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Monica H. Kang: What do you do when you walk into a room where you're the only one who looks like you and thinks like you? Shinayeb chan noticed that most of the rooms that she's in, she was the only female or asian person. It didn't feel right and it wasn't right. She was frustrated and felt stuck. And in her pursuit of wanting to find healing, she started investigating and wonder, am I the only one who's feeling this? Turns out shes not. It inspired her to starting her award winning podcast called the Towel of Self confidence where she interviews now over 900 womens around the world who happen to be an asian female, how they found their self confidence in what that journey was like.
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Monica H. Kang: Ive also been on the show and.
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Monica H. Kang: It was a humbling experience to reflect back on my journey and realize how those environmentalists influenced how I think my voice is. It inspired her to write her book that became a Wall Street Journal bestseller called the Tao of Self confidence as well. Sheena is based in Toronto, but travels around the world very frequently to help innovators and others rethink about their stories and how they find their confidence, too. So as we celebrate Asian American Pacific island Heritage Month and asian innovator stories, I'm very excited to invite my friend Sheena here today. You're listening to curious Monica by innovators Box. I'm your host, Monica King, founder and CEO of Innovators Box. Let's dive in.
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Monica H. Kang: I don't know how we already got to maze, but I am so thrilled in celebration of that to have my friend Sheena Yap Chan. You might have heard her, especially if you've been following asian american news. I mean, she has been the host of the towel of self confidence. You want to be able to tune into her episodes because she really dives deep into. In fact, I believe now at this point she has already 900 plus episode. We're going to learn more. How in the world she managed all of that, asking many asian american females, how in the world do you gain confidence? Well, that, of course, inspired her to also be the author of the book the towel of self confidence that came out in 2023. You want to check that out, too. Already a bestseller and recognized.
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Sheena Yap Chan: And in fact, she is another one.
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Monica H. Kang: Coming out in 2025 where you want to make sure you grab her contacts so that way you can get the book with you. But I went on to say, we have a lot to dive in. And the first question I really want to dive in with her is like, why self confidence and highlight female API story. So Shannon please.
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Sheena Yap Chan: First off, Monica, thank you so much for having me on the show today. And happy Aapi month to everyone out there. You know, the work that I do really stemmed from my upbringing. Growing up in Canada in the early nineties, I never saw anybody in the media that looked like me. So I was always ashamed of being asian. I wanted to have blonde hair and blue eyes to feel more accepted or to feel more beautiful. And it wasn't until my twenties where I dyed my hair back from blonde to my original hair color, where I finally embraced culture. And in 2015, as I was dealing with my own confidence issues, I was really trying to find resources that cater to asian women. And I couldn't find any, right. I thought maybe something was wrong with me. I was the only one dealing with this.
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Sheena Yap Chan: And I realized, culturally, we're not told to talk about our. Our feelings, what we're going through, our challenges. So I decided to start my podcast, the town of self confidence, where I interviewed asian women about their journey to self. And it's like you mentioned, over 900 episodes. I don't know how I do it either. I take a lot of breaks, that's for sure. But really, I just. I wanted to have this as a number one representation, because representation is very important to me to showcase all these amazing asian women from around the world, from different backgrounds, different careers, showing you what it takes to build confidence, right. And also have it as a support system. You know, being able to interview so many amazing women, even like yourself. Monica, you are a guest on the show.
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Sheena Yap Chan: It made me realize I wasn't the only one who was dealing with these issues. A lot of us do. It's just we don't talk about it. And this is why having the difficult conversations is very important. So we can find ways to move forward and show up as our best self.
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Monica H. Kang: So this is now the version you get to know about Sheena of all the research she has done. But I want to circle back to way back in the beginning, because as our innovators know, one of the things that is hard as an innovator is to dark and Sheena. So if you can bring us back, way down the memory lane when you first start thought of this, why podcasts? Why you, like, what inspired you? I know one of it was because there was a gap. But how did you know? Like, did you already know that one day I'm gonna write a book. One day I want to, like, do this, to, like, do 900,000 plus episodes to research, like, did you see that coming all the way from the beginning. I'm curious, like, what was that first initial start that helped? You know, maybe.
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Sheena Yap Chan: Yeah, I mean, I've always wanted to create a platform to elevate women, and especially asian women, just because there wasn't a lot of representation out there. And, you know, when I saw what a podcast was, I thought that made so much sense, really. You can download this audio anytime you wanted to. You can listen to it at any given moment. You don't really have to kind of pay attention. Like, you know, it's there, but not there. And people can still listen to it when they're busy, especially moms, when they're, you know, giving their kids a bath or, like, prepping their meals or, like, getting their school ready. Like, you know, they can just have this in the background and have that quick fix for the day. And so starting was hard, of course.
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Sheena Yap Chan: Like anything, when you start something new, you're gonna overthink, you're gonna procrastinate, you're gonna doubt yourself. And I was the same way. Especially in 2015, there was hardly any asian people podcasting. In fact, I saw one asian guy podcasting about the asian american community or the API community. And because I saw him do it, I said, okay, if he's doing it, then I'm going to do it. And so this is why representation is so important. Sometimes it just takes one person to show you the way, and you can go out there and just make things happen. This is why I'm very passionate about creating representation, because it helps our current and future generations to show them what is possible.
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Monica H. Kang: That is so important. And as folks are listening in this month, one of the things I love is that we have a lot of diverse fans and community members. And so whether this is your first time learning about AAPi or veteran, you're all here for the right reason. I think a reminder of that, your voice, whatever that version is important. I like to geek out on detail. So one thing I am curious is, like, how did you come up with the name the Tao of self confidence? Because to your point, even though you have that clarity, you could have named it something different. You could have said API female stories. I don't know why that name. How did you know self confidence was theme you wanted to explore?
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Sheena Yap Chan: Yeah, I mean, funny story self.
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Monica H. Kang: We like funny stories. Please share.
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Sheena Yap Chan: When I first started my podcast and trying to figure out a name, I was trying to be clever, because I thought being clever is what draws the crowd in, right? And so I initially wanted to name it the stripper. And have a tagline to strip your limiting beliefs away.
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Monica H. Kang: Wow. Yeah.
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Sheena Yap Chan: And then I hired a graphic designer to create the graphic to have, and it was literally a silhouette of a stripper with a whip. And thank God I was in this. In this mastermind of podcasters, of seasoned podcasters. So when I showed them the artwork, they were like, oh, I don't think you'll have the right audience. I think you're gonna attract the wrong people. Like, nine out of ten said it wasn't good. So a part of me was like, oh, my God, if I can't even get the name right, how am I going to get the show right? So sometimes I had to take a step back and get clear. And my friend helped me also get clear. You know, she's a spiritual healer. She was like, there's going to be a word in there that starts with the letter C.
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Sheena Yap Chan: I was like, okay, let her see. So I was scouring through, like, apple. Apple iTunes, because there was no Apple podcast back, still apple iTunes. And I saw a lot of. A lot of shows that said the art of the art. And I was like, okay, I could do that. The art of. But I didn't want to be the next person to say the art of. Right. Because there were so many. And then I saw Tao and what it meant, right. Like, especially has an asian adaptation to it. Like, would you share more?
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Monica H. Kang: Yeah.
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Sheena Yap Chan: Yeah.
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Monica H. Kang: Why Tao? What is Tao?
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Sheena Yap Chan: Yeah. So Tao means the way, right? So I was like, oh, I like that. The way to self confidence, right? Because there's no one way of building it. We're all different. You know, what may work for me might not work for you. And so being able to share these different stories shows you the way to self confidence can be this or the way to self confidence can be that. And so also being able to find the word confidence, I was like, okay, that's it. That's how self confidence. And then I hired the same person to redo it again. You know, like, it's, you know, a photo of an asian woman, an office suit, and then she has a cape in the.
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Monica H. Kang: Which is amazing. You want to check it out?
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Sheena Yap Chan: Yeah, yeah. Which is really powerful. And then when I shared that, everyone, nine out of ten, loved it. So that's how the name came about. I love it.
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Monica H. Kang: I think one of the things you're sharing in that story is just how important it is to get customer feedback, one mistakes and make mistakes. And I appreciate you sharing, because I actually did not know. As Sheena mentioned, I had the honor of being in her early, one of the early guests on our podcast. And I appreciated the vulnerable questions. I think you were one of my first interviewer who really pushed me to, like, share something I've never shared online. So if you all check back, I don't know what I said last time, but the episodes are still out there. And in fact, you have many more that you can learn from.
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Monica H. Kang: But given that, you know, one of the things that I love to think as a host as well is just how much more you get to also be on the learning seat. And so 900 plus is a lot. So curious. What are the things? Well, first different legs, but first about confidence and AAPI, female voices, representation and all of that you care. Was there a surprise that you learned that you didn't expect to learn versus when you first started?
