Leading with Teachers Shifting the Culture of School Observations

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Are you a school leader striding for excellence? Do you
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crave actionable strategies and fresh perspectives to navigate the challenges
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of education today? Get ready to take charge. This is
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Control Shift Lead, giving you something to control, something to
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shift your thinking, and something concrete to help you lead
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your school. With Jim Witchman of Inspired Edification and Adam
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Bush of AWB Education now on the forward Ed Network
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where they are advancing voices and shaping education. Your journey
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to empowered leadership starts now.
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All right, everybody, welcome back to another episode of Control
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Shift Lead. I'm Adam Bush from AWB Education. I'm thrilled
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you are joining us. That's officially March first, and to me,
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this is the best month of the year, especially for
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any of us who are being college hoops fans. I mean,
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we're just a couple of weeks away from selection Sunday,
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and the tension and the tension the air. It's real.
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I mean, it's just it's just here. I've joined as
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always by my co host, Jim Witchmand from Inspired Edification. Jim,
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before the show, you and I were talking a little
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bit about pizza, So yes, I'm going down that route.
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I know it's basketball month, and we talk about the
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stuff that we have during a watch party, all of
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that stuff. We're talking about pizza, and I want to
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get into that, like how we're going to fuel up
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for these for these few weeks here in March, and
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need to settle this kind of Midwest deep dish debate
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once and for all.
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But you know yet, Adam, I love Chicago and I
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love so many things about it, But Gino's East Pizza
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with a deep dish with the sauce on top and everything.
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It just it takes forty five minutes to get there.
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When he gets there, though, it's it's still amazing. Our
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guest today though, she's from out New York area, so
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I'm not I'm not. I'm not really sure all that
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it's going to go with. She's a deep dish person
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or she's got that New York style where that I
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think they folded it up.
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We're gonna learn more about that. What's what's your style, Adam, Well,
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I'll tell you it kind of depends on the mood
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i'm in. I like the deep dish stuff too, that's great.
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Sometimes I'm just not patient enough for it. Like you said,
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it takes forever to get to my table when I'm
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in the restaurant, So sometimes the thin crust is okay,
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and just get there. I just like pizza, to be honest.
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It just like pizza. I get it. I get it
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for sure. Well, you mentioned that we have a guest
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with us, and it's a very special guest with us.
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It's gonna help us navigate the madness of school leadership today.
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Joining us is Kanika Dorsey. And I know that you've
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actually had the pleasure of working a little bit with
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Kinika before, so I'll let you do the honors. Who
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do we have on the show today?
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Hey, thanks, Adam. I am so excited to introduce Kanika Dorsey.
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She is just an amazing human. First of all, Kaniki
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is currently a middle school principle of a beautiful, beautiful
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school with a proven track record of systems looking at alignment,
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knowing how to balance leadership when it comes to building
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capacity amongst not just their teachers, but with administrators in
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the building. Her deep focus on instructural outcomes because she's
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taken here at structural coach background with her to the
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administrative world, which is great. We're so happy to kick
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it off the month with Kinika. Hey, Kanika, thanks so
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much for being here. I appreciate it. And I got
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to ask the first question is deep dish or thin
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curse pizza?
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Hi, everybody, I'm a New Yorker. I can never say
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deep dish. I'm a New Yorker at it has to
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be great. Thank Krush. We fold a pizza, turn it
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sent aside, we eat it, so I could never say
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eat dish. I don't even know what that's about.
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Now.
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Is there just helped me out because as somebody who's
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never been to New York, is there like the place
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in New York that when I go there the first time,
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I've got to have that pizza?
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I would say, any corner pizza store is really great.
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Like you could walk down the street and you can
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find a corner and I would say it would be great. Also,
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there's a great piece of place I love in brook
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It's called Brooklyn's Pizza and it's in New Jersey. I know,
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I know it's not in New York, but it is amazing.
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I've been going there over twenty years, so it is one.
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Of the best Brooklyn pizza. Now, I wonder if you
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can get an nil deal out of there? For that
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shout out here on our program here. I don't know.
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Maybe let's see what I could do.
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And you gave me such a great open and I
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promise you I didn't pay you, but thank you for that.
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I appreciate it.
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That's awesome. Well, i'll tell you what we do have
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a lot to get to today with Kinika. I'm really
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excited to hear all of the great stuff that you
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got to share with our listeners here. So I've got
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a couple of bills to pay, So we'll be right
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back after this quick break. And just remember, listeners, and
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every episode gives you something you can control, something that
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will shift your thinking, and something that you can use
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to lead your school. So hang on, everybody, we will
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be right back.
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Welcome back. We're diving into our first segment of the
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day with our friend Kinika. In leadership. There are so
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many variables that we can't influence, but today we're focusing
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on what we can control, and today's control topic is
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feedback to staff. Kinika, you're at a larger building, so
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managing the flow of feedback to and from staff members
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and everybody else is a massive undertaking. What we want
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to hear is how you take the reins in this
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process to ensure that staff feels supported and seen. So
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chuck us through this a little bit.
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So you mentioned earlier about my background and instructional coaching,
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and that was one of the key positions that I had.
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It allowed me to work with staff to give them
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feedback and it was non evoluted, and I found that
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the non evaluatis feedback will help staffs grow and build
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a capacity because I was not allowed to give feedback
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because I wasn't an administrator, So I took that and
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when I became an administrator, I wanted to use that
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same model providing teachers feed You mentioned that I'm in
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New Yorker, so I remember when I was first learning
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how to drive. I had different drivers teach me, and
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I remember driving with my hand on the back of
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the seat, learning how to back up and not looking
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in the rearviewver. I remember driving too fast, not following
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the speed limit. I also remember not putting my hands
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on ten and two. But no one had given me
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that feedback until I got to the end and the
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person that was teaching me how to drive said, I
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think you need to go take a driving lesson, and
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I thought before, like you already taught me how to drive.
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Then I took a driving lesson and I needed five
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of them, and in that moment I was given immediate feedback.
