CultivatED Marketer Ep. 48 — Why the Best Communicators Speak the C-Suite’s Language with DJ Jordan

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This file was generated by Descript
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Cultivated Marketer, episode 48,
Leading with Purpose and Managing
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Reputation in a Complex World.
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What if the differentiator in
communications and marketing today
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isn't louder messaging, but a stronger
commitment to leadership and reputation?
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Hear from a guest who has spanned
multiple marcom roles, going from
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policy comms to news, and now is
leading reputation management strategy
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All right, so we have our guest
this episode is DJ Jordan.
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What a diverse and varied career starting
in w- And also to, to have that intere-
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level of interest in both politics and
sports, but then to, to start in sports
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and I, I had so much to unpack from that
conversation, but he He falsely attributes
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intelligence to me in the interview when I
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He got out of sports later than I did, but
then Matt, you would know this, I'm not
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nearly as smart as he thinks I am because
I let my son continue in, in sports.
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So yeah.
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So I, I, and I didn't tell DJ that, so
I'm gonna have to confess that to him
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either in person or in writing when we
thank him for the show, is I'm not nearly
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as intelligent as, as he thinks I am, so.
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Yeah.
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Well, Julie, tell us the origin story.
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Yeah.
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How
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did you,
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how did you get to DJ?
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How did I get connected to him?
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Yeah.
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So I was working at, when I
was at one non-profit and I
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moved to the next non-profit.
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On day one of the next non-profit, the
previous non-profit was exploding with
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a major crisis communications issue,
and I had heard his name enough, and so
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I'm on the phone with an old coworker,
'cause they were without a comms director
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because I was no longer there, and I
said, "You need to call DJ Jordan."
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And they did.
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They ended up bringing him in,
and he really helped shepherd the,
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the communications function of the
organization in the interim after I
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had left and they were, they hadn't
hired a communications director.
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So he's really good, and that's
why I wanted to bring him on.
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And I loved personally hearing
him talk about his background.
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I knew he'd worked at both CNN and Fox.
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I know he'd worked, I believe it was the
attorney general's office in Virginia.
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He'd been on Capitol Hill.
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But I didn't know that he got h- I, I,
I loved h- I won't give it away, but
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I loved hearing him talk about how he
got started and as a little, I'll say
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nerdy middle schooler, even though he
didn't say this, but when he talks about
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who he was as a little, little nerdy
middle schooler, how he got interested
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in communications was fascinating.
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Mm-hmm.
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Yeah.
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Super smart guy.
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You know what I was impressed with him is
that he was kind of, and we'll often ask
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guests to do this, he was talking about
his career and all the different things
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he got to do, et cetera, et cetera, and,
and when we asked him what were those, and
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I won't give it away, want the listeners
to hear, but what were those hallmark
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moments for you, those turning points?
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And he talked about when he made
the mental jump to transitioning
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from basic skills and just kind of
doing the day-to-day into being more
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thinking of himself as a strategist,
and how that's really when he
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felt like his career took off.
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Because, you know, we've all been
in front of students, guys, and how
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many times do we tell them, "You
better develop your strategy skills.
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You better understand how to do more
than just offer people tactics." And
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it was just interesting to hear him
talk about how that became a, a real
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true turning point, 'cause this is a
guy who's suc- incredibly successful.
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I mean, how many of our students would
like to have his career trajectory?
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Mm-hmm.
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And yet that's what he pointed to as
being kind of that hallmark moment.
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I just thought that was
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super cool.
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He touched on that a couple different
times in a couple different ways,
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too, because he talked about his
relationship with the C-suite, and
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when people think about that in a
marketing or communications role, they
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think about it from the standpoint
of the CEO or the CMO or the CCO.
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But when we started talking about the
CFO And a lot of the conversations
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I'll have with individuals about
strategy, and I, you know, I like to
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keep things super simple, is that it
either come, it comes to m- money.
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It's still all about- Mm-hmm … money.
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If you're in the for-profit, even some
extent at the non-profit, it's- Sure.
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Oh, yeah
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… it's about money, and we're either growing
or it's either top line or bottom line.
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And so the whole notion of him even
talking about the relationship with
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the CFO and thinking about that
strategically was, was… really stuck
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out to me as something we haven't heard
so much in our other conversations.
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Yes, that was so, so good.
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So good.
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Anything else you guys would like to
mention from that conversation, or we
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just turn the… The other thing that
was fun in this, and I'm so glad, Julie,
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you had made the, the recommendation,
was for us to do something.
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And he led right into that,
too, when we were talking.
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He was great.
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He, he led right into that.
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It was, he was perfect
guinea pig for this.
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But we, we do have a new segment, folks,
and, and DJ brought, he brought it on
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the, on the new segment we got at the end.
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New
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segment.
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New segment with four quick questions
on our guest, and had a little
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fun with DJ as our guinea pig,
so we wanna thank him for that.
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But if there's, there's nothing else,
think we'll just turn you loose in
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our conversation that had a little
swag to it, too, and I think we might
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drop a- … may drop a little beat
as- Beat or two … we go into this.
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Our conversation with DJ Jordan
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Welcome to Cultivated Marketer, where we
talk marketing professional development
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so your garden of opportunity grows.
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This is Brent Bowen.
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I'm Matt Tidwell.
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And
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I'm Julie Misone.
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And our guest today is the senior vice
president at Pinkston, a strategic
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communications firm known for helping
organizations navigate reputation, crises,
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and complex stakeholder environments.
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He brings deep expertise across
corporate communications, brand
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strategy, and reputation management,
with a focus on helping organizations
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lead with purpose and communicate
with clarity in high-stakes moments.
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Throughout his career, he has advised
leaders and organizations on how to
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align internal culture with external
messaging, ensuring that what a
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brand says matches how it shows up.
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He is also a strong advocate for
inclusive leadership and intentional
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communication, helping organizations
build trust across diverse audiences
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and evolving cultural expectations.
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DJ Jordan, welcome to the show.
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Great to be here.
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I'm excited.
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Well, hey, DJ.
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Hey, friends- Hey, Julie.
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… I like to say when I see you.
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I'm so glad you're here.
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Yeah.
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I'm gonna kick us off.
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So you have such an amazing career.
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Like, I just- … I personally
have fangirled a little bit about
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all the things that you have done.
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I know we were talking about, about this
before the show, but I was in rooms where
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people kept talking about your name.
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Like, "Oh, we should ask DJ if he can
help with that," and, "DJ would be good at
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this." So let's go back to the beginning.
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What originally drew you to communications
and marketing, and what are some of
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those early experiences that shaped
how you're thinking today in 2026?
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That's a great question.
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I actually started really
loving news media, TV and radio
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specifically, in high school.
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I was just really enamored by how
storytelling and covering the news, you
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know, what type of a career that could be.
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And so even in going back to probably
middle school even, you know, I
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was a big, huge, you know, just
TV junkie when it came to news.
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Also sports.
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I was interested in sports communications
and political communications, and my
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first love was actually wanting to
be a sportscaster, believe it or not.
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So that, that kinda whet my
appetite and, and when I went to
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undergrad, I played college football.
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And one of the things I was interested
in was broadcast television for football.
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And so I got to do, not only play,
but do some experimentation with
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our college campus radio station
and doing some production there.
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And so throughout my college time,
I had an interest in both sports
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communication and political communication.
