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When I was in like my twenties and thirties, I think the only thing that I could define as enough was money.
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I thought that was gonna make enough better.
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And truthfully, I found out that my definition of enough had changed.
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And it wasn't just about me, it was about the people I was impacting.
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One of our team members shared with me that they bought their dream house.
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I just like, that was so fulfilling to me.
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There's just a sense of satisfaction that I don't think any dollar amount can truly give you, right?
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Do you know that your wants and your dreams actually compete with one another?
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So you want to spend more money, go on lavish vacations, that's gonna compete with your dream of retiring at 60.
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Enough is whatever makes makes you happy.
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Once we acknowledge that, we need to do it with knowledge and intention as opposed to overspending forever, and then now you're working forever.
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Welcome to another episode of Couchside Conversations.
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Today I'm here with Scott Gilmore, who is the CEO of Ascend, one of our tax partners that we work with a lot of clients on.
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But our story began much earlier than that.
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I think we've known each other for over a decade, and I feel like we've kind of like grown in our profession together in so many ways.
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And I wanted to have you on Couchside today because we both get a question from a lot of clients that I think we have an interesting perspective on, which is how much is enough?
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And as we've both grown our businesses and grown our personal lives, you're raising your family.
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I think this question not only is top of mind for the clients we work with, but in many ways is top of mind for us too.
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And so I would love to start by just having you share like how much is enough for you?
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How do you define that and how has that changed over time?
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Well, to your point, it's it's changed over time and how you value it's changed over time.
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I think when you're young enough is really money driven, it's financial, and as you get older, enough looks at quality over quantity, it looks at people interactions, it looks at fulfillment, and money isn't necessarily the focal point of what is enough.
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Yeah, it's such an interesting um perspective to have because when I was in like my 20s and 30s, I think the only thing that I could define as enough was money.
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And when I look at current statistics today, in Southern California, people define enough as a joint family making$100,000 a year.
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I mean, that's that that's a tough salary to live on in Southern California.
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It is.
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I mean, there's probably places in the country where that would would make it work.
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Yeah.
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I think that would be difficult here given the cost of rent and now food and gas and everything else.
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But it does beg the question of let's say that you start making more than$100,000 a year.
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Do you start not seeing money like as the thing that's defining enough?
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I think at some point you get to some type of financial security or some some bar that everyone has a different one.
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You know, there's no different values, different goals, different everything, different family situations.
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And then you start to define enough through through other fulfillment ways.
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Um, and that's been it's it's part of maturity.
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It's kind of like the the plan as you get older, this kind of goes with it.
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Yeah, totally.
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Do you feel like there was a time specifically that you reached that point where you said, Okay, I do feel more financially secure now, so what is my new enough definition?
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You know, for me it was after we went through our merger.
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So as you know, worked for the same company my entire career.
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We spent about 18 years together growing a firm from 12 people to 50, ended up merging into a larger firm, and I thought that was gonna make enough better.
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And truthfully, I found out that my definition of enough had changed.
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And it wasn't just about me, it was about the people I was impacting, both my clients and the staff that I had grown up around.
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And in order to have enough, I had to do something that impacted them, not just me and my family.
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And you made those changes fat fairly quickly.
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You went from small business to big business back to small business where you had to take all of the risk.
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Yeah.
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And with some of your partners too, to actually say, like, it's not about the money that we're making, it's actually about the quality of the business that we're running.
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I just realized that in order to have enough in my own world, I needed to do more than just make a good living, serve my clients.
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I needed to serve the people that helped me get to where I was.
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And I thought the best way to do that was to take those risks on my own and you actually relive what fulfillment looks like to you, and you you reimagine that and it comes back in a different definition once you've had an opportunity to do that on your own.
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Yeah, it's in it's interesting.
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It's not that you built the business, it's that your people built the business.
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And so focusing on them and making sure that they're in a position where they can be fulfilled and thrive, everybody benefits from that.
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I mean, it's like anything, whether it's sports, your family, everything is better as a team.
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There's a lot you can accomplish on your own.
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But when you do it with a team and you're impacting multiple people and you can get exponential growth in families and people's lives, that's fulfillment in ways that can be enough.
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It was so cool the other day, uh, one of our team members shared with me that they bought their dream house that they've been talking about for five years with me and saying, This is my goal, this is my goal, this is my goal.
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And they moved in last week, and I just like that was so fulfilling to me because as part of like uh running more in, I want to see my team members achieve those goals that they've always wanted.
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There's a s a sense of satisfaction that I don't think any dollar amount can truly give you, right?
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We as humans crave interaction, impact.
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That that's why we do what we do, you know, for our clients.
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And being able to do that to to people who you've kind of grown up with from a professional standpoint, it's a it's one of the best feelings I think I've ever had.
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Yeah, I totally agree.
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And there's actually something, I think just on a personal note, fulfilling about making the transition from is money the thing that's enough to where am I spending my time, where am I spending my resources, how am I like present in different areas of my life?
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And I feel like this really changed for me in 2024.
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I had like a series of events happen that were just really hard on me and my family.
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My husband and I lost our first pet, which we don't have kids, and so our dog is like our family, and that was so devastating.
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Followed by this is so bad.
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Like we were driving in the mountain passes and a deer ran in front of us and we hit a deer, and that was so traumatic.
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And then two months later, my husband got hit by a car.
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Like these things all happened, like in threes, because they these things do happen in threes.
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And in that point in my life, I just stepped back and I said, like, what are we what am I doing?
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Like all of these things occurred.
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For some reason, they were all around like death and accidents.
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And how am I spending my time?
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And what do I want my time to be?
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And is it continuing to like climb, climb, climb, climb a ladder, or is it actually figuring out how to maintain some type of um balance, even though I don't love that word, of like where I have time and energy into the things that are most important to me.
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And I remember that being like a very pivotal point for me in just changing my attitude a little bit on where am I putting my time and is it not all about the money anymore?
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I think for everybody as they go through their journey in life, right, there's no one answer, there's no right answer, there is what fits best for you.
