Robert Goodman: Hi, and welcome to the Crime Fiction Down Under podcast, where we review and discuss the latest in Australian crime fiction releases and news. I'm Robert Goodman. I review books for Pile by the Bed and was a longtime judge of the Australian Crime Writers Association Ned Kelly Awards. Joining me is my co-host Jackie Horwood, library nerd, reader, writer, and former Ned Kelly Judge and Judge Wrangler for the Australian Crime Writers Association. And Jackie was also former convener of the Davitt Award, for Sisters in Crime. Hi, Jackie.
Jacqui: Hi Robert. I am very excited to be starting this podcast with you.
Robert Goodman: It is really exciting. People often look down on books that sit in a particular genre, be it romance or science fiction or crime, but the crime genre in particular has always been a great lens for exploring particular societies, places, and people. Australian crime authors are particularly good at this and have been at it for a long time. I'm thinking of authors like Peter Corras, Peter Temple, and Kerry Greenwood. And I'm hoping we'll get a chance in future to talk about some of our favorites from the past. But in the last fifteen years or so, the crime fiction scene in Australia has exploded and now we're really spoilt for choice.
Jacqui: Yeah. It's a genre that just keeps growing. It used to be that romance was the biggest selling genre, but I'm not so sure we can say that anymore. I and I know from when you and I were were on the committee for the Australian Crime Writers Association that the number of crime books being published just kept increasing year by year. And it was the same with Sisters in Crime with their David Awards. And it's not just quantity, it's quality. And we see that reflected in the international sales of local writers such as Jane Harper and Candace Fox and Michael Robotham. And these are just a few of the increasing number of Australian crime writers who are being recognised in international crime awards.
Robert Goodman: So that's why we're here. Firstly, because we love talking about the genre, but also to help our listeners navigate the ever expanding Australian crime fiction scene. We'll talk about a couple of books in detail, have a look at any bookish and award news, and then give some extra recommendations, perhaps even non Australian ones of crime fiction that's caught our attention recently.
Jacqui: Yeah, and I know a lot of people out there are into true crime. I don't mind a true crime podcast, but I'm not a great reader of true crime and I know you're not either. So we might invite a few true crime aficionados to come and be guest reviewers down the track.
Robert Goodman: so Jackie,
Jacqui: a few, so
Robert Goodman: what books are we going to talk about today?
Jacqui: I was lucky enough to interview Mark Smith about his new book, Where Truth Ends, recently. So I'm going to talk about that book. It's about an environmental protest that goes wrong. And you're going to take us into the Victorian High Country to talk about Cold River, Margaret Hickey's sequel to her award-winning book, The Creeper. Okay, so Mark Smith, where the truth ends. So Mark is a Melbourne writer who first came to prominence with his critically acclaimed Winter trilogy, which are for young adult readers. The first book, The Road to Winter, came out in 2016 and was shortlisted for multiple awards. And I think I first read it because it must have been entered into the debut awards for the Ned Kellys. I think that's where I read it. And it's a great book. And this book is now taught in schools around Australia. The sequel, Wilder Country, went on to win the 2018 Australian Indie Book Award for Young Adults. He's now writing For adults. He was saying in his interview when he was writing for young people he was working in education. He no longer works in education, so he feels like he's not quite able to get the voice and the attitude of young people anymore. So he's now writing for adults. So his first adult book, Three Boys Gone, was published in 2025, and the second, Where the Truth Ends, was released this year in May. So the book is a thriller. The main character is Meg, who is in her mid-20s. She's educated, she's still studying, and she's working at the Australian Centre for the Moving Image, which we know as ACME, at Fed Square, Federation Square in Melbourne. Meg's life has gone a bit stale, her relationship is stalling, and she's looking for something interesting to do in her life. She joins an underground, a very secretive environmental activist group who are keen to do what the Extinction Rebellion does, but not get arrested and go to jail. So there's two timelines we follow.
Robert Goodman: Fair enough.
Jacqui: no, that's a good aim. Can't argue with that. so we follow two timelines. We are thrown into the present timeline straight away with Meg going to a protest with the underground group. The other alternating timeline is about three months prior, where she meets the group and goes to training weekend somewhere in the Otways. And it's all very secret squirrel. She takes the train down to Geelong, she's then blindfolded and taken into a car to the training camp. And during that weekend, all the people there adopt fake names. And they are asked not to discuss their outside lives. The plans for the protest are discussed and they train for it. So the protest takes place outside Federation Square. So at that big intersection there, Flinders and Swanson Strait. Meg is in a truck with a group of people who she may or may not have met on that weekend. They're all in disguise. They deliberately don't know who else is in that truck with them. So the truck stops at that big intersection. All the protesters get out, they unroll a poster, they yell, they lot of let off a lot of flares. They take off after the protest and go their separate ways. And as they take off, the unimaginable happens. The truck explodes. And all of a sudden, Meg isn't a protester. She's a terrorist, and she's being hunted. Yeah, so it's a you know, it's a really exciting, explosive start. It's it really reels you in right from the beginning.
Robert Goodman: is the reason why he goes into the past because someone in the camp is potentially responsible? Do we do we learn about the people in the camp? Yeah, okay.
Jacqui: Yes, yes. Yep, yeah, we do. And as with human nature, Meg may not be able to see the faces of the people in the truck, but she recognises their walk. She recognises their outline and she takes a a a few guesses at who she's in that truck with and she's able to connect with one of them down the track. if you read Mark's books, you know he's very much into environmental topics. So this one of the major themes here is about environmentalism and protesting. Meg's parents are environmentally conscious and they take Meg to protest from from a young age. Her dad is a river keeper on the Birong, the Arrow River, and that's an actual position. It's all very middle class and it's aimed at doing, you know, protests the right way. So Meg gets this, but she wants to do it take it further and do something memorables and to do something that means something to her. So this tension is there between her parents and herself and also there any within the environmental group about how you protest and how you make your mark. And it I guess it echoes in you know past topics with Gandhi and with the Black Panther movement about you know how you take your your issues to the world, how do you do it? Do you do it non violently? Do you do it violently? It's that never ending conversation about how you protest properly. Meg tells her parents what she's done and they're adamant that she should hand herself in. They have faith in the system. Her dad says, This is a middle of the road. Democracy, no one disappears, we still have the rule of law. But we see through the more media portrayals of the incident and the tough talk of the police and the politicians that it does take much for there not to be a rule of law. So I really I really enjoyed this book. It's thoughtful. Without jeopardizing the pacing and the tension. It's political, it reflects current tensions around progress and protest. Mark Smith is really getting great at getting inside Meg's head and showing her growing paranoia, whether she's in the house and imagining, you know, the police barging in at any point, or whether she's out and about and second guessing everyone's motives and imagining people are looking at her and all that sort of thing. You really get the feeling of being hunted. And I I like Rural of Noir as much as the next person, but it was so good to be back in Melbourne for this book. And it's been great
Robert Goodman: Yeah.
