Bob Gibson, Baseball's Ultimate Competitor

WEBVTT
00:00:00.719 --> 00:00:06.400
The Major League Baseball that I knew and loved was a battle between the pitcher and the hitter.
00:00:06.400 --> 00:00:12.480
Hank Aaron, for instance, despised pitchers nearly as much as I despised hitters.
00:00:12.480 --> 00:00:19.359
I wouldn't even say hello to hitters on the other teams because I didn't want one of them to get the idea that I liked him or something.
00:00:19.359 --> 00:00:24.960
Or that, since I'd given him the time of day once, I might not buzz one under his chin.
00:00:24.960 --> 00:00:29.839
Hitters were the enemy, and the inside pitch was my warhead.
00:00:29.839 --> 00:00:31.760
My mission was to win.
00:00:31.760 --> 00:00:38.079
And the only man who could keep me from completing that mission was the son of a bitch in the batter's box.
00:00:38.079 --> 00:00:46.880
Alright, well, I just found out this week that there was the ultimate competitor before the ultimate competitor.
00:00:46.880 --> 00:00:55.359
And I just read his book, Stranger to the Game, by baseball legend Bob Gibson, published back in 1994.
00:00:55.359 --> 00:00:57.439
And the book was awesome.
00:00:57.439 --> 00:01:02.719
There's a lot of labels for Bob Gibson that I've heard over the years, and now I know why.
00:01:02.719 --> 00:01:08.239
I did an episode on Ted Williams a while back, and I said he had a special blend of intensity.
00:01:08.239 --> 00:01:11.040
That's exactly how I think about Bob Gibson.
00:01:11.040 --> 00:01:13.280
He created his own unique blend.
00:01:13.280 --> 00:01:15.840
He created the ultimate competitor.
00:01:15.840 --> 00:01:21.120
They called him angry, a jerk, mean, even hateful.
00:01:21.120 --> 00:01:23.680
That opening quote that I just read, he said it himself.
00:01:23.680 --> 00:01:25.599
He despised hitters.
00:01:25.599 --> 00:01:27.599
He despised his opponents.
00:01:27.599 --> 00:01:33.280
But if you're confused about his motives, Gibson lays it all out in his book, Crystal Clear.
00:01:33.280 --> 00:01:36.400
Like he just said, his mission was to win.
00:01:36.400 --> 00:01:38.159
Period, point blank.
00:01:38.159 --> 00:01:43.359
This is why I said before the ultimate competitor, there was Bob Gibson.
00:01:43.359 --> 00:01:47.359
And it's almost like blasphemy to just say that.
00:01:47.359 --> 00:01:49.439
Now, to even go here.
00:01:49.439 --> 00:01:50.959
I'm going to go there.
00:01:50.959 --> 00:01:54.560
That there was anyone more competitive than Mike.
00:01:54.560 --> 00:01:55.920
Michael Jordan.
00:01:55.920 --> 00:02:00.640
I think now ask anyone who's the most competitive athlete of all time.
00:02:00.640 --> 00:02:02.640
Everyone's going to say Michael Jordan.
00:02:02.640 --> 00:02:06.719
We all watched that Netflix series a few years ago, The Last Dance.
00:02:06.719 --> 00:02:11.520
But ask me that question now, after I just read Bob Gibson's book.
00:02:11.520 --> 00:02:14.159
I'm going to say, just hold up a second.
00:02:14.159 --> 00:02:18.000
Before there was Mike, there was Bob Gibson.
00:02:18.000 --> 00:02:19.520
Listen to this.
00:02:19.520 --> 00:02:30.719
I'd like to think that the term intensity comes much closer to summarizing my pitching style than do qualities like meanness and anger, which were merely devices.
00:02:30.719 --> 00:02:40.080
Intensity to me was a matter of focus and desire and energy and power, all packed into nine hellacious innings.
00:02:40.080 --> 00:02:44.800
When those innings were over, my intensity shifted toward winning the next one.
00:02:44.800 --> 00:02:47.439
Intensity was never letting up.
00:02:47.439 --> 00:02:52.800
Between pitches, between innings, between starts, or between seasons.
00:02:52.800 --> 00:02:56.639
Intensity as I knew it was the will to win.
00:02:56.639 --> 00:02:59.759
That was Bob Gibson right out of his book.
00:02:59.759 --> 00:03:05.120
So this is not just an act on the field to look intense.
00:03:05.120 --> 00:03:09.120
This was a matter of focus and desire and energy and power.
00:03:09.120 --> 00:03:10.879
I love that line right there.
00:03:10.879 --> 00:03:13.919
All packed into nine hellacious innings.
00:03:13.919 --> 00:03:20.400
And this is where the acting would stop for most people who just wanted to create some sort of facade or just an image.
00:03:20.400 --> 00:03:28.879
It wasn't an act because after the game, that same focus and desire and energy and power, it shifted toward the next game.
00:03:28.879 --> 00:03:30.240
He never let up.
00:03:30.240 --> 00:03:35.280
He wanted to keep that will the wind burning on and off the field at all times.
00:03:35.280 --> 00:03:40.800
So this creates a little conflict, as you can imagine, on the field.
00:03:40.800 --> 00:03:47.520
And we're going to talk about that conflict in a second, because when you despise your opponents, you have conflict on the field.
00:03:47.520 --> 00:03:48.879
There's no doubt.
00:03:48.879 --> 00:04:01.759
But why Bob Gibson is such an original, unique, ultimate baseball warrior is because exactly what I was just talking about carrying the will to win between starts, between seasons, everywhere you go.
00:04:01.759 --> 00:04:06.560
That's where most of the big time competitors would say, no way.
00:04:06.560 --> 00:04:07.759
It's not worth it.
00:04:07.759 --> 00:04:12.240
I'm going to dial it back now when I'm off the field just a little bit.
00:04:12.240 --> 00:04:13.120
Why?
00:04:13.120 --> 00:04:18.240
Because I don't want people to think I'm mean or angry in real life.
00:04:18.240 --> 00:04:20.560
I have an image to worry about.
00:04:20.560 --> 00:04:22.560
I just want to be liked, right?
00:04:22.560 --> 00:04:24.399
Everybody wants to be liked.
00:04:24.399 --> 00:04:28.639
Gibson knew none of that nonsense would make him a better pitcher.
00:04:28.639 --> 00:04:35.120
Being nice and acting fake are just playing the part of a good guy, none of that's going to help him win.
00:04:35.120 --> 00:04:37.360
So he wasn't interested in it.
00:04:37.360 --> 00:04:40.000
He said, My thing was winning.
00:04:40.000 --> 00:04:44.480
I didn't see how being pleasant or amiable had anything to do with winning.
00:04:44.480 --> 00:04:48.800
So I wasn't pleasant on the mound and I wasn't amiable off it.
00:04:48.800 --> 00:04:54.879
I never hit batters for the sake of hitting them that would have nothing to do with winning.
00:04:54.879 --> 00:04:57.839
All right, he just mentioned hitting batters.
