20 ~ Desire and Creativity: Artistic Expression, Ritual and Motherhood with Elana Bell

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Welcome to Desire as Medicine.
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We are two very different women living a life led by Desire inviting you into our world.
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I'm Brenda.
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I'm a devoted practitioner to being my fully expressed true self in my daily life.
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Motherhood, relationships and my business Desire has taken me on quite a ride and every day I practice listening to and following the voice within.
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I'm a middle school teacher turned coach and guide of the feminine, and I'm Catherine, devoted to living my life as the truest and hopefully the highest version of me.
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I don't have children.
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I've never been married.
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I've spent equal parts of my life in corporate, as in some down and low shady spaces.
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I was the epitome of tired and wired and my path led me to explore Desire.
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I'm a coach, guide, energy worker and a forever student.
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Even after decades of inner work, we are humble beginners on the mat, still exploring, always curious.
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We believe that listening to and following the nudge of Desire is a deep spiritual practice that helps us grow.
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On the Desire as Medicine podcast.
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We talk to each other, we interview people we know and love about the practice of Desire, bringing in a very important piece that is often overlooked being responsible for our desire.
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Welcome listeners and friends.
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This is Brenda.
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I am joined with my amazing co-host, Catherine Navarro.
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Hi and we have hello.
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So good to be here with you today, as always, and we are joined by a very special guest today and a very dear friend, ilana Bell.
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Ilana, it's so great to have you here today.
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Thank you, I'm so excited and happy to be here.
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We are very happy and honored and our guests are in for a real treat today.
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But before we dive into anything, I just want to talk about Ilana Bell, because she is a beautiful, open-hearted woman, a dear friend of mine.
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You are a mother, a wife, an entrepreneur.
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You're on a spiritual journey.
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You have a beautiful, open heart.
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You are a poet, a sound practitioner, a creative guide.
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You facilitate incredible artistic rituals for people to help them access their authentic voice and alchemize their deep, raw emotions into artistic expression.
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It's absolutely beautiful.
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Ilana is a poet.
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She often writes about the intersection of poetry and social change, as well as motherhood and being a daughter as well.
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She has received grants and fellowships.
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Her writing has been published in multiple publications.
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She is the author of two beautiful books of poetry Eyes Stones and the more recent Mother Country.
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I am not done.
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She is a woman of many talents.
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I really want to put all these things in the room because you do so many beautiful things in the world.
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Ilana teaches at the Juilliard School.
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She teaches poetry to actors.
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She also sings with the Resistance Revival Chorus.
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You also lead one-on-one group sound journeys with your creative partner and alone.
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You do this on retreats as well.
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A very warm welcome to you, Ilana.
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It's truly a pleasure to have you here today.
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Thank you so much.
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Thank you for just seeing me and saying those things.
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It's a lot to actually hear it and receive it.
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It feels sensational, it's so good.
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I'm so glad it's.
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One of the things that we like to do on the Desire is Medicine podcast is edify people and really talk about them instead of having you read your own bio, which we can very easily do.
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But it really is beautiful to receive the gift of somebody sharing who you are and truly we're so happy to have you here today.
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Thank you.
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Well, I'm really excited to have Ilana here today.
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Thank you so much for being willing to join Brenda and I.
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I will also let our listeners know that it's been really beautiful to see Brenda, so excited to have Ilana on.
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I know that they have a really beautiful friendship and they meet a few times a week and they work together as well, so I'm really excited to know more about their friendship, to know about your know, more about your friendship, as well as the work that you do together, as well as the work that Ilana does.
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As far as I know, if I were to have had, if I had to edify Ilana today, I would say, oh, she's a writer and a poet, because that's what I know more of the most of, so much so that I'm like, oh, it would be so cool if she just did reels on TikTok or Instagram with music in the background and she just wrote her poetry.
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But on the Desire is Medicine podcast, I can be all kinds of creative, but in reality, we want to know, like, how does Desire meet your work and how do you work specifically with Desire?
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And I know that you strongly identify with as being a creative and, more importantly, a mother.
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Because you spoke about motherhood.
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What would you say has been one of the more challenging things for you on your path as being a creative artist and a mom?
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Wow, I feel like you had.
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There were so many questions in there and I actually want to speak to what you said first, like about the intersection of Desire and my work, and then I'm happy to bring in the motherhood piece as well.
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In fact, I wrote a whole book of poems about it.
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So I really think that and I know you you speak a lot about Desire as a seed, as a spark.
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You know that, that you follow, and that isn't necessarily about getting the thing that you thought you wanted.
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It's really about the journey that the Desire takes you on and I really feel like that, both about my work as a creative, like my work as a writer and as a sound artist, and also my work as a teacher and educator and a creativity guide or coach.
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So it really is that same thing.
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It's about following that seed, or that spark, and letting it lead you.
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To give an example, my first book of poems, I Stones was really me, you know, deep, and this was written in 2012.
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So quite some time ago, but is relevant now.
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But just being a Jewish woman, but being deeply concerned with, you know, the reality of Palestinians in in Israel and the occupied territories, and so, like I was following that desire to understand, to, to like no more to, to find a way to hold these multiple narratives, and that's what led I didn't go in thinking like, oh, I want to write a book about this.
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It was like I was actually following a genuine question or obsession, or desire.
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I think that they're related, I think that those things are connected and so it was like really following that, that spark and I think, with my clients and and the people who come into my, my group offerings as well, it's about they might come with an idea of something they think that they're going to do, like, oh, I'm going to write this book, or oh, I'm going to, you know, paint this thing.
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And it's not that that can't happen or doesn't happen, but often they find themselves like, because they're being present with the seed, the spark and and what is authentically coming through them in that moment, going in another direction and and creating something that is different than what they had planned or expected but actually feels more authentic and more true to them, and sometimes that thing is the creation that they then want to like, stand behind, and sometimes they just had to get that out to get to the other thing.
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You know, then the something else wants to.
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It's like they needed to get that first thing out for the next piece to come through, and it can go in either way.
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But but to me that it really is similar to this idea of following the thread of your desire.
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Thank you so much for sharing how you see desire playing out in your work and you slightly touched on like how it plays out with you in your life.
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How do you feel that it plays a role?
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You following the seed or the path with you in your role as mother?
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That is such a complicated and many layered question.
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I mean, I think to start with my desire to have a child.
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It was a huge desire and it took.
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It was not a I didn't conceive very quickly or easily, so that whole journey to even becoming pregnant and becoming a mother, that's like a whole other I could.
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That story is like probably its own podcast episode.
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Like you know, my husband and I did a lot to bring our son into the world and then, like, with many desires, once you have it, it's like holy shit, this is not what I thought it was going to be.
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This is really like I kind of was like what did I get myself into?
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Like I really had a very difficult time, my early months of motherhood and that's a lot in mother country like sort of this fantasy that people shove at you about what having a child is going to be like versus the reality.
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Reality, you know, I kind of joke.
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I'm like I grew.
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I lived in Park Slope for a time and there were a lot of people who were just really like, oh, your birth plan and having your perfect ecstatic birth and I'm not saying that can't happen, but, like you know, all the attention was sort of on on the birth plan and then it's like what about when you have the actual child?
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It's like all the attention being on the wedding and then like the marriage is actually the thing.
