[00:00:00] Al Booth: Hello. Welcome to Dad Asks Mums with me Al Booth. I'm dad of Alfie - Alfie's five. I've got Sienna who's three, and I'm also fiance of their Mum, who is Kerri. I'm not giving her age. Oh no, I know better than that. A
Now the idea behind this show is just to open up conversations that help me as a dad understand a bit more about raising children from a mum's point of view.
And just kind of having those conversations that maybe you don't have with your own partner, because you know, you've got kids running around most of the time, and when they're in bed, you don't wanna get all deep and stuff, do you? Um, so hopefully by having these conversations, we can all just pick up a few tips here and there.
Now on this episode, I'm talking to Lucy Baker, aka the Geriatric Mum.
AS well as being a confidence coach and guest expert on GMB and Radio Four's, famous Woman's Hour, Lucy had her third child in her forties. It's just really interesting to hear in this episode how having a child a bit later in life compares to when she had her first two, and just the experiences and how life changes and stuff.
It sounds a lot like this.
ALFIE: Dad Asks Mums
[00:01:18] Lucy Baker: That very first few years of being a mom really change how you feel about yourself as a woman.
Unfortunately, when you've got a child with adhd, life's really hard. It's not what I signed up for.
I wonder whether men have a dad's guilt just in the same way that moms do.
I feel like I'm kind of in my groove more now in my forties than I was in my thirties.
[00:01:42] Al Booth: Now, just before we fully get into it, just a reminder that if you'd like to be on the show or you want to ask a question or get involved in any way, you can drop me a line on Twitter or Instagram at Dad asks Mums.
So here is Lucy Baker then, and despite her brilliant blog and her social media presence as the geriatric mom, Lucy isn't actually a geriatric.
But she's a mum of three, in fact. So let's find out why. Why Lucy? Why geriatric mom?
[00:02:08] Lucy Baker: Yes. Why? It's a horrible word, isn't it? Let's just start by saying, so people are called geriatric mums. If you are in the UK and you are pregnant over the age of 35, you can be called a geriatric mum, or advanced maternal age is another one that you hear quite a lot.
So yes, I am officially a geriatric mom because I've got three children. I had the first one at 34, so I was just under that geriatric sort of um, label. Second one at 37. Nobody said a word about that one. And then I had my final baby. I say final in big capital letters. Uh, at 43. Are we gonna be able to do this cuz the plane?
[00:02:49] Al Booth: No, no. The whole point of this podcast is honesty and openness. And Lucy lives under a flight path of, of the r a f. So if you're hearing things in the background, they're planes, they're fighter jets. It's like Top Gun. It's like Top Gun, the podcast, but with a geriatric Mum.
[00:03:03] Lucy Baker: And actually being a parent.
Two of my children are in school today and one is off. So the reason I could have done this, In the house, but she's moping around the house today with an earache, so that's why I've come to this flight path. Shed .
ALFIE: It's time for a question.
[00:03:19] Al Booth: What was the last conversation you had with your children?
[00:03:22] Lucy Baker: Well the one with the eldest was, I'm going to look through your phone, which I'm holding right here in my hands as I talk to you, because kids have this real urge to be on their phones all the time, and my daughter's off ill.
And, uh, I said, I'm gonna take your phone into the working shed and I'm probably gonna look through it. So the last conversation I had with her was, I'm taking your phone to go and look through it, and it didn't end well. So she's in there and I'm in here with her phone on the desk.
[00:03:52] Al Booth: Have you got the passcode?
[00:03:53] Lucy Baker: Yeah, I've just tried it and she's given me the wrong one, , and of course it doesn't work. She's changed it since.
[00:04:00] Al Booth: Yeah, of course. Yeah, of course. Oh, what are the chances?
[00:04:03] Lucy Baker: Well, I've said to her, you know, don't check it every single night, but I will spot check it when I feel like it, and when she's off school, I obviously don't want her to sit on her phone all day.
So I thought that's a great opportunity for me to do this today if I had the passcode.
[00:04:15] Al Booth: Because this is my, and I'll, I'll say it's time and time again, my biggest concern about parenting is when my children get old enough to have the phones and the social media. Ah, a minefield is, is minefield as an adult, anyway.
[00:04:27] Lucy Baker: It's very, very hard to monitor. To put the boundaries in place. You know, I'm not telling her off in any way, but she walks around with it like it's part of her body and I'm a quite a strict parent and she hates me for it. And I do get strict around phones because they are so addictive and I worry about the time that they spend on them.
And I did see an article actually the other day about TikTok saying that nobody knows the kind of lasting effects of this bombardment of media, but my biggest problem with being a parent these days is, Phone use.
[00:05:01] Al Booth: I think that's probably a common thing. That's the one I'm not looking forward to. And already my kid's go on YouTube.
But my son's five and he'll sit there and watch donkey videos all day. Donkey sound effects. Documentaries about donkeys. Anything about donkeys?
ALFIE: Oh, Dad.
[00:05:14] Lucy Baker: Linking it back to this whole sort of geriatric month thing. I do have fairly geriatric, dinosaur type views about it. I mean, I'm quite up to speed with technology and I use it in my own business.
You know, I use social media for my stuff, but I was brought up in the seventies, you know, I'm the seventies kid. I walk around a and mustard polo neck and had a really organic kind of rural upbringing and I want that so much for my own children. How'd you do it? Nowadays?
[00:05:41] Al Booth: It is that thing of going, I used to play on bikes and we'd be allowed around the village and obviously I can't let my son oor my daughter out my site now.
And I don't think the world's changed that much in the sense of, you know, who's around and, and terrible things happened way before I was a kid. And actually it's probably more dangerous being on the phone because that's how people get involved and that's the scary thing.
[00:06:02] Lucy Baker: I've got this real bug burn. I dunno if anybody listening feels the same, but I cannot stand this hashtag making memories thing. Again, this is showing my age. I'm like, and like exactly like you said, you don't remember, you can't make other people have memories whether they're on the phone or not.
You can't say, oh, we went to the beach. We're making memories because you can't choose the memories that you keep. You know, I remember going to London once and being car sick and dad opening the door and me vomiting at the door. You know, memories aren't on your phone, are they? Memories are in your brain.
[00:06:33] Al Booth: Maybe one photo a year to remind you what your hairstyle was that year. And that's all you need. Really isn't, everything else is up here.
SIENNA: I think we have gone off topic.
I was gonna say, we've, we've left out your 10 year old and your three-year old.
[00:06:45] Lucy Baker: The last thing I said to the 10 year old was, get your shoes on . She's called Ivy.
Ivy. Just get your shoes on. And then off she went. And then Rocks. Uh, my geriatric baby, he was just charging around. I bought him a wand actually yesterday, a magic wand. It was a Halloween thing and it was half price. And because he'd had his first little parents evening, my little wand, so he was just dancing around with this wand and having fun.
So I don't, I just gave him a kiss. That was the last sort of interaction I had with him this morning, and off he went with his sparkly wand. So, yeah, that was cute. Mornings are military mini when you got three and they're all going to different schools. It's like a production line of children and if one kicks off, I'm like, oh really?
[00:07:25] Al Booth: Yeah. So fractious, isn't it? Oh, Alfie this morning pushed his mummy, cuz Carrie turned off the donkeys on the YouTube because we were getting ready for school, hit his. Now, see this is, this would go, if this was football, this would go to v r . I think he hit his sister's feet. He said he pushed them . We don't wanna encourage either
[00:07:44] Lucy Baker: KInd hands, as they say at Rocky's nursery.
Cause he went through a little phase. Only once I, I picked him up once and they went, he pushed some kids today and I was like, oh God, he's normally such a cool kid. And they, they say kind hands rocky. Use your kind hands. That's why I try it at home. And they're just like,
[00:08:01] Al Booth: yeah, . That's what Kerri always says.
She was like, I just don't want our children to grow up to be brats. And I'm like exactly the same. I don't. I want 'em to be kind and loving and funny. , I mean, funny is something you've born with or you're not, but I'm trying to instill that into them. If you're funny, it'll get you through a lot of things.
I think.
