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Speaker 1: This is Dan Kaplis, and welcome to today's online podcast edition of The Dan Kaplis Show. Please be sure to give us a five-star rating, if you'd be so kind, and to subscribe, download, and listen to the show every single day on your favorite podcast platform. Who could throw the last bomb so the other guy wouldn't have a chance to respond? And so yesterday, my good friend Dick Wadham's in studio, and, uh, And then right at the end of the show, right at the end of the show, Dick launches this one. Can the GOP come back in Colorado, and do you think it will?
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Speaker 2: I think it can. Whether it will or not will depend on whether– I'll say it bluntly, Dan. If the mega people continue the way they are, no, we will never come back. But if we come back, if we get back to winning elections like we used to, yes.
00:00:50
Speaker 1: We can. That's quite a way to end the show. Then it's the end of the show. I get no chance to respond to that. So I've got my friend of all these many years, Dick Wadham, saying, well, yeah, we can win again if you get rid of all the MAGA people. And I'm like, what? That's crazy. But I have no time to respond. Dick, that was.
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Speaker 1: In an ingenious kind of way, well played, because that's what Craig and I used to do to each other, right? So then the other guy has no chance to respond until the next day. But thank you for coming back. You bet. Because I wanted to continue that conversation. I know you to be a very serious guy, and you would not have said that unless you meant it. And I disagree with it personally, but it's a big thing to say. So let's have the convo.
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Speaker 4: Well, Dan, first of all, I did not say getting rid of the mega people.
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Speaker 1: I embellished. Yes.
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Speaker 2: I hate to say it, but you did. But I will say this, that that it will depend on how. The mega stolen election conspiracy crowd behaves after this election is over with. Let me start off by saying this Republican Party in Colorado has some outstanding leadership in the legislature with Jarvis Caldwell, our minority leader, with Cleve Simpson, our Senate minority leader, with Senator Barbara Kirkmeyer. and Rick Taggart, who are the Republicans on the Joint Budget Committee. I could go through a whole bunch of other Republican legislators who are outstanding. Ty Winter down in southern Colorado, John Carson in Douglas County. We have a bunch of legislators who are excellent. And then we've got these three new congressmen elected in 2024, Jeff Hurd, Jeff Crank, and Gabe Evans, all of whom are now fighting for their their seats, especially gay, but even the third and the fifth had now become competitive. And I'll say this about Lauren Boebert. She had the guts to take on the president on the Epstein issue, and she also confronted the president on his short-sighted veto of the York Valley conduit and also his rejection of disaster status. for several communities who experienced fires and floods. So the nucleus is there with some outstanding Republicans who are in office now. And also this about the new state chair. You haven't heard much from Craig Steiner. Craig got elected after Brittlehorn resigned a few months ago. And Craig has restored some calm in the Republican Party. I mean, all that stuff that went on With Dave Williams, I'm going to talk about that more. And then under Britta Horne, there's a lot of chaos, and you can debate whether that was Britta's fault or not, but the bottom line is she resigned. Craig Steiner took over. Let me tell you one thing, Dan, that has not gotten a lot of attention, but it is very significant about the credibility of the Colorado Republican Party. If you remember in 2024— The National Republican Congressional Committee, the NRCC, does a lot to fund the competitive congressional races across the country. They spent a bunch of money in the 8th Congressional District for Gabe Evans and in the 3rd.
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Speaker 4: Congressional District for Jeff Hearn.
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Speaker 2: That money that they spent in Colorado would normally go through the Colorado Republican Party.
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Speaker 4: It did not.
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Speaker 2: Because the NRCC did not trust Dave Williams, who was the chairman at that time, to spend the money where it was supposed to be spent. Hundreds of thousands of dollars went to the Arizona Republican Party.
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Speaker 4: They didn't spend it.
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Speaker 2: They're the ones who spent money on behalf of Evans and Heard in Colorado because they didn't trust the Colorado Republican Party because it was.
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Speaker 4: Being led by Dave Williams.
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Speaker 2: 2026, the NRCC is routing money through the Colorado Republican Party under Craig Steiner. That shows you right there that some credibility has been restored to the state party. Now, I don't know if Craig Steiner is going to run again or not in March. He would have to run for a full term in March. He's not his only chairman through that time. when a new chairman is elected. But this is the challenge of Republicans when we get done with this election on November 3rd, because that's less than a month away.
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Speaker 4: We're about there.
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Speaker 2: And focus, immediate attention will be on electing a new state chairman. But more importantly, and much more importantly, is the fact, and this is where I have strong disagreement with the the mega stolen election conspiracists, because they are. They are obsessed with this notion. The 2020 election was stolen by Donald Trump nationally, and even here in Colorado, the elections are corrupt, and Democrats win elections because of the Colorado system. And they also stand behind somebody like Tina Peters, who I don't have to go any further on that, but they defend Tina Peters and her despicable behavior that she did and was convicted of.
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Speaker 4: And then Jared Polis, of course, commuted or sentenced.
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Speaker 2: But in March, when there's a new chairman, secretary, and vice chairman elected for the Colorado Republican Party by about the 400 members of the Colorado Republican State Central Committee, they will immediately also take up, whether it's that day when they elect a new chairman or in a subsequent state central committee meeting, there will be another attempt, there's already a lot of talk about it, to opt out of the 2028 Republican primary.
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Speaker 4: Now, this is perfectly legal.
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Speaker 2: In 2016, when the initiative was passed that granted unaffiliated voters the ability to vote in either the Democrat or the Republican primary, not both, there was a provision in there that a state party could opt out of the primary if 75% of the state central committee said to opt out. Now, the MAGA people went to court, and frankly, they won a substantial victory. The court said 75% is too high of a threshold. Now, what the court didn't say is what the threshold should be. So presumably, and it's a little murky to me what happens now, but under any— Some lower threshold is going to be enacted by the state central committee to opt out. It could be 50% plus one for all I know.
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Speaker 4: I don't know.
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Speaker 2: But I think there is a real possibility that that the Colorado Republican Party, through the State Central Committee, Dan, will actually opt out and cancel the 2028 primary. I think that is a real possibility. Let me walk through why, and that would be devastating to the party, whatever chance we have to win some elections in 2028.
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Speaker 4: What that would mean is.
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Speaker 2: 2 million unaffiliated voters would not be able to vote in the Republican primary. But more importantly, right now, these are the numbers right now as of October 1st on affiliation. There are just over 2 million unaffiliated. There are 994,000 Democrats, 888,000 Republicans. That's as of October 1st. Those numbers won't shift a lot by the time we get to March. If they opt out, of the primary. That means 2 million unaffiliated voters will not have the opportunity to vote in a Republican primary. They will only get the Democratic ballot in the mail in June of 2028. Now, what message does that send 2 million unaffiliated voters? And many of them will not be aware of what's going on. They will contact their county clerk's office, and they say.
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Speaker 4: Wait a minute, wait a minute.
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Speaker 2: I just got a Democratic ballot, a primary ballot, but I want to vote in the Republican primary. Why don't you send me that? And the county clerk or the election official will have to say, well, that is because the Colorado Republican Party decided to cancel the Republican primary. There is no Republican primary. You can only vote in the Democratic primary. 2 million in affiliates. Now, 888,000 Republicans will also be denied.
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Speaker 4: Voting in a Republican primary.
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Speaker 2: The only way they can participate in the Republican nomination process is to go to the precinct caucus and then go through the county assemblies to the state assembly.
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Speaker 4: Dan, that is a very small number. It's just a few.
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Speaker 1: The nominees for the U.S. Senate would be selected at the convention.
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Speaker 2: At the state assembly. At the state assembly. Every candidate for every office from U.S. senator down to county commissioner would be selected at the assemblies. And there would be no primary. Now, let me say, now, the question could be posed to me, well, what's wrong with that?