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And so my son it was like this deep desire and then the reality of him has been this journey, which was really challenging at first because I was used to I was 38 when I had him almost and I was used to being an artist, being traveling the world, offering workshops and going to retreats and going to residencies for like two months where I would just have nothing to do but like work on my poetry.
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And then it was like here I was in the room with this creature who just needed all of my presence all the time, but from that, like a new relationship with my work was birthed.
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I first and foremost, like I wouldn't have my whole sound, becoming a sound healer, and that part of my practice came in the moments when my son was like you know, I was like anxious, I couldn't, like you know, had a little bit of like I wouldn't say full on postpartum depression, but definitely some depression, and I would sit with my little instrument and hum for 21 minutes a day to like regulate my nervous system.
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It was something that I'd learned from a teacher I'd taken a class with, and then I could be present for my son.
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But I had to take care of myself in that way, and that was truly the seed of my work as a sound practitioner not just a singer and musician, but like really sound as a healing art and one that has become a huge part of my work, as much as my poetry, for sure.
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And then, of course, the Book.
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Mother country was born because of my son, but it was.
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I had to change the way that I worked as a writer, because I was used to going away to these residencies that were like a month, two months, and I would just do nothing, and that's where a lot of my best work came.
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And suddenly I'm like well, I'm not gonna be able to go away for a month, even a week, even a day, like especially in the early.
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You know, the first year of his life.
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I couldn't leave at all, and so I had my phone and I would take these notes.
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I called it the mommy journal and I would write these like images, things that came to me, whatever little snippets and scraps.
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Well, that became those notes are what became the final poem in this book, which is called I forgot the name After Birth and that became the centerpiece of the book.
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Actually, that's what actually led to this book, the existence of this book.
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So, my son birth.
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I birthed my son and my son birthed my book and birthed me as a sound healer or sound practitioner.
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That's really beautiful.
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Thank you so much for sharing your piece around.
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Like I think it's really true, people shove what it's supposed to be Sometimes our communities do their best to support us while but they're supporting us with their filter, what they think that something's gonna look and feel like based on just the title of the desire in this case motherhood, right, and then you experience what it was really like once you had the baby and you're saying, oh wow, I didn't put.
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A lot of people don't really put that much attention on this part of actually being a mom, just sort of how we put a lot of attention on weddings and not necessarily marriage, right, being a mom having the baby versus actually being with child 24, seven another human being that wants us so much.
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I think this is a gorgeous location around desire when we talk about, like, the idea of what we want versus the actual reality that's in place when we have it.
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What comes up for you, brenda?
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I think what you shared is just so absolutely beautiful.
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And I've known you for a long time and I didn't know the piece about playing your instrument for 21 minutes a day to regulate your nervous system when you had your child and how that was the seed that grew into your sound work as a healing modality.
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That's just absolutely beautiful.
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And I've read some of your poems about being a mother, being a new mother.
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Would you read one for us?
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Sure, yeah, absolutely.
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I think that would be really beautiful for the listeners to hear one of these poems.
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That what you're talking about, about the reality versus what we thought it would be.
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Yeah, I'm gonna read this one called prayer, because I think it touches upon the longing for a child and then, held up against the reality and how, those same way, like longing for your desire and then like the friction of the actual reality of having it.
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Prayer when you are crying and I don't know why.
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When I cannot soothe or quiet you, when my nipples are sore and cracked from your merciless mouth, or when you refuse the breast.
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When I finger the purple stretch marks across my thighs and belly, the loose skin the blood vessels burst around my eyes and cheeks and asshole, which are because you are.
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When I stink of puke and milk and shit.
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When I begin to lose my grown-up words from lack of use, when you push the cup of blended yams.
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I've just prepared on the floor for the third time this week and it isn't an accident because you looked right at me before you sent it over the edge of your high chair.
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When I am on my knees before you, little ruler, begging you to eat, to sleep, to piss in the bowl.
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Let me remember those many nights on my knees praying to another God, begging for you to come, for life, to take hold inside of me and bloom.
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Thank you, that's absolutely beautiful, wow.
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Yeah, there's so much truth and humor inside of it and reality, and I love how you are saying the unsaid, like things that people don't generally talk about, like you really bring in things that are not generally talked about.
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I love the part where he just looks at you in the eye and throws it on the floor.
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I mean I think that is without like.
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It wasn't like a thing that I decided I wanted to do, but in both of my books it's like that, following that mandate of unshaming, like right by speaking and naming, to claim and unshame our truths so that we're not so lonely in them.
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That's really absolutely beautiful and so powerful.
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How does it feel your son is seven, now Eight.
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How does it?
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Oh, he's eight.
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Excuse me, that's right, thank you.
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How does it feel to hear these poems and reflect upon the journey as a mother now?
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It's so different.
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It feels like a different world, like I almost like don't even, it's like I don't know how to.
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I wrote a poem about depression and I said depression is a country that you visit and like once when you leave it you can't believe it ever existed.
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And I kind of feel the same way about early motherhood.
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It's like not that it was.
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I mean, there was a lot of beauty and joy in it too, that you know but it was like I can't even imagine.
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Like I look at my son now and I can't imagine that he's the same person even you know he's like this.
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You know he comes to me and he's like cuddles me in the morning and he's like full of contradictions and ideas were.
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Like so much of our relationship is so verbal now and physical, but physical, like he's giving me affection and like you know we're playing off each other.
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I do have a funny story about him, like as a Current way, that he actually is supporting my creative process, which I think is cool because it's so different than like earlier.
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It was like okay, how are the, how are the at the experiences of early motherhood, carving me and bringing out my, my creative expression.
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And now my son and we actually traveled to Puerto Rico for Christmas and we were sitting at a restaurant and my son gets kind of bored, like he likes to have a lot of stimulation, and he like he was like mom, can we write a poem together?
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And I was like Sure, and so we actually would do.
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He would write the title and then I would write a line, and then he would write a line and I Would write a line, and so we created these Little short pieces together and actually it's funny I was writing about this today.
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It actually got me out of like a creative block, like it was like a totally different way of being in the creative process.
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It isn't how I work, like I never would come up with the title first of my poem, but that's how he wanted to work, and so we like exchange and then we had these little, so we had like six or seven of these kind of like mini poems which I I love like no, I'm not gonna send them to my publisher, you know what I mean, but it's like it's like this archive of like this, this or this Moment that I had with my son, to be in a creative collaboration with my son, which is pretty amazing gift.
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Wow, that's beautiful, it's he.
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Do you feel that he's an artist in his own Eight year old little right like, how do you see that in his eight year old His you say he likes to be overly simulated.
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I'm like, wow, you birthed a child that Really loves to be expressed.
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Yeah, he wakes up every morning and he like makes up songs.
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He comes into my bed and he's like Mama, mama, I love my mama.
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Like.
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He just like.
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But it has like a rhythm to it and like a beat and a melody and he'll like Make up these songs.
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He he actually has been.
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He used to dictate poems to us.
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He wasn't writing them, but he would actually say things and then we'd be like what's next?
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And he would just like take our little.
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The same that I did with my poem, I did it with for my son, but Now he's typing it himself in the little notes.
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The notes function of my phone has become a big part of my artistic process.
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Yeah, the thing that's tricky with my son is that if I Impose or put any label on him or anything, if he feels like it's coming from outside of himself, he's gonna reject it.
