to go back to the the shame embarrassment piece that we talked about.
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I just want to reiterate uh for those that are listening.
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First of all, good luck on your desolate dating.
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I hope it's uh successful and you find your partner.
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I think you're providing a good service uh for those living in rural Montana.
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It is difficult to meet people in the state.
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But you know, don't be a victim when you're trying to establish our relationships.
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But if you are, don't feel embarrassment or ashamed about getting scammed.
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We talked about it, fraudsters are master manipulators, they're experienced professionals with fine-tuned scripts and numerous victims they've already learned from that they've scammed.
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Our job as the State Auditor's Office is to connect Montana victims with resources that they can use to recover uh from being a fraud or to uh connect them with counseling or that sort of thing so that they can mentally recover.
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Sadly, fraudsters share info about their victims with other fraudsters.
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So once someone has been scammed, they're honestly this is horrible, but they're gonna be targeted again to be another victim a second time.
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So if you have been one of the victims of fraud scams, it is important to be extra vigilant afterwards to make sure that you're not a victim again.
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But the most important thing is to get educated through resources like that contained on our website so you know how to spot the various forms of scams so that you're not a victim in the first instance.
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That's the best win-win for everybody.
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Thank you to Auditor Brown for joining me for this conversation.
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You know, as he and I got talking about those establishments in Myanmar and the like, you know, I said, This is just crazy.
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How are these places still allowed to be in operation if we have video from them?
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He said that oftentimes it's governments that are behind some of this.
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So if you're looking at this and thinking, wow, I've gotten scammed in the past and you feel silly about it, don't.
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I mean, these are very sophisticated operations.
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Auditor Brown's office is prepared to do presentations on this.
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If you are in the state of Montana, I've got links to there as well as the resources he suggested in the show notes, including links as well to some national resources.
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So you know, we uh it's already challenging enough to find somebody out there.
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But we don't need to add getting financially cleaned out to the list.
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So stay vigilant and stay safe.
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Thanks for listening to Desolate Dating.
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Thanks for listening.
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If you enjoyed the show, give us a like, follow, and a five star review and tell a friend.
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It's the Desolate Dating Podcast, hosted by Haley Shipp, the hottest girl I ever fumbled.
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So glad to have you with us today, as this episode is the one that could save you$200,000.
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Folks, I'm not even exaggerating.
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This is the episode that could save you or a loved one that money.
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We are talking about romance scams today with Commissioner James Brown.
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He is Montana State Auditor.
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He is the Commissioner of Securities and Insurance.
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This is all in his purview, and he's gonna give us the lessons that they have learned through their office.
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Three things before I bring James on that I think are really important to bring this idea of romance scams into the desolate dating purview.
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Number one, uh, it's not uncommon if you are dating online that you don't know this person, they are a long distance away, and you might not actually get to meet them in person for quite some time.
00:00:59.759 --> 00:01:03.840
Number two, what do we do in rural spaces, small towns?
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We help people.
00:01:05.519 --> 00:01:14.879
These romance scammers are going to show that they have a need, they need some help, and I think that we're just predisposed to jump up and say, How can I fix this?
00:01:15.040 --> 00:01:15.920
How can I help you?
00:01:16.079 --> 00:01:18.159
And that is exactly what they're looking for.
00:01:18.319 --> 00:01:22.159
And then number three, and this one I really want to hammer home.
00:01:22.400 --> 00:01:32.000
James told me that it is very often folks that are of retirement age that have perceived disposable income that become the targets for this sort of a scam.
00:01:32.239 --> 00:01:39.920
So if you yourself are meeting people online and you are of a certain age, just know that Albre puts more of a target on your back.
00:01:40.079 --> 00:01:49.200
And if you are listening and that sounds like a parent or a loved one, make sure that you send this episode to them as well, because we don't want to see this happen to anyone.
00:01:49.439 --> 00:01:53.200
So with no further ado, we're gonna go ahead and welcome in Commissioner James Brown.
