Creativity, Connection, and Building Something That Lasts | Alex Sanfilippo

Podcast Mechanic: Yeah, I think that's I think that's super well said. I don't know if I've had like the understanding for most of even my adult life to agree with that, but I I now firmly can say that like yeah, that's something I believe in as well. It's it's already there. It's a matter of us c carving it out, finding it. It's i it was placed there before we were even born. I'm Jay Ak. And I'm Shah Kore. And this week, we couldn't be more pumped to have another remarkable creator in the room. Community builder, public speaker, podcaster, host of Podcasting Made Simple, founder of a platform that has reshaped how independent shows find their guests and friend of the pod, Alex San Filipo. Welcome to Conversations with the Creator. Appreciate you guys. Thanks so much for having me on. I'm really excited to spend this time with you guys today. Appreciate you, brother. Appreciate you. So let's get right into it, man. So there's this story about you being a 10 year old kid selling golf balls in the neighborhood where you lived at the time. we could say that was probably your first introduction to like this builder instinct. So what did you learn about yourself as that 10 year old kid that still holds true to this day? Man, going going back here, it's funny you bring that up. I I love that, man. you know what? When I think back to that age, obviously it's easy to reflect on it now, but at that point in my life, it was actually a pretty key thing that happened. Like I was really self aware as a 10 year old kid. Like that's when I started selling golf balls in the neighborhood. But leading up to that, there was a couple of years where I was again becoming like kind of self aware and realizing like, we're individuals, we've all got our our things we're good at. And I would I was one of the rare kids at that age that would not describe themselves as creative. Which is if you think about it, it's kind of weird because if you there's all kinds of data on this, but without getting too deep into that, n something like ninety-eight percent of kids that are the ages of eight to ten say that they're creative. And so I wasn't that weird two percent that would tell you, like, no, I'm I'm not creative and I'm not good at really anything. Which like I wasn't I didn't have like a weird complex or anything like that, right? Like I just hadn't found my thing yet. And the opportunity presented itself to like start selling golf balls across the street from the neighborhood I lived in, there was a golf course and All the parents told all the kids in the neighborhood, the only rule is don't go on the golf course. And you all can guess what every kid did, right? Which is book it straight for the golf course, right? Well, one day I found a golf ball. There was no golfers around, so I picked it up and two minutes later a golfer comes riding by. He's Hey kid, what kind of golf ball is that? And I like, a title is pro v1. And he's like, I'll give you three dollars for it. And I was like, Deal. And at that moment, I I feel that I I found the fact I I found the reality and the truth is I was creative. It just didn't look like other people's creativity at that point. at that age, kids started getting into music. There were some that were artists, some were all kinds of things that kids my age were doing. And then I was probably the only one doing something that felt more entrepreneurial. But I realized like that was my art. That's how I could be creative. So creative solution was how do we find more golf balls? How do we figure out how to sell them? Right. And again, as a 10-year-old kid, that might be like a little bit of a a strange thing to say. But when I think back about it, there are so many leadership and creative and entrepreneurial lessons I learned. at that young age, how to negotiate, how to get kids motivated to to like help out around the neighborhood, right? Like to to find more golf balls, like all those things. And so I look back at that 10-year-old kid and a lot of the foundation of who I ended up becoming, as silly as it might sound, started at that point. Yeah. That's beautiful, man. I even say in my book about how I believe that we're all born with that. greatness in us, that greatness, DNA s like we don't I don't think you like go to find greatness. It's already in you. It's about just like realizing it and discovering that greatness within you. You know what I mean? Yeah, I think that's I think that's super well said. And that's something I I agree with. I don't know if I've had like the understanding for most of even my adult life to agree with that. But I I now firmly can say that like, yeah, that's something I believe in as well. It's it's already there. It's a matter of carving it out, finding it, right? It it's it was placed there before we were even born, right? It's there. It's just finding it. Yeah. So you took a long road to podcasting. you tried a few paths, right? You did like real estate tech, which I I have no idea what that is. I didn't know that was a thing. you you were aerospace exec and you did a few other things. What did turning all those different corners kind of like teach you before you actually found podcasting? Yeah. So there were there was all kinds of things. again, I I think most creatives try a lot of things. But when you think of an entrepreneur, it's like they don't really try as much. But that's that's my creativity, is doing that. So yeah, I sold golf balls as a kid. And then after that, I started selling things on eBay, like right when that became a thing. I was like one of the first people on there. I was selling like action figures and toys and stuff like that, right? Like flipping them