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And then after school, came up to
DC, and kind of the rest is history.
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I actually started doing some work
on the sports side, a network called
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Comcast SportsNet, which is now NBC
Sports, I believe, or Monumental Sports
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Network, and that, that was really fun.
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But I started a family as well, and
I needed to take care of my family.
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Sports TV and sports broadcasting,
they don't pay jack squat.
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Sports journalism, oh my gosh.
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Maybe not
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a great…
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Me and my new wife and
everything, we were all starving.
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So I was like, "Let me give political
TV and broadcast news a try," and
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then that's when I went to CNN.
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I started in, in broadcast journalism
for sports too as well, DJ, and I
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remember sitting in broadcast class
being told by an anchor that I'd make
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$13,000- Wow … working in Chanute,
Kansas, and I left my classroom and
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went immediately up to my advisor-
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Oh, you are so
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smart … and said, "We,
we need to switch majors."
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"This isn't gonna happen.
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Investor comms, let's talk investor
comms." "I can make way more money."
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Brent, I wish I was as smart as you were.
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I was so idealistic, freaking idealistic
and naive, and I'm like, "Oh, I don't
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need to make money. It's all about
what you love, and then eventually the
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money will come." And then I started
a family and realized that I could
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not support myself or my family on,
my first salary was $22,000 a year.
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Wow.
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So, I mean, I got to do cool stuff.
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I got to interview Michael Jordan when he
was playing with the Washington Wizards-
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Wow … one of his last couple of years.
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You know, I got to cover the Baltimore
Ravens and my favorite football team, the
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Washington Commanders, then the Redskins.
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I got to do some really cool stuff,
but couldn't take care of my family.
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So yeah.
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What, what I hear you saying is that
nonprofit communications marketing and
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sports communications are very similar.
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You might not get paid a lot,
but you're going to do some cool
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things and learn a lot of things
that will help you in your career.
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Exactly.
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Nonprofit and charities, it's all
about making an impact and making
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sure the world is a better place.
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That's the true payment that you enjoy.
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Always.
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Always, for sure.
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Hey, DJ, great to have you on the
show, and, and you and I don't know
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each other, so this is always a treat
for me when I get to meet new stellar
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marketing communicators like yourself.
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But, and I was just in the process
of going through your, your
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LinkedIn bio and that type of thing.
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It's just amazing, kind of the range of
roles and environments and, and diversity
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within your professional experience.
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So let's take, let's take a trip back
down memory lane a little bit on that.
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What, what were the, some of those
key defining moments or decisions
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that helped stage or kind of helped
shape your, your path into the
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leadership role you're in now?
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Can you point back to one or
two of those either fork in the
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road moments or epiphany moments
or, or help us understand that?
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Yeah, I'll go back to a couple of
forks in the road in my career.
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The first one I would
say is working at CNN.
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Was here in the Washington, DC bureau,
and we really covered, you know, the
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federal government, politics, and global
affairs and foreign policy events.
00:11:16.094 --> 00:11:21.394
And I just fell in love with kind of
political media and covering everything
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that was going on in Washington, DC.
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There's never a dull moment here.
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There's always so much activity.
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And so I worked for a show called
The Situation Room with Wolf
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Blitzer, which is still on, and
working with him was amazing.
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He's incredible.
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He is a machine.
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And then I also worked on a show
that you guys may not be old enough,
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but it's called Larry King Live.
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I actually worked on that show for a
while, and that was a great experience.
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Are you kidding?
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As podcasters- … Larry King Live?
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That's, that's, that's like
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the- DJ's speaking to the
younger audience out there.
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I'm talking about
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me.
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He knows it's not us, I think- … but
he's just making us feel good.
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Yeah, so that was a lot of fun.
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I also got to do some field producing
on Capitol Hill and got to cover Capitol
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Hill congressional hearings, press
conferences, and things like that.
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And that's actually what piqued my
interest about the possibility of
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working in Capitol Hill and in Congress.
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And a l- few years later, after a few
opportunities and, and things, I actually
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went to Capitol Hill and worked as a
communications director for a couple
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of members of Congress, and I also
worked for a committee in the House.
00:12:24.604 --> 00:12:28.373
I worked for the House Small Business
Committee at the time, and that was
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really interesting 'cause the topic
and policy subject matter was something
00:12:32.294 --> 00:12:33.854
that im- impacted almost everyone.
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I mean, small businesses
really impact everyone.
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But I got to work with a, a large
number of members of Congress and
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got a front row seat in how policy is
made and debated on Washington, DC.
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So that, that was great and really
actually helps me today in, in
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how I know how to navigate the
federal government and Congress.
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And then I would say my first year at
Pinkston The transition from Capitol
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Hill to Pinkston to the PR world
was a massive transition for me.
00:13:00.628 --> 00:13:05.208
And most people who do that go from
journalism to, to kind of Capitol
00:13:05.208 --> 00:13:08.478
Hill and politics, fast-paced
environment to the PR world.
00:13:08.778 --> 00:13:12.287
There's quite a bit of an, an
adjustment, but I remember being at
00:13:12.288 --> 00:13:15.618
this job probably about four to five
months in when it really clicked.
00:13:15.748 --> 00:13:18.398
The light bulb went off, off for me,
'cause I was so used to a different
00:13:18.398 --> 00:13:23.508
pace of creating news and trying to get
attention of reporters and things like
00:13:23.508 --> 00:13:29.328
that, and then to, to really transitioning
to being a really smart strategist, coming
00:13:29.328 --> 00:13:36.128
together and developing a creative way
to get positive earned media coverage and
00:13:36.128 --> 00:13:40.848
also to message things and present things
as a marketer in a way that benefited
00:13:40.848 --> 00:13:42.988
my clients, and never looked back.
00:13:43.687 --> 00:13:44.427
That's interesting.
00:13:44.468 --> 00:13:48.528
Just as a quick follow-up on that,
because in, in teaching, which I do
00:13:48.528 --> 00:13:52.358
now, young marketing communicators, we
always stress the importance of having
00:13:52.358 --> 00:13:53.848
them think like a strategist, right?
00:13:53.848 --> 00:13:56.538
The critical thinking piece, it's
more than just about the tools.
00:13:56.977 --> 00:14:01.968
But, but I, I sort of caught that that
was a real kind of, again, hallmark moment
00:14:01.968 --> 00:14:06.347
for you when you were able to really sort
of raise your hand aggressively to say,
00:14:06.347 --> 00:14:08.048
"Hey, I feel like I'm a strategist now."
00:14:08.048 --> 00:14:11.488
And, and that's, it seems like that maybe
is when your career sort of took off.
00:14:11.608 --> 00:14:13.748
I didn't want to put words in your mouth,
but that's sort of what I got there.
00:14:13.898 --> 00:14:18.448
Oh, you're exactly right, because you look
at the objectives of your client, whoever
00:14:18.448 --> 00:14:23.657
you're working with, whether it's a
business objective, growth, new products,
00:14:23.657 --> 00:14:29.658
whatever, you look at that objective and
you utilize marketing communications PR
00:14:29.918 --> 00:14:31.638
in order to help them reach that goal.
00:14:32.018 --> 00:14:34.677
And you can be as
creative as you wanna be.
00:14:34.748 --> 00:14:38.018
Some people think that there's
only certain ways to tell a story.
00:14:38.038 --> 00:14:40.778
No, there's so many different
types of ways to tell a story.
