Sky Sports’ Eoin Morgan Interviews His Sister: Why I Started Decoded

Decoded - Career Paths Translated: This season of Decoded is brought to you by Morgan Walsh Consulting. For details on career coaching, go to Morganwalshconsulting.ie. Laura Morgan Walsh, welcome. Thank you very much. Again, we don't say thank you, do we? yeah. Okay, go again. To kick off season two of Decoded, my brother offered to interview me for a Meet the Host episode. So this is me. This is my career path translated, and this is my why for starting the podcast. I really hope you enjoy. Laura Morgan Walsh, welcome. What a special treat we have in store. Tell us who is Laura Morgan Walsh and why start this podcast? So my name is Laura Morgan Walsh and I suppose first and foremost I am married to Eddie. Together we have three boys ranging in age from eleven to eighteen. I am the founder and owner of Morgan Walsh Consulting. And through that, I am a board director for a number of organizations, both commercial and voluntary. I've spent 20 years in payments and I'm the European CEO for a US organization that is setting up in Ireland. The reason I set up the podcast was really in reflection on my career. I started to look back and go, How did I actually get here? Considering where I started and the doubts and the twists and turns that I had along the way. How did I get here? And how does my eldest son chart a career? And I've been very blessed throughout my career to meet an awful lot of very hardworking, intelligent, bright, generous people who've also managed to carve a path and carve a career. And I thought those conversations could be really useful for people who are are setting out on their career. And they're actually the conversations that I would have loved to have access to when I was. probably around seventeen to twenty five because it's a long road of doubt, questions, and it's it's it it doesn't end at twenty-five, it keeps going, let's be honest. But that was really my my starting point for the podcast and having these conversations. And people have been very generous to give me their time and and share their experiences so that I can share this platform. You mentioned your eldest son. How old is he and what's the correlation and difference between what he's going through and and what you went through at that stage as well. So he's just turned 18. I think the world is different. I think there are more pressures, but more opportunities. There are new careers that didn't exist. when I was looking at what my choices were. But I think the biggest similarity is actually he doesn't know what he wants to do. I didn't know what I wanted to do. And I think that speaks to a large majority of people. There are very few people that actually know what they want to do at 17, then go do it and continue to flourish in that career. Life just isn't that straightforward. It's a very different word now. And I suppose that was part of me trying to understand How do I guide him or help guide him in this? And and looking back, what are the things I did that I did well? Not saying he's going listen to me on any of it, but it was a a conversation that it started in my head around, you know, how do I help? Because people helped me and I just think it's so important that when you can, you should. Take us back to that period of your life, school, fifteen, sixteen year old Laura. What what kind of student were you? I was a hard worker. I wouldn't say that I was top of the class, but I worked to get very close to the top of the class. It didn't come natural. I was a I grounded out, but I was very determined. I enjoyed school. I wanted to get on. I wanted to succeed, I didn't know what that meant, but I knew that school was a path. And I suppose in our house, very clear that school and education was going to be the path to where I wanted to get to. Go into that a bit more, where you wanted to get to. You mentioned the thing you had in common with your eldest son is actually the unknown. Tell us about what subjects you liked, didn't like, the role of sport, because I know you love sport and you think it's had a big impact in your life as well. How has that taken you to being involved in payments, being on a board and being a an executive? It's funny, you'd love to think that every decision you made was so impactful, right? But actually the the choices that got made for me in secondary school were dictated by a timetable. I loved Irish in primary school. Irish just made sense to me. I understood it. I love I love the the thing about languages is that there isn't just one way. But in conversation with mother, it was like, Well, you know, you like Irish and you like talking, so maybe you should do languages in secondary school. And then I was like, Sounds reasonable. And she was like, you know, what we'll do is we'll pick French, German, and you probably need science to get into university. And I remember the day she went down to the school to select those. She came back and she goes, Yeah. So science is on at the same time. As French and German. We are going to do mechanical drawing. And I was like, what's that? now, that's what architects do. Sold. Absolutely