Jacqui: to read a few books recently, like Fiona Hardy and Cheryl Clark's book and Zane Lovett's latest book, all set around Melbourne. So it's nice to be back in Melbourne. There's some beautifully written scenes where Meg and her dad go by boat up the Erra, up Beerung. That's beautifully done. Her lunch, her her parents have lunch at Pellegrini's. And you know, that the action takes place at that big iconic Flinders. Swanson Street intersection. So it's really nice to be back in Melbourne. All in all, a really enjoyable read. So over to you, Robert.
Robert Goodman: No, it sounds great. I was just wondering, does Meg have to find out solve the crime herself? Does she have to find out who blew the truck up or is it just more of a thriller where she's
Jacqui: She yeah, she does.
Robert Goodman: on the run and trying to get away? Well sounds
Jacqui: Well, she's on the run, but also trying to find out who did it and why. Like who set like the office being set up, but who set them up and why did they set them up?
Robert Goodman: Yeah.
Jacqui: And so the finale ends back at the training camp, and uncovering the secrets and who who's behind
Robert Goodman: Okay. Yep.
Jacqui: this and the reason they've done this, which is I won't is a spoiler, so well I will not tell you. But it's isn't a very exciting end.
Robert Goodman: Yes, definitely with no spoilers on this show. No, I'm I'm looking forward to it. And I'm also I'm I'm very happy to see a lot more Australian crime coming back into the city. I am about to talk about a rural crime novel and there's still a good place for them and they're still great, but it's it's there's
Jacqui: Yeah, that's all right. yeah.
Robert Goodman: a there's a trend now for Australian crime to come back into the city, which is which is
Jacqui: Yeah, which is good.
Robert Goodman: kind of which is good. thanks, Jackie. so I am gonna talk about Cold River by Margaret Hickey. So Margaret Hickey is
Jacqui: Love Margaret Hickey
Robert Goodman: a Victorian. I think a lot of people love Margaret Hickey.
Jacqui: Mm.
Robert Goodman: She's a Victorian author who started a writing career with a book of short stories about rural Australia called Rural Dreams. But in 2022, she segued probably quite naturally into Australian rural crime fiction at a time when that subgenre was pretty hot. And like I have to say, it's still pretty hot. People still love Australian rural crime.
Jacqui: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Robert Goodman: but her first book, Cutter's End, was set in rural South Australia, which is also now Gary Disher Country.
Jacqui: Mm.
Robert Goodman: well since he moved away from the the peninsula in Victoria to his Hirschhausen series, set in rural South Australia. And she introduced police detective Mark Ariti in that book. Cutter's End was a great Australian crime fiction debut. It was shortlisted for the Ned Kelly Award for Best
Jacqui: Yeah.
Robert Goodman: Deboo. And it won the Bad Crime Festival Danger Prize. It exhibited Hickey's deep understanding of the really remote rural communities in which she was setting her action. Two more Aredi books followed: Stonetown and Broken Bay. Broken Bay I really liked because it was set in South Australia's limestone coast, where the there
Jacqui: Mm. Mm.
Robert Goodman: are underground caverns and people go cabin diving, and it was just a great setting for a crime novel. So
Jacqui: No, it certainly was.
Robert Goodman: it was, yeah. So, but Hickey. broke away from Marcariti and in 2024 she moved her action to a small town in the Victorian High Country in her book The Creeper. that book introduced a new protagonist, Constable Sally White, who has what I can only describe as a complex family tree, which I'll come to. the Creeper went on to win the Ned Kelly Award for Best Crime Fiction last year. Hickey followed the creeper up with it not not with a sequel, but with another standalone called An Ill Wind, which looked at the very fraught issue of wind farms in rural areas, also set in rural Victoria. And that one featured two new protagonists who I have a feeling will also anchor a series of their own. I I have this strange feeling that they're gonna be back.
Jacqui: Yeah, it's a great way to summarise obviously
Robert Goodman: so that brings us to her latest book, Cold River, which is a direct sequel to The Creeper. Hickey brings us back to the world of Sally White and all of her complications and explores a dark side of the history of the Victorian Alps. Cold River has, if you'll excuse the pun, a cold opening involving a hiker who seems to be stuck at the bottom of a cliff. I think he probably fell down it, his hands are injured, he's freezing, and there seems to be no way back up. So the opening finds him trying to decide whether it's worth the risk to throw himself into the raging torrent below. That was kind of that was kind of a very engaging opening.
Jacqui: Mm.
Robert Goodman: Not your usual, we found a murder kind of thing, So we then return to the world of Sally White, who's just come back from a South Pacific holiday with some friends. And being Sally, she's had a good time, but she feels guilty about not having been at work. In particular, she missed the start of the search for missing hiker Lewis Taylor, who we assume is the hiker we met in the open, and immediately throws herself into the case. When Lewis's backpack is found, Sally suspects that this is more than someone who's accidentally fallen off the track. Backpack is positioned in a way that makes her suspicious. And she digs into Lewis's movements before the hike. And that leads her to a former prisoner who, when she goes to visit him, she finds dead. and she also discovers a link to an earlier missing person's case. that there's something more to Lewis's disappearance than just a a missing hiker. and we kind of know this because at the same time, Hickey is following the tr travails of Lewis, who did end up jumping in the river. and survived. and suffice to say that he's not the crack journalist or hero that he thinks himself to be. when we find out his motives later on. But the the nice thing about Lewis is that makes him a really realistic character. He's just this ordinary guy who thinks he's onto something. He doesn't have the skills, he doesn't he doesn't really have the knowledge, and he really quickly realizes he's out of his depth, but he's also determined to survive whatever He finds wherever he finds himself. So he's a great character. And the action kind of oscillates between Sally and Lewis. the action of Cold River all revolves around something that is colloquially known as Chop Chop. And that's a term that I have to admit I didn't know about before reading Cold River. But Chop Chop is the name given to illegally grown tobacco. And apparently it used to be very big business in the Victorian High Country. And funded some very comfortable lifestyles. And but obviously with the illegal trade comes organized crime, corruption, and violence. So the interesting thing about Col River is Hickey bases her action on the very real fact that the illegal tobacco trade is picking up again in Victoria.
Jacqui: Mm.
Robert Goodman: And there are organized crime turf wars that come with that. And the fire and there is firebombing of tobacconists in Melbourne as a result. And there's a firebombing of a tobacconist in this book also. so the backstory of Cold River is very, very much rooted in current events and current concerns, let's talk a little bit about Sally White. She's a she's a great protagonist. she's got a very complicated family setup. Her biological father is a criminal who spent time in jail. but her mother remarried and Sally's stepfather Or actually, in this case, her ex-stepfather, because her mother has divorced for the second time, is the deputy commissioner of police. So she's got this kind of yin and yang thing happening where one one parent, her biological parent, is a criminal, and her very active stepfather is the deputy commissioner of police. And what that means from Sally is that she cops her from her colleagues at both ends because she's connected to a known criminal. But there's also this suggestion that she's had an easy ride due to the influence of her stepfather. which I
Jacqui: Mm.
