Mark Patterson: What's good everybody? I'm so glad we're here for another week, another round of the Convo Room podcast. I am super excited about our guest today. Kree Moore is a Philly native. He's a husband, marathoner, copywriter, cocktail enthusiast, and mixologist. He's the creator of Cocktails and More, and you can catch him in his recurring series, Men Belong in the Kitchen on Instagram, with his co-star I'm sure he'll tell us all about as we dive into his creative journey. Kree, welcome to the Conval Room Podcast.
Cree: appreciate it Mark, thanks man, appreciate being here.
Mark Patterson: Yes sir, mean man, you've got an engineering degree, you've been working as a project manager, and then you decide, hey, I need a creative outlet, I wanna start writing. Talk us through what got you into this journey to become a creator.
Cree: That's a deep one and I'll try to, I'll give it the shorter but still version that matters the most. So yeah, I to school for construction management and Temple University was in the School of Engineering. actually through my paternity, I'm a member of Phi Alpha Paternity Incorporated. We hosted events and held programs and. There's so many different outlets, community services, things like that. And one of my fraternity brothers, is obviously one of my best friends, we had a working relationship of hosting events for a while. And at one point, I remember he said to me, he asked my opinion on something when were working. was, and module, he was an engineer as well. He was like, hey, you know, I'm gonna leave that to you. You're the creative. And I was almost assaulted, won't lie to you. I was like, the creative, what do you mean? What do you mean by that? Like, I didn't have a... positive connotation to it. And as time went on, this is before I met my wife and everything, but then when I got married. as I was still working in the project management space for a construction company, I realized that I did like hosting events. I liked creating things. I liked working on recipes. I loved cooking. I loved things that I can just really let my creative juices flow. And my wife really helped steer me in a direction that she kind of backed what he said all those years ago. Like, well, you are creative, baby. You do these type of things. And then it came to a point where, you know, though was I was happy in my career because it gave me so much and I learned so much what I was doing. I said, hey, I think I kind of want to take a switch. And then from there, you know, with the help of some friends, my wife, a few programs that I did, I was able to make a good switch to advertising as a copywriter. And that was like a whole journey in itself. But then that's kind of the shorter version.
Mark Patterson: That is so dope. So you didn't grow up thinking like, ⁓ I'm going to work at an ad agency growing up. You just totally went the engineering route, had no clue you were going to end up doing anything in writing.
Cree: No, not at all, bro. Like, full transparency, man. Like, I grew up in North Philly. Like, my mother's an educator. And, you know, she just wanted us to go to school, get good jobs, make money to, you know, take care of ourselves. And obviously, most things you know of are like doctors, lawyers, and in my case, was like an engineer. I knew those are three things. I didn't want to be in courtrooms all day. I didn't want to be responsible for anybody's life. So, engineer was always leftover. And so just me going into that field and I learned about construction specifically. I said, okay, I like this more because it's still kind of in a creative lane because you're building, right? So it's still almost like that, that middle point between being a creative and still working in engineering. And that's what I knew. And anytime I thought of something that was like writing or art or creative, you think, you think like struggling artists or you gotta, you gotta grind and get it, you know, you know, at least that's how it was for us. I wasn't really educated to see it.
Mark Patterson: Mm-hmm.
Cree: those, there were places you could make good money, make a good living in that space. And again, that's when, once I got older, my mid twenties, and I started talking to people and learning about different careers, that's when I knew like, ⁓ I was completely wrong. was ignorance of anything, just lack of knowledge. I did not know that there were these opportunities. And once I learned, I was able to, got to go for them.
Mark Patterson: Mm-hmm. That's super dope. I love that. I figured that there, I assumed that there was like this, you know, almost like a flicker of like, a dream in the back the whole time. Like, ⁓ I'm going to do this one day. And you're like, bro, I stumbled into this. And that makes it even better because I feel like you, you did touch on it. I think people around you saw the gift or they saw that there was something there.
Cree: Hahaha! Hmm.
Mark Patterson: and you kind of listen to, there's something here and I'm gonna lean into that because I feel like for a lot of people who might be thinking about picking up a camera, doing something creative to either inform, entertain or the above, like I feel like you have to have some type of starter dough that gives you some type of entry point to become a creator. ⁓ But, so you decide, hey, I'm doing all this stuff for these companies and these brands, I'm assuming, and then one day you're like, hey, I wanna do this for myself.
Cree: Yeah, sort of so what actually so how it ended up to starting was Like I said my mid-twenties I decided to take like my health and mental health journey a little bit more seriously and I started going to therapy And with that it was actually a conversation with my therapist at the time and she said something along the lines of like you should start like a YouTube Oh, she said she she's had my conversations were good. I had great outlooks on things So you should start like a YouTube and I was like, I guess maybe you know, but What I started to do was I was writing up what I thought was going be a script for a video that I was going to record. I was like, well, it doesn't read as a script. It more reads like an article, like a blog almost. this is my thing, my wife, I think we were just dating at the time. And she was like, hey, you could publish it on, like there are a lot of outlets. You can just publish your own work. And I started to do that. And I've written, I've written in the past dating advice and stuff like that when I was in college, like really small stuff. But then I started to write more about lifestyle, mental health. And at this time, I'm still working as a project manager and a project engineer. I'm still working at these companies. So I'm writing and I'm putting it out there. And it was getting me a lot of love. And stuff was getting picked up by all our publications. And then that progressed. And then same thing with my mixology. I was always the guy that people, wanted to know. to make a drink, whether alcoholic or non-alcoholic, what do I mix, right? And it's been like that since I was a kid. I was the kid who would mix the hoolay with the ginger ale with the Hawaiian punch to make something brand new. So again, and I keep giving her, I'll probably say her name a lot, Janeshia, my wife, she gave a lot of that to, she was like, hey, you really do this really well, we should record it. And I was like, okay, cool, and then started doing that. And then so the way that I ended up going about it full time was,
Mark Patterson: Yes.
Cree: I realized what I was giving more of my energy to and I was giving it to the creative space. And it was at one point where I actually was working both pretty heavily. pretty much had two full-time jobs of working as a copywriter, working as a construction manager, and also I was still creating content. But I saw what I loved more. I saw what I was able to do more of. And once I talked to my wife about it, said, hey, I like being a construction manager. really loving this creative side of me. she's like, yeah, I'm seeing something in you. It's really growing. Like we could really, you know, you should really dive into that. I think we're in a place where we can do that. Um, and there some things we had to talk about, you know, of course it started going over in a career, some fears that are there, some things we had to check off, but once everything made sense after a few months, it wasn't like, it wasn't a quick turn. It was like probably about a year, a good year transition of us. And then eventually I was like, Hey, I think I'm ready to take that dive to just full time. Copywriter, full-time content creator. And yeah, we made that leap. So once I realized what I was giving more of my energy to and what was kind filling my cut back up, that's when I made that decision.
Mark Patterson: Now, ⁓ I'm curious for the people that might be thinking about taking that leap where they're looking for their next act. They're kinda himmin' and haulin', you know, and they might have some golden handcuffs on, cause it's like you're making some good money on one side and then you're like, no, I can't find, I can't find this over here yet. ⁓ Speak to that.
Cree: Yeah. Mm-hmm. I get it.
Mark Patterson: Because you said that there were some fears, but what were you afraid of? For me, that came to mind when I made the switch. was previously heavily involved in music, but I ended up working in church a lot. So I always had a full-time job. And so then when I decided to step away, I had kind of gotten to a point where I'm like, I step and use this communications degree, I don't know if I'm going to be able to just easily transition.
Cree: Mm-hmm. Right, right.
Mark Patterson: ⁓ And obviously, you know, those fears turned out not to be true, but I'm curious for you, how did you address those fears and what were they?
Cree: Okay, so what you touched on one of the main ones really just income. Income was probably the number one at that time. I've spent already seven years building my career in the construction management space. So my salary reflect that. And so and then me starting over no matter how good I am in the creative space and writing or anything, I'm still starting over, you know, I still it's still still a total pull that I have to climb in it. So but I'll say the the those pride that was really the main fear and also if I really love it That was another thing that was if I really loved it. That's like it well I really want to do this. I'll say the ways that I overcame both of those fears First one honestly God my faith man. Like I just you gotta step on a face sometimes you gotta just You know all my feet not by sight and feel like God is leaving you somewhere Yeah, so that was the same. That's like the most the umbrella But everything else that took part was I'd have a partner. Luckily, I was blessed to a partner who did make a good amount of money. once we kind of looked at our finances and saw like, hey, because like I said, at one point I was balancing two jobs. So my income was like almost double. Like I was bringing in a good amount of money. So with that, I was able to kind of put some reserve for just in case money while at the same time, my wife also was like balancing out like by making more herself. And then we got to a point where we said, hey,
Mark Patterson: Mmm.