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Speaker 4: I mean, everybody.
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Speaker 1: Can we pick that up after the break? Sure, sure. And, Dick, one question folks may have before we hit this break.
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
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Speaker 1: And I do want to come back and talk about your premise that, if I understand it correctly, for the Republicans to win again, MAGA has to act differently? Yes. Would those be more accurate?
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Speaker 2: Yes. I voted for Donald Trump two out of three times I did not vote for him the last time I could not handle what he did on January 6th I support the big beautiful bill I support his deregulation agenda I support his foreign policy although I think this Iran thing has been not handled well by his administration. I support a great deal of the, of the, uh, of the Trump agenda, but the, but the, the, the trouble with, and I, and I use the term mega Dan because they have become obsessed with stolen elections at the expense of other issues. They, they, they, they, they hold Tina Peters up as some kind of a heroine, uh, of their, of their effort. They, they, they engage in this, um, uh, of this, um, trying to remove from the party anybody they don't think is loyal enough to Donald Trump.
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Speaker 4: That goes on all the time. Dave Williams especially did that.
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Speaker 1: And we'll come back. Dick Wadhams with us. And we're having this broader conversation about, OK, what does the GOP have to do to win again? And the definition and role of MAGA in this success to come, which I think is absolutely essential. You're on The Dan Kaplan Show.
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Speaker 4: And now, back to the Dan Kaplan Show podcast.
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Speaker 1: He come back in colorado and do you think it will.
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Speaker 2: I think if i think it can whether it will or not will depend on whether um um i'll say it bluntly dan if the mega people continue the way they are no we will never come back.
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Speaker 1: Dick wadham's kind of that was at the end of yesterday's show so i invited dick back so we could continue that conversation because i i think we disagree about it about this but but dick took the first segment and laid out in more depth his thoughts on this and It included a lot of optimism about what's happening in the Colorado GOP right now, so you can get that off the podcast. So, Dick, just continuing the conversation, it sounds like your definition of MAGA is more— Those supporters of the president who prioritize or push the argument that the election was stolen in 2020. Yes. And in connection with that, that Tina Peters is a hero, right?
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Speaker 2: Yes.
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Speaker 1: That's kind of your MAGA definition because you point out you voted for Trump two out of three times.
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Speaker 4: Okay. And commensurate with that, Dan, is the fact that they absolutely are.
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Speaker 2: are obsessed with canceling the 2028 Republican primary. Thank you for adding that. It's a two-pronged thing. Stolen elections, canceling the primary.
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Speaker 1: Okay. And then I don't mean to sound like a lawyer here. I'm just truly curious about what's going on out there because you're much more in touch. Is there a significant group who wants to cancel the primary who you would not consider to normally be kind of MAGA?
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Speaker 2: No.
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Speaker 1: Okay.
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Speaker 3: No.
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Speaker 1: Okay. And do you think right now the odds are pretty good the primary will be canceled?
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Speaker 2: I think there's a strong possibility of it. We won't know who makes up the Colorado Republican State Central Committee until March because to get into the weeds, and I think this is important— The State Central Committee is made up of elected officials, Congress, State Legislature, State Board of Education, District Attorneys, CU Regents, and then it's also made up of the Chairman, Vice Chairman, and Secretary of every county party. There are 64 counties, so those three... The big counties get a bonus vote for every 10,000 votes cast in this election for Victor Marx. In 2028, after that election, it will be based on the presidential vote.
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Speaker 4: By the way, this is state law. This is not a party decision.
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Speaker 1: Gotcha. My premise on all this, Dick, and I know we may agree on a lot of this, but my premise is The GOP simply can't win without MAGA. And the only way the GOP is going to win is if it finds a way and if the individual candidates find a way to unite MAGA. And what would you call non-MAGA? What do you call? I don't know.
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Speaker 2: They like to talk about rhinos and establishment. I don't know what that is. Dan, it's really.
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Speaker 2: It's really the problem is the stolen election conspiracies because that's all they talk about, and they look like nuts to people. I will tell you, unaffiliated voters don't like to hear about the stolen elections.
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Speaker 4: They just don't.
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Speaker 1: Okay. So anyway, in terms of my premise, I think we agree. And by the way, I'm going to throw some praise in here that may sound like kissing up, but it's not kissing up if it's true. One of the reasons I believe the GOP cannot win without MAGA is not just a numbers game.
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Speaker 4: It's an energy game. I agree with you.
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Speaker 2: I'm not saying— when you describe me wanting to get rid— that is not— what I want them to do is to acknowledge the political realities in Colorado, that we can't spend any time on stolen elections.
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Speaker 4: And we cannot cancel the 2028 primary.
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Speaker 1: I hear you. And I want to zero in on those particular issues. And I know you told me you have to leave at 5, so we'll cover this before you go. But just broadly, I just want people to know my honest view, and that is that Not only is it just a numbers thing, cannot win without MAGA. Not only is it just an energy thing that you cannot win because disproportionately MAGA people work hard and they are boots on the ground and they're out there trying to win.
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Speaker 4: Totally agree with you.
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Speaker 1: Beyond that, and I think you'll agree with this too, a lot of the most impressive people I've met in the Republican Party are MAGA people. A lot of the most impressive people I've met in the Republican Party are establishment people. And so it really is going to take somebody who can make that into a Kit Kat, right, for this to work, the chocolate and peanut butter combo.
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Speaker 2: Listen, Dan, I have no trouble with somebody being loyal to President Trump. As I said, most of his agenda I totally agree with. The question is, are they going to continue the suicidal– efforts to.
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Speaker 4: Talk about stolen elections or to cancel the primary.
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Speaker 1: But just, Dick, I think you would agree with also that if somebody sincerely believes that that election was stolen, that is something that's going to remain a very big deal to them because it would be so wrong for that to happen. And all I'm saying is, I think there are a lot of people who just, they look at the evidence and they have a sincere conviction not based on just only on what President Trump is saying, but his sincere conviction that the election was stolen. And I have not reached that conclusion, as you know, because I haven't seen the proof of it. But I think you have a lot of people who look at how things unfolded on that election night and then at the Democrats' behavior afterwards, where obviously, right, if they could have, they would have perverted the legal system to jail Trump so he did not beat them in 24. And people who would do that You know, the logic goes would steal an election. So all I'm saying is I have not concluded it was stolen, but I think there are a lot of smart people who have and just truly believe that.
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Speaker 2: And by the way, Dan, I wrote I was still writing for the Denver Post in that post 2020 election. And I wrote columns defending Trump against what I thought were unfair.
00:17:33
Speaker 4: Attempts to impeach him after the 2020 election.
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Speaker 1: You did.
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Speaker 4: I mean, I did.
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Speaker 2: And so it's not like I threw in with because I think that was wrong. Those impeachment efforts were wrong. That Russia, Russia, Russia thing was a fraud and fake. And so I defended him on that. So I'm sure that will not be acknowledged by those who are my detractors, but I did.
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Speaker 1: Well, let's come back. I want to go to some texts and calls, but I do want to dive into one thing with you again, not to be in the weeds, but I do agree this is going to be a very big deal whether the GOP decides to opt out of the primary. Yes. And I do agree with you that it will be devastating to GOP chances in 28 if it opts out of the primary.
00:18:15
Speaker 2: Yes.
00:18:16
Speaker 1: I know a lot of people listening disagree with that, but I want to explain why when we come back and then talk about the broader issue. What is the path to victory? You're on the Dan Kaplan Show.
00:18:33
Speaker 3: Latest election-related blunder does not appear to be the fault of Democratic Secretary of State Jenna Griswold, which is a refreshing change, but it continues the discouraging pattern of own goals that are cheered by conspiracy theorists and undermine faith in our elections. Putting the front-range passenger rail vote on 800,000 incorrect ballots is not a small oversight.
