ABOUT THIS EPISODE
Hosts: Jess Furman (as The Nerd) & Nastaran "Nas" Ahmadi (as The Newbie)
What happens when technology changes faster than governments? What makes a city work? And are we entering an era where communities are becoming as important as countries?
Jess disappeared for a month to live in a “Starter City” experiment on an artificial island in Malaysia. No official mayor. No city council. Just a structured community experimenting with what cities—and even countries—might look like in the future.
In this first episode of Decoded, our Newbie, Nas, has no idea where Jess has been. As our Nerd explains the difference between a Network School, a Starter City, a Pop-up City, and a Network State, the conversation becomes much bigger than one trip.
As always, we end with one question:
"Okay... but where do I start?"
Resources
• The Network State (free book): https://thenetworkstate.com
• Learn more about Network School: https://ns.com
(Interested in attending Network School? DM @jessfurmanmuse on Instagram with a short paragraph about why you'd be a good fit for a chance to receive Jess's private referral code for one free week).
• Read the companion article: https://nerdandnewbie.com
A Culture // in // Stacks production.
SHOW NOTES 🔗
TRANSCRIPT 🔗
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Hi everybody, I am Jess Furman. We are going to be blitzing Nas. This is our pilot episode of
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The Nerd and the Newbie by Decoded under Culture and Stacks and we're going to be covering Starter
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Cities. I am so excited to talk to her about it because she has no idea what this is. Most people
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don't. I didn't. I just spent a month in Malaysia with the network school at a pop-up city, also
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Starter City, and follow along. We're going to tell you all about it. All right, let's go blitz Nas.
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wait so how does that actually work welcome to decoded
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are you ready to talk about startup cities and artificial islands across the world i'm ready to
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ask you what the heck either of those two things are all right well let's just go right into it
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what comes to mind when you hear a startup city have you ever heard of that before the terminology
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I mean, Star Trek comes to mind. Like, you know, the Starship Enterprise felt like a startup city. I don't know. Like, or, you know, the Founding Fathers. Like, what is a startup city? And how do you decide you're making one? And how do you find people to live in it with you?
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All right. So as you know, I just spent the last month in Malaysia at a place called the Network School, and it is being touted as a startup city, which I would say is pretty accurate.
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It's basically a pop-up community that is in Forest City in Malaysia.
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It's on an artificial island called Forest City.
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And it's right across, like a stone's throw across from Singapore itself.
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And the whole premise for the Startup City is basically getting together a community of people, finding an area.
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In this case, it's a special economic zone.
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You know what a special economic zone is?
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America?
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I don't know.
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All right.
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So in we live in L.A., there's certain areas that are designated special economic zones like I think Santa Monica might be one of them and a small level like there's slight different like it's incorporated versus something else.
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It's basically just an area where the some legal business legislation might be different than it would be somewhere else.
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So in Malaysia, there might be certain business laws, but in a financial economic zone, it might be tax free, for example, like on this artificial island where I was.
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Got it. Got it. Okay. So an artificial island is just a phrase used to describe one of these special economic zones?
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No. So in this case, what makes this really fun is I'd read about this. I'd read about like basically different areas where you would have what are called pop-up cities, which is a smaller kind of thing.
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It's basically like I was in, I don't know if you remember, I was in Istanbul a few years ago.
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Vitalik, who co-founded Ethereum, this is blockchain, he has a community called Zuzalu and he did a three-month pop-up in Montecito.
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I missed that one, but I made it for the one in Istanbul.
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It was a lot smaller.
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It was called ZuConnect.
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So pop-up cities are different than starter cities, essentially, because with a pop-up city, you can pick any region.
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So there's a bunch of them happening at all times.
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It's basically a bit of a takeover of an area with a group of people, or in this case, these were hackathons, and people were building in the tech space.
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Now, the starter city in a special economic or financial zone, and in this case, on an artificial island, this is more of a permanent structure.
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So I hadn't actually gotten a chance yet to spend any time in a permanent structure somewhere, and this was actually on, yes, an artificial island.
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so this island was created by man and it was created in an area where they designated this
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special financial zone and essentially you get on it and it's like it's gorgeous they're like
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so it's abandoned so whoever decided to build this they're all of these like look there's lore
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around that it was like maybe like a laundering space for people to like put their money and
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so whoever invested in this area you're all these high-rise buildings and there's this beautiful
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foliage everywhere and there are these like ponds and it's like an island and it's very industrial
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like it's across from a lot of like factories and stuff and you see barges going by between like the
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singapore side and the malaysia side but it's abandoned for the most part and what the network
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school has done balaji who basically wrote this book called the network state is he selected this
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area it's been running for a couple years it's really new and early and he's directed he selected
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this area to basically do like a real world test of what a starter city might be. And so they took
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over a hotel and you show up, you pay a fee to be there and everything's all inclusive. There's
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programming, there's wellness, health, like you name it. Like it's just, I spent the entire month
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living there. I didn't have to cook. I didn't have to clean. I had built in social, if I wanted
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social things to go check out um training like it was incredible that sounds that sounds like
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kind of like Shangri-La is it is it like so is it like it you don't have to build a starter city
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on an artificial island but in this case that was the choice that was made but do you then have like
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So you have your community inside the starter city, but do you, do you have a relationship to the people who are doing other things on this artificial island? I mean, like, is there another, there's the hotel where you were that was taken over by this, you know, organization that wanted to do this experiment.