Cree: We think we're comfortable with me leaving the higher paying gig and sticking with the one I'm not paying as much, but I can do it. And we'll still be able to live the same way. ⁓ What is the word I'm looking for? The means of living doesn't have to change. So we were like, yeah, we don't have to change too much. We don't have to go from a two bedroom to a shack. We're good. So that was the one thing. So really just balancing out our books, making sure that
Mark Patterson: ⁓ yeah, gotcha. Yes
Cree: and reserve and things like that and then also the if I'll love it part I'll say this I wanted to make sure that any when I left my other career I didn't want to leave on a bad note in case I had to go back so you know like it not and I don't know if I could about saying I can but what I'm saying is I didn't leave in a point where they were like you know you'll never work in this town again bub that didn't happen
Mark Patterson: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Cree: You know, it was like, uh, Hey, you know, you, you're going in a different direction. We understand hope everything works out for you. It's to keep in touch. Um, so I'll say never burning bridges, know, just making sure, because you never know if you do want to go back. If you do want to, you know, try that out and keep your, know, just get back in that field. can't, but yeah, I say definitely just I took a good year. That's what I did. I'd say I took about a good year while I was working both. was, and I was the thing too. I'll say that when I was looking for a.
Mark Patterson: Yeah.
Cree: career that was in copywriting, was doing some individual work, some freelance work, and I was looking at companies as well, but I was making sure if I did work for a company, I was able to balance working for that company and still keeping my full-time job. And that was something I was really fluff about because I knew that that company would not be able to pay me as much as I was making it my other job. Just me coming in entry level or mid level, I had a senior level position. You won't be able to do that.
Mark Patterson: Nice.
Cree: So I just was strategically looking for ways that I could balance both. So obviously that's the main part too. I made sure something I can balance both so I could have that nice transition period and not just jump ship.
Mark Patterson: Mm-hmm. So I want to jump all the way into you, your writing, and it seems like, I think it's safe to say, that you did end up liking it. I checked out your portfolio online. Great body of work. And then you start, it seems, really being intentional about building your personal brand. So you did mention you
Cree: Yeah.
Mark Patterson: your therapist inspired you to kind of start a YouTube channel, but then you kind of decided to start writing and doing articles, but you did pick up the camera eventually. What was that conversation? How did you start that?
Cree: Yeah, eventually, right? Okay, again, that pretty much started with The kind that started with my wife again, I'll say that she was like, hey, you should really record like you making these cocktails. Like this is really, this would be great for you. And you know, say, know, a man to find a wife, find a good thing. So I'll give her, I'll give her credit there. You know, she's great. So she, um, she said he should record. I was like, sure. Why not? Right. I'm already in some of your videos. And then we started recording stuff and making, making those videos and people really liked them. Like I didn't, you know, I always say you sometimes. You know, we discourage ourselves by thinking of what we all like and it's not always about what you will like it's about what was for other people and I say that even like with my writing like I'll write articles and it was just for me to express myself like let me just get this out I don't know who's gonna read it whatever it might sound stupid and I'll put it out there and people come and talk to me like Yo, that was so dope what you said. I didn't know anybody else felt this way. Bazzi blah Bazzi blah and I'm like, wow, like this is bigger than me and I almost and I'll say the same thing about even my cocktail videos, you know, like
Mark Patterson: Yeah.
Cree: I do them for fun, I do them to test my knowledge, I do them to get to, like I said, keep the creative juices flowing, but a lot of people take it and be like, yo, like, I was able to enjoy this beverage, I was able to make a batch of this ad for my baby shower, like, a bunch of stuff like that. So that's how I started getting to that, and then once I was doing that, then kind of transitioned to the kitchen. because I cook a lot. Like I love to cook. It's like in my genes. My grandfather owned multiple restaurants in the city at one point. My mother cooks like so I just love to cook. I started cooking in college for myself when I was when I didn't have a meal plan. I'd learn to cook for me and my roommates. So again, my wife, one day I was cooking for her and her sister was at the house and she had a camera. She's like, I'm gonna record you cooking. I said, okay, cool. Like let me have a flow. You do your thing. She was for her was practice too. And at one point she said,
Mark Patterson: Wow.
Cree: At one point when dinner was ready, my wife was like, that's why I'm then belong in the kitchen. It's like a joke. And we thought it was funny. Like it was all it was funny. So she was like, yeah, that's why I'm the blogger in the kitchen. and then from there, she was like, I think we posted the video and it got a lot of traction. And we were like, we should kind of make this like a series. Like, let's keep doing this. And it took us a while. Like from that initial video, probably was like a year between that and our next video actually started in the series. But ⁓ yeah, that's when I started to kind of really say like.
Mark Patterson: Hmm
Cree: I have cool things that I think people like to see. And that's where it came down to again. That's why I say it's kind of bigger than me. I'm not saying I'm far from a superstar or, you know, I'll look at myself like that. look at like, hey, I do some cool stuff in the crib and I don't like having a bunch of people in my crib. So this is a way that they can see the cool stuff I do without them coming over. That's really it. That's kind of how I think of it.
Mark Patterson: Yes! Yes! I identify with that so much. It's like part of me, I absolutely love being bougie. I love doing fun stuff. I love all the above, but low key I'm an introvert. so if you ask, number one, if you ask me to come in my heart of hearts, I want to be there. But the other part of like, I ain't got time. And I ⁓ definitely do not want a house full of people. And so, ⁓ you know, God's still working on me, but I say all that to say it's super.
Cree: You Right, right. You
Mark Patterson: to hear you describe what you feel like people want because I think the first thing I got when I was watching you and Janisha, did I say her name right? Make sure I say her name right. Okay. I think there was the very easy approach to storytelling, which I feel like she really like brings to the table in terms of like how she opens some of the videos that I've seen with. ⁓
Cree: Yes you
Mark Patterson: the men belong in the kitchen. But from the storytelling, I think you have this very unique approach to like home and lifestyle content, which I feel like we see a bit more of like the urban male, especially black male, but there's a approach that you have that is very, it's just relatable.
Cree: Mm-hmm.
Mark Patterson: And I think for some reason it does not feel, even though it's elevated, it doesn't feel out of reach. And so I think what I enjoy about it is that you kind of feel like, ⁓ I'm gonna try that. Now, I mean, I tried tomorrow. It might be, I might need to watch that video a couple of times, but it feels like, ⁓ I can do that. ⁓ And it really, and hearing you talk about your background and...
Cree: Mm-hmm. you Alright.
Mark Patterson: that you've been cooking for a while and all the above. I think that's why it comes across so easy and effortless. It doesn't feel like you're trying. And I think that is what's enjoyable about the content, but then also inspiring at the same time.
Cree: I appreciate that. Sincerely, that's the first time somebody's really kind of broken down what their POV of the content, man. And I appreciate that. And that's kind of my takeaway. I know sometimes me and Janisha will be talking or doing something. She'll be like, was that cheesy? And I was like, if it was, it was natural. I don't care if it's cheesy. I don't care if it's cool. But I guess I want it to just feel natural, where it's like I'm myself in the kitchen, man. I don't like to take my She knows most people that know me know it's like the kitchen is like, that's like my safe place. I have fun in the kitchen. I am cool. I'm collective. I might be in there a long time. You might be, you might get hungry waiting for me to cook, but it's just where I chill. Like I'm real chill in the kitchen. If I don't got something, I'll figure out something else to put in it. Like, and again, that's why I don't want to take it too seriously. I don't want you to think I'm trying to be Chef Gordon Ramsay and kick you out the kitchen. But also I don't want to have the typical, some typical arguments that you'll see over. I don't know if you like, I watch a lot of cooking content amongst so many different people and the main thing is like, oh, do you wash your chicken? Do you not wash your chicken? Do you eat And I'm like, listen, I'm not getting into that, bro. Like that's not what's important here. Like, like, yo, like this is my food. Y'all not gonna get sick. Trust me. Like we doing it right. I know I've been prepping my chicken. Like I don't want to get into those debates. I just want to have a good time when I'm the kitchen. That's it for me. And that's what my wife knows. and that's even why sometimes it's not even like always step by step.
Mark Patterson: Yeah Yes. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Cree: Like cooking in our videos like step like first do this first do that because a lot of I'm grooving. I'm just grooving. I'm like, you know, catch it catch it. I'm doing this or even sometimes what I might say in the recipe might not be exactly what you'll see in the video because again, I might have switched something up. I might was grooving. I might have to I might say put Kanye if I didn't have Kanye that day. So, you know, I just I got some like I got some red pepper flakes. It was good enough. I get did the job. But yeah, not so I appreciate that. I just try to
Mark Patterson: Mm-hmm. Mmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Cree: We both do, we try to just keep it very natural, very organic and just fun. Again, the kitchen's a happy place for me.