00:04:57.839 --> 00:04:59.120
We're going to get into that.
00:04:59.120 --> 00:05:02.160
Trust me, but I got to stay with this idea for a second.
00:05:02.160 --> 00:05:11.279
In the book, Gibson talks about how being pleasant and amiable on or off the mound would have made it more difficult for him to win.
00:05:11.279 --> 00:05:14.160
By the end of the book, I think he's right.
00:05:14.160 --> 00:05:17.279
It's a pretty convincing argument that he makes.
00:05:17.279 --> 00:05:20.639
So why isn't this the approach that most people take?
00:05:20.639 --> 00:05:23.839
Because it's much, much harder to do.
00:05:23.839 --> 00:05:27.040
Like I said, most people just want to be liked.
00:05:27.040 --> 00:05:30.800
You got to throw that idea of being liked right out the window.
00:05:30.800 --> 00:05:32.800
And that's not easy.
00:05:32.800 --> 00:05:36.160
Gibson didn't want to be friends with anyone on the other team.
00:05:36.160 --> 00:05:40.000
If you were on his team and you were traded, well, now you're the enemy.
00:05:40.000 --> 00:05:41.439
Everyone knew this.
00:05:41.439 --> 00:05:45.600
Not because he explained it and he talked all about it.
00:05:45.600 --> 00:05:46.639
He lived it.
00:05:46.639 --> 00:05:48.560
He sent the message.
00:05:48.560 --> 00:05:51.279
So now just hold up for a second.
00:05:51.279 --> 00:05:55.040
You're probably wondering, isn't life all about relationships?
00:05:55.040 --> 00:05:58.160
And being this great person, this great guy?
00:05:58.160 --> 00:06:00.639
Don't we all want to be remembered like that?
00:06:00.639 --> 00:06:04.079
You know, hey, this guy, he was really a great guy.
00:06:04.079 --> 00:06:05.920
He was just a good dude.
00:06:05.920 --> 00:06:13.360
Sometimes it feels like we're going through our whole day and we're making decisions all day long just to get to that point.
00:06:13.360 --> 00:06:17.199
A long life of just, yep, he was a great guy.
00:06:17.199 --> 00:06:19.839
I mean, I can feel that pressure once in a while.
00:06:19.839 --> 00:06:21.519
I'm sure you might too.
00:06:21.519 --> 00:06:24.879
You don't want to ruffle any feathers out there, right?
00:06:24.879 --> 00:06:28.720
You gotta be nice over here and you gotta say the right thing over there.
00:06:28.720 --> 00:06:31.040
Smile and be friendly.
00:06:31.040 --> 00:06:36.079
And you don't want to give the wrong impression that you're a great guy.
00:06:36.079 --> 00:06:37.519
You're a good person.
00:06:37.519 --> 00:06:42.879
Most people will put that right up there as the most important thing in their entire life overall.
00:06:42.879 --> 00:06:46.160
It's constant, and we get so used to this idea.
00:06:46.160 --> 00:06:49.519
We're all just going around making sure that we're being nice.
00:06:49.519 --> 00:06:51.600
Do you ever feel like that?
00:06:51.600 --> 00:06:55.519
What's the one thing a great person doesn't ever do?
00:06:55.519 --> 00:06:57.920
Well, they would never want to offend anyone.
00:06:57.920 --> 00:07:00.879
In a game or in daily life.
00:07:00.879 --> 00:07:08.319
He said, first and foremost, I was a pitcher who did whatever he could to win.
00:07:08.319 --> 00:07:12.079
I was just a pitcher who took his work very seriously.
00:07:12.079 --> 00:07:16.000
For Gibson, everything is focused on what it takes to beat.
00:07:16.000 --> 00:07:24.319
Like he was saying, that son of a bitch in the batter's box, where most people would draw the line and they'd say, No, I need my reputation as a great person.
00:07:24.319 --> 00:07:26.000
That's just too important.
00:07:26.000 --> 00:07:31.439
Okay, so I instantly thought about Jordan right here in that Netflix series, The Last Dance.
00:07:31.439 --> 00:07:33.839
Everyone watched that series about Michael Jordan.
00:07:33.839 --> 00:07:35.519
Why'd we all watch it?
00:07:35.519 --> 00:07:41.519
We were in awe of the competitive fire, how fierce Jordan was, his intensity.
00:07:41.519 --> 00:07:44.959
We all love to watch this because it's so rare.
00:07:44.959 --> 00:07:50.560
To do whatever it takes to win, you're removing that desire to be a nice guy or to be liked.
00:07:50.560 --> 00:07:52.240
That goes away completely.
00:07:52.240 --> 00:07:53.120
It's gone.
00:07:53.120 --> 00:07:54.399
It doesn't work.
00:07:54.399 --> 00:07:56.240
So the last dance.
00:07:56.240 --> 00:07:57.279
There's a scene in there.
00:07:57.279 --> 00:07:58.879
Everybody knows this scene.
00:07:58.879 --> 00:08:07.680
The interviewer asks Mike, he says, through the years, do you think that intensity has come at the expense of being perceived as a nice guy?
00:08:07.680 --> 00:08:09.199
And this is the last dance.
00:08:09.199 --> 00:08:16.319
It's exactly what Bob Gibson is explaining almost through his entire book, 25 years before the last dance was made.
00:08:16.319 --> 00:08:19.759
But this interviewer, he's asking Michael Jordan that question.
00:08:19.759 --> 00:08:26.639
And Mike gets emotional because it's this decision, the mindset right here that Bob Gibson is describing.
00:08:26.639 --> 00:08:28.319
Here's what Jordan said.
00:08:28.319 --> 00:08:32.639
He said, When people see this, they're going to say, Well, he wasn't really a nice guy.
00:08:32.639 --> 00:08:34.399
He may have been a tyrant.
00:08:34.399 --> 00:08:35.759
Well, that's you.
00:08:35.759 --> 00:08:38.000
Because you never won anything.
00:08:38.000 --> 00:08:40.799
And that's what Jordan said right there when he was asked that question.
00:08:40.799 --> 00:08:45.919
He's talking about the exact same thing that Bob Gibson went out and did his entire career.
00:08:45.919 --> 00:08:48.720
I don't give a shit if you don't think I'm a nice guy.
00:08:48.720 --> 00:08:50.320
My thing is winning.
00:08:50.320 --> 00:08:51.759
That's Gibson.
00:08:51.759 --> 00:09:00.159
And you're not out here on this mound facing these hitters like I am and striking everyone out because you're worried about being a nice guy.
00:09:00.159 --> 00:09:01.679
Well, that's you.
00:09:01.679 --> 00:09:04.159
Because you never won anything.
00:09:04.159 --> 00:09:07.039
Here's the end of that Jordan quote from The Last Dance.
00:09:07.039 --> 00:09:08.799
He goes on with this idea.
00:09:08.799 --> 00:09:09.679
And this is what he says.
00:09:09.679 --> 00:09:14.559
He goes, I wanted to win, but I wanted them to win and be a part of that as well.
00:09:14.559 --> 00:09:16.399
Look, I don't have to do this.