fine. Design houses, yeah. That sounds great. Not a notion, right? And I'll never forget the first day that we had the the chosen subjects. We were all those ninety of us all brought into the hall and they called out the Mech Drawing class by surnames, alphabetical order, and the whole place erupted because I was the only girl in the class. I can w I can remember what I was wearing. I remember the sweat dropping down my back in the full uniform, the big bag with all the books and just putting my head down. and walking out of the hall and the the woodwork room was at the very end of the school, marching all the way down going, I'm going to kill her. And then we walked in and I sat at a woodwork bench I'll sit in the middle? Stop beside a fellow I didn't know. And the teacher, Mr. Maddock, just looked down and he says to everybody, Don't know what they're laughing at. Girls are better at this than boys. And that was it. I straightened up the the blood eventually left my big red face. And I said, okay, we're on. And it kind of continued that way for Leaving Cert I was good at Mech Drawing but French and German was much easier for me. And it became clear that, yeah, talking in languages, she wasn't wrong. That's exactly what I wanted to do. Did them for my leave and cert, had to drop McDrawn again because of a timetable issue. So I did history, geography, French and German. Got a good leaving start. But in terms of knowing exactly what I wanted to do, I didn't. So I did arts in UCD, but very quickly realized by Christmas of that year that it wasn't going to be a straight path. So to anyone on the outside, French, German, and politics, arts to being U CD, you want to be a teacher, do you? I was like, absolutely not. That is That is the last thing I want to be. And it's funny how your upbringing has such an impact regardless of what happens, because if you'd ask my mother, she was like, no, the European Commissioner is where I see you. You you'll be with the politicians in in Europe and you maybe be an interpreter for them. But by Christmas of that year in UCD, I discovered that anyone that was doing French and German. had French or German parents and grandparents and had spent every summer of their life in those countries, So, you know, the bar was so much higher than I thought it was going to be. I wasn't going to reach that bar. Plus, over time I realized, you know what, I actually don't want to speak anyone else's words. I I've a lot to say for myself. And if I am going to use languages, it'd be to speak my own words. But y you talk about sport and the impact that it's had. I I always come back to this because I had no idea. I mean, there's six of us, we were put into every single sport that was going in order that they knew where we were and that we weren't, you know, hanging around street corners. I'd I'd love to know what happens on street corners 'cause we never got a chance to find out. We were signed up to everything. But the gift that that actually was unbeknownst to me was that I got to learn how to be part of a team. Because in being part of a team, you have to know your role. What what are you bringing to that team? You have to have the discipline to be prepared for that. Did you get to sleep the night before? Have you got your gear ready? Are you on time? Did you go training? Are you working on developing it to the next level? And like all of these bits and pieces that you learn through sport, that's everything that I've used in my career to to push myself forward. Even in that moment in the mech drawing room, the fact that I had one person back in me and that the bar was high and that that was something to reach, the girls were good at this. Well, I tell you, I am gonna be one of them. the biggest gift sport gave me was not the ability, but the drive to compete. And that that's not to be confused with winning, because they're two different things. The drive to compete is taking your seat at the table. It's putting your hand up to say, Yeah, yeah, I'll give it a go. I want to be contributing. They're all the component parts that I used whenever something was happening. But in contrast to that, that period in college, I felt I felt very lost because I didn't know now what the plan was going to be. And sport is also like that. Where you're trying something and actually you don't know if there's any end in sight with this or if there's any outcome. Every time you cross the field, you are guaranteed nothing. Guaranteed nothing. You aren't, even with all the training that you've done, even with the best preparation, you can come up against teams that are better than it. You can have a bad day. So you're you're not guaranteed anything. But I think it teaches you all that in that the world doesn't end because of it. And I think that's what kept me going through it. So the turning point, I would say, is when I went to France and Germany in third year. A lot of my counterparts were going on Erasmus because they were only studying one language, right? It would make sense. Why would you do two? but Erasmus A wasn't an option in in our house. but B, it wouldn't have made sense. Because you have to