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And as you mature, both from a chronological standpoint and from a professional standpoint, it the definition of of what fulfills you, and there's nothing more impactful than an event that happens that kind of gives you that, okay, let's pause, let's let's look at the situation.
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And you can keep grinding, grinding, grinding, and you really don't know what you're missing.
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And when you take a moment to reflect, it's quite healthy to give you an opportunity to make sure you're getting well-rounded, maybe not balanced, but at least well-rounded and giving yourself the opportunity to see other aspects.
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Totally.
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That resonates with me.
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One thing that a lot of our clients struggle with, kind of on this note, and I wanted to specifically ask you as a business owner, is they are trying to invest into creating whatever business it is that they run.
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So it could be creative, it could be mechanical something that they're trying to do.
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And sometimes as a business owner, you don't have enough, even financially.
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You're continually sacrificing, you're reinvesting into the business to make sure it survives, but it also negatively kind of impacts your family.
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How have you thought about that as you've grown in your career?
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I'm sure you've had points in time where you're like, you are sacrificing to make sure this thing in this business is gonna survive.
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And like, how do you find the motivation to keep going?
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I don't think you ever get to that point.
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You you constantly do make the sacrifice as a business owner.
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Um I I think as you go through the the journey of building the business, it almost becomes your baby.
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Yeah.
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And it it's it's part of who you are.
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And for a lot of people, it becomes part of their identity.
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Yeah.
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And so you keep giving back to the business and giving back to the business because it means something to you.
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But you have to have a balance.
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We hate that word, but between short-term thinking and long-term thinking.
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Because on the short term, you're gonna keep going, keep building the business, keep it afloat.
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But in the longer term, you have to make sure the end game is what you want it to be, right?
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The world's moving fast around us, things are changing in so many different facets.
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We all talk about technology a lot, but there's a lot more to it.
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And you have to constantly reevaluate, is this the best use of my time?
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Is my short-term decisions in alignment with my long-term decisions?
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And just having, again, sorry, balance between those decisions so that you don't get stuck and then one day you wake up and say, Oh my god, all of this is behind me, and I still don't have enough.
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What you needed.
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It's interesting though, because it I think sometimes what happens is in the world we live in today, we're so um like influenced by wanting like immediate satisfaction from things.
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We want that immediacy, and like a lot of times, especially as a business owner, there is a long period of time, meaning years, to like grow something to be what it is for you and what you want it to be.
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And I think you've probably gotten close to there at a send, although I know you and you're probably always growing and changing and wanting something new and better.
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That's like natural to who you are.
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Um but you know, there's a I I think that's something to note is that it just takes a long time and you just gotta be resilient and keep going.
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And I know that's been your experience too.
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Yeah.
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Um my the the goals change and the priorities change.
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And for oft for a lot of time it was the goal of building this company and making that impact on the people that we've talked about.
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And as it's become more stabilized, I'll call it, and and mature as a company, my shift, my focus has shifted back to my family.
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Yeah.
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Because they're the ones that truly sacrificed.
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Granted, as we're building, we all share in the rewards of that from a financial purpose, but my presence, my time, my energy, it was going to other places.
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And so I I've really tried to be cognizant of making that shift back and kind of bringing it back into harmony and trying to keep my family at the same place that I keep my clients and my team.
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Do you feel like going through the process yourself of understanding your financial situation, where you're going, actually seeing the visual of projections allowed you to have a little bit of that freedom.
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So it wasn't just continuing to grind, but no, actually, I see you see where I'm going.
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I'll have one word for it.
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It was a game changer.
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To to honestly, in as an accountant, as a numbers guy, like having a plan is is pivotal to me.
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To be able to sit there and look at here's the plan, and if you do these things, here is where you'll be, it gives you the motivation, the comfort to keep going, to stay on that track and understand that oh, at this point, maybe I can reshift and refocus things to build more well-being and well and well-roundedness in in what we're doing.
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It the sense of peace that that gave me, I'll never forget.
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I got on the phone with one of my coaches and I said, Look, I'm in a good place today, and here's why.
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And I'll never forget it.
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It's one of those memories that just always stays in the forefront.
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That's so great.
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So sometimes we're afraid of seeing these visuals and numbers.
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I've had a lot of clients say, like, Oh, I don't want the reality of my budget, or I don't want the reality of what the financial picture looks like.
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But there's so much freedom when you know, because then you can make different decisions.
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And you might have continued to grind, not like, but not needing to, if you didn't have that knowledge.
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I might have made the same or different decisions.
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But even if I made the same decision, the happiness I did it with, the peace I did it with, just the mental freedom that I did it with, it we all go through our journey in in a search of some type of happiness, right?
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Whatever that definition is for you, it's a lot easier when you don't have the weight on your shoulders and like, ah, okay, I'm I I'm gonna get this done.
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I'm okay.
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I know I'm okay, yeah.
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Um, one other question that uh some clients ask is just balancing the risk between starting their own business and knowing that it might take years to actually make it, or taking a big paycheck at a corporate company or a big company to just have that guaranteed income and know that they're gonna be okay, but they don't have any opportunity to be entrepreneurial in that.
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How would you advise somebody who's like trying to balance these two things of like, do I want to be an entrepreneur and own it, or do I want to be with a big company and take that paycheck?
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I think first there there's no right answer here again.
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Um it it's some personality traits are innate, and there are people that are just born to be entrepreneurs.
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It's how they're wired, it's the only way that they're gonna achieve success that for themselves, enough fulfillment, happiness for themselves.
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Other people are risk adverse.
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Yeah.
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And they'll take the paycheck, and it makes sense, you can live a good life, and they don't need the additional risk to feel fulfilled, to feel like they have enough.
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And it's really you really have to get in touch with you know who you are and what's important to you.
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And for some people, you may go back and forth.
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And for a lot of people that go the entrepreneur route, they'll exit and they'll be right back in it before you know it because they're craving more.
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Yeah, and they want to control their future, they want the destiny.
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It doesn't feel good to work under somebody else, it feels good to like be the maker of the thing that you want to achieve.