Mark Patterson: Yeah, I think that's what makes it trustworthy. think there's so much ⁓ performative, ⁓ and it's not that it's a knock on people who might be performative, ⁓ but I think there's a lot of performative content. I think that there's a lot of content that really showcases the creature comforts of home, people that have immaculate stuff in their home, and it's all nice. But I think... There's something, some how some way, some creators find a way to break through that wall and invite you into their space and you feel like you're there. And you feel like, ⁓ I can do this in my own life. And there are even like intangibles. I wasn't even planning to like go through this, but I just want to even affirm ⁓ one, you and how you interact with your wife too, because I feel like.
Cree: and
Mark Patterson: there's a subtext there as well. And then hearing you, how you have talked about your wife in this interview, I feel like it makes sense. I think that there's something about like family and the care that you're putting into like how you're making home home and how that is inspiring for other people, particularly people who look like us, who it's like, you gotta have more... ⁓ more references than it was when we were growing up. You gotta have more than the Cosby's, you know? You gotta have a variety of people and I love, I just love how there's just an honesty and there's an approachable way that you guys do things. And so I wonder how that approachable, trustworthy nature has been leveraged into you not only creating content, but kind of
Cree: Right, right, right, right, right, right. Mm-hmm.
Mark Patterson: being that creatorpreneur. Have you made intentional steps to monetize or do you feel like it's just happened?
Cree: Nah, we made intentional steps. I'm not even going to throw like, you know, but I don't let the, but what I will say is I think organic works, right? Because let's go back to the beginning of the conversation where I said I had a job where I was making a bunch of money, but like, I didn't love it, right? Like I didn't like, I had, I a love, but it wasn't like, I didn't, I didn't feel it. So for me, it's like, I can do just about anything. I truly believe. I can do just by anything. Am I gonna like it? Am I gonna be happy? Is it gonna make me miss like I don't that's where I don't that's where that's what matters to me. It's not about can I do it? It's more so like do I want to do this forever? So in the reason why I bring those bring that back to the content I don't want to put myself in a I know how to I'm there are ways to make content and make money But it might not be something I want to do. You know, I mean like I could like you said certain things are
Mark Patterson: Yeah.
Cree: you know, they could feel gimmicky or for store stuff or just copied, right? Like I could ease I could do at this point, how many videos have we seen of people doing food reviews in their cars? No offense to anyone that does do them. That's not what I'm saying. But like, after was like, I don't like that for me. Like, I'm tired of the chick flake came out with a third sandwich this week. I'm tired of eating. Like it's like, after a while is not what I want to do. So what I mean by that is I
Mark Patterson: Yes. Mm-hmm.
Cree: gonna keep it as organic and true to us and as to myself and figure out ways that that could be monetized. So when it does, it's like, I don't get sick of it. I don't feel like, wow, I keep doing this. Like, you know, I can do it away. And I'll see again, what, 10th time I mentioned her, shout to my wife, because I'm so, I've seen her do that with her content. Like, you know, she does a lot of lifestyle, but she started off with fashion content. My wife loves fashion.
Mark Patterson: Mm-hmm.
Cree: Yeah, that's Jamie a passion of hers and she's really good at it. So she's able to monetize that. So for us, for myself, I just figure I'm looking for ways to look for ways to monetize. I've reached out to brands. I've definitely pitched stuff. I'm, Hey, this is this, but it's stuff that I actually can stand by. Right. I'm not going to just say, if people don't reach out to say, Hey, we'll pay you to use this product. And I'll say, I don't think I'm, have the audience for that. Or I don't think I am.
Mark Patterson: Mm-hmm.
Cree: I can't stick behind I'm not gonna just do it for a buck because then I don't know people like hey remember that gadget you used I don't remember because I don't use it I just put in the video one day I don't actually don't use that gadget but everything you see in the video I've used like you know and I'll be as transparent as I can so answer your question yes I definitely have intentionally trying to monetize by doing it a way that it's it's a way that I can stand by for as long
Mark Patterson: Yes, yes. I would love to double click on that. at what point did it make sense for you to start pitching, start reaching out, and then at what point did people start reaching out to you? Like talk to me about the type of content you were doing and like the numbers around maybe your following, engagement, all that good stuff.
Cree: So I started, so I would say as early as, even add some years to it, I think as early as around 2021, that's when I was still more so like writing a lot. been writing in a while, or more so having published in a while, I'm always writing. But that's when I wrote something and it was picked up by a publication and it was monetized and I was getting money from, like reads from views of the article. And it was actually going pretty well. was getting... nice little residual check every month, just a little deposit to my account. So I was like, okay, this is nice. just yeah. Okay, this is like, you know, like, residual funds, you know what I mean? Like, so passive income. But the but but that's that was my writing. And then moving forward, once I started to actually do like a lot of our video content, you know,
Mark Patterson: We like this. Yes.
Cree: people would reach out to me or people reach out to Janisha and it'll be brands that are like, hey, hey, we would like you to feature our glassware feature our, our like this alcohol specifically. And I was like, okay, let's do it. And we'll, you know, we'll talk about a price. It's not, there will be a price. And it might be just a gifting, which is fine too. But I'll say as early pitch early, the worst thing to say is no, or nothing at all. You know what I mean? Like you never know what a brand or company is looking for. And sometimes it just be getting it in front of them, just like pitch, put it out there. If you see something that you like, that's something again. Okay, my wife, I'll say, you know, I'll show her something like, ⁓ I love this, this ice maker from this company. She's like, ⁓ like reach out to him. I'm like, what? She's like, Tzatzito said it, like just ask, like say, hey, I would love to feature this in one of my videos. I'm like, ⁓ wow, like cool. And I'm not gonna say it works every time.
Mark Patterson: Mmm.
Cree: If I send out 10 videos, I might get a response from one. But that one was the one that sends something to me. You know what I mean? Like it works. So I think it's, don't think it's never, I don't think it was a following count. I think at that time, just to say I might've had 2000 followers maybe, but, of course followers do matter for the brands, but I'm saying you don't know what brand is looking for one followers at a time. You know what I'm saying? Like they might not want to make, they might want a micro, I mean a macro influencer. They might want somebody small and then.
Mark Patterson: Yeah.
Cree: You you can just build up your like build up your reputation.
Mark Patterson: I love it. ⁓ And so you say pitch early. I love how you mention like being clear about what you want to do and doing what's authentic to you and not just basically chasing a check. ⁓ Because to your point, it's that question of can you do this? Do you want to do this forever? I think then allows you to make content with longevity and content that is going to come from an authentic place. So balancing content that you're creating and now you've kind of got somewhat of a monetization strategy around it. What do you feel like really works for you as a creatorpreneur in terms of a process? you know, going from idea to hitting publish and then figuring out, you know, how you might want to even engage with your audience after to make sure our post performs well, like
Cree: Mm.
Mark Patterson: ⁓ What's the, I wanna say a day in the life, but almost like what's the, I'm imagining like a, what do call it? Like a conveyor belt or like ⁓ how they put together ⁓ the Model T in the factory. Yes, like how are you putting that together? Yes, that's it, thank you.
Cree: Yeah. Uh huh. Yeah. Each part that goes on down. I got you. I got you. The assembly line. Yeah. Gotcha. I got you. So, um, man, you know, I wish I could say it looks one way. I wish I could, which I can make it as simple as it does, but it changes the pins. Um, but I'll go around like a typical, like, or not typical, but one more recently. let's say it was, So we had a last Black History Month, right, last February, right? So for me, I love different spirits, but I definitely love Black-owned spirits and Black-owned companies. And I have a relationship with a few ⁓ that are really getting their names out there. So with that, I would think of, which ones do I have? Which ones do I like? Which ones can I get my hands on? If it's one that's I know someone that like I know the owner of that company like hey I know someone that or someone that works with that company I'll reach out to them like hey I'm thinking of a concept for a cocktail do you think they'll be probably give me a bottle I'm not even asking for money I'm just asking for the supplies yeah sure no problem and that's so for them that's a free feature for me that's a free bottle and also there's no strings attached really this is just building a reputation there isn't like a contract agreement this isn't a You need to post at this time. It's not that it's very simple. So I'll do that. And the thing is, but it opens up that conversation because maybe they do want to do something that's, we actually would love to feature you. And then that's you start talking, you know, but sometimes just, just, just open a relationship. So then I'll go from there. I'll get my supplies. And then from that, I'll then think, okay, well, let me, how can I make these cocktails and sense them around black history month? Right. So I'll be okay. Well, I this this whiskey and what's something that you know, like below a level good iced tea. All right, cool. What if I did like a, you know, peach or peach iced tea old fashioned? Okay, then let me see the meat drive now I got got a bunch of like cocktail books and stuff. I'll look through our research and flavor nodes and see them come together. Also see what's easy, like easy ish things that like my that I wanted to be something that my audience can get. I don't expect my audience to be mixologists or bartenders or people with a wide selection. Just things that are easy. So I make it maybe about four or five ingredients at max. Now I have about three cocktails, three. I have three good cocktails that I can stand by. I have a videographer that I film with for my content. I wish I could film and edit myself, but I wasn't gifted with that ability or at least that patience. So I'll contact my videographer. Hey, what's your schedule? Do you have time on the books? We'll book up a couple of hours.