00:09:16.399 --> 00:09:19.279
I'm only doing this because it is who I am.
00:09:19.279 --> 00:09:21.120
That's how I played the game.
00:09:21.120 --> 00:09:22.879
That was my mentality.
00:09:22.879 --> 00:09:26.480
If you don't want to play that way, don't play that way.
00:09:26.480 --> 00:09:30.559
So this is so that was like the big scene from the entire series right there.
00:09:30.559 --> 00:09:33.600
Jordan gets emotional when he's talking about this.
00:09:33.600 --> 00:09:38.000
And now that I read the book on Bob Gibson, I understand it so much better.
00:09:38.000 --> 00:09:42.639
He was emotional because it's not an easy choice, even for him.
00:09:42.639 --> 00:09:46.159
We all want to be known as a great guy, a good person.
00:09:46.159 --> 00:09:47.600
That feels so good.
00:09:47.600 --> 00:09:52.960
It's not easy to know that you made a choice to put winning above all else.
00:09:52.960 --> 00:09:58.320
There's some second guessing going on with Gibson and maybe Jordan too.
00:09:58.320 --> 00:09:59.840
Was I too tough?
00:09:59.840 --> 00:10:01.519
Was I too mean?
00:10:01.519 --> 00:10:02.559
Nah.
00:10:02.559 --> 00:10:04.320
Fuck all that.
00:10:04.320 --> 00:10:13.360
Being a great guy, how you're perceived, what everybody says about you, if you're nice, none of that matters because you're committed to winning.
00:10:13.360 --> 00:10:14.399
That's it.
00:10:14.399 --> 00:10:17.919
And there's very, very few people who can make that commitment.
00:10:17.919 --> 00:10:21.279
This entire book from Gibson explains why it's so hard.
00:10:21.279 --> 00:10:22.399
It sucks.
00:10:22.399 --> 00:10:25.759
There's a giant cost to commit to winning.
00:10:25.759 --> 00:10:30.159
But if you don't like it, if you can't get with that, well, that's you.
00:10:30.159 --> 00:10:32.639
Because you never won anything.
00:10:32.639 --> 00:10:34.159
It's crazy.
00:10:34.159 --> 00:10:36.480
Gibson published this book in 1994.
00:10:36.480 --> 00:10:42.159
Michael Jordan and the Chicago Bulls just won their third championship in a row in 1993.
00:10:42.159 --> 00:10:49.840
The year Michael Jordan was born, it was the same year Bob Gibson made his first All-Star game, 1963.
00:10:49.840 --> 00:10:55.679
That's why I said earlier, before Air Jordan, there was Bob Gibson.
00:10:55.679 --> 00:10:57.919
So how do you do it?
00:10:57.919 --> 00:11:00.159
You can't just talk about this.
00:11:00.159 --> 00:11:03.759
You can't just hope and want and have the desire to win.
00:11:03.759 --> 00:11:05.440
You have to do it.
00:11:05.440 --> 00:11:10.799
Action, day in, day out, on the mound and off the mound.
00:11:10.799 --> 00:11:15.039
Everywhere you go, everything you do, it's all geared toward winning.
00:11:15.039 --> 00:11:19.120
A serious attitude focused on winning at all times.
00:11:19.120 --> 00:11:20.320
Gibson said this.
00:11:20.320 --> 00:11:25.120
He says, Everything I did on the field was calculated to gain the upper hand.
00:11:25.120 --> 00:11:27.919
And I always figured that the other guy had the same agenda.
00:11:27.919 --> 00:11:32.399
Nobody got the benefit of the doubt from me in the heat of a ballgame.
00:11:32.399 --> 00:11:36.320
So he said, when I was on the mound, I didn't believe in screwing around.
00:11:36.320 --> 00:11:41.279
I wanted only to get the ball and throw it and win the game and go home.
00:11:41.279 --> 00:11:46.399
And one thing that creates a lot of conflict in baseball is pitching inside.
00:11:46.399 --> 00:11:49.519
But it's a key part of being successful on the mound.
00:11:49.519 --> 00:11:56.320
And if you're brave enough to do it, it shall be done back to you and your teammates.
00:11:56.320 --> 00:12:02.320
The other pitcher is sure as hell is going to throw inside too, and there's going to be plenty of conflict going on.
00:12:02.320 --> 00:12:12.799
Gibson says in his book, he says, quote, the idea of pitching inside is not to strike fear in their hearts, but to make them think about and respect the inside pitch.
00:12:12.799 --> 00:12:16.559
It was a matter of doing what was necessary to get the batter out.
00:12:16.559 --> 00:12:19.120
And if that made me mean, then what the hell?
00:12:19.120 --> 00:12:20.799
I guess I was mean.
00:12:20.799 --> 00:12:25.679
So one of one of Gibson's teammates, Tim McCarver, he was a catcher for Gibson for a long time.
00:12:25.679 --> 00:12:30.480
He says, I never saw anyone as compelled to win as Bob Gibson was.
00:12:30.480 --> 00:12:32.320
Gibson hated to lose.
00:12:32.320 --> 00:12:36.159
And because of that, he hated the competition, hated them.
00:12:36.159 --> 00:12:38.559
And that's not just during the game.
00:12:38.559 --> 00:12:41.279
All the time, he hated the competition.
00:12:41.279 --> 00:12:45.360
During All-Star Games, Gibson didn't talk to the other all-stars.
00:12:45.360 --> 00:12:47.759
Of course, Gibson's there every year.
00:12:47.759 --> 00:12:50.159
He refused to talk to any of them.
00:12:50.159 --> 00:12:51.600
They were the enemy.
00:12:51.600 --> 00:12:55.679
He didn't care if they were on the same team for one game, one all-star game.
00:12:55.679 --> 00:12:59.120
They were all the players who were trying to beat him in the regular season.
00:12:59.120 --> 00:13:01.679
So he refused to talk to any of them.
00:13:01.679 --> 00:13:04.399
Joe Torrey was a teammate of Gibson's.
00:13:04.399 --> 00:13:08.799
He says, I wouldn't say that Gibson was unfriendly when he pitched.
00:13:08.799 --> 00:13:10.559
Hateful is more like it.
00:13:10.559 --> 00:13:12.960
On the field he tried to intimidate you.
00:13:12.960 --> 00:13:15.519
Gibby wouldn't let anyone in.
00:13:15.519 --> 00:13:19.440
There's a good reason why he wouldn't let anyone in.
00:13:19.440 --> 00:13:24.399
Gibson really believed there was the power of mystery on the mound that helped him win.
00:13:24.399 --> 00:13:28.320
He had the advantage if the hitter didn't know what he was thinking.
00:13:28.320 --> 00:13:34.559
And it makes perfect sense, but again, most people can't pull this off because it takes total commitment.
00:13:34.559 --> 00:13:37.919
You can't be fishing buddies with any of your opponents now.
00:13:37.919 --> 00:13:39.279
You can't go to dinner.
00:13:39.279 --> 00:13:40.399
You can't joke.