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So I don't like call him like.
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I don't say like oh, you're an artist, you're a.
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I say oh, you, I have said you're a poet.
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But even with that I'm careful, because he really he kind of and it's with anything, it's not just the art.
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It's like he started swimming.
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I was like oh, do you want swimming lessons.
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He's like, no, I was like, why not?
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Don't you want to learn more?
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He's like I know how to swim and I don't want anyone telling me what to do, and that's kind of like how he is in life, kind of probably like me.
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So he yeah.
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So I'm careful with how I speak about that with him, but I do encourage, like him to be Connected to his art making and like I do give him a lot of like, love and praise when he creates something.
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That's beautiful and it's such a good parenting too.
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It's such a beautiful lesson.
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You're so good at that and I know you do that in your own creative work and you host groups and you facilitate people's artistic Expression, and you're I love hearing about how you do it in your own home on a daily basis.
00:21:15.978 --> 00:21:42.775
And what I want to bring in to the conversation as well is your mother, because you're talking about being a mother and how you're mothering your son and the creative Experience that you're having with him, that you share with him, and I know that your mother was a really big part of your own Creative journey and and you becoming an artist, and I would love to hear about that, if you would like to share.
00:21:43.280 --> 00:21:44.423
Yeah, and she still is.
00:21:44.523 --> 00:21:50.227
You know, my mother passed away but she's still very much a part of my creative journey, my artistic journey.
00:21:50.227 --> 00:21:53.704
To start with, it's so.
00:21:53.704 --> 00:22:10.632
My mother is the child of Holocaust survivors and so she grew up being very careful about what she said and how she expressed herself, because she and they didn't talk about the Holocaust or their experience, but it was a.
00:22:10.632 --> 00:22:23.673
My mother is like a very deeply was, a, very it still is from the other realm, like a deeply sensitive being, and so she felt and she absorbed, I think, a lot of their trauma and so she was very, very.
00:22:23.673 --> 00:22:26.779
You know it was like that don't be seen and not heard.
00:22:26.779 --> 00:22:34.291
You know she was tiptoed around and she was very careful about her expression as a child, I think around her parents.
00:22:34.291 --> 00:22:39.920
I mean she was like expressed with her friends and she was bought I mean I hear stories and she was like bossy and like creative and imaginative.
00:22:39.920 --> 00:22:45.432
But she did have this piece of her that was worried about setting her, you know, upsetting her parents because of what they've been through.
00:22:45.432 --> 00:23:07.900
So from a very early age her Priority with me was that I should feel fully expressed and I should always like express myself, like that was something that was a high value in her parenting towards me and she's spoken about it and and, by the way, that was actually Challenging, like when I was a teenager I spoke in way, you know, I like just said my mind.
00:23:07.900 --> 00:23:12.717
Well, you know, a teenager's mind is like not always the kindest, you know, especially mothers and daughters.
00:23:12.717 --> 00:23:25.691
That's not always the case, but it can be and for my mother and I, like, that age, like around 1516, was very challenging, but she still like Stood by and backed me to be an expressed being.
00:23:25.691 --> 00:23:28.363
So that's like definitely a huge part.
00:23:28.363 --> 00:23:32.752
And then I think the other piece is that my mother also was a poet.
00:23:32.752 --> 00:23:50.960
It wasn't her career in the same way, but she, she has poems of hers that were published in journals that still Get used today, like she's in an anthology called Jewish women speak to God, and she has a poem about the sheina, which is the divine feminine presence, and that is anthologized and read and used.
00:23:50.960 --> 00:23:59.882
It's like a very well-known poem in the Jewish community and like especially among, like, women, rabbis and and Encanters.
00:23:59.882 --> 00:24:01.464
So there's that piece.
00:24:01.464 --> 00:24:10.092
So she modeled that for me, without necessarily knowing she was not like she would go away Once a year for like a weekend retreat by herself to like be with her art.
00:24:11.164 --> 00:24:24.634
And then the other piece is you know, she was a ritualist and she really like, every Friday we did Shabbat and we had, and Shabbat and like those things are, I think, even like spiritual rituals, family rituals.
00:24:24.634 --> 00:24:26.942
They there's creative, they're creative in there.
00:24:26.942 --> 00:24:42.894
You know, it's like the way the table was set, the songs that we sang, the way we spoke to each other, you know the bread, like all of that was a ritual and was had a creative artistic Aspect to it, especially the songs and things that we would do around that.
00:24:42.894 --> 00:25:04.911
And then, like when I was 16, she held a ritual for, like my friends, it was actually when we were going through a tough time and she wanted to reconnect and so she held this like sweet 16 ceremony where each Girl that came my grandfather's prayer who had passed away his prayer shawl Everyone would like give whisper a blessing to me and I would whisper a blessing to them.
00:25:05.500 --> 00:25:09.652
So these things are like not most, I don't think most girls were doing that at 16 in LA.
00:25:09.652 --> 00:25:16.046
You know it was like this was like a very, and so that has also impacted the way.
00:25:16.046 --> 00:25:19.993
I mean, for me my creative practice is a ritual practice.
00:25:19.993 --> 00:25:27.242
You know my own personal creative practice, my sound practice and those are Connected, really one in the same.
00:25:27.242 --> 00:25:46.682
The way that I hold space and offer like sound and also Creative fires, circle or any of the anything anywhere that I facilitate or lead or teach, I bring ritual to the creative process and practice, and that was a huge piece that my mother Gave to me.
00:25:47.224 --> 00:25:54.749
Thank you so much for sharing that I there's so much there and I'd like to circle back a little further.
00:25:54.749 --> 00:26:02.294
You said something that was so cool when you said depression is a country that you can't believe it existed.
00:26:02.294 --> 00:26:08.749
Like depression is a country visited you can't believe it existed, and I think that often there's a I could.
00:26:08.749 --> 00:26:22.079
That word could even be replaced with a version of us, like, for example, the other day I was reading some sort of journal entry from like I Don't know I had to be in my 20s why I was saying how can I have more peace right now?
00:26:22.079 --> 00:26:28.303
I must have been going through an anxious time, but I read that I was like, oh wow, I had anxiety.
00:26:28.303 --> 00:26:41.983
Like I do not have any recollection of that being part of my lived experience, and when we think of desire, I'm sure that at that point I was hoping to be someone that had more peace, because I had that question how can I have more peace right now?
00:26:43.462 --> 00:27:17.013
And I and it sounds like you work with people who, between you and them, you create this, this I want to call it maybe like a passage off the island, and I would love to talk about the island of grief, because I know that that's something that you work on and it's been active in my communities where I see people experience loss and grief, where they sort of get stuck or they're thinking, oh oh, here, the holidays are coming and I'm on this grief island right.
00:27:17.013 --> 00:27:27.401
Or here's the anniversary of someone's passing and here's and here I am again stuck on grief island, or or birthdays, etc.
00:27:27.401 --> 00:27:33.403
I would love for you to talk about, like the kind of work that you would do to help someone get off of grief island.
00:27:35.721 --> 00:27:52.950
Well, I think first it's like I actually think, before you can get off of grief island, you have to like sink into the sands of grief island, like you have to really give yourself space to grieve in, in, and not just in your mind but in your body.