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James, so glad to have you with us today.
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What a privilege it is to be on desolate dating.
00:01:58.719 --> 00:02:02.319
This is like the highest I've ever achieved professionally.
00:02:02.640 --> 00:02:07.280
This is peak, pinnacle of your entire government career.
00:02:07.599 --> 00:02:10.159
So, James, as we were putting this together.
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Of course, I have done radio now for 20 years, and I just felt as I was contacting your staff like I really needed to add my credentials in there so that they knew it wasn't just some gal on a podcast drinking whiskey who wanted to talk to you.
00:02:23.680 --> 00:02:25.439
So they were very easy to work with.
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Thank you to your staff for that.
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You bet.
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Well, I mean, obviously we've known each other for years.
00:02:30.479 --> 00:02:36.639
So when they said that you were the one reaching out, of course, I had felt confidence enough to know that you weren't a scammer.
00:02:37.039 --> 00:02:37.199
Right.
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And that I could come on your show and we could do some good things and inform some people about the kinds of scams that we see at our office.
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Well, James, I I'm sure you're not gonna be doing a shot of whiskey with me.
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I think there's our certain boundaries on your job, but you've got some water ready to go.
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Right out of the Missouri.
00:02:59.280 --> 00:02:59.759
Yes.
00:02:59.919 --> 00:03:06.639
So our toast today to get started with this is here is to avoiding romance scams.
00:03:06.719 --> 00:03:08.719
And that is what we're gonna build for the listener today.
00:03:08.879 --> 00:03:13.599
Give them that toolbox so that they can make sure that this isn't something they fall prey to.
00:03:13.680 --> 00:03:14.879
So cheers to that.
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Cheers.
00:03:16.400 --> 00:03:17.840
Fireball down the hatch.
00:03:17.919 --> 00:03:21.439
It's time to talk about our presenting partners here on Desolate Dating.
00:03:21.520 --> 00:03:28.080
And for season one, those include the Glasgow Dental Clinic as well as the Moss Lodge by Arnis and Contracting.
00:03:28.319 --> 00:03:31.439
Who wants to enter into dating with bad teeth?
00:03:31.680 --> 00:03:32.400
Not me.
00:03:32.560 --> 00:03:39.439
If you are in that same boat, whether you need some actual in-depth dental work done or maybe just a cleaning, Dr.
00:03:39.599 --> 00:03:43.199
Jo Lynn Ryling at the Glasgow Dental Clinic can hook you up.
00:03:43.360 --> 00:03:48.000
I've got her information as far as how to get a hold of her in the show notes.
00:03:48.240 --> 00:03:49.919
And then the Moss Lodge.
00:03:50.000 --> 00:03:54.319
This is a top 10% Airbnb located right in Glasgow, Montana.
00:03:54.479 --> 00:04:00.159
I could go on and on about what this listing has to offer, but I'm just gonna talk today about the hot tub.
00:04:00.319 --> 00:04:06.879
Cold weather is starting to sink in, and it would be the perfect time to sink in to that warm water.
00:04:06.960 --> 00:04:09.759
It's on the back deck, just outside of the master bedroom.
00:04:09.919 --> 00:04:15.520
One step out, drop on in, enjoy the stars, enjoy the brisk air, maybe a hot toddy.
00:04:15.759 --> 00:04:17.600
You'll find it all at the Moss Lodge.
00:04:17.680 --> 00:04:19.759
That listing is also in the show notes.
00:04:20.000 --> 00:04:32.079
As we hopped onto this phone call today, Auditor Brown told me I'll be your Nigerian prince because I think that that's kind of, you know, we all have these thoughts of what it used to look like with somebody getting scammed.
00:04:32.240 --> 00:04:38.240
So I guess paint us that picture of what a romance scam actually looks like.
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You bet.
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So the core definition, we could say what a romance scam is not.
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It's not about a bad date or a deceptive partner, right?