Mark Patterson: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Cree: He's like, yeah, sure, we can do it. We'll come by. We'll film the whole thing, take a whole nice little day of it, film everything. To some people's surprise, I don't drink the cocktails afterwards because I'm still working technically. So I might store, I have ways of storing them for later. So I might store them for another day or something or give them to Janisha or whatever, but I don't drink them all the time. So pass those off and then me and him will talk and I'll be like, hey, you can get these to me by this day because I have this schedule. So then I'll build out my schedule. All let me post on
Mark Patterson: Okay.
Cree: I want to post on this day, this day, this day. I'll talk with Janisha because sometimes we might have like Mim blogs in the kitchen, which then we'll kind of work into that. Okay. Well, we're going to blog in the kitchen. That's posting this day. What that means I should post on this day and this day. I'm kind of trying to spread it out to keep active. And then my video, I don't forget everything to me. We'll go through editing process to make sure everything looks good. And then as he's doing that, I'm thinking of captions. I'm getting together the recipe, make sure the recipe is easy to follow.
Mark Patterson: Mm-hmm.
Cree: getting together cover photos, you know, kind of brainstorming some other things and then kind of just getting it out, like just having loaded up and posting them every once a week and just getting them out when I can. That's like the typical way I pretty much go about
Mark Patterson: Mm-hmm. And so you're posting directly in the platform or do you use a scheduler?
Cree: I post on platform. I do all my posting like directly in the platform myself. Yeah, I'm not using I know there are schedules, but I haven't just because I just I like my hands to be the last thing to touch before it's out. Like any any misread, anything that doesn't look right or also I'm right there to change it if something goes wrong while I'm uploading it because of a scheduler, you might let it do its own thing. But let's say there was a typo that you didn't look at or something in upload writing.
Mark Patterson: Mm-hmm.
Cree: You're not there when it posted. obviously busy. That's why you have a scheduler and you don't catch it. Then something you gotta fix later.
Mark Patterson: ⁓ I do want to dive in, I'm careful because I come from a school of thought where it's like, look, we ain't talking about what's happening in the pockets now. But I do think for transparency, just understand there are levels to this. ⁓ Really understand the business model behind how you set it up. So I'm curious if you'd be willing to break down because you talked about, I think you might be one of the first creators I've talked to.
Cree: Hahaha!
Mark Patterson: that works with a team specifically to create said content. So like you're outsourcing video for the recording and editing. that means, because if I know you based upon this conversation, you did the math. So that means ⁓ you've got the investment of what you're doing to produce the content. And ultimately, yes, there's some intentionality behind it, but if you're posting once a week,
Cree: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm.
Mark Patterson: you might have a level of investment and some of these might be branded, some of these might not be. So talk to me about the economics behind it. And if you're feeling willing, talk to us about like what you expect from brand deals as you are, because you're up here putting that level of investment upfront, like what are you expecting from brand deals now at the stage that you're in?
Cree: Mm-hmm. Okay, so I could talk a little something and, you know, allude to a few other things, right? So ⁓ for me to grow my platform and for me to be marketable, right? I have to put things out regardless. So everything I put out is not branded and it won't be branded, but there is, but there's always an opportunity for growth. So I say that, so even though, yeah, so though I have a videographer, you know, me and him kind of have to just own a retainer. like, this many videos for this amount, ⁓ that works for us, that cost works for us, and that can range. So you can probably give that number, anchor range, like, depending on your quality. If you can film yourself and you can edit yourself as a creator, like, Janisha does a lot of stuff herself. She's just gifted that way. I am not. ⁓ But so I have him on retainer, and so we'll make videos. for me, but now when I work with a brand, Depending on the brand, let's say it's like a higher, like a higher value brand. It depends on things like the numbers I'm looking for from them. It really depends, right? Because it's like, what are they looking for from me? How many posts are they looking for? How many story posts are they looking for? Are they looking for like, just, are they looking for like organic usage or are they looking for paid usage? Because if they're looking for organic usage, then they're not. You they're not necessarily going to get anything from it like initially but they're using paid usage then it's like well I'm gonna need you know, you got a total extra on top of there because you'll be getting some money ⁓ and Also like if they want exclusivity which I've done with so like I've done deals with brands who have said like hey once you post you can't post anything with a showing and liquor brand for 30 days after so then that like I said, right I I post regardless to build up my brand. So now you're kind of hindering my building. You got to pay for that. So then I'm like, so I'll have that included too. Like, Hey, my exclusivity rights for every 10 days is this cost, you know, like, and then I'll add that in to on top of whatever the base rate is. So it's kind of hard to give an exact number to be super honest, cause it really just depends on what the deal works out. But I think what's important is, and like you said, I've done that. So do the math is important to to from looking for to quantify everything. And what I mean by quantify everything, quantify your time, like figure out what's your hourly rate as a creator, just in general period for you to do something. It doesn't matter if it's just showing up. It doesn't matter if it's recording. What is your hourly rate as your base? And then you add everything on top of it. Like, OK, hey, we want you to make a cocktail. We want you here. The rest we want you to.
Mark Patterson: Mm-hmm.
Cree: come up with a concept you want me to come up with a concept that's more time now if you give me a concept there's less time because you're just telling me to do but if you're giving me a I mean you caught there's more time stack that on top okay well now we need you to get the ingredients you need me to get the ingredients that's another cost I'll get them but you gotta pay for them that on top okay great but then now we need exclusivity we don't need you to post anybody for 60 days after you post us oh that's now that's my facility clock that we're adding that in as much time as and that's where you kind of are just building out. So I can say I've done deals from to give range. I've done deals with some companies where I've only charged them a couple hundred bucks, like literally 200 bucks, smaller brands. I might've known the person that was working with them. And I was like, yeah, sure. I'll do this. Cause again, I'm going to film anyway. I like the product. Let's go for it. And I have some that were like, Hey, we need a quick turnaround, but it's a bunch of clauses. We need you to do this. We need you to do that. It's a big brand. I don't know them personally, it's all business. And that can go up to the like four, five digits depending on the deal. know, can hit to like that 10,000 mark depending on exactly what the deal is. And again, that comes with a lot more red tape and a lot more work arounds, but you know, it's worth it. So it really ranges, I can say, but it's all about, like I said, I think my main thing is to quantify as much as you possibly can and that makes it easier to work your deals.
Mark Patterson: Mm-hmm. Thank you for giving us the lay of the land there. ⁓ Final question before we go. I really want you to speak to the early version of Cree, who was thinking about like, you know what? Maybe I want to speak to that year gap between when you first did the Men Belong in the Kitchen and then you decided at some point, you know what, let's just really give this a shot. Like that person who's on the fence. the younger you who might be kind of like him and Han if you will, talk to him and what would you tell him based upon what you know now and what you have experienced today.
Cree: Mm-hmm. ⁓ man, I'll say... Be yourself. I was telling him to be yourself to... Do what you love and... Don't be afraid to take the leap. That was probably the main thing I was saying. Don't be afraid. That was probably the main thing. Don't be afraid to take the leap. That's something I struggle with sometimes is I have trouble starting because I worry about stopping. I know that might sound weird, but I get so worried. Yeah, I don't want to start because if I don't finish, then I just wasted my time. So I might as well not even start. But I think, and again, I guess in the final question, I'll give a final shout out.
Mark Patterson: ⁓ does it?
Cree: Janisha's really good with that. She's not that woman is like I don't think she's fearless cuz my baby be having fears but she gets through it but like she can she knows how to like just do like she's such a doer doer I'm a thinker I think a lot of more strategizing the the the theologic like she's like a doer so with her she's like I just give her an idea hey I'm thinking we're doing it okay let's do it we're stopping us so I say to my own So take the leap. Just do it.
Mark Patterson: Yes, other than I think a titling this, marry well, I think that is a ⁓ fitting note to end on. It's like, just do it. Take the leap, do what you love, believe in yourself. ⁓ Thank you so much, Kree, for joining us this week. You are welcome any time on the Convo Room podcast. And I just want to thank y'all for joining me again this week. And I cannot wait to scroll through the feed and see you again pretty soon, bro.
Cree: Hahaha! I appreciate it.
Mark Patterson: Until then, wait, before we go, need to make sure, because we haven't said it, let everybody know where they can follow you, and then we'll be out.