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Sheena Yap Chan: I think it's just learning that we all go through the similar situations, we all go through these repressed feelings that it's hard to share out to maybe our society, our family and friends, because, you know, deem, like, we're seen as weak. So. So being able to. And being able to realize that I wasn't the only one that made me feel a lot better. Like, I didn't realize I wasn't. I felt like I wasn't crazy. Like, I wasn't crazy. Like, this is. This is normal. Like, people feel this way, you know, and. And I realized because I didn't feel alone, it was easier for me to find resources to help me get through it. Right. That was one thing. I mean, I think the fact that people were just so vulnerable was just really eye opening.
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Sheena Yap Chan: You know, some of them were like, this is the first time I've ever shared this to every. Anybody. And I was like, oh, wow, you know, that's amazing. Like, I appreciate that, considering we just met online and you don't really know who I am. But you were. You're able to share the most vulnerable parts of your story in the podcast that people can resonate. And so I'm always grateful for all the things that, you know, all the women who share their story who be able to be vulnerable, because being vulnerable is not easy, right? Especially when you grow up in a culture where you can't show emotion. You have to save face. You always have to be the perfect daughter, wife, or mother, etcetera, or the perfect woman. And it's really unattainable. Right?
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Sheena Yap Chan: And then here we see all these amazing women who have nine figure businesses, who have 2 million followers on Instagram be able to share their vulnerabilities and what they've been through. And it's just so refreshing, right? Especially in this world of social media. We, you know, we live in a world of filters and editing and, like, you know, we just need something authentic.
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Monica H. Kang: And speaking of authentic, I'm curious if you can also bring us behind the scene of all your development work. In addition to that, you have wrote your bestseller book. That is also the title, the Tao of self confidence. And you have another one coming out. How do you make time to do all of that? Because for those who don't know, if you're just listening, we love you. But one of the things you might not know is that it's actually a lot of work for podcasts and writing. And if you do follow Sheena, and I recommend you do, she produces a lot of content, a lot of writing, Instagram, LinkedIn, tons of news. I think keep track of more AapI news from her and a few others as well.
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Monica H. Kang: So my authentic question back to you on top of that is, how do you manage all of it? Because it seems like a lot of work. And is there any new tips and tricks that you've learned over the years that you can share, maybe with some of our innovators?
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Sheena Yap Chan: Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think one of the most important things to know is that I love doing what I'm doing. So sometimes it doesn't feel like work and every person's different, right? I mean, I don't have kids. I'm not married. So, of course, like, talking to a mom with three. Three children is like. Doesn't make sense.
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Monica H. Kang: Make sense.
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Sheena Yap Chan: She has three kids to take care of. And I think, you know, we just find our own little routine, right? If you can't post content every single day, maybe twice a week, right. You can just start small and kind of start working your way up. It's better than not putting anything at all. You know, if you see me on social media, I'm very. I'm very passionate about helping women learn to self promote, because self promotion is something that most women have a hard time with. Right. Tons of questions about self promotion. It's like, you know, I get questions like, how much is too much? Are you. What if you sound arrogant? What if people make fun of you? And I'm like, people are gonna make fun of you regardless of what you do. And if they do, those aren't your people, right?
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Sheena Yap Chan: And when it comes to how many, how much is too much? I honestly have no idea. You know, I. What I say is, if you're not sick of your face yet. You're not doing it right. Because if you look at singers, if they have a number one hit song, they're gonna sing it nonstop to the point where they hate singing their own song. Do it because it's a money maker. And so you have to see it that way. And especially, like, the Barbie movie last year, made a billion dollars. First movie directed by a woman to hit a billion dollar mark. Imagine how much promotion happened, right? You couldn't go without the month of July with seeing the color pink or every single company in the world collaborating with Barbie.
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Sheena Yap Chan: Whether it was Xbox or Airbnb, there was, like, a Barbie line from every single company. So I always want to show women, like, it's okay, right? You know, this comes from, like, society telling us it's unladylike, but, like, really, who created that? Probably a man, right? Just say, like, it's unladylike to do that. But for me, it's like, no, it's not. I mean, especially if you have a product or service that's gonna help someone for the better. You share it out, right? You just share it out. And if people say something, just ignore them. I know it's easier said than done. Believe me, I've been there. I know what it's like. I know it can get daunting. But when you can learn to focus on the positive versus the negative, you know, you'll move forward.
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Monica H. Kang: So important, again, for those who, as you might have caught the nuggets, how important? The way you think and engage in knowing that it's one step at a time. Speaking of which, that requires a lot of writing and reflecting and preparing. So I'm curious, like, Michina, is writing something, a medium that you like doing? Did you already know that you loved writing before? And was it something that you rather discovered later on?
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Sheena Yap Chan: To be honest, I wasn't born a writer. In fact, you know, grammar's still not my strong suit. Even if I post stuff on social media, my sister's always like, how did you become a writer? Like, look at what you're writing. It doesn't make sense. Like, you missed a spot here. I was like, okay, well, I can always edit it and do it later, right? So I make a ton of mistakes still, even until now. And so even coming to Canada, like, I had to take English classes as a second language in elementary school because I couldn't put sentences together. And when I did, it didn't make sense. So writing was definitely not something I thought I ever wanted like, when there was, like, English class or writing class or in high school, I was like, I hated it. It fan. No.
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Sheena Yap Chan: And for the longest time, I just thought I wasn't a writer, and I realized that, you know. Right. There's no one way of writing. And I think when it comes to writing, it's writing from the heart. Writing from your authentic self is really important. And, yeah, maybe that sounds cliche, or you've heard that so many times, but in all honesty, I just. I talk like I write. Even my friends told me, like, my best friends, when they read the book, the towel of self confidence, they're like, oh, my God, I could hear your voice, like, saying this as I'm reading this, like, that's. And that, like, that was the best feedback I got, that it. That it sounds like me. Right? And they can imagine me saying it because, of course, we want to be authentic. We want to be vulnerable.
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Sheena Yap Chan: We want to be able to say things that we do in our own voice, and it's not always easy. So, yeah, I never thought I was going to be a writer. You know, when this opportunity came out, came about in 2022, I almost hesitated, because I was like, who am I to write a book about asian women leadership? Like, what. What experiences do I have? And so. So if it wasn't for another lady who told me, just do it. I said, okay, I'm gonna do this. I'm just gonna go out there and write it. And in fact, I only had, like, less than three months to write this book because it was supposed to come out last.
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Monica H. Kang: Yeah.
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Sheena Yap Chan: Cause it came out last May, and so I just made it happen. Right. I think sometimes having a deadline is a good thing. That's what I say. Because they're not in deadline, you're not gonna do it. But when you have a tight deadline, you're like, okay, then you'll make time for it, right? You're going to make time to write this because there's a deadline, and if you don't hit the deadline, it's on you. Right. So. So I just made it happen. I would spend weekends at the coffee shop to write it. And, you know, I started with no clue what I was going to write. Like, I just had an outline. I sent it over to Wiley, and then they gave me the green light. And then the day after, I was like, okay, what am I going to write about?
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Sheena Yap Chan: I have an outline, but, like, it's just a chapter outline. I don't really have an outline for each chapter. And it just kept writing as I went along, did it. And so, you know, also being able to. I was being able to have it in batches made it help, too. Like, I didn't have to write the whole thing at once. I could, like, write the first part in a month, and then the next month, I'll write the second part and the last part in the last month. So doing it in batches is also very important because, you know, it makes a difference when you have to, like, run a 50,000 word book versus, like, okay, I just need to write like, 15,000. 15,000 is good. And then when you, like, it's not as big as 50,000.
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Sheena Yap Chan: So having it in batches does make a big difference. So, yeah, I mean, deadlines are really great. Having accountability is really important. And just, you know, you just. I think if. If you have this desire to do it, you're going to do it right. And I know sometimes it's not easy. I guess women, I get it. Women do ten times more things than men, right? When men. When there's men out there who say they have 8 hours of writing, women are like, yeah, I wish I had 1 hour of writing, right? Because you're taking care of kids, you're doing chores, you're doing all kinds of stuff, right? Like, you're basically the caretaker for every single person, including outside family members. So that it's. So I understand that sometimes time is not on your side, but if we can.
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Sheena Yap Chan: If we really want something to happen, we will make it happen. That I do know as women, like, one thing I know, especially married women, if they want something from their husband, they're gonna. They're gonna give you. They're gonna have a million reasons why they need it to the point where.
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Monica H. Kang: They just get it.
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Sheena Yap Chan: That I do know.
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Monica H. Kang: We love all the husbands out there. Thank you for being great, part one. Well, no, thank you so much for sharing that. There's so many gems of wisdom, and just to piggyback on a few, that was, you know, just want to emphasize again for our listeners is just reminder that you might not know your best strengths. So I, again, thank you for your humble sharing that you didn't know writing was a strength of yours. And yet it's, the very way of how you communicate authentically is the way it's resonating. And then knowing that even at the very moment when you have the opportunity, you took a step back and like, wait, is it right? I think often we feel like, no, I thought everything you already knew, you're talking about confidence. We thought you already confidently knew, and I appreciate you humbly sharing that.