00:18:57
Speaker 1: The gold standard. Holy cow.
00:19:01
Speaker 2: Well, that was the responsibility of the There's idiots on that Coco.
00:19:08
Speaker 1: Train. Shouldn't Griswold be overseeing all this?
00:19:11
Speaker 4: Yes.
00:19:12
Speaker 2: I don't totally absolve her because if she had a competent office, they would be fly-specking the ballots to make sure these things are on correctly. Now, I will tell you that I have a lot of confidence in the county clerks to clean this up.
00:19:26
Speaker 4: And to get it taken care of.
00:19:28
Speaker 2: But no, I mean, she wasn't directly responsible, but kind of indirectly, she didn't take in. And once again, Dan, all she wants to do is to go on MS Now or whatever it's called, the former MSNBC and trash Trump, which I find equally reprehensible on her.
00:19:50
Speaker 1: Behavior. Yeah, because she has single-handedly undermined confidence in Colorado elections with her hyper-partisanship and her incredible large-scale blunders.
00:20:03
Speaker 4: She has.
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Speaker 2: Now, the bottom line is that the 64 county clerks who are almost unanimously very competent and professional and conduct elections the right way, they're the ones who actually run the elections. And, of course, they were given the information from the cuckoo cocoa people about where the ballots should have that thing on, that.
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Speaker 1: Train on there. Right. 303-713-8255, D-A-N-5-7-7-3-9. Now, Dick Wadhams was kind enough to come back today because of a comment at the end of the show about the mega behavior needing to change for the GOP to win, and we've been flushing that out. And Dick and I disagree on that. Let's just say that. But then there are plenty of other things we agree on, which is a lot of positive things. lot of positive things happening in the GOP right now. Hopefully those survive this election cycle and a real opportunity to win as well beyond this, and obviously in these current ballot measures. But to sum it up for those who just joined us, you know, Dick, if I understand your position correctly, it's that Colorado Republicans, if they keep focusing on, you know, the Belief that the election in 2020 was stolen, slash Tina Peters being a hero, that that's going to undermine any chance to win. My belief, and I think you agree with this, is that the GOP cannot win without full-throated MAGA turnout, support, boots on the ground, et cetera, because MAGA is an enormous part. of the success of this party right now to the point it is succeeding. So that kind of summarizes it, I think.
00:21:46
Speaker 2: I agree.
00:21:47
Speaker 1: Okay. Next step. Dick has said that he's very, very concerned that early in 27, that you may have the GOP Central Committee, when it has its new membership, do away with the GOP primary, which means the GOP candidates would be selected at the assembly.
00:22:05
Speaker 2: Yes.
00:22:05
Speaker 1: And what I want to throw in there, because I think there are plenty of folks who maybe aren't familiar with this, that the problem is that if we decide that only Republicans should be involved in the GOP primary, and there's an awful lot of very good logic in that, here's the problem. Under this law, we don't have the option of just having a GOP primary. So if someone was to say to me or to you or any sane person, hey, should the GOP primary, you know... open primary, just voting as normal by folks, should that be limited to Republican voters? Well, I would say, heck yes, if we have that option, but we don't have this option under the law. The only way we can have a true primary that most people are used to where we can all just go out and vote is if it's also open unaffiliated. That's our only option. It's that or have the assembly select the candidate, right?
00:23:06
Speaker 4: That is correct, Dan.
00:23:07
Speaker 1: And to me, That's why under this law, it's so critical that we keep the primary because in 28, Democrats are going to have a barn burner of a primary. There's going to be such a massive fight over who their Senate nominee is for what is currently Michael Bennett's seat. And if all of a sudden all those voters, you know, and 28 being a presidential, if all of a sudden all those voters are only getting a Dem ballot, I think that just kneecaps the Republicans.
00:23:38
Speaker 3: Yes.
00:23:39
Speaker 1: So I just don't want anybody to think that I'm out there believing the best scenario is that only unaffiliated— pardon me, that the best scenario is that our primary includes both Republicans and unaffiliateds. But under this law, I think it is by far our best scenario.
00:23:58
Speaker 2: And Dan, back when the state was— Genuinely, a third, a third, a third. And it was like that for decades. A third Republican, third Democrat, third unaffiliated. The numbers would kind of go up or down, but it would settle down into those three third situations. But about 10 years ago, with this influx of new people, about 800,000 people have moved to Colorado since 2011. They have totally changed the Colorado electorate. And now 51%, 2 million, are unaffiliateds. 994,000, 25% are Democrats, and we're third. 888,000 are Republicans, 22%.
00:24:38
Speaker 4: Back when we were a third, a third, a.
00:24:39
Speaker 2: Third, you could make a case where Republicans could do their own thing in a closed primary, and then we could go into the general election. But now we are definitely the third rated party in this state.
00:24:53
Speaker 4: And let me make one other point.
00:24:54
Speaker 2: Even during those days of a third, a third, a third, As you know, I ran a couple of campaigns during that time. Governor Bill Owens had a very intense primary in 1998. Senator Wayne Allard had a very intense primary in 1996. In fact, Allard was the big underdog to Attorney General Gail Norton, and frankly, Bill Owens, early polling show, he was an underdog to Senate President Tom Norton of Greeley. I ran both of those campaigns, and in conjunction with the candidates, obviously, with the notion that we have to win these primaries, but we need to win the primary in a way that can win a general election. And so we're going to run the primary in a way that attracts unaffiliated voters in the general election.
00:25:38
Speaker 4: And that was on my mind every time.
00:25:40
Speaker 2: Every time we did any kind of a public announcement informing our agenda, it's just an agenda that can win a Republican primary and win a general election. And that's what we did right now with so many Republicans. And they think, let's run hard right. And the election was stolen and we do need to get rid of the primary. What they are doing is saying we do not want to be even considered Republicans. by the vast majority of unaffiliated elections. And that's the problem there. We need candidates who can see the bigger picture. And if they can't, then we will never be competitive again. And I will tell you, the common thread with Senator Bill Armstrong, who I worked for for nine years in Colorado and Washington, Senator Hank Brown, whose campaign I ran in 1990— Senator Wayne Howard, who won in 96 and 2002. Governor Bill Owens, the only Republican governor.
00:26:37
Speaker 4: In 50 years.
00:26:38
Speaker 2: And we won the closest gubernatorial election up until that time. In 1998, he was reelected in 02. and then Cory Gardner when he won in 2014. The common thread with all those Republican winners is that they understood the broad electorate. They wanted to do more than win a Republican primary. They wanted to win a general election. And, Dan, I'm telling you, there are some people in this Republican Party— who they don't give a damn about winning a general election. They want to just win the Republican nomination. Oh, that might be nice to win the general, but I'm going to be pure. The election was stolen. We're going to abolish the primary. And that's what I'm saying, is that if you want to win a general election in Colorado, and this goes back 50 years, not just in the last 10 or 15, you've got to see the election, the electorate for what it is.
00:27:28
Speaker 4: And we know what it is right now. Do you think there are.
00:27:32
Speaker 1: significant number of people who believe it's impossible for the Republicans to win these races statewide. And because of that, the focus then shifts to, hey, we have to be just absolutely 100 percent on all of these other beliefs with our candidates because they feel there is no real hope of winning statewide.
00:27:54
Speaker 4: I really don't know, Dan.
00:27:55
Speaker 2: I mean, I know that they place their definition of purity as much higher than winning. And listen, all those people I rattled off, Bill Armstrong was one of the most conservative members of the U.S.
00:28:08
Speaker 1: Senate.
00:28:09
Speaker 2: Hank Brown, every one of them were absolutely solid conservatives. So they didn't suddenly become liberal Republicans.
00:28:16
Speaker 4: No, no.