Robert Goodman: have to say is something that even she wonders about, although she does call on him from time to time because he's a good connection to have. Sally lives in a small town in rural Victoria. So she also has to navigate the small town politics, not least of which is that her supervisor is a local and his wife belongs to one of the establishment families in town. And they may well be connected to the chop chop trade. So there's there's a whole lot of local connections that she has to navigate. in the Creeper, she found that a little easier because her boyfriend was a local. So because her boyfriend was a local, she was more accepted. But they've since broken up. He's gone off to Canada and she's kind of gone back to a little bit of outsider status. but Sally is a gung-ho investigator. She doesn't let a little thing like being suspended or suspected or unpopular stand in her way of getting to the truth. you know, even when she's suspended, she she keeps investigating as all good crime novel protagonists do. And the other thing is she's she's always willing to walk into danger to save others. she has the action chops as well when she needs it. so I really like Sally as a main character. She does like a drink, she likes a dance, and in both books, her propensity to go to the local pub and possibly have a little too much to drink has gotten her into trouble. but she also has loyal friends and is always trying to do the right thing. So the combination of you know real life crime that Hickey draws on the main character Sally, the setting that she she gets really well, and the atmosphere of the Victorian High Country all come together to make Cold River a really, really great
Jacqui: Mm.
Robert Goodman: read. And I really I really enjoyed this one as well. And I think it'll probably be potentially up in the in the in the award shortlists again when they come around next year. Have you read this one, Jackie?
Jacqui: No, I've read The Creeper though, and what I remember about that book is the way Hickey writes the landscape and that particular part of Victoria. And you do get that sense of being cold and being in the bush and all that sort of
Robert Goodman: Yeah.
Jacqui: that traditional, you know, Australian colonialist fear of being lost yeah, it's definitely part of that that writing. Is she the same with this one? Is she sort of maintained that beautiful Way she writes landscape.
Robert Goodman: Yeah, the creeper had lost bushwalkers. Sally does a lot of going out into the bush on her own. The second crime that she's investigating is a skier who's gone up to this remote part of the Victorian High Country. I th I have to remember the name. I think it's kind of something called Desolation Moor or somewhere. It's a real place. And she went missing
Jacqui: is it? wow.
Robert Goodman: up there. And it's it it's it's it's very cold and it's very snowy. But I think I think Hickey understands the landscape, but also the people in it and the communities and their dynamics. I mentioned Gary Disher before and he's another author
Jacqui: Mm.
Robert Goodman: who really brings those small communities to life. But both of those authors have a way of kind of taking those small communities but using their concerns to explore wider social issues. The
Jacqui: Yep, absolutely.
Robert Goodman: thing for the thing for Hickey of course is that Victoria is so small that she can set the action in the Victorian High Country, but Sally can pop up and down to Melbourne. when she needs to go to the big smoke.
Jacqui: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Robert Goodman: So she gets a bit of she gets a bit of city action as well. but you know the Victorian High Country is a is a bit of a crowded landscape at the moment, kind of literally. and Sally White reminds me a lot of the main character in Adrian Highland's recent series of books,
Jacqui: Yeah.
Robert Goodman: But I have to say, I like both of these authors and both
Jacqui: Yeah.
Robert Goodman: of the series. So, as I said, despite I'm in fact I'm really glad Australian crime is making its way back to the cities, these are both Australian rural crime authors that I would come back to. And I'd be very happy to see another Sally White adventure. Picky has definitely left. the door open for more Sally White. she did that at the end of the Creeper as well. You kind of Sally's
Jacqui: Mm.
Robert Goodman: life is so complicated that it kind of doesn't matter if she's solving a mystery or not. You just want to find out how she navigates her life. so
Jacqui: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I'd be disappointed about a boyfriend that they've broken up.
Robert Goodman: Yeah. Well they've broken up. And he's off to Canada. But he does make a cameo appearance in this one, so maybe he'll be back, who knows?
Jacqui: Yeah. I love Hickey's books. I I you know, whenever one comes out, I'm there for it. She writes really well and writes landscape really well.
Robert Goodman: Yeah. And some definitely deserved awards and shortlisting. So I think that's Cold River. I think if Sally White is back, we'll both be there for it. and and anything else that Margaret Hickey comes up with.
Jacqui: Great, we're getting some crime fiction news, the latest. So it's a few months ago now, but we should shout out Vicki Wakefield, who won an Edgar Allan Poe Award. So that they're the major American crime awards for the best paperback original for her novel, The Backwater, which Australian readers would know as To the River. And To the River also won the 2025 Sisters in Crime David Awards for the best adult crime novel. She's she's a fabulous writer, Vicki. So It's great to hear. And nominated alongside Vicky for that award was also Broke Road by Matthew Spencer. and B Broke Road was the follow-up to Spencer's first book, Black River, which was shortlisted for the Ned Kelly Awards and won the Danger Award for the best debut back in 2023. And Australians did pretty well overall in that, in those awards. Wild Dark Shore by Charlotte McConaughey was nominated for Best Novel. And Five Found Dead by Solari Gentil was nominated for the Simon and Schuster Mary Higgins Clark Award, so did pretty well. Now we're coming into the Australian and New Zealand Awards season. The Davits have now released their short list, and the six novels on the Sisters in Crime Adult Crime Fiction shortlist are at Cafe 64 by Shade and Barry, Learned Behaviors by Zainab Gameldian. Unbury the Dead by
Robert Goodman: Yeah.
Jacqui: Fiona Hardy, Mad Mabel by Sally Hepworth, The Bluff by Joanna Jenkins and Malaluca by Angie Fay Martin. Some really great diverse reads there, and I'm glad I am not judging and having to pick a winner.
Robert Goodman: Absolutely, that's a great list. And I think I might just be talking about Bad Neighbours, which is Joanna Jenkins' follow-up to the bluff on our next episode. interesting again, the bluff was a kind of rural crime. Bad neighbours is very,
Jacqui: Mm.
Robert Goodman: very Sydney. and I'm looking forward to talking about that set in the cross.
Jacqui: Fantastic.
Robert Goodman: yeah, so that one's that one's on our next episode. So but back overseas, Melbourne based author Laura McCluskey won a British Crime Writers Association Dagger Award. that's the ILP John Creasy first novel dagger for her book, The Wolf Tree. I have to admit I haven't read this one, but the judges described it as a tense atmospheric thriller, perfectly interweaving suspense and folk horror. so that sounds like a pretty unique voice in crime fiction and probably one worth putting on the TBR pile.
Jacqui: I'm about to pick that one up from the library after we finish this podcast. So I might be able to just discuss it at the next podcast episode.
Robert Goodman: you can you can tell us all about it. Excellent. so for that award, Laura was up against another Australian, Sam Guthrie, whose debut The Peak was also shortlisted. now I have read that one and I really enjoyed
Jacqui: Mm.