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Put your hands on ten and two, don't blast the music,
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and put your hand behind the seat and look behind
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you when you're backing up. Makes you do the correct
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three point turn. And every time I did a driving course,
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it was feedback immediately. While I use that same model
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as an administrator, teachers need that feedback immediately to grow.
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Sometimes when you don't give that feedback to them or
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it's invaluative, things are done in the moment. So my
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team I make sure that they give the non evive
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to feedback. In the first month of school, I say,
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visit two classrooms, give them a glow and a grow,
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tell them something that they need to work on, and
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then we make sure that it's not written up, we're
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not sending any emails, we're not communicating through our clts.
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Is personal for that teacher. And then you go back.
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Can you visit again because that same grow that you
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gave them, you want them to make some improvements. You
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want teachers to know exactly what they're looking for. What
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you're looking for before you go in and do that observation.
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So it is so important that you make sure you
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control that. Also, you'll create an opportunity where there's trust
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and then teachers are doing something amazing and then they
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see you in the hallway and say stop by first period.
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I'm doing something. I want you to check it out well,
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or I'll get.
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Emails and students will say can you come out and
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see this project that we've created. And then you see
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that you've created this relationship with teachers and you're able
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to control those things because you want teachers to grow
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and build capacity. That's the point of the feedback is
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building that capacity so they can increase student achievement, increase
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instructional outcomes. And with that piece of you controlling it, it
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also gives some teachers some more time to say, hey,
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I'm doing something that's great. They know it's not evaluative.
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I'm walking in. I don't have a computer, i don't
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have a laptop. I'm really walking in with my two
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phones and my radio and a sticky note and a pen.
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And when I leave, I'm dropping the sticky note on
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the table. And they love the immediate feedback. So that
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is a piece of an administrator that you have to control.
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It's definitely important that teachers know that you're there to
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support them. And the minute we say is non evaluative,
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they open the door for us. Why the students greet you,
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you walk in, they're ready for you to come in.
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You know exactly what they're doing, and then if there's
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something that you want them to do to improve you
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make sure that you give them that opportunity. So before
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you get to that evaluation, they know everything you're looking for.
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You might say, I want you to do some checks
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so understanding, or I want you to pull a small
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group because somebody didn't get it. I need to make
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sure you have the learning target, so the students know
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exactly what it is that they need to know. Your
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warm up might be ten minutes, okay, I need you
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to bring that down a five and seven minutes all right, yeah,
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I do might be too long. You're doing twenty thirty minutes.
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How can you do a mini lesson? So when you
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give them that feedback, before you get to that first evaluation,
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they know everything that you're looking for.
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So there are no hidden agendas.
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There's nothing that's going to catch them although you know
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that there's some areas that they need to work on.
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They know exactly what it is that you're looking for.
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Yeah, I think that's what you've got. There's a lot
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there you kind of like grabbed onto. But what's important
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about it is it's a lot we can control. See
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what I heard. A lot of times we talk about feedback,
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but how do you get better? You started with grow
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and glow or glow and grow, not sure which one
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you said first, but you talked about celebrating and then
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here's some ideas, let's talk about this, we need to
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do this, and then I really a lot on emphasize
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the part where you said the teachers if they I've
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called this right, the teachers should know exactly what you're
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looking for every time you go into a classroom. So
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it's not a gotcha, and you didn't use the other
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G word. They're glow and grow versus gotcha. And I
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think that when it comes to what does it specifically
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look like in the classrooms, what are you looking for
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and for instruction? And then then you kind of slid
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over to they're going to invite you in because they
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want to celebrate with you. And I think that that's
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kind of like a what a wonderful way to build
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capacity but also build community within that they catch that
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glow and grow right versus the.
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Gotcha yes and I say that, I say, this is
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not and I got you. This is how kind of
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help support you? And when you use that language of teachers,
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they know you really need to help support them. And
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that's the type of culture that I want to create
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and to continue to create.
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Well, that's just I mean, that's creating trust. They know
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that you're there to help them get better, and it's
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a team effort. And I mean that's that's perfect. That's
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exactly what this should be. It's it's hard to do
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this on your own. We should all want to do
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this together to try to get the best that we
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can for kids. I got to chuckle how you started talking.
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You slid in there a little bit about the gradual
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release responsibility part of the I do we do or
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we do you do? And you talked about the length
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of time that I chuckle at that because one of
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the things I work with at a previous school was
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I would go in and then time teachers because they
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would ask me, and I would write it on the
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note and i'd walk away first. They were kind of
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worried about is it's evaluative because it might go a
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little longer. I'm like, dat, it's not for me, it's
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for you. So I left it on the desk and
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left the room. And they knew their professionals. They know
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what they need to do with the data and so forth.
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They didn't need any handholding of babysitting. They just needed
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the numbers. And it sounds like kind of look what
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you're talking about doing right there with that, And.
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I would like to say that it does take some
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time to do so it pushes an administrator back when
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they are trying to meet their deadlines. But the most
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powerful thing is to be able to build capacity and
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help teachers grow and so always work it.
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Yeah, you're right, because I do hear that from other
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people to like, I don't have time for walkthroughs. I
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don't have time for the pieces of feedback. And I
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get it. It's a busy job, but that's the stuff
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we need to be doing because otherwise the impact that
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we can have it's minimal. I mean, it really is.
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We're just putting out fires this at that point, that
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stuff that you're talking about right, there is how we
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can really build forward with our staff.
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And it's immediate.
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Teachers need to know immediately what it is that they
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need to work on, and so that part of the
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process continues to help them.
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Yeah, I really think this is such a great reminder
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of why intentional systems matter. And when you're in the
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system of the sides you are is the sides of
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the building and everything, and the number of children you
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have in there, it definitely matters. Hey, we're going to
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step away listeners for a quick commercial break, but stick around.
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We're about to shift our mindset on how often the
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feedback should actually be happening, and we'll be right back
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after this the Shift segment with our friend Kanika.