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Monica H. Kang: It's a journey that you're also continuing to go into. Most importantly, did I catch it right that now, in 2024, may, this is a one year anniversary for your congratulations.
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Sheena Yap Chan: It's so crazy. Like, who would have thought I would have a out? And, yeah, you're right. Just because I talk about confidence and my expert topic is confidence and leadership. I mean, talking about it is easy. Doing it is a whole other story.
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Monica H. Kang: You know, you're always gonna have new.
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Sheena Yap Chan: Challenges that's gonna arise. You know, when you start something new, like, all those feelings come up again. Am I gonna do it? This is gonna work? Am I gonna be a failure? What if people laugh at me? Like, all those things will always come up, right? Even. Even when I go into an interview or a speaking engagement, I still get nervous. Like, I still, like, want to make sure I give the best, you know, interview or best. Best speech out there so that, you know, people can walk away with something that they can use. And so, you know, just because I talk about it doesn't mean that I don't go through it. I go through it all the time, and I think, you know, it's.
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Monica H. Kang: It's.
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Sheena Yap Chan: It doesn't make sense for someone who's 100% confident all the time. That's just me, because there's days where I'm, like, -10% confident, or there's just days where I just want to hide from the world and, like, watch k drama all day and, like, eat junk food, because that's.
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Monica H. Kang: Thank you for all the k dramas and junk food out there, right?
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Sheena Yap Chan: Because. Because we're gonna have good and bad days. And the only difference is that, like, the bad days, we know how to push through. We know that it's gonna happen. We have the tools and resources to pick ourselves, so, yeah, we can wallow in it for a little bit. I need who I mean, I do still. I mean, I'll eat my feelings when I get rejected for something. Then I pick myself back up, and I said. And I tell myself, you know, I've been through worse. I can move through it and just, you know, keep moving forward, and I don't do this alone. You know, community is very important. I'm very, like, if you see me, I'm all about community. I'm all about, you know, collaboration is key, doing things together. I don't believe in self made, because nothing is self made.
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Sheena Yap Chan: Everything takes someone either to buy your product, to promote you, to talk about you to whip out their credit card in order for you to make that income, the life that you want. So every, for me, everything is community made. I don't think there's such a thing as self made in my opinion. I love it.
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Monica H. Kang: It's so important. I think often when we see somebody expert, we assume, oh, this person has everything figured out and can always be in that gem. And I share that back with creativity as well. Some days I feel creative and some days I don't. And I feel at times even worse when I don't feel creative because I feel like I have to be in that pressure often almost makes it feel worse. And I appreciate your honesty as well to know that is something called being a normal human being. And it goes to the bigger picture I know you advocate for, which is stopping perfectionism, stopping the neuroperfect image.
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Monica H. Kang: And so to your point, seeing how you've kind of described here, the confidence, seeing as a skill set, we have a lot of leaders, entrepreneurs, different audiences who tune in, always looking to upskill, especially at the time of AI growing world, and also how the workplace has changed so much. I'm curious, one, I guess, first part, quick insight, what's at least one way, when you know, you feel down, how do you get back yourself? Get yourself back up with your confidence. And then I'll ask a second after that to not overwhelm.
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Sheena Yap Chan: Yeah, for sure. I mean, that's a great question. And this is why I love reading other people's stories who have been in a similar situation. Like, like, I love listening to historic story because he has the biggest comeback story in America or in the world, I think. And just when I hear what struggles.
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Monica H. Kang: He went through, and for those, sorry, for those who don't know him, could you give a little shout out who he is?
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Sheena Yap Chan: Yes, for sure. So he was in the movie everything everywhere all at once. He won best supporting actor. He's also in two famous movies, Indiana Jones and the Goonies. And so every time I see him, it actually just pumps me up knowing, okay, he went through a lot to get to where he is today, not having an acting job for over 20 years. And even when he filmed everything everywhere all at once, it was during the beginning of the pandemic. So he didn't have a job for a year, lost his health insurance, and didn't even know what was going to happen. The only thing he asked his agent at the time was, am I at least good at this movie? And the agent's like, yeah, you have nothing to worry about. And then now, you know, he's just everywhere.
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Sheena Yap Chan: And that's why representation is so important. You know, like, he got back into acting because he saw crazy rich Asians and got FoMO and decided to get back into acting. And that's why I'm always advocating for more representation, to showcase more asian women who are amazing. We're powerful or strong and confident because those are the type of women we'd want to see, right? We want to see and show us what's possible. So, yeah, for me, I love reading other people's stories, especially, like, you know, the hero's journey type of stories, because, I mean, those are the stories that are actually relatable, right? Because we, like I mentioned, we go through downtimes. We go through, like, depression. We go through, like, good and bad days. You know, life is a roller coaster, but how do we navigate that? So love it.
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Monica H. Kang: So important. And to build on that for leaders out there, like, okay, great, Monica, shiny. I'm excited. I'm pumped up. How can I upskill. So in addition to what you shared, other than great, read more, learn more, check out our podcast and these stories. Are there ways that you recommend leaders in how they can upskill, especially knowing that, you know, the way of work has changed so much and is continuing to change.
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Sheena Yap Chan: Yeah, I mean, I think the most important part of everything is taking action, right? We can learn about confidence. We can read about confidence. But if you don't apply the things you learn, then nothing happens, right? Especially in the workplace. I know. It's like the API community. We're not taught to go out there and network or talk to our boss or, like, ask them for coffee or make that relationship with other co workers. For the longest time, we've been told to work hard, put your head down, never make any trouble. But that doesn't really help us. It makes. It actually hurts us because all we're ever seeing is hard working. And I'm not saying you don't put in the work, but you gotta learn to work hard and work smart, right?
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Sheena Yap Chan: Being able to be in front of the people maybe you want a promotion with, right? Just having candid conversations, right. Because the more they see your face, the more they remember you and be like, oh, I remember her. You know, she was really good.
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Monica H. Kang: She's, she.
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Sheena Yap Chan: She would be like a good candidate to be, you know, for that next promotion. You know, just little things like that. And I understand there's still, like, unconscious bias that still happens. But if we don't take these little steps to go out there and do it. Nothing ever changes. Like, a really great example is kidney, right? She was the first woman to get a general manager position in any major sports team. Not first asian woman, first woman, right? She became a general manager for the Miami Marlins. And, you know, in fact, she actually took the Miami Marlins to their first playoffs last year in like 20 years. So she has a really great track record. Any baseball fan who knows her knows that she is awesome. She is phenomenal.
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Sheena Yap Chan: But it took her, you know, she got rejected from five other teams before she even got the position of general manager at Miami, at the Miami Martins. So this is why I'm saying, like, you know, we're not, like, it's still going to take us, still takes work on our part, right, because of the unconscious bias. But she was able to make it happen. She was able to show that she can take this team and bring it to the playoffs. And then even then, she actually just, she left. She left the Miami Marlins team because the franchise decided to hire, like, a president of operations from outside instead of, like, asking her. Because she. She knows her worth, right? She knows she can do the job. And so she was willing to walk away with that.
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Sheena Yap Chan: And leadership, you know, sometimes leadership can look like that, right? Sometimes you have to know your own worth. You know that you are more than capable out there to do something different. And I know that it's not easy when you see, like, well, I'm already at this position. Like, this is probably the best I could ever get. She was like, no, I could do better. There's people out there who want me. I'm just gonna walk away and see what else is out there, right?
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Monica H. Kang: And that is scary.
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Sheena Yap Chan: Of course, it's risky. It's scary. But that being a leader means also taking risk and, like, learning to embrace the outcome or embrace the unknown. I love that.
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Monica H. Kang: And in fact, you're seeing already the ripple effects, right? Like, I don't know her.
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Sheena Yap Chan: Sheena doesn't.
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Monica H. Kang: Unless Sheena, do you know her personally, I wish. We are secret fans behind the scene, but, you know, her stories inspire somewhere far out there. And your leadership stories out there, listeners, as you are thinking about it, you never know who you are inspiring. And so keep in mind, the ripple effect is always further than you think it is. Speaking of which, we are celebration celebrating AAPI Heritage Month. But the little fun fact that you might not know, if you listen carefully, you might have caught Pashina is based in Canada. So one of the fun facts I did wanted to piggyback is if there's any difference among asian American and asian Canadian or, you know, what it means and maybe any other leaders that we can also learn from.
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Sheena Yap Chan: Yeah, I mean, you know, that was.
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Monica H. Kang: A lot of questions. So you can digest one at a time.
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Sheena Yap Chan: Well, well, the month of May in Canada is still Asian Heritage Month, so we still celebrate that in the month of May. I think the difference between, like, Asian Americans and Asian Canadians is there's way more organizations for the API community in America than in Canada, which makes sense because there's ten times more of the population in America than Canada. But when we do have these organizations are made up, it's really special because it's like we just. It feels like we just know each other the minute we, we met. Right. Like, I remember Asian Hustle Network last year had their first networking event. There was about 30 founders that met up and it was just a really great time, and were like, you know, we would love to see more of this happening. This is something that we definitely need in the community.