00:13:40.399 --> 00:13:42.639
No stories, no smiles.
00:13:42.639 --> 00:13:49.120
Listen to this, Gibson says, the basis of intimidation, as I practiced it, was mystery.
00:13:49.120 --> 00:13:58.240
I wanted the hitter to know nothing about me, about my wife, my children, my religion, my politics, my hobbies, my tastes, my feelings, nothing.
00:13:58.240 --> 00:14:03.600
I figured the more they knew about me, the more they knew what I might do in a certain situation.
00:14:03.600 --> 00:14:06.639
So this is not easy to do.
00:14:06.639 --> 00:14:11.440
You think anyone wants to become a superstar athlete and then be a complete mystery?
00:14:11.440 --> 00:14:14.000
For most people, it's the complete opposite.
00:14:14.000 --> 00:14:16.720
They get famous, now they want to do interviews.
00:14:16.720 --> 00:14:20.240
They want to tell their story and let everyone know how great they are.
00:14:20.240 --> 00:14:21.840
Not Gibson.
00:14:21.840 --> 00:14:26.799
He talks about the psychology of pitching and messing with the hitters mentally.
00:14:26.799 --> 00:14:30.639
What separated the greats from everybody else was the mental side.
00:14:30.639 --> 00:14:36.639
Gibson thought that 90% of his success was from this mental aspect that he's talking about right here.
00:14:36.639 --> 00:14:40.480
One great method that he came up with was creating this mystery.
00:14:40.480 --> 00:14:46.720
He was such a mystery nobody knew what he was thinking, and that intimidated the hell out of all the hitters.
00:14:46.720 --> 00:14:52.639
Quote, I was so intent on remaining mysterious that I carried it to the extreme.
00:14:52.639 --> 00:14:59.440
I refused to let the coaches or anyone clock the speed of my pitches, for instance, because I didn't want the information going around.
00:14:59.440 --> 00:15:07.840
I refused to talk to our team psychologists because all he could do was find out more about me, and I didn't want anyone knowing more about me.
00:15:07.840 --> 00:15:16.480
So this is what opponents started telling their teammates about Gibson, the mystery and the legend of Bob Gibson.
00:15:16.480 --> 00:15:24.240
His opponents were out there spreading the word on how dangerous he was, how unpredictable and mean and nasty he was.
00:15:24.240 --> 00:15:27.039
This is exactly what Gibson wanted him to do.
00:15:27.039 --> 00:15:28.159
It worked.
00:15:28.159 --> 00:15:29.600
Here's an example.
00:15:29.600 --> 00:15:35.039
Hank Aaron told one of his teammates before he faced Gibson this was his advice.
00:15:35.039 --> 00:15:38.080
He says, Don't dig in against Bob Gibson.
00:15:38.080 --> 00:15:39.120
He'll knock you down.
00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:40.960
He'll knock down his own grandmother.
00:15:40.960 --> 00:15:44.080
Don't stare at him, don't smile at him, don't talk to him.
00:15:44.080 --> 00:15:45.360
He doesn't like it.
00:15:45.360 --> 00:15:49.840
If you happen to hit a home run, don't run too slow and don't run too fast.
00:15:49.840 --> 00:15:52.879
If you want to celebrate, get in the tunnel first.
00:15:52.879 --> 00:15:58.000
And if he hits you, don't charge the mound because he's a golden gloves boxer.
00:15:58.000 --> 00:16:04.559
That was Hank Aaron's advice to his teammate, Dusty Baker, on facing Gibson.
00:16:04.559 --> 00:16:06.159
You see how this works now.
00:16:06.159 --> 00:16:08.159
He created this mystique.
00:16:08.159 --> 00:16:12.080
He's got you beat before you even step into the batter's box.
00:16:12.080 --> 00:16:14.799
Don't dig in, don't stare at him.
00:16:14.799 --> 00:16:18.639
You're a big league hitter and you're totally mental now.
00:16:18.639 --> 00:16:23.120
Trying to hit this guy who even Hank Aaron is running around warning people about.
00:16:23.120 --> 00:16:28.720
So to keep this mystery going, Gibson carries it off the mound everywhere he went.
00:16:28.720 --> 00:16:34.879
Right into the clubhouse and into interviews when the reporters and the press start asking him questions.
00:16:34.879 --> 00:16:36.240
Listen to this.
00:16:36.240 --> 00:16:41.519
It was to preserve my image that I was never particularly friendly with the press.
00:16:41.519 --> 00:16:47.440
If I revealed too much of myself to them, it would tear down the wall of mystery I had carefully built up.
00:16:47.440 --> 00:16:52.399
My relationship with the press might have hurt me in the long run, but it helped my pitching.
00:16:52.399 --> 00:16:54.799
And that was all I cared about at the time.
00:16:54.799 --> 00:17:01.679
So now when you combine this mystery of Gibson out on the mound with the tactics, someone who wasn't afraid to follow through.
00:17:01.679 --> 00:17:04.960
This is what I'm talking about when I say ultimate competitor.
00:17:04.960 --> 00:17:07.200
This was calculated and deliberate.
00:17:07.200 --> 00:17:10.799
It was intimidation that was both physical and psychological.
00:17:10.799 --> 00:17:14.319
He knew he was in the head of the hitter, like no other.
00:17:14.319 --> 00:17:17.599
So he played his cards perfectly with his opponents.
00:17:17.599 --> 00:17:19.119
But don't forget this.
00:17:19.119 --> 00:17:21.920
There's only one way this all works out.
00:17:21.920 --> 00:17:25.200
He also had to have the physical skill to back it up.
00:17:25.200 --> 00:17:27.359
He's got to be able to bring the heat.
00:17:27.359 --> 00:17:31.200
If you can't deal nasty stuff on the mound, none of this works.
00:17:31.200 --> 00:17:33.279
One didn't go without the other.
00:17:33.279 --> 00:17:50.480
He says, while I went the extra mile to gain every psychological advantage I could muster, I realized at the same time that my ability to intimidate, to use intimidation as an effective pitching device, was in direct proportion to the speed and movement of my fastball.
00:17:50.480 --> 00:17:55.119
There was no way I could have built up the reputation that I did by throwing junk.
00:17:55.119 --> 00:17:57.680
In fact, it worked both ways.
00:17:57.680 --> 00:18:00.799
I could not have intimidated anybody with bad stuff.
00:18:00.799 --> 00:18:08.559
And at the same time, intimidation made my stuff a little better, my fastball a little faster, and my slider a little sharper.
00:18:08.559 --> 00:18:12.000
Now Gibson's got the mental side working.
00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:13.599
He's got this mystery around him.
00:18:13.599 --> 00:18:18.319
He's got the tools and the skill and the filthy slider and fastball out on the mound.
00:18:18.319 --> 00:18:21.279
So how do you make all that work in your favor?
00:18:21.279 --> 00:18:22.400
Over and over.
00:18:22.400 --> 00:18:27.200
There's a great explanation in the book that he makes on the method to the madness.
00:18:27.200 --> 00:18:28.960
I guess you could call it that.