00:27:52.950 --> 00:28:04.557
So a lot of the work I do whether it's, you know, when people come in to work with me, whatever they're carrying my entryway into creative expression is always embodied.
00:28:04.557 --> 00:28:06.403
It's not through the mind, it's through the body.
00:28:06.403 --> 00:28:15.099
And so there's that we do a lot of work around like vocal release and movement and breath and really allowing things to move.
00:28:15.099 --> 00:28:27.165
So the first thing I would say is like let yourself give yourself over to the grief first, but not in like a, like a self-pity, it's like really like let it out fully instead of what we mostly do, which is like keep it about here.
00:28:27.165 --> 00:28:30.375
So maybe you're weepy, but you never get to fully express it.
00:28:30.375 --> 00:28:39.830
You know, and I think that that's a really key piece to moving it, and I know that you know that's relevant from the work that you do and your teachers and all of that.
00:28:39.830 --> 00:28:53.786
And then I think also, like in the case of, I Think, creating ritual around it actually is a beautiful piece, so like, and, and that changes, you know, depending on what the need is.
00:28:53.786 --> 00:29:23.097
But I think you know, creating an altar, you know, like an ancestor altar, having objects, like really allowing yourself to understand that you can, you know, if you believe this stay in connection with the energy of the person you've lost, or at least With your memory of them, you know, if that's not your belief system and and I think so like, for example, there are a lot of rituals that already are in place for people, like funerals and stuff like that.
00:29:23.097 --> 00:29:48.738
But finding your own personal thing that isn't in relationship to other people's form I mean, there's a lot that you can get out of other people's form but I would say like, so I think something beautiful could be like writing a letter to the person that you've lost, and like expressing all the love and maybe the things you never got to say, you know, and then burning it or putting it on like dissolvable paper and bringing it to the water, you know, and letting it dissolve.
00:29:48.738 --> 00:29:55.034
My brother and I actually did that right after my mom's passing.
00:29:55.034 --> 00:30:06.548
He was up here visiting and we went down to the creek by our house and we just wrote these letters to our mom and put them in the water and like, let them dissolve and that was a beautiful ritual.
00:30:06.627 --> 00:30:08.619
That it's not like it gets rid of grief.
00:30:08.619 --> 00:30:12.537
It's not like I don't see it as like something that you're like getting rid of.
00:30:12.537 --> 00:30:19.391
I see it as something that, like, you're learning to dance with and be in relationship with and continue to live your life.
00:30:19.391 --> 00:30:31.239
And I see healing as a spiral versus a line Like I find myself sometimes coming back to the same struggles or pains, but I'm a different, I'm different and so my relationship to it is different.
00:30:31.259 --> 00:30:33.766
I have different tools where I have a different perspective.
00:30:33.766 --> 00:30:37.914
It's not like, you know, you're never going to grieve the person again because you do this ritual.
00:30:37.914 --> 00:30:41.548
It's like you're going to grieve them, but it's going to be different every time.
00:30:41.548 --> 00:30:44.657
And you know I have worked a lot.
00:30:44.657 --> 00:31:04.729
A lot of my creative clients have had grief in their life and we've done ritual with like movement, drumming, sounding, writing, all of those pieces to really so, again, it's like about fully expressing the grief, as opposed to, you know, trying to get rid of it.
00:31:04.729 --> 00:31:15.645
Like by fully expressing it, you shift it, you shift your relationship to it and there's more spaciousness and it's, I think like probably an ongoing necessary process.
00:31:15.645 --> 00:31:16.848
That happens many times.
00:31:18.974 --> 00:31:19.696
Thank you for that.
00:31:19.696 --> 00:31:21.541
I would like to go a little bit.
00:31:21.541 --> 00:31:32.305
I'm going to go back again to something that you said, where because we're on video here for listeners, so we get to see each other, and but you said something that wouldn't necessarily translate.
00:31:32.305 --> 00:31:47.237
You said sometimes we're, instead of just being here or here expressing and Alana was sort of pointing or moving her hands around her collarbone, so I'm assuming like it's more top heavy, you're more like in your mind or thoughts, or weeping.
00:31:47.237 --> 00:31:57.564
How would someone know, Like what's the actual sensation when somebody has really, I guess, sunken themselves their body?
00:31:57.564 --> 00:31:59.446
How do, how does somebody know?
00:31:59.446 --> 00:32:02.182
Oh, wow, I have fully expressed this grief.
00:32:03.567 --> 00:32:07.065
Well, I think it's going to be different for every person, Like everyone's going to feel something differently.
00:32:07.065 --> 00:32:23.305
Like, when I was making that gesture, I was holding my hand kind of horizontal at my, like, neck chest level, and to me it was like that kind of like, you know, when you're crying and you can't, you can't really let out because you have to be at work or you have to be there for show up for your kids or whatever, or you just don't want to, like you're afraid that you'll go into the well of it and never be done.
00:32:23.305 --> 00:32:26.686
So you're, you're actually kind of above it or on the surface of it.
00:32:26.686 --> 00:32:41.667
And my hands I am a person who talks to my hands I'm sort of shaking my hands like they're shimmering on the surface of the water and I think when you let yourself fully go into your grief, like as I'm even talking about it, I'm feeling it lower, I'm feeling it in my pelvis, I'm feeling it in my thighs.
00:32:42.951 --> 00:32:58.141
I would let myself like when my mom was in her dying process, I would go out to my creek, put on music that I knew was going to make me cry and I would just like get on my knees and just like wail and touch the earth and like touch the water.
00:32:58.301 --> 00:33:11.047
Or sometimes I went out with a drum, you know, by the creek, and I sang and I just like sang songs to my mother who was dying, but it was really I'm singing also to myself, like to the part of myself that is grieving, you know it's, that was as much a part of it.
00:33:11.047 --> 00:33:14.628
So, you know, I don't think there's like a formula or recipe.
00:33:14.628 --> 00:33:36.308
It's going to feel different in every person, but I do think, like I feel it as like a deepening or a sigh or in the lower, like from you know, belly down, but I think you can also, it could also be the heart, like opening and and and feeling movement in that area.
00:33:36.308 --> 00:33:47.199
So again, I think it's I'm telling you my experience, but I believe it could feel different in everyone's body, but I think it is something you'll know the difference, I think, from when you're like breathing, keeping it in, to when you're letting it out.
00:33:48.383 --> 00:33:50.069
That was an absolutely gorgeous description.
00:33:50.069 --> 00:33:51.174
Thank you so much for that.
00:33:51.174 --> 00:33:55.107
Yes, I think what you're pointing to is there.
00:33:55.107 --> 00:33:57.798
There will be a sense of something is different for me here.
00:33:57.798 --> 00:34:01.854
Maybe I feel lighter, maybe I feel more, you know, heart open something.
00:34:01.854 --> 00:34:03.319
There's been some kind of movement.
00:34:03.319 --> 00:34:09.800
You were really gorgeously descriptive earlier when you were talking about, like how the energy moves in your body.
00:34:09.800 --> 00:34:12.706
What's coming up for you, brenda?
00:34:12.706 --> 00:34:14.456
I see your wheels turning.
00:34:15.380 --> 00:34:16.463
My wheels are turning.
00:34:16.463 --> 00:34:31.110
It's just so beautiful to listen to you and I was thinking about grief and my own grief and how it feels in my body while you were speaking and for me I could picture myself down the creek with you feeling the grief.