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It's a highly calculated form of social engineering where the fraudster is a criminal and that fraudster adopts a fake identity, for example, a Nigerian Prince, which is why I made that joke off the trump.
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And and the scam is designed to build intense trust and leverage emotion and then systematically extract money from the victim over time.
00:05:11.360 --> 00:05:22.639
Usually it it starts uh with some kind of outreach on an app like Tinder or through WhatsApp or through an unsolicited email.
00:05:24.560 --> 00:05:32.959
Or LinkedIn is sometimes used, or even online games for for younger victims, or even that random text message that we get.
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Like I just got one I'd say within the last week saying, Are we still on for dinner?
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And I had to think about that one for a minute.
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Um another way to put this is they're confidence scams because they rely on building trust over time.
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And then uh what they try to do, of course, is to take in the victim by building uh uh a relationship with the victim, which is designed with the romance scam to uh create a romantic or a love interest.
00:06:01.040 --> 00:06:10.160
Do you have any stories to just really point out to people how bad this can be, how detrimental this can be to somebody's personal wealth?
00:06:10.720 --> 00:06:16.959
So yes, uh we had a victim from Montana that unfortunately was the victim of a romance scam.
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So this was June of 2025.
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Our agency received a report from an investment advisor explaining that a 77-year-old client was defrauded out of approximately 200,000 by a romance scammer.
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In this instance, the scammer pretended to be a U.S.
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military service member stationed overseas named Palumbo Johnson.
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I'm not making that up.
00:06:41.199 --> 00:06:51.839
Johnson solicited the victim to pay delivery and storage fees for a box of valuables he claimed contained his life savings, which included a Medal of Honor and other valuables.
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Then Johnson told the victim that she was the designated beneficiary and will ultimately receive the contents of the box, which was very valuable.
00:07:02.480 --> 00:07:12.560
Uh so then one of the entities the victim sent money to then demanded additional escalating payments in order to receive the valuable box.
00:07:12.720 --> 00:07:23.759
Unfortunately, uh due to the trust that was built over time uh between the fraudster and the victim here, our office investigated the case, found clear wrongdoing here.
00:07:23.839 --> 00:07:30.319
Uh we ordered a fine against the perpetrator, uh and we'll work through that a little bit.
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So a lot of the perpetrators of these romance scams are going to be persons that are overseas, and so um, we never or rarely ever find these people, right?
00:07:40.560 --> 00:07:46.959
Uh because it's an international scam, and our jurisdiction essentially ends at the borders of Montana.
00:07:47.040 --> 00:07:55.120
We tried to work with the federal government uh to try to bring these perpetrators to justice, but even they have difficulty uh locating them.
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So the most that we can really do as an agency when you have a case like this where the perpetrator was overseas is we can issue an order basically finding wrongdoing from the perpetrator whose name is obviously a fake name, and then do a fine amount, and then if we ever do track these people down, we can criminally prosecute them.
00:08:16.560 --> 00:08:26.160
Montana is only one of seven states that actually has a restitution fund to help victims of investment scams recoup some of their money.
00:08:26.399 --> 00:08:29.600
Very forward-thinking program on the part of the legislature.
00:08:29.680 --> 00:08:38.879
And so we're able to get Montana victims up to$50,000 in restitution, which helps lessen the blow of the loss.
00:08:39.039 --> 00:08:46.000
But the average scam loss that we see in Montana is about$173,000, if you can believe it.
00:08:46.159 --> 00:08:52.799
And so even though we do have a little bit of a payment to help out, it's not gonna make that person whole.
00:09:08.879 --> 00:09:14.240
Kristen Strom, keynote speaker and coach, and Jay Whittle Construction, LLC.
00:09:14.639 --> 00:09:20.960
Folks, if your business would like to be part of this list of sponsors, what I am calling our open enrollment.
00:09:21.120 --> 00:09:23.279
I may have stole that phrase from somewhere.