00:18:28.960 --> 00:18:34.480
Gibson says he didn't just have the five pitches that people say that he had.
00:18:34.480 --> 00:18:40.880
They said he threw a fastball and a slider, curveball changeup, and then a knockdown pitch.
00:18:40.880 --> 00:18:42.160
That's five.
00:18:42.160 --> 00:18:44.400
Not true, Gibson says.
00:18:44.400 --> 00:18:47.119
He didn't have just five pitches.
00:18:47.119 --> 00:18:50.880
He goes, he actually had nine different pitches that he used.
00:18:50.880 --> 00:19:02.400
He says it was two different fastballs, two sliders, a curveball, a changeup, then a knockdown pitch, a brushback pitch, and then the hit batsman.
00:19:02.400 --> 00:19:04.720
That's nine different pitches right there.
00:19:04.720 --> 00:19:11.440
Now he says, hold on, let's take a closer look at those last three, because they're very strategic.
00:19:11.440 --> 00:19:18.640
And then he starts in, he goes, the brushback, he says, was the most common and the least severe pitch that he used.
00:19:18.640 --> 00:19:21.920
And that was just to reclaim the inside of the plate.
00:19:21.920 --> 00:19:32.480
So if a hitter's getting too close to the plate, which means he wants to reach the outside pitches where he can extend his arms, that's where they're most powerful when they get those arms extended.
00:19:32.480 --> 00:19:38.559
So he says he needs to brush them back just to keep them honest about getting too comfortable and too close.
00:19:38.559 --> 00:19:40.480
Now there's the knockdown.
00:19:40.480 --> 00:19:45.839
And this was, he says the knockdown was basically a brushback pitch with an attitude.
00:19:45.839 --> 00:19:54.079
So the biggest difference between the two, the knockdown pitch meant that the batter should not still be standing on his feet when the ball hit the catcher's mit.
00:19:54.079 --> 00:19:55.759
That's the knockdown.
00:19:55.759 --> 00:19:59.119
It was a statement of retaliation and intimidation.
00:19:59.119 --> 00:20:04.480
So remember, I was saying there's constant conflict if you're taking this path of winning at all cost.
00:20:04.480 --> 00:20:09.039
So you have to retaliate because the other team is now doing the same thing to you.
00:20:09.039 --> 00:20:11.039
That's the knockdown pitch.
00:20:11.039 --> 00:20:16.720
Now finally, there's the hit batsman, which was rare, he said, but sometimes he had to do it.
00:20:16.720 --> 00:20:18.559
He says, I want to emphasize this.
00:20:18.559 --> 00:20:23.599
It was rare, but there were times I had to discharge a hitter by plunking them.
00:20:23.599 --> 00:20:25.359
And never in the head.
00:20:25.359 --> 00:20:29.519
He says, he did hit a few guys in the head, but never on purpose.
00:20:29.519 --> 00:20:31.759
He would only hit guys in the body.
00:20:31.759 --> 00:20:37.839
Now combine all three of these pitches the brushback, the knockdown, and the hit batsman.
00:20:37.839 --> 00:20:42.160
And there you have this intimidation strategy that he worked hard to create.
00:20:42.160 --> 00:20:55.039
He says, quote, in my estimation, it wasn't so much the prospect of the ball in the batter's box that did the job in this respect, but the fact that the batter never knew what the hell was going on in my mind.
00:20:55.039 --> 00:20:59.680
The basis of intimidation as I practiced it was mystery.
00:20:59.680 --> 00:21:02.559
And this is one of the most common themes now.
00:21:02.559 --> 00:21:08.319
In all my baseball legend stories that I've done, Gibson grew up with very humble beginnings.
00:21:08.319 --> 00:21:11.200
As a kid, he had a great mentor.
00:21:11.200 --> 00:21:17.359
His older brother Josh was 15 years older than he was, and he worked him out hard as a kid.
00:21:17.359 --> 00:21:20.319
He shaped him into this super competitive youngster.
00:21:20.319 --> 00:21:29.759
Gibson said his older brother, he said, as much as I hated him sometimes, it was impossible not to admire and believe in Josh because he led by example.
00:21:29.759 --> 00:21:35.599
So Gibson's father passed away a few months before he was born, and they didn't have much of anything.
00:21:35.599 --> 00:21:40.240
His mother was strict and tried to keep him out of trouble, and so sports was the way to do it.
00:21:40.240 --> 00:21:44.160
It was basketball and baseball would be those two sports growing up.
00:21:44.160 --> 00:21:52.319
I did an episode on Ty Cobb, and in this book I read on Cobb, they said he was a bare-knuckled battler when he was a kid.
00:21:52.319 --> 00:21:55.200
There's some of that in Gibson as he's growing up.
00:21:55.200 --> 00:21:59.599
He had to stand up for himself from time to time, but he battles through.
00:21:59.599 --> 00:22:03.920
And he ends up playing basketball for the Globetrotters for a while.
00:22:03.920 --> 00:22:06.720
And he's making $4,000 in a season.
00:22:06.720 --> 00:22:08.799
So he's approached by a scout from the St.
00:22:08.799 --> 00:22:13.839
Louis Cardinals baseball team, and they find out how much he's making playing basketball.
00:22:13.839 --> 00:22:18.640
And the scout says, Well, if I pay you four grand, would you quit and come and play baseball?
00:22:18.640 --> 00:22:20.000
So Gibson agrees.
00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:37.519
He says, it was the best deal he ever made because now, for the first time, he's heading into one direction only to become a big league ball player, which he does, and he becomes an all-star pitcher and a World Series champion in 1964, and then again in 1967.
00:22:37.519 --> 00:22:39.680
He dominates the World Series.
00:22:39.680 --> 00:22:43.839
He's known as one of the great big game pitchers of all time.
00:22:43.839 --> 00:22:52.480
And then in 1968, one of the greatest pitching seasons ever, Bob Gibson dominated the entire season.
00:22:52.480 --> 00:23:02.799
He had an ERA of 1.12 for the entire season, which was the record lowest ERA since the dead ball era ended back in 1919.
00:23:02.799 --> 00:23:05.839
Here's what he said about that 1968 season.
00:23:05.839 --> 00:23:10.799
He said, at the All-Star break, my earned run average was 1.06.
00:23:10.799 --> 00:23:25.200
For weeks and weeks, I was always ahead in the count, which can't be underestimated, and seemed so completely immune from mistakes or from the best efforts of the men I faced that at times my biggest problem might have been keeping my teammates interested.
00:23:25.200 --> 00:23:28.240
So he's out there just mowing down everyone.
00:23:28.240 --> 00:23:38.240
There's a stretch in that 1968 season where he went 95 innings and he gave up only two earned runs for an ERA of 0.19.
00:23:38.240 --> 00:23:42.319
He called it the most amazing eight weeks of my life.
00:23:42.319 --> 00:23:49.680
In that season, Gibson completed 28 of his 34 starts, and he only failed to get to the eighth inning twice.