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All right, we are back and it is time for
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our Shift segment, where we challenge the status quo and
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look at things through a different lens. Today we're talking
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about the frequency of feedback and Kenika, often in education,
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feedback is a word that well, frankly, it triggers anxiety
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for people because it just happens so rarely, maybe twice
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a year during a formal eval But we want to
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talk about shifting that mindset to make feedback a constant
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breathing part of the culture. So why is this frequency
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shift so critical for school success.
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It's important because we have, and I'm just speaking in general,
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two or three evaluations that we have to do throughout
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the year, maybe one formal to informos and vice versa.
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But it's important that you shift that mindset so that
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we teachers know, I'm not just coming in on this cycle.
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Your door is open anytime, anytime, anyone could walk through
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that door and give you some feedback to help you grow.
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And it's a culture shift. It's really a culture shift
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to be able to influence the staff to know that
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we need them to buy into this, but also to
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know that this is to help you grow. So when
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three or four people come for a walkthrough, it's not
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anything random. They know, okay, they continue to teach. Nobody pauses,
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they don't come over, they don't ask you any questions.
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But it's shifting the mindset that if you provide teachers
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non evaluative feedback throughout the year and you continue to
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give them that cycle, they'll be so used to it
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that by the time you get to the end of
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the year, you will see them actually grow and make
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some improvements and things that they used to do. And
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somebody might say, I used to do this for ten
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years this way, but now that you continue to give
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them that feedback, they've now changed and they've adjusted and
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it made some impact. Because the most important outcome is
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student achievement. It is instructional outcomes for these students. So
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you have to be able to shift that mindset. And
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it starts with the leader sharing that at the beginning
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of the year that this is a culture that we
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have here in the building.
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You said right there, the important part here is student achievement.
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I mean that's the goal, right. I think sometimes we
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forget about that. We're working on trying to become better
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at instruction or I'm trying to become a better leader
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and whatever that is. The end result is still the
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same thing regardless it is, We're going to see better
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student achievement. That's the whole point.
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When I think about when you shift that mindset, you
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have these conversations and they start taking place in the
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CLT and you start talking about, Okay, we got this
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feedback as a team, here are the things we need
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to do. I got this feedback. Individually, What did you
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do to make some improvements with your students. How did
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you work to solve that problem? What activities did you
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put in place, like how did you support the needs
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of l's and students with disabilities, How did you support
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the gifted to make sure they continue to improve? How
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did you meet the middle of the road student so
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that way they can make improvements. And it really starts
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with the feedback that you give to teachers, because you
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could say, I'm going to look at this math classroom,
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all my math classrooms, and I want to see what
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activities you're doing with our students and disabilities, or I
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want to see what our activities you are doing without
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our students. When you continue to give that feedback and
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a specific and it's focused, now the teachers know what
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you're looking for. Now they can be able to make
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some adjustments and make some improvements. But it has to
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be specific. If you give and this is my personal opinion,
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a teacher three to four things to work on, five
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things to work on, it is impossible for them to
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work on that. Keep it to one or two. So
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that way they know with those two things, okay, I'm
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making some improvement. Now you go back and again, okay,
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you say I might find one or two on things,
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and you focus on one or two more things. But
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if you give a teacher five things to focus on,
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it is too many things and they will not be
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able to make any improvements.
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Yeah. Great, So I want to jump in and I
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want to jump in on that one because I just
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think that is where you know, I'm following you along
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and everything, and I hear frequency is valuable and non
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evaluative data, feedback is infrequent, becomes just kind of what
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you do and when you state it up front and
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then your actions follow your words. Great. The part that
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I think is the most that I grab most from
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this is got my thinking a little bit more is
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you talk about the frequency and so forth, but you
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focused on specific strategies and specific activities that you're giving
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feedback on. And then when they come together in their colt,
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which I'm assuming is there, I could make group or
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their content area group or a grade level group. Now
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you're also talking about, hey man, we don't want to
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overload just one to two straight things. We want to
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touch based on whether it be on their strategies or
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their activities or a focus. We want to keep it
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kind of tight with that too, much is too much,
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and you're talking about a slowly sustainable growth versus strategy
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dump or feedback dup or whatever the case might be
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on that is that accurate.
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That is and even when you give the feedback, let's
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say you do your first formal informal, I'll say, these
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are the things that I'm looking for. And when I
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come back and I visit you again, in between that
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cycle of me doing your second one, I'm looking for
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these things specifically, like I want you to make some
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improvement and focus on that. And so they know when
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they walk away, I'm targeting this specific area or these
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two things that I'm really focused on. And so when
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you go back again before you walk through, when we
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go back again, before you do your formal, they know, Okay,
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she's looking for these things or my team is looking
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for these things. And then you go back and you
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see it in action again. And so that is a
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point to give it to them to make some improvements,
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not to give them an observation in a formal. And
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then they see that one time, and then you don't
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go back again until until it's time for the second time.
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You won't know if they've implemented a t back that
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you've given them to help them grow professionally and build
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a capacity well.
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And if you just wait till the very end, that
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is your gotcha, right, I mean, if you're not doing
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all of this stuff ahead of time, and all it
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is is just the one time that I come in
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to do a formal observation, there's no way around that
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not being a gotcha. So what you're doing there is
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not only giving people the data and the feedback that
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they need to improve and grow, but it's also building
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this this length of time where we can see where
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that destination is going to be for that value with
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that evaluation. I mean, whether we like it or not,
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evaluation is part of the work in education, and it
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is part of making sure that everybody is growing at
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the rate we need to be growing and continuing to
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provide the best that we can for students. But it
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doesn't have to be such an anxiety ridden piece. It
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can be a conversation between adults that are with that
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same path.
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When I don't come in with my computer, that is
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when everybody's anxiety goes down because they know it's not formal.