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but presumably there are other entities on this artificial island as well did was there any
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interaction between you guys or or when i was there there were like kids there were parents
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or people walking dogs or like people were coming to the beach every night for fireworks like um
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and what i've heard is that because there's activities that are happening routinely now
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in this building um it's kind of revitalized at least like the little area that that the hotel
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as that. But from what I've seen so far, again, like this is, so the reason one of his theories
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is, and this is something that was an aha moment for me when he, when Balaji spoke the first week
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and kind of gave an intro to what his whole idea for this place was, aside from what I'd read and
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what I'd heard from other people, he basically said, you know, there are a lot of places around
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the world that have infrastructure already. They have running water, electricity, and you've
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probably seen advertisements for like move to japan like get like a for a dollar you could
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have this house or like in italy somewhere in france and like you know it already has like in
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some cases in most cases they need to be fixed up which is similar to this area like there's a
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there's a lot that had to be fixed up about these buildings but at the same time if there's already
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a physical infrastructure in place then what's what caused people to leave right a lot of times
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it was to go to the cities it was to go move to different areas right but no one was necessarily
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migrating out of these areas because they were geographically undesirable necessarily based on
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whether maybe it just was economics right but in the present world with technology with digital
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money with blockchain with remote work ever since the pandemic a lot of people are not going back
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to the office you know you can really like and this is one of his concepts you can really pick
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an area and say hey like what if i get a group of people together i mean this was a building in a
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community but his whole concept is like find places and start organizations and start based
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on community and based on an interest or common interest you guys all have and and find a place
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that has some resources already and maybe build there and what would you say is the most common
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interest among the people you found at this place like what's the most common denominator that
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unifies everyone i would say for the starter city of this this case so basically the network state
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is based off of like the idea of like what technology does and what the promise was of
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nation states and so like the ethos for this initially was kind of entrenched more in i would
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say the blockchain technology sector Balaji was a chief technology officer at um i believe cto at
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coinbase um and uh he works very heavily on usdc which is a stable coin which has been in the news
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a lot lately um it's a stable coin that's crypto stable coin that's basically pegged to the u.s
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dollar um so and he's a tech founder originally like he'd spend a lot of time in san francisco
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so the what i found when i went was it wasn't necessarily very blockchain heavy i expected it
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to be i went um in like just this past may um and may was ethereum month um so there definitely
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were a lot of programs that I felt really comfortable with because I worked a lot in
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this space and I've done a lot of hackathons and I love this space but I was surprised a lot of
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people were just tech oriented um but it also surprised me it wasn't just tech nerds I mean it
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was but it was also families there were over 23 kids there they have programming for kids like
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that whole piece of it where you're like wow like what if I'm a single mother and I want to I want
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to expose my kids to different types of programming and they had free daycare they had programs for
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the kids that were like you know swimming lessons volleyball like but they also had coding for kids
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and like entrepreneurship like training and things like that so imagine being a kid and like you know
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your parent takes you to malaysia for the summer or for a period of time and like you get to meet
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all these other kids and also just get access in a front row seat to this type of education
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So it sounds like there's like, it's like in the world of remote work, there's a way to both, this provides an opportunity to like connect, commune, and maintain enough solitude to do your remote work.