00:23:49.680 --> 00:23:58.240
And during this period, there's a streak of 56 starts where he never was relieved in the middle of an inning, which is crazy.
00:23:58.240 --> 00:24:00.799
So this is what legends do right here.
00:24:00.799 --> 00:24:06.160
They change the game, they create a lasting memory and legacy.
00:24:06.160 --> 00:24:13.279
Not that there isn't enough legend with Gibson, the knockdowns and the intensity and all the stories and the mystery.
00:24:13.279 --> 00:24:15.039
There's plenty of that here already.
00:24:15.039 --> 00:24:21.359
I'm talking about achievements that change the game and shape the culture of the sport.
00:24:21.359 --> 00:24:31.279
After this dominating performance in 1968, baseball changed the rules to help out the poor hitters, who looked completely overmatched.
00:24:31.279 --> 00:24:35.279
There were other pitchers who had great seasons in this 1968 year.
00:24:35.279 --> 00:24:39.279
Gibson wasn't the only one, but he dominated like no other.
00:24:39.279 --> 00:24:46.079
They lowered the pitching mound from 15 inches down to 10 inches after the 1968 season.
00:24:46.079 --> 00:24:49.519
They were hoping to give the hitters more of a chance at the plate.
00:24:49.519 --> 00:24:57.920
They shrunk the strike zone, trying to force pitchers to throw the ball right down the middle so it could be hit a little more easily.
00:24:57.920 --> 00:25:05.119
And the worst change that they made, as far as Gibson was concerned, umpires started to warn pitchers of throwing inside.
00:25:05.119 --> 00:25:08.319
He was not happy with that change.
00:25:08.319 --> 00:25:14.559
He said the commissioner's office was reaching straight into my pocket on that rule change.
00:25:14.559 --> 00:25:21.039
They didn't want the high-paid superstar slugger hitters to risk getting hurt with a beanball.
00:25:21.039 --> 00:25:24.640
And they knew the fans wanted more home runs and excitement.
00:25:24.640 --> 00:25:33.200
Now, as he gets into his last few years of his career, it happens to Gibson just like almost all the other baseball legend stories that I've done.
00:25:33.200 --> 00:25:39.599
I said in my last Mickey Mantle episode, and I say it in most of my episodes, this is not a fairy tale.
00:25:39.599 --> 00:25:48.319
It's real, painful, tough, hard things that these old ballplayers had to go through, just like everybody else.
00:25:48.319 --> 00:25:53.759
Gibson goes through a divorce that left him almost broke after 20 years of marriage.
00:25:53.759 --> 00:25:59.440
He's got two kids that he loves, and he's trying to figure out what he should do after baseball.
00:25:59.440 --> 00:26:04.160
And this is where the comparisons between Jordan and Gibson kind of stop.
00:26:04.160 --> 00:26:09.759
Bob Gibson was playing almost in a different world back in the 60s.
00:26:09.759 --> 00:26:15.279
There's civil unrest, there's racial tension, political violence, there's assassinations.
00:26:15.279 --> 00:26:17.359
Gibson wanted to win.
00:26:17.359 --> 00:26:18.319
That was it.
00:26:18.319 --> 00:26:26.319
Let me just put it this way: he didn't have any handlers or coaching trying to create this marketable image for the public.
00:26:26.319 --> 00:26:28.559
He didn't even have an agent.
00:26:28.559 --> 00:26:32.880
It was just him out there in the 1960s America.
00:26:32.880 --> 00:26:34.160
Listen to this.
00:26:34.160 --> 00:26:40.720
He said, I arrived at the stadium and a television reporter inquired if he could ask me a couple questions.
00:26:40.720 --> 00:26:42.000
I said, sure.
00:26:42.000 --> 00:26:45.839
Presuming he was going to talk about Horton or Cash or McLean.
00:26:45.839 --> 00:26:50.400
Instead, he said, What do you think of the black people demonstrating under the arch?
00:26:50.400 --> 00:26:52.079
I stared at him for a second.
00:26:52.079 --> 00:26:54.079
I said, I don't give a -blank.
00:26:54.079 --> 00:26:56.319
I've got a ballgame to pitch.
00:26:56.319 --> 00:26:59.519
I don't believe that interview made the air.
00:26:59.519 --> 00:27:01.920
Now, this is what I'm talking about right here.
00:27:01.920 --> 00:27:07.759
It's by the 1990s with Jordan, there's an understanding about how to deal with the press.
00:27:07.759 --> 00:27:11.440
Because over the years there's so much money riding on the image.
00:27:11.440 --> 00:27:13.359
Remember what we were talking about?
00:27:13.359 --> 00:27:14.799
Are you a good dude?
00:27:14.799 --> 00:27:15.839
Are you a good person?
00:27:15.839 --> 00:27:17.519
Do the kids love you?
00:27:17.519 --> 00:27:20.000
Are you generally a nice guy?
00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:21.599
Is that the image?
00:27:21.599 --> 00:27:23.039
Can we market that?
00:27:23.039 --> 00:27:26.160
Can the brands get with that and partner with it?
00:27:26.160 --> 00:27:34.640
And you can generate millions of dollars, billions now, just by fitting into that mold and not rocking the boat too much.
00:27:34.640 --> 00:27:37.039
Remember, I want to be like Mike.
00:27:37.039 --> 00:27:41.440
That good guy appeal is worth millions if you're a star athlete.
00:27:41.440 --> 00:27:46.079
That was why we were all stunned when we watched that last dance series.
00:27:46.079 --> 00:27:50.319
Because they kept that under wraps for decades.
00:27:50.319 --> 00:27:55.279
And then they finally unveiled what Mike was actually like behind the scenes.
00:27:55.279 --> 00:27:57.599
In 2020, that's when that came out.
00:27:57.599 --> 00:28:02.240
This was decades after Mike had to watch his image.
00:28:02.240 --> 00:28:06.000
So yeah, Gibson was before any of that.
00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:09.519
His attitude was very simple.
00:28:09.519 --> 00:28:11.519
It was to win.
00:28:11.519 --> 00:28:20.400
Quote: In the order of priorities, I regarded myself as a ball player with a personal point of view, not an activist with a fastball.
00:28:20.400 --> 00:28:26.319
My idea of clubhouse ideology was the button I stuck over my locker before the series.
00:28:26.319 --> 00:28:28.720
It said, I'm not prejudiced.
00:28:28.720 --> 00:28:30.480
I hate everybody.
00:28:30.480 --> 00:28:33.680
And this is why he was great.
00:28:33.680 --> 00:28:36.000
It was that mentality right there.
00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:38.079
It's crazy back in the day.
00:28:38.079 --> 00:28:41.119
The 1960s and 70s, they're so different.
00:28:41.119 --> 00:28:47.359
And I so I was talking about Mike, I call him Mike, talking about Michael Jordan and his intensity.
00:28:47.359 --> 00:28:49.440
Remember, he cared about winning.
00:28:49.440 --> 00:28:55.359
If you thought he was a bully or a mean guy, well, that's you because you never won anything.