Cree: No problem. Okay, you can follow me on Instagram my main platform at Cree A Moore ⁓ and you can also follow at cocktails and Moore that is my strictly cocktails page and between those two you'll see everything that I have as far as writing cocktails and then belong in the kitchen new episodes coming soon
Mark Patterson: Yes, sir. Have a good one, bro. Appreciate you so much.
Cree: You too. Appreciate you.
Cree: appreciate it Mark, thanks man, appreciate being here.
Mark Patterson: Yes sir, mean man, you've got an engineering degree, you've been working as a project manager, and then you decide, hey, I need a creative outlet, I wanna start writing. Talk us through what got you into this journey to become a creator.
Cree: That's a deep one and I'll try to, I'll give it the shorter but still version that matters the most. So yeah, I to school for construction management and Temple University was in the School of Engineering. actually through my paternity, I'm a member of Phi Alpha Paternity Incorporated. We hosted events and held programs and. There's so many different outlets, community services, things like that. And one of my fraternity brothers, is obviously one of my best friends, we had a working relationship of hosting events for a while. And at one point, I remember he said to me, he asked my opinion on something when were working. was, and module, he was an engineer as well. He was like, hey, you know, I'm gonna leave that to you. You're the creative. And I was almost assaulted, won't lie to you. I was like, the creative, what do you mean? What do you mean by that? Like, I didn't have a... positive connotation to it. And as time went on, this is before I met my wife and everything, but then when I got married. as I was still working in the project management space for a construction company, I realized that I did like hosting events. I liked creating things. I liked working on recipes. I loved cooking. I loved things that I can just really let my creative juices flow. And my wife really helped steer me in a direction that she kind of backed what he said all those years ago. Like, well, you are creative, baby. You do these type of things. And then it came to a point where, you know, though was I was happy in my career because it gave me so much and I learned so much what I was doing. I said, hey, I think I kind of want to take a switch. And then from there, you know, with the help of some friends, my wife, a few programs that I did, I was able to make a good switch to advertising as a copywriter. And that was like a whole journey in itself. But then that's kind of the shorter version.
Mark Patterson: That is so dope. So you didn't grow up thinking like, ⁓ I'm going to work at an ad agency growing up. You just totally went the engineering route, had no clue you were going to end up doing anything in writing.
Cree: No, not at all, bro. Like, full transparency, man. Like, I grew up in North Philly. Like, my mother's an educator. And, you know, she just wanted us to go to school, get good jobs, make money to, you know, take care of ourselves. And obviously, most things you know of are like doctors, lawyers, and in my case, was like an engineer. I knew those are three things. I didn't want to be in courtrooms all day. I didn't want to be responsible for anybody's life. So, engineer was always leftover. And so just me going into that field and I learned about construction specifically. I said, okay, I like this more because it's still kind of in a creative lane because you're building, right? So it's still almost like that, that middle point between being a creative and still working in engineering. And that's what I knew. And anytime I thought of something that was like writing or art or creative, you think, you think like struggling artists or you gotta, you gotta grind and get it, you know, you know, at least that's how it was for us. I wasn't really educated to see it.
Mark Patterson: Mm-hmm.
Cree: those, there were places you could make good money, make a good living in that space. And again, that's when, once I got older, my mid twenties, and I started talking to people and learning about different careers, that's when I knew like, ⁓ I was completely wrong. was ignorance of anything, just lack of knowledge. I did not know that there were these opportunities. And once I learned, I was able to, got to go for them.
Mark Patterson: Mm-hmm. That's super dope. I love that. I figured that there, I assumed that there was like this, you know, almost like a flicker of like, a dream in the back the whole time. Like, ⁓ I'm going to do this one day. And you're like, bro, I stumbled into this. And that makes it even better because I feel like you, you did touch on it. I think people around you saw the gift or they saw that there was something there.
Cree: Hahaha! Hmm.
Mark Patterson: and you kind of listen to, there's something here and I'm gonna lean into that because I feel like for a lot of people who might be thinking about picking up a camera, doing something creative to either inform, entertain or the above, like I feel like you have to have some type of starter dough that gives you some type of entry point to become a creator. ⁓ But, so you decide, hey, I'm doing all this stuff for these companies and these brands, I'm assuming, and then one day you're like, hey, I wanna do this for myself.
Cree: Yeah, sort of so what actually so how it ended up to starting was Like I said my mid-twenties I decided to take like my health and mental health journey a little bit more seriously and I started going to therapy And with that it was actually a conversation with my therapist at the time and she said something along the lines of like you should start like a YouTube Oh, she said she she's had my conversations were good. I had great outlooks on things So you should start like a YouTube and I was like, I guess maybe you know, but What I started to do was I was writing up what I thought was going be a script for a video that I was going to record. I was like, well, it doesn't read as a script. It more reads like an article, like a blog almost. this is my thing, my wife, I think we were just dating at the time. And she was like, hey, you could publish it on, like there are a lot of outlets. You can just publish your own work. And I started to do that. And I've written, I've written in the past dating advice and stuff like that when I was in college, like really small stuff. But then I started to write more about lifestyle, mental health. And at this time, I'm still working as a project manager and a project engineer. I'm still working at these companies. So I'm writing and I'm putting it out there. And it was getting me a lot of love. And stuff was getting picked up by all our publications. And then that progressed. And then same thing with my mixology. I was always the guy that people, wanted to know. to make a drink, whether alcoholic or non-alcoholic, what do I mix, right? And it's been like that since I was a kid. I was the kid who would mix the hoolay with the ginger ale with the Hawaiian punch to make something brand new. So again, and I keep giving her, I'll probably say her name a lot, Janeshia, my wife, she gave a lot of that to, she was like, hey, you really do this really well, we should record it. And I was like, okay, cool, and then started doing that. And then so the way that I ended up going about it full time was,
Mark Patterson: Yes.
Cree: I realized what I was giving more of my energy to and I was giving it to the creative space. And it was at one point where I actually was working both pretty heavily. pretty much had two full-time jobs of working as a copywriter, working as a construction manager, and also I was still creating content. But I saw what I loved more. I saw what I was able to do more of. And once I talked to my wife about it, said, hey, I like being a construction manager. really loving this creative side of me. she's like, yeah, I'm seeing something in you. It's really growing. Like we could really, you know, you should really dive into that. I think we're in a place where we can do that. Um, and there some things we had to talk about, you know, of course it started going over in a career, some fears that are there, some things we had to check off, but once everything made sense after a few months, it wasn't like, it wasn't a quick turn. It was like probably about a year, a good year transition of us. And then eventually I was like, Hey, I think I'm ready to take that dive to just full time. Copywriter, full-time content creator. And yeah, we made that leap. So once I realized what I was giving more of my energy to and what was kind filling my cut back up, that's when I made that decision.
Mark Patterson: Now, ⁓ I'm curious for the people that might be thinking about taking that leap where they're looking for their next act. They're kinda himmin' and haulin', you know, and they might have some golden handcuffs on, cause it's like you're making some good money on one side and then you're like, no, I can't find, I can't find this over here yet. ⁓ Speak to that.
Cree: Yeah. Mm-hmm. I get it.
Mark Patterson: Because you said that there were some fears, but what were you afraid of? For me, that came to mind when I made the switch. was previously heavily involved in music, but I ended up working in church a lot. So I always had a full-time job. And so then when I decided to step away, I had kind of gotten to a point where I'm like, I step and use this communications degree, I don't know if I'm going to be able to just easily transition.
Cree: Mm-hmm. Right, right.
Mark Patterson: ⁓ And obviously, you know, those fears turned out not to be true, but I'm curious for you, how did you address those fears and what were they?
Cree: Okay, so what you touched on one of the main ones really just income. Income was probably the number one at that time. I've spent already seven years building my career in the construction management space. So my salary reflect that. And so and then me starting over no matter how good I am in the creative space and writing or anything, I'm still starting over, you know, I still it's still still a total pull that I have to climb in it. So but I'll say the the those pride that was really the main fear and also if I really love it That was another thing that was if I really loved it. That's like it well I really want to do this. I'll say the ways that I overcame both of those fears First one honestly God my faith man. Like I just you gotta step on a face sometimes you gotta just You know all my feet not by sight and feel like God is leaving you somewhere Yeah, so that was the same. That's like the most the umbrella But everything else that took part was I'd have a partner. Luckily, I was blessed to a partner who did make a good amount of money. once we kind of looked at our finances and saw like, hey, because like I said, at one point I was balancing two jobs. So my income was like almost double. Like I was bringing in a good amount of money. So with that, I was able to kind of put some reserve for just in case money while at the same time, my wife also was like balancing out like by making more herself. And then we got to a point where we said, hey,
Mark Patterson: Mmm.