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like some like did you did you ever find it was too much or or was it like just enough do you know
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what i mean community yes the selling point for me was actually it's funny because my friend had gone
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she was there the month before and she was the one that called me and was like this place is amazing
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and she and i met up all over the world like i initially met her in amsterdam at a hackathon
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and ETHGlobal hackathon and then we linked up again at like bogota like i was hosting this like
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women's event and um and then we decided to actually room together at istanbul so the
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ZuConnect community, like she had known them separately than I had known them. And we got to
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like, you know, when I put a post it somewhere that I am getting an Airbnb, she's like, I'll
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take one of the rooms. And so she's kind of my friend for the end of the world with a lot of
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these things. So I had been traveling a lot, and I was really in need of a regroup. And so I told
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her, so what are you doing next month? I was like, I've cleared the whole month, I'm going to be in
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LA, and I'm going to build. And she was like, No, come here and do it. You know, like, this is
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incredible. I'm already here. She was there the month she was there when I got there, but was
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there for a whole month before and um what really sold me was this question that you asked the
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answer is yes you can work async do whatever you want the programming is uh some of it's from the
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core staff but the whole ethos for this community is community sharing and workshops so like i hosted
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an event with elaine my friend from elaine elaine is a company called metropolis global and she was
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there with another company called crossbar that's doing um like cold storage wallet technology we
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did a whole workshop on wallets and we were showing how like crypto wallets work and you
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know for people that didn't know about it at all right a lot of people there were not very into
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crypto or blockchain so it was the first time they were downloading a wallet and we showed them best
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practices and we were able to show them like use cases for wallets that have to do with voting and
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governance like and so like we were able to host that workshop so a lot of the workshops and the
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things you're learning are from other people but you don't have to attend anything it's not like a
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curriculum where you show up and you have to check all these boxes it's at will so I spent probably
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the first week going to a lot of these workshops meeting a lot of people and then I hit a good
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stride with it and then I spent a lot of time at the co-working space about two blocks away
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um whenever I needed real focused attention because everyone was so friendly if you're in
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the cafe a lot of times they'd come and talk to you which is great because they'd be oh here you're
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working on this like well you know I'm working on that and then you'd learn but um yeah like if you
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want to go and like you're working on a book or you have an idea you want to get off the ground
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like you it's as much or as little as you want to participate you can there are people that never
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come out of their rooms and they kind of like sneak out grab a plate of food and go back so
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that's the other cool part is I think like being someone that does travel around a lot like when I
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was in Italy I was alone a lot I could make plans with people but I was trying to find co-working
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spaces and it wasn't the same level of community like this was a you know a way where I could
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really work, but also have people like to work out with if I wanted to. You know, I did a poetry
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slam one night, or you see people at dinner, you see people at the cafe. So like, you really start
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to just build a peer group that's a lot more organized as a community than it would be if
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you just dropped yourself in a random city and worked from a coffee shop. Oh, God, it sounds
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like a, it sounds like the same social structure you get to have as a high schooler, but as an
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adult where you're just in because i you said like um the co-working space a couple blocks away and
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that was the first time i started to expand my brain out of like the brick of and mortar of a
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hotel yeah like it sounds like there was there's more than just one building there's like uh
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is it like there's a plaza or around which there are buildings that you that can join to create
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the city or is it more like the word city is conceptual and it encompasses the places anywhere
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the people that are part of this community go yeah that's a really important distinction and
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i think i'm glad you asked that because i think if people are considering and watching this and
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considering going to pop-up cities um this is actually something that uh is important to know
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the difference so like when I was at Zuzalu or ZuConnect sorry in Istanbul it was it was a main
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building that had a lot of the programming but everyone kind of stayed wherever they felt like
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it so you were all over the city right and then there was like some places where there'd be like
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side events that you'd go um in the case of the network school you're in two main towers so most
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people who come are in two main towers there are long-termers that live there um but but you know
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in this phase of what he's building he was saying i wanted to basically have a place where you
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had a room you could sleep you had food in the same building you had workshops in the same
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building there was a gym in the same building there's a pool that like all of the basic
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essentials that you would need um you still if you want a haircut or if you want to get your
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nails done or go some you have to go somewhere else and he said did say he's figuring out in
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phase two or three like then they start to kind of pull in certain things that are needed from
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the community um he's like but the idea was that you had everything you needed now the long-termers
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who who stay there sign the year lease and a lot of them live in some of the side buildings so
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there's actually like high rises within walking distance that are other apartment styles you know
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more apartment style living as opposed to the hotel um but the idea is that it's self-contained
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but there are other things and one thing that was really cool about this location is you could walk
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next door and see like if you didn't want to just eat you know the the the food which by the way was
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brian johnson do you know who brian johnson is no brian johnson um he's that longevity guy that
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like you're like i think there's like a thing recently where like he's infusing his son's blood
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like he's gonna live forever kind of has tried everything so he has a whole line of different
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products and things but he consulted on the meals and he consulted on the menu so that's the other
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part is like you have the buffet breakfast while you're there which is like amazing because it's
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from all over the world there's like an india station and like a china station there's a um
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And eats all food from around the world for breakfast.
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So that's where if you want to blow your diet, you totally can blow your diet.
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But for lunch and for dinner, it's protein.
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Everything's like a protein.
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There are no seed oils.
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It's all like sweet potatoes, vegetables.
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There's always a beef, a chicken.
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And it sounds like it sounds so is the idea is the idea that someday you'll be able to source the skill sets of the people that make up the community in order to build out options larger than the like more options than the ones that are presented and create more a sense of city.
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Like maybe there's somebody who, I don't know, is a chef and they're interested in tech and they're there and they're like, I want to come back and, you know, make a restaurant here.