and stuff like that. And I thought that was fun. I got good on computers, which led me to be able to do a be part of a startup that was doing real estate, all the MLS listing, getting houses listed, making virtual tours of homes, like very common things now. But going back at that point, it it wasn't yet. And so all these things kind of repelled one thing to the next. And don't get me wrong, I had plenty of failures along the way and stuff that didn't work. But what I was doing was just being creative in the way that I knew how to, which happened to be business. And so yeah, so I started golf balls. And I'd say ended like at a corporate job. So yeah, I did a lot of entrepreneurial stuff, but landed corporate and it was in the aerospace industry. Four listeners think it was something interesting. I wasn't an astronaut, wasn't a skydiver, wasn't a fighter pilot. Like you gotta give that disclaimer, right? Like I was none of those things. I was working behind a computer and I I started as like a part-time guy, but I actually really loved corporate just like I like liked entrepreneurship until the company I was at went public. And so I was actually part of the team that helped it go public. So it was it was a small, privately owned company. And it weirdly enough, like for an entrepreneur to work in a corporate environment like that, I worked there for 15 years. A lot of people say, that's very odd. But I learned how to flex my creative muscles as an entrepreneur inside of an organization. So I just kind of had these like a little bit of guardrails, but not much. I had a lot of creative freedom. And again, until the company went public. And I'll never forget that when the company ended up going public, I actually, for the first time, maybe not the first time, but one of the first times, I got in trouble for something. And it wasn't something bad. I did something really good for the company, but it was considered a bit risky. And I remember I reported directly to CEO. I was on the C suite as well. And I was telling him what I did. And he's like, Man, we can't do that stuff anymore. And I was like, what? This was huge for the company. What do you mean we can't do this anymore? He's like, it's just too risky. We've got a board. We've got shareholders. We've got reporting we got to do. And like, if that wouldn't have worked, like someone would have gotten fired. And I was like, okay. And weirdly enough, this was probably my 13th year of that job. I remember leaving that. my my CEO's office for the first time and and telling like thinking to myself, like, I think I'm done. Like like I'm not not that I wasn't gonna apply myself and try, but I realized I think it's time for me to move on the next venture because I can no longer be creative the way I like to here. Like I felt more like a cog in the system. And listen, we built it was a multi billion dollar organization. So it's like nothing to there was no like it was very positive what happened. Just someone with me with the skill set I had, I was no longer needed or could really be used the way I wanted to. And there was that two year gap. So aga again, like all these things, I I just tried a whole bunch of side hustles. So I was like, okay, I want to get out of this, but I I become like a house cat, you know, like I can't go outside anymore. Like I don't I don't know what to do. And so I just started trying a bunch of things. I did some some public speaking. I did some coaching. I did some web design stuff because that looked intri I mean, I tried all the things, right? And ultimately that's what led me to podcasting, is I I started some doing some podcasting stuff because it looked fun. I did have a plan for it, and I ended up really loving that. And we fast forward a couple years later, that's ultimately what what brought me out of corporate and end up jumping into the podcasting industry full time. But it it was it was like very low low pressure. I didn't put the pressure on that this has got to get me out of my job. It was more so I'm trying a bunch of things, and one of these things is gonna I'm gonna like it and it's going to work, right? Like it's gotta be that combination. And again, podcasting ultimately ended up being what I fell in love with and really wanted to pursue. And and that's what happened. It took a couple years, right? So was year fifteen when I left that corporate job to pursue it full time, but it was it was really cool the way it happened, you know, like a a bunch of things didn't work and then finally something did and it was a great experience for me. That's pretty dope, man. Alex, just from speaking with you, I I don't even know if we've been talking five minutes yet, but I get a sense that you have a unique ability to connect with people and to connect people together. I believe podcasting is a great way to to exemplify that, you know, because you're you're sharing information, you're you're you know, it's an exchange of information. and then the fact that you're the CEO of Pod Match, a company that's designed to connect people, right? When did you realize that about yourself? along the way in corporate, I'd say that probably was it had to be a mentor that I had and I I can't even point it back to anybody because I've heard it a lot. But to your to your point, the connecting people, finding the synergies is something that I don't know if I can say came natural, but it is definitely something I've learned over the years and and it I I excel in it. And still this day, like I appreciate you even bringing that up. That's one of my things. Like i I I've just learned in my life, in my work, I'm typically not the right person for most things. But I've I've met enough people to know like, okay, hold on. I I can introduce the