00:34:31.110 --> 00:34:45.472
And when I really let myself feel it, it's like there's an allowing that I'm experiencing like just like letting it take me and expressing it in whatever sound and emotion wants to come through.
00:34:45.472 --> 00:34:49.385
And for me I really do feel it in my heart and it's such an embodied feeling.
00:34:49.385 --> 00:34:51.833
It's almost when we do that.
00:34:51.833 --> 00:34:52.815
It's almost peaceful.
00:34:54.219 --> 00:35:06.798
You know where the resistance that you talked about before is really the painful part, but the feeling of the grief that you were speaking about is absolutely beautiful because that's where love lives.
00:35:06.798 --> 00:35:13.161
There's so much love and the grief is love loss, like there's nowhere for it to go, and that's painful.
00:35:13.161 --> 00:35:16.876
So that's what was coming up for me when you were speaking and it's just.
00:35:16.876 --> 00:35:31.496
It was really beautiful to witness you experience the passing of your mother over time and and being with that, and how you bring that that experience to your clients and your family and friends.
00:35:33.320 --> 00:35:55.023
A lot of people, when they come to either as a one on one client or to the create a fire circle, they come like thinking like, oh, I just don't have time, Like they're blocked in some way from like their full expression, their creative expression, and they think it's like time or commitments or, you know, like something like there's like, oh, I don't have enough time, or oh, and those things aren't not real.
00:35:55.184 --> 00:35:55.949
I mean they are real.
00:35:55.949 --> 00:36:00.585
I mean I've worked with people who are like mothers of three and, like you know, run a school and all kinds of things.
00:36:00.585 --> 00:36:01.286
So that's real.
00:36:01.286 --> 00:36:09.789
But it's often like it's because they're just trying to like sit down at a computer and like do the same thing that they would do at work, and it's like they need to like.
00:36:09.789 --> 00:36:42.056
And so I've had people going through deep grief processes, like from either loss, you know, of loved ones or relationships, and that is becomes a big piece of the, of the expression and of the movement you know to, and then that becomes either what they want to actually end up writing or or creating around, or it like they move it out of the way so that there's, or they move it so that it's make space for whatever else wants to come through, Because I think when you move that grief then there's more space for joy, you know, and whatever else, and for your expression to come through.
00:36:42.677 --> 00:36:44.724
Absolutely, that's really beautiful.
00:36:44.724 --> 00:36:47.132
I've been in your creative fire circle.
00:36:47.132 --> 00:37:12.693
I was a participant and I can absolutely say how transformative it was and therapeutic and beautiful to be in a space that you created with sound and the structure that you provide and the love and the holding and I could not believe what came out of me in my writing.
00:37:12.693 --> 00:37:16.742
It was at a time when I was doing some inner child work.
00:37:16.742 --> 00:37:27.940
It was like very big in my journey at that time last year and some beautiful pieces came out and there was a lot of grief inside of it and a lot of beautiful memories.
00:37:27.940 --> 00:37:44.510
And, like you said, when you stop resisting and you actually just create the space which I highly recommend, create a fire circle for people who want to have more of their artistic expression, the love and the joy and the memories come through and that just feels.
00:37:44.510 --> 00:37:53.740
I think it's what we live for, you know, because it's like an expression of the love and it's a beautiful space that you create.
00:37:53.740 --> 00:37:55.106
Thank, you.
00:37:56.349 --> 00:37:57.052
You're so welcome.
00:37:57.072 --> 00:38:00.259
It's my pleasure and honor and joy to do that work.
00:38:01.681 --> 00:38:05.047
And it was really natural for you to create that I just want to bring in.
00:38:05.047 --> 00:38:12.103
Can you share the story about your mother and create a fire circle, since we did talk about your mother, can you bring that little story in, because it's absolutely beautiful.
00:38:12.706 --> 00:38:20.065
Yeah, so my mother used to publish these little self-made chapbooks, like you know they would.
00:38:20.065 --> 00:38:37.545
And we, when after her death, we were all like after her funeral and stuff, we were sitting around the like my coffee table in my dad's apartment and I and my his friend Don, I was like, oh, did you know that you have your mother's chapbooks?
00:38:37.545 --> 00:38:38.670
And I was like I don't know.
00:38:38.670 --> 00:38:50.257
And she pulled and there was a whole bunch of them and one of them was called create a fire and it was written in I don't actually know the year, I think maybe 2001 or something like that.
00:38:50.318 --> 00:39:00.045
Like, and I had had no idea about that or thought about that when I named my circle, create a fire circle.
00:39:00.179 --> 00:39:15.222
So it was like this wild synchronicity that really just made me feel even more like the thread and then the way that, like the way things want to be born, like it moves through you and it just felt like.
00:39:15.943 --> 00:39:35.670
It felt a little bit like divine, divine awareness that there was that that circle was meant to be birthed and that it is actually part of my way of honoring my mother and my lineage, because her desire was for me to be expressed and my desire is for everybody to be fully creatively expressed.
00:39:35.670 --> 00:39:45.771
Like I really believe I don't believe in the hierarchy of artists so much I really believe that, like everyone is an artist, is a creative being.
00:39:45.771 --> 00:40:12.132
You know, not everybody's going to be at the met, you know I'm not saying that, like I'm just saying, but I do believe that that creative it's not a luxury, it's like a human need to express ourselves creatively and we it's like we've been doing it as long as we've been doing it in anything else, like cave paintings and songs and epic poems, like that's just a part of being human and so that is a really deep part of my sacred calling is to support that in others.
00:40:12.132 --> 00:40:16.409
And I feel, when I'm doing that, that I'm carrying on my mother's legacy as well.
00:40:17.010 --> 00:40:17.391
Thank you.
00:40:17.391 --> 00:40:19.385
It's really beautiful.
00:40:19.385 --> 00:40:21.583
It almost feels when you speak.
00:40:21.583 --> 00:40:23.168
It actually feels like a poem as well.
00:40:23.628 --> 00:40:23.949
Did you know?
00:40:23.989 --> 00:40:25.563
that, no, thank you.
00:40:25.563 --> 00:40:28.163
It just feels it's so.
00:40:28.163 --> 00:40:30.489
It's so wonderful to listen to you.
00:40:31.181 --> 00:40:31.884
Oh, thank you.
00:40:32.842 --> 00:40:33.585
You're so welcome.
00:40:33.585 --> 00:40:35.623
I am curious.
00:40:35.623 --> 00:40:55.867
You talk about full expression a lot and it's absolutely beautiful how your mother, the lineage of your family, and how your mother created a space for you to be fully expressed and how that was something that was very important to her and it was probably difficult for her, you know, when you talked about that teenage part, and yet she created that.
00:40:55.867 --> 00:41:11.726
And now here you are creating that space for your own son and for people, women in your creative fire circle, like it's, like your feels, like your life's work is allowing people, creating spaces for people to be fully expressed.
00:41:11.726 --> 00:41:15.648
And I am curious what you have learned about yourself.
00:41:15.648 --> 00:41:33.606
You know we talk about what we learned about ourself and how desire grows us into the person that we want to be, and I'm really curious what you've learned about yourself on the journey of being fully expressed, the desire to be fully expressed Well it's.