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They know I'm just coming in there to see what
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they're doing I'm spending fifteen to twenty minutes in there,
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I'm leaving a sticky and I'm walking out, and so
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the anxiety is down. So I even share this with
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my team, like when you're walking in to give that
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feedback and it's not on a foremo cycle, leave your
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computer outside. That way, you bring the anxiety down and
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they know, Okay, this person, this administrators here to give
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me this feedback or help me grow, or to focus
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on one specific thing that they've already talked to me
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about in an evaluation.
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I'm going to age myself on this one. When I
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was teaching, it wasn't the computer that was the issue.
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It was the yellow legal pad that was the issue.
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That's when we knew that was it. Yeah, that was it.
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So well, this is a powerful shift. Indeed, I can't
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wait to see what we're gonna have in our lead segment.
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So listeners, hang on. We right back after this break
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as we wrap up with that lead segment on how
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to lead by deleting a common misconception. So I'm really
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looking forward to seeing what that is from our guest,
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Kanika Dorsey. Hang on, Listeners, will be right back after this.
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We are back for our final lead of control chef lead.
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This is where we stop talking about the why and
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start talking about the how.
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We want to delete the idea that a principle is
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only there for discipline. This is clearly a common misperception
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that the main office is just a hub for behavior management.
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But the truth is a great principle is an instructional
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leader first, Kanika. If you spend all your time reacting
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to discipline, you're not going to be able to do
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all this feedback valiative or not evaluative that you're talking about.
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So let's talk about how you've shifted that focus to
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be the instructional leader that your staff needs. How do
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you do this? Kanika?
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One, I love being instructional leader. That is the calling.
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I love it. It is the most important work.
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The continuous improvement plan is really drives what it is
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that we're focused on as instructional leaders. It tells you
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the goals that you need to focus on, the areas
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that you need to meet, and the improvements that you
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need to make. And as a leader of a building,
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I'm the person who I have to take a hold
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of that and lead that. So we think about what
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is the PD that needs to take place throughout the
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year based on a continuous improvement plan. What are the
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department meanings that need to take place based on a
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improvement improvement plan? And then it's really looking at the
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data before you start the school year to say, these
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are the areas that we really need to focus on
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as a school. How are we going to move this?
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And then it's going into the classrooms, doing walk throughs
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with your admin team, working with people from central office,
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going into DOO the walk throughs, making sure that you
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focus on those areas. And one of the things I
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really love the most is that when you train teach
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your leaders, they go in can do the walkthroughs for
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you as a team. They go in and the administrators
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are not with them. They're walking in, we have a
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walk through two that we use. They are giving that
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feedback to all the teachers after they are done. They're
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meeting that their department meetings and talking about what they
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need to focus on. And it is powerful because it
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comes from another teacher who is teaching the same instruction,
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possibly saying great level different but the same content. So
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when they receive that feedback from that teacher, it really
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helps them to make some improvements, and as the instructional leader,
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you have to build that into your school, that culture
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so they know that when your colleague comes in, they're
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coming in to give you some feedback to help you grow.
484
00:22:37.440 --> 00:22:39.559
So it is important to be the instructural leader to
485
00:22:39.559 --> 00:22:42.200
see that process through and then making sure that when
486
00:22:42.240 --> 00:22:44.559
you finish what you walkthrough is when you finish, going
487
00:22:44.559 --> 00:22:46.839
to give your feedback. When you're meeting with the teachers
488
00:22:46.839 --> 00:22:49.119
that they can see the trends. And you also have
489
00:22:49.160 --> 00:22:51.119
to focus on a positive I know sometimes in this
490
00:22:51.240 --> 00:22:54.079
java gets hard and there's a lot of negativity, and
491
00:22:54.119 --> 00:22:55.920
so you want to focus on that, but it is
492
00:22:55.960 --> 00:22:59.039
important to focus on those positive things and to talk
493
00:22:59.039 --> 00:23:01.480
about how you want to do that and then make improvements.
494
00:23:01.640 --> 00:23:04.400
And then we as a district, we have walked throughs
495
00:23:04.440 --> 00:23:06.920
excuse me, you call them instructional arounds that we do
496
00:23:07.000 --> 00:23:09.160
when we come back and we focus on one specific
497
00:23:09.200 --> 00:23:11.720
area that we want to make improvements in. But I
498
00:23:11.759 --> 00:23:14.359
am big on if it's not in this continuous improvement plan,
499
00:23:14.480 --> 00:23:15.039
we can't do it.
500
00:23:16.359 --> 00:23:18.720
H Well, I like, really what you focus there on
501
00:23:20.079 --> 00:23:23.039
the teachers, the more that we are building capacity amongst
502
00:23:23.039 --> 00:23:24.799
their staff, but the more that we are kind of
503
00:23:24.799 --> 00:23:30.960
pouring into the professionals of instruction, the teachers. The better
504
00:23:31.000 --> 00:23:33.599
the less we're making this about being personal, more about
505
00:23:33.640 --> 00:23:37.759
the student and their growth, and you're kind of taking
506
00:23:37.799 --> 00:23:41.680
away that personal parsion component of it that where emotions
507
00:23:41.759 --> 00:23:44.839
kind of get cloud to actually progress, I guess you
508
00:23:44.880 --> 00:23:47.599
would say. And now you're kind of like, hey, we're
509
00:23:47.599 --> 00:23:50.680
all in this together. It's not just three administrators that
510
00:23:50.720 --> 00:23:53.559
can give feedbackward an instructional coach that can guide. It's
511
00:23:53.599 --> 00:23:56.759
all of us working together. And I also want to emphasize,
512
00:23:56.839 --> 00:24:00.559
like you said, we always are focused on how how
513
00:24:00.599 --> 00:24:03.240
do we get better, which is important, don't get me wrong,
514
00:24:04.599 --> 00:24:07.480
But we can't forget that we get to celebrate the
515
00:24:07.519 --> 00:24:10.279
positives that we do because there is a ton of
516
00:24:10.319 --> 00:24:12.680
great things. I've been to your school a few times.