two of you 'cause I think that you all could actually do something together, right? Right. And not selling myself short is just no one's all things to all people. And I I think it takes a couple things. One a level of humility to know that like, no, you're not gonna be the guy for everything, but that's okay. And it's better to introduce two people to go further without you than with you, right? so it takes a level of humility. But two, some some real awareness. Like you you actually have to be like aware. Like you can't just like, you both do podcasts and you'll get along great. I have to think, okay, no. Chadcore does it this way. Jack does it that way. Is there any real connection there? You know, I got to think about it. And if you are like total opposites in the way you like to do things, I'm then I'm not gonna make the introduction just because there's some little piece that's connected, right? I'll be like, no, no, no, these two would actually get along great. One of my favorite things that's happened over the years is being able to introduce people, then at becoming business partners or super close friends. Like I love that. And again, it takes it takes that awareness and it takes some humility where you're just not the person who's gonna be the center of all things. but I I've always enjoyed that. Like since it was kind of called out of me, much younger, I'm going back to my was it probably two thousand six, two thousand seven is when people started calling that out of me. I've done it at church, I've done it in my corporate life, and I've done it in my personal life as well. And it's it's definitely a central point of who I am is just like really I I don't know the word, but maybe just being intuitive of what's happening around me. Like being aware of what's going on and and making the connections wherever I see fit. So calling back to like Being kind of restrained and knowing that that time when you were in your CEO's office and that was the last time that you were gonna be there because you felt kind of tightened on how much creativity now after you had that interaction that you could actually expound and and begin to like process that. So after years of searching and having something finally click. What was different about podcasting that kind of like made that thing the one that stuck? A f a few things. one, going back to to Shad Kore, like what you said, like that I ability to connect people, it was like it was a it's a very connective type of space. Right. Like the three of us, like we're we're now connected, right? Like we've got this meaningful experience we're doing today. Like this probably won't be the last time we find something to do to do together, right? Like and I I like that element of it. Is it it requires people to do stuff together. Now there's there is a solo podcast world and stuff like that. That's just I don't like to listen to podcasts that are solo episodes. I don't like to be far like I don't really enjoy doing them. I do a little bit myself, but I prefer like a conversation. If I'm gonna be driving somewhere, it's what I want to hear. And so there's that connection piece. And I think, Jayak, to answer your question there, the first time I realized that like, I could have really, really great conversations with people I don't know that are super interesting that are very much so aligned with me with the way that we think, the way we act. Like and it's just we do it for fun, then we share it with other people and and they learn from it. I'm like, in my head, I was just like, is there anything better than this? You know, like I was like, there can't be. This has got to be it. And so again, going back to like doing some coaching stuff, which I enjoyed, doing some speaking, doing some web design, handful of other little things I tried as well, did some writing. All that stuff was fun, but it lacked what we've been talking about, this connection piece. And when I found podcasting, I fell in love with it because I was like, man, this is This is this is scratching the itch of like being connected with with people. And I'll never forget the first time I interviewed somebody that was out of the United States specifically. Like I'm I'm in Jacksonville, Florida, and the guy was in Singapore. And I was like, What? Like, no way. Like this is wild, you know? Like, and we did an interview together. It was a great conversation. That was like 2000, I don't even know year, eighteen maybe. And I still am in contact with that person. We we've connected handfuls of times since then. And it's like that connection never broke. And and so to me, like that was what made podcasting stand out. It was like, man, I can really connect people together. And the same time, it gave me the ability to flex my true creativity, which really on the business side is just having it, it's it's hashing out ideas and putting them into practice. And getting to do that in real time with people for me was like a really fun experience. So podcasting, I I just knew it was the thing. Like as soon as I start got into it, I'm like, this is this is it. Like I love this. And I I just knew like if there's a way to do it through podcasting. Leaving my corporate job, this is how I'm going to do it. And so I really start to pursue that. I love that, man. I love that. You said so much that I connect with, brother. Like we on this show, me and Jay talk all the time about just loving the beauty of collaboration. Like this this show is better because we're doing it together. You know what I mean? And we're collaborating and then we're connecting, like you say, with strangers from all over the world. But now you're connected. Like you say, once that conversation is had, it's like, man, well I'm connecting. And I