00:14:41.097 --> 00:14:45.468
And using earned media is even more
challenging because you've gotta create
00:14:45.468 --> 00:14:50.548
something that is newsworthy, and it's,
that's becoming more and more challenging,
00:14:50.617 --> 00:14:52.198
but I actually enjoy the challenge.
00:14:52.517 --> 00:14:56.548
And, you know, being able to tell
your client, "I know that what you're
00:14:56.548 --> 00:14:59.888
talking about, you think everybody in
the world's gonna love and wanna know
00:14:59.888 --> 00:15:03.888
about, but I'm telling you, it's not
newsworthy. Let's shift. How about we
00:15:03.888 --> 00:15:08.248
do-- we, we look at this product, or
we look at this rollout, or we do some
00:15:08.248 --> 00:15:12.418
research or whatever to try to make
it newsworthy to, to get attention?"
00:15:12.468 --> 00:15:16.418
Or on the marketing side, "The way that
you're talking about your product is
00:15:16.418 --> 00:15:20.285
boring. You're not gonna sell anything,
sorry. Let's, let's, let's pivot and
00:15:20.285 --> 00:15:21.658
come up with a different strategy."
00:15:22.262 --> 00:15:26.922
You've had such a diverse
career and background.
00:15:26.922 --> 00:15:31.852
I mean, just going that from s- even
starting at the university experience
00:15:31.852 --> 00:15:36.441
and working in radio, then working
in a production environment for news
00:15:36.481 --> 00:15:41.422
to now looking at, at earned media,
and you just kinda outlined the,
00:15:41.431 --> 00:15:46.332
the notion of strategy to also where
your reporter background helped.
00:15:46.352 --> 00:15:52.422
But based on all that variety, is there
one aspect of the marcom experience
00:15:52.432 --> 00:15:56.271
that you've seemed to kind of enjoy
more, more than another as you've
00:15:56.271 --> 00:15:57.551
gone through your career journey?
00:15:58.714 --> 00:16:01.164
Man, I've enjoyed every
part of it so much.
00:16:01.214 --> 00:16:05.804
And believe it or not, I think I
still enjoy journalism and news media.
00:16:05.864 --> 00:16:09.974
I just consume so much of it, and
I enjoy how stories are told and
00:16:09.974 --> 00:16:11.684
reported on and things like that.
00:16:12.034 --> 00:16:16.243
But just to go back to the strategy piece,
that's what I enjoy by far the most.
00:16:16.244 --> 00:16:21.074
And thankfully, you know, in my
role now, I get to engage not
00:16:21.074 --> 00:16:27.004
only in-house marcoms leaders, but
I'm engaging C-suite executives.
00:16:27.393 --> 00:16:30.753
And Julie and I have talked about
this before, there be- there becomes a
00:16:30.754 --> 00:16:35.214
moment in a career person of a marcoms
where they see themselves not just
00:16:35.264 --> 00:16:41.384
as, like, you're taking an assignment
and you are executing, but you are
00:16:41.384 --> 00:16:47.463
actually to the point creating a
strategy that will inform an execution.
00:16:47.704 --> 00:16:52.953
And, and at that level, when you're
able to interface with CEOs and
00:16:52.953 --> 00:16:57.664
presidents and executive directors
and even, you know, other parts of the
00:16:57.664 --> 00:17:02.284
C-suite too, even the finance people,
convincing them of the strategy is a
00:17:02.284 --> 00:17:06.183
great challenge, but sometimes you need
to do that in order to be successful.
00:17:06.454 --> 00:17:12.194
You need to sell your campaign, your
initiative, your strategy with everybody
00:17:12.204 --> 00:17:16.624
who are decision-makers in order to be
successful, and I really enjoy that.
00:17:16.644 --> 00:17:21.264
I get to do a lot of that with
both corporate and also nonprofit.
00:17:21.294 --> 00:17:24.483
In the nonprofit world, sometimes
you gotta convince the board as
00:17:24.483 --> 00:17:26.934
well as the s- the, the executives.
00:17:26.953 --> 00:17:30.624
In the corporate world, you
definitely gotta convince the CEO,
00:17:30.644 --> 00:17:33.404
but you gotta convince the people
who are writing the checks too.
00:17:33.954 --> 00:17:34.564
Mm-hmm.
00:17:34.814 --> 00:17:38.264
Very true, 'cause you're often asking
for money for that execution- Mm-hmm
00:17:38.393 --> 00:17:39.443
of that said strategy
00:17:39.494 --> 00:17:40.044
That's right.
00:17:40.914 --> 00:17:44.853
The C- the CFO CFO's gonna have
tight strings on that purse.
00:17:44.914 --> 00:17:45.433
That's right.
00:17:45.654 --> 00:17:45.954
Yep.
00:17:46.254 --> 00:17:46.724
Okay.
00:17:46.744 --> 00:17:51.214
So DJ, you have this very cool title,
you know, for those who are climbing
00:17:51.214 --> 00:17:55.253
their career ladders, you finally
got the coveted senior vice president
00:17:55.464 --> 00:17:57.024
at Pinkston, which is really cool.
00:17:57.444 --> 00:18:00.484
But you right now, it seems like in
your career, you're really working at
00:18:00.484 --> 00:18:04.844
the intersection of communications and
reputation, which I love that word.
00:18:05.144 --> 00:18:07.734
I think it's something that a lot
of people, like, they don't think
00:18:07.734 --> 00:18:11.154
about that as, like, not a tactic,
but they don't think it as like a
00:18:11.154 --> 00:18:13.804
category they gotta think through when
they're thinking through the strategy.
00:18:14.313 --> 00:18:17.994
So talk to us about what that looks
like today, that, that intersection
00:18:17.994 --> 00:18:19.444
of communications reputation.
00:18:19.664 --> 00:18:22.184
What does that look like for your work
today as you're working with different
00:18:22.184 --> 00:18:25.354
clients, and where are you spending
most of your strategic focus now?
00:18:26.217 --> 00:18:27.197
Oh, that's a great point.
00:18:27.197 --> 00:18:31.757
So reputation is part of a brand,
a, a very important part of a brand,
00:18:31.818 --> 00:18:36.568
and it's something that's very,
very difficult to try to repair,
00:18:36.627 --> 00:18:41.637
so it's important to actually be
proactive in shaping a reputation.
00:18:41.697 --> 00:18:45.947
And you do that in so many different
ways, through marketing, through PR,
00:18:46.308 --> 00:18:50.017
through effective crisis management,
through planning for risks.
00:18:50.477 --> 00:18:55.568
Planning ahead of time for a crisis is
the best time to actually strategize
00:18:55.777 --> 00:18:59.347
a solution to the crisis, not when
you're in the middle of it, but
00:18:59.348 --> 00:19:01.017
actually doing that on the front end.
00:19:01.318 --> 00:19:05.168
And so a lot of my time is
spent on kinda three things.
00:19:05.398 --> 00:19:09.947
Number one, strategy development
of a marcom strategy, marketing or
00:19:09.947 --> 00:19:12.838
PR, so that strategy right there.
00:19:13.227 --> 00:19:17.598
Another part of my job, just as a
senior leader at my company, is kind
00:19:17.598 --> 00:19:21.977
of what you do, Matt, and that's a
little bit of teaching and imparting
00:19:22.047 --> 00:19:26.697
upon people, my entire team, what
that needs to look like, both in the
00:19:26.697 --> 00:19:29.227
strategy and e- and the execution.