[00:08:16] Lucy Baker: You can paper over the cracks with humor, can't you? ?
[00:08:20] Al Booth: Oh no, don't
SIENNA: Now for the next bit.
[00:08:23] Lucy Baker: I've got one child, the eldest is diagnosed with A D H D, and she doesn't respond in the same way at all to the way that the other children do. So I actually have to be different type of parents depending on who I'm dealing with, which is really hard to wrap your head around.
And that's kind of what I've learned along the way that. Actually kids need different things and it's based around the diagnosis. I think that, you know, there's such a massive difference in the way that someone with ADHD behaves or thinks or is impulsive or can restrain themselves. So
[00:08:57] Al Booth: HOw do you go about that then if, if someone's got ADHD.
[00:09:01] Lucy Baker: Well with her, she processes things really, really slowly. So you might say things like, can you go and brush your teeth? You have to put it in such a way that she feels like she's making the decision to brush her teeth. It's really hard to do. You can't go grab your bag. Brush your teeth, get your shoes on and out the door.
She'd just be like, what? I have no idea what you said. Well, I say it, the other kids, and they're like, yeah, sure. They have a much more immature brain than their actual chronological age. So for example, if your child is 12, their brain operates maturity level around. 30% less so, although her brain and the capabilities are her of her age, her executive functioning, which sounds technical, it's like how you reason, how you organize yourself, how you prioritize, how you regulate yourself is way, way immature than her age.
So you've gotta kind of treat her a bit more. A bit younger than she is, which is really hard. That's the really hard bit I find. So, um, it's really complicated and it, it takes a lot of thinking about and there's lots of articles about that. But on the whole, back to your question, it's about parenting for their needs, not parenting for what you want to be a parent like.
[00:10:17] Al Booth: Completely. And, and like you said earlier, it's that thing of you have an idea of the parent you are gonna be, because I was gonna be this like, not hippie as such, but just this carefree, you know, like me in my twenties, essentially carefree. Everything's funny. If you have to face it, you'll face it. But in the meantime, don't think about the serious stuff.
And, and it's not, it's not, is it? It's not.
[00:10:37] Lucy Baker: And I always had this, I knows a little cry. Unfortunately, when you've got a child with adhd, life's really hard, like motivating them. Um, people have this assumption that kids with ADHD have always on the go and they need to just run around like lunatics. And that happens when they're younger.
But when they get older, they're not very hyperactive. And they might have a lot going on in their brain, but actually she comes home from school and she crashes, you know, so I've got this kid lying on the bed, staring at her phone, and I'm like, this is not what I signed up for.
And then the, the difficult kid takes over and the other two kind of get forgotten a bit.
It's always about trying to find a balance. As a parent, I feel like I'm kind of in my groove more now in my forties, and this leads to me having a baby three years ago as well. In my forties, I'm more confident and more myself than I was in my thirties. So I think it all kind of is settling and it's in, I'm in a better place as a parent now.
I'm in my forties. Definitely.
ALFIE& SIENNA: Dad Asks Mums
[00:11:36] Al Booth: YEah, let's talk about that. Let's talk about you being geriatric mum. Well, let's talk about the name, first of all. Why did you choose to, to go under that nom de plume, as they say?
[00:11:45] Lucy Baker: Yeah. Well, it's obviously quite shocking and it attracts attention because it. People know what it means and they're so sort of shocked by the term.
It's like what you were called a geriatric mum. I mean, I was actually called advanced maternal age and I was under consultant care because I was, me and my ancient womb needed looking after me and my geriatric womb . Um, but not when I don't think about that, it's not very nice thought, is it When I found out I was pregnant at 42?
I went on Google, which loads of people do, and it's, you know, pregnant and they're 42. And it was like, risk, risk, risk. I was thinking, oh shit, you know, I'm this older woman, you know, I'm in this risk category, what does that all mean? And one night when I couldn't sleep when I was pregnant, about three months pregnant, I set up a Facebook group and the, and the blog geriatric mom.co uk.
And women just flooded to the group. Women just like me, who were having babies in their forties were really, you know, in a good place. They were confident, contented, and they were having babies in their forties. So what, you know? Yeah. When I found out I was pregnant, lots of people around me said, oh, You're gonna have a baby in your forties, like you're gonna be 47 when the baby starts school.
And I, at that time, when people were saying those things, I completely accepted it. I was like, okay, fine, great. I'm gonna have my third baby and I'm cool about it. I'm fit healthy and I'm gonna enjoy this pregnancy. And that was my attitude. But then when people were saying, well, you're gonna be the oldest mum in the on the school gates, and I was like, okay, well maybe I will be, but actually I don't really care.
[00:13:23] Al Booth: You're talking me into it now I'm gonna go in and say, Kerri, I want a third child. And she'll be going, I've thought about it... no,
[00:13:30] Lucy Baker: BUt my brother's friend just announced he's having his fourth child from a new partner and he's 51, and nobody said a word
[00:13:38] Al Booth: DOesn't happen with men. That's the, that's the thing.
It's like if, if we have a third, and I don't think it's gonna happen just in case my parents are listening cause they're gonna be like, what ?
Um, I think your sperm gets slower. But, you know, I've never been that fit anyway. I don't think my sperms particularly fast. I can't imagine just from a, you know, genetic point of view.
So, and all, all it matters then is, like you say, they've being the oldest dad in the playground or. But again, I'm, I'm terrible at football, so it's never been a thing that, oh, I won't be able to play football. I wouldn't have been able to play football if I had my children when I was 20. Cuz I'm rubbish at football.
[00:14:11] Lucy Baker: It's absolutely hopeless. .
[00:14:13] Al Booth: Yeah. I can sit down and write silly poems with them. I could do that at any age. So, but you're right on the mum. It's, um, you're so positive about it. Were there any concerns you had?
[00:14:23] Lucy Baker: I don't, I nearly said I keep myself young, but that makes me sound like I'm 75 . Yeah, it does. You know, I think my attitudes are young and I feel like I'm, I don't feel like I'm 47 nearly at all, but the only thing I do think of, and I said this to the girls the other day, I said, when Rocky is 20, I'm going to be 63.
And they're like, oh. And it's in my head that I'm gonna be 63. And what can I do about it now? I guess it's more of an incentive in some ways to have a, you know, to keep fit and do all the things you're supposed to do in life and blah, blah, blah, blah. But it, it worries me occasionally, I think, on the positive side, aside from being a geriatric mom, I'm confidence coach, so I help women who don't have confidence to be confident.
And I was a person who had no confidence whatsoever for years. So when I had my first two children, I was in that bracket of, You know, being horrible to myself, not having much confidence, not really knowing where I was going in life and not a confident person. So when I had rocks at 43, I'd worked on all that stuff and I was a much more confident person.
So I've kinda accepted everything in life and I'm cool with it. And I, I think that keeps me younger as well, and I feel like a better parent to him because I'm in a better place.
[00:15:41] Al Booth: Yeah, I think there's a lot in that, isn't there?
[00:15:43] Lucy Baker: You know, it's a, without sounding too cheesy, it's a real blessing to have another baby.
And I think it's, Brilliant and thank God he's quite a chilled out kid now
ALFIE & SIENNA: Daddy's disc of dilemma.
[00:15:59] Al Booth: So on my she wall, I have a round cake base, which is gold and it's got some wooden numbers on which are nicked from one of the kids' games. And I give it a spin and whatever it lands on is a number correlating to a dilemma I talk about with my expert.
Take it away, kids.
SFX: Wheel spinning
Spin it
so it's got a little wooden arrow point into it. I've put a little screw in the middle, but it's not quite in the middle, so whenever I spin it, it always lands between four and five because yeah, it is not centered. It's very poor. There we go. So
[00:16:30] Lucy Baker: IT's four. Yay.
[00:16:36] Al Booth: Now, because I want this to be an open and transparent podcast at all times, I just want to say that the time of recording with Lucy, Kerri, my partner, hadn't turned 40. Whereas now she's very much 40 and she's smashing it and she's amazing. I mean, it probably doesn't make any difference whatsoever, but it just feels right to be open.
Right. Here we go. Daddy's disk of Dilemma.