agree. I don't think this will be the last time we connect because I just like you were saying before about that synergy, man. You you you are peoples because you talk that same language, brother. And I definitely connect with that. So appreciate you. Salute to you, man. When you were learning what kind of hosts you wanted to be building a podcast and made simple. From the ground up. What did you have to figure out about yourself in order to find your voice in that particular space? There's a lot here. The big one was getting out of my own way. Like I I I didn't realize it, but I struggled with a a bit of perfectionism, which I think that most of us don't know it until we till we know it, right? Like and so it took me nine months to launch the show. And there were there's there like you all know, like Yeah, you can put in planning and you can do everything till you're blue in the face, but nine months is a long time. Like it doesn't take that long to produce like a really high quality show. And it's because I wanted everything to be perfect. I wanted the domain. I wanted the logo. I wanted this. And I realized that toward the end of the nine months, I ended up launching it in a way that felt rushed because I realized, I got like two years left of work before I'll launch this thing. I'm like, but what am I doing? You know, like so I I launched it and it's it's it's funny because you mentioned the show title Podcasting Made Simple. It was called creating a brand when I launched, but I didn't even know I was using the wrong name until I got into it. And I think for a lot of us, again, like what I learned was, okay, you need to get out of your own way. Like start talking to the people that you want to talk to, start serving the people you want to serve, and you'll kind of figure the things out along the way. But instead, again, so many of us creators, we get in this analysis paralysis section where we're just like, well, if the logo looked a little different, I bet it'd be better. And the the reality is like the the little details that that we notice. As the creator of something, the other side doesn't ever notice it. I can think of one experience that still makes me feel like crazy when I hear it. I met a listener like randomly. I don't even remember where, but someone listened to my show, which is like, no way, this person like recognized me, knew my show. And I was like, is there an episode that you really love? And they told me an episode that was like my least favorite episode. And the reason is is because the quality of the audio I thought was so bad. Cause guy was he had to use his phone, he had a bad connection. And I I was so like ashamed of the episode. I was like, there's nothing I can do to fix this. You know, like it's just it but the content was good, so I had to post it. And so he's t tell like the show, and he starts pointing out like things he liked about it. Like clearly a real listener. I was like, man, I'm sorry the audio was so bad in the show on that episode. And he goes, Huh, well, I didn't notice that, and then just keeps on talking. And then I'm like, man, I feel like I stumbled over my my my words a little bit. I was kind of it was hard for me to hear him. He's like, well, I didn't get that either, and then kept on going. And finally at the end of like walks away. I'm like, What? What was that? You know, like I like I was the one who had like I was in the wrong headspace about the the value is in the the content, not the production necessarily. Now have pride in what you do, of course. Don't just make it sloppy for the sake of being sloppy, but you're your own worst critic. This guy didn't even notice any of the flaws that made me almost not post the episode, right? And so I think the biggest lesson I learned along the way was get out of my own way and don't let it be perfect. Like launch and get out there and see what serves and adjust in real time. That's ultimately how I end up creating an entire brand around what I what I've done. Like that's how Podmatch ultimately came into being. The business side of the podcast was just me listening and building in real time. And that kind of like helps me feel more confident in like what we're doing, because at the beginning of our conversation, when you came on and you talked about the trailer and how and I could tell how enthused you were about how you reacted to the quality of the trailer. So I feel good. Thank you about that. Yeah. So before we talk about, you know, the idea behind PodMatch, there's a post that you made on LinkedIn few weeks ago. On March 10th, 2020, I had an idea that stopped me mid workout. I ran inside, quickly erased everything on my wall of whiteboards, then opened a dry erase marker and started writing. I covered every inch of all of my whiteboards with words and mock ups. In the bottom right hand corner of my last whiteboard I wrote the following words like a dating app, but instead of matching people for dates, we connect podcast hosts and podcast guests for interviews. So seeing that there was a gap in how podcasters and guests found each other, was your prompt to start working on a solution? What was the moment you realized PodMatch actually needed to exist? Yeah, it's a it's like a month before I wrote all that down on the whiteboard. like like any creator, like we don't always have the answer instantly, right? And I I couldn't figure it out, but I knew that was the problem. And I was speaking at a podcasting conference, which Jay, maybe that's where e we even met for the first time was at Podfest, right? Or I we we go to a lot of podcasting stuff, right? I think that was the one we like first met at. Yeah. And I've reconnected many times. But so anyway, that was where I was at. And it was