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And I think it's really important actually to know that about them yourself.
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I went through this exercise with a client recently where we had them list every single value they had spending time with family, um, maybe intellectual values that they had, uh, where they wanted to live values, who their friends were, and we put those on a piece of paper, and then we looked at the decisions they have ahead of them in the next year, and we basically matched them to the values.
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And what was really fascinating about it is about 50% of the decisions that they were making did not align with their values because they were making it for the money, not for the values.
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And the money wasn't necessary actually in their financial plan.
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So it was it was a fascinating exercise to sit back and ask yourself the question of like, Am I doing this for the right reasons?
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And do those reasons align with what I really want out of my life?
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And a lot of times emotion is the driver here, right?
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And sometimes going through the plan and looking at it, listing the values, showing the connection between the two, it gives you the clarity that emotion can oftentimes cloud.
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Yeah.
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And so that's the value of having advisors and talking to people and making sure that you don't allow yourself to get off the track when it's lines up, you're ultimately going to get to a better place.
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You're gonna be happier.
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Yeah, I totally, I totally agree.
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It they've been happier since they figured that out and have made different decisions since then.
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So that's been really fulfilling.
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One other thing that clients struggle with sometimes is just living in a community where there is a lot of wealth.
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Yeah.
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And you get these temptations to keep up with the Joneses, and all of a sudden you've defined enough not as what you want and you need, but what your neighbor has.
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Yeah.
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Um, how do you resist that temptation and like what advice would you give for that?
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One of the most difficult things to be honest, because you can't control what other folks are doing, but it is it is your reality and you see it every day.
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I I try to have people understand different strokes for different folks and know what it is you are trying to accomplish.
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For example, for me personally, freedom of choice, freedom of time are are my are the things that I'm after.
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And if I'm trying to keep up with other folks, I'm actually working backwards from that goal.
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Because ultimately, everyone has a number, everyone has an idea of what that looks like, and if you can get to it sooner, you can make the choices you want to sooner.
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But that means making sacrifices today and not really keeping up the way you want to.
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Or on the flip side, you keep up, you're gonna keep grinding a little bit longer.
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Yeah.
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So it's it's a balance, it's understanding what you're after, and really just keeping your eye on the ultimate goal.
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If if if your goal is to have great things, enjoy your life right now, nothing wrong with that.
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But there's going to be something on the other side of that, or a decision that's gonna need to be made, or a sacrifice at some point in time.
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Yeah, I I um sometimes do some work for nonprofits, and one of the questions I ask in my sessions with one-on-one with people is uh, do you know that your wants and your dreams actually compete with one another?
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So you want to spend more money, go on lavish vacations, that's gonna compete with your dream of retiring at 60.
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If you back off that a little bit, that want, you may be able to retire at 60.
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Sometimes I think we forget that our like wants are actually competing with our long-term dreams, and vice versa.
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And once we acknowledge that, it's not that one thing's wrong or the other, it's just that we need to do it with knowledge and intention as opposed to overspending forever, and then now you're working forever.
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You want to get in front of it before it's truly a problem you can't do anything about or it's punitive, more difficult than it needs to be.
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But yeah, I mean there are different decisions that you're going to make and they may change actually.
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They may evolve as as your life evolves, you get older, your family gets older, you have kids.
00:18:29.200 --> 00:18:32.160
Those decisions kind of move with what's around you.
00:18:32.400 --> 00:18:32.880
It's true.
00:18:33.279 --> 00:18:34.640
Alright, one last question for you.
00:18:34.799 --> 00:18:39.759
If you were just to like simply define what is enough, how would you define that?
00:18:40.319 --> 00:18:41.839
Living my happiest life.
00:18:42.079 --> 00:18:45.119
You know, uh enough is whatever makes makes you happy.
00:18:45.200 --> 00:18:47.359
That's the ultimate point of being.
00:18:47.680 --> 00:18:47.920
Yeah.
00:18:48.160 --> 00:18:50.880
Define it as happiness, not necessarily a number.
00:18:51.599 --> 00:18:56.400
I know a lot of people have a really big number and maybe not necessarily the happiness they thought it would come with it.
00:18:56.640 --> 00:18:59.440
Yep, those are trade-offs and you gotta be aware of them, right?
00:18:59.680 --> 00:19:00.000
That's right.
00:19:00.240 --> 00:19:00.559
All right.
00:19:00.640 --> 00:19:07.440
Well, we're gonna play a game called this or that now where we're gonna ask each other questions and we just we gotta choose one or the other.
00:19:07.599 --> 00:19:09.440
There's no there's no both as the answer.
00:19:09.759 --> 00:19:10.240
Sound good?
00:19:10.480 --> 00:19:11.519
Sounds like a plan.
00:19:15.920 --> 00:19:18.160
All right, so first question for you.
00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:26.000
Would you rather work 40 hours a week longer or 60 hours a week but retire earlier?
00:19:26.480 --> 00:19:28.079
60 hours and retire earlier.
00:19:28.319 --> 00:19:28.640
Yeah.
00:19:28.960 --> 00:19:31.279
I'm I probably have done that in my life.
00:19:31.440 --> 00:19:32.799
So I probably continue doing that.
00:19:33.119 --> 00:19:35.920
So big title or flexible lifestyle?
00:19:37.599 --> 00:19:40.720
I don't know if I can get to a flexible lifestyle without a big title.
00:19:40.799 --> 00:19:44.240
Even though I know that sounds a little bit egotistical, I think I have to choose it.
00:19:44.559 --> 00:19:44.880
Okay.
00:19:45.839 --> 00:19:46.720
Next question.
00:19:46.880 --> 00:19:48.400
Did you did you want to comment on it?
00:19:48.640 --> 00:19:51.119
I say titles don't necessarily get you which you want to go.
00:19:51.519 --> 00:19:52.079
That's probably true.
00:19:53.839 --> 00:19:56.000
Um Okay, next question for you.
00:19:56.240 --> 00:20:02.160
Would you rather climb faster or go slow and steady with more life balance?