517
00:24:13.240 --> 00:24:16.400
There is a lot a lot to celebrate in that school,
518
00:24:16.400 --> 00:24:18.720
And if we go in there and just talking about growth, growth, growth,
519
00:24:19.000 --> 00:24:21.640
we're forgetting about all the growing that we've done, and
520
00:24:21.680 --> 00:24:23.720
we should be celebrating as well. So I really appreciate
521
00:24:24.160 --> 00:24:26.359
kind of like making that a point of emphasis with that.
522
00:24:26.720 --> 00:24:27.640
That's good point, Jim.
523
00:24:28.240 --> 00:24:29.799
One of the things we will do this year is
524
00:24:29.799 --> 00:24:32.400
we will have different teachers walk, so usually we have
525
00:24:32.480 --> 00:24:34.880
department chair as well. Now we have teachers sign ups
526
00:24:34.880 --> 00:24:36.559
so they can go do the walk and they will
527
00:24:36.599 --> 00:24:38.960
do one or two colleagues from different departments and they'll
528
00:24:39.000 --> 00:24:40.960
go ahead and walk and visit classrooms like we do.
529
00:24:41.319 --> 00:24:44.079
I'm just really trying to build everybody's capacity, not just
530
00:24:44.200 --> 00:24:47.200
our teacher leaders, not just our department chairs, not just administration,
531
00:24:47.480 --> 00:24:48.799
really for the entire staff.
532
00:24:50.480 --> 00:24:53.039
Now, there's a cost that goes along with that. I'm assuming, Kanik,
533
00:24:53.279 --> 00:24:54.559
for you to be able to pull that off or
534
00:24:54.720 --> 00:24:57.240
probably have to have some substitutes or covering other people's
535
00:24:57.319 --> 00:25:00.960
classes everything. But I'm kind of guessing I'll lead you.
536
00:25:01.079 --> 00:25:03.559
Here's a volleyball for it to spike down.
537
00:25:03.640 --> 00:25:04.359
Question right.
538
00:25:04.519 --> 00:25:06.640
I'm assuming that's worth the cost. Though.
539
00:25:06.839 --> 00:25:08.759
It is worth the cost because you see the end
540
00:25:08.759 --> 00:25:12.240
results and you really see teachers trying to grow and
541
00:25:12.279 --> 00:25:15.000
have a conversation. And Jim's been to my building and
542
00:25:15.039 --> 00:25:17.839
you know sometimes when we have our colts and we're there,
543
00:25:17.880 --> 00:25:20.160
they're really talking about, Okay, we got this feedback, like
544
00:25:20.200 --> 00:25:21.559
what am I going to do with it? How am
545
00:25:21.559 --> 00:25:23.599
I going to use it? And the administrators are in
546
00:25:23.680 --> 00:25:26.519
the celt that is part of their responsibility. But again
547
00:25:26.559 --> 00:25:28.599
it goes to leading the work as the instructional leader
548
00:25:28.640 --> 00:25:30.359
that is at the forefront of the work that we
549
00:25:30.440 --> 00:25:31.039
do in his role.
550
00:25:32.440 --> 00:25:34.480
Yeah, and everybody is a leader. I mean we talk
551
00:25:34.559 --> 00:25:38.000
about that everybody's a leader often, I mean Jay Cosis
552
00:25:38.000 --> 00:25:40.119
and associates. I know that that's one of the the
553
00:25:40.319 --> 00:25:43.640
big concepts is everybody is a leader, and we need
554
00:25:43.640 --> 00:25:47.039
to make sure that we really walk to talk with that.
555
00:25:47.119 --> 00:25:49.839
And what you're just describing is that you're leading with
556
00:25:49.960 --> 00:25:53.200
teachers and I think that's pretty impactful. Side by side,
557
00:25:53.440 --> 00:25:57.200
ye by side. That is a game changer for any
558
00:25:57.240 --> 00:26:00.559
administrator if you can get to that level. Hey, listeners,
559
00:26:00.599 --> 00:26:03.039
we're going to take a quick, one last break and
560
00:26:03.039 --> 00:26:05.359
then we're gonna come back and wrap things up kind
561
00:26:05.359 --> 00:26:07.799
of like check in with what's coming up in the future.
562
00:26:07.880 --> 00:26:10.279
And if you want to reach out to Kinika, because
563
00:26:11.000 --> 00:26:12.519
I gotta do a little plug.
564
00:26:12.279 --> 00:26:12.880
Here for her.
565
00:26:13.519 --> 00:26:17.319
She is just has an amazing background story when it
566
00:26:17.400 --> 00:26:19.720
comes to how she got to where the role that
567
00:26:19.759 --> 00:26:24.039
she's in, not just in her in their professional life
568
00:26:24.039 --> 00:26:27.559
and her personal life. Man, she is a warrior. And
569
00:26:27.799 --> 00:26:29.640
when we come back from break, We're going to touch
570
00:26:29.680 --> 00:26:32.039
base a little bit on that and get to know
571
00:26:32.119 --> 00:26:33.640
Kanika just a little bit more. And then how do
572
00:26:33.680 --> 00:26:35.160
you reach out to Kanika if you want to just
573
00:26:35.240 --> 00:26:36.799
kind of talk things through with her a little bit.
574
00:26:47.640 --> 00:26:50.440
All right, well, we have covered a lot of ground
575
00:26:50.519 --> 00:26:53.559
today with Kanika, Dorsey and Jim. Before we sign off
576
00:26:53.640 --> 00:26:56.119
and wrap this up today, can you give our listeners
577
00:26:56.119 --> 00:26:59.160
a quick recap of the of the goal that was
578
00:26:59.200 --> 00:27:00.079
shared today?