right before the world shut down in twenty twenty. There was like two thousand people there. And at that point I had done well enough in the podcasting space to be on a lot of the stages. And you know, like going back, you know, I I mentioned I I I did some public speaking for a little bit. And it's funny, like you could consider that like a failure going back because it's not what I ended up doing. But it I used it later because I got back on stages when I started doing a lot with podcasting. So it was like kind of interesting how like I was like, I don't really want to do this. It's not working. It's expensive and I don't know if I can make it as like a full-time public speaker. Well, fast forward, right? I'm on stage again and and and able to present. Like I had some training. I knew what I was doing. And so that day I remember when I was getting off stage or getting ready to get off stage, I was right before a break or the end of the day. I can't remember, but there's about 2,000 people there. And I just said, hey, if any of you could give me just one minute, I just have a question for any podcaster in here who's willing to answer just like a random question. I'm also love to give give you a high five handshake or hug, hug, whatever you want. Right. And I'm really grateful, like a bunch of people lined up. And because it was the end of a the day or the end of at least till lunch or whate whichever it was, like hundreds of people lined up. And I just had pen and paper in hand and Through my podcast, which was more on the entrepreneurship side before it became about podcasting, my brain evolved, right? Like get it out there and figure out what you need to do. But at first, it was actually me learning how to to leave a nine to five job to become a full-time entrepreneur. I I learned there's four steps in this. And so step one, find an area of passion, which for me became podcasting. Step two is to get into that community. I was speaking on stage. I was going to the conferences, right? Step three, this is what I was doing in that moment, which was find a simple problem that that community is struggling with. And so I just asked, like when they'd line, be like, Hey, great to meet you. Thanks for being here. Hey, what's something that you're struggling with in podcasting right now? And that day I heard a lot of things, but the common thread that I heard was, hey, I'm having trouble finding the the right guest for my show. Like I can find people who want to be on it. Yes, tons of people, right? But I can't find the right person, or it takes me a long time. Or once I find them, it's a lot of administrative work. And so I kept on hearing these things. And that made me realize, like, okay, that's the problem. And the fourth step of that process I learned along the way was to offer the fastest possible solution. And so I went home that day with my my p paper, like it was a bunch of things I heard, but a hundred people said finding the right guest. And so I went home not really knowing to do with it. And so I I just kind of thought about it. And I was whiteboarding it out occasionally, but just kind of hit my head against the wall. And then that one day, that post that you read, that was me finally, March tenth, twenty twenty. Like it just all hit me at one time. And so for me, like I'm a person of faith. I feel like God just gave me that download the right time and wrote it all out. Picked up my phone and I c I text a friend of mine and just said, Hey, like later today when you're off of work, he was a he's a developer. I'm not a developer. I was like, I'd love to get some advice from you if if I could. Just give me five minutes. And that night I called Jesse Hunter, who became ultimately became one of the three co-founders of PodMatch. And I pitched the idea to him. I was like, Do you know somebody who could work on this? He's like, I'll do it. I was like, What? No, like he's a busy, like, he had a huge job, like big dog guy. And he's No, this sounds, this sounds like a winner, man. He goes, I'll do it with you. I was like, Okay. So We all draft up paperwork. It was me, him, my wife, Alicia. We draft up paperwork. We put five thousand dollars into a bank account and hit the ground running literally that same week on starting to actually develop what was just on whiteboards at that point. Man, you said you said a lot of key things right there. One of the things that really made my antennas go up is you say you're a man of faith, and I am as well. And in what we know about being men of faith and what God instructs us to do is to make things plain, right? And put it out on tablets. Meaning in today's terms, write it down. And you wrote it down. And I believe it seems like a simple thing, right? But a lot of times that's the next step in realizing whatever dream you have, whatever goal you have, is just literally write it down. Type it whatever, but You have to see it, right? To make it more real than just an idea in your head. So can you expound on that a little bit? Cause I think that's I'm I'm glad Jay brought that up because that's so important that you wrote it down. Now it becomes a little bit more real than just an idea in your head. Yeah. The the most practical way to mention this is like we've all had ideas when we're getting ready to go to bed and you're like, that's good. I'll I'll I'll think about that more tomorrow morning. You wake up the next morning and you're like, I know I had a good idea last night, but I don't know what that idea was or what it was related to. Right. It's because our our brains are not made for it's not made for storing things. It's made for for quickly just passing information along. Right. There was that there's a famous productivity expert, David Allen is his