pick one for the year. So if you went to France and studied there, I wouldn't be able to speak a word of German coming back for my finals. So at home, it was like, right, so what are you gonna do? I was like, I don't know. And I was like, Well, off you go, down to the credit union, got a loan, bought a Ryanair ticket, and I had been working in the tourist office in Dublin Airport and I'd met a girl who had done her Erasmus in Lyon in France. She gave me the n number of a fella who she had worked for in a pub. And I packed a bag with a one-way ticket and off I went. This was the beginning of I think Laura two dot zero. I thought I was able to do a lot of things, not a clue. Had to learn how to do everything. I got the job, found a place to live. That six months I spent working in the bar in France, living on my own. Like I was dreaming in French. I was talking in my sleep in French. I absolutely loved it. But it was time then to go to Germany, or I was going to be snookered for my finals. So I contacted the guys that were doing their German degree. They were in Aachen in Germany. And I went There was a push from home, but there was equally a lack of fright or nervousness to just I don't know if you call it courage. I just think it's the the absence of knowing any better. And I went and I did. That probably takes you up to about 21, 22 year old Laura. Now you'll have so many listeners, both students and parents, that will be in classrooms where they're in the wrong subject or feel like they are and feel like it has no relevance. You've listed all of the subjects that you did and the one that you liked, which are all, in my eyes, are relevant to where you ended up. What would your advice to them at school be, but also sitting in front of a CAO for? that's a great question. Because subjects in school are so different to subjects in college and in life. So for example, I thought I was deadly at French and German and then went into college and went, my God, the bar is so much higher. So I don't think you can be sure regardless. So if if you land in college and you're not sure because this is very different, that's normal, is what I'd say. the irony is I'm CEO of a of an Irish entity I have managed global teams for US companies that had budgets of millions And what's the one thing I hated? Maths. And what's the one thing I never did in school? Business. So don't be defined by the parameters of what a subject is in school. If you are interested in it, then Go and find out about it. I think the access to information and to knowledge is so much broader now than it would have been when we were at school and at university. I had a thing in my head that I wasn't good at maths. That's not the case at all. You you can kind of get predefined ideas in your head. Like my strongest subject by far was Irish. But I just saw absolutely no point in doing Irish unless I wanted to be a teacher. And that was the only thing I was sure I did not want to be in life. And I stand by that and having been through COVID with kids at home. But don't write the subjects off. Even in college, French and German, there was an awful lot of literature, and that's completely different to going and working and living in the country and experiencing it. And there's so much more to a subject than what it is you're going to learn. you will inherently know what makes sense to you. And once you have a feeling of what makes sense to you, just dig a little bit deeper on that. What is it about it? Is it the fact it's creative? don't let your opinion of the of the subjects be primarily just defined by what's in front of you because that may not be the case. So the would arts have been your choice. because of that flexibility. And if it was an arts, what were the other options? I wouldn't have got enough points for European studies in Trinity College, I'm so glad it didn't happen. At the time, that's all I wanted to happen. I wanted it to be defined. I wanted to have a qualification that meant that I was qualified for something that meant I would get a job, right? But that is not the best path necessarily. And I think the best thing I did was arts, even though I found it absolutely torturous, I came out going, well, that's lovely. Qualified for nothing. What am I going to do now? You know? And I genuinely believed that. Whereas the advice I'm giving today to anyone that will listen is do the broadest degree that you can. Whether that's business and something, whether it's arts, whether it's law and something, like just go and find out what it is you like and experience it all because there could be something in there that you go, my God, that makes sense to me. And then you have s you have a nugget and you can you can dig a little bit deeper on it. Do you think working while you were at university and playing sport and delving into absolutely everything helped you? Because I think perception of students is now that quite a lot of idle time unless they're other things to do. mine was out of necessity. I had, I think the year of my finals I had three different part-time jobs But in hindsight, the skills that you develop through that are the ones that that