00:19:29.767 --> 00:19:35.418
And then on, on the, the last part is
wil- really making sure that everybody
00:19:35.418 --> 00:19:40.378
is on board with what that strategy
is, and sometimes that is teaching the
00:19:40.378 --> 00:19:44.788
client or teaching the other C-suite
executives on what we need to do in
00:19:44.788 --> 00:19:46.628
order to protect the, the reputation.
00:19:46.928 --> 00:19:50.727
And so those three things are really
a lot of what I spend time on.
00:19:51.408 --> 00:19:54.078
I've got a follow-up question
that, this, this happens I
00:19:54.078 --> 00:19:55.338
think almost ev- every episode.
00:19:55.338 --> 00:19:56.647
I apologize every time.
00:19:56.967 --> 00:20:00.987
Okay, so I would love to know, do you
have a lot of… Do, do you see this
00:20:00.997 --> 00:20:04.357
often with companies and organizations
where they're proactively coming to
00:20:04.358 --> 00:20:08.868
you and saying, "Hey, help us plan
for crises. Help us plan in advance"?
00:20:08.908 --> 00:20:13.218
This is something, when I did my
master's at KU, Matt taught the crisis
00:20:13.218 --> 00:20:17.628
communications class, and it was my
favorite class of the entire program.
00:20:17.848 --> 00:20:20.858
I never, ever want to do
crisis communications.
00:20:20.928 --> 00:20:24.977
I like studying it, I like practicing it
in a classroom setting, but the actual
00:20:24.977 --> 00:20:27.517
execution of it, we need people like you-
00:20:27.517 --> 00:20:28.877
or Amy Whitfield, who was a guest.
00:20:29.517 --> 00:20:34.268
So talk to us about where are you s- Like,
do you have companies and organizations
00:20:34.268 --> 00:20:36.618
saying, "All right, guys, help us
plan," or are you finding that a lot
00:20:36.618 --> 00:20:40.088
of people are not planning for crises
in advance, and then they're having
00:20:40.088 --> 00:20:41.828
to repair their reputation on the fly?
00:20:42.702 --> 00:20:46.802
Yeah, I would say that a lot of companies
don't naturally want to plan ahead for
00:20:46.802 --> 00:20:50.252
a crisis, especially those that don't
experience that, that much of the--
00:20:50.272 --> 00:20:52.142
They aren't in more of a riskier area.
00:20:52.522 --> 00:20:55.852
But a lot of the clients are coming
to us oftentimes because we're
00:20:55.852 --> 00:21:00.562
in Washington, DC, we know public
policy, we know political advocacy.
00:21:00.882 --> 00:21:04.552
And so most of the time, they're
gonna be a little bit more
00:21:04.602 --> 00:21:08.462
understanding of risk because of
cultural issues and political issues.
00:21:08.502 --> 00:21:11.712
I mean, those are the things that
you, you normally don't wanna talk
00:21:11.722 --> 00:21:13.332
about at a dinner party, right?
00:21:13.332 --> 00:21:18.931
Religion, politics, race, you know, things
like that, where a lot of the clients
00:21:18.932 --> 00:21:22.182
that we work with, they're already gonna
have a little bit more propensity or
00:21:22.182 --> 00:21:24.102
sensitivities to those type of risks.
00:21:24.352 --> 00:21:28.642
And so I would say probably,
you know, 70, 75% know that
00:21:28.642 --> 00:21:30.012
they need to plan ahead for it.
00:21:30.341 --> 00:21:34.622
Only about, unfortunately, 25 to
50% actually devote the resources to
00:21:34.622 --> 00:21:37.942
actually do it, because that means
you gotta, you gotta pay us- Wow
00:21:37.982 --> 00:21:42.992
to work with you to put together a
robust crisis communications plan.
00:21:43.002 --> 00:21:45.022
And this isn't just a week exercise.
00:21:45.362 --> 00:21:49.921
Oftentimes, this may take 30 to
60 days to really do the job, you
00:21:49.921 --> 00:21:51.961
know, that, that is really required.
00:21:52.152 --> 00:21:56.352
And that can look like a
deep dive of your company and
00:21:56.362 --> 00:21:59.182
analysis of what risks lay ahead.
00:21:59.572 --> 00:22:05.112
Also, you need to look at past
crises as well to be able to predict
00:22:05.122 --> 00:22:06.572
if that could come back again.
00:22:06.572 --> 00:22:09.771
You never know, especially with
legal matters, things like that
00:22:09.772 --> 00:22:11.301
could come up in, in the future.
00:22:11.622 --> 00:22:16.452
And then it also takes spending a
lot of time on kind of war gaming
00:22:16.452 --> 00:22:20.892
out what the messaging will need to
be and the, the actions that will
00:22:20.892 --> 00:22:22.942
need to be to respond to the crisis.
00:22:23.282 --> 00:22:28.391
And that's, that could be a really
tedious exercise, but it is so worth it.
00:22:28.761 --> 00:22:29.881
It is so worth it.
00:22:30.161 --> 00:22:31.642
The money is worth it.
00:22:31.872 --> 00:22:35.952
And I would just tell all the marcoms
professionals that are listening to
00:22:35.952 --> 00:22:39.032
us today, if you've been trying to
convince your bosses to do a crisis
00:22:39.032 --> 00:22:43.852
management exercise, just bring
the, the financial case to them.
00:22:44.032 --> 00:22:44.732
That's good, yeah.
00:22:45.011 --> 00:22:50.552
A crisis at, at a particular company could
cost five to ten percent of a stock price.
00:22:50.872 --> 00:22:54.372
And bring them specific examples
of where this has happened,
00:22:54.672 --> 00:22:56.142
even within their industry.
00:22:56.172 --> 00:23:00.046
So if you're corporate, even if you're
private You're talking about real dollars
00:23:00.056 --> 00:23:05.916
that are impacted by a crisis management
issue, whether it is a natural disaster,
00:23:05.926 --> 00:23:10.326
whether it is a failure of leadership,
whe-whether it is an abuse issue.
00:23:10.556 --> 00:23:11.876
There's so many types.
00:23:12.025 --> 00:23:15.715
Whether there's a, a protest
due to a political issue.
00:23:16.106 --> 00:23:19.516
There, there's just, in this day
and age, everybody has a microphone.
00:23:19.516 --> 00:23:24.976
Everybody has their own TV with social
media now, and so these protests look
00:23:24.976 --> 00:23:28.786
a whole lot different nowadays, and so
you wanna be ready for all of that, and
00:23:28.786 --> 00:23:30.486
you wanna plan for every type of risk.
00:23:30.825 --> 00:23:35.336
On average, whenever we're doing a crisis
management plan for someone, we are
00:23:35.336 --> 00:23:41.486
probably identifying anywhere from, you
know, 10 to as many as 30 different types
00:23:41.526 --> 00:23:43.615
of crises or risks that could happen.
00:23:44.036 --> 00:23:48.336
And then you are also working on, let's
go ahead and develop some messaging now.
00:23:48.356 --> 00:23:51.135
Let's go ahead and develop
a plan of execution now.
00:23:51.385 --> 00:23:56.934
If this happens, then this And I tell
you, it, it'll help everyone sleep better
00:23:56.934 --> 00:23:58.734
at night knowing that you have that.