So here's the dilemma for you. As my partner turns 40, she's gonna love how much I've mentioned that, by the way, in this episode, isn't she? How do I play my part in her being a confident woman as well as celebrating that she's an amazing mummy as well.
[00:17:15] Lucy Baker: It's one person, isn't it? You know, no matter what you're doing in your life, you're still, you're a mum and you are a confident woman, and all those things kind of mush into one.
But I think as a partner, I just think it's always about supporting somebody's choices, isn't it? And that keeps them confident. Actually, the very first few years of being a mom really change how you feel about yourself as a woman. You know, adding all that stuff into your life that was never there before, changes so much.
I mean, I, I know never was a confident person in those years anyway, but being a parent, it was like, whoa. what has happened? You know, you, your body changes, your socializing, changes, your friendship groups change, all sorts of things. But luckily my partner Dan, has always just let me get on with what I want to get on with.
He's just always been supportive If I want to just go and do something, he's like, yeah, cool. I think that's how you support somebody in your life to be confident, to remain this kind of confident person. Yeah. I think it's really important to talk and actually me and my husband just not great at it at the moment cause there's so much going on in our house that we forget to talk.
[00:18:20] Al Booth: The thing is, I'm, what I'm always very aware of is, saying, "Oh, you're a brilliant mum? I, I love being a parent with you and you're a great mummy. And, but also the four years we were together before we had our son, which is like, you know, you're a great womanyou are, you know, all the, all those things as well.
It's kind of molding the two in, isn't it?
[00:18:36] Lucy Baker: It is. And sometimes you don't feel like a great mum. You know, this kind of mum guilt that walks around with me a lot of the time, it's sort of heavy sometimes, you know, I've shouting at my kids and I've thrown her into school and then I'm like, oh god. And I have, I carry that weight of guilt around me a lot, but I make sure I talk to my child about that and we kind of iron it all out and you know, I'll talk to Dan about that as well.
But I wonder whether. Men have a A man guilt. A dad guilt. That is one of my questions. So I'm gonna come to that.
[00:19:04] Al Booth: Don't ruin the format.
*LAUGHTER*
MUSIC
The podcast is obviously called Dad Asks Mums, but what is the one thing you as a mum would like to ask me as a dad?
[00:19:15] Lucy Baker: So the first one was, do you think you comprehend the day-to-day? Grind of being a mom, you know, at some point in the day, I'm already planning the evening meal, you know, what's in the fridge, what can I cook, what have they got for lunch?
All of that stuff. As well as all the school admin. I'm constantly on my phone, writing to the school, doing something, filling in a form, checking all of that stuff, and it has become completely my role. Do you as a dad understand the weight of that and actually gets more and more as your kids get older?
[00:19:48] Al Booth: Right. I'm gonna give an answer now, which I know that every mom listening is gonna go and some dads are gonna go, no, no, no. My answer is Kerri loves that side of stuff, . And this is like, "she doesn't now al no."
I'm the creative one all over the place. And, and that's what she says. You are always the one who just, like, your main focus is making them laugh.
Mine is making them, keeping them alive.
[00:20:09] Lucy Baker: Yeah. quite a big job. That .
[00:20:13] Al Booth: Yeah. I, you know, I think that's equal, but.
[00:20:15] Lucy Baker: So she went on holiday? Yeah. Gave you no instructions at all. Would you be fine?
[00:20:21] Al Booth: I went away with the kids for four days at the weekend and, um, you know, I know how to dress them and I know how to feed them, and I know, you know, they need to go to bed at this time, and that's a bit out the window at the moment anyway, but we're trying on that.
So, yeah, I, I think if Kerri went away, I would know what time to get them to school and nursery. Oh, Monday is trouser day. Tuesday's, PE Wednesday's, yoga Thursday's, trousers Friday's more pe. But they've changed it. They've dropped the yoga just to, cuz they knew we were gonna do this podcast and you were gonna test me
So Wednesday is no longer yoga. It's school Trouser day. Yes.
[00:20:55] Lucy Baker: God, you are on it. Yeah. I love it because I recently, I went to Ibiza with my sister for a well earned break. I got everything sorted . I did a big online shop. I ironed things. I got things ready, da da da da off. I went on holiday. He brought his mum and dad in
Do men need another woman in the house? I'm gonna be away for that long. Do they need. That maternal figure around, I mean, he's working full-time, he's got a busy job. But no, I dunno whether I'm torn between, that's a sign of weakness or great that he's getting support because why not? You need a, a village, you know, you need families around you to help you bring up your own children.
Maybe I'm a bit stubborn and I'm like, I can do it or by myself, I dunno. But I'm like, you know, and or yeah. So I just wonder, and I say to him, who's. Rocky's nursery school teacher, and he's like, um, so I just wonder whether it's a man thing.
Or whether it's checking out because I'm so invested and checked in on all of that stuff.
[00:21:59] Al Booth: There could be that element, you know.
[00:22:00] Lucy Baker: My sister said, Years ago, and I think she's right, that women tend to, this is not all but tend to start those routines with babies. They start all those processes so they pretty much know how it all goes, which is why we end up doing it all. Mm-hmm. You know, I'm not saying Dan doesn't do anything cuz he does do loads of school runs and all sort, you know, but I have to kind of just organize him as well.
Do men know how to read the room?
[00:22:26] Al Booth: Oh, Right. Okay. Yeah. In that case, now you've mentioned all that stuff. Yeah, no, absolutely. I, I, I think I've still got on my phone in my notes. First time Kerry went back to work or went to meet your friend after Alfie was born, and I've got the list of what time to feed, how much milk, blah, blah, blah.
And I'm very aware when I talk about things like this that, you know, there are families of, of two dads who obviously, you know, do it all and, and know. So it's not just a woman versus man thing. No. Exactly. But it's, um, yeah, I think it can sometimes just for you, that's the thing. I think as a dad you get a choice.
How much you see and think, right. I need to be a part of this, and how much you can go, well, it'll get done, you know? Yeah. Kerri always says, all right, I need to lay the uniform out. And I must admit, yeah, I do let her do that and that's the wrong word to use and I should just go, I'll get the uniform, but then I take them to school every morning and you know, and I'll drive to take Sienna to nursery or to her Nans who, who has her a couple morning. In my head, that's the compromise.
ALFIE: Daddy Is a bum cake.
[00:23:25] Lucy Baker: My other question for you, actually, when your partner first became a mum, you know, with a birth and the gory bits and the looking shit and the late nights and the, you know, up five times a night and wiping nappies and all that, how did your view of her change?
[00:23:40] Al Booth: Oh, it, I, it just, Absolute admiration. Just complete admiration and love. I'm gonna get really emotional now, . Aw, good. I think, I think about my kids being young. I don't really think about Kerri in that scenario, but yeah, just God, just absolutely. Um, oh, I didn't expect that to happen. . Um, yeah, just seeing her, for both of them, just everything she went through to give birth was just incredible.
[00:24:06] Lucy Baker: Ah, it's given me goose pimples that.
[00:24:08] Al Booth: Yeah, just watching her having to go through and you are kind of there trying to. Do you a bit as a dad, which is like, you're being brilliant and you're being amazing, but you never know if...
[00:24:16] Lucy Baker: YOu've got an awkward role in those situations, haven't you? Because it's a bit like, what can I do?
Can I do anything?
[00:24:22] Al Booth: Yeah. I mean, there were little bits, Alfie's blood pressure dropped cuz they, because, um, Kerri had an epidural for both of them. The monitor went down and nurses came, and doctors came in. But so my role there was just to be calm and say to Kerri, it's okay. They're just trying, they're changing the wires, it's fine.
But as Kerri says, no, I know your face was white and scared . So you were saying these words, but I knew.
I think as the person,
[00:24:42] Lucy Baker: you know, when you are, when you are the one giving birth, you're so sort of in the weird zone and Kerri will probably identify with this. You don't really. It is really hard to kind of know what's going on in a way.
[00:24:52] Al Booth: Well, that's it.