00:20:02.559 --> 00:20:03.599
Oh, climb faster.
00:20:04.319 --> 00:20:04.400
Yeah.
00:20:04.720 --> 00:20:06.160
It would be kind of boring otherwise, right?
00:20:06.480 --> 00:20:07.279
We've gotta have the challenge.
00:20:07.440 --> 00:20:11.279
I know slow and steady wins the race, but it's too slow.
00:20:12.400 --> 00:20:15.519
Uh spend your money now or save aggressively.
00:20:18.240 --> 00:20:20.960
I I think I told you earlier that that we couldn't say both.
00:20:21.200 --> 00:20:21.680
This is the same.
00:20:21.839 --> 00:20:24.319
And I feel like I'm gonna cheat on this one.
00:20:24.480 --> 00:20:32.079
Um I think probably save aggressively, because then that leads to more flexibility to do what you want.
00:20:32.640 --> 00:20:33.359
I totally concur.
00:20:33.519 --> 00:20:35.119
And this is a really personal choice.
00:20:35.279 --> 00:20:37.519
I think if you pull 10 people, you get five and five.
00:20:37.920 --> 00:20:39.680
Totally, totally different answers for that.
00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:40.960
Well, thank you so much.
00:20:41.119 --> 00:20:42.000
This has been wonderful.
00:20:42.160 --> 00:20:47.839
I appreciate you sharing your insight and kind of the the story behind the story of how you got to where you are today.
00:20:48.160 --> 00:20:50.720
Please tune in for future couch eye conversations.
00:20:50.960 --> 00:20:51.839
Thank you for being here.
00:20:52.160 --> 00:20:52.559
Wow.
00:00:00.239 --> 00:00:06.639
When I was in like my twenties and thirties, I think the only thing that I could define as enough was money.
00:00:06.879 --> 00:00:09.359
I thought that was gonna make enough better.
00:00:09.519 --> 00:00:12.560
And truthfully, I found out that my definition of enough had changed.
00:00:12.640 --> 00:00:15.439
And it wasn't just about me, it was about the people I was impacting.
00:00:15.599 --> 00:00:18.879
One of our team members shared with me that they bought their dream house.
00:00:18.960 --> 00:00:21.440
I just like, that was so fulfilling to me.
00:00:21.679 --> 00:00:26.399
There's just a sense of satisfaction that I don't think any dollar amount can truly give you, right?
00:00:26.640 --> 00:00:29.839
Do you know that your wants and your dreams actually compete with one another?
00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:36.640
So you want to spend more money, go on lavish vacations, that's gonna compete with your dream of retiring at 60.
00:00:36.960 --> 00:00:38.880
Enough is whatever makes makes you happy.
00:00:39.200 --> 00:00:48.799
Once we acknowledge that, we need to do it with knowledge and intention as opposed to overspending forever, and then now you're working forever.
00:00:56.159 --> 00:00:58.560
Welcome to another episode of Couchside Conversations.
00:00:58.640 --> 00:01:05.200
Today I'm here with Scott Gilmore, who is the CEO of Ascend, one of our tax partners that we work with a lot of clients on.
00:01:05.359 --> 00:01:08.319
But our story began much earlier than that.
00:01:08.480 --> 00:01:15.760
I think we've known each other for over a decade, and I feel like we've kind of like grown in our profession together in so many ways.
00:01:15.920 --> 00:01:26.719
And I wanted to have you on Couchside today because we both get a question from a lot of clients that I think we have an interesting perspective on, which is how much is enough?
00:01:26.879 --> 00:01:31.680
And as we've both grown our businesses and grown our personal lives, you're raising your family.
00:01:31.920 --> 00:01:36.799
I think this question not only is top of mind for the clients we work with, but in many ways is top of mind for us too.
00:01:36.879 --> 00:01:42.319
And so I would love to start by just having you share like how much is enough for you?
00:01:42.400 --> 00:01:45.519
How do you define that and how has that changed over time?
00:01:45.840 --> 00:01:50.079
Well, to your point, it's it's changed over time and how you value it's changed over time.
00:01:50.319 --> 00:02:03.920
I think when you're young enough is really money driven, it's financial, and as you get older, enough looks at quality over quantity, it looks at people interactions, it looks at fulfillment, and money isn't necessarily the focal point of what is enough.
00:02:04.239 --> 00:02:14.080
Yeah, it's such an interesting um perspective to have because when I was in like my 20s and 30s, I think the only thing that I could define as enough was money.
00:02:14.240 --> 00:02:23.599
And when I look at current statistics today, in Southern California, people define enough as a joint family making$100,000 a year.
00:02:24.400 --> 00:02:28.719
I mean, that's that that's a tough salary to live on in Southern California.
00:02:29.280 --> 00:02:29.439
It is.
00:02:30.000 --> 00:02:33.599
I mean, there's probably places in the country where that would would make it work.
00:02:33.840 --> 00:02:34.000
Yeah.
00:02:34.240 --> 00:02:39.439
I think that would be difficult here given the cost of rent and now food and gas and everything else.
00:02:39.759 --> 00:02:44.560
But it does beg the question of let's say that you start making more than$100,000 a year.
00:02:45.120 --> 00:02:50.240
Do you start not seeing money like as the thing that's defining enough?
00:02:50.639 --> 00:02:57.759
I think at some point you get to some type of financial security or some some bar that everyone has a different one.
00:02:58.000 --> 00:03:02.639
You know, there's no different values, different goals, different everything, different family situations.
00:03:02.800 --> 00:03:06.879
And then you start to define enough through through other fulfillment ways.
00:03:06.960 --> 00:03:09.120
Um, and that's been it's it's part of maturity.
00:03:09.280 --> 00:03:12.960
It's kind of like the the plan as you get older, this kind of goes with it.
00:03:13.199 --> 00:03:14.000
Yeah, totally.
00:03:14.240 --> 00:03:24.159
Do you feel like there was a time specifically that you reached that point where you said, Okay, I do feel more financially secure now, so what is my new enough definition?