579
00:27:01.000 --> 00:27:05.079
Absolutely, but being able to recap that vast amount of
580
00:27:05.079 --> 00:27:07.960
information shit with it? I just don't know. But here
581
00:27:07.960 --> 00:27:10.640
we go. So in the control over control chef lead,
582
00:27:11.400 --> 00:27:13.200
you know what really stuck out to me is that
583
00:27:13.119 --> 00:27:16.279
the intent and the focus and the walking, the talk
584
00:27:16.440 --> 00:27:19.799
on the glow and the grow nothing to do with
585
00:27:19.839 --> 00:27:23.240
the gotcha glowing the grow, making everything very specific and
586
00:27:23.319 --> 00:27:26.200
intentional along the way, and no secrets with the staff,
587
00:27:27.200 --> 00:27:31.839
the shift portion frequency being in the classroom, non evaluative.
588
00:27:32.599 --> 00:27:34.640
And then we are focusing on one to two things
589
00:27:34.640 --> 00:27:37.200
for a staff member to grow. It's it's just one
590
00:27:37.200 --> 00:27:40.519
to two. It's not a plethora of pieces of advice
591
00:27:40.640 --> 00:27:43.640
or things to work on. And then finally the lead,
592
00:27:43.759 --> 00:27:46.000
the lead one really kind of stuck with me the most,
593
00:27:46.039 --> 00:27:49.519
and that is we're leading with teachers, not at them,
594
00:27:49.680 --> 00:27:52.839
not for them, but with them. The preposition clearly does
595
00:27:52.960 --> 00:27:56.000
matter within that. And I kind of teased a little
596
00:27:56.000 --> 00:27:59.759
bit going into this. More than anything else, I'm going
597
00:27:59.839 --> 00:28:04.319
to tell you, I have been amazed with when Kanika
598
00:28:04.359 --> 00:28:07.319
shared a little bit about her her her how she
599
00:28:07.440 --> 00:28:10.480
got there, her journey and so forth. And I think
600
00:28:10.480 --> 00:28:12.960
we were kind of like kind of feeling each other out,
601
00:28:13.079 --> 00:28:15.079
just kind of talking about where we're at is because
602
00:28:15.079 --> 00:28:17.359
we're both Scorpios and so there's a that plays out
603
00:28:17.400 --> 00:28:21.079
a little bit too. Kanika is grew up in New
604
00:28:21.160 --> 00:28:24.119
York and she didn't have flowers and petals at her
605
00:28:24.119 --> 00:28:26.079
feet all the time in the mornings, but she had
606
00:28:26.079 --> 00:28:30.880
a solid, wonderful family. And Kanika started this journey as
607
00:28:30.920 --> 00:28:34.119
a single parent, so she didn't have her administrative degree
608
00:28:34.160 --> 00:28:37.519
as a single parent, but she had great family support
609
00:28:37.960 --> 00:28:43.279
and she worked hard, traveled a lot, studied late, did
610
00:28:43.319 --> 00:28:45.079
what she needed to do as a parent, which I
611
00:28:45.079 --> 00:28:48.559
can never pat people in the back enough to do
612
00:28:48.680 --> 00:28:52.279
the best. The kid as a parent did all that
613
00:28:52.400 --> 00:28:55.519
and she is killing it at an amazing school with
614
00:28:55.640 --> 00:29:01.200
amazing district, and she did that as a single parent
615
00:29:01.319 --> 00:29:04.720
and so her baby girl sees her what a hell.
616
00:29:04.759 --> 00:29:06.559
I don't know if there's a better role model. I
617
00:29:06.559 --> 00:29:09.000
don't know if it is Kanikka. What did I leave
618
00:29:09.039 --> 00:29:10.960
out in that? Tell me a little bit.
619
00:29:11.839 --> 00:29:12.960
So you mentioned family.
620
00:29:13.000 --> 00:29:15.480
I grew up with my parents and two brothers and
621
00:29:15.519 --> 00:29:18.319
two sisters, and my family was everything. They really made
622
00:29:18.319 --> 00:29:21.240
sure they poured into us. I'll say that when my
623
00:29:21.279 --> 00:29:23.279
father passed at nineteen, it was a shock for all
624
00:29:23.319 --> 00:29:25.960
of us. And at that time, my mother said to me,
625
00:29:26.559 --> 00:29:28.799
if you go to school, I will take care of her.
626
00:29:29.279 --> 00:29:31.279
And I thought, okay, say that again, and she said,
627
00:29:31.319 --> 00:29:33.039
if you go to school, I will take care of her.
628
00:29:33.079 --> 00:29:35.200
And so that was my journey on. Let me start
629
00:29:35.240 --> 00:29:36.039
going to school.
630
00:29:36.240 --> 00:29:37.960
My mother says she would take care of my daughter
631
00:29:37.960 --> 00:29:40.279
for me so I could continue to pursue a degree.
632
00:29:40.559 --> 00:29:43.039
And so I started with my bachelor's degree.
633
00:29:43.160 --> 00:29:45.440
When at that time my mother came and I'll tell you,
634
00:29:45.519 --> 00:29:47.359
I lived in the Bronx and she would take my
635
00:29:47.480 --> 00:29:48.960
daughter to school for me and I would get on
636
00:29:48.960 --> 00:29:50.440
the bus and I would go to school until I
637
00:29:50.480 --> 00:29:52.559
was able to get a car. And she did that
638
00:29:52.599 --> 00:29:54.799
for me for about two to three years. Leaving from
639
00:29:54.839 --> 00:29:56.799
the Bronx to go to Yonkers to take my daughter
640
00:29:56.880 --> 00:29:59.279
to school. And then I moved to Maryland and I
641
00:29:59.319 --> 00:30:03.680
was pursuing degree, my master's and a coaching certificate. And
642
00:30:03.720 --> 00:30:05.920
at the job I had, I did a lot of traveling,
643
00:30:05.960 --> 00:30:07.920
and so I will call my mom and I would say,
644
00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:09.319
I need you to come here for a week for me.
645
00:30:09.359 --> 00:30:09.839
Can you come?
646
00:30:09.880 --> 00:30:11.839
And she would get on that train and she would
647
00:30:11.839 --> 00:30:13.440
come and she would stay with my daughter so that
648
00:30:13.440 --> 00:30:16.240
way I could travel for my job. My family is
649
00:30:16.359 --> 00:30:18.599
very loving, supportive and caring, and I really don't talk
650
00:30:18.640 --> 00:30:21.039
about the journey that I took to be a single mother.