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Sheena Yap Chan: So that's one thing I really do want to see in Canada, especially like Toronto. Vancouver has the highest asian population. Just to have more organizations out there, kind of like Asian hustle Network or like, you know, just where we can just support each other and just have that camaraderie. But I love being asian canadian. Like, you know, it's different for me. I think it's different. It sets me apart from everybody else and out of that, love Canada. Love that Toronto is a very multicultural city. I love that we can try different foods from all over the world. We also have really good asian food here. Oh, that's what I always say.
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Monica H. Kang: Always important.
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Sheena Yap Chan: Yes. You know, foods are love language. The only thing I don't like is the snow. I try and escape as much as I can.
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Monica H. Kang: Well, if you need to make a quick visit to the other, you're always welcome. And I know you're often in the states. In fact, for many, speaking and collaboration work that you do.
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Sheena Yap Chan: Yeah.
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Monica H. Kang: And building on that note, as I've asked, I'm curious if you can introduce us to new people we should follow and learn from. One of the things I want to highlight through these series of interviews is really amplifying where we learn from. And often, I think, as innovators, even though we want to learn from new perspectives, we might not know where to go. So whether this is for listeners, your first time learning about API communities or veteran, I think we always have more space to learn from others. So if you can shout out maybe three or four names or people you think we should learn don't have to be just female, but maybe asian innovators who happen to be asian.
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Sheena Yap Chan: Yeah, for sure. I mean, of course I'm going to shout out my good friend Jeannie Chang because she's just awesome if you don't know her. She started a platform called Nuna's Nunchi where she utilized K dramas to promote mental health. She also has a book coming out this month on K dramas and mental health. And, you know, she's also started, like, kdrama Tours, which has been blowing up, which. And I just love everything that she's done. I think what she. What she's doing makes so much sense because, I mean, K dramas is like the way of life, right? And just the stories are all relatable, so that's one. Another person is actually a canadian asian colleague. His name is John Wang, and he has a podcast called Big Asian Energy. So just. Just that word is really on.
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Sheena Yap Chan: You know, it just fires me up when I, like, think about it, because we do have that energy. It's just. It's been kept inside us. Cause we've been told never to show it. And, you know, it's time for us to show it. It's time for us to step up. And another one is a cohort that I'm a part of called US PAC wide program. So it's from the US Pan Asian American Chamber of Commerce. They've had their first women's program where we just collaborate, connect with each other. And it's just great to have a group where you can be supported and feel supported and also support one another. It's really important. Like Asian. Asians, we should be okay to ask for help. We should be okay to collaborate, because that's how we can create the changes that we want to see in this role.
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Monica H. Kang: Now back to Jeanne and us. Pac, who is a good friend of ours as well, knew Jeanne way back, way before she started Nuna's nunchin. So it's really exciting to see all the mega growth for fans who have been listening to our shows. You might recognize her early interviews with her in our past season. So check that out. And us pack for those who might not have heard, if you follow me on social media, you might have seen me give a shout out because that was one of the first supplier diversity events, which I do talk about in our other show, dear workplace. So check that out. Where they really advocate for all small, medium sized, you know, color people of color business owners, especially for Asian Americans.
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Monica H. Kang: And that was actually my first entryway because I was proud to also highlight I was the only female out of the seven who finalists who was presenting. I did not win, but I won my first client, which ended up entering me into the whole world of corporate workshop and facilitation world. And so Sheena's right. Like, a lot of what you hear, these names, they're not just like, names that are names. Like, these are real people who are doing the work. So just want a plus one on that. I look forward to learning your new friend to learn more about asian canadian voices. And I love that podcast name, so thank you for sharing that. And of course, everyone's going to also check out your content and work. And I know you have a lot.
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Monica H. Kang: We hinted already earlier that you have a new book coming out 2025. Can we get a little sneak peek?
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Sheena Yap Chan: What's about? Oh, well, I haven't. I have the secret. I have to keep that under wraps. So I think. Okay, yeah, we tried, guys.
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Monica H. Kang: We tried.
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Sheena Yap Chan: It will still be on the topic of confidence. So that's all I'll share right now. But it'll be out, I think, in 2025, early 2025. It might even be ready for pre order. So, you know, just check it out on Amazon or Indigo. There could be a pre order link somewhere already. But, yeah, you know, it's really surreal to think, you know, I was really happy to write one book by Wiley, but then two books is like, wow, right? So it's just really, I'm just really grateful for the opportunity.
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Monica H. Kang: And it speaks, I think, really validation to all the hard work you've done. Because one thing that, as you're hearing this conversation, I hope you all recognize that for Sheena to share everything she's done, it's a lot of work. And as she has already hinted, there is a lot of ups and downs to that journey. I'm curious. We didn't get a chance to talk about this in the earlier, but it kind of ties organically how this connects to your childhood, which is like, is this kind of the journey that you thought you wanted to go when you were young? And if not, why not?
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Sheena Yap Chan: No, I did not think I would be doing. Honestly, I thought I was just going to do a nine to five job, you know, office job, you know, like, basically whatever I was told to do, I never thought I would write not one, but two books beyond stages, being able to do workshops or clients, corporate clients, being able to travel to different places, you know, I never thought this was good, but I'm glad that I even surprised myself. And I bet, like, especially with all.
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Monica H. Kang: The conversations with the community development, the gap of the asian canadian community, I don't know, maybe we're going to see something like that and we know we're going to be like, oh, we know. The founder, Sheena, was here on the show way before she started that. So stay tuned for sure. It's so inspiring to see such a. Just a full energy of creating that you continue to do, but I hope you continue to take care of yourself, too. As you have said, you shared so many gems of wisdom. Any final one last word of wisdom that you would like to share with our innovators out there in how to continue to thrive? Because this place is kind of messy lately.
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Sheena Yap Chan: It is messy. I mean, I think, you know, it's important to just take it one step at a time. It's okay if you don't make big leaps. It's not the end of the world. It's actually the small, actionable daily steps that will yield the big result. It's kind of like if you want to write a book, when you think writing a book, oh, my God, it's so daunting. 50,000 words. How am I gonna get 50,000 words? But if you just told yourself, I'm gonna write a page a day for a full year straight from the beginning to the end, like, you'll have not only one, maybe two books, because you were consistent in writing a page a day. So that's why I say, just take those small, actual daily steps. Learn to celebrate everything you've achieved, no matter how big or small they are.
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Sheena Yap Chan: Because that's how you also build your own confidence and make sure to surround yourself with people who will, you know, constantly lift you up. I think people don't understand how important your surroundings are. Right. And there's some surroundings we can't run away from. So that's why personal development is very important, so we can work on it.
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Monica H. Kang: Very, very true. I think our existing families and built new families that we build throughout our ecosystem is so key. How can people continue to learn from you? I think a few hints we already heard was your social media platforms, your book podcasts. Is there anywhere else that we should also look out for or where you want them to go more to?
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Sheena Yap Chan: Yeah, for sure. They can check out my website, shinayachan.com.
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Monica H. Kang: Put it in the show notes, look for that.
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Sheena Yap Chan: They can order the current book, the Towel of Self Confidence. You can also check out my podcast thetaofselfconfidence.com or you can check past episodes. The podcast is on all major podcast directories so Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Play. You can also check out my social media handles Sheena Yap chan on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, LinkedIn. I really love LinkedIn so feel free to connect with me on that. And if you also on my website you can also get a free self confidence personality test. So you could take that test and you get results right away. If you forgot anything that I said, just google my name sheena yap chan because I'm literally the only sheena yap chan on the Internet. Love it. Love it.
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Monica H. Kang: No Sheena, thank you so much for joining us on the show. This is again Monica at Curious Monica where we interview innovators around the world to learn about how we can tap into our creativity differently. So excited that we have shinayap Chen here today as we celebrate Aapi Heritage month. So check out her, check out ways to connect with her. We're gonna put that in the show notes in reminders again. You can find that in any podcast episode that you are listening to or also at podcast dot innovatorsbox.com or blog dot innovatorsbox.com. And if you can't find it, just also send us a quick email info innovatorsbox.com thank you so much and we look forward to seeing you soon again. Thank you so much for tuning in to another episode at Curious Monica.
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Monica H. Kang: I'm your host and executive director of the show, Monica King, founder and CEO of Innovators Box and Little Love. Shout out to our team who made this show possible for you today. From InnovatorsBox Studios Audio Engineering and producing Sam Lehmart, Audio Engineering assistants Ravi Lad, Website and Marketing support Kree Pandey, Graphic Support Lea Orsini Christine Eribal, Original Music by InnovatorsBox Studios, and executive producing, writing and editing and interviewing and all that jazz by me, Monica Kang. I hope you enjoyed today's conversation. Please send us a note for any feedback and suggestions and questions that you have at info@innovatorsfox.com have a wonderful day and see you soon.