00:03:24.479 --> 00:03:27.919
You know, for me it was after we went through our merger.
00:03:28.000 --> 00:03:31.360
So as you know, worked for the same company my entire career.
00:03:31.520 --> 00:03:41.199
We spent about 18 years together growing a firm from 12 people to 50, ended up merging into a larger firm, and I thought that was gonna make enough better.
00:03:41.439 --> 00:03:44.560
And truthfully, I found out that my definition of enough had changed.
00:03:44.639 --> 00:03:51.360
And it wasn't just about me, it was about the people I was impacting, both my clients and the staff that I had grown up around.
00:03:51.680 --> 00:03:56.719
And in order to have enough, I had to do something that impacted them, not just me and my family.
00:03:57.360 --> 00:03:59.599
And you made those changes fat fairly quickly.
00:03:59.680 --> 00:04:06.080
You went from small business to big business back to small business where you had to take all of the risk.
00:04:06.319 --> 00:04:06.479
Yeah.
00:04:06.639 --> 00:04:14.400
And with some of your partners too, to actually say, like, it's not about the money that we're making, it's actually about the quality of the business that we're running.
00:04:14.800 --> 00:04:22.480
I just realized that in order to have enough in my own world, I needed to do more than just make a good living, serve my clients.
00:04:22.639 --> 00:04:26.079
I needed to serve the people that helped me get to where I was.
00:04:26.480 --> 00:04:41.519
And I thought the best way to do that was to take those risks on my own and you actually relive what fulfillment looks like to you, and you you reimagine that and it comes back in a different definition once you've had an opportunity to do that on your own.
00:04:41.759 --> 00:04:43.279
Yeah, it's in it's interesting.
00:04:43.360 --> 00:04:46.240
It's not that you built the business, it's that your people built the business.
00:04:46.319 --> 00:04:54.879
And so focusing on them and making sure that they're in a position where they can be fulfilled and thrive, everybody benefits from that.
00:04:55.279 --> 00:04:59.600
I mean, it's like anything, whether it's sports, your family, everything is better as a team.
00:04:59.920 --> 00:05:01.680
There's a lot you can accomplish on your own.
00:05:01.920 --> 00:05:12.160
But when you do it with a team and you're impacting multiple people and you can get exponential growth in families and people's lives, that's fulfillment in ways that can be enough.
00:05:12.720 --> 00:05:22.800
It was so cool the other day, uh, one of our team members shared with me that they bought their dream house that they've been talking about for five years with me and saying, This is my goal, this is my goal, this is my goal.
00:05:22.959 --> 00:05:33.519
And they moved in last week, and I just like that was so fulfilling to me because as part of like uh running more in, I want to see my team members achieve those goals that they've always wanted.
00:05:33.839 --> 00:05:38.879
There's a s a sense of satisfaction that I don't think any dollar amount can truly give you, right?
00:05:40.079 --> 00:05:42.879
We as humans crave interaction, impact.
00:05:43.040 --> 00:05:46.079
That that's why we do what we do, you know, for our clients.
00:05:46.560 --> 00:05:55.920
And being able to do that to to people who you've kind of grown up with from a professional standpoint, it's a it's one of the best feelings I think I've ever had.
00:05:56.160 --> 00:05:57.279
Yeah, I totally agree.
00:05:57.519 --> 00:06:10.560
And there's actually something, I think just on a personal note, fulfilling about making the transition from is money the thing that's enough to where am I spending my time, where am I spending my resources, how am I like present in different areas of my life?
00:06:10.720 --> 00:06:14.000
And I feel like this really changed for me in 2024.
00:06:14.160 --> 00:06:19.040
I had like a series of events happen that were just really hard on me and my family.
00:06:19.199 --> 00:06:25.360
My husband and I lost our first pet, which we don't have kids, and so our dog is like our family, and that was so devastating.
00:06:25.519 --> 00:06:27.120
Followed by this is so bad.
00:06:27.199 --> 00:06:32.800
Like we were driving in the mountain passes and a deer ran in front of us and we hit a deer, and that was so traumatic.
00:06:32.879 --> 00:06:35.439
And then two months later, my husband got hit by a car.
00:06:35.600 --> 00:06:39.839
Like these things all happened, like in threes, because they these things do happen in threes.
00:06:40.560 --> 00:06:45.920
And in that point in my life, I just stepped back and I said, like, what are we what am I doing?
00:06:46.079 --> 00:06:48.560
Like all of these things occurred.
00:06:48.879 --> 00:06:52.800
For some reason, they were all around like death and accidents.
00:06:53.199 --> 00:06:55.120
And how am I spending my time?
00:06:55.199 --> 00:06:56.879
And what do I want my time to be?
00:06:56.959 --> 00:07:11.279
And is it continuing to like climb, climb, climb, climb a ladder, or is it actually figuring out how to maintain some type of um balance, even though I don't love that word, of like where I have time and energy into the things that are most important to me.
00:07:11.360 --> 00:07:20.879
And I remember that being like a very pivotal point for me in just changing my attitude a little bit on where am I putting my time and is it not all about the money anymore?
00:07:21.279 --> 00:07:28.000
I think for everybody as they go through their journey in life, right, there's no one answer, there's no right answer, there is what fits best for you.
00:07:28.639 --> 00:07:45.519
And as you mature, both from a chronological standpoint and from a professional standpoint, it the definition of of what fulfills you, and there's nothing more impactful than an event that happens that kind of gives you that, okay, let's pause, let's let's look at the situation.
00:07:45.680 --> 00:07:50.800
And you can keep grinding, grinding, grinding, and you really don't know what you're missing.
00:07:50.879 --> 00:08:02.800
And when you take a moment to reflect, it's quite healthy to give you an opportunity to make sure you're getting well-rounded, maybe not balanced, but at least well-rounded and giving yourself the opportunity to see other aspects.
00:08:03.120 --> 00:08:03.439
Totally.
00:08:03.519 --> 00:08:04.720
That resonates with me.