Robert Goodman: it. The Peak was one of my top books of last year. It was fast paced. It was a twisty Australian political thriller. And, you know, we do a lot of crime, but Australians we don't tend to do a lot of political thrillers. They're kind of more on an American thing. you know, set in the halls of parliament with, you know, ministerial advisers and foreign affairs and whatever. The peak was a fantastic taboo. I mean it drew a lot on Guthrie's experience clearly. really worth your time.
Jacqui: Yeah, yeah, I've read that one too and I r I really liked it. It was so good to read something that a bit different. And I agree with you, Australian writers needed to get into espionage and political thrillers. We need a bit more of that. Because the peak was fantastic. It was so different.
Robert Goodman: So just because we're talking about the daggers, the gold dagger this year was won by Abigail Dean for her book, The Death of Us, and one of my favorites, and I know a lot of people's favorites, and he came up a lot in the recent New York Times best thrillers of the twenty first century list was S.A. Cosby, who won the in Fleming Steel Dagger for his latest book, King of Ashes.
Jacqui: Yeah. Someone sent me that list, Robert, and I have opinions about the number one book. I can't take that list seriously
Robert Goodman: Is that
Jacqui: if that book is number one.
Robert Goodman: So just for listeners, number one book of the best thriller of the twenty-first century was Gone Girl by Gillian Flynn. second was Mystic River by Dennis Lahane.
Jacqui: Great book.
Robert Goodman: I get the feeling that the list was voted for by crime writers in America. there are only a couple of Australian books on the list from memory. One of them was The Dry, Jane Harper. and the other one was
Jacqui: The drive was on it, for sure. Yeah.
Robert Goodman: and Big Little Eyes was on it as well.
Jacqui: yes, of course, yeah.
Robert Goodman: Leanne Moriarty's book, which a lot of people know from the T V series that they made from it as well.
Jacqui: Mm.
Robert Goodman: but I have a feeling if they polled Australian crime writers for that, we'd end up with a very, very different list.
Jacqui: absolutely. Actually, I was just thinking for those of you who like a good list, Radio National are about to open their their survey for the the top one hundred Australian books of all time. So we can vote. It it'll be open for all of September. So I think we need to get in and and nominate as many crime books as possible. In on that list. Absolutely.
Robert Goodman: Absolutely. Let's get crime books on the list.
Jacqui: And look, just a little plug for myself before we go. I'm interviewing Chris Hammer in November as part of the current Clunes Book Town on Sunday program. So if you're in Victoria, you're out rural and regional, check out the Creative Clunes website for info. So I'm looking forward to that.
Robert Goodman: Excellent. Chris Hammer has a new book coming out in a couple of months called Full Circle, which I've just
Jacqui: Yes he does. Hmm.
Robert Goodman: secured a copy of, so I'm looking forward to that one.
Jacqui: Have you got any crime reads recently that may not be Australian that you want to recommend?
Robert Goodman: I actually have a few, but I'll just I'll stick with one for now. and I want to stay in the Southern Hemisphere because you know we're down under. and staying in the Southern Hemisphere, I don't think I can go past D V Bishop's Shadow of Madness. So D. V. Bishop is a New Zealand author, and Shadow of Madness is actually the sixth book in his historical crime series set in Renaissance Florence. the series started with City of Vengeance back in 2021, which itself won a pitch competition at Bloody Scotland. Bishop became the first New Zealander then to win a dagger for the second book in the series, which was called The Darkest Sin. And the third book in the series, Ritual of Fire, won the Nio Marsh Award, which is the New Zealand
Jacqui: Mm.
Robert Goodman: Crime Fiction Awards. Look, the great thing about these books, besides the way that Bishop brings that time and place so vividly to life, is the way that Bishop has been playing with crime subgenres as the series has progressed. So the first few books were essentially procedurals. His main character was a member of the kind of the Florence police. and he had an offsider and they solved crime. but the last couple have gone in different directions. So they're all anchored by his fabulous and complex main character, Cesare Aldo, and a colorful collection of side characters. And one of those side characters is actually featuring in his next book, which is a kind of Aldo adjacent book where but where she is going to be the protagonist. And I think that's coming out next year. So, in terms of crime genres, Shadow of Madness is more of a thriller style. It's set in a remote asylum that's been cut off by a snowstorm. is good if not better than some of the other books in the series. So if you're already a fan of the series, you won't be disappointed. because Bishop also manages to resolve some long-running mysteries from the series. so given this is the sixth book in the series, it's probably not the best place to start. so I'm really recommending it as a way of saying start at the beginning, read City of Vengeance, run through the series. it's a great series and every entry is is a winner. So that's shadow of madness. how about you, Jackie?
Jacqui: Well, I haven't read DB Bishop, but I'm now interested, so I will take your recommendation
Robert Goodman: Yeah.
Jacqui: and start with book one. I've just finished A Bad Bad Place, which is the debut book by Scottish writer Frances Crawford, and it's her debut at the age of 60, which gives us all hope, Robert.
Robert Goodman: Wow.
Jacqui: Sensational. I love it. It's set in Glasgow in 1979, and it's a story told in alternating chapters by Janie and her grandmother Maggie, who is Janie's guardian. So Janie's 12, and one day she's out walking her dog, the beautifully named Sid Vicious. And like the start of many Law and Order episodes, Sid goes off running down an old tunnel and finds the brutalised body of a young local woman, Samantha. In essence, the book is about Janie's search for who killed Samantha, but it covers so many, many, many more topics. It's about the impact this experience has on Janie, who's 12. She's only 12, she's young. And she knows something bad happened to her in that tunnel where she found the body of Samantha, but she can't quite remember that trauma, the trauma has sort of blocked it out for her. it's about the way the adults in her life, including the police, fail her and take advantage of her youth. it's about grief, trauma, secrets, it's about poverty and survival, it's about domestic violence. Samantha's dad is a local gangster, and Janie and her grandmother find themselves pulled into that universe. So we see many sides of Glasgow during that period. it sounds grim, but it's not. There's a lightness of touch, there's humour. Janie's voice is beautiful, and as well as her grandmother, Maggie, who's trying her best to keep Janie safe and doesn't quite know what's going on in Janie's head. And that's all using Glaswegian brogue and slang. And like it's not impenetrable, like train spotting, but it it gives you that beautiful the sound of their accent in your ear when you're reading. Yeah. I really enjoyed it. It was a lot of fun.
Robert Goodman: I don't know what it is about Glasgow. I assume it's it's slightly violent history, but there is a lot of really good crime fiction that's set in Glasgow. It's obviously
Jacqui: yeah.
Robert Goodman: a good place to do crime fiction, so
Jacqui: Yeah. Yeah.
Robert Goodman: so thanks thanks, Jackie. that was fun.
Jacqui: It was. And thanks for listening to our slightly awkward awkward first episode. We will get better. We'll be back in two weeks. We aim to do this fortnightly. and luckily there's lots and lots of books to talk about. And if you enjoyed our podcast, tell your friends and get them on board.