00:28:17
Speaker 1: And to your point in terms of running a primary the way that you suggested, the beauty of that is– you're not going to win a Republican primary unless you're true to core Republican principles.
00:28:28
Speaker 4: No doubt about it.
00:28:30
Speaker 1: So the ability to first, foundationally, stay true to those core Republican principles and then be able to appeal to the broader electorate, you know, that is what you need from a candidate, both in terms of really careful, creative thinking in terms of their ability to reach people and make the case. Yeah, that That's the only winning formula out there statewide.
00:28:56
Speaker 2: Now, let me point out, the day that Bill Owens announced his candidacy for governor in 1997, he laid out three agenda items. Cut taxes, reform education, improve transportation. We had detailed policy proposals behind every one of them. That was in December of 1997. On election day, 1998, what was Bill Owens talking about? Cutting taxes, improving transportation, and reforming education. My point being is that we didn't have some right-wing agenda in the primary and then dive to the middle. We had an agenda that could win a primary.
00:29:29
Speaker 4: Same thing with Wayne Allard. Same thing with Wayne Allard.
00:29:32
Speaker 1: And then you also had the credit and integrity that comes with that. Exactly. I don't think there's any doubt about the winning formula.
00:29:39
Speaker 4: No, I agree.
00:29:40
Speaker 2: I will tell you, I have had MAGA people tell me, first of all, they say Colorado was an easy Republican state in those days. Anybody could have won. And that approach is so outmoded and it's not relevant anymore.
00:29:56
Speaker 4: I've got news. That is the only way we will win again in Colorado.
00:30:00
Speaker 1: And it was.
00:30:01
Speaker 2: I mean, Dan, during that period of time, well, it was very hard to win an election in Colorado.
00:30:08
Speaker 4: Always has been.
00:30:10
Speaker 1: As proven by, I mean, Bill Owens, tremendous candidate, great governor. That was a very narrow victory over. What was her name again? Shetler.
00:30:18
Speaker 2: Gail Shetler, she was the lieutenant governor under Roy Romer, who was leaving office with 70% approval rating.
00:30:24
Speaker 4: And we beat her.
00:30:24
Speaker 1: And when we come back, I'll tell you about the question I asked Roy Romer on election night when I was anchoring KOA coverage that he still hates me for. You're on the Dan Kaplan Show.
00:30:38
Speaker 4: And now, back to the Dan Kaplan Show podcast.
00:30:41
Speaker 1: The show started today that he would need to leave it live for another commitment, but I appreciate you being here to kind of flush this out. And it rolls off of a comment Dick made at the end of the show yesterday at very end when I didn't have a chance to respond about MAGA and MAGA needing to change some things for the GOP to win in the future. And then we spent a lot of time in this show breaking it down. You can pull it off the podcast, but I think it's fair to say bottom line, and it's the way you started today's show, that there are plenty of good things happening in the Colorado GOP and that you do see opportunity coming down the road. And now we're just talking about the great battle of ideas and how to take full advantage of that. So 28, presidential and Senate seat.
00:31:28
Speaker 4: Yeah, the only statewide race is the Senate seat.
00:31:32
Speaker 1: Now, how do you think the presidential will affect the GOP chances in that Senate race?
00:31:39
Speaker 2: Well, I think it will affect it. We'll have a new nominee. Trump, of course, has been on the ballot three times. He lost to Hillary Clinton by four in 2016. He lost to Biden by 14 in 2020. He lost by 11 in 2024 to Harris. I think that Colorado could be in play in 2028. I really do, because the Democrats might be nominating AOC. They might be nominating some other far-left candidate. And so— I think if a strong candidate is nominated by the Republicans, I think that would be an asset to Republican candidates here in Colorado.
00:32:19
Speaker 1: Yeah. And at this point, I think it's fair to assume it'll be either J.D. or Marco.
00:32:24
Speaker 4: At this moment, I think that's right.
00:32:25
Speaker 1: And would either of those fit that criteria?
00:32:28
Speaker 4: Depending on what kind of.
00:32:29
Speaker 2: Campaigns they've run and what, and if they commit to Colorado, I mean, I think it could be.
00:32:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, sure. Yeah. Boy, I would have to think both would be really credible.
00:32:38
Speaker 2: Sure.
00:32:38
Speaker 1: Yeah. You know, I've always been a Marco Rubio fan. That's no knock on JD Vance, but always been a Rubio fan. And I think he'd probably have a bigger reach. Yeah.
00:32:47
Speaker 2: Chance to, Oh, I've been a fan of Vance since he wrote Hillbilly Elegy, which is one of the greatest books, political books, if you want to describe it that way, that's ever been written.
00:32:57
Speaker 4: I mean, very, very, That was a brilliant book by J.D. Vance.
00:33:01
Speaker 1: How would you grade his work as VP?
00:33:03
Speaker 2: I think he— well, you know, when you're VP, you're number two, and you are basically subservient to the president. And I think he's been a loyal foot soldier and has tried to defend the president. In fact, I will say this about J.D. Vance. I think he has been more adept at defending the president's agenda than the president has at many times because I think the president goes off on these tangents. And I think that J.D. Vance is much more focused, much more disciplined. And frankly, we need a candidate like that in 2024. Yeah, Marco Rubio's been great about boosting the president's agenda. They both have been excellent representatives of the administration and of the president, yes.
00:33:44
Speaker 1: Think they'd be on the same ticket?
00:33:47
Speaker 4: I have no idea.
00:33:49
Speaker 1: No, and I'm thinking ahead in terms of Colorado, just in terms of Colorado and how it affects these different races. As you said, the only statewide will be that Senate race, but I think with a real chance to win it, because I think a really good chance the Dems nominate a socialist.
00:34:05
Speaker 2: I think that Senate seat will be up for grabs, Dan, if we don't cancel the primary.
00:34:10
Speaker 1: I mean, Milat Kiros, open-admitted socialist, campaigns repeatedly with Hassan Piker, so I have to assume she shares those horrific anti-American views and anti-Semitic views. She would have beat Hickenlooper easily, right?
00:34:25
Speaker 4: She might have, yeah.
00:34:26
Speaker 1: In this cycle, yeah. I mean, that unknown socialist almost beat her.
00:34:29
Speaker 2: And by the way, I think there's a chance that the city of Denver will elect a socialist mayor. And I think by the time we got to the 2028 election, that they will drive Denver and Colorado deeper.
00:34:42
Speaker 4: Into the hole.
00:34:45
Speaker 2: The electorate might finally say, we've had enough of this. They know that Colorado has been in decline since. for eight years since Democrats took total control of everything in Colorado. And I think, but they've still been voting Democratic. Maybe they won't.
00:34:58
Speaker 1: Well, you're the guy who's won races, not me. But what I'd say to that is I see it the opposite way that. The worse things get, the more people are going to vote for these far lefties and these socialists because the more dependent on government they're going to be. The people who don't like it are going to take off. They're going to move somewhere else.
00:35:15
Speaker 4: Well, that's a good point. A lot of people are. Thank you for being here, Dan.
00:35:18
Speaker 1: Appreciate it. Have a great weekend. When we come back, I can tell from the text the reaction to our conversation, which is great because it's constructive. The whole point is how do we win? How do we win all these great ideas? We have an obligation to go out and win with those. How do we do it? That and more ahead on the Dan Kaplan Show.
Speaker 1: This is Dan Kaplis, and welcome to today's online podcast edition of The Dan Kaplis Show. Please be sure to give us a five-star rating, if you'd be so kind, and to subscribe, download, and listen to the show every single day on your favorite podcast platform. Who could throw the last bomb so the other guy wouldn't have a chance to respond? And so yesterday, my good friend Dick Wadham's in studio, and, uh, And then right at the end of the show, right at the end of the show, Dick launches this one. Can the GOP come back in Colorado, and do you think it will?