00:09:23.519 --> 00:09:25.840
It's open through October 31st.
00:09:26.000 --> 00:09:29.440
My email is in the show notes so that you can contact me for details.
00:09:29.600 --> 00:09:36.080
Also in the show notes, the contact information, probably more importantly, for these businesses that have stepped up right away.
00:09:36.159 --> 00:09:42.080
Again, Ushiny Fabrics, Cherry Creek Aesthetics, Busted Knuckle Brewery, End of the Road Vacation Rental, Dr.
00:09:42.159 --> 00:09:44.799
Kristen Strom, and Jay Whittle Construction.
00:09:44.960 --> 00:09:45.919
Now back to the show.
00:09:46.080 --> 00:10:02.720
When we go into the, especially the online dating worlds of it, so it might be on a match.com, a Facebook dating, a Tinder, these people are they're probably putting up a profile that looks as though it's real and interacting with you as though that they are romantically interested.
00:10:02.879 --> 00:10:06.080
And then it starts to take on a different tone.
00:10:06.320 --> 00:10:12.399
What are some things that people should notice in that atmosphere, some red flags that might come up?
00:10:13.200 --> 00:10:15.200
Yeah, that's a that's a really good point.
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And and let me answer that at a higher level before I go into the specific points.
00:10:20.639 --> 00:10:45.200
So what we're finding out through our investigations as we get more and more of the reports coming into our office about these romance scams, which is growing, by the way, as the use of artificial intelligence is increasing, and of course, the ease with which uh technology makes it possible to contact somebody else, particularly across state borders or across international lines, right?
00:10:45.360 --> 00:10:51.679
We're finding out that most modern romance scams are not a single individual behind a computer, right?
00:10:52.320 --> 00:10:59.360
Uh these scams are actually highly organized by international syndicates operating like corporate call centers.
00:10:59.440 --> 00:11:00.639
It's really incredible.
00:11:00.879 --> 00:11:09.679
Uh as part of our presentations that we give to the Montana public about the not being a victim, is that we actually show one of these centers in Myanmar.
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I I mean it literally looks like an industrial office you would see somewhere in the you know suburbs of LA.
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I I mean it's quite an operation.
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Um and as you stated, uh one of the red flags, of course, that you're gonna see is that the person that you're communicating with is gonna be quite an an attractive individual.
00:11:31.120 --> 00:11:38.720
The things that we tell folks to uh watch out about are um the invisible partner, if you will.
00:11:39.039 --> 00:11:45.120
Someone always has an excuse for why they can't meet in person or hop on a video call.
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With AI, however, that's even changing a little bit, right?
00:11:49.919 --> 00:11:51.840
Because they can mimic a person.
00:11:52.080 --> 00:11:58.399
So what you're trying to do is to make sure that the image is consistent with the photo or short video, if you will.
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The second thing is that um the the number one tell, and this is something that we've discussed with the FBI here in Montana, the number one tell for a scam is they're trying to create a sense of urgency when they do want you to act, so when they're actually making the play for you to send them the money, because ultimately that's the goal of these scams, right, is to establish the conf confidence so that you'll feel confident enough to send them uh big money.
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Uh and when that gets to that point, if they're pressuring uh their victim to act quickly, right, without being able to think about it, or without having an intermediary be involved, that's a huge scam.
00:12:44.159 --> 00:12:53.039
And then the thing that we're really seeing, which is a huge red flag, is the form of request of payment is becoming now unusual.
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Uh it used to be that they would ask that you know you go to your bank and wire them money.
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Now what they're trying to do is to have the victim send them gift cards because they're untraceable essentially, right?
00:13:05.919 --> 00:13:09.200
And then the second thing is to uh them cryptocurrency.
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This is a huge red flag.
00:13:11.440 --> 00:13:24.879
Because again, if you go down to your financial institution and say you're want to send, you know,$80,000 to someone in Nigeria, the bank officer is gonna be pretty suspicious.