00:41:33.987 --> 00:41:42.347
Sometimes it just feels like it's not even a choice for me, like I, if I don't say the thing or get it out, it's going to like kill me, like like I'm going to die inside.
00:41:42.347 --> 00:41:44.686
That's like one of the things I've learned.
00:41:44.686 --> 00:41:53.791
Actually, one of the things I'm learning is how to to actually like hold sometimes not just get it like, but like actually let it marinate before I speak.
00:41:53.791 --> 00:42:00.909
Like that's a new learning, like a new place that I'm exploring, like letting something fill a little bit before I get it out.
00:42:00.909 --> 00:42:10.344
But in terms of like, yeah, I think I've learned that my creative impulses like I don't choose them, they choose me.
00:42:10.344 --> 00:42:34.050
Like they're my obsessions, like the things both books like came because it was the things that were circling in my life, that was the inquiry that was living inside me, and so I trust I've learned to trust and follow that and not put pressure on myself to like come up with something, but to try, like, as long as I'm tending to my creative practices, I trust that what is meant to come through will come through.
00:42:35.360 --> 00:42:47.541
And then the other piece that I am reminded of is like and when I don't tend to my creative practices, when I don't make that time and give myself that ritual time, I become a cranky bitch, number one and number two.
00:42:47.541 --> 00:42:49.347
It's like then I'm not, you know.
00:42:49.347 --> 00:43:13.945
It's like then it's like a piece is missing and I, and it leads to all kinds of other like you know me, like just me, not being my fullest, healthiest, happiest self and my happiest self, by the way, has a lot of grief and you know, like rage, like my full, happy self is not, like you know, surface, it's like it's the full, full range, but like it's in a healthy way, it's an expressed way.
00:43:13.945 --> 00:43:23.347
And so, you know, really just making the space that it's a I have to make that a priority, and when I don't, I suffer and everybody around me suffers.
00:43:26.400 --> 00:43:28.405
What would you like to tell us about creative fire circle?
00:43:32.365 --> 00:43:35.632
Well, so creative fire circle has been.
00:43:35.632 --> 00:43:41.824
This will be the, I believe, seventh, seventh round of it and it's this deeply intimate.
00:43:41.824 --> 00:43:43.088
I call it a cauldron.
00:43:43.088 --> 00:43:47.789
I said before I'm like it's not a program, it's like a temple.
00:43:47.789 --> 00:43:53.903
It's like it's your creative temple that you are building with whoever else magically shows up.
00:43:53.903 --> 00:43:55.824
And it's an intimate group.
00:43:55.824 --> 00:43:58.929
I keep it intimate so that we can really go deep.
00:43:59.079 --> 00:44:07.226
A big part of the process and experience is the relationships, that of being in community together, like you're not alone on your creative journey.
00:44:07.320 --> 00:44:21.304
You're doing this with a group of people and it's very powerful to have that, that cauldron, that space, that temple, space that you are like, that is held and protected and I love that.
00:44:21.364 --> 00:44:28.751
It really is a space for you to bring your full self, whatever is happening, and we work with that and we and we move and we express from that.
00:44:29.862 --> 00:44:43.811
And it's just been an incredible joy and honor to see what potent expressions come through people that they didn't even plan for and that really are sometimes a surprise to them.
00:44:43.811 --> 00:45:01.916
And it's also a place of experimentation, like you might come in being, like I want to write this poem and you might one day end up bringing your paints and making a painting, like there really is space in there for you to experiment and explore and not necessarily be rigid about what you thought you were supposed to do.
00:45:01.916 --> 00:45:27.157
And yet by the end of our time together, people walk away with these beautiful pieces, and it's always a surprise and it's always we do a sharing and celebration for our final session and it's just such a beautiful experience to have been on this journey with people and see where they're going and then end up with these gorgeous offerings, these gorgeous expressions.
00:45:27.157 --> 00:45:33.152
Thank you, and I would love anyone who's interested to come find out about it.
00:45:34.190 --> 00:45:35.876
When is the next creative fire circle?
00:45:36.909 --> 00:45:39.496
So our plan is to start February 11.
00:45:39.496 --> 00:45:44.940
And so, yeah, I'm definitely open to people.
00:45:44.940 --> 00:45:49.036
If they're curious or interested, you could definitely check it out.
00:45:49.036 --> 00:45:59.476
I know you'll leave the link and then people are welcome to contact me if they have questions or feel a desire about being a part of a creative cauldron.
00:46:01.485 --> 00:46:03.333
It sounds delicious, that's your fullest expression.
00:46:03.333 --> 00:46:05.713
It sounds delicious.
00:46:05.713 --> 00:46:08.351
I highly recommend it, Katherine.
00:46:08.351 --> 00:46:11.400
Is there anything else that you want to ask Elana?
00:46:11.400 --> 00:46:14.719
We don't want to let her go, but we will have to at some point.
00:46:14.719 --> 00:46:16.597
But is there anything else that you would like to ask her?
00:46:17.210 --> 00:46:22.242
I wanted to ask her just two last things, which can be quick, I guess I don't know.
00:46:22.242 --> 00:46:24.336
One of them is more of a desire I have.
00:46:24.336 --> 00:46:32.398
I would love to hear at least 15, 30 seconds of what the humming ritual was for you for 21 minutes.
00:46:32.398 --> 00:46:34.552
I think you did it right.
00:46:34.552 --> 00:46:35.836
That's one thing.
00:46:35.836 --> 00:46:49.260
The other thing that comes to mind for me is you talk about how important ritual time is for you, for you to, I guess, be creative and immersed in being fully expressed, and what that looked like for you as identifying as a creative.
00:46:49.260 --> 00:46:49.960
Is it daily?
00:46:49.960 --> 00:46:52.778
Is it more times than one time a day?
00:46:52.778 --> 00:46:53.552
Is it weekly?
00:46:53.552 --> 00:46:56.315
So those are the two things that come to mind for me.
00:46:56.869 --> 00:47:35.054
So the humming practice is one that I learned from Sylvia Nakatch, although she didn't create it, she was one of my teachers and so it's a practice where, ideally, if you have an instrument and unfortunately because of the settings the Zoom settings I can't play it for you but some kind of a drone which you can find on your phone it's very simple and then what you want to do is you find you want to purse your lips slightly and almost as if you're kissing your finger, and you breathe as you need to breathe, and you focus the attention of the sound in the center of your forehead and there's a vibration.
00:47:35.210 --> 00:47:36.916
That's what the purcing of the lips is for.
00:47:36.916 --> 00:47:49.054
It sends the hum right through the center of the forehead and even if you do it for three to five minutes, you don't have 21 minutes If you do it for one minute I just did that a little bit right now and it changes.
00:47:49.054 --> 00:47:49.771
It opens.
00:47:49.771 --> 00:47:57.657
For me it opens like a spaciousness, it quiets the sort of racing thoughts and in fact, they use it in trauma awards.
00:47:57.657 --> 00:48:07.373
It's actually that nurses use this practice in trauma awards, so it's actually well documented as like a soothing, self-soothing practice.
00:48:09.630 --> 00:48:14.260
I loved when you said it it reminded me of and that's why I was so curious to see if you.
00:48:14.260 --> 00:48:17.139
Thank you so much for the example.
00:48:17.139 --> 00:48:18.291
That's what I wanted.
00:48:18.291 --> 00:48:26.001
It reminds me of those reels that I see when dads are chanting or using any kind of hum.