651
00:30:21.519 --> 00:30:23.759
I wouldn't trade it in with the family that I
652
00:30:23.880 --> 00:30:25.960
had because it helped me to get to this point,
653
00:30:26.119 --> 00:30:28.599
between my brothers and sisters, even my nieces and my
654
00:30:28.680 --> 00:30:31.880
nephew who helped me raise my daughter. Then I met
655
00:30:31.880 --> 00:30:33.839
a good friend along the way here and she said,
656
00:30:34.240 --> 00:30:36.000
I need you to stop taking your daughter with you
657
00:30:36.039 --> 00:30:37.839
to school three times a week. So before there was
658
00:30:37.880 --> 00:30:40.920
social media and you saw these professors with the daughters
659
00:30:41.000 --> 00:30:43.599
or the sons on their shoulder in the classroom, that
660
00:30:43.680 --> 00:30:46.039
was me. My daughter went to school with me until
661
00:30:46.319 --> 00:30:48.440
I decided to work on my third degree, and she said,
662
00:30:48.440 --> 00:30:49.960
I'm not going with you anymore, and I need you
663
00:30:50.000 --> 00:30:52.200
to stop for a few But I remember taking other
664
00:30:52.240 --> 00:30:54.119
school for me, and there was only one professor who
665
00:30:54.160 --> 00:30:56.440
said the topics in here are going to be too
666
00:30:56.519 --> 00:30:57.000
much for her.
667
00:30:57.079 --> 00:30:58.480
She cannot come to this class.
668
00:30:58.720 --> 00:31:01.599
And then I left her with someone who would actually
669
00:31:01.720 --> 00:31:03.720
get her ready. She stayed with her for a while
670
00:31:03.720 --> 00:31:05.480
and then would bring her to school for me. And
671
00:31:05.559 --> 00:31:08.000
so that journey was something that along the way that
672
00:31:08.720 --> 00:31:11.160
pushed me and motivated me. And one of the things
673
00:31:11.160 --> 00:31:14.039
that I don't have the story of the teacher who
674
00:31:14.119 --> 00:31:16.880
said I had a story of a teacher who influenced
675
00:31:16.880 --> 00:31:17.559
me to do this job.
676
00:31:17.599 --> 00:31:18.480
I don't have that story.
677
00:31:18.839 --> 00:31:20.799
My story is that when I was tending, teacher told
678
00:31:20.839 --> 00:31:23.039
me I will never graduate high school or college. And
679
00:31:23.079 --> 00:31:25.160
that is my push. That is the thing that continued
680
00:31:25.200 --> 00:31:27.319
to motivate me. That is the thing that said I
681
00:31:27.319 --> 00:31:29.680
will give one hundred and ten percent to these children
682
00:31:29.839 --> 00:31:32.000
in any role, in any capacity that I am in.
683
00:31:32.279 --> 00:31:33.880
And that is why I give with my heart, like
684
00:31:33.920 --> 00:31:35.799
I want these children to know they have somebody who
685
00:31:35.880 --> 00:31:37.920
cares for them. Because I don't know what that was like,
686
00:31:37.960 --> 00:31:39.440
I can't tell you I can go back and remember
687
00:31:39.480 --> 00:31:42.319
a teacher who influenced me through my K through twelve education.
688
00:31:42.640 --> 00:31:44.400
I don't have one of those, but I want to
689
00:31:44.400 --> 00:31:46.480
make sure that when I became a teacher and I've
690
00:31:46.480 --> 00:31:48.480
done a leader, that these students can go back and
691
00:31:48.519 --> 00:31:50.799
remember we had somebody who cared about me. So that
692
00:31:50.920 --> 00:31:53.759
is my journey. My daughter now has two grandchildren, so
693
00:31:53.759 --> 00:31:55.640
I'm a grandmother. They tell me I don't look like one.
694
00:31:55.720 --> 00:31:58.319
I'll take it, but I continue to be there and
695
00:31:58.359 --> 00:32:01.240
support her and everybody even in the building, they know
696
00:32:01.440 --> 00:32:03.839
like my family comes first. I love my family, and
697
00:32:03.880 --> 00:32:05.559
I encourage just to have to do that, like be
698
00:32:05.640 --> 00:32:07.519
there for your family, don't miss out on those moments,
699
00:32:07.559 --> 00:32:09.359
because I had a lot of time where I missed
700
00:32:09.359 --> 00:32:11.279
out on some moments that I wish I could go back.
701
00:32:11.440 --> 00:32:13.359
And I'm thankful for my mother being there because she
702
00:32:13.480 --> 00:32:15.720
showed up for me time and time again, like she
703
00:32:15.839 --> 00:32:17.839
never stopped showing up for me. And so I just
704
00:32:17.920 --> 00:32:19.480
had the love and support of my family. So I
705
00:32:19.480 --> 00:32:20.720
can do what I do and be in this role
706
00:32:20.799 --> 00:32:22.039
right now, and I'm thankful.
707
00:32:23.279 --> 00:32:25.960
Well, I just sit there and think about everybody has
708
00:32:26.000 --> 00:32:28.559
a different journey when it comes to leadership. We need
709
00:32:28.599 --> 00:32:31.240
to keep people in the game. So if you're a
710
00:32:31.240 --> 00:32:36.440
single parent out there, for if you're female administrator, this
711
00:32:36.559 --> 00:32:38.759
is a great person to reach out to. Kinika's got
712
00:32:38.799 --> 00:32:42.119
your back and when she talks about every kid wants you,
713
00:32:42.319 --> 00:32:44.279
just wants everybody know that there's at least one person
714
00:32:44.319 --> 00:32:46.519
in the school that cares about you. It's actually true.