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Can I do that?
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And then they maybe can apply to become part of the city or something like that.
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Here's the cool part.
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So there's a website that's up and there's once you're part of the community, there's a whole section of tools and they're tools that are built by people who are there.
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But the tools aren't just tech tools. Some of them are services. So like one guy who's a long termer realized that people wanted two monitors to work. So he bought a bunch of monitors. And when you show up, he like puts little cards up everywhere. And he's like, rent a monitor for me if you want. Someone else was like, you know, it's kind of hard to get around. I'm going to rent scooters. You know, so he has these little like scooters.
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and then apparently even the cafe in the main area originally like there wasn't a cafe in the
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main area and someone just started selling their own coffee or baked goods and then it got to be
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a little bit bigger and now there's a cafe that's like run by one of them you know members so that's
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the whole idea is like like build with and for the community you know as part of it and so like
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people were like incubating different ideas which was also really nice and cool the the thing that
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i want to like i don't want to gloss over is that there's so many different ways to to start up
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these societies and to run them but what was interesting about Balaji's approach is he
00:18:14.300 --> 00:18:20.680
called it uh sass like you know you just see sass software but what what he the acronym for sass
00:18:20.680 --> 00:18:27.820
in his case is society as a software and he said his whole premise is look and this is the thing i
00:18:27.820 --> 00:18:31.960
want to then start asking you questions about now that you have digested at least some of this
00:18:31.960 --> 00:18:35.580
is think about society as a service, right?
00:18:35.680 --> 00:18:36.720
And what he's saying is,
00:18:37.300 --> 00:18:39.120
and this goes back to his book about the network state,
00:18:39.200 --> 00:18:42.340
which I'll drop the link about in the bios and the chat,
00:18:42.420 --> 00:18:44.400
whatever we have below, like the links to his book,
00:18:44.460 --> 00:18:46.100
which is free, by the way, on audio.
00:18:46.440 --> 00:18:47.640
I'm not selling anything.
00:18:47.920 --> 00:18:48.760
Like you can read it.
00:18:48.880 --> 00:18:50.320
It's fantastic and it's so interesting.
00:18:50.920 --> 00:18:52.560
And his is about the network state
00:18:52.560 --> 00:18:54.340
and the network school that I'm talking about
00:18:54.340 --> 00:18:56.180
is like the physical embodiment of this,
00:18:56.260 --> 00:18:58.560
is him trying out and testing out this concept.
00:18:59.040 --> 00:19:01.760
But society as a service is basically this idea
00:19:01.760 --> 00:19:08.340
rooted in the premise that when we agreed to participate as humanity in statehoods in different
00:19:08.340 --> 00:19:13.280
states, there was some sort of social contract, right? There was some idea that if I'm going to
00:19:13.280 --> 00:19:18.320
pool my resources, I'm going to pay taxes, if we're going to all agree to be governed by a set
00:19:18.320 --> 00:19:24.280
of rules in each of these areas, as citizens, what's the promise for the state? Why do we agree
00:19:24.280 --> 00:19:29.980
to give over our individual sovereignty and participate in whatever government or structure
00:19:29.980 --> 00:19:33.740
that we're in why do we all say yes i mean some people have more rights less rights depending on
00:19:33.740 --> 00:19:40.320
where you are but there is some promise that the state has right to fulfill for their citizens and
00:19:40.320 --> 00:19:47.400
his whole concept is that this is failing worldwide which i happen to agree with especially in the u.s
00:19:47.400 --> 00:19:53.440
in taking politics out of it like health care education like where's the money going what is
00:19:53.440 --> 00:19:58.380
the quality of life that you have as you age in the u.s you know and and what do people have access
00:19:58.380 --> 00:20:02.500
to you and where is this what is the promise of what a state is supposed to give you right as a
00:20:02.500 --> 00:20:12.080
citizen yeah i mean it makes me think about like the the promise we make as citizens when we pay
00:20:12.080 --> 00:20:19.920
taxes like it's a it's a we we think we're engaging in our end of a social contract
00:20:19.920 --> 00:20:30.420
where you know we're paying into a system that we are trusting because we technically have a vote
00:20:30.420 --> 00:20:41.320
yes to take care of our interests and we we let that system kind of operate on its own
00:20:41.320 --> 00:20:50.140
based on, it's almost like a faith-based system at this point. And the faith is completely
00:20:50.140 --> 00:20:56.500
disintegrating because there isn't enough money to take care of our elderly, and there probably
00:20:56.500 --> 00:21:05.460
won't be to take care of us. And because, you know, the amount of money we have to pay just
00:21:05.460 --> 00:21:12.700
to make sure we can see a doctor is completely unaffordable. Now, when I pay my taxes, I'm a
00:21:12.700 --> 00:21:18.420
little bit like, I know this isn't working. Like, I know this isn't working, but I'm still doing it
00:21:18.420 --> 00:21:26.840
anyway. And I don't know why exactly anymore. And I think what excites me about this and how
00:21:26.840 --> 00:21:35.240
I do think that this affects everybody is that because every ounce of the planet, every inch of