00:23:59.164 --> 00:24:03.533
And, you know, the best crisis
management is the, the type that kills
00:24:03.533 --> 00:24:05.603
a story before it ever becomes public.
00:24:05.873 --> 00:24:08.793
Sometimes you only do
that by reacting quickly.
00:24:09.313 --> 00:24:10.204
It's speed.
00:24:10.643 --> 00:24:15.744
If you are able to, you know, jump on
an issue before it's ever publicized,
00:24:16.234 --> 00:24:20.264
you're able to talk, or you're able to
talk to a reporter from the local TV
00:24:20.264 --> 00:24:25.563
station and educate them on why this is
not a crisis, and you prevent them from
00:24:25.563 --> 00:24:28.283
doing that story, you've just won the day.
00:24:28.424 --> 00:24:32.293
You've won-- you've prevented so much
other issues from, from occurring.
00:24:32.883 --> 00:24:33.484
Wow.
00:24:33.484 --> 00:24:37.254
Boy, I, I could… Let me first of
all just say, I can't say a, a louder
00:24:37.283 --> 00:24:40.393
amen to everything you just covered,
DJ, 'cause I just finished teaching my
00:24:40.393 --> 00:24:44.184
crisis communications class, and it's
just like you took my syllabus and you,
00:24:44.833 --> 00:24:45.843
you s- you, you did a- He listed it
00:24:45.843 --> 00:24:47.603
very quick little 60-second synopsis.
00:24:47.603 --> 00:24:47.764
DJ,
00:24:49.694 --> 00:24:52.684
you just earned yourself
a guest lecture request.
00:24:53.004 --> 00:24:54.063
I'm seeing it.
00:24:54.414 --> 00:24:55.643
I'm seeing it.
00:24:55.774 --> 00:24:59.823
As somebody that's taught for Matt
before, I'm seeing this right now.
00:24:59.823 --> 00:25:01.378
I'm seeing the email
get written right now.
00:25:01.378 --> 00:25:01.563
Let's
00:25:01.563 --> 00:25:01.748
go.
00:25:01.748 --> 00:25:02.303
Let's do it.
00:25:02.303 --> 00:25:02.323
The
00:25:03.524 --> 00:25:04.143
email writes itself.
00:25:04.243 --> 00:25:04.863
I'm ashamed.
00:25:04.924 --> 00:25:05.143
Kansas
00:25:05.454 --> 00:25:07.373
is one of the few states
I've never been to.
00:25:07.424 --> 00:25:08.113
I can't believe it.
00:25:08.204 --> 00:25:08.353
Ah.
00:25:08.823 --> 00:25:09.934
Oh, come on.
00:25:10.464 --> 00:25:10.833
Nice.
00:25:10.883 --> 00:25:13.613
But anyway, I'm kind-- This is kind
of, my question's kind of related
00:25:13.633 --> 00:25:17.883
in a, a bit because we're living
in a moment where, I mean, we're
00:25:17.883 --> 00:25:19.123
gonna talk about the T word, right?
00:25:19.123 --> 00:25:22.514
The trust word, which is all of our
stock and trade as, as communicators.
00:25:22.843 --> 00:25:26.734
But we're living in this moment where
trust is probably more fragile than
00:25:26.754 --> 00:25:30.184
ever before, and you know, you can talk
about the reasons for that, the deep
00:25:30.194 --> 00:25:33.383
polarization that we have in this country,
which is just probably deeper than any
00:25:33.383 --> 00:25:38.254
of us can ever remember, the sources of
trust and, and how that's been eroded over
00:25:38.254 --> 00:25:42.853
time to kind of the traditional sources of
trust that certainly when I broke into the
00:25:42.863 --> 00:25:46.363
business we could kind of count on now,
you know, people are turning away from.
00:25:46.654 --> 00:25:48.553
And so attention is fragmented.
00:25:48.893 --> 00:25:51.743
You know, AI has stepped in, so
now everybody's skeptical about
00:25:51.743 --> 00:25:53.123
what's coming across their feeds.
00:25:53.123 --> 00:25:55.493
I mean, when's the last time any of
us looked at our feeds and thought,
00:25:55.514 --> 00:25:57.053
"Oh, well, this is legitimate," right?
00:25:57.413 --> 00:26:02.143
And so we're just living in this time
where trust is just, it, it seems like the
00:26:02.143 --> 00:26:04.073
pillars are just crumbling in front of us.
00:26:04.323 --> 00:26:06.694
How do you counsel companies
at a time like that?
00:26:06.694 --> 00:26:08.663
I mean, should they be more guarded?
00:26:08.684 --> 00:26:10.493
Should they not take stands?
00:26:10.504 --> 00:26:14.163
Should they double down maybe
on their crisis communications?
00:26:14.184 --> 00:26:18.193
It just seems like it's, for somebody who
counsels businesses in this time when,
00:26:18.484 --> 00:26:22.323
you know, nobody feels like they can trust
anybody would be e- extremely difficult.
00:26:22.323 --> 00:26:23.694
So how do you react to that?
00:26:24.118 --> 00:26:26.197
Man, I have so many reactions to that.
00:26:26.228 --> 00:26:27.138
You're exactly right.
00:26:27.138 --> 00:26:31.268
We're, we're in quite an age right
now where social media and AI
00:26:31.288 --> 00:26:34.968
and, and, and things are really
impacting the, the level of trust.
00:26:34.998 --> 00:26:38.638
But you'll actually see a lot of
institutions right now are struggling
00:26:38.638 --> 00:26:42.978
with trust, and whether that's, you know,
academic, whether it's philanthropy,
00:26:42.978 --> 00:26:48.058
whether it's corporate, politicians, so
on and so on, the- it's a major issue.
00:26:48.368 --> 00:26:51.808
And so my, my advice and our advice
at Pinkston is, you know, number
00:26:51.808 --> 00:26:57.337
one, that means that you really gotta
actually double down on your branding
00:26:57.368 --> 00:26:59.007
and your reputation management.
00:26:59.387 --> 00:27:02.988
You, you actually will need
to devote even more resources
00:27:03.058 --> 00:27:04.338
to that in this day and age.
00:27:04.338 --> 00:27:05.197
You gotta be smart.
00:27:05.248 --> 00:27:07.947
You gotta be really,
really smart in doing that.
00:27:08.257 --> 00:27:11.937
And there's actually a couple
of positive-- there's pros and
00:27:11.937 --> 00:27:14.528
cons to where we are in society.
00:27:14.877 --> 00:27:20.208
Some of the pros are, number one, you can
create content with less resources than
00:27:20.208 --> 00:27:22.568
you could 10 years ago because of AI.
00:27:22.988 --> 00:27:27.068
And because of the prevalence of
social media, you can take your
00:27:27.078 --> 00:27:32.197
messaging and your products and your
comms directly to people in a, in a
00:27:32.197 --> 00:27:34.398
less expensive way than years before.
00:27:34.568 --> 00:27:38.068
Number two, and this, believe it
or not, can be a pro, a strength,
00:27:38.128 --> 00:27:42.488
is that our society attention
span is crazy, crazy short.
00:27:42.958 --> 00:27:45.597
And belie- you may be thinking to
yourself, "What? That's a negative.
00:27:45.598 --> 00:27:49.158
How can that possibly be a positive?"