Cree: We think we're comfortable with me leaving the higher paying gig and sticking with the one I'm not paying as much, but I can do it. And we'll still be able to live the same way. ⁓ What is the word I'm looking for? The means of living doesn't have to change. So we were like, yeah, we don't have to change too much. We don't have to go from a two bedroom to a shack. We're good. So that was the one thing. So really just balancing out our books, making sure that
Mark Patterson: ⁓ yeah, gotcha. Yes
Cree: and reserve and things like that and then also the if I'll love it part I'll say this I wanted to make sure that any when I left my other career I didn't want to leave on a bad note in case I had to go back so you know like it not and I don't know if I could about saying I can but what I'm saying is I didn't leave in a point where they were like you know you'll never work in this town again bub that didn't happen
Mark Patterson: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Cree: You know, it was like, uh, Hey, you know, you, you're going in a different direction. We understand hope everything works out for you. It's to keep in touch. Um, so I'll say never burning bridges, know, just making sure, because you never know if you do want to go back. If you do want to, you know, try that out and keep your, know, just get back in that field. can't, but yeah, I say definitely just I took a good year. That's what I did. I'd say I took about a good year while I was working both. was, and I was the thing too. I'll say that when I was looking for a.
Mark Patterson: Yeah.
Cree: career that was in copywriting, was doing some individual work, some freelance work, and I was looking at companies as well, but I was making sure if I did work for a company, I was able to balance working for that company and still keeping my full-time job. And that was something I was really fluff about because I knew that that company would not be able to pay me as much as I was making it my other job. Just me coming in entry level or mid level, I had a senior level position. You won't be able to do that.
Mark Patterson: Nice.
Cree: So I just was strategically looking for ways that I could balance both. So obviously that's the main part too. I made sure something I can balance both so I could have that nice transition period and not just jump ship.
Mark Patterson: Mm-hmm. So I want to jump all the way into you, your writing, and it seems like, I think it's safe to say, that you did end up liking it. I checked out your portfolio online. Great body of work. And then you start, it seems, really being intentional about building your personal brand. So you did mention you
Cree: Yeah.
Mark Patterson: your therapist inspired you to kind of start a YouTube channel, but then you kind of decided to start writing and doing articles, but you did pick up the camera eventually. What was that conversation? How did you start that?
Cree: Yeah, eventually, right? Okay, again, that pretty much started with The kind that started with my wife again, I'll say that she was like, hey, you should really record like you making these cocktails. Like this is really, this would be great for you. And you know, say, know, a man to find a wife, find a good thing. So I'll give her, I'll give her credit there. You know, she's great. So she, um, she said he should record. I was like, sure. Why not? Right. I'm already in some of your videos. And then we started recording stuff and making, making those videos and people really liked them. Like I didn't, you know, I always say you sometimes. You know, we discourage ourselves by thinking of what we all like and it's not always about what you will like it's about what was for other people and I say that even like with my writing like I'll write articles and it was just for me to express myself like let me just get this out I don't know who's gonna read it whatever it might sound stupid and I'll put it out there and people come and talk to me like Yo, that was so dope what you said. I didn't know anybody else felt this way. Bazzi blah Bazzi blah and I'm like, wow, like this is bigger than me and I almost and I'll say the same thing about even my cocktail videos, you know, like
Mark Patterson: Yeah.
Cree: I do them for fun, I do them to test my knowledge, I do them to get to, like I said, keep the creative juices flowing, but a lot of people take it and be like, yo, like, I was able to enjoy this beverage, I was able to make a batch of this ad for my baby shower, like, a bunch of stuff like that. So that's how I started getting to that, and then once I was doing that, then kind of transitioned to the kitchen. because I cook a lot. Like I love to cook. It's like in my genes. My grandfather owned multiple restaurants in the city at one point. My mother cooks like so I just love to cook. I started cooking in college for myself when I was when I didn't have a meal plan. I'd learn to cook for me and my roommates. So again, my wife, one day I was cooking for her and her sister was at the house and she had a camera. She's like, I'm gonna record you cooking. I said, okay, cool. Like let me have a flow. You do your thing. She was for her was practice too. And at one point she said,
Mark Patterson: Wow.
Cree: At one point when dinner was ready, my wife was like, that's why I'm then belong in the kitchen. It's like a joke. And we thought it was funny. Like it was all it was funny. So she was like, yeah, that's why I'm the blogger in the kitchen. and then from there, she was like, I think we posted the video and it got a lot of traction. And we were like, we should kind of make this like a series. Like, let's keep doing this. And it took us a while. Like from that initial video, probably was like a year between that and our next video actually started in the series. But ⁓ yeah, that's when I started to kind of really say like.
Mark Patterson: Hmm
Cree: I have cool things that I think people like to see. And that's where it came down to again. That's why I say it's kind of bigger than me. I'm not saying I'm far from a superstar or, you know, I'll look at myself like that. look at like, hey, I do some cool stuff in the crib and I don't like having a bunch of people in my crib. So this is a way that they can see the cool stuff I do without them coming over. That's really it. That's kind of how I think of it.
Mark Patterson: Yes! Yes! I identify with that so much. It's like part of me, I absolutely love being bougie. I love doing fun stuff. I love all the above, but low key I'm an introvert. so if you ask, number one, if you ask me to come in my heart of hearts, I want to be there. But the other part of like, I ain't got time. And I ⁓ definitely do not want a house full of people. And so, ⁓ you know, God's still working on me, but I say all that to say it's super.
Cree: You Right, right. You
Mark Patterson: to hear you describe what you feel like people want because I think the first thing I got when I was watching you and Janisha, did I say her name right? Make sure I say her name right. Okay. I think there was the very easy approach to storytelling, which I feel like she really like brings to the table in terms of like how she opens some of the videos that I've seen with. ⁓
Cree: Yes you
Mark Patterson: the men belong in the kitchen. But from the storytelling, I think you have this very unique approach to like home and lifestyle content, which I feel like we see a bit more of like the urban male, especially black male, but there's a approach that you have that is very, it's just relatable.
Cree: Mm-hmm.
Mark Patterson: And I think for some reason it does not feel, even though it's elevated, it doesn't feel out of reach. And so I think what I enjoy about it is that you kind of feel like, ⁓ I'm gonna try that. Now, I mean, I tried tomorrow. It might be, I might need to watch that video a couple of times, but it feels like, ⁓ I can do that. ⁓ And it really, and hearing you talk about your background and...
Cree: Mm-hmm. you Alright.
Mark Patterson: that you've been cooking for a while and all the above. I think that's why it comes across so easy and effortless. It doesn't feel like you're trying. And I think that is what's enjoyable about the content, but then also inspiring at the same time.
Cree: I appreciate that. Sincerely, that's the first time somebody's really kind of broken down what their POV of the content, man. And I appreciate that. And that's kind of my takeaway. I know sometimes me and Janisha will be talking or doing something. She'll be like, was that cheesy? And I was like, if it was, it was natural. I don't care if it's cheesy. I don't care if it's cool. But I guess I want it to just feel natural, where it's like I'm myself in the kitchen, man. I don't like to take my She knows most people that know me know it's like the kitchen is like, that's like my safe place. I have fun in the kitchen. I am cool. I'm collective. I might be in there a long time. You might be, you might get hungry waiting for me to cook, but it's just where I chill. Like I'm real chill in the kitchen. If I don't got something, I'll figure out something else to put in it. Like, and again, that's why I don't want to take it too seriously. I don't want you to think I'm trying to be Chef Gordon Ramsay and kick you out the kitchen. But also I don't want to have the typical, some typical arguments that you'll see over. I don't know if you like, I watch a lot of cooking content amongst so many different people and the main thing is like, oh, do you wash your chicken? Do you not wash your chicken? Do you eat And I'm like, listen, I'm not getting into that, bro. Like that's not what's important here. Like, like, yo, like this is my food. Y'all not gonna get sick. Trust me. Like we doing it right. I know I've been prepping my chicken. Like I don't want to get into those debates. I just want to have a good time when I'm the kitchen. That's it for me. And that's what my wife knows. and that's even why sometimes it's not even like always step by step.
Mark Patterson: Yeah Yes. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Cree: Like cooking in our videos like step like first do this first do that because a lot of I'm grooving. I'm just grooving. I'm like, you know, catch it catch it. I'm doing this or even sometimes what I might say in the recipe might not be exactly what you'll see in the video because again, I might have switched something up. I might was grooving. I might have to I might say put Kanye if I didn't have Kanye that day. So, you know, I just I got some like I got some red pepper flakes. It was good enough. I get did the job. But yeah, not so I appreciate that. I just try to
Mark Patterson: Mm-hmm. Mmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Cree: We both do, we try to just keep it very natural, very organic and just fun. Again, the kitchen's a happy place for me.