00:21:35.240 --> 00:21:43.180
the planet is owned by some sovereign nation right you can no longer discover land and just
00:21:43.180 --> 00:21:48.000
stake you know put a stake in it and say i'm going to take you know california i'm going to
00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:53.500
put a stake in this this is my ranch my farm like you don't have that option so these starter cities
00:21:53.500 --> 00:22:01.560
to me represent hope right for people globally because it's the it's a chance to look at the
00:22:01.560 --> 00:22:08.320
world and say okay and again this is based off of mobility right because my visa as an american
00:22:08.320 --> 00:22:12.620
citizen or my sorry the visas i'm able to get because of my citizenship and my passport
00:22:12.620 --> 00:22:16.900
there's a lot of privilege in that and there are other people who like especially when i was in
00:22:16.900 --> 00:22:21.000
malaysia like had to leave a few days earlier because they were only granted a 30-day visa
00:22:21.000 --> 00:22:25.980
to malaysia i was granted a 90 days i could stay 31 days like they're all there's all sorts of
00:22:25.980 --> 00:22:31.000
privilege baked into mobility globally but what i will say is what's cool about this concept and
00:22:31.000 --> 00:22:40.760
What I really want people to think about when they go, oh, this sounds futuristic or Star Trek, is I want them to think about, like, what do you think you should be getting from society?
00:22:40.760 --> 00:22:46.680
And, like, what do you think that, like, you know, or your communities need?
00:22:47.040 --> 00:22:54.920
And just start to kind of pick your ears up when you hear pop-up cities and startup cities and start to think, like, is this the only option there is?
00:22:55.520 --> 00:22:58.420
Or can I build my own, right?
00:22:59.260 --> 00:23:25.160
And that is actually a possibility. I know it sounds futuristic. I know it sounds wild. But there is technology. And now we've gone more remote. There are ways to do this. And people are doing this globally. And that to me is really exciting. Because I came back from Malaysia, you know, 10 pounds lighter, focused with like more of a global community than before. And I paid the cost of less than the cost of my rent in Los Angeles, all included for everything.
00:23:25.640 --> 00:23:31.500
And, you know, I come back here and it's like my rent's more, my car payments, my insurance, food, cleaning.
00:23:31.780 --> 00:23:40.520
And so you start to think, like, if I have the same amount of money and we're pooling resources together and we're all sharing knowledge, what does that look like?
00:23:40.560 --> 00:23:41.600
What does life look like?
00:23:41.800 --> 00:23:43.660
You know, what kind of culture does that create?
00:23:43.980 --> 00:23:53.600
I mean, it's interesting because what my next the next thing I was thinking about was like, well, I'm not going to say it's easy to do this in Malaysia.
00:23:53.600 --> 00:24:21.200
But I am going to say it is it makes sense to do something like this in an experiment inside of a single structure that one person can with a lot of wealth could own and who can like conduct this experiment sort of in in the clear because they're on an artificial island and there aren't, you know, municipal municipalities that they have to deal with or whatever.
00:24:21.200 --> 00:24:28.340
but like red tape yes yeah there's less red tape but i was like i'm thinking like could a person do
00:24:28.340 --> 00:24:41.640
this in you know toronto or like in in los angeles or in our is there a way to do this inside of an
00:24:41.640 --> 00:24:48.200
already existing of a non-artificial island you know what i mean well so there's two other pop-up
00:24:48.200 --> 00:24:53.940
cities i would say so pop-up cities like they're a bunch that are coming up globally and again if
00:24:53.940 --> 00:24:58.400
you're interested in this kind of thing follow along uh for our podcast but also like culture
00:24:58.400 --> 00:25:03.580
and stacks i'm going to start posting about some of these opportunities um because they need people
00:25:03.580 --> 00:25:07.440
to populate them but they also want like-minded people that are interested but more permanent
00:25:07.440 --> 00:25:11.880
structures there's two others that come to mind one is Próspera and that's in honduras and that's
00:25:11.880 --> 00:25:15.640
been around for quite a few years and there's another one and that's location dependent like
00:25:15.640 --> 00:25:19.380
you would go to Próspera there's an area you can go you visit it um i'm not sure what their
00:25:19.380 --> 00:25:23.640
citizenship looks like citizenship and they are more like blockchain based so there's they have
00:25:23.640 --> 00:25:28.380
their own currency i believe and they help people set up companies like are blockchain based and
00:25:28.380 --> 00:25:34.520
then there's um zanzibar which is in africa so there actually are two other i would call them
00:25:34.520 --> 00:25:41.100
you know startup settlements maybe but it's not actually a revolutionary thing and i know you're
00:25:41.100 --> 00:25:47.020
saying like yeah sure in balaji's case like it helps to be you know a tech millionaire with tech
00:25:47.020 --> 00:25:52.320
millionaire friends that can afford to set it up at this level um but his goal is to have this be
00:25:52.320 --> 00:25:56.280
you know he's like look maybe the most that we do is this is a startup city for other startup cities
00:25:56.280 --> 00:26:00.460
and people come here and they get inspired and he's like we have a network of these things where
00:26:00.460 --> 00:26:05.020
people can kind of move between them um you know you don't have a need to have a lot of money to
00:26:05.020 --> 00:26:10.260
start this like there are people that have communes and you know again i i hesitate to say communes
00:26:10.260 --> 00:26:12.380
because it's the non-digital version of this,
00:26:12.400 --> 00:26:14.900
and I think a lot of people then think communes, cults, hippies,
00:26:14.980 --> 00:26:17.740
but the reality is pooling resources is nothing new.