00:00:36
Speaker 2: I think it can. Whether it will or not will depend on whether– I'll say it bluntly, Dan. If the mega people continue the way they are, no, we will never come back. But if we come back, if we get back to winning elections like we used to, yes.
00:00:50
Speaker 1: We can. That's quite a way to end the show. Then it's the end of the show. I get no chance to respond to that. So I've got my friend of all these many years, Dick Wadham, saying, well, yeah, we can win again if you get rid of all the MAGA people. And I'm like, what? That's crazy. But I have no time to respond. Dick, that was.
00:01:10
Speaker 1: In an ingenious kind of way, well played, because that's what Craig and I used to do to each other, right? So then the other guy has no chance to respond until the next day. But thank you for coming back. You bet. Because I wanted to continue that conversation. I know you to be a very serious guy, and you would not have said that unless you meant it. And I disagree with it personally, but it's a big thing to say. So let's have the convo.
00:01:34
Speaker 4: Well, Dan, first of all, I did not say getting rid of the mega people.
00:01:37
Speaker 1: I embellished. Yes.
00:01:38
Speaker 2: I hate to say it, but you did. But I will say this, that that it will depend on how. The mega stolen election conspiracy crowd behaves after this election is over with. Let me start off by saying this Republican Party in Colorado has some outstanding leadership in the legislature with Jarvis Caldwell, our minority leader, with Cleve Simpson, our Senate minority leader, with Senator Barbara Kirkmeyer. and Rick Taggart, who are the Republicans on the Joint Budget Committee. I could go through a whole bunch of other Republican legislators who are outstanding. Ty Winter down in southern Colorado, John Carson in Douglas County. We have a bunch of legislators who are excellent. And then we've got these three new congressmen elected in 2024, Jeff Hurd, Jeff Crank, and Gabe Evans, all of whom are now fighting for their their seats, especially gay, but even the third and the fifth had now become competitive. And I'll say this about Lauren Boebert. She had the guts to take on the president on the Epstein issue, and she also confronted the president on his short-sighted veto of the York Valley conduit and also his rejection of disaster status. for several communities who experienced fires and floods. So the nucleus is there with some outstanding Republicans who are in office now. And also this about the new state chair. You haven't heard much from Craig Steiner. Craig got elected after Brittlehorn resigned a few months ago. And Craig has restored some calm in the Republican Party. I mean, all that stuff that went on With Dave Williams, I'm going to talk about that more. And then under Britta Horne, there's a lot of chaos, and you can debate whether that was Britta's fault or not, but the bottom line is she resigned. Craig Steiner took over. Let me tell you one thing, Dan, that has not gotten a lot of attention, but it is very significant about the credibility of the Colorado Republican Party. If you remember in 2024— The National Republican Congressional Committee, the NRCC, does a lot to fund the competitive congressional races across the country. They spent a bunch of money in the 8th Congressional District for Gabe Evans and in the 3rd.
00:03:58
Speaker 4: Congressional District for Jeff Hearn.
00:04:01
Speaker 2: That money that they spent in Colorado would normally go through the Colorado Republican Party.
00:04:06
Speaker 4: It did not.
00:04:07
Speaker 2: Because the NRCC did not trust Dave Williams, who was the chairman at that time, to spend the money where it was supposed to be spent. Hundreds of thousands of dollars went to the Arizona Republican Party.
00:04:19
Speaker 4: They didn't spend it.
00:04:20
Speaker 2: They're the ones who spent money on behalf of Evans and Heard in Colorado because they didn't trust the Colorado Republican Party because it was.
00:04:31
Speaker 4: Being led by Dave Williams.
00:04:32
Speaker 2: 2026, the NRCC is routing money through the Colorado Republican Party under Craig Steiner. That shows you right there that some credibility has been restored to the state party. Now, I don't know if Craig Steiner is going to run again or not in March. He would have to run for a full term in March. He's not his only chairman through that time. when a new chairman is elected. But this is the challenge of Republicans when we get done with this election on November 3rd, because that's less than a month away.
00:05:04
Speaker 4: We're about there.
00:05:06
Speaker 2: And focus, immediate attention will be on electing a new state chairman. But more importantly, and much more importantly, is the fact, and this is where I have strong disagreement with the the mega stolen election conspiracists, because they are. They are obsessed with this notion. The 2020 election was stolen by Donald Trump nationally, and even here in Colorado, the elections are corrupt, and Democrats win elections because of the Colorado system. And they also stand behind somebody like Tina Peters, who I don't have to go any further on that, but they defend Tina Peters and her despicable behavior that she did and was convicted of.
00:05:50
Speaker 4: And then Jared Polis, of course, commuted or sentenced.
00:05:53
Speaker 2: But in March, when there's a new chairman, secretary, and vice chairman elected for the Colorado Republican Party by about the 400 members of the Colorado Republican State Central Committee, they will immediately also take up, whether it's that day when they elect a new chairman or in a subsequent state central committee meeting, there will be another attempt, there's already a lot of talk about it, to opt out of the 2028 Republican primary.
00:06:20
Speaker 4: Now, this is perfectly legal.
00:06:22
Speaker 2: In 2016, when the initiative was passed that granted unaffiliated voters the ability to vote in either the Democrat or the Republican primary, not both, there was a provision in there that a state party could opt out of the primary if 75% of the state central committee said to opt out. Now, the MAGA people went to court, and frankly, they won a substantial victory. The court said 75% is too high of a threshold. Now, what the court didn't say is what the threshold should be. So presumably, and it's a little murky to me what happens now, but under any— Some lower threshold is going to be enacted by the state central committee to opt out. It could be 50% plus one for all I know.
00:07:18
Speaker 4: I don't know.
00:07:18
Speaker 2: But I think there is a real possibility that that the Colorado Republican Party, through the State Central Committee, Dan, will actually opt out and cancel the 2028 primary. I think that is a real possibility. Let me walk through why, and that would be devastating to the party, whatever chance we have to win some elections in 2028.
00:07:38
Speaker 4: What that would mean is.
00:07:39
Speaker 2: 2 million unaffiliated voters would not be able to vote in the Republican primary. But more importantly, right now, these are the numbers right now as of October 1st on affiliation. There are just over 2 million unaffiliated. There are 994,000 Democrats, 888,000 Republicans. That's as of October 1st. Those numbers won't shift a lot by the time we get to March. If they opt out, of the primary. That means 2 million unaffiliated voters will not have the opportunity to vote in a Republican primary. They will only get the Democratic ballot in the mail in June of 2028. Now, what message does that send 2 million unaffiliated voters? And many of them will not be aware of what's going on. They will contact their county clerk's office, and they say.
00:08:31
Speaker 4: Wait a minute, wait a minute.
00:08:32
Speaker 2: I just got a Democratic ballot, a primary ballot, but I want to vote in the Republican primary. Why don't you send me that? And the county clerk or the election official will have to say, well, that is because the Colorado Republican Party decided to cancel the Republican primary. There is no Republican primary. You can only vote in the Democratic primary. 2 million in affiliates. Now, 888,000 Republicans will also be denied.
00:09:01
Speaker 4: Voting in a Republican primary.
00:09:03
Speaker 2: The only way they can participate in the Republican nomination process is to go to the precinct caucus and then go through the county assemblies to the state assembly.
00:09:11
Speaker 4: Dan, that is a very small number. It's just a few.
00:09:13
Speaker 1: The nominees for the U.S. Senate would be selected at the convention.
00:09:16
Speaker 2: At the state assembly. At the state assembly. Every candidate for every office from U.S. senator down to county commissioner would be selected at the assemblies. And there would be no primary. Now, let me say, now, the question could be posed to me, well, what's wrong with that?
00:09:33
Speaker 4: I mean, everybody.