Robert Goodman: But assure them we will get better. Crime Fiction Down Under was recorded on the lands of the Gadigal people in Sydney and the Wadwarung people in Ballarat. while we do receive copies of books reviewed, neither Jackie nor I have any financial relationship with publishers and the opinions expressed in this podcast are purely our own. thank you, Jackie. I'll see you in a couple of weeks.
Jacqui: Yes, they are. Thank you, Robert. absolutely.
Jacqui: Hi Robert. I am very excited to be starting this podcast with you.
Robert Goodman: It is really exciting. People often look down on books that sit in a particular genre, be it romance or science fiction or crime, but the crime genre in particular has always been a great lens for exploring particular societies, places, and people. Australian crime authors are particularly good at this and have been at it for a long time. I'm thinking of authors like Peter Corras, Peter Temple, and Kerry Greenwood. And I'm hoping we'll get a chance in future to talk about some of our favorites from the past. But in the last fifteen years or so, the crime fiction scene in Australia has exploded and now we're really spoilt for choice.
Jacqui: Yeah. It's a genre that just keeps growing. It used to be that romance was the biggest selling genre, but I'm not so sure we can say that anymore. I and I know from when you and I were were on the committee for the Australian Crime Writers Association that the number of crime books being published just kept increasing year by year. And it was the same with Sisters in Crime with their David Awards. And it's not just quantity, it's quality. And we see that reflected in the international sales of local writers such as Jane Harper and Candace Fox and Michael Robotham. And these are just a few of the increasing number of Australian crime writers who are being recognised in international crime awards.
Robert Goodman: So that's why we're here. Firstly, because we love talking about the genre, but also to help our listeners navigate the ever expanding Australian crime fiction scene. We'll talk about a couple of books in detail, have a look at any bookish and award news, and then give some extra recommendations, perhaps even non Australian ones of crime fiction that's caught our attention recently.
Jacqui: Yeah, and I know a lot of people out there are into true crime. I don't mind a true crime podcast, but I'm not a great reader of true crime and I know you're not either. So we might invite a few true crime aficionados to come and be guest reviewers down the track.
Robert Goodman: so Jackie,
Jacqui: a few, so
Robert Goodman: what books are we going to talk about today?
Jacqui: I was lucky enough to interview Mark Smith about his new book, Where Truth Ends, recently. So I'm going to talk about that book. It's about an environmental protest that goes wrong. And you're going to take us into the Victorian High Country to talk about Cold River, Margaret Hickey's sequel to her award-winning book, The Creeper. Okay, so Mark Smith, where the truth ends. So Mark is a Melbourne writer who first came to prominence with his critically acclaimed Winter trilogy, which are for young adult readers. The first book, The Road to Winter, came out in 2016 and was shortlisted for multiple awards. And I think I first read it because it must have been entered into the debut awards for the Ned Kellys. I think that's where I read it. And it's a great book. And this book is now taught in schools around Australia. The sequel, Wilder Country, went on to win the 2018 Australian Indie Book Award for Young Adults. He's now writing For adults. He was saying in his interview when he was writing for young people he was working in education. He no longer works in education, so he feels like he's not quite able to get the voice and the attitude of young people anymore. So he's now writing for adults. So his first adult book, Three Boys Gone, was published in 2025, and the second, Where the Truth Ends, was released this year in May. So the book is a thriller. The main character is Meg, who is in her mid-20s. She's educated, she's still studying, and she's working at the Australian Centre for the Moving Image, which we know as ACME, at Fed Square, Federation Square in Melbourne. Meg's life has gone a bit stale, her relationship is stalling, and she's looking for something interesting to do in her life. She joins an underground, a very secretive environmental activist group who are keen to do what the Extinction Rebellion does, but not get arrested and go to jail. So there's two timelines we follow.
Robert Goodman: Fair enough.
Jacqui: no, that's a good aim. Can't argue with that. so we follow two timelines. We are thrown into the present timeline straight away with Meg going to a protest with the underground group. The other alternating timeline is about three months prior, where she meets the group and goes to training weekend somewhere in the Otways. And it's all very secret squirrel. She takes the train down to Geelong, she's then blindfolded and taken into a car to the training camp. And during that weekend, all the people there adopt fake names. And they are asked not to discuss their outside lives. The plans for the protest are discussed and they train for it. So the protest takes place outside Federation Square. So at that big intersection there, Flinders and Swanson Strait. Meg is in a truck with a group of people who she may or may not have met on that weekend. They're all in disguise. They deliberately don't know who else is in that truck with them. So the truck stops at that big intersection. All the protesters get out, they unroll a poster, they yell, they lot of let off a lot of flares. They take off after the protest and go their separate ways. And as they take off, the unimaginable happens. The truck explodes. And all of a sudden, Meg isn't a protester. She's a terrorist, and she's being hunted. Yeah, so it's a you know, it's a really exciting, explosive start. It's it really reels you in right from the beginning.
Robert Goodman: is the reason why he goes into the past because someone in the camp is potentially responsible? Do we do we learn about the people in the camp? Yeah, okay.
Jacqui: Yes, yes. Yep, yeah, we do. And as with human nature, Meg may not be able to see the faces of the people in the truck, but she recognises their walk. She recognises their outline and she takes a a a few guesses at who she's in that truck with and she's able to connect with one of them down the track. if you read Mark's books, you know he's very much into environmental topics. So this one of the major themes here is about environmentalism and protesting. Meg's parents are environmentally conscious and they take Meg to protest from from a young age. Her dad is a river keeper on the Birong, the Arrow River, and that's an actual position. It's all very middle class and it's aimed at doing, you know, protests the right way. So Meg gets this, but she wants to do it take it further and do something memorables and to do something that means something to her. So this tension is there between her parents and herself and also there any within the environmental group about how you protest and how you make your mark. And it I guess it echoes in you know past topics with Gandhi and with the Black Panther movement about you know how you take your your issues to the world, how do you do it? Do you do it non violently? Do you do it violently? It's that never ending conversation about how you protest properly. Meg tells her parents what she's done and they're adamant that she should hand herself in. They have faith in the system. Her dad says, This is a middle of the road. Democracy, no one disappears, we still have the rule of law. But we see through the more media portrayals of the incident and the tough talk of the police and the politicians that it does take much for there not to be a rule of law. So I really I really enjoyed this book. It's thoughtful. Without jeopardizing the pacing and the tension. It's political, it reflects current tensions around progress and protest. Mark Smith is really getting great at getting inside Meg's head and showing her growing paranoia, whether she's in the house and imagining, you know, the police barging in at any point, or whether she's out and about and second guessing everyone's motives and imagining people are looking at her and all that sort of thing. You really get the feeling of being hunted. And I I like Rural of Noir as much as the next person, but it was so good to be back in Melbourne for this book. And it's been great
Robert Goodman: Yeah.
Jacqui: to read a few books recently, like Fiona Hardy and Cheryl Clark's book and Zane Lovett's latest book, all set around Melbourne. So it's nice to be back in Melbourne. There's some beautifully written scenes where Meg and her dad go by boat up the Erra, up Beerung. That's beautifully done. Her lunch, her her parents have lunch at Pellegrini's. And you know, that the action takes place at that big iconic Flinders. Swanson Street intersection. So it's really nice to be back in Melbourne. All in all, a really enjoyable read. So over to you, Robert.