00:26:18.020 --> 00:26:18.720
It really isn't.
00:26:18.800 --> 00:26:22.180
If you're part of a religious organization or a group or a nonprofit,
00:26:22.660 --> 00:26:25.500
you do bake sales, everyone shows up, they pitch in.
00:26:25.980 --> 00:26:29.480
So I think the cool part about this is, like, think a little bigger.
00:26:29.480 --> 00:26:34.080
Like, you don't have to end up in a nursing home, ideally, hopefully not.
00:26:34.240 --> 00:26:39.140
I mean, you know, again, money is a factor, but also community.
00:26:39.140 --> 00:26:51.000
If you can band together and you can find like minded people around like a mission driven thing and start to pull your resources like we're told like you have to get your apartment alone, you have to buy your house like that's independence.
00:26:51.000 --> 00:26:56.560
And like we've been sold this thing that I'm I'm not buying at this age anymore.
00:26:56.560 --> 00:27:17.920
I mean, I couldn't agree more. I do. I do think there's like this. There's like people, you know, people our age and a little bit older will get their tentacles up when they hear anything mildly socialist because, you know, we did.
00:27:17.920 --> 00:27:23.660
we do live in the post-Cold War era and there is still the like, you know, the show Star City on
00:27:23.660 --> 00:27:30.380
Apple TV right now is very much about like what happens when that runs amok. I do think there is
00:27:30.380 --> 00:27:39.700
a lot to be gained from just conceptually embracing the notion that we might be better
00:27:39.700 --> 00:27:46.660
off together than alone and that like there is something to there is something to
00:27:46.660 --> 00:27:56.360
mine when people get together that doesn't exist when people are single entities trying to survive
00:27:56.360 --> 00:28:04.500
i think that like this conversation requires you to understand that like you can build things with
00:28:04.500 --> 00:28:11.380
people who are like-minded in a way that suits what you want your end goal to be you know and
00:28:11.380 --> 00:28:16.740
and that collective action doesn't have to mean socialism or communism it just means like you know
00:28:16.740 --> 00:28:21.660
if I need someone to drive me to the airport or you know I'm not gonna raise my own animals kill
00:28:21.660 --> 00:28:27.920
them build my own house like it's it's unavoidable to have to rely on people and so like how do you
00:28:27.920 --> 00:28:35.520
completely i mean i i like that i like being able to draw that distinction
00:28:35.520 --> 00:28:40.660
um really overtly so what happens if somebody's like
00:28:40.660 --> 00:28:48.580
not don't sign me up but definitely let me try that do you know what i mean like i'm curious like
00:28:48.580 --> 00:28:57.440
what what does a um a startup city curious do because you know what i mean yes because
00:28:57.440 --> 00:29:03.100
would you consider yourself startup city curious before you started this or were you already on
00:29:03.100 --> 00:29:11.460
board i want a t-shirt that says startup city curious but you're just like startup city you're
00:29:11.460 --> 00:29:12.660
Just like, just curious.
00:29:13.680 --> 00:29:19.160
You know, I think for me, I've always been curious.
00:29:19.400 --> 00:29:21.040
I mean, I was in entertainment for a really long time.
00:29:21.040 --> 00:29:23.840
So I've never done like the laid out path.
00:29:23.920 --> 00:29:27.360
Like, you know, I did go to college, but like, you know, then bartending route and then starting
00:29:27.360 --> 00:29:27.940
my own companies.
00:29:27.940 --> 00:29:29.740
And so I've always been a bit renegade.
00:29:29.740 --> 00:29:34.460
So I will say, you know, if there's something that's done a little differently, I probably
00:29:34.460 --> 00:29:35.360
have a propensity.