name, and he said, Your your head is a crappy office. Like it's not made to like store stuff, right? It's just like quickly, okay, let's let's go from my brain can say this is good. Now my hand can write it down. There and there's something that that makes it real when you do that. And so for me, I still like I still have a whiteboard. Like I'm not a corporate guy anymore. So I don't have like a wall of whiteboards, but I still have a whiteboard. It's on the side over here. And if there's something like really serious I need to do, I will actually write it down or I'll grab pen and paper. As much as I enjoy typing and stuff like that, there's some connection for me that happens creatively when I can actually physically feel like I'm the one, like it's it's coming from my hands, right? Right, right. And so in that moment, I I I just I let my creativity just flow. And like writing out of those whiteboards, like when I when I think back to it, I can remember feeling like I was writing for one second and I took a step back and I was like, whoa. I've probably been writing for 30 minutes and it didn't, I didn't even realize it. But now it's all like, like to your point, like a tablet. Like it is it is it is in stone. It is here, right? Like it is, it's not going anywhere. And of course I took pictures of it just in case, I don't know, I don't know who would have come over and erased it, but just in case I like, I got a picture of them, like this is good. But I just think there's some power in that. And I think that it it lets your creativity expand because I if I would have just written down like in one little section like the the last words I had, I'd miss the whole process of me like getting my head around what that meant. And yet the end of it, it like a dating app, a Kinex podcast host and guest for interviews instead, like that's at the core of what it was, right? But all those other things were required for me to really be able to wrap my mind around it. And so for me, like I I write every single day. I still do have a I have a journal, I have a planner. I write every day because I I believe creativity is a muscle. And we've got to be able to flex it. And so I want to continue practicing that on an ongoing basis. Beautiful. Can I ask you something about another creative kind of outlet that you have that has nothing to do with anything corporate or business or anything like that? I love it. Let's go. Can you talk about your meme making obsession that you that you may or may not have, that I may or may not have read somewhere? you make memes as a creative outlet. What does that give you that building Podmatch doesn't? This is totally left field, but I'd like to hear your your thoughts on it. You say it's left field. I actually feel like this stuff is connected though. Like we've got to have fun in what we do. And I'll be real, like the bigger pod match gets, which I am so like God has blessed it. I'm grateful for it. We have put a lot of work into it. It it was reminding more of my corporate job, right? And so we've got to have some way to it to to interject fun into it. So for me, like I love making memes. with my podcast episodes. There's a whole team that does the podcast side of things for me now. So like I'm not as involved. I still keep myself involved in that side because I never want to lose touch for what it's like to be an independent creator. But a lot more a lot more of it continues to be like Alex, this this person will handle this now. They'll handle that now. It's like okay. And the one thing I won't give up, I'm like, well I want to make the funny image for it. And I just think it's hilarious. Like I don't use any AI for or anything like that. I just go do it myself. I I can't even think of the name of the website. It just lets you put words on funny pictures. And for some reason I laugh while I do it and I am so excited to post it. Like I don't even mind if it reaches anyone. And that's mostly for me. And so it's it's just it's a different side of my creativity. Yes, like I have the business creativity, I have the entrepreneurship side, but at the same time, I want to have fun and I want to do something that I can maybe connect the two like very loosely, but it fuels a different type of creativity. if we think about creativity being a muscle, as I mentioned. It'd be like me going to the gym and doing legs every single day and never working my arms. Right. Like maybe I'm maybe I'm dispositioned to do legs, right? And then maybe that's just like what gets the strongest, what gets the biggest for me. And then I'm gonna go work my arms, which actually it all works together. It's the same body, right? So sometimes you gotta mix up and do something a little bit different. And for me, that's that's just a different piece of it. So I always I just I enjoy it. And it reminds me, like, hey, at the end of the day, like I want to be having fun. I don't want to get to the end of this thing, whenever that is, right? And be like, who man, that was a lot. I'm drained. I want to be like, I had a blast. Like, not every second of every day, right? There's the work that has to be done, but I had so much fun. And so I remind myself regularly, like, what am I doing that's fun? Because I have found the fastest way to grow and extend your creativity is do something that for you is just life-giving and really enjoyable and really fun. Man, Alex, you know, hearing you say that, it just it it reminded me of this video I just saw recently. It was a video of Jill Scott and some of her crew. And I guess they came upon a fire hydrant that was bl shooting water out across the street. And they all get out and they like, okay, on three, we're gonna run through it. And they did, and they ran through the