Robert Goodman: No, it sounds great. I was just wondering, does Meg have to find out solve the crime herself? Does she have to find out who blew the truck up or is it just more of a thriller where she's
Jacqui: She yeah, she does.
Robert Goodman: on the run and trying to get away? Well sounds
Jacqui: Well, she's on the run, but also trying to find out who did it and why. Like who set like the office being set up, but who set them up and why did they set them up?
Robert Goodman: Yeah.
Jacqui: And so the finale ends back at the training camp, and uncovering the secrets and who who's behind
Robert Goodman: Okay. Yep.
Jacqui: this and the reason they've done this, which is I won't is a spoiler, so well I will not tell you. But it's isn't a very exciting end.
Robert Goodman: Yes, definitely with no spoilers on this show. No, I'm I'm looking forward to it. And I'm also I'm I'm very happy to see a lot more Australian crime coming back into the city. I am about to talk about a rural crime novel and there's still a good place for them and they're still great, but it's it's there's
Jacqui: Yeah, that's all right. yeah.
Robert Goodman: a there's a trend now for Australian crime to come back into the city, which is which is
Jacqui: Yeah, which is good.
Robert Goodman: kind of which is good. thanks, Jackie. so I am gonna talk about Cold River by Margaret Hickey. So Margaret Hickey is
Jacqui: Love Margaret Hickey
Robert Goodman: a Victorian. I think a lot of people love Margaret Hickey.
Jacqui: Mm.
Robert Goodman: She's a Victorian author who started a writing career with a book of short stories about rural Australia called Rural Dreams. But in 2022, she segued probably quite naturally into Australian rural crime fiction at a time when that subgenre was pretty hot. And like I have to say, it's still pretty hot. People still love Australian rural crime.
Jacqui: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Robert Goodman: but her first book, Cutter's End, was set in rural South Australia, which is also now Gary Disher Country.
Jacqui: Mm.
Robert Goodman: well since he moved away from the the peninsula in Victoria to his Hirschhausen series, set in rural South Australia. And she introduced police detective Mark Ariti in that book. Cutter's End was a great Australian crime fiction debut. It was shortlisted for the Ned Kelly Award for Best
Jacqui: Yeah.
Robert Goodman: Deboo. And it won the Bad Crime Festival Danger Prize. It exhibited Hickey's deep understanding of the really remote rural communities in which she was setting her action. Two more Aredi books followed: Stonetown and Broken Bay. Broken Bay I really liked because it was set in South Australia's limestone coast, where the there
Jacqui: Mm. Mm.
Robert Goodman: are underground caverns and people go cabin diving, and it was just a great setting for a crime novel. So
Jacqui: No, it certainly was.
Robert Goodman: it was, yeah. So, but Hickey. broke away from Marcariti and in 2024 she moved her action to a small town in the Victorian High Country in her book The Creeper. that book introduced a new protagonist, Constable Sally White, who has what I can only describe as a complex family tree, which I'll come to. the Creeper went on to win the Ned Kelly Award for Best Crime Fiction last year. Hickey followed the creeper up with it not not with a sequel, but with another standalone called An Ill Wind, which looked at the very fraught issue of wind farms in rural areas, also set in rural Victoria. And that one featured two new protagonists who I have a feeling will also anchor a series of their own. I I have this strange feeling that they're gonna be back.
Jacqui: Yeah, it's a great way to summarise obviously
Robert Goodman: so that brings us to her latest book, Cold River, which is a direct sequel to The Creeper. Hickey brings us back to the world of Sally White and all of her complications and explores a dark side of the history of the Victorian Alps. Cold River has, if you'll excuse the pun, a cold opening involving a hiker who seems to be stuck at the bottom of a cliff. I think he probably fell down it, his hands are injured, he's freezing, and there seems to be no way back up. So the opening finds him trying to decide whether it's worth the risk to throw himself into the raging torrent below. That was kind of that was kind of a very engaging opening.
Jacqui: Mm.
Robert Goodman: Not your usual, we found a murder kind of thing, So we then return to the world of Sally White, who's just come back from a South Pacific holiday with some friends. And being Sally, she's had a good time, but she feels guilty about not having been at work. In particular, she missed the start of the search for missing hiker Lewis Taylor, who we assume is the hiker we met in the open, and immediately throws herself into the case. When Lewis's backpack is found, Sally suspects that this is more than someone who's accidentally fallen off the track. Backpack is positioned in a way that makes her suspicious. And she digs into Lewis's movements before the hike. And that leads her to a former prisoner who, when she goes to visit him, she finds dead. and she also discovers a link to an earlier missing person's case. that there's something more to Lewis's disappearance than just a a missing hiker. and we kind of know this because at the same time, Hickey is following the tr travails of Lewis, who did end up jumping in the river. and survived. and suffice to say that he's not the crack journalist or hero that he thinks himself to be. when we find out his motives later on. But the the nice thing about Lewis is that makes him a really realistic character. He's just this ordinary guy who thinks he's onto something. He doesn't have the skills, he doesn't he doesn't really have the knowledge, and he really quickly realizes he's out of his depth, but he's also determined to survive whatever He finds wherever he finds himself. So he's a great character. And the action kind of oscillates between Sally and Lewis. the action of Cold River all revolves around something that is colloquially known as Chop Chop. And that's a term that I have to admit I didn't know about before reading Cold River. But Chop Chop is the name given to illegally grown tobacco. And apparently it used to be very big business in the Victorian High Country. And funded some very comfortable lifestyles. And but obviously with the illegal trade comes organized crime, corruption, and violence. So the interesting thing about Col River is Hickey bases her action on the very real fact that the illegal tobacco trade is picking up again in Victoria.
Jacqui: Mm.
Robert Goodman: And there are organized crime turf wars that come with that. And the fire and there is firebombing of tobacconists in Melbourne as a result. And there's a firebombing of a tobacconist in this book also. so the backstory of Cold River is very, very much rooted in current events and current concerns, let's talk a little bit about Sally White. She's a she's a great protagonist. she's got a very complicated family setup. Her biological father is a criminal who spent time in jail. but her mother remarried and Sally's stepfather Or actually, in this case, her ex-stepfather, because her mother has divorced for the second time, is the deputy commissioner of police. So she's got this kind of yin and yang thing happening where one one parent, her biological parent, is a criminal, and her very active stepfather is the deputy commissioner of police. And what that means from Sally is that she cops her from her colleagues at both ends because she's connected to a known criminal. But there's also this suggestion that she's had an easy ride due to the influence of her stepfather. which I
Jacqui: Mm.