00:29:35.980 --> 00:29:44.620
And I think for me, the excitement is never in my lifetime, Nas, did I think that I would be getting to have a conversation like this.
00:29:44.700 --> 00:29:51.600
I was like watching maybe Star Trek and all these things thinking like the final frontier might be space and I'll never live to see it.
00:29:51.600 --> 00:29:59.600
And then seeing how like this technology, the technology that has evolved has allowed these pop-up cities to happen.
00:30:00.220 --> 00:30:09.180
Never in my lifetime did I think I'd be sitting in meetings about governance for like creating like, you know, currency for, you know, these organizations.
00:30:09.180 --> 00:30:17.320
And that's a lot of my life now is having these conversations about what does it look like to have a currency around this group or this thing, you know, in this community?
00:30:17.480 --> 00:30:19.020
And what does governance look like, you know?
00:30:19.020 --> 00:30:30.760
so um how do you how do you like i know how Jess Furman gets involved in going to a startup city
00:30:30.760 --> 00:30:38.720
because she has a friend who's there you know how does yeah and i know how i would get to go
00:30:38.720 --> 00:30:45.000
because i know Jess Furman do you know what i mean like but like how do how does the the lay newbie
00:30:45.000 --> 00:30:51.540
yeah figure out how to get involved because this sounds really really fascinating to me at this
00:30:51.540 --> 00:30:57.540
point yeah look i think i mean i'll bring it back to my music roots like you you can't have a music
00:30:57.540 --> 00:31:02.840
career by yourself like you have to you know it's community it's people who are going to play with
00:31:02.840 --> 00:31:07.980
you it's managers agents it's you know it's it's the people that record when you don't know how to
00:31:07.980 --> 00:31:12.700
record you know it's the people that you know have radio play that they can link you up with or
00:31:12.700 --> 00:31:18.720
you know a place to stay while you're touring like so i think community like you if you are
00:31:18.720 --> 00:31:22.900
interested if this is exciting to you and it sounds space age like you're right it's scary
00:31:22.900 --> 00:31:28.120
to just like i mean do what my friend did who just like trusted and like hopped on a plane and
00:31:28.120 --> 00:31:32.240
bought a ticket you know like basically i gotta end up getting off the wait list and going
00:31:32.240 --> 00:31:37.840
like that's a whole other level of bravery i think in his case but i would just say if you're
00:31:37.840 --> 00:31:42.680
hearing this and you're excited and you're interested um join different communities
00:31:42.680 --> 00:31:47.540
definitely check out the network state book free it's a networkstate.com again i get nothing from
00:31:47.540 --> 00:31:53.320
it but you'll be able to download the book if you want it um their links uh you know and um and then
00:31:53.320 --> 00:31:58.540
i have i do have an invite code that gets you a week free um and it's actually only 1500 for the
00:31:58.540 --> 00:32:04.160
month typically this gets it to 1250 i don't post the link publicly because i really want
00:32:04.160 --> 00:32:11.180
to uh contribute to this as a meaningful community but if you um follow me on instagram
00:32:11.180 --> 00:32:17.340
it's @jessfurmanmuse i'll drop the links and you dm me and you give me like a little paragraph
00:32:17.340 --> 00:32:23.740
about who you are and why this might be interesting to you i'd be happy to share that that code um i
00:32:23.740 --> 00:32:27.920
again i don't want to post it because one of the things i respected was that that community is
00:32:27.920 --> 00:32:33.400
really special so you know i think to your point if you're new like yeah listen to a podcast like
00:32:33.400 --> 00:32:39.480
this and one of the reasons why like this is our what pilot is our pilot episode not you know the
00:32:39.480 --> 00:32:44.820
nerd and the newbie but one of the reasons why i wanted to do this is because people don't have
00:32:44.820 --> 00:32:51.160
access to people like me normally um or you know even people like you know the communities that i'm
00:32:51.160 --> 00:32:54.720
mentioning and they don't have access to people like you like there'll be times in this podcast
00:32:54.720 --> 00:32:58.740
where i'm the newbie and you're the nerd right which we've already discussed you know like yeah
00:32:58.740 --> 00:33:04.240
like literally right like we live in hollywood we're in entertainment like you know i think for
00:33:04.240 --> 00:33:09.160
me giving people access is this is the piece right so you know of course i'm going to be biased and
00:33:09.160 --> 00:33:15.480
say follow follow us you know like you know yeah but i look i like what you said about like
00:33:15.480 --> 00:33:22.840
like write something about yourself and why you're interested and dm you and let it be
00:33:22.840 --> 00:33:30.280