water, and you could just see the joy on their face. It was like they were kids again. And I don't know why that that that well just watching that did so much for me because it's it was a reminder to have fun, like you say. Whatever it is you're doing, I mean, what what's the purpose if you're not having fun with it? Like you say, there's the work that's got to be done. But at the end of the day, especially as a creator, I think that's the essence of why we do what we do. Yeah, I think this has been one of the hardest lessons for me to learn. So I don't want to make it sound like I just like woke up and I'm like, I'm gonna make sure it's fun all the time. I I I come from a family that's a bit of like workaholics and w we we do the hard work. Like I've always been that way. And I have to remind myself that fun is an important part of the process. And I didn't learn this until years in. I remember even at one point losing my joy with being a podcast guest at one point, which to me is like leading up like before that moment, I don't even know how I got there, but was the most fun thing. And once again, like even doing this now, this is like this is like my this is so fun. Right. Like but I lost it for a little bit because it was like, I'm doing it a lot. And okay, I know I'm gonna get asked some of the same questions. And I I had this this moment to myself when I just learned from another great creative. Who was like, man, if you're not enjoying it, why are even doing it? Right. Wait a minute. Like I forgot. Like, yeah, it yes, it's work. This, this is my job, strangely enough, right? But man, this is if I enjoy it, have fun with it. And don't make it so structured and so like work on my answers and get them down to be perfect, which maybe you guys would appreciate that a little bit more. And so would your listeners. But like I just show up and be myself and have fun. And you know, I was actually listening to an episode, episode of your show, I really liked Evan. Whitehead, maybe was his last name. Yes. Came out on, it's funny, I remember the date. It came out on July 2nd, 2026. And he was talking about taking time to care for yourself and how it was something he never did, but like we have to learn to do that. And so for me, even in my work, I'm putting that into practice. Like one, I don't work 247 like I did at one point, but two, I'm taking time for myself, my own work. Like, yes, I am actually currently, as we're recording this, I am heads down on a project. I'm not supposed to do anything like this. But I'm like, man, I need to have some fun. And you know, like. I know these guys. I like these guys. This will be fun. And I'll probably come back even stronger on my less fun project, right? And so I'm take time for myself even inside my work. Which, by the way, for everyone listening, that episode was titled, I think, From Dope Addict Hope Addict. Yes. Seriously, check that out. Like totally worth it. Spoke to me. It was a great episode. Evan has a really cool story. After you're done with this one, go check that one out. But to again just reinforce the point is just like we got to take some time for ourselves even inside the work. So man, man. Yeah, I I have no words. that was just totally awesome. now getting back to the maybe, you know, part of whatever your project is, what does it feel like knowing that how many shows and conversations ha only exist because of Pod Match? It it's a surreal thing. When I got started, we we launched. So we had the idea on March 10th, 2020s when I wrote that out the whiteboards. And June fifteenth, twenty twenty is when we launched. I remember that same it may have even been the same day. If not, it was like the next day. But me, Alicia, who's my wife, the other co-founder, and then Jesse and his wife, the four of us went out, just to kind of celebrate and like let's let's like should we have fun? We were totally terrified, you know, we're like, I don't know what's gonna happen here. But I remember saying, like, wouldn't it be cool if like somehow we could help 10,000 people, like one day somehow, like get a connection through the platform. Like how cool would that be? At time recording this, I think we're near I I don't was it 300,000. I'd have to like look. but like hundreds of thousands. Wow. yeah at time recording this we're 190,000 right now. And that's just among the people that are actively using the platform right now. So all in all it's it's over three or four hundred thousand at this point. And I I'll be real like in my wildest dream 10,000 was the number. Like and I'm typically an overly ambitious entrepreneur. Like I always think like we're gonna this is gonna be crazy. This is gonna, you know, right? Like I'm all over the place with it. But for me, the the wildest dream I had was 10,000. And that I think still to this day, like that's important. Every one matters. Every one is an important number. But the fact is that it's done this much. I don't have words to describe how that makes me feel. I really don't. And I'm not gonna make some claim here that I cracked the code or did something excellent. Like, yes, we worked hard. Yes, we had an idea, but like, man, like it's beyond me. And like I don't know what your listeners believe, but I believe it's something supernatural that intervened and like helped make this happen without without me. Like again, I'm just a hands and feet in this is the way I'll describe it. I did the work, I showed up. I I will give myself credit for that. But beyond that, the result, I don't time myself to. But I am so grateful to be here doing this. And the fact that it's impacted that many people, like, I I just can't believe it still. Like it still blows my mind knowing that this thing is is serving at that level. Man, you