Robert Goodman: have to say is something that even she wonders about, although she does call on him from time to time because he's a good connection to have. Sally lives in a small town in rural Victoria. So she also has to navigate the small town politics, not least of which is that her supervisor is a local and his wife belongs to one of the establishment families in town. And they may well be connected to the chop chop trade. So there's there's a whole lot of local connections that she has to navigate. in the Creeper, she found that a little easier because her boyfriend was a local. So because her boyfriend was a local, she was more accepted. But they've since broken up. He's gone off to Canada and she's kind of gone back to a little bit of outsider status. but Sally is a gung-ho investigator. She doesn't let a little thing like being suspended or suspected or unpopular stand in her way of getting to the truth. you know, even when she's suspended, she she keeps investigating as all good crime novel protagonists do. And the other thing is she's she's always willing to walk into danger to save others. she has the action chops as well when she needs it. so I really like Sally as a main character. She does like a drink, she likes a dance, and in both books, her propensity to go to the local pub and possibly have a little too much to drink has gotten her into trouble. but she also has loyal friends and is always trying to do the right thing. So the combination of you know real life crime that Hickey draws on the main character Sally, the setting that she she gets really well, and the atmosphere of the Victorian High Country all come together to make Cold River a really, really great
Jacqui: Mm.
Robert Goodman: read. And I really I really enjoyed this one as well. And I think it'll probably be potentially up in the in the in the award shortlists again when they come around next year. Have you read this one, Jackie?
Jacqui: No, I've read The Creeper though, and what I remember about that book is the way Hickey writes the landscape and that particular part of Victoria. And you do get that sense of being cold and being in the bush and all that sort of
Robert Goodman: Yeah.
Jacqui: that traditional, you know, Australian colonialist fear of being lost yeah, it's definitely part of that that writing. Is she the same with this one? Is she sort of maintained that beautiful Way she writes landscape.
Robert Goodman: Yeah, the creeper had lost bushwalkers. Sally does a lot of going out into the bush on her own. The second crime that she's investigating is a skier who's gone up to this remote part of the Victorian High Country. I th I have to remember the name. I think it's kind of something called Desolation Moor or somewhere. It's a real place. And she went missing
Jacqui: is it? wow.
Robert Goodman: up there. And it's it it's it's it's very cold and it's very snowy. But I think I think Hickey understands the landscape, but also the people in it and the communities and their dynamics. I mentioned Gary Disher before and he's another author
Jacqui: Mm.
Robert Goodman: who really brings those small communities to life. But both of those authors have a way of kind of taking those small communities but using their concerns to explore wider social issues. The
Jacqui: Yep, absolutely.
Robert Goodman: thing for the thing for Hickey of course is that Victoria is so small that she can set the action in the Victorian High Country, but Sally can pop up and down to Melbourne. when she needs to go to the big smoke.
Jacqui: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Robert Goodman: So she gets a bit of she gets a bit of city action as well. but you know the Victorian High Country is a is a bit of a crowded landscape at the moment, kind of literally. and Sally White reminds me a lot of the main character in Adrian Highland's recent series of books,
Jacqui: Yeah.
Robert Goodman: But I have to say, I like both of these authors and both
Jacqui: Yeah.
Robert Goodman: of the series. So, as I said, despite I'm in fact I'm really glad Australian crime is making its way back to the cities, these are both Australian rural crime authors that I would come back to. And I'd be very happy to see another Sally White adventure. Picky has definitely left. the door open for more Sally White. she did that at the end of the Creeper as well. You kind of Sally's
Jacqui: Mm.
Robert Goodman: life is so complicated that it kind of doesn't matter if she's solving a mystery or not. You just want to find out how she navigates her life. so
Jacqui: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I'd be disappointed about a boyfriend that they've broken up.
Robert Goodman: Yeah. Well they've broken up. And he's off to Canada. But he does make a cameo appearance in this one, so maybe he'll be back, who knows?
Jacqui: Yeah. I love Hickey's books. I I you know, whenever one comes out, I'm there for it. She writes really well and writes landscape really well.
Robert Goodman: Yeah. And some definitely deserved awards and shortlisting. So I think that's Cold River. I think if Sally White is back, we'll both be there for it. and and anything else that Margaret Hickey comes up with.
Jacqui: Great, we're getting some crime fiction news, the latest. So it's a few months ago now, but we should shout out Vicki Wakefield, who won an Edgar Allan Poe Award. So that they're the major American crime awards for the best paperback original for her novel, The Backwater, which Australian readers would know as To the River. And To the River also won the 2025 Sisters in Crime David Awards for the best adult crime novel. She's she's a fabulous writer, Vicki. So It's great to hear. And nominated alongside Vicky for that award was also Broke Road by Matthew Spencer. and B Broke Road was the follow-up to Spencer's first book, Black River, which was shortlisted for the Ned Kelly Awards and won the Danger Award for the best debut back in 2023. And Australians did pretty well overall in that, in those awards. Wild Dark Shore by Charlotte McConaughey was nominated for Best Novel. And Five Found Dead by Solari Gentil was nominated for the Simon and Schuster Mary Higgins Clark Award, so did pretty well. Now we're coming into the Australian and New Zealand Awards season. The Davits have now released their short list, and the six novels on the Sisters in Crime Adult Crime Fiction shortlist are at Cafe 64 by Shade and Barry, Learned Behaviors by Zainab Gameldian. Unbury the Dead by
Robert Goodman: Yeah.
Jacqui: Fiona Hardy, Mad Mabel by Sally Hepworth, The Bluff by Joanna Jenkins and Malaluca by Angie Fay Martin. Some really great diverse reads there, and I'm glad I am not judging and having to pick a winner.
Robert Goodman: Absolutely, that's a great list. And I think I might just be talking about Bad Neighbours, which is Joanna Jenkins' follow-up to the bluff on our next episode. interesting again, the bluff was a kind of rural crime. Bad neighbours is very,
Jacqui: Mm.
Robert Goodman: very Sydney. and I'm looking forward to talking about that set in the cross.
Jacqui: Fantastic.
Robert Goodman: yeah, so that one's that one's on our next episode. So but back overseas, Melbourne based author Laura McCluskey won a British Crime Writers Association Dagger Award. that's the ILP John Creasy first novel dagger for her book, The Wolf Tree. I have to admit I haven't read this one, but the judges described it as a tense atmospheric thriller, perfectly interweaving suspense and folk horror. so that sounds like a pretty unique voice in crime fiction and probably one worth putting on the TBR pile.
Jacqui: I'm about to pick that one up from the library after we finish this podcast. So I might be able to just discuss it at the next podcast episode.
Robert Goodman: you can you can tell us all about it. Excellent. so for that award, Laura was up against another Australian, Sam Guthrie, whose debut The Peak was also shortlisted. now I have read that one and I really enjoyed
Jacqui: Mm.
Robert Goodman: it. The Peak was one of my top books of last year. It was fast paced. It was a twisty Australian political thriller. And, you know, we do a lot of crime, but Australians we don't tend to do a lot of political thrillers. They're kind of more on an American thing. you know, set in the halls of parliament with, you know, ministerial advisers and foreign affairs and whatever. The peak was a fantastic taboo. I mean it drew a lot on Guthrie's experience clearly. really worth your time.