715
00:32:46.519 --> 00:32:52.079
I've seen the interactions. I've seen zero children be anything
716
00:32:52.079 --> 00:32:55.200
but respectful to kinekan out. There's a maybe it has
717
00:32:55.279 --> 00:32:57.720
always been the case, but every single time I'm there
718
00:32:58.000 --> 00:33:02.680
and every interaction I see zero, they always are respectful
719
00:33:02.720 --> 00:33:04.759
to you. And you know how to speak with them.
720
00:33:04.759 --> 00:33:07.880
You know their tone, you know the language, you know
721
00:33:07.960 --> 00:33:11.200
them as humans first, which I think is just absolutely,
722
00:33:11.799 --> 00:33:15.319
absolutely amazing. And I know I'm speaking for Adam on this.
723
00:33:15.880 --> 00:33:18.920
I really do appreciate you blessing us by being here
724
00:33:18.960 --> 00:33:21.720
at a control lead, not just for the knowledge you're dropping,
725
00:33:21.720 --> 00:33:24.240
but just because the human you are, the role model
726
00:33:24.279 --> 00:33:28.920
you are for female administrators, and I just I just
727
00:33:28.960 --> 00:33:30.200
can't thank you enough for that.
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00:33:30.559 --> 00:33:32.759
Keaninka, How do people get in touch with you? How
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00:33:32.799 --> 00:33:34.640
if they want to reach out and find out more
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00:33:34.640 --> 00:33:37.480
about your story and partner with you and just get
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00:33:37.519 --> 00:33:40.359
even more of this amazing amount of knowledge you have.
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00:33:40.680 --> 00:33:41.559
How do they get in touch?
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00:33:41.920 --> 00:33:43.759
They can reach out to me on Instagram. So first
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00:33:43.839 --> 00:33:45.039
let me say I have to use it, but I
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00:33:45.079 --> 00:33:48.920
promise how we'll respond back to you. Dandal is back
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00:33:49.000 --> 00:33:51.640
Kinika Dorsey k A n I k A d O
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00:33:51.759 --> 00:33:53.720
R s eu y. So you can reach out to
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00:33:53.839 --> 00:33:54.720
me on Instagram.
739
00:33:55.359 --> 00:33:57.640
That's awesome. Well, I'll tell you what, this has been
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00:33:57.680 --> 00:33:59.920
an amazing show today. It's really great to meet you
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00:34:00.240 --> 00:34:03.039
and hear your story, and I can just tell that
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00:34:03.079 --> 00:34:05.279
there's a lot more to that story and how it's
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00:34:05.519 --> 00:34:07.359
how it's got you to the place that you're at
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00:34:07.359 --> 00:34:09.880
and the amazing amount of success you've had. So this
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00:34:09.960 --> 00:34:12.400
is this has been great. Thank you for joining us today.
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00:34:12.400 --> 00:34:14.119
I really really really appreciate it.
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00:34:14.760 --> 00:34:16.400
Thanks to both of you for having me here.
748
00:34:17.239 --> 00:34:22.320
Adam March is here. You talked about March madness. Yep,
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00:34:22.559 --> 00:34:25.559
it is wonderful. I can't wait for this. It's going
750
00:34:25.639 --> 00:34:28.039
to be I think it's going to be the craziest
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00:34:28.079 --> 00:34:32.119
bracket of Evolve and we definitely can recap that in April.
752
00:34:32.519 --> 00:34:34.440
Tell us tell our audience who do we have coming
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00:34:34.440 --> 00:34:34.960
in April.
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00:34:35.719 --> 00:34:39.719
Well, in April, we've got doctor Chad Lang. Chad is
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00:34:39.880 --> 00:34:42.480
a friend of mine that I've known for a little
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00:34:42.480 --> 00:34:44.400
while now, and he does a lot of really really
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00:34:44.440 --> 00:34:48.880
great work with recalibrated education services. In fact, he just
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00:34:49.039 --> 00:34:51.039
released an article enough he had a chance to read
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00:34:51.079 --> 00:34:54.239
that yet, Jim, but it was a fascinating article where
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00:34:54.239 --> 00:34:58.679
he's comparing tightening of the strike zone in Major League
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00:34:58.679 --> 00:35:02.239
Baseball to what would happen if we tighten our parameters
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00:35:02.280 --> 00:35:04.800
around standards reference grading and the fact that you actually
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00:35:04.880 --> 00:35:08.519
become more accurate by tightening that zone. So it's pretty
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00:35:08.519 --> 00:35:11.760
impressive stuff. And Chad's got some really a wealth of
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00:35:11.800 --> 00:35:13.679
knowledge as well that he's going to share with us
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00:35:13.719 --> 00:35:16.360
coming in April, so I'm really looking forward to that.
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00:35:16.360 --> 00:35:18.239
That's great, that's great. I appreciate it.
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00:35:18.639 --> 00:35:21.599
Well, it has been a pleasure. Thank you again, Kanika
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00:35:21.639 --> 00:35:23.719
for joining us, Thank you listeners for joining us on
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00:35:23.800 --> 00:35:27.000
again on Control Shift Lead. For Jim Wichman and our
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00:35:27.039 --> 00:35:30.039
guest Kanika Dorsey, I'm Adam Bush. Go out there and
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00:35:30.079 --> 00:35:33.719
control shift and lead your school this month. Take care, everybody.
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00:35:37.840 --> 00:35:41.239
Thanks for hanging out with us today on Control Shift Lead.
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00:35:41.800 --> 00:35:44.960
If you enjoyed the show, There's plenty more to discover
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00:35:45.039 --> 00:35:48.239
in the show notes, including ways to connect with Jim
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00:35:48.360 --> 00:35:53.239
and Adam, or even launch your own educational podcast. While
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00:35:53.239 --> 00:35:56.239
you're there, take a look at the other amazing shows
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00:35:56.280 --> 00:36:00.400
on the forward Ed network. They're doing incredible work sharing
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00:36:00.440 --> 00:36:05.719
the stories of educators everywhere. We'll see you next month. Now,
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00:36:05.760 --> 00:36:09.320
go out and control shift and lead your school.