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But if they can get you to create uh crypto account and just send money that way, there's nobody to stop it.
00:13:31.759 --> 00:13:34.080
And so those would be big red flags.
00:13:34.159 --> 00:13:46.879
But the the important one in the romance uh scam is they're gonna try to isolate their victim, particularly from their family, you know, say don't talk to your family uh about this.
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Uh and then the other thing, as I stated, is is you'll never they'll never want to meet in person.
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So how do they do the ask typically?
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Is it like I need this money to come and visit you?
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I need this money because I am um you know, going to get kicked out of my apartment or my somebody in my family's sick.
00:14:04.559 --> 00:14:11.840
Like, what is the m the most common thing that you get reported that people are tugging at heartstrings in order to get that money for?
00:14:12.320 --> 00:14:13.360
Yeah, you nailed it.
00:14:13.600 --> 00:14:32.240
It's uh they create the fraudster creates a scenario where they have a sick family member or a sick child that is in need uh of immediate medical care or some kind of help, uh, which plays on human nature to for us to try to help people, right?
00:14:32.320 --> 00:14:33.840
I mean, it's a perfect setup.
00:14:34.080 --> 00:14:43.120
Uh so what they try to do once they've established the trust and confidence, then what they do is say, Well, can you send me money to help out with my sick family member?
00:14:43.279 --> 00:14:52.879
The other thing that we see is what you pointed out is that they'll ask for money to travel uh to see the person in person uh for the first time.
00:14:52.960 --> 00:14:56.559
And so they need a little travel money to get their visa.
00:14:56.879 --> 00:15:03.039
Because a lot of these scams, as we talked about, originate from overseas actors, particularly Southeast Asia.
00:15:03.360 --> 00:15:12.159
Used to be coming out of Russia around 2000, uh, but that's changed a little bit as Russia's gotten back to being a little more modern.
00:15:12.320 --> 00:15:13.600
Now it's Southeast Asia.
00:15:13.919 --> 00:15:16.480
So they're gonna they're gonna make an ask, right?
00:15:16.879 --> 00:15:21.840
And sometimes sometimes the form of the ask will come in terms of investment.
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They have an investment uh that they think is a really hot investment and want you to send them money to do the investment for you.
00:15:29.360 --> 00:15:35.200
But the main form is gonna be they have a sick family member or their child needs help somehow.
00:15:35.279 --> 00:15:46.399
Aaron Powell And we've already established that just sort of the trusting nature of a lot of folks in rural spaces like what we have here makes us especially sitting ducks for this sort of a scam.
00:15:46.639 --> 00:15:57.759
And then I'm also thinking you know, one of the things is that they're I forget how you phrased it exactly, but you know, they're you're not able to actually have physical contact with them.
00:15:57.840 --> 00:15:59.600
You know, they're not able to come and see you.
00:15:59.759 --> 00:16:01.759
They might not be able to hop on a video chat.
00:16:01.840 --> 00:16:07.440
But again, being in Montana, we're used to if you're online dating that somebody is three, four hours away.
00:16:07.600 --> 00:16:18.480
And so physically you might not have that introduction with somebody until you've established quite a bit of a relationship where you might trust this person enough to help them out financially.
00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:22.320
So what do people what should they do if they suspect a scam?
00:16:22.639 --> 00:16:37.600
First of all, the number one reason that Montanans have who have been scammed tell us that they didn't report the scam or that they had lost money was because of the fear of embarrassment and uh and they felt stupid.
00:16:37.840 --> 00:16:42.320
Uh the reality is these scammers literally have made scamming their business.
00:16:42.639 --> 00:16:49.440
To get to the thrust of your question, um the first thing we encourage people to do is to actually just report the scam.
00:16:49.679 --> 00:16:58.320
Uh we are at the State Auditor's Office the repository uh for reporting financial type scams in Montana.
00:16:58.559 --> 00:17:09.599
But the the thing that we also tell folks is if you think you're being scammed, just like we heard as a kid, you know, if they're if you're on fire, stop, drop and roll, right?