know You hit it right on the head, and that's what I was gonna say. I s that you, you know, God say he'll give us exceeding abundantly more than we can ask or or dream. And you had a number and he put that super on your natural and took it way further than you could have imagined on your own. And that's what it's about right there, man. Just The fact that you were and are a willing vessel to serve. Cause that's really what you're doing at the core of what it is service. You're providing a service. That's what I believe we're all here on this earth to do. It's to serve, to serve one another, to be to be of service to one another. And that's what you have done with this amazing platform to where you had this number. That you would have been satisfied with and God's like, nah, I'm finna really blow your mind. You know what I mean? Yeah. Because I can work with your heart. I can work with your heart posture of service. That's what I'm looking for. That's what excites me to want to go ahead and put this super on your natural. So man, that's just salute to you, brother. That's good. Yeah. So what is next for Alex? What are you building towards, my brother? Yeah, I'm I'm doubling down on I'm doubling down on serving podcasters, which maybe sounds crazy. It's all I do, right? But like I I am committed to this, doubling down on it. And at time of recording this, like it it's a the online landscape is changing. Like everything online is shifting, changing, some good ways, some bad ways. But I want to make sure that we're there to to as you said, to to serve the people that we're serving and to to find out like l let's stay ahead of what's happening, right? Is there something that we can do to make it better, to improve? Like what what is that? And so for me, my foreseeable future. Is serving podcast guests and hosts and finding better ways to do that. so a a couple things that that are I guess are pretty practical to say is like one, I'm realizing there's more need for community. creators create better when they're with people. And for the first time ever, and I'm not not to talk too much about AI, but AI has made creation feel totally individualistic. Like we no longer feel like it takes a tribe anymore. It feels like it takes us and a machine. And for for that reason, a lot of creativity is is suffering or becoming less Authentic or less connectable, right? Like we feel like it doesn't feel like it once did. And for the person who's the the creative themselves, they feel like they've they're being replaced a little bit. And the reality is I don't think anybody is. If you let it replace you, it can, right? Like, but but that's up to you. And so for me, I'm just realizing like, we got to keep people together, right? Like what we do together changes now, right? But but we still need to be together. And so for me, like I'm doubling down on implementing a community element of PodMatch that's gonna be a lot stronger than we currently have. We kind of have something. were implementing something way stronger. And then beyond that, just continuing to to help people figure out how to achieve the goals they have, to help give them a roadmap. So less administration, less of the things that most creatives aren't good at, right? Like that whole back end stuff that like a lot of us just don't get excited about. Right. How can we make more of that stuff happen? Because I again to me that's the beauty of some of the tools that are out these days, including what we have with PodMatch is like we can streamline a lot of that. So you can just focus on the creative element. Cause the more you get to do that, the better the better what you're producing becomes. And so for me, that's what I'm doubling down on is really making sure we show up, helping people understand what's possible and help making sure they understand that like you don't need to do it alone. You can still be with people even if it looks different than it once did. And that's why I love Pie Match, because once I learned about it, you know, I I think we've been communicating with each other two, three years, probably a little bit longer than that. I've always introduced like when people were like, man, I need to find a guest for my show. How can I do that without going back and forth with emails and like, you know, people not understanding like and everything just being like on a dashboard where it needs to be and all the step everything is in line and step and like the thing that you do is like, okay, are you gonna be on my show? Cool. All right, let's record the show. Like and everything else in between is just like streamlined. So I appreciate PodMatch for that because it's been so helpful and it's the only guest to podcast or like exchange service that I promote at all. Thanks, man. Yeah. It means a lot here. Appreciate it. For sure. So how can our listeners and viewers connect with you? Yeah, the best place to go because all I do is podcasting everybody. if you're curious about podcasting at all, I I said a page that you can check out. It's podmatch.com forward slash free. That's podmatch.com slash free. It just has my nine favorite ideas, whether you're a podcast host, guest, or considering maybe being a host or a guest, it's got some ideas for you there and that's podmatch.com slash free. But the reality is, I mean, hang with these guys. Conversations with a creator. Like this is a new show that I that I'm listening to. You know, like for me it's a new show and loving what y'all do here. So I just recommend everyone to hang out with you 'cause I think they're gonna get a lot out of it. Man, appreciate that so much, my brother. Appreciate that. Of course, yeah. I'm Jayak and I'm Shah Cor. And this has been another dope conversation. Peace.