Mark Patterson: Yeah, I think that's what makes it trustworthy. think there's so much ⁓ performative, ⁓ and it's not that it's a knock on people who might be performative, ⁓ but I think there's a lot of performative content. I think that there's a lot of content that really showcases the creature comforts of home, people that have immaculate stuff in their home, and it's all nice. But I think... There's something, some how some way, some creators find a way to break through that wall and invite you into their space and you feel like you're there. And you feel like, ⁓ I can do this in my own life. And there are even like intangibles. I wasn't even planning to like go through this, but I just want to even affirm ⁓ one, you and how you interact with your wife too, because I feel like.
Cree: and
Mark Patterson: there's a subtext there as well. And then hearing you, how you have talked about your wife in this interview, I feel like it makes sense. I think that there's something about like family and the care that you're putting into like how you're making home home and how that is inspiring for other people, particularly people who look like us, who it's like, you gotta have more... ⁓ more references than it was when we were growing up. You gotta have more than the Cosby's, you know? You gotta have a variety of people and I love, I just love how there's just an honesty and there's an approachable way that you guys do things. And so I wonder how that approachable, trustworthy nature has been leveraged into you not only creating content, but kind of
Cree: Right, right, right, right, right, right. Mm-hmm.
Mark Patterson: being that creatorpreneur. Have you made intentional steps to monetize or do you feel like it's just happened?
Cree: Nah, we made intentional steps. I'm not even going to throw like, you know, but I don't let the, but what I will say is I think organic works, right? Because let's go back to the beginning of the conversation where I said I had a job where I was making a bunch of money, but like, I didn't love it, right? Like I didn't like, I had, I a love, but it wasn't like, I didn't, I didn't feel it. So for me, it's like, I can do just about anything. I truly believe. I can do just by anything. Am I gonna like it? Am I gonna be happy? Is it gonna make me miss like I don't that's where I don't that's where that's what matters to me. It's not about can I do it? It's more so like do I want to do this forever? So in the reason why I bring those bring that back to the content I don't want to put myself in a I know how to I'm there are ways to make content and make money But it might not be something I want to do. You know, I mean like I could like you said certain things are
Mark Patterson: Yeah.
Cree: you know, they could feel gimmicky or for store stuff or just copied, right? Like I could ease I could do at this point, how many videos have we seen of people doing food reviews in their cars? No offense to anyone that does do them. That's not what I'm saying. But like, after was like, I don't like that for me. Like, I'm tired of the chick flake came out with a third sandwich this week. I'm tired of eating. Like it's like, after a while is not what I want to do. So what I mean by that is I
Mark Patterson: Yes. Mm-hmm.
Cree: gonna keep it as organic and true to us and as to myself and figure out ways that that could be monetized. So when it does, it's like, I don't get sick of it. I don't feel like, wow, I keep doing this. Like, you know, I can do it away. And I'll see again, what, 10th time I mentioned her, shout to my wife, because I'm so, I've seen her do that with her content. Like, you know, she does a lot of lifestyle, but she started off with fashion content. My wife loves fashion.
Mark Patterson: Mm-hmm.
Cree: Yeah, that's Jamie a passion of hers and she's really good at it. So she's able to monetize that. So for us, for myself, I just figure I'm looking for ways to look for ways to monetize. I've reached out to brands. I've definitely pitched stuff. I'm, Hey, this is this, but it's stuff that I actually can stand by. Right. I'm not going to just say, if people don't reach out to say, Hey, we'll pay you to use this product. And I'll say, I don't think I'm, have the audience for that. Or I don't think I am.
Mark Patterson: Mm-hmm.
Cree: I can't stick behind I'm not gonna just do it for a buck because then I don't know people like hey remember that gadget you used I don't remember because I don't use it I just put in the video one day I don't actually don't use that gadget but everything you see in the video I've used like you know and I'll be as transparent as I can so answer your question yes I definitely have intentionally trying to monetize by doing it a way that it's it's a way that I can stand by for as long
Mark Patterson: Yes, yes. I would love to double click on that. at what point did it make sense for you to start pitching, start reaching out, and then at what point did people start reaching out to you? Like talk to me about the type of content you were doing and like the numbers around maybe your following, engagement, all that good stuff.
Cree: So I started, so I would say as early as, even add some years to it, I think as early as around 2021, that's when I was still more so like writing a lot. been writing in a while, or more so having published in a while, I'm always writing. But that's when I wrote something and it was picked up by a publication and it was monetized and I was getting money from, like reads from views of the article. And it was actually going pretty well. was getting... nice little residual check every month, just a little deposit to my account. So I was like, okay, this is nice. just yeah. Okay, this is like, you know, like, residual funds, you know what I mean? Like, so passive income. But the but but that's that was my writing. And then moving forward, once I started to actually do like a lot of our video content, you know,
Mark Patterson: We like this. Yes.
Cree: people would reach out to me or people reach out to Janisha and it'll be brands that are like, hey, hey, we would like you to feature our glassware feature our, our like this alcohol specifically. And I was like, okay, let's do it. And we'll, you know, we'll talk about a price. It's not, there will be a price. And it might be just a gifting, which is fine too. But I'll say as early pitch early, the worst thing to say is no, or nothing at all. You know what I mean? Like you never know what a brand or company is looking for. And sometimes it just be getting it in front of them, just like pitch, put it out there. If you see something that you like, that's something again. Okay, my wife, I'll say, you know, I'll show her something like, ⁓ I love this, this ice maker from this company. She's like, ⁓ like reach out to him. I'm like, what? She's like, Tzatzito said it, like just ask, like say, hey, I would love to feature this in one of my videos. I'm like, ⁓ wow, like cool. And I'm not gonna say it works every time.
Mark Patterson: Mmm.
Cree: If I send out 10 videos, I might get a response from one. But that one was the one that sends something to me. You know what I mean? Like it works. So I think it's, don't think it's never, I don't think it was a following count. I think at that time, just to say I might've had 2000 followers maybe, but, of course followers do matter for the brands, but I'm saying you don't know what brand is looking for one followers at a time. You know what I'm saying? Like they might not want to make, they might want a micro, I mean a macro influencer. They might want somebody small and then.
Mark Patterson: Yeah.
Cree: You you can just build up your like build up your reputation.
Mark Patterson: I love it. ⁓ And so you say pitch early. I love how you mention like being clear about what you want to do and doing what's authentic to you and not just basically chasing a check. ⁓ Because to your point, it's that question of can you do this? Do you want to do this forever? I think then allows you to make content with longevity and content that is going to come from an authentic place. So balancing content that you're creating and now you've kind of got somewhat of a monetization strategy around it. What do you feel like really works for you as a creatorpreneur in terms of a process? you know, going from idea to hitting publish and then figuring out, you know, how you might want to even engage with your audience after to make sure our post performs well, like
Cree: Mm.
Mark Patterson: ⁓ What's the, I wanna say a day in the life, but almost like what's the, I'm imagining like a, what do call it? Like a conveyor belt or like ⁓ how they put together ⁓ the Model T in the factory. Yes, like how are you putting that together? Yes, that's it, thank you.
Cree: Yeah. Uh huh. Yeah. Each part that goes on down. I got you. I got you. The assembly line. Yeah. Gotcha. I got you. So, um, man, you know, I wish I could say it looks one way. I wish I could, which I can make it as simple as it does, but it changes the pins. Um, but I'll go around like a typical, like, or not typical, but one more recently. let's say it was, So we had a last Black History Month, right, last February, right? So for me, I love different spirits, but I definitely love Black-owned spirits and Black-owned companies. And I have a relationship with a few ⁓ that are really getting their names out there. So with that, I would think of, which ones do I have? Which ones do I like? Which ones can I get my hands on? If it's one that's I know someone that like I know the owner of that company like hey I know someone that or someone that works with that company I'll reach out to them like hey I'm thinking of a concept for a cocktail do you think they'll be probably give me a bottle I'm not even asking for money I'm just asking for the supplies yeah sure no problem and that's so for them that's a free feature for me that's a free bottle and also there's no strings attached really this is just building a reputation there isn't like a contract agreement this isn't a You need to post at this time. It's not that it's very simple. So I'll do that. And the thing is, but it opens up that conversation because maybe they do want to do something that's, we actually would love to feature you. And then that's you start talking, you know, but sometimes just, just, just open a relationship. So then I'll go from there. I'll get my supplies. And then from that, I'll then think, okay, well, let me, how can I make these cocktails and sense them around black history month? Right. So I'll be okay. Well, I this this whiskey and what's something that you know, like below a level good iced tea. All right, cool. What if I did like a, you know, peach or peach iced tea old fashioned? Okay, then let me see the meat drive now I got got a bunch of like cocktail books and stuff. I'll look through our research and flavor nodes and see them come together. Also see what's easy, like easy ish things that like my that I wanted to be something that my audience can get. I don't expect my audience to be mixologists or bartenders or people with a wide selection. Just things that are easy. So I make it maybe about four or five ingredients at max. Now I have about three cocktails, three. I have three good cocktails that I can stand by. I have a videographer that I film with for my content. I wish I could film and edit myself, but I wasn't gifted with that ability or at least that patience. So I'll contact my videographer. Hey, what's your schedule? Do you have time on the books? We'll book up a couple of hours.