make the difference in getting that first job. Once you are 16, 17, you can get a job and you should be getting a job. Dealing with the public. will teach you skills that cannot be learned in a book. You know, you have to you have to get on with people, you have to turn up on time, you have to do organize your life. So I was playing cricket, I was working, and I was studying. It teaches you things that you rely on throughout your whole life. not just about getting jobs, but also about how to live, you meet all sorts that you work with, you meet all sorts that you You have to serve and you have to grin and bear it. And then you also get to meet people where you go, my God, I'd love to be like them. If I'm ever in a position like that, they make me feel really good. they managed to change that shift for me and I really appreciate it. And that's you know, it's learning to rub along and get along. There are skills that you won't learn in college. you won't learn off any book. I also think during this idle time, if you don't fill it with something else, that's when the uncertainty during that phase amplifies and multiplies. So do you think that helped you? Because again, during the unknown period of school all the way through to university before you even get your first full-time job. There's a lot of things to worry about if if you have the time. All I remember from that time is head down. all I did know is that I had to get a degree. End of story. So I'm here to get the degree. That's what I'm going to get and I will figure this out when this comes to an end. it's very clear I won't be going to the European Commission. I'm still not going to be a teacher. I was always confident that because I'm willing to work, I'll figure something out. I did all kinds of jobs. I was a nurse's aide in a Alzheimer's unit. I was in a jewellery shop. I worked packing bags in a supermarket. I worked in the tourist office. I worked in a video shop. I had all kinds of jobs. So there was an inherent confidence that regardless of the degree and the career, I will have a job. Not sure what it you know, where it will lead or what will happen. But head down, get the degree. So you have the degree from UCD. It's in your back pocket. Tell us about your first full-time job and where that led to. And actually more importantly, what industry was it in? It was in technology. They were a software company. And I was lucky at the time of coming out that there weren't enough people to fill jobs. So I applied to a German software company for a phone job. So if you bought this software, you were entitled to maintenance sessions for that, whether it was a go live, whether it was an upgrade or whether it was just a regular maintenance. And I would match your availability with one of our engineers who had the expertise to do that. And I I was bored out of my mind. I loved the company. They were so nice to work for. It was a lovely environment. But I just once I got the hang of it, I was like, What else can we be doing here? What else is there? Right. I would have my work done very quickly. Somebody made the mistake of inviting me to a meeting one day and I was like, yeah, no. yeah, sure, I'll take that. I was kind of stretching the the job that I had to to do more. And then a position came up. They were creating a new position. I went home and I had mentioned that, you know, there's this job and Mum was like, sure, print out the job description. And I said, Sure, I'm only in the door as well, right? That's not going to happen. And print out the job description, bring it home. And it had things like, you know, motivating a team on it. It had things like dealing with conflict. It had things like having difficult conversations. And I was like, sure. Like, I don't have any of that And Mam was like, You've been captain cricket team since you were thirteen. Do you mean to tell me you haven't had difficult conversations or you haven't had conflict? And you haven't had to motivate a team. So do you have all this? But it's in sport. It's just not in the work, but it is transferable. By the end of my dinner that evening, I was like, Yeah. Right. I'm applying for this job. So went in, applied for the job, and I actually I met the senior operations manager, Paul, a couple of years ago, and he said to me, I'll never forget that interview. You convinced me and the head of HR that it was going to be just like running a cricket team. and I got the job. That was me putting my hand up. That was me realising that I had built all of these skills without realising they were skills. Just by not being round street corners and just by turning up and wanting to compete. I had learned how to this how to do these things that would then transfer into an adult life. Now you're a very proud mum. Take us on a journey from that period of your life, to having your first child. Jakers There's such an internal struggle Eoin with this is who I am. I've worked hard to get to where I am. Am I putting it all on the line by also wanting to do this? We wanted to have a family and we tried long and hard to have a family. It was a very deliberate decision that we made, and we were very, very