[00:24:53] Lucy Baker: You know, birth is te terribly hard in some situations, but as the partner, it's a bit like, God, what is going on? Like, you know, and it's meant to be this beautiful, wonderful occasion, and it's not. It's not. It's very messy. I mean, with Nancy, my first baby, I was vomiting every two minutes. I had an epidural as well, so I'd completely identify with Kerri .
And then afterwards you have to have a catheter in so you're weeing into a bag and it's like, this isn't very glamorous,
[00:25:20] Al Booth: You've just reminded me of something then. There's a photo. So Kerri had a catheter in the second one. She's, I just wanna get out of the, you know, the little thing where they put the curtain round. I just went, go and have a walk.
But she had the catheter, so I went and found a Sainsbury's bag that I'd bought and just emptied it. We had some food in, emptied the snacks out and just put the catheter. So Kerri's walking round with this bag. just like in a nighty.
But the gory bits are just part of it. Cuz I was going, you know, down to the business end as they call it, um, and I could see like Alfie's head coming out and then he'd go back up and he'd come out and he would go back up and. But it's just incredible. I didn't wanna miss that at all.
And it, and you know, if you are in that situation and you are seeing a woman as a sexual being, then you are quite, and this is the only swear on this podcast, fucked up ,um, cause she's given birth to your child and it's not a sexual thing.
It's this amazing experience. And then afterwards, yeah, of course, you know, she looked tired and exhausted because she's had a human living in her for nine months. And then sex obviously wasn't, wasn't in the forefront of my mind for... at least a couple of days after that.
[00:26:28] Lucy Baker: Yeah. , no, God don't even go there.
Somebody said to me, it takes a full year for your body to recover. You know all the muscles to go back. Cause your ribs, if you think about your ribs are stretched right out. They've gotta go back the muscles around them and also they do liken it to being in an actual car crash. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I remember Dan's mum and dad came around the very day we got home after having our firstborn.
And then I realized when I had my third child that nobody was gonna come around for a week. You know, somebody coming through the door and you've just got home from hospital, there's an airplane again. Um, was truly hideous. I mean, I dunno if you've been through similar, but you know, people coming through with flowers and chocolates and you're just thinking, go away.
[00:27:15] Al Booth: See, this is the other thing. If I have a third, there's so much that I've learned that I'll go, ah, people will build shrines to me cuz I'll be so knowledgeable.
[00:27:23] Lucy Baker: I think you learn where to put your boundaries in. Yeah. And going back to this geriatric mum thing, I was so hot on trying to help other people to not judge other mums.
You know, going back to some of the reasons why people have babies older, you know, one lady had, um, her partner had died and then she met somebody else. You know, people said to me, was it i v f? Was it a mistake? But the other real reasons are choice, not feeling ready, not feeling maybe mentally prepared, not having the right partner, uh, not having enough money, you know, all sorts of reasons.
But the one when the lady told me her partner had died and they hadn't managed to have children, and then she met someone else, I was like, you know, we don't know what's going on in other people's lives. And parenting is so judged if you're, if you're doing it verbally or just inside your own. Head a lot.
We judge other people and their parenting choices all the time. And actually, who cares?
[00:28:18] Al Booth: Yeah. Who's getting it right?
[00:28:19] Lucy Baker: You know.
[00:28:20] Al Booth: WHo are we holding the, the torch up to to say, right, you've got it. Right. We need to be like no one. There's not one person.
[00:28:26] Lucy Baker: No. And I think these conversations that we are having are really important because the knowledge and the learning that actually we're all just bloody bumbling around trying to make decisions that are okay. Maybe learning from our own childhoods, learning from our mistakes, trying not to feel too guilty, getting kids to school on time. You know, it is just a myriad of things to think about as a parent, and actually most people are just trying to do their best.
[00:28:50] Al Booth: We're all just trying to walk each other home. Which is so true, isn't it? We should all just be like holding hands and just trying to get to wherever we think we need to be.
[00:28:58] Lucy Baker: It's funny, isn't it, that you are asking other moms about, you know, stuff and obviously you're married to a woman, but you know, there's so much you can learn around your own.
Situation that can help you in your life. And it's like, you know, if I, if I was to speak to loads of other dads about some of the things that Dan's going through, I think that would be really helpful for me as well. You know, the idea that you are doing this to open up those conversations around some of the things you might not always talk to your own partner about.
I think it's really interesting, isn't it?
[00:29:27] Al Booth: R ight. Speaking of which, what is the one question that you would've hoped as a dad, I would ask you as a mum?
[00:29:34] Lucy Baker: You know, there's so many things that I do as a mother where I'm, I'm kinda tuning into my kids' mental health, and I'm trying to make sure that they're safe and that I know all about their friends.
And I just think the mother generally is so vast. It's a heavy load sometimes, and. Sometimes I just want to be able to walk away and have some time for myself, but then I don't even feel like I do get that because I'm always switched on to motherhood. You know, and I sort of touched on this earlier, but I wonder whether men really do understand what that load is like.
In my experience, men are in the moment just doing what needs to be done there and then. Whereas I'm casting my mind ahead to the next six months, the next year for my kids.
[00:30:12] Al Booth: Yes, that's definitely the case with Kerri and and Sienna's Nursery.
[00:30:16] Lucy Baker: But luckily I've got a partner. You know, there's loads of single moms out there who don't have that support, and you don't always have that person to come in and do that.
I'm gonna take over thing. You know, there's the lovely bits that balance all that out. My husband and I have this joke sometimes. Look at our watch at 6:00 PM we're like right now. The day starts.
SIENNA: Let's sing a song for bed
[00:30:40] Al Booth: I always like to try and finish with a song that you would sing your children as you get them to bed. There's a song called, uh, in This Friendly, friendly World by Fabio, and I sing that to Sienna every night since she was born. And The Rainbow Connection by the Muppets.
[00:30:56] Lucy Baker: I do a little song, I make It is two songs blended and it's like a lullaby.
Obviously. Don't do that for the 12 year old now.
Go to sleep. Little rocky, you're being a good boy today. And then I sing. You've painted a picture and seen a donkey or whatever. Then we sing lavender, blue. It's like a remix. It mixes into lavender, blue, lavender, blue, dilly, dilly. Do you know that one lavender. And then it, I go night, night, sleep tight mind the bedbugs don't bite. And if they do squeeze them tight and they won't come back another night. And my mom sang that to us. Every single night and now I do it to my children.
[00:31:39] Al Booth: Oh, that's lovely.
[00:31:40] Lucy Baker: Night, night sleep type mind the bedbugs don't bite. And if they do squeeze them tight and they won't come back another night.
My mega mix with that poem, bedbugs on the o uh, end, which is quite weird cause bedbugs are awful little things. But, um,
[00:31:53] Al Booth: I don't wanna say that I did think if I said oh bedbugs are gonna bite you,
[00:31:56] Lucy Baker: but somebody mentioned it a few years ago. I was like, they said that's quite weird actually. Beds are awful and my children are subjected to that most nights.
So yes.
ALFIE: Bye, Bye.
[00:32:16] Al Booth: Thank you so much. Lucy Baker, a k a, the geriatric mum. I love that chat. Do you know what I loved about that? It was just the, it was just the openness of, of understanding the mum's workload. I'll be honest with you, when, when we both had children, when Alfie was born for five, Well, getting off for six years ago now, um, I kind of, I, I really wanted to be equal carry and do everything equally and I still do, but my intentions and my doing when Alfie was born may have lapsed somewhat now.
And yeah, it's great to have these conversations cuz I can go, am I doing as much as I should be? But I dunno. Kerri's gonna find things really suspicious cuz after each recording I go in the house and she's like, uh, yeah. You've done an episode again, haven't you? Because I'm like, Hey, should we just, uh, sit down and how can I be better?
You can find Lucy on Twitter and Instagram at geriatric underscore mum also see her work at She Coaches Confidence. Dot com.
IF you'd like to be on the show, you can drop me a message on Twitter and Instagram at Dad asks Mums also, if you wanna hear other episodes or even leave a review if you want.
I know you're very busy, you don't always have the time to do that. I get that. Um, my daughter is gonna be here very soon just to tell you how you can do that. But until the next time, thank you so much for listening. I really appreciate you being here, and I'll see you soon.