00:08:04.959 --> 00:08:15.279
One thing that a lot of our clients struggle with, kind of on this note, and I wanted to specifically ask you as a business owner, is they are trying to invest into creating whatever business it is that they run.
00:08:15.519 --> 00:08:19.920
So it could be creative, it could be mechanical something that they're trying to do.
00:08:20.160 --> 00:08:24.959
And sometimes as a business owner, you don't have enough, even financially.
00:08:25.120 --> 00:08:31.839
You're continually sacrificing, you're reinvesting into the business to make sure it survives, but it also negatively kind of impacts your family.
00:08:32.240 --> 00:08:35.279
How have you thought about that as you've grown in your career?
00:08:35.519 --> 00:08:41.919
I'm sure you've had points in time where you're like, you are sacrificing to make sure this thing in this business is gonna survive.
00:08:42.000 --> 00:08:44.960
And like, how do you find the motivation to keep going?
00:08:45.919 --> 00:08:47.919
I don't think you ever get to that point.
00:08:48.000 --> 00:08:51.919
You you constantly do make the sacrifice as a business owner.
00:08:52.159 --> 00:09:00.399
Um I I think as you go through the the journey of building the business, it almost becomes your baby.
00:09:00.480 --> 00:09:00.720
Yeah.
00:09:00.960 --> 00:09:03.200
And it it's it's part of who you are.
00:09:03.360 --> 00:09:05.440
And for a lot of people, it becomes part of their identity.
00:09:05.519 --> 00:09:05.840
Yeah.
00:09:06.080 --> 00:09:11.200
And so you keep giving back to the business and giving back to the business because it means something to you.
00:09:11.279 --> 00:09:12.720
But you have to have a balance.
00:09:12.879 --> 00:09:16.000
We hate that word, but between short-term thinking and long-term thinking.
00:09:16.399 --> 00:09:20.799
Because on the short term, you're gonna keep going, keep building the business, keep it afloat.
00:09:20.960 --> 00:09:25.759
But in the longer term, you have to make sure the end game is what you want it to be, right?
00:09:26.000 --> 00:09:29.840
The world's moving fast around us, things are changing in so many different facets.
00:09:30.000 --> 00:09:33.440
We all talk about technology a lot, but there's a lot more to it.
00:09:33.679 --> 00:09:37.200
And you have to constantly reevaluate, is this the best use of my time?
00:09:37.279 --> 00:09:41.360
Is my short-term decisions in alignment with my long-term decisions?
00:09:41.519 --> 00:09:53.200
And just having, again, sorry, balance between those decisions so that you don't get stuck and then one day you wake up and say, Oh my god, all of this is behind me, and I still don't have enough.
00:09:53.519 --> 00:09:54.080
What you needed.
00:09:54.480 --> 00:10:03.519
It's interesting though, because it I think sometimes what happens is in the world we live in today, we're so um like influenced by wanting like immediate satisfaction from things.
00:10:03.679 --> 00:10:14.559
We want that immediacy, and like a lot of times, especially as a business owner, there is a long period of time, meaning years, to like grow something to be what it is for you and what you want it to be.
00:10:14.639 --> 00:10:22.080
And I think you've probably gotten close to there at a send, although I know you and you're probably always growing and changing and wanting something new and better.
00:10:22.240 --> 00:10:24.240
That's like natural to who you are.
00:10:24.559 --> 00:10:33.440
Um but you know, there's a I I think that's something to note is that it just takes a long time and you just gotta be resilient and keep going.
00:10:33.519 --> 00:10:35.200
And I know that's been your experience too.
00:10:35.600 --> 00:10:36.000
Yeah.
00:10:36.240 --> 00:10:40.799
Um my the the goals change and the priorities change.
00:10:40.960 --> 00:10:47.679
And for oft for a lot of time it was the goal of building this company and making that impact on the people that we've talked about.
00:10:47.840 --> 00:10:55.279
And as it's become more stabilized, I'll call it, and and mature as a company, my shift, my focus has shifted back to my family.
00:10:55.360 --> 00:10:55.440
Yeah.
00:10:55.600 --> 00:10:57.679
Because they're the ones that truly sacrificed.
00:10:58.399 --> 00:11:07.120
Granted, as we're building, we all share in the rewards of that from a financial purpose, but my presence, my time, my energy, it was going to other places.
00:11:07.519 --> 00:11:20.480
And so I I've really tried to be cognizant of making that shift back and kind of bringing it back into harmony and trying to keep my family at the same place that I keep my clients and my team.
00:11:20.799 --> 00:11:32.080
Do you feel like going through the process yourself of understanding your financial situation, where you're going, actually seeing the visual of projections allowed you to have a little bit of that freedom.
00:11:32.159 --> 00:11:36.720
So it wasn't just continuing to grind, but no, actually, I see you see where I'm going.
00:11:36.960 --> 00:11:38.240
I'll have one word for it.
00:11:38.320 --> 00:11:39.120
It was a game changer.
00:11:39.440 --> 00:11:45.360
To to honestly, in as an accountant, as a numbers guy, like having a plan is is pivotal to me.
00:11:45.679 --> 00:12:05.360
To be able to sit there and look at here's the plan, and if you do these things, here is where you'll be, it gives you the motivation, the comfort to keep going, to stay on that track and understand that oh, at this point, maybe I can reshift and refocus things to build more well-being and well and well-roundedness in in what we're doing.
00:12:05.919 --> 00:12:09.360
It the sense of peace that that gave me, I'll never forget.
00:12:09.440 --> 00:12:14.799
I got on the phone with one of my coaches and I said, Look, I'm in a good place today, and here's why.
00:12:14.960 --> 00:12:16.320
And I'll never forget it.
00:12:16.559 --> 00:12:19.600
It's one of those memories that just always stays in the forefront.
00:12:19.840 --> 00:12:20.480
That's so great.
00:12:20.559 --> 00:12:23.759
So sometimes we're afraid of seeing these visuals and numbers.
00:12:23.840 --> 00:12:29.440
I've had a lot of clients say, like, Oh, I don't want the reality of my budget, or I don't want the reality of what the financial picture looks like.