00:09:35
Speaker 1: Can we pick that up after the break? Sure, sure. And, Dick, one question folks may have before we hit this break.
00:09:40
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:09:40
Speaker 1: And I do want to come back and talk about your premise that, if I understand it correctly, for the Republicans to win again, MAGA has to act differently? Yes. Would those be more accurate?
00:09:52
Speaker 2: Yes. I voted for Donald Trump two out of three times I did not vote for him the last time I could not handle what he did on January 6th I support the big beautiful bill I support his deregulation agenda I support his foreign policy although I think this Iran thing has been not handled well by his administration. I support a great deal of the, of the, uh, of the Trump agenda, but the, but the, the, the trouble with, and I, and I use the term mega Dan because they have become obsessed with stolen elections at the expense of other issues. They, they, they, they, they hold Tina Peters up as some kind of a heroine, uh, of their, of their effort. They, they, they engage in this, um, uh, of this, um, trying to remove from the party anybody they don't think is loyal enough to Donald Trump.
00:10:49
Speaker 4: That goes on all the time. Dave Williams especially did that.
00:10:52
Speaker 1: And we'll come back. Dick Wadhams with us. And we're having this broader conversation about, OK, what does the GOP have to do to win again? And the definition and role of MAGA in this success to come, which I think is absolutely essential. You're on The Dan Kaplan Show.
00:11:11
Speaker 4: And now, back to the Dan Kaplan Show podcast.
00:11:15
Speaker 1: He come back in colorado and do you think it will.
00:11:18
Speaker 2: I think if i think it can whether it will or not will depend on whether um um i'll say it bluntly dan if the mega people continue the way they are no we will never come back.
00:11:29
Speaker 1: Dick wadham's kind of that was at the end of yesterday's show so i invited dick back so we could continue that conversation because i i think we disagree about it about this but but dick took the first segment and laid out in more depth his thoughts on this and It included a lot of optimism about what's happening in the Colorado GOP right now, so you can get that off the podcast. So, Dick, just continuing the conversation, it sounds like your definition of MAGA is more— Those supporters of the president who prioritize or push the argument that the election was stolen in 2020. Yes. And in connection with that, that Tina Peters is a hero, right?
00:12:11
Speaker 2: Yes.
00:12:12
Speaker 1: That's kind of your MAGA definition because you point out you voted for Trump two out of three times.
00:12:16
Speaker 4: Okay. And commensurate with that, Dan, is the fact that they absolutely are.
00:12:28
Speaker 2: are obsessed with canceling the 2028 Republican primary. Thank you for adding that. It's a two-pronged thing. Stolen elections, canceling the primary.
00:12:39
Speaker 1: Okay. And then I don't mean to sound like a lawyer here. I'm just truly curious about what's going on out there because you're much more in touch. Is there a significant group who wants to cancel the primary who you would not consider to normally be kind of MAGA?
00:12:55
Speaker 2: No.
00:12:56
Speaker 1: Okay.
00:12:56
Speaker 3: No.
00:12:57
Speaker 1: Okay. And do you think right now the odds are pretty good the primary will be canceled?
00:13:01
Speaker 2: I think there's a strong possibility of it. We won't know who makes up the Colorado Republican State Central Committee until March because to get into the weeds, and I think this is important— The State Central Committee is made up of elected officials, Congress, State Legislature, State Board of Education, District Attorneys, CU Regents, and then it's also made up of the Chairman, Vice Chairman, and Secretary of every county party. There are 64 counties, so those three... The big counties get a bonus vote for every 10,000 votes cast in this election for Victor Marx. In 2028, after that election, it will be based on the presidential vote.
00:13:51
Speaker 4: By the way, this is state law. This is not a party decision.
00:13:56
Speaker 1: Gotcha. My premise on all this, Dick, and I know we may agree on a lot of this, but my premise is The GOP simply can't win without MAGA. And the only way the GOP is going to win is if it finds a way and if the individual candidates find a way to unite MAGA. And what would you call non-MAGA? What do you call? I don't know.
00:14:17
Speaker 2: They like to talk about rhinos and establishment. I don't know what that is. Dan, it's really.
00:14:27
Speaker 2: It's really the problem is the stolen election conspiracies because that's all they talk about, and they look like nuts to people. I will tell you, unaffiliated voters don't like to hear about the stolen elections.
00:14:38
Speaker 4: They just don't.
00:14:39
Speaker 1: Okay. So anyway, in terms of my premise, I think we agree. And by the way, I'm going to throw some praise in here that may sound like kissing up, but it's not kissing up if it's true. One of the reasons I believe the GOP cannot win without MAGA is not just a numbers game.
00:14:55
Speaker 4: It's an energy game. I agree with you.
00:14:57
Speaker 2: I'm not saying— when you describe me wanting to get rid— that is not— what I want them to do is to acknowledge the political realities in Colorado, that we can't spend any time on stolen elections.
00:15:10
Speaker 4: And we cannot cancel the 2028 primary.
00:15:13
Speaker 1: I hear you. And I want to zero in on those particular issues. And I know you told me you have to leave at 5, so we'll cover this before you go. But just broadly, I just want people to know my honest view, and that is that Not only is it just a numbers thing, cannot win without MAGA. Not only is it just an energy thing that you cannot win because disproportionately MAGA people work hard and they are boots on the ground and they're out there trying to win.
00:15:36
Speaker 4: Totally agree with you.
00:15:37
Speaker 1: Beyond that, and I think you'll agree with this too, a lot of the most impressive people I've met in the Republican Party are MAGA people. A lot of the most impressive people I've met in the Republican Party are establishment people. And so it really is going to take somebody who can make that into a Kit Kat, right, for this to work, the chocolate and peanut butter combo.
00:15:58
Speaker 2: Listen, Dan, I have no trouble with somebody being loyal to President Trump. As I said, most of his agenda I totally agree with. The question is, are they going to continue the suicidal– efforts to.
00:16:15
Speaker 4: Talk about stolen elections or to cancel the primary.
00:16:18
Speaker 1: But just, Dick, I think you would agree with also that if somebody sincerely believes that that election was stolen, that is something that's going to remain a very big deal to them because it would be so wrong for that to happen. And all I'm saying is, I think there are a lot of people who just, they look at the evidence and they have a sincere conviction not based on just only on what President Trump is saying, but his sincere conviction that the election was stolen. And I have not reached that conclusion, as you know, because I haven't seen the proof of it. But I think you have a lot of people who look at how things unfolded on that election night and then at the Democrats' behavior afterwards, where obviously, right, if they could have, they would have perverted the legal system to jail Trump so he did not beat them in 24. And people who would do that You know, the logic goes would steal an election. So all I'm saying is I have not concluded it was stolen, but I think there are a lot of smart people who have and just truly believe that.
00:17:22
Speaker 2: And by the way, Dan, I wrote I was still writing for the Denver Post in that post 2020 election. And I wrote columns defending Trump against what I thought were unfair.
00:17:33
Speaker 4: Attempts to impeach him after the 2020 election.
00:17:36
Speaker 1: You did.
00:17:36
Speaker 4: I mean, I did.
00:17:37
Speaker 2: And so it's not like I threw in with because I think that was wrong. Those impeachment efforts were wrong. That Russia, Russia, Russia thing was a fraud and fake. And so I defended him on that. So I'm sure that will not be acknowledged by those who are my detractors, but I did.
00:17:56
Speaker 1: Well, let's come back. I want to go to some texts and calls, but I do want to dive into one thing with you again, not to be in the weeds, but I do agree this is going to be a very big deal whether the GOP decides to opt out of the primary. Yes. And I do agree with you that it will be devastating to GOP chances in 28 if it opts out of the primary.
00:18:15
Speaker 2: Yes.