SIENNA: You can get this wherever you get you're podcast.
Thanks for listening. Come back soon.
MUSIC
Turn it off.
Oh dear.
Now the idea behind this show is just to open up conversations that help me as a dad understand a bit more about raising children from a mum's point of view.
And just kind of having those conversations that maybe you don't have with your own partner, because you know, you've got kids running around most of the time, and when they're in bed, you don't wanna get all deep and stuff, do you? Um, so hopefully by having these conversations, we can all just pick up a few tips here and there.
Now on this episode, I'm talking to Lucy Baker, aka the Geriatric Mum.
AS well as being a confidence coach and guest expert on GMB and Radio Four's, famous Woman's Hour, Lucy had her third child in her forties. It's just really interesting to hear in this episode how having a child a bit later in life compares to when she had her first two, and just the experiences and how life changes and stuff.
It sounds a lot like this.
ALFIE: Dad Asks Mums
[00:01:18] Lucy Baker: That very first few years of being a mom really change how you feel about yourself as a woman.
Unfortunately, when you've got a child with adhd, life's really hard. It's not what I signed up for.
I wonder whether men have a dad's guilt just in the same way that moms do.
I feel like I'm kind of in my groove more now in my forties than I was in my thirties.
[00:01:42] Al Booth: Now, just before we fully get into it, just a reminder that if you'd like to be on the show or you want to ask a question or get involved in any way, you can drop me a line on Twitter or Instagram at Dad asks Mums.
So here is Lucy Baker then, and despite her brilliant blog and her social media presence as the geriatric mom, Lucy isn't actually a geriatric.
But she's a mum of three, in fact. So let's find out why. Why Lucy? Why geriatric mom?
[00:02:08] Lucy Baker: Yes. Why? It's a horrible word, isn't it? Let's just start by saying, so people are called geriatric mums. If you are in the UK and you are pregnant over the age of 35, you can be called a geriatric mum, or advanced maternal age is another one that you hear quite a lot.
So yes, I am officially a geriatric mom because I've got three children. I had the first one at 34, so I was just under that geriatric sort of um, label. Second one at 37. Nobody said a word about that one. And then I had my final baby. I say final in big capital letters. Uh, at 43. Are we gonna be able to do this cuz the plane?
[00:02:49] Al Booth: No, no. The whole point of this podcast is honesty and openness. And Lucy lives under a flight path of, of the r a f. So if you're hearing things in the background, they're planes, they're fighter jets. It's like Top Gun. It's like Top Gun, the podcast, but with a geriatric Mum.
[00:03:03] Lucy Baker: And actually being a parent.
Two of my children are in school today and one is off. So the reason I could have done this, In the house, but she's moping around the house today with an earache, so that's why I've come to this flight path. Shed .
ALFIE: It's time for a question.
[00:03:19] Al Booth: What was the last conversation you had with your children?
[00:03:22] Lucy Baker: Well the one with the eldest was, I'm going to look through your phone, which I'm holding right here in my hands as I talk to you, because kids have this real urge to be on their phones all the time, and my daughter's off ill.
And, uh, I said, I'm gonna take your phone into the working shed and I'm probably gonna look through it. So the last conversation I had with her was, I'm taking your phone to go and look through it, and it didn't end well. So she's in there and I'm in here with her phone on the desk.
[00:03:52] Al Booth: Have you got the passcode?
[00:03:53] Lucy Baker: Yeah, I've just tried it and she's given me the wrong one, , and of course it doesn't work. She's changed it since.
[00:04:00] Al Booth: Yeah, of course. Yeah, of course. Oh, what are the chances?
[00:04:03] Lucy Baker: Well, I've said to her, you know, don't check it every single night, but I will spot check it when I feel like it, and when she's off school, I obviously don't want her to sit on her phone all day.
So I thought that's a great opportunity for me to do this today if I had the passcode.
[00:04:15] Al Booth: Because this is my, and I'll, I'll say it's time and time again, my biggest concern about parenting is when my children get old enough to have the phones and the social media. Ah, a minefield is, is minefield as an adult, anyway.
[00:04:27] Lucy Baker: It's very, very hard to monitor. To put the boundaries in place. You know, I'm not telling her off in any way, but she walks around with it like it's part of her body and I'm a quite a strict parent and she hates me for it. And I do get strict around phones because they are so addictive and I worry about the time that they spend on them.
And I did see an article actually the other day about TikTok saying that nobody knows the kind of lasting effects of this bombardment of media, but my biggest problem with being a parent these days is, Phone use.
[00:05:01] Al Booth: I think that's probably a common thing. That's the one I'm not looking forward to. And already my kid's go on YouTube.
But my son's five and he'll sit there and watch donkey videos all day. Donkey sound effects. Documentaries about donkeys. Anything about donkeys?
ALFIE: Oh, Dad.
[00:05:14] Lucy Baker: Linking it back to this whole sort of geriatric month thing. I do have fairly geriatric, dinosaur type views about it. I mean, I'm quite up to speed with technology and I use it in my own business.
You know, I use social media for my stuff, but I was brought up in the seventies, you know, I'm the seventies kid. I walk around a and mustard polo neck and had a really organic kind of rural upbringing and I want that so much for my own children. How'd you do it? Nowadays?
[00:05:41] Al Booth: It is that thing of going, I used to play on bikes and we'd be allowed around the village and obviously I can't let my son oor my daughter out my site now.
And I don't think the world's changed that much in the sense of, you know, who's around and, and terrible things happened way before I was a kid. And actually it's probably more dangerous being on the phone because that's how people get involved and that's the scary thing.
[00:06:02] Lucy Baker: I've got this real bug burn. I dunno if anybody listening feels the same, but I cannot stand this hashtag making memories thing. Again, this is showing my age. I'm like, and like exactly like you said, you don't remember, you can't make other people have memories whether they're on the phone or not.
You can't say, oh, we went to the beach. We're making memories because you can't choose the memories that you keep. You know, I remember going to London once and being car sick and dad opening the door and me vomiting at the door. You know, memories aren't on your phone, are they? Memories are in your brain.
[00:06:33] Al Booth: Maybe one photo a year to remind you what your hairstyle was that year. And that's all you need. Really isn't, everything else is up here.
SIENNA: I think we have gone off topic.
I was gonna say, we've, we've left out your 10 year old and your three-year old.
[00:06:45] Lucy Baker: The last thing I said to the 10 year old was, get your shoes on . She's called Ivy.
Ivy. Just get your shoes on. And then off she went. And then Rocks. Uh, my geriatric baby, he was just charging around. I bought him a wand actually yesterday, a magic wand. It was a Halloween thing and it was half price. And because he'd had his first little parents evening, my little wand, so he was just dancing around with this wand and having fun.
So I don't, I just gave him a kiss. That was the last sort of interaction I had with him this morning, and off he went with his sparkly wand. So, yeah, that was cute. Mornings are military mini when you got three and they're all going to different schools. It's like a production line of children and if one kicks off, I'm like, oh really?
[00:07:25] Al Booth: Yeah. So fractious, isn't it? Oh, Alfie this morning pushed his mummy, cuz Carrie turned off the donkeys on the YouTube because we were getting ready for school, hit his. Now, see this is, this would go, if this was football, this would go to v r . I think he hit his sister's feet. He said he pushed them . We don't wanna encourage either
[00:07:44] Lucy Baker: KInd hands, as they say at Rocky's nursery.
Cause he went through a little phase. Only once I, I picked him up once and they went, he pushed some kids today and I was like, oh God, he's normally such a cool kid. And they, they say kind hands rocky. Use your kind hands. That's why I try it at home. And they're just like,
[00:08:01] Al Booth: yeah, . That's what Kerri always says.
She was like, I just don't want our children to grow up to be brats. And I'm like exactly the same. I don't. I want 'em to be kind and loving and funny. , I mean, funny is something you've born with or you're not, but I'm trying to instill that into them. If you're funny, it'll get you through a lot of things.
I think.
[00:08:16] Lucy Baker: You can paper over the cracks with humor, can't you? ?
[00:08:20] Al Booth: Oh no, don't
SIENNA: Now for the next bit.