00:28:55.359 --> 00:28:57.759
Remember, Gibson was the same way.
00:28:57.759 --> 00:29:06.880
But the big difference between Jordan and Gibson, Bob Gibson was reminded the hard way, that he didn't make many friends during his playing days.
00:29:06.880 --> 00:29:16.960
While he was out there pitching, he wasn't thinking about setting himself up for a job after baseball by networking or schmoozing, trying to craft a public image.
00:29:16.960 --> 00:29:18.240
Forget all that.
00:29:18.240 --> 00:29:19.519
He wanted to win.
00:29:19.519 --> 00:29:20.799
That was his mindset.
00:29:20.799 --> 00:29:24.640
Then he gets out of baseball and now the phone's not ringing.
00:29:24.640 --> 00:29:26.799
So in the book, it's a lot of the book.
00:29:26.799 --> 00:29:31.839
He talks about, of course, it's because I played the game hard, is what he's saying.
00:29:31.839 --> 00:29:33.039
Maybe I was a jerk.
00:29:33.039 --> 00:29:35.680
Maybe I was mean, but I wanted to win.
00:29:35.680 --> 00:29:39.039
And he says, So what's so hard to understand about that?
00:29:39.039 --> 00:29:45.680
So when Gibson's career ended, nobody wanted to hire the tough competitor that was known as a mean guy.
00:29:45.680 --> 00:29:58.559
No, they were going to go hire the players who got along with everyone, who were known as the good people, the personable, manageable, reasonable players, not somebody who only cared about winning at all costs.
00:29:58.559 --> 00:30:00.799
And this hurt him, and he wanted to work.
00:30:00.799 --> 00:30:04.400
He wanted to stay in the game after he retired playing.
00:30:04.400 --> 00:30:07.839
He said, When I'm not working, I'm not satisfied.
00:30:07.839 --> 00:30:11.200
I'm restless, unfulfilled, even nervous.
00:30:11.200 --> 00:30:15.200
As a pitcher, I experienced a hell of a lot of pressure and thrived on it.
00:30:15.200 --> 00:30:27.519
But even then, even in the heat of the pennant race, and in the ninth inning of a seventh game of the World Series, I never felt stress that was anything like the stress I feel now, trying to earn a living for my family.
00:30:27.519 --> 00:30:30.640
It's an anxiety that doesn't ever really go away.
00:30:30.640 --> 00:30:35.119
And it's compounded by the fact that it doesn't make any apparent sense.
00:30:35.119 --> 00:30:37.839
And he struggled to make sense of what happened.
00:30:37.839 --> 00:30:42.079
And he writes this book and he's trying to work it out really through this book.
00:30:42.079 --> 00:30:52.240
After being one of the top pitchers to ever play the game, he just couldn't figure out why he didn't have more choices to coach or to work in the game after his playing days were over.
00:30:52.240 --> 00:30:56.160
Hence the title of his book, Stranger to the Game.
00:30:56.160 --> 00:31:09.519
He sort of realizes as he's writing the book that his persona, his intensity, and all the actions that he knew he had to take to win and become the best, all those actions really hurt his reputation once his career was over.
00:31:09.519 --> 00:31:13.759
He said, When I made my career choice, it was to join the St.
00:31:13.759 --> 00:31:15.440
Louis baseball organization.
00:31:15.440 --> 00:31:19.440
And now, having followed that choice, I am without a career.
00:31:19.440 --> 00:31:23.119
To support my family and retain my self-respect, I need a career.
00:31:23.119 --> 00:31:24.559
I need to work.
00:31:24.559 --> 00:31:26.720
Here's what I mean right here.
00:31:26.720 --> 00:31:29.279
This is how he says it in the end of his book.
00:31:29.279 --> 00:31:31.119
He knows what happened.
00:31:31.119 --> 00:31:48.960
He says, the goddamn irony of it all is that the very things that made me the pitcher I was 25 years ago, my intensity and total devotion to the job, the effects of which made me nasty in the eyes of outsiders, might, in a twisted way, be what's keeping me out of the game today.
00:31:48.960 --> 00:31:52.480
Like I said, he goes a lot into this in the book.
00:31:52.480 --> 00:31:59.359
But one thing right here, I gotta say, this is actually a big theme in all my baseball legend stories that I've been doing.
00:31:59.359 --> 00:32:03.599
I've read all of these books, and at the end of the books, they're almost always the same.
00:32:03.599 --> 00:32:05.119
It's just like this.
00:32:05.119 --> 00:32:08.079
The game moves on without the star player.
00:32:08.079 --> 00:32:10.799
And they're left wondering what happened.
00:32:10.799 --> 00:32:13.200
Babe Ruth, he wanted to manage.
00:32:13.200 --> 00:32:15.359
He wanted to manage the Yankees.
00:32:15.359 --> 00:32:17.839
And the Yankee owners, they were like, forget it.
00:32:17.839 --> 00:32:19.119
You're not going to be the manager.
00:32:19.119 --> 00:32:20.319
Are you nuts?
00:32:20.319 --> 00:32:22.640
And the babe was just crushed by that.
00:32:22.640 --> 00:32:24.160
He just couldn't believe it.
00:32:24.160 --> 00:32:31.119
Hannes Wagner, Ty Cobb, even Ted Williams, who tried to manage a few years after his playing days were over.
00:32:31.119 --> 00:32:33.200
It didn't go very well for him.
00:32:33.200 --> 00:32:36.559
Mickey Mann struggled after his playing days were over.
00:32:36.559 --> 00:32:38.960
So Gibson he talks about it a lot.
00:32:38.960 --> 00:32:47.359
He says again, to an extent, I think my reputation as an intimidator obscured a lot of other things I had going for me as a pitcher.
00:32:47.359 --> 00:32:54.960
It was almost as if the real me, or the real pitcher that was me, had been devoured by the monster that I created.
00:32:54.960 --> 00:32:58.079
So it's just a combination of a lot of things right here.
00:32:58.079 --> 00:33:05.119
It's an extreme case when Gibson was already known as just such a competitor and a difficult guy to deal with when he played.
00:33:05.119 --> 00:33:08.400
But also it's just pro sports in general.
00:33:08.400 --> 00:33:15.440
When the owners are looking for the next big thing, when you're getting older, no matter how great you were, the game is moving on.
00:33:15.440 --> 00:33:17.440
So he says it again.
00:33:17.440 --> 00:33:19.599
Like I said, he talks a lot about it.
00:33:19.599 --> 00:33:20.480
Listen to this.
00:33:20.480 --> 00:33:23.599
I don't appreciate being introduced.
00:33:23.599 --> 00:33:27.920
As I often am these days, as the world's meanest ball player.
00:33:27.920 --> 00:33:30.799
I don't think that's necessarily a compliment.
00:33:30.799 --> 00:33:36.799
It's as if my tombstone's going to read, Here lies the meanest son of a bitch who ever towed the rubber.
00:33:36.799 --> 00:33:41.599
I really don't want to be remembered as a bad son of a bitch who pitched a little.