Mark Patterson: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Cree: He's like, yeah, sure, we can do it. We'll come by. We'll film the whole thing, take a whole nice little day of it, film everything. To some people's surprise, I don't drink the cocktails afterwards because I'm still working technically. So I might store, I have ways of storing them for later. So I might store them for another day or something or give them to Janisha or whatever, but I don't drink them all the time. So pass those off and then me and him will talk and I'll be like, hey, you can get these to me by this day because I have this schedule. So then I'll build out my schedule. All let me post on
Mark Patterson: Okay.
Cree: I want to post on this day, this day, this day. I'll talk with Janisha because sometimes we might have like Mim blogs in the kitchen, which then we'll kind of work into that. Okay. Well, we're going to blog in the kitchen. That's posting this day. What that means I should post on this day and this day. I'm kind of trying to spread it out to keep active. And then my video, I don't forget everything to me. We'll go through editing process to make sure everything looks good. And then as he's doing that, I'm thinking of captions. I'm getting together the recipe, make sure the recipe is easy to follow.
Mark Patterson: Mm-hmm.
Cree: getting together cover photos, you know, kind of brainstorming some other things and then kind of just getting it out, like just having loaded up and posting them every once a week and just getting them out when I can. That's like the typical way I pretty much go about
Mark Patterson: Mm-hmm. And so you're posting directly in the platform or do you use a scheduler?
Cree: I post on platform. I do all my posting like directly in the platform myself. Yeah, I'm not using I know there are schedules, but I haven't just because I just I like my hands to be the last thing to touch before it's out. Like any any misread, anything that doesn't look right or also I'm right there to change it if something goes wrong while I'm uploading it because of a scheduler, you might let it do its own thing. But let's say there was a typo that you didn't look at or something in upload writing.
Mark Patterson: Mm-hmm.
Cree: You're not there when it posted. obviously busy. That's why you have a scheduler and you don't catch it. Then something you gotta fix later.
Mark Patterson: ⁓ I do want to dive in, I'm careful because I come from a school of thought where it's like, look, we ain't talking about what's happening in the pockets now. But I do think for transparency, just understand there are levels to this. ⁓ Really understand the business model behind how you set it up. So I'm curious if you'd be willing to break down because you talked about, I think you might be one of the first creators I've talked to.
Cree: Hahaha!
Mark Patterson: that works with a team specifically to create said content. So like you're outsourcing video for the recording and editing. that means, because if I know you based upon this conversation, you did the math. So that means ⁓ you've got the investment of what you're doing to produce the content. And ultimately, yes, there's some intentionality behind it, but if you're posting once a week,
Cree: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm.
Mark Patterson: you might have a level of investment and some of these might be branded, some of these might not be. So talk to me about the economics behind it. And if you're feeling willing, talk to us about like what you expect from brand deals as you are, because you're up here putting that level of investment upfront, like what are you expecting from brand deals now at the stage that you're in?
Cree: Mm-hmm. Okay, so I could talk a little something and, you know, allude to a few other things, right? So ⁓ for me to grow my platform and for me to be marketable, right? I have to put things out regardless. So everything I put out is not branded and it won't be branded, but there is, but there's always an opportunity for growth. So I say that, so even though, yeah, so though I have a videographer, you know, me and him kind of have to just own a retainer. like, this many videos for this amount, ⁓ that works for us, that cost works for us, and that can range. So you can probably give that number, anchor range, like, depending on your quality. If you can film yourself and you can edit yourself as a creator, like, Janisha does a lot of stuff herself. She's just gifted that way. I am not. ⁓ But so I have him on retainer, and so we'll make videos. for me, but now when I work with a brand, Depending on the brand, let's say it's like a higher, like a higher value brand. It depends on things like the numbers I'm looking for from them. It really depends, right? Because it's like, what are they looking for from me? How many posts are they looking for? How many story posts are they looking for? Are they looking for like, just, are they looking for like organic usage or are they looking for paid usage? Because if they're looking for organic usage, then they're not. You they're not necessarily going to get anything from it like initially but they're using paid usage then it's like well I'm gonna need you know, you got a total extra on top of there because you'll be getting some money ⁓ and Also like if they want exclusivity which I've done with so like I've done deals with brands who have said like hey once you post you can't post anything with a showing and liquor brand for 30 days after so then that like I said, right I I post regardless to build up my brand. So now you're kind of hindering my building. You got to pay for that. So then I'm like, so I'll have that included too. Like, Hey, my exclusivity rights for every 10 days is this cost, you know, like, and then I'll add that in to on top of whatever the base rate is. So it's kind of hard to give an exact number to be super honest, cause it really just depends on what the deal works out. But I think what's important is, and like you said, I've done that. So do the math is important to to from looking for to quantify everything. And what I mean by quantify everything, quantify your time, like figure out what's your hourly rate as a creator, just in general period for you to do something. It doesn't matter if it's just showing up. It doesn't matter if it's recording. What is your hourly rate as your base? And then you add everything on top of it. Like, OK, hey, we want you to make a cocktail. We want you here. The rest we want you to.
Mark Patterson: Mm-hmm.
Cree: come up with a concept you want me to come up with a concept that's more time now if you give me a concept there's less time because you're just telling me to do but if you're giving me a I mean you caught there's more time stack that on top okay well now we need you to get the ingredients you need me to get the ingredients that's another cost I'll get them but you gotta pay for them that on top okay great but then now we need exclusivity we don't need you to post anybody for 60 days after you post us oh that's now that's my facility clock that we're adding that in as much time as and that's where you kind of are just building out. So I can say I've done deals from to give range. I've done deals with some companies where I've only charged them a couple hundred bucks, like literally 200 bucks, smaller brands. I might've known the person that was working with them. And I was like, yeah, sure. I'll do this. Cause again, I'm going to film anyway. I like the product. Let's go for it. And I have some that were like, Hey, we need a quick turnaround, but it's a bunch of clauses. We need you to do this. We need you to do that. It's a big brand. I don't know them personally, it's all business. And that can go up to the like four, five digits depending on the deal. know, can hit to like that 10,000 mark depending on exactly what the deal is. And again, that comes with a lot more red tape and a lot more work arounds, but you know, it's worth it. So it really ranges, I can say, but it's all about, like I said, I think my main thing is to quantify as much as you possibly can and that makes it easier to work your deals.
Mark Patterson: Mm-hmm. Thank you for giving us the lay of the land there. ⁓ Final question before we go. I really want you to speak to the early version of Cree, who was thinking about like, you know what? Maybe I want to speak to that year gap between when you first did the Men Belong in the Kitchen and then you decided at some point, you know what, let's just really give this a shot. Like that person who's on the fence. the younger you who might be kind of like him and Han if you will, talk to him and what would you tell him based upon what you know now and what you have experienced today.
Cree: Mm-hmm. ⁓ man, I'll say... Be yourself. I was telling him to be yourself to... Do what you love and... Don't be afraid to take the leap. That was probably the main thing I was saying. Don't be afraid. That was probably the main thing. Don't be afraid to take the leap. That's something I struggle with sometimes is I have trouble starting because I worry about stopping. I know that might sound weird, but I get so worried. Yeah, I don't want to start because if I don't finish, then I just wasted my time. So I might as well not even start. But I think, and again, I guess in the final question, I'll give a final shout out.
Mark Patterson: ⁓ does it?
Cree: Janisha's really good with that. She's not that woman is like I don't think she's fearless cuz my baby be having fears but she gets through it but like she can she knows how to like just do like she's such a doer doer I'm a thinker I think a lot of more strategizing the the the theologic like she's like a doer so with her she's like I just give her an idea hey I'm thinking we're doing it okay let's do it we're stopping us so I say to my own So take the leap. Just do it.
Mark Patterson: Yes, other than I think a titling this, marry well, I think that is a ⁓ fitting note to end on. It's like, just do it. Take the leap, do what you love, believe in yourself. ⁓ Thank you so much, Kree, for joining us this week. You are welcome any time on the Convo Room podcast. And I just want to thank y'all for joining me again this week. And I cannot wait to scroll through the feed and see you again pretty soon, bro.
Cree: Hahaha! I appreciate it.
Mark Patterson: Until then, wait, before we go, need to make sure, because we haven't said it, let everybody know where they can follow you, and then we'll be out.
Cree: No problem. Okay, you can follow me on Instagram my main platform at Cree A Moore ⁓ and you can also follow at cocktails and Moore that is my strictly cocktails page and between those two you'll see everything that I have as far as writing cocktails and then belong in the kitchen new episodes coming soon
Mark Patterson: Yes, sir. Have a good one, bro. Appreciate you so much.
Cree: You too. Appreciate you.