grateful to have a family. But it still felt like I've done so much to get here. And now what is going to happen? Looking back on it, I had very good people around me. I had a husband who understood that that he's he's also been very successful at sport. So our house is run on a team basis. we operate for whatever this team needs right now. Who needs to play what part? That that was number one. I also worked with colleagues one colleague in particular, Rafaela Bonamonte, she was one child ahead of me. We were pregnant at the same time, but she'd already had a child. So this was her second go-around. And when we came back from maternity leave, she gave me a piece of advice that has actually stuck with me in my whole career. And there was one day I must have had a look and she goes, Will we will we go for a cup of tea? And I said, Yeah. And I said, you know, I'm really struggling because there is the when you're pregnant, you think, sure nothing will change. Everything be grand. You're so excited And you also think then when you have the child coming back, sure I'm the same. I was not the same. But yet I felt I should be the same. I felt that somehow now I wasn't operating at the level that I used to. I was determined to operate at the level that I used to. And sure, that that that's not the case. Like it things have to change. It's not less than or more than. It's just different. And Raf pulled me aside and said, What will be very important for you is defining. what you want. You have to define your values. What are the things that you hold dear that will help you make your decisions as you go forward And I I kind of thought, right, okay, I did it through the lens of when I'm eighty years old, what will I regret? So, you know, it had been in my head, will I will I do a master's just because everyone else had, and I thought again, this would qualify me. This would mean I was qualified for something. And I thought, when I'm eighty-year-old, will I regret not doing a master's? And I was like, absolutely not. No. So that went down the list of things that I was going to do. I thought about it and And these are the two values that have helped me through my career make decisions as to whether I took a job or whether I took a promotion. And the first thing was, To remain happily married. And I put happily in there because remaining married is very different to remaining happily married. There's an awful lot more work involved in being happily married, both from me and from him. If there is anything that I think is going to impact me being happily married, then I don't do it. I don't take that opportunity. I don't I don't take that job. And the second thing was to have a meaningful connection to my kids. And The reason I put that in is because when you have kids when they're small, you really struggle with, okay, well, i is it important that I change every nappy? You know, is is it important that I am there at every single point in the evening for bath time No, meaningful connection with your kids, number one, it changes as as they grow, right? But it it also it's dictated by what's important to them. They didn't care who changed Napy They did care when they were sick. I was the one they wanted. When they were having their moments, like the first thing was I was at a match, Mam, did you see? Or I remember the first blitz that my eldest ever did. I was late coming in because I had to change a nappy action. I was late coming across to the pitch And after the first game, he came over and he says, You were late. And I said, I was, So with those two things actually, because that's what everything boiled down to about what was important to me, I got offered a the most senior global role that I had worked very hard for. And it was after I'd had my third son, and it was finally I wasn't trying to get pregnant, pregnant, or recovering from being pregnant. And I got a phone call to say, This role is yours if you want it. But here's the thing, you will have to be able to travel internationally. Every six weeks. And this is something that will affect your life. Because at the time, my youngest was about 18 months. And we had a very busy house. There were a lot of doctors' appointments. There were a lot of school appointments. There was a lot going on. And she said, I'd I'd like you to think about it. And I said, Okay. And that's when we we sat down and we said, Right, okay. His first question was, Do you want to do the job? And I was like, I would love a crack. This job because this is the first time that I'm taking a job without thinking, but if I get pregnant now, what way will that work? And if I was on maternity leave, and like I didn't have any of that in my head. I was like, I am practically a man for the first time. This this is the first time this has ever happened in my career, right? I said, second, I'm nervous about it. I I'm not sure I can do it, which is exactly the kind of job you should be taking, right? If you think you can do it, you should be aiming higher. And I really wanted to test myself. And then I said, but I said, we can't work this international travel because he worked shift work. And I said, As