00:12:29.600 --> 00:12:33.120
But there's so much freedom when you know, because then you can make different decisions.
00:12:33.200 --> 00:12:40.000
And you might have continued to grind, not like, but not needing to, if you didn't have that knowledge.
00:12:40.320 --> 00:12:42.320
I might have made the same or different decisions.
00:12:42.399 --> 00:12:56.320
But even if I made the same decision, the happiness I did it with, the peace I did it with, just the mental freedom that I did it with, it we all go through our journey in in a search of some type of happiness, right?
00:12:56.399 --> 00:13:06.080
Whatever that definition is for you, it's a lot easier when you don't have the weight on your shoulders and like, ah, okay, I'm I I'm gonna get this done.
00:13:06.399 --> 00:13:06.799
I'm okay.
00:13:06.960 --> 00:13:08.159
I know I'm okay, yeah.
00:13:08.399 --> 00:13:30.240
Um, one other question that uh some clients ask is just balancing the risk between starting their own business and knowing that it might take years to actually make it, or taking a big paycheck at a corporate company or a big company to just have that guaranteed income and know that they're gonna be okay, but they don't have any opportunity to be entrepreneurial in that.
00:13:30.399 --> 00:13:39.120
How would you advise somebody who's like trying to balance these two things of like, do I want to be an entrepreneur and own it, or do I want to be with a big company and take that paycheck?
00:13:39.440 --> 00:13:41.759
I think first there there's no right answer here again.
00:13:41.840 --> 00:13:48.240
Um it it's some personality traits are innate, and there are people that are just born to be entrepreneurs.
00:13:48.399 --> 00:13:56.080
It's how they're wired, it's the only way that they're gonna achieve success that for themselves, enough fulfillment, happiness for themselves.
00:13:56.320 --> 00:13:57.759
Other people are risk adverse.
00:13:57.840 --> 00:13:57.919
Yeah.
00:13:58.080 --> 00:14:06.240
And they'll take the paycheck, and it makes sense, you can live a good life, and they don't need the additional risk to feel fulfilled, to feel like they have enough.
00:14:06.720 --> 00:14:12.000
And it's really you really have to get in touch with you know who you are and what's important to you.
00:14:12.159 --> 00:14:14.720
And for some people, you may go back and forth.
00:14:15.039 --> 00:14:21.600
And for a lot of people that go the entrepreneur route, they'll exit and they'll be right back in it before you know it because they're craving more.
00:14:21.840 --> 00:14:24.399
Yeah, and they want to control their future, they want the destiny.
00:14:24.480 --> 00:14:30.000
It doesn't feel good to work under somebody else, it feels good to like be the maker of the thing that you want to achieve.
00:14:30.159 --> 00:14:33.519
And I think it's really important actually to know that about them yourself.
00:14:33.679 --> 00:14:57.039
I went through this exercise with a client recently where we had them list every single value they had spending time with family, um, maybe intellectual values that they had, uh, where they wanted to live values, who their friends were, and we put those on a piece of paper, and then we looked at the decisions they have ahead of them in the next year, and we basically matched them to the values.
00:14:57.200 --> 00:15:06.720
And what was really fascinating about it is about 50% of the decisions that they were making did not align with their values because they were making it for the money, not for the values.
00:15:07.120 --> 00:15:10.399
And the money wasn't necessary actually in their financial plan.
00:15:10.480 --> 00:15:17.679
So it was it was a fascinating exercise to sit back and ask yourself the question of like, Am I doing this for the right reasons?
00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:22.000
And do those reasons align with what I really want out of my life?
00:15:22.320 --> 00:15:24.960
And a lot of times emotion is the driver here, right?
00:15:25.120 --> 00:15:36.080
And sometimes going through the plan and looking at it, listing the values, showing the connection between the two, it gives you the clarity that emotion can oftentimes cloud.
00:15:36.159 --> 00:15:36.399
Yeah.
00:15:36.639 --> 00:15:47.840
And so that's the value of having advisors and talking to people and making sure that you don't allow yourself to get off the track when it's lines up, you're ultimately going to get to a better place.
00:15:47.919 --> 00:15:48.639
You're gonna be happier.
00:15:48.879 --> 00:15:50.480
Yeah, I totally, I totally agree.
00:15:50.639 --> 00:15:55.360
It they've been happier since they figured that out and have made different decisions since then.
00:15:55.440 --> 00:15:57.039
So that's been really fulfilling.
00:15:57.360 --> 00:16:03.200
One other thing that clients struggle with sometimes is just living in a community where there is a lot of wealth.
00:16:03.360 --> 00:16:03.519
Yeah.
00:16:03.679 --> 00:16:12.480
And you get these temptations to keep up with the Joneses, and all of a sudden you've defined enough not as what you want and you need, but what your neighbor has.
00:16:12.879 --> 00:16:13.120
Yeah.
00:16:13.279 --> 00:16:16.799
Um, how do you resist that temptation and like what advice would you give for that?
00:16:17.120 --> 00:16:24.960
One of the most difficult things to be honest, because you can't control what other folks are doing, but it is it is your reality and you see it every day.
00:16:25.200 --> 00:16:34.080
I I try to have people understand different strokes for different folks and know what it is you are trying to accomplish.
00:16:34.320 --> 00:16:43.600
For example, for me personally, freedom of choice, freedom of time are are my are the things that I'm after.
00:16:43.840 --> 00:16:48.639
And if I'm trying to keep up with other folks, I'm actually working backwards from that goal.
00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:58.399
Because ultimately, everyone has a number, everyone has an idea of what that looks like, and if you can get to it sooner, you can make the choices you want to sooner.
00:16:58.480 --> 00:17:03.200
But that means making sacrifices today and not really keeping up the way you want to.
00:17:03.360 --> 00:17:07.599
Or on the flip side, you keep up, you're gonna keep grinding a little bit longer.
00:17:07.759 --> 00:17:08.319
Yeah.