[00:08:23] Lucy Baker: I've got one child, the eldest is diagnosed with A D H D, and she doesn't respond in the same way at all to the way that the other children do. So I actually have to be different type of parents depending on who I'm dealing with, which is really hard to wrap your head around.
And that's kind of what I've learned along the way that. Actually kids need different things and it's based around the diagnosis. I think that, you know, there's such a massive difference in the way that someone with ADHD behaves or thinks or is impulsive or can restrain themselves. So
[00:08:57] Al Booth: HOw do you go about that then if, if someone's got ADHD.
[00:09:01] Lucy Baker: Well with her, she processes things really, really slowly. So you might say things like, can you go and brush your teeth? You have to put it in such a way that she feels like she's making the decision to brush her teeth. It's really hard to do. You can't go grab your bag. Brush your teeth, get your shoes on and out the door.
She'd just be like, what? I have no idea what you said. Well, I say it, the other kids, and they're like, yeah, sure. They have a much more immature brain than their actual chronological age. So for example, if your child is 12, their brain operates maturity level around. 30% less so, although her brain and the capabilities are her of her age, her executive functioning, which sounds technical, it's like how you reason, how you organize yourself, how you prioritize, how you regulate yourself is way, way immature than her age.
So you've gotta kind of treat her a bit more. A bit younger than she is, which is really hard. That's the really hard bit I find. So, um, it's really complicated and it, it takes a lot of thinking about and there's lots of articles about that. But on the whole, back to your question, it's about parenting for their needs, not parenting for what you want to be a parent like.
[00:10:17] Al Booth: Completely. And, and like you said earlier, it's that thing of you have an idea of the parent you are gonna be, because I was gonna be this like, not hippie as such, but just this carefree, you know, like me in my twenties, essentially carefree. Everything's funny. If you have to face it, you'll face it. But in the meantime, don't think about the serious stuff.
And, and it's not, it's not, is it? It's not.
[00:10:37] Lucy Baker: And I always had this, I knows a little cry. Unfortunately, when you've got a child with adhd, life's really hard, like motivating them. Um, people have this assumption that kids with ADHD have always on the go and they need to just run around like lunatics. And that happens when they're younger.
But when they get older, they're not very hyperactive. And they might have a lot going on in their brain, but actually she comes home from school and she crashes, you know, so I've got this kid lying on the bed, staring at her phone, and I'm like, this is not what I signed up for.
And then the, the difficult kid takes over and the other two kind of get forgotten a bit.
It's always about trying to find a balance. As a parent, I feel like I'm kind of in my groove more now in my forties, and this leads to me having a baby three years ago as well. In my forties, I'm more confident and more myself than I was in my thirties. So I think it all kind of is settling and it's in, I'm in a better place as a parent now.
I'm in my forties. Definitely.
ALFIE& SIENNA: Dad Asks Mums
[00:11:36] Al Booth: YEah, let's talk about that. Let's talk about you being geriatric mum. Well, let's talk about the name, first of all. Why did you choose to, to go under that nom de plume, as they say?
[00:11:45] Lucy Baker: Yeah. Well, it's obviously quite shocking and it attracts attention because it. People know what it means and they're so sort of shocked by the term.
It's like what you were called a geriatric mum. I mean, I was actually called advanced maternal age and I was under consultant care because I was, me and my ancient womb needed looking after me and my geriatric womb . Um, but not when I don't think about that, it's not very nice thought, is it When I found out I was pregnant at 42?
I went on Google, which loads of people do, and it's, you know, pregnant and they're 42. And it was like, risk, risk, risk. I was thinking, oh shit, you know, I'm this older woman, you know, I'm in this risk category, what does that all mean? And one night when I couldn't sleep when I was pregnant, about three months pregnant, I set up a Facebook group and the, and the blog geriatric mom.co uk.
And women just flooded to the group. Women just like me, who were having babies in their forties were really, you know, in a good place. They were confident, contented, and they were having babies in their forties. So what, you know? Yeah. When I found out I was pregnant, lots of people around me said, oh, You're gonna have a baby in your forties, like you're gonna be 47 when the baby starts school.
And I, at that time, when people were saying those things, I completely accepted it. I was like, okay, fine, great. I'm gonna have my third baby and I'm cool about it. I'm fit healthy and I'm gonna enjoy this pregnancy. And that was my attitude. But then when people were saying, well, you're gonna be the oldest mum in the on the school gates, and I was like, okay, well maybe I will be, but actually I don't really care.
[00:13:23] Al Booth: You're talking me into it now I'm gonna go in and say, Kerri, I want a third child. And she'll be going, I've thought about it... no,
[00:13:30] Lucy Baker: BUt my brother's friend just announced he's having his fourth child from a new partner and he's 51, and nobody said a word
[00:13:38] Al Booth: DOesn't happen with men. That's the, that's the thing.
It's like if, if we have a third, and I don't think it's gonna happen just in case my parents are listening cause they're gonna be like, what ?
Um, I think your sperm gets slower. But, you know, I've never been that fit anyway. I don't think my sperms particularly fast. I can't imagine just from a, you know, genetic point of view.
So, and all, all it matters then is, like you say, they've being the oldest dad in the playground or. But again, I'm, I'm terrible at football, so it's never been a thing that, oh, I won't be able to play football. I wouldn't have been able to play football if I had my children when I was 20. Cuz I'm rubbish at football.
[00:14:11] Lucy Baker: It's absolutely hopeless. .
[00:14:13] Al Booth: Yeah. I can sit down and write silly poems with them. I could do that at any age. So, but you're right on the mum. It's, um, you're so positive about it. Were there any concerns you had?
[00:14:23] Lucy Baker: I don't, I nearly said I keep myself young, but that makes me sound like I'm 75 . Yeah, it does. You know, I think my attitudes are young and I feel like I'm, I don't feel like I'm 47 nearly at all, but the only thing I do think of, and I said this to the girls the other day, I said, when Rocky is 20, I'm going to be 63.
And they're like, oh. And it's in my head that I'm gonna be 63. And what can I do about it now? I guess it's more of an incentive in some ways to have a, you know, to keep fit and do all the things you're supposed to do in life and blah, blah, blah, blah. But it, it worries me occasionally, I think, on the positive side, aside from being a geriatric mom, I'm confidence coach, so I help women who don't have confidence to be confident.
And I was a person who had no confidence whatsoever for years. So when I had my first two children, I was in that bracket of, You know, being horrible to myself, not having much confidence, not really knowing where I was going in life and not a confident person. So when I had rocks at 43, I'd worked on all that stuff and I was a much more confident person.
So I've kinda accepted everything in life and I'm cool with it. And I, I think that keeps me younger as well, and I feel like a better parent to him because I'm in a better place.
[00:15:41] Al Booth: Yeah, I think there's a lot in that, isn't there?
[00:15:43] Lucy Baker: You know, it's a, without sounding too cheesy, it's a real blessing to have another baby.
And I think it's, Brilliant and thank God he's quite a chilled out kid now
ALFIE & SIENNA: Daddy's disc of dilemma.
[00:15:59] Al Booth: So on my she wall, I have a round cake base, which is gold and it's got some wooden numbers on which are nicked from one of the kids' games. And I give it a spin and whatever it lands on is a number correlating to a dilemma I talk about with my expert.
Take it away, kids.
SFX: Wheel spinning
Spin it
so it's got a little wooden arrow point into it. I've put a little screw in the middle, but it's not quite in the middle, so whenever I spin it, it always lands between four and five because yeah, it is not centered. It's very poor. There we go. So
[00:16:30] Lucy Baker: IT's four. Yay.
[00:16:36] Al Booth: Now, because I want this to be an open and transparent podcast at all times, I just want to say that the time of recording with Lucy, Kerri, my partner, hadn't turned 40. Whereas now she's very much 40 and she's smashing it and she's amazing. I mean, it probably doesn't make any difference whatsoever, but it just feels right to be open.
Right. Here we go. Daddy's disk of Dilemma.
So here's the dilemma for you. As my partner turns 40, she's gonna love how much I've mentioned that, by the way, in this episode, isn't she? How do I play my part in her being a confident woman as well as celebrating that she's an amazing mummy as well.