sure as eggs are eggs, the travel is gonna fall on the week you're working on shift and not on the week that you're not. And that's just not going to work. And that's where He he kinda came and said, But I have parental leave, which is unpaid leave. you can take that up to the child as 8 I haven't taken any of that. Why don't I see if that's an option? And all of a sudden my God, this this could be possible. So that was the first time, but it wasn't the last time that we then adjusted based on the advice that I've been given around what are your values and anchor to that. We adjusted the kind of jobs I would and I would not take, the the company changes I would make, whether I would take on more roles. And we we have that conversation every time something like that comes up Now, I will say there are people that are going to be listened to this saying, well, in this industry, that just wouldn't be allowed, I was lucky in the industry I worked in. I was lucky in the companies I worked for. I also had a boss very early in my career who, after my first son, I came back and within three months I was promoted based on the work I had done leading up to my maternity leave. it wasn't forgotten work, which which can happen. It's almost like the slate is clear. When you come back from maternity leave and you're starting from scratch again. Whereas she was very fair to me. I was very lucky that my career didn't stall and have to start again I wouldn't like to create the impression that this was all in my control either, But the bits that I did control, that's what I can speak about. And that was the decisions we made. to make it work at home. And the conversation was always, well, look, if the shoe was on the other foot, this is this is what you would be doing. and this is the trajectory your career is on. This works out better for us as a as a family. And that's why I could facilitate it. But now when I think back through those years, I mean everything was scheduled to within an inch of our lives. Right. so that no child would get left somewhere without being picked up. at one stage where we were meeting at a hotel on the on the M1 I'd have a meeting that I needed to do. It was running late. Fine, I will now leave. You're on your way down, I'll meet you halfway. Do a handover has everyone been fed, who still needs to be washed on in the car park, kids in the back of the car, swap over the car and and off we go home and then I would do bedtime and lunch. And you know, there's there's all that. I didn't see my friends for a lot of that time because that's what gets pulled down the list. I stopped, practically stopped playing cricket. So I didn't see the inside of a gym. You have to de-prioritize something. You, you know, this notion of you can have it all, you can't. Something has to give, but you have to decide what you want and then what you're willing to to deprioritize. And then the good news is it changes. It's a season, And then they get they get older. With that comes different needs. So how you connect with them is now different. But it's advice that I have held close and it has served me really well. It's constant work. You are the one that also I wouldn't say pays a price, but there is a cost that you are paying for this. and that's the cost I was I was willing to pay. Because i I knew in me I'm built to compete. I'm built to put my hand up. I'm built to want to learn more and do more and and just see if I can. But that's what makes me smile. That's what makes me who I am. Sounds a joy, Laura. tell us all now the your CEO. What what does a CEO do? a CEO is responsible for driving the business forward, building a strategy, which means that your customers are taken care of and you also acquire new business so that you are moving the business in the right direction. The industry that I've have worked in and work in currently is around payments. There's a lot of regulation, So a CEO carries a huge burden of responsibility in terms of making sure that There is best practice within an organization because it's so heavily regulated in terms of doing right by customers, keeping bad actors out. It's not trivial. it comes with personal liability, as do a lot of the other key roles in a business, like your COO, your CFO. Every role you go into, regardless of your title, you're trying to make that job better than when it was done before. I also try and stretch every role that I've gone into. So we I was hiring a lot during huge periods of growth for certain companies. And people would come in and say, Well, well, when can I get promoted? And when when am I moving to my next job? And my advice was always. Be the best at doing what you're doing. Then look to see how you can stretch that. And that's when you get noticed. But you first of all have to do what you were hired to do and do it well. I found that when I got known as somebody that was good at what I was doing, I was asked then to do other pieces of work. Other more interesting pieces where you'd get a chance to show what you could do there, then you can go into an interview and you've actually got examples So you're the whole time building a a portfolio of