00:48:26.001 --> 00:48:28.052
Sound with a newborn Reminds me.
00:48:28.052 --> 00:48:29.317
That's one of the things it reminds me of.
00:48:29.317 --> 00:48:41.300
The other thing it reminds me of is of ashrams, when you go and you're sort of chanting these songs and it is about a 20 minute practice and then at the end there is so much more spaciousness.
00:48:41.300 --> 00:48:43.615
But I had never even considered it.
00:48:43.615 --> 00:48:49.539
Yes, I had never heard of it, but when you said it I thought, oh, that makes so much sense.
00:48:49.989 --> 00:48:54.916
So simple and so accessible, and it's something that's the word.
00:48:55.277 --> 00:48:56.099
It was accessible.
00:48:56.099 --> 00:48:59.838
When you said it, I said oh, this is a great tool for our listeners.
00:48:59.838 --> 00:49:07.121
This is something that anybody can try in their own homes and just see how do I feel after a minute or a few minutes.
00:49:07.550 --> 00:49:08.574
Yeah, I feel great.
00:49:08.693 --> 00:49:09.818
after doing it, oh, go ahead.
00:49:09.971 --> 00:49:11.007
Oh, go ahead.
00:49:11.007 --> 00:49:26.797
I was going to say I feel great just doing it for that 30 seconds, that you did it, because I was on mute while you were doing it and I could feel it in my third eye area and in my chest and I could only imagine the potential of doing that for 21 minutes or even five minutes.
00:49:26.838 --> 00:49:27.760
Yeah, any amount.
00:49:27.760 --> 00:49:28.621
Yeah, definitely.
00:49:28.621 --> 00:49:34.856
I think the 21 minutes came because they did brain scans and they noticed that that was how long it takes to shift the brain waves.
00:49:34.856 --> 00:49:42.858
But you get a benefit even just for doing it for a short and again, that is different, obviously, person to person, but that was sort of the average time.
00:49:42.858 --> 00:49:51.815
And you can do it acapella, like we just did, or you can, if you have a shruti, which is an Indian instrument, you can get an app that's like the shruti app, shr-uti.
00:49:51.815 --> 00:50:00.195
So it can be nice to have a drone underneath you, but the easiest and simplest and most accessible way is just to do it as we just did, acapella.
00:50:01.949 --> 00:50:03.054
That is a beautiful practice.
00:50:03.054 --> 00:50:04.034
Thank you for sharing it.
00:50:04.215 --> 00:50:07.597
Yeah, and Catherine, you asked about my creative practice.
00:50:08.670 --> 00:50:09.391
Before I go there.
00:50:09.391 --> 00:50:12.219
When you say drone, is it D-R-O-N-E?
00:50:12.670 --> 00:50:15.219
Yes, and it's not drone like the kinds that are cameras.
00:50:15.219 --> 00:50:18.514
It's a kind of I want to differentiate because people that could be confusing.
00:50:18.514 --> 00:50:20.496
It's a sound.
00:50:20.496 --> 00:50:24.333
It's like this sound that has overtones, that's kind of continuous.
00:50:24.333 --> 00:50:31.556
So if you look it up on the internet you want to look up like drones, not drone like the cameras that go above.
00:50:31.556 --> 00:50:39.777
It's because it's different, but there's just certain instruments and there's overtones and harmonics that come from it that can be really feel delicious in your body.
00:50:40.289 --> 00:50:44.260
So would people Google drone, music drone app drone sound.
00:50:44.349 --> 00:50:44.610
I can send.
00:50:44.610 --> 00:50:46.036
Why don't I send a link as part of the?
00:50:46.036 --> 00:50:47.255
I'll put it in the show notes.
00:50:47.255 --> 00:50:49.572
I'll find a link so that you can Thank you.
00:50:50.971 --> 00:50:55.336
And yes, last thought for me would just be around your ritual time, what that looked like for you.
00:50:56.070 --> 00:51:13.679
So this was something I started a couple of years ago was like what I call my creative temple time, and for me it's a time where I do not have my phone, my phone is off and I'm in my studio with my sound instruments.
00:51:13.679 --> 00:51:21.358
I have a journal, I have paper, and I often will start with an inquiry or a prayer.
00:51:21.358 --> 00:51:47.155
I have an entity that I connect to, that I see as my creative guardian angel kind of, and so I connect to that being, which is really part of me also, and then I usually start with some kind of sounding practice, usually striking the gong or something that's going to sort of represent how they strike a meditation bell in an ashram.
00:51:47.155 --> 00:51:51.699
It's like we're moving from regular time to sacred time.
00:51:51.699 --> 00:51:58.155
I set a timer for however long I'm going to do it, for I usually like to do an hour, but again, this can be modified.
00:51:58.989 --> 00:52:01.960
I don't want you to let length of time stop you.
00:52:01.960 --> 00:52:17.601
You can do it for 20 minutes, you can do it for 10 minutes, whatever it really truly, and then I sound and I express myself vocally, and then, when that feels complete, I will often pull out a journal and begin to write.
00:52:17.601 --> 00:52:33.657
If I'm working on something specific, I might have some poems that I'm looking, then I'll move into maybe a piece of work that I'm actually working on, but really the most important part is that first part, and if I don't get to the second part, that's actually less important.
00:52:33.657 --> 00:52:49.994
It's more important for me personally to be in my sense of creative flow in that way and just having that time and give it the prioritizing, a space where I am fully expressed.
00:52:52.836 --> 00:52:54.722
Yay, thank you so much for sharing that with us.
00:52:54.722 --> 00:52:58.155
I wanted to give listeners an idea of what that would look like.
00:52:58.155 --> 00:53:04.155
Yeah, and if that could be really daunting for someone that has never thought of ritual doesn't really give themselves a long time.
00:53:04.155 --> 00:53:13.005
A long time is, like you know, a minute of just breathing, and so I wanted people to have an idea of what that looks like when it's just.
00:53:13.005 --> 00:53:35.114
I guess, when I think of you, I think of you as a creative practitioner, so your creative time sounds lush and plush and full right, and I wanted someone to know what that could look like Like it doesn't have to be that from the gate starting it could be the 30 seconds of humming, but what it could look like giving yourself time.
00:53:35.114 --> 00:53:40.155
I think the hour example was very generous of you, thank you.
00:53:40.996 --> 00:53:48.400
Yeah, and I want to say that I mean, when I tell it's like you create the creative ritual for your like, that's my ritual, but I don't actually.
00:53:49.003 --> 00:53:51.155
I think that it can look so many different ways.
00:53:52.297 --> 00:54:16.155
You know, and I think setting the space as the key, it's like whether it's lighting a candle or just like burning incense or doing whatever you would do to like make the, you know, to identify this is sacred space, you know, and making sure you like aren't disturbed, those are like the two keys and then whatever else happens inside that five minutes, if you sit there, if you stare out the window, you know, if you whatever make up a song, if you write down a recipe, it doesn't matter.
00:54:16.655 --> 00:54:27.155
It's like you're just, it's like creating that, that space and the timer is really key also like really having a timer because then you can always go on if you feel like you have the time and space, but at least you feel safe.
00:54:27.155 --> 00:54:33.677
You're like, okay, I only have to do this for five minutes or 10 minutes or 15 minutes I actually just posted and I can share with you as well.