00:18:16
Speaker 1: I know a lot of people listening disagree with that, but I want to explain why when we come back and then talk about the broader issue. What is the path to victory? You're on the Dan Kaplan Show.
00:18:33
Speaker 3: Latest election-related blunder does not appear to be the fault of Democratic Secretary of State Jenna Griswold, which is a refreshing change, but it continues the discouraging pattern of own goals that are cheered by conspiracy theorists and undermine faith in our elections. Putting the front-range passenger rail vote on 800,000 incorrect ballots is not a small oversight.
00:18:57
Speaker 1: The gold standard. Holy cow.
00:19:01
Speaker 2: Well, that was the responsibility of the There's idiots on that Coco.
00:19:08
Speaker 1: Train. Shouldn't Griswold be overseeing all this?
00:19:11
Speaker 4: Yes.
00:19:12
Speaker 2: I don't totally absolve her because if she had a competent office, they would be fly-specking the ballots to make sure these things are on correctly. Now, I will tell you that I have a lot of confidence in the county clerks to clean this up.
00:19:26
Speaker 4: And to get it taken care of.
00:19:28
Speaker 2: But no, I mean, she wasn't directly responsible, but kind of indirectly, she didn't take in. And once again, Dan, all she wants to do is to go on MS Now or whatever it's called, the former MSNBC and trash Trump, which I find equally reprehensible on her.
00:19:50
Speaker 1: Behavior. Yeah, because she has single-handedly undermined confidence in Colorado elections with her hyper-partisanship and her incredible large-scale blunders.
00:20:03
Speaker 4: She has.
00:20:04
Speaker 2: Now, the bottom line is that the 64 county clerks who are almost unanimously very competent and professional and conduct elections the right way, they're the ones who actually run the elections. And, of course, they were given the information from the cuckoo cocoa people about where the ballots should have that thing on, that.
00:20:28
Speaker 1: Train on there. Right. 303-713-8255, D-A-N-5-7-7-3-9. Now, Dick Wadhams was kind enough to come back today because of a comment at the end of the show about the mega behavior needing to change for the GOP to win, and we've been flushing that out. And Dick and I disagree on that. Let's just say that. But then there are plenty of other things we agree on, which is a lot of positive things. lot of positive things happening in the GOP right now. Hopefully those survive this election cycle and a real opportunity to win as well beyond this, and obviously in these current ballot measures. But to sum it up for those who just joined us, you know, Dick, if I understand your position correctly, it's that Colorado Republicans, if they keep focusing on, you know, the Belief that the election in 2020 was stolen, slash Tina Peters being a hero, that that's going to undermine any chance to win. My belief, and I think you agree with this, is that the GOP cannot win without full-throated MAGA turnout, support, boots on the ground, et cetera, because MAGA is an enormous part. of the success of this party right now to the point it is succeeding. So that kind of summarizes it, I think.
00:21:46
Speaker 2: I agree.
00:21:47
Speaker 1: Okay. Next step. Dick has said that he's very, very concerned that early in 27, that you may have the GOP Central Committee, when it has its new membership, do away with the GOP primary, which means the GOP candidates would be selected at the assembly.
00:22:05
Speaker 2: Yes.
00:22:05
Speaker 1: And what I want to throw in there, because I think there are plenty of folks who maybe aren't familiar with this, that the problem is that if we decide that only Republicans should be involved in the GOP primary, and there's an awful lot of very good logic in that, here's the problem. Under this law, we don't have the option of just having a GOP primary. So if someone was to say to me or to you or any sane person, hey, should the GOP primary, you know... open primary, just voting as normal by folks, should that be limited to Republican voters? Well, I would say, heck yes, if we have that option, but we don't have this option under the law. The only way we can have a true primary that most people are used to where we can all just go out and vote is if it's also open unaffiliated. That's our only option. It's that or have the assembly select the candidate, right?
00:23:06
Speaker 4: That is correct, Dan.
00:23:07
Speaker 1: And to me, That's why under this law, it's so critical that we keep the primary because in 28, Democrats are going to have a barn burner of a primary. There's going to be such a massive fight over who their Senate nominee is for what is currently Michael Bennett's seat. And if all of a sudden all those voters, you know, and 28 being a presidential, if all of a sudden all those voters are only getting a Dem ballot, I think that just kneecaps the Republicans.
00:23:38
Speaker 3: Yes.
00:23:39
Speaker 1: So I just don't want anybody to think that I'm out there believing the best scenario is that only unaffiliated— pardon me, that the best scenario is that our primary includes both Republicans and unaffiliateds. But under this law, I think it is by far our best scenario.
00:23:58
Speaker 2: And Dan, back when the state was— Genuinely, a third, a third, a third. And it was like that for decades. A third Republican, third Democrat, third unaffiliated. The numbers would kind of go up or down, but it would settle down into those three third situations. But about 10 years ago, with this influx of new people, about 800,000 people have moved to Colorado since 2011. They have totally changed the Colorado electorate. And now 51%, 2 million, are unaffiliateds. 994,000, 25% are Democrats, and we're third. 888,000 are Republicans, 22%.
00:24:38
Speaker 4: Back when we were a third, a third, a.
00:24:39
Speaker 2: Third, you could make a case where Republicans could do their own thing in a closed primary, and then we could go into the general election. But now we are definitely the third rated party in this state.
00:24:53
Speaker 4: And let me make one other point.
00:24:54
Speaker 2: Even during those days of a third, a third, a third, As you know, I ran a couple of campaigns during that time. Governor Bill Owens had a very intense primary in 1998. Senator Wayne Allard had a very intense primary in 1996. In fact, Allard was the big underdog to Attorney General Gail Norton, and frankly, Bill Owens, early polling show, he was an underdog to Senate President Tom Norton of Greeley. I ran both of those campaigns, and in conjunction with the candidates, obviously, with the notion that we have to win these primaries, but we need to win the primary in a way that can win a general election. And so we're going to run the primary in a way that attracts unaffiliated voters in the general election.
00:25:38
Speaker 4: And that was on my mind every time.
00:25:40
Speaker 2: Every time we did any kind of a public announcement informing our agenda, it's just an agenda that can win a Republican primary and win a general election. And that's what we did right now with so many Republicans. And they think, let's run hard right. And the election was stolen and we do need to get rid of the primary. What they are doing is saying we do not want to be even considered Republicans. by the vast majority of unaffiliated elections. And that's the problem there. We need candidates who can see the bigger picture. And if they can't, then we will never be competitive again. And I will tell you, the common thread with Senator Bill Armstrong, who I worked for for nine years in Colorado and Washington, Senator Hank Brown, whose campaign I ran in 1990— Senator Wayne Howard, who won in 96 and 2002. Governor Bill Owens, the only Republican governor.
00:26:37
Speaker 4: In 50 years.
00:26:38
Speaker 2: And we won the closest gubernatorial election up until that time. In 1998, he was reelected in 02. and then Cory Gardner when he won in 2014. The common thread with all those Republican winners is that they understood the broad electorate. They wanted to do more than win a Republican primary. They wanted to win a general election. And, Dan, I'm telling you, there are some people in this Republican Party— who they don't give a damn about winning a general election. They want to just win the Republican nomination. Oh, that might be nice to win the general, but I'm going to be pure. The election was stolen. We're going to abolish the primary. And that's what I'm saying, is that if you want to win a general election in Colorado, and this goes back 50 years, not just in the last 10 or 15, you've got to see the election, the electorate for what it is.
00:27:28
Speaker 4: And we know what it is right now. Do you think there are.
00:27:32
Speaker 1: significant number of people who believe it's impossible for the Republicans to win these races statewide. And because of that, the focus then shifts to, hey, we have to be just absolutely 100 percent on all of these other beliefs with our candidates because they feel there is no real hope of winning statewide.