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Monica H. Kang: What do you do when you walk into a room where you're the only one who looks like you and thinks like you? Shinayeb chan noticed that most of the rooms that she's in, she was the only female or asian person. It didn't feel right and it wasn't right. She was frustrated and felt stuck. And in her pursuit of wanting to find healing, she started investigating and wonder, am I the only one who's feeling this? Turns out shes not. It inspired her to starting her award winning podcast called the Towel of Self confidence where she interviews now over 900 womens around the world who happen to be an asian female, how they found their self confidence in what that journey was like.
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Monica H. Kang: Ive also been on the show and.
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Monica H. Kang: It was a humbling experience to reflect back on my journey and realize how those environmentalists influenced how I think my voice is. It inspired her to write her book that became a Wall Street Journal bestseller called the Tao of Self confidence as well. Sheena is based in Toronto, but travels around the world very frequently to help innovators and others rethink about their stories and how they find their confidence, too. So as we celebrate Asian American Pacific island Heritage Month and asian innovator stories, I'm very excited to invite my friend Sheena here today. You're listening to curious Monica by innovators Box. I'm your host, Monica King, founder and CEO of Innovators Box. Let's dive in.
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Monica H. Kang: I don't know how we already got to maze, but I am so thrilled in celebration of that to have my friend Sheena Yap Chan. You might have heard her, especially if you've been following asian american news. I mean, she has been the host of the towel of self confidence. You want to be able to tune into her episodes because she really dives deep into. In fact, I believe now at this point she has already 900 plus episode. We're going to learn more. How in the world she managed all of that, asking many asian american females, how in the world do you gain confidence? Well, that, of course, inspired her to also be the author of the book the towel of self confidence that came out in 2023. You want to check that out, too. Already a bestseller and recognized.
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Sheena Yap Chan: And in fact, she is another one.
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Monica H. Kang: Coming out in 2025 where you want to make sure you grab her contacts so that way you can get the book with you. But I went on to say, we have a lot to dive in. And the first question I really want to dive in with her is like, why self confidence and highlight female API story. So Shannon please.
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Sheena Yap Chan: First off, Monica, thank you so much for having me on the show today. And happy Aapi month to everyone out there. You know, the work that I do really stemmed from my upbringing. Growing up in Canada in the early nineties, I never saw anybody in the media that looked like me. So I was always ashamed of being asian. I wanted to have blonde hair and blue eyes to feel more accepted or to feel more beautiful. And it wasn't until my twenties where I dyed my hair back from blonde to my original hair color, where I finally embraced culture. And in 2015, as I was dealing with my own confidence issues, I was really trying to find resources that cater to asian women. And I couldn't find any, right. I thought maybe something was wrong with me. I was the only one dealing with this.
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Sheena Yap Chan: And I realized, culturally, we're not told to talk about our. Our feelings, what we're going through, our challenges. So I decided to start my podcast, the town of self confidence, where I interviewed asian women about their journey to self. And it's like you mentioned, over 900 episodes. I don't know how I do it either. I take a lot of breaks, that's for sure. But really, I just. I wanted to have this as a number one representation, because representation is very important to me to showcase all these amazing asian women from around the world, from different backgrounds, different careers, showing you what it takes to build confidence, right. And also have it as a support system. You know, being able to interview so many amazing women, even like yourself. Monica, you are a guest on the show.
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Sheena Yap Chan: It made me realize I wasn't the only one who was dealing with these issues. A lot of us do. It's just we don't talk about it. And this is why having the difficult conversations is very important. So we can find ways to move forward and show up as our best self.
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Monica H. Kang: So this is now the version you get to know about Sheena of all the research she has done. But I want to circle back to way back in the beginning, because as our innovators know, one of the things that is hard as an innovator is to dark and Sheena. So if you can bring us back, way down the memory lane when you first start thought of this, why podcasts? Why you, like, what inspired you? I know one of it was because there was a gap. But how did you know? Like, did you already know that one day I'm gonna write a book. One day I want to, like, do this, to, like, do 900,000 plus episodes to research, like, did you see that coming all the way from the beginning. I'm curious, like, what was that first initial start that helped? You know, maybe.
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Sheena Yap Chan: Yeah, I mean, I've always wanted to create a platform to elevate women, and especially asian women, just because there wasn't a lot of representation out there. And, you know, when I saw what a podcast was, I thought that made so much sense, really. You can download this audio anytime you wanted to. You can listen to it at any given moment. You don't really have to kind of pay attention. Like, you know, it's there, but not there. And people can still listen to it when they're busy, especially moms, when they're, you know, giving their kids a bath or, like, prepping their meals or, like, getting their school ready. Like, you know, they can just have this in the background and have that quick fix for the day. And so starting was hard, of course.
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Sheena Yap Chan: Like anything, when you start something new, you're gonna overthink, you're gonna procrastinate, you're gonna doubt yourself. And I was the same way. Especially in 2015, there was hardly any asian people podcasting. In fact, I saw one asian guy podcasting about the asian american community or the API community. And because I saw him do it, I said, okay, if he's doing it, then I'm going to do it. And so this is why representation is so important. Sometimes it just takes one person to show you the way, and you can go out there and just make things happen. This is why I'm very passionate about creating representation, because it helps our current and future generations to show them what is possible.
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Monica H. Kang: That is so important. And as folks are listening in this month, one of the things I love is that we have a lot of diverse fans and community members. And so whether this is your first time learning about AAPi or veteran, you're all here for the right reason. I think a reminder of that, your voice, whatever that version is important. I like to geek out on detail. So one thing I am curious is, like, how did you come up with the name the Tao of self confidence? Because to your point, even though you have that clarity, you could have named it something different. You could have said API female stories. I don't know why that name. How did you know self confidence was theme you wanted to explore?
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Sheena Yap Chan: Yeah, I mean, funny story self.
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Monica H. Kang: We like funny stories. Please share.
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Sheena Yap Chan: When I first started my podcast and trying to figure out a name, I was trying to be clever, because I thought being clever is what draws the crowd in, right? And so I initially wanted to name it the stripper. And have a tagline to strip your limiting beliefs away.
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Monica H. Kang: Wow. Yeah.
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Sheena Yap Chan: And then I hired a graphic designer to create the graphic to have, and it was literally a silhouette of a stripper with a whip. And thank God I was in this. In this mastermind of podcasters, of seasoned podcasters. So when I showed them the artwork, they were like, oh, I don't think you'll have the right audience. I think you're gonna attract the wrong people. Like, nine out of ten said it wasn't good. So a part of me was like, oh, my God, if I can't even get the name right, how am I going to get the show right? So sometimes I had to take a step back and get clear. And my friend helped me also get clear. You know, she's a spiritual healer. She was like, there's going to be a word in there that starts with the letter C.
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Sheena Yap Chan: I was like, okay, let her see. So I was scouring through, like, apple. Apple iTunes, because there was no Apple podcast back, still apple iTunes. And I saw a lot of. A lot of shows that said the art of the art. And I was like, okay, I could do that. The art of. But I didn't want to be the next person to say the art of. Right. Because there were so many. And then I saw Tao and what it meant, right. Like, especially has an asian adaptation to it. Like, would you share more?
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Monica H. Kang: Yeah.
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Sheena Yap Chan: Yeah.
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Monica H. Kang: Why Tao? What is Tao?
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Sheena Yap Chan: Yeah. So Tao means the way, right? So I was like, oh, I like that. The way to self confidence, right? Because there's no one way of building it. We're all different. You know, what may work for me might not work for you. And so being able to share these different stories shows you the way to self confidence can be this or the way to self confidence can be that. And so also being able to find the word confidence, I was like, okay, that's it. That's how self confidence. And then I hired the same person to redo it again. You know, like, it's, you know, a photo of an asian woman, an office suit, and then she has a cape in the.
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Monica H. Kang: Which is amazing. You want to check it out?
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Sheena Yap Chan: Yeah, yeah. Which is really powerful. And then when I shared that, everyone, nine out of ten, loved it. So that's how the name came about. I love it.
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Monica H. Kang: I think one of the things you're sharing in that story is just how important it is to get customer feedback, one mistakes and make mistakes. And I appreciate you sharing, because I actually did not know. As Sheena mentioned, I had the honor of being in her early, one of the early guests on our podcast. And I appreciated the vulnerable questions. I think you were one of my first interviewer who really pushed me to, like, share something I've never shared online. So if you all check back, I don't know what I said last time, but the episodes are still out there. And in fact, you have many more that you can learn from.
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Monica H. Kang: But given that, you know, one of the things that I love to think as a host as well is just how much more you get to also be on the learning seat. And so 900 plus is a lot. So curious. What are the things? Well, first different legs, but first about confidence and AAPI, female voices, representation and all of that you care. Was there a surprise that you learned that you didn't expect to learn versus when you first started?