[00:17:15] Lucy Baker: It's one person, isn't it? You know, no matter what you're doing in your life, you're still, you're a mum and you are a confident woman, and all those things kind of mush into one.
But I think as a partner, I just think it's always about supporting somebody's choices, isn't it? And that keeps them confident. Actually, the very first few years of being a mom really change how you feel about yourself as a woman. You know, adding all that stuff into your life that was never there before, changes so much.
I mean, I, I know never was a confident person in those years anyway, but being a parent, it was like, whoa. what has happened? You know, you, your body changes, your socializing, changes, your friendship groups change, all sorts of things. But luckily my partner Dan, has always just let me get on with what I want to get on with.
He's just always been supportive If I want to just go and do something, he's like, yeah, cool. I think that's how you support somebody in your life to be confident, to remain this kind of confident person. Yeah. I think it's really important to talk and actually me and my husband just not great at it at the moment cause there's so much going on in our house that we forget to talk.
[00:18:20] Al Booth: The thing is, I'm, what I'm always very aware of is, saying, "Oh, you're a brilliant mum? I, I love being a parent with you and you're a great mummy. And, but also the four years we were together before we had our son, which is like, you know, you're a great womanyou are, you know, all the, all those things as well.
It's kind of molding the two in, isn't it?
[00:18:36] Lucy Baker: It is. And sometimes you don't feel like a great mum. You know, this kind of mum guilt that walks around with me a lot of the time, it's sort of heavy sometimes, you know, I've shouting at my kids and I've thrown her into school and then I'm like, oh god. And I have, I carry that weight of guilt around me a lot, but I make sure I talk to my child about that and we kind of iron it all out and you know, I'll talk to Dan about that as well.
But I wonder whether. Men have a A man guilt. A dad guilt. That is one of my questions. So I'm gonna come to that.
[00:19:04] Al Booth: Don't ruin the format.
*LAUGHTER*
MUSIC
The podcast is obviously called Dad Asks Mums, but what is the one thing you as a mum would like to ask me as a dad?
[00:19:15] Lucy Baker: So the first one was, do you think you comprehend the day-to-day? Grind of being a mom, you know, at some point in the day, I'm already planning the evening meal, you know, what's in the fridge, what can I cook, what have they got for lunch?
All of that stuff. As well as all the school admin. I'm constantly on my phone, writing to the school, doing something, filling in a form, checking all of that stuff, and it has become completely my role. Do you as a dad understand the weight of that and actually gets more and more as your kids get older?
[00:19:48] Al Booth: Right. I'm gonna give an answer now, which I know that every mom listening is gonna go and some dads are gonna go, no, no, no. My answer is Kerri loves that side of stuff, . And this is like, "she doesn't now al no."
I'm the creative one all over the place. And, and that's what she says. You are always the one who just, like, your main focus is making them laugh.
Mine is making them, keeping them alive.
[00:20:09] Lucy Baker: Yeah. quite a big job. That .
[00:20:13] Al Booth: Yeah. I, you know, I think that's equal, but.
[00:20:15] Lucy Baker: So she went on holiday? Yeah. Gave you no instructions at all. Would you be fine?
[00:20:21] Al Booth: I went away with the kids for four days at the weekend and, um, you know, I know how to dress them and I know how to feed them, and I know, you know, they need to go to bed at this time, and that's a bit out the window at the moment anyway, but we're trying on that.
So, yeah, I, I think if Kerri went away, I would know what time to get them to school and nursery. Oh, Monday is trouser day. Tuesday's, PE Wednesday's, yoga Thursday's, trousers Friday's more pe. But they've changed it. They've dropped the yoga just to, cuz they knew we were gonna do this podcast and you were gonna test me
So Wednesday is no longer yoga. It's school Trouser day. Yes.
[00:20:55] Lucy Baker: God, you are on it. Yeah. I love it because I recently, I went to Ibiza with my sister for a well earned break. I got everything sorted . I did a big online shop. I ironed things. I got things ready, da da da da off. I went on holiday. He brought his mum and dad in
Do men need another woman in the house? I'm gonna be away for that long. Do they need. That maternal figure around, I mean, he's working full-time, he's got a busy job. But no, I dunno whether I'm torn between, that's a sign of weakness or great that he's getting support because why not? You need a, a village, you know, you need families around you to help you bring up your own children.
Maybe I'm a bit stubborn and I'm like, I can do it or by myself, I dunno. But I'm like, you know, and or yeah. So I just wonder, and I say to him, who's. Rocky's nursery school teacher, and he's like, um, so I just wonder whether it's a man thing.
Or whether it's checking out because I'm so invested and checked in on all of that stuff.
[00:21:59] Al Booth: There could be that element, you know.
[00:22:00] Lucy Baker: My sister said, Years ago, and I think she's right, that women tend to, this is not all but tend to start those routines with babies. They start all those processes so they pretty much know how it all goes, which is why we end up doing it all. Mm-hmm. You know, I'm not saying Dan doesn't do anything cuz he does do loads of school runs and all sort, you know, but I have to kind of just organize him as well.
Do men know how to read the room?
[00:22:26] Al Booth: Oh, Right. Okay. Yeah. In that case, now you've mentioned all that stuff. Yeah, no, absolutely. I, I, I think I've still got on my phone in my notes. First time Kerry went back to work or went to meet your friend after Alfie was born, and I've got the list of what time to feed, how much milk, blah, blah, blah.
And I'm very aware when I talk about things like this that, you know, there are families of, of two dads who obviously, you know, do it all and, and know. So it's not just a woman versus man thing. No. Exactly. But it's, um, yeah, I think it can sometimes just for you, that's the thing. I think as a dad you get a choice.
How much you see and think, right. I need to be a part of this, and how much you can go, well, it'll get done, you know? Yeah. Kerri always says, all right, I need to lay the uniform out. And I must admit, yeah, I do let her do that and that's the wrong word to use and I should just go, I'll get the uniform, but then I take them to school every morning and you know, and I'll drive to take Sienna to nursery or to her Nans who, who has her a couple morning. In my head, that's the compromise.
ALFIE: Daddy Is a bum cake.
[00:23:25] Lucy Baker: My other question for you, actually, when your partner first became a mum, you know, with a birth and the gory bits and the looking shit and the late nights and the, you know, up five times a night and wiping nappies and all that, how did your view of her change?
[00:23:40] Al Booth: Oh, it, I, it just, Absolute admiration. Just complete admiration and love. I'm gonna get really emotional now, . Aw, good. I think, I think about my kids being young. I don't really think about Kerri in that scenario, but yeah, just God, just absolutely. Um, oh, I didn't expect that to happen. . Um, yeah, just seeing her, for both of them, just everything she went through to give birth was just incredible.
[00:24:06] Lucy Baker: Ah, it's given me goose pimples that.
[00:24:08] Al Booth: Yeah, just watching her having to go through and you are kind of there trying to. Do you a bit as a dad, which is like, you're being brilliant and you're being amazing, but you never know if...
[00:24:16] Lucy Baker: YOu've got an awkward role in those situations, haven't you? Because it's a bit like, what can I do?
Can I do anything?
[00:24:22] Al Booth: Yeah. I mean, there were little bits, Alfie's blood pressure dropped cuz they, because, um, Kerri had an epidural for both of them. The monitor went down and nurses came, and doctors came in. But so my role there was just to be calm and say to Kerri, it's okay. They're just trying, they're changing the wires, it's fine.
But as Kerri says, no, I know your face was white and scared . So you were saying these words, but I knew.
I think as the person,
[00:24:42] Lucy Baker: you know, when you are, when you are the one giving birth, you're so sort of in the weird zone and Kerri will probably identify with this. You don't really. It is really hard to kind of know what's going on in a way.
[00:24:52] Al Booth: Well, that's it.
[00:24:53] Lucy Baker: You know, birth is te terribly hard in some situations, but as the partner, it's a bit like, God, what is going on? Like, you know, and it's meant to be this beautiful, wonderful occasion, and it's not. It's not. It's very messy. I mean, with Nancy, my first baby, I was vomiting every two minutes. I had an epidural as well, so I'd completely identify with Kerri .