It's also a positive because they
00:27:49.158 --> 00:27:53.648
will forget whatever they were
mad at you about two months ago.
00:27:54.488 --> 00:27:56.928
They're on to the next rage issue.
00:27:58.368 --> 00:27:59.937
This does not work with
my kids though, though.
00:27:59.988 --> 00:28:00.748
They, they don't forget.
00:28:02.728 --> 00:28:03.908
Yeah, I can, I can understand.
00:28:03.947 --> 00:28:06.787
My boys actually forget
quickly, but the girls do not.
00:28:06.818 --> 00:28:08.308
They, they hold a grudge.
00:28:08.337 --> 00:28:09.917
But yeah, you're right.
00:28:09.937 --> 00:28:15.888
So, you know, because there are
so many waves of news cycles and
00:28:15.918 --> 00:28:20.608
trending topics on social media,
people actually do move on faster.
00:28:20.648 --> 00:28:25.368
And so that's actually a very important
principle to remember in the middle of
00:28:25.368 --> 00:28:28.708
a crisis management issue because if
you're in it, oftentimes you think your
00:28:28.708 --> 00:28:32.278
world is coming to an end, "Oh my gosh,
what are we gonna do?" And you either
00:28:32.308 --> 00:28:37.038
react dramatically or sometimes you do
nothing at all, you, you can be paralyzed.
00:28:37.228 --> 00:28:41.428
But just think of the fact that you
wanna turn this news cycle, this crisis
00:28:41.428 --> 00:28:48.446
management from two months to two days
And that might mean acting quickly to
00:28:48.446 --> 00:28:51.456
get all of the content and information
that you need to get out quickly.
00:28:51.456 --> 00:28:53.826
If it's a issue, if it's
a issue, face it head-on.
00:28:54.295 --> 00:28:57.396
People will respect you more
for that if you own up to it.
00:28:57.886 --> 00:28:58.726
And guess what?
00:28:58.926 --> 00:29:03.685
Three news cycles later, people
have moved on, and people are
00:29:04.066 --> 00:29:06.556
forgetting faster than ever before.
00:29:06.786 --> 00:29:10.726
They may remember, "Oh, there wa- there
is that one thing that that particular
00:29:10.746 --> 00:29:14.556
company dealt with, but I remember they
took responsibility for it," you know.
00:29:14.776 --> 00:29:19.016
And in the end, that, that's a
respectable thing in, in today's age.
00:29:19.476 --> 00:29:25.136
But yeah, I just encourage more and
more companies to lean in, and also to
00:29:25.166 --> 00:29:30.096
devote resources and time and energy
to learning all of these different
00:29:30.106 --> 00:29:32.486
trends and tools that are out there.
00:29:32.486 --> 00:29:36.726
The innovation is going fast, and the,
and, you know, that, that's a good thing.
00:29:36.806 --> 00:29:37.705
But you gotta learn it.
00:29:37.736 --> 00:29:39.655
You gotta actually st- stick with it.
00:29:39.695 --> 00:29:44.916
And old dudes like me sometimes are
upset that we have to learn all these
00:29:44.916 --> 00:29:49.595
new trend- I was like, "Dang, I just
learned, you know, Claude 3.2. Now I,
00:29:49.736 --> 00:29:51.236
now I gotta learn this," or whatever.
00:29:51.686 --> 00:29:52.296
But it's worth it.
00:29:52.326 --> 00:29:53.526
You gotta stay in the game.
00:29:53.686 --> 00:29:54.716
You gotta devote time.
00:29:54.736 --> 00:29:56.395
You gotta go to the conferences.
00:29:56.736 --> 00:30:01.266
You gotta go to, if y- if you're on
the PR side, and especially on crisis
00:30:01.266 --> 00:30:08.076
management, continue to engage reporters,
continue to engage news media, because
00:30:08.085 --> 00:30:11.406
you're continuing to learn what they are
dealing with and what the newsroom is.
00:30:11.406 --> 00:30:13.606
You think it's hard
what you're doing today?
00:30:14.066 --> 00:30:18.326
It's 10 times harder for reporters
to cover the news in a way that they
00:30:18.326 --> 00:30:21.386
want to, versus what we have to do.
00:30:21.436 --> 00:30:23.816
Their news cycles are faster.
00:30:23.816 --> 00:30:26.366
Their editors are more
demanding than ever before.
00:30:26.665 --> 00:30:31.185
And our job in PR is really to
help them to do their job in a way
00:30:31.186 --> 00:30:32.916
that's gonna eventually benefit you.
00:30:32.966 --> 00:30:38.596
So devoting the time and the resources on
leaning in on all of that is so important.
00:30:38.796 --> 00:30:42.566
If you're a PR person listening right
now, a marketing comms person, yes,
00:30:42.576 --> 00:30:47.706
let your, let your staff go do those
coffees, those dinners, those happy
00:30:47.706 --> 00:30:51.385
hours, whatever, to, to continue to
engage reporters, because it's gonna
00:30:51.396 --> 00:30:52.886
benefit your organization overall
00:30:53.454 --> 00:30:56.224
Yeah, I love that message about
emphasizing engagement even
00:30:56.224 --> 00:30:57.323
in this environment, right?
00:30:57.323 --> 00:31:00.664
Where it might seem counterintuitive
in a way, but to, to just bury your
00:31:00.664 --> 00:31:01.654
head in the sand would be tough.
00:31:01.774 --> 00:31:04.644
Hey, just a quick follow-up, 'cause I love
to ask this of our, our guests we have
00:31:04.644 --> 00:31:07.874
on that are in agencies and, and part of
my role as a, the faculty member, it's
00:31:07.874 --> 00:31:10.664
almost a given, but what are you seeing
for the, you know, the young folks that
00:31:10.673 --> 00:31:12.393
you're hiring in your agency these days?
00:31:12.393 --> 00:31:15.553
What, what impresses you about the
Gen Z crowd maybe that are coming
00:31:15.553 --> 00:31:17.024
into your shop for the first time?
00:31:17.264 --> 00:31:19.874
Maybe there's an area that
you think they could be a, a
00:31:19.874 --> 00:31:21.644
little bit better at s- skill.
00:31:21.644 --> 00:31:23.533
It could be hard skills,
could be soft skills that they
00:31:23.543 --> 00:31:24.473
sh- could be different at.
00:31:24.474 --> 00:31:26.094
What, what are you observing
from our young folks?
00:31:26.704 --> 00:31:28.713
Man, that's a really,
really great question.
00:31:28.743 --> 00:31:30.324
I'm observing a couple of things.
00:31:30.384 --> 00:31:32.714
There's a little bit of a surprise.
00:31:32.724 --> 00:31:37.584
Surprisingly, I'm seeing some
anxiety about the industry overall,
00:31:37.584 --> 00:31:39.224
and they are tiptoeing into it.
00:31:39.754 --> 00:31:42.973
Uh, whether they're trying to navigate,
you know, how do I navigate with AI?
00:31:43.823 --> 00:31:46.244
How do I present to this client?
00:31:46.263 --> 00:31:49.114
I'm not sure if I'm
quite ready to present.
00:31:49.134 --> 00:31:50.204
You know, things like that.
00:31:50.594 --> 00:31:52.594
And I'm, I'm seeing some of that.
00:31:52.854 --> 00:31:55.464
And I'm seeing, you know, I'll,
I'll just start with the negatives.