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Sheena Yap Chan: I think it's just learning that we all go through the similar situations, we all go through these repressed feelings that it's hard to share out to maybe our society, our family and friends, because, you know, deem, like, we're seen as weak. So. So being able to. And being able to realize that I wasn't the only one that made me feel a lot better. Like, I didn't realize I wasn't. I felt like I wasn't crazy. Like, I wasn't crazy. Like, this is. This is normal. Like, people feel this way, you know, and. And I realized because I didn't feel alone, it was easier for me to find resources to help me get through it. Right. That was one thing. I mean, I think the fact that people were just so vulnerable was just really eye opening.
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Sheena Yap Chan: You know, some of them were like, this is the first time I've ever shared this to every. Anybody. And I was like, oh, wow, you know, that's amazing. Like, I appreciate that, considering we just met online and you don't really know who I am. But you were. You're able to share the most vulnerable parts of your story in the podcast that people can resonate. And so I'm always grateful for all the things that, you know, all the women who share their story who be able to be vulnerable, because being vulnerable is not easy, right? Especially when you grow up in a culture where you can't show emotion. You have to save face. You always have to be the perfect daughter, wife, or mother, etcetera, or the perfect woman. And it's really unattainable. Right?
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Sheena Yap Chan: And then here we see all these amazing women who have nine figure businesses, who have 2 million followers on Instagram be able to share their vulnerabilities and what they've been through. And it's just so refreshing, right? Especially in this world of social media. We, you know, we live in a world of filters and editing and, like, you know, we just need something authentic.
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Monica H. Kang: And speaking of authentic, I'm curious if you can also bring us behind the scene of all your development work. In addition to that, you have wrote your bestseller book. That is also the title, the Tao of self confidence. And you have another one coming out. How do you make time to do all of that? Because for those who don't know, if you're just listening, we love you. But one of the things you might not know is that it's actually a lot of work for podcasts and writing. And if you do follow Sheena, and I recommend you do, she produces a lot of content, a lot of writing, Instagram, LinkedIn, tons of news. I think keep track of more AapI news from her and a few others as well.
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Monica H. Kang: So my authentic question back to you on top of that is, how do you manage all of it? Because it seems like a lot of work. And is there any new tips and tricks that you've learned over the years that you can share, maybe with some of our innovators?
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Sheena Yap Chan: Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think one of the most important things to know is that I love doing what I'm doing. So sometimes it doesn't feel like work and every person's different, right? I mean, I don't have kids. I'm not married. So, of course, like, talking to a mom with three. Three children is like. Doesn't make sense.
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Monica H. Kang: Make sense.
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Sheena Yap Chan: She has three kids to take care of. And I think, you know, we just find our own little routine, right? If you can't post content every single day, maybe twice a week, right. You can just start small and kind of start working your way up. It's better than not putting anything at all. You know, if you see me on social media, I'm very. I'm very passionate about helping women learn to self promote, because self promotion is something that most women have a hard time with. Right. Tons of questions about self promotion. It's like, you know, I get questions like, how much is too much? Are you. What if you sound arrogant? What if people make fun of you? And I'm like, people are gonna make fun of you regardless of what you do. And if they do, those aren't your people, right?
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Sheena Yap Chan: And when it comes to how many, how much is too much? I honestly have no idea. You know, I. What I say is, if you're not sick of your face yet. You're not doing it right. Because if you look at singers, if they have a number one hit song, they're gonna sing it nonstop to the point where they hate singing their own song. Do it because it's a money maker. And so you have to see it that way. And especially, like, the Barbie movie last year, made a billion dollars. First movie directed by a woman to hit a billion dollar mark. Imagine how much promotion happened, right? You couldn't go without the month of July with seeing the color pink or every single company in the world collaborating with Barbie.
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Sheena Yap Chan: Whether it was Xbox or Airbnb, there was, like, a Barbie line from every single company. So I always want to show women, like, it's okay, right? You know, this comes from, like, society telling us it's unladylike, but, like, really, who created that? Probably a man, right? Just say, like, it's unladylike to do that. But for me, it's like, no, it's not. I mean, especially if you have a product or service that's gonna help someone for the better. You share it out, right? You just share it out. And if people say something, just ignore them. I know it's easier said than done. Believe me, I've been there. I know what it's like. I know it can get daunting. But when you can learn to focus on the positive versus the negative, you know, you'll move forward.
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Monica H. Kang: So important, again, for those who, as you might have caught the nuggets, how important? The way you think and engage in knowing that it's one step at a time. Speaking of which, that requires a lot of writing and reflecting and preparing. So I'm curious, like, Michina, is writing something, a medium that you like doing? Did you already know that you loved writing before? And was it something that you rather discovered later on?
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Sheena Yap Chan: To be honest, I wasn't born a writer. In fact, you know, grammar's still not my strong suit. Even if I post stuff on social media, my sister's always like, how did you become a writer? Like, look at what you're writing. It doesn't make sense. Like, you missed a spot here. I was like, okay, well, I can always edit it and do it later, right? So I make a ton of mistakes still, even until now. And so even coming to Canada, like, I had to take English classes as a second language in elementary school because I couldn't put sentences together. And when I did, it didn't make sense. So writing was definitely not something I thought I ever wanted like, when there was, like, English class or writing class or in high school, I was like, I hated it. It fan. No.
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Sheena Yap Chan: And for the longest time, I just thought I wasn't a writer, and I realized that, you know. Right. There's no one way of writing. And I think when it comes to writing, it's writing from the heart. Writing from your authentic self is really important. And, yeah, maybe that sounds cliche, or you've heard that so many times, but in all honesty, I just. I talk like I write. Even my friends told me, like, my best friends, when they read the book, the towel of self confidence, they're like, oh, my God, I could hear your voice, like, saying this as I'm reading this, like, that's. And that, like, that was the best feedback I got, that it. That it sounds like me. Right? And they can imagine me saying it because, of course, we want to be authentic. We want to be vulnerable.
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Sheena Yap Chan: We want to be able to say things that we do in our own voice, and it's not always easy. So, yeah, I never thought I was going to be a writer. You know, when this opportunity came out, came about in 2022, I almost hesitated, because I was like, who am I to write a book about asian women leadership? Like, what. What experiences do I have? And so. So if it wasn't for another lady who told me, just do it. I said, okay, I'm gonna do this. I'm just gonna go out there and write it. And in fact, I only had, like, less than three months to write this book because it was supposed to come out last.
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Monica H. Kang: Yeah.
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Sheena Yap Chan: Cause it came out last May, and so I just made it happen. Right. I think sometimes having a deadline is a good thing. That's what I say. Because they're not in deadline, you're not gonna do it. But when you have a tight deadline, you're like, okay, then you'll make time for it, right? You're going to make time to write this because there's a deadline, and if you don't hit the deadline, it's on you. Right. So. So I just made it happen. I would spend weekends at the coffee shop to write it. And, you know, I started with no clue what I was going to write. Like, I just had an outline. I sent it over to Wiley, and then they gave me the green light. And then the day after, I was like, okay, what am I going to write about?
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Sheena Yap Chan: I have an outline, but, like, it's just a chapter outline. I don't really have an outline for each chapter. And it just kept writing as I went along, did it. And so, you know, also being able to. I was being able to have it in batches made it help, too. Like, I didn't have to write the whole thing at once. I could, like, write the first part in a month, and then the next month, I'll write the second part and the last part in the last month. So doing it in batches is also very important because, you know, it makes a difference when you have to, like, run a 50,000 word book versus, like, okay, I just need to write like, 15,000. 15,000 is good. And then when you, like, it's not as big as 50,000.
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Sheena Yap Chan: So having it in batches does make a big difference. So, yeah, I mean, deadlines are really great. Having accountability is really important. And just, you know, you just. I think if. If you have this desire to do it, you're going to do it right. And I know sometimes it's not easy. I guess women, I get it. Women do ten times more things than men, right? When men. When there's men out there who say they have 8 hours of writing, women are like, yeah, I wish I had 1 hour of writing, right? Because you're taking care of kids, you're doing chores, you're doing all kinds of stuff, right? Like, you're basically the caretaker for every single person, including outside family members. So that it's. So I understand that sometimes time is not on your side, but if we can.
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Sheena Yap Chan: If we really want something to happen, we will make it happen. That I do know as women, like, one thing I know, especially married women, if they want something from their husband, they're gonna. They're gonna give you. They're gonna have a million reasons why they need it to the point where.
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Monica H. Kang: They just get it.
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Sheena Yap Chan: That I do know.
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Monica H. Kang: We love all the husbands out there. Thank you for being great, part one. Well, no, thank you so much for sharing that. There's so many gems of wisdom, and just to piggyback on a few, that was, you know, just want to emphasize again for our listeners is just reminder that you might not know your best strengths. So I, again, thank you for your humble sharing that you didn't know writing was a strength of yours. And yet it's, the very way of how you communicate authentically is the way it's resonating. And then knowing that even at the very moment when you have the opportunity, you took a step back and like, wait, is it right? I think often we feel like, no, I thought everything you already knew, you're talking about confidence. We thought you already confidently knew, and I appreciate you humbly sharing that.