and exchange that way so that you can you can you can feel like i mean you don't want to feel
00:33:30.280 --> 00:33:38.780
like you're introducing people um that aren't community-minded to a community that you know
00:33:38.780 --> 00:33:44.160
how to communicate so like communicate that skill set so i think that's the other thing if you're
00:33:44.160 --> 00:33:47.860
listening to this and you're like but what do i have to offer like everyone has something to offer
00:33:47.860 --> 00:33:53.420
like everyone has a unique i really believe this human experience and some looks more glossy and
00:33:53.420 --> 00:33:58.580
shiny than others like Nas's credits my credits but the reality is your unique life perspective
00:33:58.580 --> 00:34:03.640
is not my life perspective and i think the cool part about going to something like this is really
00:34:03.640 --> 00:34:09.300
tapping into what your unique perspective is and realizing that if you are very different that's a
00:34:09.300 --> 00:34:14.700
great thing because it means that you've navigated things that someone like me hasn't and i can learn
00:34:14.700 --> 00:34:19.480
from you because you are you are so different so i i hope if anyone's listening to this they don't
00:34:19.480 --> 00:34:23.800
feel discouraged if they're not flying around the world and doing hackathons or if you look at our
00:34:23.800 --> 00:34:28.940
bios and you're like well of course you do all these crazy things like the the big takeaway for
00:34:28.940 --> 00:34:34.160
this at least for us or at least for me with a goal with us in this podcast you know in decoding
00:34:34.160 --> 00:34:41.240
these things is to have everyone who watches this have see a little bit of themselves in these
00:34:41.240 --> 00:34:47.820
things and start to move towards it instead of feeling intimidated by it sign me up
00:34:47.820 --> 00:34:56.060
all right now it's a final question for you as a newbie now that we've had this whole like
00:34:56.060 --> 00:35:03.340
as a starter city you know startup city newbie um what's your takeaway would you go what do
00:35:03.340 --> 00:35:11.660
you think and you know no no bias but like what's your takeaway i mean i i the idea of
00:35:11.660 --> 00:35:20.240
re like i won't say reinventing the social contract but reinvigorating it with like
00:35:20.240 --> 00:35:28.720
inside a context where the people are actually the people that are affected by it are actually
00:35:30.220 --> 00:35:37.520
getting to like provide the energy and the pulse of the society that it's part of
00:35:37.520 --> 00:35:45.420
is pretty, pretty compelling. Like, I feel like we live in a really disjointed
00:35:45.420 --> 00:35:56.640
society right now. Like culture is, culture is something we invent in order to feel we have
00:35:56.640 --> 00:36:04.480
community like we don't it's almost like we're just looking for ways to connect with each other
00:36:04.480 --> 00:36:11.600
and we're hungry for it I know I am and I look for it in my friends and I look for it in my
00:36:11.600 --> 00:36:19.220
interactions and I but I have to do all of the generating of that myself like to be in a place
00:36:19.220 --> 00:36:22.040
where that engine is just running
00:36:22.040 --> 00:36:25.440
and I get to sort of surf that wave
00:36:25.440 --> 00:36:29.680
and contribute the best aspects of myself
00:36:29.680 --> 00:36:34.740
and then experience other people getting to do the same.
00:36:35.440 --> 00:36:39.380
That sounds pretty thrilling.
00:36:39.880 --> 00:36:42.800
So I would, I mean, I would, I think I would try it.
00:36:43.000 --> 00:36:44.320
I mean, I think I would get there
00:36:44.320 --> 00:36:46.100
and be kind of like your friend and like,
00:36:46.160 --> 00:36:47.720
I don't know what the fuck is going on.
00:36:49.220 --> 00:36:52.700
But I think it would be cool to be there, you know?
00:36:53.180 --> 00:36:53.480
Yeah.
00:36:53.960 --> 00:36:54.180
Yeah.
00:36:54.180 --> 00:36:55.820
All right.
00:36:55.900 --> 00:36:58.080
Well, thank you to everybody for joining us.
00:36:58.180 --> 00:36:59.680
This is our pilot episode.
00:37:00.060 --> 00:37:01.120
I'm Jess.
00:37:01.820 --> 00:37:02.800
I'm Nas.
00:37:03.280 --> 00:37:06.980
And this is Decoded, the nerd and the newbie.
00:37:07.320 --> 00:37:10.740
And like I mentioned, we're going to be switching roles on different topics.
00:37:11.320 --> 00:37:14.740
But if there's anything that you heard that you liked, please look at the captions.
00:37:15.040 --> 00:37:18.900
I'm going to put as many links to resources as I can specifically related to this episode.
00:37:19.220 --> 00:37:25.880
And then please click follow, like, and share so that as we continue to build content, you
00:37:25.880 --> 00:37:28.080
guys can give us feedback and let us know what you want to learn about.
00:37:28.320 --> 00:37:29.360
But thank you for tuning in.
00:37:29.400 --> 00:37:30.200
We appreciate your time.