00:31:55.783 --> 00:31:58.124
You know, also a lot of
distracted young people.
00:31:58.444 --> 00:32:02.604
And I understand, you know, Gen Z,
you're navigating a lot of stuff right
00:32:02.604 --> 00:32:07.264
now, whether it's affordability of
affor- you know, getting a house and an
00:32:07.264 --> 00:32:12.404
apartment while trying to navigate the
beginning of your career, which you're
00:32:12.404 --> 00:32:16.806
getting news every day that Organizations
are laying people off because of AI.
00:32:16.816 --> 00:32:17.996
I, I get that.
00:32:18.036 --> 00:32:18.966
That's a challenge.
00:32:19.446 --> 00:32:23.406
And so it's creating a little bit of
hesitancy in some of the young people
00:32:23.656 --> 00:32:26.065
that we have as interns and new hires.
00:32:26.245 --> 00:32:29.296
However, with that said, a couple
of positives that I'm seeing is that
00:32:29.306 --> 00:32:33.106
they're, they're coming in wanting
to play with tools in a different
00:32:33.106 --> 00:32:38.566
way than, you know, some of our older
staff here, and they say, "I'd, I'd
00:32:38.566 --> 00:32:39.906
like to, I'd like to learn that."
00:32:40.016 --> 00:32:44.585
And they're coming back half a day
later able to teach us, the rest of
00:32:44.586 --> 00:32:46.365
us, you know, on this latest tool.
00:32:46.365 --> 00:32:46.826
Half a
00:32:46.826 --> 00:32:47.236
day later.
00:32:47.276 --> 00:32:47.516
Wow.
00:32:47.816 --> 00:32:48.286
Interesting.
00:32:49.026 --> 00:32:51.166
And I, and I am here for that.
00:32:51.216 --> 00:32:52.236
I love that.
00:32:52.236 --> 00:32:52.626
Yeah.
00:32:52.626 --> 00:32:58.036
I love it, you know, when our, our
25-year-old account executive is gonna
00:32:58.036 --> 00:33:02.516
train me and our partners on some new
technology, so that, that's a big thing.
00:33:02.726 --> 00:33:06.055
And I will tell you, the young
people who are coming out that are
00:33:06.056 --> 00:33:09.055
self-starters are gonna exceed.
00:33:09.106 --> 00:33:12.696
They are going to just
absolutely crush it.
00:33:12.696 --> 00:33:18.165
If they are able to come to you
with ideas or with suggestions, it
00:33:18.165 --> 00:33:20.266
just-- they, they set themself apart.
00:33:20.306 --> 00:33:23.565
And so if there's any students
listening to this right now, that's,
00:33:23.606 --> 00:33:28.316
that's one of the biggest, like, skill
sets that you can impress employers.
00:33:28.536 --> 00:33:32.906
Come as-- Do your internship and
instead of saying, "I've do- I
00:33:32.936 --> 00:33:36.376
did these two projects today, this
is cool, you know, I'm done in an
00:33:36.376 --> 00:33:41.226
hour, I'm gonna chill or, or read or
whatever," that's not the right mindset.
00:33:41.495 --> 00:33:43.366
You wanna be thinking
about what else can you do.
00:33:43.686 --> 00:33:47.686
You wanna be thinking two steps
ahead of your boss, saying, "I know
00:33:47.686 --> 00:33:51.116
that our client, you know, we're
doing this presentation three days
00:33:51.116 --> 00:33:54.516
from now, but I was thinking if we
added a slide about X, Y, and Z,
00:33:54.745 --> 00:33:55.946
you know, that'd be really great.
00:33:55.946 --> 00:33:58.706
Can I… Should I go ahead and jump
in and start on something like that?
00:33:58.706 --> 00:34:02.725
I can start ideating." You stand
out so well just from that.
00:34:02.866 --> 00:34:06.816
And so you don't have to know everything,
but having the right attitude and being a
00:34:06.816 --> 00:34:10.505
self-starter will really, really, really
help you in the start of your career.
00:34:11.054 --> 00:34:11.304
Yeah.
00:34:11.464 --> 00:34:12.224
Very well said.
00:34:12.364 --> 00:34:14.404
And I'm sure you're teaching
your kids that, Matt
00:34:14.793 --> 00:34:15.684
You know, we, we try.
00:34:15.714 --> 00:34:16.514
The struggle is real.
00:34:21.604 --> 00:34:24.694
A moment ago, DJ, you were talking
about leaning into the notion
00:34:24.694 --> 00:34:26.764
of h- and short attention span.
00:34:26.764 --> 00:34:32.494
So we as well, in this, in this show,
are gonna be leaning into short attention
00:34:32.494 --> 00:34:35.974
span, and you're gonna be the guinea
pig- Oh, Lord … for a new segment
00:34:35.984 --> 00:34:39.424
that we have, which is four quick
questions, which are intended to be
00:34:39.844 --> 00:34:42.004
for the short attention span crowd.
00:34:42.004 --> 00:34:45.783
So we're gonna ask you, we're gonna
alternate here, and each of us will
00:34:45.863 --> 00:34:51.114
ask you at least one quick question,
and anticipate a… You've been
00:34:51.114 --> 00:34:55.624
beautiful in the, the you can see the
PR experience in the great crafted
00:34:55.634 --> 00:34:58.813
three-minute response through the
course of our conversation here.
00:34:58.813 --> 00:34:59.344
I love it.
00:34:59.664 --> 00:35:01.793
But these can even be m- more succinct.
00:35:01.804 --> 00:35:08.134
So I'm gonna lead off and ask you,
because I, I still have LinkedIn envy.
00:35:08.254 --> 00:35:09.644
Your… of other people.
00:35:09.654 --> 00:35:12.404
Fa- your favorite follow on
LinkedIn right now is who?
00:35:12.514 --> 00:35:14.114
Oh, Julie, by far.
00:35:14.924 --> 00:35:15.254
Mom
00:35:17.644 --> 00:35:17.844
Mine
00:35:22.273 --> 00:35:22.353
too.
00:35:22.353 --> 00:35:23.063
What a coincidence.
00:35:23.063 --> 00:35:23.564
What a coincidence.
00:35:23.564 --> 00:35:24.084
You know what?
00:35:24.434 --> 00:35:26.774
She's a host, so I can't, you
know, brown-nose too hard.
00:35:26.994 --> 00:35:27.744
Actually-
00:35:28.784 --> 00:35:30.484
She's there for it though, DJ.
00:35:30.494 --> 00:35:31.234
She really is … yeah,
00:35:31.244 --> 00:35:32.124
I like Axios.
00:35:33.144 --> 00:35:36.784
Axios is a- Oh, yeah … news media
outlet, and they do, they release a lot of
00:35:36.794 --> 00:35:38.834
research and, and good original content.
00:35:39.103 --> 00:35:39.753
Beautiful.
00:35:40.034 --> 00:35:44.344
DJ, what's one overused buzzword
you would ban immediately?
00:35:44.974 --> 00:35:45.824
Oh my gosh.
00:35:46.294 --> 00:35:50.014
The word right and using it too much.
00:35:50.044 --> 00:35:51.403
You've heard people who present-
00:35:51.443 --> 00:35:51.653
Right
00:35:52.273 --> 00:35:55.754
… and, like, they, they will use the
word right three times in a sentence
00:35:55.813 --> 00:35:57.994
in a presentation, and I'm like, okay.