And then afterwards you have to have a catheter in so you're weeing into a bag and it's like, this isn't very glamorous,
[00:25:20] Al Booth: You've just reminded me of something then. There's a photo. So Kerri had a catheter in the second one. She's, I just wanna get out of the, you know, the little thing where they put the curtain round. I just went, go and have a walk.
But she had the catheter, so I went and found a Sainsbury's bag that I'd bought and just emptied it. We had some food in, emptied the snacks out and just put the catheter. So Kerri's walking round with this bag. just like in a nighty.
But the gory bits are just part of it. Cuz I was going, you know, down to the business end as they call it, um, and I could see like Alfie's head coming out and then he'd go back up and he'd come out and he would go back up and. But it's just incredible. I didn't wanna miss that at all.
And it, and you know, if you are in that situation and you are seeing a woman as a sexual being, then you are quite, and this is the only swear on this podcast, fucked up ,um, cause she's given birth to your child and it's not a sexual thing.
It's this amazing experience. And then afterwards, yeah, of course, you know, she looked tired and exhausted because she's had a human living in her for nine months. And then sex obviously wasn't, wasn't in the forefront of my mind for... at least a couple of days after that.
[00:26:28] Lucy Baker: Yeah. , no, God don't even go there.
Somebody said to me, it takes a full year for your body to recover. You know all the muscles to go back. Cause your ribs, if you think about your ribs are stretched right out. They've gotta go back the muscles around them and also they do liken it to being in an actual car crash. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I remember Dan's mum and dad came around the very day we got home after having our firstborn.
And then I realized when I had my third child that nobody was gonna come around for a week. You know, somebody coming through the door and you've just got home from hospital, there's an airplane again. Um, was truly hideous. I mean, I dunno if you've been through similar, but you know, people coming through with flowers and chocolates and you're just thinking, go away.
[00:27:15] Al Booth: See, this is the other thing. If I have a third, there's so much that I've learned that I'll go, ah, people will build shrines to me cuz I'll be so knowledgeable.
[00:27:23] Lucy Baker: I think you learn where to put your boundaries in. Yeah. And going back to this geriatric mum thing, I was so hot on trying to help other people to not judge other mums.
You know, going back to some of the reasons why people have babies older, you know, one lady had, um, her partner had died and then she met somebody else. You know, people said to me, was it i v f? Was it a mistake? But the other real reasons are choice, not feeling ready, not feeling maybe mentally prepared, not having the right partner, uh, not having enough money, you know, all sorts of reasons.
But the one when the lady told me her partner had died and they hadn't managed to have children, and then she met someone else, I was like, you know, we don't know what's going on in other people's lives. And parenting is so judged if you're, if you're doing it verbally or just inside your own. Head a lot.
We judge other people and their parenting choices all the time. And actually, who cares?
[00:28:18] Al Booth: Yeah. Who's getting it right?
[00:28:19] Lucy Baker: You know.
[00:28:20] Al Booth: WHo are we holding the, the torch up to to say, right, you've got it. Right. We need to be like no one. There's not one person.
[00:28:26] Lucy Baker: No. And I think these conversations that we are having are really important because the knowledge and the learning that actually we're all just bloody bumbling around trying to make decisions that are okay. Maybe learning from our own childhoods, learning from our mistakes, trying not to feel too guilty, getting kids to school on time. You know, it is just a myriad of things to think about as a parent, and actually most people are just trying to do their best.
[00:28:50] Al Booth: We're all just trying to walk each other home. Which is so true, isn't it? We should all just be like holding hands and just trying to get to wherever we think we need to be.
[00:28:58] Lucy Baker: It's funny, isn't it, that you are asking other moms about, you know, stuff and obviously you're married to a woman, but you know, there's so much you can learn around your own.
Situation that can help you in your life. And it's like, you know, if I, if I was to speak to loads of other dads about some of the things that Dan's going through, I think that would be really helpful for me as well. You know, the idea that you are doing this to open up those conversations around some of the things you might not always talk to your own partner about.
I think it's really interesting, isn't it?
[00:29:27] Al Booth: R ight. Speaking of which, what is the one question that you would've hoped as a dad, I would ask you as a mum?
[00:29:34] Lucy Baker: You know, there's so many things that I do as a mother where I'm, I'm kinda tuning into my kids' mental health, and I'm trying to make sure that they're safe and that I know all about their friends.
And I just think the mother generally is so vast. It's a heavy load sometimes, and. Sometimes I just want to be able to walk away and have some time for myself, but then I don't even feel like I do get that because I'm always switched on to motherhood. You know, and I sort of touched on this earlier, but I wonder whether men really do understand what that load is like.
In my experience, men are in the moment just doing what needs to be done there and then. Whereas I'm casting my mind ahead to the next six months, the next year for my kids.
[00:30:12] Al Booth: Yes, that's definitely the case with Kerri and and Sienna's Nursery.
[00:30:16] Lucy Baker: But luckily I've got a partner. You know, there's loads of single moms out there who don't have that support, and you don't always have that person to come in and do that.
I'm gonna take over thing. You know, there's the lovely bits that balance all that out. My husband and I have this joke sometimes. Look at our watch at 6:00 PM we're like right now. The day starts.
SIENNA: Let's sing a song for bed
[00:30:40] Al Booth: I always like to try and finish with a song that you would sing your children as you get them to bed. There's a song called, uh, in This Friendly, friendly World by Fabio, and I sing that to Sienna every night since she was born. And The Rainbow Connection by the Muppets.
[00:30:56] Lucy Baker: I do a little song, I make It is two songs blended and it's like a lullaby.
Obviously. Don't do that for the 12 year old now.
Go to sleep. Little rocky, you're being a good boy today. And then I sing. You've painted a picture and seen a donkey or whatever. Then we sing lavender, blue. It's like a remix. It mixes into lavender, blue, lavender, blue, dilly, dilly. Do you know that one lavender. And then it, I go night, night, sleep tight mind the bedbugs don't bite. And if they do squeeze them tight and they won't come back another night. And my mom sang that to us. Every single night and now I do it to my children.
[00:31:39] Al Booth: Oh, that's lovely.
[00:31:40] Lucy Baker: Night, night sleep type mind the bedbugs don't bite. And if they do squeeze them tight and they won't come back another night.
My mega mix with that poem, bedbugs on the o uh, end, which is quite weird cause bedbugs are awful little things. But, um,
[00:31:53] Al Booth: I don't wanna say that I did think if I said oh bedbugs are gonna bite you,
[00:31:56] Lucy Baker: but somebody mentioned it a few years ago. I was like, they said that's quite weird actually. Beds are awful and my children are subjected to that most nights.
So yes.
ALFIE: Bye, Bye.
[00:32:16] Al Booth: Thank you so much. Lucy Baker, a k a, the geriatric mum. I love that chat. Do you know what I loved about that? It was just the, it was just the openness of, of understanding the mum's workload. I'll be honest with you, when, when we both had children, when Alfie was born for five, Well, getting off for six years ago now, um, I kind of, I, I really wanted to be equal carry and do everything equally and I still do, but my intentions and my doing when Alfie was born may have lapsed somewhat now.
And yeah, it's great to have these conversations cuz I can go, am I doing as much as I should be? But I dunno. Kerri's gonna find things really suspicious cuz after each recording I go in the house and she's like, uh, yeah. You've done an episode again, haven't you? Because I'm like, Hey, should we just, uh, sit down and how can I be better?
You can find Lucy on Twitter and Instagram at geriatric underscore mum also see her work at She Coaches Confidence. Dot com.
IF you'd like to be on the show, you can drop me a message on Twitter and Instagram at Dad asks Mums also, if you wanna hear other episodes or even leave a review if you want.
I know you're very busy, you don't always have the time to do that. I get that. Um, my daughter is gonna be here very soon just to tell you how you can do that. But until the next time, thank you so much for listening. I really appreciate you being here, and I'll see you soon.
SIENNA: You can get this wherever you get you're podcast.
Thanks for listening. Come back soon.
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