00:27:54
Speaker 4: I really don't know, Dan.
00:27:55
Speaker 2: I mean, I know that they place their definition of purity as much higher than winning. And listen, all those people I rattled off, Bill Armstrong was one of the most conservative members of the U.S.
00:28:08
Speaker 1: Senate.
00:28:09
Speaker 2: Hank Brown, every one of them were absolutely solid conservatives. So they didn't suddenly become liberal Republicans.
00:28:16
Speaker 4: No, no.
00:28:17
Speaker 1: And to your point in terms of running a primary the way that you suggested, the beauty of that is– you're not going to win a Republican primary unless you're true to core Republican principles.
00:28:28
Speaker 4: No doubt about it.
00:28:30
Speaker 1: So the ability to first, foundationally, stay true to those core Republican principles and then be able to appeal to the broader electorate, you know, that is what you need from a candidate, both in terms of really careful, creative thinking in terms of their ability to reach people and make the case. Yeah, that That's the only winning formula out there statewide.
00:28:56
Speaker 2: Now, let me point out, the day that Bill Owens announced his candidacy for governor in 1997, he laid out three agenda items. Cut taxes, reform education, improve transportation. We had detailed policy proposals behind every one of them. That was in December of 1997. On election day, 1998, what was Bill Owens talking about? Cutting taxes, improving transportation, and reforming education. My point being is that we didn't have some right-wing agenda in the primary and then dive to the middle. We had an agenda that could win a primary.
00:29:29
Speaker 4: Same thing with Wayne Allard. Same thing with Wayne Allard.
00:29:32
Speaker 1: And then you also had the credit and integrity that comes with that. Exactly. I don't think there's any doubt about the winning formula.
00:29:39
Speaker 4: No, I agree.
00:29:40
Speaker 2: I will tell you, I have had MAGA people tell me, first of all, they say Colorado was an easy Republican state in those days. Anybody could have won. And that approach is so outmoded and it's not relevant anymore.
00:29:56
Speaker 4: I've got news. That is the only way we will win again in Colorado.
00:30:00
Speaker 1: And it was.
00:30:01
Speaker 2: I mean, Dan, during that period of time, well, it was very hard to win an election in Colorado.
00:30:08
Speaker 4: Always has been.
00:30:10
Speaker 1: As proven by, I mean, Bill Owens, tremendous candidate, great governor. That was a very narrow victory over. What was her name again? Shetler.
00:30:18
Speaker 2: Gail Shetler, she was the lieutenant governor under Roy Romer, who was leaving office with 70% approval rating.
00:30:24
Speaker 4: And we beat her.
00:30:24
Speaker 1: And when we come back, I'll tell you about the question I asked Roy Romer on election night when I was anchoring KOA coverage that he still hates me for. You're on the Dan Kaplan Show.
00:30:38
Speaker 4: And now, back to the Dan Kaplan Show podcast.
00:30:41
Speaker 1: The show started today that he would need to leave it live for another commitment, but I appreciate you being here to kind of flush this out. And it rolls off of a comment Dick made at the end of the show yesterday at very end when I didn't have a chance to respond about MAGA and MAGA needing to change some things for the GOP to win in the future. And then we spent a lot of time in this show breaking it down. You can pull it off the podcast, but I think it's fair to say bottom line, and it's the way you started today's show, that there are plenty of good things happening in the Colorado GOP and that you do see opportunity coming down the road. And now we're just talking about the great battle of ideas and how to take full advantage of that. So 28, presidential and Senate seat.
00:31:28
Speaker 4: Yeah, the only statewide race is the Senate seat.
00:31:32
Speaker 1: Now, how do you think the presidential will affect the GOP chances in that Senate race?
00:31:39
Speaker 2: Well, I think it will affect it. We'll have a new nominee. Trump, of course, has been on the ballot three times. He lost to Hillary Clinton by four in 2016. He lost to Biden by 14 in 2020. He lost by 11 in 2024 to Harris. I think that Colorado could be in play in 2028. I really do, because the Democrats might be nominating AOC. They might be nominating some other far-left candidate. And so— I think if a strong candidate is nominated by the Republicans, I think that would be an asset to Republican candidates here in Colorado.
00:32:19
Speaker 1: Yeah. And at this point, I think it's fair to assume it'll be either J.D. or Marco.
00:32:24
Speaker 4: At this moment, I think that's right.
00:32:25
Speaker 1: And would either of those fit that criteria?
00:32:28
Speaker 4: Depending on what kind of.
00:32:29
Speaker 2: Campaigns they've run and what, and if they commit to Colorado, I mean, I think it could be.
00:32:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, sure. Yeah. Boy, I would have to think both would be really credible.
00:32:38
Speaker 2: Sure.
00:32:38
Speaker 1: Yeah. You know, I've always been a Marco Rubio fan. That's no knock on JD Vance, but always been a Rubio fan. And I think he'd probably have a bigger reach. Yeah.
00:32:47
Speaker 2: Chance to, Oh, I've been a fan of Vance since he wrote Hillbilly Elegy, which is one of the greatest books, political books, if you want to describe it that way, that's ever been written.
00:32:57
Speaker 4: I mean, very, very, That was a brilliant book by J.D. Vance.
00:33:01
Speaker 1: How would you grade his work as VP?
00:33:03
Speaker 2: I think he— well, you know, when you're VP, you're number two, and you are basically subservient to the president. And I think he's been a loyal foot soldier and has tried to defend the president. In fact, I will say this about J.D. Vance. I think he has been more adept at defending the president's agenda than the president has at many times because I think the president goes off on these tangents. And I think that J.D. Vance is much more focused, much more disciplined. And frankly, we need a candidate like that in 2024. Yeah, Marco Rubio's been great about boosting the president's agenda. They both have been excellent representatives of the administration and of the president, yes.
00:33:44
Speaker 1: Think they'd be on the same ticket?
00:33:47
Speaker 4: I have no idea.
00:33:49
Speaker 1: No, and I'm thinking ahead in terms of Colorado, just in terms of Colorado and how it affects these different races. As you said, the only statewide will be that Senate race, but I think with a real chance to win it, because I think a really good chance the Dems nominate a socialist.
00:34:05
Speaker 2: I think that Senate seat will be up for grabs, Dan, if we don't cancel the primary.
00:34:10
Speaker 1: I mean, Milat Kiros, open-admitted socialist, campaigns repeatedly with Hassan Piker, so I have to assume she shares those horrific anti-American views and anti-Semitic views. She would have beat Hickenlooper easily, right?
00:34:25
Speaker 4: She might have, yeah.
00:34:26
Speaker 1: In this cycle, yeah. I mean, that unknown socialist almost beat her.
00:34:29
Speaker 2: And by the way, I think there's a chance that the city of Denver will elect a socialist mayor. And I think by the time we got to the 2028 election, that they will drive Denver and Colorado deeper.
00:34:42
Speaker 4: Into the hole.
00:34:45
Speaker 2: The electorate might finally say, we've had enough of this. They know that Colorado has been in decline since. for eight years since Democrats took total control of everything in Colorado. And I think, but they've still been voting Democratic. Maybe they won't.
00:34:58
Speaker 1: Well, you're the guy who's won races, not me. But what I'd say to that is I see it the opposite way that. The worse things get, the more people are going to vote for these far lefties and these socialists because the more dependent on government they're going to be. The people who don't like it are going to take off. They're going to move somewhere else.
00:35:15
Speaker 4: Well, that's a good point. A lot of people are. Thank you for being here, Dan.
00:35:18
Speaker 1: Appreciate it. Have a great weekend. When we come back, I can tell from the text the reaction to our conversation, which is great because it's constructive. The whole point is how do we win? How do we win all these great ideas? We have an obligation to go out and win with those. How do we do it? That and more ahead on the Dan Kaplan Show.