00:35:58.124 --> 00:35:58.724
Yeah.
00:35:58.763 --> 00:36:01.474
That, that has replaced, you
know, with a lot of people who
00:36:01.474 --> 00:36:02.644
love to hear themselves talk.
00:36:02.884 --> 00:36:03.174
So.
00:36:03.794 --> 00:36:04.334
Most of those
00:36:04.334 --> 00:36:04.664
folks
00:36:04.664 --> 00:36:05.734
are from Philadelphia,
00:36:07.634 --> 00:36:07.684
I think.
00:36:07.684 --> 00:36:09.133
My least favorite city, by the way.
00:36:09.414 --> 00:36:09.874
Yeah.
00:36:10.584 --> 00:36:13.193
Ooh, throwing some shade.
00:36:13.193 --> 00:36:13.603
Okay.
00:36:13.603 --> 00:36:15.664
What is your go-to emoji?
00:36:15.664 --> 00:36:18.494
If you're texting me,
you're not an emoji user.
00:36:18.544 --> 00:36:19.124
I am.
00:36:19.124 --> 00:36:21.774
But if you are using an emoji,
what's your go-to emoji?
00:36:21.944 --> 00:36:22.954
Oh, man, that's a good one.
00:36:23.154 --> 00:36:25.974
The thinking emoji, for sure, because-
00:36:26.024 --> 00:36:27.164
Which one's the thinking one?
00:36:27.564 --> 00:36:29.074
Is it- The one where you like- … is
it like pointing to the head?
00:36:29.124 --> 00:36:29.574
Yeah.
00:36:29.653 --> 00:36:30.013
Yeah.
00:36:30.063 --> 00:36:32.924
Oh, like this- Yeah … where
they're, like, holding the chin
00:36:33.023 --> 00:36:33.643
Intensively.
00:36:33.693 --> 00:36:37.124
Yeah, because, you know, I'm old now,
so, like, half of the stuff that's
00:36:37.124 --> 00:36:39.524
texted to me, I don't know what
you're talking about, so I'm just
00:36:39.554 --> 00:36:42.464
like- And so I got, I got four kids.
00:36:42.553 --> 00:36:42.614
Fourteen.
00:36:42.723 --> 00:36:48.154
Yeah, I got four kids too, including a
14-year-old who talks in Gen Z slang.
00:36:48.154 --> 00:36:48.913
So I'm like-
00:36:49.004 --> 00:36:49.424
Oh, yes
00:36:49.743 --> 00:36:52.864
… if she takes, if she says- Bring up
one of those … "I'm cooked," or, "Am
00:36:52.864 --> 00:36:58.873
I right?" Or- Yes … y- "Chopped" or-
Yeah all of those things, I'm like, "Huh?
00:36:59.734 --> 00:36:59.904
What?"
00:37:00.533 --> 00:37:03.163
So when you send the thinking
emoji, you're basically
00:37:03.163 --> 00:37:04.614
expressing, "I'm confused."
00:37:04.614 --> 00:37:08.384
When I see it, I almost feel judged, where
someone's like- … "Really? That's what
00:37:08.384 --> 00:37:10.433
you said?" So that's helpful to know.
00:37:10.634 --> 00:37:11.663
That's the problem with emojis.
00:37:11.723 --> 00:37:11.933
Yeah.
00:37:12.823 --> 00:37:15.674
DJ, what's your, what's your
walkout retirement song?
00:37:16.074 --> 00:37:21.913
Oh, Lil Wayne, a song
from 2009- … Go DJ.
00:37:23.104 --> 00:37:26.973
And you probably, you f- if you don't know
what I'm ta- you don't know, that's fine.
00:37:27.473 --> 00:37:27.493
No.
00:37:27.493 --> 00:37:29.834
But the song is like, "Go DJ.
00:37:30.013 --> 00:37:31.334
That's my DJ.
00:37:31.453 --> 00:37:31.774
Go DJ.
00:37:32.923 --> 00:37:36.654
That's my DJ." In pre-production,
you can add it to this podcast if
00:37:36.663 --> 00:37:38.254
you want to, but yeah, Lil Wayne.
00:37:39.163 --> 00:37:39.214
Oh.
00:37:39.703 --> 00:37:42.513
I'm getting rights to that.
00:37:42.513 --> 00:37:42.625
Lil Wayne, Go DJ.
00:37:42.625 --> 00:37:44.614
This one'll, this episode'll
have a little swag to it.
00:37:44.614 --> 00:37:44.863
There you go.
00:37:45.084 --> 00:37:45.384
There you go.
00:37:49.484 --> 00:37:49.944
Awesome.
00:37:49.944 --> 00:37:50.424
Awesome.
00:37:50.424 --> 00:37:52.323
I loved having you as
the guinea pig for this.
00:37:52.343 --> 00:37:53.203
Thank you so much.
00:37:53.254 --> 00:37:53.924
It's awesome.
00:37:54.074 --> 00:37:54.564
Oh, you're welcome.
00:37:54.564 --> 00:37:55.104
That was fun.
00:37:55.394 --> 00:37:55.683
Yeah.
00:37:55.683 --> 00:37:58.263
You've been, you've been so great
and gracious with your time.
00:37:58.263 --> 00:38:00.814
Is there anything else you'd like
to mention that we may have missed?
00:38:01.373 --> 00:38:04.294
No, I would just encourage, you know,
your listeners, especially those
00:38:04.303 --> 00:38:08.753
mar- marcom professionals that are
out there, is, you know, some people
00:38:08.754 --> 00:38:12.683
can be discouraged in this economy
right now, and I would just encourage
00:38:12.683 --> 00:38:14.894
you, you know, not to be discouraged.
00:38:14.924 --> 00:38:16.314
This is a new frontier.
00:38:16.364 --> 00:38:18.703
There's a lot of change happening,
and there will be a lot of
00:38:18.703 --> 00:38:20.353
change over the next 24 months.
00:38:20.723 --> 00:38:21.484
Embrace it.
00:38:21.524 --> 00:38:23.174
Lean in with confidence.
00:38:23.243 --> 00:38:24.584
That's what I would encourage you to do.
00:38:24.774 --> 00:38:25.013
Love
00:38:25.013 --> 00:38:25.214
it.
00:38:25.564 --> 00:38:26.024
Awesome.
00:38:26.354 --> 00:38:29.624
Awesome message of hope and a
little confidence there, DJ.
00:38:29.904 --> 00:38:32.783
It's been a tremendous time
that we've had with you.
00:38:32.783 --> 00:38:34.654
W- really appreciate you joining us.
00:38:34.824 --> 00:38:35.564
Yeah, this was fun.
00:38:35.564 --> 00:38:36.283
Thanks for having me on.
00:38:36.394 --> 00:38:36.754
You bet.
00:38:36.754 --> 00:38:37.274
Thanks.
00:38:37.444 --> 00:38:41.064
If you found value in today's
episode, check us out on our
00:38:41.064 --> 00:38:43.484
website, cultivatedmarketer.com.
00:38:44.263 --> 00:38:48.493
You'll also be able to subscribe to
us, rate us, and leave us a comment on
00:38:48.493 --> 00:38:55.223
your favorite podcast platform, such as
Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and Stitcher.
00:38:56.134 --> 00:39:01.084
Remember, a garden of opportunity
grows with Cultivated Marketer.