00:33:41.599 --> 00:33:50.880
That diminishes my game and trivializes the fact that I set World Series records, won two Cy Young's and nine straight gold glove awards.
00:33:50.880 --> 00:33:59.839
So I was talking about that Netflix series, The Last Dance, when Michael Jordan was explaining what it took, what he thought he had to do to win.
00:33:59.839 --> 00:34:02.160
And it wasn't always pretty.
00:34:02.160 --> 00:34:08.000
He felt like he had to call people out, be mean, tough, sometimes a jerk.
00:34:08.000 --> 00:34:09.119
That's what it took.
00:34:09.119 --> 00:34:10.400
He knew that.
00:34:10.400 --> 00:34:12.079
He believed it.
00:34:12.079 --> 00:34:17.440
Bob Gibson passed away in October 2020 at age 84.
00:34:17.440 --> 00:34:23.039
Four months after that Netflix series came out on Michael Jordan, The Last Dance.
00:34:23.039 --> 00:34:32.719
I said earlier, Michael Jordan was born early 1963, four months before Bob Gibson made his very first All-Star game.
00:34:32.719 --> 00:34:41.840
Gibson wasn't able to pitch in that first All-Star game because just two days before that, he pitched a complete game shutout for the Cardinals team.
00:34:41.840 --> 00:34:53.840
So I'm sure he sat in that dugout at the All-Star game silent, maybe even glaring at his All-Star teammates, knowing that they're the enemy that he'd have to battle against the rest of the season.
00:34:53.840 --> 00:35:00.239
They said Gibson was especially mean to the rookies, trying to strike fear in them and crush their spirits.
00:35:00.239 --> 00:35:04.639
There was one rookie who asked him to sign a baseball for him before a game.
00:35:04.639 --> 00:35:07.360
He was a big fan of Gibson's growing up.
00:35:07.360 --> 00:35:11.840
I took the ball and tossed it over my shoulder into left field.
00:35:11.840 --> 00:35:17.440
That's what Gibson said he did when he was asked for an autograph from a rookie player.
00:35:17.440 --> 00:35:22.159
There's another story that Gibson tells about Ernie Banks, the great Cub player.
00:35:22.159 --> 00:35:29.760
He says, one day at Old Bush Stadium, he came by during batting practice and he said, Gibby, you pitching tomorrow?
00:35:29.760 --> 00:35:31.199
We gonna beat you.
00:35:31.199 --> 00:35:33.280
We gonna beat your ass tomorrow.
00:35:33.280 --> 00:35:35.440
Hey man, we gonna beat you.
00:35:35.440 --> 00:35:38.400
I said, Ernie, you better leave me alone.
00:35:38.400 --> 00:35:41.119
It wasn't in his nature to do that, though.
00:35:41.119 --> 00:35:43.360
And the next day I answered him.
00:35:43.360 --> 00:35:46.320
The first pitch got him in the ribs.
00:35:46.320 --> 00:35:48.719
I ended up with a three-hitter that day.
00:35:48.719 --> 00:35:56.239
And afterward I watched the Cubs box score every morning for about two weeks until I saw Ernie's name in it again.
00:35:56.239 --> 00:35:58.880
He didn't have much to say to me after that.
00:35:58.880 --> 00:36:02.480
So that's a Jordan-esque story right there.
00:36:02.480 --> 00:36:04.400
And I took that personal.
00:36:04.400 --> 00:36:18.559
He beans Ernie Banks for talking smack, and then he checks the box score every morning in the newspaper for two weeks to make sure Ernie wasn't in it from his beaning in the ribs.
00:36:18.559 --> 00:36:22.800
Everything was personal with the two most competitive guys out there.
00:36:22.800 --> 00:36:24.639
Here's another one.
00:36:24.639 --> 00:36:28.159
Real quick, a rookie hitter, Jim Ray Hart.
00:36:28.159 --> 00:36:29.840
He tells a story in the book.
00:36:29.840 --> 00:36:38.400
He says, It was my first day in the big leagues in 1963, and in the opener of the doubleheader, I had a good game against the Cardinals Bobby Chance.
00:36:38.400 --> 00:36:45.760
Between games, Willie Mays came over and he said to me, Now in the second game, you're gonna go up against Bob Gibson.
00:36:45.760 --> 00:36:50.320
I only half listened to what he was saying, figuring it didn't make much difference.
00:36:50.320 --> 00:36:57.840
So I walked up to the plate the first time and started digging a hole with my back foot to get a firm stance, as I usually did.
00:36:57.840 --> 00:37:05.920
No sooner did I start digging that hole than I hear Willie screaming in the dugout, No! Well, the first pitch came inside.
00:37:05.920 --> 00:37:07.760
No harm done, though.
00:37:07.760 --> 00:37:09.760
So I dug in again.
00:37:09.760 --> 00:37:14.079
The next thing I knew there was a loud crack and my left shoulder was broken.
00:37:14.079 --> 00:37:16.400
I should have listened to Willie.
00:37:16.400 --> 00:37:20.880
So Jim Ray Hart was out for a few weeks with that injury.
00:37:20.880 --> 00:37:30.000
And in the book, in the book, Gibson goes, the umpire, Al Barlick, he didn't say anything when I hit Jim Ray Hart in that second inning.
00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:39.280
He goes, I guess he understood that Hart had in a way hit himself because he was crowding the plate and he dug in.
00:37:39.280 --> 00:37:42.559
And that was a big mistake, and he should have known better.
00:37:42.559 --> 00:37:47.039
So now you might be thinking, right now, this is just over the line.
00:37:47.039 --> 00:37:48.559
That's a mean thing to do.
00:37:48.559 --> 00:37:51.039
You might say, man, okay, that's just too far.
00:37:51.039 --> 00:37:53.039
This guy Gibson was just a big jerk.
00:37:53.039 --> 00:37:54.400
Screw this guy.
00:37:54.400 --> 00:38:01.119
I'd rather root for a great ball player who was always kind to the fans and treated his opponents with more respect than that.
00:38:01.119 --> 00:38:04.400
And there's plenty of successful people who are also kind.
00:38:04.400 --> 00:38:06.800
And that's true.
00:38:06.800 --> 00:38:09.920
But Gibson knows he wouldn't have been one of them.
00:38:09.920 --> 00:38:12.159
This was the key to his success.
00:38:12.159 --> 00:38:14.880
For him, he knows that's a fact.
00:38:14.880 --> 00:38:18.719
You still might be thinking, I just can't get behind this at all.
00:38:18.719 --> 00:38:20.320
Forget this guy, Gibson.
00:38:20.320 --> 00:38:21.840
That's fine.
00:38:21.840 --> 00:38:23.119
It's okay.
00:38:23.119 --> 00:38:24.800
Like Mike says.
00:38:24.800 --> 00:38:29.440
When people hear this, they're gonna say, Well, he wasn't really a nice guy.
00:38:29.440 --> 00:38:30.880
He may have been a tyrant.
00:38:30.880 --> 00:38:32.800
Well, that's you.
00:38:32.800 --> 00:38:35.360
Because you never want anything.