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Monica H. Kang: It's a journey that you're also continuing to go into. Most importantly, did I catch it right that now, in 2024, may, this is a one year anniversary for your congratulations.
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Sheena Yap Chan: It's so crazy. Like, who would have thought I would have a out? And, yeah, you're right. Just because I talk about confidence and my expert topic is confidence and leadership. I mean, talking about it is easy. Doing it is a whole other story.
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Monica H. Kang: You know, you're always gonna have new.
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Sheena Yap Chan: Challenges that's gonna arise. You know, when you start something new, like, all those feelings come up again. Am I gonna do it? This is gonna work? Am I gonna be a failure? What if people laugh at me? Like, all those things will always come up, right? Even. Even when I go into an interview or a speaking engagement, I still get nervous. Like, I still, like, want to make sure I give the best, you know, interview or best. Best speech out there so that, you know, people can walk away with something that they can use. And so, you know, just because I talk about it doesn't mean that I don't go through it. I go through it all the time, and I think, you know, it's.
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Monica H. Kang: It's.
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Sheena Yap Chan: It doesn't make sense for someone who's 100% confident all the time. That's just me, because there's days where I'm, like, -10% confident, or there's just days where I just want to hide from the world and, like, watch k drama all day and, like, eat junk food, because that's.
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Monica H. Kang: Thank you for all the k dramas and junk food out there, right?
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Sheena Yap Chan: Because. Because we're gonna have good and bad days. And the only difference is that, like, the bad days, we know how to push through. We know that it's gonna happen. We have the tools and resources to pick ourselves, so, yeah, we can wallow in it for a little bit. I need who I mean, I do still. I mean, I'll eat my feelings when I get rejected for something. Then I pick myself back up, and I said. And I tell myself, you know, I've been through worse. I can move through it and just, you know, keep moving forward, and I don't do this alone. You know, community is very important. I'm very, like, if you see me, I'm all about community. I'm all about, you know, collaboration is key, doing things together. I don't believe in self made, because nothing is self made.
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Sheena Yap Chan: Everything takes someone either to buy your product, to promote you, to talk about you to whip out their credit card in order for you to make that income, the life that you want. So every, for me, everything is community made. I don't think there's such a thing as self made in my opinion. I love it.
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Monica H. Kang: It's so important. I think often when we see somebody expert, we assume, oh, this person has everything figured out and can always be in that gem. And I share that back with creativity as well. Some days I feel creative and some days I don't. And I feel at times even worse when I don't feel creative because I feel like I have to be in that pressure often almost makes it feel worse. And I appreciate your honesty as well to know that is something called being a normal human being. And it goes to the bigger picture I know you advocate for, which is stopping perfectionism, stopping the neuroperfect image.
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Monica H. Kang: And so to your point, seeing how you've kind of described here, the confidence, seeing as a skill set, we have a lot of leaders, entrepreneurs, different audiences who tune in, always looking to upskill, especially at the time of AI growing world, and also how the workplace has changed so much. I'm curious, one, I guess, first part, quick insight, what's at least one way, when you know, you feel down, how do you get back yourself? Get yourself back up with your confidence. And then I'll ask a second after that to not overwhelm.
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Sheena Yap Chan: Yeah, for sure. I mean, that's a great question. And this is why I love reading other people's stories who have been in a similar situation. Like, like, I love listening to historic story because he has the biggest comeback story in America or in the world, I think. And just when I hear what struggles.
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Monica H. Kang: He went through, and for those, sorry, for those who don't know him, could you give a little shout out who he is?
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Sheena Yap Chan: Yes, for sure. So he was in the movie everything everywhere all at once. He won best supporting actor. He's also in two famous movies, Indiana Jones and the Goonies. And so every time I see him, it actually just pumps me up knowing, okay, he went through a lot to get to where he is today, not having an acting job for over 20 years. And even when he filmed everything everywhere all at once, it was during the beginning of the pandemic. So he didn't have a job for a year, lost his health insurance, and didn't even know what was going to happen. The only thing he asked his agent at the time was, am I at least good at this movie? And the agent's like, yeah, you have nothing to worry about. And then now, you know, he's just everywhere.
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Sheena Yap Chan: And that's why representation is so important. You know, like, he got back into acting because he saw crazy rich Asians and got FoMO and decided to get back into acting. And that's why I'm always advocating for more representation, to showcase more asian women who are amazing. We're powerful or strong and confident because those are the type of women we'd want to see, right? We want to see and show us what's possible. So, yeah, for me, I love reading other people's stories, especially, like, you know, the hero's journey type of stories, because, I mean, those are the stories that are actually relatable, right? Because we, like I mentioned, we go through downtimes. We go through, like, depression. We go through, like, good and bad days. You know, life is a roller coaster, but how do we navigate that? So love it.
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Monica H. Kang: So important. And to build on that for leaders out there, like, okay, great, Monica, shiny. I'm excited. I'm pumped up. How can I upskill. So in addition to what you shared, other than great, read more, learn more, check out our podcast and these stories. Are there ways that you recommend leaders in how they can upskill, especially knowing that, you know, the way of work has changed so much and is continuing to change.
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Sheena Yap Chan: Yeah, I mean, I think the most important part of everything is taking action, right? We can learn about confidence. We can read about confidence. But if you don't apply the things you learn, then nothing happens, right? Especially in the workplace. I know. It's like the API community. We're not taught to go out there and network or talk to our boss or, like, ask them for coffee or make that relationship with other co workers. For the longest time, we've been told to work hard, put your head down, never make any trouble. But that doesn't really help us. It makes. It actually hurts us because all we're ever seeing is hard working. And I'm not saying you don't put in the work, but you gotta learn to work hard and work smart, right?
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Sheena Yap Chan: Being able to be in front of the people maybe you want a promotion with, right? Just having candid conversations, right. Because the more they see your face, the more they remember you and be like, oh, I remember her. You know, she was really good.
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Monica H. Kang: She's, she.
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Sheena Yap Chan: She would be like a good candidate to be, you know, for that next promotion. You know, just little things like that. And I understand there's still, like, unconscious bias that still happens. But if we don't take these little steps to go out there and do it. Nothing ever changes. Like, a really great example is kidney, right? She was the first woman to get a general manager position in any major sports team. Not first asian woman, first woman, right? She became a general manager for the Miami Marlins. And, you know, in fact, she actually took the Miami Marlins to their first playoffs last year in like 20 years. So she has a really great track record. Any baseball fan who knows her knows that she is awesome. She is phenomenal.
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Sheena Yap Chan: But it took her, you know, she got rejected from five other teams before she even got the position of general manager at Miami, at the Miami Martins. So this is why I'm saying, like, you know, we're not, like, it's still going to take us, still takes work on our part, right, because of the unconscious bias. But she was able to make it happen. She was able to show that she can take this team and bring it to the playoffs. And then even then, she actually just, she left. She left the Miami Marlins team because the franchise decided to hire, like, a president of operations from outside instead of, like, asking her. Because she. She knows her worth, right? She knows she can do the job. And so she was willing to walk away with that.
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Sheena Yap Chan: And leadership, you know, sometimes leadership can look like that, right? Sometimes you have to know your own worth. You know that you are more than capable out there to do something different. And I know that it's not easy when you see, like, well, I'm already at this position. Like, this is probably the best I could ever get. She was like, no, I could do better. There's people out there who want me. I'm just gonna walk away and see what else is out there, right?
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Monica H. Kang: And that is scary.
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Sheena Yap Chan: Of course, it's risky. It's scary. But that being a leader means also taking risk and, like, learning to embrace the outcome or embrace the unknown. I love that.
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Monica H. Kang: And in fact, you're seeing already the ripple effects, right? Like, I don't know her.
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Sheena Yap Chan: Sheena doesn't.
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Monica H. Kang: Unless Sheena, do you know her personally, I wish. We are secret fans behind the scene, but, you know, her stories inspire somewhere far out there. And your leadership stories out there, listeners, as you are thinking about it, you never know who you are inspiring. And so keep in mind, the ripple effect is always further than you think it is. Speaking of which, we are celebration celebrating AAPI Heritage Month. But the little fun fact that you might not know, if you listen carefully, you might have caught Pashina is based in Canada. So one of the fun facts I did wanted to piggyback is if there's any difference among asian American and asian Canadian or, you know, what it means and maybe any other leaders that we can also learn from.
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Sheena Yap Chan: Yeah, I mean, you know, that was.
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Monica H. Kang: A lot of questions. So you can digest one at a time.
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Sheena Yap Chan: Well, well, the month of May in Canada is still Asian Heritage Month, so we still celebrate that in the month of May. I think the difference between, like, Asian Americans and Asian Canadians is there's way more organizations for the API community in America than in Canada, which makes sense because there's ten times more of the population in America than Canada. But when we do have these organizations are made up, it's really special because it's like we just. It feels like we just know each other the minute we, we met. Right. Like, I remember Asian Hustle Network last year had their first networking event. There was about 30 founders that met up and it was just a really great time, and were like, you know, we would love to see more of this happening. This is something that we definitely need in the community.