Jacqui: Yeah, yeah, I've read that one too and I r I really liked it. It was so good to read something that a bit different. And I agree with you, Australian writers needed to get into espionage and political thrillers. We need a bit more of that. Because the peak was fantastic. It was so different.
Robert Goodman: So just because we're talking about the daggers, the gold dagger this year was won by Abigail Dean for her book, The Death of Us, and one of my favorites, and I know a lot of people's favorites, and he came up a lot in the recent New York Times best thrillers of the twenty first century list was S.A. Cosby, who won the in Fleming Steel Dagger for his latest book, King of Ashes.
Jacqui: Yeah. Someone sent me that list, Robert, and I have opinions about the number one book. I can't take that list seriously
Robert Goodman: Is that
Jacqui: if that book is number one.
Robert Goodman: So just for listeners, number one book of the best thriller of the twenty-first century was Gone Girl by Gillian Flynn. second was Mystic River by Dennis Lahane.
Jacqui: Great book.
Robert Goodman: I get the feeling that the list was voted for by crime writers in America. there are only a couple of Australian books on the list from memory. One of them was The Dry, Jane Harper. and the other one was
Jacqui: The drive was on it, for sure. Yeah.
Robert Goodman: and Big Little Eyes was on it as well.
Jacqui: yes, of course, yeah.
Robert Goodman: Leanne Moriarty's book, which a lot of people know from the T V series that they made from it as well.
Jacqui: Mm.
Robert Goodman: but I have a feeling if they polled Australian crime writers for that, we'd end up with a very, very different list.
Jacqui: absolutely. Actually, I was just thinking for those of you who like a good list, Radio National are about to open their their survey for the the top one hundred Australian books of all time. So we can vote. It it'll be open for all of September. So I think we need to get in and and nominate as many crime books as possible. In on that list. Absolutely.
Robert Goodman: Absolutely. Let's get crime books on the list.
Jacqui: And look, just a little plug for myself before we go. I'm interviewing Chris Hammer in November as part of the current Clunes Book Town on Sunday program. So if you're in Victoria, you're out rural and regional, check out the Creative Clunes website for info. So I'm looking forward to that.
Robert Goodman: Excellent. Chris Hammer has a new book coming out in a couple of months called Full Circle, which I've just
Jacqui: Yes he does. Hmm.
Robert Goodman: secured a copy of, so I'm looking forward to that one.
Jacqui: Have you got any crime reads recently that may not be Australian that you want to recommend?
Robert Goodman: I actually have a few, but I'll just I'll stick with one for now. and I want to stay in the Southern Hemisphere because you know we're down under. and staying in the Southern Hemisphere, I don't think I can go past D V Bishop's Shadow of Madness. So D. V. Bishop is a New Zealand author, and Shadow of Madness is actually the sixth book in his historical crime series set in Renaissance Florence. the series started with City of Vengeance back in 2021, which itself won a pitch competition at Bloody Scotland. Bishop became the first New Zealander then to win a dagger for the second book in the series, which was called The Darkest Sin. And the third book in the series, Ritual of Fire, won the Nio Marsh Award, which is the New Zealand
Jacqui: Mm.
Robert Goodman: Crime Fiction Awards. Look, the great thing about these books, besides the way that Bishop brings that time and place so vividly to life, is the way that Bishop has been playing with crime subgenres as the series has progressed. So the first few books were essentially procedurals. His main character was a member of the kind of the Florence police. and he had an offsider and they solved crime. but the last couple have gone in different directions. So they're all anchored by his fabulous and complex main character, Cesare Aldo, and a colorful collection of side characters. And one of those side characters is actually featuring in his next book, which is a kind of Aldo adjacent book where but where she is going to be the protagonist. And I think that's coming out next year. So, in terms of crime genres, Shadow of Madness is more of a thriller style. It's set in a remote asylum that's been cut off by a snowstorm. is good if not better than some of the other books in the series. So if you're already a fan of the series, you won't be disappointed. because Bishop also manages to resolve some long-running mysteries from the series. so given this is the sixth book in the series, it's probably not the best place to start. so I'm really recommending it as a way of saying start at the beginning, read City of Vengeance, run through the series. it's a great series and every entry is is a winner. So that's shadow of madness. how about you, Jackie?
Jacqui: Well, I haven't read DB Bishop, but I'm now interested, so I will take your recommendation
Robert Goodman: Yeah.
Jacqui: and start with book one. I've just finished A Bad Bad Place, which is the debut book by Scottish writer Frances Crawford, and it's her debut at the age of 60, which gives us all hope, Robert.
Robert Goodman: Wow.
Jacqui: Sensational. I love it. It's set in Glasgow in 1979, and it's a story told in alternating chapters by Janie and her grandmother Maggie, who is Janie's guardian. So Janie's 12, and one day she's out walking her dog, the beautifully named Sid Vicious. And like the start of many Law and Order episodes, Sid goes off running down an old tunnel and finds the brutalised body of a young local woman, Samantha. In essence, the book is about Janie's search for who killed Samantha, but it covers so many, many, many more topics. It's about the impact this experience has on Janie, who's 12. She's only 12, she's young. And she knows something bad happened to her in that tunnel where she found the body of Samantha, but she can't quite remember that trauma, the trauma has sort of blocked it out for her. it's about the way the adults in her life, including the police, fail her and take advantage of her youth. it's about grief, trauma, secrets, it's about poverty and survival, it's about domestic violence. Samantha's dad is a local gangster, and Janie and her grandmother find themselves pulled into that universe. So we see many sides of Glasgow during that period. it sounds grim, but it's not. There's a lightness of touch, there's humour. Janie's voice is beautiful, and as well as her grandmother, Maggie, who's trying her best to keep Janie safe and doesn't quite know what's going on in Janie's head. And that's all using Glaswegian brogue and slang. And like it's not impenetrable, like train spotting, but it it gives you that beautiful the sound of their accent in your ear when you're reading. Yeah. I really enjoyed it. It was a lot of fun.
Robert Goodman: I don't know what it is about Glasgow. I assume it's it's slightly violent history, but there is a lot of really good crime fiction that's set in Glasgow. It's obviously
Jacqui: yeah.
Robert Goodman: a good place to do crime fiction, so
Jacqui: Yeah. Yeah.
Robert Goodman: so thanks thanks, Jackie. that was fun.
Jacqui: It was. And thanks for listening to our slightly awkward awkward first episode. We will get better. We'll be back in two weeks. We aim to do this fortnightly. and luckily there's lots and lots of books to talk about. And if you enjoyed our podcast, tell your friends and get them on board.
Robert Goodman: But assure them we will get better. Crime Fiction Down Under was recorded on the lands of the Gadigal people in Sydney and the Wadwarung people in Ballarat. while we do receive copies of books reviewed, neither Jackie nor I have any financial relationship with publishers and the opinions expressed in this podcast are purely our own. thank you, Jackie. I'll see you in a couple of weeks.
Jacqui: Yes, they are. Thank you, Robert. absolutely.