00:17:09.839 --> 00:17:10.960
Same concept.
00:17:11.200 --> 00:17:21.680
If you think you're getting scammed, stop what you're doing, drop communication with the fraudster, and report that incident to my office or to another law enforcement agency.
00:17:22.240 --> 00:17:23.119
All right, James.
00:17:23.200 --> 00:17:31.440
Um anything else on this romance scam front that we didn't bring up that you think is pertinent for folks to know.
00:17:32.960 --> 00:17:38.079
Yeah, I want to go back to the the shame embarrassment piece that we talked about.
00:17:39.200 --> 00:17:42.240
I just want to reiterate uh for those that are listening.
00:17:42.640 --> 00:17:45.519
First of all, good luck on your desolate dating.
00:17:45.759 --> 00:17:48.400
I hope it's uh successful and you find your partner.
00:17:48.640 --> 00:17:53.119
I think you're providing a good service uh for those living in rural Montana.
00:17:53.359 --> 00:17:55.920
It is difficult to meet people in the state.
00:17:56.319 --> 00:18:01.519
But you know, don't be a victim when you're trying to establish our relationships.
00:18:02.160 --> 00:18:07.039
But if you are, don't feel embarrassment or ashamed about getting scammed.
00:18:07.519 --> 00:18:17.039
We talked about it, fraudsters are master manipulators, they're experienced professionals with fine-tuned scripts and numerous victims they've already learned from that they've scammed.
00:18:17.279 --> 00:18:35.200
Our job as the State Auditor's Office is to connect Montana victims with resources that they can use to recover uh from being a fraud or to uh connect them with counseling or that sort of thing so that they can mentally recover.
00:18:35.680 --> 00:18:40.880
Sadly, fraudsters share info about their victims with other fraudsters.
00:18:41.119 --> 00:18:49.279
So once someone has been scammed, they're honestly this is horrible, but they're gonna be targeted again to be another victim a second time.
00:18:49.519 --> 00:18:57.599
So if you have been one of the victims of fraud scams, it is important to be extra vigilant afterwards to make sure that you're not a victim again.
00:18:57.680 --> 00:19:10.799
But the most important thing is to get educated through resources like that contained on our website so you know how to spot the various forms of scams so that you're not a victim in the first instance.
00:19:10.960 --> 00:19:12.720
That's the best win-win for everybody.
00:19:13.039 --> 00:19:15.920
Thank you to Auditor Brown for joining me for this conversation.
00:19:16.079 --> 00:19:23.279
You know, as he and I got talking about those establishments in Myanmar and the like, you know, I said, This is just crazy.
00:19:23.440 --> 00:19:27.519
How are these places still allowed to be in operation if we have video from them?
00:19:27.759 --> 00:19:31.519
He said that oftentimes it's governments that are behind some of this.
00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:38.799
So if you're looking at this and thinking, wow, I've gotten scammed in the past and you feel silly about it, don't.
00:19:38.960 --> 00:19:41.519
I mean, these are very sophisticated operations.
00:19:41.759 --> 00:19:44.960
Auditor Brown's office is prepared to do presentations on this.
00:19:45.039 --> 00:19:53.920
If you are in the state of Montana, I've got links to there as well as the resources he suggested in the show notes, including links as well to some national resources.
00:19:54.160 --> 00:19:59.519
So you know, we uh it's already challenging enough to find somebody out there.
00:19:59.680 --> 00:20:03.759
But we don't need to add getting financially cleaned out to the list.
00:20:03.920 --> 00:20:06.000
So stay vigilant and stay safe.
00:20:06.160 --> 00:20:08.160
Thanks for listening to Desolate Dating.
00:20:08.880 --> 00:20:09.920
Thanks for listening.
00:20:10.079 --> 00:20:15.279
If you enjoyed the show, give us a like, follow, and a five star review and tell a friend.