00:17:08.559 --> 00:17:13.920
So it's it's a balance, it's understanding what you're after, and really just keeping your eye on the ultimate goal.
00:17:14.079 --> 00:17:18.400
If if if your goal is to have great things, enjoy your life right now, nothing wrong with that.
00:17:18.880 --> 00:17:24.720
But there's going to be something on the other side of that, or a decision that's gonna need to be made, or a sacrifice at some point in time.
00:17:25.039 --> 00:17:37.359
Yeah, I I um sometimes do some work for nonprofits, and one of the questions I ask in my sessions with one-on-one with people is uh, do you know that your wants and your dreams actually compete with one another?
00:17:37.519 --> 00:17:44.720
So you want to spend more money, go on lavish vacations, that's gonna compete with your dream of retiring at 60.
00:17:44.960 --> 00:17:50.079
If you back off that a little bit, that want, you may be able to retire at 60.
00:17:50.240 --> 00:17:56.000
Sometimes I think we forget that our like wants are actually competing with our long-term dreams, and vice versa.
00:17:56.160 --> 00:18:08.240
And once we acknowledge that, it's not that one thing's wrong or the other, it's just that we need to do it with knowledge and intention as opposed to overspending forever, and then now you're working forever.
00:18:08.799 --> 00:18:16.319
You want to get in front of it before it's truly a problem you can't do anything about or it's punitive, more difficult than it needs to be.
00:18:16.559 --> 00:18:22.079
But yeah, I mean there are different decisions that you're going to make and they may change actually.
00:18:22.319 --> 00:18:28.640
They may evolve as as your life evolves, you get older, your family gets older, you have kids.
00:18:29.200 --> 00:18:32.160
Those decisions kind of move with what's around you.
00:18:32.400 --> 00:18:32.880
It's true.
00:18:33.279 --> 00:18:34.640
Alright, one last question for you.
00:18:34.799 --> 00:18:39.759
If you were just to like simply define what is enough, how would you define that?
00:18:40.319 --> 00:18:41.839
Living my happiest life.
00:18:42.079 --> 00:18:45.119
You know, uh enough is whatever makes makes you happy.
00:18:45.200 --> 00:18:47.359
That's the ultimate point of being.
00:18:47.680 --> 00:18:47.920
Yeah.
00:18:48.160 --> 00:18:50.880
Define it as happiness, not necessarily a number.
00:18:51.599 --> 00:18:56.400
I know a lot of people have a really big number and maybe not necessarily the happiness they thought it would come with it.
00:18:56.640 --> 00:18:59.440
Yep, those are trade-offs and you gotta be aware of them, right?
00:18:59.680 --> 00:19:00.000
That's right.
00:19:00.240 --> 00:19:00.559
All right.
00:19:00.640 --> 00:19:07.440
Well, we're gonna play a game called this or that now where we're gonna ask each other questions and we just we gotta choose one or the other.
00:19:07.599 --> 00:19:09.440
There's no there's no both as the answer.
00:19:09.759 --> 00:19:10.240
Sound good?
00:19:10.480 --> 00:19:11.519
Sounds like a plan.
00:19:15.920 --> 00:19:18.160
All right, so first question for you.
00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:26.000
Would you rather work 40 hours a week longer or 60 hours a week but retire earlier?
00:19:26.480 --> 00:19:28.079
60 hours and retire earlier.
00:19:28.319 --> 00:19:28.640
Yeah.
00:19:28.960 --> 00:19:31.279
I'm I probably have done that in my life.
00:19:31.440 --> 00:19:32.799
So I probably continue doing that.
00:19:33.119 --> 00:19:35.920
So big title or flexible lifestyle?
00:19:37.599 --> 00:19:40.720
I don't know if I can get to a flexible lifestyle without a big title.
00:19:40.799 --> 00:19:44.240
Even though I know that sounds a little bit egotistical, I think I have to choose it.
00:19:44.559 --> 00:19:44.880
Okay.
00:19:45.839 --> 00:19:46.720
Next question.
00:19:46.880 --> 00:19:48.400
Did you did you want to comment on it?
00:19:48.640 --> 00:19:51.119
I say titles don't necessarily get you which you want to go.
00:19:51.519 --> 00:19:52.079
That's probably true.
00:19:53.839 --> 00:19:56.000
Um Okay, next question for you.
00:19:56.240 --> 00:20:02.160
Would you rather climb faster or go slow and steady with more life balance?
00:20:02.559 --> 00:20:03.599
Oh, climb faster.
00:20:04.319 --> 00:20:04.400
Yeah.
00:20:04.720 --> 00:20:06.160
It would be kind of boring otherwise, right?
00:20:06.480 --> 00:20:07.279
We've gotta have the challenge.
00:20:07.440 --> 00:20:11.279
I know slow and steady wins the race, but it's too slow.
00:20:12.400 --> 00:20:15.519
Uh spend your money now or save aggressively.
00:20:18.240 --> 00:20:20.960
I I think I told you earlier that that we couldn't say both.
00:20:21.200 --> 00:20:21.680
This is the same.
00:20:21.839 --> 00:20:24.319
And I feel like I'm gonna cheat on this one.
00:20:24.480 --> 00:20:32.079
Um I think probably save aggressively, because then that leads to more flexibility to do what you want.
00:20:32.640 --> 00:20:33.359
I totally concur.
00:20:33.519 --> 00:20:35.119
And this is a really personal choice.
00:20:35.279 --> 00:20:37.519
I think if you pull 10 people, you get five and five.
00:20:37.920 --> 00:20:39.680
Totally, totally different answers for that.
00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:40.960
Well, thank you so much.
00:20:41.119 --> 00:20:42.000
This has been wonderful.
00:20:42.160 --> 00:20:47.839
I appreciate you sharing your insight and kind of the the story behind the story of how you got to where you are today.
00:20:48.160 --> 00:20:50.720
Please tune in for future couch eye conversations.
00:20:50.960 --> 00:20:51.839
Thank you for being here.
00:20:52.160 --> 00:20:52.559
Wow.