00:54:33.677 --> 00:54:42.971
Like a creativity, a ritual and New Year's ritual, creativity ritual that takes people kind of through a step by step, so I can send that as well, if it might be useful to your listeners.
00:54:43.896 --> 00:54:44.956
I think it would be useful.
00:54:44.956 --> 00:55:06.976
I think, when we think of desire, when we think about things that our generation has, I say I, like Generation X, has had the I mean the privilege of practicing, because women before us didn't necessarily have this, all the plethora and all the things that their relationships right.
00:55:06.976 --> 00:55:18.728
But for women who maybe haven't really been with their desire, for women who haven't really been walking this path for a long time, the thought of creating something seems really daunting, like what the hell does that even look like you know?
00:55:18.728 --> 00:55:22.451
Oh, incense, oh candle, oh, just sitting and humming.
00:55:22.451 --> 00:55:28.280
Anything can contribute right to what it could feel or be like for them.
00:55:28.280 --> 00:55:40.155
I think a starting place was very generous, thank you, and I want our listeners to know yes, it can look however you want it to look, and sometimes we can craft hours by trial and error.
00:55:40.155 --> 00:55:41.635
We just try something.
00:55:41.635 --> 00:55:42.617
Oh, I tried.
00:55:43.518 --> 00:55:47.481
I have a practice I'm going to share this that I do.
00:55:47.481 --> 00:55:51.365
I've done for a really long time, I don't know how many decades.
00:55:51.365 --> 00:55:54.608
I just lay on the ground in the afternoon for about 10 minutes.
00:55:54.608 --> 00:55:56.971
It's my grounding practice and I just stare at the ceiling.
00:55:56.971 --> 00:55:58.956
That's it.
00:55:58.956 --> 00:56:12.090
There's no humming, there's no thinking, there's no journaling, it's just an absolute pause, and it at a time in my life when I first started doing that was because there was so much happening.
00:56:12.090 --> 00:56:15.614
My body was going so fast that I just needed something.
00:56:15.614 --> 00:56:23.322
When I started to feel my crash in the afternoon, instead of caffeine or something, that was like, okay, just take a minute Pause my whole day.
00:56:23.322 --> 00:56:27.146
And that was a ritual for me of and just taking time for myself.
00:56:27.146 --> 00:56:30.210
Your ritual sounds, like I said, super plush.
00:56:30.411 --> 00:56:32.677
I love it, thank you, but I also loved what you just said.
00:56:32.677 --> 00:56:36.222
I mean, it's like that feels like something I'm like oh, I want to start doing that.
00:56:36.222 --> 00:56:42.831
Me too Like on that 10 minutes, either outside or inside, you know, just like laying down, and I love that.
00:56:43.534 --> 00:56:48.121
Yes, not on a bed, not on anything soft for you fall asleep on the ground, so that it's not.
00:56:48.121 --> 00:56:53.246
It has a certain level of discomfort because not for napping, it's just for pausing.
00:56:53.246 --> 00:56:56.751
But yes, it was very helpful for me to stay grounded.
00:56:57.856 --> 00:57:04.322
Well, I want to incorporate both of these things into my life, everything you both just said, ilana.
00:57:04.322 --> 00:57:10.849
Is there anything else that you would like to share or would like our listeners to know before we begin to close out?
00:57:12.474 --> 00:57:22.349
Ah, just that, like the creative journey is a lifelong journey and it's not like there's no pressure to like accomplish a certain thing by a certain age or you know that it really is a.
00:57:22.349 --> 00:57:23.269
It's a life path.
00:57:23.269 --> 00:57:25.012
The way that desire is a life path.
00:57:25.012 --> 00:57:33.362
You know, creative expression is a life path and it doesn't matter, you know it's for you, if nobody ever sees what you create or if you do share it with the world.
00:57:33.362 --> 00:57:34.603
Like it doesn't matter.
00:57:34.603 --> 00:57:49.217
It's like it's just like giving yourself the opportunity to express is just such a potent part of life and your overall you know your creative well being, I think, is part of your overall well being.
00:57:49.217 --> 00:57:52.300
Like the same as like your sexual health and your you know your nutrition.
00:57:52.300 --> 00:58:02.170
I see creativity as as having a place in that pantheon of how we can best like live our best and most fulfilled lives.
00:58:03.255 --> 00:58:03.474
Hmm.
00:58:03.956 --> 00:58:04.996
Thank you so much for that.
00:58:04.996 --> 00:58:28.746
I'm remembering when I was in creative fire circle and I had a little soft pink journal at the time and I wrote so many amazing pieces about my childhood and about the homes that I lived in and my sister and, as you were talking, I'm actually having a visual of the writing that I wrote and I'm just feeling so called to go back to that.
00:58:28.746 --> 00:58:33.853
I think what I want to say is I feel such a connection to what I wrote about then.
00:58:33.853 --> 00:58:41.121
It feels so important and I have had this calling like there's something that maybe wants to be born from that.
00:58:41.121 --> 00:58:45.067
Maybe it's a poem, maybe it's a piece of writing or maybe just wants my love and attention.
00:58:45.067 --> 00:58:51.125
Maybe I just want to reread it because I want to feel that again and that that's what came to me when you were just speaking.
00:58:51.125 --> 00:58:52.338
That's so beautiful.
00:58:52.338 --> 00:58:53.864
Thank you for sharing.
00:58:54.175 --> 00:58:55.518
Thank you Truly Thank you.
00:58:55.518 --> 00:58:58.365
And how can our listeners reach you?
00:58:58.365 --> 00:59:00.681
Well, find out more about you.
00:59:02.016 --> 00:59:02.878
You can find me.
00:59:02.878 --> 00:59:06.387
My website is wwwelana bellcom.
00:59:06.387 --> 00:59:11.045
My Instagram is Elana.
00:59:11.045 --> 00:59:13.721
It's either dash or underscore.
00:59:15.577 --> 00:59:16.679
We'll put it in the show notes.
00:59:16.699 --> 00:59:23.489
Yeah, it'll be in the show notes, and so you can find me either of those ways, and my email is just Elana at Elana Bellcom.
00:59:23.489 --> 00:59:29.905
So I would love to hear from you if you have a question about your own creative practice or feel a desire to explore it further.
00:59:32.335 --> 00:59:42.469
Thank you so much for being here today and for gracing our listeners with so much wisdom and beauty about ritual and grief and creative expression.
00:59:43.536 --> 00:59:45.688
Thank you for asking such potent questions.
00:59:45.688 --> 00:59:54.155
That just allowed me to dig so deep, and it's just such a joy to share a conversation with both of your beautiful, brilliant minds and souls.
00:59:54.155 --> 00:59:55.016
Thank you.
00:59:55.137 --> 00:59:55.798
Thank you, Elana.
00:59:55.798 --> 00:59:58.945
It was a pleasure getting to know more about you and your work and your path.
00:59:58.945 --> 00:59:59.927
Thank you.
00:59:59.927 --> 01:00:16.052
Thank you for joining us on the Desire is Medicine podcast Desire invites us to be honest, loving and deeply intimate with ourselves and others.
01:00:16.052 --> 01:00:18.057
You can find our handles in the show notes.
01:00:18.057 --> 01:00:19.420
We'd love to hear from you.