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Sheena Yap Chan: So that's one thing I really do want to see in Canada, especially like Toronto. Vancouver has the highest asian population. Just to have more organizations out there, kind of like Asian hustle Network or like, you know, just where we can just support each other and just have that camaraderie. But I love being asian canadian. Like, you know, it's different for me. I think it's different. It sets me apart from everybody else and out of that, love Canada. Love that Toronto is a very multicultural city. I love that we can try different foods from all over the world. We also have really good asian food here. Oh, that's what I always say.
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Monica H. Kang: Always important.
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Sheena Yap Chan: Yes. You know, foods are love language. The only thing I don't like is the snow. I try and escape as much as I can.
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Monica H. Kang: Well, if you need to make a quick visit to the other, you're always welcome. And I know you're often in the states. In fact, for many, speaking and collaboration work that you do.
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Sheena Yap Chan: Yeah.
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Monica H. Kang: And building on that note, as I've asked, I'm curious if you can introduce us to new people we should follow and learn from. One of the things I want to highlight through these series of interviews is really amplifying where we learn from. And often, I think, as innovators, even though we want to learn from new perspectives, we might not know where to go. So whether this is for listeners, your first time learning about API communities or veteran, I think we always have more space to learn from others. So if you can shout out maybe three or four names or people you think we should learn don't have to be just female, but maybe asian innovators who happen to be asian.
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Sheena Yap Chan: Yeah, for sure. I mean, of course I'm going to shout out my good friend Jeannie Chang because she's just awesome if you don't know her. She started a platform called Nuna's Nunchi where she utilized K dramas to promote mental health. She also has a book coming out this month on K dramas and mental health. And, you know, she's also started, like, kdrama Tours, which has been blowing up, which. And I just love everything that she's done. I think what she. What she's doing makes so much sense because, I mean, K dramas is like the way of life, right? And just the stories are all relatable, so that's one. Another person is actually a canadian asian colleague. His name is John Wang, and he has a podcast called Big Asian Energy. So just. Just that word is really on.
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Sheena Yap Chan: You know, it just fires me up when I, like, think about it, because we do have that energy. It's just. It's been kept inside us. Cause we've been told never to show it. And, you know, it's time for us to show it. It's time for us to step up. And another one is a cohort that I'm a part of called US PAC wide program. So it's from the US Pan Asian American Chamber of Commerce. They've had their first women's program where we just collaborate, connect with each other. And it's just great to have a group where you can be supported and feel supported and also support one another. It's really important. Like Asian. Asians, we should be okay to ask for help. We should be okay to collaborate, because that's how we can create the changes that we want to see in this role.
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Monica H. Kang: Now back to Jeanne and us. Pac, who is a good friend of ours as well, knew Jeanne way back, way before she started Nuna's nunchin. So it's really exciting to see all the mega growth for fans who have been listening to our shows. You might recognize her early interviews with her in our past season. So check that out. And us pack for those who might not have heard, if you follow me on social media, you might have seen me give a shout out because that was one of the first supplier diversity events, which I do talk about in our other show, dear workplace. So check that out. Where they really advocate for all small, medium sized, you know, color people of color business owners, especially for Asian Americans.
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Monica H. Kang: And that was actually my first entryway because I was proud to also highlight I was the only female out of the seven who finalists who was presenting. I did not win, but I won my first client, which ended up entering me into the whole world of corporate workshop and facilitation world. And so Sheena's right. Like, a lot of what you hear, these names, they're not just like, names that are names. Like, these are real people who are doing the work. So just want a plus one on that. I look forward to learning your new friend to learn more about asian canadian voices. And I love that podcast name, so thank you for sharing that. And of course, everyone's going to also check out your content and work. And I know you have a lot.
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Monica H. Kang: We hinted already earlier that you have a new book coming out 2025. Can we get a little sneak peek?
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Sheena Yap Chan: What's about? Oh, well, I haven't. I have the secret. I have to keep that under wraps. So I think. Okay, yeah, we tried, guys.
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Monica H. Kang: We tried.
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Sheena Yap Chan: It will still be on the topic of confidence. So that's all I'll share right now. But it'll be out, I think, in 2025, early 2025. It might even be ready for pre order. So, you know, just check it out on Amazon or Indigo. There could be a pre order link somewhere already. But, yeah, you know, it's really surreal to think, you know, I was really happy to write one book by Wiley, but then two books is like, wow, right? So it's just really, I'm just really grateful for the opportunity.
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Monica H. Kang: And it speaks, I think, really validation to all the hard work you've done. Because one thing that, as you're hearing this conversation, I hope you all recognize that for Sheena to share everything she's done, it's a lot of work. And as she has already hinted, there is a lot of ups and downs to that journey. I'm curious. We didn't get a chance to talk about this in the earlier, but it kind of ties organically how this connects to your childhood, which is like, is this kind of the journey that you thought you wanted to go when you were young? And if not, why not?
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Sheena Yap Chan: No, I did not think I would be doing. Honestly, I thought I was just going to do a nine to five job, you know, office job, you know, like, basically whatever I was told to do, I never thought I would write not one, but two books beyond stages, being able to do workshops or clients, corporate clients, being able to travel to different places, you know, I never thought this was good, but I'm glad that I even surprised myself. And I bet, like, especially with all.
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Monica H. Kang: The conversations with the community development, the gap of the asian canadian community, I don't know, maybe we're going to see something like that and we know we're going to be like, oh, we know. The founder, Sheena, was here on the show way before she started that. So stay tuned for sure. It's so inspiring to see such a. Just a full energy of creating that you continue to do, but I hope you continue to take care of yourself, too. As you have said, you shared so many gems of wisdom. Any final one last word of wisdom that you would like to share with our innovators out there in how to continue to thrive? Because this place is kind of messy lately.
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Sheena Yap Chan: It is messy. I mean, I think, you know, it's important to just take it one step at a time. It's okay if you don't make big leaps. It's not the end of the world. It's actually the small, actionable daily steps that will yield the big result. It's kind of like if you want to write a book, when you think writing a book, oh, my God, it's so daunting. 50,000 words. How am I gonna get 50,000 words? But if you just told yourself, I'm gonna write a page a day for a full year straight from the beginning to the end, like, you'll have not only one, maybe two books, because you were consistent in writing a page a day. So that's why I say, just take those small, actual daily steps. Learn to celebrate everything you've achieved, no matter how big or small they are.
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Sheena Yap Chan: Because that's how you also build your own confidence and make sure to surround yourself with people who will, you know, constantly lift you up. I think people don't understand how important your surroundings are. Right. And there's some surroundings we can't run away from. So that's why personal development is very important, so we can work on it.
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Monica H. Kang: Very, very true. I think our existing families and built new families that we build throughout our ecosystem is so key. How can people continue to learn from you? I think a few hints we already heard was your social media platforms, your book podcasts. Is there anywhere else that we should also look out for or where you want them to go more to?
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Sheena Yap Chan: Yeah, for sure. They can check out my website, shinayachan.com.
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Monica H. Kang: Put it in the show notes, look for that.
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Sheena Yap Chan: They can order the current book, the Towel of Self Confidence. You can also check out my podcast thetaofselfconfidence.com or you can check past episodes. The podcast is on all major podcast directories so Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Play. You can also check out my social media handles Sheena Yap chan on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, LinkedIn. I really love LinkedIn so feel free to connect with me on that. And if you also on my website you can also get a free self confidence personality test. So you could take that test and you get results right away. If you forgot anything that I said, just google my name sheena yap chan because I'm literally the only sheena yap chan on the Internet. Love it. Love it.
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Monica H. Kang: No Sheena, thank you so much for joining us on the show. This is again Monica at Curious Monica where we interview innovators around the world to learn about how we can tap into our creativity differently. So excited that we have shinayap Chen here today as we celebrate Aapi Heritage month. So check out her, check out ways to connect with her. We're gonna put that in the show notes in reminders again. You can find that in any podcast episode that you are listening to or also at podcast dot innovatorsbox.com or blog dot innovatorsbox.com. And if you can't find it, just also send us a quick email info innovatorsbox.com thank you so much and we look forward to seeing you soon again. Thank you so much for tuning in to another episode at Curious Monica.
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Monica H. Kang: I'm your host and executive director of the show, Monica King, founder and CEO of Innovators Box and Little Love. Shout out to our team who made this show possible for you today. From InnovatorsBox Studios Audio Engineering and producing Sam Lehmart, Audio Engineering assistants Ravi Lad, Website and Marketing support Kree Pandey, Graphic Support Lea Orsini Christine Eribal, Original Music by InnovatorsBox Studios, and executive producing, writing and editing and interviewing and all that jazz by me, Monica Kang. I hope you enjoyed today's conversation. Please send us a note for any feedback and suggestions and questions that you have at info@innovatorsfox.com have a wonderful day and see you soon.