examples that demonstrate what you're capable of. Instead of I would hypothetical questions about, well, if I got this job, I would do this and I would do that. It's like, well, no, in the past, in this situation, what I've done this, this, and this. Titles can sometimes be misleading. They can also be big, shiny things that people are attracted to. It's not really important. It's about what you do when you're there and what you get known for. What's your reputation? And those attributes and characteristics that you've mentioned pretty much throughout the whole of the podcast. It doesn't sound like that they've been picked up at school or with one subject or doing a degree or one particular job. No, this was through part-time jobs, learning from people that are in those jobs through sport, you know, having a bad captain, having a bad coach, then having a good captain, having a good coach, and understanding and watching and going, my God, see the way they handle that. And look also, Eoin making every mistake there is to make along the way, right? You know, as the eldest of six children. I had a particular style of how things could be done and that it's my way or the highway because that's your natural state. And then you go into work and y you can't go on like that. Like you have to actually you have to listen to what people are saying. You have to understand other people's point of view. You don't know it all. You have to ask questions. You have to I you know, any of the more senior roles I've done. It's funny how you completely go back to basics. I would say, okay, who actually does that job? I'd spend the day with my headset on, listening to them, answer calls to figure out what's happening with the customers and say, Listen, I don't understand anything about this. Would you mind if I sit beside you and listen to what you're doing? And can I ask you questions And I say, what absolutely drives customers nuts and what drives you nuts while you're trying to do your best for customers? And you get a list of things and you know, you'd you'd walk and go, Right, okay, that's my job. My job is to make this better for for them. I never got taught that in college. You know, maybe it's because I didn't do science and I didn't do business. I don't know. But I learned through the part on jobs that I had. And dealing with people through sport, that your ability to learn from people was the single biggest contributor to my ability to do my job. I would go with whoever was doing the job and ask them what what they needed, what did our customers need? They would listen to them 10 hours a day on a shift. They knew the answers. I I didn't. But it was my job to find out what was important. And then to build a strategy around that and to, you know, move things out of their way so they could do their job better, No course I ever did, and I did a lot of courses, like there was a lot of jobs I was bored in, and I was like, okay, maybe I'll do another night course. And I'd, you know, at one stage I took up accounting because I thought that was a gap that would qualify me for something. Could I do it? Yes. Got the diploma, Great. it was a busy fool. looking for ways to qualify me for something. And actually I probably had everything I needed. I just needed to go deeper on it and I needed to trust it in order to move forward. What's your favorite part of your current role? What's the bit that makes you smile? I love building teams. I I love when people are proud of working for the company it's the ultimate reward when you've done something to the point where people feel like they belong, people feel like they can build a career, people feel that you trust them. That's not something you can tell somebody. They they have to feel it. when you're creating a culture, you're you're just extending an invite to somebody and you're saying, here's what I'm gonna try and build. I would love you to be part of doing that. And here's the role I see you playing in that. But it's com completely up to yourself if you want to be part of that. But here's what I'm going to be doing over here. And when people will join you on that, that makes my heart sing. And I've been part of that in two of the companies that I worked in. And I can honestly say it was the time when I could actually say, my God, this is what it is to love your job. building a culture where people felt like they belonged and there was trust. We worked hard, And people performed and there's tough conversations in all of that as well. So don't get me wrong, part of performing well is also having conversations around performance to go, is this the right fit for you? Is this bringing out the best in you? Because it's not for everybody. That's why the culture is an invitation. This culture mightn't actually be for you. You mightn't feel comfortable in this. But building teams and the design of a process makes me smile. I love doing that. What a lovely way to finish. Laura, your host. I hope everybody has learnt as much as I have, of all ages. There's so many lessons in there. So thank you very much. And it's been a joy to listen to your career to date. Thanks, Million. Appreciate it.